Gallery of Lights
The Site => General discussion => Topic started by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 06, 2012, 10:40:26 AM
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What are some of your relamping (and reballasting) stories? I think this deserves it's own topic...
I'll list some of mine
I've changed household bulbs all my life, but I'm getting into the harder stuff, like:
In my school there are these rapid start F40T12 2 lamp wraparound-like fixtures with an opaque white plastic diffuser that hangs from the sides of the fixture (fixture body is like a regular wraparound, without the endplates).
These are a "PITA" to relamp because first you have to remove the diffuser by pushing it up toward the ceiling (and keep in mind relamping in general is tricky when you're at the top of a ladder) then slide it off.
The lamps aren't all that hard to remove but putting new ones back in is hard because they have these strange "Y" slot lampholders that have a squarish body (never seen these anywhere else except these strange early 1980s fixtures) and it sometimes litterally takes two people to install a tube. Then you have to re-install the diffuser, which is even more of a pain than removing it. If you think regular wraparound diffusers are tricky than these are even worse, only with these lights they are loose but are still a pain to remove/install. Several have cracks where someone got one corner loose and had to yank the whole thing down! The corners come loose often (sagging down and you can see the tubes) and I bet one day one of them will fall on someone's head (maybe mine), but thankfully they're light plastic.
In another wing of the same building I helped re-ballast a wraparound that was in a bathroom. That thing took a lot of time to fix, as even with a new ballast, tubes, AND one new lampholder it STILL didn't work at first.
I'm currently replacing stuff like GE Chroma 50 (both GENERAL (GE) ELECTRIC) and meatball etch), lots of GE Watt-Miser (1995-2003 and 2003-EcoLux) versions, the occasional Sylvania Cool White Plus, etc. with, GET THIS: NOS Norelco F40CWs! No idea how they ended up there (I didn't donate them like some other cool white Norelcos without a case and the warm white MainLighters I'm currently bringing home) but I'm happy to be installing good quality, full wattage, full mercury lamps! These have the modern Sylvania endcaps which I also see on some Philips florescents. The ones I donated (and they're all in use now I think) had GE-ish endcaps that didn't have the rounded off edge though. The one thing I've noticed about them is they render wood (this place is full of wood paneling and that 70s looking paneling with the random width "planks" slightly greenish instead of it's true color like the non-halophosphate cool white.
There is a mix of lamp ages/wattages/color temperatures/replacement ballasts, which is actually kind of interesting! In service are: GE Chroma 50, GE Watt-Misers, True Value F40T12s, Sylvania Cool White Plus, Westpointe F40T12s, Norelco F40CWs, and even the occasional GE Warm White MainLighter lamp that got mixed in! Plus possibly True Value 34w lamps, ACE F40T12s, and GE F40CWs. Pretty Cool! If they ever do a T8 retrofit I'd love to do some of the work and keep the removed ballasts and lamps. I love working on those lights, even if it is a bit of a pain to do. I'm also the one who recycles the dead lamps, and I sort through them whenever I move the dead lamps around. I'm considering getting permission to take some of the really old ones even if they are at EOL.
I usually replace both lamps in a fixture, so I guess some get wasted but maybe I'll get to keep those!
Other stories:
Once I was installing tubes in a light at my house and had one in, was installing the other, and they BOTH fell out in my hands! Let's just say I got off the ladder until my heart rate returned to normal!
I hate heights, but I'm getting over that. I just don't do lights 20+ feet off the ground...
I'll post more when I think of them...what are your guys' stories?
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Cool. I tend to replace only the lamps that fail. I've only serviced lights for family members though. If i were to service lights for a business or public place, etc i'd probably replace all the lamps in the fixture just to reduce maintenance. When there are different color temps, I try to group lamps of the same color temp together. when i was fixing lights in my grandpa's basement, i switched around the tubes so that all the 5000K lamps were together in two fixtures and the cool whites were together in the others lol. Plus i replaced the dead lamps.
when i was putting up my restored shoplite in my utility room, i had some trouble. what i did was hang one end first then move the ladder to the other end and pivot the un-hung end upward and hooked it to the eye-screw in the ceiling. If i had to drill the fixture directly into the beam, i would have needed my dad. Thankfully it came with suspension brackets so that wasn't the case. I simply measured the distance between the two brackets on the housing, installed the eyes screws into the beam, then hook the fixture onto them. Plus, since i wired the fixture to a 24" grounded computer monitor cord, there were no wiring connections to make. Simply hang it and plug it into the ceiling mounted duplex outlet! Probably the easiest and best looking installation I've ever done! After i get my own house I'll be asking around if I can update the lighting in my family members' homes, as there are lots of goodies.
One thing i always do is write the installation date of every lamp i install. That can come in handy in the future when trying to see when the fixture was last relamped.
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Worst thing i had to relamp was near a staircase in a school my aunt worked at and the rail was only 4 feet high and i was looking down 2 flights of stairs! The 1st lamp was a GE ttimline F32T8 and was EOL..the other 3 looked ok so i replaced it with another GE but i wouldn't fit in the troffer. .tried a Sylvania and it fit!
