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Lanterns/Fixtures => Modern => Topic started by: Form109 on November 26, 2009, 07:57:55 PM

Title: Lighting Upgrades in Small Towns Spelling the End for Old Mercury Vapor Installs
Post by: Form109 on November 26, 2009, 07:57:55 PM
today while driving through several small towns Previously Dominant with Mercury Vapor Fixtures...something was missing.

in Lindale Texas several of the Remote Ballasted OV-25's which were 400 Watt Mercury Vapor had been replaced with General Electric M250R2's which were High Pressure Sodium 200 or 250 Watts.

isnt this Sad? :'(
Title: Re: Lighting Upgrades in Small Towns Spelling the End for Old Mercury Vapor Installs
Post by: Medved on November 27, 2009, 01:34:13 PM
It is, but HPS are really a cheapest light today.
One most important (and pity) reason, as their cycling at their EOL deliberately ensure the fixture regular maintenance... It was sad true, then responsible people neglect it with MV's (but glory to exceptions)...
Title: Re: Lighting Upgrades in Small Towns Spelling the End for Old Mercury Vapor Installs
Post by: Form109 on November 27, 2009, 02:20:48 PM
It is, but HPS are really a cheapest light today.
One most important (and pity) reason, as their cycling at their EOL deliberately ensure the fixture regular maintenance... It was sad true, then responsible people neglect it with MV's (but glory to exceptions)...

Cheapest?...i hardly think so,while High Pressure Sodium is More Efficent,the Fixtures,Lamps and gear cost more than an similar mercury vapor installation,mercury vapor lamps dont Cycle,or Leak...id rather have a dimmed out merc than a HPS that was Cycling,The Falliure rate of HPS is Higher than MV,not to mention theres less usable visibility from the Ugly Orange Light it emits!
Title: Re: Lighting Upgrades in Small Towns Spelling the End for Old Mercury Vapor Inst
Post by: Jace the Gull on November 29, 2009, 06:37:35 AM
Cyclers don't always help maintenance actually, in my area, both MV and HPS are well serviced......but the electrical company south of mine has a road with 35 streetlights that was installed about 10 years ago, and only 5 of them works! about other 5 is cycling and the other 25 WAS cycling but now is all leaked out or dead fixtures!!! and in the same road there are 12 HPS coming from my electrical company which all works! in matter of fact it is the same road as  this one  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taCCQ2Yb8yk)  the exact spot where the 2 electrical companies meets is exactly at 0:45......You can actually see the difference!!!
Title: Re: Lighting Upgrades in Small Towns Spelling the End for Old Mercury Vapor Installs
Post by: Medved on December 13, 2009, 02:39:35 PM
Cheapest?...i hardly think so,while High Pressure Sodium is More Efficent
This is the main reason for the "cost of light" difference

the Fixtures,Lamps and gear cost more than an similar mercury vapor installation
The real difference is only the ignitor, other differences are only marketing. So when MV's would enjoy the same popularity (between the lighting officials) as HPS, the gear would cost the same.

mercury vapor lamps dont Cycle,or Leak...id rather have a dimmed out merc than a HPS that was Cycling,The Falliure rate of HPS is Higher than MV,not to mention theres less usable visibility from the Ugly Orange Light it emits!
Well, if the HPS would be serviced as HID's should (so maximum 4 years group relamping for newer HPS, otherwise 3 years for both HPS and MV and 2 years for MH), you would nearly not see any cycler, nor dimmed out merc. By the way merc with output below 70% of rated level (so barely not yet noticable brightness loss) belong to "not working", exactly the same as HPS cycler.

And the ugliness of the orange light is matter of quality and not cost of the light, then it is other story.
Title: Re: Lighting Upgrades in Small Towns Spelling the End for Old Mercury Vapor Installs
Post by: RCM on January 03, 2010, 03:44:41 AM
HPS does have the capability of looking nice in the right places, it's just not suited for streetlights! if they made the color a little less orange, and a little more white, it would resemble incandescent light!

I don't hate or dislike HPS, I like HPS just as much as other lamp types!
Title: Re: Lighting Upgrades in Small Towns Spelling the End for Old Mercury Vapor Inst
Post by: Jace the Gull on January 06, 2010, 10:34:42 AM
more importantly...white lights should be used in local areas while HPS can be more suitable for highways or such...
Title: Re: Lighting Upgrades in Small Towns Spelling the End for Old Mercury Vapor Inst
Post by: Medved on January 06, 2010, 02:44:51 PM
more importantly...white lights should be used in local areas while HPS can be more suitable for highways or such...

