Gallery of Lights

Unrelated Stuff => Forum Games => Topic started by: Lil'Cinnamon on November 21, 2009, 12:05:42 AM

Title: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Lil'Cinnamon on November 21, 2009, 12:05:42 AM
Just chat about ANYTHING! whatever you want. you dont have to stay on topic.

So anyways:

How are you all?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Jace the Gull on November 21, 2009, 01:18:10 AM
I just absolutely love what you just made...all 3 of them in other chats! This can help relationship better. I have been in other forums like this!

I have been having some fun with a computer game called "The Sims 3" and I am also playing the expansion pack..
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: A_lights on November 23, 2009, 06:17:55 PM
That sounds fun Jace, I am uploading a pic or two here. This is a great idea,  8)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: lightman64 on November 23, 2009, 09:20:04 PM
Not to be rude, but who is Lil'Cinnamon? Did he/she go by another name on LG?
Thanks!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Vince on November 23, 2009, 09:59:51 PM
He's !KEDER on LG  ;D

Well, I am currently reading Wikis about lamp technologies, it's really cool!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Jace the Gull on November 24, 2009, 02:33:02 AM
He wanted to change his name in LG, but I wouldn't allow it since it would cause CONFUSION! Like just now Lightman64 did not know who he was! I donno if Brian in LG will allow him to change it.


Please CHOOSE carefully when making a screen name

I only change sign in names ONLY if there was VERY good REASON!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Jace the Gull on December 29, 2009, 10:08:57 AM
What are you guys thinking now? What did you guys get for Christmas?!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: RCM on December 29, 2009, 08:49:16 PM
ehh, stuff...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Jace the Gull on December 29, 2009, 09:59:18 PM
oh be more speicific than that...be less vague! ;-)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: A_lights on December 30, 2009, 04:16:05 AM
What I got for chrismass
probe start Mh ballast 150/175W
150W coated 3,400K phillips probe start lamp(should come in tommorow) on backorder)
Phillips 400W MV coated
skis W/poles
DB bike
2 ushio ccfl's
cross country varsity jacket
1 yellow hoodie
1 striped sweatshirt
Money$
I think that was it..
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Vince on December 30, 2009, 12:07:39 PM
I got an iPod Touch, very happy to have one, it's so cool! Now I can go on Gallery of Lights outside my house! (Where Wi-Fi is available). I also got some bucks, most likely for lamps  ;D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Lil'Cinnamon on December 30, 2009, 09:13:46 PM
Hi people.

*want's to role play*
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Jace the Gull on December 30, 2009, 10:13:00 PM
you should be able to upload pics from iPod Touch too!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Lil'Cinnamon on December 30, 2009, 10:29:17 PM
Not really. they don't have an SD card reader.

I will browse this site with my Ipod touch, not upload pics though.

plus they don't even have a camera!!!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Jace the Gull on December 31, 2009, 01:26:20 PM
Oh...oh well....I have the Android....it has a 5 MP camera on it!...I met up with FGS today.....FUN FUN FUN...he saw my new Android phone today! He also gave me 3 cool things, and I have him a cool thing...and surprised him with one thing.....hehehe
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Form109 on January 03, 2010, 04:18:40 PM
Well...ive been Hitting the Flea Makets mainly For Audio Parts lately....they have Two Shoplights i might Pick up though... ;D

on the Other Hand i Just Ordered over 150 Dollars Worth of Audio Parts over the internet.

Putting together a Groovin Sound System. :)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: A_lights on January 13, 2010, 01:26:29 AM
Currently cannot sleep, and I want to upload pics but the other computer is messed up. I have a lot of new interesting stuff!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Jace the Gull on January 13, 2010, 11:32:27 PM
hmmmm what's wrong with it???
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: A_lights on January 16, 2010, 10:20:38 AM
Gimp , that photo editer is not working, since i downloaded the 2010 version of linux, i could just use an online photo editer.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Jace the Gull on January 17, 2010, 02:14:12 PM
Ah...Linux! They are awesome.....Windows...nuh huh! but Macs THEY ROCK!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on January 18, 2010, 03:35:47 PM
I'm still using windows but I agree Macs and Linux are nice operating systems.

Anyways I'm looking around for road signs and highway markers for my road sign collection.  I have exams coming for me in school now though so I'll be quite busy for the next 2 weeks.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Lil'Cinnamon on January 24, 2010, 05:03:04 PM
Hey, Anyone even here?!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: RCM on January 24, 2010, 08:14:24 PM
I am! :D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on January 24, 2010, 09:24:17 PM
I also check in from time to time.  ;)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Lil'Cinnamon on January 24, 2010, 10:14:36 PM
Even though you are guest over half the time...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on January 24, 2010, 10:28:28 PM
Yeah, I usually don't login unless I have something to post or to upload. I do this this on most of the forum I've been to.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: lightman64 on January 25, 2010, 08:35:45 PM
Its kinda fun to log into Lighting- Gallery and see who is online and what they are looking at. Kinda stalker though...
I wonder why my cats like those Temptations treats so much. They probably have like MSG or something....
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: RCM on January 25, 2010, 11:57:25 PM
my cat LOVES those too! He's always begging me for them!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Lil'Cinnamon on January 29, 2010, 12:41:52 AM
Why does EVERY lighting person have a cat?! Am I the only one that has a DOG? (except FGS.)

It is like a commodity for everyone here LOL
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on January 29, 2010, 12:56:32 AM
Nah, I don't have a cat or a dog lol, so I'm also part of the group without a cat  :D

Cats and lighting must be connected somehow...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Jace the Gull on January 30, 2010, 04:41:26 AM
I have TWO cats and a dog....so I have a dog too......
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Vince on February 05, 2010, 12:41:59 PM
I have a cat, it broke an ALTO F34CW once (well, not a big deal LOL). There was a Sylvania F34 from the late 90s with it, but fortunately I placed it on the protected side, so the ALTO broke, but not the Sylvania.  ;D

I have a CGE F20T12/D now in service in my basement for a year (with pretty frequent use) and it still has no blackening yet! CGE made so good stuff back then...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: A_lights on August 08, 2010, 10:04:03 PM
im about to drink some iced tea and im just sitting here realizing ive sat ALL day and my summer is fading...........
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Jace the Gull on August 10, 2010, 08:24:14 PM
Most of what I did was work during the summer...I haven't swam in a swimming pool since 2 year ago!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: SeanB~1 on August 11, 2010, 03:49:14 PM
Bad gull, even the birds like to have a dip every now and then. Even the rescue dove I am hand feeding until it is old enough to fly away.

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Form109 on August 12, 2010, 02:01:13 PM
well if you havent Swam how do you Bathe Gull?

you must Reek Terribly. ;D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 11, 2010, 08:05:39 AM
 :D I'm just chillin' at 8:05AM with my 250w MH/MV wallpack running a metalarc.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Jace the Gull on December 11, 2010, 03:59:46 PM
I got a new computer!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: A_lights on July 26, 2011, 10:30:15 AM
@jace: what computer?

I got my extreme  gas scooter tire fixed, its great for riding around the subdivision on trash day looking for lights and lawn equipment!

What about everyone else? This off topic thing should be poplular lol
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Jace the Gull on July 26, 2011, 12:09:54 PM
Aaron, you are way 7 months too late but I did get a Cyberpower PC
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on July 26, 2011, 04:30:21 PM
I just got a new Acer laptop. ;D ;D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: A_lights on July 29, 2011, 03:56:41 PM
I got a quantaray tablet that runs google Android And I'm currenly using it right now!
And I got a bunch of used GTE/sylvania Circlines and GEs too! As well as a DX MV lamp , and 2 gas powered trimmers
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 10, 2011, 09:11:01 PM
He wanted to change his name in LG, but I wouldn't allow it since it would cause CONFUSION! Like just now Lightman64 did not know who he was! I donno if Brian in LG will allow him to change it.


Please CHOOSE carefully when making a screen name

I only change sign in names ONLY if there was VERY good REASON!

How come your forum name and gallery name are different?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Jace the Gull on August 12, 2011, 09:17:42 PM
Powerful Admins  :P ::)  Me and Vince have our real names posted.....and I haven't yet to make a code for gallery to show the real name....only the sign in name....

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 03, 2011, 07:38:12 PM
Can you do that to us too? :P ;D Please???? :MV: :MV: :MV:
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on October 03, 2011, 07:57:03 PM
Of course I can, :P Maybe I'll name you "joe_347v" ;D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 03, 2011, 08:17:11 PM
I name myself Mike. :P
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on October 03, 2011, 08:29:35 PM
Mike_277V then. :P
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 03, 2011, 08:47:05 PM
Mike_120v  :P
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on October 04, 2011, 08:50:48 PM
"Mike_120/208/240/277/347/480/600V" You're multitap ;D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 04, 2011, 09:02:32 PM
Ahg. Mike_mulitvolt :P :D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 29, 2011, 09:39:05 PM
As you know, my utility room and laundry/light room have T8 fluorescents. I hate the Lithonia one. It's cause so much trouble. :8) The American Fluorescent one is good stuff thoguh.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on October 29, 2011, 10:27:02 PM
The brand really doesn't mean anything IMO, I've had a cheapo American Fluorescent wrap that ate lamps and was cheaply made and I also had a well built Lithonia HO striplight.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 29, 2011, 10:29:32 PM
I know. It's just in how it was made. I don't like how the lamps are in series because when one goes out, so does the other. And on the AF one, I can run T12 on the ballast. ;D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on October 29, 2011, 10:31:04 PM
That's usually the sign of a cheapo ballast, high quality ones usually only run a small handful of lamps.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 29, 2011, 10:32:57 PM
It will only run F174T8 and F20T12. That's it.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on October 29, 2011, 10:34:48 PM
Yeah but since T8 and T12 have different voltage and current requirements most good ballasts don't run both types.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 29, 2011, 10:36:59 PM
Maybe it's not such a good ballast then. The fixture itself is better built though. Not as flimsy.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on October 29, 2011, 10:38:41 PM
Personally I'd either buy a more expensive fixture or get a older one from Restore and then clean it up nowadays.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 29, 2011, 10:40:48 PM
Me too. Or just buy an HID lowbay. :D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on October 29, 2011, 10:42:07 PM
Not really practical in a laundry room. :P
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 29, 2011, 10:46:10 PM
It's my light storage room too. :P ;D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on October 29, 2011, 10:50:02 PM
My lights are scattered around. :P
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 29, 2011, 10:55:05 PM
If my lights were scattered around I wouldn't have any. My mother is a "neat freak".
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on October 29, 2011, 10:57:21 PM
You should see my room. O_o
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 29, 2011, 11:05:07 PM
You would never know I collected lights by looking at my bedroom unless you knew what those colorful paper tas on my wall were lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on October 29, 2011, 11:07:20 PM
I have a couple of vintage BT lamps as decorations. :P
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 29, 2011, 11:09:13 PM
I have more traffic sign related items in my bedroom than lighting.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on October 29, 2011, 11:20:27 PM
I have four Ontario shields and one Interstate shield in my room. :P
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 30, 2011, 08:57:54 AM
I have random signs in my room. All my authentic signs are in my back yard. i have some faux copies of signs in my room thoguh.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on October 30, 2011, 12:00:32 PM
I keep all my road signs indoors, the ones that don't get hung go in a corner in the garage.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 30, 2011, 12:12:32 PM
I actually restored two of my No Parking signs. The letters were faded and unreadable.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 12, 2011, 12:55:47 PM
I just found out that my camera can take videos!! :o :D This server won't let me upload them though. :(
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on November 12, 2011, 01:25:22 PM
I've just found some old B2217s with PCs and a nice row of MERCURY VAPOUR B2227s, pics to come when I get home.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 12, 2011, 02:18:10 PM
I just ate lunch. :D Nothing special about waffles and blueberry yogurt through.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on November 12, 2011, 03:46:57 PM
Pictures are now and I also rearranged my streetlight albums a bit.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 13, 2011, 08:57:03 PM
I created some new albums and rearranged some pics too. I also have a new you tube account. ;D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: A_lights on November 19, 2011, 11:32:27 AM
At a robotics completion.  40% of the sylvania T8 lamps are burned out in this gym! :-\, possibly some ballasts too
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on November 19, 2011, 06:18:21 PM
I've noticed that one of the houses on my street has a cycling HPS wallpack.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 20, 2011, 08:08:10 PM
The lights on my street that were cycling have been fixed! They seem to be very yellowish....
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: A_lights on November 23, 2011, 07:44:48 PM
Its possible they are non cycling lamps,  or HG free as those do look  orange compared to a normal HPS
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 23, 2011, 07:52:20 PM
They're not non-cycling. My utilty is too cheap to use those. I think the lamps are GE. So most likely they're Ecolux.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on December 03, 2011, 12:49:14 PM
I just found a 175w merc Advance F can ballast. O_o
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 04, 2011, 03:09:32 PM
Where on earth did you find one of those?!?!?! :D :o :D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on December 04, 2011, 04:22:05 PM
Where on earth did you find one of those?!?!?! :D :o :D

I guess you didn't open my pic (http://www.galleryoflights.org/mb/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-9802)..... ??? :-\
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 04, 2011, 06:30:12 PM
You didn't link it before. I've been away this weekend until this morning, so I'm still tryign to catch up on the site's uploads.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on December 04, 2011, 07:27:01 PM
Didn't have the pic uploaded when I posted that comment, I was on my phone. :P
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 04, 2011, 08:33:32 PM
how would you've expected me to know then. :P
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on December 04, 2011, 09:37:15 PM
I've noticed you got rid of the green diamond. :P
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 04, 2011, 09:51:50 PM
I got rid of Michael Industries period. :P Just Michael Lighting now. Michael Electrical will be a sub-company under Michael Lighting now.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on December 04, 2011, 09:53:44 PM
It's still referenced in your website title. :P
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 05, 2011, 07:32:17 PM
Thanks for telling me that lol.  Just fixed it. ;D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on December 05, 2011, 11:01:14 PM
Thanks for telling me that lol.  Just fixed it. ;D

Now you have to remove the reference from your data sheets. :P
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 06, 2011, 05:21:15 PM
Right, but I'm not going to change the pics of them on here, just in my files. Right around the new year, I'll change "©2011 Michael Industries-Michael Lighting" to "©2012 Michael Lighting"
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on February 23, 2012, 04:13:37 PM
New find! I found this bad boy today, more
pics to come when I get on a computer.
(http://i560.photobucket.com/albums/ss50/joseph_125ON/Gallery%20of%20Lights/290faaaa.jpg)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 23, 2012, 05:02:54 PM
Sweet! :D You found a gumball- in a carriage! :o
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on February 23, 2012, 05:45:25 PM
Lol thanks Mike! and it's made by Powerlite too O_o
Oh and I think that was a old shopping cart. :P
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 23, 2012, 06:10:08 PM
Yep I know, but in RI most people call it a carriage. I know- weird eh?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on February 23, 2012, 06:45:45 PM
Ahh, I never heard them being called carriages here before. :P
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 23, 2012, 07:38:08 PM
Yep here's a pic of a Stop & Shop sign asking for carriages here  (http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn194/atfulcrum/stop%20and%20or%20shop/IMG00667.jpg)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on February 23, 2012, 08:58:40 PM
Interesting, and btw, I posted some pics of the gumball in my gallery. :incandescent:
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 24, 2012, 10:50:23 AM
Saw the pics. That's one cool gumball you have there. :D I just got some pics of the a street light dumpster in Massachusetts from Joe Maurath. i'll post 'em in a bit. Thankfully any mercs in good condition came out of the dumpster and home with Joe.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on February 28, 2012, 02:10:54 AM
I guess thanks lol, funny thing is I didn't even know Powerlite even made a gumball until that point.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 03, 2012, 09:59:50 AM
It wouldn't surprise me if they made clamshells too. 8)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on March 03, 2012, 12:16:21 PM
Yeah me too, in fact I only recently found out that they made fluorescent streetlights. (http://www.galleryoflights.org/mb/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-10437) :P
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 21, 2012, 09:11:27 PM
@streetlight98: I think T8 has some kinks to be worked out, as of yet
I need to expand my collection, would like to get more small (below 175w) HID lamps :MV: :hps:, and some vintage old household incandescent bulbs someday. Maybe a  :CCW: adapter or two.
By the way, does anybody else here like heavy equipment, mainly excavators? I do!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 22, 2012, 06:18:46 PM
Just finished a social studies project on Sarah Palin...

It feels like summer here with it topping above 75*F every day this week so far. :o Tomorrow will be the same but Saturday-Monday will be in the upper 50's and Tuesday in the upper 40's. Then after that it's back to 50's and 60's. Very pleasing weather and low humidity too which is great. I have a feeling it's going to be a cool(ish) and rainy summer though. :(
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on March 22, 2012, 06:20:51 PM
I think we hit 26 C/78 F today :o It's been a pretty warm week here too. I've wearing a T shirt and shorts for the past few days. :P
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 22, 2012, 06:30:45 PM
I never wore a long sleeve shirt at all this winter. I switched to shorts about a week ago since that when it started getting warm. Now that it's been warm for a few days now, the school is really holding in the heat.

The heat is oppressive at my school when it starts getting really warm. When it's been 85-95*F for a few days, the school can easily get up to 100*F on the second floor! :o
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 07, 2012, 11:06:41 AM
I just converted my trigger start closet light to preheat. :D Good news is that it's done and works. Bad news is that it's loose on the wall because the screws were only screwed into drywall and now I sort of made the hole too big. I used wider screws and that seemed to solve it though. The starter socket isn't lined up perfectly with the knockout, but I can still remove and install starters though. i used a Universal preheat choke that Aaron sent me as well as the Cooper starter he sent me. Pics to come soon. ;)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 14, 2012, 11:32:37 PM
That's really cool Mike!
Judging by our posts in "Guess the Song" I think Mike and I like the same kind of music...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on August 15, 2012, 12:41:43 PM
Hmm did you use drywall anchors when mounting the light back on Mike? I find that toggle bolts (http://www.ameribestfasteners.com/SPRING.gif) hold the most weight and are most commonly used to mount fluorescent fixtures but you can't reuse them since the toggle falls in the wall when you take them off. these (http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00gBKQabsqbVch/Plastic-Toggle-Bolt.jpg) and these (http://www.lemurzone.com/rfg/wp-content/uploads/walldriller.jpg) are also good since you can reuse them.

These (http://www.naturalhandyman.com/iip/inffastener/i/plastic1.jpg) work in a pinch but aren't that good for drywall since they tend to loosen up over time but they work fine in brick and concrete though.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 15, 2012, 03:00:02 PM
The light was actually mounted useing drywall screws. The only flaw was that it was drilled into the drywall and not a beam. Using a slightly wider screw seemed to do the job but i noticed it's sagging down a bit. I'll have to try those toggle screws. I think before i move out i'll reinstall the trigger start ballast though becuase i don't want to confuse any future homeowners lol.

BTW, Andy my favorite bands are Metallica, Avenged Sevenfold, Disturbed, Fear Factory , Mudvayne, Pink Floyd, Chevelle, Tool, and the Rolling stones (yeah i know odd for me to like the stones and pink floyd when all the other bands are heavy rock/metal LOL).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on August 15, 2012, 03:10:07 PM
Hmm if you're talking about these

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c8/Drywall-screws-v1_%281%29.png/320px-Drywall-screws-v1_%281%29.png)

Then they're not very good since they're supposed to be used to mount drywall onto the framing, I wonder why they didn't use drywall anchors or toggle bolts.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 15, 2012, 03:14:27 PM
Yep just like what you pictured. No juction box either. The wire enters a knockout on the back and has this black plastic crimp-type thing that keeps the wire from pulling out. It was a real "PITA" to take that light down lol. Also, how do you tighten those toggle screws? Won't the toggle just spin with the screw as you try to tighten it?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on August 15, 2012, 03:23:47 PM
Hmm, I like using the cable clamps with screws more rather than those plastic ring things, anyways you tighten the toggle screws by pulling them with one had while turning your screwdriver with your other hand.

A warning though, once you pop the toggle in you can't unscrew it without the toggle part falling into the wall so you'll have to get a new toggle every time you unscrew it.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 17, 2012, 02:32:00 PM
Yeah, I like a lot of 70s and 80s rock music, and some new stuff too.
Has anybody else had a song stuck in their head for days at a time?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 25, 2012, 09:01:32 PM
My collection is adding up! I have nine spare warm white GE MainLighters laying around and today I learned of a potential opportunity to get some fixtures or at least lamps/sockets/ballasts...I really need some F40T12 ballasts...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 26, 2012, 10:40:31 PM
i got an electric clock! :o ;D Made by GE with the oldish GENERAL (GE) ELECTRIC logo. :)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 27, 2012, 12:05:53 AM
Cool!
I fired up a 400w metal halide lamp today.  I also re-wired the Lithiona Hi-Tek highbay I fired it up in and need to replace the cords on the other two. 
IT'S BRIGHT! I will upload some pics of this beast!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on December 27, 2012, 01:38:13 AM
I got a new camera today. :P Hopefully my pictures will better from now on.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 27, 2012, 09:00:16 PM
Cool, I also got a new camera but my older one seemed better...
It's first video was a 400w MH firing up...but it came out poorly so before it gets uploaded to this site or YouTube or anything I might redo it...I might also do a video of a clear lamp firing up instead of the coated one...
I also might be getting some used magnetic HPF RS F40T12 ballasts soon...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 20, 2013, 08:03:22 PM
I have some lighting videos i posted in the "General Videos" section if you guys are interested. 8)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 22, 2013, 09:42:30 PM
In the last week I have acquired two florescent fixtures from my school...
It hasn't snowed lately and thankfully it's melted off for the most part but if it does snow more I plan to build a snow fort then try to knock it down...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on January 27, 2013, 02:42:08 PM
Relamped one of the kitchen lights today, one of the Philips F32T8/850 lamps I installed in mid 2009 did a EOL show before the ballast shut it off. Put an identical lamp in.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 27, 2013, 08:43:48 PM
Did it lose vacuum?
Today it snowed and I built some snow sculptures, they will probably meet a four-wheeler sometime soon...or melt...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: A_lights on February 03, 2013, 12:16:23 PM
today is a boring day, went to work and put up a bunch of sale stickers on the shelves that went ok, but now there is nothing to do! not even any lighting projects i have in mind and organized the room a bit, i did find a emergency back up ballast on ebay and it should be here tomorrow, and its brand is " PILA, 500" i just hope its not a pile of crap!  :P :P but it was $17 shipped to the door!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 04, 2013, 09:08:22 PM
I had to relamp my bathroom light, the Sylvania Octron 3500K F32T8 died, and I replaced it and the still-working (but blackened) GE EcoLux with post-EPACT, pre-2003 GE 34w Watt-misers...they seem to work fine on the F32T8 ballast but are noticeably dimmer than what they replaced...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 15, 2013, 08:27:28 PM
i installed my val-mount electric VAL-MISER ballast in my 1973 shoplite in place of the Univeral ballast to eliminate any PCB risk.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 15, 2013, 09:14:33 PM
Please tell me you're keeping that Universal as a backup!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 21, 2013, 07:10:34 PM
Of course i'm keeping it! :P i'll put it on display when i get my own house. 8) My grandpa has a bunch of display cases for his cars and he said i can have as many of them as i want (that is if i can drag them out of the basement lol) The display cases have very old preheat T12 and T8s in them that i'll remove from all the cases i don't take (he already gave me permission, though he said not to do it until he gets the cars out of the cases, which will be never lol) I'll only be taking one big case and maybe one small one.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 21, 2013, 08:52:33 PM
Yeah, that would be cool for displaying old stuff for sure!
You could even wire up that Universal (exposed wires so it's viewable) to a pair of era-appropriate lamps and have it hooked to power so you could fire it up occasionally!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 23, 2013, 05:40:59 PM
Yeah the display cases will be nice when/if i ever get them. Most have two F20T12s with preheat chokes while others have i THINK F64T8s? and one looks to have a 3 or four foot preheat T8. The T8s are blackenders while the T12s are just 90s lamps it seems.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 23, 2013, 06:39:31 PM
Regardless, they will be vintage someday!
I tried my previously-assumed-dead Advance ballast and I think it's officially toast...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 24, 2013, 04:10:00 PM
how is it's behavior? What do the lamps do? Try running the ballast for a couple hours straight and monitor the temperature of it. Has any tar leaked from it? If no tar has ever leaked and it doesn't run hot i hvae no clue why it's nead. Perhaps the starting cap died? ???
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on February 24, 2013, 07:05:34 PM
I just won a F40T12 two lamp preheat ballast!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 24, 2013, 09:42:51 PM
@Mike, nah it does nothing...time for the recycle pile I think...
@Jospeh, cool! What brand is it? How old?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 24, 2013, 09:57:38 PM
@ Joe Nice! Is it the GE ones that you pointed out to me?

@Andy; ahh yep sounds like it's no good except for display or as a paperweight lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 24, 2013, 09:59:15 PM
You forgot doorstop or area rug edge flattener...I've flattened a rug with that same ballast and another dead one before...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on February 24, 2013, 10:50:57 PM
It's a Universal #203 two lamp preheat ballast like these (http://www.lighting-gallery.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-58712)

It's NOS in original box too. It dosen't have thermal protection so I'm going to fuse it at 1A and use reset starters if I can find them. Also full power lamps only for this baby.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 25, 2013, 08:56:18 PM
Agreed. Don't let 34w lamps anywhere NEAR that thing LOL...
Universal sure made some pretty cool ballasts!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 02, 2013, 11:49:24 AM
yeah universal was pretty cool back then!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 02, 2013, 12:23:01 PM
Here's an off-topic one...yesterday I did that "Incandescent Florescent Ballast" test. I used an EOL Sylvania Design 50 F15T8 (look in my gallery) that I had/have laying around that wasn't dong much of anything since it was/is EOL and strobes/rectifies on the proper preheat ballast.  So I wired up a test thingy with a duplex receptacle where the ballast would be in a normal "choke" type preheat setup, and a very well-used/worn-out On Guard FS-2 starter that was very slow/weak with the proper ballast/lamp. I first tried it with a 1960s-70s era 15w Sylvania incandescent bulb (see my gallery) as the ballast, then a 40w 130v bulb, a 40w 120v GE bulb, a 60w 130v bulb, a 60w 120v Western Family bulb, a 75w SLI/EXTRALIFE inside frost bulb, a 100w 130v bulb, and a 100w 120v bulb.  I only got a clicking starter, flickering incandescent, etc. with anything below a 130v 75w bulb, which after much blinkage/rectification finally lit (albeit dimly and rectifying). A 75w 120v GE bulb seemed about right.  A 100w incandescent works perfectly, although likely a bit overdriven since it quickly triggers the (normally slow/weak) starter and lights the tube brightly.  It doesn't even seem to be rectifying.
I also tried it with 100 mini christmas lights with flasher bulbs and that was interesting!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on March 05, 2013, 04:06:01 PM
Well, my preheat ballast just came in today, pics to come when I get home. xP
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 05, 2013, 04:34:58 PM
Hmm. I came home from school yesterday and was told that my aunt's dad was cleaning out his father's house and has some goodies i may like. :D I don't know what they are. They could be a few modern incandescents or a Westie LifeGuard for a yard blaster in the back or heck, maybe even an NOS cobrahead that was going to be used as a yardlight but was never installed. Anyways, it's probably incandescent lamps but nonetheless, I can't wait to find out what it is! I have no clue when I'll get it though since i don't often see them, but you'll know when i get it since I'll be posting pics. ;) 8)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 05, 2013, 11:29:25 PM
Cool, hope it's some goodies!
I fired up the 2005 Philips 400w MH lamp I was given a couple days ago for the first time earlier today.  It's nice and bright! Needless to say my Lithiona Hi-Tek highbay has a new lamp now; I'm going to use it most of the time instead of the used/who knows how old lamp I was using (well actually at least a dozen used lamps but I was using one in particular.
The last few days have been good for lighting acquisitions...two LOA 22w circline adapters, (one NOS with original box, one lampless but I tested it with an ACE cool white lamp and it works), two fake-Westinghouse GU24 CFL porch lights (one of which I'm in the process of converting to E26 screw), a 15w Sylvania incandescent identical to the one I have posted in my gallery, a 15w vintage GE bulb, a post-October-2003 GE cool white 34w Watt-Miser, and of course the 400w MH lamp and lots of other vintage bulbs like old CFLs (Osram, MaxLite, LOA, etc), and other goodies!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on March 06, 2013, 12:12:44 AM
Well, normally I would assume it's just a bunch of light bulbs but with the stuff in your family it could be anything. Maybe even a unused T17 fixture O_o. Anyway I hope you get some good stuff.

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 06, 2013, 08:51:48 PM
Hope it's a T-17 fixture too!
I have a near-EOL GE F40CW that has very black ends/worn phosphor and you can even see one electrode and the mercury discharge!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 07, 2013, 09:32:56 PM
I think I'd pass out if an NOS T17 was revealed to me. :o :D Heck there's two in my family and that's a real rarity. :o It's kinda cool how there's all these vintage fluorescents in my family. I guess it makes for a really easy way to get vintage fluoros lol. To think back in their heyday most of the fixtures were just residential grade stuff (excpet the T17s and F40 industrials in my grandpa's garage which are definetly high-grade) but now they're all industrial grade compared to the tin foil on the market now. I have no clue what kind of lighting surprise awaits but I'll be happy even if it's just a few store brand incandescents. I don't want to get my hopes up too much since I don't want to be let down when it's not a T17 lol.

Oh BTW, i forgot to mention that I converted the chandelier in my grandparent's dining room from 40W incandescent to 43W halogen with my four pack of Sylvania supersavers. I removed four working GE 40W soft whites. They look rather recent but the bulbs haven't been changed in a while. My grandma was complaining about the dining room being too dim and my grandpa didn't want to use more electricity with 60W lamps since that's 80W more, so i installed my 43W halogens which are actually too bright for the room, so the dimmer is set between 2/3 and 3/4 which means they save more energy than originally and the lamp life is longer.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 08, 2013, 12:19:25 AM
I had to replace a florescent tube today...a GE F40CW with heavy end banding started acting up in my Sears shoplight. I replaced it with a warm white GE Mainlighter and the F40CW is now running in the fixture with the .77 amp Advance ballast and seems okay, but I suspect it's days are numbered!
I also installed a few CFLs at my house recently.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 09, 2013, 07:44:00 AM
How old was the F40CW?

Okay, i got the stuff last night and you will not BELIEVE what i got!!!! :o Yes, it's three inandescent lamps, but the KIND of lamps is beyond my wildest expectation! :D Pics to come. 8)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 09, 2013, 01:22:22 PM
It has the GENERAL (GE) ELECTRIC etch and isn't a Mainlighter (oh how I wish I had a cool white Mainlighter; all mine are warm white) so I'm guessing somewhere in between 1985-1992.
It's still working okay in the fixture from my school with the .77 amp Advance ballast (which will also allow rectification (and maybe mercury migration??).
The Mainlighter I replaced it with is (according to Dave Silverliner) from May of 1979 and made at the Jackson, Mississippi factory if I remember correctly...I have another date code I need to post and have dated...if you want a "big-3" (GE, Sylvania, Westinghouse/Philips) post a pic of it's etch (and preferably endcap) on LG and somebody will probably respond with a date...
My three vintage florescents (the two lights from my school and the Sears shoplight) will go with me when I move out for sure!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on March 09, 2013, 10:04:23 PM
Yeah, I'm surprised where they found the stuff from, especially that neon lamp and that 250v bulb.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 11, 2013, 07:26:38 PM
Me too! I need to post my 15w GE that looks vintage sometime...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: A_lights on March 11, 2013, 10:35:15 PM
i saw a 277V Damar incandescent on LG , talk about an odd ball
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 12, 2013, 04:35:14 PM
277V, that must be pretty dim on 120V :o :P
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 12, 2013, 10:14:10 PM
Yeah, I bet!
I saw an interesting "mod" in an overhead projector today at school- someome had stuck a movie light in there with one 15w Sylvania bulb like the two I have. Of course it didn't work all that well! Found it funny, though!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on March 12, 2013, 10:33:06 PM
Apparently Sylvania (http://www.elightbulbs.com/Sylvania-13397-100A21-277V-A21-Light-Bulb) makes them too.

I guess 347v incandescents aren't made though. I think code dosen't allow them since the voltage is too high. :P
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 13, 2013, 10:12:29 AM
Why, is there a danger of it exploding or something?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 13, 2013, 03:44:26 PM
i bet a 347V lamp on 120V will last a LOOOOONG time! And be very dim and inefficeient too.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 13, 2013, 07:28:56 PM
How about an "extended life" one of those?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 14, 2013, 04:25:18 PM
that'd last so long i don't think you could measure its life!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 14, 2013, 11:10:55 PM
Dave Silverliner has an Eternity 56,000 hour bulb and it's 120v...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 15, 2013, 02:59:53 PM
Must be a 277V lamp or somethign rated at 120V. 56000 hours! :o try comparing that to any other lamp type! That's the good thing about incandescent; you can virually make it last and long as you want by operating it on a lower voltage. Granted it's not as efficient, but when you have a chandelier over a staircase i think you'd choose a 105W 56000 hour lamp over a 23W 10000 hour lamp if you're the one who has to change the light bulbs. Or you could be like my family and just not ever use the light over the stairs so we don't ever have to change the bulbs lol. It's probably been used only a few hours in the 9 years the house has been around lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 16, 2013, 12:06:33 PM
Any idea what bulbs are in that light?
I put in a warm white GE  Mainlighter today...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 16, 2013, 03:11:26 PM
either 40 or 60W soft white lamps. i think 60W... I don't know the brand though but I assume all the lamps are the same brand.

The preheater in the bathroom at my grandpa's shop has two GE pre ecolux cool white lamps. They say F40T12 but i didn't realize that the 34W lamps say F40T12 instead of F34t12. >:( seems too confusing. anyways, i'll have to check to make sure they're not 34W. :o
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 16, 2013, 05:39:30 PM
Do they have the "Big Meatball" etch still with the F40CW ordering code/ no encircled "E"? That means they're pre-EPCAT.
Or do they have the GENERAL(GE) ELECTRIC etch? Or better yet, Mainlighter?
One way to figure out if the lamps are 34w is if they flicker/swirl/striate when cold. Is it somewhat chilly in there? (60F or below)? If so, the characteristic flickering of 34 watt tubes should be noticeable. 
Yes, ordering codes on florescent tubes can be VERY confusing! My post-EPACT, pre-2003 GE 34w Watt-Misers have this ordering code (I THINK): F40CW/RS/WM. And just today I found out from your "Operating T8s on T12 ballasts" thread in the forum that 34w tubes are halophosphate; the encircled E means it's post-EPACT, when the rule was either high CRI or reduced wattage.

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 16, 2013, 09:32:39 PM
they had the meatball logo. it was either really big or smaller... the etch was black but that's all i remember. they are newish lamps IIRC as one lamp used to be out. Does GE still make any black etched lamps or are they all green etched?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on March 16, 2013, 10:06:22 PM
Non-Ecolux lamps are still black etched and the Reveal fluorescents have blue etches.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 17, 2013, 12:55:30 PM
they still make non-eco fluorescent lamps? i thought all of their lamps were eco now. So they make non-eco HPS lamps too? does phillips make non-alto HPS lamps?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on March 17, 2013, 01:18:15 PM
Well, I think GE's HO/VHO, preheat T5, T17, and SL (other than 8') lamps are still non-eco

I'm not sure if anyone still makes the non-eco HPS lamps though.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 17, 2013, 02:05:42 PM
ahh what about the 4ft lamps?

Also, do you know how long the f32t8 philips lamps have been Alto?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on March 17, 2013, 08:19:53 PM
I'm not quite sure about 4' lamps but I think high CRI, blacklight, and other specialty 4' lamps might still be full mercury.

Not sure when the F32T8s became Alto but my guess is sometime between '96 and '99.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 17, 2013, 08:50:19 PM
I think specialty lamps are still full-mercury except for plant tubes...
Imagine specialty tubes in 34w versions...or F40T12s and F34T12s with 2700K triphosphors like spiral CFLs?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: A_lights on March 20, 2013, 01:08:44 AM
hey mike, i think the F32T8's became alto around 1998, the early ones had the ALTO vertical etched
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 20, 2013, 01:46:02 PM
ahh. i'm trying to figure out how old the altos in my cousin's grandma's garage are since they're 32W altos in a 10-pack next to four shoplite boxes with three shoplites, the fourth shoplite had already been installed.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 22, 2013, 09:26:35 PM
A pic of them might help...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: A_lights on March 23, 2013, 12:38:03 AM
Lol so much for an off topic category  :P
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 23, 2013, 04:41:11 PM
LOL it said chat about anything, so...
I ran my (nearly NOS) 400w Philips metal halide lamp for about half an hour last night and it got pretty bright! It also cleaned up the arctube from the last time it ran; the middle seems clearer.  Maybe all the halide salts/gases are getting vaporized, etc?
It starts out a dim blue-green with the electrodes glowing like an incandescent lamp, then goes to this stage where it's the blue-green-white of a clear mercury vapor lamp and about (my estimate) about as bright as a 175w mercury vapor lamp, stays there for awhile, then goes to this yellowish-orange (warmer than incandescent but cooler/whiter than HPS) then eventually shifts to the final warmish-white color. 
It's ran less than an hour for it's whole life I'm sure.  I plan to fire it up on it's "birthday" (sleeve says it was manufactured April 25, 2005). So for it's 8th birthday I plan to fire it up, even if for only a few minutes.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on March 23, 2013, 06:58:18 PM
Went to Restore (again) and picked up an odd G36T6 and a GE Canada F15T12 with the old style etch. Also picked up a Philips full power RS ballast.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 23, 2013, 08:48:58 PM
Congrats on your ReStore finds, can you post pics of the F15 GE and Philips ballast please?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 24, 2013, 12:01:45 PM
nice restore finds! i plan to go back to them over april vacation. 8)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 24, 2013, 07:02:56 PM
You should. BTW, I got a GE preheat Compax CFL today!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 24, 2013, 08:27:27 PM
cool! post a pic! ;D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 25, 2013, 10:50:35 PM
I posted one for you, and another one of it compared to the GE FLB/17 I already had for awhile.  Check my gallery (on here of course and it's posted on LG too).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 26, 2013, 10:37:21 PM
I got another table lamp today which had a 5000K Satco 13w spiral CFL.  It came from the same house as another table lamp and my Sears shoplight. 
That house used to belong to one of my current teachers, and another dear friend (whom I haven't seen in a couple years now) also lived there at one time.  It's being demolished around April 8th and I went back there today (I know the owner and the people who are taking everything re-usable out of there first).  I knew the house was going to be demolished sometime within the next couple years but today I learned that it was coming down on the 8th of next month and so I went by there today on the way home from school since time is running out (March 26 right now as I type this) so I have a couple weeks still to save anything I want.  I plan to go back there soon with some basic tools to save a couple other lighting-related items and a few other items since I have many memories in said house and spent lots of time there.  I'd love to save a few old doors/windows (house was built in 1979 I'm told but was built with lots of reclaimed materials). and other things like the (beautiful) kitchen sink and some other light fixtures but I doubt I'll be able to save stuff like that. I'm glad I have the things I have already saved, though, if nothing else.
This is kinda like going to the (since demolished) house I used to live in (the one I talk about on here that was built in 1955 and had a ton of old wiring).
Oh, and ever hear the phrase, "Craigslist on the Curb" (obviously people who are moving or remodeling putting stuff out on the curb for free for the taking before taking it to the dump, etc.). Well I will call this, "ReStore on the Rebound"!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 29, 2013, 10:18:35 AM
Ooo sounds like you got some nice stuff! So far no news on any new finds for me though today or tomorrow i'll be trying my M-250A on the pole with the shorter arm. I'll see if it'll hold with the ballast and glass lens. if it doesn't cope with the glass lens I'll try the yellowed FP lens or the AEL lens. If not the light will come back in with me and I'll consider remote ballasting my friend's M-250R2 if his family lets me have it... surprisingly my mom is fine with me getting both the light and arm. :o
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 29, 2013, 10:27:48 AM
Cool! Remote-ballasting any light might help reduce weight...is it doing to be in dusk-to-dawn service or on a switch?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 29, 2013, 03:45:00 PM
well, it has a PC on it but it will plug into an outdoor outlet so it'll only be on when we have parties (and when i feel like going out to turn it on lol). it seems too hold well with the ballast and a plastic lens. Hopfully i can get the M-250R2 from my friend. i'll mount that on here instead with a plastic lens. The ballast on this light is the real weight to it. The pole was okay. then i installed the powr/door and the thing started leaning lol. I kept swapping around the lenses and  decided on the M-250R2 lens i had laying around.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 29, 2013, 10:19:25 PM
Eventually I would hardwire it to a switch inside the house if I were you...maybe the same switch as your 70w MH/100w MV deck light? But who am I to say that when my MV yard light is wired to a cord, then plugged into an extension cord, and has a shattered diffuser held together with Tvvek tape? :8)
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on March 30, 2013, 12:59:51 PM
trust me, i'd love to but i've been told not to "screw around with the house's connections" many times lol. there's no easy way to hook it up to the same switch as the 70W MH light. it's jsut easier to plug it in.

I'll ask my parents if i can leave it plugged in 24/7 and just install an open cap (which does the opposite of a shorting cap) and install a PC when the light is in use. i can change the PC from the deck so i don't need a ladder. so it's actually easier than going to plug or unplug it. not sure if they'll let me though. they might say it's "unsafe" or they might stick with the impression that if it's plugged in, it's using electricity. :(
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 30, 2013, 07:13:42 PM
Don't regular PCs use a little bit of power even when they've turned the light off during the daytime?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 30, 2013, 07:52:32 PM
when they turn off the light is the only time they're using power IIRC. for electronic PCs it's like 0.0001W.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 30, 2013, 07:59:21 PM
How much does a regular thermal relay time-delay PC draw?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on March 30, 2013, 08:33:41 PM
The Intermatic ones (http://www.intermatic.com/~/media/Intermatic/Documentation/Specifier%20Guide/053LC4500%20Series2pg.ashx) draw less than 1w apparently.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 30, 2013, 09:13:01 PM
those PCs would be much more sensitive if they had clear windows. >:(
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 31, 2013, 11:15:49 AM
I agree...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 31, 2013, 08:30:15 PM
Okay, so you'll NEVER guess what i came accross! So my aunt and uncle just bought a new house. it's really gross as the previous owners really didn't keep up with it. But as for lights: FIVE two lamp reflector preheater lights! and one two lamper F20 preheater!!! WOW and i think they're giving me all of them when they remodel the basement! only one works right and only has one lamp. all the others are either totally unlit or disconnected. one has a pair of lamps that strobe badly and don;t stay lit. most lamps are sylvania lifelines.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on March 31, 2013, 09:14:18 PM
:o :o Cool! It seems your family tend to have a thing for finding vintage lights. :P If you get to keep them are you going to restore each light?

Anyway I would also like to see some pics of the lights too. If I come across a suitable reflector light, I might stick my preheat ballast in there and convert it to preheat. I'll probably also drill holes for the starter sockets too.

As for me, I went to Restore recently and picked up a extra mogul socket. I also got some parts at HD and added a backlight (like on the trains) for my subway map. It uses T5 lamps though as T12/T8 magnetic fixtures would have been too bulky. :P
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on March 31, 2013, 09:33:21 PM
yeah i was like "Holy $&!%!" There seem to be different versions too. Two of the F40 fixtures have both lamps and don't flicker or even hum to by knowledge. i think those two are disconnected. One has one good lamp and one missing lamp. One has both lamps and both lamps flicker and the starters go "ping ping ping" and the fixture acts as if the lamps are dead even though there's barely any blackening in the ends. The last F40 fixture has both lamps gone, one socket broken, and i have a bad feeling the ballast leaked as there's a dark atain on the reflector in the center about the size of a ballast. But the tar can't stain though sheet metal, can it? :-\ lastly, there's a two lamp F20T12 half piper/strip light. it doesn't appear to even be wired in. There's a cable coming from it but it goes into the wall and (i think) comes back out and the cable is cut clean.

I asked my uncle and aunt to please not throw out any of the lights. I told them that if they don't want them i'll gladly take them all and if they do want them i'll do wahtever it takes to get them working again. Since the lights are a tad rusty and worn, yeah all the ones that have good ballasts and wiring will be restored. Any bad ones will be restored afterwords if i can find decently priced replacement parts. i took pics with my mom's phone but some of the pics are really dark since the basement is pretty dim. There are four incandescent pull-chains in addition to the fluoros and they all work except one, which has a 13W CFL ironically. i'll get the pics up here ASAP. either tomorrow or later in the week depending on home work and such. It kinda bothers me to see the lights left neglected like that and it broke my heart to leave without the lights in the trunk lol.

that backlight sounds cool! can you post a pic? 8)


BTW, i went to my cousin's house and peeked in their grandma's garage. the T8 altos in the box are from April 2003 (D3) and do have the shield logo on them. the box is green and says "contractor's pack".
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on March 31, 2013, 09:59:54 PM
Ahh cool, looking forward to any updates you have regarding the lights. As for the one with the spot, tar shouldn't stain through metal so I guess it's one of those black spots you seen on old well used fluorescent fixtures. Usually they're over the sockets though. Oh and don't worry about any dead ballasts, a lot of preheat F20 and F40 parts are still plentiful on eBay.

PS I posted a pic of said backlight. :P
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on April 01, 2013, 03:07:43 PM
Ahh okay. it just alarmed me becuase it's right about where the ballast should be mounted. i did post some pics but by the time you read this you would've probably already seen them...

If the F20 fixture is bad, no prob. i have plenty of chokes but i really don't want to spend 25 bucks on a preheat ballast. maybe someone on the LG would have a spare ballast but I'd want full leads, no chopped up leads. anyways, i'll cross the ballast bridge when i come to it. what are the odds of them failing anyways? higher or lower than RS? they look rather neglected. :( >:(

i find it interesting how (i think) every fixture is different. I don't think there are two that are of the same design. i could be wrong though...

I may consider selling some of them. the ones with bad ballasts (if any have them) will be the first to go if i lack the heart to hang on to them. shipping a 50" or so box would be pricey though and I'm not sure how well our wondeful friends at the USPS will handle a box that large. :8) :P i know you want a F40 housing for your preheater ballast so tune into your PM since i have an offer for you. ;) ;D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 02, 2013, 10:10:31 AM
That's really cool! If I lived in the area I'd ask for one/buy it from you...unfortunately I'm simply too far away.
Good luck though! What sort of lamps are you putting in there when you're done?
Title: Reply: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on April 02, 2013, 04:15:38 PM
i don't know. i won't be the one removing them so it's up to whomever does the job. I suggested stripping out all the existing lighting circuts and running a new circut with two lamp f32t8 strip lights. that'd make the basement nice a bright and a new circut would make it much cleaner looking too since right now there's one JB light on a switch, three pull chain JB lights, a separate room with three fluorescent lights on two different circuts (one works with only one lamp) and then there's two more over a work bench on the other side. then there's a lonely F20T12 fixture over in the corner. the corner diagonally across from the F20 fixture over where the finished room is, is pitch dark with no light over there.

I figure 10 F32T8 fixtures would light up the basement fine but it's not up to me. my uncle did say the pull chains will be rewired to be controlled by one switch but said nothing about totally redoing the lighting though. i'm pretty sure they're getting rid of the fluorescents though.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 02, 2013, 08:57:37 PM
Well, even if they keep them maybe you can relamp them?
Of course, I hope they eventually make their way into the hands of us collectors..
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on April 02, 2013, 09:49:36 PM
i don't think they're gonna keep them. if they were to i'd service them like they were my own, all of them getting fresh lamps and manual reset starters and fixing the broken socket on the fixture that has one.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 02, 2013, 10:07:25 PM
Yeah, I'd do the same. Hope you get them though!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 04, 2013, 10:11:21 PM
I'm in the process of converting one of my "Old-School" fixtures from 2-lamp to 3-lamp.  I'll post pics....
I also got another vintage GE Chroma 50 lamp, so now I have a pair to run in that fixture (which it's running).  Awesome color, albeit sorta dim though...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 05, 2013, 09:28:00 PM
nice! i'm going to the ReStore tomorrow so who knows what i'll find! I haven't had luck finding anything HID yet, but I've scored pretty well with fluorescents and incandescents. I'll bring my phone for pics too.

Also, I think I'm going to get that flush mount drywall troffer type light with the drop lens just for the good ballast and the drop lens. It's only $5 so there's no reason not to get it. I won't be keeping the fixture though since it's supposed to be installed recessed into a drywall ceiling and it'd look bad otherwise. it has a bonusline ballast so the ballast itself is well worth the $5.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 06, 2013, 12:49:43 PM
Cool! Get that Bonusline ballast for sure! Now you just need a nice pair of GE Mainlighters to run on that ballast!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 06, 2013, 07:53:34 PM
well, turns out the ballast is a dud. :( the donater obviously jsut wanted to get rid of the fixture as the restore says that people shouldn't donate non-functioning equippement. well, for five bucks i guess it's worth the eight sockets, the lens, and the ballast for display purposes...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on April 06, 2013, 08:18:12 PM
Ahh too bad, at least the parts are still worth five bucks though. Most places here sell sockets for $4 per two pack and at least you scored a coolish drop dish lens with it too.

I also went to Restore today, I got a new F32T8 wrap to replace the one in my room which had a broken diffuser, a MR-16 halogen adapter and a 4100K F21T5 to swap out the 3000K one behind my subway map.
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on April 06, 2013, 09:08:19 PM
i was going to snoop through some other stuff but some lady was eyeing the three fixtures so i made my priorety to get the fixtures and leave lol. There were two LOA shoplites less the lamps too which i left alone lol. they were opened up so i got to look inside. nothing special lol. At the restore i opened up the two reflector strips i bought today and when i saw the green universal label i was like like yep! mine! ;D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on April 07, 2013, 11:03:50 AM
Yeah, I probably would have went back in after buying the fixtures and putting them in the trunk just to check the ballast and lamp bins for any goodies.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 07, 2013, 12:40:24 PM
Yeah, when I helped remove the two fixtures from my school and saw the Universal Therm-O-Matic and Advance Kool-Koil ballasts I went totally Gull on those lights...
You could always go back for the LOA shoplights...they would be good fixtures to trade for vintage preheat and rapid start lights...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 07, 2013, 02:36:22 PM
they don'e sell spare ballast at my restore. i did look quickly at the lamp bin and there was nothing special besides the 3500K philips lamp i bought.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on April 07, 2013, 07:30:09 PM
Ahh, some Restores here have a bin of ballasts with loose ballasts they got or from damaged fixtures they scrapped. Some don't have the bin and keep the ballasts in the bin with the wiring devices.

The Restore I went to yesterday didn't have a ballast bin though. They have some interesting Duro Test stuff, and some odd length HO lamps.
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on April 07, 2013, 08:38:58 PM
Yeah my ReStore doesn't have too much when it comes to spare lighting parts. normally when i want a part like a ballast or even just sockets, I'll buy a whole fixture and junk what i don't want. usually the fixtures are so affordable it's still cheaper than buying the small parts at the bigger stores. i thought they had wire-on plugs but they don't... their fluorescent stuff is pretty cheap always but the incandescent fixtures are pretty pricey IMO. usually 20-50 bucks. i was going to get pics too buy my phone conveniently died on me. >:( :8)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on April 07, 2013, 09:05:08 PM
Ahh, I noticed fluorescent fixtures selling at the 5 to 20 range over here, ballasts are usually 5 to 10, sockets are usually 1-2.
Incandescent and halogen fixtures can vary from 5 to 50. Fluorescent lamps are usually 1-2 and incandescent can range from 50 cents to 2 per pack.

As for HID, the lamps are usually 5 bucks, ballasts 10-15, and fixtures 10-30.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 07, 2013, 11:02:34 PM
Cool, did you get the Duro-Test stuff?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 08, 2013, 02:22:59 PM
ahh here the shorter fluorescent tubes (I've never seen anything over 2ft for sale) and loose incandescents are always 25 cents a piece while lamps in boxes are usually from 50 cents to 5 bucks depending on the lamp count.

 Here's my ReStore.  (http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=qx69cr90xn5z&lvl=19.8&dir=358.76&sty=b&form=LMLTCC) it's the two story white building.

 here's the streetview of it.  (https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=41.442008,-71.63161&spn=0.000546,0.001321&t=h&z=20&layer=c&cbll=41.441922,-71.631801&panoid=P0yGEmttdE7aKvx6Bfbvmw&cbp=12,79.79,,0,-3.29)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 08, 2013, 07:14:30 PM
Cool, is the store on both floors of the building?
How often do you schedule trips to the ReStore?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on April 08, 2013, 08:23:00 PM
Interesting, never seen a Restore like that before. There's quite a few of Restores in my area. and I usually go there about once every two or three weeks.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 08, 2013, 08:38:48 PM
yep, the restore is both floors plus the basement. so three floors in all. they sell kitchen appliances, toilets and sinks, furniture, antiques, lighting and electrical, tools, paint (not spray paint though) lumber, and hardware too like door knobs, bolts, handles, hinges, etc.

I go about every-other month. I'd liek to go more often but i'm usually pretty busy plus i don't want to bug my parents too much. usually on vacations I go so maybe towards the end of next week I'll go again since I'll be off for the week. gotta get crackin on the world history project though if i don't want to take the course again next year though... :( I'll probably get more 13W PL adapters. other than that, unless they get new stuff, I've bought pretty much everything of interest lol.

btw, i reported a dim M-250A2 100W MV FCO and it got fixed! it seems the lineman broke the flat glass though as there is a cooper OVZ lens in it. The OVZ lens looks REALLY COOL in the M-250A2. I'll have to get a pic!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 10, 2013, 08:19:06 PM
They're tearing down the house I saved my Sears shoplight and a few other lighting goodies from by hand and I scored some free used building materials...ReStore/craigslist right on the curb! Old windows (which will become cold frames) good 2X4s, tongue&groove paneling, etc.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 12, 2013, 01:57:09 PM
UGHHH! this is one of those days i wish i never got out of bed. :( Man i feel like an idiot, an a-hole, a feak, whatever! ugh well i have a week to sleep it off and think it though...


Anyways, in response to what you posted Andy, sounds like there's a lot of cool stuff in that house (well, used to be part of the house...) Lots of stuff can be salvaged and reused from other people's remodels and demolitions. Some stuff just needs to be saved before the construction beins though like lamps and light fixtures since usually the fixtures are left mounted when buildings are torn down and even mercury containing lamps! definetly not safe! most of the time fixtures are simply delamped though and maybe ballast torn out if it contains PCBs.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 12, 2013, 07:27:13 PM
Haha today I was there again and found a broken CFL :lol:
Yeah, I helped today and we got (in maybe an hour tops?) almost the whole first floor knocked down (interior walls and upper floor already removed;) kicking walls over was easy! There was a bay window that was a PITA to tear out, though...and amazingly no windows broke in the process and when we tried to break one it resisted us for awhile, even with a MONSTER crowbar thing.
LOTS of ugly wallpaper, linouleum, rigid foam insulation, and particleboard (NOT OSB) came out of there! In three days, a two-story, 4 bedroom house is down to floor level.
I spent quite a bit of time in this house, and it was ironic that I was swinging a sledgehammer on the walls of the room I probably spent the most time in.
LOTS of lumber is being salvaged though...although probably 90% went on a bonfire (it's so wet here that backyard burning isn't a problem).
Do you want to see pics? I can post some...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 13, 2013, 10:23:51 PM
nice! sure pics are always cool! yout can either post them here or link to them if you posted them elsewhere. 8)

I'm going to try and go back to the ReStore sometime this week. We'll see... I don't know if i'll have time. i am on vacation this week though.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on April 13, 2013, 11:38:30 PM
Well, I went to Restore on Saturday again, all my finds are posted in the gallery except for a couple of 1/2" conduit stubs I also got.

Found some old F40 and 110W HO ballasts too, didn't buy them though since I have a lot in storage.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 14, 2013, 10:09:42 AM
Ooo some nice finds! Can you post a pic of a vintage (40s-60s) two lamp F96 HO ballast? I'm curious as to how large the ballasts in my grandpa's HO lights are. about the size of a T17 ballast? I was blown away by the size of that thing when i opened it up in 6th-7th grade. :o
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 14, 2013, 10:55:52 AM
LOL I bet they're huge!
I'm restoring my Sears shoplight after helping tear down the house it came out of.  So far I've sanded down the reflector.  How do you date GE Bonusline ballasts? I took it out and peeked at the underside but can't seem to find a stamped date code like Universal and Advance ballasts have...is it somewhere else, possibly buried under tar? I'll post a pic sometime...
It's going to be spraypainted (any advice Mike?) with gloss white enamel and it's getting new sockets.  I'm seriously considering also retiring the old GE Bonusline ballast and putting in something that hasn't leaked tar (and probably PCBs).  It's currently back in the fixture and while handling it I wore rubber gloves.
Any ideas on how to magically dissolve the tar/PCB drip on the inside of the reflector? The garden hose nozzle didn't go it; even up close.  Pressure washer time?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 14, 2013, 11:39:33 AM
My bonusline ballasts had the date code stamped with ink on the left-hand side of the label.

My advice is ONLY sand the rusted spots and right along the areas where the paint is chipping. The rest of the area just scrub it really well with steel wool or do a wet sand with VERY fine sand paper (just sand it with sand paper soaked on water). That way you don't need to use primer since you saved the paint underneath. I sanded my RS reflector light down and you can see the sanded texture though the paint whereas with the preheat industrial i used steel wool and the result is factory. With flourescents or indoor fixtures i don't use primer since i don't see the need for it but with outdoor fixtures such as signals, street lights, etc, i always would use primer since the paint will be exposed to the elements.

If the tar inside the fixture is hard as a rock then there's no harmful amount of PCBs present. If that's the case, just sand the tar right off lol. Thats what i'd do. If it's gooey it may have PCBs according to Dave but my bonusline ballast has gooey tar and it was marked NO PCBs so i don't know...

If there is PCBs, you really shouldn't hand onto the fixture, but i suppose if you do just prime it and give it several coats of paint. Another way to get the tar off is to heat it up with some sort of cigarette or candle lighter and then scrape off most of it with a butter knife you don't mind loosing and then sand the rest down wearing rubber gloves. This will work if the tar is hard too and will be easier than simply sanding it all down.

The last tip is HAVE FUN! Yes, cheesey lol, but what's the point of restoring it if you don't enjoy it? ;D


BTW, today i addicentally dropped the two ALTO II lamps for the fixture i made IS. I thought for sure the lamps were toast (the paper end covers were on the lamps) and there's some loose stuff inside the lamps moving around so i tested the lamps and they work! Wow these things are a little toucher than i thought lol. I think the Alto T8s are actually pretty good from my little expericene with them. The GE EcoLuxes blacken too fast on IS ballasts IMO.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on April 14, 2013, 11:51:41 AM
You might want to try using a heat gun and some acetone on the tar. Keep the acetone away from plastic though...

Some Bonusline ballasts have a two letter code stamped on the flange.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 15, 2013, 05:43:16 PM
well, the 70wHPS M-250R2 with the deep glass lens i was talking about was fixed! not replaced! It has a new dark colored PC instead of the original light gray FP PC. i haven't seen it at night yet... the original lamp in it had began to cycle a couple weeks ago.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 16, 2013, 10:20:44 AM
I ended up hitting it with the garden hose to get all the sawdust off (spent years in a woodshop) then let it dry overnight outside, then lightly sanded it with steel wool, then hosed it off again.  The blob of tar seems sticky; bits of paint and dirt stuck to it but it could just have been because it was wet. I did try holding the nozzle up close for a few seconds though.
Would a propane torch (held like a foot away) soften the tar? If I had one I'd try a heat gun or a hair dryer.
Acetone might work, what about paint/lacquer thinner?
Even my Dad suggested that steel wool would be sufficient.  There ARE a few bare spots though, but not enough to call for primer IMO.
I've also heard that wet, sticky tar is likely to be leeched with PCBs.
Yeah, the GE Ecolux lamps backen quickly but still work, wheras the Sylvania Octron ones don't last well in frequently-switched areas. Do the Altos blacken a lot or just before they die?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 16, 2013, 11:55:17 AM
The Altos blacken less than the GE EcoLuxes. The Eco luxes blackened after the first switching lol. The altos in the fixture i'm hanging in my grandpa's shop's bathroom haven't blackened yet, but i've only used them a couple times to test them and just run them a little bit since i've never had a 4ft T8 fixture before.

i haven't ever had to deal with tar leaking onto a fixture. I have no clue what acetone is but if it's corrosive in nature then it'll probably work. I'd get a sharp knife or a small saw or other type of blade and try to cut the tar off but since it could be PCB infested i'd stat away from that suggestion. I suppose a torch would work as logn as you don't have one hot enough to deform the metal lol. Also, if the tar gets too hot it'll just run down the fixture like honey or pancake syrup so be sure you don't let the tar go everywhere.


Well, I decided against keeping the four lamp troffer type fixture. I just didn't want it anymore. Of course i took anything salvagable out of it. I need to make room for the fixtures from my aunt and uncle's house and also any cases of lamps that i may buy this sunday when i go to  this place  (http://providence.craigslist.org/gms/3739295014.html) right near my house. when i read that there was "tons of Florescent light bulbs in just about every size (no 8 footers)" i had to plan on going lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 17, 2013, 08:29:41 PM
I would've converted it to T8 and put it at your Grandpa's shop or something...
Yeah, you're right about the torch thing...I'm considering just spraypainting over the tar.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 17, 2013, 09:58:19 PM
as long as it's not visable that's an option too... Id attempt removing the tar though.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on April 18, 2013, 12:35:59 AM
Well, acetone is pretty corrosive since it dissolves polycarbonate and other plastics so I guess it should dissolve the tar (and some of the paint) off the fixture. Wear some rubber gloves before using it though.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 18, 2013, 09:57:54 AM
Yeah, acetone is nasty! IMO not as bad as muriatic acid...THAT stuff is NASTY!
But I might try removing the tar, but if it doesn't want to come off, since it isn't visible I think I'll just sprypaint over it.
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on April 19, 2013, 09:15:41 AM
BTw, it has been confirmed: I'm getting all six lights and the tubes from my aunt and uncle. :D And that nice stained glass lamp too. 8)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 19, 2013, 07:59:12 PM
Congrats!!! ;D
Get some pics please! Are you the one who will remove them or someone else? Of have you or somebody else removed them already?
My Sears shoplight restoration project is still going on, but today I put the light back together, stuck a pair of Sylvania /CWP lamps in there and hung it in my garage over a chest freezer.  It's still going to be painted and get new tombstones, and I'm seriously considering changing the ballast.  With all the dirt and crud on the reflector gone (the top of the fixture is still pretty dirty) it's much brighter and nicer-looking.  Even with scratch marks in the reflector from sanding it with steel wool and other prep work, it's actually slightly shiny; the tubes reflect off it a bit when lit! Still going to be painted and completely rewired eventually though.
Do you guys think it's really necessary to paint the inside of the ballast channel?
The /CWP lamps do flicker at startup but that goes away after a couple minutes with that full power Bonusline ballast behind them. I do daresay the /CWP lamps do have a nice color though, but still not as nice as GE Chroma 50...the light is slightly warm/pinkish though sorta like /CWX (which I don't think I've ever really seen in person, just in pics on LG/GOL) but without the dimness of "Deluxe" lamps.  Once warmed up, on this ballast, they're  BRIGHT! The light is in a location where it only gets a few starts a day and runs for hours at a time, so the warmup issue with the /CWP lamps isn't an issue...so I think I'll keep them there for now.
Eventually, unless I can find a magnetic T12 ballast or maybe an electronic one, it'll probably be T8 instant start when I retire the old ballast.  Although, programmed-start or (my second choice) electronic rapid start would be the way to go with a T8 conversion IMO...
Nice thing about most (well electronic IS anyway) T8 ballasts is that T12s will work on them well so if I so choose I can still run T12s in there for the authentic look in a 1970s-era fixture.  In that case, (until they're spent) the GE 34w Watt-Misers the light came with when I got it will probably go right back in! (cleaned up of course; they're FILTHY as was the rest of the light when I got it in November of 2012.
Any advice from you guys?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on April 19, 2013, 10:18:21 PM
Not much over this week as it's finals, but did manage to squeeze in one Restore trip. Restore didn't have anything interesting though.
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on April 21, 2013, 03:56:48 PM
Thanks! i don't know, but i hope to be the one to remove them! It'll more than likely be my uncle who removes them. they're still up as of now. they will probably stay up until they actually move in. They're hoping by June they'll be in the house. I didn't ask when the lights were coming down since i didn't want to come off sounding selfish. I'll get them by the end of the summer hopefully... and i already posted pics of them and you saw them. :P ;D

I guess you don't have to repaint the inside, though i usually repaint everything on my lights, mainly to get rid of the smell of the place it was in before. For a light to look like new, it has to smell like new too IMO. 8) Plus I tend to be a germ freak so repainting lights is like my way disinfecting them from anything the previous place may have had lol.

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on April 21, 2013, 05:42:27 PM
I usually don't repaint my lights but I do clean them with rubbing alcohol to get rid of any stains and some of the smells.

For dirtier stuff a nice scrubbing down in the tub will help too but make sure to take out any wires, ballasts and sockets and to dry the fixture immediately with paper towels to avoid rusting. I usually only scrub stuff that's been outdoors like streetlights and traffic signals though.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 21, 2013, 07:49:18 PM
My parents would kill me if i used the bath tub, or as Niall did for some refractors, the dish washer. lol

BTW, my iPod nano from 2009 went through the washer and dryer today. >:( :o :'( >:( :( :'( I'm surprised the thing is in one piece but nope, it won't even turn on. :( time for a new ipod then i guess... I want to get a nano though. don't like touch screens lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 21, 2013, 08:23:48 PM
Ever heard of the rice trick with wet electronics?
Yeah, touch screens can sometimes be annoying. 
My 64 gig iPod touch died from being submerged for too long, it came on afterward but died later that day.  It had beed submerged multiple times before though!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 21, 2013, 09:07:07 PM
yep. i think maybe the battery overheated from being in the dryer for an hour. that's if the washer machine didn't take it out. Man i didn't realize how expensive they are! Mine is a 5th generation black nano with a black rotary clicker. my friend seems to have luck getting used stuff (where he gets it i'm not sure, nor am i sure i want to know...) so i may be able to get one off him pretty cheaply...


also, i had reported a whole street for having dimmed out lamps in 100W M-250A2 FCOs and much to my dismay, THEY ARE ALL HPS NOW!!! NOOOOOO!!!!!!!!! I don't get it! It's really hit or miss with the mercs! That same street had one of the M-250A2s replaced a year ago out of the blue. it worked and everything. I guess i should be very careful with which mercs i report then... I just reported a bunch before i found out too so i hope they're alright... :(
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 21, 2013, 10:46:49 PM
LOL oops...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on April 21, 2013, 10:51:48 PM
The rice trick works sorta fine, you might want to try it again after 24 hours though. You basically stick the iPod in a box of rice for 12 or more. The rice absorbs the water like the silica do not eat packets in electronics. And yeah new iPods are pretty expensive. I think the new iPod nanos have a touch screen though.

I'm guessing Ngrid might have started replacing mercs straight out if they replaced all of them, I would keep an eye on the ones you reported as well as the ones left.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 22, 2013, 04:58:53 PM
I'm in luck! My friend is associated with some sort of electronics repair shop (don't know if it's family owned or he know a guy) and is fixing it for only 30 bucks! He said there's no garentee he can though and will refund me if he can't...


UPDATE: in the mean time, i transferred about 20 songs onto my phone for now. i have 274 songs though and each one has to be transferred individually so I won't be transferring all the songs lol. I just need enough for the bus ride with no repeats for a few days lol. You figure 6-8 songs a day (3 or 4 to school and another 3 or 4 back home). i decided to tinker around with my phone and much to my satisfaction (and surprise!) i can copy the songs off my computer onto my phone!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on April 28, 2013, 11:27:17 AM
Found some pretty neat stuff yesterday, see my recent uploads for pics (which have gotten pushed off the front page)  :8)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 28, 2013, 01:08:25 PM
went to battleship cove again and got some pics of some of the really cool lights there plus scored a GE COMPAX.

also, the mercs i had reported after the three that were replaced got relamped so i don't knwo what's going on here... maybe only some lineman have lamps and they're just leftover stock? I sure hope not!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 28, 2013, 07:29:23 PM
Cool, a COMPAX lamp?
I counted (was it you Mike who asked me somewhere?) and I have about 3-dozen Mainlighters.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 28, 2013, 08:54:35 PM
yep i asked. wow so 36 lamps eh? About the same as my thirty WW F20s and not too big an age difference either. I think mine are from the mid 80s and yours are late 70s?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 28, 2013, 09:01:26 PM
Some of them are from May of 1979 and made at the Jackson, MS plant according to Dave Silverliner.
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on April 30, 2013, 02:49:07 PM
Oh cool! if there's any plus side to these /WW lamps we both have it's that they're full mercury, full wattage, and they weren't full price lol. I think someone dated my lamps to 1985 or 86. I love the fact that they were made with the older lifeline style endcaps too from the 70s.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 30, 2013, 07:25:25 PM
LOL GE's endcaps haven't changed much over the years...
Mine were FREE! (only cost was they were a PITA to transport over several months) Even better! LOL but yours were pretty cheap too!
Oh and (gasp, barf, gag) I picked up 3 34w black-etch GE 34w Watt-Misers yesterday.  Haven't tested them yet...I know, I know, but they were free, probably work, and they're fine in warm environments on energy-saver ballasts...If I had to buy lamps and pay for them I would get full-wattage ones of course, though...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 30, 2013, 08:53:57 PM
yes, free makes everything better! lol

yeah the 34W lamps will be good to use to relamp a friend's light or a relatives light lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 02, 2013, 10:20:45 AM
Yeah that's what I was thinking...as long as it has a ballast rated for them...
I know of quite a few more of those 1970s Sears shoplights, someday I plan to try to get them! Maybe they all have perfect GE Bonusline ballasts!
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on May 02, 2013, 02:17:49 PM
Maybe! It's always good to find identical copies of lights since you can take the best parts from every fixture and put them together lol. That's what i plan to do with the preheaters in my cousin's grandma's garage if i can get them. I'll probably replace all the sockets though since they're all mismatched (yet it seems like it was done at the factory since with every fixture, the end with the pull-chain has Y-slots and the other end has doughnuts or the otherway around) and brittle too. One of the fixture when i was relamping it the new lamp wouldn't stay in since the contacts in the socket are corroding but i got it to stay and the lamp hasn't fallen out yet and still makes contact. Crazy me welded parts of a paper clip onto the pins of one lamp to make it longer so it's keep contact lol. If it does fall it's not like there isn't probably all sorts of dangerous stuff stowed away in there anyways lol. A little mercury never hurt anyone right? :P
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 02, 2013, 07:49:14 PM
Worst case scenario you'll have to call McCann Lighting and their friendly, knowledgeable sales representative/serviceman will come out and install a new pair of sockets, and a new 4100K GE Ecolux lamp free of charge...LOL
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 02, 2013, 09:54:29 PM
 ;D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on May 03, 2013, 12:07:45 AM
Recent Restore finds: :P

2 x F54T5/HO fixtures with Sylvania programmed start ballasts and 4100K lamps
Lithonia F40T12 strip with Advance Mark III ballast
3 x Sylvania Lifeline XL F40T12/WWX
Cooper FC8T9 circline fixture with Cooper branded rapid start ballast
2 x Westinghouse Canada F20T12/CW
2 x 116w Traffic signal bulbs, one GE and one Sylvania got them to complete a set of three lamps.

Pics of the first three are in my gallery and I'll be posting a pic of the Westy F20 soon, not sure if I'm going to post a pic of the Cooper circline fixture or the incandescents though.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 03, 2013, 10:18:45 AM
Cool, I need to get to a ReStore someday...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 03, 2013, 04:22:08 PM
remember that dead end street with the four M-250A2 FCO 100W mercs i mention that got all the lights replaced with HPS? Well, the first one was replaced with 50W HPS last year about a year ago. then i reported the other three for being dim, and they got replaced. But they used 100W HPS as replacements! So the first light is 50W and the other three are 100W lol. I'm glad they used 100w as a replacement though since it's brighter. but 100W every pole on a dead end street is a bit of an overkill lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 10, 2013, 10:27:50 AM
I was talking to someone yesterday who remembers Norelco florescents! So we talked for quite awhile about T12 florescents and MV! I did my best to explain the Champion Lamp Works >ITT>Norelco>Philips evolution,  and also explained the Westinghouse>Philips thing.  They told me where they used to live, their local electrical Co-op would install MV yardlights for free, and they still have theirs!
I also talked to someone recently who used to live in my house (I sleep in their childhood bedroom) and is also an electrician!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 10, 2013, 03:22:41 PM
Well, today i found out the M-250R1 isn't for sale yet, the seller wants to research it first. I told them that since the lens is missing, it's the least efficient HID lamp source, and the instructions are missing the light will be worth less. I offered 40 bucks or 50 if shipping is less than 20 bucks.

btw, why is Ian's username all screwy?  :-\
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on May 10, 2013, 07:35:27 PM
Hmm, I would put in an offer of around 50 too. My gumball was around the same but since it's used and the M-250R1 is new I'd say it's worth around 50. If the refractor was still intact and the instructions were intact I'd say 100 is reasonable. You could also mention that a new refractor will cost around $30-40 too.

As for Ian's name, I'm not sure but I guess he substituted some other alphabet (like Cyrillic) for some letters. :P 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 10, 2013, 08:36:30 PM
one thing i didn't consider was that she may have the refractor and might not have included it in the pics since when GE boxes their lights, the refractors aren't installed. That's how my M-400 was. that means she may charge me more than 50. :( :(

what she had said:

Hello ..not yet for sale as i need to research it a bit. I know it will not be near $17.50 though. But, If you would like to make an offer please do and i will do my best for you.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 10, 2013, 11:43:25 PM
Good luck anyway...
I had a dream recently that I saw some GE EcoLux lamps with PINK etches! LOL!
I'm looking forward to summer and the lighting treasures it might bring...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 11, 2013, 08:08:35 AM
pink etches eh? They make then with blue for the reveals...

okay, she said she'll list it today so i'll be watching it ready to jump when it goes up lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 11, 2013, 01:36:42 PM
Yeah, it was certainly strange...
Idea: different color etches for different color temps (Like yellow for 2700K triphosphor, pink for halophosphate 3000K warm white, some other color for 3500K, green for cool white, blue for daylight, etc.)
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on May 11, 2013, 03:27:24 PM
LOL i just like the classic black etches and blackenders. :P i'm not a fan of the green etches or green endcaps. i like the color green but green means eco and eco means crap lol. the M-250R1 still isn't listed... the seller said they'd list it today. It's only 4:30 though so the day's not over yet... they're in the same time zone as me (in Pennsylvania). hopefully she thinks my 50 dollar offer is reasonable and hopefully shipping isn't an arm and a leg... without the refractor the light will definetly be lighter... My M-400 was 50 bucks to ship from SC to me and it was twice the size, weight, and distance to travel so shipping should be about 20 bucks if the seller is a decent packer and doesn't need a fridge box to ship it lol. 70 bucks is really steep for me but i have some birthday money...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 11, 2013, 06:58:08 PM
LOL @ fridge box! That'd be a lot of bubble wrap and newspaper in there...
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on May 11, 2013, 07:34:47 PM
you never know! lol

on the contrary though, reading the feedback about the seller she's not the world's best packer and can be a PITA sometimes. She still has 97% positive feedback which is good enough for me... even if the light goes up on the bay i can't get it until tomorrow since my mom is out tonight with friends and she needs to buy it with her credit card. my dad's not technology savy enough to do the ebay transaction lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on May 13, 2013, 12:55:50 AM
Ahh, let us know if the seller gets back to you on the light. I guess I'm lucky since I have a credit card so I can go on eBay by myself.

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 13, 2013, 05:22:12 AM
As of 6:22AM, still not yet. lol i'll check when i come home this afternoon...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 13, 2013, 11:09:09 PM
I fired up a 400w Sylvania Metalarc today. and cleaned up another one of my three 400w MH highbays. 
I'm torn between the 400w Philips and 400w Sylvania lamps...both appear to be of very good quality and should last a long time, especially in only occasional service...
Of course I really need to get a 400w Westy Lifeguard /W cleartop!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 14, 2013, 04:42:01 PM
Eh I like Sylvania lamps ince they still use BT lamps for the MH. i wish they'd use BT glasses for the -28 and -37 sized MV lamps. I wish they still used the BT25 shape too but the ET23.5 shape they do use is still more interesting than ED23.5...

I don't know... a westie would look so misplaced in a highbay lol. you need an OV-25 or an OV-20 for it to go in! ;D sorry though, i can't help you on that. If i had a bucket truck and permission from the electric company I'd get you all the silverliners left here. There's an OV-400 for sale on ebay but it's a pretty penny (like $85) and that's not even counting shipping. plus it's missing the lens and looks pretty well-used though the paint looks good and it's 120V.


BTW, i found out the reason some of the lights in my aunt and uncle's house didn't work WAS due to a wiring issue. after my uncle ripped out the makeshift drop ceiling in that third of the basement so the elecrician could inspect all the wiring, they found (i think) a bad nuetral line and the wall switch was shot. That still doesn't mean all the lights work, but i have no reason to doubt their functionality. The lamps are probably all EOL for the most part though and if they are, i'll try them on RS. If they work at least on RS, i'll keep them. if not, to the recycling center...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on May 15, 2013, 10:02:44 PM
IIRC, Sylvania kept the BT-28 and BT-37 merc shape until they started outsourcing them in the early 2000s. I think the 100 watters went to ED recently too when they started outsourcing them.  :8)

I have some 400w Westy lamps but they look a bit odd in my highbay, maybe I'll swap the ballast with my B2255 so the B2255 is 400w and the highbay is 250w. It's still odd since it's a Westy but at least my NOS Sylvania /DX cleartop won't look weird in it. And plus I think 400w lamps are too much for the cheapo bucket I stuck on the highbay.  ;D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 16, 2013, 11:20:37 PM
IDK how old mine are but yeah a Westy Lifeguard or GE Bonusline or Sylvania Banner would me a little out of place...but many of the fixtures in my house have lamps older than they are...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 21, 2013, 10:27:18 AM
I found a cool white GE Mainlighter yesterday! Also some more warm white ones and some other lamps...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 31, 2013, 05:40:38 PM
I went with someone to check a friend's seasonal home before they came back today.  The woodshop is  full of old rapid start F40 fixtures, at least three of which are those old Sears shoplights like the two I have! There wasn't any electrical power at the time (no generator running; house is off-grid) so I couldn't see them light up though.  I saw some GE Watt-Misers that probably shouldn't be there though.
None of the lamps looked super vintage; some older (likely 90s) Sylvania Design 50s, GE post-EPACT Watt-Misers, a 40w Westpointe, etc.  Some of the etches were hidden though they way the lamps were installed.
Three are Sears shoplights, there's one other shoplight-type light, and a couple old vaportight-looking fixtures (with no lamps, ballast cover or lens) sporting .80 amp Advance Kool-Koil ballasts.  They weren't there last time I was in there though so they must be good, working fixtures and not dead ones, just needing lamps.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on June 14, 2013, 02:26:43 PM
I'm getting the first light from my aunt and uncles basement this sunday. it's the one with the broken socket and no lamps. It will be repainted and shipped up to Joe this summer. the rest of them are still up.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 15, 2013, 03:35:00 PM
Cool!
I went to some yard sales today and got some interesting lighting-related bits including Christmas lights, a couple nightlights (one with a vintage top-etch ceramic white GE 7w 115-125v bulb) and a 2-pack of NOS (OLD) GE FS-2 starters.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on June 15, 2013, 10:19:47 PM
Went to Restore today and picked up a RAB 70w CMH tallpack with glass refractor and some Durotest 40w AT-19 frosted long life bulbs.
The wallpack came with a 70w Philips clear 4000K CMH and is used from 2008 while the bulbs are NOS.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 15, 2013, 10:50:44 PM
Cool scores!
I also collect glass insulators! Anyone here interested in those too?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on June 16, 2013, 12:14:05 AM
Pics are up on LG (http://www.lighting-gallery.net/gallery/index.php?cat=10364) if anyone wants to see them.

Don't really collect insulators but I do have around 6 of them lying around.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 16, 2013, 08:52:25 PM
Cool, what brands/models? (I.e Hemingray 42)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on June 17, 2013, 04:36:10 PM
okay. repainted the light today. Will post pics on the Lg tomorrow and link them to the forum. i'm going to make a run to lowe's tonight to get some replacement hardware for the light since the screws have surface rust and i almost sripped one completly tring to remove it lol. the paint is smooth and glossy but the paint underneath was peeling and you can see the peel line underneath the new paint. i guess it's an alright job though. it's the outerside of the reflector. the top of the ballast channel is a little rough from rust spots that i thought would disappear (but didn't) but when it's mounted it's not like you can tell... I'll have to pay more attention to detail next time. I blew through all my paint repainting it too O_O I didn't know how much paint i was gonna go though. anyways, the paint is SUPER glossy and i don't know why. i like it though! it's really glossy like glass almost... it's still outside drying. It's dry to the touch but once the sun goes down i'll take it inside and leave it in the basement. then tomorrow when i come home after my algebra exam (ends at 9:30AM) i'll come home, take a pic, assemble it, get another pic, light it up, get another pic, and maybe replace the single lamp industrial with this one (and of course, get another pic lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 17, 2013, 05:46:26 PM
Sounds like McCann Lighting does quick restorations to derelict fixtures!
What will you use for lamps? Will they be included when you send it on to Joseph?
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on June 18, 2013, 01:34:07 PM
this one's not going to Joe. There was a misunderstanding with my and my aunt. it's the one that was mounted next thi this one that is going to joe since it's a little more compact (check the front page in the gallery, i commented on the light i restored). this one has the deepest/tallest reflector out of all of them and apparently has a rare long john style ballast. i'll post pics on LG. The paint job i did wasn't the best becuase i didn't really sand it down and get all the peeling paint off and file down the rusty spots all the way. gives the fixture character though...

i decided to replace the single lamp industrial with this one to get more light. I used the same lamp and the other twin that came in the package with it that was previously unused (the GE F40T12 Ecolux spec 3500 lamps)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 18, 2013, 10:16:13 PM
Well, cool nonetheless! Can you post some pics on LG? I'm wondering what this light looks like in a non-grainy, dimly-lit pic...
Today I went to my godparents' house...they have an oldish-looking (80s?) Regent yardlight on their shed (the ones with the lamp in at an angle).  It's pretty dirty and has two wasp nests in there.  (it's hardly ever used; I fired it up for a few seconds which could be the first time since I turned it on several years ago!) The cool part? It has a Westy /DX Lifeguard lamp! I hope to get this light someday.  I don't think the Lifeguard lamp is original; most likely it came NOS or used from somewhere else, but it's still a gem IMO...The ballast is somewhat noisy upon startup (I lit it for only a few seconds so IDK how loud at full brightness but as of 2 years ago the lamp was still quite bright (I lit it at night that time and let it warm up fully)
There is also a (250w HPS) GE cobrahead there that was given to them.  We opened it up...I'm streetlight-ignorant but there's two transformer-looking things (coils of copper wire), a capacitor, and a circuit board I presume is the ignitor? It has no lamp and the tag inside the fixture is unreadable...I GUESS it could be 250w MV but I doubt it. Man the Powr/Door on that thing is HEAVY!!! They asked me if I wanted it but I declined for the moment (no space for it) though I'm sure it isn't going anywhere anytime soon.
Also the outbuilding/shop we opened it up in (it sat outside upside-down for years) is lit by nine F96T12 2-lamp slimline fixtures! They have post-EPACT, pre-Ecolux 60w cool white GE Watt-Misers (which are likely original!) Problem is...two (on the same switch) buzz but don't light.  The lamps flash when you flick the switch on and off but that's it.  Weird...we tried swapping lamps and still no luck. Any ideas? Also another light only lights one lamp, at about 2/3 brightness. It's a replacement for the original Mororola Lumi-Kon ballasts these lights have...could it be bad right out of the box?
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on June 19, 2013, 02:32:39 PM
What model was it? does it look like any of the GE lights in my gallery? What size was it? You said it was 250W HPs but then you said you didn't know... ??? If there's a colored sticker on the outside of the door that will tell you the wattage. just add a zero unless it's a "3" or "17" (in that case add a 5 to the end to make 35 and 175) and "X1", which is 1000W.

