My dad and I went here there and everywhere looking for a can of Krylon Dove Gray paint (no luck) and i found these at a local hardware store and bought them all (9) for a dollar each. Oddly enough they have 400W Sylvania MH lamps in OLD looking sleeve, though i passed on them since i don't have a fixture for them. I'll be testing them tonight on my grandpa's F90T17 fixture. How old are these?
I'll have to do some convincing... He said he hates the flickering but when he realizes it's going to cost more than a few bucks to upgrade the lights he all of a sudden declines. It'll give me a summer project though at the very least. I'll be replacing the light in the bathroom if it is preheat since i don't want it to end up being gutted. I'll hang a beautiful F32T8 stip light (or whatever the cheapest light he can find to replace it is lol).
Retrofitting striplights is pretty easy but you'll probably need a nut driver to easily change the ballasts out. I changed out the lights in my kitchen to T8 since the old F40 ballasts were LPF and ran the lamps at half power and tended to eat lamps (well it could be because they were Altos ).
I think the reason why he hasn't done it because of the cost. He uses altos too becuase they're the cheapest lamps he can find. He can't sell the shop because the spraybooth has strip lights instead of explosion-proof lights. He didn't want to spend $800 a fixture.
That's what he told me. This was back in the late 70s-mid 80s. He needed a quote for two lamp F96T12/HO explosion-proof fixtures and it was nearly $800 per fixture with shipping included (those things probably weighed a lot). So he settled for 2 lamp F96T12 slimline strip lights lol. Very typical of my grandpa. He said before he retires (knowing him he'll have to be seriously ill to not work) he'll disassemble the spray booth room and turn it back into the garage it used to be so he can sell it. When it bought it, it was simply just a garage to repair cars like the "breeze room" as he calls the main part of the garage, as it's sometimes windy in there becuase of the heater or if the vents are opened.
Well, I guess you could give him the "Restore Upgrade" There was a time when I could retrofit your typical two lamp strip to F32 for less than ten bucks worth of materials from Restore.
Oh I forgot to mention this but if you want cheap and have a good number of fixtures and have a lot of time sometimes it might be worth it to scrounge up ballasts for eBay or CL.
Hmm I'll have to see if i can find him ballasts on e-bay... Can i use the same sockets? If i can convince him it'll be a long, slow project instead of a do-it-in-a-day kind of project. How much more $$$ are the 8ft slimline T8 lamps than T12s?
is he using the 60w or 75w lamps? I would defiantly put 75w in with plastic sleeves and make sure rectifying lamps are replaced asap...the bulb on the blue wire side will fry the ballast if that occurs for too long...the red (lead lamp) will just loose vacuum and both lamps go out without damage
I don't know. All i do know is that he's using 8ft T12 slimlines. He said he bought the place and most of the fixtures were already in it. He made a deal with a friend that he would fix his friend's car if the friend put a drop ceiling in his office. The only problem was that he needed more light than just a couple of table and floor lamps so he had another friend of his (he's a handyman in carpentry and the electrical field) put up some four lamp F40T12 troffers that he bought at home depot. Those are the newest lights in the shop. BTW, how long can rapid start ballasts last with dead lamps? I think a couple of the troffers have had dead lamps for quite some time. He has a few of those slimlines with no lamps in them at all, is that a problem?
Not a problem when no Lamps are installed with slimline. ...with rapid start dead /removed lamps don't kill ballasts
however some instant start electronic ballasts can be killed with all lamps dead /removed for too long
All of his lights have magnetic ballasts. Hopefully sometime he and i can find some common time to fix his lampless lights. He removes dead lamps and leaves them lampless until he gets a good deal for the lamps. He could use additional fixtures though. I told him he should order a few MH lowbays. Seriously though, if he gets maybe 6-8 lowbays he'll have a lotmore light, he'll have fewer lights to maintain, they'll work better in the cold, and it'll be overall cheaper for him than replaceing/reballasting about 15-20 fluoros. Plus since they're on virtually all day, PSMH would probably be a better option. I just have to see if his ceiling/roof is tall enough and make sure the unit cost doesn't scare him away.
If you do decide to use HID, I would either keep one or two of the fluorescent striplights installed or order them with the quartz restrike feature, you don't want to be caught in total darkness after a power blip.
