Very empty inside there, as this was designed for a 250W MV remote ballast. Note the fuse. Without that, it would be pretty lonely in there, as there are no PC socket wires either.
I wonder if the fuse block was standard in the M-250R based Crimefighters, all the ones I've seen have the same block. Although it would be weird fusing a ballast output since this a remote ballasted fixture.
I removed mine since the fuse blew and I wasn't able to find a proper sized fuse for it. Another thing I noticed is that none seem to have PC sockets.
Maybe. I wondered the same thing you did: fuse makes no sense in this instance, unless it was originally intended as an incandescent. The foil label says MERCURY LUMINAIRE but they all did until the early 70s when they just went to LUMINAIRE so they could use the same label template for HPS too. Darren's crimefighter had a PC socket (even on the original beat-up housing when it was on the building) so they were made, but yeah,much less common. Chicago's lights are mostly group-controlled I think.
BTW, have you tried a 12" signal lens in your crimefighter? I might try it and see how it looks lol.
Maybe, I guess GE might have had the same model for remote ballast/incandescent since they're basically the same thing. I guess GE might have used the same foil tag but I wonder what wattage and ballast type they put on it. I also realized I put the tag on mine in the wrong place lol.
As for Darren's I wonder if that PC was a user modification, I remember it looking like someone drilled and tapped a hole in the housing and the PC socket design looked different than a OEM GE one.
Oh wow, I checked and a 12" signal lens is a perfect fit for the crimefighter. Only problem is there's no room for the lamp.
No your tag is fine. They didn't have a specific spot they put it in. My regular M-250R has it over near the reflector. They basically just slapped it anywhere, but AFAIK it was always on that side of the fixture.
You're right. I just checked Darren's pics and the original housing's PC was aftermarket. Maybe these never had PCs at all then! I think cobraheads look better with the PC socket but I'm not going to mod this. If anything, I'll just wire in a remote PC.
Ahh, that's good to know, mine is on the same side but near the reflector. I'll probably have to restick it anyways since the double sided tape I used didn't stick that well.
That's my guess either since they don't even have the KO in the top housing where a PC socket should be. Personally, I wouldn't drill into the housing just to install a PC, instead I would opt for a remote PC like you. Interestingly this Crimfighter from my old pics has a PC although it might be another aftermarket one.
Yeah the M-400 and M-250R used separate castings for PC and non-PC. It was nice since if you ordered no PC, the top of the fixture was smooth and nicer looking. But it was also bad since you can't add the PC socket if you wanted to (without ruining the originality of the fixture). Westinghouse fixtures were the same way; no provision for the PC on the PC-less ones. Now everyone has the PC provision, but Cooper keeps it very low profile, so their PC-less fixtures still look good.
Interesting info, I wonder if the demand for PC less fixtures back then was big enough so them to have separate castings. Now I wonder if a crime fighter with PC casting existed.
I've managed to find a replacement fuse for mine over the weekend so I reinstalled the fuse block and wired it in. It uses a Type CC fuse BTW. Bussmann still makes the exact same block and fuses.
I'm thinking back then it was probably an appearance thing. The manufacturers wanted a nice clean look to the fixtures. Or maybe they didn't realize they could just put a cap in to fill the hole lol. The newer GEs have the casting solid if no PC socket is ordered (they just don't cut the hole out of the casting, but the hump is still there) but on the older pre-tool-free PC socket lights, there was always a gaping hole, with a clear plastic disc that fit in to fill the hole. The same style cap they used with the Astrodome PCs I think. Only the Powr/Door and Powr/Bracket lights were available in Astrodome AFAIK. Even after the tool-free sockets came about some of the GE lights used snap-in caps to cover the PC socket, though others had the hole not drilled out. The M-400A2s I rescued from the parking lot had snap-in black caps. So when I added the PC socket, I simply had to pop the caps off and the PC sockets fit right in, as the hole was already there for me in the casting.
IMO they should just make all the cobraheads come with PC sockets and just have people use shorting caps instead. RIDOT already does that for the most part. Most of the M-400 FCOs they've installed have PC sockets with shorting caps. The spot replacements typically don't have PC sockets though, so spot replacements are generally pretty obvious (replacement poles are too, since they rarely match up the poles. A lot of times they replace a short pole with a short arm with a short pole and a long arm, which I actually prefer the look of, but the mismatch looks stupid. Sometimes I see the tall poles with long arms replaced with a tall pole and a short arm, which looks really goofy. The pole height always matches and a good amount of the time the arm length matches but the bend radius on the davit doesn't. I prefer the gradual curve davits. I don't like the sharp-bend davit poles, especially the long-armed ones. With the short arm I really don't care much.
Ahh, I guess that makes sense then. They probably realized later on that having the same housing with a cap for the no PC lights was cheaper lol. Interesting that they used a plastic cap to fill in the hole, I always thought the non PC models had a cast knockout where the PC is socket is supposed to be and installing a PC socket will permanently alter the housing.