The lights over the stairs were magnetic RS and all 4 lamps in both were EOL and dim.. Didn't have a tall enough ladder so those didnt get changed :-[
I maintain some lights in my family...aunts and uncles house as well as grandmothers and grandfathers place and my house of corse..there's a mix of fluorescent. but nothing old/rare..some T8 and some T12s
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Yeah I don't why GE lamps seem to be bigger than other brand lamps. My restored shoplight barely accepts the Sylvania lamps. If you slide the lamp to one end, the pins will fall out of the other socket! If the sockets were spaced any further apart the lamps would probably drop out. I'm going to try and see if i can bring the sockets a little clser together. The lamps haven't yet fallen out but I don't want to hear my parents if that does happen...
Sylvania lamps are truely the best fluorescents IMO. One thing i noticed is that their Cool White Plus F40T12 lamps will flicker for about a minute after the switch is flipped on. Then as they warm up the flickering gradually disappears. I've had five Sylvania CWP lamps wrapped up in bubble wrap with four GE/HN starters for a couple months now waiting to install them in my cousin's grandpa's garage. Hopefully I can change them out for some NIB F32T8 shoplites (that have been sitting in the garage with a box of alto T8 lamps for years) when i get my own place that has room for more fluorescents. I think he was going to replace them before he became ill. He did replace one of them but the other three are still in the box.
I can't wait to fix them up and see that garage lit up under brilliant preheat fluorescent light! Who knows how long the lights have been out! I noticed one of them was disconnected vis pull-chain switch. The pull-chain was thrown up on top of the fixture so no one would pull it. I got a stool and pulled it to find both lamps violently stobing (they were dead though the starters were working). He must've done that to stop the fixture from frying. Another has the pull-chain broken off (though i'll be fixing it) and the lamps are blackened for about 2" on either end. When the other lights are disconnected (via pull-chain) you can see the tubes barely glowing. I think the starters are dead as well. Hopefully the ballast isn't. I thought it was off until i shut off the others.
The pull-chains serve really no purpose as all the lights are controlled by one switch, but the pull chains can be used to shut off a certain light. Anyways, I'll get pics of the old lamp etches as well as the garage after the relamping is completed. I have pics of what state the lights are currently in (check out my Indoor Lighting album).
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yeah must just be a manufacturing error, and went undetected or something
Those 4 F40T12 design 50 sylvania lamps i installed for a friend flickered for a few days for quite a bit every time they were turned on with those wild "snaking" arcs but they finally calmed down a week ago
yeah im looking forward to seeing how that goes
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There's a shoplight I installed in my garage over the workbench (one of two that I just removed the chains from and took apart and hardwired and mounted straight to the ceiling) that has sockets far apart where lamps barely fit. Once while installing tubes in that light I had one in, was putting in the other, and they both fell out in my hands/arms! I mentioned this before. Anyway I recently installed new tubes in both of them (Sylvania Cool WHite Plus) and last time I turned it on that light had one tube glow at the ends and one do nothing so I'm wondering id the contacts are coming apart (and I don't want the tubes to fall out/break because, like Mike, I'll hear about it for sure if they do. However, it was pretty chilly in there so maybe that was the problem. One day when I have nothing better to do I'll mess with it. That light has actually been a pain from day one, with many different tubes.
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Yeah I'd try moving the socket s a bit closer together and install GE lamps when the sylvanias fail (maybe a pair of those mainlighters?)
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When I bring home more I might have to try that...
Are the Sylvania lamps slightly shorter or something?
Today while finding some lights for a school play we are doing I found one with a vintage 15w Sylvania bulb! I asked for it, and now it's sitting in my bulb display!
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cool! Post a pic! BTW, no sylvania lamps are normal sized but GE's are a tiny bit loner or at least the 2ft ones are. The pins are about 1mm longer on each end. doesn't sound like much but it'll solve the distance issue between the sockets.
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I'll see about that sometime, next time I bring home some MainLighter lamps...
I'll post a pic now...
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I replaced the 34w Watt-Misers in one of my shoplights with a pair of my warm white MainLighters yesterday!
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Yesterday I replaced a cheap NPF F40T12 shoplight with a Lithiona F32T8 wraparound.
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I had to replace the starter from my industrial shoplite today. The lamp was just glowing on the ends. It sucks since it was my most blink-happy FS-4 starter out of the three (now two) that i have. I punched two holes in the dead starter's top part of the casing and stuck the base in by the pins as to show the insides of the starter and the case in one piece, thus like a display. I was goin to put it on a newer starter, but two of the flaps that hold the case to the base broke off so i just cut off the other two and made it into a display for the lighting uneducated and others interested lol. I'll post a pic when i get a chance... I wish i could get some NOS vintage starters! I saw some on ebay, but I'm not sure if my parents will let me get them...
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If I were you I'd get a modern starter for that light, dunnno why but I think those green transparent Leviton ones are cool (never had one though and I don't know if a FS-4 version exists but I'm guessing it does)
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Interestingly, right before my party tonight, the starter in my "stealth preheater" stuck (it was a rapid start fixture and I did not make a knock-out to access the starter - you have to take the fixture apart). After turning it off for a while I was able to get it to light up, but I'm sure its days are numbered.
I like using GE starters as they are the only ones left around here that still have the metal can...which looks better and more "vintage" than the plastic-cased ones IMHO. Though I've already seen the white plastic China GE's showing up...