Yeah. Probably keep a row on each end. I was thinking of wiring the fluorescent lights up to a button PC so when the HID lamps warm up, they'll shut off the fluorescents and if the lights go out on accident or a quick power outage, the fluorescents will come back on until the HIDs restrike. I'll be truely suprised if he says yes to HID though so if anything T8 slimlines will probably be the outcome. Do you think 150W PSMH canopy lights are a good replacement for tu-lamp F96T12 reflector fixtures (plus added light)? I'm trying to figure out how many fixtures he'd need but it's been awhile since i've been to his shop. I'd guess probably two rows of three would be plenty of light. That's $800 once shipping is factored in though for 6 of them so if he says "okay" to PSMH I'll be very suprised.
In the mean time, he still has the reflector to my OV-10. I gave it to him almost a year ago to buff out and it hasn't happened yet. He said he also has a huge box of fluorescent starters (i don't know why; he only has one preheater lol) but he can't seem to find it. When i can go to the shop again, he said if i can find it, the box is mine!
Hmm, if you use canopy lights just make sure they won't overheat indoors, I was thinking some kind of acrylic lensed low-bay light. I think the light should be bright enough though. Oh and since this is a garage you might consider putting some striplights over a work area like a work bench and just wire them to a separate switch in additon to the restike ones.
The T8 route will probably be cheaper than HID though since you can keep the existing fixtures and wiring and just change out the ballasts and lamps.
It's one of those big garages that car reapair shops have. There's no workbench in that room that i know of... I've seen canopy lights used indoors before. I think lowbay and high bays are too tall for the ceiling/roof.
I'll probably end up retrofitting them since it will be cheaper like you said. Probably a few lights at a time so he's not spending a large amount all at once. Extra lights should ideally be added though since there are dark areas of his workshop/garage/shop. The new fixtures to fill in the dark spots will probably be F32T8 strip lights since new 8ft T8s are simply too expensive. Thankfully the ballasts aren't though.
He has a couple of cheapo 4ft plastic shoplites that he has in a couple of spots. I think their cords are cut and they're hardwired to the supply feed of the closest 8ft reflector strip light. I'll make sure those are taken down though since it's likely not an up-to-code installation.
Yeah, that's definitely not code complaint, I would probably just replace them with a proper fluorescent striplight and hardwire it. I know some people retrofit 8' T12 to 4' T8 by installing some extra sockets but those retrofits always looked tacky to me.
Interestingly looking of F96T8 ballasts today, I came across this magnetic ballast for them. It's for the old style F96T8 introduced in the '40s but I heard they run the modern T8s just fine.
I actually wanted to convert them to F32T8 but i don't want to have to make modifications to the fixtures. Plus he'd end up haveing twice as many lamps to maintain. I know that'd drive me nuts.
BTW, i found the suprise i've been looking for for a long time! F90T17 ballasts for less than these! Now if only the $20 one had free shipping.
Also, is operating a 2X F90T17 fixture with one of the lamps and starters removed going to harm the ballast? My grandpa has been doing it to his T17 for a decade now and i want to make sure he's not ruining the balalst.
only magnetic ballasts that are harmed by missing/dead lamps.are CWA HID ballasts, if anything the preheat ballast is going to run half as cool as with 2 lamps
But I wonder what happens when the lead side has a missing lamp since those have a similar design to a CWA, IIRC the lag side has a similar design as a HX HID ballast.
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Oh I forgot to mention this but if you want cheap and have a good number of fixtures and have a lot of time sometimes it might be worth it to scrounge up ballasts for eBay or CL.
however some instant start electronic ballasts can be killed with all lamps dead /removed for too long
In the mean time, he still has the reflector to my OV-10.
The T8 route will probably be cheaper than HID though since you can keep the existing fixtures and wiring and just change out the ballasts and lamps.
I'll probably end up retrofitting them since it will be cheaper like you said. Probably a few lights at a time so he's not spending a large amount all at once. Extra lights should ideally be added though since there are dark areas of his workshop/garage/shop. The new fixtures to fill in the dark spots will probably be F32T8 strip lights since new 8ft T8s are simply too expensive. Thankfully the ballasts aren't though.
He has a couple of cheapo 4ft plastic shoplites that he has in a couple of spots. I think their cords are cut and they're hardwired to the supply feed of the closest 8ft reflector strip light. I'll make sure those are taken down though since it's likely not an up-to-code installation.
Interestingly looking of F96T8 ballasts today, I came across this magnetic ballast for them. It's for the old style F96T8 introduced in the '40s but I heard they run the modern T8s just fine.
BTW, i found the suprise i've been looking for for a long time! F90T17 ballasts for less than these! Now if only the $20 one had free shipping.
Also, is operating a 2X F90T17 fixture with one of the lamps and starters removed going to harm the ballast? My grandpa has been doing it to his T17 for a decade now and i want to make sure he's not ruining the balalst.