If the ballast has two coils with a capacitor then it's CWA i think... one coil is typically larger than the other. can you get a pic and email it to me or link it here? I'm intrigued by it now and want to know which model it is. You should get into street lighting if you liek insulators and fluorescent lights and MV lamps. I'm guessing there are no street lights in your area off grid though. Street lights can be a pain to store since they take up a lot of room, which is why I prefer to collect smaller lights, so i can have more of them lol. Same with fluorescents but it seems it's easier to come across vintage F40T12 fixtures. I'll be getting my first vintage preheat F20 fixture (hopefully) over the summer.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 19, 2013, 08:31:56 PM
I wanna say M400 but whatever it was it was like 2 or 3 feet long and HEAVY! I'll have to look in your gallery.
The 25 sticker is faded to silver so IDK if it's MV or HPS but judging by the circuit board I'm guessing is an HPS ignitor, it's HPS. I do know the NEMA tag system/how to read those.
It did have vents in the door and a solid glass refractor if that helps...I'm guessing M-400-something since it seems like a medium-sized lume.
Good luck on the F20 fixture!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on June 19, 2013, 09:18:45 PM
Yeap it's a 250W HPS M-400 from the 70s. if the ballast was on the door with the vents it's and M-400A. Definetly try to get it!

I'd love a HPS M-400 or any older HPS light. i think the first HPS lights are really cool for whatever reason lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 19, 2013, 10:29:19 PM
The ballast is mounted on the door.  The door alone must weigh fifty pounds! :o
Well I might be going back soon...possibly this time next week I'll have my first cobra! Were the M-400As ever made in MV?
I'm considering bypassing the ballast for now and wiring the socket to the mains, then getting a mogul>medium adpater and sticking in a household incandescent or a CFL so I can say, "Look! I have a working streetlight!" until I find a lamp, and plus IMO 250w HPS is too bright for my needs...unless I install it. I might convert it to 175w MV or something...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on June 20, 2013, 09:32:25 AM
Yep, it's a M-400A then. 8) Yep, they were made in mercury vapor and offered in MH too but i doubt there were ever any Mh ones sold since at the time MH wasn't really practicle. (really expensive and you'd be lucky to have a lamp make it over 10,000 hours). There should be a lable on the inside of the upper housing and there'e where all the info is like ballast type, voltage, watts, and the date code. The M-400, being HPS and having a NEMA tag, is from the mid 70s to whenever the M-400R2 and M-400A2 came out...

just to let you know, you can't convert a power door witout ruining it so i woudn't do it. My M-250A is the little brother to the M-400A and maybe they made the powr/doors a little more versitile later on, but with mine the plug is permanetly attached to the wires so the only way to change the ballast is to cut the plug off, strip the wires, and find another plug which ruins the originality of the light. Or course it is yours so you can do what ever you want. I'm jsut saying once you modify it in anyway that's it, no going back. the idea was that you'd buy a whole new door instead of trying to change the ballast yourself, yet another GE money making innovation. :8)

250W HPS is bright, but so is your 400W MH highbay. 250W HPS is dimmer than 400W MH. 250W HPS is about equal to 400W MV, which isn't that bright. My M-400 (same as the M-400A but with a top mounted ballast versus it on the door) is 400W MV and while it is bright, it's soothing (well, it's also a coated lamp and i don't light it often. When you try to get a lamp, try to get a coated lamp so it's less harsh on your eyes. My eyes are very sensitive to the light. I have to sometimes wear sunglasses on cloudy days and when it's sunny i squint even with sunglasses on so glare is something that bothers me, which is why i like coated mercs over clear.)

anyways, I'd personally leave it all original but obviously it's up to you. I hope you can get it! i'm guessing it didn't have a lamp when you opened it then? To open the refractor part, the bare metal bar in the front of the lightpulls out away from the fixture and the door will come down. It's a spring loaded latch. To close it, just puch the refractor door and top housing together and the latch will make a lound "snap" as it engages. Also, don't forget to put in a photocell when you try lighting it up. i forgot to do that when i tested my M-400 and I was all worried when it didn't light up lol. Then after 10 minutes i realized i never put in a PC lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 20, 2013, 07:58:08 PM
I know the "Plug" thingy you're describing...I'd remove all the internal wiring and redo it myself with a HX 175w MV area light ballast (if anything) and it's associated socket (which I may or may not have to remote-mount).  Most likely it would become MV if I found a ballast...since it isn't exactly easy to ship to Alaska LOL...if anything I'd gut my yardlight that's in rough shape (I know of another identical Electripak light I could get to replace my tired one). In that case I could bring the ballast, (lamp?) and (PC?) down to CA with me and install them in this light. If  not, the next solution (especially if the existing ballast doesn't work) is to stick in a mogul>medium adapter and a CFL... :8)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 22, 2013, 03:21:21 PM
I went yardsaling today and found a vintage GE flip-digit clock-radio.  Very 70s looking! It works quite well, too, with excellent radio reception (picks up otherwise weak stations clearly) and has a neon backlight for the clock part that doesn't flicker or anything!
I also scored a 2-pack of GE 15w bulbs at Goodwill...always wanted some of those and finally got some!
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on June 23, 2013, 07:35:24 PM
Oh nice! I have a 70s plug-in GE analog clock. i like the older plug in ones since they have the smoothly sweeping hand instead of the tick-tock-tick-tock battery powered ones that drive me mad lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 23, 2013, 08:16:25 PM
Do you mean the ones where the second hand moves continuously instead of the ones that spring ahead each second? My old elementary school here in CA had those in all the classrooms.
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on June 23, 2013, 09:33:37 PM
yeah the second hand constantly moves instead of stop go stop go. the clocks at your school are most likely synconized clocks. most schools have those since you can set all the clocks from one central location (generally in the main office). they still make them too but synconized clocks are WAYYY overprices like traffic signals and the associated gear.  the clocks run from 150-200 bucks each on average and some as much as 300 dollars- for ONE CLOCK! imagine a whole school full of them plus the main controller and all that wiring and labor? that's an asinine amount of money! my elementary and high schools both uses the square clock in the link.  (http://www.simplexgrinnellstore.com/products/time_solutions/wall_clocks/sync_wall_clocks)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 23, 2013, 11:29:41 PM
IDK why but to me electric clocks like those seem boring...I prefer digital or flip ones...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on June 23, 2013, 11:49:31 PM
This style (http://www.flickr.com/photos/joeclark/3219901129/lightbox/) looks pretty cool but they're getting pretty hard to find.

Another cool style of clock is the Nixie style (http://uncrate.com/stuff/nixie-tube-clock/).

My high school used to have those synchronized clocks but they were replaced with battery powered clocks in the 80s or so. I guess the system was too expensive for them to maintain. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 25, 2013, 09:40:14 PM
Ooooo nixie tubes! Those things are cool...
Mine is somewhat similar to that...but...I'll post a photo sometime.
Did you know such a thing as a nixie-tube calculator apparently exists?
This flip-clock is my oldest radio now...PS I might be getting a 1978 JVC tuner from my godparents! (It's transistors I'm sure) I really want a tube-powered FM tuner though...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on June 26, 2013, 12:07:10 AM
Yep they are, they probably did have calculators with nixie tubes back then.

Vacuum tube powered stuff is pretty cool but they're a bit expensive to buy new now.

Also what do you think of my new avatar :D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on June 26, 2013, 08:53:12 AM
i think the fact that you wsitched your username too is just too confusing. at first i thought there was a glitch :P
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 26, 2013, 08:26:43 PM
LOL at first I thought Joseph was picking on me by changing my profile info, etc! Then I realized there was "Two" of us since my profile pic didn't change (the one with the Norelco lamps)
Joseph, I know what you're probably thinking as you read that...LOL. I was about to PM Joseph saying there was a glitch or he inadvertently got into my account or I had been hacked by some other party...and ask what to do about it and/or stay off GOL for awhile.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on June 26, 2013, 09:28:44 PM
imagine if joe copied your avitar and signature and pic title? that would be super confusing. :o
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 30, 2013, 08:47:07 AM
I was thinking of changing my profile pic to that 100w GE packaging while he had his like that...
Imagine if Joseph and I copied your profile pic, signature, etc. identically? Now THAT would be REALLY confusing!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on June 30, 2013, 09:22:09 AM
are you trying to foreshadow something? :P lol BTW, off to camp at 4PM today until about 4PM next sunday! you wont be hearing from me but "I'llzz be back!!!"
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on June 30, 2013, 12:03:46 PM
Imagine if Joseph and I copied your profile pic, signature, etc. identically? Now THAT would be REALLY confusing!

That can be arranged... :P
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 30, 2013, 10:49:48 PM
Sounds like Joseph and I have full run of the site then, don't we?
Is it just me or am I, Joseph, and Mike the three who are on here the most?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on July 01, 2013, 12:31:53 AM
For now yep, but Niall, Vince and Jace were fairly active a while back too.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on July 01, 2013, 11:51:55 AM
Yeah Vince was pretty active awhile back...so was Aaron before he started his new job...he still posts pics on LG though....
I do love how friendly this site is...if it weren't for you guys sharing all your knowledge I would still be pretty ignorant about lighting...Joseph, Mike, and Aaron have taught me the most! Thanks guys!
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on July 07, 2013, 04:50:24 PM
we all have to teach other so that we don't loose information over the years. and yeah we seem to be the most active followed by vince and aaron.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on July 07, 2013, 05:26:59 PM
That's actually why I've been supportive of starting a lighting theory and streetlight info wiki on the site as we can compile all we know into one place.
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on July 08, 2013, 11:08:57 AM
yeah a wiki someday would be helpful. Joe Maurath has told be a LOT of stuff through emails. I kinda forget a lot of it but I've saved amost every email we've interchanged so someday i'll have to put all the information together.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on July 08, 2013, 02:57:10 PM
Yeah, unfortunately if we want any chance of getting a wiki, we'll probably have to switch to a host with less file restrictions. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on July 24, 2013, 04:18:21 PM
-  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -

Okay, my mom said i can put a light in my room on a display like Aaron has and Jeremiah had. Now the question is where to put it, what light to use, and msot importantly, how to go about building it. I want to use conduit as the pole and arm to make a davit pole style like Jeremiah had used. A little way to remember him I suppose, though i don't have a M-100 to put on the pole lol. I'm thinking of using the OVC, OV-10, or RMA. Or maybe the OV-25 with a PL13 in it or something.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on August 04, 2013, 12:37:37 AM
Went to the recycle centre today to drop off some dead CFLs and it turns out that they also accept HID lamps as I saw some dead MH and HPS lamps in the CFL bin. I did find a MH with the outer missing though, the arctube was blackened but still intact.

Nothing of interest though, only some pretty new MH, HPS, and newer T12 and T8 lamps so I didn't try to rescue anything.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Model25FanForever on August 04, 2013, 05:16:49 PM
Ikea takes old florescent light tubes as well now
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on August 05, 2013, 05:06:51 PM
I was thinking, my uncle's friend (who really is a friend to me too) who gave me the OV-10 and OVC has a friend that works for NGrid's Massachusetts division (he was the one who removed my OV-10). NGrid doesn't repalce igniters, so I'm sure he removes lights all the time for bad igniters and nothing else is wrong with them.

Do you think it would be a good idea to ask him to ask his friend to set aside maybe 4 or 5 lights and I'll take a look at them and replace the igniters (if that's not wrong with them, order a new ballast) maybe repaint them, and sell them on eBay? I figure it's a good way to make a little extra $$$ and have fun restoring lights at the same time.

Do you think i would come across rude if i were to ask him to ask his friend for a couple of non-working lights and then restore them and sell them?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on August 05, 2013, 05:13:11 PM
I guess it depends on the person but I would offer to buy them at scrap value or slightly more than scrap value since he went to the trouble of setting them aside for you. Maybe you can strike up a similar deal with someone else that fixes lights too.
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on August 05, 2013, 06:27:06 PM
Yeah true... Joe Maurath told me he has a friend up in NH that restores lights from  NGrid's dumpster and sells them to his local utility company. Even NGrid comes to him when they run low on lights. He actually fixes the igniters himself. Typically a resistor goes bad or something like that so solder in a new one and the light can go another 15 years easily. He gets unlimited acess to NGrid's dumpster and 90% of the lights are in perfect shape and those that are busted he can usually build a few lights out of the good parts from various fixtures. Anyway i think it'd be really come to do that. But yeah the scrap value (cast aluminum is what maybe 10 bucks a fixture?)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on August 06, 2013, 01:11:41 AM
Cool! I guess the open board ignitors are easier repairable but I'm not sure about the potted ones that replacement ballasts use. Still you can probably even put in a new ballast and end up making money too.

Not sure about scrap value for a light but I think $10-20 should be reasonable. You can probably also make some extra cash scrapping any dead ballasts and busted up housings you come across too.
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on August 06, 2013, 10:20:37 AM
Yeah the HPS igniters are apparently really simple. the PSMH igniters are overly complicated so his friend doesn't deal with those. His friend is very perfectionist with his lights too. He has a contect with someone on the GE assembly line and gets an exact factory paint color and apply it with a foam brush and his contact helps him out when he comes across any troubles. But Joe M said the fixtures look so factory fresh all they're missing is the factory box. I wouldn't really be very nitpicky with the paint though if this idea works out. In fact, if the paint is decent on some lights i might leave it original. A fresh coat of paint might let the light sell for more though. I'm not sure how much i'd want to sell the lights at though. Maybe 50-75 bucks each? I mean, if they work great and have fresh paint that's reasonable IMO. Maybe 40-60 bucks for one with original paint?

BTW, Marco works for RISE (which is a RI union company that NGrid contracts work out to) and he is working on the new lighting for the "Providece Viaduct", which is a maze of ramps in front of the Providence Place Mall on I-95. The existing lights are 400W HPS Holophane drop lens highmasts wired at 480V. The highmasts are coming down in favor of LEDs on "short poles", so probably the davit poles that the M-400 FCOs are used on. The 1000W MH highmasts in Coventry, RI on I-95 are also slated for removal in a couple years but he didn't look at the blueprints yet to see if the new lights are HPS or LED.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on August 06, 2013, 02:23:43 PM
Hmm, I thought the PSMH ignitors are the same since both basically do the same thing...send a HV pulse to the lamp when power is applied. Anyway interesting that he has a contact to get the original colour paint from GE. O_o

A new coat of paint should help the light sell easier and for more and I think you can also sell them to new collectors who have trouble finding a light. I guess for them you can also include a cord, lamp, and PC as part of a package.

I'd say $50-75 is pretty reasonable for a refurbed light, maybe a bit more if the ballast is new and the fixture gets a new coat of paint.

I find it interesting that RIDOT is converting the last of the highmasts to davit poles as here the exact opposite is happened as MTO is converting from the truss poles to highmast.

I guess LED highmasts still aren't that good yet so if they want LED shorter poles are needed. That and probably the highmast poles are starting to rust out since you mentioned they're the older style with the drop lens. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 06, 2013, 07:26:14 PM
LOL most of my 4' lamps came from trash finds...including all those warm white Mainlighters! Another time I found the F40CW Mainlighter and was like  :o :o :o...and it works!
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on August 06, 2013, 10:09:22 PM
yeah i thought so too but i guess it requires different parts to make that HV pulse. yeah i was like wow exact paint color huh? :-)

Yeah i was thinking washing and repainting them. I assume all the lights will need is a simple igniter change. I wouldn't be including any lamps or PCs though. I'll get one lamp of each wattage too keep on hand (i have a 50, 70, and 250W HPS lamp so all i need is 100W and 150W HPS) so i can test the fixtures. I would ask only for small lights since hunting down boxes for small lites is hard enough, nevermind medium sized lights. I'll probably ask for two to start with (that's like 60 bucks i'm putting into the two lights if you figure 10 bucks for paint for each light, 10 bucks to pay for the scrap value to my friends, and 20 bucks for a pair of GE igniters. So 30 bucks a light out of my pocket and sell them for about 70 a piece and there's 40 bucks in profit per light. not bad... not bad at all... If i restore two and only sell one, i still make 10 bucks in profit. if both sell rather quickly i'll see if i can get four more, since i'd have exta money to get more lights. the only thing though is i don't want to be stuck with them after i put monet into them or i'm not getting anything out of dealing with them.

Yeah i don't know why they want to get rid of the highmasts. doesn't make sense to me. Yeah the poles are sorta rusted out but the lowering devices still all work as they put all new lamps in last year (and half are either out or cycling now :8) ) Even if they were to use HPS they'd still be using davit poles isntead of highmasts. Highmasts are great for interchanges since the poles are generally away from the road and you don't need a bucket truck so less liability (though the ones up your way are right in the middle of the road and you do need a bucket truck lol) Yeah there used to be three highmast installations. Two were 1000W MH/MV with the older round ballast cases and the 400W HPS set up which has the newer short square ballast case. all three setups used the drop lens highmasts that look almost like NEMA heads. i don't really like the highbay style highmasts. they're BORING. the drop lens ones are pretty cool to look at IMO. One of the MH highmast set ups was removed in the mid 2000s with over a few hundred (i'm not kidding!) HPS GE M-400 FCOs on davit poles. Probably 1/5th of the poles have been roadkill too. I don't see how switching to cobraheads saved any money.


Yeah it seems a lot of people replace lamps in pairs so the good lamp gets tossed too. And if someone gets a T8 fixture they'll just throw out their stock of T12s.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 06, 2013, 11:01:28 PM
I bet this was from a T8 conversion many years before; the lamps came from the local town hall/community center, and were stored in the attic in old GE and Norelco boxes! (Got a few Norelco lamps that way too). Then I "rescued" them, gave them to my all-T12 school since at the time I had NO space for them, then got them back about a year later, so technically they're a trash find. The F40CW Mainlighter was found in the trash shed at the community hall along with a few WW ones long after I permanently scored all the other WW ones and a couple Norelco F40CWs.
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on August 07, 2013, 09:32:46 AM
I've never seen anything Norelco here before. If it wasn't for the GoL and Lg i wouldn't have ever heard of Norelco. I first hear of them with their 175W MV yardblaster sold with the 150W HPs conversion lamp. Didn't they make the grooved head yardblasters too?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 15, 2013, 12:48:41 PM
Not sure if the grooved-head ones were Philips or Norelco, or both...but Norelco is technically Philips so it's basically the same light.
I remember the first time I ever saw Norelco on a light bulb, it was a Norelco F40CW which is now sadly EOL at someone's house but I may grab it anyway...squeeze a few more hours out of it on my shunted series RS ballast in that MetaLux/Gibson troffer light.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on August 16, 2013, 11:43:16 PM
It looks like they were originally Norelco (http://www.lighting-gallery.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-66868) but changed to Philips later on. So you really have to know the date or see the tag to see which is which.

Went to Restore on Friday and picked up a NOS 40w CGE Lumiline for my fixture so now I have a spare working bulb.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 30, 2013, 06:22:41 PM
I'm back home in Alaska after a very busy summer (well, actually, 2013 in general). I've been pretty negligent of LG and GOL for the last couple months, as I've been on the move and had my first job.
I haven't scored anything lighting-related for almost two months now, unless you count having to buy light bulbs at the grocery store to actually use...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 31, 2013, 11:19:50 AM
welcome back! not much in has happened to me lately in terms of lighting either. I was able to score two M-400A2s this past monday (not really leagally but someone stole the RLG and two M-1000s i wanted so i decided to got for the A2s) I contacted someone a week ago and no reply yet anyways so it's a good thing i stole the M-400A2s lol. I have a few more photocells now too.

 I  scored a working F40/D Sylvania Lifeline from my aunt and uncle's basement yesterday. it was the lifeline that was in the fixture that i got from them a while back. they never gave me the lamps with them. He swapped around a few of the lamps but all the lamps are still there from the first time i saw the fixtures. The other lamp that was in my fixture is in the wide-spaced tubes fixture and it replaced a lifelien which is laying up in the beams with another lifeline.

So i think there are three more lifelines, an 80s-90s Sylvania F40CW, an Philips F40CW, and a GE (all i know is that it's GE from the endcaps, i couldn't see the etch) The F20T12 fixture has two inside etch F20CW GEs i think.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 31, 2013, 12:30:01 PM
Are you using the Daylight Lifeline somewhere? That's a really cool find, especially considering it's daylight, my favorite fluorescent color!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 31, 2013, 02:20:14 PM
itested it but i'm not putting it in use since i want to keep it working. Daylight is sorta blue for me but it is a nice color. the place where i got my wisdom teeth out had a mix of daylight and 5000K lamps and the 5000K lamps looks very drab compared to the daylight tubes. The daylight tubes stood out much more. There were also cool white and 3500K in the hallways and a mix of warm white and either 3500K or cool white in the patient rooms. everything was T8.

there are three more daylight lifelines too. i hope they work.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 31, 2013, 04:07:50 PM
Which light did you test it in? I'm guessing the WWII single-lamp industrial that's currently just laying around?
Yeah try to get those daylight Lifelines! Although daylight is sorta blue it sure looks fantastic at night! It does look kinda drab compared to real daylight coming through a window, erc.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 31, 2013, 05:49:22 PM
you got it! i tested it in the single lamp WWII industrial. I love the sound of the GE ballast. When you plug it in it buzzes loudly then the starter PING P-P-PING PINGs nice and loud then the fixture buzzes softly. i kept the original hubbell starter in it.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on August 31, 2013, 09:47:00 PM
Well for me, I'd say I did get some more goodies over the summer.

Here's a condensed list:
Black Leviton and GE fluorescent sockets.
Mogul sockets
Cooper UCD shoebox
Mogul socket extender and other adapters
22w preheat? Circline ballast
1kW HPS
1kW MV
1kW MH
40w Lumiline fixture w/ NOS replacement bulb
175w reflector mercs x3
 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 31, 2013, 11:08:45 PM
Nice finds! I want to find a Westy Lifeguard lamp in 175w or 400w, some .80a full power F40 ballasts, and an F40 preheat fixture sometime soon.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on September 01, 2013, 01:23:28 AM
Thanks! Fortunately most of the stuff in your want list is still fairly common on eBay. Especially the 175w Westy Lifeguard and full power ballasts. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 01, 2013, 10:23:11 AM
yeah some of it is still common but it won't be forever. :(

BTW, the light in front of my house is officially a cycler. 5 years. Not that bad unless you compare it to the previous lamp that lasted from the early 90s up to when the bird nest overheated the lamp in either 2007 or 2008 (i forgot when lol) so over 15 years the original lamp lasted. okay, maybe 5 years isn't so impressive. It was a full mercury lamp though, not one of those yellowish eco lamps that NGrid uses now.

Here's the weird thing though, it'll stay on for anywhere between 30 seconds to 5 minutes but it's ALWAYS off for EXACTLY 30 seconds! And the lamp never fully extinguishes either, it basically just hot restrikes. I was watching family guy on cartoon network last night at about 10PM (my parents were out so i got to watch it on the 42" LCD in the living room lol. :P and i was looking out at the light in the corner of my eye and it went out at least 15 times during one half our show!

I want to report the light so that it gets fixed but at the same time i want to catch the lineman relamping it so i ca get the FPolc photocell, ask him to check the date of the fixture, and see if he removed any MV fixtures lol
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 01, 2013, 03:48:30 PM
Very cool!
I've been meaning that I read in a book about my town that was recently published that the building my "Old School" fixtures came from was built in 1979 which makes the ballasts that were in them likely original! And often they've run era-appropriate lamps since I've acquired them, although one of them has modern lamps right now and the other is a "Tester/lamp-finisher-offer" one with the third lamp...I'm still very pleased with how the conversion to 3-lamp turned out! (Although if I could find a 3-lamp F32T8 ballast I'd use it in there so there's more space between lamps and since the original Advance ballast running the outer lamps overheats and the thermal protector shuts it down after about an hour, then it takes about 30 minutes to reset itself.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 01, 2013, 05:04:51 PM
if the thermal protection keeps tripping you shouldn't use the ballast. The thermal protection will only work for a handful of times before it either permanetly shuts down the ballast or the ballast shorts out, which would kill both the lamps and possibly start a fire. :o if you want to use it just run a fuse inline with it so if the thermal protection fails you have a backup.

i personally think thermal proection is sorta dumb i think it should have a reseting circuit breaker of sort sort that would trip if the current drawn goes above normal because often by the time the thermal protection trips there's a pool of tar in the ballast channell and sometimes the ballast never gets hot enough to trip the thermal protection so it's useless!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on September 01, 2013, 06:48:52 PM
There's probably several reasons why the Advance ballast is overheating. It was probably already running hot with two lamps in the fixture but the added lamp and ballast pushed it over the limit. I personally would replace the ballast since RS is still common or add a 1A inline fuse to it.

If the TP keeps tripping it could get stuck on which will disable it. Apparently that's a common cause of ballast fires so I would change the ballast ASAP if I want to keep using the fixture. Some of my ballasts have non-resettable protectors so if it overheats the ballast needs to be changed. Personally it's much safer than the resettable ones. 
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on September 02, 2013, 09:29:38 AM
Yeah most people on the LG and here haven't found TP all too helpful lol. If a ballast is in good shape when you get it then all you have to do is always use the correct full wattage lamps, replace EOL lamps or starters ASAP, provide the balalst with proper heat sinking (if possible, don't mount a fixture flush to a drywalled celing, try suspending it, as the drywall suffocates the ballast by not letting air flow above the fixture, which would take heat away from the fixture. That's why a lot of fluorescent fixtures mounted right up against a celing tend to run hot and pair that with 34W lamps...

What's why if you see wrap lights installed on a suspended grid ceiling, the lights will by mounted on one of the metal T-bars. Since it's metal it conducts heat away from the fixture, to to be honest, troffers are really the best fixtures for suspnded ceilings in terms of ballast life. I like the look of wrap lights installed flush with the celing though since that's how my elementary school was.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 02, 2013, 07:49:28 PM
This ballast was overheating (with 40w lamps; no 34w energy savers) with the ballast cover off, long before the third lamp was added. In fact, I remember this light doing it when it was still in use at my school! I do want to replace both ballasts, as they're both pretty old and neither work quite right (The other is wired for one lamp since it's half-dead, it's a Universal Therm-o-Matic.
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on September 03, 2013, 05:46:48 PM
Hmm yeah some ballasts just run hotter. It could be that there was an air bubble when they were filling the ballast with tar so the ballast has air pockets in it so less tar. Does the ballast feel a little lit lighter than another ballast? (the difference might be ever so slightly so you'd probably need to weigh them).

My three Therm-O-Matic ballasts seem pretty touch so maybe your was either from a bad batch or had 34W ballast killers in it? I have five 34W lamps now so i need a fixture or two that i can use them in lol. My too vintage GE red-etched tubes, and the three NOS Philips Econ-o-watt lamps that i just couldn't pass up since they have my favorite Philips etch with the thin PHILIPS and the shield logo plus they're full mercury.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 03, 2013, 10:45:14 PM
Your Metalux turret lume should run 34w lamps okay with that Advance Mark III energy saver ballast. (And it's partially the same company who made my "Old-School" fixture that Advance ballast that overheats is in (And it's lit as I type).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 04, 2013, 04:56:06 PM
Oh yeah i forgot about that light to be honest lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on September 04, 2013, 10:20:44 PM
The EPAK 34 type ballasts will run 34w lamps fine too since they are basically designed for them. 40w lamps are pretty dim on them.
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on September 05, 2013, 11:25:47 AM
are those those ballasts with the green cases? i heard those stink lol.

I hope to be able to get some of the fluorescent fixtures in my family within the next couple years. First, that preheater in my grandpa's shop. I think he wants to sell the shop in the future. I don't know how long it'll be so I want to get that fixture in his bathroom down. Then those three preheaters in my cousin's grandma's garage because the T8 fixtures are right there waiting to be installed along with the lamps. The fixtures have really shallow ballast housings so they probably have oval-case GE tulamp ballasts. :D Those Sylvania CWP lamps are doing well in the fixtures too!

So as of today, I could repalce those four fixtures without needing to buy any lamps or fixtures! So they're free basically! I bought the ballast and lamps for the fixture going to my grandpa's shop with a gift card.

After those fixtures, my next priorety is the fixtures at my great-aunt's house. That includes the two other Western Electric F20 fixtures and KEN-RAD lamps, the 8ft tandem preheat fixture, and the T17 fixture. and I'd be retrofitting the two strip lights in the garage to T8. I know I want to wait to get the fixtures until i get my own place but I'll cram as many fixtures as i can into the shed at this point. If they're in my shed I can rest assured knowing that the fixtures are in my hands.

I don't think I'd need to get replacements for the 8ft tandem light or the T17 fixture, as she doesn't use them to begin with. I will need to get replacements for the basement F20 WE fixtures. Probably either F17T8 strips or wraps or F32 strips, wraps, or shoplites.

As for the fixtures at my aunt and uncle's, they're being taken down anyways so i'm not responsible for getting the new fixtures. :P ;D My uncle is just going to have the basement rewired for "regular lights" though. By that i assume he means keyless sockets wired to a wall switch...

Lastly, my priorety is my grandparents' house, which has the second T17 fixture, the four F40T12 Western Electric fixtures, the NOS LOA shoplite, an NOS F14T12 TS strip light, and the three lamp F20T12 halfpiper. Plus there are some vintage incandscent lamps that I'd like to have and I'd leave them with an equal number of newer lamps. This one is my least priorety since it'd be the most expensive plus i see them the most so i don't have to worry about the fixtures "disappearing" or becoming unavailable to me for some reason. I would be using five F32T8 strip lights to replace the 3 F40T12 lights, the T17, and the F20 half piper. Maybe i can get away with a cheapo F32 shoplite to replace the T17... But bottom line, it won't be cheap...

The good thing for these replacements is that the fixtures tend to be in different rooms so i don't have to worry about getting all the same fixtures, which means if i see some newer T8 fixtures at the Restore I can get those and use them.

So here's my list of upplies i need in total:
- (7) T8 fluorescent fixtures (either all F32T8 or two F17T8 and five F32T8)
- (2) F32T8 fluorescent ballasts
- (6) bi-pin sockets
- (17) F32T8 fluorescent lamps.

so this will be costly and i'll only be using the cheap crap...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on September 05, 2013, 02:50:13 PM
Yeah, they are lol. I tried some full wattage F40s in them and they're so dim.

Yeah, looks like you should try to save the preheater in the shop ASAP. I don't about you, but I personally like the Sylvania /CWP lamps.

Hope you can get the other fixtures too.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 05, 2013, 04:16:25 PM
yeah the Sylvania CWP lamps are the best. they're halophosphate, not eco, full wattage, and BRIGHT! I just have a pair of crappy lamps lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 05, 2013, 08:22:39 PM
Uhhh I think they're truphosphor as the older ones are 70CRI but newer ones might be deluxe halophosphate since they are 87CRI which sounds very CWX-ish to me...could they be a relabeled CWX? And yes, they are bright, especially on full-power PCB RS ballasts like we all have in our lights *(Unless they're preheat).
I would go for T8 shoplights and 6500K lamps personally but it's just me.  Are you eventually going to save the striplights you're converting and convert them back to T12, or? Cheapo shoplites might be cheaper unless you find ballasts at the ReStore or something.
While we're talking about vintage preheat and rapid start fixtures, I have some good news for you guys! Guess what: I will quite possibly soon own to vintage vaportight F40 lights, sans vaportight deffusers and maybe ballast covers, with .80 amp Advance Kool-Koil ballasts! Remember me talking about rescuing my Sears shoplight from a house that a former teacher of mine used to own that was going to be demolished? Well, they moved to a new house nearby (And I mean a couple blocks away) that has a woodshop (Both he and the previous owner are into woodworking which is another hobby of mine I might add!) lit with vintage Sears shoplights JUST like mine and a pair of 70s vaportight lights, sans lenses, that came from the other since-torn-down house originally! (So they were in the same room as my Sears light). Anyway he said they weren't working and I saw them lampless and visibly disconnected, and he said when they come down he'll let me know.  If nothing else I'd scrap what's left of the fixtures and use one of the Advance ballasts to replace mine that overheats.  And I hope to get the other three Sears lights! One has a WestPointe (True Value) 40w SP41 lamp and a pre-Ecolux GE 34w cool white Watt-Miser (Which probably shouldn't be there and I passed along the word about the dangers of 34w lamps in older lights like that). Another has a 90s Sylvania Design 50 and I think a warm white lamp, maybe even a Mainlighter! The other one has another warm white lamp and another GE Watt-Miser.  Another fixture has a warm white lamp and what judging from the blackening and being barely able to see GENERAL (GE) ELECTRIC I suspect to be a cool white Mainlighter! There were a few other lamps laying around, there was an EOL post-'92, pre-Ecolux GE Chroma 50, a few Watt-Misers, a pair of ACE Universal-Deluxe SP41s, and another Design 50.  Eventually I hope to score all these! In another room there's what I think is a Power Lighting Products Shoplight like the ones at my place in CA with a Chroma 50 and Design 50. Hope to get these!!!
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on September 06, 2013, 07:30:20 PM
Oh i hope you get them! BTW, what does your sears shoplight look like? does it look identical to my 1973 reflector strip light or is it different?

Well, i went to the restore up in Putnam, CT. they didn't have much but what they did have was pretty sweet! Before i get into what i got, I'll mention what i didn't get:
-a bunch of F25T12 30" lamps,
-some shorter looking slimline lamps,
-8ft T8 slimlines
-three cases or non-alto F17T8 Philips Holland lamps from 2007
-a 70W HPS floodlight for $9 bucks (i wish i would have gotten it)
-a few really cool looking recessed square incandescent fixtures with prismatic glass lenses and internal reflectors I wish i would have gotten one...
-F6T5 lamps


Now, what i DID get:
-Four NOS inside etch GENERAL (GE) ELECTRIC F20T12/CW lamps
-An NOS Lithonia (2) F8T5 magnetic preheat undercabinet light like Joe's (sans lamps, i'll need to get those)
-An NOS Sylvania 400W MV /C lamp! O_O O_O
-An NOS GE post-bonus line GENERAL (GE) ELECTRIC 175W MV /DX lamp!
-A used Advance F32T8 0.75A two-lamp IS ballast.
-An NOS 1990s F14T12/CW Philips lamp

The place was lit with F40T12/RS troffers and there was a F40T12 two lamp reflector strip light with the same design as my reflector strip light but the reflector was narrower (but still just as deep). I really liked the design of it.

But yeah i really which i would have grabbed one of those recessed incandescent squares with the prismatic lenses and internal reflectors. If they weren't recessed style lights i may have but even then i don't have the room in the house so it'd have to go outside. Unless i find a preheater or really ancient RS or cool looking RS fixture, I'll only be buying the fixtures for their ballasts if they're over 2ft. T8 fixtures are an exception, as I can use those to replace family members' T12 fixtures.

I don't think i'll be going back to that restore though. the RI restore has a lot more stuff and it's cheaper too (mostly because i bargain and switch price tags on stuff i think is too expensive. Shh! don't tell anyone! :P lol)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on September 06, 2013, 09:40:17 PM
Nice finds Mike! Mine gets recessed square lights from time to time but I never bought any since I never had a use for one. I supposed I could always slap a 70w MH ballast inside and convert it to 100w MV.

Recently found out that someone replaced a LED with a B2217 lol, have a pic of that in my gallery.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 06, 2013, 10:07:04 PM
thanks! yeah i didn't find much but what i found was pretty good stuff! the recessed squares looked a little on the older side and said MAX WATTAGE 200W They were either 12X12" or 18"X18", most likely the former.

going backwards in time eh?
"
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on September 07, 2013, 02:51:46 PM
Ahh, 200w incandescent would be fine for 100w MV. In fact some older fixtures were dual rated for 200w incandescent or 100w MV. It seems the 12x12 recessed squares are more common than the 18" ones too.

Yeah, looks like the LED was up for only a year at most, back in July 2012 the pole still held a 400w MV B2255.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 07, 2013, 03:57:56 PM
I'll post a pic of mine in a minute... the reflector is nothing like yours.
Cool find on that 400w /C!
The Restore I went to was one of those steel warehouse-type buildings and was lit with suspended troffer-looking F40 fixtures that had a random mix of (Probably donated) lamps along with a couple MH highbays.  And they had all kinds of cool non-lighting things too!
Luckily ReStores seem very common so you can go to more than one in the same day! (And you went as far as to drive out of state! (Although RI is a very small state!)
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on September 07, 2013, 05:09:55 PM
anything over an hour's drive is out of the question with my parents and the putnam restore and the one i usually go to are both 45 minutes from my house. the next closest one is in Worcester, MA, which is pretty much a solid hour from me. The next time i go to the restore I'll be going to my regular restore but after that, i'll try and check out the Massachusetts restore.


BTW, i realized I have over 50 F20T12 lamps. O_O and i only need three lamps to light the two F20T12 fixtures i have lol. 30 out of the >50 lamps are warm white though. I guess it's really not too bad of a color... I prefer cool white or 3500K/white lamps though... i have a mix of cool white and 3500K/white F20s but no daylight F20T12s.

As for F40T12s, I don't have nearly that many lamps as i do for F20T12 and I'll have a slew of F40 fixtures. Those fixtures will all come with lamps plus whatever lamps are in storage too. But i sure have a ton of F20s i just realized today! Time to start concentrating on the F40 tubes lol. If you think about it though, the F20 lamps are twice as easy to store though, as they're half the size.

Today, my mom and I went around looking at yard sales. I never really see anything lighting related but today i saw a partial case of full mercury Philips lamps I was like "oh boy we have to get these!" Then i pull out a lamp and see "econo-watt" and "34W" and was like "eh, nevermind". There were like 15+ lamps and the case was only 7 bucks but i didn't buy it if they were thin etched lamps i may have took the bait but they were bold etched. i want to save room for the full-wattage lamps instead of the 34W lamps.


EDIT/ UPDATE: I have 55 F20T12s in total and 22 F40T12s in total. I have one F15T12 and four F14T12s. Then I have four F13T5s. That's all for linear fluorescent.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on September 07, 2013, 06:45:20 PM
I think I went to 4 Restores once on the same day :o Granted there's like 7 of them located less than a hour away from me. (The GTA has a lot of Restores)

I have a lot of F20T12 and F32T8 lamps but don't have a lot of F40 lamps. Granted, most of my fixtures in regular use are T8 instead of T12. I might pick up a spare pack of Sylvania /DCWP lamps at Lowe's though, particularly when the preheater from Mike arrives as I'll be using those on my preheat ballast. 

I also have around 6-7 F14T12 lamps but I have three fixtures so that makes sure I have one spare for each fixture. Also have some oddball lengths and wattages not listed here but the lion's share of my fluorescent collection is on here and LG.

I think the only lamp type I don't have a spare of is F96T12/HO, 8' lamps are too much of a pain to store so I never bothered with getting a spare.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 07, 2013, 08:30:17 PM
I bet I have at least 50 F40 lamps in storage and not in use in fixtures! Most of them are GE F40WW Mainlighters.  I only have two F20s, one in use and one sitting in a cardboard mailer tube. They are a Philips F20T12/WW (In use) and a Westy F20T12/CW with the rare aluminum ends!
I love yard sales, I find all kinds of cools stuff all the time! I would've bought those if they were only $7. One time I arrived at a yard sale and someone was just buying a pair of NIB Lithiona F40 striplights.  I like those 2-lamp F40 and F96 slimline lights better than the "Shoplight" type with reflectors.  Seems to me like the F40 versions are kinda hard to find, the 8' slimline versions seem more common in my experience.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 22, 2013, 12:21:18 PM
I haven't been finding that much lighting-related stuff lately compared to earlier this year when I was bringing home at least an F40/F34 lamp a day!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 22, 2013, 05:18:33 PM
I'm getting my M-250R1C that I'm sure you've seen in the gallery sometime this coming week. I'm going to make home made apple sauce from some apples we picked today.

I haven't gotten a bill for those door decals yet nor have I gotten a response to my ranting email... If i don't get any letters or emails within the next week or so I'll consider the decals mine.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 22, 2013, 06:43:01 PM
I got an insulator today! With the wooden screw-pin to boot!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 23, 2013, 05:12:56 PM
nice! My M-250R1 arrived today but one of the hinges broke off. >:( I reglued it with Krazy Glue (super glue) but i don't expect it to hold. I'll see if it does though. I'm going to leave it overnight so it fully sets before installing the door back on the fixture. it wasn't broken in the fixture listing so i'm thing the friggin seller broke the hing opening the fixture. dumbass. :8) >:( oh and thanks for telling me about it? ??? i don't think it broke in shipping because the hing wold have still been where it should have been, whereas it was completly loose in the fixture when i got it.

The paint is really scratched up on top but otherwise a really nice fixture! the PC socket looks like the ones GE uses now but it's still a screw held one not a tool free one.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 23, 2013, 09:23:47 PM
I hate how cheap clip-on lights have sockets that go bad with the first bulb change! They just arc and make the bulb flicker if it lights at all... :8) :P...had the above happen for not the first time today on my boat...agh! Cheap junk! :8)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 26, 2013, 10:06:12 PM
Today I got my indoor vegetable garden going again and rediscovered how my plant light (A 90s Lithiona wraparound-cum-shoplight suspended from the ceiling with gangion (thick, poly string) has amazingly slow and spectacular startup flicker with the 40w lamps (a 90s GE Plant&Aquarium and a '79 warm white Mainlighter) on that MagneTek energy saver ballast...I should try to get a video
Also discovered today that the 2' T8 lamps in a couple 2' wraparounds on my boat striate just like F34T12s in cooler temps! (And they're on electronic instant-start ballasts).
I'm also working on getting some more fluorescent fixtures, a couple Power Products F40 shoplights and some plastic LOA F15T8 preheat undercabinet lights to cannibalize for parts.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 27, 2013, 08:24:41 PM
my 1973 shoplite takes a while to start the two GE 4100K EcoLux lamps in it. They glow blue at the ends and striate for about 3-4 seconds then fade on.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 27, 2013, 09:38:54 PM
Huh...and that's with a full-power ballast? Sounds like one of them isn't installed all the way and isn't making contact with both pins of the socket on one end or something.  Normally this would result in rectifying (I've known this to ruin a lamp ( A nice Noreclo F40CW too!) in no time!) but if there's enough emitter the lamp will run normally if it starts.  I had a pair of GE Mainlighters do that in my Sears shoplight once...every time I turned it on they took longer and longer to start.  Finally they would just sit there dim-glowing.  It then occurred to me to twist the lamps and sure enough that was the problem.

I swapped the Chroma 50 lamps I have into the other light from my school so I can use their high CRI for better color rendering for macrophotography (Lamp etches, etc.) And with the Sylvanias in the 3-lamper the Advance ballast doesn't seem to overheat either!
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on September 28, 2013, 08:14:22 AM
Yeah the lamps are installed correctly. They're Y-slot so if they weren't you'd hear "click" when the lamps fell out than a combination of "POP" and shattering glass as they hit the concrete floor lol.

I'll have to try other lamps and try those lamps in another fixture. then get a vieo of course! I've totally forgotten my youtube password so I'll have to reset it lol...

Honestly I like the slow, sorta dramatic start up but if it's going to chew through the lamps I don't want that. So far no end blackening.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 28, 2013, 04:37:14 PM
How much does the light get used? Yeah I know what you mean...remember me telling the story about replacing the Philips F40CWs with Ace Eco lamps that lasted only fifteen minutes? That time I thought there would be the "pop/shatter" thing as they hit the concrete floor since at first I thought they were coming loose! (And that light had Y-slot sockets)
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on September 28, 2013, 09:28:28 PM
it's used at least once a day but not ususally for more than a minute or two. It turns out it's the lamps. I tried them in another RS fixture to find them acting the same way. I tried a westie blackender and a daylight lifeline in the 1973 RS fixture and they start like a normal RS (a little on the slow side).

When i was up on the ladder and the fixture was on i realized how much the ballat actually hums. I thought it was silent. We have an intermatic electromechanical timer in that room that goes ch-ch-ch-ch-ch 24/7 so it drowns out the ballast but up on the ladder i heard the nice "hmmmmmmm".
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 29, 2013, 06:46:24 PM
My Sears light has a hum when first fired up when the lamps are still mercury starved, I guess it must be working harder then...but the compressor on the chest freezer below it is also rather noisy so it drowns it out...and it's on whenever my generator is on (I don't run my freezer on my battery/inverter system; it's on a totally different circuit along with the Sears light.
Is the Westy and Lifeline still in the fixture? Or did you stick in the Philips F40DXs or something?
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on September 30, 2013, 04:04:29 PM
i only stuck the westie CW and lifeline D in the fixture to see if the ballast was starting lamps normally. Those two lamps are my oldest lamps so i used them in the fixture. full wattage and full mercury.

Honestly, those two lamps are much dimmer than the 40W Ecolux cool white lamps. about as bright as 34W tubes without the flickering or striating. the ecoluxes are back in the light now.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 30, 2013, 09:36:13 PM
Nice, as long as they start I guess it's okay...I guess you could use those 40w Do-It lamps in there since they're pretty much a 40w GE in disguise...Personally I'd give those other Ecolux lamps to your aunt and uncle if they work on preheat to use in another one of those vintage lights and use the Philips F40DX Altos in the 1973 light...but that's just me.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 01, 2013, 06:37:28 PM
Well I payed $5 each for the GE Ecoluxes so I want to be the one to use them lol. the altos were free so it's not as big of a loss to me if they die or get broken or something.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 01, 2013, 08:18:51 PM
Oh I see! If they don't start reliably or have a broken cathode they'll work just fine on a F32T8 electronic IS ballast, I've had some GE 34w Watt-Misers in my T8 bathroom light without any troubles...I was out of F32T8 lamps at the time and since found some in the trash along with the second batch of Mainlighters but since they work just fine I'm leaving them as is, I'll wait till they EOL then replace them with that pair of SPX35 Ecolux T8s I found in the trash.
I've got that 3-lamp qasai-troffer light from school lit in this room now, with 3 Sylvania lamps...one of them being a CWP with the notorious mercury starvation at switch-on...even without the door/diffuser it's less noticeable with three lamps, two being full-mercury, than two of them in the Sears light which makes an annoying rectifying-like flicker till they warm up.
Oh and the Advance ballast still trips the thermal protection, but less often it seems!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 02, 2013, 09:04:11 PM
I just got six Holophane highbays from my grandpa! He got 120 of them from scrapping and he saved six for me. :D Plus he saved a couple dozen lamps. They have heavy glass lenses. they were originally 400W MH/MV but where reballested a year after they were made to 350W PSMH. they're 277V though so the ballasts are useless unfortunatly. So I need to get some 120V 350W PSMH ballasts...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 03, 2013, 09:35:06 PM
Sweet, I bet those would be bright in the basement where your F40 lights are now! (Just kidding!)
I'm thinking of converting that Lithiona F20 strip to preheat!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 05, 2013, 10:34:34 AM
Actually it'd be a lot dimmer since they all had 277V ballasts lol. So the ballasts will go back to my grandpa to be scrapped and I'll try to sell the igniters and caps. and I'll be selling some of the lamps too since he gave me a crapload of them since he can't throw them away (the mercury in them). The lamps all looks lightly used and are all Venture lamps as were the ballast kits.

The fixtures are Holophane Prismalumes made in the USA in June 1998.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on October 06, 2013, 01:26:19 AM
Hey Mike, if you have access to a 240v supply, most 277v ballasts should run on that too. I suppose the caps and the ignitors are still useful too, especially if you have another fixture that uses them. 
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on October 06, 2013, 01:37:46 PM
ehh still not really worth it since i'd need to plug them into my dryer outlet. Though i suppose when i get my own house i could run a 240V cable in let's say a pool house or garage (i better find a million dollar job if i want an indoor poolhouse lol) and run these lights in them... Maybe I'll save the ballasts just in case...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on October 07, 2013, 10:08:43 AM
Ahh, I guess its up to you then. Personally I might put them in like say the shed in case they're useful in the future but I understand why you would want to scrap the 277v ballasts instead.

And dude, indoor pools are expensive. :P
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 07, 2013, 07:13:37 PM
Yeah maybe I can just get a nice big pole barn and light one section with the highbays and the rest with fluorescents lol. See, any place where i could put the highbays, the lights are frequently switched so HID isn't practical. :(

The energy bill this past month was over 200 bucks and my parents were a little upset about that. I feel bad because it's prbably my lights since we haven't run the A/C. How many ballast losses do reactor/reactance ballasts have? I heard it was really high at first then lowers down? how many watts does a 100W reactor/reactance Mv fixture draw? ???
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on October 08, 2013, 02:10:30 AM
Yeah, I don't really have a lot of places to use my HID lights too. Most of the lights in my house are frequently switched aside from the stairway light which stays on for at least a few hours per day. The current CFLs in it puts out around 4000 lumens total so I guess a conversion to low wattage HID would be feasible lol.

Anyway, reactor ballasts are the most efficient magnetic ballast type, next is probably CWA and HX, follwed by CWI. I think reg-lag is the least efficient out of all the types. Also single tap ballasts are more efficient than multi tap ballasts.

100w MV fixtures probably draw around 110w-120w depending on the ballast.   
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 08, 2013, 03:41:01 PM
Hmm. Why are CWA ballasts called "constant wattage"? I thought reactors were inefficient so that why CWA came about? What benifits does CWA have over reactors or reactance ballasts?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 09, 2013, 07:42:23 PM
Not sure but I heard somewhere the standard 175wMV yardlight (With HX ballast most likely) draws about 210w.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 09, 2013, 07:43:19 PM
Oh and if it makes you feel better once a relative got a $755 (Yes, really) electric bill for a 30 AMP SERVICE!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 09, 2013, 09:11:17 PM
i think yardblasters typically use about 200-210 watts but i heard those ballasts have higher ballast losses becuase they're cheaply made. A Good 175W MV reactor or reactance/HX ballast draws about 200W or less. CWA is probably in the 200-215 range.

I thought i heard that reactors and HX ballasts draw a LOT more power when starting up than when at normal operating power though?

ouch! $775! :o :8)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 09, 2013, 11:07:03 PM
$755...but still ridiculous! (And it wasn't even in the dead of winter, either! It was in April-May of this year.)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 10, 2013, 03:17:35 PM
Oops sorry. I meant 755 but i pressed the seven twice instead of the five lol.

BTW, remember the infamous I-295/ Route 37 interchange near my house and how the M-250R2s don't work right? Well, I contacted NGrid about having them fix them and they're saying that each light needs to be reported individually, meaning that I would need to write down the pole number of every light that needs to be fixed. Keep in mind this is a FREEWAY! Even if i had my own car this would be difficult. Nevermind that i don't have my own car.

Anyway, I'm going to tackle the dayburners and the lights with missing parts first and locate the missing poles first then I'll get the out lights after since those will be hardest (since the pole numbers are hard to read by day, let alone complete darkness). So I'll do my best. It doesn't seem to matter if i report missing poles though since they don't seem to take any action towards missing poles. Even when they do group-servicing they will fix all the fixtures but missing poles are just skipped over.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 10, 2013, 08:17:58 PM
Hmm...that's weird!
I've already got plans for the two old lensless vaportight F40 fixtures I'm getting mainly for the old Advance ballasts, I plan to put one in my second Sears shoplight and one to replace the one in my 3-lamper fixture that overheats. And the sockets will replace a few broken ones here and there on lights I have. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 11, 2013, 05:22:23 PM
yep i reported over 80 lights between yesterday and today. :o i got 74 confirmations out of the group. I still need about 20 more confirmations.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 11, 2013, 08:31:11 PM
I've always had this recurring fantasy of scoring a 3- or 4-lamp preheat F40 shoplight! Or a /C Westy Lifeguard...
On one of my generators the hertz is off I think as the lights flicker slightly...more discussion about it here: http://www.lighting-gallery.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-66653
Wow that's a ton of lights to report! And any new updates on those preheat fixtures in your aunt and uncle's basement? Does that other light work now?

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 11, 2013, 09:22:37 PM
yeah a 3 or 4 lamp preheat shoplight would be an awesome score!

And nope no updates on the preheaters. I haven't seen my aunt and uncle since then. I haven't given them a second pair of lamps and starters yet either. Tomorrow is my brother's birthday so we'll be having a party. I'll be using my lights too. This yeah the M-250a up on its pole will light the yard along with my 175W Mv Ov-10 and 175W MV M-250R1. I'll post a collage of pics after the party.

and yeah a LOT of lights I reported! lol. I'm keeping track of them on a hand-drawn sketch of the interchange with dots for the light poles with the pole numbers next to them (pole numbers i looked at google streetview for). Lights i reported i highlighted blue. Lights they confirmed I circled in orange. missing poles are marked as a pink highlighted X instead of a dot. And lights that get fixed will get either a dash or will get colored in red. Lights that i don't get a email confirmation I'll resubmit an outage report and lights that were confirmed but don't get fixed I'll do the same. I'll keep on their case until all but maybe 2 or 3 work.

Some of the lights have baby blue PCs which were only used in the early 90s here which means thse fixtures have their original lamps and were never serviced. Some even have cream/light gray photocells which were used from the 60s up to the early 90s. This means the original HPS lights installed at that interchange were installed probably around 1989-1991.

There are at least 15 missing poles too and there are some big gaps too becuase of that. Knockdowns typically slip under the radar with them. I've been trying to get one pole in particular replaced and the base is as visible as can be yet they haven't replaced it YET. I've reported 15-20 missing poles in this batch of reports (same interchange) but i don't have high hopes of seeing them replaced. :8)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 12, 2013, 08:40:09 PM
And what if it came with daylight GE Mainlighters or vintage Chroma 50s?
It's funny, I haven't scored many 4' lamps lately compared to when I was finding stuff like Mainlighters every day!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 13, 2013, 08:18:20 AM
Oh i'd love that! the WWII light has a Norelco/Philips CW lamp and a GE of unknown vintage and color temp. I only know it's a GE because of the end caps. the next time i go over there I'll bring the two altos and starters for them.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on October 14, 2013, 02:54:20 PM
Anyone else get the day off today? Here in Canada it's Thanksgiving today.  :P
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 14, 2013, 03:30:28 PM
ahh Today is Columbus Day so I get the day off but a lot of states don't give students the day off because of the way he invaded the Native Americans' lands. It's not like he really discovered America. You can't discover a something that people already know about... That's like me walking into your house and "discovering" your bedroom. :8) lol
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 14, 2013, 08:31:45 PM
Yeah well as far as that goes look at our gov't shutdown... :8)
Nice, I hope you score that Philips lamp! It was probably made at the Lynn, Massachusetts factory so it would have all the design features of a Norelco.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on October 14, 2013, 09:43:30 PM
Heh, I see what you mean lol. Might as well say that I "discovered" one of your streetlights too. :P

We don't celebrate Columbus Day here in Canada but it seems I always get that day off anyway since our Thanksgiving always falls on your Columbus Day.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 14, 2013, 10:33:47 PM
Our thanksgiving is in November FYI...do you guys celebrate Halloween there?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 15, 2013, 04:00:05 PM
yeah thanksgiving here is always the last Thursday in November (so the schools always get Thursday and Friday off  ;D ) Do you guys have Black Friday? It's not really a "holiday" here but it's supposed to be when all the stores roll out the huge deals. Macy's is going to be open on Thanksgiving though. :8) Don't these poor employees ever get a BREAK?

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on October 16, 2013, 12:52:03 AM
Traditionally, our Black Friday (or Boxing Day) was the day after Christmas which is when all the stores roll out their deals. It seems in the past few years, they have a second sale during your Black Friday though. :P Over here Thanksgiving is the 2nd Monday in October so everyone usually gets a long weekend.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Model25FanForever on October 16, 2013, 06:16:56 PM
Black Friday= crowded malls

Black Friday is getting bigger here every year. The deals I see are better on Black Friday than on Boxing Day now compared to even 5 years ago.   

I find it ironic how the U.S has thanksgiving which is for being thankful for what you have. Then the next day or so there is Black Friday people pushing through stores trying to buy everything on sale lol.  :P
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on October 17, 2013, 04:48:41 PM
Yeah i don't get the back-to-back thanksgiving/black friday thing either lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 19, 2013, 06:24:48 PM
Well, I rewired my grandparents' vanity light today in their bathroom. The ancient thing had three bakelite sockets that were all broken and and lamps were flickering. The insulation on the wires was all cracked and stuff so we went to lowe's and bought three ceramic sockets and bought 4ft of #14 black and #14 white wire and I rewired the fixture and we replaced the 60W incandescents with 53W coated halogen GEs just like i did in my basement. Nice and BRIGHT in there now!

It's an old vanity fixture with three gooseneck lights and open bottom decorative glass shades. I needed a big wirenuts for all four #14 white wires and another big wirenut for the four black #14 wires too.

When i opened it up there was a second pair of hot and neutral wires in there that i assume have 24/7 power in case someone were to mount a vanity with an outlet on it. It was nice that the electrician took some time in laying out his work. The romex was 2 14AWG black cloth romex with (i think) rubber insulater conductors.

Regardless, my grandparents are very pleased that it works and how much brighter it is (and they save 21 watts too) and payed me with a new voltmeter, plug-in outlet tester, one of those power detectors that lights up and beeps when you stick it near live wiring, and a 175W MV lamp from Lowe's.

Interestingly, the Sylvania lamp from lowes is from June 2000! It's one of those circluar sleeves, not a box. It's a ED28 /DX Sylvania 175W MV lamp. I swear it looks Philips-made. It's says the manufacturing date right on the base. I'll grab a pic sometime. VERY dusty lamp but i cleaned it off and lit it in the R1 and it works, needless to say. Once in  awhile you'll find an NOS lamp out of no where. I bought an NOS Philips F20T12 BLB from the 90s at a Home Depot earlier this year. I saw the cool 90s Philips end caps way on the back of the shelve and grabbed it!.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on October 19, 2013, 08:15:28 PM
Nice, good idea on rewiring the light too instead of putting up a box store special on. Especially since it's a fairly old one from the way you described it.

Looks like you got some cool stuff too. I'm pretty sure the MV lamp you got was made by Philips too, especially if there was a date on the sleeve. It seems the Sylvania mercs from the late 90s to the early 2000s were Philips made.

Yeah, the NOS lamps sometimes pop up from nowhere lol. I scored a NOS from the 70s GE mogul three-way and a early 80s 175w Sylvania cleartop merc that way lol.
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on October 19, 2013, 09:51:42 PM
yeah they didn't want a new one anyways. it's in good shape anyways so it made more sense to just fix it up.

the date is stamped on the bade, not the sleeve. it said "Mfd.0600" on the base. the etch includes some triangle icon which i understand is affilated with Philips. and the etch is all stright like the philips stch not rounded like sylvania's atch. "SYLVANIA" it italicized though.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on October 21, 2013, 01:50:59 AM
Hmm mine had the date printed on the sleeve instead. Does yours have that signature Philips black paint on the base?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 21, 2013, 04:58:02 PM
nope and the base is aluminum too not brass. It's not the same as the alumnum sylvania bases on the chinese lamps though.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on October 23, 2013, 12:17:40 AM
Hmm, you should get a pic of it then. :P I thought HID lamps always had either nickel plated or brass bases.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 23, 2013, 03:15:47 PM
it might be nickel plated... it's one of the shiney silvery bases with a round bottom and a large center contact. On the bottom of the base that curves, the standard 0123456789 JFMAMJJASOND is engraved. the newer chinese Sylvania lamps don't have this and the bottom of the base on the chinese sylvania mercs is glazed porcelain like the open rated lamps unlike the USA-made Sylvania MH and HPS lamps that have brownish/purplish/blackish glass around the center contact.

I'l get a pic soon. I've been a little busy and I go camping this weekend (going up to Mount Monadnock in southern New Hampshire. The town was still lit with incandescents last time and they were all serviced too since they all had black PCs with a very low ftc setting since it was pretty dark out and the lights weren't on yet. There were HPS M-250R2s at the signals which had the same PCs and weren't on either. There were PSMH FCO M-250R2s with the same PCs too. I guess they were testing PSMH out. I'm glad they're not going LED and are trying out low wattage PSMH lamps but I hope they don't do a mass-conversion to PSMH replacing all the incandescents because I know soon enough all those new PSMH fixtures will likely get trashed in favor of LEDs...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 03, 2013, 09:59:05 PM
Interesting rewire job! I made a few fluorescent scores lately...an INSIDE-ETCH! GE F40CW Mainlighter, a 90s Sylvania Design 50 F40, and the remains of a pair of vaportight fixtures that apparently came from the old cold storage in my town (Which burnt down like 20 years ago) that had Advance post-PCB ballasts...which didn't work.  Seems to me Advance ballasts have an Advanced failure rate! For Vince it's Universal, for me it's Advance...
And I scored a couple LOA F15T8 lamps and the remains of an LOA F15T8 undercabinet light...but it's preheat which is a score to me regardless. 
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on November 04, 2013, 05:27:09 PM
Nice score on the inside etch mainlighter! Inside etch lamps are the BEST! 5000K lamps are cool too! When you look at a 6500K and a 5000K in the same fixture in a room the 5000K lamp appears dull compared to the daylight lamp though.

Hmm I haven't worked with enough fixtures to come across a pattern of failures. The only dud I've ever dealt with was the GE ballast in the wall mount strip light on the wall at my grandpa's shop. The thing was just too old and the wires were very brittle and I just deemed it unsafe to use since it didn't appear to be potted and and it didn't work anyways.

I've been trying to get my mom to take me to the ReStore lately but we haven't had a free Saturday recently. I'm hopeing this Saturday works out and if not they're open on Veterans day (oddly enough) so next monday could work... I'll be going to the "usual" restore in southern RI this time. I haven't been there since the beginning of summer so there might be a line up of goodies for me since I haven't cleaned their shelves in a while lol. I hope I didn't miss out on anything awesome that someone else bought though like an old tulamp F40 preheater or something... That would really suck. :(
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 04, 2013, 08:41:38 PM
Hopefully you'll find a 4-lamp one with vintage GE Chroma 50s or something...
Well you had those dud GE Bonusline ballasts too...
Any idea what Philips "C50 Supreme" is like?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 04, 2013, 11:24:24 PM
I've been meaning to ask for awhile what types of ballast buzzes you guys like and which are irritating to you.  For me I'm OK with the classic rapid start HUMMMMMMMMMM or the BUUUUUUUZZZZZ of slimlines but the high-pitched Izzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz type buzz annoys me...and personally those little preheat chokes are awful! I have a modified blacklight fixture above my computer I hacked up so a F20T12 lamp would fit and it's little "Wall-Wart" ballast is right in there in the annoying category...but that faint buzz of preheat chokes in circline adapters and undercabinet lights is annoying to me...especially if it's really faint.  Now some RS ballasts that have a loud BIIIIIZZZZZZZZ are kinda annoying IMO...you should hear some of the lights at my school!
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on November 05, 2013, 05:46:59 PM
That would be awesome! I'll have to see what's there though.

I couldn't really tell you in words. If i heard a balalst in person I could instantly tell you if i didn't mind it or if it annoyed me. I hate the ballasts that buzz really faintly but you can still slightly hear it. Those drive you nuts cause then you're listening for it lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 05, 2013, 09:27:44 PM
Remember the rusty undercabinet fixture with the Thorn lamp? That thing is in the annoying faint izzzz category...
Also high-wattage incandescents with vertical filaments (75w and higher usually but I've seen it with 60w bulbs with vertical filaments) is that on dimmer switches dimmed way down or on modified-sine-wave inverter electricity they make this annoying high-pitched, whining bizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzziiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnggggggggggggggggggggggggeeeeeeen sound...do you know what I mean? At a friends house (Where my Electripak 175w MV yardblaster came from) they have multiple 200w incandescents on dimmers and the buzz is something else!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 06, 2013, 05:01:17 PM
Yeah my closet light was retrofitted to preheat by yours truley and it falls into the "izzzzzzzzz" category. i think most preheat chokes are like that. My closet light ballast is on the loud side though so I don't mind it. I don't like the MMMMMMMM sound of trigger start or RS or slimline ballasts though. I nice faint hum is alright but the louder MMMMMMMMM ballasts are ANNOYING! There's just a certain pitch of the MMMM ballasts that makes your ears pop and feel clogged. i don't mind the sound itself but my ears will pop and feel clogged if the ballast is the right pitch.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 06, 2013, 08:31:24 PM
Some RS ballasts can be annoying but as long as they HUMMMMMMMM they're okay with me. 
Really? I love shopping in mom-and-pop stores under buzzing F96T12 fixtures!
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 07, 2013, 05:06:50 PM
Normal buzzing slimines and RS T12s don't bother me but when the ballast is obnoxiously loud it's really irritating.

Pretty soon it'll be time to take out the Christmas lights. I traditionally put them up on the long weekend after Thanksgiving. Only three weeks til Thanksgiving...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 08, 2013, 09:27:28 PM
I do it after my birthday in December...
Oh and I stuck a new lamp I was given into my yardblaster and the ballast has an interesting intermittent buzz now....like IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ------------------------------IZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ---------------------IIIIIZZZZZZZZZZ. So loud but intermittent...weird...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 08, 2013, 11:12:13 PM
sounds to be like the fixture isn't getting a clean 60Hz wave (which is understandable since you're on generator power) but if it wasn't doing it before i don't know lol. If something loose?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 09, 2013, 12:08:21 AM
For whatever it's worth on this particular generator I'm currently using (a 3-cylinder Isuzu diesel engine with a 10Kw 120/240v Stamford alternator) I'm pretty sure the hertz are off since the lights flicker slightly at a constant rate, kinda like a rectifying fluorescent but much slower if that makes any sense to you...it does make other ballasts sound interesting though...the buzz sounds "choppy" if you will but here it would buzz for like 10 seconds, then stop, them buzz again, etc. It may have been doing it before and I just never noticed, too.  I know on good pure-60-hertz-sine-wave power it just hums softly though...and on modified-sine-wave electricity it sounds like a hockey game buzzer!
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on November 09, 2013, 03:18:05 PM
Ahh yeah I've never heard a fixture running on a generator so i wouldn't be able to relate to the flicker or ballast sounds but as long as the fixture doesn't malfunction i guess it's fine...


I went to the Restore and found quite the score! You can tell I haven't been there recently because they had an overflow of fluorescent stuff lol. I walked out with four NOS F40T12/CW lamps (three Sylvania CWP lamps from pre-2002 and one ITT lamp), four NOS F30T12/CW Sylvania LifeLines, an NOS F20T12/CW Sylvania Lifeline, and two lightly used 1996 Philips F32T8s (pre-Alto and they have the thin PHILIPS lettering so i got them). I also got a SIM-KAR F20T12 strip light with an April 1973 GE NPF trigger start ballast. It works fine and the paint is in good shape after washing it so I'll be leaving it as-is. The ballast is nearly dead silent. It lights a F20 lamp rather dimly (like any other typical NPF single lamp ballast) but it's a nice quality vintage ballast in a nice hefty guage fixture.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Model25FanForever on November 09, 2013, 05:00:11 PM
I just replaced a globe 100w light bulb on my ceiling fan and I noticed it was flickering and the filament had actually detached from the rest of the bulb. I have now put in a 60w because the 100w my dad put in was way to high.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 09, 2013, 07:19:24 PM
Ahh I have three LEDs in my bedroom light. I bought them a few years ago to test them out. They haven't died yet...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 09, 2013, 09:08:53 PM
Yeah on my other generator it acts pretty normally...but that one has an inverter output that is supposedly just as clean as utility power...
Very cool! When do you plan to visit Restore next? Personally I'd go every month or so...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 10, 2013, 01:58:27 PM
I'd like to go every month but i don't know when the next time I'll go is.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 10, 2013, 02:08:31 PM
I'd go every week or so if it was nearby...you never know what you'll miss!
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on November 10, 2013, 07:29:18 PM
yeah I know. When I get my own car maybe I'll be able to go more often (that is if i can trust my car to take me on a 45 minute ride and back without breaking down lol). I don't know what my first car will be. I have a preference toward Chevy/GM for new vehicles since they seem very well built. Definetly don't want Ford and I'd liek to stay away from Toyota because of all those issues with the breaks going and stuff...

There were a good amount of fixtures there but only a couple of them were left from the last time I was there. If the same fixtures are still left, one has a F32T8 Sylvania ballast that i plan to buy for the ballast, one has a F40T12 HPF RS ballast (i think Advance Mark III) and there are those NOS fixtures i pulled the ITT and lifeline lamps from.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 10, 2013, 09:04:54 PM
Yeah it seems everyone's first car is a crappy one...I've never heard anything bad about toyota but FORD- Found On Road Dead...Driver Returns on Foot...you'd look silly walking down the side of the freeway with a 4-lamp F40 preheater!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 10, 2013, 10:15:54 PM
LOL i could totally picture myself carrying a fixture home. It would probably take like 6 hours to get home by foot since it's like 45 minutes going about 55MPH average...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 11, 2013, 08:30:51 PM
LOL...
I think the starter in my GE COMPAX lamp is getting slow and "Afraid of the Dark" so I'm considering sticking an incandescent or a spiral in there instead...
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on November 12, 2013, 07:11:43 PM
ahh yeah maybe the starter is on its way out. in that case I'd retire it to display just so you can still enjoy it starting up 30 years from now.

Today i got a nice score! 16 Westinghouse F14T12/CW lamps. 16 ITT F14T12/CW lamps, and an inside etch GE F14T12/CW lamp. They all work though a good number are visably used (blackening) so I assume they are all lightly used. I don't have any F14T12 fixtures so I plan on passing some of them onto other collectors.

I also have nine electronic PL ballasts. Seven are Advance programmed start 32/42W PL ballasts and the other two are dimmable 32/42W Universal ballasts. All are 120/277V and used but look almost new.

Does anyone know if the 32W PL ballasts will run F32T8s?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 12, 2013, 08:18:54 PM
Yeah I might...nice score on those F14s!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 12, 2013, 08:26:24 PM
Thanks! check the LG for pics.

BTW, if you want one ITT and one Westy lamp I'll send you them for shipping. I don't know where you live but Anchorage came to mind and shipping to there is about $15 which is reasonable for Priorety 3-Day Delivery.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 13, 2013, 08:57:19 PM
I'm gonna have to decline for now since I don't have a F14 fixture and am unable to recieve lamps from other members for reasons I won't mention here...but if you hold on to those for a few years then I'd be interested for sure! Thanks for the offer though! ;D
BTW I live nowhere NEAR Anchorage LOL...I live in the southeast "Panhandle" close to Sitka...although of COURSE Anchorage would come to mind!  :)

Today I was at someone's house and they have a couple of those Philips L-Prize LEDs in use in can lights...very cool! They were telling me they get HOT though!
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on November 13, 2013, 10:13:02 PM
Hmm it's still be $15 to Sitka lol. yeah i'll be keeping a good amount of the lamps so if you ever want one down the road let me know.

yeah LED lamps do give off heat. it's true that the LED diodes themselves don't emmit heat but the electrical components sure do! nowhere near as hot as incandescent or even CFL though
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 14, 2013, 09:31:11 PM
Umm...these are apparently burn-me hot!
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on November 14, 2013, 09:53:19 PM
if you touch the heat sinks then yeah. once i touched the heatsink of one of the LEDs in my room after taking it out and it was really hot so i instantly dropped it and it survived! if you don't touch the heatsinks it shouldn't be too hot.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 15, 2013, 02:28:15 PM
Yeah...they have tons of recessed "Can" lights in their house and there's always a few fried CFLs sitting on their kitchen bar counter...
I just realized recently I have about 60 F40/F34 lamps! All the F34s are GE 34w Watt-Misers (cool white) and most of the F40s are warm white GE Mainlighters, though I have a couple cool white ones too.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 15, 2013, 02:44:32 PM
Writing the above post made me decide to try that spent GE inside-etch F40CW Mainlighter I have again.  It sorta fires up on a series rapid start but isn't stable...at least on the Advance .77 amp Kool-Koil ballast that oddly enough ALLOWS rectification instead of the normal dim-glowing of spent lamps on rapid start.  So needless to say it's currently the center lamp in my 3-lamper on the Universal Therm-O-matic shunted lamp-finisher-offer-squeeze-a-few-more-hours-out-of-a-bad-bulb ballast.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 16, 2013, 11:29:05 PM
...and I caught it's final moments on camera! It worked fine for maybe 10-15 minutes today, but made a "creaking" sound that sounded very much like fluorescent glass. (If that makes any sense). I got the idea to get out my camera to take a pic of the etch, and then it started flickering violently with a "Zapping" sound...not sure if it was from the ballast, lamp, or both), then went into swirl mode at the etch end (It was a REEEEEAAAAAALLLLLLLLLYYYY cool effect! and a little bit of swirling at the end opposite the etch.  Then it got into some violent flickering/zapping, then resigned to a dim flicker, occasionally lighting for a few seconds.  It's still doing that occasionally as I type...but the coolest part is over.  I think once I'm done posting this I'll take it out and stick in another lamp to squeeze a few more hours out of.
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on November 17, 2013, 12:45:41 PM
Hmm odd that it allows rectification but it allows for a cool show! Hopefully it doesn't damage the balalst though and hopefully the ballast itself isn't on the way out since it shouldn't allow rectification.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 17, 2013, 03:59:13 PM
The ballast that does the rectifying is a late 70s Advance .77 amp Kool-Koil...which I tried it on first.  It's wired for two lamps just like normal.  The one that did the cool swirling was an old Universal Therm-o-Matic I have wired for one lamp since it's half-dead and won't light both. As for the Advance being on it's way out, it already is since it trips it's thermal protection after an hour or so.  But the center lamp (Usually one having the last few hours squeezed out of it) provides standby light.  (If you haven't already figured it out this is that 3-lamper I made).
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on November 18, 2013, 08:43:30 PM
ahh so this ballast does have issues lol. I'll take a wild guess and say it's the capacitor but i don't know  lol. if the cap is bad it won't limit the current correctly so the ballast will run hotter, thus tripping the thermal protection but i don't know if the cap prevents rectification or if it's a different component...

I found two auctions, one for four 175W MV OV-15s and the other for a 250W MV M-250A with a supposedly bad ballast. the westies are $100 each which is a little steep for a used light that's not tested aka "as is". the M-250A is an insane $140 for a light that "The internal wiring and components are in need of repair or replacement". The seller didn't post a pic of the ballast though. It's also missing the Pc receptacle though it had a /DX 250W lamp that appears to be a GE.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 19, 2013, 09:42:17 AM
If you can afford it an OV-15 would be cool!
Yeah maybe...I never thought about the capacitor.  It otherwise lights normally though and I have no way to measure the current...but it acts kinda like a LPF ballast in terms of startup and lamp EOL, but HPF in terms of brightness and if the secondary lamp is missing the primary one (Blue/red wires) will glow/striate dimly
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 19, 2013, 05:19:31 PM
nah can't afford it lol. Sounds like there's something affecting the power factor, though i don't if it's a cap. Sounds like it could be... If the PF-correcthing item is bad it's giving the wrong power factor to the secondary which might explain why it's overheating. I'll be honest and say I don't know what I'm talking about though lol. I'm just trying to find an explanation that makes sense...

If you were to bring this up on the LG you'd probably get a nice solid answer in a day or so lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 19, 2013, 09:18:55 PM
I just might try that...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 22, 2013, 09:49:16 PM
Well my computer area is now lit by the other (still 2-lamp with the Universal Therm-O-Matic ballast) fixture from my school.  The setup is pretty much a 1X4 troffer-cum-shoplight since I have suspended it with Gangion (A type of thick, heavy-duty string used for fishing gear) from the sloped ceiling.  In acutality, credit could go to someone else I know who had the (literally!) brilliant idea to suspend them.  I thought, "That's a really good idea actually!" and I plan to do the same to the other (3-lamp) one eventually.  Where that one will be going is at a right angle to this one so it'd be "flat" on the sloped ceiling but suspending is so much easier, especially when installing a light by yourself (This one already took enough ingenuity to hang and took about an hour and a half of creativity (My installations always take forever; especially fluorescent fixtures; the only time I didn't suspend fixtures was between ceiling joists in an unfinished ceiling so I stuck some 8 penny nails in the joists to balance the fixtures on while fighting with the screw gun and probably muttering profane words under my breath). But anyway back to this light...like I said it required some creativity to hang (I actually took some pictures of the light half-hung, sitting on a cardboard box, then an old Philips bass subwoofer, while I was in the process...it did look pretty ridiculous! Once I got both ends up I discovered that of course having a nice heavy magnetic rapid start ballast off to one side of the fixture affected it's balance...so then I had to take one end BACK down and move things around, then it was OK but it was out of square if you will; this light is actually a little on the flimsy side being a troffer, so I had to add some other wire (Old ballast leads actually) to the  corners in a very silly-looking way (A typical Andy install I must admit, mine always are a little bit too creative and dangerous-looking.) The worst part, I will say, was trying to install the lamps afterward...we all know troffers are a royal pain to relamp anyway, as are suspended fixtures...how about both! The current lamps are a pair of May 1979 warm white GE Mainlighters manufactured at the Jackson, Mississippi plant.  Is a lamp NOS if it has mercury condensation or is it used? (I know I've fired this particlular pair up before but do you guys think they were never used before that?) Regardless I bet they'll last for years and years in normal residential use.  The ballast is quite buzzy upon startup, getting even LOUDER at first, then quiets down.  This one doesn't do the annooying flicker thing as much on one of my generators whereas that Advance Kool-Koil flickers too much to be working under...this one flickers slightly but nothing I can't ignore.  Ideally I'll find a F72T12 slimline someday for this spot...it will fit PERFECTLY! Where the other light is going would be nice to have a F96T12 there someday.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 23, 2013, 10:36:53 PM
And I hung the other (3-lamp) one tonight as well.  With both of them it's like a car showroom or something in this room. I may add the doors to the fixtures later but I honestly like this setup better without them so far.  I also think I like the 3-lamper better as well.  Of course, I used three more warm white Mainlighters to complete the other fixture.  One of them has about had it though and didn't want to start up this time...so I suspect I may very well be swapping it for the one on the shunted ballast in the middle very soon.  I must say installing the lamps took a good five minutes! (And that light was previously an awkward PITA to relamp!) I'll post a pic of how this looks. 
I may have to get rid of the warm whites though eventually...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 24, 2013, 08:33:28 PM
i was camping this weekend so that's why i wasn't on. I saw your light mounted. Looks good! yeah troffers are a PITA to relamp lol. The newer ones you can just stretch open (i don't recommend it though but sometimes you just blow a fuse (no pun intended hehe) trying to get the old lamps out. then when you finally get the satisfying accomplishment of delamping the fixture, you remember it's time to repeat the process in reverse and you weren't paying attention to how you removed the old lamps. Then on the last lamp one of the pins breaks off and you just go " 'F' it, I'll do it some other time" lol
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 24, 2013, 09:10:40 PM
You had me laughing out loud at that description..."Blow a fuse"!
For me it's usually getting PO'd and managing to break sockets twisting lamps forcefully or smashing the end of the lamp on something causing a PIIIIISSSSSSSSS sound (No pun intended) as it loses vacuum blowing the phosphor off the end.
Yeah I also have that thing of now remembering how I got them out...but on these I've sorta got it down by now since I've relamped these countless times.  If you want to change the one closest to the ballast cover on one side you have to remove the other two first on the 3-lamp one.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 24, 2013, 09:29:59 PM
yeah i'm a pro at relamping my grandpa's troffers now lol. there are holes on the ends that the lamp pins fit into that let you drop the other end of the lamp out.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 25, 2013, 09:50:17 PM
Lots of things here...
Well I've discovered the dim crappy LPF rapid start ballasts also do the dim-glow thing if the primary (red/blue wire) lamp is good but the secondary one is bad or EOL...there's a story there I'll get to later in the "Relamping Stories" thread.
As for troffers, mine have holes left over from knockouts that had little screw-thread things holding the lights together in tandem...which I use for re-lamping. They also have these little slots for removing/installing lamps.
And I moved my indoor garden up under that 3-lamper tonight to get it out of the living room.

Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on November 26, 2013, 07:15:02 PM
well, reported the next streetlight down from me since it's cycling. I'm seeing how long it takes for them to fix it so when i report the light in front of my house I can try to plan to be around when they come to fix it. 8) Hopefully the igniter in the M-250R2 in front of my house doesn't decide to quit... The GE igniters didn't start getting crappy until the mid-to-late 90s though from what I've seen. I've seen older M-250R2s have cycling or dead lamps for years and still work with a new lamp but a lot of mid-to-late 90s to present GEs will die after a lamp cycles for too long. Here the Thomas & Betts 113s commonly get removes because they hold water badly. Most of the arms here are 1 1/4" and i guess they either had a poor bird/weather guard around the slipfitter of the linemen that installed the lights didn't use the guards because the refractors commonly have water in them. The flat door M-250R2s seem to hold water too. I guess it just collects from the rain, yet the water level never seems to rise or lower in the lights.

But yet the M-250R2s that aren't the 1992/1993 flatbottom design rarely collect water. And no OVCs seem to get water or older lights like M-250R1s, M-250As, OV-15s, OV-25s, M-400 split doors, etc. Some Cooper OVZs here installed in the mid 2000s have small amounts of water in the refractors though.

I sometimes report lights with a lot of water and say that they're cycling so that when they service the light (even though it really isn't cycling) they'll drain the water so it doesn't damage the fixture. Usually they'll just empty the water and keep the light up but I guess if the reflector gets damaged (by mold or the shine wears off or something) they replace it. I've noticed lights that are mounted under trees or in between tree branches are more likely to hold water.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 26, 2013, 09:34:10 PM
They changed some HPS lamps in the gym at school and the new ones start up orange and seem oranger while the older ones seem pinkish...less mercury nowadays? I got a couple dead lamps from there though.
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on November 26, 2013, 09:45:36 PM
newer lamps do have less mercury. The older lamps (depending on the manufacturer) started off blue to green and look basically like a clear merc starting up. then the orange would kick in and the lamp would be a dim intense orange like LPS then once all the gases warmed up the lamo would shift to a more whiteish orange. Today's lamps start off a halogen color I've noticed and then go right to the stinky LPS orange phase then to the bright whitish orange color. I don't know if it's true or if it's just me but newer HPS lamps seem to warm up faster than older ones (and die faster too lol)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 27, 2013, 08:41:00 PM
The ones I saw started up with purple flashes at first then went right to orange, while the 80s GE Lulacox lamps started off greyish then went to a blue-green mercury color then went orangeish-pinkish-whitish (xenon) then to the orange, all taking about 5 minutes I'd guess.
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on November 27, 2013, 09:55:04 PM
my Westie 70W BT25 1980 HPS lamp starts off like the first lamp you described, purple flashes and then orange. The older lamps around here are blue-green before they shift to orange like the second lamp you described and yeah I'm thinking they're GE lamps. I think NGrid is using Sylvania lamps now though since they're a lot more yellow and less orange. I personally don't like the color but they seem brighter than the "other" HPS lamps and closer to white.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 28, 2013, 04:45:05 PM
These are EXTREMELY orange...but bright.
Someone was just talking about cell phones on airplanes...ever notice as soon as they arrive at the terminal everyone instantly takes off their seat belts and there's the musak of cell phones powering up...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 29, 2013, 09:27:49 AM
the last time i rode in a plane was the summer before 5th grade (so over 5 years ago) but i believe it lol.