Relamping stories....have more than I can remember, and no, I don't do it for a living either...they have been volunteer jobs. Let's see:
Stuck diffusers and hinges, diffusers that shatter as you remove them, lamps and starters that separate from their bases, wasp nests, spiders, fixtures you just can't figure out how to open, sockets that decompose when you remove the lamp, ladders that aren't tall enough, screws that are stripped or lose their heads, new lamps that are defective, fixtures filled with water, fixtures in strange and dangerous places........if anyone things changing a light bulb is easy, they haven't serviced enough light fixtures!
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Try having to take out a window and getting shocked too! I didn't do that, but I saw someone I know do it once (had to remove the window to access the outside light from upper story of building)
If anything I would like to have those green cased Leviton starters over metal ones.
Yep, all mine have been volunteer jobs too.
Yeah, it isn't always easy for sure!
I'm just glad I've never had to relamp anything 20+ feet in the air!
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another random thing ive discovered is removing the plastic capacitor/ RF suppressor next to the glow-bottle will often cause starters to work normally again
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if it works without the cap then how come it needs it? :-\
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I'm not sure...
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The tiny capacitor is only for noise elimination so when preheater is starting there is no interference with radios and TV remotes...the capacitor is otherwise useless
I don't leave dead lamps so it isn't an issue with it interfering wit anything
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I knew it was for RFI supression but how does it work/make the starter not work sometimes?
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I believe it shorts out eventually which causes the lamps toglow at the ends
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What If the glowbottle dies?
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then i suppose nothing happens at all, contacts failed open circuit..this is more unusual
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They made starters without the RF cap, I believe the Super Starters don't have the cap.
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Slightly off topic, but it's looking more and more like I'll be getting that vintage shoplight I've been talking about within the next few weeks!
I wouldn't be surprised if it's very similar to Mike's 1973 HPF RS shoplight...I'll get pics for sure, and I have plenty of full power 40w tubes waiting for it (Including warm white GE MainLighter lamps from 1979!)
On the subject of relamping, I once had the experience of helping relamp a "can light" that was like fifteen feet above a concrete floor!
I've also done lots of household electrical wiring in my life.
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Earlier this week I had to fix another light at my school. It was on a sloped ceiling on the high side. It was one of those weird wraparound-ish fixtures with the milky white lens and those stupid "Y" slot lampholders (which I guess are supposed to be more user-friendly but they're not when you're used to the regular "tombstone" sockets which you've installed and removed lamps from many times and you're on the top step of a ladder and have to work over your head). The lamps are easy to remove but often take two people to install (maybe because I'm admittedly not super great at this). Like I said before, the diffusers on these lights are a major pain to work with, although this one actually came off pretty easily for once!
To add to it, this light was right above the copy machine and luckily no one happened to be printing/scanning/copying anything.
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can you get a pic of one of these lights? I'm wodnering what they look like...
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I'll try, but I'm currently having camera issues...
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Since this thread is about somewhat frustrating/irritating lighting repair experiences, here's a good one from 20 minutes ago...
I brought home that vintage shoplight this afternoon. I decided to pop the ballast cover (a wide, THICK reflector compared to the shoplights of today) to see what ballast it had. It's a (and I kid you not) General Electric BonusLine .8A ballast that's rated for 34w lamps but I won't use any just to be sure. (I've wanted one of these for awhile now). It appears to have lost some tar at some point in it's life but it's still pretty quiet which is a good sign (and most likely has PCBs but I haven't looked for the date code). So in the process of reinstalling the reflector (I only removed one screw, just so I could peek underneath) I disturbed one of the lampholder brackets and in the process of fixing that and knocking the lampholders off I broke a socket. So I was able to replace it (thankfully I had similar ones from a cheapo shoplight (the ones described in the cheap shoplight syndrome thread I started) that I was able to use. I was able to get away with replacing only one socket and there's a slight mismatch (noticeable when installing the tube) but it works. Then I was able to re-install the reflector without further incident and stuck in a pair of (Mike will appreciate this) Sylvania CWP tubes and fired it up. Those tubes have slight mercury starvation issues it seems (flickers dimly at startup) but that didn't last long with a good full power ballast behind those lamps. I haven't tried different lamps yet but it doesn't have much startup flicker from the three times it's been lit so far. The .73A ballasts seem to produce exciting startup flicker though.
All in all it was about fifteen minutes of frustration but it was well worth it! I'm satisfied:)
At this point plans for this light are TBA, but I'm considering my bedroom ceiling.
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Wow! Sounds like you got a GREAT example of what a fluorescent light SHOULD be! ;D Me with my OCD-like personality would have had to replace all four sockets lol. New paint is another one of my "obsessions." When/if i get the three preheaters from mt cousins' grandmother replaceing all the sockets will be one of the first things i do! The sockets are corroding and for whatever reason one end of all the fixtures has Y-slot sockets while the other has doughnut sockets.
And yeah lol on the CWP sylvania lamps. ;D 8) I've noticed they're sort of mercury starved. They STILL flicker for a few minutes on my shoplite after about 6 months of use. They don't flicker on the preheaters though after an initial warm up time. I must have a .73 amp ballast...
I'm really wondering what kind of lights are in my great-aunt's tool shed. I'd die if they were all T17s!