I don't think it is safe to use lamps with too poor (below ~50) color rendering on highways, mainly in states using Vienna convention traffic signs (nearly all the world except North America), as their color coding help to quickly identify the category, so you don't have to focus on all of them to recognize, if it is important to you at the time or not (e.g. if you know you have to drive the highway 200km, you don't need signs marking directions to some place on 20'th km).
Title: Re: Lighting Upgrades in Small Towns Spelling the End for Old Mercury Vapor Installs
Post by: Silverliner14B on January 07, 2010, 02:35:58 AM
Well, mercury vapor lamps are considered obsolete by all the utilities so there will be more upgrades in the coming years. Even HPS is now obsolete in the city of Los Angeles as they are changing tens of thousands of HPS lights to LED.
Title: Re: Lighting Upgrades in Small Towns Spelling the End for Old Mercury Vapor Inst
Post by: Jace the Gull on January 07, 2010, 06:04:33 AM
more importantly...white lights should be used in local areas while HPS can be more suitable for highways or such...

I don't think it is safe to use lamps with too poor (below ~50) color rendering on highways, mainly in states using Vienna convention traffic signs (nearly all the world except North America), as their color coding help to quickly identify the category, so you don't have to focus on all of them to recognize, if it is important to you at the time or not (e.g. if you know you have to drive the highway 200km, you don't need signs marking directions to some place on 20'th km).

Well in MD...ALL highways and freeways except for most of I-95 are HPS....the I-95...the South of Baltimore City and North part of the City all of the highmasts are MH, except a few newer highmasts are HPS though....
Title: Re: Lighting Upgrades in Small Towns Spelling the End for Old Mercury Vapor Installs
Post by: mdschmier on February 12, 2010, 01:18:36 AM
Why can't they just replace the ballast and keep the fixture?
Title: Re: Lighting Upgrades in Small Towns Spelling the End for Old Mercury Vapor Installs
Post by: Medved on February 12, 2010, 02:42:55 AM
@mdschmier: Optical assembly has to match the light source (reflector designed for coated MV does not work correctly with clear HPS, etc), so together with the ballast the optical assembly would have to be replaced, what make this renovation of old, time spent lantern labor and even material expensive, so buying and installing new one become way cheaper.
Title: Re: Lighting Upgrades in Small Towns Spelling the End for Old Mercury Vapor Inst
Post by: Jace the Gull on February 13, 2010, 12:58:36 AM
In Frederick MD, they did keep the fixtures the clamshells and installed HPS retrofit lamps OR replaced the remote ballast with remote HPS and lamp setup...

I really truly believe if HPS is used in FCOs, they should be coated! I am always seeing FCO with clear HPS and some really looks bad lighting the road with 3 spots of lights.....what kind of distribution is that?! I mean new fixtures seems worse than the old ones which did a much better job...so how is this an upgrade?
Title: Re: Lighting Upgrades in Small Towns Spelling the End for Old Mercury Vapor Installs
Post by: mdschmier on February 13, 2010, 01:18:01 AM
There are a lot of places where they they retrofit the existing fixture instead of replacing it
Title: Re: Lighting Upgrades in Small Towns Spelling the End for Old Mercury Vapor Installs
Post by: Jace the Gull on February 13, 2010, 10:12:19 AM
There are a lot of places where they they retrofit the existing fixture instead of replacing it


Yeah like Frederick, Maryland....
Title: Re: Lighting Upgrades in Small Towns Spelling the End for Old Mercury Vapor Installs
Post by: Medved on February 14, 2010, 01:40:23 AM
@GullWhiz: I said "Lamp and optics has to match" and not "Take the cheapest lamp with cheapest optic"...
Title: Re: Lighting Upgrades in Small Towns Spelling the End for Old Mercury Vapor Installs
Post by: chapman84 on February 14, 2010, 04:08:41 PM
There are a lot of places where they they retrofit the existing fixture instead of replacing it


I've seen older Westinghouse Remote Ballast lights retrofiited to HPS and MH in Pittsburgh along time ago but many of them were replaced in 2005 during an upgrade.
Title: Re: Lighting Upgrades in Small Towns Spelling the End for Old Mercury Vapor Inst
Post by: Jace the Gull on April 09, 2010, 06:47:43 AM
@GullWhiz: I said "Lamp and optics has to match" and not "Take the cheapest lamp with cheapest optic"...

