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Exit Sign Lit Without "EXIT" Stencils I was hopeing this was PL since I've always wanted a PL exit sign but oh well. If i were to get a PL exit sign i would want it ti be a side mount double-sided one with red letters and without battery back-up since that's how the ones in my elementary school were (well they still are). I always enjoyed looking at an EOL lamp and listenign to that high pitch "BZZZZZ" the exit sign gave off. The janitors typically waited until both lamps were dead before relamping them. Those exit signs were one of my favorite things to look at when i was in elementary school (i wasn't actually into lighting; i was into signs but i think exit signs were the bridge that made me interested in lighting as well). Of course now i look back and think how lucky i was to be in a school with 100% T12 lamps, PL lamps, and probe MH. Unfortunatly the cafeteria and library lights were replaced with T8s becuase the lights were falling apart. Keywords: Misc_Fixtures

Exit Sign Lit Without "EXIT" Stencils

I was hopeing this was PL since I've always wanted a PL exit sign but oh well. If i were to get a PL exit sign i would want it ti be a side mount double-sided one with red letters and without battery back-up since that's how the ones in my elementary school were (well they still are). I always enjoyed looking at an EOL lamp and listenign to that high pitch "BZZZZZ" the exit sign gave off. The janitors typically waited until both lamps were dead before relamping them. Those exit signs were one of my favorite things to look at when i was in elementary school (i wasn't actually into lighting; i was into signs but i think exit signs were the bridge that made me interested in lighting as well). Of course now i look back and think how lucky i was to be in a school with 100% T12 lamps, PL lamps, and probe MH. Unfortunatly the cafeteria and library lights were replaced with T8s becuase the lights were falling apart.

gol10152012_018.JPG gol81512_001.JPG gol81512_002.JPG gol81512_003.JPG gol81512_004.JPG
File information
Filename:gol81512_002.JPG
Album name:Mike / My Collection
Keywords:Misc_Fixtures
Filesize:418 KiB
Date added:Aug 15, 2012
Dimensions:2048 x 1536 pixels
Displayed:73 times
Color Space:sRGB
DateTime Original:2009:03:26 19:31:20
Exposure Bias:0 EV
Exposure Mode:0
Exposure Time:1/29296 sec
FNumber:f/2.8
Flash:No Flash
Focal length:28.8125 mm
Light Source:Unknown: 0
Make:Vivicam
Model:V5024
URL:http://www.galleryoflights.org/mb/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=12669
Favorites:Add to Favorites

Comment 5 to 24 of 24
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A_lights   [Aug 17, 2012 at 03:56 AM]
sometimes the ballasts in the U shaped lamp fixtures are bad. ..replaced an advance and valmont one, and they are not working with clean F34 or F40 reliably they were also grounded with metal clips. ...I've found when these fixtures are used with 34w lamps since they are small the ballast gets quite toasty and the starting cap was bad on one and it only starts a linear F34 or F40, just got another call saying that the other fixture I dint retrofit isn't working reliably...takes a few mins to start. ...new F40 lamps in it too
streetlight98   [Aug 17, 2012 at 02:11 PM]
Hmm. My great-aunt's 2X F40T12 strip (it's magnetic RS from probably the 70s) used to have two 35W GE wattmiser lamps in it but both strobed and wouldn't start unless the switch was flicked a few times. The single lamp strip wouldn't come close to starting the lamps (it still has a 35W GE lamp with a red etch and a giant 35 on it). I put a 70s-ish looking sylvania grow light (glows a deep purple color) in the two-lamp fixture and switched the other two lamps and all three fixtures work now. I threw out one of the three 35W lamps though because i wasn't aware how vintage they were. The 35 watters are probably the original lamps too. Smile I looked all around the house for NOS 35W lamps and found nothing but the sylvania grow lamp (must've been bought back in the 70s-80s by mistake) with the 70's era slanted + shaped etch. I found a stack of F20T12 blackenders too though I'll have to check the manufacturer. They were in sleeves but IIRC, the sleeves were all white. Could they be Duro-Test?
GullWhiz   [Aug 17, 2012 at 03:35 PM]
Try fixing the grounding connection and clean fixture it may help making it work...also the tubes need to be close to the grounded body.....
streetlight98   [Aug 17, 2012 at 03:45 PM]
How come the ground connection is so important to RS ballasts? I thought ground only protected the user from being shocked. Neutral They work fine now but if they act up again I'll look deeper into it. The lamps could have jsut been too old. When were the 35W GEs with the big red etch made?
joe_347V   [Aug 17, 2012 at 04:28 PM]
Found this online "A reflector grounded to the ballast (and power wiring) is often required for starting. The capacitance of the reflector aids in initial ionization of the gases. Lack of this connection may result in erratic starting or the need to touch or run your hand along the tube to start." Razz
GullWhiz   [Aug 17, 2012 at 04:33 PM]
my old house 2 U lamp kitchen fixture had a lot of problem starting...so I scratched the white paint off where the green screw and grounding wire was...and it totally solved the problem....This is why there is a label about measurement of the grounding location on the fixtures itself. A grounding is required for rapid start to properly operate. This is why a dirty lamp can have harder time starting because the dirt layers block the connection between lamp and the grounding.
streetlight98   [Aug 17, 2012 at 04:36 PM]
What about the RS ballasts used before ground wires came out? (when did the ground wire come out?)
joe_347V   [Aug 17, 2012 at 04:36 PM]
Also those 34w U lamps are notorious for being hard starters and also tend to cook older ballasts. I prefer 40w lamps and even 32w T8s over those 34 watters.
streetlight98   [Aug 17, 2012 at 04:54 PM]
Why were U-bend lamps even invented? IMO you'll get better performance out of 2X F20T12 or 2X F17T8 instead of one U-bend lamp. Neutral
joe_347V   [Aug 17, 2012 at 05:03 PM]
Well, they allowed fixture makers to use only one ballast in a 2X2 troffer compared to using two if they were using F20 lamps. Also because a 2X2 was so cramped the only way you could make them HPF was with U lamps since two F20 HPF ballast won't fit.