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Now I've stuck in some warm white GE MainLighters and it's lit as I type on the counter/workbench in my room (yes I really have one in my room) and it's lighting the white ceiling and reflecting off. I mainly used the Sylvania CWPs to test the fixture so if sparks/smoke/weird electrical problems occurred I wouldn't trash a pair of my MainLighters.
My rule of thumb is...always use modern, expendable lamps to test an unknown fixture/ballast (regardless of if it's HID or florescent)...
I really don't like warm white (especially halophosphate) but these are a really nice color! 1979 (the year Dave Silverliner dated the lamps to) seems to have been a great year for florescent lighting! My .8A Advance ballast is from 3/79 I think...
BTW this pair of lamps has PERFECT etches and one has a TON of mercury! It's visible even when the lamp is off!
I'm admittedly OCD about etches being the "right" way on florescent tubes (installed where visible if possible and not upside down) too.
BTW since this lot of MainLighters is used and has this weird end banding it's easy to spot them in a bunch of other tubes I have when I'm specifically looking for a MainLighter.
I need to paint this light and may change the sockets at some point but that will happen at a later date.
Y-slot and donut lampholders? Sounds to me like a major pain in the rear to relamp those fixtures!
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Not really. They actually go in the same way. i like the doughnut shaped ones SO much better though i can't find them locally for whatever reason... I'm the same way about the etches, I try to make them visible when i can but all the lamps absoulutly MUST have the etches on the same end and all the etches in the room must face the same way whenever possible LOL.
As for end banding, do you mean a weird black ring that appears a couple inches from the end cap on one end? I've seen that happen to some EcoLux lamps at WalMart. It's odd nonetheless IMO.
Yeah new paint will make that beautie really look new! I'm not the kind of person who always repaints ballast casings on fluorescents though. LOL If it was rusted I'd leave it unless the label was missing then it's paint time hehe.
Sometimes if the sockets are stained or the cardboard like stuff on the backside is shipped or bowed (usually a sign of water from its previous mounting place) I'll replace the sockets just so it looks newer. I really hate the y-slot sockets in my shoplite. I wish i had found some doughnut ones at HD but all they has was y-slot and slimline as well as RDC.
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Sounds like it's time for a trip to Lowes, Ace, True Value, etc. (if you have one in your area) then to see if they have them...
I agree that Y-slot lampholders are a pain in the rear though! I've described the lights at my school before and how much of a pain they are to relamp...
My MainLighters have this strange brown end banding that's visible when the lamp is off and outdoors in daylight (bringing them home). I've seen black end banding like what you're describing on other lamps though.
I'm not painting the ballast unless the label goes missing and it's totally rusted and I might not even paint the inside of the ballast channel but I plan to eventually paint the outside of the fixture. The cord goes through the top but I'm considering changing that to going through one of the end knockouts as I usually mount shoplights directly to the ceiling without the chains.
If this ballast dies someday and I can find one I might also convert it to preheat as I could use the knockout on each endplate for starters too. But that means the cord would have to go through the top UNLESS I drilled more holes, but I'd prefer to not hack this light up...
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there are no aces around here but i've had luck before at my local true value. they do have the lamp/starter socets but i'd need the standard sockets since the starters are positioned on the sides. not sure why the lamps have brown bandings though. I've never seen that.
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I'm surprised that you guys don't have the doughnut slot holders available locally Mike, over here all the hardware places sell them but only a few sell the Y-slot holders and the one with the intgerated starter socket is not sold here at all. Anyways I guess you could pick up some Levitons on eBay or something.
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yeah it's kinda odd to me as well. Anyways, yeah I'd likely get them off here (http://www.1000bulbs.com/product/5314/SOCK-L13357U.html) since this is the best price i've seen. I'm sure ebay has better prices but i prefer to buy from a "solid" product stock and a well-known company so i know i'm not getting screwed or anything.
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UPDATE: I brought home two more of those MainLighter tubes today and tested them in my rescued vintage shoplight. They work great! One appears to be of the 5/79 Jackson, MS origin and another appears to be from a different factory and/or date...
Something else...full power .8A ballasts don't produce much startup flicker. .73A ballasts are great for that with 40w lamps.
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This morning I mounted that rescued vintage shoplight over my desk/workbench. I had to replace another socket, mess with the lampholder brackets, and find something other than drywall screws to hold on the reflector but it works! Looks good with the warm white MainLighter lamps in it in this location too!
Oh, and I noticed the reflector has "RAPID START LAMPS ONLY" stamped into it. This leads me to believe that all the other shoplights similar to this I've seen in my area are Sears with GE BonusLine ballasts and came from True Value...but I'm not sure. My US history teacher (the one who used to own the house this light came from) has a new place with a nice outbuilding for a woodshop (I already mentioned he does woodworking) with a bunch of similar shoplights. There are some bad tubes there and I might offer to replace them and verify they are like mine.
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My shoplite said "RAPID START LAMPS ONLY" and "REPLACE BALLAST WITH RAPID START CLASS P BALLAST ONLY" stamped on the inside. I sprayed over it when i painted it though. :8) The ballast label was torn halfway by the previous owner for whatever reason. It's really eating me not knowing what knid of lights are in my great-aunt's tool shed. the power was cut a couple years ago and she said i can have them but I haven't been there in over two years! she said the strips in the garage are working fine which is good and so are the F20T12 tulamp preheat shoplites in the basement. ( i think there are two of them...)