Also, update on my aunt and uncle's preheaters:

They didn't want the daylight Altos. My uncle said one of the switches is faulty (spring inside let go) and he hasn't really had a good look at all the wiring so he doesn't trust them anyways. He said he has one working (i don't know if he meant lamp or fixture...) and he plans to completely rewire the basement. so i didn't give them any more lamps.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 29, 2013, 09:13:50 PM
So does this mean they're yours really soon? GOOD LUCK! I can't wait to see them restored and in use...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 29, 2013, 11:40:14 PM
eh the way things are going it could still be another year or so. I don't know. :( At least they are in a safe place where they are for the time being. i can't wait to see them when they're not tucked up between two joists so i can actually get a decent look at them. :D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 29, 2013, 11:53:31 PM
Yeah I know what you mean...they're probably not going anywhere anytime soon...
Yeah who knows what the top of those lights looks like! I'm guessing with that homebrew suspended ceiling they had some diffuser panels underneath the lights? I've seen that before...a suspended ceiling is installed and existing fixtures above it are turned into makeshift troffers...seems like it'd be dim and a lot of light wasted up there though. Also it was common in the 70s-80s for houses to have a setup like that in the kitchen...F40 striplights above plastic diffuser panels.  My mother's house has such a setup...I'll post a pic in a bit.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 30, 2013, 01:04:11 PM
yeah there were cut up prismatic troffer diffusers under the lights. There were even two "windows" that were on the wall between the room and the rest of the basement that used prismatic troffer lenses. It was a very crude redneck back room lol. The door has a corner carved off because there's a pipe above it that would prevent it from opening all the way. Overall, a very poorly engineered Mr. Fix-It job lol.

Yeah I've seen restaurants with the luminous ceilings. There was one place that used either daylight or 5000K lamps and it really looked nice. The rest of the lights were semi-recessed 2X2 troffers with wood trim around them. The place was originally T12 since i remember the dim flickery F20T12 and F40T12 lamps lol. When they upgraded to T8s they used F17T8s which were much brighter and instead of cool white lamps in the luminous ceiling they used daylight or 5000K T8s. The ceiling had smooth opal diffusers.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 30, 2013, 06:28:00 PM
LOL...I'm guessing there was some of that awful 70s plywood paneling in there too?
Best thing from the 70s IMO is the vintage stereo equipment and rapid start fluorescents!
There's this 1978 Sunset "Remodeling Your Home" book that features some SUPER 70s designs...it's amazing.  One of my neighbor's houses looks like that...tongue-and-groove paneling everywhere you look, red Formica countertop in the kitchen, etc.  It hasn't really been lived in for the last 20 years or so, so there's some perfectly preserved vintage bulbs in there too.
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on November 30, 2013, 08:03:37 PM
yep the walls are fake dark wood lol. the ceiling "tiles" were those grayish paper-ish tackboard (not the ones made out of coark, the older paperboard type)

the house got electricity long after it was built so all the fixtures could be original and perhaps they were bought at different times or they could have been bought at a flea market or yard sale, as no two are the same.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 30, 2013, 10:00:55 PM
Just how old is this house and in how rural-ish of an area?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 30, 2013, 10:14:00 PM
 this is the street  (https://www.google.com/search?q=deanville+road+attleboro+ma&rlz=1C1TGIB_enUS516US516&oq=deanville+road&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0l3.4080j0j7&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8)

when they built I-295 in the 60s they actually took the house off its foundation and MOVED it to where it is now! i don't know when it was constructed though... it has horsehair drywall though if that helps.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 01, 2013, 08:58:47 PM
Oh so they live in MA? I'm guessing it still isn't that fat from you though?
Horsehair drywall? Never heard of that...do you mean lath and plaster?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 01, 2013, 09:47:01 PM
yep mass but right near the RI line. a 30 minute drive from me. yea i think lathe and plaster is the same thing as horse hair plaster.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 02, 2013, 09:53:54 AM
Is the plaster applied over little strips of wood? If so it's lath and plaster.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on December 02, 2013, 12:04:27 PM
Back in the lath and plaster days, hair was often added to the plaster mix to increase it's tensile strength.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 02, 2013, 04:30:41 PM
yeah it's on little wood strips and yep horse hair was added in with the plaster. When was this method used? That might help you figure out when the house was built. I can always ask my aunt and uncle the next time i see them. they could probably give me a brief history of the house.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 02, 2013, 09:06:28 PM
I'm not sure when Sheetrock was invented (Much less came into wide use) but I'd say pre-1960 for sure.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 02, 2013, 10:50:19 PM
ahh well in the ballpack range i think the house is about 100 years old.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on December 03, 2013, 07:51:26 PM
IIRC lath and plaster was largely gone after WWII as drywall was both easier to install and took less time to install. Some 50s era plaster jobs used metal lath instead of wood lath.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 03, 2013, 08:36:51 PM
Now that you mention it I've heard of metal lath too...seems much more fireproof!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on December 04, 2013, 12:49:54 AM
I've seen it used quite a bit in 1950s and 1960s commercial/institutional buildings, especially on curved surfaces. Not so much in houses though.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 04, 2013, 09:52:39 AM
Sounds really useful for curved surfaces...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on December 04, 2013, 02:47:57 PM
It seems in more modern construction they curve the drywall instead of resorting to lath and plaster though.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 04, 2013, 06:33:31 PM
how do they curve it without breaking it? soaking it in water? my school is mostly cinderblock with steel ceiling joists on the inside with huge yellowish concrete panels on the outside walls, though the corners of the school (it's a square doughnut shape) are red brick). the inside walls facing the outside (so walls with windows) seem to be some sort of older style sheetrock that seems to have warped over the years, making the individual boards of sheetrock visable due to cracking along the seams. the new C2 wing is all drywall on the interior and red brick on the outside. the drywall has patches in it in the hallway from kids punching holes in it. :8)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 05, 2013, 10:06:08 AM
I'm not sure.
I like flat (non-textured) drywall but I must admit texturing it hides flaws.  A texture of sorts can even be achieved by painting on drywall mud with a paint roller. (Although the result isn't super-professional looking). The only texture I don't like is the "Popcorn" ceilings!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 07, 2013, 10:49:15 PM
All kinds of electrical stories to share from the past couple days...
-I scored another Norelco F40CW that appeared to be NOS.  However, I don't think it has vacuum.  (It won't even light on a F32T8 ballast with 560v OCV which will in my experience get at least some action out of anything with vacuum and at least some electrode remnants (Although a bad lamp left like that WILL lose vacuum eventually.) If I had a NST I'd try that but I don't.  Oh, well.  I have one just like it already.
-I also relamped a light at school that went out right above my head during my lunch break the other day.  I was sitting there eating my lunch when it started pulsing and then went to dim-flickering.  The offending lamp was a GE Watt-Miser. A couple days later the janitor and I stuck in a Sylvania 5000K lamp. 
-I replaced my house battery bank today. (I'm off the grid as you know.)  It was getting to the point that the batteries wouldn't last the night without them getting so low the inverter would shut itself off.  The old ones had a manufacture date of 2/11...so over 2 years of daily service...those can only take so many charge/discharge cycles.  Hope the new identical batteries will do just as well.  I'd had two more batteries to add on to the existing two but that never happened and once these started dying we just stuck those in service.  You're not supposed to mix new and older deep-cycle lead-acid batteries more than a year in age I think so after buying them this summer we decided not to. If you do it will drag the "floating" voltage (What the battery will sit at without much load when fully charged) down to the level of the other ones.  If the older ones are still healthy that will be fine but these were past their prime so it would end up ruining a brand new pair.  I've been running my generator all day since replacing them so tonight when I shut it off will be the test...we'll see.
-Here's one I'm excited about.  So my neighbor and I went over to their storage (another whole 2-bedroom house full to the rafters of tools, etc.) looking for an impact driver. While looking around upstairs I discovered...get this...a 2-lamp F96T12 slimline fixture- I've always wanted one of those.  It has a pair of 60w Sylvania SuperSavers.  I couldn't tell if they were Eco ones or not since I didn't study it very long and it was pretty dark in there.  There were also a couple LOA shoplights.  I commented, "You collect fluorescent lights too!".  I may try to get this one sometime in the future.  Assuming the ballast is rated for those 60w energy-savers I'll keep using them till they die, then go with 75w daylight or 5000K lamps.  Come to think of it, the two nearest home improvement centers I frequent (Not even all that often; a few times a year) don't sell F96T12s IIRC...at least not on display.  They could probably special-order a case for me but that might be pricy so I'll probably jus wait until those lamps die, and then the light will probably sit dormant for awhile till I come across some (preferably 75w) lamps.  I'm still kinda excited; I've always wanted one of those! If I end up with it it will go either in my room or in my garage. 
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on December 08, 2013, 10:53:50 AM
wow sounds like you had a busy last few days. to bad on the Norelco lamp. I've still never laid eyes on a norelco lamp. And to think they were made not extrememly far away in Lynn, MA. I mean, it's a good two hour drive at least but it's not like they were only made in California or some place far away. I guess Norelco wasn't a major brand here in North America until they (Philips) aquired Westinghouse in the 80s?

the campsite i was at this weekend had three vaportight F96T12 two lamp fixtures in each cabin (two cabins). all had cool white alto lamps.

you might want to get those F96T12s ASAP because i believe they're planning to fully cut them out of the equation within the next few years. i don't even know if they make the 75W lamps in any color temperature besides ~4100K. some places have stopped selling them period. Benny's (a locally owned hardware store chain) near me sells the 8ft T12s still but i don't know if they're full mercury or if they're supersavers or 75W. they also still sell the Sylvania CWP lamps IIRC and they sell F32T8s as well but they're like 4 bucks a lamp compared to 2.99 for a two pack of F40T12s
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 08, 2013, 05:15:57 PM
I went to a Home Depot this summer and they had only 75w slimlines, albeit Altos.  There were "Cool White Supreme" and "Daylight Deluxe".  I'd opt for the latter color personally. 
Yeah Norelco didn't have a very big market share it seems compared to GE and Sylvania and Westinghouse.
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on December 08, 2013, 05:57:08 PM
 Ahh so they do still make the daylight F96T12s then? it's a shame that they're thinning our selection of 4ft and 8ft T12 lamps. Honestly I'd get the cool whites since they just seem to "match" every application better than other color temperatures. Daylight lamps get higher lumens though IIRC, at least visable lumens. They have better CRI too i think. My grandpa has a box of 60W CWX Sylvania SuperSavers at his shop but to be honest i think the Altos at Home Deopt would be better since they'd be much brighter. If he converted the slimlines to T8 with 1.15 ballast factor ballasts, the increase in the amount of light would be amazing. But I don't see him wanting to do a conversion. To be honest I think he wants to let go of the shop but he just can't let himself let go because his shop and fixing cars is everything to him.

It's nice to see all those T12s still in use but the shop is underlit with them and rather than add additional fixtures, converting the existing ones to T8 is a more economical and practical choice. Plus i'd rather convert them and keep the ballasts than see a future owner just scrap the lights and replace them all.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 08, 2013, 08:29:38 PM
I agree.  Although it can be interesting when more modern fixtures are added to the mix! 60w CWX lampa will be exteremely dim though.  I'd use them up but then I'd buy 75w CWS lamps in your case. 
Maybe if he sells the shop you could convert the lights and save the old lamps and ballasts.  I'd replace at least one fixture entirely so you have a nice 8' slimline fixture and a lifetime supply of lamps and ballasts for it!
I think the Supersavers in my neighbors are cool white and pre-Ecologic but briefly looking at them with fading daylight (It was in the evening) through the windows in a house that is unlived in and power is unavailable didn't show the details.  I'd love to get it though- I've always wanted an 8' slimline since I started  collecting fluorescents and have always kept my eye out for one.  That would make my day, along with a F40 preheat fixture.
I think DX is dimmer than D just like CWX is dimmer than CW.  I think DX at least used to be deluxe halophosphate like CWX.  IIRC the DX F40s I saw at HD had a CRI of like 83 or 87 or something.  I have no idea what the older DX was, along with the original D.
I'm also curious what the new Soft White Deluxe is like compared to WW. 
Yeah my godfather wants to put T5s up in his woodshop and I've already said if the old slimlines come down and are headed for the landfill I'd be interested. You know how they make that THUMP! sound when turned on? Six of those on the same switch scares the cr@p out of me every time I go in there and turn on the lights!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 08, 2013, 08:40:45 PM
Also I forgot to mention that I've always been a fan of the 8 footers even before I totally knew what they were.  Another favorite childhood memory that AFAIK is probably still in existence is my old neighbor's machine shop.  That place had a bunch of slimlines with the cr@ppy 60w energy saver lamps (GE-made True Value brand cool whites) and when you go in there and turn on the lights it looks like cool white firelight on the walls with all those lamps flickering and striating, even in the summer along with the THUMPhummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm when turned on.  As a kid I was so fascinated by that.  This neighbor was also into electrical and small engines and off-grid power systems and had lots of preheat CFLs back in the day.  I still see them occasionally when I occasionally drive up there to see what became of the house I lived in there (Since torn down).  I may have to mention my interest in fluorescent lights still exists (Had it as a kid in the early 2000s.) and comment on the slimlines and how 75w lamps will work so much better.  Several of the fixtures are my (oddly enough favorite since they're kinda boring) striplight style and a couple are "Troffer" looking ones IIRC...haven't been in there in a couple years.  I remember thinking the latter were preheat at one time.  Now I know those huge exposed ballasts (ballast covers were missing) to be magnetic instant-start slimlines.  I've never seen those two lit.  They also had a (MH)? lowbay in there at one point.  I saw my first EOL preheat lamp (a PL13) in that room!
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on December 08, 2013, 09:00:19 PM
yeah he's got some of the CWA supersavers in use and they're dim and purple. they look like EOL at first, then you realize "oh it's just a CWX lamp". there were prealto 75W Philips lamps in the box too and i used those when i relamped his slimlines last year. they're at least nice and bright and full mercury. Once they're gone they're gone though. If I were to save an 8ft fixture it'd be one of the two HOs. Then maybe a slimline after that. If I were to replace the fixture i'd pay for it though since it's more than just replacing the ballast. If he wants to sell the shop he's not going to want to pay to have the lights converted and I don't want to pay for it either lol. The preheater in the bathroom is a real gem though so i'm replacing it out of my pocket (the replacement fixture was 5 bucks from the restore, a pair of 3500K lamp was 10 bucks, and the ballast was around 10-15 bucks so no more than 30 bucks total and it's got a GE ballast not an accupro or some other inferior piece of crap.

Hmm. i never noticed the THUMP when slimline turn on. I'm sure i hear it but don't think anything of it. I know slimlines like to be noisey though. Probably the noisiest fluoresent ballasts out there. I have a Philips Alto Soft White Kitchen and Bath lamp (2 actually) and they're a little more of a yellow-brown compared to /W lamps. And not pink at all compared to /WW. And the CRI is better too though because of the nature of the light your skin looks a little tanner compared to a high CRI cool white or daylight lamp.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 08, 2013, 10:10:32 PM
Were the old Philips ones pre-Epact with the F96T12/CW ordering code?
I'd save an HO light and a slimline personally...
Yeah for fixtures like the bathroom a cheap shoplight from Restore would do the trick IMO...
What slimline lamps do you plan to buy next?
Did you ever compare that Alto soft white to a 2700K CFL?
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on December 09, 2013, 05:32:29 PM
I don't remember. they had the sheild logo and were pre-alto. I think they were mid-to-late 90s lamps for post-epact probably. they had the bolded PHILIPS logo on them.

He buys the lamps for his shop, not me. I think the 60W supersavers are enough to keep him covered until he retires but if for some reason we need new lamps he'd get whatever is at Home Depot. Since the existing lamps are of the cool white variety he'd probably want cool white (though he'll go for whatever is cheaper).

If we do somehow end up doing a T8 conversion, we'd use 3500K slimline lamps and cool white 4ft lamps (again, only  because those are the cheapest) and they'd be altos. However, for his bathroom, i picked out 3500K F32T8 altos since that cold unpainted cinderblock bathroom with crap stuffed in every little noom and cranny for storage needs some warmth to it lol. even if the seat is cold in the winter at least the light is warm lol. he doesn't have hot water at the shop to my knowledge. the only thing that would need it would be the bathroom sink and it doesn't have hot water so guess he doesn't need it. After having the same owner since the 70s I'm sure the building has some code violations.

No haven't gotten to it yet. I completely forgot that you asked me to be honest. I'll grab a pic after supper.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 09, 2013, 10:00:19 PM
Hmm interesting...or I guess you could replace two fixtures, one HO and one slimline, with modern ones, so you'd have a couple 8 footers for yourself...
I guess even that preheater could have 3500K lamps put in...and yeah I'm sure there are code violations.
But good luck, especially that preheater!
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on December 09, 2013, 10:40:12 PM
well the replacement 4X F32T8 8ft tandem lights are 50 bucks each at Home Depot so that'd be 100 bucks without the lamps. Meh i suppose i could stick 3500K lamps in the preheater but the cool whites in it are doing fine and don't appear to have much blackening. I think the lamps in it are GE. I know at least one is. the other might be a service long life garenteed or sylvania. i couldn't see any of the etches. one lamp lights instantly and the other comes on about 30 seconds later. it doesn't make any blinking (well none that's noticable), it just comes right on. the one that instant starts doesn't blink at all either. if it's original to the building it's from ~1940 so it could have one of those massive tulamp ballasts.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 09, 2013, 11:27:33 PM
Oh wow, that's ANCIENT! I'M sure 100 bucks is cheaper than a bunch of ballasts...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 10, 2013, 07:08:00 AM
yeah! very old. :o  100 bucks would be fore two fixtures. All the ballasts for all the slimlines would be about 150-200 bucks (so still cheaper than 50 bucks per fixture). it wouldn't make sense to convert some fixtures and not all of them.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 10, 2013, 08:40:38 PM
Yeah you're right.  I'm just thinking if you really wanted a slimline or HO fixture that's what you could do...but it'd be better to replace one, convert the others, and have a fixture of each type and spare ballasts and lamps too.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 11, 2013, 11:37:22 PM
I did my first vacuum-loss fluorescent EOL tonight.  I'd read on here that you can take a multitap HID ballast and use the 240v or 277v taps to get that higher voltage with the ballast wired to 120v like norma acting like a step-up transformer.  For some time now I've had a 277v Advance T8 ballast with a whopping 600v OCV.  So I wired one of the 400w MH highbay heads I have to 120v and took the "hot" for the ballast off the 277v tap, then hooked it up to the regular neutral (It's now occurring to me...is that sending 277v into the 120v neutral?) I wasn't sure how to connect it to neutral so I took my chances but ran it in series with a 100w incandescent first to make sure I wasn't wiring a direct short. Since I could hear the MH ballast buzz and the incandescent ran dimmer I knew that first test checked out OK.  I then tried the first lamp, a GE 34w cool white Watt-Miser (My preferred tester lamps).  It worked like normal and even striated a bit like it should.  I then threw an EOL F15T8 at the setup (Well, not litterally) and got about 20 mintutes of swirling and arcing.  I also turned it on and off a bunch of times (Well unplugging the extension cord wired to the MH ballast). I got some video of it but not the vacuum loss part with violent orange flashing.
Now I have an EOL Sylvania Design 50 F15T8 in there...we'll see how long that takes. (It's not running as I type). It seems to run nonviolently though...no arcing or swirling or characteristic purple glow at the "bad" end. 
I will then try some 4' lamps and see what they do.  I have a couple spent F40s I ran on that shunted Universal Therm-o-Matic ballast that I got some good action out of but they still dim-glow and still have vacuum so I want to try them. 
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on December 12, 2013, 06:22:00 PM
I thought the neutral should be zero volts... I don't know too much about the physics behind electricity (we've learned in school that it's the movement of electrons but I mean I don't know the technical information all too well). I'm good with basic wiring and stuff but I don't have the mathematical mind to figure out what's going to happen when I do an experiment lol. I just figure if I screw up the circuit breaker will trip and then I know it's time to fix something lol.

I bet it was a fun show to watch! I got to witness a GE F32T8/CW EcoLux lamp go EOL in the hallway at school a few weeks ago. One end was purple and it was flickering dimly and making a SZZZZZZZZZ sound. Kids were looking up at it like "WTF?" lol. When I came back later it was out though and its working partner was still going. My guess is eventually the lamp either lost vacuum or the ballast's thermal protection tripped and then when it reset the EOL lamp just stayed out. The EcoLux lamps never fail to impress with EOL shows lol. Philips lamps tend to just glow orangey at one end.


My dad actually asked ME if I could mount a fluorescent light or two in the garage for additional light! O_O He said we need more light out there since it's too dim out there. My brother is in Cub Scouts (I'm in Boy Scouts; Cub Scouts is bacially pre-Boy Scouts) and my parents are the leaders so sometimes they do projects in the garage during meetings and it's not really bright enough and often your shadow will block the light so you can't really see what you're doing. I'll see if I can mount a few lights in there. You'll be able to so open-heart surgery in the garage when I do the relighting project lol. The main reason there are no fluorescents in there yet is because it's a finished ceiling so I'll need to borrow a stud finder (or I can take the time and figure out which side of the junction box is mounted to a stud and mount the fixture on that one stud but even then there's no way to be positive that I followed the studd properly.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 13, 2013, 01:07:42 AM
I'm not sure.  I wish I had a Kill-A-Watt meter to see what the setup is using for power...not very much though...you can hear it in my generator when I fire that 400w MH up! Same here...but in my case if it tripped the whole house would go dark, much to the annoyance of other people, so...
Yeah I bet people had their phones out filming that thing..."Fluorescent Light Epic Fail"!
That ballast would make that BIZZZZZZ when it was arcing really bad in this case too...
I had a 3500K Sylvania Octron in my bathroom light die earlier this year with the purple glow.  I leave the light on in there a lot and I was going in and out so I didn't get to witness the very end...but like an hour later I went back in there and noticed it was out, so I stuck a pair of 34w T12 GE Watt-Misers in there since I didn't have any extra F32T8 lamps at that point.  They work fine so even though I later found a pair of T8 lamps in the trash along with that F40CW Mainlighter I have (the working one) I've left them there.  When they die I'll stick T8s back in though.
If it were me I might leave the existing bare-bulb ceramic sockets there, and tap into their junction boxes from up in the attic to run Romex to the new lights.  I would suggest mounting them perpendicular to the joists, with long enough screws to reach into the joists pretty far so they can't pull out of the drywall.  Drywall screws work just fine for this.  So you'll have the existing incandescents plus the new lights. 
A stud finder is the best way for sure although I've never used one.  Knocking on the drywall can give you a ballpark idea too, between joists it will sound hollow.  Climbing up in the attic to see what side the boxes are on is another surefire way IMO since the joists should be on a standardized spacing of 16 inches or 24 inches on center (from the center of one joist to the center of the next).  So you could measure it out from there.  If it's not enough you could screw a wood 1x... plank to the ceiling into the joists and mount the light too that.  This would be a good idea for a heavy preheater or something...
Which fixtures do you plan to use?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 13, 2013, 04:00:21 PM
I installed that 277v Advance ballast in an old ballastless shoplight I had to clean up the setup a bit.  It still requires an external 277v power supply (namely a 400w MH multitap ballast).  The shoplight sits on top of a shelf with the MH ballast sitting below it in the corner of the room, out of the way.  I might redo it so there's no open wirenut splices of 277v out in open air and shorten the cord the ballast plugs into the wall with. 
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on December 13, 2013, 06:58:05 PM
the living room is above the garage so there's no space up there to snoop around. What I'd do is install a duples outlet in the round junction box and run the fluorescent fixtures' cords into the outlet. I'd suspend the fixtures, using screw-in hooks to hold them up. I'll probably initially install the NOS Cooper Metalux F40/RS fixture, using the 34W tubes. They'll suck in the winter but since its the only fixture i feel safe using them in I'll use those lamps. Once I get the preheaters from my aunt and uncles I'll stick them in there and retire the Metalux. I don't know how many fixtures my dad would allow but I'm going to aim for three or four.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 13, 2013, 08:18:11 PM
Suspending is an even BETTER idea! With one duplex outlet you could have two fixtures, so you'll have 4 fixtures total.  
For now you could use that Metalux turret, with the 34w lamps, that other fixture from Restore with the Universal Therm-O-Matic ballast, along with it's twin until it goes to your grandpa's shop.  Then use the single-lamp WWII one for the 4th light.  When you get the preheater out of your grandpa's shop bathroom it can replace the T8-converted one.  When you get the other three preheaters they can go in there...there's 4 of those right? I'm assuming you'll take them with you when you move out though and just stick up some T8 "shoplite" fixtures that also plug in?
Oh and today one of the SP41 GE Residential Light lamps in the troffer above my computer wouldn't start up all the way.  I went to replace it and the already-broken lampholder also broke even more...so I replaced it, and stuck a better cord on the fixture cut to just the right length.  The other (new) lamp is a  90s Sylvania Workshop F40.
And that 277v Advace ballast is running a spent GE Chroma 50 right now.  This room is VERY loud with buzzing but that's because there's a 400w MH ballast acting as a step-up transformer...plus three other magnetic RS F40 ballasts running!
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on December 13, 2013, 10:12:42 PM
yeah flush mounting is a PITA plus the fixtures are all designed for suspended mount or have suspension kits added. Yep four outlets plus there's a duples outlet up there already (for the garage door opener) which has a spare outlet. Four lights is way more than enough though. Yeah i suppose i could use those lights. the Restore Therm-o-matic shoplite is all taped up (so no bugs live in it) and is in the shed, tucked away til spring. The one that's converted to T8 isn't wired to to a cord. I could use the WWII one but the cord is litterally 3" long outside of the fixture, since i cut it just long enough to reach the junction box if the light were to be mounted right under the box, centered.

Yep, there are four F40T12 lights at my aunt and uncles house but only two of them will be mine (one's Joe's and one's Aaron's). There's also a F20T12 fixture that will be nice since I have like 50+ F20T12 lamps to burn through lol. Perhaps I'll stick a couple F20 fixtures out there for the time being.

I plan to have the two fixtures from my aunts and uncles, the bathroom light from my grandpa's shop, and I guess if I can, I'll keep the Metalux turret as the fourth unless I get another fixture.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 14, 2013, 04:01:25 PM
Yeah the Metalux turret is a certainty for now IMO...the T8 converted light could be wired to a cord, as could be the one with the Universal ballast.  The WWII one could have a longer cord installed.  The bathroom preheater would eventually replace the T8 one, and the other two basement preheaters would replace the Therm-O-Matic one and the Metalux turret.  I guess you could leave the single-lamp one or replace it with the turret so they're all dual lamp fixtures.  Or take the tulamp preheater from the laundry room and either put the single-lamper back in there or the Metalux turret...just my ideas but it's up to you of course, it's your garage. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 15, 2013, 11:42:35 AM
The WWII one is a real PITA to open up so I don't want to do any work to it unless I really have to. I could install it right under the junction box though. The therm-o-matic shoplite is in the shed and there's a few inches of snow on the ground here so i can't get to the shed anyways (well i could but it's that slushy wet crap that will paralyse my feet if i go trudging though it lol)

For now just the Metalux fixture and maybe the WWII single lamp unit will go up. I bought these really industrial hooks so really I could mount a highbay in there if they let me (which they wouldn't though) lol.


After I have all the fixtures, I plan on it being the two fixtures from my aunt and uncle's basement, the bathroom preheater from my grandpa's, and I'm leaving the fourth fixture open for whatever if I decide on having a fourth fixture installed (and they let me). Plus, the good thing about installing the fixtures with hooks and having them plug in, is that I can change the fixtures whenever I want to! (well, as long as the car is out of the garage lol)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 17, 2013, 09:02:15 PM
Yeah three should be enough...but I'm of the type that would have like 10 in there LOL...I have four 4' lights in my garage/workshop and there's still dark spots...a Lithiona F32T8 wraparound with 3500K Ecolux lamps, a Lithiona shoplight with one of those weird capacitive kinda-preheat-kinda-rapid-start ballasts with a pair of 1999 Philips "Home Light" 4100K triphosphor lamps that were originally in the next fixture...a 90s Lithiona wraparound that had a MagneTek LPF ballast that died...when that happened I moved the Philips lamps to that shoplight, stuck in a crappy Radionic LPF ballast from another light, and it currently has one Sylvania Cool White Plus lamp and an ACE (GE) F40CW from the early 90s.  Then there's that cool old 1970s Sears shoplight with a HPF GE Bonusline ballast and Sylvania Cool White Plus lamps. 
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on December 17, 2013, 10:22:14 PM
well the most lights i can have in there without having to add hardwiring is four since there are two fixture boxes in there and i can fit two outlets (one duples outlet) per fixture juction box so four fluorescents total which, for a single car garage, is plenty of light.

We're gonna do the project over my xmas break. I think what I'll do is install two fixtures for now (the metalux and the two lamp preheater that's now in the laundry room) and put the single lamp WWII fixture back in the laundry room until i get more two lamp fixtures.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 18, 2013, 08:46:45 PM
Sounds like a plan...or you could take that 1973 rapid start shoplight from the utility room and put it in there and stick the single-lamper in there so you have both rapid start lights there and both preheat lights in the basement...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 18, 2013, 08:50:11 PM
I'm going to leave the 1973 light where it is only because there are soem boxes right next to it so if i mounted any thother light, the fixture would be in the way. the '73 shoplite is JUST shallow enough so that the boxes just brush the bottom of the reflector sides when we take the boxes down. The way I have it mounted makes it a PITA to remove too.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 19, 2013, 08:31:53 PM
Okay I see...what about that Restore light with the Universal ballast though? I'm just thinking having preheat and rapid start lights in the same room might be a little weird...but it's up to you.
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on December 19, 2013, 10:36:50 PM
nah preheat and RS together would be cool because then you can easily compare the two.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 20, 2013, 12:21:16 AM
OK you have a point...or you and your friends could make bets with each other, "Which will light first"? Be sure to take pics, though! Preferably even a YT vid of the startup!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on December 20, 2013, 01:56:56 AM
Nah, get like a six lamp troffer and have ever starting method under the sun in the same fixture. Bit odd to see a fixture with preheat, magnetic RS, ,magnetic IS, electronic RS, electronic IS, electronic programmed start firing up though.
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on December 20, 2013, 04:32:28 PM
what friends? lol Yeah, I may get a video and definetly pics. I'm going to set up the hooks so that four fixtures can be mounted well. I'm only going to install two fixtures at the moment though. The other one will stay an incandescent keyless fixture until I get another round JB duplex outlet wallplate.

lol a hexapolar fixture would be interesting lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 21, 2013, 10:24:35 AM
So two lights on just that side? I see...
Also I guess the incandescent will light as soon as the switch is flipped providing some instant light and also would help until the fluorescents warm up on a cold winter night or something. I'm sure (knowing you) it'll eventually be replaced with a fluorescent too...
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on December 21, 2013, 03:57:42 PM
yeah they'll be mounted sort of in the middle of the garage but slightly more towards the big door (I'll have to make sure there's enough clearance between the garage door and the bottoms of the fixtures when the door is raised). The fixtures will be mounted inline with each other (not touching end-to-end but they'll be inline across the garage). I can't explain well so i'll draw up a diagram and upload it lol.

Yeah i'd eventually like four fixtures out there but i don't know if my dad will allow me. they might use "too much electricity". Eh, I'll take what i can get lol...

I was also pondering on whether to replace the M-250A in my backyard with the OVC. I don't know... I kinda miss my M-250A (LOL) but I don't know if I want to have the orangey light in the backyard. None of my fixtures have ballasts that are interchangeable (the 250W MH Advance ballast kinda fits in my M-250R1 but that's the only one that really fits) so i can't do a ballast transplant lol. I'm pretty sure the OV-10 is too heavy for the pole.

Seeing how my pole is pretty wimpy out back, I was wondering if maybe I should upgrade my pole with a more suitable one this summer... Maybe an EMT conduit pole like the one in my bedroom? I don't know....
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 21, 2013, 08:38:36 PM
I would, and/or install that Westy RMA out there. 
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on December 21, 2013, 10:11:41 PM
I was thinking the RMA but I want to light my yard not the sides of my neighboors' houses lol. I do have some custom made glare sheilds though that i can pop in there.

Then there's the fact that my RMA is in my closet because I have no other place for it. If i put it on the pole outback and take the M-250A inside, I'll need to put one of my other lights out in the shed since a cobrahead wouldn't fit in my closet. I'd probably resolve to putting the OV-25 in the shed since it's not HID right now (someday I'll try to locate a 400W MV or MH remote ballast for it).

I dunno. I don't want to stick any of my NOS lights out there so the R1s are out of the equation. The M-400A2s and OV-10 are too heavy. So that leaves the RMA, OVC, M-250A, and maybe the OV-25, though it's not HID. I suppose I could remote ballast it though for 175W MV if I can find a suitable ballast box. That would be interesting. Unfortunatly I never kept that other remote ballast box i had. i don't have the ballast either. I'm likely getting a HPS OV-15 Tudor FCO sometime next year so maybe that can go outside. I'll need to troubleshoot the fixture though as it won't light a lamp.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 22, 2013, 09:44:27 PM
Or install the RMA in the garage on a seperate switch with a newer lamp...like right over the workbench if there is one. That would be a conversation piece when people see that instead of a cheap chain-suspended shoplight.
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on December 22, 2013, 11:28:12 PM
lol yeah my parents wouldn't allow a street light installed anywhere in the house but my room (and that was after lots of convincing lol) i don't have a workbench anywhere. we keep the car in the garage too so there's not much wiggle room. when my dad needs to do something out there he moves the car but that's not often.

i'm likely going to the restore this thursday. 8) :D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 23, 2013, 08:50:45 PM
Nice! Maybe you'll find four nice 4-lamp F40 preheat fixtures for the garage for only a few dollars each!  Or maybe some older RS shoplights with GE Bonusline, Advance Kool-Koil, or our favorite Universal Therm-O-Matic ballasts!!! Or at least some cool old lamps of some sort.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 23, 2013, 10:23:07 PM
LOL that'd be nice! thanks for the enthusiasm. 8) I'm happy with walking out with a few lamps if that's all they have... i'm guessing there'll be a few fixtures. there always is... I seem to be the only one who buys them lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 24, 2013, 08:23:53 PM
Good luck! Also look for other cool non-lighting things like old radios, stereo tuners/amplifiers, etc.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 24, 2013, 08:26:56 PM
Oh and also I think my spent GE Chroma 50 on that 277v Advance electronic ballast is in it's final hours...it is now in what I will dub, "Swirly Mode". No blue glow or orange flashing yet, though.  It's pretty black on both ends and I know it sat EOL dim-glowing on HPF rapid start for a long time.   (I wonder if both ends will get that violent orange flashing LOL?)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 24, 2013, 08:45:45 PM
...and on my modified-sine-wave inverter with low line voltage (102-108v on average) it starts up kinda like a rapid start! The MH ballasts sounds like the proverbial angry hornet's nest though...I wonder if that would wake me up in the morning if it was with a 400w MH lamp on a timer?
It starts with a blue glow at both ends which then disappears.  I got a video of it doing this but I don't know how well it came out.  Sine looking right at the lamp with the camera would be deceptive on brightness I did some shots of the ceiling, etc. to give an idea of how the brightness is.  If you see the blue flash at one or both at partial brightness upon startup that's often one of the early signs of an approaching EOL...one of the 34w GE Watt-Misers in my bathroom light (on a T8 ballast) does that sometimes now.  A lamp on magnetic rapid start that has a broken cathode or doesn't have both pins inserted all the way can do that too...I had a GE Mainlighter do that once and I couldn't figure out WHY for the life of me at first!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 24, 2013, 09:40:34 PM
ahh EOL shows are always cool. I've only seen one decent EOL show and it was at school a couple months ago.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 25, 2013, 02:14:46 PM
I've seen a few fairly spectacular ones but the best was that Lights of America F15T8/CW I finished off recently...I have lots of EOL 4' lamps to fry though. (They won't light, or rectify on rapid start anymore but will on an electronic instant-start ballast)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 25, 2013, 09:15:22 PM
I went to my aunt and uncle's house today (the ones that have my aunt's mom's house attached with the three preheaters in the garage).

It turns out there are THREE MORE preheaters that looks exactly the same in the basement! One had TWO cool white Duro-Test lamps! The other has two Westinghouse F40/CW lamps. The last one was lampless but had two lamps leaning up against the wall, a Westie F40/CW, and a GE 34W red-etched MISER lamp. Not a watt-miser, just miser...

When were the lamps marked "MISER"? The wattage isn't big either, just a small 34, though the lamp is red etched. I'm guessing 1980s?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 25, 2013, 10:28:25 PM
Nice! Are they Powertwists?
The "Miser" is a warm white lamp I think...try lighting it (albeit briefly in the preheat fixture). Did that Westy look blackened? I'm wondering if that Miser cooked that preheat ballast?
Try to get those lights someday!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 25, 2013, 10:31:26 PM
Forgot to mention...yeah that'd be an 80s GE lamp.  It was marketed toward residential use. 
I added a second lamp to that lamp-fryer shoplight...I wired it in paralell and startup is unpredicaable! Sometimes one lamp, sometimes, the other, sometimes both (albeit at reduced power) A lamp about to lose vacuum will not get the full zap with both lit.  With just one going a very spent GE Mainlighter lasted like 10 seconds! Another didn't last much longer (albeit an inside-etched 1976 cool white one but it was EOL so what the heck I guess) I have another GE Chroma 50 swirling away with both going as I type.
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on December 25, 2013, 10:55:45 PM
Nope normal F40/CW tubes with GE endcaps. They aren't blackend when they're off but when they're on they are blue-gray on the ends. I don't know if the Miser lamp was a warm white... I didn't check the etch very well i guess afterall lol. I guess i automatically assumed it was cool white... the westy had some visable blackening but didn't look EOL. She said the lamps fell over (but they didn't appear to have any physical damage on the outside) so i don't know if they work. The Miser lamp looked to have pretty low hours.

The fixtures down there are the same as the ones in the garage but the ones down there looked to be in much better shape. I doubt the miser lamp cooked the ballast since those things are pretty tough and since the Miser lamp has little blackening, it likely wasn't used long enough to really damage the ballast (though i know dead fixtures often have the tubes intentionally removed so who knows...) since you know how fast GE lamps tend to blacken...

ahh Andy the lamp killer doing his work eh? (lol just kidding). i'm debatign wether or not to spend $40 on a box of 10 Sylvania Design 50 lamps. i head they're the best F40T12 lamps on the market nowadays but 40 bucks for 10 lamps is a little steep for me. I have plenty of giftcard money for lowe's but i don't know if i want to blow most of it on 10 lamps...

Yeah i'd like to get all six of those fixtures. The three in the garage are in rougher shape and they have replacement fixtures still awaiting installation so i can get those with no penny no harm (if i can get permission, which should be easy). The three in the basement I'll need to buy replacement fixtures for and T8 lamps to go in them. I'm sure something at the restore will pop up though that i can pop in as a replacement.

For the time being, the three lights out in the garage are all still going string with the new lamps and starters. the ones in the basement all work with the lamps that they have (well i dunno about the lampless one but i have no reason to doubt it)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 26, 2013, 02:42:53 PM
okay at the restore today there was really nothing much there. it looks like someone grabbed everything but a couple things. i ended up getting a 4X F20T12 fixture with one of those white puff diffuser things. the ballasts are 1994 Magneteks and are dim as all hell. i also bought a 4X F40T12 fixture for the nice two rapid start ballast. then i get home and find one four lamp F32T8 ballast inside it. >:( it came with four F40T12 lamps, 3 of which are dead. the F20 puff fixture came with two sylvania cool whites.

So for ballasts i have a 4X F32T8 Advance and a 2X F32T8 Sylvania today. For lamps I brought home the two Sylvanias (one won't start in the 4X f20 fixture but will start ad flash in a single lamp strip). I also got a GENERAL (GE) ELECTRIC F40CW lamp that was dead through and through (has a ball shaped group of cracks near the electrode). I also got two GE F40/CW RESIDENTIAL LIGHT lamps. Can those be used on full power ballasts? One of them is totally dead. And lastly i got a F40/CW HOME LIGHT Altolamp from 2005 that's pretty dead. It's not entirely dead but it won't light up for the most part. the etch end with the electrode guard is blue when lit and the lamp is black on that end.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on December 26, 2013, 05:14:12 PM
Yeah, those LPF two lamps F20 ballasts are notorious for underdriving lamps. If you can find it, the HPF versions are much better but I don't think two would fit in a 2X2 fixture. 4 preheat ballasts should fit though and then you get the bonus of watching four tubes startup.

Another option would be to retrofit to T8 using the four lamp ballast you also got.  Was the four lamp fixture a newer or a older fixture.

IIRC F40 Residential Light tubes are just rebranded SP 41 tubes so they should work on full power ballasts.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 26, 2013, 06:05:49 PM
yeah the HPF ballasts are much better but they wouldn't fit. preheat would be cool but there aren't enough KOs for starters. how dare you suggest instant start HF T8. :P lol. the 2ft fixture has ballasts that date to September 1994 and the 4ft fixture is a lithonia that looks to be factory T8 though it could easily be converted to T12 since it has two ballast mounts and a full sized ballast channel (which is why i thought it was T12, especially since it had T12 lamps. i didn't think to check the ballast :8) ) the fixture was warped though so i'm not keeping it. the sockets are shunted sockets. I'll keep them though.

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 26, 2013, 08:59:57 PM
Oh well.  What about using it to replace a preheater somewhere? Just a thought...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 26, 2013, 10:02:47 PM
using the 2ft fixture? Nah It's a cool light so i'd like to keep it. i'll use it someday... it'd make a good kitchen light down the road maybe at my own house...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 26, 2013, 10:19:36 PM
I meant the 4-lamper.  I know it lacks a diffuser but that'd be fine for a garage or something.
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on December 26, 2013, 11:54:52 PM
ahh. i guess i could've. i had to fold it up so it'd fit in the recycling bin. I try to fold up the lights i get rid of so they'll fit in the recylcing since i'd hate to see the metal end up at the dump instead. i kept the ballast and sockets though.
'v
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 27, 2013, 01:22:58 PM
Ahh okay...I've also gutted lights for parts.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 27, 2013, 02:40:42 PM
today i replaced one of the keyless ceramic sockets in the garage with the duplex outlet. I also located the studs and figured out how I want to arrange the two lights. I'll post a drawing of it on the LG later today.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 27, 2013, 04:04:42 PM
Which is going up first? The turret light I assume? Most importantly...have fun! Remember you telling me that when I was restoring that Sears light? (Well it still needs a paint job but I got rid of 15 years worth of sawdust and rust).  But it's okay to mutter profanities when trying to mount a heavy, awkward light by yourself, then having it swing around on it's suspension setup trying to install lamps praying it doesn't fall on you...I know the feeling all too well.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 27, 2013, 04:09:22 PM
Yep the Metalux turret will be going up and the F20T12 reflector style industrial will be going up too (the chain on it is long enough so that i can stick the hook in 4ft apart and still use the 2ft fixture until i get another 4ft fixture although it will look weird lol)

Man that alto is hanging on for dear life. it won't quit! just keeps flashing. the etch end is purple at the moment and that end is getting really black too.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 27, 2013, 05:25:12 PM
well, Mr. ALTO died. I had to use the bathroom so i unplugged it and when i came back i plugged it back in and it flickered for a few seconds than got orange and then the center of the tube went magenta then the whole tube went magenta then the whole tube went dim, then it went out. if i stick the etch end on the red ballast lead the other end glows dimly though so still not totally dead yet!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 27, 2013, 08:28:23 PM
Sounds like it got contamintated right at the end. Maybe air is getting in but not enough to make it lose vacuum? Sometimes turning it on and off will make it do that.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 27, 2013, 09:11:52 PM
Well, the warm white GE Mainlighter is in swirly mode now and the other lamp is lighting too.  I got some nice purple glowing, a bit of orange, then the other lamp lit.  I could even sorta see the electrode melting down.
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on December 27, 2013, 09:26:08 PM
yeah i dont know what happened. it was a decent show though...

How do you know if the electrode melted down? I wonder if the Alto did that... The other end's electrode most still be intact since it dimly lights if the etch end is on the red wire. I put it out with the trash though... I posted pics on the LG.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 27, 2013, 10:11:03 PM
Well I've heard that and sometimes the phosphor will blow off making the carnage inside obvious. 
I burned by thumb on the pins of that Mainlighter (It finally died) shoving it down into the spent lamps box.  Now there's a Residential Light in there that swirled at first but has since calmed down.
That Mainlighter made the most AWFUL smell when it died! Hot, acrid melting glass I guess.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 27, 2013, 11:01:04 PM
i think the phosphor blows off the end when the lamp loose vacuum, as the inward rush of air blows the phosphors off the inside of the tube. This lamp didn't loose vacuum though i remember a lamp in my grandpa's basement did and about three inches of one end had no phosphors. it was a full mercury unbranded Philips Econ-o-watt.

ouch! be careful!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 28, 2013, 02:44:46 PM
There's a pic in my gallery somewhere of a 34w cool white GE Watt-Miser I hit on a pipe wrench by accident that cracked and lost vacuum! It was kinda cool looking so I took a pic of it and posted it.
Maybe yours did lose vacuum but it's arcing for some other reason in there? Only way to tell would be a NST or something...which neither of us have.
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on December 28, 2013, 03:34:49 PM
yeah i remember seeing that pic. Yeah I think we've all broken a fluorescent lamp or two over the years lol. And we're stil alive and well! yeah the only way i'd have access to an NST would be to take apart my microwave and my parents would murder me, bring me back to life, and murder me again lol. Plus i don't even know what i'd be looking for inside the microwave... all i know is that an NST is a high voltage transformer to generate the microwaves....

BTW, i went to Benny's today and the Sylvania CWP lamps are all gone. :( I bought a pair of 87CRI CWX lamps. they have that stupid dim flickery start up issue that the CWP lamps had. I'm starting to think that these lamps are eco lamps but they're just not marked as eco. they raised the price to 3.99 for a two pack.

They also had F40T12/ WHITE DELUXE lamps for $4.99 per lamp. I was going to but one but i like to buy lamps in pairs since all but one of my fixtures are 2 lampers and i hate mixing lamp brands and color temperatures. I'm guessing the white deluze would be similar to a 3500K lamp?

The CWX lamps i bought aren't dim and purple though. They actually look like a cross between cool white and 5000K. they're not that dim either.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 28, 2013, 04:46:02 PM
Actually, scratch that about the CWX lamps. After lighting them again, they're indeed excellent lamps! They were jsut dim and flickery on the first start but on the second they started right up! And they're not really bluish. I had a 3500K lamp running at the same time so they appeared bluer. I took the Sylvania CWX lamps into the utiltiy room and put on of them in the RS fixture with one GE cool white EcoLux and they're identical in color appearance and brightness.

These new 87CRI CWX lamps are really great lamps! I was expecting to be disappointed with dim purplish lamps but they're really great lamps! They're rated at 2150 lumens versus the 3000 lumens of the 70 CRI CWP lamps. Sort of a dip in light output but the GE lamps are rated at 2100 lumens... the package for the 4100K GEs doesn't have the CRI though. ???  My 3500K GE ecolux lamps are 78CRI and are rated for like 3175 lumens. They're BRIGHT!

So yeah I'd say the Sylvania CWX 87CRI lamps are a good buy. The only downsides to them is that one of them has mis-aligned endcaps and they both have a bunch of loose "stuff" inside the tube.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 28, 2013, 06:56:39 PM
Interesting! White deluxe is 3500K, yes.  Are you planning to get some of those?
Shame you can't buy the "Daylight Full Spectrum" lamps in a 2-pack there...I think they're just a Design 50 with a more intuitive name.  Or did I clear something up?
Can we see a pic of the etch of those 87CRI lamps?
The one CWX lamp I've ever bought and installed is rather dim and pinkish-purplish.  I honestly wasn't too impressed at all.  But then again it's next to 6500K Sylvania Octrons. I should've bought a "Daylight Full Spectrum" lamp (5000K 90CRI) in hindsight but I only needed one, not a pair, and it's in the engine room on my boat where CRI and overall pleasant-ness of the light isn't critical, so...It's a Sylvania-made "Buyer's Choice"
Do you have the package for both the 4100K and 3500K GEs? Did you buy the 4100K ones after July of 2012? If so they might be the new ones...since triphosphors are so expensive I wonder if GE did the Sylvania thing and just went back to deluxe halophosphate 89CRI CWX?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 28, 2013, 08:36:55 PM
i'd like to get some of the /WX lamps but they're 4.99 each so i'll pass on that. I can get two 3500K GEs for 9.98 with a giftcard at lowes instead. they were also selling single F40T12/CWX for 4.99 each which is really odd seeing how they were selling identical lamps in 2-packs for 3.99 a PAIR versus 4.99 EACH. odd or what? ??? :8)


Wyeah my grandpa (with the reflector industrials in the long narrow garage) has a couple Sylvania CWX lamps and they are dim and purple. They look like F40s on a NPF ballast even though they're being run on a full power ballast.

i saved the lamp info from the packages. the 3500K lamps came in the old style packaging and the 4100K lamps came in the new style packaging. I think the lamps were bought within a couple months of each other so they're about the age of when GE switched to the new style packaging (which i hate BTW. the new style packaging is too vague with lamp life in years vs hours, no CRI listing, etc.) they're F40T12C41 EcoLux w/ StarCoat, IIRC... I'm pretty sure they're triphosphor.

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 28, 2013, 11:32:16 PM
Yeah C41 is the new cool white.  If you like 6500K lamps then look for some CX65 "Active Spaces" GEs.
I dislike the new GE packaging in general personally.
If you find yourself buying 8' slimlines for the lights in your grandpa's shop that aren't Philips I guess GE has some new "HL" (High lumen) 60w energy savers in the normal 3000K, 3500K, 4100K, 5000K, 6500K, etc.
Even if you have "enough" lamps it doesn't hurt to expand your collection of new, modern lamps too!
From what the stores here sell I'd buy Sylvania "Daylight Full Spectrum" or GE "Active Spaces" or "Sunshine" lamps since I really like Daylight lamps.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 28, 2013, 11:47:01 PM
i don't know.. daylight is rather blue for me. ill have to try out 5000K though. high lumen 60W F96T12s? is that an oxymoron? lol do they get more lumens than a 75W lamp?

yeah they change the F40T12 lamps so much every time i go to the store to buy them they have something new lol
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 29, 2013, 09:14:42 PM
I doubt they're brighter; I'd never BUY 60w energy savers anyway, but I'd take them if they were free.
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on December 29, 2013, 09:57:09 PM
yeah they're probably brighter than those older purplish Sylvania CWX 60W SuperSavers though lol.

same here, i wouldn't buy them at full price. Actually, since i don't have an 8ft fixture i wouldn't buy any F96 lamps...

The only time a buy any energy saving lamp is when it's either vintage or cool looking (those Philips 1997 Econ-o-watt lamps i grabbed have my favorite etch and the red etched 34W GEs are vintage so i got them).

I saw a F34T12 black-etched Watt Miser GE with the meatball logo at the restore but i didn't grab it since it wasn't anything interesting and i have enough of those 34W lamps as it is (only 5 but that's too many lol) And I'll have six 34W lamps when/if i get those preheaters from my cousins' grandma's basement and garage. I'll go for the ones in the garage first since they're simply suspended and the new fixtures and lamps are out there plus there are windows out there so i can take them down without setting up any work lights. So basically an infant could replace them (well not really; you know what I mean though). The ones in the basement are drilled right into the subfloor (since the ceiling is low down there i guess he didn't want to mount them to the joists or suspend them).

So since they're flush-mounted I'll need another person to help me remove them. Also one of the lights relies on its pull chain as the only switch so i'd need to shut off the breaker for the lights (which could kill power to the whole basement since older houses tend to have the breakers wired by room, not separete breakers for outlets and lights, which is required new electrical work since if you overload your outlets, having the lights in that room isn't going to help you in anyway. In my house my room and my brother's room share a breaker for the outlets and lights and my parents have their own. the downstairs lights have their own, the downstairs outlets have their own, the basement itself has its own subpanel in the utility room (main breaker is in the garage)

so getting the downstairs lights will come after the garage. When I get the ones in the garage I'll get my investment back too (the Sylvania CWP 70CRI lamps and the new starters). So in a way those lamps are just in "storage" in the fixtures since my uncle only uses the lights for a couple hours a month in the summer when he cuts the grass (the ride-on mower is in there). He doesn't cut the grass too often. Maybe once or twice a month... we cut ours once a week in the summer then we do it every other week to every two weeks when it gets cooler out since it doesn't grow as fast.

their ride-on doesn't like to always work so when he actually has the time to cut the grass between jobs it doesn't always cooperate. But anyway, so yeah the CWP lamps i installed probably still look like new. I wrote the installation date on them (my brother's birthday, 10/14/12) but that will rub off with hot water and a sponge since sharpie isn't permanent on glass.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 04, 2014, 08:23:05 PM
My dad discovered today that apparently gasoline will dissolve Sharpie or similar permanent marker writing...a borrowed generator from a relative had their name written on it and he spilled some gas filling it, went to wipe it up, and it wiped right clean off like it was never even there!
I'd still get 34w lamps at the Restore if they were anything interesting...like a Daylight, Warm White, or Lite White 34w red-etch GE Watt-Miser or one of those funky Westy Econ-O-Watts...
On a full power ballast your CWX lamps are probably nice and bright but mine is on an Advance electronic rapid start ballast (2-lamp wired for one, the wiring is identical to a magnetic RS for 2 lamps) and I forget what the line current is and therefore what sort of ballast factor it's getting...and then again it's next to 2-lamp fixtures with 6500K F32T8 Sylvania Octrons as well as one light with 4100K Octrons.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 04, 2014, 08:56:16 PM
yeah i think sharpie can be partly washed away with hand sanitizer/rubbing alcohol.

I think the 34W lamps were only ever made in cool white and warm white (though GE had their funky "lite white" version too). I'm not sure why they were only made in those color temps though, a daylight one would be really cool!

Yeah I don't care what kind of lamp it is, if it's under 4ft and it's a vintage looking lamp (like 70s or earlier) then I'm buying it lol. I bought two 30" F25T12 Sylvania lamps at a TrueValue and they both turned out to be from 1962! :o
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 04, 2014, 10:20:54 PM
GE made Daylight Watt-Misers, I've seen them on here and LG.  IDK about Philips/Westy though.  I once saw a pair of Philips pre-Alto 34w Lite Whites in use. 
True Value and Ace often have vintage lamps, especially in those odd, non-standard, unusual sizes, obviously they aren't bought very often!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 04, 2014, 10:58:07 PM
hmm interesting. i didn't know that they were made in daylight. i thought lite-white was a GE exclusive but i guess not.
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on January 05, 2014, 05:23:52 PM
Well, I got four 5000K GE tubes. I like the color but not enough to spend 40 bucks on a case of ten (yet I spent 20 bucks for four of them. go figure...) The GE ones are rated for more lumens which is why I bought them over the Sylvania ones. I didn't really notice a huge difference between the 90 CRI of these and the lower CRI of other lamps though. I don't think CRI is really important in a basement or garage anyways...

Do they make any fluorescent lamps with CRI higher than 90?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 23, 2014, 10:30:50 PM
I think I've seen like 95CRI before...
I recently went down to CA and went Restoring but didn't buy anything, though I went with the relative who has the M-400A and we found some F96T12 ballasts for lights in his shop, one of which was a NOS Jefferson with full-length RUBBER-coated wires! The case was white, too, although the back (The part that would have a date code stamped on it and the flanges for mounting) was black.  It was full-power at 1.45 amps! Let's just say even those 60w GE Watt-Misers are brighter in that light and warm up faster! I don't think they're ideal for a ballast like that though.  We also bought an Advance electronic one and he installed it after I left but he said he likes it a lot and the lamps don't stritate.
I also fired up their old Regent yard light with the Westy Lifeguard lamp.  It's not SUPER bright but that might also be due in part to the extremely dirty refractor.  There's a couple defunct wasp's nests in there too.  It buzzes REALLY loud at startup (But not as loud as a GE M-1000 that's been lit every night for 50 years).  Then it quiets down once the lamp is completely warmed up but then the buzz fluctuates and the lamp flickers occasionally...any idea why? Is this vintage Westy on it's way out? It's still quite bright for being at least 30 years old, although it's rarely used...I may be the only one who ever turns it on!
AND, while driving around that area at night, multiple HPS streetlights went out (cycling) as we drove under them! We were wondering if I was "electropathic".
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 24, 2014, 06:32:57 PM
wow 95CRI is quite impressive! I'm perfectly fine with 60 CRI though lol. I'm very light-skinned so the lower CRI fluorescent lamps make my skin look a little tanner (well more like yellower but it's better than looking like a snowman with a pinkish tone lol). I like the 5000K 87CRI GE sunshine lamps i bought but MAN i look like i had my blood drained from me when i'm under them lol. Right now they're not in use though. I still have the 3500K and 4100K GEs in my F40s (and the 34W Philips lamps in the garage)

wow that ballast sounds awesome! Did he let you keep it? Jefferson and Robertson made some really cool and unique ballasts and they were built VERY "tuff" lol. yeah the electronic slimline ballasts don't let the lamps striate which is good. I'd imagine they work the lamps harder too.

Yeah residential grade MV yardblasters tend to buzz like beehives themselves after year of service lol. A lot of the time though when a fixture is loud it's the fixture itself, not the ballast. Cobraheads are especially known for because the fixture is held shut by a latch, which is looser than a screw meaning the fixture vibrates. The door vibrates, the reflector vibrates, the refractor vibrates, and even the arm can contribute a little bit when it comes to noise too all from the ballast vibrating.

Yep all balalsts (well reactors and reactance ballasts, which are simple ones with no capacitors) will start off loud and high pitch and then tone it down a little. Once the ballast stays the same pitch and loudness the lamp is fully warmed up. Yeah my lights will do that when they're mounted on the stand inside my room but now otherwise. My guess is inconsistance line voltage. Ideally, HID lights should be on their own circuit (multiple HIDs can be on the same circuit but that circuit should ideally be designated for lights since other electronics or applicances can "pollute" the line voltage). The lamp is fine though. HID lamps will sometimes flicker randomly, i guess some are just less resistant to line voltage fluctuations.

Yeah the lifeguard lamps don't blacken as much as lamps without the special coating. try to peek at the arc tube and see if it's blackened at all. I have to say, even though the Sylvania Eco HPS lamps look like they're overdriven and i don't really like the yellowertint to it, they seem to be brighter and it's easier to see under them compared to other HPS lamps. I guess it's the same with their mercs. The /DX mercs are all pinkish but the light they emmit is superior to any other MV lamp.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 27, 2014, 09:06:31 PM
Same here, except for a few situations...but it works fine for most.  Where did you try them? Just wondering...
No, we installed it in a (90s vintage?) Thomas Lighting (never heard of that company before) F96T12 striplight.  They're nice fixtures IMO, with sectional ballast covers (2-4' sections) and endplates that half-cover the sockets.  I will post pics later.  I did suggest putting 75w lamps in that fixture though since 60w energy savers might make it overheat and quit.  I don't think it was even Class P! (I don't think there was any class-P warning to disobey on that light though).
I bet the EOL show would be good with those electronic slimline ballasts, no rectifying to cook a ballast, just vacuum loss!
I saw a vid someone posted on LG of their neighbor's angled-lamp yardblaster light with a mysterious "rattle" like a screw was loose somewhere or something...or maybe the arc tube frame in the lamp? It also buzzed loudly...I told you about mine with the weird oscillating buzz-quiet-buzz on one of my generators whose hertz seems a little off (lights flicker continuously).  This one was on a shed subpanel which was hooked to the shop subpanel (the building with the slimline lights) which was hooked to the meter box for the house.  (Shed and shop were both free-standing outbuildings with underground wiring).  This /DX wasn't pinkish except for the first 30 seconds or so of warmup from switch-on, it was a soft greenish-white but not as harsh as a clear lamp or as green.
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on January 30, 2014, 06:02:17 PM
yeah most 8ft fixtures have tandem sections made up of two 4ft channels. Whenever I get new lamps I generally test them in my 2X F40 1950s long john preheater from my aunt and uncle's basement. I always test with preheat if i can (to ensure the filaments at the end are fully intact, as the lamp will still light on RS as long as one is good but with oreheat you need a complete circuit.

Before i got my 2X preheater i used the single lamp one from my cousins' grandma's garage (and that light coincidentally was also mounted in the utility room at one point but right not it's leaning against the wall vertically in the utility room with the other uninstalled lights and my second stash of lamps (since i don't have room for all of my fluorescent lamps in one place)

I have that case of 30 80s Sylvania /WW F20T12s (with one 90s 3500K Sylvania in the box) behind the couch in the basement since the couch is kiddie cornered, leaving storage space behind it. My F40T12 lamps are in a box that holds 24 lamps in the laundry room. In a second box i have my four 70s F30T12 Sylvania lamps, the 30" 60s F25T12 lamps, and my two 90s F32T8s. My three AGRO-LITE lamps are in their own box that hold four lamps. My case of Sylvania DSN50 lamps are in their case in that spot too. In the utility room i have my other F20T12 lamps in a box that hold like 24 lamps. And i have four F40T12 lamps (3 Sylvania CWP Buyers Choice and an ITT CW)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 08, 2014, 04:29:54 PM
Most of mine are in my attic but a few lamps are in my room...like less-than-4' ones.
So you do have some Sylvania /D50 lamps now? I put the pair of Chroma 50s and the Design 50 I have in that 3-lamp fixture I have and it's a really "cool" effect!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 08, 2014, 08:37:31 PM
Yep I have a total of 14 5000K F40T12s. Ten Sylvania DESIGN50 and four GE 87CRI Sunshine lamps.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 08, 2014, 09:52:16 PM
Very "cool!"
I just joined the Flickr page...I'm May1977GEF40CWMainlighter there FYI...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 08, 2014, 10:44:23 PM
lol

ahh well welcome aboard!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 09, 2014, 12:50:40 PM
Yeah, I think I'll post some pics on here still but when they get old and not viewed very much I'll move them over to Flickr...
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on February 09, 2014, 02:56:15 PM
Sounds good.

when I went to the restore last week I got a Lumatech PL13 preheat adapter with the lamp. They still have a bunch of the 5W PL adapters but the light those give of is really useless lol. Plus there were no 5W PL lamps there. The PL adapter with the lamp only cost my 25 cents too! I love those PL13 adapters. The bottom is stamped 3988 so i assume that means "39th week of 1988". It came with an OSRAM Double DULUX USA 13DTT/27K ux2 lamp (2700K 13W PL13). The lamp appears to be new or with low hours.

The 5W PL adapters are all new and apparently they came in a case since they're all stuck to a sheet of cardboard with holes in it that they "screw into".

I'm going over my grandpa's tonight for his birthday so i'll see if any of the troffers need new lamps.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 14, 2014, 11:37:58 PM
Nice! When I went down to CA last I went Restoring that one time where I found the slimline ballasts and passed up some PL13 stuff...
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on February 15, 2014, 02:18:45 PM
I'm hopefully going back to the restore this week and if so, I'm going to get a square fake wood paneling box fixture with a opal drop dish lens that has two circlines in it with (i think) a blue-labeled therm-o-matic ballast. I passed it up last time since I have a lot of fluorescents already but I firgured I could use it somewhere down the road lol. If it's still there I'll get it. there were also three F30T12 strips. I might get a couple of them. I'll replace the undercabinet light with one and get rid of the undercabinet light since it's missing the diffuser.

Maybe the other one I'll chop down into a F25T12 30" fixture and make a fixture for my Sylvania F25T12 lamps. That's is they're still there...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 16, 2014, 01:15:46 PM
Yeah you could moddify that undercabinet light...or a strip, they can be chopped down easily although I've personally never chopped down a fixture...I've considered taking one of my defunct shoplights and making a 36" fixture though.
Good luck! Maybe you'll find a case of NOS /C Lifeguards or something!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 16, 2014, 03:43:33 PM
Nah I'll just chuck the undercabinet light (but keep the sockets and ballast). That's if the F30 strip lights are still there.

I'd still need to buy a F25T12 ballast and starter though since they use unique starters and ballasts.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 19, 2014, 10:32:59 PM
Yeah...or take a strip, chop it down to 33" and use an incandescent lamp as the ballast.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 20, 2014, 04:05:56 PM
well the 3ft strips were gone. :-\ so was the circline fixture, which is a little mad at myself for... I did manage to find a 1X2 F20T12 TS fixture that is the same exact style as the circline was and it was all sticky too. Would have been nice to have both fixtures but oh well.

BTW, that fixture came with... guess what... TWO NORELCO COOL WHITES!!!!!! They're two different types and one has a broken filament so only works on TS but the second tube works great on preheat or TS and shows little use.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 22, 2014, 12:35:07 AM
Yay! I love Norelco fluorescents! Post pics of them!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 22, 2014, 04:15:07 PM
I did. Check the LG...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 23, 2014, 06:24:23 PM
I added a starter to my quasi-preheat F40 shoplight today and got to witness a 4ft lamp firing up with blinking and clicking for the first time ever in person. Since it's a FS-2 though it's picky about which lamps it will start properly...some just keep blinking.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 23, 2014, 07:07:54 PM
Ahh Yeah preheat startup is always nice when you see it for the first time. Sometimes though the lamps will instant start if you have a quick starter. I've never tried an FS-2 starter in a F40 fixture though, but I've tried an FS-4 in a F20 fixture and nothing happens. On a F13T5 fixture, an FS-2 starter will work but you need to remove the starter after it lights or else it will endlessly cycle.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 28, 2014, 11:26:15 PM
Seems to be the case here...or since I hardwired it loosen the lamp slightly so both pins don't make contact.  Sometimes it'll instant start anyway with 277v OCV.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 01, 2014, 12:43:03 PM
I had to relamp that three lamp halfpiper F20 in my grandparents' basement. I replaced the Value Bright F20CW and Hubbell FS-2 NEO-START with an OnGuard starter and a GTE/Sylvania /WW lamp. My grandma loves the warmer (tanish-pink" light fron the /WW lamp. I can get the Value-Bright lamp to light in my F20 PH udnercabinet light but it flickers, almost like rectifying but not quite. the Neo-start starter is rather picky. I removed the capacitor from the starter and it will start a GTE /WW starter with no problem but it refuses to start either one of my ValueBright tubes. I
ll have to try other lamps when i get a change... The ends of the lamp glow and flash a little and that's it... The GTE /WW glowed steadily at the ends and then came on. Deos that every time. I think the starter is just weak now...

Hubbell NeoStart starters must have been EVERYWHERE here because it seems all my relatives with older preheaters here all have at least one NeoStart starter. My cousins' grandparents has FS4 neostarts, my aunt and uncle have a mix of Vicron and NeoStart, and my dad's parents had a FS2 Neostart in their halfpiper. BTW, the other two lamps are mid-2000's Sylvania F20/CW Canadian lamps.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 01, 2014, 06:44:55 PM
I thought you put a GE EcoLux in that light too at one point? But cool! (or, rather, warm!)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 01, 2014, 10:14:04 PM
Nah I had wanted to use an EcoLux but it was too long to fit in so I had opted for a lightly used Sylvania cool white instead. Both Sylvanias are coincidentally from 2005 (the first number/second digit of the date code is the "5" on both lamps, indicating 2005, but that's all i know about Sylvania lamps) and they were both made in Canada. When I had installed the Sylvania, I replaced the plastic OnGuard starter with an HN starter since I didn't know if it worked or not. Turns out it works fine so i used that OnGuard starter to replace the hubbell NeoStart, which barely works. I had to remove the cap from it to get any action. With the cap the lamps I used just glowed steadily. Without the cap the lamps all start fien but for some reason the ValueBright lamps are really hard to start with that starter. They'll flicker at the ends and you hear the starter pinging like a son-of-a-bitch and then after a minute to a minute and a half the lamp just flashes to life. With any other lamp though, the ends glow for two seconds and the lamp flashed on with no flicker. That's exactly how T17s start. The T17 in my grandpa's basement stays dark when you flick the switch for about 5 seconds then the ends glow for another four-six seconds and you hear a loud "PING" and the lamp comes on. No flicker. Those T17 starters are pretty loud! the ballast itself is very quiet though! Probably because it only runs one lamp...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 01, 2014, 11:02:16 PM
Ahh okay I see...so those ScamDim lamps are now all EOL and gone...well you have them now I guess...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 02, 2014, 12:06:43 AM
ScamDim? what do you mean? The one i just repalced it nearing EOL but the other is just dim (i think it's mercury starved; it has minimal end darkening. also they start normal with any other starter, they just don't like the neostart lol)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 02, 2014, 09:20:48 PM
A dead ValueBright is a ScamDim...see?
I've also noticed (and again noticed it today) that the Sears shoplight I have has a constant AC-ish flicker a little bit with those Sylvania Cool White Plus lamps on the GE Bonusline ballast.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 02, 2014, 10:20:54 PM
I see. Well it served a good 20-30+ years so i say that's no scam. :P ;D

i put Joe' fixture back together ( i figured i might as well reassemble it before i loose the parts lol) and bought new hardware and wire for it. so the hardware is all shiney and the fixture is all ratty lol. i used good lamps on the ballast this time and they don't flicker. i don't know if its full power but it gived off decent light. i might install it in the garage inn place of the F20T12 until i restore it this summer...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 02, 2014, 10:56:21 PM
What did you use for lamps this time? Just curious...
If I found an unknown fixture/ballast right now I'd use (albeit briefly) 34w lamps for testing...but ONLY to make sure it worked without blowing up something like a GE Mainlighter.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 02, 2014, 11:03:10 PM
I used the GE K&B F40 tubes. after a half hour to an hour, the ballast is pretty hot (almost to the point where i can't keep my hand on it) on the left side where the neutral and 120V line-in wires are but it's still ice cold on the red and blue line-out side.

Eh if i had to use 34W lamps for testing i would. If i had reason so suspect the ballast is faulty (leaked tar etc) i'd probably use a 34W lamp and if it lit switched to a 40W tube for the heat test, when i run the fixture anywhere from thirty minutes to several hours depending how long i feel like running it lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 05, 2014, 10:22:44 PM
My worst ballast was the Universal one I have shunted for one lamp right now...that thing looked awful and I tested it OUTSIDE with 34 watt lamps on a long extension cord at first! I have pics in my gallery and you can see it laying on the grass and gravel. Long story short, it was half-dead, lighting one lamp dimly, so now it's wired for one lamp and works fine that way.  The GE Bonusline got tested with Sylvania Cool White Plus lamps.
I have some news I'm ecstatic about! I'm getting a F96T12 slimline fixture!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 06, 2014, 12:12:13 AM
OK, now I have time to elaborate more on that slimline...A few months ago I was in a neighbor's storage (a whole 2-bedroom house full of stuff, every room full of tools, etc.) and discovered this 2-lamp F96T12 striplight laying on a bed upstairs.  SO, while talking to them a couple days ago I mentioned it and they said it was there when they got that place, and I can have it! So next time they're in there they'll grab it for me! I may very well come home in the next few days to a slimline on my porch or in my entryway or garage. (Yes, I leave my garage unlocked and they borrow tools, etc. all the time) Lamps are Sylvania 60w cool white SuperSavers IIRC, but I don't know what it has for a ballast (Hopefully a nice GE Bonusline or Universal or something that's full power!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 06, 2014, 07:07:45 AM
Oh nice! Glad you're getting a slimline. 8) If I were to have an 8ft light I'd want an 8ft, not a slimline since i find slimlines boring with the instant start lamps... Unfortunately anything over 4ft is just too large for my collection right now and the 8ft fixtures are just going to get harder and harder to find...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 06, 2014, 09:27:53 PM
Yeah, despite their instant-on boringness I've always wanted one of those...although they have a THUMP! when turned on and usually hum quite loudly.  I might have to put it in the unheated garage just for the classic, nostalgic experience of the 60w energy savers flickering in the cold...LOL
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on March 07, 2014, 10:57:17 PM
yeah i know what you mean. and yeah strangely enough the slimlines tend to be louder than the HOs... Ugh those sucky 60W lamps flicker even when they're warm lol. and they're DIM! Fortunately the few T12s out there get relamped with full wattage lamps now since the selection of 34 and 60W T12s has narrowed a good amount due to the lamp regulations, though a case of 30 Sylvania F40/CW SuperSaver lamps costs the same as a 10 pack of daylight 40W Sylvanias at Lowe's. So tempting but i will not but ES lamps!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 07, 2014, 11:34:25 PM
Me either! I have some GE and GE-made ACE 34w energy savers but they were all given to me for free.
When those Supersavers fail they're getting relamped with 75w lamps UNLESS all I can find is energy savers (Which seems to be a reversing trend now; I see more and more places switching back to full-wattage lamps. Just like before EPACT only with higher CRI!) OR if I get some 60w slimlines given to me for free or REALLY reduced price.
I will get some pics of those striating in the cold.  We'll see how loud the ballast is...I bet it'll be REALLY loud on modified-sine-wave inverter electrcity! :shock:
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on March 08, 2014, 12:43:19 PM
Yeah i suppose that's the only good thing about the stupid CRI regulations lol. All Philips makes is full wattage lamps for the T12s. GE makes the 34W tubes but i don't ever see them for sale here. I only see the Sylvania Super Savers. And the only eco Sylvanias i see here are the SuperSavers. they have green etches.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 08, 2014, 12:48:06 PM
I've never seen the new GE energy savers in person...or any really for that matter.  Just GE, Sylvania, and Philips full-wattage lamps, sans Sylvania CWX energy savers.
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on March 08, 2014, 03:13:35 PM
I've seen EcoLux F34T12/Residential Light lamps at the restore but one lost vaccuum and the other looked pretty close to EOL. I see F34/CW Altos all the time at the restore but never buy them.

Have you noticed that Philips Altos weigh less than Sylvania or GE lamps? I don't know if it's thinner glass or what but Altos seem to be lighter than other newer lamps.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 08, 2014, 05:39:13 PM
I haven't because I've never handled an Alto! Seriously!
I got the slimline fixture this morning.  And, yes, it works! It's made by Lithiona, with a 90s Advance (post-kool-koil logo) full-power ballast (1.45a, best kind: full power and no PCBs!) and 1996 Sylvania 60w cool white Supersavers.  When it first made it into my house it was in the unheated garage and after running for almost an hour the lamps had brightened some but flickered horribly.  Upon bringing it inside, though, it warms right up, although the lamps flicker at first, but then they stop and are decently bright, although I'm sure 75 watters would be brighter yet.  Ballast is very quiet, and runs cool.  One of the sockets is broken though, so I have the fixture laying upside down right now (Lamps facing the ceiling)  with a piece of kindling from the woodstove jammed under it to support it (lamp is just making contact with the spring, it's the plunger side). I need to do something about that...we don't want 775v just sitting there, do we? But otherwise, a cool fixture! It does need a good cleaning (I did what Windex could do but the rest will have to wait till spring).  I'll post pics of the fixture, lamps, and ballast shortly! Stay tuned!
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on March 08, 2014, 07:32:36 PM
yeah a 8ft fixture is a little much for me but I guess it would be cool to have one just for the sake of having one in the collection. The F90T17s are probably the larest fixtures I'd want around. IDK, 8ft just seems to cumbersome to me lol.

Yeah My M-250R1C will be getting a nice wash this spring. and the M-400A2s will be getting a coat of paint along with the light going to Joe.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 08, 2014, 08:05:34 PM
They're hard to move around for sure! It was in a small bedroom with a low, sloped ceiling, and it had to go out the door of that room, and down some very steep, narrow stairs (old house=probably not up to modern codes). There WAS an openable window at the bottom of the stairs which I thought it just might have to go out to get it out of the house, but it made it around the corner and out the actual front door.  THEN, I had to carry it the equivalent of several city blocks back to my house; at first I thought, "This is doable" but by the time I hiked up my steep driveway my arms and shoulders were saying otherwise.  I'm sure I looked hilarious walking sideways through the neighborhood (trees, etc. would have been in the way otherwise) with an eight foot fluorescent light fixture to most people.  Then I had gremlins with getting it going, namely having to add a cord and a bad socket.  Then I had to carry it out of the house, around back and in another door to my living room where I let it run for awhile and cleaned it up.  THEN, it just BARELY made it up MY stairs, which are even wider and less steep but have a 90 degree turn halfway up (I was scraping the wall at one point).
At first when I saw this thing I saw it from a weird angle and thought I'd scored a F72T12! (6ft).  I was sorta disappointed for a second but also pleased I'd maybe found something even cooler...but luckily it  was the 8ft I'd hoped for. 
F90T17s would be awesome! Although if you get a chance (like if your grandpa retrofits all his auto shop lights) I'd save an 8ft fixture if I was you, along with all the other ballasts and lamps (ballasts don't take up much space relatively speaking). I know you like HO's so I'd get one of each type of fixture as well as the associated ballasts and maybe some lamps too. 
I have multiple lights to restore: this one, the Sears shoplight, and a few others as well.  The channel covers (2-4ft sections) are currently sitting outside being rained on at the moment, mother nature cleaning!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 08, 2014, 10:04:28 PM
Yeah i know the lamps are awkward to carry. If you make any sudden turns will your holding them you have a good chance of smashing the lamp into something lol. I had relamped a few of my grandpa's slimlines. Eh, i don't think a retrofit is realistically in the agenda. If he's planning to retire there's no economical point in retrofitting the lights since it's not like he'll get his investment back. I'm not parting with that preheater in the bathroom though. That's coming with me lol.

A six foot fixture would be cool. The 3 and 6 foot fixtures of any type aren't common because the only time they were really used was when a 4 or 8ft fixture wouldn't fit, like at the end of a continuous fixture row in a store or soemthing. Here there's a store that retrofitted from T12HO to F32T8s and at one end of each row there were F72T12/HOs but they used four F32T8s and overlapped them to make 6ft instead of 8 and it looks terrible. The rest of the fixtures have 4 F32T8s per 8ft section. So the 8ft fixtures look like this:

_ _
_ _

And the six foot fixtures look like this but with the spaces eliminated:

_
 _
_
 _
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 09, 2014, 11:35:01 AM
I was in a supermarket once and they had the most ugly retrofit job I've ever seen.  They took what was probably 2XF40 or 2XF96 slimlines and staggered F32T8 lamps like that.  The light distribution on the ceiling was horrible!
Ever notice slimlines start one lamp a fraction of a second before the other? Mine will, every time.  And it has since had the experience of running on modified-sine-wave inverter electricity! On that, with about 102-108v line voltage, it almost acts like rapid start! (And buzzes more and runs dimmer, like any fluorescent light will on that power). I might try a startup vid, but I don't know how well it will turn out.
Yeah...save that preheater! I'd still try to get an eight foot fixture.  Someday you'll be glad you did.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 09, 2014, 12:32:11 PM
yep rapid start ballasts do that too. Joe did soemthing where his camera took continuous pics and started up one of his lights and the lamp connected to the blue wire always starts first. I think the lead-lag preehat ballasts are the same but since there's starters it's not like you could tell anyways lol. The HOs in my grandpa's shop are the same (all two fixtures lol) The blue-wire lamp starters ever so slightly before the red-line lamp.

I'd consider getting one of the HOs, but i don't have the money to purchase a new 8ft T8 fixture and I have no place to put a 8ft fixture. :(
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 09, 2014, 01:57:59 PM
I'm talking if the building is being sold...you might not have to replace it.
This is impressive- the lamps don't striate as much and the lead lamp starts several seconds before the lag lamp on inverter electricity.  I tried getting it on video but I don't think it came out very well.
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on March 09, 2014, 04:34:56 PM
Ahh yeah I think I'd still need to stick something up. Maybe I could slide with a F32T8 strip light.


several seconds apart? wow!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 09, 2014, 09:04:07 PM
Sometimes long enough to make me think something is wrong! :lol:
Well, I took your advice: I suspended that thing today! I ended up hammering nails into the ceiling joists in front of the 3-lamp F40 rapid start troffer then used old ballast leads as hanging hardware then clinched the nails over for homebrew "hooks". (It's not that heavy actually). Then I suspended it like you would a normal shoplight...
I also fixed the broken socket, albeit with electrical tape.  It still sagged after holding the lamp for a few hours so then I wrapped more electrical tape around the lamps and fixture twice at that end just to be safe. I'm liking single-pin slimlines much more than bipin lamps after discovering how much simpler they are and that the sockets can be repaired.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 09, 2014, 10:10:55 PM
lol well nothing wrong with some good old innovation! I suggest using a ziptie on the plunger end instead of tape though. It'll be more secure and look a little less... tapey lol.

yeah slimines are simple to relamp. whenthe fixture is suspended several feet from the ceiling, which is the case at my grandpas, you end up having to hold the fixture with one hand and try to remove the old and and install the new one with the other hand. I little trickey. The HO fixture was heavy enough so that the fixture didn't move that mugh lol. Plunger bi-pin is trickey and especially trickey if no impossible with mis-aligned endcaps and RDC can be a pain too if you don't line up the lamp and socket just right. It helps to have a person standing under the stationary sockets to let you know when you get them in. Slimlines are the easiest though since it's a round knob. Plus with SL lamps you can orient the lamp to either show the etch or hide it depending what your preerence is. If the fixture is open i like the show the etches if i can but for enclosed lights i try to hide the etch since somtimes you'll see a dark blob on the diffuser (either green or black) from the etch.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 10, 2014, 07:40:26 PM
I like looking at my etches so I have mine rotated so as to be visible!
I'll try the ziptie thing if I ever relamp this light...I don't want to mess with it until then.  That'll be awhile as the lamps look fairly healthy still...
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on March 11, 2014, 05:52:05 PM
yeah i like the etches too but not when the light has a diffuser since it creates a dark spot on the diffuser if the lamp and diffuser are clsoe together.