Frederick MD actually uses pricey HPS lamps LOL....they are HPS retrofits for MV ballasts AND if the ballasts were replaced with HPS but same fixture, they use Standby HPS lamps...(with two arctubes) and rest is same thing in all wattages.....I noticed their lamps were Sylvania's!
Title: Re: Lighting Upgrades in Small Towns Spelling the End for Old Mercury Vapor Installs
Post by: mercuryvaporrocks on April 15, 2010, 09:49:10 PM
I noticed in Shaler and Hampton Twp. that many of their mercury vapor streetlights have been disappearing year after year, it sure doesn't look too pretty at night there anymore. :(
Title: Re: Lighting Upgrades in Small Towns Spelling the End for Old Mercury Vapor Installs
Post by: mercuryvaporrocks on April 20, 2010, 01:48:08 PM
Well, mercury vapor lamps are considered obsolete by all the utilities so there will be more upgrades in the coming years. Even HPS is now obsolete in the city of Los Angeles as they are changing tens of thousands of HPS lights to LED.

Many municipalities also requested the upgrades by the utility companies.
Title: Re: Lighting Upgrades in Small Towns Spelling the End for Old Mercury Vapor Installs
Post by: Form109 on August 11, 2010, 10:26:51 AM
doesn't look like there's much that can be done for MV...its Pretty much toast..sorry to say.
 :'(
I Just Hope they Improve LED,Induction and Ceramic Metal Halide. :(
Title: Re: Lighting Upgrades in Small Towns Spelling the End for Old Mercury Vapor Installs
Post by: mercuryvaporrocks on August 25, 2010, 09:21:20 PM
And also none of the big major lighting companies are interested in mercury vapor lighting at all at this point so MV might succomb in the near future.
Title: Re: Lighting Upgrades in Small Towns Spelling the End for Old Mercury Vapor Inst
Post by: Silverliner14B on September 13, 2010, 04:24:26 AM
Its a matter of profits, I heard manufacturers make very little profit from mercury vapor lamps despite that such lamps make about 20% of HID lamp sales in the USA.
Title: Re: Lighting Upgrades in Small Towns Spelling the End for Old Mercury Vapor Installs
Post by: Form109 on September 19, 2010, 12:44:32 PM
Mercury Vapor makes 20 Precent of Sales Now....it was probably much Higher in Mercuries Heydey of popularity im sure.

im Pretty Sure HPS is the HID Lamp with the Highest Share as far as HID Sales go.
Title: Re: Lighting Upgrades in Small Towns Spelling the End for Old Mercury Vapor Installs
Post by: mercuryvaporrocks on September 23, 2010, 05:23:41 PM
I'm sure HPS lamps sales have gone up since the MV fixture ban in 2008 too.
Title: Re: Lighting Upgrades in Small Towns Spelling the End for Old Mercury Vapor Installs
Post by: Jace the Gull on September 23, 2010, 11:28:20 PM
maybe mostly for commercial...But residents...I think they mostly chose the 65 watt CFL or even MH....
Title: Re: Lighting Upgrades in Small Towns Spelling the End for Old Mercury Vapor Inst
Post by: Silverliner14B on September 29, 2010, 10:14:17 PM
In 1980 86% of street lights were mercury vapor!
Title: Re: Lighting Upgrades in Small Towns Spelling the End for Old Mercury Vapor Installs
Post by: Form109 on October 11, 2010, 11:22:56 AM
86 Precent?...that's pretty intreasting stats...thanks for that dave

nowadays its probably 20 Precent.

and Jace....i think 65 Watt Fluorescent is what they will choose....and metal halide

in my area lately ive noticed quite a few 175 Watt MV Blasters replaced with 65 Watt Fluorescent also seen some MH ones....people like the white light,HPS ones dont sell nearly as high around here.
Title: Re: Lighting Upgrades in Small Towns Spelling the End for Old Mercury Vapor Installs
Post by: mercuryvaporrocks on October 17, 2010, 01:11:52 PM
90% of power companies install high pressure sodium streetlights since most other light sources haven't been proven to be a suitable replacement for them, including induction and LED's.

As for mercury vapor streetlights, they're declining each year they fail and aren't nearly as popular as they once were and many of them have obliterated over the years during upgrades to HPS.     
Title: Re: Lighting Upgrades in Small Towns Spelling the End for Old Mercury Vapor Installs
Post by: Jace the Gull on November 01, 2010, 01:37:28 PM
90% of power companies install high pressure sodium streetlights since most other light sources haven't been proven to be a suitable replacement for them, including induction and LED's.

As for mercury vapor streetlights, they're declining each year they fail and aren't nearly as popular as they once were and many of them have obliterated over the years during upgrades to HPS.     

I have noticed and my lineman friend has confirmed that use of pulse start MH in 100 watt and 150  is INCREASING in MD for residential posttops... mostly in Baltimore area and the counties around it...