Using one ballast also saves money and energy as compared to using tow ballasts. Another benefit was that the U lamps ran on the same ballast as the F40 linear lamps which means a place with 2X2 and 2X4 troffers only has to sotck one type of replacement ballast.

Oh and I think U lamps have become less popular recently, most newer 2X2s use either 2-3 F17T8s or three PL 55 fluorescents.
GullWhiz   [Aug 17, 2012 at 05:16 PM]
Grounding was actually used before rapid start came out but the requirement of having grounding in every homes and every outlet was adopted in 1962....around the same time rapid start started to become popular. Before that preheaters were widely used and still was even in the 60's

Preheat F-40 was still, made all the way to the early 90s!
streetlight98   [Aug 17, 2012 at 06:06 PM]
Ahh. So grounding was around before it was required? And yeah Joe you have a good point. I was under the impression that U-bend lamps used different ballasts than linier fluorescents. I've noticed that most places like JC Penny's and Macy's use PL 55 lamps now. Places like doctors offices here that are new use 3X F17T8 lamps too. U-bend lamps don't really have all their benifits anymore since electronic ballasts can run many more lamps than a magnetic one can, thus meaning a single ballast as well... I haven't looked closely at the troffers in Lowe's and such, but i think they're U-benders while HD has F17T8s.

BTW, is 3X F32T8 an acceptable replacement for 4X F40T12 without noteable lumen drop or should a 4X F32T8 be used?
joe_347V   [Aug 17, 2012 at 09:39 PM]
Hey Mike, remember this? Razz


Anyways those 2X2s originally used 2 F40 U lamps but was retrofitted to use 2 F17T8s. Three F32s might be enough to replace four F40s but you'll probably have to get a high ballast factor ballast (120% output) instead of a normal ballast factor ballast. (88%)

Oh, and I heard that they made F40 tulamp ballasts and T17 ballasts as late as 2000 or so and I believe the LPF F40 preheat ballasts are still made (since they apparently never got banned go figure) Razz .
streetlight98   [Aug 18, 2012 at 01:29 AM]
lol go figure. the least productive ballasts are still made. Laughing Were T17 ballasts banned or simply phased out by the companies themselves? I wonder why they still make T17 lamps but T12s are being attacked like terrorists. Confused I'm glad T17s are still made but boy are they expensive. The cheapest i've found was just over 20 bucks. It's a no-name lamp, but it has to be GE because GE is the only one who still makes the F90T17s. I have a lifetime supply of T17 starters plus my grandpa apparently has 4 of them (not manual resest though). The manual resets will probably last a LONG time.
joe_347V   [Aug 18, 2012 at 01:46 AM]
I think they just phased out T17 ballasts since it's basically a niche product now, I guess that's why the bulbs and starters are still made. I doubt T17 will get banned, even VHO lamps and ballasts never got banned too along with cold weather HO lamps and ballasts. Too bad the T17 starter sockets and lampholders have long since discontinued. When did they stop making T17 fixtures anyways and when did they change from 100w to 90w.

I guess T12s have suffered most of the bans is because they are the most common magnetically ballasted lamp still in use today.
streetlight98   [Aug 18, 2012 at 02:40 AM]
I've never seen a 100W T17 lamp. Can't most F90T17 ballasts run the 100W lamps as well? How come they used such a close wattage with each other? Were the 90W lamps sort of like a energy-reducing solution? I don't know how old the T17 fixtures in my family are but i looked inside my great-aunt's one a couple years ago and the ballast is MASSIVE. It looked like it could easily weight over 60 pounds. Shocked
joe_347V   [Aug 18, 2012 at 03:18 AM]
Yeah, the default wattage for the T17 shifted over the years to 90w. I don't think they were a energy saver though...I think GE at one point made a wattmiser T17 though that used even less than 90w.

I guess a T17 ballast would be similar in size and weight to a modern VHO ballast eh? Oh and if you have a picture of the ballast label you or the people here might be able to date it.
streetlight98   [Aug 18, 2012 at 03:37 AM]
Yes the 84W watt-miser. It's still made. I googled F90T17 Lamps and got a few results for 84W lamps. The 84W lamps weren't ballast cookers though and didn't act funny like F34T12s do according to someone on the LG.
GullWhiz   [Aug 18, 2012 at 04:31 AM]
I had two 95 watt T17s but gave them away
streetlight98   [Aug 18, 2012 at 05:24 PM]
95W? Was that like a F100T17 energy saver or something? Or did you mean 90W T17s? I've been looking around for a local source for T17s or a place where i can get them cheaper than what i see online but i've had no luck. At least i'm set with starters though. I'd like to get my hands on some FS-40/400 starters for the 40W preheaters but i can't find them at a reasonable price. The lowest I've seen is $3 and change for one starter which isn't worth it IMO.

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