I converted the F14T12 RS strip that Darren gave me to preheat. I'm going to mount it over my bed. 8)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 11, 2014, 08:28:43 PM
Nice! Can we see a pic of the insides and it's lamp's etch?
I'm deciding I really like that 8ft slimline fixture, even more than the F40 rapid start fixtures in the same room.  Slimlines are quite simple IMO.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 11, 2014, 10:00:14 PM
i took pics today and will post tomorrowor wednesday. he also sent two NOS Sylvania F14/D lamps from the mid 2000s some time. for the F40s, daylight is a little too blue for me but for the F14s, i LOVE the daylight color!

the light is preheat and hardmounted to a shelf over my bed (yes, i'd be screwed if there was ever an earthquake and the shelf fell on top of me lol but the worst we've ever gotton was just enough to make the china cabinet rumble and shake your glass of water a little)

I was debating whether to use a Westinghouse /CW, and ITT /CW, a 2005 Sylvania-made GE /CW, or one of the daylight F14s that Darren sent me but i settled on a Westie F14/CW. Even though the ITT and Westie lamps are both /CW, the Westie has quite the yellow tinge to it. I don't really mind though.

the lamp is brighter with the choke though. funny thing is, on one of those 14/15/20W ballasts, the lamps all give off the same amount of lumens so the F14 is very bright and gives off as much light as a F20 and the F20s look underdriven lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 13, 2014, 08:51:52 PM
For me daylight looks weird for smaller lamps and better for larger ones...I'd love to find some /950 F96T12s...I know they exist...
My biggest earthquake, a magnitude 7.5 :shock: didn't break a single lamp.  I had nine GE Mainlighters in a corner between a desk and the walls and they all pushed together.  Same for lots of other lamps.  Pretty amazing!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 13, 2014, 09:32:48 PM
7.5? Geeze! :o Here it's no worse than the shake from the workers around the block blasting rock to build houses in the summer time. just a little shaking to make the stuff in on my shelves make a little noise and clank the china a bit.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 13, 2014, 10:09:26 PM
It was pretty big...make a mess out of the house but didn't break any lamps.  Stuff like the 14 sheets of Sheetrock leaning against the wall in the garage fell over...
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on March 14, 2014, 06:13:26 PM
Oh wow. pretty freaky! Yeah a little rumble can cause a lot of tumble! (sorry for the weak rhymer here lol)

I'm going to build another one of my plug-in switched outlets for my F14T12 fixture so I don't need to unplug it and plug it in all the time. (i built one for my exit sign if you recall what it is. basically it's a PVC single gang juction box with a duplex switch/outlet combo wired to a computer cord. The idea is that the switch/outlet combo plugs into an outlet and whatever is plugged into the portable combo device is controlled by a switch! I could also make a two-gang box with one switch controlling two outlets or two switches, each controlling one outlet. I only need one switch and one outlet though)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 15, 2014, 11:16:01 PM
I have one of those...it's a vintage SNAP! switch whose metal part that screws to the box is very rusty but whose brass terminals and Bakelite housing are fine...it SNAPS! loudly and currently turns on my 8ft slimline.
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on March 16, 2014, 10:33:53 AM
Ahh i get all the parts for my portable switched-outlets from Lowe's (except for the cord) so the switch/outlet device is a Pass & Seymour. Not really a SNAP switch but it doesn't allow the switch to arc like those cheaper residential grade switches.

I'm looking around to see how to improve my outdoor light pole. I want to use 1-1/4" EMT conduit but I don't know how to let the cord exit the pole without having it go to the bottom. I need to find a way to pop a hole in the EMT about 4ft from the ground to allow the cord to exit.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 18, 2014, 08:23:50 PM
All my electrical items are usually secondhand...and often vintage.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 18, 2014, 09:40:07 PM
oh i always buy new stuff when i make home made gagets. Unless i happen to have what i need laying around.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 18, 2014, 11:51:59 PM
I guess I'm the opposite then...LOL
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 19, 2014, 06:10:45 AM
for replacement parts I'll install used parts but when i make something new from scratch i use all new parts. with my street light stand I already had an NOS Levition outlet though so i used that.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 19, 2014, 09:14:12 PM
I should do that but I have a vintage SNAP! switch installed in a modern Carlon box!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 19, 2014, 10:12:54 PM
I also meant to mention I had the 2nd-ever CFL failure happen.  Like the first, it was over a bathroom sink (last one happened in a different house) and was peaceful: no smoking, arcing, melting, etc.  I guess I'm lucky.  I just went to turn it on, nothing happened, so I stuck in an identical lamp (both the dead one and it's replacement were 13w 2700K GE Helicals) and it works fine now! It lasted about 2 years, not bad for being frequently switched.  Judging by that, a few others might go "poof" soon too...I'm thinking of two in particular that have about had it judging by the fact they're lumen depreciated and blackened at the ends of the spiral.
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on March 20, 2014, 06:08:55 AM
Yeah CFLs usually fail peacefully. As long as they're not on for hours on end and not in a poorly ventilated fixture they don't ususally fail violently.

So as long as your not one of those who wastes electricity by running lights 24/7 day an night all the time whether they're home or not, then you likely won't see a violent failure. I've had a few CFLs die (all GE helicals, they ususally seem to get something loose since if you gently tap the lamp sometimes they come back to life lol).

BTW, Sylvania is closing the Central Falls, Rhode Island plant. :(
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 20, 2014, 10:29:03 PM
Drr! What lamps did that plant make?
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on March 21, 2014, 08:18:20 AM
They make the outer glass envelopes for the HID lamps and send them to the manufacturing facility where the lamps are actually made in another state. I wonder if this means they're not going to make their lamps in the USA anymore... they don't make the MV lamps here anymore, that's why they're not BT-shaped. If Sylvania still made their MV lamps, they'd be BT28 and BT37 and BT56 just like the MH lamps are.

ugh i have a stomach bug. :(
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 21, 2014, 08:16:25 PM
Or maybe just simplifying their manufacturing process by making the whole lamp at one factory?
I know Sylvania is proud of their Versailles, KY fluorescents to this day...I think they all come from there now (F40s at least).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 22, 2014, 09:18:13 AM
Thir Kentucky plant is their only US fluorescent plant so if they make them all in the US, they're made there. They used to me made in Canada and those were really great lamps too. Sylvania is just a really great company. I've always been pleased by them. My biggest issue with them are the misaligned endcaps on a lot of the F40s. sorta drives me nuts but it doesn't affect the lamp's performance. And it just shows they must have people assembling them isntead of machines, meaning Sylvania is providing jobs!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 28, 2014, 12:08:08 AM
Not necessarily...machines mess up a lot too.
Mine have that same issue...the loose pins.  Their 90s lamps were great- I have a pair of 1994 Workshop F40s, a 1993 (I think) F40/DSGN50, and a pair of 1996 F96T12/CW/SS lamps. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 28, 2014, 09:23:11 PM
Most lamps in my collection (4ft that is) are GEs.  Most are used warm white Mainlighters I found in the trash shed of the local community center, gave to the school, then got back later! Same for one Norelco F40CW.  I also have a F40CW Mainlighter later found in the same shed (It works too!).  I have some F40RES ones, as well as some 34w Watt-Misers.  And some GE-made Ace branded F40s. I have about 70 F40s total I think...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 29, 2014, 06:49:05 PM
Oh I've been meaning to mention I took apart that dead CFL and the ballast still works! (It lights an F15T8 quite well, albeit instant-starting.  From what I can tell, most CFLs are somehow instant-start but with cathode heating (So electronic rapid start with enough OCV to make it light instantly?) I believe that's their EOL sensing mechanism-when the electrode breaks, it quits working to prevent an ugly vacuum-loss-type show.
Also in a FarmTek catalog I got recently it appears PL13 adapters are still made!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 29, 2014, 07:39:22 PM
Oh cool. Glad that you reused the "ballast" since it still worked, though it's amazing it still works since those things are crude...

Yep the preheat PL adapters are still made in the 5, 7, 9, and 13W sizes. I have a few 5 and 13W ones. The 5w PLs are basically useless though, only about as bright as a 25W incandescent lol. If you had a fixture with a bunhc of sockets and didn't want a lot of light it would be good though.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 30, 2014, 11:04:37 PM
A 5w 6500K PL would be interesting if such a thing exists...
I did a few more F40 lamp EOL shows on that 277v Advance electronic ballast yesterday.  I think it may be currently hooked up to the 240v tap of the 400w MH ballast it's using as a transformer, though as it sometimes rapid-starts! It stayed dim-glowing for a couple minutes with an Ace F40/UNIVERSAL/DLX then suddenly lost vacuum! First time I've ever had phosphor blow of (even then only a little bit) other than inadvertently hitting lamps on the end before cracking them...
I want to try that CFL ballast on a spent F15 lamp (although I have none right now) with intact cathodes to see what it does...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 31, 2014, 02:26:57 PM
All of my PL lamps are 2700K... daylight PLs probably exsit but I've never seen one. I've only seen daylight electronic PLs.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 31, 2014, 08:17:32 PM
I've seen 3500K and 4100K but no 6500K.  I have a PL13 adapter but no lamp so have never run it and I have no idea if it works.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 31, 2014, 09:14:48 PM
Someone on LG made homemade Powergrooves with a propane torch...I think I'm going to try it! (with a 34w lamp of course!)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 01, 2014, 03:43:36 PM
Hmm I've never really looked for preheat PL lamps before. All my adapters have come with lamps. The next time you go into a city and there's a Lowes or HD they will have PL lamps. If you want, you could stick solid AWG 18 leads in the holes for the pins on the adapter and hook up a F14T12 lamp or F15T12 lamp. don't forget to use an external starter in between the lamp ends. Just connect one wire from the adapter to one socket and the other to the other and connect the start in between just like you would wiring up a choke. It's basically a screw-in choke ballast lol.

LOL be careful denting your lamps lol. You might want to try it on an EOL lamp first to get the feel for it before destroying any working lamps, even if they're just 34W lamps.

I "saved" a F15T12/WW GE home fluorescent lamp from school today. Yesterday I scored four starters from school from undercabinet fixtures (plug in ones with the cords cut where they enter the fixture and the bodies are all plastic). There was only one lamp in the fixtures so I came back for that today since I was in the votech building the last perio today. I didn't take it yesterday since i didn't want to carry the lamp around in my backpack all day. The 18" lamp fit perfectly in my backpack and survived the trip home and needless to say it works with little blackening. I don't have an F15 fixture but if I meet up with Joe in Ontario this summer I'll have one from 1998. 8) ;D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 01, 2014, 09:39:18 PM
You and Joseph are meeting up? SUW-WHEEET! Hope that works out!!!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 02, 2014, 01:34:09 PM
well not sure. We're gonna try to meet up but IDK if it's going to work...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 03, 2014, 10:23:01 PM
Hope it does! I know lots of people who are sorta lighting inclined, though they're not collectors...like the former US history teacher I was visiting today who gave me that Sylvania F40/DSGN50 and the 1976 inside-etch Mainlighter that was EOL as well as the nonworking Advance ballasts...
He was showing me this brand new 8Kw Lister diesel generator he installed (Like mine his place is off-grid).  I asked if the hertz were accurate and he mentioned the lights in the woodshop flickered.  That lead into the woodshop lit with vintage rapid start shoplights.  This is where the interesting stuff starts.  In the 40 degree unheated room, the lights flickered when cold, even with (in theory) full power ballasts after starting up the aforementioned generator and one wasn't lit at all.  I went to service that one (I'll happily service other people's classic fluorescents as if they were my own).  Pulled out a slightly blackened GENERAL (GE) ELECTRIC F40CW.  Stuck in a 1993 Sylvania D50 like the one he gave me...still didn't work.  Twisted the GE F40/KB in the other side of the fixture and it lit right up the way a good old full-power ballast should.  (It looks cool with a 3000K and 5000K lamp BTW). Then moved on to a nice old Sears shoplight like mine whose lamps were flickering dimly (GE-made Westpointe (True-value).  Switched them around with others, re-tried the GE F40CW, etc. (Which didn't work, no vaccum?) I'm thinking either a wire is loose in a socket somewhere or as Don already suggested, the cap is going bad in the ballast (the crappy dim LPF wraparound next to it was considerably brighter!) Two other lights (Sears ones too) flickered but I think they were cold.  All the sockets are obviously replaced as they look way too new for the fixtures, so I wonder if the ballasts are "energy saver" .73a ones.  (There was a lone 34 watter there, and we all know how those things treat those full power ballasts).
Also did you know electric motors don't like cold? The large commerical table saw in there did NOT want to start, even wired for 240v on an 8Kw generator (The lights dimmed down to just primary lamps going and I'm surprised no vintage cartridge fuses blew!)  Finally it started itself...those things draw a lot of power and I'm sure the cold didn't help either!
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on April 05, 2014, 09:35:49 AM
oh wow sounds like a lot of lights down there. you know, if thay fixture has all new sockets and it's very dim, i wonder if it was wired wrong? Like maybe instead of putting two blues to one socket and two reds to the other they put one red and one blue to each or some other type of miswire?

The first thing I do with a RS fixture that doesn't work is check to make sure the lamp is in right and see if the lamp looks really worn. If no problem pops up there, I clean the lamps and if it still doesn't light up I'll try new lamps. I've never had a fixture not work with new lamps but if it didn't ork with new lamps and I woud take the new lamps out, open the fixture and check the sockets. If the sockets looked good and the wires weren't coming out, i would disconnect the ballast from power and close the fixture back up and leave it lampless. Then I'd return to replace the ballast (and sockets if they look ratty). then I'd test the ballast at home and find out if it works and if the sockets were just bad. If the sockets were all that was bad, I just scored myself a ballast!

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 06, 2014, 07:26:14 PM
Come to think of it, I wanna say I remember the offending fixture having a spent lamp when they first got that house...I think the spent GE Chroma 50 I got from him may have come from there.  I'm going to try and score that GE F40CW and see if it will light on either that shunted Universal Therm-O-Matic in my 3-lamp troffer or on my 277v Advance T8 ballast...the cathodes did not glow and the replacement lamps did, even only one when I improperly inserted it at first!
That light looks even older, has a REALLY wide reflector, and a yellow Underwriter's Laboratories sticker...I wonder if that ballast is ONLY rated for 40 watters? It was the brightest fixture for sure and warmed up fastest.
All the lights (except maybe the aforementioned one) have new sockets and he told me he remembered the previous owner (they were friends before HE got the house) over there changing bulbs and cursing up a storm one day...LOL.  But I might be getting that Sears light with the dim lamps...we will see...and I've warned him about 34 watt lamps and full-power ballasts...there were a couple laying around there, and one in use...
Someday, though, I'd love to score all four vintage fixtures!
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on April 07, 2014, 02:39:54 PM
It might have a full power ballast.

Reminds me of my cousin's grandparents' garage that I relamped. I left the old lamps there in a corner. I think the westies have missing endcaps (since they were loose and fell off when i removed them). The lamps are apparently still there untouched so I'm going to try and get them and bring them home. Hopefully one or two still work on RS and if not I'll likely get a good EOL show out of them...

I'd like tho score those three fixtures someday too. Plus there's three more in the basement and they all work too with their vintage lamps. One functions off it's pull chain as the only switch and it has a pair of Westinghouse F40/CW lamps. Another one has a wall switch mounted on the ceiling next to it and has a pair of DuroTest F40/CW lamps. The thrid was lampless but had a 34W red etched GE and a Westie F40/CW on the ground below it. That one had no pull chain or switch near it so I don't know if it had power or how to supply it...

I'd like to get those three two but they're hardmounted, not chained, and there are no free replacement fixtures for them lol. Also, she doesn't seem to really want me to change any of the lights out saying that she's fine with the existing lights. I've explained to her that I'm doing it for me since I want the old lights and I don't expect any payment or anything but she still doesn't seem to want me to do it. She's never flatout given me an answer either way though.

the ones in the garage will be easy to replace. I don't even need to open them. Just unhook the romex from the outside and unchain the fixture. Of course I'd take the lamps out before anything to avoid breaking them. If you remember, all the lamps are 70 CRI Sylvania CWP lamps. I replaced five lamps but only had four starters. One fixture got two new lamps and two new starters, one fixture got two new lamps and one new starter, and the other fixture only needed one new lamp and I gave it one new starter (the starter for the lamp I replaced obviously). I left the working lamp in there since it's got plenty of life left. Of course, it's my hope that I'll end up getting the fixtures so that means I get my lamps back too lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 07, 2014, 09:57:38 PM
Yeah those preheaters are cool! Since he wants to group relamp (What lamps should I suggest?) I'll likely score: a GE F40/KB, some Sylvania D50s, a GE C50, and a few others as well.
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on April 08, 2014, 02:33:19 PM
Is he/are you buying new lamps or are you using lamps from your stash? If you're buying lamps I'd grab a case of Sylvania CWP 70 CRI lamps if you can find one tucked away in the back of a shelf or soemthing at the store. If not, a case of Sylvania the new style CWX 87 CRI lamps would be your best bet, at least in my opinion. The 5000K lamps are nice but they're flickery on the grid never mind on a generator lol. Plus they are expensive so personally I'd save them for special applications like a kitchen where high CRI is more more important and a higher color temp is more desired. You could also use daylight if you don't mind the bluish light or spending more. I'm not a fan of either one; spending more or the bluer light lol.

I really like the 3500K lamps but I can never find full cases of them for F40T12s. The twin packs are nice but they're 10 bucks a pair whereas a case of them would range in the 20-30 dollar range.

I like cool white just because it's like the one-lamp-fits-all type deal so when buying lamps I like to buy cool white since I can use them anwywhere without the light looking too "weird". My second favorite color temperature is 3500K. It has a nice warm tone to it to give you that warm feeling but it's still a fairly white light and very bright. In fact, my two GE EcoLux (either 82 or 84 CRI) have a lot of lumens! I don't know off hand but I have the info from the sleeve taped to my tool box. Unfortunately they couldn't have passed the last regulation that set the bar at 87 CRI. :( So close too yet not close enough. Oh well...

Anyway, I guess GE or Sylvania would be good in either 3500K (if you can find them) or 4100K (or even 6500K if it's not too blue for him). If the ballasts make note of 34W lamps I guess you could use up some of those /WW 34W lamps of yours (or are they 40W?). Personally I'd avoid 34W lamps altogether and save yourself the hassle but if they list 34W lamps and they're in a basement (basements are typically cool year-round) then the ballasts wouldn't likely overheat.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 09, 2014, 08:11:18 PM
He wants to buy new lamps to be over the hassle of older ones...although he is by absolutely no means incapable of maintaining fluorescents...although I happily service these fixtures like they're my own.
I was thinking Sylvania F40/CWX...there's six fixtures there, two are cheap modern ones with dim flickery LPF ballasts but the other four probably have old full-power PCB containing ballasts so NO 34 watt lamps! (Although one of them has been running one for who knows how long...Universal Therm-O-Matic LOL?  Although Sylvania now makes 90CRI triphosphor 3000 lumen F40s! I am certain those are more expensive though...Although I'm very loyal to Sylvania Design 50/Daylight Full Spectrum despite their flickery characteristics. CWP would be okay although those were from that era where they flickery EVERY TIME they're turned on (Although these lights run for long periods; three of them are on whenever the generator is running). IDK if Sylvania still makes a F40/DX...(6500K); I don't see them at my nearest Spenard Builder's Supply (An Alaska home-improvement chain).  I guess 3000K soft white might be better in a woodshop as long as it's 90-ish CRI but the ones I saw in a supermarket vegetable cooler were /EcoLogic.  True-Value here sells GE lamps of their own brand in cool white (well now 87CRI C41) by the case but I think all others come in 2-packs...although they have some interesting, odd size lamps...like 18-ish inch HOs! (in 90s design sleeves of course). It could be GE 2600K "Reveal"/"Kitchen & Bath", 3500K "Office & Professional" like you have, 4100K "Residential Light"/"Basement & Garage", 5000K "Chroma 50"/"Sunshine"/"Closet & Laundry", or 6500k "Active Spaces".  BTW I dislike GE's new color names and packaging for fluorescents, though GE Ecolux lamps are of excellent quality from what I have seen. I'd be tempted to buy some 92CRI Philips "C50 Supreme" but I don't have a home depot near me. If I did, I'd want 6500K Daylight Deluxe Altos if they were my lights...
Some of the lamps there now are 5000K (GE Chroma 50 and Sylvania Design 50) and they don't seem to flicker except when cold but yeah...generators tend to have their hertz/cycles a little off...one of mine makes that Advance Kool-Koil ballast I have (with GE Chroma 50s) flicker horribly...
Most of the lamps are cool white though and that is the "universal" color...but it'd likely have to be pinkish CWX...which on it's own might be okay although I was personally not impressed with the one CWX lamp I bought and installed...
Since the ballasts might take note of 34 watt lamps it's going to be 40 watt lamps though for sure! Plus, 34 watt CWX lamps would be really dim.
Also that place has vintage glass screw in fuses and cartridge fuses! The whole building is "vintage" with the old wood-frame single-pane windows, etc...all sorts of other non-electric things there that are pretty cool too.   
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 09, 2014, 09:46:07 PM
what color are the 3000 lumen 92 CRI lamps? Not all CWP lamps had flickering issues. Yeah i still see daylight Sylvania lamps sold so they;re still made (in F40s that is). Lowe's sells GE F40T12s in 3000, 3500, 4100, 5000, and 6500 in GE 2-packs for about 10 bucks a pair here and they sell sylvania 10-packs in 4100K, 5000K, and 6500K. Yeah i agree that GE's packaging is very vague and make no mention of CRI which i find odd seeing how CRI is the big thing with these lamp regulations.

Well I'm sorta biased against /WW tubes lol but yeah in a wood shop /WW or /W (3000 or 3500K) would look best. Benny's (local hardware chain like Ace, etc) here sells single Sylvania F40T12/WX lamps. I'm really tempted to buy one but i don't know any info like lumens or CRI and the lamps are 5 bucks a piece. Their two packs of Sylvania CWX lamps are still less than that, though the CWP lamps were really cheap; $1.99 per lamp or $2.99 for a two-pack.

hmm i really liked the CWX lamps i bought but i never put a CW or CWP with one of the CWX lamps. The ones i bought didn't seem dim and purple though.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 15, 2014, 11:05:15 PM
4100K.
Me too! I don't like warm white all that much or even 3500k...although I'd still buy a Sylvania F40/WX just for the collection if I was you...
Mine isn't exactly running on a full power ballast either: an Advance 2XF40 electronic RS ballast wired for one lamp...I remember the line current was low but I don't remember exactly what it was...
I had a GE Watt-Miser die in my T8 bathroom light...for running on the wrong ballast it did great, lasting over a year with frequent switching...it died like this: it got down to 48 degrees in my house (fire went out and was gone all day).  In that temp it would not light fully...just dim glowing like a failed lamp on rapid start.  Then after a couple minutes it came to life fully with the violent orange flashing at the end...then went out (comtaminated? or not enough electrode left?) except for a purple glow at that end and a sparky discharge to the tube wall...after a few minutes that faded out then it lost vacuum with a very loud HISSSSSSSSSSS! When I took it out, I rolled the lamp around since I could hear a chunk of glass rattling around in there...the carnage was impressive once I scraped the phosphor off that end! The GE F32T8/SPX35s I replaced it and the identical lamp with are MUCH brighter and the warmer color seems odd now...
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on April 16, 2014, 02:09:05 PM
Oh wow 92CRI /CW lamps and it's actually bright! What kind are they? CWS or something?

Yeah my Sylvania Quicktronic T8 ballast put on a killer show with the Alto I got from the restore, probably since the electrode guard kept the glass from melting. All three of the other lamps lost vacuum though with a faint HISSS. :-\

Ah I love 3500K, especially in stores. 3500K looks a little more "normal" as T8 but I love my 3500K T12s. I think they're my brightest F40s. Myabe you'll get used to the warmer color. I've sorta gotten used to /WW but it's definetly not one of my prefered color temps.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 16, 2014, 07:53:49 PM
I like /WW for it's brightness but that's it.  I think they're triphosphor...not 87CRI CWX. 
I like 5000K 90CRI and 6500K personally...those are my favorite colors. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 18, 2014, 07:58:36 PM
I just scored another lamp of my personal favorite color: 90CRI deluxe halophosphor 5000K.  It's a 2013 Sylvania "Daylight Full Spectrum" which AFAIK is the new Design 50.  It was abused by being misinserted in a fixture with one of those awful LPF magnetic rapid start ballasts that almost NEVER stop flickering/rectifying (Is it any wonder why homeowners don't like fluorescent lights?).  It would just BARELY light, along with it's identical twin.  Took it home, and tried it on the ballast that least likes to start lamps: one of those Lithiona shoplights with a LOA type "preheat with electronic "starter" type ballast.  It lit but didn't seem super happy.  Next was a LPF magnetic rapid start like the one it was on, in which it lit.  To make sure it was in really good working condition, I tried it on a full-power Univesal Therm-O-Matic: lit right up! Now it's running in an 80s-90s LPF shoplight next to a GE warm white Mainlighter...looks cool with 3000K and 5000K actually! My one acceptable color mismatch is daylight and warm white.  It's BLACK, though, on both ends, for a brand-new lamp! (Maybe a bit defective?) We'll see how long it lasts before it quits rectifying, then it's time for the shunted 2-lamp HPF ballast I have, then my lamp-cooker 277v Advance T8 balallast, then of course HazMat.
Also I was visiting with the former teacher with the woodshop full of old RS shoplights today along with another somewhat-fluorescent-inclined person (Who gave me the aforementioned lamp).  His place is still fed by cartridge fuses, and one of them had finally corroded off at one end (the endcap pulls right off).  (a 50 amp 120v leg of 240v cartridge fuse that looks ancient).  Since part of their place is without power as a result, we were admittedly contemplating sticking something like a piece of copper pipe in there temporarily! It's not nearly as bad as it sounds since their brand-new generator (house is off-grid) has breakers on it as well, so it's not like it's a totally unfused line.  I did joke, however, that if there was a ReStore in the area (we're all garage-sale type people anyway) I'd be driving right down there and looking for a suitable fuse.  It's always nice when people with similar hobbies/knowledge can help each other.  The friend who gave me the daylight Syvania lamp was pretty sure he can solder the old fuse back together, though...I did take that opportunity to educate them on the dangers of wax paper capacitors in vintage fluorescent starters and how they can be clipped out quite easily.
Would a large electric motor (namely a commercial-grade 240v table saw) run at all on only one 120v leg, albeit with harder starting? His table saw had been having issues starting (dimming the lights (old Sears shoplights with full power ballasts) way down till it starts, etc)? We think that's why...
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on April 19, 2014, 02:59:47 PM
Ahh nice score! According to Aaron, Daylight Full Spectrum is their name for the 2-packs whereas the DESIGN50 name is for cases. That explains why my lamps from the same era are DSGN50 etched.

Hmm i don't know about the saw... I would assume a 240V appliance wouldn't work on 120V. But if it does, it's especially dangerous with the motor, as motors need to be driver in spec or you will destroy it. Same with all inductive loads but with motors this is especially important.

Well unfortunately, NGrid replaced a couple dozen 100W mercs on two nearly-all-MV-lit streets in Pawtucket. See the gallery for pics if you're interested. Now the only two streets left with a lot of mercs in Pawtucket are my mom's mom's & step-dad's street and the street parallel/next to to theirs.

Funny thing is, I reported a couple 100W mercs on my grandparents' street (which is across the main road from the two targeted streets) and they relamped them instead of replacing them. I've been very careful and strategic with reporting the mercs on Oakland Ave and Hughes Ave (my grandparents' street and the one next to it) to make sure they get repaired and not replaced. So far so good too. I have only a couple left on each street to get fixed since they're dimmed out but I'll need to be careful.

On the other streets I had never reported any lights since I had never seen them lit at night but I've been on top of Hughes and Oakland for a few years now and almost all of them are nice and bright. Around 10 years ago all the lights on their street were pretty dimmed out but thanks to me they're almost all bright. Maybe since they've all recently been relamped, they didn't do the recent mass-changeout there since it would have been a waste, since they're all basically bright as new except for the few I haven't yet reported.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 19, 2014, 11:29:19 PM
That explains what I was thinking...a more "residential" name...Do DSGN50 F96T12s exist? I'd love to find some for my eight foot fixture...I wonder if a 60w energy saver version is made? (Not that I'd buy those; those 60w lamps are awful IMO, flickering even in a heated indoor room at first!
As for running on 120v, it would've been one "leg" although I was talking with him again today and he hadn't lost power to the half that controlled so we think it was on it's way out then, and just not providing enough current to start that big 240v motor very well...I'd almost say it could be 208v or 277v but I doubt it...this is just normal single-phase 120/240v.
Another weird thing...we all know how generators tend to be a little off on their cycles/hertz, right? Would lights flicker if the hertz were too "fast"? (Namely 62 instead of 60?) Voltage on the leg we measured was 199.5v, so excellent voltage...weird...
Sorry to hear about the mercs...oh, well.  I'm actually liking the movement toward LED and induction streetlights for the simple fact that I think the orange of HPS is extremely nasty...but that's just me...
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on April 20, 2014, 02:08:09 PM
Hmm I'm not sure if 5000K 8ft lamps exist. I know Sylvania only makes the SuperSaver lamps in F40T12/CWX and F96T12/CWX but GE makes ES lamps in every color temp according to their site.

Hmm I'm not sure how altering the Hz would affect the lights.

I like that white-glow lamp sources are coming out but the new "green" street lights are just plain ugly. They can find a way to utilize existing cobrahead molds but they choose to come out with these alien things instead. >:( :8)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 20, 2014, 10:46:54 PM
I've seen LED and induction cobrahead conversion kits before...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 21, 2014, 03:55:35 PM
Yep conversion kits exist but most times utility companies will opt to replace rather than reuse/retrofit. :(
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 21, 2014, 09:57:04 PM
Yeah but that also means we can obtain fixtures if in the right place at the right time!
Did I ever mention I'm into vintage radios/stereo tuners/amps as well? I'd love to find a nice old fully functional Sansui, Kenwood, Pioneer, Marantz, Lafayette, etc. tuner with analog tuning, dial lamps, etc...those older radios have killer reception too! I now really regret not saving my late mother's 1988 Sanyo system...it was compact with only 18" tall speakers but had a turntable and tape deck, as well as a tuner.  It badly needed an external antenna though as it only picked up a few very local stations (on FM anyway).  I hope it didn't end up in a dumpster...and I also regret not saving those '88 Philips F40CWs made at the Lynn, Massachusetts Norelco plant.
I also am fortunate to have many friends in my area who are also junk collectors...we're the kind who, when in the city, go garage-saling every weekend. The friend who gave me that Sylvania Daylight Full Spectrum just today showed me a 5-gallon bucket full of mostly electrical parts from our friend who has the woodshop I will someday group-relamp...
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on April 22, 2014, 02:49:27 PM
Yeah you've mentioned it before. I've noticed that the tone is really low/deep on newer speakers and I don't like it. >:(

Yeah you gotta know people to get places lol. (and same goes to get things too lol)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 04, 2014, 12:44:13 AM
Yeah that's my situation! I like bassy speakers but I also like the older ones which are really trebly instead...the newer ones are all about bass!
I really like the sound of FM stereo, though with a weak signal it gets staticky/hissy quickly...although the only FM station in my area broadcasts in mono.  The advantage to that, though, is increased distance the signal travels...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 04, 2014, 08:18:23 PM
Some light sightings from a recent trip I took that I found interesting...
-A school I went to had some 2X4 parabolic troffers whose diffusers were mirrored but in like a 1" by 1" pattern...which made them rather lackluster in light output.  They were running all 34w lamps (Yes, they were T12!) Both cool white and warm white GE Watt-Misers in every generation since EPACT, including Ecolux.  Also there were a few "Guaranteed Xtra Long Life" F40/CW/ES Philips-made lamps.  Color mixup was mostly random, though a few rooms had only one of the two. IMO 34 watt warm white lamps (Which I had previously never seen in person) are even dingier than the cool white ones...I wonder how the daylight ones are?
Also an old college campus had this nice old mercury NEMA on a building...possibly a Joslyn, Westinghouse, etc.? It had the latch-on optics and a curved (Lexalite?) refractor (maybe glass?) and a very buzzy  ballast (you could hear it a few blocks away!) running a nice somewhat-dimmed-out clear BT28 lamp...could be a GE but likely Sylvania or a Westinghouse/Philips Lifeguard. 
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on May 04, 2014, 08:37:23 PM
Wow sounds like a nice variety! Yeah I've only ever seen /CW 34W lamps. I'd imagine daylight ES lamps to be a little greenish and semi-yucky looking lol.

Does the NEMA head look like mine on top? Westinghouse had the raised up part for the PC socket. I know American Electric/ITT/Thomas & Betts NEMA heads came with those tapered curved bottom Lexalite buckets so maybe it's an AE NEMA head. I think the Sylvania Ballast-in-Arm lights used them too.

Yeah likely the lamp isn't a GE. If it is, it's almost definetly an original lamp since by the mid-to-late 60s GE was using ED lamps. Could be Sylvania or Westinghouse though. Westie seems to have been the most commonly used MV lamp...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 06, 2014, 09:34:03 PM
Also a gas station mini-mart had a bunch of GE CX65 "DELUXE DAYLIGHT" (Didn't know that was still around with GE!) mixed in with Westpointe (True Value) 34 watters which by comparison looked like warm white!
It didn't even have an integral PC socket and the top was rounded...I'm no expert on NEMAs but still thought it was WAY cool and enjoyed being around it at night!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 07, 2014, 02:10:51 PM
Hmm if it's got a round top, it could be GE or a very early Westinghouse. I'm guessing a GE though...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 07, 2014, 11:31:57 PM
Ahh interesting...
My science/Spanish teacher and I were talking about insulators today!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 09, 2014, 12:35:54 AM
I'm currently doing research on a couple vintage Tripp-Lite square-wave 12v DC to 115v AC inverters my honorary grandfather has.  One is a huge, heavy 250w unit, and the other is an (ironically smaller in physical size) 400w unit.  Both are "square wave" too, not the "sine wave" of 120v grid power.  This can cause problems with some sensitive electronics, but resistive loads are OK.  This particular 250w unit has run radios and spiral CFLs just fine, though.  I'll post a pic soon...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 09, 2014, 11:09:38 PM
I switched out the 12v deep-cycle car battery that the 250w one was running on today since the old one would give you about 2 minutes of power...much better now!
I also took a bunch of dead lamps and ballasts to recycle/HazMat today, including a May 1976 cool white Mainlighter that didn't work, that Chroma 50 that took forever to finish off, and three dead Advance Kool-Koil F40 rapid start ballast...vintage but they didn't work and were therefore just more junk laying around...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 11, 2014, 11:17:48 AM
Oh the joys of talking with neighbors! I scored none other than a pair of VitaLite PowerTwist F40s! Pics to come later...
I'm also gonna try to talk them out of a pair of Philips pre-Alto Econ-O-Watt Lite White 34w F34s. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 11, 2014, 09:03:57 PM
Well this weekend has been a marathon of lighting finds! First were the VitaLite PowerTwist F40s.  (Which by itself is enough to make me permanently stop collecting!) Then it turns out I may get a bunch of old shoplights from a friend/woodshop teacher!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 14, 2014, 08:02:08 PM
Well I figured out why one of the vintage shoplights in my friend's woodshop is so flickery the other day...I finally opened it up and discovered none other than an obviously-replacement "US Fluorescent" LPF ballast in there! My friend even knows what a full-power Universal Therm-O-Matic or Advance Kool-Koil is, so we were laughing at the pathetic .75 amp line current! (Would be less but it's LPF!) I suggested we stick in 34 watt lamps since those seem to do better on those ballasts than F40s and even if they cook the ballast it it's an excuse to put in something more robust.  After removing a GE Watt-Miser from another fixture to pair it up with, I tried sticking in an Ace F40SP41 in it's place, and was having trouble.  No sooner than I remarked I didn't want to break a socket, POP! Friend was like, "It's fine, it's fine" but I'm still planning on bringing a socket on my next visit and offering to fix it...doesn't matter to me since, like Mike, I might be getting these fixtures in the future so any lamps/ballasts/sockets will likely be coming back to me.
In the past I've noticed all these fixtures except for one look like the lampholders have been replaced so I wonder if the ballasts are all crappy LPF ones? (Except for one really vintage looking one that's REALLY bright and warms up quickly in cold...I sense a nice full-power ballast in there!
He is considering replacing the fixtures with something else and giving them to me...he would like to move away from linear fluorescents and we're talking spiral CFLs with lots of ceramic JB sockets mounted to a board or something...possibly brighter and less flickery.  (Power usage isn't an issue, could use incandescents too!) Any ideas? We're NOT going with cheapo T8 shoplights though!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 14, 2014, 09:36:03 PM
Hmm. To replace each F40 fixture, get a 2X2 piece of wood (plywood, OSB, particleboard, whatever) and stick five round junction boxes on it, one at each corner and one in the middle. on the outer four use ~13W CFLs and the center one have a pull chain with a ~100W incandescent. you can use the incandescent when it's cold to keep the CFLs bright. In the summer, the incandescent isn't needed so pull the chain to keep it off. And just screw the 2X2 boards to the joists and you're done! If you don't want pull chains you can wire the center incandescents to their own circuit (which i suggest so you don't overload the existing circuit, as each light now is let's say 100W and if you have four 13W CFLs and a 100W incandescent that's 152W. Just make sure you don't run over 80% of 15A.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 16, 2014, 12:38:54 AM
I pictured a 4' 2X4 with lots of junction boxes but apparently he ordered something on eBay similar to a bath vanity bar light...we'll see! I might score a couple lights before the beginning of summer then! (Like yours, they'll be coming down one by one).  If not, they'll just keep them for me till I can get to them...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 16, 2014, 11:28:48 PM
I took down my Sears shoplight and put the Lithonia slimline in it's place.  I'm planning to eventually restore the Sears and/or use it as a plant light...it's reflector is perfect for that!
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on May 17, 2014, 03:13:28 PM
Ahh you're getting ready to restore it eh? 8)

I posted pics of my recent grabs. See  here.  (http://www.lighting-gallery.net/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=2782) It's the 3X F32T8 Lithonia parablic troffer from school (I also got two Sylvania Octron 3X F32T8 IS ballasts with sockets and lamps (so six extra GE SPX35 EcoLux lamps) and I grabbed the preheat chokes out of the undercabinet lights i took the lamps and starters from before).

and at my late grandpa's house (my grandma and aunt still live there) and tidying up the desk a little bit where the T17 is in the basement, i dropped a paper under the desk and bent down to pic it up and caught sight of an NOS F15T12/T8 trigger start strip light still in the box! :D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 17, 2014, 10:55:30 PM
Oh going through his personal stuff now I imagine? I just went through the same process a few months ago with my mom...cool! What era/ are you going to get it if you haven't already?
Nice! I like T8 stuff actually but nothing's better than a 70s-80s Universal 2XF40/RS! (As we all know). 
Maybe if I find some nice metal paint...I refuse to use wall paint but if I find some nice metal epoxy paint leftover from one of my boat projects in the future that's white I'll use that...gray or some other color would be OK for the topside though...for now it's not in use and a lamp tester I guess...I might put it back in the garage though since I'm not impressed with the Lithonia slimline being there...it's just too long, too low (It's a low ceiling anyway, plus it's suspended) and not any brighter than the Sears light with Sylvania Cool White Plus lamps on a GE Bonusline full-power ballast as opposed to some crappy 60w Sylvania Supersaver cool white slimlines...and my dad doesn't like it either. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 18, 2014, 08:55:13 PM
Not quite yet. This summer we'll go through his stuff. I was just rummaging around being nosey lol.

Yeah it's a pretty cool light. It's got its original GE lamps and both lamps and the ballast are from 2006 so the fixtures were probably installed in 2007 or something.

Yeah I don't like 8ft slimlines because they can be pretty dim and they always flicker. Even the 75W lamps don't really impress me, though they're certainly better than the 60W lamps. I don't really care for slimlines in general, though I love HOs.

Yeah I hate stuipd laytex paint that peels off stuff. I'd personally stock up on some spray paint the next time you go into town. one can of gray is plenty and half a can of white is plenty. I use Rust-Oleum "smoke gray" for the gray parts and "gloss white" for the inside of the reflector. Whatever you do, don't mix paint brands with spraypaint.

For silver lights like westinghouse lights i use Rustoleum Hammered Silver and for gray street lights i use Krylon "Pewter Gray". One thing I've learned is to also spray a clear emanel coating over the gray or silver to prevent chipping since those two colors aren't enamel like the ones used for fluorescent lights. The paint on my OV-25 and M-250A and RMA NEMA head scratches easily.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on May 18, 2014, 09:50:39 PM
Went to Restore this weekend again lol. Not much of interest but I did find a brand new LED track head for 5 bucks.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 18, 2014, 11:23:35 PM
I'm not that familiar with 75w slimlines since all the slimlines I'm around have 60w lamps from that EPACT era when 75w lamps were hard to get for awhile there in the late 90s and early 2000s...I'd like to find some 75w 5000K or 6500K lamps for it!
How about house paint on galvanized steel? That peels right off with a flat-bit screwdriver at least...I'm currently doing just that on my boat. 
I actually kinda like the smell of new latex paint though since it smells fresh and new to me...LOL
I'll have to try spraypaint...I always thought spraypaint was chincy though although it does have the advantage of no brush/roller marks or missing hard-to-reach areas. 
My honorary grandfather and I were cleaning out his shop at the old house he sold (he's getting some of that stuff back) and I scored an (albeit spent) Norelco F40CW and 90s Sylvania F40/CW.  That Norelco was the first lamp I ever saw "Norelco" on a light bulb (I remember it from my childhood). 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 19, 2014, 07:39:22 PM
Yeah my grandpa's shop has both 75W full mercury and 60W slimlines. The 75W ones are brighter but still flicker. 5000K or 6500K lamps would be cool. I've only see 4100K and warm white 8ft lamps.

Spraypaint is high quality stuff when you're not vandalizing property with it lol. No brush strokes and a nice even coat. As good as a factory paint job if you do it right. I tend to overspray and make the paint run a little though lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 19, 2014, 09:35:12 PM
Are the 60 watt lamps reduced mercury? Yeah the 60 watters SUCK in cold...mine in my garage are pretty useless honestly!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 20, 2014, 01:33:56 PM
I don't know... They're 60W CWX Sylvania SuperSavers but I don't remember if they're also Ecologic
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 22, 2014, 11:38:19 PM
Yeah they must be pretty dim!
Remember how I was taking about how I have a knack for running into people with similar interests? Well I ran into someone today who likes vintage stereo tuners! I got to talking to them after noticing their sweatshirt advertised Ridgid LED Lighting...LOL
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 23, 2014, 06:10:30 AM
Nice! it's always good to meet new people woth similar interests. :D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 23, 2014, 11:40:17 PM
Yeah you can really educate each other, as well as being able to relate. For example,he guy I'm getting the vintage shoplights from even knows what one of those 70s Universal Therm-O-Matic ballasts is!
I also like talking to people about off-grid power systems...that can be interesting! I'd like to install some solar panels at my (off-grid) house since I have to run a gas generator to charge my batteries...it's still a savings as opposed to running a generator 24/7 (Although I'd NEVER do that; in the previous (also off-grid) place I lived in I shut it off and just didn't have power at night while sleeping, during the day when there's light coming through the windows, etc...(Well there was a 12v car battery running a small 400w inverter for an answering machine on the phone and one table lamp). My current house has a wind generator that worked for eight months before it crapped out...and it did make a difference but I was still kinda disappointed so solar is the way to go IMO since it's more constant and wind generators are rather noisy...WHIRRRRRRRRRRRRBBBBBBBBIIIIIIZZZZZZZZZEEEEEEE!
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on May 24, 2014, 07:52:11 PM
Yeah the only thing is though, if you tell someone how much to value something that they have, they might take advantge of that and try to get some money out of you. But if you are friends with the person then there is no big deal.

Yeah there's been a few wind turbines put up here but i think solar is the way to go. The problem is, for big buisnesses, they literally need a solar field since they often can't fit enough panels on the roof if there's HVAC stuff or whatever.  Some solar fields are the size of ballparks or bigger!  (http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2011/06/solar-field.jpg)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 24, 2014, 11:57:58 PM
Ever seen one of those grid-tie solar systems? Someone's house had one...they had no batteries and would send excess power back into the grid, turning the meter backwards, but at night they were buying power from the utility.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 25, 2014, 09:09:44 PM
yeah I've heard of those. I heard some story about Africa being europe's solar power plant. They certainly get a LOT of solar energy in the desert areas! It seems up your way solar power is good in the summer but don't you have very limited sunlight in the winter months? In the winter i guess either wind turbine or generator would be your best bet...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 26, 2014, 08:53:53 PM
Yeah probably although still better than wind (less sporadic).  I was not impressed with my wind turbine...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 26, 2014, 09:16:00 PM
LOL yeah if you're not in a windy area than wind turbines probably aren't the best option. If you live right on the coastline or in the mountains then wind turbines are great since there's always a wind off the coast and up in the mountains.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 26, 2014, 09:20:07 PM
My house is more or less waterfront although there are lots of mountains here. (And tall trees!) We get lots of rain here. 
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on May 27, 2014, 06:11:42 PM
BTW, restored the M-400A2 going to darren. See the gallery. ;D I was able to get my hands on two PC sockets too from Ryan so the M-400A2s have PC sockets too.  8) Up next, I'll restore my M-400A2. :D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 28, 2014, 11:56:18 PM
Oh nice! I need to someday get off my lazy posterior and save and restore that M-400A!

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 29, 2014, 02:01:22 PM
Yes! Get pics! ;D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 29, 2014, 10:43:51 PM
We shall see...I'll also have to look for a lamp for it at the local ReStore...that alone will be fun!
I was talking to the same person who gave me those PowerTwist lamps and scored some PL13s! (3 of them).  They were sent by mistake...I was commenting on some Philips tubular exit sign lamps he had and needless to say that was that! This enabled be to test that Abco PL13 adapter.  There was what turned out to be the base of a broken-off lamp in there, puzzling me as to how to insert the new lamp at first...the base seemed wrong so I thought maybe I'd scored some lamps intended for electronic ballasts, not preheat...but I grabbed a pocketknife and it popped right out, exposing the actual socket...the lamps are very blinky and slow-starting! (More so than other preheat fluorescents I have)
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on May 30, 2014, 04:10:25 PM
Yeah, PL lamps are very blink-happy. ;D Have you ever noticed that the electronic ones start off really dim and reddish-pink though and then warm up? the preheat ones start off dim too but fairly bright. There's a room in my school called the Meshanticut (pronounced "muh-shan-uh-cut"; the T is silent) Room and it has recessed cans with electronic PLs lamps and they start off really really dim and pink like they're mercury starved/EOL on a cold start and then they warm up just like HIDs. I don't know if it's the lamps or if it's just the type of lamp it is... :-\

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 30, 2014, 11:29:06 PM
Mine did but it's decently bright.  Not sure of the brand, they're just generic "PL-13w 2700K" lamps.  They seemed dimmer than I thought but are about the same as a 13w 2700K spiral CFL (a 13w GE Helical, my house has tons of those)
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on May 31, 2014, 03:54:44 PM
I actually find the 13W preheat PL lamps to be dimmer than the 13W spirals but I would never say that out loud lol. I find that they flicker a little bit too. i wish I could find themin color temps besides warm white too. I'm sure I can buy other color temps but I haven't had to buy PL lamps yet because every adapter I've gotten has come with unused warm white lamps so I just keep those.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 01, 2014, 11:00:12 PM
I usually use the stock /WW lamps but when they quit I use CW...I would like to find 6500K PL13 lamps. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 03, 2014, 12:29:53 AM
I've seen 3 70s Westy F0CW blackenders this week! (I already knew about all 3).  Two are in a vintage-looking 2-lamp strip which is visibly disconnected in someone's shed and the other is next to a warm white Sylvania Lifeline in a cheapo 90s shoplight in the same friend's garage with the Lithonia F48?HO fixtures (lamped with May 2003 Altos which are BRIGHT!) I'm going to try to get that Lifeline and those blackenders. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on June 03, 2014, 06:07:47 AM
Nice! Try and see if you can get the disconnected fixture and its lamps. :D Also, if the lifeline and westie are in a newer junky shoplite, maybe it's safe to bet that those lamps are from the fixture that got replaced by the shoplite? i wonder wht fixture the lifeline and third westie were in originally...

I heard the HO Philips lamps tend to go mercury starved so pretty good if they've done around ten years of service.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 08, 2014, 05:03:56 PM
Possibly an older/vintage shoplight...I don't know. 
These almost never get used so I don't think they've had a chance to yet...
I'm thinking I'm "electropathic" (Joking of course).  I've joked about the coincidence of driving under cycling HPS streetlights and having them go off when I pass under...I think my power is culminating since I've had multiple motor-driven power tools (Cordless DeWalt drill, DeWalt router, leaf blower, etc) burn up while I was around...and all during the last couple weeks! And I had the "talking" smoke/carbon monoxide detector in my bedroom go off for no reason last night! (Scared the cr@p out of my Dad and I at 11PM).  Funny thing is, I was just describing that to someone that day...of course I'm sure nothing is wrong with me except that I'm plagued by irony...always have been my whole life...
On a different note, I might be getting the first of several of those woodshop lights soon (In the next couple days) or if not then next fall.  (I'll be gone all summer)...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on June 08, 2014, 09:08:31 PM
LOL yeah ironic things have happened to me. I tend to interfere with radio signals lol. I don't know if i should take it as a ft joke or if I have magic radio-signal-interuppting powers lol.

nice that you're getting some of the lights! I went to the ReStore yesterday. pics in the galelrt on the GoL and LG. 8)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 09, 2014, 09:14:20 PM
All we can figure is I must have farted in my sleep...although another thing happened: One of the almost-brand-new GE F32T8/SPX35s in my bathroom light mysteriously lost vacuum! It's on instant-start and frequently switched, and didn't even have blackening yet!
Yeah I'm excited too! I'll keep ya guys posted...
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on June 10, 2014, 04:29:34 PM
Ahh that's interesting. I guess it's not rare for a lamp to loose vacuum on an IS ballast but it's odd that it had little use. Maybe it was hit or something by accident? How long as it been in?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 10, 2014, 11:57:08 PM
I would say about two months.  I could check phone records for a personal event to be sure because I remember being on the phone for something important while watching the GE F40CW/RS/WM in there before fail...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on June 12, 2014, 06:18:22 PM
Hmm maybe there was a tiny little crack that worsened over time?

I finally cleaned the sixth Holophane Prismalume highbay today. I washed the other five before the winter but the sixth one I didn't get to until today lol. I did the other five at the same time but kept the sith one assembled so I'd know how to put the other five back together and then never got around to the last one lol. Well, did it today. Now i need to find either six 400W MH/MV ballasts or six 350W PSMH ballasts for cheap...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 13, 2014, 12:07:38 AM
Try a local scrapyard or the Restore and keep checking...even yardsales and thrift stores! Chances are one or more will eventually turn up!
I'm noticing things in common among us lighting enthusiasts: cats, excavators, plumbing, basic construction knowedge, vintage radios/tuners/amplifiers, etc!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on June 13, 2014, 06:06:22 PM
LOL I'm really only into lighting. I have a small minute interest in plumbing and general construction though. I like cats but I'm allergic lol. I haven't met anyone else that likes automatic door decals though lol. well there's two people on flickr but they live far far away lol.

BTW, my worst nightmare has finally come true. GE DISCONTINUED the T17 lamps!!!! :o :'(  :o :'(  :o :'( I will have two F90T17s in my possession and will have JUST enough lamps to give them each two working lamps (thanks to my late grandpa who bought a pair of spare T17s, the poor guy blew 100 bucks on a pair of bulbs.). So I'll have them working but I won't have any replacement lamps. I have plenty of starters for the two fixtures though. I'll probably never need to replace the starters since they're cut-out starters. Plus my grandpa kept a stash of regular non-manual reset Sylvania starters with the triangular logo with the electricity bolt.

I'll scoop up the starters the next time I'm down there alone and when the time comes, I'll grab the lamps and fixture. They're not going anywhere. I'll get the one at my great-aunts too. My great-aunt has the T17, an 8ft 2X F40T12 wall mount preheat light that doesn't work (haven't figured out why), and two more of the Western Electric Spec'ed F20T12/TS lights downstairs. She also has a 2X F40T12/RS strip and a single lamp F40/RS strip. I'm converting the strips to T8 when I convert her outlets from 2-prong to 3-prong. I'll bring a pair of F40s and FS4 starters to see if i can get the 8ft T12 preheater going too. We don't even know where the switch it or if it's connected lol. I swear i saw it lit one time but i don't remember. The lamps were a Westy and a mainlighter but the westie didn't work in the single lamp strip so we tossed it. The mainlighter does work though (its cool white). It's in the F40 LPF single lamp strip since the strip's lamp died. So it's currently lamp-less. The starters are manual reset too. looks like a 40s era fixture.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 13, 2014, 11:46:03 PM
Nice! Do you know what "Water hammer" is? How about OSB vs plywood?
Nice! Keep wading though Restore and you might find some F90T17 lamps...
As for the 8' preheater: First try new (but tested in a working fixture previously, then again to make sure a bad ballast didn't blow them) lamps.  (Like 34 watt Altos LOL).  Next, try new starters. If that doesn't work, try new sockets.  If STILL nothing, disconnect the ballast from the line wires and see if you get voltage there.  If yes, the ballast is likely bad, although I suppose you could try new wirenuts or something.  If not, the ballast is likely good, so either take the light down or, if you have no space, convert it to T8 in the meantime.
I would save both F40 strips...those vintage 2XF40 strips are cool! The single-lamp one is a great opportunity for a little preheat conversion project!
I just had another thought: If that Westy blackender didn't work, I wonder if maybe somebody stuck in a series rapid start ballast in there at some point over the years/decades? If so the other lamp might not have worked.  If so the original ballast is likely dead and/or long gone. 
What did the single-lamp strip have originally? And doesn't the dual-lamp one have a Sylvania Gro-lux from the 70s?
Another update on the woodshop lights: The first two replacement fixtures have arrived and the CFL reflector lamps will hopefully show up tomorrow.  I likely won't be there to remove the vintage shoplights they're replacing, but I imagine I'll get the one with the broken socket (Which I broke changing a lamp; I have a socket to fix it but he said just don't worry, they're coming down anyway) along with it's identical companion.  (Both are Sears fixtures like mine).  There's another vintage-looking shoplight I'd like someday but it's nice and bright and flicker-free with I assume a full-power, PCB-laden, 40-watt-only ballast.  I've warned him to not use 34 watt lamps in that light.  It currently has a GE kitchen/bath and Sylvania Design 50.  He likes that fixture as much as I do! He even knows our favorite: 70s Universal Therm-O-Matics, from personal experience! (Albeit changing out dead ones).  He also knows Advance Kool-Koils, as he had two but they died and he gave them to me...too bad...they were full power but post PCB.  Ironically there's photos in that room of the previous shop, with those fixtures lit! You can't see the Sears shoplight I already have though.  Granted, that was 20 years ago in a different house.  I'm getting really excited! I'm not sure if they'll come with their lamps but I'm fine either way since I have plently of (era appropriate) lamps for them.  (GE Mainlighters). 
We also talk about construction, plumbing, etc. under those very lights! He's also into all things vintage!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on June 14, 2014, 07:17:15 AM
Nope don't know whaterhammer but i learned about OSB versus plywood in my construction class. My construction teacher basically summed it up with that OSB is a cheap, sucky alternative to plywood lol.

Yeah I will bring a pair of lamps and a pair of starters and a voltmeter. It's definetly still preheat. Because when i remember it being lit, one lamp came on way before the other. i think the main issue here is that we can't find the switch lol. There's so many switches for everything it's crazy! lol

nah i don't really want the strip lights. the single lamp one has a robertson ballast and it used to have a 34W red etch GE but now has the /CW mainlighter from the preheater. The 2-lamp strip indeed has a lifeline etch Sylvania GroLux and a 35W red etched GE. All 3 lamps were red etched GEs but only one is left because I didn't know any better when i was younger.


Ahh glad you're getting some lights from the woodshop! yeah my only full power RS ballasts are Therm-O-Matics.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on June 17, 2014, 06:00:07 PM
whew, windy and rainy day today. It was nice in the morning and early afternoon though. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on June 17, 2014, 09:46:05 PM
ah i think that's headed my way next. wednesday is gonna be close to 90F. :o Warmest day so far this year.

the next time i go to the restore, it will be the putnam connecticut store where i got the two MV lamps and saw the square fresnel glass recessed lights. i wonder if they still have some left...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 20, 2014, 01:22:40 PM
Yeah I've even knowingly tossed vintage F40s that didn't work...IMO it's useless if it doesn't work...I can appreciate a working lamp so much more than a dead one...
Who makes the older 2X40 strip? I wonder if that ballast is a Universal Therm-O-Matic? LOL it would not surprise me! For me it's usually (albeit dead) Advance Kool-Koils.
Get that Mainlighter lamp for sure! A 34 watter will work decently on that single-lamp LPF ballast if you have one you want to use up (Like a 34w Alto or something)
Yeah I'll score the fixture(s) at the end of the summer...they're probably already removed but I'm gone for the summer.
I was in True Value yesterday and checked out their lamps/ballasts...I saw some /CW Ecolux 34w Watt-Misers, some "True Value" new phosphor F40s, (Went back to the TV name instead of "Westpointe" but the sticker said "Wespointe"-Universal Bulb".  I also saw some slimlines there but they were "True Value" 60w energy savers (new phosphor C41).  Interesting but I'd rather have 75 watt lamps...I'll look for some Sylvania 75s at SBS but if not maybe I'll buy a pair as spares for when my Sylvania Supersavers die...
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on June 20, 2014, 03:20:44 PM
Yeah I agree, dead lamps are useless to me as well. Plus my space is very limited. If it works (albeit not that well) I'll keep it and just not use it because one it dies it's out lol.

I've never opened the two lamp fixture so I don't know what kind of ballast is in it. LOL yeat imagine if it was another Universal Therm-o-matic? lol. Yep, when i convert the light I have every intention of keeping the old lamps and ballasts. The two lamp fixture is getting a 2X F32T8/IS Accupro ballast (rebranded as McCann Lighting) and the single lamp fixture is getting a single lamp Philips Advance 32W PL ballast that runs F32T8s fine. The ballast is programmed start too. I already put the sockets on the balalst leads so all I have to do when I go is remove the old ballasts and sockets and install the new ballasts and sockets. I'll keep the removed sockets and reuse them elsewhere.

BTW, remember you had asked me to get some Sylvania F40/WX lamps? Well I got two today. they were $4.99 each so i took off the $4.99 stickers and swapped them with a couple $2.99 stickers on some nearby Sylvania CWX lamps lol. I don't see the reason for a two dollar difference in price just because the lamp color is different... Anyway, they're the same color as 3500K lamps, just with an oldschool F40/WX etch instead of F40T12/WX. They say White Deluxe on them too and were made in 2013. Nice lamps but they seem a little dim IMO. They're probably just 87 CRI 3500K lamps but they're really cool lamps just from the oldschool style lamp code.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on July 11, 2014, 06:07:17 PM
I know Philips does something like F40T12/DAYLIGHT DELUXE nowadays for an ordering code (I used my favorite color as am example)
I stopped over at the woodshop teacher's house for a visit a few days ago and they have removed two of the Sears fixtures as well as a modern residential Lithonia? wraparound.  They all have LPF ballasts though...the Sears lights must have had their ballasts cooked by the attack of the 34 watt lamps in the mid 90s LOL...I even said so then!
Ballasts are an Advance (Lithonia fixture) and a MagneTek and a US Fluorescent.  I'm also getting about a dozen lamps, inter alia a GE F40CW with the pre- 1992 etch, another Sylvania Design 50, and tons of Ace and True Value F40SP41 lamps (made by GE).  I didn't grab anything this time though since I was in a hurry and did not have the option to transport them home at the time.  I might also get that 90s-Ecolux era GE F40C50 too...it's in a Power-Products shoplight (That flickered horribly, espeically with /950 lamps!)
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on July 12, 2014, 05:57:10 PM
Hmm I didn't know that. I just try to stay away from Philips lol. I know Sylvania uses the /850, /841, etc codes for their T8 lamps but just use the simple oldschool etches for T12s. GE uses their SP-whatever etches and last I checked Philips had used the same style as Sylvania for T8s. Yuck! Foolish NPF/LPF ballasts. >:(

Yeah the 87CRI 5000K lamps don't flicker like the 90CRI 5000K lamps. I actually like the 87CRI ones better. I have a case of 10 of the 90CRI Sylvania Design 50 lamps but have six of the GE CX50 lamps (87CRI) lamps which I actually like better even though I'm a Sylvania fanatic.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on July 12, 2014, 10:34:33 PM
I like all 3 major brands...
I'm thinking I might have to go back on a major promise and start buying 34 watt lamps since I now have many LPF-ballasted fixtures that underdrive 40 watt lamps...
General rule of thumb for HPF and LPF ballasts I thought of last night: .80/.85 amp- 40w only.  .75a and under: 34w ok.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on July 13, 2014, 04:57:39 PM
Eh I'll buy Philips Altos if they're at a discounted price (like a buck a piece) or free. I won'tpay full price for Altos. Same way I won't pay full price for 34W lamps.

Yeah I'll use 34W lamps on ballasts rated for them but first they must pass a heat test. I will run the ballast with 40W tubes for a few hours and see how hot it gets. then the next day i will run the ballast with 34W lamps and see how much hotter it gets with 34W lamps. My Cooper turret's Mark III ballast passed the test a-okay. I know i can run 34W lamps in single lamp NPF strip lights but I never think to do that. My few 34W lamps are buried by 40W lamps so I usually just grab a 40W lamp.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on July 15, 2014, 08:50:33 PM
Yeah I might start having to look for/buy them with all the LPF residential ballasts I have/am getting!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on July 21, 2014, 07:51:08 PM
 I updated my website today.  (http://myvisittojoemaurathjrs.weebly.com/)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on July 21, 2014, 11:03:04 PM
Looks good! I have a Weebly but haven't updated it in YEARS...
I might pick up the first wave of woodshop lights and about a dozen lamps (GE F40CW, True Value and Ace SP41, Sylvania Design 50 and maybe a GE Chroma 50) tomorrow when I'm in that town/area (My job requires traveling a lot). 
I plan to try the mercury-migration thing on all those LPF ballasts!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on July 22, 2014, 11:13:34 AM
Thanks. Good luck with those fixtures and lamps! I love getting new lights and I'm sure the feeling is the same for all collectors. ;D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Lil'Cinnamon on July 22, 2014, 02:13:18 PM
Hmm, I made this topic, but I never come in here. xD

I need to do more stuff on this site, I mean, I own this place. xD But even so I'm glad this still has activity.

Not quite sure all what to do though, this place isn't all too active, but I'm happy that it is anyway.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on July 22, 2014, 07:28:30 PM
Yeah I've noticed that the activity on the site has dropped quite a bit the past two years or so. Jace used to do contests like "Design your own Cobrahead" and we had a contest for picking the gallery album thumbnails. Maybe we can pick new icons for the gallery? Probably more than half the members on the site have been inactive for more than two years.

Maybe send an email/annoucement to everyone asking why they're inactive. Like if it's because of the site or if it's because they just got busy, left the hobby, or whatever. There's a good number of us that are on at least once a week. Me and a few others are usually on every day or every other day. The GoL is a great site and thank you for keeping the site alive! :D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on July 23, 2014, 11:52:10 AM
Yeah thank you! I used to be more active but I have all sorts of non-lighting things going on right now...LOL
Yeah I'll post pics when I get them!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on July 23, 2014, 04:18:23 PM
Well today I replaced all the CFLs in my kitchen and dining room with new A-shaped Maxlite 13W CFLs. Three of the four lamps in the litchen light were already MaxLite CFLs since they replaced failed GE Helicals but the other five CFLs still worked. I replaced them all since the A-shaped ones look nicer and now they all match. Plus, the old CFLs had yellowed plastic. Not that yellowed but I just replaced them. They're pretty close to 10 years old so they've already payed for themselves through energy savings.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on July 23, 2014, 09:31:54 PM
I remember in the early-mid 2000s the CFLs (Which were programmed electronic rapid-start!) would yellow slightly after some use.  I hadn't seen that in years until some "Western Family" (Feit) 23w 2700K ones I have started turning BROWN! (The plastic must not be UV-retarding).
I've also seen CFLs (And linear fluorescent lamps) whose appearance darkens after many years of (especially for long hours) use...CFLs "gray", linear fluorescent lamps can appear "Grainy" and F34CWs appear yellowish when off, and get a nasty greenish-yellow light output.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on July 23, 2014, 10:38:11 PM
Yep there's two programmed start CFLs in my house (GE helicals). They're really cool since they're programmed start. They look like regular Helicals though. I get nervous running CFLs base-up and I'm guessing the plastic has dried out after nearly 10 years so I don't want to take any chances. The only thing about the A-shaped CFLs is that you can't tell if the plastic around the ends of the spiral is discolored.

No one else in my family uses CFLs, and we only have a few besides the eight i installed. My aunt and uncle (the parents of my cousins whos grandma has preheaters in the garage; their houses are attached) have CFL reflector lamps in some of their recessed cans though and have LED floods outside.

All three sets of grandparents refuse to use CFLs. My aunt and uncle with the house that has the basement full of preheaters can't use them since nearly every switch in the house is a dimmer switch. My great-aunt says CFLs give off a gross light: "I just don't like them".

My parents had joined the bandwagon in the mid-2000s, trying out CFLs in the kitchen, dining room, all three bedrooms, outside, and in the basement. I replaced my room's CFLs with LEDs in either 2011 or 2012, and they still work (as they should!). My brother's room had two CFLs quit working so he's got one programmed start CFL and two 40W incandescents. My parents have the other programmed start CFL in their room and have either another IS CFL or an incandescent. Out of the four basement dome lights (I'll admit that I always refer to them as "boob lights" lol), one kept the same lamp all these 11 years (40 or 60W incandescent) and three had CFLs. Two had their CFLs replaced with 60W incandescents. Then all three had 75W equivalent halogens installed but one of them died and now has a 60W incandescent. I plan to get a new halogen for it.

My parent's bathroom has one 60W incandescent and a four-lamp candelebra base 40W globe lamp vanity fixture. My bathroom has a 53W (75W=) halogen lamp and a three-lamp 60W medium base globe vanity fixture with all three original 11-year-old lamps. The hallway light upstairs had both original 52W Sylvania incandescent SuperSaver lamps in it. The light over the sink in the kitchen has two lamps. Dunno what though... The five-lamp chandelier over the stairs has all five original incandescents. The one keyless lampholder that I haven't replaced out of the four (its in the garage) still has its original 90W incandescent supersaver. When the house was built and the fixtures were installed i think the electrician had used all Sylvania SuperSavers (90W in the basement keyless holders and 52W in everything else though the outside lights had clear 60W Sylvanias). The three closet lights all had Sylvania F20/CWs from 2003. Mine is the only one with the original lamp, though i converted mine from TS to PH.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on July 23, 2014, 11:40:18 PM
I have lots of those GE Helicals but mine are instant-start. 
I also find the fake incandescent look of 2700K triphosphor commonly found in CFLs an icky color sometimes, though it seems to vary lamp by lamp.  Newer ones seem whiter/pinker.  I like it for the most part, though some people might find it sickening and dingy.  I can always tell an incandescent from a CFL though by it's light.
Dimmer switches: I've never had or tried a dimmable CFL but none of my switches are dimmers. One used to be, but it got fried by modified-sine-wave inverter electricity and now only turns on and off, just like a regular light switch.  I'm using a CFL there, so I can't use a dimmer, and I don't really miss it that much anyway!
I remember some neighbors giving my late mother and I some Commercial Electric 2700K 14w spirals, which lasted a long time in partial use (Sometimes in service, other times sitting out of use in the light bulb bag).  None had dies by the time I cleaned out the house in January of this year (2014) after she passed.  I remember that neighbor's house had lots of those bulbs too.
My Dad was rather hard to convince.  In the past, he'd tried them and was unimpressed, as he told me over the phone once.  I think a big thing in the early days of CFLs was that people expected them to come on at full brightness immediately, just like the incandescents had as long as the baby-boomer generation could remember.  Us milennials know better!
Interestingly, though, from that time I have a "Conserv-Energy" (Feit) 13w spiral from that early era (Installation date written on it is 2003) and it's in use to this day.  It's been around: I assume my Dad bought it, then it ended up in my honorary grandfather's possession on his boat, the boat was sold, and 2 owners later it was given back to me! I now have it in daily use on my boat. 
Finally, in 2009, while living off-grid on a 3000-watt generator, we decided they might be worth another try to try to reduce the gas bill and wear and tear on the generator.  We bought a 4 pack of "Western Family" (Again, Feit) 23w spirals.  I remember him going for the 100w replacement instead of the 60w since "They'll only be as bright as a 60w".  (Again, people not used to the warm up time!) They stuck out of the decorative fixtures in that house, being larger than the 40 and 60 watt incandescents they replaced, and were "too bright and glary" and "the light is funny" and all that stuff.  So we ended up taking a few out of service.  Then there was a CFL grant in my area with TCP-made 23w 2700K spirals...same thing.  Finally, in my current house, he started to tolerate them, though 5000K ones get negative comments.  I use preheat circline adpaters wherever space allows and I don't think he particularly cares for those either...
I fired up my Lithonia 8ft slimline fixture for the first time in over a month just now for a couple minutes.  I really need to find 75 watt lamps for that thing, although I half know I'll still use the 60w ones till they die.  The local True Value has 60w C41 GE-made self-branded F96T12s, which I might end up buying a pair of as spares, but I'm always looking out for (even used and warm white) 75 watters.
I have a pair of 3w "Designer's Edge" 6400K PAR LEDs outside my front door and they're not the brightest thing in the world by any means but enough to see the door and porch and that section of driveway and can be left on all night on a 12v battery bank running on an inverter without running the batteries down like 150w PARs would. 
I actually just bought a 4 pack of GE 72w halogens but haven't tried them yet.  I'm a CFL user but just curious what they're like and what the lifespan really is.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on July 24, 2014, 01:34:04 AM
I almost thought the ballast in the Sears shoplight died tonight...the light has been seldomly used since I moved it to my storage loft and hadn't been turned on at all in over a month. Luckily it turned out that extension cord (Power is unavailable up there so I have a cord running to the garage) was plugged into a currently-dead outlet! In fact, I could see through the cracks in the subfloor (storage loft is above the garage/shop) that it instant-started! (That ballast has always tended to do that).  I remember very well when I first got that fixture, carried it about a mile in my arms (I walk my daily commute) with sawdust falling off it the whole way, brought it home, opened it up and saw "General Electric" "Bonus Line Ballast" and "Line current .80 amp" and was thrilled to find this was much more than just a run-of-the mill modern shoplight (I was much less educated about vintage fluorescents then).  I didn't EVEN try it with the 90s 34w cool white GE Watt-Miser lamps that came with it, but immediately stuck in 40w lamps.  I also broke a socket trying to put the reflector back on...but once that was fixed and it lit up for the first time outside of it's previous home that was the best thing I'd seen that day for sure!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on July 24, 2014, 09:57:43 AM
Ahh i don't have any dimmer switches in my house either.  I guess my parents really don't care what we use as long as it gives off light. My mom said she doesn't mind the warm up time for the Maxlite CFLs (these things start off REALLY dim, the Helicals are usually pretty close to full brightness when first turned on).

I've only ever seen "soft white" CFLs for sale. My aunt and uncle have a couple cooler looking ones and I'll admit, it seems weird having that color come from them. I always associate cooler kelvin light with linear fluorescents, not compact lamps.

Oh the GE halogen lamps are complete junk. They actually dim out like mercs! And then they get dimmer and dimmer until they don't work. This can happen within an hour or take up to a year but I do not recommend GE halogens. I bought Sylvania halogens and they performed much better. one was a dud out of the box but it was due to a broken filament, not loss of vacuum.

Ahh when I got my 1973 shoplite, I actually had plans to chop it down to a F15T12 fixture. :o When I had posted a pic of the ballast and someone said it was from 1973 I changed my mind, repainted the fixture, put it back together, and installed it in my utility room, replacing the stupid Lithonia F17T8 basket wrap. How did the outlet die? Was it just not connected to power or did something actually go wrong?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on July 24, 2014, 08:12:21 PM
I don't mind that warmup time in some cases...for example in a bathroom or bedside lamp it would not blind you at 2AM but instead would give your eyes time to adjust!
I see both...I only plan to buy 5000K or 6500K ones in the future, though.
It'll be interesting to see if that is the case with mine...I'll keep you guys posted.  I guess they could be moved to places where lower light levels are required as they age.
Interesting!
Also I forgot to add I have a couple of those feminine-part-looking light fixtures in my house! My Dad coined that one...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on July 24, 2014, 08:23:32 PM
I scored big on lighting goodies today! Eight fixtures! First is a Lithonia shoplight with an Osram-Sylvania LPF rapid start ballast which warns against the use of 34 watt lamps.  Oddly it only lights one lamp, but like it's wired in shunted mode! Ideas anyone?
Next is a pair of Sears shoplights like the one I already had.  One has a US Fluorescent LPF ballast I'm currently doing a mercury-migration test with (We'll see how it goes; I'm leaving it on overnight), and the other has a MagneTek LPF ballast. 
Then there is a Lithonia wraparound sans diffuser with a little Advance LPF (.47a line current with F40s!) ballast.  I put it up on the garage ceiling but have not wired it to power at the other end yet.
Then there was a Lithonia 2XF20T12 trigger-start striplight with a Universal Therm-O-Matic ballast, as well as the single-lamp version of said fixture and ballast.  Also a single-lamp Lampi undercabinet light and a Lampi 2-lamp fixture, both of the latter being preheat. 
Lamps: a pair of old-etch GE F20T12/CW (One is EOL though), a post-Mainlighter but still old-etch GE F40CW, a Sylvania F40/DSGN50, a True-Value F40SP41, as well as the Westpointe and Ace versions of same (All GE-made of course).
So yeah, my house is currently full of lighting goodies awaiting placement!
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on July 25, 2014, 11:38:25 AM
Yeah they don't blind you which is good I guess. :) Yeah future halogens that I buy will strictly be Sylvanias.

Ah yeah i saw all your goodies. Nice additions! 8)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on July 25, 2014, 01:34:39 PM
Thanks! The garage was a mess for awhile yesterday while I was trying new ballasts and lamps!
I have yet to post the single lamp F20 ballast, as well as the Lampi preheat stuff, which I might just gut for parts to convert the trigger start fixtures to preheat when their ballasts quit someday. 
I found out on LG the F20T12 GE dates to June 1985 and the F40CW GE dates to 1986...just barely post-Mainlighter!
The ballast that lights only one lamp trips it thermal cutout too since it's basically shunting itself for one lamp which is worse than 2 34w actually! I will remove the reflector so the ballast is operating in free air and see how it fares that way...it's being used as an indirect fixture lighting the ceiling.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on July 25, 2014, 03:36:48 PM
Ah I guess I was right to guess that the F20 GE was from the 80s. It was just a blind guess though lol. I'd personally junk any ballasts that trip the thermal protection or only light ome lamp but that's just me. :P lol
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on July 25, 2014, 08:32:13 PM
I save anything that's not totally dead...I'm going to try taking off the reflector so it's operating in free air and see how it does.  I also have a Universal therm-o-matic that lit one lamp very dimly wired normally, just as if the other one was burned out or missing, so I wired it for single lamp operation (both reds to one end, both blues to the other and cap off the yellows with wirenuts).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on July 26, 2014, 09:09:23 PM
I'm going to install the two new (to me) Sears shoplights in my storage loft and the Lithonia 1XF20T12 strip in the stairwell going up there.  I'm considering putting the 2XF20T12 one above my wood-burning stove replacing a clip light with a spiral compact fluorescent that's been there for the last few years. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on July 26, 2014, 10:45:07 PM
Sounds good! Once I get another F40 shoplight I'll install it in the garage, but not before fusing it! I will *eventually* get to fusing me current fixtures in service and all my fluorescents in general so I don't worry about fusing them later when I want to put them into service.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on July 27, 2014, 12:34:34 AM
Just stick that Power Products fixture up there! You could even use 34 watt lamps on that ballast if you wanted...Or that one from Restore with the Universal Therm-O-Matic ballast...
Actually I think I will put a LOA F15T8 undercabinet light I got less than an hour ago above the wood stove...not sure what will become of the 2X20 strip but maybe my bedroom ceiling?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on July 27, 2014, 01:36:03 PM
So far not much luck on the mercury migration...I think I'll pull the plug on it and try the MagneTek ballast today and see what happens...then I want to try both of the F20s and see if they will migrate.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on July 27, 2014, 02:21:27 PM
The  power products shoplight is F32T8/IS now and it doesn't have a chain assembly. IIRC, it must be hardmounted, which isn't gonna happen. :P Plus that fixture is for my late-grandpa' T17 replacement. The one from the ReStore with the 1977 Therm-O-Matic ballast is in the shed and all taped up (to keep out the bugs) so I don't want to install it at this time. We don't need a light there right now since the turret casts some light over there and the 90W incandescent throws light accross the whole garage (though it's not as bright as a fluorescent is lol)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on July 27, 2014, 06:24:29 PM
Well, Here's my post about what i have on my plate as far as lighting upgrades within the family:

My cousin's grandma's garage and basement:
3X F40T12/PH shoplites in the garage with modern lamps
3X F40T12/PH shoplites in the basement with vintage lamps, all 6 fixtures identical
3X F32T8 shoplites stacked in the garage to replace the garage preheaters and 8 NOS Philips F32/741 lamps from 2005
What I need: three shoplites with pull chains; four F32T8 4100K lamps

My great-aunt's house:
1X F90T17 preheater
1X F20T12/RS Western Electric reflector fixture, hardwired with KEN-RAD F20/W lamps
1X F20T12/RS Western Electric reflector fixture, with pullchain retrofitted on to one of the endcaps with KEN-RAD F20/W lamps
1X F40T12/RS single lamp NPF strip light with GE F40/CW mainlighter
1X F40T12/RS two-lamp strip light with a GE 35W T12 and a Sylvania Gro-Lux
1X F40T12 two lamp 8ft preheater with no lamps and FS-40/400 manual reset starters. Electrical condition unknown
What i need: 2X two-lamp F17T8 or two-lamp F32T8 fixtures to replace the F20 Western Electric fixtures with 3500K lamps; possibly a fixture to replace the 8ft F40T12 wall mount preheater. If so, probably two single lamp F32 strips from the restore mounted end-to-end...
What I have: single and double lamp T8 ballasts for the strip lights with 3500K lamps; incandescent pull-chain with outlet to replace the F90T17 and it's remotely mounted pull-chain switch

My dad's parents' house (my late grandpa's fixtures):
4X F40T12/RS Wetern Electric fixture (three in use, one leaning against the wall in the basment not hooked up)
1X F90T17 preheat louvered fixture, just like the one at my great-aunt's house
1X NOS 1980s LOA shoplite with Philips F40/CW lamps in the opened box (no replacement needed, as it's not in service)
1X F20T12 three-lamp preheater (this light isn't on my radar for replacement)
What i need: Three two-lamp F32T8 hard-mount fixtures (can be strip lights but preferably wrap lights since they look better IMO. I will also need six F32T8 lamps of any color temperature. Probably end up using 3500K to match the T17's replacement.
what i have: Power Products fixture with a 2X F32T8 ballast and 3500K lamps to replace the T17 fixture.

My grandpa's autobody shop:
1x F40T12 preheater in the bathroom
3X F40T12/RS four-lamp 2X4 lensed troffers
1X F40T12/RS NPF strip light
2X F96T12/HO industrial fixtures
several F96T12 slimline fixtures
What I have: (1) 2X F32T8 shoplite to replace the bathroom preheater. With 3500K F32T8s. Other fixtures will be upgraded by the request and expense of my grandpa. I'm not a magician that can pop new retrofit supplies out of thin air lol... So I have everything I need to replace my grandpa's preheater. Just gotta get down there somehow.

So Recap of What I Need to Get for Each House:
- Three shoplites with pullchains (just the cheap plug-in kind, i can cut the cords off lol) with four F32T8/CW lamps (to match the T8s that are in storage in the garage)
- Two fixtures, one with a pull-chain, to replace the F20/RS Western Electric fixtures, complete with 3500K lamps; something to replace the 8ft F40T12 fixture (again, probably two single lamp strips I can convert to T8) and I'll need 3500K lamps for that too.
- Three F32T8 hardmount fixtures (preferably wraps, either traditional or, yes, basket wraps. :P ) complete with lamps, again, probably 3500K

That's all I need. Not actually a whole lot, though unless I can get these items at the ReStore, it could turn out expensive. And hopefully the stuff at the ReStore is in decent condition and only lightly used so I don't have to repaint them. The white paint turns yucky rather easy if the application it's mounted in isn't ideal.

Now which fixtures will I be tackling first? Hard to say. Probably the two T17s and the preheater at my grandpa's shop since I have everything I need to complete those jobs. I will also be retrofitting my great-aunt's strips to T8. After that, maybe my cousin's grandma's garage and basement. I'd like to do them together since i don't go there too often and she's technically not my family so I don't want to pester her any more than necessary. And my great-aunt's F20/RS fixtures will be after that, unless I find fixtures to replace them sooner. I'll end up replacing my aunt, grandma, and late-grandpa's F40 Western Electric garage lights last since i see them every Friday and I don't have to worry about any potential roadblocks popping up before i can get to them.

However, that's seventeen lights, then add the four fixtures I'll be getting from my aunt and uncle and that's 21 fixtures, I'm thinking I won't be able to squeeze nearly TWO DOZEN fixtures in my shed. I'm gonna have to work something out. Maybe a family member would let me stash some of the fixtures somewhere? I'd hate to flat-out ask if i can use their space as a storage facility though. But if anyone offers I won't refuse!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on July 27, 2014, 10:50:32 PM
A big project! When I move out of this house I'm leaving all the LPF-ballasted fixtures but might take the one Sears shoplight with the GE Bonusline ballast, the two Metalux/Gibson troffers from my (by then) old middle/high school, the Lithonia 2XF96T12 striplight, and the Lithonia 2XF20T12 strip.  And of course all my random lamps and ballasts.  I'll also likely take the Electripak 175w MV yardblaster.  But I'm ending up with this house (It's left to me in the will) so I'll get all the stuff back someday anyway...but I'm taking the most vintage/valuable with me just in case...although it will likely end up BACK at this house someday...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on July 28, 2014, 11:30:08 AM
I wish i could get rid of the "Professionnal lighting engineer" thing out from below the five light bulbs. Makes me sound snobby and Jace spelled "Professional" wrong so it makes me look stupid too lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on July 29, 2014, 10:20:17 PM
I wish i could get rid of the "Professionnal lighting engineer" thing out from below the five light bulbs. Makes me sound snobby and Jace spelled "Professional" wrong so it makes me look stupid too lol.