So she has:
(2) F20T12 tulamp preheat shoplites
(1) F40T12 one lamp RS strip light
(1) F40T12 tulamp RS strip light
(1) F90T17 tulamp preheat parabolic fixture
(1) 8ft F40T12 tulamp wall mount fixture (either preheat or RS)
plus a couple or so fluorescents in the tool shed! And i can get them all if i replace them! :o :o :o The ones in the tool shed don't need to be replaced though since there's no power to the shed which means i can also score on some receptacles and switches too.
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Yeah, even if I tried to not cover it too thick with paint it would obliterate the stamping. When this gets painted someday I will also not paint the area where the UL sticker is unless it becomes totally unreadable. I'd like to paint the inside of the ballast channel but there's something (don't remember it word for word) about what degree c. of supply wire to use ink stamped in blue and I might not paint that anyway since no one will see it...
I might someday have to replace the ballast though since it has a small tar leak. If I find another working .8A or .73A ballast I might remove the BonusLine ballast to preserve it anyway...but worst case scenario is a T8 electronic instant start conversion...
I'm reading more on PCBs and they're nasty stuff! Just be sure to handle a PCB-containing ballast with gloves (especially if it has leaked tar) and you should be fine...
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a so yours hase it engraved? Mine has a simple ink stamp on the inside so i painted right over it LOL. I wrote down what the text was before painting it so i could rewite it in sharpie but i lost the paper i wrote it on. >:( i supposed you could do the same. BTW, most lights require 90 degree or 105 degree celcius wiring if that helps.
Yes! PCBs are nasty stuff indeed! The good thing is it's only toxic to the touch, so you won't get hurt from being in the same room as it. yep, just ask you said, wear liquid proof gloves (i read somewhere about wearing two latex gloves on each hand, though keeping a pair of rubber gloves won't be a bad idea) and make sure to throw away ANYTHING that comes in contact with the PCBs like the fixture, gloves, clothes if needed, etc. I guess if it spills onto the floor it's HazMat time though...
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Yes, my light has "RAPID START LAMPS ONLY" engraved into the reflector.
From what I read I think PCBs CAN contaminate the air but only if it's, say, the leaky basement of a house built over a poorly-designed landfill...
I use rubber gloves for just about everything anyway...
I don't think I'd need to throw away the fixture if the tar was contained INSIDE the ballast compartment and was only a small amount, but if the fixture was really toasted and tarred it would end up being thrown away (or wrapped in plastic waiting to be properly disposed of at a HazMat place).
If it spilled on the floor my neighborhood would be evacuated and all the houses condemned and demolished (just kidding) LOL...
And people seal off rooms with duct tape and towels around the door because of broken CFLs all the time...
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LOL about the crazy CFL people. ;D If the ballast leaked PCBs you'd have to throw away any part of the fixture that the PCBs touched. :( Boy I have a lot of things to get! I have to get two mogul base sockets, some slip-on connector crimps, a 400W HPS lamp, fuses for the fluoros, and buy the traffic signal visors and gaskets! :o :o
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Here's a good one...today I was testing four newly-brought-home GE MainLighters. Like most of the lamps I acquire, I tested them in my rescued Sears shoplight. So keep in mind the sockets on said light are a bit fussy...since they don't match. Anyhow the last lamp of today's four appeared to be bad as it did have some end blackening and wouldn't fully light. So I tried another lamp. And another. And another. By now it was pretty obvious it wasn't the lamps' fault. So I stuck in the lamp I had in that side (2 lamp fixture) previously (a Norelco F40CW I acquired yesterday) and it still did the dim-glow thing. (both tubes were lit, but dim and flickering and the ballast was buzzing pretty loud.)
After being frustrated with this for about a minute, I had the idea to fiddle with the other tube (a warm white MainLighter) and then the thing worked! I actually said "that's funny!" out loud! It really was!
Moral of the story...be sure both lamps are inserted properly!
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LOL yeah that's the thing with magnetic RS fixtures lol. While magnetic RS seems to give the longest lamp life and was pretty low cost in it's day, I hate the flickering of lamps on some ballasts, the dimness of the lamps even with full wattage (preheat seems to give more light per lamp) and the unpredictable nature of the lamps in cold weather. But then again it's the unpredictable part that makes magnetic ballasts so interesting! electronic ballasts are pretty much robots that all work in sync lol.
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There's something cool about walking into a room, flipping the switch, and seeing all the lights flicker on at different speeds, some with 34w lamps and some with 40w, mixed color temperatures, etc!
That's how it is at my school.
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Here's one from awhile ago...when I saved those two MetaLux/Gibson florescent fixtures from my school they were a PITA to take down! Add to that not knowing how heavy they were, working electrically "Hot" (the ballasts were even warm as myself and someone else struggled to take the ballast covers off and we had a heck of a time doing that), and being in really awkward positions! It took us awhile of scratching our heads to get the ballast covers off but after revealing an Advance .77 amp ballast I knew I had to save these! So the second one was easier to disassemble, and revealed a Universal green/yellow label Therm-O-Matic .8 amp ballast (see my gallery). Then we had to take the fixtures off the ceiling, support and un-wire them (whilst still "live"; what fun (insert sarcastic voice!)