Yeah, I think half of the group swtiched lights here have PC sockets with a shorting cap. Usually the original lights don't have PC sockets but the spot replacements have shorting caps. MTO generally matches the pole and arm length unless if it's a truss style arm which they use a tapered elliptical arm as a replacement instead. I supposed the truss style arms cost most even though it's still a catalogued arm type and is sometimes installed.
Toronto uses davit poles for their freeways and they don't really match the arm length. There's a mix of various length davits along the Gardiner Expressway lol.
Yep GE used the plastic caps on all the M-400As, M-400s, M-250As, and M-250R1s without PC sockets. The casting was actually made with the hole (I don't think it was carved out at all, since it's rounded off and smooth too). And the later R2 models sometimes had the snap-in caps and sometimes were solid. the R2/A2 caps were black, so when the light is installed, it looks like it's got a PC socket with no PC in it (that's how I thought my M-400A2s were in service) but it's just a cap lol. The older lights (pre-R2/A2 models) used clear caps (that turned yellow over time) and were just like the Astrodome units used.
I'm not sure on Westinghouse or AE though. I think Westinghouse might have always used separate castings since I've never seen a westy with the hub for a PC socket not have a PC socket. Cooper always just leaves the casting closed up though, so if you added a PC socket it would indeed have to remain that way, though it would be very simple to cut a piece of sheet metal into a circle and hold it in using the screws that were intended for the PC socket. (maybe use some caulking or weatherstripping to act as a gasket). For AE, in the 70s and early 80s I think they had the hole cut out and actually just glued a piece of sheet metal in to fill the hole! George Crawford on here has a Model 25 that had the metal disk. Apparently it wasn't glued in all that well either, so I'm sure many of the PC-less ITTs ended up having said disk fall off and leave the gaping hole in the top of the fixture.
Ahh, interesting that the ITTs used glue to hold the PC socket cap in. I would personally prefer screws just becuase glue tends to loosen up like you said over the years. I have some big metal washers that I can use to cover up the PC socket hold in any of my lights should I wish to convert them to no PC socket. I use them for covering up the unused holes in my traffic lights which is just around the same size as a PC socket hole lol.
I just use shorting caps or dayburning PCs. I have over half a dozen dayburner PCs and another half dozen real shorting caps or dayburner PCs I gutted into shorting caps lol.
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I removed mine since the fuse blew and I wasn't able to find a proper sized fuse for it. Another thing I noticed is that none seem to have PC sockets.
BTW, have you tried a 12" signal lens in your crimefighter? I might try it and see how it looks lol.
As for Darren's I wonder if that PC was a user modification, I remember it looking like someone drilled and tapped a hole in the housing and the PC socket design looked different than a OEM GE one.
Oh wow, I checked and a 12" signal lens is a perfect fit for the crimefighter. Only problem is there's no room for the lamp.
You're right. I just checked Darren's pics and the original housing's PC was aftermarket. Maybe these never had PCs at all then! I think cobraheads look better with the PC socket but I'm not going to mod this. If anything, I'll just wire in a remote PC.
That's my guess either since they don't even have the KO in the top housing where a PC socket should be. Personally, I wouldn't drill into the housing just to install a PC, instead I would opt for a remote PC like you. Interestingly this Crimfighter from my old pics has a PC although it might be another aftermarket one.
I've managed to find a replacement fuse for mine over the weekend so I reinstalled the fuse block and wired it in. It uses a Type CC fuse BTW. Bussmann still makes the exact same block and fuses.
IMO they should just make all the cobraheads come with PC sockets and just have people use shorting caps instead. RIDOT already does that for the most part. Most of the M-400 FCOs they've installed have PC sockets with shorting caps. The spot replacements typically don't have PC sockets though, so spot replacements are generally pretty obvious (replacement poles are too, since they rarely match up the poles. A lot of times they replace a short pole with a short arm with a short pole and a long arm, which I actually prefer the look of, but the mismatch looks stupid. Sometimes I see the tall poles with long arms replaced with a tall pole and a short arm, which looks really goofy. The pole height always matches and a good amount of the time the arm length matches but the bend radius on the davit doesn't. I prefer the gradual curve davits. I don't like the sharp-bend davit poles, especially the long-armed ones. With the short arm I really don't care much.
Yeah, I think half of the group swtiched lights here have PC sockets with a shorting cap. Usually the original lights don't have PC sockets but the spot replacements have shorting caps. MTO generally matches the pole and arm length unless if it's a truss style arm which they use a tapered elliptical arm as a replacement instead. I supposed the truss style arms cost most even though it's still a catalogued arm type and is sometimes installed.
Toronto uses davit poles for their freeways and they don't really match the arm length. There's a mix of various length davits along the Gardiner Expressway lol.
I'm not sure on Westinghouse or AE though. I think Westinghouse might have always used separate castings since I've never seen a westy with the hub for a PC socket not have a PC socket. Cooper always just leaves the casting closed up though, so if you added a PC socket it would indeed have to remain that way, though it would be very simple to cut a piece of sheet metal into a circle and hold it in using the screws that were intended for the PC socket. (maybe use some caulking or weatherstripping to act as a gasket). For AE, in the 70s and early 80s I think they had the hole cut out and actually just glued a piece of sheet metal in to fill the hole!