I might be able to pull some strings tehehe, I fixed the spelling though lol

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on July 30, 2014, 12:01:27 PM
lol thanks.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on July 30, 2014, 08:34:45 PM
I visited a secondhand store today in Sitka, AK with some other people and didn't buy anything but passed up a NOS modern Sylvania F30T12/CW, some 400w coated MH lamps, some Sylvania "Bug-foiler" lamps in the green box with the rainbow edging, a NOS LOA Quad-Lite, and a Philips Daylight Deluxe FC8T9.  They also had a couple vintage radios but no vintage stereo tuners (That I saw anyway; the place is called the "Junk Trunk" and you have to shuffle between the mountains of stuff.  Also there's a party store in the middle of it...
BTW ever notice secondhand stores (ReStore, GoodWill, etc) always have the classic rock radio stations playing in them? This one did too!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on July 30, 2014, 09:23:50 PM
Hmm the Restores I've been to don't typically play music.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 05, 2014, 10:26:38 AM
Almost every secondhand store I've ever been in has had good music playing...
I might add the aforementioned one didn't have any scary wiring, being in a modern building..
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 05, 2014, 02:07:41 PM
whew! been busy with all my new toys. :D The M-250R and M-400 are all cleaned up and working. The TuDor's wiring is all good but It needs a number of new things. New terminal block, new slipfitter bolts, new screws (old ones are rusted in place and must be drilled out) and it could use a new PC socket too.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 05, 2014, 07:32:54 PM
I know the feeling, when you get a bunch of goodies at once and have to mess with them all at once...
Today I was in a CarQuest auto parts store that's entirely lit by 8' slimlines, a rarity nowadays! Lamps were all True Value (GE) 60w cool white with lots of end banding but none out.  Also saw some older-looking turret F40s in a welding/diesel mechanic's shop (DIM with CWX lamps and being covered in smoke/grease).  Also saw a 4-lamp F40 Sunbeam Visionaire wraparound in someone's garage, though it was missing parts and only the outer lamps were installed/lit.  (They also run a marine navigation electronics shop out of that garage I might add; they're my preferred boat electrician).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 06, 2014, 12:05:23 AM
I installed those GE 72w halogens in place of 13w spiral 2700K CFLs and they're really bright! We'll see how long they last...they're reminiscent of those GE "Basic" and Ace branded fake-frost bulbs from the 90s and 2000s...
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on August 06, 2014, 09:29:02 AM
Interesting how they used True Value lamps, a store brand lamp, in their own store. Seems like store brand lamps are more of a residential thing...

Aw No you bought GE halogens? :P The ones in my basement have dimmed badly. I replaced one with a 60W incandescent and the incandescent was brighter (and the halogens are 75W rated replacement, using 53W) I plan to replace them all with Sylvania halogens since apparently GE halogens suck...

BTW, I'm going to my grandpa's shop this weekend! ;D He's helping me fix up my OV-15 TuDor light that has corrosion issues and a few other things too. I plan to bring the F32T8 fixture to see if I can replace the bathroom preheater. And I'll take pics of all the lights!

Also, this Thursday I'm going to my great-aunt's house to change her outlets to three-prong grounded outlets. I'm also going to see if she'll let me convert the garage strips to T8 and try to troubleshoot the 8ft preheater. But changing the outlets will take all day on its own.

First I need to figure out how many circuits there are and what outlets are on which circuit (basically by shutting OFF one breaker at a time and seeing which outlets loose power).

Second, I need to remove all the outlets and stretch out the wires and then, one circuit at a time, test each outlet for voltage (with the breaker ON). Because the wires are all separated and "broken apart", the voltage should be zero at each one except for one wire, which is the wires that comes right from the breaker. That makes the outlet in that box the lead outlet and it needs to be replaced by a GFCI. The rest of the outlets will be replaced with regular 15A duplex receptacles. Once all the circuits and lead outlets are established, the rest is easy. Just install the outlets! ;D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 09, 2014, 07:24:22 PM
Well, i went to my grandpa's autobody shop today. ;D

I replaced the preheater!!! ;D :D Now there is an F32T8/IS two-lamp shoplite in there. As it turns out, there used to be an incandescent lamp in there way back when, as there was an ancient keyless ceramic socket on the ceiling with one of those socket-to-outlet adpaters. The fixture simply plugged in with one of those wire-in plugs. Since I didn't bring a plug with me I reused the old one, which meant the fixture isn't grounded. The preheater was suspended and when I installed the T8 I installed it higher up so the room appears brighter than before.

A also took pics of the lights at his shop! And I replaced all the dead tubes at his shop, three F40s and seven F96T12 slimlines.

Turns out the preheater is a Harmony House shoplight. If I'm not mistaken, Harmony House was a Sears name? If so, then I have the preheat predecessor to your RS Sears shoplite. :D It's gray on the outside and white on the inside of the reflector, like most vintage fluorescents. I had to put on a breathing mask when I got a rag to wipe off the 1/2" of dust/dirt (not even exagerating with half an inch either!). A ton of dirt that's built up since the light was installed. I don't know its age, but it has a Jefferson ballast with no label, instead the info is engraved into the ballast casing.

I took home two NOS Philips F40T12/Colortone 50 lamps too. One of the lamps in it was EOL and the other one was a GE residential light so I stuck a couple new Philips lamps in the fixture instead. So I finally got that preheater! And you know that single lamp wall fixture from 1940 that I removed? I took that too since I had left the fixture shell before.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 11, 2014, 10:10:50 PM
NICE!!!  Is the Harmony House preheater going in the garage replacing the one that burned up?
Yeah I have four of those Sears RS shoplights, (Which are the younger brother of your light).  One has a tar-leaked but working GE Bonusline ballast, one had a Universal Therm-O-Matic I installed in the 3-lamp troffer since it only lit one lamp, (So it's currently ballastless) and the other two have LPF residential ballasts that are NOT original and will someday be replaced with HPF ballasts or electronic T8 ballasts. 
One of those GE halogens quit after less than 24 hours, though it was a broken filament.  The other three still work though.
You have got to get yourself a slimline too! That will open you up to 8' lamps too. 
Take pics of the Philips C50 lamps and the restoration!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 11, 2014, 10:50:20 PM
Yeah I'll probably end up sticking it in the garage... Mine is very overbuilt, not sure about yours? I really like the design with the far-spaced lamps and all. Three sockets are the original black ones and one white replacement. Ironically the white one is cracked and needs to be replaced. I don't have one to match the black ones so it'll get one of the sockets I saved from the preheater that died, which are white, but I might paint all the sockets black to make them look nicer lol. Never painted sockets before though... I painted the reflector and socket brackets today. Will paint the endcaps and top housing tomorrow or the next day. Then I need to replace some wires and get some liquid electrical tape. I probably will get the tape after vacation. In the mean time, the fixture will get mounted in the garage sans-cord just to get it out of the way...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 14, 2014, 05:47:40 PM
Cool that it's going up! Will the Philips non-Alto F40C50 lamps be used in it there?
I cleaned up the reflectors for the two new (to me) Sears shoplights with paper towels and Windex and reassembled them and stuck them above the same unfinished walls supposed to be a closet next to the one with the GE Bonusline ballast.  6XF40 above the space where the vast majority of my lamps/fixtures/ballasts are stored! I'm going to hardmount them to the ceiling in that storage loft room though eventually. 
The MagneTek ballast isn't bad for a LPF one, but that US fluorescent is pretty dim compared to the MagneTek and HPF .80a GE Bonusline.  Lamps are an Ace (GE) SP41 and 90s Sylvania F40/CW in the Bonusline-ballasted one, an identical Ace lamp and GE 34W cool white Watt-Miser in the MagneTek-ballasted one, and another Watt-Miser and the 1986 just-post-mainlighter GE F40CW in the last one with the US fluorescent LPF ballast.  They were just the first random lamps I grabbed for the latter two fixtures :)
I used some roofing screws (the ones used on corrugated metal roofing) to hold the reflectors but need to bring the cordless screw gun home to screw them in all the way. 
I have a third Sears shoplight reflector for the last one at the friend's woodshop which also has one of those US Fluorescent ballasts which I will acquire someday.  (It's running reflectorless since when first trying 34w lamps on those LPF ballasts I thought it might run hotter so I wanted it to have better ventilation. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 14, 2014, 09:49:45 PM
No, I plan to run the lamps that were in the longjohn preheater before it died, the GE F40 4100K DoIt lamps. If the orignal starters work I'll keep them in...

You need some nice HPF ballasts for all yor fixtures. :P ;D Glad to hear you still have a good amount of light though! Any particular reason you want to hardmount them? I prefer to suspend them via chains and have them plug in since if I need to open the fixture for whatever reason, I can just unplug it, unchain it, and open it on the ground. Much easier than trying to open it while mounted. Plus with my longjohn preheater, it would have REALLY sucked if I had to open that up mounted after that mess. It was nice to be able to just remove the lamps and starters and cut the cord off from the outside and just take it to the curb lol. Though of course I opened it to get pics and to see what happened inside there. Man I can still smell the putrid odor... :(
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 15, 2014, 12:34:11 PM
Keeping the C50s NOS for now?
Yeah I do! Or at least electronic T12 or T8 high ballast factor ones.  I intend to hardmount because the latter two lack suspension hardware though the Bonusline-ballasted one will stay suspended I think though I might hardwire it to a junction box since the cord is spliced anyway...
Ideally I'd find some nice NOS HPF ballasts like GE Bonuslines, Universal therm-o-matics or Advance Kool-Koils and replace all three...though I don't want to touch that tar/PCB mess of the leaked but working Bonusline until it totally cooks, though it might be like your longjohn preheat fixture LOL...althogh that one used to run long hours (though not overnight; more like 2-4-6-even 8 at a stretch). 
I actually like that "basket wrap" fixture, sans it's tacky diffuser.  I might convert that to HPF or T8 or something when it's ballast cooks or I get sick of it...I do not have any spare rapid start ballasts to replace junky but working ones with though.
Although yeah it's nice to just pull the lamps, unplug it and take it to the dump if something PCB happens LOL...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 15, 2014, 02:44:47 PM
Yeah even though the Philips CT50 lamps are eco and dim I want to keep them NOS lol. Not all my lights have suspension hardware but Lowe's sells Cooper Metalux suspension kits with two V brackets and two 36" chains. That's how I "convert" my fixtures, though with the 2X4 troffer I just tied some 12-gauge wire to each end. Seems to work great. As long as my knots don't fail me, it will stay up. Even though I'm a Boy Scout I'm terrible with knots lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 15, 2014, 04:21:53 PM
I'm horrible with knots.  With those two 1X4 surface-mount troffer lights from my school I used old #18AWG ballast wires to mount them, just knotting it by twisting it around in a spiral over and over and over again...I can take a pic next time I'm at that house if you guys want...I might suspend the Sears lights but they were hardmounted in their previous location  anyway so they have holes, etc...
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on August 15, 2014, 05:39:05 PM
Ahh with the 12AWG wire it's stranded so it won't hold its shape if you twist it. You have to tie it.

I'm going to chain the Harmony House shoplight up tonight in the garage but there won't be a cord attached to it. I won't be wiring it up to a cord until after I get a fuse for it. I'll just mount it in the garage so I can get pics of it now that it's all repainted and everything. Ironically, I had to replace one of the sockets, which was already a replacement. The original sockets were all "Sylvania Electrical Products" sockets that were black and the replacement one was a white leviton, probably installed in the 60s before my grandpa bought the shop. Anyway, I happened to have a replacement that fits nicely.

I put liquid electrical tape (it's like black goopy paint that dries fast like white-out) on the frayed wires where they enter the ballast case but I didn't dare touch the fixture just in case the fixture still has a ground fault. I don't know if the current from a fluorescent ballast is any more dangerous than line voltage so don't really want to risk touching it. :(

Anyway, I tested it and both starters do work. One instant starts and the other takes like a minute, but it's not the starter's fault. I switched the starters and lamps and the same side started slow. I think since one starter is connected to the ballast (it's a stroboscoptic-corrected ballast, even though it doesn't say so) it's just slow to start...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 19, 2014, 10:06:35 AM
Yeah I wanna say the Advance Ad-Lite preheat ballasts do that too but I don't know for sure as I don't own any 4' preheat fixtures yet
Someday I want a 2, 3, or 4-lamp preheat shoplight...not really into halfpipers though if I found one I'd give it a good home and/or sell or trade to another collector. 

BTW I'm seeing lots of the True Value (GE) post-2012 F40T12 and F96T12 lamps popping up around here...the 60w F96s are much nicer than the old CW 60w energy saver slimlines we've been stuck with since EPACT...
Take pics of it! (And maybe a startup vid!)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 19, 2014, 06:43:05 PM
The preheater I have for Joe has a AdLite ballast and it wires up like two individual chokes with both starters independant of the ballast and the lamps both start quickly.

Yeah I'm not a huge halfpiper fan either...

I like the color and brightness from the new/current Philips Alto F96T12/CWS 75W lamps. They seem to be pretty good lamps.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 20, 2014, 12:57:58 PM
I'm going to try an FS-4 starter for the attempted 4' preheat thing I did awhile back.  I had one 34w GE Watt-Miser in particular that works with the FS-2 I've used but other lamps just blink...the starter tries to start an already-lit lamp.  That setup (using a multitap 400w MH ballast as a step-up transformer, and ballasting the lamp with two 100w incandescents in series) is extremely inefficient so I'm going to try an F40 rapid start ballast but with starters inline with the cathode heating...which would be cool since I'd like to be able to use 34 watt lamps too.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 20, 2014, 10:09:59 PM
Sounds cool. And yeah a good way to use up some 34W lamps lol.

I'm up in Canada this week (as you may have figured out lol) so Joe and I met up and exchanged lighting stuff. :D Much better than spending over 100 bucks shipping it and risking damaging the stuff. Plus we got to meet each other too which is cool. I always like to meet collectors in person. Joe is the third lighting enthusiast I've met up with (besides Marco) and I hope to meet up with more too. :D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 21, 2014, 09:43:27 PM
Yeah that's cool!
Well guess what Mike? THREE of those 72w GE halogen lamps have died! (all the same death too).  The other supermarket I thought might sell the Sylvania version doesn't have them but has 5000K TCP spiral CFLs I might buy instead.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 21, 2014, 10:29:14 PM
Ah see? Told you those GE halogens are crap. :P All the GEs i have in use run horizontally though and halogens don't do good running horizontal (since the filament sags into the quartz tube wall) whereas the Sylvanias run vertically. Do yours run vertically or horizontally and what fate did they suffer?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 21, 2014, 11:15:46 PM
One ran horizontal for sure and the others may have been at an angle...they were/the last one is in those clip work lights...the filament always broke midway up itself and half of it rolls around in the capsule. 
I also find the "dispose of lamp in a closed container" weird...do you? Mine all went in the trash can by themselves just like an incandescent would have.
(http://file:///Users/andylange/Desktop/2186896_orig.jpg)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 22, 2014, 07:27:29 PM
Ahh interesting. Never seen Dispose of lamp in a closed container. The Sylvania ones don't say that. Not sure what difference it makes since when they activate the compactor on the garbage truck the enclosed container will get smashed, exposing the lamp to the environment. Perhaps they meant a broken lamp? You can't touch a quartz arctube/halogen capsule with bare hands because our skin oils degrade quartz and will break it down.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 25, 2014, 11:53:38 PM
Well I've visited with a couple fellow (not on this site though) fluorescent light people in the past few days.  Both have given me many lamps and fixtures. 
One was over at my house today, the same person who gave me the Sears RS shoplights and the Sylvania Design 50s.  The one I visited gave me the Sylvania Daylight Full Spectrum and turned me onto the dozens of GE Mainlighters in the trash a few years ago.  Both did/do maintenance at my totally-T12 school too. 
Also I'm doing research on my boat...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 26, 2014, 01:44:05 PM
First day of Junior year for me today.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 27, 2014, 09:57:57 AM
Today will be my third...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 27, 2014, 05:51:16 PM
ah so you went back a day before me on Monday?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 27, 2014, 08:21:58 PM
Yep...but we have a 4 day weekend thanks to Labor Day! (We already have Fridays off in my school district but that means longer days)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 27, 2014, 08:33:23 PM
Ah I have a three-day weekend.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 27, 2014, 11:11:58 PM
I was reading yet another thing on LG about supposedly how HPF ballasts out of use for years/decades tend to go "BOOM".  I wonder if that's what happened to that long-john preheat fixture you had...sure it got used since you had it but for short periods right? Who knows how long it was not used in that basement...it had bad lamps and/or starters right?
As far as I know the longest out of use ballasts I have are that Advance slimline...lamps were dated 1996 and it was found in a vacant house, filthy, and knowing what went on at that place it could easily have had somewhere between 13-18 years of non-use! (There was a calendar in there dated January 2001 and it was covered in dirt and dust on a mouse-shredded mattress).  I was a little "Uhhh" about powering it up for the first time and it had/still has a broken plunger side socket but when I got that thing lit up finally it was the most awesome thing LOL...
In another case, I had a 400w CWA MH ballast and lamp that had not been plugged in AT LEAST 10 years.  It made a "cracking" or "Arcing" or "Sizzling" sound at first...I have a video of it somewhere.  I guess that cap had to "charge up"...that ballast takes awhile to start certain lamps, buzzing at first then "crackling" for a second when it lights...cap discharging? IDK...any ideas?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 28, 2014, 03:28:56 PM
 I've had lights (street lights) that are NOS and have never been used for like 40 years and they work fine. It is possible that very used capacitors that all of a sudden sit unused for years are a little stubborn. I think they just need to be broken in though. The capacitor with the ballast that I put in my M-250R I think is loosing its capacitance, as the lamp takes forever to warm up fully, a tell-tale sign of a weak capacitor. I will replace it when I get the cash but right now I need money for everything and have no money for anything. I need a capacitor, fuses, a cast box and lamp for my mini-high bay, and other things too. All I have is five bucks lol.

I have no idea. HID is rather unprecticable, kinda like a domesticated wild animal, like a pet chimp. It behaves most of the time but you never know what will set it off. MH more so than anything else. I won't light up MH lamps indoors for more than a few minutes. I'll piss myself worrying about the lamp exploding (not literally of course lol). I will only light MH outdoors. That way if a lamp explodes, there's no fire risk and I don't need to worry about glass shards or mercury contamination (well I sorta do but eventually that crap will seep into the ground and disapate. Fortunately we don't have well water or that could potentially be a hazard. I personally don't like well water. I think it tastes gross, though everyone that has well water says it tastes so crisp and clean. I think it taste like $h!t lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 28, 2014, 08:10:48 PM
I'm going to test that 1000w HPS grow light that came with my house someday but outside on a long extension cord so it can be plugged in from far away LOL. 
I usually am told to not drink the tap water at people's houses without municipal water but in one case where it's directed from the rain gutter into a tank it tastes fine IMO...
Speaking of that my municipality is on a boil-water notice as of this afternoon...apparently our water tested positive for E-coli bacteria...oh no! I already drank a glass of it! I hope it hasn't reached my house but I doubt it LOL.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 28, 2014, 09:41:22 PM
Eww E-Coli? :( Yuck!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 28, 2014, 10:28:31 PM
Yup! When I hear E-coli I think Taco Shmell LOL...
Been meaning I bought some 6500K 13w CFLs to replace those epic-failure GE halogen lamps...
I'm also considering mounting my Sears shoplights in my storage loft tomorrow...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 29, 2014, 12:24:26 PM
So last night I had the "brilliant" idea that a rapid start ballast could be made into a preheat one by wiring a starter inline with the cathode heating.  The test "victims" were a (90s?) "US FLuorescent" .75a LPF rapid start ballast in one of those Sears shoplights and a pair of GE F40CW/RS/WM. 
First I tried with one of the blue wires.  It didn't work; the cathodes were lit dimly...even with the starter REMOVED??? Maybe I did the wrong side.  Then I tried on the red-wire side...still no luck.
Now, anyone else familiar with the F34T12 "sparking" discharge at the ends trying to start? It's REALLY impressive on a lamp missing some phosphor (I scraped some of it off with a piece of glass laying inside the lamp).
I also admittedly used an FS-2 starter; but shouldn't that at least give endless blinkage? I'll play with it more today.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 29, 2014, 02:38:29 PM
I believe you should only connect the lamp between one red and blue and run the starter independantly like a preheater. I wouldn't recommend it. I would use proper gear but if you want to do it as a temporary thing I could probably work. You'll need FS-4 starters though.

Yeah with an FS-2 starter in an FS-4 application, the lamp should flash and strobe as if it were EOL. If you take the starter out at the right time, you can sucessfully start an FS-4 lamp with an FS-2 starter, I've done it. Of course the onyl way to do that is remove the starter after you power up the light and you'd have to put the starter back in after you turn it off. An FS-4 starter will do nothing in an FS-2 application since the FS-4 starter requires more voltage to work I think.

Thanks for indirectly reminding me that I need to test to OVC of my 1973 universal ballast...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 29, 2014, 03:26:55 PM
Yeah I've just been wanting to implement a 4' preheat setup for years now and preferably one that would work with 34 watt lamps which normal tulamp preheat fixtures will not.  (Well, they do but you get a by-product of tar and PCBs).
I thought about trying it with one of my vintage full power HPF ballasts but I don't dare since I don't want to damage vintage ballasts that aren't made anymore and are now collectors' items LOL.  (Which is why I have them). 

I have lots of electrical home wiring and other DIY home improvement reference books, and they're all dated.  That's really cool since the basic information is the same but the tools and products have changed.  I had a couple I bought at a rumage sale once, and when my mom passed away my godparents (the ones with the M-400A) grabbed a bunch of the reference books right along with the photo albums and important papers long before I got there knowing I'd want them; I was fascinated with them as a child.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 29, 2014, 04:52:37 PM
Ah I see. I'd send you a preheater for the cost of shipping but even just shipping would cost you a lot and boxing it up would be a PITA for me lol.

Ah nice of your godparents to grab all that stuff and that they had known you had wanted it. I'm dying to see pics of the M-400A. Do you remember anything about it? Was the ballast on the door or the top housing? Was there a NEMA tag on the outside? A lamp inside? a PC socket? I'm curious now. ;D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 29, 2014, 05:21:54 PM
The ballast was inside (so not a Powr/Door I don't think).  It had a faded silver "25" tag.  No lamp or PC but sockets for both and a circuit-board-looking thing inside so presumably HPS.  We couldn't even figure out how to wire it to power LOL or what voltage it was...there were two "transformer" looking thingys and a capacitor. 
Yeah it would almost require a plywood crate LOL.
I tried between a yellow and a blue and no success...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 29, 2014, 08:28:55 PM
red and blue, not yellow. I think yellow only serves to heat the cathodes. If you run a lamp between one red and one blue with a starter connected and then run another lamp with one red and one blue it might work (with each one getting it's own starter). For prehet you should omit the yellow leads.

LOL Well of course the ballast is inside but is it mounted to the inside of the door or the top housing? If it's mounted to the top housing then it's an M-400 (split door version). Since it's got a NEMA tag it's a late 70s-early-to-mid 80s GE. The metallic tag was once gold. It's defiently HPS.

There were two "transformer" things? ??? You mean ballasts? Like two coils on the ballast? All the wireing connections you need to make would be on the black terminal block inside. First you need to figure out the voltage. There's a paper label inside titled GENERAL (GE) ELECTRIC with LUMINAIRE as a subtitle but they corrode after a few years so it might not be readable. If it's 120V it should be fairly easy to wire up since the white wires will all be at one terminal block (where you connect the neutral) and then the terminal for the hot is the terminal with one and only one black wire (for the PC socket). A PC must be locked in for the light to get power though.

If you can get pics (maybe phone your godparents and ask them to take pics and email them to you?) I can help more. If it's 240V there are a couple options. Either the PC socket is wired for 240V too in which case there are two hot connections or it's 240V with a 120V PC so there are two hots and a neutral (neutral being only to control the PC socket).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 29, 2014, 11:38:56 PM
Whoops! I thought you mean like doing the single-lamp shunting trick in which case the OCV would probably be so high it would instant-start before the starter could kick in at all.  Now I see.  I'll have to try it again tomorrow. 
IIRC it was mounted inside...or was it on the door? In fact I don't remember.  I was almost 99 percent sure it was HPS too since the circuit board had to be an ignitor. 
Yeah I meant ballasts of course but I'm just so ignorant with them that's about all they looked like LOL (I know everything about fluorescents but almost nothing about HID and especially HID streetlights.  Perhaps it was a multi-wattage ballast like 150w/250w or 250w/400w? I've heard of ballasts like that before and having two coils makes sense in that case.  Or maybe then it's multitap 3-phase or something...I'd have to study it in person again or ask for pics. 
The label was totally unreadable, hence my godfather and I scratching our heads trying to figure out how to get it going one day. 
I knew that about the PC and we considered borrowing the windowless (so dayburner most likely) one off the 80s Regent SuperLite with the /DX Westy Lifeguard.  (I hope to get that light someday). 
I have a couple pics of the outside since I know you'd asked for them last time I went down there in January but I did not open it up then.  (It was a PITA to open too, laying upside down on the ground as opposed to having the door facing down which helps LOL.  IDK, any ideas what CalTrans used for their supply (i.e 3 phase 277v). 
I'm not that much of a streetlight guy (I'd want something smaller like a little 100w MV cobrahead) so maybe someday if I get it and we meet in person (At one point earlier this year it looked like I might move to CT but that's not happening now) I'd happily give it to you in trade for a F40 preheat fixture or something LOL. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 30, 2014, 10:18:25 AM
Ah yeah let me know how it works out with the preheater. Yeah I'm pretty sure you'd run each lamp between one red and one blue with the starters wires to each lamp independantly. If I understand Trent, that's whay he meant but I don't know much in the ways of electrical with ballasts and stuff.

I saw the pics. The ballast is definetly on the door. And yep, 250W HPS. So were there two separate ballasts? Or did you just mean multiple coils? There are multi-wattage ballasts out there (100/175W MV, 100/150W HPS, 250/400W HPS) but they don't require additional coils.

The number of coils depends on the ballast type and the line voltage coming into the ballast. A single tap 240V 250W HPS ballast would be a 240V choke since the voltage doesn't need to be corrected. Just like with a F20T12 choke. On the other hand, a 120V single tap 250W HPS ballast would be two coils since the voltage needs to be stepped up. This is a primary and secondary coil ballast just like an F40 ballast, because on 120V, the voltage needs to be raised. Just like how on 240V, F40s can use chokes. Making some sense now? The only difference is that the ballast is bigger and not potted inside a case.

Was there a capacitor? (Silver case with two wires coming out of it?) If there's no capacitor than that means it's not a CWA. If you can get pics of the inside I can probably help a little more...

Yeah totally! I can trade you a fluorescent for the M-400A. I'm more of a small cobrahead person too but I love the 70s and 80s HPS stuff. Well, if it's 120V that is...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 30, 2014, 10:49:01 AM
Yeah I'll try that when I get a chance and post the results.  I did make a little 10sec-ish video of what it did between blue/yellow. 
Multiple coils.  So it's entirely possible it's 120v period or multitap with a 120v option?
I'm almost certain there was a capacitor (Which might have PCBs and tend to go BANG when powered up for the first time in decades). 
Another way to make 208/240/277v stuff work on 120v is to take a multitap ballast, wire it to 120v like normal, and you'll get that higher voltage off it's tap.  I did this with a 277v Advance T8 ballast once using a 400w MH ballast that was multitap.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 30, 2014, 11:30:24 AM
Well it depends on how many coild it has, but yeah if it's got more than one coil it's most likely either a 120V ballast or at least a multi-tap ballast but there is a chance that it's just the type of ballast. The best person to ask if its a Caltrans light is Dave D. (SilverlinerOV-14B) since he lives in California.

As for the capacitor, I wouldn't worry about it. However, if the capacitor isn't rusty, you'll be able to read an engraving on the capacitor. GE always marked the capacitor ratings and the date too. the date is marked either YY-WW or WW-YY (week and year) so something like 42-78 or 78-42 would mean 42nd week of 1978. If you want to play it safe you can always pop in a new capacitor but in all honesty I don't see that being necessary. If you do replace it I'd keep the old one since it's the original cap.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 30, 2014, 01:27:00 PM
I posted this on Lighting Gallery too so there's a very good chance Dave Silverliner will see this and be able to help us too.  (He's dated many of my fluorescent lamps too!) BTW there was a chance at one point he may have gotten a chance to go to the same ReStore location I've been to. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 30, 2014, 05:25:08 PM
BTW, that's the M-400A not the M-400A1. NiMo likes to add numbers where they don't belong. :8) lol

And the light defiently has a PC socket? As far as I know, Caltrans lights were all relay-controlled so they wouldn't have PC sockets. So if it has a PC socket it's probably not a Caltrans light, as Caltrans is the DOT.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 30, 2014, 08:38:42 PM
So that narrows it down to being used at a local intersection and not on a freeway entrance ramp or something.
Okay so I did the blue/red wire thing and I got it so (sorta) work! Only one lamp can light at a time though.  They'll both blink but one will "win" finally after much pinging but not a whole lot of blink-happieness.  If that lamp is loosened/removed then the other lights.  It only seems to work with 34 watt lamps with the FS-2 starters (FYI it seems if you have a NPF preheat single lamp ballast and are short on FS-4 starters and are using a 34 watt lamp an FS-2 will work I guess).  40 watt lamps just make the starter "ping" continuously though.  I plan to get some FS-4 starters and stick another LPF ballast in for the other lamp and get something HPF or electronic for whatever other residential shoplight that comes out of (I have several).  If I find some nice HPF RS ballasts then this will be even better! I must admit, this is sorta exciting! I would try this on my HPF full power ballasts but refuse to risk it in case something bad DOES indeed happen.  I need to run this homebrew setup for a longer period to see how the ballast does with one lamp, hence half the arc voltage.  It's rated for 34 watt lamps and likes them better than 40w lamps (It's that US Fluorescent ballast in one of the Sears shoplights which I thought would be a perfect preheat conversion) so it SHOULD do fine but we'll see. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 30, 2014, 10:25:54 PM
ah glad to hear it worked out well. :D Ah sounds like how my exit sign retrofit kit works. That would be good if you only need one lamp lit. so when one lamp goes EOL the other will light up.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 30, 2014, 11:24:08 PM
Would that actually work? I would think they would just be blinking like crazy then the starter would stick on one lamp...but maybe I'm wrong.  I'm going to make it 2-lamp though with FS-4 starters.
Right now it's plugged in behind me leaning up against the wall; I'm doing a heat test with an essentially-shunted ballast AND  a 34 watt lamp.  I took a little startup vid, though it's not that impressive. 
The lamp seems nice and bright, and the ballast seems happy so far.  When I get FS-4 starters and can theoretically run 40w lamps in this thing the ballast(s) should be even happier. 
You'll also see pics of the 34w GE Watt-Miser that has a loose piece of glass inside...I was working on making a clear fluorescent at one point but it's kinda partial...ignition on both preheat and rapid start, as well as dim-glowing on the primary side of a rapid start ballast, can be somewhat interesting to watch. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 31, 2014, 11:14:41 AM
well aren't you using one starter for each lamp, so each lamp has its own starter. With my my exit sign kit, it's one ballast wired for two PL lamps. The PL lamps have internal starters as you know. So they will flicker and "argue" back and forth for a while and then one "wins" and starts after a few seconds and then the other one just sits idle. When one lamp goes EOL there will be a lot more flicker but eventually one wins out. The idea was that with the exit sign, you're doubling the life of the lamp by using two lamps, since one takes over after the first fails.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 31, 2014, 02:11:46 PM
Yeah the redundancy must be nice in a situation like that.  I've also heard there's apparently a way to wire a single lamp rapid start ballast so when one lamp fails, is removed, is broken, etc. the other takes over, although the cathodes on the standby lamp might remain heated...that makes me wonder if it would blacken quickly and last about the same amount of time though?
Well it gets pretty dang hot after about 90 minutes, so we'll see.  When I can get FS-4 starters so 40w lamps will work it should run cooler...and I plan to convert the other Sears shoplight (With the MagneTek ballast) to electronic or HPF and use the MagneTek for the other lamp in this so it's a 2-lamper again.  I'm thinking of putting my PowerTwist lamps in there once it's all finished!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 31, 2014, 02:51:46 PM
Well it's really funny I should mention those PowerTwist lamps at all since the one I had in service up until a few minutes ago randomly lost vacuum!  :8) I went in that room and not only was the center lamp in that suspended 3-lamp troffer not lit, but it had phosphor blown off! I'm thinking it was a freak thing though since the filament is totally intact; we've all see the aftermath of EOL tortures and the whole cathode assembly is usually a burned, melted-down mess!
It's now running a Sylvania "Daylight Full Spectrum" (Design 50) lamp and we'll see...it's that Universal Therm-O-Matic I have shunted for one lamp since it's half-dead.  Thinking the ballast went with a bang somehow (I didn't witness it) I tried it with an Ace F40/UNIVERSAL DELUXE (F40SP41) just to be sure...lt lit fine so we'll see what happens now.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 31, 2014, 06:16:43 PM
Hmm yeah I've seen one of my grandpa's F40s have a couple inches of phosphors blown clean off with the filament i think intact (it was the end with the guard on a 1996 Philips-made 34w no-name CW). I think the seal just failed. With EOLs, the vacuum is lost because the heat of the electrode melts/cracks the glass. With this, you probably were a little rough handling the lamps and made a small crack you didn't notice, or a crack just appeared over time.

About that closet light I relamps, I think it was actually because of the humidity that it wouldn't start but I got a nice full mercury full wattage lamp out of the whole thing so... lol The old lamps still works fine but it's pretty black on one end.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 31, 2014, 09:15:49 PM
Back then both ends would've had guards FYI...
I put the reflector back on the Sears preheat conversion project and we'll see how the ballast does under a reflector with a 34 watt lamp...I got a 40w to start like I mentioned before by twisting it at just the right moment to disengage the starter and the ballast ran substantially cooler, so we'll see.
There's already a YT vid of the startup but I need to do another one with the reflector on. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 31, 2014, 09:37:50 PM
ah interesting. still pretty black with the guard! interested to hear how the preheat thing works out! :D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 31, 2014, 10:07:27 PM
It's installed now.  It's not extremely bright, that's for sure, but having both lamps going and using 40w lamps might help fix that.
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on September 01, 2014, 10:15:46 AM
Hmm interesting. I wonder if there are any unforeseen negative things that come along with doing this?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 01, 2014, 11:17:16 AM
That's what I'm trying to find out.  Where this is currently hung (my living room) the color of the CW ES lamp(s) is ugly so I might have to buy some SPX35 lamps or something to match the kitchen.  Or 6500K... ;D something besides halophosphate CW
If I find some extra HPF ballasts and have any left over after redoing other fixtures I might make this thing brighter by using them...in the meantime if I find another LPF residential ballast it will go in there for the other lamp or at the same time I buy starters I'll buy something else for the other Sears light and take the MangeTek ballast out of it and use it for the other lamp, provided it won't overheat.
It's also VERY blink-happy when fired up for the first time in hours.  Not that I care that much about
blink-happiesness on preheat or startup flicker on rapid start; I just really wanted a 4ft preheat fixture and also one that could run 34 watt lamps.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 01, 2014, 09:32:01 PM
Ah yeah I have CW ES lamps in the Cooper Turret in the garage but those lamps wouldn't be suitable in "living space" lol. My parents wouldn't let be install a fluorescent fixture in "living space" anyways. I have a F14T12 preheat strip over my bed and that's it (besides the closet lights)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 02, 2014, 09:54:33 AM
That's the one thing I really dislike about CW ES lamps...they have this nasty greenish-yellowish hue to them IMO.  It's okay by itself but looks ugly next to /735 lamps in the next room over. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 02, 2014, 03:25:08 PM
I like the greenish light in my garage though, sort of gives that industrial look, especially from a turret. Do /WW ES lamps have a different color than full wattage ones like how it is with CW? Like more pinkish or something?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 02, 2014, 09:21:58 PM
I've only seen one place that used WW ES lamps (along with CW ones), they were every generation of post-EPACT to Ecolux WW and CW GE Watt-Miser.  They seemed like...warm white! There was not a single 40 watt lamp in the whole school so I had nothing to compare them to.
It was a 50/50 mix practically (totally random) in those troffers with the 3/4" parabolic cell diffusers...they were horribly dim IMO! In one classroom I walked by you could tell the teacher had removed all the doors; they were sitting in the corner.
I moved my generator to a new location today.  I had to build a little structure (4 posts and a very fudged roof) for it.  It's nice and far away from the house and it's quieter but not as quiet as I'd hoped.  It's on the opposite side of the house so where I previously had noise now I don't but I do elsewhere.  My one next-door neighbor won't hear it anymore though!
I ran a piece of #12 NM direct burial over the ground for tonight but I need to bury it and straighten it out later.   
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 03, 2014, 03:27:03 PM
I thought you had a bunch of /WW 34W lamps too? Yeah 34W lamp-lit areas are pretty dim. The more lamps there are, the dimmer it is, if that makes any sense lol. (since you loose a certain number of lumens per lamp so more lamps makes the amount of "lost" lumens compared to 40W lamps greater). Hmm I don't see what right the teacher has to remove the covers off the lights. They're not his lights... That's like me taking the ceiling fan down from my bedroom without asking my parents lol.

12-guage? You think that's enough to feed your whole house? O_O I'd personally go with 10 at the smallest. How many amps can that generator produce?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 03, 2014, 11:07:06 PM
Nah I have a bunch of Warm white GE Mainlighter lamps and some cool white GE Watt-Misers.  Yeah I know exactly what you mean...although I've seen places where ES lamps were fine and I might have even relamped with them intentionally.
Yeah but it's sorta THEIR classroom they have to be in all day so I think they had a right to.  Personally I would've stuck 40w 5000K lamps in there AND removed the diffusers if I was that teacher but that's just me...I'd have the old lamps and diffusers sitting in the corner the whole time though.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 03, 2014, 11:09:42 PM
Oops I meant #10AWG...I think that's the minimum, maybe even a little generous, because a 2000w generator will realistically only give 15 amps but I intend to put a 3000 watt model in there so #10 will be PERFECT...plus it's 250 feet of run before it gets to the house anyway.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 04, 2014, 12:15:43 AM
Hey Mike, guess what? Next Friday I will be using the very table saw that was having the starting issues at the Sears shoplight house.  That former teacher is going to teach me woodworking and I'm pretty excited! Sure, I can cut a 2X4 with a skillsaw but I'm pretty terrible.  I've tangled with most power tools at least once, sometimes by myself without anyone else to show me, but I'd like to get better at it. 
I also noticed that 4-lamp 6' slimline pic of Darren's now has 79 comments! LOL
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 04, 2014, 01:54:26 PM
Ah I see. My house has 200A service with an overhead feed. Of course we don't come close to maxing it out though lol. I have 240V service (120/N/120) but I don't know if the main breaker is rated in 240V amps or 120V amps.

Ahh I'm Ok with power tools. I'm in construction shop at school so I learn more about them.

Wow it almost has more comments than Devonte's shoebox thread! Jace had said no more comments were allowed on that pic since they were all off-topic posts and it was "spamming up" the gallery.  here's the pic.  (http://www.galleryoflights.org/mb/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-3841) After the first few comments, they're not even related to the shoebox lol. The irony to it is that it's such a bland, plain picture and yet somehow it got all spammed up lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 05, 2014, 01:21:51 AM
Without even clicking the link, I know I've seen that one before! And yeah it had a lot...in our case about pot growing operations and Romex LOL. 
Yeah I max out my 15A all the time and have maxed out my 20A (one 20A breaker on each hot leg so very underbreakered) on my 10Kw before too.  I guess it's a good thing it's only 20A though since it feeds a bunch of outlets on #12 wire which can only safely handle 20A.  (The outlets are there because it makes it easier switching back and forth with portable generators).  And also the wire going into my main breaker panel is only #12 Romex.  That's all 20A breakers too, including the main one, except for one 30A branch breaker...how wrong LOL.  But I don't use that much power, despite my hobby!
I helped someone repair the roof on a house they own next to mine so they can leave for a year and have it survive the winter.  We admittedly went over rot but it's going to be replaced in it's entirety next June. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 05, 2014, 03:42:15 PM
I finally wired that Lithonia "basket wrap" to power today and it works.  (I mounted it on the garage ceiling in July and attached Romex but never got it wired in at the other end until now.  That little residential-grade Advance ballast is surprisingly bright with 34 watt lamps too.  I think it's brighter than the Ace F40/CE/EEs (GE Watt-Misers in disguise) on a little Radionic LPF ballast  in a nearby Lithonia wraparound of the previous generation.  I like the design of the latter a lot actually.  I had to change it's ballast before and it was nice and easy since the endplates come off (held on with screws) and the sockets slide right off.
Both are running without diffusers and we'll see what they're like come winter subfreezing temps...they sure beat those 8ft 60w slimlines in the same room!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 05, 2014, 04:38:01 PM
Oh wow. I guess off-grid you can get away with that but if your area were to ever be put on the grid that wouldn't fly lol.

Oh you didn't wire it up til now. I thought you had powered it when you attached the Romex. I haven't gotten to fusing my Harmony House preheater yet so it's just installed for "display" purposes (basically to get it out of the way lol) I will fuse it soon...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 05, 2014, 08:53:40 PM
I suppose so.  Although I would think it would be grandfathered in most likely but any additions/rewiring would have to be done up to spec.  I'd gladly hook on to the grid if it ever came through though! There's been feasability studies done here before and the quickest/easiest option would be a huge diesel generator for a town of less than 100 people and the initial cost of all the wiring and equipment would be pretty high, operating costs would be too, and also some people might not even hook on...I know I would unless I had something substantially less expensive or totally solar/wind or something. (Although the latter is what I'd like to do).
I'd probably get a 100 amp service if that ever did happen but just plug the house in for now LOL although one of the first things would be hooking up the element in my hot water tank instead of heating it with a little diesel stove.  That would use the most power...like I said, I DON'T USE THAT MUCH POWER! I'd also hook it up like that so if there was ever a power outage my inverter would simply kick in instead and if it lasted more than, say, 12 hours, I would have to start my generator after that to charge my batteries.  (I run my generator as it is for about 2 hours in the morning and 2 in the evening and run off a 12v battery bank and inverter the rest of the time). 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 06, 2014, 01:52:24 PM
Hmm I don't know how much power we use but our bill can be as high as 250 bucks in the summer with the central AC running. In the winter the bill is generally lower since we have natural gas heat. Natural gas hot water too. We have an electric stove though. We do laundry every day so the washer and dryer probably use a lot of power and we have a dish washer than runs probably every other day or every 3 days. I would assume the stove, dish washer, and dryer use the most power since they are 240V (well i think the dishwsher is, not sure, 50-50 chance it's 120V or 240V).

Here everyone is on the grid except places that are solar powered. I would think using a generator would be pretty pollutful (if that's even a word lol) and you must have to use electricity very sparingly. I have a nice big transformer to feed me from the pole in front of my house lol I think it feeds maybe 8-10 houses or so.

Well if you were to go on-grid the electric company whoever that may be, would be responsible up to the meter. An electrician certified by the utility would connect the main breaker to the metered service feed and once your house is wired up the utility will put in a meter and you'll have power. If you have some serious code issues they will probably make you fix it. Wiring that is way off code should not be grandfathered IMO but I don't know. If it was done to code at the time the house was built that's one thing but if there are later "Mr. Fix-It" hack jobs all over the place i'd make people have them fixed if i was the utility company. But I don't see you guys ever being on-grid. You guys are better off staying off-grid if you can and invest in wind and solar energy. Nice and green. Of course you'd need a ton of solar panels to power what an average house consumes but since you seem to already use energy sparingly you probably wouldn't have to change your ways much. I guess for a start, you could hook the lighting in your house up to a small solar or wind system and just have your appliances run off of the generator. Solar pwoer would probably definitely require LEDs or CFLs though lol. You can't use a lot of energy unless you cover your entire roof with panels and then have some elsewhere lol. They're developing solar panels that are more "concentrated" though. In other words, one panel will be able to create more energy than an older panel. My grandparents have a couple solar panels on their roof and they're really really old. They've never worked/been hooked up since they've lived there which has been since around 1970.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 06, 2014, 03:02:06 PM
This is turning into a REALLY interesting discussion! I use LESS than a gallon of gasoline a day (maybe 1/2 gallon tops usually) running my generator, maybe a gallon max on high usuage days like washing every textile item in the house or something).  Yeah my late mother NEVER ran the A/C for exactly that reason.  Got to the point she wouldn't run the (gas) furnace either.  This got bad once she was on oxygen...don't want to use the wood-fired fireplace with that going on heaven forbid there should be a leak and you get an oxygen-enriched atmosphere in the house: BOOM!
I have a wood-burning stove and I'd say it's fairly efficient.  Turned way up (airflow wise) it goes through a load of wood quickly but it will easily last the night...though if I get up in the middle of the night I jam more in anyway.  I'm not sure how much I use each winter but I can tell you it's probably 10-15 cords-ish.  I don't even run it from like April-October though since I have a diesel stove heating my hot water which contributes heat to the house as well.  And I'm of the "Just throw on a sweater" mentality! I see others running their woodstoves in June and think "WTF?" Here it's probably 59-60 degrees farenheit in here, maybe 50 outside, so not bad.  When I do have the woodstove going I keep it at 70-75 minimum LOL. 
For me the power hogs are the washer/dryer (not so much even the dryer since it's propane), microwave, toaster oven (those two REALLY rev up a 2Kw generator), and power tools.  (Chopsaw, skillsaw, shop-vac, etc.  But those aren't used as often.
I know people that have solar but I don't think anyone never has to run a generator, though people can easily go multiple days without running one.  It sure helps though! I had/have a nPower 400w 12v wind turbine but it's since died (siezed up).  Not huge but it made a difference...although there were never days I did not have to run my generator since another power hog is a chest freezer, my inverter will run it but it kills batteries quickly.  Doesn't draw that much but it's a prolonged load...I run things like a chopsaw, toaster, etc. on my batteries/inverter and although they draw in excess of 1500w each on a 2000w inverter they're only on for very short periods. 
I have a propane stove.
As far as at the time the place was built, my house has been built at (I counted) TEN, yes TEN different times! (I know, crazy, right?) I have black, white, and yellow romex ranging from 70s-now.  I'd probably wire the water heater straight to the grid but plug my inverter/charger into the house so it would kick in in the event of a power outage.  Some of it's going to be redone in the next year or so though so there SHOULD be a #4 wire going into my panel! So it will likely be closer to code than it is now. 
At the rate I run my generator it's probably about the same as some people's commutes sittng in traffic for 1.5-2hrs each way with the car idling the whole time LOL.  (If I start driving I'll turn the car off when stopped in a road construction zone, etc; my mother would always do that).  I use power pretty sparingly when not running my generator to make my batteries last longer though...one light on in the whole house, ONLY in the room I'm in, etc. 
Oh, I'm very much a CFL user for that very reason! (Gag all you want LOL).  If I redid ALL the wiring I'd make as many things 12vDC as possible: lights, radio, etc.  and only turn on an inverter when needed.  So close to your idea there.  I have a 2000 watt inverter and in theory with a nice big battery bank and lots of solar panels and maybe some wind turbines  so in theory I could use up to 2000w of 120v in ideal conditions...after that I'd have to start my 10Kw generator.  I intend to wire up my water heater element to that generator someday so if it's going it's giving hot water too.  I've even contemplated putting it's radiator in the house somewhere. 
I wonder if your grandparents' panels still work though?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 06, 2014, 05:22:54 PM
Oh man I need the A/C. Today it reached 91 degrees with 77% humidity. That's a real oddball though. The average high for this sime of year is 78 degrees. This summer has actually been rather comfortable. Usually it's in the low 90s for most of July but it was in the upper 70s to mid 80s. March to early June and mid-September to mid-November are usually when we have our "perfect" days when it's not too hot, not too cold (50s-60s range). Those months can be really bi-polar though since we have random hot days and random cold days but by mid-June the heat is on. The heat isn't really noticable until June usually. July is pretty hot and August is the hot and muggy month. the first half of September is hot and muggy too. It's actually hotter here in early September than it is in early-to-mid June. When we go back to school, it's warmer and muggier than it is when we get out.

Interesting. with our thermostat (one dial for heat and A/C, with a 3-position switch on the side: HEAT - OFF - A/C) in the summer when we run the A/C we keep it at 74 in the daytime and turn it down to 71 at night when we go to bed. In the winter when we run the heat I think we keep it at 70 during the day and 67 at night. We keep it cooler at night all year round since it's easier to sleep when it's cooler.

Our electric bill in August was $250. The rates here for July 1st 2014 to December 31st 2014 is $0.07879 (7.9 cents) per kWh so that means we used about 3173 kWh during the month of August this year. That seems to be an unusually high kWh number though so if you want to double-check that math for me feel free to... I think our bills are probably around 100 bucks to 120 bucks a month in the winter so the AC is a big energy pig. My mom vacuums a lot too and we use a microwave everyday (1000W unit) so there's a chunk of change there. And we have a fridge (obviously lol). We use our lights a lot. We have CFLs in the kitchen and dining room lights which are used the most. Our living room table lamp has a 50-200-250W incandescent 3-way lamp, typically left in the 200W mode from sunset until about 11PM.

I guess maybe we are energy pigs lol. As long as we pay our bill every month I don't see the issue with that though. NGrid created electricity using natural gas, which has little effect on the earth CO2-wise when compared to burning coal. RI was thinkng about an off-shore "wind farm" (wind turbines) to generate electricity but costs ended that discussion for now.

BTW, I fused and corded my Harmony House light. Damn that thing is bright!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 06, 2014, 05:45:40 PM
It would get pretty darn hot at my mother's house in the summer without the A/C but it wasn't too bad either.  We just ran the ceiling fans all the time and closed the windows/doors and their drapes/shades/curtains during the day and opened them at night when it was cooler.  It was always cooler at that house than downtown because we were under the shade of the oak trees.  I miss that place...
The opposite would have been true in winter although I wasn't there for the last 5 winters.  It was very concerning to us family members and friends that she was living in a house with no heat towards the end.  I'm sure that didn't help the COPD at all.  The house was insulated well though, it held temperature.  When I went there cleaning out the house after she passed away it would be like 60 outside and 40 inside...I would open all the doors and windows while there, also because many things were being moved in and out.  It was enough that all the fluorescent lights in the house flickered though.
Even now with things getting cooler here and lots of rain (I started cleaning 6-month-old ashes out of my woodstove for 2 hours and I'm still not done but had to take a break) I'm still sleeping with the window open and sometimes a fan going! The bugs have been HORRIBLE here this year though! I was helping reroof part of a neighbor's house and they were BAD! And 3 stories up they're like "Yeah the bugs aren't any better up here". 
Nice! Post pics! What does that one have for a ballast again? It's not a longjohn is it? Still using those DOIt (GE) lamps out of the one that set itself on fire?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 06, 2014, 07:04:30 PM
I can't stand the heat ick. The cold doesn't bother me but if it's too cool and I never have a chance to warm up them I just have this weird feeling. My body just seems different. Like my bones are chilled I guess... I like the cool but I just take a nice hot shower to make up for it.

Yeah I can imagine the cold not helping her any. Hopefully she at least bundled up. i don't want to have to bundle up in my own home though. I want it to be warm enough so that I can wear a t-shirt and jeans (i don't wear long-sleeve shirts at all during the year except for dressy button-down shirts). She's lucky that no pipes froze if she didn't use the heat at all. Did she leave the faucets dripping a little to prevent them from freezing?

The ballast is a Jefferson tu-lamp brick style ballast. It's the length of an RS ballast but the width of probably an HO ballast. Yep, using the DOit lamps from the other fixture (for the record it didn't catch fire :P but it probably came close :o ). The burnt up fixture seem to put more end blackening on the lamps, which the people of the LG said is a tell-tale sign the cap failed, overdriving the lamps and overheating the ballast coils (overheating is an understatement!). the lamps still work though! I'm using the original starters from the Harmony House fixture since they still work. I'll post pics soon. 8)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 06, 2014, 10:22:32 PM
I hate both extremes but can't decide which is worse. 
I don't know but it got bad at the end.  It doesn't really ever get below freezing long enough to freeze plumbing but I imagine she did.  My Dad and I wondered about pipes freezing after she passed and it was unoccupied but the utilities still turned in but my godparents (M-400A) would have gone over and drained the pipes had that happened.
How blackended are they now? Were they blackened at all before?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 07, 2014, 09:16:47 AM
They're not super black on the ends but they look like they have a few hundred hours extra blackening on the ends. It's very noticable when the lamps are on and it's dark eneough to be visible when the lamps are off too.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 07, 2014, 09:51:51 AM
The GE Watt-Misers in the basket wrap look like that...they were actually in the first Sears shoplight when I got it, so a full power GE Bonusline rapid start ballast.  I don't think they have a whole lot left...they're black all the way around and starting to get that "teardrop" thing which is usually close to the end on GE lamps.  I might even resort to actually buying 34 watt lamps since I have so many fixtures were they work BETTER than 40 watt lamps!
They look like a very early version of the post-EPACT Watt-Miser: (E) but lack FOR COMMERCIAL USE ONLY.  Also still has the F40CW/RS/WM ordering code but that didn't go away for awhile...so I think it might even have the older GE electrodes!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 08, 2014, 10:41:37 PM
I'm currently painting my bedroom with paint I found under my house from 2002 at the newest since the house was empty from 2002-2010 when we moved in.  It's a medium-dark blue which is perfect for a bedroom and I found enough other stuff to do other rooms too. 
It occurred to me what I thought was silver paint might also be SilverSeal roof sealer too...not sure I want to paint fixtures like that LOL...I saw some being done at someone's house today and it smelled nasty like mine and looked the same LOL...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 09, 2014, 09:23:25 AM
Oh cool! I've wanted to paint my room a medium-dark blue too but I don't think I ever will lol. Yeah if it's roof sealer I'd think you wouldn't want to use it as paint lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 09, 2014, 09:47:45 AM
Yeah it's going to take 2 coats minimum for sure.  If I had some white I'd lighten it up a bit though but that's perfect for a bedroom...I'm not going to use it in any room except that for just that reason.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 09, 2014, 01:55:21 PM
Do you have any fluorescent lights in you bed room? Is it finished or is it unfinished like a loft or something? I'd love to add a fluorescent light in my room that I could use BLB lamps in and get some BLB posters for my room. :D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 09, 2014, 08:19:36 PM
Only a 22w circline adapter.  It was T-11 on one wall and plywood on the opposite wall when I moved in (closed in the space between garage and shop I guess from what people have told me that remember it a long time ago) and insulation on the exterior wall and ceiling.  It got Sheetrock and tape/mud/primer in January of 2013 and I'm just now painting it and plan to do some basic trim.  Then my house will have one completely finished room! ;D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 09, 2014, 09:22:40 PM
Oh wow you room must be quite dim? i guess you're used to it though. i have a FC33 LOA circline adapter and it's very dim. Probbly equal to a 40 or 60W incandescent, though I'm sure the LOA electronic adapter isn't really pushing the lamp that hard lol. Did you and your dad install the drywall on the walls and ceiling? I know you're off-grid so you need to use electricity sparingly but let's say i was in your shoes and you were on grid, I would have installed a fair amount of duplex outlets and then installed a bunch of round JBs on the ceiling and used blank round covers on them. I'd wire them all to two switches. I'd have a ceiling can in the center of the room on a third switch. The "blank" boxes would be in case I ever wanted to add light fixtures in my room.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 13, 2014, 11:53:08 AM
Yeah us and someone else installed the Sheetrock.
I didn't add any wiring but I actually got rid of some, namely where someone had wired from an outlet box to a random plastic blue JB with a dimmer switch to control a couple attic fans...it was on the surface of the wall and I got rid of it and replaced that receptacle anyway.  I know there's at least one dead wire in the wall that goes nowhere on both ends though.
I'm getting quite a few F20T12 preheat and trigger start fixtures, so I might add something in there actually.  Not sure what though. 
Originally when I moved in there was one 60 watt incandescent lighting the room.  I stuck a CFL in there and then for awhile put a Lithonia 1XF20T12 with a Universal TS ballast and Philips F20T12/WW from August 1997 up there, on a cord plugged into the light fixture with a socket-to-outlet adapter.  But I took that down when it became time to install Sheetrock. (I had it screwed to one of the roof joists).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 13, 2014, 07:32:06 PM
Ah I see. If I could, I'd install a single lamp F40T12 fixture in my room on the ceiling, probably near where the double-window is  (Kinda looks like this).  (http://st.houzz.com/simgs/a98123e600aaabee_4-2418/windows.jpg) I'd install a BLB lamp in it and then put up some BLB posters. My parents wouldn't let me mount a light in my room though. The garage was allowed only because my dad wanted extra light but the bedroom wouldn't fly. My mom wouldn't want an ugly fluorescent light upstairs and my dad doesn't want any holes in his precious drywall so unless I can hold the thing up with scotch tape I'm out of luck lol. My exit sign is held up by velcro. Not sure how to removed the velcro adhesive from the wall without ripping the paint off though lol. i'll probably just leave the velcro there and maybe hang a picture over it when i move out lol. It's two ~6" strips of black velcro on the white wall lol.

My basement lights are getting dim to the point where they're dimmer than the 60W incandescents I replaced. (the 75W= halogens have dimmed). One I did replace with a 60W incandescent because it was so dim. it still worked so i stuck it in a table lamp that we never use. It's still about the brightness of a 40W lamp, maybe a little less. i wonder if it's still using 53W. If so, sounds a lot like an HID lamp source I know of lol. There were three halogens total. Two on one switch, which are used a lot, and then one on its own switch, which isn't used quite as much. The one on its own probably dimmed out somewhat but isn't that dim. With the ones on the same switch, one dimmed so much I had to replace it since it was so inefective. I stuck in a 60W lamp. The other one is probably about the same brightness as the 60W incandescent.

The fixtures are rated 60W MAX but I wonder if I could get away with using 75W lamps? Even with 60W lamps the fixtures must run hot since the paint is discolored around the lamps. Personally I'd like to get new fixtures, two lamp fixture but I'd have to buy them and that's not happening. Maybe if I let the lamps dim out enough it'll convince my parents to get two lamp fixtures. Kinda rediculous how they're only one lamp anyways since I'd personally use a 100W lamp (or two 60W lamps) in them but they're only rated for one 60W lamp and 60W seems to be pushing the envelope as it is. 23W CFLs are too big. Actually, even 13W CFLs are too big except for the cram ones. And LEDs are too directional since the lamps are horizontal. The incandescent/halogens are directional as it is (light obviously can't go in the direction of the base). I just dislike those "boob lights" as it is, though I don't mind the 2 lamp ones.

 These octagonal globe lamp lights are nice.  (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/511x%2BJn4c1L._SX342_.jpg) Though not sure if they'd look good in our basement. I see them at the ReStore from time to time. I don't buy incandescent fixtures though. I do take vintage looking bulbs out of fixtures though and buy them for 25 cents each. They just assume i grabbed them from the lamp bin in the basement. I had bought a nice 40W 130V ITT incandescent inside frost but it was dead so I tossed it. i bet 130V 40W incandescent is really dim! The current "boob lights" downstairs are white so if I were to get some of those octagonal globe lights I'd have to get white ones or paint them white. My parent's wouldn't let me replace the fixtures unless it's their idea though. So if the halogens dim enough, they'll wonder why it's so dim and tell me to install a higher wattage lamp and I'll just say they're 60W and that's as high as I can go. Then maybe they'll consider brighter fixtures. The fixtures are especially dim in comparison to all the fluorescents down there too. The garage, utility room, and laundry room are all fluorescents. I was told there's now ay fluorescents are replacing the "boob lights" so if there's more light, it'll be more incandescent light.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 13, 2014, 07:53:49 PM
Mike! Your little description had me laughing so hard I was squirting Schweppes Ginger Ale out of my nose! Funny you call them "boob lights" though since you're not the first to describe them as such...my Dad coined that term with the ones in our house and even joked we should paint the little nuts that hold the glass "globe" on pink...
I don't particularly care for them either; I thought about converting ours to 22w circline but it would probably be really dim.  They had 75w incandescents when we moved into the house but I later put 13w 825 lumen compact fluorescents in...they fit and aren't the cram ones but I'm not sure a 23w would.  Some other fixtures in my house are of a similar design but have the mushroom-shaped glass globe, know the ones? In THOSE the "cram" CFLs only fit though, I have 5000K ones in those and it looks like the moon IMO...
I want one of those tiffany stained glass lights to go over the table to replace one of the "boob lights", (Insert imitating voice there and fingers sketching quotation marks) and I'd probably stick a PL13 lamp or magnetic 22w circline adapter in there if it was me.  Ideally it would be on a dimmer switch but I run my house on MSW inverter power about 20 hours out of the day and MSW fries dimmer switches, so that's not really an option LOL.
BTW ever notice that super high pitched buzz incandescents make on dimmers dimmed way down? They do that on MSW too. 
I like those octagonal lights you described, though!
If it was my house I'd have 2XF96T12 fixtures down there but I can see how with most people that won't fly LOL, we're weird...
Although I'm getting a bunch of preheat and trigger start F15T12 and F20T12 fixtures out of a house that was mostly fluorescent!  I'm going to try and see if a LPF 2XF20T12 trigger start ballast will light one F40T12 or F34T12 if I shunt it for one lamp (reds/blues/no yellows).  I'm thinking it might work for my preheat fixture for the other lamp since usually a 2XF40 ballast has so much OCV when shunted the lamp simply instant-starts. SO, I'm thinking it might work.  I might get a chance to buy some FS-4 starters soon so I can hopefully run 40 watt lamps.  It will be dim and crappy, especially on MSW, but it's 4ft, preheat, and runs BOTH 34 and 40 watt lamps! Eventually I'll find a bunch of HPF ballasts (I hope) and make it brighter, and/or a nice F40 preheat ballast! There's some Valmont (later cousins to the GE Bonusline) 2XF40 standard F-can Class P ones on Ebay but I doubt they're going anywhere anytime soon since someone on LG mentioned they bought the "1 sold" over a year ago and plus I simply cannot afford it. 
I'm thinking my Vita-Lite Power Twist lamp will go in there for sure along with maybe a "big meatball" GE Chroma 50 at the friend's woodshop.
Some of the F20 lamps I might get include GENERAL (GE) ELECTRIC F20T12/CW, "big meatball" versions of same, Philips pre-Alto F20T12/WW and then the Alto version. That will be my first low-mercury T12 lamp! I I actually LIKE the green endcaps and reduced mercury concept (as long as the lamp won't go starved).  I think it's better if the lamp gets broken and/or improperly disposed of, i.e in the trash can. 
And there are lots of EOL/rectifying ones I will finish off on my 277v Advance lamp-killer ballast.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 13, 2014, 09:35:20 PM
LOL my 7th grade english teacher & her family apparently also call them boob lights too and funny thing is that my 7th grade enlish teacher was a female lol. Yeah a circline conversion would be really cool but like you said, way too dim considering the 60W incandescents aren't even enough. Ours are really small. Less than a foot in diameter. I've seen bigger ones. I'm just not a fan of the design in general though I do sorta like mine since the glass is sorta prismatic instead of opal. Yep, we have two of those mushroom lights that look  this here, brass and everything.  (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/511x%2BJn4c1L._SX342_.jpg) They're Ok looking but they have like foil paper reflectors inside that i swear is a fire hazard. Every time i change a lamp the reflector sheds some black pebble things so there's always crap in the glass since I'll wash the glass and then install it and then the crap falls off from me setting the glass into place and tightening the screws. :8) Those are even smaller than the boob lights and use two lamps. They have two 60W incandescents. Those are nice and bright. I don't know why they didn't use two-lamp lights in the basement...

I've noticed the high pitched buzz in certain instances but not all. Probably because some have enclosed lamps so i don't hear it... For fixtures, I like those globe lights (fixtures with one vertical lamp and a glass globe) and I also like  this style globe  (http://rymantolentino.typepad.com/.a/6a010536284ad2970b019b0209fba9970d-pi) Neither would look good in my house though. I love stained glass chandeliers and table lamps but my mom insists that they're too gothic lol.

For the basement, since it's finished, I'd like a lensed fixture. I have a 4X F20T12/TS cloud/puff wraparound fixture but I don't have two of them. The 1X2 2X F20T12 surface mount fixture doesn't come close to matching it. Ah your getting a bunch of F15s and F20s? How many? I have five F20 Fixtures. Two 2X, two 1X, and one 4X. All are trigger start exept one, the single lamp undercabinet light. I have three F15 fixtures, all single lamp. Two are NOS strips and the other is an undercabinet light for preheat F15T8s only. Oen of my strips will operate both F15T12s and F15T8s but the other won't start T8s unless you touch the lamp because I guess the lamp is too far away. It won't even start T12s ungrounded. The other strip, also with a universal ballast, will start fine ungrounded. Both are fairly new, though the one that struggles starting is older, its our age, from 1998. 8)

I have a lot of F20 lamps but not a whole lot of fixtures. I have mostly F40 fixtures but not a whole lot of F40T12 lamps considering. I have three F15T12s and five or six F15T8s. All are cool white except for one F15/WW GE HOME LIGHT.. I have a ton of F14s considering I only have the one fixture. I have about two dozen of them. All are vintage though so I don't want to blow through then all. right now the F14 over my bed (my only F14 fixture) is running a Westinghouse F14/CW. I'd run a daylight but I only have three daylight F14s, a 1956 GE that I will NOT use up, and two Sylvanias from Darren that are from the past 10 years or so. Post 2003, as they have the (Hg) logo.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 13, 2014, 10:23:10 PM
I think you mis-linked since it goes to a pic of one of those octagon lights...
I know the foil paper thing, but mine don't have that, it's metal.  I'll take a pic...
Those "Schoolhouse" globes are cool, my late mother's house had a couple globes similar to that but MUCH larger (like 18" I swear) and a different base.  The sockets even looked semi-vintage, the house was custom/owner-built originally so maybe they came from somewhere else? They got replaced with "bowl lights" (GU24 CFL) during an energy rebate and we took them to ReStore the same time I got that Westy F20T12/CW with aluminum ends. 
Not sure, but likely at least two single lampers, a Lampi preheat F20, 3 2-lampers, and some Lampi preheat 2XF20s I'll probably just gut for parts. I like the Lithonia strips better hands-down.
Okay so here's a good one that might make your day: so the lights started flickering and got worse and worse.  Sometimes it'd snap over to my inverter instead.  I figured "There's water in the gas, just let the generator die, I'll just go drain the carb when it does" Finally this kept happening (We're talking like 15 minutes later).  Went out there, and everything seems fine.  Pushed the 30A plug plugged into a 15A>30A plug adapter attached to #10AWG UF direct burial in to make sure it wasn't loose...and the plug was warm! Uh oh! Unplugged it from the adapter and it turns out it was arcing internally, hot enough to melt plastic and burn the lug screw off, and the one prong is still in the adapter.  I'll let it cool down and replace the plug tomorrow morning, I found another 30A twist-lock wire-on plug already.  Hope the adapter isn't ruined too.  Glad I caught it though before something worse (namely, a fire in a shed with a gas can and lots of trees around) happened! I'll post the pic I took of it...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 13, 2014, 10:41:40 PM
Oops  heres theright link  (http://www.kolmart.com/assets/images/60_401.jpg) The schoolhouse fixture in my dad's parent's house is vintage. Very old. It's in their kitchen. Probably from the 50s or 60s, maybe even older.

Oh wow! so you're saying the plug shorted/arced? That's weird. One of those wire-on ones? yeah good thing you caught it when you did!

at my brother's birthday party i always do a halloween scare theme when it gets dark and i put my street lights in the fence posts so i can clean up and see what I'm doing. I get very un-code with the street lights too, twisting stripped leads around male plugs and taping them up and stuff. I was using an 18AWG cord to power my M-250R1 and OV-10IB, about 400W total with ballast losses. That cord was warm! it was cool out though since we're talking mid-october so the cord didn't overheat but I'm sure it could have. The stupid things we do in life lol. I end up using a million of those adapters that let you plug 3-prong grounded cords into 2-prong ungrounded cords too. I all them "cheats" since you cheat the system of not being able to plug grounded cords into ungrounded receptacles lol. The wiring for that is one big red-neck mess but it's only for one night and I don't even leave it up over night. I clean everything up that night, which is why i put up some of my lights all over the place.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 14, 2014, 08:35:44 AM
I've been known to do all the things like plugging two extension cords together to make a longer one, using those "ground" adapters, how about taking six of those Y-adpaters for light sockets to make a 1-lamp fixture a f-lamp one?  :o
Externally it is not noticeable plugged in...but when I unplugged it from the adapter it was immediately obvious something was amiss!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 14, 2014, 09:12:42 AM
Oh I connect more than one cord together all the time. I don't even understand what the big deal is. two short extension cords are the same thing as one long one. I think that's pretty stupid. As long as you don't exceed the maximum amperage rating on the cord it doesn't matter how many you use in my opinion. If the cord is in an area where people will walk, I will ties them together at the plug ends so they don't pull apart by accident.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 14, 2014, 04:19:02 PM
I've seen/done that before so they don't pull apart when run vertically or running handheld power tools like a Sawzall that get moved around constantly.
I'm going to redo my generator feed, using that Westy cartridge fuse switch to terminate the #10 solid NM wire and the plug in part will be #10 stranded so hopefully what I think happened (solid wire in places with vibration) won't happen again. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 14, 2014, 07:54:28 PM
Well I spent about three hours on that project but I'm happy to say it's done (for now anyway) and it works.  I had to do more awful Andy carpentry to get a place to mount the switch and had to fudge the mounting since I did't have the ideal combo of roofing screws and a screw gun.  So I fudged it with some 8 penny nails and had to use a large bolt as a makeshift nail-set since a hammer will not fit in there.  The wiring-up part was by far the most difficult; stranded #10 Wire is just as bad as solid in terms of flexibility (or more accurately, the lack thereof).  I still need a strain relief/clamp for the box too, I ran both wires through one knockout but there's still room for them to move.  I tried folding the solid one in the box but that just wasn't happening LOL. One thing I don't like is that the "arm" of the switching mechanism can hit the wires if you're like me and use one knockout.  I need to fix that sometime.  Also I want the solid direct burial wire to have less than 10 feet of extra slack but it's not buried yet so I'm waiting till I finalize the setup.  All in all I think it's better than it was though.  I'll take pics of my wiring job and post them.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 14, 2014, 08:23:01 PM
Ah yeah that was quite a freak thing! Hope it doesn't happen again!

Today I helped my grandpa (one who owned the appartment, my mom's dad) take out a toilet. Quite an experience, as I've never taken out a toilet before. We have a pipe for a toilet in our basement in the laundry room since there were originally plans for a half-bathroom downstairs but that never happened. Not enough space. There's a pipe in the floor for waste sink water too for a sink that was never put in. The pipework for the waste water is all there under the concrete floor but everything else would still have to be done (floor tiled, walls finished, maybe ceiling finished. A lot of extra work and all it would do is eat away storage space. Where the toiley pipe is, that's where I have my cluster of five lights in the laundry room, four cbraheads and the NEMA head in the center. Where I store my F40 fluorescent lamps is around where the sink pipe is.

BTW, are you going to put the wire in conduit? It's probably not required. I'd always use conduit. PVC underground and then lay some gravel rocks over it. With some crushed stone over the pipe, you could drive a trailer truck over it and it wouldn't break. EMT and rigid conduit would rust if contacted with the ground so I'd use PVC under the ground and EMT above ground, though NGrid does the opposite, rigid conduit under ground and then PVC on the wood poles.

With my cutler-hammer disconnect, if i mount it how I plan to and get some nice poles in my future backyard, I'm not sure how I will wire it. I plan to mount it in the garage, which will be connected to the house and finished. I will run a 240V line from the breaker box to the C-H disconnect and from there I'll run the load feed through the wall to outside in PVC conduit and run it up the side of the house to near the top, have a weatherhead and from there have a 240V triplex feed like the electric companies use to the poles. Joe Maurath Jr will probably be able to supply most of the line hardware and screw-in insulators. I'll have to buy the poles of course and probably the triplex feed. I'll probably end up needing to buy the mast arms too. I'd prefer 6ft arms. I have a 2ft, 4ft, and two 30" brackets currently.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 14, 2014, 10:25:37 PM
I doubt it but for another feed to another outbuilding we took PEX water pipe and ran #12 extension cord wire through it.  It's only a few inches underground but will eventually be taken out since it turns out the woodshed isn't even on our property! :o
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 15, 2014, 06:01:27 AM
water pipe! :o lol
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 15, 2014, 10:06:16 AM
Not copper, but that flexible PEX stuff.  It's still better than burying an extension cord, which I've also seen done somewhere. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 15, 2014, 03:21:35 PM
yeah that's about all that PEX crap is good for. I hate using it for water pipes. Copper pipe is just better IMO, though it is more expensive. My house is frm 2003 but fortunately uses copper pipes, unlike almost all new houses, which use PEX crap.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 15, 2014, 08:01:50 PM
Heeeeeyyyyyy! (Insert little kid on-the-brink-of-a-tantrum-meltdown voice there) Don't you insult my "PEX crap"! :) I like that stuff much better than copper! It supposedly won't break as easily if it freezes and has fewer fittings and isn't loud like copper plumbing can often be.  But to each his own LOL...
Taking out a toilet...remodeling a bathroom? It must be easy to remove but the install part is tricky I imagine, getting it aligned properly with the wax ring and all.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 16, 2014, 02:55:54 PM
Eh when it comes to plastic vs. metal I typically side with metal. I can't imagine hot water and plastic going good together.I saw a PEX house and it just looked kind of cheesey. I suppose both have their advantages though. Don't have to worry about scrappers lol.

The toilet had to come out so the floor can be redone. When the floor is redone the toilet and radiator will go back in place. To remove it all we did was shut off the oval water valve, drain the tank (by flushing it), disconnect the hose, get a yogurt cup to scoop the rest of the water out of the bowl, remove the nuts and washers, and it popped right up. I didn't know it was that easy to be honest. The old tennant was on drugs (we suspect, him leaving was on his own terms, probably because my grandparents were catching on to him, or so he thought) and left used needles all over the place and apparently smoked in the apartment and drop cigarettes, leaving burn marks on the floor, especially in the bathroom, hence the floor being redone. He seems like a weirdo to be honest. I'd met him once or twice and he seemed like he was high by the way he was talking to me. The appartment is right next door to my grandparents' house. They plan to sell their house and move into one of the four appartment suites (still owning the appartemtof course). Not sure when/if/how that's going to work out.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 16, 2014, 11:12:23 PM
Depends...I guess one advantage is that it burns! Someone told me a story about a fire happening and being put out by a washing machine inlet hose that burned off (Fire was started by a faulty clothes dryer). 
Same person also told me a story about having a major plumbing bummer occur in their house while out of the house for a few hours, and came home to multiple inches of standing water!
Another thing I like about PEX is it bends so fewer fittings: Half the copper problems I see are freezing, the other half is simply failed solder joints!
I'm currently building a cutting board (the kind you chop vegetables on) in the Sears-shoplight woodshop.  I might post it somewhere on here.
And remember how I said I was scoring lots of F20T12 fixtures and lamps? I'm replacing a few tomorrow at that person's house and getting paid both monetarily and in fixtures/lamps removed.  They need to be replaced though- they have issues, namely erratic starting (ungrounded trigger start, many with EOL and rectifying lamps), slow starters on mass preheat installs, etc.  It's really "interesting" in someone else's house finding the right light switch to get to the basement bathroom with no windows in windowless hallways when there's umpteen light switches and you never know which actually works because the starters take forever! Lots of warm white Philips Alto lamps in there.   They're Alto and warm white (Eww gross!) but they're free and work, so they'll just get used up by me.  And apparently there's a bunch of not-installed ones I can have too!
I'm half done painting my bedroom as of last night, too! 3 coats going from white to fairly dark blue, wow!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 17, 2014, 03:56:51 PM
It would take a long time to burn with water in it though. On a camping trip, we put a water bottle into the camp fire (yeah stupid, but we did it anyway) and the plastic deformed and stuff but it did not burn until it was at the base of the fire, when the plastic gave out and there was a HISSSS sound of the (at that point boiling) water turning into steam once the bottle burned. By that point, the water inside couldn't regulate the temperature of the plastic bottle so the bottle reached it's melting point. We did the same thing with a paper coffee cup filled with water. The cup was not directly exposed to the flame but it was hot enough for the white cup (a Dunkin' Donuts cup) to turn jet black, yet the inside remained white. The water appeared to be near boiling, as there were tiny bubbles on the bottom of the cup (inside where the water was)  but the seal at the base of the cup went and the water spilled out the bottom, another HISSSS sound. Then the next thing we know the paper cup is a small pile of ash lol.

Yeah single lamp trigger start absolutely sucks ungrounded. I generally don't find issues with the HPF ballasts, though the 1979 Universal Therm-O-Matic I pulled from my great-aunt's garage did not like to start ungrounded. Ironically, both fixtures lit up fine when i flicked them on before replacing the ballasts. The first time in a long time that they've both worked with one try.  I still converted them to T8 though. The new T8s are much brighter (SPX35 GE EcoLux lamps from 2006, some lamps that I'd gotten from school from those parabolic troffers) and the electronic ballasts are silent and start very reliably. How long they'll work, I don't know, but they do work. I told her if there's anything wrong that I'd fix them.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 17, 2014, 10:44:00 PM
For the first time my late 70s Therm-O-Matic wouldn't start the lamps until I touched them, a pair of GE Chroma 50s.
It would still eventually burn though like you said.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 21, 2014, 07:04:22 PM
Is the thing grounded? If not that's why. :P HPF ballasts are less fussy than NPF ones but they will refuse to start sometimes.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 23, 2014, 10:39:42 PM
It is not.  I was totally thinking of your (aunt's?) garage lights though when it happened.
I wonder if a slimline has the same issue? I think mine might...it's fussy about starting lamps although it's one of the 80s-90s Advance ballasts that are notorious for having capacitor issues.  It wouldn't light this morning and I touched the lamps after it had been lit maybe 2 minutes or so and it fired right up!
I might add that 60w energy saver slimlines flickering in 50 degree temps on a generator with hertz issues (lights flicker slightly constantly) is absolutely horrible.  So is, to a lesser extent, /950 lamps on magnetic ballast.
Most of my fluorescent fixtures that should be grounded (rapid start) are not since they're all wired to 2-prong cords.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 24, 2014, 02:49:47 PM
LOL yep my great-aunt's garage lights that I converted to F32T8 were very fussy. they're nice and bright now and she seemed very happy to have all the extra light now. :) The HPF 2X ballast was a Universal Therm-O-Matic-x and the single lamp NPF ballast was a Robertson ballast with a missing label. The label was loose in the fixture and I left it in the channel and my great aunt  wiped down the channel, it must have fallen out. She said she didn't throw anything out. So I just taped a piece of paper to it saying "Robertson F30/F40 RS 120V NPF" on it until I get or make a label for it.

The HArmony House preheater is doing well in my garage too. Nice and bright in my garage as well, except for winter when the Cooper Turret will be flickering and striating with its Philips Econ-o-watt lamps. I'd rather use them instead of use up my fullwattage tubes right now. Plus since the garage is cool in the winter (and stays relatively cool in the summer) it shouldn't run too hot. The ballast ran cool to the touch with 34W tubes after a half hour so that's saying something. It must have gotten warm when it ran all night that time the longjohn preheater had a meltdown since when i took off the reflector to inspect the ballast, the label was all wavy and bumpy. Could be from humidity though I guess. I'm pretty sure it was perfect when i got it but I don't remember.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 24, 2014, 09:33:30 PM
Nice to hear it's doing well.  My slimline is horrible on any non-blazing-summer day with it's 60 watt energy saver lamps, which never quit flickering.  If I ever get near a HOME DEPOT OR LOWES there will be 75 watt lamps in the offing.  I want to buy some daylight F20T12s too.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 25, 2014, 03:26:55 PM
Ah in the winter the Cooper turret doesn't stop flickering and it is quite annoying but that's why I want to use those lamps up lol. Maybe I'll stick in F40s and save the F34s for NPF ballasts... They're fine when it's not cold though. Like in the summer they start up fine with no flicker. I think the reduced wattage slimlines are worse in the cold than the F34s. I think longer lamps are worse in the cold in general.

I'll have to see how dim my grandpa's shop is this winter. In his shop you can see your own breath. It's probably 45-50 degrees in the shop. He's got the heat going but it's a 1940 cinderblock building with a bunch of ratty garage doors so it's pretty drafty in the winter. In the summer it's not noticable since he doesn't have AC there. He's got circulation fans that blow outwards in the walls in the spraybooth room but they're more for air ventilation because of the spray fumes, not for heat.

I'd like to get some daylight F20s too or 5000K F20s, though the latter would probably be the dim 90 CRI variety which i don't want.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 26, 2014, 10:21:03 AM
The energy saver slimlines are horrible! I hear many people say they're the worst of the energy saver T12s.
Speaking of those lamps...I had a dream like that I found a 4-lamp turret 8ft slimline.  I think I must have had 60w energy savers in there since I remember it flickering in the dream.  For some reason I had it in the old finishing room of the friend's woodshop two of the Sears F40 shoplights came from.  Then somehow it was a VHO? I was digging through a bunch of junk piled up in the room (It's a little 10X10-ish room) and found four blackender Norelco F96T12/CW/VHOs (No idea if such a thing ever existed in real life) in white unmarked cardboard sleeves and was thinking "ooh, I'm set for life on spare lamps!" Then the dream ended...I hate those where you find a rare lamp then the dream ends!
I'm torn between daylight and C50 F20s.  The latter, although dim/flickery, will match well with the GE Chroma 50 and Sylvania Design 50 F40s I have in the next room over.  Next month I'm likely getting some warm white Alto F20s I might just use up.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 26, 2014, 03:31:44 PM
Yeah they really suck. Interesting dream. I typically don't remember my dreams and if I do, they're unexplainable. I just don't know how to put it into words. It's like there's a trillion things going on at once.

F20s should still be marked "CHROMA 50". They'd match nicely. I'm using a /WW GTE Sylvania in my preheat undercabinet light even though the rest of the room is cool white. I have so many of the lamps I figured I may as well use them up lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 28, 2014, 08:34:19 AM
I had another one this morning in which my school got some grant to become totally solar-powered, etc.  This I guess meant reducing energy consumption by converting fluorescents to LEDs? I walked into a small entryway (door , small room with one 2X40 wraparound and another door in real life) and saw one of the lamps had been changed...the diffuser was off and there was a GE Ecolux lamp in there? Then someone I know (building maintenance people that is) was retrofitting some fixtures in the same area.  I saw a green/yellow Universal Therm-O-Matic ballast in a pile of removed stuff and asked about removed lamps/ballasts but they said probably not, it's one of those stupid grants.  I said "I don't want you go get in trouble for dispersing the stuff to the general public" then woke up.  Funny enough, that 4 Non Blondes song "What's up" (And I pray/oh my god then I pray/ I pray every single day/ for revolution) was stuck in my head...that's what I think of the way those grants mandate disposal/destruction of anything removed LOL.
In real life, though, a 4XF96T12/VHO turret would be cool. (And bright!)
I like the Chroma 50 name better than "Sunshine" or "Closet & Laundry" or whatever they're called now.  I like Sylvania Design 50 better though, I have both in the same room and the D50 is brighter I think and the color is less purplish than the GE C50s.
The 4' preheat project is now 2-lamp.  I stuck in a half-dead Lumi-Kon LPF rapid start ballast for the other lamp.  Still need FS-4 starters, as the one will light a 40w lamp successfully but only for a little bit then will cycle again and again.  I tested a bunch of my 40w lamps on preheat though as of now to say the least.
I eventually hope to find a REAL preheat fixture, then rip the homemade guts out of that Sears shoplight it's in now and convert that thing back to what it should be: HPF rapid start. Ideally a nice post-PCB full power ballast too. 
I might add I had that thing running as a worklight while painting my room last night and that VitaLite PowerTwist lamp blows a 34w cool white right out of the water in brightness!
Title: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on September 29, 2014, 04:50:07 PM
Yeah a 4X VHO fixture would be bright! Would be very heavy too! I finally got to light my F25T12/30" Sylvania lamps from 1962 using a single lamp F14/15/20 trigger start ballast and a FS-4 starter (FS-2 wouldn't work, even for F20s). Needless to say, the lamps worked great! Yeah i bet it was a lot brighter than a F34! I wonder how many lumens the PowerTwist lamps and others like it were rated for. A good F40 IMO is around 3000 lumens.