Then they were mine and within three days they were both at my house and powered up!
The ballasts...
(http://www.galleryoflights.org/mb/gallery/displayimage.php?album=641&pos=6)
(http://www.galleryoflights.org/mb/gallery/displayimage.php?album=641&pos=13)
EDIT...what did I do wrong in posting the above pics? I followed the instructions in the forum but did I do something wrong?
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Picture One (http://www.galleryoflights.org/mb/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-14624)
Picture Two (http://www.galleryoflights.org/mb/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-14603)
I turned your pictures into links on my post. :) i'm not sure why the pic won't appear in the forum but the links work. Just make sure they're the right ones.
Also why on earth didn't you shut off the power!!!!! :o :o :o When i remove heavy fixtures i usually just use the wire cutters on the supply leads and re-strip them after lol.
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If it was up to me I would have, but also the same switch was powering the other lights in the room...
We un-wire-nutted them if I remember correctly, probably safer when working live than cutting the wires but if it had been up to me I would have shut off the power, un-wired them while they were still on the ceiling, then taken them down. But I was collaborating with other people...
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well those other people obviously don't care about your safety! or their for that matter. :o i always carry my homemade bucket light (see my "Lights made by Michael" album) with me to relampings so i can safely shut off the power to the fixtures. I've never had to remove fixtures other than in my own home though.
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I actually really like the idea of having a "relamping light"...
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yeah it comes in real handy when you have to work on a fixture and it's either dark out or there are no windows in the room. You have to find an outlet though!
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I don't think there was...or maybe there was one; I don't remember. An extension cord is the answer to that ;D
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LOL yeah. My home-made bucket light has a 15ft cord on it so that's usually more than enough. I normally put the bucker light in the little table piece that is attatched to the ladder. If it doesn't reach, i just aim the light at the fixture from where it is. If i can, i'll just do the work in daylight but that's not always possible plus sometimes there's still not enough light and if it's a gloomy day out the light will make you feel "warmer" lol.
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Yeah, on dreary, rainy days (which we have a lot of in Southeast Alaska) I usually always turn on all the lights in the room I'm in, even if they're not "warm". Case in point, right now it's damp and dreary and I'm working under GE C50 F40s.
Anyone know the feeling of removing/installing lamps and having the tombstones break? When I (sorta) restored that Sears shoplight, that's what happened...It still works but one of the contacts is exposed...NOT something you'd want on T8 IS ballasts but I think for magnetic RS it's fine although I'll replace it when I get some new sockets...well probably all four of them and a new ballast and cord (AKA everything electrical about it)
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Yeah we havn't had rain since the start of march and we got our first rain since then this week. it's a little gloomy today with on and off rain. I went into the laundry room and saw this hairy spider about the size of a penny hanging from my single lamp preheat industrial. I was going to get it with the broom but i didn't want it escaping and crawling near my street lights lol. so i left it alone. I'll let my dad get it lol. It'll probably be gone by then... I should have taped over the knockout where the pull chain used to be though to keep any bugs that want to nest in there out. Plus i don't know if any bugs like the taste of cloth... (the wires O_O)
as for the socket, i don't recommend leaving the borken socket in use or at the least don't use it exposed, tape it up. you don't want the lamp dropping out and god forbid someone happened to touch it. :o I've never broken a socket relamping a fixture but the sockets in the preheaters in my cousins' grandma's garage are pretty corroded and don't hold the lamps very well. If the lamps need to be changed again, the sockets will probably need to be replaced too but if i can have those lights, the lamps will likely all work when i remove them given one of my cousins doesn't leave them on over the whole winter again lol. that's how the old lamps had died. :8) the replacement fixtures and lamps are already there, they just need to be installed.
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Ya know, electrical taping that isn't a bad idea heaven forbid someone touched it, bugs or dust got in there, etc...
I got some 22w circlines today...
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especially water. then ballast no workey. :( M-250R1 still not listed. >:( I watching the seller's listings like a hawk lol.
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i change electronic ballasts all the time live, its impractical to locate the breaker and risk peoples saftey shutting off the lights in a store or a section,i do wear some thin rubber "lamp changing" gloves while i work live, as soon as i get the hot wire restripped i stick a quick disconnect onto it allong with the neutral inthe other side then go about replacing the balalst...oldest ones ive come across were MagneTek 2XF96T8/IS from 1998 ..sadly these last longer then the REPLACEMENT ballasts i have been replacing
a few times a ballast was right over the isle and i relocated it to the other side of the channel which had a footprint to mount a ballast
also i used the bucket truck to change a dead 400W cram MH lamp!
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yeah i suppose in a commercial environment you have to do it live as long as you wear gloves and take all precautionary measures. But on the flip side, what's worse: shutting off some of the lights and closing off that part of the store or you getting shocked and killed (in a worse case scenario)? When they changed the lights in my middle school's gym from 400W Mh to 6X F32T8 they shut off the gym lights on the half of the gym they were working on and we were in the gym waiting for the busses! I had the perfect opportunity to go ask for a light (this was 7th grade so i would've probably gotten a no anyways...) but i had resisted, since i couldn't bring it on the bus with my anyways and at the time i didn't have a cell phone to call my parents.