I'm beginning to prepare for the Halloween Scare at my brother's birthday party Columbus Day weekend. Picking out which fluorescent lights will be involved. I will be using a SimKar single lamp F20 and F40 strips with BLB lamps in the scare and probably a couple "regular" fluorescents at the end as a guide light. I might run a 100W HPS in my 35W HPS mini highbay for the LPS-effect. To ease clean-up, I will be using a few cobraheads mounted in the fence posts. During the scare I'll remove the PCs and stick in open caps. I'm thinking my M-250R, M-250R1, and OV-10 since they're all 175W. I can only use three since that's how many yardblaster arms or conduit elbows I have for my lights. And of course they'll be mounted way up too lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 29, 2014, 10:00:45 PM
I don't know but BRIGHT! I wish I had more of them!
I'm possibly running a mini excavator for the first time soon and someone is trying to persuade me to make an offer on an ATV.  I'm also doing woodworking in the very shop two of my Sears shoplights and the Lithonia basket wraparound came from, as well as the Sylvania Design 50s and a few other lamps.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 30, 2014, 07:27:18 PM
Ah cool! I bet you are looking forward to running a mini excavator! :D

Today I decided to take down my 175W MV silver M-250R (the obnoxiuously loud beehive) and out up my 50W HPS Cooper OVC (nearly dead silent). The OVC has a 1982 Sylvania coated 50w HPS lamp. I took out the drop lens and put in an FCO glass lens. This will be my first FCO light (well, first retrofitted-to-FCO light lol) mounted in my room. The coated lamp helps diffuse the harsh glare from the HPS arctube, though it's still hard to look directly at the lamp.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 30, 2014, 09:26:24 PM
I am looking forward to that, and to eventually hopefully running a "real" one too! I might make a video of it and put it on my YT account...I'm andycflbulb there.
Yeah buzzy ballasts are obnoxious indoors for sure! Trust me, I know...for awhile I had a 400w MH ballast acting as a step-up transformer (it's multitap) and it was horrible on MSW inverter power!
I moved my potted plants inside today and am using the first Sears shoplight (the one with the GE Bonusline full power ballast) and a pair of GE pre-Ecolux Plant & Aquariums in there.  We'll see how it does for the winter.
Hopefully in one of the next packages from the M-400A relatives is the 1970s GE flip-number clock-radio (They're storing all the stuff out of my mom's house after she passed and slowly sending it to me).  Not much on FM dial here or anything on AM during the day but after dark you can hear all sorts of stuff on AM, especially with a good vintage radio like that! I can hear San Francisco, CA easily at night here.  I wonder how well the clock part will run on MSW inverter electricity, it will be it's first time running off-grid so we will see.  Hopefully the little motor won't hum obnoxiously all night when I'm running on inverter electricity!
Ideally I want to find a nice vintage tuner/amplifier! Some Lighting Gallery people have them too, I know nicksfans on LG and Joe_347v have them. 
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on October 01, 2014, 03:09:18 PM
Yeah i bet it was really loud on inverter electricity! Now I have the Cooper OVC installed and when I turn it on I get momentarily confused since I don't hear any obnoxiously loud buzzing lol. The OVC is very quiet, about as loud as a fluorescent choke, even quiter than some chokes (i know some chokes that are actually pretty loud)

Once the lamp is warmed up, the ballast quiets down to dead silent. Cooper bought out Westinghouse's fixture line around 1982 and kept all the same components and they've slowly been using fewer and fewer Westinghouse parts as designs improve. Currently, they use the same PC sockets as the Westinghouse lights and almost the same latch to open the fixture. The terminal blocks are the same too, except that Cooper switched to black plastic instead of white ceramic. The internal labels in my OVC are similar to that of the late Westinghouse fixtures. They're not the same style but have the same words. Like the terminal blocks had a sticker over them saying CAUTION THIS UNIT WIRED FOR 120V (or whatever the voltage was) and there's a sticker inside the reflector next to the socket saying RELAMP ONLY WITH 50W S-68 HIGH PRESSURE SODIUM LAMP. I don't think the newer Coopers have this but my 1990 OVC does. My OV-15 TuDor from 1980-1981 also has a tag but yellow paper instead of silver plastic.

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 01, 2014, 09:30:57 PM
That ballast starts off with a faint hum but gets louder when wired normally as it's 400w MH lamp warms up.  I have a Universal Therm-O-Matic 2XF40 that starts off like a hornet's nest, then quiets down after a few minutes to a soft hum, then gets this intermittent little ittzy buzz after awhile.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 02, 2014, 06:03:34 AM

that's really weird. Every HID I've ever had gets quieter when the lamp is fully warmed up. ??? Yeah I know what you mean about it changing from a hum to a IZZZ buz sound. I don't think it gets louder though, just a change in the pitch of the sound.  One interesting thing, I heard MV lamps will make a MH ballast run quieter than a MH lamp! MV lamps are also easier on MH ballasts than a MH lamp because mercs are easier to start and run at a slightly reduced voltage.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 02, 2014, 11:22:13 PM
I don't know on that one, I've "illegally" obtained lamps before like that but wouldn't condone it...basically don't blame me if you get caught and get in trouble LOL.
I went and did some woodshop today at the former US History teacher's house (The one the Sears shoplights and many F40s came from).  While there I got to climb around up in the attic above the shop. (There's stuff up there which will eventually be gotten rid of) Of course I was sort of hoping to find a NOS case of PowerTwists or a F40 preheater or AT LEAST another Sears light but nope.  All sorts of other things up there though.
Also scored some 12vDC CFLs from him, two of which I am now using.  One of them is 5000K too and pretty bright! He said they were all pretty dim (I expected mercury starved taking forever to warm up; he has a few that do that but that one is not).  They all striate at first though like F34T12 lamps which I think indicates krypton gas?
If you can't tell by that his place is off-grid too just like mine.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 03, 2014, 03:14:21 PM
Hmm well they're just going to get taken to the recycling center otherwise, so I think I'll grab them...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 03, 2014, 06:56:55 PM
I've even cannibalized the electronic ballasts out of dead spiral CFLs into other things...usually only the tube dies and the ballast is fine in my experience, as long as it wasn't dimmed or used in a really hot place.  I've never had one of those legendary CFL meltdowns happen in my house or anywhere I've witnessed, though I've seen the aftermath of it happening before, especially at someone's house where I swear almost every ceiling light was a recessed can...lots of hear buildup!
Usually from what I've been able to analyze, they're pretty much instant-start (except for older ones) with cathode heating.  I've admittedly tried them on dimmers and I've seen how they behave on severe voltage drops plenty of times.  When the arc will no longer strike they cathodes still glow...I've seen EOL ones do that and I think in that case it IS the ballast.  Anyway I think the cathodes act as the EOL sensing mechanism, when one blows it won't power up.  I had one die a few days ago (a 13w 2700K GE helical) that glowed bright blue at the ends and flickered after being turned off and on.  Then it went totally...I didn't save that one though since I broke it trying to remove it and didn't want to be around the mercury trying to save/cannibalize the electronics.  But I've done it multiple times before...
In your case they'd be cool with 4100K or 6500K lamps!
For "too dim" those 12vDC CFLs are pretty bright! I like that little 9w 5000K one a lot!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 03, 2014, 08:57:28 PM
I've never had a CFL fire either. They just eventually stay dark when the switch is flipped. I had an older square base GE from the mid-2000s go mercury starved though. I kept it. The ends are very black and when first switched on, the ends flash a hot blue-white color like an electric spark almost lol. I also remove CFLs that work if the plastic discolors too much. We DO take CFLs to be recycled as Lowes and HomeDepot have those CFL drop offs where it's basically like a book drop at a library. They don't accept linear fluorescents and I'm not paying to have them taken to the EcoDepot at the dump so I just stick them in the regular trash and they take them...

Yeah if the lamps are dead, I can buy whatever color temp i want. I'm not a fan of the /WW but all my PL adapters so far have been NOS and came with /WW lamps so I might as well use them up. I'd probably get 3500K PLs as replacements if they make them. Areas that I'd want 4100K or cooler I'd use linear fluorescents. I'll have to compare lumens. Typically 3500K has the highest lumens and I like the light from them for living space. They're warm-tone but not drab and yucky like oldschool /WW lamps are. Even the newer /WW or soft white tubes I'm not a fan of. If I want something that warm I'd use CFL or incandescent. Linear fluorescents that are that warm tone just seem odd to me lol. Like seeing a 6500K CFL. I'm not used to seeing them so when I see one in service it looks odd even though i prefer cooler color temps in general.

I'll go back there next wednesday and I'll bring a jacket to wrap the lamps in, though unfortunately it looks like it's going to hike back into the lower 70s next week (it's been in the upper 50s to mid 60s all week here with rain/clouds every day) so it's not really jacket weather, but I wouldn't raise any flags by having a jacket. I'll manage. It's not like I'm taking brand new lamps in the box. I'll be taking them out of a cardboard box marked BAD BULBS about 2ft long, a foot wide, and maybe about 9" tall. They do have newer bulbs stocked in there but they're crappy GreenLite CFLs lol. They have a number of nice old 90s PL adapters in use but they get replaced as the lamps EOL instead of them replacing the PL lamps themselves. They probably don't realize they can replace the lamps. They have a bunch of non-full power F40T12/RS wraps too. The kitchen got new T8 wraps but they still maintain the other T12s.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 03, 2014, 11:41:40 PM
Yeah it's cooling down here quite a bit. I was talking to someone in Santa Barbara, CA yesterday on the phone though and they've had no rain at all this year...major drought!
Sometime within the next few weeks I might get the opportunity to buy some new (preferably daylight) F20T12 lamps to preserve my May 1984 Westy silverender and June 1985 GE F20T12/CW.  Probably Ecolux F20T12/Ds or F20T12/C50s.  (I like that dim flickery /950!)
I've seen drop bins for CFLs in supermarkets and always laugh when I see incandescents in there!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 04, 2014, 08:45:33 AM
ahh yesh i heard about the drought.
We've had a relatively dry summer compared to what we usually have. This past week it's been drizzly out all week but no downpours. I personally prefer a nice downpour instead of a week of drizzle.

Ah get those tubes if you can! Definitley preserve that silverender! Yeah I dropped a MV lamp in one of those bins before lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 06, 2014, 06:37:59 PM
I decided to mount my 100W HPS light in my room instead of the 50W HPS. The 100W HPS light is my early 80s GE M-250R1 Chicago fixture, with the 70/90W S54 HPS ballast (runs 100W HPS lamps at either 70 or 90W). I find that 70W HPS lamps run okay in the fixture too when the ballast is set to the 70W tap. I noticed that the 100W lamp takes a little while to strike in the fixture, more so on the 70W tap. Joe Maurath told me that GE made special 70/90W HPS lamps, and that maybe that's what this fixture needs, but they're medium base. in the mean time, 100W HPS lamps will work fine, as the fixture is rated for S54 lamps, which are standard 100W HPS.

My brother's birthday party is this Sunday (his birthday is on Tuesday the 14th of this month) so that means I'm doing my Halloween Scare with my lights. I'll be using a F20BLB and a F40BLB in conjunction with some posters I made with fluorescent markers (meaning they glow under BLB light- SWEET!). Do you remember my 2x F20T12/TS 1X2 suface mount fixture with the wood trim? Well, I masked off the opal diffuser with yellow paper and made it into a sign using electrical tape for letters. Last year I used my LED street light as a sign. And I'll have some strobe lights and then those halloween string lights too. I'll have either an F8T5 or F15T8 fixture at the end as a guide light at the end of the scare along with some solar lights to outline the path through the yard at the end.

I will have my three 175W MV lights stuck in fence posts to see when I clean up. My OV-10IB,  my NOS 175W MV M-250R1, and my obnoxiously loud silver M-250R. I'll be using all coated lamps and they'll have PCs in them so they'll turn on when it gets dark. In fact, the entire set-up will be controlled by photocells! The three 175W MV lights will have their own PCs and the rest of the lights will be split on two circuits, so two PCs controlling the other lights and five PCs total. Actually, one of the 175W MV lights will be controlled by two PCs, its own PC and the PC controlling the circuit it is on. Whichever PC is more sensitive will win. I plan on drawing a diagram up and posting it in the gallery so stay tuned for the next day or two! ;)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 12, 2014, 01:00:26 AM
Oh cool! GE sure made some interesting stuff back in the day...
Nice, take pics of all those MVs lit at once!
I was recently at the school with the 34 watt WW and CW GE Watt-Misers of every post-EPACT generation and the bad ones have been replaced by GE Ecolux F34/CW/C41s, which seem CWX-ish.  One classroom that was someone's office had half of it relamped with post-'03 Sylvania F40/DSGN50 lamps though...neat!
And how about a whole apartment lit by preheat PL13s? Cool but I don't like those blinky preheat PLs amazingly enough.  Some were in those commercial-looking recessed cans...I will post pics.
Also saw some old Wide-Lite F-series floods recently...very cool indeed!
Also saw a whole school gym lit with MH highbays, a rare sight nowadays! It also had real wood floors...I really think that adds class!
Also had some insulators from the house in C broken by the postal service...AGH! Some are repairable it looks like, others are smithereens, and others are okay.  The box of pieces is sitting out in the garage awaiting further dealing-with.  But my collection here is growing at least!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 12, 2014, 10:46:10 AM
Sure, I'll take pics of the stuff set up. I set up most of the lighting last night. It rained saturday until about 3PM and remained cloudy and wet out all night so everything was wet and nasty when I put it up. Everything works too, which is nice. I will have two BLB set-ups too (F20 and F40)

 BTW, I got three of those reflector PLs and they all have working lamps! O_O.  (http://www.lighting-gallery.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-99360) Two are pretty loud so maybe they were a nuisance. The third is dead silent though so who knows... There are a couple more I think and if so I'll grab those too. They're from 1990, so pretty old for a PL adapter and they're very over-built too!

Yeah C41 is CWX. Same number of lumens and same CRI but the color isn't purplish. The WalMart near my relamped the entire store with GE 5000K T8s, replacing the cool white T8s. There were only a few cool whites burnt out so IMO they should have just spot relamped the dead ones with new CW lamps but all new WalMarts are 5000K now (which i prefer, but i just thought it was a waste of lamps).

My high school's gymnasium has a hardwood floor too. My middle school and elementary schools have rubber floors, which actually hurt more when you fall. Rubber burns your skin if you fall and slide on the floor. Lit by Mh lamps eh? Cool! Not too many left! In Cranston they replaced all the HID highbays in the gymnasiums district-wide with 6x F32T8 motion sensor fixtures. The gyms are much brighter now. If they used 6500K lamps it would be like being outside! Or maybe even 5000K.

You don't like PLs! I don't like them in "living space" since they start off dim but I'd like them in a hallway. My ideal house would have a basement with a hallway that goes from the bottom of the stairs and then ends at two doors. Straight takes you into the workshop/my collection. Left (or right) takes you into the laundry room. Then there would be a room off the laundry room for storage and stuff, with another door to my workshop just as a second means of egress. The hallway would have a drop ceiling with recessed cans and PL13 adapters. The laundry room would also have a drop ceiling and would have my 3X F32T8 parabolic troffer and a 2X F40/RS 1X4 drop dish opal troffer that I'll hopefully get some day. The storage room may or may not have a drop ceiling. Rooms with a drop ceiling will also be drywalled and have a (commerical style) tile floor. The workshop/my collection room will be unfinished and will have T12 preheat and rapid start shoplights suspended from hooks.

If I don't have the workshop area I would have a pole barn similar to John (dieselnut) on LG and have it in there. Then it would just be the laundry room and storage room and maybe a playroom for my future kids or whatever lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 12, 2014, 06:13:20 PM
That's pretty cool that they work!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 13, 2014, 09:45:45 AM
I'd like to find some nice bright energy saver lamps someday...I hear the new GE 60w HL ones are decently bright (I know HL35 is 5900 lumens :shock:).  Someone on LG was saying they really miss the now-banned GE F96T12/SP65...I've seen those, they're bright and a nice cool color!
I also know of a supermarket lit with a mix of 6500K and 3000K or 3500K F32T8s, it looks unique in there I think! I like the daylight effect in a store like that. I should have taken pics.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 13, 2014, 03:32:01 PM
5900 lumens is amazing for an ES lamp, even for a full wattage lamp! :o 75W Sylvania CWX lamps only produce 3872 lumens! Aren't all daylight lamps rather dim? I didn't know they ever made bright daylight lamps. In general it seems 3500K lamps are the brightest and 6500K lamps are the dimmest.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 13, 2014, 08:22:59 PM
I always thought it was more like 5000K was the dimmest but of course ironically that dim flickery /950 is my favorite color!
The old school /530 warm white lamps can be bright too, albeit with a rather IMO ugly color...for awhile I had a room lit with five F40WW GE Mainlighter lamps and it was REALLY bright in there! I ended up getting sick of the /WW and went with 4100K (both SP41 and CW) then finally to /950...by itself it looks great!
Ever notice grow-lux wide-spectrum lamps (namely GE F40PL/AQ Plant & Aquarium) flicker just like /950 does? Mine do but they're bright on the full power GE Bonusline ballast in the first Sears shoplight...that thing was my first vintage ballast/fixture and it has served me very faithfully, currently running 14 hours a day, every day, as a plant light.  Then I started finding all those GE Mainlighter lamps (Well I knew of them before that) and the Metalux/Gibson troffer fixtures with their Advance Kool-Koil and Universal Therm-O-Matic ballasts...at one point in time I was bringing home F40 lamps literally every day!
I'm thinking of documenting the stories of lamps/fixtures/ballasts I have in case some other interested person finds them someday in the future...I'm always amazed at how much this stuff has been through and wonder how much it's "seen" over the decades.  Many of my lamps/fixtures/ballasts are special to me because I remember seeing them long before they became mine. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 14, 2014, 05:01:28 PM
The 90CRI 5000K lamps are dim and flickery, not a fan of those. I love the 800 Series 5000K lamps though. Yeah the /WW lamps are pretty bright, I think that's why it was common for offices to have them (since 3500K wasn't really a big thing back then, nor was 5000K). Personally I would think offices would have daylight lamps since supposedly cooler tone light makes people more awake this more productive. I noticed a difference when I popped a /WW tube in my closet light. Even with the light on I rolled back to sleep lol. I only have /WW, /W (3500K), and /CW F20s though, so I couldn't test 5000K or daylight.

I had bought a GE plant & aquarium lamp before by mistake. I returned it. It was a nice pink color but that's not what I had wanted lol. I don't know a whole lot of history behind the lights in my collection. I know where most if not all were used just prior to me getting them but before that I don't know. I assume most of my lights were originally installed in the places i got them (with the exception of my late grandpa's fluorescents and my great-aunt's flourescents, which came from my great-grandpa's work). Those Western Electric industrial fixtures are pretty sweet too since they're quite unique. So far I have one out of the three F20s and none out of the four F40s.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 15, 2014, 09:29:58 AM
On many of mine I know where they were previously installed and saw them lit there even! Those Sears shoplights were even spot-relamped by me on various occasions before I got them too!
In a couple cases I know I'm the third owner of fixtures...that Lithonia "basket" wraparound is such a case.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 15, 2014, 09:59:41 PM
Someone just sent me some 30-odd year old B&W pics of my current house and I must say it's quite a shock! There's even a vintage TV and stereo system visible in one of them I might even post here! And there's a noticeable absence of fluorescent lights too!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 16, 2014, 05:59:37 AM
Oh wow that's pretty sweet! My high school has a picture of the campus back in the 60s(?) and it also looks quite different. If I saw old pictures of my house it would just be a bunch of trees lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 18, 2014, 06:14:04 PM
Yeah I really want pics of the outside, especially the front! My house has been built at literally ten different times so yeah, lots of evolution.
I'm super busy these days and find I'm having hardly any time to devote to this site...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 24, 2014, 03:21:32 PM
Got another one of the reflector PL adapters and a spare reflector. There were two loose reflectors in there so I grabbed one in case down the road I need a replacement, since I doubt I'll ever find one. The fourth adapter is pretty quiet. The original OSRAM lamp is EOL though and the lamp continuously flashed. So I'll need a new lamp for it. There are some NOS PL13 2700K lamps at the ReStore (ironically OSRAM lamps) so I can stock up on some the next time I make it there. The cash flow has been dry lately though. I'm still trying to get a job. >:( Once I get a job I'll see if I can get a car.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 24, 2014, 09:54:24 PM
Yeah a car would be a good idea...do you have your license or at least a permit yet? I'm old enough to be more or less fully driving (in the state of Alaska anyway) but have never even started.  Granted, I live in a place without roads/cars, but I spend lots of time in places that do so it's something I need.
I'm going on a trip this weekend so I'm going to try to get to a hardware store and buy some FS4 starters, a slimline plunger-side lampholder, some 75 watt slimlines, and some modern F20T12 lamps.  (All for various projects).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 25, 2014, 11:23:04 AM
I currently have a learner's permit. I have my road test November 18th and if I pass that, I can swing down to the DMV and get my license that day. If you don't have roads or cars where you live, do you guys just walk everywhere? Does your dad have a vehicle so you guys can travel into town or whatever? How far away from a town are you (even just a little village with a grocery store and a barber shop or something?) and is there any place nearby that's on-grid? Are there any stores that are off-grid? They must have like a tractor trailor truck engine running them lol.

Ahh good luck! Hopefully you can make out like a bandit. BTW, I found a place in the church where one of those PL reflectors is still in use. There's a pair of recessed cans outside on a canopy/over-hang over one of the exits. One has a new CFL reflector that starts off dim and pink and the other is a preheat PL13! So when it dies I guess I'll see it in the dead lamp bin lol. It's FULL of bugs/dirt and crap too but still works and doesn't start off dim. I'm thinking one of the reflector PLs came from the can with the new spiral reflector CFL. There's one more entrance that might have an overhang with recessed cans. I don't know...

That church has some LOA circline adapters in the boiler room too, installed in keyless sockets. Most of the place is spiral CFLs now though. There are also these big PL adapters with white bases and big PL lamps about the thickness of a T5 tube.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 28, 2014, 06:32:02 PM
I haven't even started, though people are telling me the rules of the road as they drive.
Here I walk everywhere though some people have ATVs. 
I'm about 70 miles straight as the crow flies from a "real" town (Sitka, AK, about 10,000 people which is totally on grid).  It's about a 45 minute floatplane ride from here or a 4-24 hour boat trip, depending on speed/type/weather/which way you take.  (The long way in bad weather).  I'm sorta in the marine "driving training" and do decently (better than many autopilots do at staying on course)...there's rules of the road there too I'm not totally memorized on yet but I've passed my "road test" LOL...a professional longtime captain friend even trusts my "driving" LOL. (with an 86' boat too).  I prefer boat trips since I'm currently accumulating documented seatime to get a captain's license.  (you have to have 1 year (365 days) since your 16th birthday). 
Also the two main boats I drive are 72' and 86'...
I bought some GE "HN" FS4 starters to get the homemade preheater closer to completion (It now runs 40w lamps). I priced out some GE Ecolux F20T2/C50s but decided not to buy any this trip.  ($11.99 is steep for a .50/F20-at-Restore person like me. 
Also have a GREAT (well not really) ballast replacement story: A 2ft T8 wrap on my boat went out.  Went to replace the Advance 'AmbiStar' electronic ballast with another commercial-quality Advance 120-277v one.  No worky! SO now I've exchanged it for a new one but haven't installed it yet...my dad probably will. It sorta lit but not really.  I miss the days of magnetic ballasts LOL...and it was running the original year-and-a-half-old lamps too!
It's an American Fluorescent fixture with crappy tombstone lampholders with the little green discs to tell you the lamp is installed correctly.  I can't figure out how to remove them to take the new leads all the way to the sockets so I have to splice them (I don't like wirenut connections on 600v OCV I might add)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 28, 2014, 07:31:09 PM
I also forgot to add the aforementioned fixture was actually installed by an electrician who grew up in the house I currently live in.  We might get to meet in person next month.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 29, 2014, 03:55:50 PM
Oh wow I guess you're really in a rual area! If you got that M-400A and mounted it off your house (probably just for display, as 250W plus 50W or whatever for ballast losses is a lot of unecessary stress on the inverter) some people might not even know what the heck it was lol. I admit, I take being on-grid for granted. I'm a boy scout so we often camp out in the woods and there's no electricity but I always enjoy coming hoem to my house with all of its amenities lol. On-grid, as long as you pay your bill on time every month, it doesn't really matter how much electricity you consume.

Ahh good ol' HN starters lol. I have some too, that came in GE packaging. Yeah you won't catch me spending 12 bucks on a F20T12 fluorescent lamp lol. Ugh, stupid electronic ballasts. if it's 2ft just get a pair of chokes and make it preheat or install a 2lamp TS ballast lol. Eh wirenuts don't bother me but on my fixtures I try to avoid that as much as possible. As for those rotating disc lampholders, if you remove the fixture, you sould see that the sockets snap onto the fixture housing and they can be popped out using a flathead screwdriver if you're careful. Interesting about the electrician installing it. Hope you guys have a good time.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 30, 2014, 10:40:24 AM
Yeah a 2000w inverter or a 2000w or 10000w generator would run it fine but yeah no need.  I have one 175w MV yardblaster and that's it...and it's like never used.
I know what you mean, I'm the same way. 
Yeah the yellow GE packaging? I like that better than the "new generation" packaging.  I wish they were metal-cased though although it won't matter inside a fixture that's supposed to be rapid start so you never see the starters anyway. 
I might break down and buy some anyway but not right now.  Interesting to know...I think I'll leave them spliced though so it eases future ballast changes. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 30, 2014, 04:17:56 PM
Yeah for me I'd want to be courteous to my neighbors too, since I have them on all sides but I'm thinking you don't need to worry about neighbors too much? If you have neighbors they're probably far enough away where light trespass wouldn't be a huge issue. My 70W PSMH deck fixture lights up my neighbors' houses better than it lights my own yard lol. It's pretty much useless, creating more glare than light. When I move out I plan to take the fixture with me and just put up a new incandescent fixture.

Yep, they had the old style yellow packaging (same for the Leviton Y-slot sockets being sold under GE) though at that time, GE was still using the old packaging for lamps and stuff too. It was a few years ago that I bought those HN starters. Yeah I prefer metal cased starters when the starters are exposed but it doesn't bother me in fixture like undercabinet lights with diffusers or when the starters are semi-hidden behind the lamps.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 30, 2014, 09:17:10 PM
Exactly.  My closest neighbor is a couple hundred feet away but there's lots of trees/bushes between us/them. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 31, 2014, 03:34:45 PM
Ah I see.  My house (with all the flags along the curbside) is surrounded by near-by houses with little-to-no trees/bushes. (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7665708,-71.5110223,3a,50.3y,218.39h,87.72t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s28V8IfRkv4_-9iS4PB0J0w!2e0?hl=en)

You can also see the backside of my house  from the next street over, as my neighbor who lived behind me (who built my house) owns a lot-and-a-half of land.  (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7661366,-71.5117744,3a,15y,58.49h,88.34t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1si6--8L8-JJhshiNlOuhR7Q!2e0?hl=en) You can see some of my traffic signs on the fence (which are no longer mounted, as they're tucked away in the shed). The streetview was from before the deck was exended. The spot where my light pole was is where the pole with the long whitish sign is (though it's on the extended portion, which comes away from my house another 6-8 feet).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 01, 2014, 08:15:46 PM
I tried finding the google streetview of the house I grew up in but no luck, that street isn't covered.
On a side note I noticed the Sylvania F96T12/CW/SS lamps in my Lithonia slimline fixture are getting some mercury spots on the phosphor, typical of older energy saver T12 lamps.  They never quit flickering either! (In an unheated room at 45 degrees)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 01, 2014, 09:28:18 PM
Ahh streetview had just about covered every road around here. The did a couple of freeways this past summer between june september of 2014. Are those mercury spots the typical "freckles" that appear? I guess they have quite high hours on them? My Econ-o-watt F34/CWs in the Cooper turret have no signs of wear, but they have guards at both ends and probably have low hours anyways. My fixtures aren't used often enough to show signs of wear lol. Only IS lamps end up showing wear and die. My 1973 Thermomatic shoplight has two GE C41 lamps and they have no blackening on the ends at all and they've been up at least two years now, maybe three. I just don't use my lights often enough lol. (plus the ballast lags with starting them so maybe that's even easier on the lamps than a normal RS ballast).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 02, 2014, 12:53:13 PM
Yeah the house had streets on both sides, one used to be StreetView'ed but I guess it isn't anymore for some reason (I got there once before).  Even so, if it was current-ish it could be a shock seeing what that house looks like now compared to how I remember it.  Part of me never wants to drive by again but curiousity will probably get the better of me someday. The neighbor's house across the street has a streetview though from the opposite side, one from 2008 and one from 2012 where you can see remodeling progress happen. 
Yep, the "freckles" I think. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 02, 2014, 03:10:39 PM
 here's my old house. The one me, my mom, and my dad lived in before my brother was born and we moved to my current house.  (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7702127,-71.4565769,3a,34.1y,200.75h,86.14t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s7tlcV10VwEs_Tf9rtx4-1g!2e0?hl=en) We sold the house in 2001 or 2002 and lived in my grandpa's appartment building until our new house was finished. It was red when we lived in it, then they painted it blue, and now it's a tan color (but that's after the streetview was taken). The house was for sale a few years ago and we went to the open house so we could see the house again. Boy it was quite the throwback! I was like three years old the last time I had been in there! A few things had been done, such as the patio being turned into a finished porch (though they kept the motion sensor floodlight up on the side of the house where they built the closed-in porch lol). They also added four curved basket F40/RS wrap lights in the basement in addition to the keyless sockets down there. I had asked my dad if we had put them up when we lived there and he said no, there was only the incandescent lights. There were also F32T8 cheesy plug-in shoplights in the garage, which were also added. The only light we had out there was the garage opener's light bulbs. The hatch to get into the attic was in the garage too. The garage was unfinished, so there was a door in the wall (about 30"X30") where you climbed through to get into the attic. We always kept a padlock on it because my dad was paranoid about someone breaking into the garage and using the attic hatch to get into the house lol. There used to be a bunch of trees at our old house but they all got diseased so we had to cut all of them down except for one in the backyard, but it looks like that one had to go too. Ironically, the pole in front of my old house is also on the left property line (when looking from the street) and is a 100W HPS M-250R2 on a tapered elliptical arm with a transformer on the pole.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 02, 2014, 04:57:40 PM
That's a pretty nice house; was it just too small for you guys? What year was it built? What year did you see it again? (Did you tell the realty people you guys used to live there?)
I'd love to see the house I spent most of my childhood again (especially the inside) but it's not as likely considering I don't live in the same town.  Do you remember living there very well?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 02, 2014, 05:31:12 PM
Yeah it was a nice house but yeah, way too small. My dad bought it when he moved out of my grandparents' house in his 20s before he met my mom. It was a good starting-family house though. I checked online and it was built in 1959. It has baseboard heat. No central air conditioning.

According to Zillow.com, the house was sold on 5/51992 (to my dad) for $110,000.  Then on 12/30/02 we sold it for $210,000 (the extra $100,000 from selling it allowed us to afford the house we live in now). The most recent sale record they have is 8/1/11, selling for $175,000. I think it was sold again in 2013, which is when we saw it. Yep, we told them that we lived there before and were just reminiscing. The lady said that she was glad we were there because we verify if there were any major issues with the house that the people who were selling it didn't mention. There wasn't any, other than it just being too small.

The house we live in now was completed in spring of 2003, but the build date of the house is 2001 in public records since that was when they did the rough framing and septic and foundation. The contractor (who lives behind me actually!) got sick and construction got delayed about a year so we ended up staying in one of my grandpa's four appartments for about a year. In the records, the sale date of my house when we bought it was 5/19/03 for $257,000.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 02, 2014, 09:20:14 PM
Yeah it looks typical 50s-60s from the outside.  Did you guys do any major work?
The house I spent my childhood in was built in 1988 by a county engineer (hence I think some of the features I bet you'd have to get a code variance for like a 37% grade driveway, no bathroom on the primary floor, and some REALLY steep, narrow stairs going up to the loft (4th floor).  I googled something else in that town when we were trying to sell it and listings for that house came up...I think Zillow said it was sold April 1994 (to my mother) then we sold it for $272,000 (It was a fixer upper by then and needed work) on April 11, 2014.  Within a week of being listed it was in escow!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 02, 2014, 10:07:41 PM
Not that I know of...

Oh wow that house sounds like a bit of a mess. My dad's parents' house (late grandpa, grandma, and aunt's house) had no bathroom on the main floor, just upstairs, so in the 70s, my grandpa and great-grandpa turned the screened-in porch into a furnished room, complete with those crank windows and wood paneling walls lol. They included a small (and when I say small, I mean TINY!, like the size of a port-a-john) bathroom with a toilet and sink. The small bathroom and the family room, as it's called, have a drop ceiling but the family room has no ceiling lights. There's only a wall-mounted scone light, in place of where the old light was next to the old doorway when it was a screened-in porch. The only electrical wiring they did was outlets and a couple floodlights for the yard (and a recessed square fixture for the mini-bathroom) all of which was wired from the basement and up. (no basement under the old porch, so they had fed it through one of the basement windows, which was blocked by the porch and took out the window and boarded it up with plywood i think.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 04, 2014, 09:37:22 PM
It wasn't that bad actually.  I would attach photos but can't figure out how LOL.
It needed work by the time we sold it but will be a nice remodel for someone.
Jalousise windows and wood fake plank plywood paneling! Very 70s! Does that house have any fluorescents?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 04, 2014, 10:49:21 PM
To attach a pic inthe forum, it has to be posted either in the gallery or on another site like the LG, Flickr, etc and then linked here. To embed a picture in the gallery here, copy the url and stick it in (http://<url here>) brackets.

Just the family room is like that. There's a plaque saying "BUILT BY JOHN KERSHAW - 1973" (my great-grandpa, who was actually my dad's mom's step-dad, as her dad died of skin cancer when she was around my age and my great-grandma remarried. She outlived her second husband too, lost to Alzimheir's around 2000. She died in 2012 at 96 years old and my great-aunt lives in her house now, the one who I change out the outlets for to three-prong)

Rest of my grandparents' house is from a really long time ago, not 70s like the family room. Ungrounded outlets. It's a colonial style house. The only fluorescents are the Western Electric F40s in the long 3-car tunnel-like garage, the F14/TS strip over the kitechen sink above a cut section of troffer diffuser, and two fluorescents in the basement, the 3X F20 halfpiper and F90T17 louvered fixture.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 06, 2014, 08:29:30 PM
Yeah there's so many vintage fluorescents in your family!
I mounted a nice old (draftsman? photography? lamp above the desk in the home office, with a 6500K 13w spiral CFL. Quite a bit bluer than the GE Reveal incandescent I had in there at first!  I might post a pic or two....
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 09, 2014, 11:01:11 AM
Guess what? I got one of those vaportight housings from the camp i go to during the summer! They were still in the pile, so at night this weekend (we were camping there) my scoutmaster and I took a lens and two top housings and put them in the bed of my dad's truck (which has a bed cover over it). I took two housings since none had all six latches so I took two so I could transfer the latches over to one and pick the best one. It's just the plastic housing though, no fixture. They really did scrap the fixtures but left the plastic casings. So I'll be on the lookout for a 2-lamp 4ft strip light to stick in the vaporproof case. The casing has two threads connected in the top that the strip screws onto.

I need to scrub them clean now and then will eventually get a strip fixture for it.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 09, 2014, 09:42:45 PM
Oh nice find then! Just keep checking ReStore and you'll probably find a 2XF40 or 2XF32T8 strip sooner or later.
At first I thought you were describing incandescent vaportights and thought...wait...those have GLASS covers! Then you mentioned 4' strips and I caught on.
There's a pic in my gallery on LG of what is now much better than the vaportights you buy at Home Depot...a circa 1940 solid brass housing/cage.  It's been through a lot: a fire, several days underwater, reckless painters, and my Dad and/or an electrician that actually grew up in my current house restoring it. (I'm glad they did!) Socket assembly might be more modern though...it's something like "Kulka Electrical MFG. Co. Inc.  http://www.lighting-gallery.net/gallery/displayimage.php?album=2350&pos=0&pid=98659
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 10, 2014, 04:37:07 PM
Well, turns out the diffuser I grabbed was for another style vaportight that they had laying around. I guess karma got me for just taking them lol. I'll hang onto the diffuser as long as it doesn't get in the way (I don't expect it to). I had scrubbed everything down, brought it inside, snapped the latches into the top housing, put the diffuser on one of the housings and: it's 2" longer than the top housing!!! I never thought to see i it was the right fit, assuming they had bought all the fixtures at once and they were all the same size. Apparently not!

So, that being said, I have to order two new diffusers (i decided to keep both vaportight housings and get two diffusers and buy six new latches. I'll keep the housings in the shed and when I get a pair of strips I'll stick them in).

I asked  here  (http://www.plasticsforlighting.biz/product/curled-2/) for a quote on two diffusers. They repsonded and said they're $19 each plus shipping. Sounds pretty reasonable. I also asked  This place  (http://www.bergeninc.com/lighting-vapor.aspx) for a quote on two diffusers and six latches. The white plastic latches on the PDF on that page I linked are EXACTLY like the ones on the housings I have and the demensions appear almost identical, so I suspect mine are just an older generation of that housing (maybe not that manufacturer, but I'm sure more than one manufacturer uses the same mold). I also needed to get a pair of plugs for the ends of the fixtures, since the originals were all cracked and broken. fortunately one was intact enough to read the part number, which lead me to  this site,  (http://www.caplugs.com/docpages.aspx?pagename=requestsamples) where I explained my situation and asked for four free samples of the part number (since they only sell in 1000 or 5000 packs).

So We'll see. All vaportight fluorescent fixtures are is a fiberglass upper housing and an acrylic diffuser with a strip light mounted inside. The upper housings have two brass threads (one at each end) and the strip light just goes on with two nuts after the fiberglass housing is screwed into the ceiling. You can suspend them with special kits but mine were originally surface mounted and have holes board through the tops where the romex clamps screwed on (they drilled their own holes on top as opposed to using the KOs on the ends, so really they weren't vaportight in their application but they were used in a sheltered location anyways).

I should be able to get the KO covers for the ends and the latches should be cheap enough where I can buy those but I might have to wait on the diffusers. I'll see what the second company gives me for a price on the diffusers and see what's cheaper. $19 each isn't bad but they're 4ft long so I'd imagine shipping is probably just as much and unless they can combine shipping, I'm looking at 80 bucks (20 for one diffuser [times 2] and 20 to ship one diffuser [times 2]) and that's way out of budget for me. If it was free shipping I'd be all over those things. If they can't combine shipping I'll just get one diffuser and buy the second at another time down the road, since I don't need the diffusers in the near future. I've always wanted a vaportight fluorescent though, since I've grown up seeing them at pretty much any camp I've gone to in Boy Scouts (well, major camps where you either stay overnight for a week or day camps and some bigger camps that have mess halls [cafeterias]).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 10, 2014, 10:34:01 PM
I have a pair that are nice thick metal and would have originally had prismatic-12 diffusers like you usually see on troffers and wraparounds.  They were already missing those and the ballast channel covers by the time I got them and had perfect-looking October 1980 .80 amp Advance Kool-Koil post-PCB ballasts that didn't work sadly.   There's pics in my gallery on LG. http://www.lighting-gallery.net/gallery/displayimage.php?album=2349&pos=5&pid=86927

and


http://www.lighting-gallery.net/gallery/displayimage.php?album=2350&pos=12&pid=86932
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 11, 2014, 10:53:15 AM
Oh wow, never seen vaportights quite like that before. Mine are just the classic fiberglass & cryic enclosure that you mount a standard 2-lamp F40/RS (or F32T8) strip inside.

BTW, the people who gave me the $19/diffuser quote also gave me a shipping quote. Shipping is $30 and they can put up to four diffusers in the box, so it's $30 shipping for one or two diffusers. So If I get two, I save 30 bucks. So for two diffusers, I'd spend about $70 with shipping. Kind of a lot of money, but I'm waiting to see what the other comapny says. For the other company, I'm definitely getting the six latches from them since I can't find them elsewhere. I'll get the diffusers from whoever is cheaper. I'll probably buy the two diffusers with Chrismas money, since I have no other way of getting that kind of cash. Finding a job hasn't turned out well so far. :( I don't think the latches will be that much. Hopefully no more than a couple bucks a piece. They're just small plastic latches, so they should be like 50 cents each IMO but I find that replacement parts tend to be overpriced.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 12, 2014, 12:14:50 PM
They always are.  The one I hate losing is the little "keeper" thing that holds the channel cover on most any Lithonia striplight. 
I like those 2XF40 and 2XF96 strips, though I know a lot of people find them boring.  In general I like fixtures where the lamps are exposed (shoplights, striplights, and of course turrets! (don't have a turret yet though). 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 13, 2014, 08:33:05 PM
Little keeper things? Do you mean those quart-turn clips? I dislike those in general. Seems like a cheesy way of holding the channel on. I prefer wingnuts (though those are really easy to loose) or those spring-loaded clips that you pull and turn 90-degrees.

I don't really like strip lights. It's not because their boring though. It's because they're so utilitarian looking with all the KOs and slots and holes. I like older strips that have a cleaner appearance. IMO, modern strip lights only serve as good frankenfixtures lol (to use to make other fixtures, like vaportights, sign backlighting, etc). When strips are surface mounted to a finished ceiling I think they're best with a regular channel cover but whe strips are suspended I think they look much better with a reflector, though my grandpa has a bunch of slimline strips with no reflectors. The spraybooth room has the lights surface-mounted though (and has surface-mount conduit too since it's a concrete ceiling IIRC)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 13, 2014, 09:21:18 PM
Yeah those little 90 degree turn clips.  I ignore all the slots, knockouts, etc. though they sure do have a lot of them! I like ceiling mounted strips.  I like the 2X ones the best over the 1X ones but both are neat.  My school has some half-reflector, half-channel-cover Lithonia strips wall-mounted in the main hallway of the '84 wing.  One I saw even has a handwritten UL tag (volts and amps) like on my Lithonia 2XF96.  Someday if they come down I'd take at least one for sure, given the opportunity of course. 
I know of a disconnected 2XF40 strip in someone's falling-down shed that has a pair of F40CW Westy blackender lamps and the little "wings" on the endplates like your 1973 shoplight, though it has a standard strip channel cover.  I'm going to try to get it. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 14, 2014, 03:47:10 PM
I like both the single and double lamp strips too but prefer the doubles except for the shorter lamps. For under 4ft, I prefer single lamp. 4ft+ I can go either way. Ever seen a more-than-two-lamp strip? Those 4-lamp 8ft strips Darren has are really cool. Cooper Metalux still makes four lamp strips too as far as I know. Wings? Do you mean wingnuts?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 14, 2014, 06:24:18 PM
BTW, Andy, do your vaportights look  like this?  (http://www.lithonia.com/commercial/vdc-vds.html#.VGaO1PnF_Z1) If so, they're actually rough-service lights, not vaportights, which makes sense since they're metal.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 14, 2014, 10:29:29 PM
I think a single lamp 8ft slimline would be really cool. Yeah those lights Darren has are really cool!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 14, 2014, 10:49:18 PM
I've actually never seen a single lamp 8ft slimline or HO in person. The longest single lamp fixture I've seen was 6ft. I've never seen a two-lamp F30T12 either nor have I seen any F48T12 slimline fixture (though I've seen F48T12/HO).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 16, 2014, 02:15:15 PM
Neither have I, at least that I can think of. 
I think if you save that 8ft HO from your grandpa's shop you should make a point of taking a slimline too if he sells the place.  You'll be glad you did.  I'm glad I inquired about mine, and I have been enjoying it ever since.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 16, 2014, 04:17:50 PM
Hopefully he holds onto the place long enough for me to save an 8ft HO (I'll need to be in my own place, which might not be for another 10 years). Maybe I'd get a slimline. I'd rather have an HO though since they're more interesting IMO. I wouldn't mind a slimline though. Maybe even get a vaportight enclosure for it to make it more interesting. ;D My biggest thing with the 8ft fixtures though, is that I don't have any rooms in my house where an 8ft fixture would look normal lol. Sure, they'd fit in most rooms in my house (albeit barely) but they'd look very unnatural in the rooms since the rooms where I coudl put them (garage, laundry room, utility room) are small and a 4ft fixture is plenty. Garage is the best bet and my dad said no more fixtures out there after all the holes we had to drill to find studs above the drywall lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 16, 2014, 06:00:19 PM
I know what you mean about them being unnaturally long.  I was just looking today and I could fit two 8ft slimlines end-to-end in my entryway but it would look strange for sure.  But hey, it'd be bright compared to two 13w 5000K spiral CFLs.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 16, 2014, 07:47:47 PM
Ah I don't have an entryway since I live in a raised ranch. With a raised ranch, the set up is like the pic below. The front door is on a landing between two sets of stairs. One set going up to the "living space" and the other going down into the (typically finished) basement.

We have a five-lamp chandelier over out staircase that we pretty much never use (good thing because I don't know how the heck we're supposed to change the lamps when they burn out lol). It has all five original lamps to the house.

(http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/d6/d4/ed/d6d4ed7b966627c66dd277f81522a940.jpg)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 17, 2014, 12:01:49 AM
I've been in houses like that before. 
I was given another pre-1992 GE F20T12/CW in a LOA resistive ballasted fixture.  The fixture doesn't work but the (well used) lamp works fine in the Lithonia 2XF20T12 striplight I have, alongside an identical lamp.  This one needs cleaning and a posting on LG for dating though, but not tonight.  I also was given a 22w circline electronic Keystone ballast (haven't tested yet), and a 22w lamp with such.  I can't say what the color is for sure...slightly warmer than 4100K but cooler than 3500K I think.  I like it, it's much brighter than the 22w halophosphate cool white I had in my bedroom ceiling light's GE "Circlite 75" adapter before and the CRI is better.  I will leave it there for now.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on November 17, 2014, 09:41:52 AM
BTW, Andy, do your vaportights look  like this?  (http://www.lithonia.com/commercial/vdc-vds.html#.VGaO1PnF_Z1) If so, they're actually rough-service lights, not vaportights, which makes sense since they're metal.
Ahh so these are a Lithonia product, I've seen single lamp versions of these used occasionally on the TTC subway and I've been wondering who the heck made them lol.  


Ah I don't have an entryway since I live in a raised ranch. With a raised ranch, the set up is like the pic below. The front door is on a landing between two sets of stairs. One set going up to the "living space" and the other going down into the (typically finished) basement.

We have a five-lamp chandelier over out staircase that we pretty much never use (good thing because I don't know how the heck we're supposed to change the lamps when they burn out lol). It has all five original lamps to the house.

Interesting, that layout reminds me of those split level houses that were common back in the 1970s over here. My house is sorta like a split level since the den is halfway between the first and second floors. Technically it's over the garage lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 17, 2014, 09:58:44 PM
@ Andy; Hmm if you bust the LOA apart, I think the two chokes are regular 14-20W chokes that can be used to run shorter lamps on preheat unless that's what failed. That color temperature sounds interesting. Smaller manufacturers probably mix leftover phosphors together and their "friday afternoon" lamps have odd color temperatures and such and aren't as uniform as their lamps normally are.

@ Joe; Maybe there are other manufacturers who make/made this fixture at one point or another but yeah, I've seen these before too, though older F40/RS ones with yellowed lenses anda greenish color to the lamps (and with loads of dead bugs too!)

My middle school from 1970 is a split level building. It's two floors with a tiny 3rd floor above the library with a few rooms. The 3rd floor had a balcony that overlooked the library, so the library technically didn't have a ceiling over most of the center. That third floor was "off limits" to 99% of the students though. I think the special needs rooms were located up there. The gymnasium, main offices, and auditorium were on the second floor of the lower half of the split level (at ground level from the front of the building and on the second floor from the back entrance). Below the gym and offices is the cafeteria and the music rooms. There's also a bomb shelter that is repurposed as a stockroom. The cafeteria is at ground level at the back entrance and below the ground from the front of the building.

Then on the higher half of the split level, the science and "unified arts" classes were on the lower level, which was at ground level from the rear and underground from the front. The upstairs had all the "core classes" and the library. The lower level of the higher side of th split level also had all the utilities (furnace, circuitbreakers, janitor lounge, etc).  Here's a shot of the school from above.  (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7750327,-71.476844,143m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en)   You can see how the land is sloped, burying the front half of the lower level.  (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.774907,-71.4759177,3a,65.2y,283.53h,83.06t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sedk1k3TDa6naWveq3Aw2Kg!2e0?hl=en)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 17, 2014, 10:10:37 PM
It's a resistive-ballasted thing like the GE "BrightStick".  Maybe.  I sure like the color though.  I'd initially hoped/suspected it was a Daylight or 5000K lamp but I like this color too. 
Joe, I've seen 70s houses like what you describe.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 19, 2014, 07:02:33 AM
Oh so it's a newer LOA? I heard those are even worse than the older ones, though the older ones are known for overheating and melkted at the ends where the chokes and capacitors are. :o
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 19, 2014, 05:05:30 PM
BTW, those plugs for the conduit holes on the ends of my vaportight enclosures came in this past weekend. Free of charge too! I have a quote for the diffusers, now just waiting for a reply on the latches.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 19, 2014, 09:32:44 PM
Now you're thinking LOA shoplights I think. Those have been known for that though.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 19, 2014, 10:01:54 PM
I honestly have no clue what you're talking about lol. I've heard of a GE brightstick but don't know what it is.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 20, 2014, 11:52:22 AM
It's a disposable 2ft fixture, using a resistive WIRE as the (very inefficent) ballast.  Trent (themaritimeman) was saying the very underdriven F20T12 pulls like 37 watts from the wall!  :o
Also the lamp isn't supposed to be "replaceable" either, though with some ingenuity and probably warranty-voiding it can be done.
The BrightStick came in a warm white, blacklight, and Plant & Aquarium version.  I think my LOA version might have a choke, though.  Nonetheless I'll probably chuck it after saving the power cord, and I'm using the pre-1992 GE F20T12/CW it came with in a Lithonia 2XF20T12 strip.  I'll clean it up (it's dusty) and post it this weekend for dating ID.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 20, 2014, 05:30:07 PM
Ah they sound like very poor fixtures. I'm guessing they're very cheap and that's why they sell?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 20, 2014, 08:36:17 PM
Of course!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on November 21, 2014, 12:04:45 PM
I have a GE brightstick lying around somewhere. Even though it used a cheesy resistive ballast and draws 34+w, it lasted pretty long. Mine lasted for 7 1/2 years in daily use (2-3 hours per day). It still sorta works now but it's on it's way out as it'll take 5 or more minutes for it to preheat and start up.

I remember they sold for 15-20 bucks back when they still sold them. So not much cheaper than your typical F20 trigger start strip which sells for 25 bucks here.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 21, 2014, 02:21:21 PM
Yeah if  I was making lighting choices back in the 90s I would have undoubtedly chosen a F20/TS strip or a real magnetic ballasted 4' shoplight over one of those LOA things.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 21, 2014, 02:47:32 PM
Hmm the fact that they were almost just as expensive dazzles me. I'm assuming these things are plastic too?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 21, 2014, 03:26:12 PM
Oh yeah, they're plastic.  I'll take a metal striplight or suspended industrial shoplight any day!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 22, 2014, 09:16:47 PM
I tested that thing last night after scrapping the plastic body of the fixture, with a crappy generic F15T8/CW and the thing started smoking instantly.  So I think something in there is toast.  Mine had a choke, unlike GE's version, an electronic LOA-shoplight-style starter board and a capacitor too.  I will post pics. 
I hate 3 phase and all it's different combos.  I was helping someone wire in a used generator the previous owner had wired for 3 phase and it had already taken multiple electrician-type people before us to get us that far.  It's successfully wired for single phase 120v/240v now but the output is like 103v instead of 120v.  Any idea why? (besides engine speed, we tried adjusting RPM).  I should ask Darren this.  Not that it really matters, just seems strange. 
I'm also am AM-radio "DX'er" and also do some one FM.  My area is quire rural and has one NPR radio station serving the area, that's it on FM *or so I thought, will get to that later*.  They're uniqie though, not many public radio stations play stuff like Danzing's "Mother", Skillet's "Hero", Breaking Benjamin's "Breath", gangster rap, or 60s-70s rock music at all.  They also play plenty of jazz/classical/etc. though, as well as country. 
Anyway I discovered I can (just barely) hear an FM public radio station from a town (Petersburg, AK) probably easily a hundred miles and some mountains away.  Their main advertised frequency is 100.9 MHz but I swear it was elsewhere on the dial I heard it, somewhere around 92-ish.  My dad had claimed he knew of cases of hearing that radio station around here but I had suspected that to be confused with a now-gone-silent Christian AM radio station you indeed could hear just barely on their daytime power (but covered up in "splatter" from others at night). But I guess it's true, this one is on FM.  I can only hear it in one little corner of my bedroom (where my head rests actually) with a Sony headset radio with meh reception, I now want to try something a bit...ahem...better...now.  I think it may be a weather/atmosphere related thing though, I'm trying again tonight and definately on some night that isn't cloudy.  (Which was when I heard it). 
I can hear San Francisco, CA on AM on most nights after dark too, as well as Portland and Seattle. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 23, 2014, 04:58:45 PM
Hmm no idea. I don't know anything about motors/engines. As for three-phase wiring, you can run a 120V appliance on 208V 3ph by hooking the hot wire up to one of the three phases and then running a neutral wire or connecting the applicance's neutral to ground. They did that at Seekonk Speedway with some sportslighters they added. The 400W MV cobraheads are all 208V 3ph and the sportslighters were 120V (odd, since I'd picture them being 480V, given the huge amount typically used at a sports center). Anyway, they connected the sportslighters't hots to one of the three phases and connected the neutral to ground (I think literally connecting it to a wire running into the ground). Whatever they did was done by an electrican though so it's safe, but I don't know every detail of how they did it.

Interesting that you can pick up AM signals from that far away. I've never listened to AM radio (aside from my grandpa's talk radio in his car, but even he now uses FM since the station he listens to also has an FM branch instead of AM. Am radio is "dead" here. I guess it's only advantage would be in your situation, when FM radio signals don't or barely come in.

BTW, I decided to mount a light in the backyard finally! My grandpa has been taking forever trying to get me the new pole so I just screwed the 24" mounting bracket that had been used on the old pole right into the wood scraps I added to the deck post. It holds well but the light likes to "bounce" up and down (no motion where the bracket bolts to the wood, but the light at the end of the mast bounces). And it swings side-to-side too. If it swings to much side-to-side, it could snap but it would take hurricane-force winds to do that. Not something I have to be overly concerned about. I'm thinking of swapping the glass refractor out for a plastic one to see how that goes though. I wonder how my new set up would hold up with my 320W PSMH M-400A2 mounted on it. That giant is probably around 40 pounds! Easier to install than the M-250R was though since it's a Powr/Door so the ballast can be off when it's installed as well as the glass refractor. The M-400A2 would be extremely BRRRRIGHT! I think around the brightness of a 400W probe start MH. Definitely brighter than a 400W merc. Outdoors is the only place I feel safe running my M-400A2 anyways lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 23, 2014, 08:20:38 PM
Can you draw a diagram of this? 3 phase anything goes right over my head...
Yeah it's advantageous here...since there's one local FM station and the one other I just discovered that barely comes in.  Nothing shows up on AM at my house during the day with any radio I have, only after dark.  But we had a setup on a boat that had KILLER reception for a rural area, even during the day! (same thing for FM-stereo). 
The one NPR station here does not broadcast in stereo (only mono) but whatever audio processing they use gives a unique, clean, crisp sound on mono with music.  I doubt the other one I just found does stereo (a lot of NPR stations here don't) but even if it did it comes in so weakly a tuner would never switch into the stereo mode, much less do that annoying back-and-forth stereo-mono static-quiet transition.  (Some radios/tuners are more pronouned with this than others)
(As you can tell, radio is another interest of mine)
You need a 400w HPS in your yard! LOL
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 23, 2014, 10:09:30 PM
With three phase, there are three wires, all hots. The device (light fixture or example) is connected between two of the wires. Doesn't matter which ones as far as I know. Any two of the three wires gives you your 208V. There's no neutral involved in 208 3ph. However, if you run a neutral and connect your light fixture to the neutral and one of the three hots, you'll get 120V. Not sure how that happens but it just does.

A special transformer is used for 208V 3ph, it's a bank of three transformers like  this.  (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.779164,-71.4772277,3a,15y,258.46h,96.95t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sy6jNveAhvUgf4ygEMx9vNw!2e0?hl=en)


Hmm interesting stuff on the radio. I get a lot of stations since I live in a pretty populated area (RI is the most densly-populated state with a population of 1.052 million and an area of 1,212 sq miles).

Providence County (the most populated county in RI, where I live) has 628,600 people and is 436 sq miles in area. The population of th entire state of Alaska is 735,132 with an area of 663,300 miles! So almost the entire population of AK could fit comfortably into 435 square miles! Imagine that? :o ;D

LOL I have a 400W HPS ballast but it's like 40 pounds and is currently used as a counterweight for my bedroom light pole display. If it was in a fixture I don't think I'd be able to lift the fixture lol. I'd have to install the fixture on a metal pole and then have the pole lifted into palce with a crane (that's how metal poles are installed anyways, but I'd make sure to install the fixture on the pole ahead of time lol. If the ballast goes bad, just do a rednect fix and bypass the ballast and install a 105W mogul based CFL in the fixture lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 24, 2014, 09:30:47 PM
Where I lived in CA was decently populated too, lots of stations.  Here's all the radio stations you could supposedly hear from where I lived.  http://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/locate?select=city&city=Atascadero&state=CA&band=Both&is_lic=Y&is_cp=Y&is_unl=Y&is_fl=Y&is_fx=Y&is_fb=Y&format=&dx=2&radius=&freq=&sort=freq&sid=

KGO-AM (810 MHz) and KNBR-AM (680MHz) are both listenable here at night, multiple states away, provided you aren't too close to a CFL...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 24, 2014, 10:31:32 PM
Interesting site.  Here's the stations that are with my zip code. (http://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/locate?select=city&city=02921&state=RI&x=0&y=0)

I usually listen to 94.1 FM.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 24, 2014, 11:20:14 PM
Yeah you have like 63 "distant" stations.  I moved that to "fringe" and it jumped to over 100.  That's more than where I lived in CA! (and still visit sometimes). 
Here's what my dial officially looks like here, but I can say there's a lot more on AM at night, none of the aforementioned during the day, and that one other FM one, whose parent station is KFSK-FM of Petersburg, AK. 
http://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/locate?select=city&city=Port+Alexander&state=AK&band=Both&is_lic=Y&is_cp=Y&is_unl=Y&is_fl=Y&is_fx=Y&is_fb=Y&format=&dx=2&radius=&freq=&sort=freq&sid=
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 25, 2014, 02:52:36 PM
Wow not much out there! I guess that's where iTunes and CDs come in handy lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 30, 2014, 06:54:21 PM
As do SiriusXM, music channels on DirecTV, and Pandora!
I was talking to someone and might be scoring a vintage stereo tuner/amp as a result...we'll see. 
I went to a junk store last week and got a NOS Philips FC8T9/DX, complete with sleeve.  (Are daylight circlines rare?), a Sylvania/GTE F15T8/BLB, also NOS and complete with sleeve,  and two generations of Sylvania 60w bug lights, complete with packages.  Stuff I passed up: switches/receptacles/faceplates, a Sylvania F30T12/CW with sleeve, a pair of rainbow *yes, really!* F40s, some low-wattage Sylvania HPS lamps still in their boxes (don't remember what wattage), A GE Grow & Show lamp still in box, a couple clear A19s, that sort of thing.  Also the person I went with got some christmas lights, too.  Another classic case of great music playing in secondhand/reuseit stores too. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 30, 2014, 07:07:54 PM
Hmm not sure. Circlines are rare here. I've only ever seen those LOA adapters, which typically have CW or WW lamps. Never seen any other color temperature for circline. Personally, I'm not a big circline fan. They're cool but I'm just not into them. I don't love u-bends but I guess they're alright... Don't like those newer 2ft long PL lamps found in troffers though. I like linear lamps best and I like PLs for recessed cans.

rainbow F40s? :o Never seen such a thing! Were the HPS medium or mogul base? I strung my Christmas lights today. Nice and warm here today, in the 50s. Didn't need to wear a jacket.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 30, 2014, 07:16:42 PM
Yeah it's sure unique having the above lamp in service in a GE "Circlite 75" adapter which would have originally had a /730 "Kitchen & Bath" triphosphor lamp and had an Ace (GE) cool white lamp when I got it.  It's rather dim though compared to that weird Keystone lamp I had in there before and probably even the Ace CW.  (910 lumens? Doesn't seem like that to me!).  I like the color but it's almost TOO blue, though it's well suited to a bedroom with Scotch-blue-painters'-tape-blue walls. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 01, 2014, 06:31:06 PM
Yeah daylight is too blue for me in a lot of applications. I like the light given off by them but the lamps themselves are too blue lol. My only daylight lamps are F14T12 and F40T12, and I have a very limited number of them.

My local ReStore has some NOS GE warm white circline lamps. I think FC30T9 size. Didn't get any since I don't need any circline lamps and I'm not a fan of WW lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 01, 2014, 09:14:37 PM
Are your Lifelines a soft, bluish hue but not terribly bright? Are they "light blue" to look at directly? Modern 6500K CFLs seem whiter than this circline I have.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 01, 2014, 10:07:32 PM
I haven't lit any daylight lamps recently. I have one F40/D lifeline and I remember it being slighly greenish to look at, like an aqua color. It's a lower CRI one from the late 60s. My F40/DX Altos that are in my great-aunt's 8ft preheater are a light blue color from what I remember. Other than those three F40s I have three F14T12/CW lamps, two NOS Sylvania's from 2005 I thinka nd a well-used but working GE from 1956. I like the daylight more in the F14 size. WW and D look better in shorter low-brightness fixtures IMO. Bigger fixtures like F40s and F96s used for general room lighting are better with 3500K or 5000K. Of course any fixture is OK with cool white if someone wants to play it safe but CW is a little boring after a while.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 02, 2014, 11:14:09 AM
"Play it safe"...LOL
I passed on a 1950s F14/W at a Restore since it would have had to travel out of state and I was a little concerned thus about zinc beryelium phosphors in my suitcase.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 02, 2014, 06:40:04 PM
Yeah a lot of times electricians stock 4100K in their vans as a one-type-fits-all sort of thing lol.

Aw man I would have still tried to take it. Wrap it in a little bubble wrap and it'll be fine. How were you transporting the suitcase?  Were you personally carrying it, having someone load it onto a boat, or was it sorted mechanically to go on an airplane? I bet airlines would flip out and go crazy and not let you bring a fluorescent lamp on the plane though lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 02, 2014, 09:25:56 PM
I went for the Westy F20T12/CW silverender instead, which first went from ReStore to my house there at the time, in the backseat of a car, on everything from merging onto the freeway to a bumpy dirt road, then into three cardboard poster mailer tubes spliced together, into a suitcase with clothes on all sides, then a 4 hour drive to the San Jose airport, then banged and smashed around there, in Seattle, and in Sitka, AK, where I reclaimed it, then it spent a couple weeks on a boat driving around to various places (suitcase even falling on it's side a few times in rougher seas) until I finally got a chance to get it to my house here (It was one of the first things that went home). 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 03, 2014, 07:01:56 AM
Wow that lamp went on quite a journey to get where it is today! Very cool! Yeah those tubes are strong in some ways and weak in others. I guess it all depends on the direction of the impact.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 03, 2014, 12:00:45 PM
I know a case of a 4' lamp (a 1988 Philips F40CW BTW) falling out of one of those 70s-80s illuminated ceilings in a kitchen (in the house I spend most of my childhood in), evenly hitting the linoluem floor and not breaking.  I think it hit evenly enough though.
I've never broken a lamp in transit, though the postal office managed to destroy some glass insulators of mine. (Wow, how ironic!)
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on December 03, 2014, 04:57:05 PM
I've broken a newer non-Alto Philips F15T12 soft white lamp back when I was just getting into fluorescent lights. It was in it's sleeve so most of the broke glass stayed in the sleeve. One of the endcaps flew an incredible 10+ feet though! :o Could have gone further if it didn't hit the wall lol. I've intentionally broken dead incandescents before (for no reason really, just to break them. They were modern incandescents and were already dead anyway). Just kinda fun to drop them base-up from around 6ft to a cement floor lol. I did it once and the lamp actually bounced off the floor once and when it hit the floor the second time it burst into a million pieces. I guess the first time, the lamp was angled just right so at the initial impact, it wasn't quite enough to shatter the glass but the second time did the lamp in.

I've ruined two 400W Mv lamps though. Both were diffused/coated (not phospohor coated) ED28 cram lamps made by PlusRite (same size as 175 and 250W lamps, but with a longer neck for the 400W arc tube). The first one I screwed in too much and the center contact got pushed up into the screw shell of the base lol. The second time I had melted a refractor on it (by accident of course, remember that incident with the couch and the Formed Plastics lens?) The lamp still worked but I chipped off some of the glass (not punctured it, but chipped off some of it on the surface) and I didn't want to risk the envelope shattering, as HID lamps can shatter while running if the outer glass is chipped or scratched because the glass can't handle expanding and contracting when the lamp heats up or cools down. So after the third lamp (got the second PlusRite free, claiming the base glue was defective so they sent a new replacement free, the one I got melted refractor all over lol).

So I decided to buy a different brand, hoping maybe I'd have better luck, so I bought the 400W /DX Sylvania ED37 full-size MV lamp that I still have today (made in 2010). It's a Chinese Sylvania lamp (all Sylvania mercs after the early-to-mid 2000s have been made in china. In the late-90s through early/mid-2000s Sylvania had their MV lamps made by Philips and GE. I have a 175W Sylvania /DX lamp made by GE from 2000). And ironically I haven't had any more things happen to the new lamp lol. Of course the M-400 split door that I bought the lamp for (my only 400W Mv fixture) is in the shed and has been for probably a year or two now. The OV-25 remote ballast and the M-400A2 are in the shed too along with the 1963 M-400, which is in the shed until Marco picks it up (he doesn't seem too eager to come and get it since I've had it since early August lol).

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 03, 2014, 10:11:52 PM
I remember both the F15T12 explosion and refractor/couch meltdown...Do you still have the second PlusRite?
I scored a 50w HPS lamp today, any ideas to light it? I'm thinking a 40w LPF RS ballast or a single lamp F32T8 electronic one, with a piezoelectric lighter ignitor to start it. Or maybe a couple 14/15/20/22w chokes in paralell...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 04, 2014, 03:20:14 PM
Nope, didn't keep either PlusRite.

NO!!! Don't use a F40 ballast because you'll destroy the lamp. F40s have double the arc voltage of a 50W HPS. A HPS would probably run off three F20 chokes but you won't be able to light it without an igniter. (You could probably use a BBQ igniter if you have one).

To be honest, I'd just buy a 50W HPS ballast if I were you. HPS lamps are very sensitive to not being driven properly. The arc tube will overheat and leak sodium, making the inside of the outer glass mirrored and the lamp won't work.  Here's a very cheap HPS ballast you can buy that will allow you to run the HPS. The kit comes with the ballast, mounting bracket, and igniter. (https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/6012/BS-LU0050120.html)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 04, 2014, 08:41:07 PM
Okay I'll keep that in mind.  But what about running an F40T12 lamp in series (or at least an F20?). 
I tried one 14/15/20w choke just for grins and giggles tonight and no luck.  I tried using a lighter next to it (yes, really, and yes a jug of water was handy, as was a fire extinguisher) with the idea the piezoelectric ignitor might jump it to life.  No luck yet.  I'm going to try two or three chokes in paralell but how would I wire that?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 04, 2014, 08:46:44 PM
I don't know how you'd go about wiring them in parallel. :-\ You won't be able to light the lamp without an igniter though. You can actually install a HPS lamp in an incandescent fixture and it would be safe because the lamp can't strike without an igniter to kick-start the lamp.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 04, 2014, 10:21:08 PM
And most people would think it was defective.
I also tried that setup in front of a 27" CRT television thinking the static electricity would help (I've gotten fluorescents to glow in front of it) but no luck.  How would I wire an ignitor anyway? (I intend to try one of those SIDAC things from a LOA 2ft fixture, basically the same as those weird 4' shoplights).  I think those give a pretty decent HV pulse...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 05, 2014, 10:32:12 PM
If you buy a HPs ballast kit, it comes with the ballast, igniter, and mounting bracket. All you need is the lamp, socket, wire nuts, and a cord. :P ;D Plus it'll run the lamp as-intended. If you do get the lamp to light up, don't be alarmed if the arc tube gets really silvery on the ends. That's just sputtering from being driven improperly. The arc tube will clear up after running on the proper ballast for a solid hour or two (like mercuy deposits on a fluorescent in a way).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 06, 2014, 06:48:53 PM
I was thinking it might sputter too.  I haven't had a chance to play around with it anymore so far this weekend. 
Can blackening from abuse clear up on fluorescents too? I swear I've had it happen. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 06, 2014, 09:42:47 PM
I believe sputtering can be cleared off if the lamp is being underdriven a lot and blackens on the end. Sometimes slightly overdriving the lamp and running it for a few hours "burns off" that little bit of blackening. With trigger start and rapid start fixtures, underdriven lamps do not sputter because of the constant heating. As long ad the ends are sufficiently heated, there won't be sputtering. Generally, when the lamp is underdriven a lot, the ends aren't adequately heated. Sputtering can be bad for the lamp though over a longer period of time. The constant heating on a RS/TS ballast allows lamps to be underdriven without affecting their lifespan.


BTW, organized two more shelves on my late-grandpa's 6-shelf storage rack. Lots random parts for stuff they don't even have anymore. I tossed out tow heaping trash cans' worth (the small trash cans about 2ft tall that are about the size of a paper shredder's basket.) of crap. Lots and lots of hardware, screws, washers, nuts. He virtually had his own TrueValue franchise in his basement lol. Anyway, I found a good amount of electrical goodies too, which I plan to eventually take home. A 2-gang metal junction box, a few old work single gang metal boxes, one single gang cast-aluminum junction box (before PVC boxes came out i guess), a bag of romex staples, a bag of dozens of vintage wallplates (the really thick ones with decorative designs on them, both brown/black and almond), some romex clamps, three boxes of wirenuts (one orange, one black, and the other box had old-school wirenuts that were really terminal blocks with a black plastic cap that screws on over the terminal. Those are from the 60s or 70s). A couple of wire-on ungrounded male plugs too as well as fuses, pull-chain string, etc. All kinds of goodies down there that I'll eventually scoop up along with those vintage 100W lamps.

So almost three shelves down, three to go. (didn't quite finish the third shelf, have to dust it off and then organize the stuff and then put some of the stuff from the electrical & hardware shelf that doesn't belong on the third shelf.) In reality, if the bottom shelf is #1 and top is #6, I've organized Shelf # 5 (light bulbs), Shelf #4 (oils, chemicals, etc; caulking; putty; paint brushes, rollers, and stirring sticks; and miscellaneous stuff), and Shelf #3 (electrical supplies; hardware, such as screws, nails, washers, nuts, hooks, etc). Shelf #6 only has a few things on it, such as wall paper and other stuff. It's over by head so I'll need a step-stool to do that one. Shelf #1 is all paintcans I think, but I haven't dug into it yet. I forget what shelf #2 is. I think more paint.

Next week I'll finish Shelf #4 (oils, chemicals, etc; caulking; putty; paint brushes, rollers, and stirring sticks; and miscellaneous stuff) which I haven't finished organizing yet. And I'll also try to clean Shelf #2. I should buy a few cheap disposable particulate respirators since there's a TON of dust down there and my thoat gets dry, I start sneezing, my eyes water, and my skin itches after being down there since i'm allergic to dust. I'll make labels for the shelves when I'm done too.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 07, 2014, 04:26:09 PM
I had a dream I managed to get it to light, at least to the blue-purple-white phase.  But still haven't messed with it.
That's pretty cool! What vintage 100w lamps? Is this at the auto shop? If so did you relamp any slimlines?
My shops (two of them) are full of stuff like that.  Take it all to ReStore! (And come back with with a 4ft preheat fixture perhaps or at least some F40 lamps).
I've had YET ANOTHER cheap LPF F40 ballast die.  Every one of those things I've ever had die at my own house or seen elsewhere fails the same way: Just heating cathodes, that's it.  I'd say bad capacitor but LPF ballasts don't really have that.  This one failed while it was on, too: I found it later, just lighting cathodes and buzzing very loudly on the MSW inverter electricity it was running on at the time.  I think it's an Advance "Benchlite" judging by the same identical shoplights I've opened up in the past (I've had several from other places, and this one came with my house.  I wonder if being out of use, or with bad lamps, accelerates this? This one was out of use for at least eight years while the house was unoccupied, and even the most recently used one I had had been about 3 or 4 years.  After maybe a couple hundred hours being used again they all seem to do this.  Another one I had do this was a LPF MagneTek.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 07, 2014, 07:06:27 PM
No my late-grandpa's basement (where the T17 preheater desk fixture is). They've got some older incandescent lamps. No, I'm not taking anything to the ReStore. Even if I did, they don't do "trades". You donate stuff (don't get paid) or you can buy stuff. In fact, the ReStore has a crapload of NOS 70s wallplates too. Pretty cool selection too of all different gang sizes. My grandpa's faceplates are all single-gang for one switch or one receptacle.

I wonder if the inverter electricity is killing the NPF ballasts. :-\ Those Advance Benchlite ballasts are garbage anyway. I heard that they tend to fail that way, only heating the ends. Those have the lowest ballast factor I've ever seen. I thought my benchlite ballast was failed when I lit it up because it was so dim. It was useless. The two F40s were about as effective as one full-power F20T12, which is pretty rediculous IMO. I just chopped off the leads and tossed it since I can always put the leads to good use in another fixture.

Only capacitor-containing ballasts have the potential of being affected by not being used for years. A reactor (preheat choke) or a reactance (trigger start or rapid start) ballast with no capacitor should not be affected since it's just a coil of wire. I think it's just a coincidence. Those ballasts are crap anyways. You need some nice HPF ballasts, even if they're energy-saving HPF. :D I'd be willing to send you a HPF F40/RS ballast for the cost of shipping (it probably wouldn't be much. If I put it in a flat-rate box it would only be like $10) if you have a mailing address. With a flat-rate box, I can cram other stuf in there too. ;D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 07, 2014, 08:52:51 PM
Is that T17 light still there? If so did you fire it up while down in that basement? I assume you're still cleaning the place out after he passed?
I know ReStore doesn't do trades, I just mean since you're going there anyway.  Collections grow fast, so I like getting rid of stuff that's useless to me but coming away with more goodies.  For example, I might take that 50w HPS lamp in and donate it, and buy some F40 lamps or something...
That's a good thought actually! I've never known anything I've had to fry on MSW though I've heard bad stories about that from other people.  One in particular told me every vacuum tube guitar amp they ever had was killed by a MSW inverter!
I've had other magnetic ballasts do fine on MSW though, I have 70s PCB HPF ballasts used every day for long hours, often on MSW.  (One in particular being that first Sears shoplight with a tar-leaked Bonusline).  It's pretty quiet too, even for MSW! That thermal-cutout-tripping Advance won't get hot enough to trip on MSW (That's weird, stuff runs hotter if anything).  My 8' slimline doesn't like to start on it though (80s-90s Advance full power, non-PCB "brick"). 
Those LPF ballasts are pretty lousy though, I have to agree.  The older ones especially suck since you can't run 34 watt lamps on them, which in my experience eases the crappieness off a bit (They're brighter actually!).   
I did once see some Lithonia "basket" wraparounds in a welding/diesel mechanic's shop with CWX lamps that were literally about as bright as a dim-glowing HPF! (But clearly not EOL.).  That place also had some nice F40 turrets.
They aren't that bad when warmed up IMO but still pretty dang dim compared to something HPF.  Where'd you hear they fail like this? Seen it happen too?
Okay, here's one then: How about having a 400w M59 MH ballast (I think CWA, never opened the highbay head it's in) produce a crazy 'arcing' or 'crackling' sound for the first 30 seconds or so after being plugged in for the first time in AT LEAST a decade? After that it was fine. (And has been ever since in albeit-occasional use.)
I need to find some HPF stuff for sure.  I'm thinking every LPF ballast that dies will probably be converted to electronic T8 (I know, I know, but still.)  They don't flicker when cold (a HUGE plus, since many of my lights are in unheated places), don't make obnoxious noise on MSW inverter electricity, and don't flicker with generators that have hertz/cycles issues (One of mine does).  But nothing will match the reliability of magnetic.
What would it be? a MagneTek? Advance? Universal?

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 08, 2014, 05:30:40 PM
Yep T17 is still up, both at my great-aunt's house any my late-grandpa's basement. The latter only has one lamp and starter since two lamps was too much light for my grandpa's purposes. I haven't touched the T17s yet, mostly because I lack the room to store them. Right now my dad is the scoutmaster for my little brothers cub scout pack but when my brother crosses over the boy scouts in late winter or early spring, my dad will resign from being the scoutmaster (per tradition) and all those boxes of stuff will be gone, so I'll have more storage space in the shed and utility room. The whole top rack in the shed will open up so when that happens, I can go nuts and replace the T17 and Western Electric fixtures in my grandma/late-grandpa's house lol. I'll buy some used IST8 wrap lights at the ReStore to replace the three Western Electric F40s in the garage and might use F32T8 wraps to replace the F20 Western Electrics too, that way my great-aunt's fluorescents are only F32T8s instead of both sizes. I could actually probably get away with replacing one of the F20s with a pull-chain incandescent...

Nah I want to keep the wallplates since I like the vintage ones. I'd like to buy some of the *hundreds* of NOS vintage wallplates at the REStore too but I have bigger fish to catch (T8 fixtures to replace T12 fixtures and T12 fixtures, either to keep in the collection or strip for their ballasts and sockets). Maybe those Benchlite ballasts are just super unhappy on inverter power. Those things are just the worse ballasts ever made, and they overheat with anything other than full-wattage F40s. I'm sure the F40s would virtually last forever though, being driven that low with the cathode heating.

I have an older 1960s single lamp NPF F40 strip with a Universal ballast. It's a F30/40 ballast though so it underdrives F40s, but it's an older ballast so it's a keeper lol. Really old NPF fluorescent ballasts actually ran the lamps at full power, so not all NPF ballasts are low ballast factor. All HID ballasts drive the lamps at 1.0 BF. Underdriving typically isn't good and over driving is very bad for HIDs. With HID, ballast factor differences aren't really needed since with HIDs, you can just use a lower/higher wattage lamp whereas with fluorescents, a higher wattage lamp usually means longer lamp. I still don't like different ballast factors. I wish all fluorescent ballasts just ran the lamps at 1.0 BF. New style T5 ballasts normally do. Yeah T12 lamps are rather dim on T8 ballasts, especially those with low balalst factor. CWX lamps don't help the brightness level either lol.


Umm... For the MH high bay, I'd seriously open it, since there could have actually been an arc inside that welded itself during the first 30 seconds of power. No offense, but why would you power it up without first inspecting the inside of the fixture lol? For all you know, mice could be living inside the fixture lol.  If it's multi-tap then it's safe to say it's CWA. High-bay ballasts are almost always CWA unless they're single-tap 277 (for MH) or single-tap 240V (for MV or 20-400W HPS), in which case they're usually reactors with power factor correcting capacitors. My six Holophane highbays originally had 277v single tap 400W MH/MV reactor ballasts which were replaced with 277V 350W PSMH reactor ballasts. It's too bad the ballasts weren't multi-tap or I could have kept the original ballasts. I only kept one of the original ballasts. I'll eventually need to buy some 350W PSMH ballasts (and maybe one 400W MH/MV ballast since they were originally 400w MH).

Yeah to be honest, I like magnetic ballasts for their tank-like performance but electronic ballasts provide flicker-free light. The flicker thing is even present on normal 60Hz grid-power, but is much more noticable (at least IMO) on rapid start than on preheat. I don't mind the noise though. I do not like electronic T12s though. They just seem "weird" like something is wrong lol. Lik e with HID, I associate T12 lamps with the buzz of a magnetic ballast.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 08, 2014, 08:48:35 PM
Oh yeah, that'll be cool to get those.  But at the same time it's cool seeing vintage lights in use elsewhere.  What do you intend to replace that T17 with anyway? Just 2XF32T8 or something? For comparable brigntness I'd think you'd need a 3-lamper or something.  But I'm not all that familiar with T17s either LOL.
Yeah then you can start replacing as you find other lights to replace.  Even the "Benchlite" type shoplights can be converted to T8 and I'd keep the cheap LPF ballasts anyway, anything magnetic and T12 is worth keeping IMO.  
And they'll probably like the brighter 4' fixtures where 2' ones were, or just use single lamp fixtures.  Either modern ones or older-but-nothing-special ones, just refitted to T8.  (Again, KEEP even the crappiest single lamp LPF ballasts!).  That's better than pullchains, I personally find it's one of my pet peeves when (especially 4') fluorescents get replaced with incandescent (Well, nowadays, spiral CFL) pullchains.
Those ballasts spend plenty of time on pure-sine-wave power too, one of my generators produces power almost the same as utility power except when very heavily loaded, (Which it is right now, the Philips FC8T9/DX on a preheat ballast is noticeably flickering as I type).
I remember that light...I bet a 25w "shoplite" lamp would be happy on that one too.  Probably even a 34 but heat-test that first please!
I feel like I always hear (well, read) people saying the LPF shoplight ballasts kill lamps fast but I never see that UNLESS it's misinserted with one pin sticking out, which Mr.  Handy Homeowner often manages to do.  (Another major pet peeve of mine!). Granted, I've done it too but when the lamp only dim-glowed, rectified, or was hard-starting I fixed it immediately.  Some 1988 Philips F40CWs (like the one in one of the basement preheat fixture's you're getting one by one) at the house I grew up  in were still going strong 25 years later in January 2014 last I was there.  I bet they're still there, at least in the garage (I bet the 80s illuminated ceiling in the kitchen is gone/will be gone; those are "out" of style).
Although I like those sort of setups in kitchens actually! It's kinda nostalgic, since I grew up around several of them.   Another factor for nostalgia is at least one spent, rectifying lamp in one of those on the LPF ballasts the shoplights above the translucent panels always had. Ever seen a setup like that?
I like the 1.0 BF idea too, but I like ballasts that run more than one lamp type (14/15/20/22, 25/34/40, F48, F72, F96, that sort of thing).  


You've got me thinking about opening it up now.  I didn't think of that at the time, and it's been fine for about three years since them every time I've fired it up. It will still do it sometimes though as the lamp ignites, which sometimes takes a few seconds.  If I had a decent way to record it, I'd make a recording of how it sounds.  As far as that goes, I'd like to make a compilation of the sounds of all my various ballasts. Not sure why it makes that sound, but hey, slimline ballasts "thump" when turned on! (It scares you when you turn on multiple fixtures on one switch and they all thump at once, then start "chattering" with cold 60w ES lamps. 
I know the flicker thing, I see it all the time, but things like /950 lamps make it much worse.  I really notice it with the LPF shoplight ballasts and 40w lamps.  HPF not so much, but still.  HIDs are really noticeable too.
I like the electronic T12s, particularly electronic T12 slimlines.  (no flicker and "chattering" sound if 60w lamps are used in a chilly place). 
On a side note, it looks like we scored a 40kW diesel genset (literally given to us).  It needs help though, namely a bad piston.  It's the very one that would have once powered the Metalux/Gibson 4' troffers I have. 



Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 09, 2014, 04:42:28 PM
It's cool to see vintage fluorescents in use but much better to save them and be certain they won't get scrapped. :D The fixture that the Benchlite ballast came in will replace the T17 over my late-grandpa's desk. I punched an extra hole in the fixture to allow a HPF-sized IST8 ballast to fit so it's got a residential GE F32T8 instant start ballast and will have two of the 2006 GE SPX35 F32T8s from my school. Since he only used one F90T17 lamp, the 2X F32T8 will be plenty of light. The only difference is that thre won't be any louvers, just small chintzy reflector.

Nah I have no use for ballasts with poor ballast factor and like you said, collections grow fast so I want to save room for the good stuff. I keep a few on hand to run F30s or F14s and F15s though.

I don't think my great-aunt would care if I replaced the 2ft fixtures with 4ft ones lol. She probably won't mind a pullchain incandescent replacing the pull-chain F20 Western Electric fixture either. I'll just stick a 100W incandescent in it. The only thing she's picky on is that NO CFLs can be use lol. She hates them with a passion.

Well shoplite ballasts (LOA, etc) do chew through lamps but NPF rapid start ballasts with lower ballast factor actually last a lot longer but once an electrode breaks, forget it, since the cathode heating is the only thing that keeps them going lol. The single lamp F40 NPF strip in my grandpa's shop runs 24/7 and and lamp doesn't have blackening and it's been in for a LONG time! Since the 90s probably, since it's cool white but not an Alto. My guess is either pre-alto Philips or Sylvania CWP from around 2000. Not a GE though since it has the Philips/Sylvania endcaps. The thing is useless though. I don't know what would be more effective, converting the fixture to F32T8 with a 1.0BF ballast (using a programmed start CFL ballast for 32W CFLs) or replacing the fixture with a new 2X F32T8 ballast. I'll probably install a new ballast and use a T8 lamp instead. I'll have to test my single lamp NPF F40 strip and see how much brighter 1.0BF F32T8 is compared to a F40T12 running at around 50-60% power lol. Although the fixture is (in my opinion) useless in terms of light output, the fixture hasn't been relamped in 10+ years and since about two years ago, has run 24/7 (before that it ran dawn-to-dusk, when my grandpa came in to work in the morning and left in early evening around 5PM or so).

It's not the original fixture to the building though. He said in the early 80s the furnace went up in flames. Thankfully he was there when it happened and was able to call the fire department. He was in the sprayroom (where is an attached single-car room where he spraypaints, which is connected to the shop room by that "hallway" where the furnace is. So in order to get into his office to call 911 (remember, no cell phones then), he had to open the garage door in the spray room and walk around the building (it's a small building though) and come back through the front. Thankfully he had his keys on him because the spray room's garage door opens toward the "backyard" of the shop, which is a fenced-in and locked area. If he didn't have his keys, he wouldn't have been able to go through the fence gate and go into the office to call the fire department, since the furnace room is the only way to leave the sprayroom besides exiting through the overhead door and going around the building. Anyway, the building is cinderblock so it wasn't badly damaged. He had to have a new furnace put in though (oil), have a new compresser (since it's right next to the furnace) get a new light fixture, and everything else in the hallway/room was lost. The bathroom shares a wall with the "hallway" and there's actually an opening at the top of the wall before it meets the ceiling about 6" to a foot large. When I removed the Harmony House fixture, the dust was exceptionally black and sooty and that's when he told me about the furnace fire back in the 80s.

Does it only make the weird noise before the arc tube stablizes and stops flickering like nuts? When Mh lamps first come on they sometimes make a GRUUUUUUU sound and the arc tube will flicker rather violently until the arc is struck.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: LampLover84 on December 10, 2014, 06:47:20 PM
I don't normally post in the off topic but I do read it
@ Mike
when you mentioned

"Does it only make the weird noise before the arc tube stablizes and stops flickering like nuts? When Mh lamps first come on they sometimes make a GRUUUUUUU sound and the arc tube will flicker rather violently until the arc is struck."

I have a 100W M90 fixture
Is it also normal for the arc tube to flash pink, blue and orange during the first few seconds of switch on? I always thought (Well to me atleast) it looks like the ignitor was still sending the 4KV pulse when the lamp flickered like that
Also how does the ignitor know when to stop  pulsing? 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 10, 2014, 11:07:15 PM
Hi LampLover,

yeah HIDs (especially MH) tend to have varying warm-ups. MHs will flash different colors at first depending on the gas mixture in the arc tube. As long as the lamp doesn't appear to "act up" once it's warmed up (though occasional flashing or split-second pink flashes are normal for MH and MV lamps).

With igniters, they look for continuity (closed circuit). When the lamp is removed or dead, the arc won't strike, therefore the circuit is not complete (no continuity) so the igniter will keep striking and striking. When the arc is struck (usually takes several attempts for low-wattage PSMH and sometimes higher-wattage PSMH too though HPS is pretty quick) the circuit is completed and the igniter senses the continuity and stops striking.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 11, 2014, 11:17:53 AM
This one's probe start, but yes, it stops after it's stabilized.
Oh cool! 35K is a nicer color to most people anyway, though I like 5000K or 6500K better :). 
But those LPF rapid start ballasts will also run a lamp (rectifying but useable I guess) for years like that. 
Exactly what year did the fire happen? The lamp/fixture should be about that old since I imagine it was repaired immediately.  Did they have to shut power off to the building during/immediately after? That's scary that he had to open that door, I feel like it would give it more air, especially and those paint fumes! At the same time it may have prevented a "flashover".  Luckily since it was cindeblock walls it would've been more or less contained unless the door to that actual room was opened (assuming it was a metal/fire-rated one). I hope the FD didn't pump the place full of dry chem, I know an incident of that and it was a real disaster to clean up after! Wanna hear that story?
At least that Harmony House preheater sure has seen a lot in it's day! It will hopefully see many more things!
Yeah even try a 34 watt lamp in the fixture...they seem brighter on LPF ballasts.  Or convert it to T8 with a SPX50 lamp!
And if you do that, be SURE to save some slimline ballasts if you convert those! If not a whole fixture, a few ballasts as spares, and a case's worth of (albeit used) lamps, especially 75w.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 12, 2014, 11:59:57 PM
One of the GE "Plant & Aquarium" pre-Eco lamps in the first Sears shoplight (the one with the Bonusline) is aging quite notiiceably, the blackening is starting to become visible even when off.  Those lamps came with my house and already had who knows how many hours on them before 2010 when we moved in. Probably 2011 before they were used/powered up even once.  They were used on and off in a cheap shoplight they were in as general lighting before I started getting dozens of F40 lamps in "real" color temps. But they've seen plenty of hours on full power ballasts in several different lights growing plants since then, which is exactly what they're doing as I type.
I ran a mini excavator for the first time today.( a Deere 35D).    Quite the experience actually, though I felt very uncoordinated as opposed to in real life where you move in a really fluid way.   I wish there was a video of it.  I probably wasn't that bad actually, just really jerky and trying to remember what did what.  Another thing crossed off my "bucket" (pardon the pun" list.  (Though I'm going back and doing more sometime). 
I managed to (sorta) dig a hole and pick up/drop some pieces of driftwood.  (Practiced on a big, open beach). 
Might be doing some wiring at a neighbors' place this weekend too. Also going for woodworking on Sunday at the very woodshop two of the Sears shoplights (the ones with LPF ballasts) and the vaportight lights that had the October 1980 Kool-Koil ballasts, the Sylvania F40/DSGN50s, and the inside etch Mainlighter (since gotten rid of, it was dead) came from.  I'm trying to do a little bit of everything.  I'm also starting a class soon to get a captain's license too!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 14, 2014, 01:01:54 PM
Ah yeah it's probably just normal MH warm-up behavior. It's also normal for MH to do nothing for up to a minute or two after being switching on. Sometimes the lamp takes a minutes to even begin starting. MH lamps are just subborn to start sometimes. Some MH lamp start easier than others and some ballasts allow lamps to start better than others.

I don't know when the fire happened but it was in the early 80s I think. 1982 or 1984 maybe? IDK... The fire wasn't in the room he was in. There is a steel outdoor-rated door (a person-door) from the "hallway" to the sprayroom so I assume he closed that door before opening the big garage door. He usually leaves the door open about a foot when he's in there. There is no door between the "hallway" and the garage/shop room though. The fire probably wasn't that big. I don't know if they needed to shut off the power or not. Yeah that Harmony House preheater was the only remaining original fixture to the shop, from 1940. There was the wall-mount strip, which I removed a couple years ago. It never worked so he said if I could take it down, I could have it. And it had an NOS Westy F40/CW blackender so I assume at soem point the fixture was relamped and when it didn't light, the person (probably my grandpa, or maybe a previous owner) just said "The heck with it" lol. When I fired up the Westy it made those cool flashes that unused lamps typically make when lit for the first time.

I'm curious what kind of ballast is in the F40 single lamp strip but whatever it is, it's got a very low ballast factor. I wonder what the original fixture would have been? Another Harmony House preheater? He said he's replaced most of the lighting in the shop because it was "too dim". My guess is that the whole shop was probably originally lit by F40 preheaters since it's from 1940. I don't think HOs and slimlines were out that that time. I'm thinking of raising the slimlines in the garage/shop room so they light a larger space (although the space below the fixtures won't be lit as brightly) He's got a concrete ceiling and the lights are all fed off surfact-mount conduit with cords coming down to the lights, which are suspended by chains. IMO, he should add some more fixtures. I think it would be cool to totally redo the lighting in the garage/shop so that the fixtures are in continuous rows and are either flush-mounted to the ceiling or suspened with EMT conduit instead of chained.

Congrats on operating a mini excavator! I bet you had lots of fun! Ah get to do some electrical wiring, eh? :D Wish I could! I've only replaced outlets and switches (aside from adding a keyless socket in the basement). I got some latches for my other vaportight fixture so now all I need are the diffusers and the strip channel fixtures to go inside! My scoutmaster said we'll go back and grab the correct diffusers next time we're there lol. I'll probably just buy them, but if I can get the diffusers for free rather than spend $70, I'd like that...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 14, 2014, 06:25:02 PM
He might have even left it open to prevent a "flashover"...that's why FDs bust out all the windows of a burning house.  At least it sounds like they didn't drychem the whole thing LOL...the boat I'm ending up with had a fire and the FD showed up by the time other people in the harbor/marina had it mostly out (garden hoses and private fire extinguishers), busted out all the windows, and filled the wheelhouse with dry chem (Which was JUST STARTING to cook; blistering varnish, etc.).  In just a few hours cleaning that up, a brand-new ShopVac was totally toast (motor and everything!). House fires (well a boat fire, but same thing) are a nightmare to clean up after, the fire department makes more mess than the fire and you have so much smoke/water damage/  Can still get a little whiff sometimes.  BTW it's also from 1940, just like the shop!
If the Westy lamp flickered and swirled, yeah, it was likely brand new.  Have you thought about disassembling that ballast (Be careful if it's HPF; it almost certainly has PCBs then) and soldering on new wires? Then you'll have a working F40 preheater for little or no cost! (Except maybe a paint job and brand new lamp/starter if you insist).
Slimlines were out by the late 50s but IDK about 1940.  No idea about HO.  You might be able to convert slimlines to HO but I'm not sure if the new ballast would be too tall for a typical striplight (An electronic one would be fine though).  One thing that will help is only buying 75 watt lamps in brighter color temps like 3500K.  I guess raising them up would help, as would adding more lights too.  But if the place sells it's not worth it.  *But saving an HO and a slimline sure is in that case*
Get some cheapo 1X or 2X F32T8 strips from a place like HD or Lowes, or ReStore.  Or F40...or F48T12 slimline or HO or better yet VHO!
It sure was fun running that thing!
I'm starting Christmas lights soon too.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 14, 2014, 07:38:37 PM
I don't know if they had dry chem stuff back in the 80s lol. I think it was a minor fire. Everything in the hallway/room had to be replaced but nothing else was ruined to my knowledge. Are you talking about the single lamp wall-mount strip's ballast? It's actually NPF (but full power) so no capacitor. I probably could put new wires on the ballast. Don't have a soldering gun though. I actually bought two NOS GE NPF F30/40 preheat ballasts, one to replace the ballast in the fixture. I'll probably install the 80s replacement ballast I bought for now and maybe attempt to replace the leads in the original ballast at a later date. I still haven't restored the fixture. Gotta sand it down and repaint it. It originally had a silver/chrome finish but I don't know what color scheme I want to use when I restore it. It's very rusty so I'll be spending quite a bit of time sanding it.

If we were to replace all the slimline ballasts, I'd just have him buy T8 ballasts since the options for T12s (especially slimlines) are really getting slim (pardon the pun) wheras F96T8s have a much wider array of options. If he actually wanted a complete T8 retrofit, I'd use all high ballast factor ballasts (over 1.0BF). I'd be torn between 3500K and 5000K. I'd probably side with 3500K but the spray room I'd probably do 5000K. Bathroom is currently F32T8/735 with an instant-start ballast. I like the 3500K lamps in the bathroom. I think 3500K would look good in the troffers in his office too with the wood paneling and all. I will not use WW though lol. Maybe 8ft will be 5000K and 4ft 3500K? Right now everything is either some variation of 4100K or 5000K (aside from the 3500K T8s in the bathroom). Aside from the bathroom fixture, which I bought the lamps for, he's never used 3500K in his shop. Pretty sure he's never used warm white either. He's used 4100K, 5000K, and 6500K, the latter being F40/DX Altos in a 8ft tandem F40/RS wrap light in a utility closet that has a zillion dead flies in the diffuser.

Yeah even if he doesn't want to sell the shop, he's going to be 70 within the year so no matter what we may want to hear, I'm sure he won't be able to work more than another 10-15 years. He's been havind some medical issues the past few years (IMO is probably from all the chemicals and debris he's been exposed to in his shop over the years since he doesn't always wear a mask when doing work like he should. Down the line he'll probably sell the shop to one of his part-time employees that occasionally do some minor work for him. He doesn't want to sell the shop to his "guy" yet because he doesn't totally trust the guy. He just likes the security of owning the building.

Right now he's buying Philips CWS lamps since that's what Home Depot stocks. He just buys the cheapest ones he sees, which is pretty much always 4100K. If any ballasts die (which I highly doubt since I take too-good care of the fixtures lol) I'd have him buy a T8 ballast if it was an F40 but if it was a slimline I'd probably have him buy a T12 ballast since they only sell the 8ft T8s by the case online. Never seen them available in stores. The HBF F96T8 ballasts are cheaper than the F96T12 HBF ballasts though... Whatever, I'll probably have to replace the electronic ballast in the bathroom fixture before I need to replace any of the magnetic ballasts. If we were to add fixtures, they'd be either 4ft 2X F32T8 strips or 8ft 4X F328 strips since that's what they stock as Lowe's.

As for the single-lamp NPF F40 strip in the "hallway" room, I'll probably retrofit it with a 1.0 BF Advance 32W electronic PL ballast that can run one F32T8 and then stick a 3500K F32T8 in it. That will only cast as much as one lamp since I already have the ballast and will reuse te fixture. May sprypaint the fixture ballast channel to increase reflectivity too since it's probably got those soot marks.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 14, 2014, 10:57:38 PM
I think that would be a cool restoration when it's done! What's the line current?
I prefer SPX50 over SPX35 but that's just me.  If you replace the bathroom light ballast, try to find a program-start one if it's switched on and off every time.  (Although wasn't the preheat fixture it replaced which you now have running 24/7 towards the end?)
I'm surprised /DX isn't cheaper than /CWS...it was for F40s anyway.  (Altos at HD).  I like that color better anyway.  It's cool to see old technology in lighting in use, but if you guys sell I would retrofit everything since it would likely be replaced by the new owner, and you'd never get the old lamps, ballasts, etc.  This way you'll have plenty of slimline ballasts and lamps, and I'd try at least saving one fixture so you have something to put the ballasts/lamps in.  Same for HO.
I'm sure the paint fumes, etc. aren't helping! If he smokes that really won't help either.   My mother died at only 60 from stage 4 lung cancer and COPD caused by smoking her whole life. 
I would want to own the building/business too, even if I had other people actually doing the work there once I was too old and couldn't do it myself anymore since I had health issues. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 15, 2014, 06:01:33 PM
I believe the line current is .875A, and that's for a single 40W lamp. If that's not full-power, I don't know what is lol.

Well, I will install a ballast that I find at the ReStore (I have some on-hand) which is always instant-start. Never seen a programmed start T8 ballast at the ReStore before. Ideally, I'd installed a HBF ballast but the one in the bathroom fixture now is a NBF Advance ballast. Unless he buys the new ballast, it'll be one that I have laying around. As far as I know, he runs the bathroom light 24/7, which is a waste IMO since no one is there at night but his "guy" that works there likes to leave a couple lights on for the cats at night (which is kind of rediculous seeing that cats have excellent night vision) but his "guy" is "a pain in the ass" so my grandpa just leaves it on lol. That and the "hallway" fixture run 24/7. I believe everything else gets shut off when he closes up shop (pardon the pun) for the night. The lamps are Philips Alto II and the ballast is an Advance, so it's a contest to see what fails first lol. If I end up buying lamps for him for the T8, I'll use 3500K or 5000K GE lamps but if he buys the lamps, they'll be Philips Altos of whatever color temperature is the cheapest. Since I think all T8 color temps are the same price for the twin packs, he'll probably grab whatever but if he takes me with him (sometimes he does since he doesn't know what kind of lamps to get) I'll pick out 3500K or 5000K lamps.

/DX is cheaper than /CWS? Interesting... I think CWS are brighter, but he doesn't pay attention to that. Maybe I was with him when we got the lamps, as I would have picked out the brightest lamps. I don't remember. He got the F96T12s on his own though, and they're /CWS from March 2014. The F40T12/CWS lamps are from 2013 I think and so far have only been used at his house, not at the shop. With the slimlines, if they were retrofitted to F96T8, they'd probably still get replaced since most people only want 4ft lamps. If he holds onto the shop long enough for me to get my own place, I'll grab one of the HOs and maybe a slimline but that's it, since the expense would come out of my pocket and replacement 4X F32T8 fixtures are 50 bucks a pop. To be honest, I like the idea of using 4ft lamps but only with new fixtures. With those 8ft F32T8 retrofits, it usually looks really tacky and even some new factory-built 8ft F32T8 tandem fixtures are tacky looking. I don't mind 8ft F32T8 strips and wraps though and they look better mounted in continuous rows. If I got him to let me totally redo the lighting layout in the garage/shop room and add fixtures, I'd put all the T12s together one half of the garage/shop room and the new fixture on the other side (since if I put them all in continuous rows and mounted them them a little closer together, all the existing fixture could probably fit on one side). The old fixtures would remain F96T12. But that's probably not going to happen. I will ask him if I can raise the fixtures next time I'm there though.

No, he doesn't smoke at all, never did. My grandma (his ex-wife, my mom's mom) smokes like a chimney though and I get concerned for her. She's got periodontal disease from the smoking and has several false teeth. Her second husband (my grandpa, mom's step-dad, the grandpa who scraps) used to smoke but got ill (like death-row ill) and his doctor said "choose smoking or choose death". After that he just quit cold turkey (not that he had a huge choice) and he's better now but still sick.

My friend's mom, who was always a close person to me, also died of stage 4 lung cancer a couple years ago (she was in her mid-40s). She never smoked in her life, so it really came as a complete shock to everyone. But you don't necessarily need to be a smoker to get lung cancer. I don't know what caused her cancer. She was an accountant so maybe asbestos in the banks? I have no clue. :-\ She was one of the nicest people I'd ever met. Such a shame to loose her. I give you and my friends a lot of credit because I don't know how I'd deal with loosing my mother or father growing up. I guess if it happens, you don't have a choice other than to deal with it though.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 15, 2014, 09:28:59 PM
Wow that's a lot! I've heard the reason the crappy shoplights are so dim is since if they powered lamps at the true 40w they'd draw over 1.5a! (over 180w at 120v!)
LOL yeah...which will die first?
Yeah get something bright for sure.  Same for T8...whatever is brightest! Especially in a situation like that...a dark building without many windows. 
I started on the Christmas lights today.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 16, 2014, 03:18:12 PM
Yeah that's true. A NPF two-lamp ballast running at full power would drawa LOT of line current. You can convert a NPF ballast to HPF just by adding a capacitor across the black and white supply wires. Not sure of the rating but someone like Trent or Don would probably know. There is no way (that I know of) to improve the ballast factor though. If the ballast only powers 40W lamps at about 30W, then adding a cap to make it HPF won't effect the brightness of the lamp at all.

One thing I like about T8s is that all the color temps are the same CRI and lumen output for a given phosphor series. All the 700 Series lamps are 2800 lumens and (i think) 78CRI(?) whereas with T12s, a 6500K lamp has a totally different CRI and lumen output from a 3500K lamp. No real consistancy.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 16, 2014, 09:37:06 PM
I think it's 75CRI but yeah you're right.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 16, 2014, 10:46:39 PM
remember those twin F40/RS shoplights from the ReStore with the 1977 Therm-o-Matic ballasts and how i converted one to T8 and used it in my grandpa's shop's bathroom? Well, I've decided that I am going to convert the other to T8 as well and use it to replace a cooler looking T12 fixture within the family. I'll save the like-new ballast of course.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 20, 2014, 08:02:48 PM
I do.  I am considering buying a 3 lamp ballast for that Gibson troffer light from my school and Using the Shunted universal ballast that is currently running the center lamp in my homemade 40 watt preheat fixture and using the ballast that will displace to fix the cheap LPS shop light that died recently
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 20, 2014, 09:02:46 PM
Hmm all your NBF ballasts seem to be dying. The single lamp NPF ballasts are virtually unkillable lol. I'm making my English teacher a new podium since her old one is distressed. I have to file down a couple pieces in my shop at school and then stain it and finished assembling it.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 20, 2014, 09:23:44 PM
It is still the same one I was previously talking about.   Nice! I am currently doing woodworking in the shop the sears shop lights came from.  WELL the two with residential ballasts that is.  But the table saw I am using over there, a 1994 Delta UniSaw, used to be under the sears light with the GE ballast.

l
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 21, 2014, 10:59:44 AM
Ah I see. I thought it was another one lol. Ah cool! Really cool that you are still tied to the place you got some lights from.

I have my M-250A on as a space heater for my room lol. It's only 100W MV but heats up the room about one degree every every 20 minutes or so. I brought my room from 60 degrees when I woke up to 65.5 now. I keep my heat vent shut (we have forced air heat) since I like my room to stay cool but with the vent shut all night, it's usually cooler than I'd like it to be when I wake up in the morning lol. It's snowing out now but on Christmas it's going to be 60 degrees out and rain! New England weather is very bipolar lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 21, 2014, 04:24:56 PM
Yeah if it works! I bet my 400 watt halide would do really well but it's too bright.
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on December 21, 2014, 07:20:07 PM
LOL yeah 400W is too bright, but I could remote-ballast my OV-25 remote ballast or another light to my 400W HPS westinghouse ballast, since it's still in my street light pole as a counterweight.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 21, 2014, 10:24:49 PM
I just want a somewhat dimmed out 400 watt mercury lamp for that ballast, then I can do that without burning my eyes out!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 22, 2014, 07:02:53 AM
Yeah 400W MV isn't that intensely bright. Good news when using as a space heater, is that they give off the same amount of heat whether they're new or really dimmed lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 22, 2014, 07:39:44 PM
That's what I was thinking.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 23, 2014, 06:59:37 PM
I stained the tabletop podium yesterday with Minwax Red Oak 215 stain and applied the first of three coats of Cabot Gloss Polyurethane. It's going to have a great shine to it when it's done! :D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 23, 2014, 08:48:04 PM
I will be gluing the knife block together later this week, in the same shop the Sears shop lights came from.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 23, 2014, 09:13:28 PM
A knife block? Cool! Are you going to treat it with a polyurethane or keep it natural wood?

BTW, I busted that 1940s-ish GE ballast from the single lamp strip. Not potted at all. Everything is wrapped in brittle waxed paper. The wires are easily replacable with a solder iron (which I don't have...) but now I need to find some new electrically insulated rated waxed paper or a substitute since the old paper is brittle and turning to dust, much like the supply leads and ballast label.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 24, 2014, 04:01:20 PM
OK, I got coat 2 of three of polyurethane on the podium. I also added "MADE IN 2014 BY MIKE McCANN" on the base and added "McCOMBE * B1-10" on the top (McCombe, is my English teacher's last name and B1-10 is her classroom). I wrote this with a brush and a can of red paint. I wrote it twice since once wasn't enough to make the writing a nice rich red, so I went over it again. Then after it dried, I applied the second coat of polyurethane to the podium, going over the red writing, as it's a clear gloss polyurethane. This will protect the painted letters from scraping off, since it will be "buried" under two coats of polyurethane.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 24, 2014, 05:42:56 PM
Oh very nice! Does the varnish stink? (lots of fumes)?
Probably rub it with something but that's it.  I might add all the cuts I've done for it were done using a Delta UniSaw (a really nice table saw) that used to be directly underneath the Sears shoplight with the Bonusline ballast.
Good luck getting it going again! Post pics if you do of what you did!
The outside of my house is lit with C7s and C9s.  A neighbor commented I should have at least a 4KW Christmas display! It's about 1KW all told I think.  That same neighbor gave me that Lithonia 8' slimline I got awhile back.
Inside is minis on the tree and I also have some LED sets (half-wave; nasty flicker) elesewhere inside I run 24/7 since they draw 2.4w each...for 3 of them that's less than 8w and perfect for nightlights!
I'm developing a new interest in those 60s-early 80s "deuce and a half" army trucks.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 24, 2014, 10:22:24 PM
Actually, I don't even think there is varnish! I think the wires had a prefab coating on them and were just wrapped around a bar of metal! I removed all the brittle paper and I don't really know how good of condition it's in. There are no visible signs of a short (no burn marks or deformed coils) but the coils unravel by hand. The external lead wires are soldered onto the ballast coils.

To fix it I'll need to buy a soldering iron, some 18 guage wire, probably some transformer varnish, and some sort of waxed paper or other insulator to wrap the cluster of coils. I'll get pics soon and post them on LG and seek assistance.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 24, 2014, 10:57:11 PM
I'm talking the podium varnish.  I'm all too familiar with paint/varnish fumes.  Worst one is oil-based paint (or even drywall/water-stain-blocking primer for that matter!) And don't even get me started on muriatic acid or acetone. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 24, 2014, 11:24:12 PM
Ah yeah the stain had a very strong odor to it (still fills the house) but the Cabot polyurethane is a relatively low-order. It's pretty much pancake syrup in a can lol.

So what do you think about the ballast? :P I found that it was only held closed by two spot-welds, right where the holes to mount it to the fixture are.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on December 25, 2014, 01:54:13 AM
Yeah when I stained my traffic light stand during the summer, I had to do it in the garage since the varnish and stain had a really strong smell. I used a one step stain/varnish since it was a small project and I didn't feel like buying two different products to finish it.

As for the ballast, I suppose you could use this (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nomex-410-Insulation-Paper-5-mil-thick-5-each-8-x12-Sheets-Aramid-Electrical-/261662003549?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cec45515d) to replace the crumbling paper. You can use those European screw terminal blocks inside to attach the new wire if you don't have a soldering iron. Sounds like it's a pretty early ballast since it's unpotted and had wax paper coil insulation.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 25, 2014, 12:50:03 PM
Ah wow I didn't know they still made that stuff! lol I think this would work! Thanks. 8) I don't think there's enough room inside for the terminals so maybe I can twist the wires together and then glob some liquid electrical tape on them. Yeah it's a cira-1940 ballast. The fixture didn't work when it was removed so I don't know if it was the ballast or if the fixture didn't have power, as no replacement went up in its place, since my grandpa never used this light.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 25, 2014, 02:57:07 PM
Give it a whirl! Do you know anybody with a soldering iron?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 25, 2014, 03:44:53 PM
Nope. Maybe my grandpa has one. I'll ask him Sunday when I see him...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 25, 2014, 09:03:33 PM
f he does electrical work in cars I would think he has one.  If you get really desperate and impatient you might try a propane blowtorch and some copper plumbing pipe flux but I dunno if a torch is a great idea...though you might have both of those items around already and if not they can probably bought at someplace like Home Depot, or even Walmart LOL. 
BTW have you started driving (a car) yet Mike? If so have you tried a manual yet?  I haven't even started yet.  Granted, I currently spend most of my time in a place without cars LOL.  My mom was going to start teaching me the basic stop and go type stuff in our church's parking lot on a weekday (non-Sunday) but we never made it that far.  But both my parents (and even one of my teachers during a field trip) have been telling me the rules of the road as they drive, for example I'm turning my turn signal blinker on blah blah feet before the intersection, etc.
I know hardly anything about cars, but I am slowly beginning to educate myself (Through YouTube, an expert on most any subject) on those 60s/70s/80s "Deuce-and-a-half" ex-army trucks.  Kinda interested in those things, even as an everday-driver vehicle, just to be unique.  "I drive a Saturn" "I drive a Chrysler" "I drive a Chevy van" "I drive a Deuce"....
Am I the only one who wishes the forum had the same "laughing" emoticon as the gallery?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 25, 2014, 10:19:31 PM
Yeah I'm not sure if he's got one or not. He does body work on cars but I'm sure how much he does with the electronics inside. He always makes a car look nice but a lot of his cars are clunkers dispite looking sharp lol. He's got one with a broken speedometer so when he's going 50 MPH it says he's going 75 MPH lol.

Yeah I got my permit back in May 2014 and have been driving ever since. I got my license on November 18th so now I can drive alone but I don't have my own car, so I can only drive my parents' vehicles (Chevy Impala or Chevy Silverado) when they let me lol. I'm trying to save up fo my own car, and to do that I need to get a job, which has proven more difficult than I thought! Once I find a part-time job I can save up all my money for a car. My parents agreed to pay for insurance, which lifts a burden off my shoulders, but I will be fully responsible for purchasing the car and paying for gas and repairs, etc. I don't know if they'll pay the registration for me, but I don't think it's that much (less than $100). I've only driven automatic. I've never actually been inside a stick-shift vehicle before. Kids in my school like stick-shifts since you can "drift" on corners but I really don't give a crap about drifting lol. Automatics are a lot easier to operate and although they tend to use a little more gas than stick-shifts, I think they're worth it. Ahh I couldn't tell you what distance you're supposed to turn your blinker on but most people around here don't use their blinkers anyway so it's not a big deal lol. I turn on my blinker based on my speed. If I'm going faster, I turn it on further from the turn. I usually turn the blinker on a second or two before I brake. I usually press the brakes lightly for a couple seconds before I actually brake if there's someone behind me so the brake lights come on before I actually start braking so they know I'm going to stop.

You're supposed to count to three at a stop sign before you continue but no one does that lol. I don't either, though I do stop. Some people fly right through stop signs and think tapping the brake lights is enough. :8) As for speed limits, I stay within 10 over the speed limit most of the time but I sometimes go as much as 15-20 over the speed limit (some roads have a really low speed limit IMO lol). I haven't driven with snow/ice on the road yet. My parents said once the snow and ice come I won't be driving as much, since they want to teach me safe snow/ice practices. I did get to drive in the rain last night and I was surprised at how fast people drive in the rain. I was on the freeway (where I noticed the new LEDs) in a 65MPH speed zone and people were doing like 80MPH. I was doing like 60-65 since the rain made it hard to see. (was after dark, about 6PM).

LOL one of those army trucks would be cool to have. Bet you'd get poor mileage out of it though unless they're diesel. Ah yeah I wish the (http://www.galleryoflights.org/mb/gallery/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif) icon was an option on the forum too. :P
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 25, 2014, 10:36:07 PM
I laughed out loud at the speedometer thing.  The company flatbed for the place we worked for last year had a broken speedomeeter that was stuck way down past 120MPH...we were joking they must've been really flooring it! Especially in an isolated town (no roads in or out, cars come in/out on the ferry) where the highest speed limit is 45MPH!
Which do you prefer? The Impala or the truck? Insurance can be really expensive from what I'm told for teen drivers like you.  It personally drives me crazy when I look at the speedometer from the passenger seat and the person I'm with is exceeding the speed limit, even by a few MPH.  (Like 50 in a 45 zone, 60 in a 50 zone, etc.)  How about people who drive 50MPH on unpaved roads with no published speed limit? I can't decide on that one LOL.  The one that ESPECIALLY annoys me (even on deserted, remote highways) is when people lazily drift over the yellow line. 
Do you drive with the radio, etc. on or are you still trying to concentrate a lot since you're new to driving? My mom had the "no talking zone" from when I was little even up to a year and a half ago when she was merging onto/exiting off of the freeway...trying to go from 0-60+ or 60+-something much less.
I didn't know that about the stop signs, though it makes sense.  I was once with someone who ran a red light on purpose, but it was like 10PM, nobody else at the intersection, and "We have a bathroom emergency in this car". 
Well the ones I'm semi-interested in are multifuel actually.  (Kinda amazes me more things aren't actually!).  They apparently have a really arbitrary/unconventional shifting pattern (manual of course) too. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 25, 2014, 11:54:06 PM
I forgot to mention another thing that kinda irritates me as a wannabe-driver is those intersections where you can't see what's coming (like on the inside of a curve).  One my dad and I frequent (It's where his other half lives) is a fairly steep unpaved road intersecting at something way less than a right angle with a 45MPH zone...you can never see what's coming in the same lane as you! (Offending intersection is on the left side and you're merging into the left lane...you can see the left but not the right!
Also the no-talking-zone thing was because my mom disliked driving on the freeway...tried to avoid it by taking other roads if at all possible!
Another good one is the time I managed to send a peeler log (fencepost) down a very steep hill into a 35MPH zone, and, as luck would have it, a car came from each direction at that exact moment!
I'm pretty sure I've mentioned by now that the house I grew up in had a driveway with a 37 percent grade.  It was also accessed off of a dirt road too, that was once a dead-ender too.  It eventually got pushed through when the neighbor's new big fancy house got built and they wanted to be on city sewer instead of a septic...or maybe it was code by then that all new construction had to be...anyway they bulldozed through a service road and people would still go off the side all the time.  Also the driveway of my house (the 37 percent grade one) was raked concrete, yet on people's newer, fancier cars the low-traction alarms would go off! Also it had a curb which drivers unfamilar with our driveway occasionally high-centered themselves on! A big source of these was the fact the house was two streets above the major high school in a town of 25,000-some people.  Another major byproduct of that was the band practice noise, or, as we called it, the "Drummer bummers". 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 26, 2014, 01:10:16 PM
Before I started driving it bothered me when people would speed but now that I'm driving, I've realized that some roads have rediculously low speed limits. IMO, I think the DOT purposely posts a speed limit lower than what the actual maximum safe speed is because they know people will speed. No matter what the speed limit is, people are still going to speed, so they probbaly just figure "If we make everything 25 MPH then people won't speed at dangerous speeds" lol. There are no unpaved public roads here so I can't say lol. I've driven on unpaved camp roads (they were actually paved 50-75 years ago lol) but they're lumpy and not really maintained so I keep it at about 15-20. My friends have gone like 40 on them just for fun but it's really bumpy and if you hit a big potholt in the road, something might get messed up with the car. Yeah I agree, it's very important to remain inside the lines. On residential roads with no yellow stripe, I will ride closer to the middle though but when someone else is coming from the other way I'll obviously move over so they have plenty of room to go by.

I always listen to the radio. I actually like the highway a lot. Rush-hour traffic is a pain though lol. Yeah on a road test, if you don't wait three seconds after stopping before you take off it's an instant-fail. Same goes for right turns on red, though if I'm making a right on red and no one is coming, I'll just make the turn without fully stopping, treating it as a "yield" (yield is just stopping if/when necessary, otherwise no stopping/slowing is required). I've never flat-out goen through a red light or a stop sign but I sometimes "roll" through a stop sign, where you slow down but don't come to a full stop. I only do that when I can easily see there is no one else coming.

Not sure how steep a 37% grade is (never understood the whole % grade thing. It's either a steep hill or it's not lol) Was this new "fancy" house off-grid or was this another palce that was on-grid? If it was off grid, I'd imagine they'd need a few generators!

BTW, I picked up a ceramic Cooper pull-chain socket today to replace the T17 preheater and picked up a pair of Sylvania F32T8/835 Octron fluorescents. The Octrons started dim in the middle upon initial start up but I'm going to let them run a while and then leave the off and then try agin and see what happens.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 26, 2014, 06:00:59 PM
In the town I grew up in the main road was a 45MPH speed limit...except for 2 blocks right in front of the police station where it was 25MPH...I wonder why! (Insert sarcastic voice). 
What sort of music do you listen to while driving? Yeah stop/go/stop/go is a pain...I imagine with a stick shift it would be really awful!
37% is steep, trust me.  Both those houses were on grid...city power, water, piped natural gas, all that.  This was in central California.  But here, where I currently live, is off-grid.  It's weird though since my house has city water and a landline phone (Did I mention there's no cell coverage here? There is everywhere else, even in practically the midddle of nowhere just a few miles away, but not here!).  I'd like to see city power though for sure...I'd hook right on immediately unless I managed to develop a nice alternative energy situation (solar/wind/hydro).  There's a creek nearby and another lot we could buy which has waterfall frontage...so hydropower.  We had (Well, have) a 400w 12v wind generator but it siezed up and quit working.  It made a noticeable difference thought when it DID work. Though I currently run a gas (or occasionally a diesel) generator to charge batteries, and when it's not running I have a 2000w inverter that runs stuff in the house.  I'd like a bigger battery bank though, some alternative energy, etc.  though. 
If I had to totally wire a house in a situation like this I'd make most of my lights and anything else that could be 12vDC.  Light bulbs can be bought in 12v, and for a stereo I could use an aftermarket car radio, etc.  Then I would only need an inverter for certain things and it could be turned off when not needed. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 26, 2014, 08:57:17 PM
Ah this was in California... I was thinking Alaska. That explains a lot lol. I'm assuming the roads where you live now are unpaved as well? Do you live on the mainland or an island? How close are the nearest power lines? I guess you don't like living off-grid? I'm sure it's nice not having to pay an electric bill every month but you probably end up spending the same amount if not more on gas and maintenance for the generator and inverter. With the grid, you don't need to do any maintenance lol. Just pay your bill on-time very month. (Speaking of which, NGrid is going to raise our electric rates an astronomical 24%! 11% starting January 1st and the rest of the increase will take affect this summer. This is due to the rising cost of natural gas and the fact that NGrid has to pay for the maintenance they've had to do over the past few years due to storms. This year was a very calm year though, the only thunder storm we had was on the 4th of July. Anything else was just wind and rain!)

You'd need a pretty decent volume of water to produce hydroelectricity so I'm unsure if a creek would provide enough power for a house.

I suppose you could add some 12V circuits in your house and use 12V LED lamps and just run them straight off a battery. Then you could just use the inverter and generator when you power larger appliances. You could have some fluorescents wired up to 120V for when you need a lot of light and just use the 12V lamps otherwise. I wonder if you can just use the existing romex cable for the 12V circuits? Might be a little lossy but may work fine. Might just need to replace the switches with 12V DC ones. You can do some really cool lighting effects with 12V LED tape light. 8)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 26, 2014, 09:20:13 PM
Well, there's no cars/paved roads where I live.  The nearest power lines are like 70 miles away LOL. 
I would like to think it's about the same, if not cheaper.  I can get away with  really conserving and running my generator 4hrs/day, at less than a gallon of gas a day! Yeah I wish I had city power though...
This one would make enough for a couple houses most likely if done right. 
Exactly! Or 12v CFLs.  12v incandescents are horribly inefficient.  Yeah normal #12 Romex would work fine, I've seen other houses here wired like such.  A really common practice before inverters were so popular was to have double systems...one 120v and one 12v.  So you'd have 12v lights, etc. all the time and when running a generator to charge your batteries you had 120v lights.  You can also use regular "Leviton" type switches, receptacles, pullchain light fixtures, etc...again, I see it done all the time.
LED tape light...already seen that done too! Someone I know (actually who gave me that 50w HPS lamp) did that for undercabinet lighting, replacing LOA plastic preheat F15T8 fixtures.  The color was too blue IMO (And I'm a 5000K/6500K kind of guy) but for the low electricity usage it was totally worth it.  Only thing is, the LEDs phosphor degrade and turn to what I call "Lighted apple juice" in color...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 26, 2014, 10:24:43 PM
Oh there's not even any roads? So do you guys just have walking trails that join to make a "neighborhood"? Could you take a picture of you're neighborhood sometime? You could post it in the gallery, I don't think anyone would mind.

Ah cool, you wouldn't even need to do any rewiring! Why not try 12V then? I'm all for saving energy but there's really no good alternative to incandescents right now in incandescent applications (there's halogens but they don't save any serious energy and there's an upcoming 2020 Energy Act that will effect many of the current halogens so we will be saying good-bye to halogens too I guess... LEDs are great in recessed cans (they're already directional anyway lol) but we don't have any recessed cans. LEDs aren't really great in most of our fixtures because most of our fixtures require light shining in 360 degrees to look right. I have LEDs in my bedroom light but they look "odd" lol, though I've gotten used to them. I wish they'd make an LED that actualle used a real A19 incadescent glass envelope, but most of the room in an LED lamp is actually used up by the driver and the LEDs only make up a small portion of the size of the lamp so most of the lamp wouldn't light up. CFLs at least offer 360 degrees of light, though they can't be used in some compact fixtures or in enclosed fixtures. I don't mind the A-shaped CFLs, but I'm not a huge fan of CFLs myself. It's not that I don't like the fluorescent part, I just don't trust them.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 27, 2014, 01:53:30 PM
Yeah and some people have ATVs which they drive around. I'm actually getting one tomorrow.    I'm fine with my 120v system but if I had to wire a new house that's how I'd do it.  I like CFLs, but I prefer something other than the ubiquitous 2700K instant-start spiral...either electronic RS, 4100/5000/6500K, tri tube or A shape, or any combo thereof.  I think that's because I simply find the spirals to be too "normal" or "ordinary" LOL.  Same for the normal "soft white" A-line household incandescents...even a clear or /IF lamp is more interesting to me. 

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 27, 2014, 02:25:42 PM
I like inside frost lamps simply because it's a nicer light. It's the quality of clear lamps without the glare. Soft White lamps have a sort of cloudy light to them. Not as crisp as inside frost or clear. Personally, I'd like to use clear lamps inside enclosed fixtures and then used inside frost in fixtures where the lamp is visible. Currently we have all soft white lamps though except for the outdoor lights, which use clear halogens. I plan to pick out some clear lamps to see how the are inside. The basement halogens have dimmed to the point where 40W incandescents would be more effective (and they're 75W equivalent lamps). The "boob lights" have one lamp socket and they're rated for 60W max, so the basement is too dim IMO.

Have fun with the ATV! (and be careful! I've heard to many stories of people getting killed because they don't use their heads when operating those things!) I've personally never driven one or been in one before.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 27, 2014, 05:51:54 PM
Yeah I like the "halo" effect they give off.  Or maybe it's just nostalgia...I don't know. Never thought the light was "cloudy" but I kinda prefer the fake-frost-you-can-clearly-see-the-filament-through-even-when-off GE "Basic" bulbs (Or the Ace hardware GE-debranded versions of same).  I especially like seeing those above lamps with vertical filaments over the horizontal ones for whatever reason.  I miss the days of even 60w bulbs having vertical filaments...if I had to choose /SWs it would be the 90s-early 2000s GE "Lightstyles for Lifestyles" era GE soft whites with the associated unique package design.  Just something I remember from when I was little LOL. 
I like clear bulbs since "you can see what's happening inside".  I actually have quite a few clear 100w and 60w and at least one 40w, 130v 5000 hour rough-service bulbs from my honorary grandfather's house.  I like them, though I use CFLs instead LOL...and boring 2700K spirals for the most part at that! (Although I've only started buying 5000K or 6500K ones)
"Boob" lights...you're not the first to coin that term! We have two in this house too, brass "trim" and a "clear" ribbed "bowl".  Those actually would be cool with clear lamps.  But they're outfitted with spiral CFLs (2700K).  Guess what? They're even on a dimmer switch! But it doesn't "dim", just goes on and off...was killed by my MSW inverter within a few days.  Though I think the light over a kitchen table should be on a dimmer personally.  And the one incandescent in the house...
I've hears some horror stories too, a neighbor got thrown over the handlebars of one and slid like 20+ feet over gravel and was amazingly not hurt after it hit a stump.  Same guy also fell like 3 stories off scaffolding working on his house, though that one did result in 3 fractured ribs and calling the Coast guard to medivac him out.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 27, 2014, 08:18:19 PM
Never heard of the GE "Basic" bulbs. I've only seen the GE lamps in "crystal clear", "soft white", "ultra soft white", and "reveal". I've noticed that for the past several years the "standard life" 750 or 1000 hour life lamps have been hard to find. I've only really seen the extended life incandescents, which have less lumens. In most residential applications, I'd prefer the extra light over the longer life. And in applications that are hard to access, I probably wouldn't install an incandescent anyways.

I've never payed attention to the filament structure. I still don't really pay attention to it since most of the lamps I deal with aren't clear. I prefer the C-shaped filaments though since they're supported in multiple locations so they're less likely to break. The vertical and horizontal filaments that were straight seemed fragile to me, with only a support at each end. We had 60W Sylvania A19 clear lamps with vertical filaments on the four lights out front in the original brass fixtures we had. After around 7 years or so the original brass fixtures were pretty tarnished so we installed new fixtures, bronze ones with built-in photocells. But in early summer this year, a basketball hit one of the lights so we had to replace it (the ball destroyed the hell out of it lol). Of course we couldn't find an exact replacement so we bought two new ones and replaced both fixtures on the garage (there are two lights near the garage, one on either side of the overhead door; and there's two at the front door, one on either side of the door). The replacements are actually plastic, which I personally would have never bought, but my dad didn't want to spend $50 on a decent pair of outdoor fixtures (and I agree, the price of residential outdoor lighting is rediculous!) The plastic ones don't match the two near the door but they're close enough. When we got the two new fixtures I installed new 52W (75W equivalent) clear Sylvania A19 halogen lamps. One had a broken filament right out of the box, so I just stuck in a 40W clear appliance lamp since it was the only clear lamp I could find. It's by the front door. It's much dimmer than the halogens but but lights lol. When we had replaced the original brass outdoor lights, I had replaced the one on the deck with the 70W PSMH fixture. We used to use the 70W PSMH fixture all the time but since I mounted a light off the deck I don't use the deck light as much lol. It throws more light sideways than downward but whatever... It has a coated protected lamp inside it.

I'm not against dimmers but I personally don't have a use for them. I'd rather just have regular toggle switches. I don't like those "decora" switches (the ones that use the same faceplates as GFCIs). When a lamp burns out I can't tell if it's on or off lol. Toggle switches offer a more clear indication. We don't have any dimmer switches in my house. Any application where a dimmer switch may be considered practical (dining room, bedrooms, kitchen) we have CFLs, since those are the most-used fixtures so we couldn't use dimmers anyway (dimmable CFLs and LEDs are too expensive). I've been installing incandescents in the bedroom fixtures as they burn out though (my bedroom is LED, by brothers ceiling fan's got two CFLs and one 40W incandescent and my parents' room I think has a CFL and an incandescent, maybe two CFLs). The kitchen and dining room fixtures (my kitchen, dining room, and living room are all one big open room) each have four 14W A19 Maxlite CFLs. the light over the kitchen sink has one incandescent and one CFL, or maybe two incandescents... The hallway light has its original 52W Sylvania SuperSaver incandescents. The light over the stairs has all five original incandescents (whatever they are). One of the four boob lights has its original lamp (what ever that may be since I've never opened it up), and the last remaining keyless socket in the garage (out of the original four we had) has its original 90W Sylvania SuperSaver. Also, the vanity over my bathroom sink has all three original 60W soft white medium base globe lamps. Not sure of the make but I think the bases are marked 60W 120V. The motion sensor floods we never use also have their original lamps. My closet light also has its original lamp. The other two closet fixtures have had new lamps installed. The originals were Sylvania F20T12/CWs, made in Canada in 2003.

About the closet lights, my parent's closet lamp had burned out, so they bought a replacement, a GE Ecolux F20T12 daylight. It had a broken electrode so it rectifies. They found that irritating, so they swapped it with my brother's closet light, as he never uses his anyway. Then the lamp they took from his burned out (well, it wouldn't light properly; it would only light at the ends or something weird) so they installed another lamp, which is a Sylvania F20T12/CW, made in the USA. Mine is the only one with the original Canadian Sylvania lamp, though it doesn't have the original ballast, since I converted it to preheat lol. I will probably convert it back to trigger start when I move out. I should also note that the three closet lights have tube guards as well. My closet light's ballast is a January 2003 Universal, so I assume the other two have the same ballasts.

So seven fixtures in my house have the original lamps (15 lamps) in my house. Not bad for 11 and-a-half years! (BTW, like the new avitar? It's a parody of a "No Parking" sign. ;D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 28, 2014, 05:16:05 PM
Their finish is kinda like the currently-made GE halogens.  I've noticed that too, in almost any situation I'm willing to sacrafice lamp life for more lumens. (And more efficiency!) There are only five incandescent lamps in use in my house, and two of those are seldom-used 250w infared heatlamps.  The other three are in a walk-in pantry, a home office, and a closet.  The latter two of those bulbs were there when we moved in...never changed them over to CFLs since they're almost never used and the pantry light I stuck an incandescent back in since it's unheated in there and in the winter a CFL just doesn't cut it according to my dad...granted it was pretty dim and that light is only on for like 60 seconds at a time anyway!
I'm kinda suprised the only fluorescent lights in your whole house were in closets of all possible places, but yes, bare-bulb incandescents could be considered a fire hazard in a closet I guess so maybe it was a code thing.  I bet the tube guards were required by code though.
I mainly like CFLs since they can be found in cooler color temps...I personally happen to prefer 5000K or 6500K. 
I think it's uniqie, I did get a laugh out of it.  I need to change mine sometime...not sure what to put there though.  Maybe the Advance slimline ballast pic?
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on December 29, 2014, 10:52:12 AM
Ah I think they're just soft white lamps but not as much powder is used with making them. My GE halogens are all fully-coated with the soft white powder though. I have a 24-pack contractor's case of "Standard" 100W 130V Sylvania incandescents from Lowe's that have a very light soft white coating inside. It's thin enough where you can see the filament inside the lamp through the coating and the coating is pretty uneven. One side of the lamp may have almost nothing while the other side may look like a real soft white lamp lol. The coating isn't uniform between different lamps either. Some lamps in the box look like typical soft whites while others look like clear lamps with some light fogging on the inside lol.

Wow only five? I guess on inverter electricity you have to be energy-wise though. I don't have a pantry in my house. Is it pretty much a walk-in closet for food? We have a good amount of cupboards in the kitchen, some of which we have food in and we have a coat closet right off the kitchen that we store ceral, oatmeal, maple syrup, unopened ketchups and mustards, etc. We also keep cereal, 24-packs of water bottles, coffee mix, etc in the laundry room in the basement, right under the F30T12 upside down undercabinet light actually! (BTW, the lamp stopped rectifying. Turns out an electrode was broken so the lamp wasn't heating at that end. I jiggled the electrode around and it made contact. So I shut it off and turned it back on and the initial start up "welded" the electrode back into place lol)

Where else would you suspect fluorescents to be located in my house? I suspect it's a code thing as well, since my cousins' house has single F40T12 NPF strip lights in the closets mounted on the ceiling. Theire closets are all walk-ins though whereas our closets (aside from my parents') are not walk-ins. Also, our fluorescents are wall-mounted over the door as opposed to ceiling-mounted. I didn't even think about the tube guards as being a code thing. I generally dislike tube gaurds but since they've always had the tube guards I'm used to them. My closet is 2ft deep, 5ft wide, and 8ft ceiling height (like the rest of the house) so that gives you an idea on the side of the closet.

I know for a fact that the basement lights were layed out on a minimum code allowance basis. I believe light fixture boxes can't be any more than 8 or 10 feet from each other, and thats exactly how far apart they are in my basement. There were no other fluorescents in the house other than the three F20T12 single lamp strips in the closets. The garage had two keyless ceramic sockets with 90W Sylvania SuperSaver lamps and the utility room and laundry room both each had one keyless socket with a 90W SuperSaver lamp. I still have all the keyless sockets, as I plan to re-install them when I move out. I'll probably buy 150W or 200W incandescents, if they're still around, for that extra light output. I like 3500K and 5000K for linear fluorescents but for incandescent-applications I like the color of incandescents. I wouldn't want daylight CFLs in my living room or bedroom or bathoom or kitchen, etc. Maybe in an unfinished basement but in that case I'd want linear fluorescents.

BTW, I think tomorrow I am going to my Aunt Kathy's house, where I will change the rest of those outlets and hopefully replace those two remaining Western Electric F20/TS fixtures. I will be disconnecting the F90T17 preheater but I'm not taking it (yet). I will eventually down the road take the T17 fixture (she flat-out said I can have it) and hopefully will get the 8ft F40T12 preheater too, since it's OLD! I will hopefully have room for the T17 in the spring or summer but as for the 8ft preheater, there are no places big enough in my house or in the shed where I can store a light of that size, and unfortunately it's not a multi-section light, pretty sure it's one 8ft section. I will be disconnecting the T17 and installing a pull-chain socket in its place with a 100W incandescent in its place. As for the F20T12 WE fixtures, the pull-chain one will be replaced with a pull-chain incandescent socket and the switch-controlled WE fixture will be replaced with a F32T8 industrial (the twin to the fixture I used to replace the Harmony House fixture in my grandpa's shop's bathroom).

Hmm Maybe the slimline or maybe a warm white mainlighter, since you have so many lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 29, 2014, 12:04:49 PM
Yeah that's kinda my theory too, though somebody like Dave Silverliner could confirm this. 
Yeah only five! (Well, maybe a few hundred right now since I still have my Christmas lights up and many of those are incandescent minis, C7s, C9s, or G20s. 
Yeah it's basically a 6X8-ish walk in closet for food.  I leave the window open in there most of the time to help it stay cooler in there but as a result a CFL is too dim at first and it never really gets a chance to warm up since that light is only on for like 30-90 seconds at a time LOL. 
Nice that you got that lamp going again!  Curious to see how long it lasts now!
Yeah my mom's walk-in closet had an incandescent but it was enclosed in a glass globe, as was the hall closet.  Same in my dad's closet here.  Still it's not a bare bulb that could touch clothes, boxes, etc.  Mom's house was buit in 1988 and the part of this one where said closet is located would probably be 70s-early, early 80s. Not sure when the closet was wired though...it's done in "white" Romex as is the vast majority of my house, even parts done in the 90s-ish. (Or 2000s if stuff was left over which is also possible).  Although 30+ years ago pics of this house show a couple light fixtures and a (vintage) TV and VCR so there must have been something going on (Which would be the 70s "black" Romex in the oldest parts of the house).  (Thankfully it's not aluminum).  And some additions, like that Lithonia "Basket" wraparound, have been yellow, though I got that only-a-year-old  yellow stuff from a house teardown and, you guessed it, re-used it here. 
Isn't your cousins' house (or that part of it anyway I should say) from like 2006? Then it might have been code.  I read someplace that new houses built in California were supposed to have fluorescent lighting in the kitchen, though I also see it being taken out, namely those 70s-80s illuminated drop ceilings being ripped out and 4 recessed cans being put in their place.  I'd say except for where code insists perhaps, fluorescent lighting is generally falling out of favor in residential situations like kitchens, bathrooms, etc.  If anything, I'm suprised places like garages and basements don't have it more, for example your house built in 2003!

Nah I'd replace with F32T8 shoplights or wraparounds when you move out unless the rest of your family doesn't want fluorescent lighting in those places anymore.  Leave the T17 hooked up till you take it! Or at least that's what I'd do.  But have fun either way and take pics and share replacement stories!

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 29, 2014, 05:17:59 PM
My dad's parents (my late-grandpa, grandma, and aunt's house where the F40 Western Electrics and the T17 are) have incandescents in the closet. My grandma has a pullchain fixture with a 15W incandescent in it and she's got a window in her close too. My aunt and late-grandpa don't have closet lights though. The three bedrooms don't have ceiling boxes either, the lights are wall-mount fixtures and have those black stick switches that you turn 180-degrees.  Their bathroom light and the hall light at the top of the stairs are the only lights controlled by wall switches. My mom's mom's and step-dad's house (the one who scraps) doesn't have closet lights in any of the closets (none are walk-ins). My mom's dad's and step-mom's house (the grandpa who has the T12 troffers in the basement and the autobody shop) has a keyless incandescent in the master closet and no light in the other closets. All of these homes are older homes though that likely predate the code issue if there is a code about it.

What's wrong with "white" romex? That's what is used as the standard romex now. white is 14-guage romex, yellow is 12-guage, and orange romex has 10-gauge conductors. The most recent codes I'm familiar with when it comes to gaueg sizes is that bathrooms must have 12-guage (yellow) romex wiring and one receptacle my be located at the sink counter (GFCI protected). Standard height outlets on the wall are not permited "X" feet from a tub due to what would happen if a moron tried using a hairdryer in a bathtub lol. I THINK kitchens need to be 12-guage too and any built-in appliance must have its own dedicated ciruit (fridge, dish washer, electric stove (well that's 240V anyway) and a microwave, if it's wall mounted like mine is. There must be a GFCI-protected receptacle wired directly to the main breaker next to the main breaker to test for power. My garage has one and unfortunately it's the only outlet in the garage too. We'd like to add another outlet or two but the garage is finished so the new outlet would have to be surface mounted. We cant run it off the existing receptacle either because code specifies that the breaker panel receptacle must be on its own circuit wired directly to the main breaker (well, not directly I guess since it obviously needs its own breaker otherwise it would take 200A to trip and the wire would melt lol)

BTW, did a little digging and turns out that incandescent fixtures CAN be used but they MUST be fully-enclosed (unless they're recessed) and must meet specific clearance requirements to be used. Fluorescent lighting may be used (recessed or surface mount) but these too must meet certain clearance requirements from storage racks and exposed tubes MUST have tube guards (the NPF F40 strips at my cousins' house DO NOT have them! And yep, their house is from 2005 or 2006 I think). This is the 2006 code I'm reading from though so if their house is from 2005 they might not need the guards, but my house has them. Maybe prior to 2006 only certain exposed tube fluorescents needed tube guards... Anyway, all pendant fixtures are strictly prohibited from closets or storage spaces. all fixtures must be surface mounted or recessed.  Here's the article.  (http://www.juneau.org/cddftp/documents/ClosetLights.pdf) A little confusing IMO, but as it turns out, a wall-mounted fluorescent is the only thing that is code-compliant for my closet. My closet is idential to my brother's. And if those closets need fluorescents, it only makes sense to just keep things the same for my parents' closet. My closet is almost the smallest size allowed for it to contain a light fixture. There is 18.5" between the back wall and the fluorecent tube, as the strip is wall-mounted over the door. There is 6.5" horizontally between the shelf and the fluorescent light, so if I were to install an F24T12/HO strip in my closet, it might not meet code, as HO strips are deeper than standard RS/TS ones so the tube would be pushed out closer to the shelf.

That's stupid that they require fluorescent lighting in the kitchen in California. Fluorescents would look terrible in my kitchen since our open-concept kitchen/dining room/living room has a cathedral ceiling sorta like  this picture here,  (http://homesbyhomes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Modern-Living-Room-Design-with-White-Brick-Fireplace-Glass-Walls-and-Cathedral-Ceiling.jpg) so fluorescents wouldn't look good, although technically a CFL is a fluorescent light so if the contractor was to specify regular fixtures with GU24 sockets, GU24 CFLs could be used and edison screw incandescents wouldn't fit.

Fluorescent lighting is typically seen as "utilitarian" to most people. Generally, it's only used where a lot of light is needed without making the kWh dial spin like a helicopter blade lol. But now with CFLs and LEDs, low power consumption can be achieved by using traditional fixtures. Also, in the contractor's eyes, they want to keep costs down. Keyless ceramic incandescent sockets cost about $2-3 whereas a decent fluorecent fixture costs around $30 and up. Most people aren't paying attention to what kind of basment lighting is present in a house when considering to buy a house so that's the contractor's way of saving money. Nothing is stopping the future home owner from installing linear fluorescents, but like I said earlier, most people probably find it "utilitarian", even wrap lights or cloud/puff fixtures, and probably prefer more compact light sources. If it wasn't for me, my parents probably would have just bought higher-wattage CFLs for dealt with the dim light but now my parents are used to the bright light so they're not going to want to revert back to the "old" when I move out lol.

Eh, I guess I probably should leave linear fluorescents but I can buy a 65W CFL for about $15 at Lowes or Home Depot and get plenty of light at half the cost of a linear fluorescent fixture. I'm not looking to spend a lot of money replacing my own fixtures when I move out on my own lol. As for the T17, it's wired to a remote ceiling-mounted pull chain switch (just a switch, no fixture/socket, which is mounted to a junction box on the ceiling. I'm going to remove the pull-chain switch and replace with with a normal pull-chain incandescent. The T17 will remain up but disconnected (she doesn't use it anyway; I'm the only one who has ever turned it on since my great-grandpa got Alzheimer's in the 90s and eventually passed away a couple years after I was born). This way, when I am ready for it, I can just go in and remove the fixture without doing any rewiring or shutting off any breakers. With the 8ft tandem preheater, it's wired to a plug and it plugs into the wall so I wouldn't need to do any rewiring anyway.

I'm trying to get my great-aunt's basement lights first since they're only 2ft long and can be tucked away in the shed easily. Plus I don't often go over her house since my parents are allergic to her cat lol. I am too but my allergies don't bother me that much. Plus, now that I'll have removed all of her F20T12s on the property, I can take the other half of her stash of KEN-RAD F20/W lamps. :D

After my great-aunt's fixtures, I'll move onto my grandma's/late-grandpa's fluorescents. I'm eyeing a few F32T8 2-lamp wraps at the ReStore to replace the three Western Electric fixtures. Hopefully they're there the next time I go to the ReStore... I already have a F32T8 shoplight to replace the T17 over his desk in the basement. Then there's my cousins' grandma's garage and basement lights... I sorta feel weird asking her if I can replace them though since she's not related to me. Probably the only reason she let me relamp the preheaters was because I had brought the lamps with me when I came over my cousins' house (their houses are joined sorta like an in-law house, but their house was added on to the original house around 2005-2006 and have totally separate basements and what not, though they apparently share the same utilities (they have their own breaker panel but both houses share the same address, same electric meter, etc since it was the only way my aunt and uncle could afford their own home, since prior to that, they were living in a rental home. Their unfinished basement has seven keyless sockets all wired on the same switch. I would have wired them to at least two different switches since the basement could be split into two halfs but whatever... As for my aunt Kerri's and uncle Roger's house (where I got the 1950s long-john preheater and the light for Joe in Ontario) I haven't heard anything new about the remaining three fixtures.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 29, 2014, 08:07:06 PM
BTW, I opened up the "boob light" that has never been opened before and turns out the lamp inside is a Canadian Extended Life Philips 60W soft white marked 9H, that's August 1999! Wowee! Naturally, I took it out and swapped it out for a newer Satco inside frost 57W "energy efficient" incandescent lamp. When I saw the Philips logo I was expecting a 40W DuraMax or something but when I saw that it was a Canadian 60W Philips from the 90s I had to save it! I guess the electrician had some NOS lamps he was using up when he put bulbs in the fixtures. Makes me wonder how old the lamps in the five-lamp chandelier over the stairs are... The electrician seems to have used a mix of Philips and Sylvania lamps, no GEs. Any GEs were put in by us (besides the halogens in the basement, which need to be replaced, there's only one GE incandescent that I'm aware of, a 40W soft white from my late-grandpa's an grandma's dining toom chandeir, as I replaced the four 40W GEs with 43W halogens so they could get more light in there without raising the energy bill a ton. I would have snuck in CFLs to get the CFLs out of my house (LOL) but the fixture's on a dimmer and CFLs can't be used (well inexpensive ones can't and besides, dimmable CFLs don't dim reliably anyway).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 29, 2014, 08:13:11 PM
Interesting, and ironic that it happened to be the website for a city not that far from me!
Nothing is wrong with it at all.  Everything is #12 in my house, except for some #10 in a few places.  Originally stuff was done with black #12 in metal boxes, then white with blue plastic "Carlon" type boxes (Eagle devices I might add) then stuff we've done is either with leftover white or salvaged yellow and blue boxes.  When I saved the yellow stuff I also got some of those "Ideal" type connectors which I much prefer over wirenuts.  My house was originally built, I'd guess, between 1971 and 1979, though I don't know an exact year for sure.  
Some of the code issues my house has though are: (Get ready to laugh)
-No GFCIs in the bathroom/kitchen (No faceplates either actually).  None outside either.  
-Is Romex on an open-beam ceiling a problem, even stapled properly? (It's going to fluorescent wraparounds in my kitchen).
-Breaker panel in the bathroom
-Same panel with all the grounds braided together in a pasta dish of copper.
-Legend on said panel "lying" about some things by now (Though that's less of an issue).
-Holes in the faceplate of same panel where there used to be other breakers and there are now none
-No cable clamps/strain reliefs on said panel where the wires enter/exit
-Romex run about a foot below a ceiling going somewhere (That will eventually be fixed).
-20 amp main breaker, #12 Romex going into panel for a main feed, then some of the branch breakers are 30 amp!
-Romex running along bottom of wall/floor to outlets in plastic boxes without faceplates where they couldn't even be added since the boxes are side-nailed
-No outlets/lights in one room, so I went to a ceramic pullchain light (Without lightbulb, pullchain broken off, and socket shell missing), plugged into it's convenicence outlet (Those alone should be banned IMO), then that's feeding other outlets (I did this one; I know it's wrong but I did it anyway)
-And a few others.  (I know, it sounds really horrible, there's no enforced codes where I live so people can do some really bad hack jobs (I've seen some even better ones).
-And half the original house is fed by one breaker.  Including the main kitchen outlets.
HOWEVER...interestingly enough the self-proclaimed electrician who did the vast majority of my house actually used to live a few houses down the block and I've since met them.  They have some good practices though.  I might add he REALLY liked 4-plex outlets...they're everywhere in my house.  But they sure come in handy when "Wall warts" cover up the other half of the outlet!
So I don't think my electrical system would pass an inspection but it works fine.  I've admittedly done some screwed-up additions too, i.e. no strain relief since I didn't have one.  
Wow, the only person to turn it on since the 90s! How old are the lamps then?
Oh wow! NOS for sure! That's true a lot in my house though since stuff I've collected is installed in parts of the house newer than that fixture/lamp.  For example, the Lithonia slimline is in a room added in 2000.

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 29, 2014, 09:52:18 PM
I forgot to mention I discovered today that radio station I discovered within the last month or so comes in really clearly on the beach in front of my house...I totally discovered it by accident too! I just love those headset radios...I have several.
I also painted a wall in my living room today (Well, Kilz primer over new/unpainted drywall prior to a latex topcoat. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 29, 2014, 10:33:14 PM
Gee, you really have some crazy hack jobs in your house! lol Fortunately a lot of them sound like easy fixes. Just gotta get some face plates and GFCIs and that right there solves half your issues lol. If you have multiple gauge wires on the same circuit you can add that to the list of violations since code says you must use the same guage wire for any given circuit. Since you're off-grid, the code really doesn't apply to you but it's not a bad idea to try and ahere to it. I'll admit with my light fixtures I haven't always used romex clamps on the cords. Normally it's because I don't want to bust off a KO if I don't have to, so I'll feed the cord though a hole meant for mounting the fixture or something lol. If you were to join the grid though, you'd have to bring your house up to code before the utility would even consider adding you onto the grid though.

As for the romex on an open ceiling, no, it's not a code violation, as long as you follow the contour of the beams (don't wire perpeddicular to the beams). But i've seen electricians wire across the beams, so I guess it's not a huge deal... My house doesn't have any wires going across the beams though. The romex goes to the wall/head joist and them runs back out so that the romex is never "suspeneded" between two joists. When I added a keyless socket in my grandparent's basement, I did tack the romex perpendicular to the joists, but there's already a ton of wiring done by an electrician down there that runs across the beams.

Why do you think they should take the receptacles off the pull-chain fixtures? The F90T17 lamps in my great-aunt's T17 are GE F90T17/CWs, with the GENERAL (GE) ELECTRIC etch, from the 80s or before. They're identical to the lamp in my grandpa's T17 so those were probably the lamps in it when they were initially removed.

I should add that the Philips lamp has a horizontal straight filament, supported in the middle and at the two ends.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 30, 2014, 12:18:45 PM
I didn't know the thing about multiple-guage wires...honestly that seems a little stupid IMO.  I can see using, say, #10 at the beginning, but if you added an outlet shouldn't #12 suffice, or #14 for a light fixture onto that at an even later date? Yeah it doesn't really apply but I agree it should be followed, particularly if I ever tried to get fire insurance, or I might have to upgrade things in order to sell my house.  It was a dump when we moved in but I imagine there was some sort of a clause about it being "unlivable" at the time (It had been empty for 8 years). 
In addition to no cable clamps/strain reliefs, the other somewhat-bad thing I will admit to doing is using 2-prong cords for some things that should really have 3.  Case in point, any rapid/trigger start fluorescent light I've found is wired like that by me LOL.  Is a ground required for a slimline to start reliably? In freezing temperatures (Granted, with 60w lamps) mine only lights the primary side lamp at partial brightness.  I've touched it before and had it come on though.  With only one lamp lit it doesn't flicker as wildly though! It gets usably bright but flickers like crazy at temps below about 60 degrees, and below about 50 it never warms up. 
Not sure about the code thing there, part of me wants to say (And I might even bring this up in such a case) that such things that were considered violations were done before the grid came through and should thus be grandfathered in, though I agree any new work should be up to or exceeding code and might need a permit taken out and later inspected. 
My mom's ex-husband (from before my dad) was trying to sell his house last year and they ran into a problem: building permits for various things had been taken out years ago by the previous owner when some remodeling/rennovating was done but had never been inspected/signed off and I'm pretty sure they made him take his house off the market until these issues were fixed...my comment was, what are they going to do? Tear up the drywall to inspect the insulation, vapor barrier, wiring and plumbing? LOL.  They were able to find some of the signed-off permits eventually I think though. 
My dad's girlfriend's house was a totally different story (and it was on grid too).  One of the previous owners/renters had done some excellent hack jobs.  It was a singlewide mobile home with a wanigan (addition for extra living/storage space added onto one side).  In addition to itself being far from code I'm sure, the wiring in there was pretty unique: first of all it was controlled off the light switch for what had been the porch light before that was added (So you could literally turn off a whole room).  Also it was done with black SJTW-looking wire which had no boxes (ceramic pullchain lights with wires going between bottom of shelf and ceramic fixture, no box), lamp "zip" cord going to a doorbell transformer I think, you get the idea.  And this was connected to the grid but obviously done under-the-radar and I'm sure it would instantly fail any sort of inspection. 
Sounds typical of Philips lamps of that era, they really liked to use horizontal filaments.  Can you post a pic of this particular specimen?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 30, 2014, 08:23:32 PM
So I just talked to my godparents (M-400A) and the streetlight (a 400w HPS  FCO something) on a major intersection near their house is still out! (It was cycling this time last year and was the source of an inside joke all it's own; we were joking I could turn off all the streetlights since whenever we'd drive/walk under/by them they'd go out! (That town simply had a lot of cyclers but we made fun of it).  Anyway it apparently totally died around Daylight Savings' end (Oh, great! When it's needed most!) and my godmother reported it and 2+ months later it's STILL out!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on December 30, 2014, 10:29:13 PM
The the guage thing is mostly for clarification that EVERYTHING must be the same guage on a circuit, which covers gowing from a thicker wire to a thinner wire and also from a thinner wire to a thicker one. I guess it gets rid of any confusion, both at the person doing the wiring (they know that no matter what, the guage size must be the same and don't have to remember which direction they can change the gauge) and also for the inspector. It eliminates confusion for the inspector since they can look quickly and see that everything is uniform.

Eh don't worry, I wire ungrounded cords onto things that should be grounded too. I'm also guilty of using a grounded cord but simply "capping off" the ground wire inside the fixture isntead of attaching it to a screw in the fixture because I'm too lazy to either add a screw or loosen the ballast bolt to wedge the ground wire between the fixture and ballast case, which I often do if there's no spare screw. I would say that ground probably isn't needed for slimlines because they're not a rapid start system. For HOs, a ground might be useful but I doubt the lights at my grandpa's shop (aside from the troffers in the office, which was done in the 70s) are grounded and his HOs and slimlines start fine. Ah we extended our deck and we didn't even go to the city for a permit lol. Hopefully it doesn't bite us in the ass later on but a permit seemed like a waste of money for such a small project in our opinions. If you were to join the grid, you would definitely have to bring your house up to code in relation to its age (if your house was built in the 80s you'd have to bring it up to at least the 80s code and if you have an addition put on in the early 2000s, you'd probably have to make that addition comply with the codes of that time). Beyond that, I don't know. The utility or fire marshal would probably require an inspection to make sure there are no crazy violations.

Sounds like I need to mail your godparents a 400W HPS lamp (I have a couple) lol.

OK, I was at my Great Aunt's house today and repalced those last outlets. I also disconnected the T17 and replaced the "Mega Pullchain" as I call it, with a pullchain incandescent. She's getting the ceiling re-done in the garage so I removed the reflector from the T17 fixture and stuck it in the tool shed for now. The lamps are still in the disconnected fixture. An inside-etch GE and an outside etch GE, both with the GENERAL (GE) ELECTRIC etch. Once is EOL, not sure which one. Damn those things are huge!

I replaced both of the F20T12 Western Electric fixtures, the pull-chain one with a pull-chain incandescent, and the switch-controlled one with a 2X F32T8 fixture. She's very, very happy with the F32T8 fixture. It's very BRIIIGHT! It's got two GE SPX35 lamps (the 2006 ones from school, just like the garage strips have) and a Sylvania LBF ballast. Despite low ballast factor, the thing really is bright! Lights that whole section of the basement nicely. As for the WE fixtures, both needed a good cleaning, especially the pull-chain one. Three KEN-RAD lamps were distributed among the fixtures and one GENERAL (GE) ELECTRIC inside etch F20T12/WHITE lamp. In total, I came home with six F20T12s, three KEN-RAD F20/W lamps, one NOS Sylvania F20/CW from the 90s (with mis-aligned endcaps- GRR!), one GE F20/W, and one KEN-RAD F20/CW lamp. Not sure why there was one KEN-RAD cool white, since all the other half-dozen KEN-RAD lamps I originally got were whites but whatever...

The switch-controlled WE fixture looks as if it was NOS when it was installed. No tarnishing on the aluminum reflectors and no surface rust stains on the fixture. The reflectors are flawless and shiney. I cleaned both out and they were made by Day-Brite lighting, like my grandpa's F40 WE lights, as opposed to the third F20 WE light from the tool shed, which was made by Pittsburg Reflector Co. The Day-Brite ones have GE sockets too instead of Bryant, though the sockets are identical other than the brand. The fixtures are identical to the Pittsburg one too. The Day-Brite fixture ballasts are both GE HPF Bonusline ballasts, marked FA, meaning June 1965! The ballasts have yellow labels and non-reseting thermal protection. Fortunately, GE was quick to ditch cloth wiring, so the ballasts have nice and plyable rubber-insulated wires.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 31, 2014, 03:26:58 PM
Yeah I know they made it mandatory certain guages be certain colors so a house inspector could easily ID them. 
I've only correctly grounded a fluorescent once...that Lithonia "basket" wraparound.  In that case I wrapped the ground wire around a drywall screw securing the fixture into the wood subfloor above.  There's a pic of it somewhere in my gallery. 
My Bonusline-ballasted Sears shoplight is done like you describe: a ground wire underneath the ballast case.  But the cord is spliced with a 2-prong plug, so...BTW every one of those Sears shoplights I've ever seen (They're like the fixture equivalent of a Mainlighter, Lifeline, or Westy blackender, AKA vintage but common) is either hardwired or has a spliced cord of aftermarket plug of some sort, leading me to think maybe they came without plugs? IDK but it makes sense.  The ones from the shop were I'm building the knife block had no cords whatsoever, they were hardwired. 
LOL if it's an issue just tear the extension off if you guys  decide to sell the house or something...problem solved!
If you're gonna do that, you'll need quite a few, in various wattages, since there were a LOT of cyclers in that town...that's why it was the butt of an inside joke and so hilarious, we'd drive under them and they'd go out! And their garage door opener would never close if I was there, it would go down, stop, and go back up.  (But that was often the cat's fault, (In fact one of my mom's cats), he'd see it closing and try to run under it, sending it back up.
But I have a 400w Sylvania new in sleeve I could send LOL...and both times I went to the ReStore nearby I looked for a 250 watter for the M-400A.  I should've checked the Home Depot nearby but never thought of it LOL.

When are you actually taking the T17 light? Soon I hope? Even if not start hunting for lamps now, they're only getting harder to find aren't they? Didn't GE quit making them, and they were the last to make them anyway?
Was the Sylvania in a WE fixture? Careful-the GE might be beryllium...I think the consensus on LG was that the Ken-Rads weren't but I dunno about the GE...so be careful!
Are the HPF ballasts rated ONLY for 20w lamps? Did you bring the 2' stuff home yet?
Yeah you'll have a very well-lit house someday for sure. 

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 31, 2014, 05:45:22 PM
I'm thinking the Sear Shoplights didn't come with plugs. My harmony house shoplite from my grandpa's shop's bathroom had a wire-on plug (ungrounded). My Power Lighting Products (or whatever the company is called) shoplight says that a grounded cord must be added to the shoplight. So apparently it didn't even come wired with a cord, but has no KOs, so it HAS to be wired to a cord or at least have the romex shoved through the cord hole lol.

I don't know when I'm taking the T17 fixture TBH. It's not going anywhere so I have time. The thing is really cumbersome too; a real b!tch to take down. I don't know what to expect weight-wise for the upper housing. I would have taken the whole thing down but I can't take it now anyways so it would only sit in her garage or the tool shed anyway. The light is hard-mounted, so it's going to be REAL fun trying to take that thing down! I told Joe that if he comes down into the RI area sometime from Canada I will have this T17 set aside for him, since I've come to the conclusion that I don't need both. One is enough for me, since I'd only use it for display. That will leave me with four lamps for the one fixture. I told him I'd supply starters but no lamps. The reflector is porcelained on both sides. The louvered door is painted steel (which needs to be repainted) and the top housing is painted steel too (in pretty good condition from what I could tell). The ballast is a massive GE, with half the label pretty black, but the wires seemed flexible for the most part. The fixture is missing both endcaps unfortunatle, though the grandpa's has both and they're just plain-old flat steel like a modern fixture (but 10 times thicker lol) so they should be fairly easy to replicate.

Yeah I really should find some lamps but I can't afford an entire case of lamps and even the selling price for one of two lamps would backrupt me lol. Fortunately my late-grandpa has the foresight to buy two spare tubes for his fixture (although the original tube he put in it when he installed it ended up outliving him...) so I have two never-been-used lamps. His T17 has one working lamp installed in it and my great-aunt's has two lamps but one EOL, so that leaved four working tubes total. And if I give Joe my great-aunt's T17, I will have four tubes for my grandpa's T17, which I'll keep (not taking that down for a WHILE; that one will be even harder in their dark basement with new AC air ducts vitrually surrounding the fixture on all sides and god help me if the T17 is wired to the same breaker as the rest of the basement lol) Yep, GE quit making them, meaning no more T17s are made. Funny how the T17s evaded all the lamp bans. GE just quit making them due to low demand. I guess whatever place had a ton of them left in service (to keep the demand in place) upgraded to T8 or closed its doors...

The Sylvania is NOS, a spare in the basement. The GE is from the 60s or 70s, definetely not the toxic phosphors (it's really a F20T12/W lamp reading right off the etch but I shortened it to F20/W). Fortunately I don't have any toxic phosphorse fluorescent lamps. My earliest lamp, the Daylight GE lamp, is an early halophosphate. No, the ballasts are rated for F20T12s, F15T12s, and F15T8s. Not rated for F14T12s. The ballast is rated at 0.44A, so probably around full-power. With the reflectors the lamps are really bright but without the reflector the lamps aren't as bright lol (just not as much light reflected). And yes, I brought home both F20 fixtures and washed them out. See LG for pics. 8) The only fluorescent stuff left at my great-aunt's is the 8ft tandem F40 preheater with the loud ballast(s) and the T17 fixture. (well then there's the F32T8s; the fixture I put up in the basement and the two strips I converted to T8 in the garage, but I'm not interested in getting those back). I might have to leave the 8ft tandem fixture behind since I cannot take it until I get my own place. I know my mom wouldn't allow it in the house, and there's really no place I could put it. Oh how I wish I lived in a ranch house with a nice big unfinished basement. :( The T17 at her house is coming home with me no matter what, just not at least until the summer.

So now I guess the next "phase" of "Operation Obtain" would be my grandma's/late-grandpa's house, so the four F40/RS WE fixtures and ultimately the T17 fixture. Probably can't fit both T17s though so I'd get my great-aunt's first and then my late-grandpa's, since I can get to my grandparents' house easily if something were to happen. I'm eying a few mint condition F32T8 wrap lights at the ReStore. If they're there next time I go, I'll grab three of them, which will replace the F40T12 WE lights. My luck they won't be there... I want three identical lights to replace the WE garage lights so I hope at least three are left. I will have to take apart the WE lights to remove them though lol. The F20s weigh as much as a typical F40/RS shoplight so the F40 WE fixtures must weigh a ton! I'll literally just take them apart while they're installed (take off the hinged covers, socket brackets, and ballast) and them just remove the top housing with the endcaps on lol. The fixtures are hard-mounted to the drywall ceiling and wired through the ceiling via a KO on the top.