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Recently I helped a friend service some 2XF96T12 fixtures. I installed/removed a slimline lamp for the first time! (It worked, but I installed/removed it for practice)
Any ideas what could cause two F96 slimline lights (only 2 on the switch) to buzz but not light, and sometimes flash when power was turned on or off? We tried swapping lamps from other fixtures (90s 60w cool white GE Watt-Misers). Another light only lights one lamp at like 2/3 brightness...we tried different lamps there as well but no luck...again any ideas? THAT ballast is a replacement that has apparently never worked right...could it be defective right out of the box? We tried redoing the wire connections but still no worky.... ???
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try 75W lamps? also make sure you have the red leads on one end of the lamp to the white/neutral comming in are on the same lamp...different ends of corse...and black/hot on one end of the other lamp with blue on the other end and make sure the white and black ballast leads are connected as well
also check sockets...sounds as if the lead lamp (blue wire)isnt making connection and the lag lamp is dimly lit...same thing happens with this condition in my fixture with MagneTek ballast
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No but I doubt they were the issue...although those 60w energy savers striated at first even in hot, dry California weather! Whatever it was, I think it was wired correctly but we'd have to climb up there and check again...which on a high ceiling is/was a major PITA. We opened another (working) light to double-check too thinking the ballast may have been mis-wired but I doubt that's the case.
I suppose sockets could be the problem, after all this is in a woodshop and sawdust eventually mangages to find it's way into every little nook and cranny in places like that...
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weird... yeah i'd replace the sockets and go from there if you've checked the wiring. If it's feasible, take the fixtures down, then totally unwire the ballast to the sockets and rewire again with new sockets, referring to the ballast diagram.
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Not terribly feasable considering they're really high up except for one, which works flawlessly.
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Hmm. I guess you'll have to replace the sockets/rewire them mounted then. just don't install one of those 4X F32T8 retrofit ballast channel covers. >:( :P lol
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I already suggested F96T8...The ballast cover on these fixtures is in two 4' sections so even without a retrofit kit it could be made 4XF32T8 if desired...but he wants to replace them with T5s anyway and he said he's set at least one slimline light aside for me if/when that happens...hopefully I could score all nine of them though! ;D
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maybe when he sees the cost of T5s he'll be turned off from the idea... they overprice those T5 lamps, fixtures, and ballasts except for the 4, 6, 8, and 13W preheat lamps. btw, check out the LG for pics of my R1. :D
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Yeah, that's the most likely scenario...if nothing else they'll soon be rare/vintage, just like F40 preheat fixtures are now!
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I just replaced some EOL circa-1988 Philips F40CWs with a pair of modern ACE SP41 Eco lamps...I assume a GE 'Residential' Ecolux in disguise since it has a green etch (which I assume automatically means Eco/Low-Mercury). Thing is...they only lasted 10-15 minutes! I was in the garage (where these fixtures are located) doing laundry just after replamping said light, and just as I went to look at my handiwork thinking, "Well, it's one heck of a lot brighter! That was long overdue!" and saw the lamps dim and slowly fade out with some striations and strobing. Thinking they were loose and about to fall out of the loose Y-slot sockets and smash on the concrete floor, I grabbed the stepstool again and climbed back up there and fiddled with them...all they do is glow dimly at the cathodes. WTF? Could they be slowly losing vacuum? I'll leave them in there for a few days just in case they somehow need to "Burn-in" (I have heard of and seen fluorescent lamps doing strange things for the first few hours/days of their life...is this normal/will it rectify itself? (pardon the pun).
Any ideas? I'll also describe that in the "Help! My Mainlighters just glow at the ends" thread too...
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This summer I had to reballast a Lithiona single-lamp 4' vaportight light on my boat. This would probably be my worst relamping/reballasting story so far so enjoy a good laugh! Apparently the light was found for 10 bucks at a thrift store in Seward, AK. When I got there, it didn't work. I was told another electrician friend (Who used to live in my house oddly enough!) had said it was the wrong ballast. Later, when I got around to trying to fix it, I discovered, as I had somehow anticipated, that there was a 277v F32T8 ballast in there that was wired to 120v (And of course didn't work!) So I went out and bought a 2-lamp Advance electronic rapid start F40/F34 ballast, (Couldn't find a T8 ballast and it had identical wiring to a magnetic rapid start ballast so it could run one lamp fine, and a "Buyer's Choice" (Sylvania) F40CWX for it. I got back there and started to replace the ballast only to discover the fixture had those internally-shunted instant-start tombstones (Which I personally hate!). So a few weeks after that I went to True Value, couldn't find regular donut-slot tombstone sockets, so ended up buying a pair of (I think Hubbell but I don't remember) Y-slot tombstones that were really nice; they had screw terminals, and were really long...I think they were the type you'd use in a strip fixture. I ended up canibalizing them a bit by removing the screws they'd atttach to the fixture with, and jammed them in there. Since the ballast had short leads (Agh!) I had to splice everything with wirenuts too. Then I lost the little wingnut-like thingy that holds the ballast cover up (The inside of this light was basically a strip fixture inside a vaportight enclosure). So, in my infinite wisdom I made one out of zip-ties between the hole and the slots the lampholder brackets fit in (There was still enough space for a few small zip-ties) and got the cover back on. Stuck the lamp in, put the vaportight lens back on, and it worked! Overall I must admit it was a rather crappy job though.
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LOL that's funny lol.
I really haven't relamped any fixtures but i changed a couple of starters in my longjohn ballast fixture in my laundry room becuase the original vicron ones were fussy. Somtimes they'd instant start, other times not at all. IS preheat is boring and when they don't start at all then you don't have enough light. So i installed a Hemco FS-4 and a Hubbell Neostart FS-4.
I noticed one lamp is always dimmer than the other and when there are no starters the lamps will glow dimly. When one starter is on for one lamp, both lamps will start and if there's one starter in the other starter socket only that lamp will light. Is this a LEAD-LAG ballast?
also, i noticed that with the hubbell and hemco starters, sometimes on a cold start one of the starters (i don't know which one) will start the lamp then shut the lamp off and start the lamp and shut the lamps off and start the lamp and shut the lamp off in a never ending cycl. It'll stay on for 2-6 seconds then shut off and restart. Just that one lamp (the dimmer one). The lamp starts sucessfully but then it shuts off and restarts endlessly until you shut off the switch then turn it back on then it'll start regularly every time until it randomly will blink on and off on a cold start.
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Sometimes those F40 preheat ballasts can dim-glow without starters, or even more interestingly, sorta rapid-start...in which case it would be funny to use an old Westy or Philips lamp since it would technically be "Preheat-Rapid start!" I don't think it's good for the lamps though.
If the ground is disconnected it might not do this...I suppose you could experiment with that!
Any update on if the Sylvania CWP lamps and Leviton starters got the one basement light working at your aunt and uncle's house?
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yeah it's not good for the lamps. Neither are those instant starting starters. The best type of starters are the ones that keep the contacts closed for a good 3-5 seconds (so the ends glow orange) then they do a loud single "PING!" as the lamp comes on. of course the blink happy ones are the most entertaining!
Adn nope, not update yet, though vitnagefluorescent on the LG said that there's a good chance that the ballast is dead since preheat ballasts will typically hum loudly if they're shorted or if most of the tar has leaked out. If the thing has leaked tar and PCBs i'm just throwing it out. I don't want to deal with that. I'll keep the sockets and starter sockets but if it's leaked tar, it's going to the curb if PCBs have leaked. If it's just tar, i'll see if i can salvage it.
I gave her junk lamps just in case the ballast was toast and the lamp filaments burnt up. I won't miss those mercury starved things lol. I'm really hoping the fixture works though. If not, i'll stick the lamps and starters in the 1940s fixture to see if it still works and if not, they'll go in the fixture that used to work with one lamp, as i know that fixture works.
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Don't chuck it if there's PCBs on the inside...just be VERY careful replacing the ballast! That light deserves a home!
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eh well i want to live so that i can give all the other fixtures a home. if i die without warning i won't have enough time to give all my lights foster homes with members here and on the LG. :P
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LOL in that case I have a really bad one right over my chest freezer in my garage...that Sears light with the tar-leaked GE Bonusline ballast. It still works though and is used every day! And I might be able to eventually get several more lights just like it! (Check the off topic topic).
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Several today...
-At my school they were relamping the 100w HPS gym lights (Eww, indoor HPS...VERY 80s looking!) and I watched...taught them what an ignitor is and how they tend to die with dead/cycling/missing lamps. They were sticking in (PlusRite I think) lamps. The new ones are brighter and oranger. We'll see what the startup is like...still blue mercury color or no, just straight orange?
-They also got some new Sylvania F40/Daylight Full Spectrum lamps judging by the case...which I think would be better than the typical (Boring IMO) cool white.
-And at home today I changed a F40 ballast. It was a 1996 (H 96 so I assume August '98) MagneTek that was in a Lithiona wraparound in my garage that has always been tempermental about starting in cold or at all...turns out it was never grounded for one thing (granted, I admittedly didn't ground it's replacement either...a Radionic LPF one that came out of a similar light I had as a growlight for awhile...which I also decommissoned today so I decided to stick it's guts (Ballast and sockets as one unit) in the light in the garage. The old ballast isn't TOTALLY dead...it lights the cathodes and buzzes so I may have to try some other tests. It was running a pair of 1999 Philips "HomeLight" triphosphor 4100K post-EPACT lamps that aren't Alto. Kinda purplish color, cooler and more purplish than CWX. I stuck in a '91-'94 Era ACE F40CW and a later (and close to EOL) ACE SP41, both GE-made.
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hmm you should try the balalst on different sockets. sometimes the lampholders don't allow the lamps to make a good connection anymore after years or wear and tear.
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These are in good shape and the filaments get heated so they're making a connection just fine...I need to try the ballast in the shunted single-lamp mode...you know, my infamous trick. Or maybe it just hates cold and works fine...
It's replacement still is very fussy about starting since it isn't grounded...I have to touch the secondary/lag lamp to make it light, and in the process of doing that today (while on the cordless phone) broke the diffuser. It REALLY needs a nice full-power ballast or an electronic one...both of those work so much better in the cold. (And are brighter and less flickery in general).