When I installed the F32T8 shoplight in my great-aunt's basement, I had her hold the other end up with a broom stick (she stood on the floor holding a broomstick against the fixture lol) while I screwed in my end (with the ballast) and then I screwed in her end of the fixture. The F32T8 fixture was pretty easy to install since it already had holes for a 16"OC ceiling joist mount and the electronic ballast is a feather compared to a big magnetic brick ballast.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 31, 2014, 08:38:17 PM
Oh I've seen plenty of el-cheapo F40/RS shoplights with "Romex just shoved through the hole".  Yeah those Metalux/Gibson troffers I have were also "fun" to remove, in part since we had the wonderful privelage of doing so with the power on!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 31, 2014, 09:51:59 PM
Ah with the Gibson troffers, to shut the power off, just short the hot and neutral and watch how fast the breaker trips lol. Wait, why didn't you just turn off the switch? How many people did it take to remove the light? I usually mount my lights alone, that's why I like the suspend them. Suspending them and having them plug in makes it really easy to swap fixtures too!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 01, 2015, 01:01:27 AM
Should've done that actually! But we didn't, especially since all the OTHER lights were on the same breaker.  In hindsight we should have at least shut off the wall switch but oh well, no harm, no foul.  It took two of us...first of all the lamps are a PITA to install/remove in those (By now I have it mastered though).  Then we spent an eternity trying to get the channel covers off...I think we used a flathead screwdriver and they were very stubborn! (Meanwhile the ballasts behind them were still warm, buzzing, and of course powered).  Finally, after getting the first channel cover off and being greeted with an Advance Kool-Koil I decided they were worth taking home with me.  The other one (A PITA too) had the perfect Universal Therm-O-Matic ballast, still used daily at my house.  I mainly grabbed the fixtures for their ballasts but ended up saving them and making one of them a 3-lamper.  The fixtures were held up with those annoying drywall toggle bolts, which let go at inopportune times (Actually happened with two of the very same fixtures a couple years before that, they fell while being worked on (they had started sagging before that) and from what I hear a lamp or two broke too...did I mention this room's main purpose has been a kindergarten/1st grade-ish classroom? My school has it all, mercury thermostats, PCB ballasts, T12s (And F40CWs still in use), you get the idea.  I think mercury thermostats and PCB ballasts are technically illegal in public school buidings but considering it was built in 1979 and 1985 and not much updating done since it's all still there and in daily use.  Only bad thing is the dozens of magnetic  ballasts buzzing loudly can actually be annoying at time...you don't hear that sound as often nowadays though!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 01, 2015, 11:39:14 AM
Why were they being removed? Were they upgraded to T8 or something? Or did you steal the fixtures? :P LOL

I probably would have shut off the switch (even if all the other lights went out too) and then plugged in a worklight or used a flash light (I always bring a flashlight or a home made "work light" with me when I know I'll be doing any electrical work just in case). Then after shutting off the switch, remove the tubes, balalst channel cover, and then disconnected the leads and wrapped them (individually) in tape. Then turn the power back on so I have a ton of light and remove the fixture. I'm too much of a wimp to even relamp with the power on lol. I always shut the power off before changing lamps or doing any work on the fixture. I don't like to relamp incandescent fixtures if I don't know if the power is on or off because I'm afraid of getting burned, since those lamps heat up fast. That's why I hate those 2-pole switches, since you can't tell if the light is on or off, since up doesn't necessarily mean the light is on. With my hallway light, if both switches are the same way (either both up or down) the light is on and if one is up and one's down, the light is off. But with my staircase light (three pole switches) there wouldn't really be a way to tell for sure, since with three switches, a number of random combinations are possible.

I don't see the big deal about mercury thermostats, afterall, the vial is pretty well "buried" inside the unit. It's not like some little kid is going to pull the entire thing off the wall and start chomping on it lol. My house is from 2003 and it has a mercury thermostat! It says CONTAINS MERCURY - MANAGE PROPERLY and is for controlling the heat and AC. I find the mercury thermostats much easier to use. My cousins' house from 2005/2006ish has a digital thermostat and I have no idea how to work that thing. Mine is easy, just turn the dial to adjust the temperature to what you want! The bottom needle reads the current indoor air temperature and the top needle tells you what you have the temperature set at.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 01, 2015, 04:37:10 PM
It was during a remodel, the lights were removed and nothing put in their place. 
I've gone to remove a few broken-off incandescents before thinking the power was off with damp rubber gloves...BANG and sparks and scaring the crap out of people around me, though!
Wow, in a house from 2003? That's cool actually!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 01, 2015, 05:32:09 PM
Ahh I see. How many fixtures were removed totally?

Yeah that's why I was surprised they're not made anymore. It's possible that maybe it doesn't have mercury and that they had just never upgraded the housing (since the message is embossed in the plastic housing) but I doubt that. The thermostat is a Honeywell.

BTW, I have now mounted all three of the Western Electric F20 fixtures! The like-NOS one is suspended in the laundry room and the pull-chain one is mounted vertically on the wall in the utility room, a few studs to the left of the original WE fixture I got, which is mounted the same way. The lamps in the pull-chain one are a pair of used Sylvania F20T12/CW Canadian lamps with different etches (one etch has smaller printing than the other)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 01, 2015, 09:10:58 PM
Two, which I got.  If there'd been more I'd have saved ballasts though!
Nice! What would be really appropriate is to put all 4 4' ones in your garage!
Took down the outside Christmas lights today and tomorrow plan to do the tree.  I might leave up the 2 strings of LED multis though since they draw less than 3w each, they make great nightlights! (one upstairs and one downstairs).
Still researching those old army trucks, kinda interested in eventually owning one of those if I ever move back to CA or something (A possibility I'm considering, I wouldn't mind double-siting again, after doing it for so long I miss the change of scenery/pace.    But I'd need a place to park it...I want a larger, more rural place anyway, kinda like you've described Mike.  Mine here is already that way, though it could be a little bigger actually...I still have a neighbor next door about 100' away. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 01, 2015, 11:04:14 PM
LOL not the garage i have right now. I will probably end up installing the F20s and F40s together some place. Maybe the F20s on one switch and the F40s on another and have a pattern, F40, F20, F40, F20, F40, F20, and F40?

We took down the tree and other indoor decorations today. The lights are still up but are unplugged. Might take them down tomorrow or at least some.

Would be cool if you moved to the East coast. :P ;D Talk about a change of scenery lol. I don't have any plans to move really far away. I'd like to stay in the New England/Northeast area but might end up leaving Rhode Island. There are some nice spacious lots right here in Cranston though, but property taxes are insane in RI.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 02, 2015, 07:40:27 PM
At one point I was looking at a school in East Haddam, CT, and then I woud've been really close by!
One of the redeeming qualities about my current place of residence is no property taxes! I think it's common to want to stay where you grew up...in my case it would be going back to CA. 
Getting a brand new 3000w Honda generator this week too...should be a nice upgrade from the 2000w version which is sorta wearing out and it'll be a nice band-aid until the exhaust on my 10Kw diesel one gets rewelded.  (I can hardly wait for that day). 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 02, 2015, 11:20:21 PM
Ah yeah that's just an hour and 20 minutes from me! No property taxes? Wow! Do you pay any taxes of any sort (other than maybe a public water supply fee)?

Ahh now you can run more lights. ;D With a 10KW one you can put up street lights on you whole road and run then off that lol. (they have those MH construction lights where there's 4 1000W MHs and they're powered off a generator, ever seen those on DOT worksites or at a temporary carnival?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 04, 2015, 07:07:17 PM
Nah just a ridiculously expensive $100/year (sarcasm) for city water.  Pretty cheap once you're set up out here...if not it gets pricy though. 
More lights? Yeah, or at the same time as other things.  My clothes washer sure is a lot happier, that's for sure.  (The spin cycle starting to move those wet clothes often overloaded my 2000w one.).  But not as often will I have fun with other people over at the same time..."will it do it will it do it will it make it" as the lights dim to less than half brightness and it struggles...it's breaker trips after 5 seconds.  Then I'd just say some profanity and go out and reset it...
One of my relevations was the first time I used a skillsaw on regular grid power...it jumps when you depress the trigger as opposed to slowly ramping up!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 04, 2015, 08:59:51 PM
 We get billed monthly based on consumption.  (http://www.provwater.com/depts/cs/billrates.htm) Looking at those prices, water looks a lot cheaper than I thought! $2.88 per 100 cubic feet (748 gallons). Plus a monthly charge for "service" based on the meter size. I don't know the size of our meter or even where it is so I couldn't answer it lol.

Ah I never operated one off-grid so I didn't know that. Yeah it even makes me jump when I go to use one lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 07, 2015, 08:59:39 PM
Your house is probably 1", or at least that's what mine is.  I have a meter but I'm not billed monthly on consumption so I wouldn't know since I never check it, though I have had to go in there to shut it off at the meter before. 
My friend's Delta UniSaw (Which the Bonusline-ballasted Sears shoplight once hung right over) "struggles" to start when cold, even on an 8Kw generator! Granted, it's wired with #12 Romex the whole way, which probably doesn't help.  (Did I mention the shop and house are also fed by vintage cartridge and screw-in glass fuses?)  For my dad's "Ridgid" (Home Depot contractor type) table saw on one of those litttle 2000w Honda generators the breaker will trip if you push too hard on a stubborn knot LOL...you have to go easy and slow. 
The streetlight near my godparents' house finally got fixed...she emailed me once she noticed...they're pretty happy even though you can't see it from their house. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 08, 2015, 06:40:25 PM
1" sounds reasonable. I think the pipe feeding my hot water tank (well, the pipe that the hot water feed pipe branches off of) is 1". The rest of the house is 1/2" I think. It's cool that the how water pipes remain shiney while the cold water pipes loose their luster after a while. It makes it easier to tell which is hot and which is cold.

We have a SawStop table saw in the shop but it's wired for 208V, not 120V. We also have another table saw and a radial arm saw, both of which are older. No idea what voltage or wattage those are. I only know the SawStop is 208V because someone wrote "208v" on the condit elbow that comes out of the concrete floor.

Ah the light has been fixed! ;D Glad that it didn't need to be replaced. On my street, almost all the lights have recently been relamped. Pole 5 got a new lamp in 2012 IIRC. Pole 3 is an entirely new light, for whatever reason, from 2013 IIRC. Pole 6, 8, and 10 were relamped this year. Pole 2 I'm unsure of, since I can't see it from my house. I've seen it cycle before (a few years back) so I know it's been relamped since then because I don't see it cycle anymore. Pole 4 has a photocell from 2010 (since it was shut off in 2010 like the one in front of my house. When they turned the lights back on, they got new PCs but kept the old lamps) but I don't know how old the lamp is. It's not the original lamp though, as far as I know, since the refractor isn't a typical squarish GE one which would be on all the M-250R2s. Then there's the last light, on pole 12. It was relamped several years ago, but it's old enough where it still has an older pinkish-orange lamp instead of a yellowish-orange lamp (so it was relamped before 2008-09) and still has an older brown PC with a later turn-off light level (shuts off later in the morning), which were last used around 2009-ish as well.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 09, 2015, 12:06:56 AM
And with "PEX crap" you can color-code your plumbing from when it's brand-new!
Those SawStop saws seem kinda violent and unpredictable IMO from what I'm told (Blade suddenly dropping into a metal enclosure and stopping instantly) though I've never seen one in person.  
Not sure how it was fixed, for all I know it could have easily been replaced with an "illuminated waffle iron" LOL. (I'm personally in favor of HPS>LED or HPS>induction conversions since it brings back the whiter light of the MV days).  But not replacing MV! (Unless the ballast, etc. totally fails or the light is missing major parts).  
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 09, 2015, 05:52:04 PM
Yeah but with copper you can tell but it's more subtle. :P In general, I associate metal with quality and plastic with crap lol. I'm sure both have their advantages, I'm just a copper guy since it's what I'm used to lol.

I think they'd know if it was replaced with an LED because the light would be white and not orangey. I agree to a degree. I like the whiter light, but there's something about that sherbet-colored orange snow that I'll miss lol. It's not so much the HPS itself that I'll miss though (although it does have nostalgia with me, since the areas I've lived in have been almost all HPS). I will miss the cobrahead fixtures that I've grown up seeing and also the experience of watching a light warm up for the night. The new LED fixtures look hideous. If they made LED fixtures out of existing cobrahead shells then I wouldn't mind LEDs.

The big things I dislike about the LEDs is the ugly fixture designs replacing all the nice looking cobrheads and also the fact that there will be so much waste as a result of changing all the lights. All those perfectly-working lights being scrapped for no other reason than being "outdated". It's a terrible thought, at least for me.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 09, 2015, 09:28:49 PM
Yeah I know what you mean by that...metal generally seems like it's better quality.
I don't care for the snow effect even! But MV and snow is cool with me.  I don't really even care for the "look" of cobraheads (I find them ugly and utilitarian) but the LED fixtures are even uglier IMO.  I like "NEMA" or "Gumball" or "Teardop" style fixtures better, although the dark sky people ARE right in that they DO leak a lot of light upwards...my 175w MV yardblaster sure lights the trees pretty well!
Yeah LED retrofits of existing cobras would look a little better.  I also was fascinated as a kid by the MV or MH or HPS warmup cycle (And still am).  I still wait for streetlights or private area lights to turn on at dusk so I can watch the warmup process.  (Or restrike after a power interruption). 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 10, 2015, 11:38:46 AM
Yeah MV-lit snow is cool, especially with clear MV! But HPS does induce a warmer feeling. When I look outside at the HPS light in front of my house, the warm light makes me feeling better if I wake up from a bad dream or something. MV contributes to the eerie feeling (like the lights when I'm at my grandparents' house, whose street was all 100W MV M-250R1s, but the light got replaced with HPS).

I love cobraheads. I like NEMAs with the bucket refractors but only for rural area private property lights, not for street lighting. There are some places in the mid west with 175W MV NEMA heads for street lights in residential areas and it looks tacky IMO. Like they were too cheap to buy more expensive cobraheads. I'm actually not a huge fan of gumballs or teardrops. Sure I like them, but I prefer clamshells and cobraheads more. I don't actually find them utilitarian at all. Its the LEDs that I find utilitarian. At least cobraheads have character to them. They might not be "decorative" but they're certainly not all utilitatian. If anything, clamshells are more utilitarian with their exposed reflectors and bare-minimal metal construction (though the metal was very thick) but at the time, clamshells fit in with a lot of the chrome used in cars in the 50s and 60s (well more so the 60s and 70s) so at the time, the exposed metal reflectors probably weren't considered utilitarian at the time. I love my OV-10IB and I would love to get an OV-20 to go with it and also I'd like to get a GE Form 400 PowerPack (with an internal 400W MV ballast).

As for the older NEMA style fixtures, I prefer radial waves or admiral's hats (they must be incandescent though) and I like the bucket style refractor for HID and I like the "Hi-Fi needle" (gumball with a cone-shaped refractor) fixtures with MV.

Well, if you don't like cobraheads (which is fine, a lot of older collectors don't like them either since they replaced the older style clamshells and NEMA-style fixtures) I guess if you come eastward, you should bring your M-400A. :P :D I'll give you a few fluorescent goodies in return and it'll be a trade. ;D BTW, did you ever figure out if it works or not? Next time you visit your godparents, open up the light and take pics of the inside. If there's a lamp inside, that will tell you the wattage. Even if there's no etch on the lamp anymore, the length of the arctube will tell the wattage, as 200-400W HPS lamps have the same sized outer envelope but different sized arc tubes, the length being greater for higher-wattage lamps of course.

Yeah the warm-up process is the most interesting part of HIDs IMO. I also like the variations in equipment (different lamps have slightly different coloring, different lamps start differently than others, etc) which LEDs and other non-HID sources lack. You will never get better lamp distribution than you do from a drop lens cobrahead though. FCO doesn't distribute as well and NEMA lights with bucket refractors light up the trees better the ground, as you said. Vertical lamps work best for "TYpe 5" distribution, which is even 360-degrees of light, basically a round circle of light. Type IV, is slightly narrower, with less light across the behind the street and more light in the street. Type III allows more light up and down the street and not as much off the street.  Type II is like Type III but narrower, allowing even more light down the street but less across the street. Type I is rare. It exists as a designation, but I've never seen it used or available in a fixture.

Type II is the most common for street lighting. It allows minimal light trespass into properties along the street and lights further up and down the street, allowing the lights to be further apart. Type III is used more on main streets with multiple lanes of travel, where the road is wider and where it may be useful to illuminate some property along the street (i.e. sidewalks). With Type III, lights must be closer together though to minimize dark spots on the roadway between fixtures. Type IV, although sort of uncommon, is used on big roads with lots of lanes or where there are a lot of pedestrians, such as downtown, where they basically want the whole city to be lit up lol. Type IV has an avantage over Type V because it allows slightly more light to go up and down the street and makes an oval-shapped patter as opposed to a circle. Type V is typically used with NEMA head fixtures. You can ONLY get Type V (perfect-circle illumination) from a vertical lamp. A horizontal lamp won't allow Type V distribution. Type V is used for area lighting, like on private property where the whole area is supposed to be lit evenly. With NEMA heads with bucket refractors, Type II and III distributions can be achieved from the bucket refractor itself. The refractor has special prisms that redirect the light into an assymetric oval-shaped pattern. Horizontal lamps (cobraheads) are much more efficient at this though, with tighter beam control.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 10, 2015, 01:42:49 PM
It does "feel" warmer I guess.  Another nice thing about HPS (One of it's few redeeming qualities IMO besides less power usage than MV) is it's excellent contrast.  It "Cuts" through fog and percipitation much better than MV or MH or LED.  A really common application for 400w and 1000w HPS floods (For 1000w there's a certain Wide-Lite 11-degree model that's common) is on boats here...you can "see" through fog, snow, rain, etc. much better. And it's amazing what a 1000w HPS can light up half a mile away! I've tried taking pics of this but they don't usually turn out too well.
Yeah seeing NEMAs does seem "Cheap" as opposed to cobras and whenever I see a cobra on a house I think "Does an electrician live there?" In fact, I know of an electrically-oriented person with a 100w HPS cobra on their garage/shop, an old neighbor.  If you like preheat and rapid start and 8' slimlines (As I do), you would have liked their house.  It was there that I saw the blinky statup of many circline and PL adapters as a child, as well as the flickering of 60w cool white slimlines.  I also saw my first spent preheat lamp flashing endlessly there, a PL13 or PL9 most likely.  He's still around and into off-grid hydropower at his other place...we still occasionally drive up there and visit. 
As for clamshells, I don't really care for them either, though if I found one I would grab it nonetheless and probably pass it on to a fellow collector. 
I like the bucket-style refractor for HID too, but never was that "turned on" by radial waves, though here again if I found one I'd save it and give it to another collector. 
LOL I've thought about doing a cross-country trip, but I'd probably start at the east coast and move westward.  But if I did I'd try to meet up in person and bring it over.  It doesn't have a lamp (That's why I can't tell) but there's a faded-to-silver "25" NEMA tag, and there's a circuit-board-looking thing inside, which to me says HPS ignitor. As I recall (Last time I looked inside was a year and a half ago, and the last time I saw it a year ago) there were two "transformer" coils (So multi-wattage?) and a capacitor (So maybe multitap CWA)? I don't remember any loose wires for unused taps though, but here again I simply don't remember anymore.  So 250w HPS I bet.  We looked at how to wire it up but had trouble since all the labels with wiring diagrams and specs were too rotten.  (It sat outside upside down (refractor facing sky) for years under a tree so it was full of leaves, bugs, etc.).  So I haven't tried, though I looked for a 250w HPS lamp at the nearby ReStore.  Not sure when I'll be in that area next though.  I've thought about spending next year there for school, in which time I would probably be able to get it operational.  At the time when I was told I could have it I still lived down there part-time and I should've brought it home (Though it would've ended up back at my godparents' after my mom died, that's where I have everything in storage right now).  At that time though (That was in June 2013) I considered making it 175w MV instead with an area light ballast I could probably keep an eye out for at ReStore. It'd take some fitting though I think.   If you wanted it someday, would you want it cleaned up and working for sure I assume? Even for me that'd be a fun project.  Some people have project vehicles, I have project fixtures...just set aside for a later restoration project as time/money/energy/knowledge of the topic allows. 
Never knew there were different "types" of distribution patterns, though it makes sense. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 10, 2015, 05:51:59 PM
Clear mercury is also good at cutting through fog. MH, /DX MV, and fluorescent aren't good because the latter two are diffused and also they have peaks in different parts of the spectrum, whereas HPS and clear MV peak mostly in the red and blue, respectively.

On a rainey night though, forget it. HPS is totally useless lol.

Yeaah NEMAs actually are cheaper too. Sometimes by quite a bit too. But they're really not great fixtures. It was a great concept back in the day (where people believes that blinding garebombs detered criminals and kepts streets safer) but now it's fallen out of favor towards FCO cobraheads in a lot of places. Up in NH, I was talking with an oldtimer a few years back and he said the village where we stayed had all 175W MV GE NEMA heads installed in the mid-60s (well, I gathered the wattage and brand myself) but in the very late 80s to very early 90s, they replaced them with 100W HPS M-250A2s. Now the NHE Co-Op is starting to use LEDs. According to their site, they're supposed to install only LEDs and replace the HPS fixtures upon needing serviceing. So far the only LEDs up there are PAL lights (private area lights aka NEMA heads) but a little further north they've installed LED street lights.

I've never seen a cobrahead on anyone elses private property before. Even yardblasters are rare here. People don't seem to like HID much here, probably because the units cost more. The HIDs from the big box stores are junk anyway. If you go to that place again, could you take a pic of the guy's cobrahead? Is it a M-250A2 (like those HPS cobraheads at the dock you saw)? If you make the trek eastward, ask him if you can take it with you lol. ;D

Yep, it's 250W HPS. The circuit board thing is the igniter. It should have been on a reddish/maroon plastic or white plastic. Reddish plastic igniters were used by GE until around 1978-ish, so if it has a NEMA tag and a reddish plastic igniter, it's from the late 70s. If white plastic igniter, it's an early-to-mid 80s unit. Was the ballast mounted to the top of the fixture or to the door with black disconnect plugs? If to the door, it's a M-400A Powr/Door but if to the top, it's just a M-400 like my 400W MV version. I don't know why they used "A" for the Power/Doors. I would have used P or PD for "Powr/Door™"...

Just two coils? Sounds like a reactance ballast. CWA ballasts have four coils. If it was a really huge ballast, perhaps it was a CWI ballast. It would depend where the capacitor was wired in the circuit. With reactance (HX) the cap is across the supply leads to boost power factor. With CWI, the capacitor is wired between the coils. With CWA, the capacitor is between the ballast and the white wire going to the lamp. Wiring it up should have been a breeze. There's a terminal block inside and that's where all your connections are made. The terminal with all the white wires is the neutral and if there's a PC socket on the light, the lonely black wire terminal is the 120V hot. If it's not 120V, it would wire up differently though. If it's got a PC socket, odds are that it's 120V. If it was 240V, it probably would use a reactor ballast with a capacitor to correct power factor.

I have a couple of 250W HPS lamps, a GE and an NOS Philips. Actually, I'd prefer it original (maybe the loose stuff blown out with a compressor lol) but as of now, it's your light so you can do whatevr you want with it. :P I'd definitely advise against replacing the ballast though, since unlike fluorescents, HID ballast replacements never seem to fit right lol. You'll always end up with a cockeyed ballast and a mess of wirenuts lol. 175W MV wouldn't light good in a M-400/M-400A either, since the lamp is too small. The lamp shapes are actually designed for certain size fixtures to allow optimal lamp distribution. The ED23.5 and ED28 lamps are designed for cobraheads (BT25 and BT28 designed for NEMA heads or other vertical-lamp installations). If you eventually do come eastward or I go west for some reason (I don't have plans to move out there or even do a roadtrip out west but plans can change) and we did a trade involving the M-400/M-400A I'd still probably take it apart to the bare nuts and bolts and scrub it down and possibly repaint it anyway. It's just what I do lol. I'd prefer the wiring original though. Nah doesn't matter if it works. I can always put a new ballast in, but like I said, it rarely turns out how you want it to lol. Does it have a PC socket? I feel like I've already asked so sorry if it asked already lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 11, 2015, 11:56:28 PM
Yeah but on a rainy/snowy night I'd prefer looking at HPS looking for rocks, floating logs, etc.   
At least they replace lights that need servicing (though otherwise working) instead of replacing perfectly working ones.  If you're going to do an energy saver retrofit, that's the way to do it IMO.  As for more light equalling less crime, the reverse has been proven in other studies too...leaving the lights off deters criminal/drug activity too since they can't see their way around!
I'm one of the only people in my neighborhood with an HID outdoors, and a regular 175w MV yardblaster at that LOL.  It's not in dusk to dawn service though, it's only turned on if I need to read a newspaper in the backyard LOL. 
It might very well be a M-250A2, since this guy was a city engineer at one point.  He lives in the same town (Sitka, AK) as the fixtures at that marina I frequent.  So it's very possible.  I'm so unfamilair with cobras I couldn't say for sure what model it is though, though it was FCO whereas the marina ones had clear polycarbonate "drop"/"sag" lenses.   That whole town is HPS-filled...like 150w ones on every pole on dead-end unpaved residential streets, etc.  The skyglow above Sitka, AK is something else in fog...long before you actually see the actual lights of town out on a boat, etc. you see the orange glow in the clouds.  And they wonder why their electrical grid gets overloaded and blame it on electric heat in everyone's drafty mobile homes.  (That town has a LOT of mobile home parks, it used to be a pulp mill town and I theorize tons of them were brought up on barges from Seattle, etc. for employee housing back in the day). 
This guy also had what I now know to be a MH lowbay in his shop...I was amazed by that thing as a little kid. 

I think the circuit board for the ignitor was reddish.  I THINK the ballast was mounted to the door and I seem to remember member NiMo saying it was a Powr/Door on a pic I posted of it so yeah I think it's a Powr/Door.  I will check on that pic and see. 
It was "big" and had I think two coils, though it may have been two in one or something.  Here again, it's been almost a year since I even LOOKED at the darn thing, much less opened it up so I really don't remember LOL.  Don't even ask where the capacitor was for that very same reason LOL.  It had a terminal block and a photocell socket though and we were hazarding a guess it was 120v but were too chicken to try it LOL.  Closest thing we had to a lamp was a nice vintage /DX 175w Lifeguard in an 80s Regent yardlight which I didn't feel like risking for a test, on an already-incompatible ballast that hadn't been powered up in like 20 years most likely.  Someday if I do try it out it'll be outside on a long extension cord just in case LOL.  (If it's 120v!).  If not I'm just SOL for testing I guess.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 12, 2015, 05:37:31 PM
Hmm this guy sounds really cool! A MH low-bay too eh? I took a little Streetview "Roadtrip" in Sitka. Seems like 100W HPS wouldbe sufficient in mose of those places where the lights are lol. for small sized fixtures, there seem to be a lot of M-250A2s, but only some FCO A2s. There was one 100W HPS M-250R2, but it was a drop lens unit. I saw a few Thomas & Betts 113s and AEL 115s. Saw a good number of M-250R1s too. The M-250A2s were the only ones that some were not 150W HPS. Everything else was only 150W, so my money is on the light being an M-250A2 FCO if I had to hazard a guess... It will be very interesting to see how the sky glow gradually changes from radioactive waste orange to whitish. I've never seen white skyglow, unless you count the WalMart Supercenter near my house. I swear you can see that parking lot from space lol.

Ah! A red-plastic igniter and a NEMA tag dates the light to the late 70s! 8) Considered to be an early HPS fixture (the first HPS street light actually was the M-400A when it came out in 1996 IIRC, but it was only in 400W HPS. Then in 1970 the M-400A became available in 250W HPS as well and the M-250R1 came out (replacing the MV-only M-250R) which was available in 100W HPS. Later in the 70s, 150W HPS and 70W HPS came out. Not sure when 200W HPS came out. 50W HPS actually didn't even become available in street lights until 1980! I am unsure when 200, 310, 750, and 1000W HPS came out. 750W HPS is very rare in a street light. I've actually only heard of it being used regularly in those highmast lights on freeways up in Joe's area.

LOL yeah I know you probably don't remember much about it, especially since you're not really super-interested in HID/street lighting stuff. If it was a HPF F40T12 shoplight you'd probably remember it better, right? ;D I find that it's easier to remember certain things depending on how much I was really interested in it. Ask me what we learned in math class yesterday, I couldn't tell you lol. If the ballast was on the door, the capacitor and igniter would be too, since all the components are on the door. The terminal block would be on the top housing regardless. (GE used a three-terminal block for the Power/Doors and a five-terminal block for the regular single-door fixtures. Also, I re-looked at those pics, yes it's an M-400A because of the latch and screw on the Powr/Door; the M-400s had one or the other, not both.)

Ahh it has a PC socket? That's nice. That means it's likely either 120 or 240V, since PCs are generally used when the light is connected to the power pole. In a parking lot, the light GENERALLY wouldn't have a PC socket, but I've seen instances where they did have PC sockets (and generally they had shorting caps in them, which is essentially a dayburning photocell to bypass the dusk-to-dawn function). I like PC sockets on all my lights in my collection. Not sure why, but a light with no PC socket is much more boring to me. PCs make the lights more interesting IMO, although I typically use shorting caps in my lights since I don't want a dusk-to-dawn feature when the light is being used indoors, but it's always good to have the option available.

Yeah, do not use a 175W MV lamp. You can use a 250W MV lamp, but you need to disconnect the neutral wire to the igniter (or else you'll fry the starting probe in the MV lamp, which will make it dependant on a 250W HPS or 250W PSMH ballast with an external igniter) and you can't use your 100W HPS lamp since 100W lamps have a 55V arc tube and 250W HPS have 100V arc tubes like MV (that's assuming the HPS lamp you have is mogul base and not medium base). the next time you're down there and have access to the light, post some pice of the ballast itself and of the terminal block/wiring. I'll be able to walk you through wiring it up. The Powr/Doors are a little less confusing to wire since it's only the supply lines connected to the terminal block. with my M-400, there's five terminals and only two are actually used for the supply wires lol. The rest are ballast wire connections made at the terminal block instead of using wirenuts.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 12, 2015, 09:03:25 PM
What areas/streets did you "visit"? I'm just wondering what areas of town you got to see so we can compare with what I drive by all the time LOL. (If you don't mind linking to stuff).   Did you see any inductions on some residential streets? I can link to a few things there you might like:

http://www.instantstreetview.com/2ryu3kztqfvwz1uxzn6z2u   This view is very familar to me.  The gas station, I frequent all the time.  Across the street from that, see the big fuel tanks? That place has some abandoned-but dimly-workign HO 8 footers with vintage GE lamps with the big "800" on the etch.  If you look across the water that's a high school I looked at going to.    If you go "up" the street to the left that's part of the marina where I saw those GEs with polycarbonate drop lenses.   The big cement building with the nautical murals is another familar thing to me, we worked for that place, along with the big blue metal building next to it...which is where the tacky Appleton flood retrofit is.  In the streetview though you see some nice dimmed out MVs instead.  Go down that street a little more and see the "Murray Pacific Supply of Alaska" building? That store appeared in a great lighting dream of mine...in the dream they were going out of business and had a bunch of non-marine stuff for sale as part of that...like a case of NOS Norelco F40CWs for 2 bucks! Of course the dream ended when I walked up to the counter with it. 

http://www.instantstreetview.com/2ryresztqkd6z1jyzqxz2u   Here you see a case of (IMO) a really bad case of energy wasting.  400w HPS for a little tiny parking lot! (I've been here multiple times at night and it's OVERKILL!.  Too bad you can't see inside the gate that well, because there's a 175w NEMA with a 400w MH lamp, been like that for years now. 

http://www.instantstreetview.com/2ryn9yztrjeyz2nizqsz2u Now you see the 150w HPS on a residential street thing, case in point.  I used to live up this street.  You can't see the neighbor's cobra, it's blocked by a tree. 




Yeah pre-1978!   If it was a nice vintage HPF F40 shoplight I'd remember every detail for sure.  Last week I did synthetic division in my Algebra II class.  Yeah it was a royal PITA to open (I remember you made a video of opening a GE cobra after that originally happened).  Yeah if I go back down there ever again I'll get pics of it's insides and if I'm there for an extended period I'll see about getting it going again. 
And my only HPS lamps are 50w, 400w, and 1000w.  So nothing I already have (Multiple states away too) would work.  I'll just keep an eye out at the ReStore nearby if I'm working on get it going again and try to find a lamp, though if I get desperate I'll blow a crazy amount at Home Depot for one. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 12, 2015, 10:09:17 PM
Yes, I saw that first streetview link. I didn't see the second. Wow 400W at that height? It's a Hubbell RLC BTW. Looks like a Westinghouse flood light next to it too, probably 400W MV.  No on the third either. I did find the electric company's utility yard where they have the cables and poles. I probably couldn't find it again for the life of me though lol.

Actually, it should be post-1977, since that's when NEMA tags first started appearing on GE street lights. Actually, if you have a 400W HPS lamp, that would work perfectly, just the lamp won't run up to full brightness and will stay in the "LPS state". Fine for testing the fixture though. You'd also need to stick a PC or something in the PC socket, since the power to the light is disconnected when the PC socket has no PC.

I suspect that many (if not all) of those residential 150W HPS lights were originally 175W MV.  This M-250R1 here  (http://www.instantstreetview.com/2rys1oztqj9wzt3zumz4p) is on a GE mast arm for a NEMA head, and the NEMA head wouldn't have been 250W MV.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 12, 2015, 11:39:17 PM
Yeah I thought it was pretty overkill too.  Yeah I think the flood is a Westy but it has a little PSMH lamp in it IIRC.   
Is this where you were thinking of? There's another substation but I don't remember where it is.    http://www.instantstreetview.com/2ryph1ztr9gfz5l1znyz2u (It's actually since changed a lot, that whole hill has been dynamited since then). 





I might add it takes forever to move from one "shot" to another on my slow internet, it's much faster actually driving on these roads LOL.

So would these lights have been converted FROM 175w MV or replaced with HPS fixtures? I would've loved to see what Sitka looked like in the MV days myself. 
That M-250R1 you linked to...so it would have been 250w or not? I'm confused, I think a typo occurred there.  BTW see that house behind it? Fun fact: I still have the newspaper article for when it almost fell into the street...I think it's historic though so it can't be torn down, despite it's condition (And as far as I know it's still occupied). 


http://www.instantstreetview.com/2s0hx6ztppd6z46jzr5z2u   Here's a laugh for you.  See that tsunami warning siren? I've read jokes about them looking like giant spiral CFLs for streetlights.  Also they test them every day at noon...Also in the same frame I have a rules of the road question: see that driveway off to the left? Can you turn onto that from the right side of the road even though there's no break in the lane line? Hope it doesn't sound like a stupid question...
http://www.instantstreetview.com/2s0hx6ztppd6z46jzr5z2u  Check out this grocery store parking lot.  What are these streetlights? (Now they're some sort of LEDs).  BTW, what do you think roads like this might have had before HPS? Granted, it's a fairly modern road...my dad told me he remembers when it was paved all the way to the (at that time) new supermarket pictured, it used to be a dirt road and now it's a buzzing thoughfare.  Similarly, someone I know told me growing up in this house (http://www.instantstreetview.com/2s0582ztq1hpz3r9zopz2u) they used to play in the unpaved road as a kid.  (There's a LOT of cars in Sitka IMO, for a town of only 10,00 people). 


Yeah I could borrow the PC from the 175w yardlight there for the test I suppose...I think it's a dayburner since it's little window is missing so it's more or less a shorting cap LOL.  And of course this is relying on the light being 120v. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 13, 2015, 07:04:54 PM
BTW, I did find the materials yard.  Here it is. You can see transformers on the back left, wire spools back right, and poles in the foreground. The two lights in the yard are M-400A2s, the one at the gate a M-250A2, and the light on the little arm on the pole is a Thomas & Betts 113.  (https://www.google.ca/maps/@57.102645,-135.393065,3a,74.6y,162.34h,86.73t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sv75iymUulc0Jbf0bFX8_AA!2e0?hl=en-US)

I had also found the othe substation before too, a small one.  Here it is.  (https://www.google.ca/maps/@57.053256,-135.339381,3a,75y,349.78h,91.44t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1snCqFq9-wpR2tb_35DUSY5w!2e0?hl=en-US)

Those fixtures are all factory-HPS. The MV lights likely would have been all 175W MV NEMA heads looking at the short arms. Cobraheads usually have 4ft+ arms. 18", 24", and 30" are typically "NEMA head arms", although incandescent NEMAs (like radial waves, admiral's hats, etc) would have used longer arms like cobraheads. There are a lot of 8ft arms and they all seem to have M-250A2s on them. If I had to guess, I'd say the 8ft arms  Like this one  (https://www.google.ca/maps/@57.053447,-135.338696,3a,24.8y,4.17h,112.07t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sOg4-QAANXjW0QAWMaqrhWw!2e0?hl=en-US) were installed when they installed the M-250A2s (so when they replaced the mercs in those cases, both the arm and light were replaced). No typo, just poor wording I guess. What I was saying was that the MV lights were likely 175W, not 250W.

Wow they test them every day? That must be annoying. Are tsunamis a common threat for it to require sirens? I live near the ocean but the only sirens I know of are up near Plymouth, MA  in a town called Pilgrim (named after the pilgrims...) where there's a nuclear power plant, the Pilgrim Plant. The sirens look like the ones you linked. Yeah you can take a left. Just treat it as an intersection. Driveways don't have breaks in the lines, only public roads do. Business entrances don't have breaks in the lines either, though if it's a major place like a shopping mall, there will be a break in the line. But yeah, when taking the left, you'd have to use your blinker (like you always should lol) and make sure there is no oncomming traffic before crossing the double yellow.

Hmm I think you goofed on the supermarket link. It takes me to the driveway where you talked about turning left. I noticed that Sitka is very densely populated too. All that room and everyone's crammed into a strip of land about a mile wide! It looks so big from satellite but then you look at the scale and it's very small!

Yeah the PC from the yardblaster would be fine. My guess is that the fixture is wired in one of three ways: 120V, 240V, or 240V with the PC socket wired for 120V. With 120V, there will be the one black 120V wire and the one white neutral wire. For 240V, there will be two 120V wires and no neutral. For 240V with 120V PC socket, there will be two 120V supply leads and a neutral. The neutral would be connected ONLY to the white PC socket wire. Because the PC socket is 120V, it requires the neutral to function. The rest of the fixture is 240V, so the neutral wouldn't be connected to anything else. Not sure how to wire a ballast other than a choke for 240V/120V PC. With a choke, the neutral and one hot wire go to the PC socket. Then the PC-controlled 120V hot wire goes to the choke and then the lamp socket. The second 120V supply wire goes straight to the lamp socket, and has 24/7 power. That's how most of the mercs here in RI and Souteastern MA were wired (if not they were just straight 120V).

If the light is 240V, the breaker would probably trip if you wired it for 120V (if you wired the black supply wire to one of the 120V terminals and the neutral to the other 120V terminal). If it's 240V with a 120V PC, you can actually light it up on 120V but the lamp won't warm up, since it's getting half the power. I've done it with my M-400 split door by following the instructions on the little yellow card that came with it. Since the M-400 has a 120/240V dual-tap ballast, it shows how to wire it for 120V, 240V, and 240V/120V PC. There's a small chance that the fixture could be a 208 or 277V (or 480V) but that's very small, especially considering that there's a PC socket. If it doesn't light with HPS, trying a MV lamp just to see if it lights is fine. If the fixture lights with a MV but not a HPS, the igniter is dead. (But if it does light a HPS, don't try a MV or you'll kill the starting resistor lol)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 13, 2015, 10:03:21 PM
Oh interesting, I've never driven by the material yard! It even took me awhile to figure out where it even was but the golf course can be seen from a long way away so that was the giveaway.  I THINK I've been by the other substation, it seems familiar...is it accessed off the main highway pretty easily? I'm thinking there may have never been mercs in a lot of places though since most of these residential neighborhoods are relatively new...NOTICE ALL THE RAISED RANCHES? LOL.  Actually I'm told a popular thing was to take a modular (NOT a mobile home, though as you can see there's a lot of those too) and put it on a stick-built downstairs/basement, making a duplex! Yeah it's a "muzak" like sound though...maybe I'll try to get a recording of it sometime.  Yeah it's SUPER densely populated IMO.  Houses on top of houses on top of houses practically! Actually Sitka is I believe the largest city in North America by land area (Almost all of Baranof Island except for the little area where I live right at the southern tip is Sitka; so largest by land area but NOT by development as you can see! It's more densely populated than the area of CA I lived in, though I think that's changing rapidly since down there is MUCH more developed than it once was.  (The last 10 years it's exploded down there). 
http://www.instantstreetview.com/2s063kztq0qkz1srzr5z2u   Now THAT's the supermarket I'm talking about.  Fun fact: Back in the day it used to have a revolving door!
I'll try to find the link to the just-fixed 400w HPS I told you about...the one that started the "I can turn off streetlights!" joke.  (Since it would cycle as I would drive by). 

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 13, 2015, 10:23:05 PM
Okay, I found it! http://www.instantstreetview.com/2dn4bmz14hjmpz2iezr5z2u

Note how different the overall scenery is? LOL
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 14, 2015, 04:05:02 PM
Yeah a lot of the 80s-present day developments were probably originally HPS.  It must take forever for a house foundation to cure after being poured up there depending on how humid  it gets and if it gets that hot up there (it would harden faster in hot, dry weather, like paint).

Ah so you live on the same island as Sitka? I thought you lived way further up north for some reason lol. Interesting that almost the whole thing is Sitka. That's a big area of land! I think Central Falls, RI is the smallest city, being about one square mile, though 100% urban (and ghetto).

Ah, those are Westinghouse OV-25TD lights! (OV-25 TuDors, Westinghouse's answer to GE's Powr/Door line) Not sure about the pole in the back left near the store though, they appear different from the rest. The TuDors were made as late as the mid 80s (I think Cooper made the OV-15 and OV-25 TuDors alongside the L-150 and L-250 but I'm not sure if Cooper kept making them after the OVM and OVS were introduced. My guess is no.

Are you sure that the link you posted for your godparents' light is correct? Because that's not a 400W light, that's a 70W light. You can see the NEMA tag right from the streetview. (70W should also be a little dimmer than a 400W HPS lol)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 14, 2015, 08:48:52 PM
I'm not sure how the curing process works actually! Though another common practice, at least where I live, is creosote-treated pilings just placed in the soil, timbers atop those, and the floor joists on top of that like normal.  The cheap hippie variation (My house has this as well as the more "conventional" method) is to take large timbers (in my case 3X12s salvaged from a herring plant) and lay them across the timbers on top of the pilings, hence making a thick-enoguh floor to not need joists.  I might add this method is horrible IMO.  Also in my case they stapled black plastic on the underside (in the crawlspace) so it just invited it to rot even faster! Of course there's a plywood subfloor on top too. 
Another fairly common thing around here is to use 1X10s or 1X12s or something (And full-dimension ones too!) for subfloor and sheeting instead of plywood or OSB.  I think this is done since locally-milled (often by chainsaw) lumber is cheaper than shipping in plywood, OSB, etc.  I might add T-111 SUCKS in this climate! (Though it's used often nonetheless!) Only redeeming quality about that stuff (At least IMO) is it can double as sheeting and decent-looking siding, so if you're in a hurry to build, and/or on a budget, it works for the interim, though I would want to cover it with real siding later on.  Nice thing about full-dimension lumber is you can space your studs (At least with 2X6s) on 24" centers instead of 16", thus saving lumber!
The link is correct! I was already thinking 400w was ridiculous for a setup like that, now I know why...I was wrong! There's some much larger ones a few blocks down the road though where it interchanges with Highway 101, a major freeway. 
I think the SP35 Ecolux lamp in my bathroom light is going to die soon, it's JET black on both ends and starts off pretty dim in the middle compared to the SPX35 next to it.  We'll see! (It's 2XF32T8 BTW). 

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 15, 2015, 08:54:29 PM
Ah so most of the housed have no basement? Interesting... I know down in souther Florida, most of the homes don't have basements because the water table is too high. They have crawlspaces instead. I've seen houses that have concrete pilings spaced apart where there is no basement. A basement is a must for me personally, since I just need that extra space to store "junk" and have a workshop and also I can put up plenty of fluorescents in an unfinished basement. ;D I also want to have a large shelter (similar to a pole barn but probably made of cinderblock or wood framing and it would be insulated/heated) in my backyard where I could have a nice shop/workshop. I'd install a bunch of fluorescent lights on staggard circuits (so a switch controls specific lights and not just a row) so I can adjust the light level of the shop to save enerfy. I'd also employ my six Holophane highbays for the winter or dark days where the fluorescents alone don't cut it. The six MH highbays probably wouldn't be enough light to use without the fluorescents, but they'd be used with the fluorescents. Part of the shop I'd like to finish off and have  drywalled hallway with a bathroom and have a room for lawn/garden supplies. The bathroom and hallway would have a drop grid ceiling with open-bottom recessed cans and PL13s (or maybe some nice recessed squares). The lawn/garden storage room would be uninished and have two F40T12 WE fixtures (since those have a wallwash effect which would light shelves nicely). Above the hallway, bathroom, and lawn/garden storage room I'd have a loft with more storage. The loft would have a full-sized staircase (not a ladder or ship-style steep ladder/staircase). I could store fixtures up there.

Ah I see lol. Yeah 400W HPS would be a little bright, though I think 100 or 150W HPS would have been better than 70W, but that's just my opinion. Those bigger lights down the road are CalTrans-owned Thomas & Betts/AEL 325 FCOs. The ones on the road are 250W HPS and the ones on the freeway itself are 310W HPS. 310W HPS is pretty common on Californian freeways and Chicago since it was designed as a lumen-equivalent replacement for 700W MV. 700W MV was fairly uncommon so 310W HPS isn't too common either. Some smaller installations of 700W MVs just opted to use 250 or 400W HPS instead of 310W. 700W MV lamps aren't made anymore (they were discontinued probbaly over 10 years ago now, due to low demand. Eye was the last to make them, and stopped a few years back. The bigger companies stopped making 700W MV lamps a while ago though.

Hmm yeah I wonder how long it'll hold out. So far, the three GE SPX35s in my Lithonia parabolic troffer from school have held up despite severe blackening on the ends. Their days are numbered, but so far they've held out and I'm impressed! My school still hasn't changed any lamps downstairs in the votech building where my construction shop is. I swear they're waiting for all the lamps to die before they do anything! Unfortunately, the lamps they use will be 4100K and not 3500K though. I like the 3500K lamps in the hallways, makes the halls have a warmer feeling. The rest of the campus has all cool whites though and that's what the janitors have in stock. I've considered putting the bug in the secretary's ear to have the janitors do a relamp in the hallway in the votech building, but I'm also curious to see how dark the halls get before they decide to relamp lol. The hallway is actually adequately lit with one or two lamps working, but there are a few fixtures with all three lamps unlit (usually in fixtures with an emergency ballast, where the center lamp is normally off anyway).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 15, 2015, 11:19:07 PM
A few have "basements" but they're not true basements...more like a walk-out one, and still on pilings.  Mine is all crawlspace, though.  (As my lot is flat).  They weren't too common in my area of CA either unless the house was on a hill...mine had a garage as a walk-out basement (Garage door on the low side, the walls made of cinderblock and mostly buried on 2 other sides).  I like the idea of a basement though.  Or a nice detached shop...maybe not nearly as fancy as you describe but a space to store all my lighting "junk" and tools and such.  My current house has some space like that but it's not enough!
Interesting, I never knew they were 310w? So the ones on Vineyard are 250w right?
Did you go the other way (Away from the freeway) and see historic oak trees with the middle cut out for power lines? If not go a mile or two the other way and laugh!

See how dim it gets in there! I also have an electronic T8 ballast "cycling" now~

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 16, 2015, 01:07:50 AM
BTW it occurred to me...while you were StreetView'ing in the vicinity of CalTrans did you get far south enough on 101 to make it into Atascadero? If so you really made it into my main habitat!
I'm also doing a lot of research on radio in central CA right now, as you know radios/radio stations are another interest of mine.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 16, 2015, 10:12:52 PM
Yep freeway lights say 31 and th Vinyard lights say 25. I didn't before, but now I went back and looked at the Atascadero area. Interestinging, the freeway lights at that exit (220A) are all 200W HPS on the freeway itself and the road, making the original mercs 400W. I couldn't find the trees with the powerlines going through them though. I mean, I saw one, but that's it. Maybe I didn't go far enough. Much of the road has no power lines at all.

BTW, if you want to know the wattage of a street light, most 80s-present-day lights have NEMA tags on the door, which is a single or double digit number in black on a yellow background for HPS, red for MH, or blue for MV. Just add a zero to the end of the number (Eg. 7 --> 70, 25 --> 250, etc). The only exceptions are 35W HPS (the tag is a "3" and you add a 5, not a 0), 175W MV, MH, PSMH (tag reads 17 and you had a 5, not a 0), and 1000W for all HID wattages (which is represented as X1 on the NEMA tag. Just have to know that X1 is 1000W...)

Cycling T8 ballast? That's something new to me... Never heard of that before lol.

BTW, went to my grandparents today. My grandma's 73rd birthday was this past Tuesday (January 13th) so we had cake and icecream over her house. I plunged her bathroom sink, as it was draining slowly. The thing drains really fast now! The only problem is that some of the water backs up into the bathtub (which is kinda gross) but it only happens when you fill the sink up all the way and then let it drain all at once. Normal use doesn't make it do that. I'll probably plung their bath tub drain next Friday... I also cleaned out another shelf on my late-grandpa's storage rack in the basement. I threw out a lot more stuff, including over a dozen empty coffee cans that he had saved over the years to put nails in and never put nails in. I threw those in the recycling bin since they're metal (and there was no room in the trash bucket that goes to the curb lol). Anyway, there's two more shelfs I have to go through, both are loaded with paintcans, both spraypaint and paintcans. Everything from Krylon and Rustoleum to Cabot and Minwax. And brands I've never heard of. I think paint cans might need to be properly disposed of. Not sure if I can just throw them out with the regular trash...

Tons of nails and screws. I just want to throw a bunch of them out but what a waste it would be! Instead, I've just combined boxes of similar but not identical nails and screws to have fewer boxes and thus save shelf space. I also cleaned out the top shelf, which had a bunch of rolls of wallpaper. Lots of wallpaper, but my grandma just said to toss it so I did. There's also a bunch of motor oil containers up there but I just left them up there- not messing with that. So half of the top shelf is totally empty, making room for whatever stuff they don't have space for right now.

Also a lot of electrical stuff down there too. I found more NOS receptacles and wallplates and vintage wirenuts. I plan to bring all the electrical stuff and some of the vintage light bulbs home one day but I don't have room for it myself lol. The WE F40/RS garage lights were very dim when I turned them on, since it's only like 35-40 degrees in there, but after running for about 15 minutes, they were full brightness. They never flickered, even when they were dim, they were steady-dim and gradually brightened up as they warmed up. That's the power of 40W full-mercury lamps on full-power HPF ballasts!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 16, 2015, 11:47:07 PM
Is the 220A exit the one by a Home Depot? Or a different one? Can you link to it on Streetview for me so I can tell exactly what you're seeing?
I knew the NEMA tag thing already. 
It's probably an multivolt Advance, that's why of course! Those things only last so long...a classic case of failed(ing) electronic ballasts running their original-to-the-installation lamps! 
IDK about aerosol but regular paint should be disposed of properly, or at least take the tops off the cans and let it dry before throwing it in the curbside trash can.  Granted, I've done it the improper way, but I don't condone it at all. 
My full power ballasts give a "Rectifying" like flicker when cold (very rapid and hardly noticeable) but warm up pretty quickly.  My Sears shoplight with the Bonusline ballast used to do it every day even when it was like 80 degrees in my shut-up garage in the summer with a pair of those hilarious 2011 Sylvania F40/CWPs.  Then that light became a plant light though, with 90s GE Plant & Aquarium lamps. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 17, 2015, 07:36:36 PM
LOL you could always find it yourself since you have the highway number and exit number. :P ;D Anyway, I found it again lol.  here's the streetview of one of the lights.  (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.489224,-120.672364,3a,15y,295.38h,162.69t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sOxc8WQ91vVkZbKpjQ_Y1iw!2e0?hl=en-US) The lights are M-400A FCOs (and one AEL 325 FCO)

Ah I didn't think about that. Once it's dry it would be disposable? Some cans are liquidy stains that are designed to soak into the wood and be topcoated, so they wouldn't dry out. I can probably just stack the cans up and fit them all though. My grandma said if I find anything I want, I can have it, so I'm going to take home all the electrical stuff *eventually*. Hmm the Western Electric fixtures didn't have any flickering that I was aware of. They were just dim and maybe were a little more noisey. But they did eventually come up to full brightness (or close to it) in a matter of minutes. I turned two off and left the third on the whole time (I was taking multiple trips from the basement to the garage to throw stuff out) and the one I left on was over 2X brighter than thebothers when I turned them all on. Good quality old-school lighting I guess!

BTW, I upgraded the wiring of my F20/PH and 2X F8T5/PreHeat undercabinet lights today. I replaced the ungrounded lamp cords with grounded 18AWG round double-insulated cords. So now my undercabinet lights attached to the shelf/rack in the utility room are properly grounded. The two undercabinet lights are actually still wired against code though (since they're wired together like your Gibson Troffers. That is against code. In order for that to work in favor of the code, they need to be hardwired. Plus mine aren't installed in a linear fashion either, one is on one storage rack and the other is below it on the next rack down. But electrically it is safe. Just one of those stupid/random code things lol. The F20 preheat undercabinet light is the primary undercabinet light (it is the one with the cord that plugs into the wall) and the F8T5 fixture has its cord wired to the F20 (so no plug installed on the end of the F8T5's cord). The F8T5 has no onboard switch but the F20 one does, so I wired the F8T5 undecabinet light to the load side of the F20's switch, so the onboard switch on the F20 undercabinet fixture also controls the F8T5 undercabinet light. It was like this before I put the grounded cords on, but I don't think I ever explained how I wired it so there you go lol. Works well, but I need the F20 fixture more than the F8T5 fixture so the F8T5 fixture sees quite a few "useless" turn-ons, since they're on the same switch. I suppose I could install an onboard switch on the F8T5 undercabinet light but I just finished rewiring them and plan to leave them alone now lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 17, 2015, 08:59:43 PM
I wonder if the M-400A I'm involved with came off 101? It's entirely possible.  Or maybe not since it's only 250w. 
I'd think it would be better than throwing it out wet anyway! Stain might not do so well though. 
You know what's funny? At first I couldn't figure out what exit that was! But it turns out it's maybe .25 miles from the house I grew up in, I've taken this exit tons of times but in a speeding car, often at night, you don't notice things you do on Streetview!
Did you get to the Atascadero High school (Further up one of the roads accessed off this freeway exit) If so then you're REALLY close to where I was!
That overpass has been redone, it used to be totally different. Since it's within .25 miles of where I was living you could hear ALL the road construction noise at night...beep beep beep ALL NIGHT! Along with the "drummer bummers" (band practice) at the high school!   The church across the way was a common meeting point for ridesharing, etc. thanks to it's huge parking lot. 
http://www.instantstreetview.com/2dltwez14ir3ez2rdzqsz2u   Since it's near the same offramp I figured I'd share this.  This gas station-cum-muffler-shop used to have outdoor slimlines (Or maybe it was HOs) under the canopy.  They were totally out for years, then a few were working, then converted to T8. See the Carlton Hotel? That big neon sign on the roof was visible through the trees at night from my house.   
http://www.instantstreetview.com/2dlmx0z14in8gz2i1zr5z2u  Streetview took me here while trying to find my street.  See the roof of the house above the single-level blue one? Funny story: I ran into someone in Sitka who had a friend who lived there.   So ironically they had spent lots of time within a block of me for years!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 18, 2015, 10:14:55 AM
No, it wouldn't have come off a Caltrans freeway, since all Caltrans lights were either FCO, or drop lens with a glare sheild on them. Also, Caltrans lights never have PC sockets, yours does. Your light must have come from either a local utility company or maybe it was bought from somewhere else.

As for that Gas Station,  Here it is in 2009 before they remodeled it and installed T8s.  (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.48915,-120.670531,3a,48.2y,304.13h,94.89t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sMvnz5dYv58NUXuh0o6_vBQ!2e0?hl=en-US)   And right next to it, a 700W MV Westinghouse OV-50 with a glareshield.  (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.48915,-120.670531,3a,59y,2.95h,105.38t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sMvnz5dYv58NUXuh0o6_vBQ!2e0?hl=en-US)  Adjusting the streetview, it was replaced with a GE M-400A FCO.  (https://www.google.com/maps/@35.48915,-120.670531,3a,53.6y,10.09h,108.56t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sCuJelpqeaGUoYRZrFLFBSA!2e0?hl=en-US) Oddly enough, the M-400A is 250W HPS. 250W HPS generally replaces 400W MV, but perhaps that particular utility doesn't use 310W HPS? Because the OV-50 would have to be either 700 or 1000W MV, and I'm guessing the former rather than the latter.

Ah so cool that you met someone who used to live near you! On vacation in Ontario this past summer, we ran into a couple from Rhode Island that were on vacation the same time we were! Really cool how that works out. :D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 18, 2015, 04:18:30 PM
Interesting, I thought FCO was more of a recent thing for whatever reason.  Sure enough it was slimlines then! That's how I remember it.  You can tell they used a CMOS camera because of the flicker lines.  And they were daylight Altos...I remember that for sure.  That and the center one at the front used to work.  I would've liked to see it in it's day with F96T12/CW 75 watters! I had no idea a 700 watt MV light was there! I wish I was more alert to lighting back then. 
I'm doing radio research, like I said, and I found a pretty cool forum that talks about formats, etc...radiodiscussions.com.  And you'll get a laugh out of this I think, seeing we're so alike: (Beware one or two of them aren't totally G-rated but it's pretty hilarious! http://www.radiodiscussions.com/showthread.php?632982-Wildly-bizarre-ideas-of-radio-formats-that-would-never-fly

I can add a few to this list off the top of my head...
AM/FM station doing nothing but IDs/bumpers from other stations
AM or FM station doing nothing but "annoying" sounds...like the ding ding dine car-door-left-ajar sound, the "gas station doorbell", etc.

AM or FM station doing NOTHING but vehicle sounds: car door ajar sound, car alarms (sirens and horns), car starting sound, deuce-and-a-half whistler turbo sound, etc.

A whole station devoted to nothing but the sound effects of bratty kids throwing tantrums

And more realistically, a station with a really unusual/arbitraty playlist (This would probably actually fly where I live since it'd be the second station on the dial!):
Something like:
AC/DC-Hells Bells
Kelly Clarkson-Heartbeat song
Beach Boys- Good Vibrations
Trapt-Headstrong
Gordon Lightfoot-Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald
Fuel-Million Miles
Alice in Chains-Down in a Hole
Nelly Furtado-I'm like a bird


You get the idea...LOL
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 18, 2015, 05:25:37 PM
I think the first FCO fixtures came out around 1975-1977. By 1977, a limited selection of FCOs were available (from GE, the M-250R1 was available in FCO as of 1977 and the M-400A FCO was as well. The M-400 split door was never offered in FCO, just the M-400A. My guess as for why they did that was to push people towards their more expensive Powr/Door™ fixture line as part of a marketing gimmick or something. The M-250R1 is a single-door unit, but the refractor isn't as tilted, so they didn't need to make any special modifications to make it FCO other than swap out the refractor for a flat lens (and after a few years, GE made a new special FCO reflector for the M-250R1). The M-250A was also made in a rare FCO version. I think it was only around for a short period of time in the very late 70s to early 80s, since it's not in my 1977 catalog.

The 1977 Catalog I have includes the M-250R1, M-250A Powr/Door™, M-400 split door, M-400A Powr/Door, M-250R1 FCO, M-400A Powr/Door™ FCO, and M-1000 in that order.

As for Westinghouse, The Tudor line was made in FCO, since the refractors already didn't have a tilt to them. The traditional OV-15 and OV-25 weren't made in FCO. Westinghouse used the same tudors for FCO and drop lens, just the FCO glass was serrated instead of clear. No 1000W cobraheads from any brand were ever made in FCO. Once Cooper took over though, they made the L-150 and L-250 available in FCO and the OVM and OVS were available in FCO too, even though the refractor was tilted upwards, so those fixtures aren't true FCO fixtures (and they look terrible in FCO too!).

As for ITT/Thomas & Betts, their FCO fixtures were just the same as the drop lens ones, except they painted the inside of the reflector to diffuse the light better. AEL still does that today with their FCO fixtures. I personally think the Model 25s look bad in FCO since the optics are tilted and I'm not a huge fan of the 13 or 113/115 being FCO either, but the 313/315 and 125/325 look OK FCO.

I'm pretty sure GE was the first to pioneer the FCO optics. Westinghouse and American Electric/ITT/Thomas & Betts followed suit shortly after. But GE is the only one to make sure that their FCO lights are actully true cut-off fixtures (the refractors are always angled down on FCO lights, rather than tilted upward, so no light goes above 90 degrees. And Westinghouse did the same with their TuDors but never made a special FCO single-doored OV-15 of OV-25 (instead, they offered a TuDor with a ballast mounted in the top housing, so it was essentially a two-doored single door fixture lol. In other words, the ballast door was simply a cover, just like the M-400 split door.)

Ah you can tell they're SLs from the picture? I couldn't tell lol. I guess down there you could use slimlines outdoors. Here slimlines wouldn't do well outdoors in the cold (I'm sure even HOs aren't full-brightness). Every gas station or service station canopy I've seen has HIDs, since they can perform well in cold. LEDs do great in the cold (in fact their efficacy peaks at -22 degrees!) but the heat is what kills them...

LOL that's hillarious. What about a station dedicated to bathroom sounds? Toilets flushing, "ka-ploops" from people letting out logs, farts, etc lol. There's so many stations but they never have anything "good" on. I have a number of stations that I listen to, but I've never heard any of my favorite songs on the radio. I guess there's not a big enough audience out there with similar tastes to me.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 18, 2015, 08:52:50 PM
It makes sense since I saw some 70s GE add somewhere that had a FCO cobra.  Personally I think FCO looks ugly unless it's something like that M-400A FCO at that muffler shop we streetviewed.  I find "fatter" ones don't look "right" without a sag lens.  Though I think my fave would have to be those clear poly refractors like those ones in Sitka.  They look "clean" to me, without yellowing. 
I could swear I've seen M-1000s that were FCO...would that be a later refractor replacement or something?
I find those glareshields like that one in Atascadero pretty ugly though, I'd rather FCO. 
I looked at it again to be sure and I'm almost certain they're slimlines, though I can't tell for SURE.  With 75 watt lamps they'd work fine, even in winter unless it got REALLY chilly.  From what Aaron has told me (Never seen 75 watt lamps that much in person, much less cold starting outdoors in freezing weather) with a 2-lamp ballast you're fine down to about freezing and with single lampers down to zero-ish.  So in central CA they'd do just fine with 75 watt lamps.  But I remember driving by here years ago and seeing them flicker, so I'm almost certain 60w lamps were used (Not suprising back then, full wattage lamps were pretty hard to find after EPACT and before the latest regulations.).  I also remember seeing a lamp with a yellowed/browned end (that wasn't lit) there, which I now know to be a tube guard cooked by a violent show from a dying slimline on the lead side.  (Lag side just rectifies and is VERY bad for the ballast from what I'm told).  My 60w slimlines never warm up this time of year, they're usably bright but have this obnoxious flicker that makes then annoying to work under!
I actually think some 60w daylight slimlines would be cool, just for the cool factor since I don't really see them. 
Here in the winter 75 watt slimlines might be JUST okay as well, though they'd probably need some warmup time.  Best ones though are a friend's Lithonia F48T12 industrials in their shop, they struggle for a few minutes (Because they're Altos) then get bright quickly, even in miserable 20 degree temps.  I'd like to find some HOs someday myself. 
Does anyone know if F48T12/HO lamps were still full wattage and halophoshate after EPACT? And if so are they still that way now?
I like that idea! That might fit in a market of 8 year olds really well! I cracked up reading that thread!  My personal favorites (That I laughed the hardest about) were the FM station playing videogame music, the AM station playing classic static (That's easy, go to any vacant spot on the AM dial!), the FM station with the hospital intercom, the AOL dial up moderm sounds (Laughed REALLY hard with that one), the emergency broadcast tests from the 60s, 70s, and 80s one made my chest hurt as well.  Then I would have to say the McDonalds' drive thru audio surpasses that, as does the explosion station ID!

Some more of my own:
Live broadcasts of the 911 switchboard for the city of license,
A whole radio station dedicated to ballast/starter sounds
Something broadcasting nothing but vehicle sounds (I think I had one similar to that already) but this would include the "backup sound", brakes squealing, etc.
A station of a "real" format where the DJs, IDs, commercials, etc. are in the exact same quality they'd be on a smartphone on speaker mode. 
OK seriously though, how about my idea for a station with a really arbitrary playlist? I can almost see that one flying in some places. 


I hear lots of good stuff I like on the radio, only thing I hate is I can't play it again if it's a really good song!

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 18, 2015, 10:35:15 PM
Ah yeah GE had an ad in the late-70s/early 80s featuring an M-400A FCO with a couple shoeboxes, advertising FCOs. I think The M-250R2, M-250A2, newer M-400/M-400A, 313/315, 125/325, OVH, and TuDors look OK as FCO since the refractor angle is little or none. The reason those clear refractors don't yellow is because they're acrylic. Acrylic plastic lenses don't yellow. The prismatic drop lenses there are polycarbonate, which yellows out. It's not that prismatic lenses yellow and clear ones don't, it's just the material they're made from.

Yeah David F has some pics of "FCO" M-1000s but they must be replacement panels since there never was an FCO large cobrahead. I guess there just wasn't a market for one. BTW, I'm getting a GE M-250A2 FCO sometime in the next couple of months! :D It's a 50W HPS though, not 100/175W MV. But that works out since the 50W HPS is 120V as opposed to the 100/175W MV, which would have been 240V. The light actually was originally 100/175W MV and came from Worcester, MA. In the 90s, the guy who's giving it to me had rebuilt 200+ cobraheads out of removed lights. The M-250A2 was removed simply because it was a MV. He had replaced the ballast with a 50W HPS from a GE M-250R2 of the same age that was removed as roadkill. So the ballast is age-correct and also a GE, so it's an OEM-rebuild. I'm going to keep it 50W HPS since I really like 80s HPS fixtures. Maybe I'll find another M-250A2 FCO someday that's 100/175W MV but for now this is the next best thing!

Hmm I'm trying to remember how my grandpa's slimlines behaive at his shop in the winter. I've been trying to get rid of all the 60W lamps. If I replace a lamp and the other working lamp is 60W I replace both lamps but if the other good lamp is 75W it stays. Just my way of getting rid of the 60W lamps lol. The 60W lamps are really no good in the cold. They're decently bright but like you said, the flicker is crazy. The 75W lamps aren't flickery but they are a little dimmer in the cold. I wouldn't want 60W daylights but maybe 75W ones. They'd have to be triphosphor though since the dayligh halos are too dim for me. The F48T12/HOs sold at Lowe's here are 60W, which is full power, I think. They're cool white Sylvanias.

BTW, the F32T8/IS bathroom fixture at my grandpa's shop is holding up! I asked him if it's still working and he said yes, so the ballast and at least one of the lamps is still working lol. I was honestly expecting the lamps to be mercury-starved by now, especially if he runs it 24/7. If I buy the new T8s for it though, I'll definitely be buying GEs or Sylvanias though lol. I'll probably stick with 3500K since it's a bathroom and it gives a bit of warmth to the unpainted cinderblock-walled bathroom with a bare concrete floor and bare metal ceiling with all sorts of ductwork and stuff. A very utilitarian bathroom lol. The office is the only non-utilitarian room, with a drop ceiling, troffers, wood paneling walls, and worn-out carpeting IIRC.

LOL  what about a station of WalMart fights/arguments between shoppers and employees?

Actually, there is a station like that one here that plays "the most variety" of music. I heard Born on the Bayou by CCR and the next song was by some new female pop artist lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 18, 2015, 11:25:51 PM
Yeah I bet we're thinking of the same ad then! The clear refractors are acrylic? I thought polycarbonate didn't yellow but maybe I'm wrong...I was thinking of a certain brand (SunTuf) of clear plastic roofing like you'd use for a porch, greenhouse, etc...I'm pretty sure that stuff is polycarbonate and it DOESN'T BREAK! (Well, NOT very easily!)
Is this guy Joe M. Jr.  Or someone else? Are they a streetlight enthusiast as well as a fluorescent person? Nice that it's 50w too, that's not too bright for indoor use! How many streetlights do you have now anyway? (Including NEMAs, I know you have (or at least had) at least one of those, a Westy 100w MV IIRC),
Daylight being dim? Yeah it can seem that way for sure.  But I like the effect...I think /DX is halophosphate still.  (It doesn't have that typical triphosphor afterglow). 
I like 6500K, even for a bathroom, but yeah 3500K will indeed "feel" warmer.  If you really want something bright for slimlines, try 3500K 75w lamps as 3500K usually is one of the brighter colors.  (Although I'm fine with sacraficing lumens for higher CCT; I'm a /DX or /950 fan as you already know).
Yeah are the troffers 70s-ish? I wonder what they have for ballasts?
That would be HILARIOUS! I would dial that one up for a few minutes when I needed a laugh (But not if I was driving so I couldn't swerve off the road because I was laughing too hard!)  Have you witnessed any good WalMart arguements in person? I honestly haven't but yeah there's that Wally World stereotype for sure.  Would it be "live" or prerecorded?  I can't even imagine what the ID for that station would be...Don't touch that dial! You're tuned to KWAL (Or WWAL) Walmart Arguement radio!
Okay, how about a station that played normal music but all the commercials were "funny" ones? That might get some listenership!
Or a live feed from a divorce counseler/family law attorney's office?
Yeah I like "Mix" type radio stations a lot...I get tired of one specific genre. 
 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 19, 2015, 11:05:23 AM
Nope, acrylic is the one that doesn't yellow. Polycarbonate is more impact-resistant than acrylic but polycarbonate must be UV-stabilized with a special UV-aging retardant. If you leave an empty one of those big water jugs (the ones that go upside-down in those water despensors) out in the sun for a few years, the light blue tint to the plastic will disappear and the jug will turn brownish. Once the polycarbonate has yellowed/browned, it's actually weaker than acrylic! So polycarbonate is good for use as a vandal-resistant refractor, but acrylic has a longer service life, provided that the lamp isn't too high of a wattage and isn't prone to vandalism. Acrylic is also cheaper than polycarbonate. The stuff you're thinking of probably has some sort of overcoating on it that blocks UV rays and prevents the polycarbonate from yellowing. Most products for applications like that have a UV-blocking technology to them so you won't get sunburn on your own porch lol.

Nope, not Joe. His name is Steve (member "slz" on here). I haven't met him yet. He's getting rid of some duplicates and among them are the rebuilt M-250A2 FCO and a crescent moon incandescent, which he generously has set aside for me. I think the crescent moon incandescent is from the late 50s or early 60s, since it has a twist-lock PC socket as opposed to a tube-powered PC socket (these older tube-powered PC sockets were huge compared to today's, the size of an electric meter on a house and were actually sealed in the same type glass jar as a house meter or a vaportight incandescent! They had made both of those types. I don't really know much about tube-powered PCs but they made adapters to convert the tube-powered PC sockets to twist-lock bases so modern solid-state PCs can be used (modern meaning late 50s-present day twist-lock photocells).

Hmm. I have 11 street lights (12 if you count the 1964 M-400 that I'm holding for my friend Marco, who must not want it that badly since he hasn't made an attempt to come and get it. Maybe I'll end up keeping it or something, who knows. It needs capacitors though since the original ones were removed from the fixture when it was taken down, since they contained PCBs.). I have my NOS M-400 split door, OV-25 remote ballast, M-400A2, M-250R, M-250A, OV-10IB, OVC, M-250R1, M-250R1 Chicago Edition, Westinghouse OV-15TD FCO, and the Westinghouse RMA NEMA head, which yep, still have and yep it's 100W merc. :) I think that's all of them lol. Plus I have six ballast-less Holophane highbays and over 50 photocells. I have a tote full of HID lamps, a big cardboard box full of all kinds of residential lamps (everything from vintage incandescents to PL adapters, to circline adapters, to LED PAR lamps, etc) that weighs a TON! Then I have my linear fluorescents, which are all stored at ground level (none on shelves). I have a case of thirty F20s behind the basement couch, an area where I stash my F40s and F30s (and my two 30" F25T12 Sylvania lamps from 1962) in the laundry room, and an area where I keep more F20s and my F15s in the utility room. I also have four F40s in the utility room. My F14T12 lamps are all stored in my bedroom in a box. The box is right underneath my box of photocells.

Yep, I'm pretty sure /DX is halophosphate. They're pretty dim IMO. For triphosphor lamps, all the color temps have the same CRI and lumen output, which is nice. I think 3500K F96T12s would be cool but hard to come by. And if I were to hve him special-order lamps (which he'd never do anyway) I'd have him get 5000K triphosphor lamps since they're bright and a nice cooler color. Yeah, I thought the troffers were 70s looking but the ballasts in one of them were both ValMont ValMiser ballasts, which are from the very-late-80s or early 90s. They're from before 1994 though since ValMont sold their ballast division off to Power Lighting Products or something at that time.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 19, 2015, 11:06:40 PM
OK the UV-stabilized thing makes sense. Oh wow 11? Most of my lamps are in my storage loft (F40s, etc.) along with most incandescents, HIDs, etc.  A few are in my room though, but not many.  I have around 70 F40/F34 lamps though, that's the bulk of what my collection is. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 20, 2015, 07:02:22 AM
Yeah I can't believe 11 either lol. Wow 70 F40s! I think I have around the same number of F20s as you have of F40s though. I have a box of thirty NOS F20/WW lamps, so that inflates my collection quite a bit. I'd rather have any other color temp than WW but the lamps were $1 each so I couldn't pass them up (though that's 2 or 4 times what I'd pay at the ReStore lol)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 20, 2015, 09:54:10 PM
Yeah it inflates my collection a lot.
I started a class today to get closer to obtaining a captain's license!  ;D  It's over video-conferencing and it turns out a friend is also in there!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 21, 2015, 08:58:24 PM
Ah great! I know how much you like boats so I hope you can get your captain's license! 8)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 21, 2015, 11:00:34 PM
Yeah I've spent a pretty good chunk of my life on/around them, so yeah I hope so.  A couple mutual family friends do exactly what I plan to be doing, so I get lots of advice from them.  Not many people have stood watch on the mailboat serving their small/rural community...but I have! I'm more of a wood boat person though. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 21, 2015, 11:54:10 PM
OK remember that near-EOL GE Ecolux F32T8/SP35 in my bathroom light? Now upon startup sometimes it dim-glows for a whole minute or so, much like a failed F20-40 rapid start lamp or F96T12 slimline or HO lamp, except instead of the other lamp being off it's full brightness! Then it "flickers" to life, but acts mercury starved; dim in the middle and striating a bit.  It still warms up to full brightness in a couple minutes and I'm curious how much longer it will last.  If it were a single-lamp fixture I'd replace it but since it's a 2-lamp wraparound there's still plenty of light in there until it warms up.  I would take a photo but I doubt it would turn out well enough to do justice to what it looks like in person.
Also the pair of old-etch (pre-'92) F40C50s I have in use are also nearing the end I think.  They have some substantial banding, typical of older GE fluorescents, and may last a while longer but I give them a year, tops, even in residential use.  At least one was in HEAVY commercial use (12+ hours a day most likely) at my school, and the other...not sure but I found it underneath the local post office building.  For secondhand lamps they've done well already, clocking I'd say at least 500 hours in the last 2 years or so. 
I also have a Sylvania F40/DAYLIGHTFULLSPECTRUM (Design 50) that seemed almost toast when I first got it (It had been given the misinserted-in-the-socket-on-a .47a-with-F40s LPF ballast treatment before).  But I swear the blackening cleaned up a bit! (It lives on a shunted-for-one lamp full power Universal Therm-O-Matic).  We'll see how much longer IT lasts, too!
I also have a couple spiral CFLs I think are nearing the end too.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 22, 2015, 04:36:18 PM
Ah interesting. The lamp is nearing the end lol. So far, the three GE SPX35 EcoLuxes from 2006 (original to the fixture) are still going in my F32T8 Lithonia IS troffer. I have one spare 2006 SPX35 GE left to use as a replacement for one lamp when it fails but after that I'll need to buy new lamps. I'll probably still just buy 3500K GE lamps (which would probably still be SPX unless Lowes only sells SP, though I think they stopped making the SP and 700 Series lamps? I still see them online though). I'll only replace the failed lamps though. If it was a commercial installation I may replace all the lamps to reduce maintenance calls but in my own fixtures I have plenty of time on my hands to replace bulbs right now (in fact, I almost look forward to bulbs in my house going since I then get to service the fixture lol, then again, these SPX GEs are the original lamps to the fixture, so I don't want them to die since they're original and I think that's pretty cool. The lamps are jet black on both ends though (except for the center lamps, which is only totally blackened on one end and has only black spots where the electrode stems are on the etch end). I'm not sure why the center lamp has a different wear pattern but they must be the original lamps since they were still installed in the fixture when they removed them. There were three of them removed in total. Only one had a parabolic door/louvers so I took that one and I took all the "guts" out of the other two (ballast out of each, sockets, and lamps). The two other fixture top housings ended up in the dumpster. There was a lensed troffer down there too that was really ratty but I never got to it (I would have taken the lamps, sockets, and ballast out of that one too).

Lamp life has a lot to do with the frequency that it's switched. If the lamp is in a residential place but in a frequently-switched application, then the lamps will not last on any ballast other than RS. The light in laundry room is frequently switched and I'm surprised the lamps aren't near already to be honest. They were jet black on the ends when I got them so I figured they were right at or near EOL. They probably wouldn't light on magnetic T8RS or they'd at least struggle.

The most recent lamp I've changed that has actually burned out was a 40W GE soft white incandescent I installed in my brother's room after one of his CFLs died. Back quite a few years ago (well, around 10 I guess) we had gotten some 13W GE CFLs and we had installed them in the kitchen/dining room (four in each of the two fixtures) and they were installed in my and my brother's rooms (three in each bedroom). Everything else remained incandescent. Then I bought LEDs for my room in April 2012 because I couldn't stand the CFLs in my room and didn't want the heat from incandescents (I like to keep my room as cool as possible, when it get's cold I just open my heat vent to warm it up). One of my three CFLs ended up in one of the "boob lights" downstairs. Another ended up in the "mushroom light" over the sink, which has two lamps. The third eventually ended up in my parents' bedroom fixture, which also has two lamps (their room is bigger than mine and my brothers yet we both have three lamps in our rooms and they have only two lol).

Then, one of the CFLs in my brother's room died, so it got replaced with a 40W Philips incandescent. The CFL miraculously came back to life after tinkering with it, so it went in one of the lights next to the front door. (It stayed there until we replaced the lights next to the garage, when I replaced all four lamps out front with halogens.) So then that CFL ended up somewhere. Maybe I just stuck it in the recylcing box at lowes to get rid of it... Then the Philips incandescent died and I stuck in a use 40W GE SW from my dad's parents' dining room fixture (from when I stuck in halogens for them so they'd get more light without raising their bill by a lot) Then last week the GE died so I stuck in an NOS no-name 60W incandescent. So now his bedroom fixture has a 60W SW incandescent, an IS GE CFL, and a PS GE CFL. My room still has its three LEDs. I forget what lamps are in my parents' fixture since the cover fully encloses the lamps, but one is a PS GE CFL since there's a second-delay before the lamp comes on.

Out in the kitchen/dining room (my kitchen, dining room, and living room is all one big open studio-style room with a high ceiling) the dining room ceiling fan had all four CFLs still working. The kitchen chandelier had one CFL fail, which I spot-replaced with an enclosed A19-shape MaxLite CFL. Then a second one was spot-replaced with another MaxLite CFL. Finally, I decided to just replace all the remaining exposed tube CFLs with MaxLite enclosed CFLs since the enclosed ones look better. The only downside is that the stupid things take like three minutes to reach full brightness, which I usually don't mind, but it's nice to have instant-full-brightness light sometimes, especially when I'm home alone lol. When I'm home after dark I leave a lot of lights on lol. I don't know why I'm so paranoid of someone breaking in, but I just get nervous when I'm home alone. Not sure why. I forget what the mushroom light over the sink has but the hallway mushroom light still has both original 57W Sylvania SuperSaver lamps. I've replaced the kitchen sink mushroom light's lamps quite a few times but I haven't recently, which leads me to believe there are CFLs inside there.

As for the ''boob'' lights in the basement, thre are four, two "main" ones that share a switch and get the most use, and the other two are on their own switches, one gets moderate use and the other rarely sees any use at all. The latter was the fixture I took the original 1999 Philips 60W SW incandescent from, replacing it with a 57W "energy efficient" SATCO inside-frost lamp. The ones that share a switch have had their 60W lamps replaced a few times over the years. The one near the computer (on its own switch which sees moderate use) originally had an incandescent, then it had one of the CFLs from my room, then it had a 60W GE reveal which lasted a month, then we finally bought four 53W GE soft white halogens and I group-relamped the three that see regular use. Then recently I had to replace the twin-switched boob lights since the lamps were super dimmed and one finally blew out. I left the GE halogen in the single fixture since it's not really dimmed out much, though it does seem dimmer than the new Sylvania clear halogens. We'll see how much longer the Sylvanias last... As for the 90W SuperSaver keyless sockets, they actually never made it long enough in service to burn out. The one in the laundy room had a big CFL with a worklight reflector for the longest time since the 90W incandescent wasn't enough (dunno what happened to the 90W lamp). Then I replaced the utility room keyless socket and the laundry room keyless socket with F17T8 fluorescents (which were superseded by 4ft fluorescents) and then one of the two garage keyless sockets was replaced with a duplex outlet for the fluorescent lights out there. There's only the one remaing 90W keyless socket left, and I think it's there to stay. I don't think my dad is up for drilling anymore holes in the drywalled ceiling since we missed the joists a few times lol. One of the removed 90W incandescents is now in use at my great-aunt's house in the pull-chain I used to replace the pull-chain WE F20 fixture in her basement. The other 90W SuperSaver was in use in the 60W-MAX mushroom light over the sink, but it died and was replaced, I think by a 13W CFL. I don't know if the CFL is still around, but both lamps, whatever they are, are still working.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 22, 2015, 08:58:11 PM
It finally died this morning.  It wouldn't light all the way (glowing dim purple) then lit but had the characteristic blue end.  Later I came back and it was out.  Stuck a F40WW Mainlighter lamp in there as a replacement as I have no extra T8 lamps here.  (They work fine on those electronic ballasts but life is somewhat reduced in a frequently switched bathroom light).
It was actually original to the fixture/installation from around 2011 but was taken out at one point.  So it did about 2 years I'd say. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 23, 2015, 07:08:26 AM
Wow two years is terrible! Those things are rated for like 24000 hours! If it ran 24/7 for year years, it would only have ~17000 hours. Even frequently-switched, that's terrible. Unless you meant 2years as in two years running (because 17000 hours isn't bad, but obviously you didn't run i for two years straight lol).

Going to my grandmas house tonight. Will grab some goodies. ;D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 23, 2015, 02:29:15 PM
Yeah it is kinda poor I guess...but I thought it did pretty well for what it was. 
Good luck, post pics!
Title: Re: The Off-Topic Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on January 23, 2015, 04:37:33 PM
Yeah TBH, I don't think an F32T8 would make it 24000 hours. But who's counting anyway? No one really cares lol. Most large installations are relamped every few years anyway. I like the idea of group-relamping but it's such a waste removing all good lamps. What I like, is what is practiced here on the freeways: they do scheduled relamping but only replace failed lamps. That way, they wait for a good amount of lamps to be out and only replace bad lamps. I hate places that replace every single lamp when they do a relamp. I guess they figure the remaining good lamps will be dead soon, but who knows. There's always those lamps that never make it more than a few months and then there are the lamps that will last for years without quitting! Personally, if I were to do relamping, I'd replace all the lamps in a particular fixture (if the lamps all have visible wear or are a different color temperature) but if a fixture has all the lamps working, I'm not even going to waste time climbing the ladder to replace the lamps!

Now, my high school's custodians REALLY need to do some relamping in the votech building, especially in the lower level hallway. Both (upstairs and downstairs) hallways in the votech building are shaped like an L (just in case you were wondering). All the hallway lights are 2X4 3X F32T8 Lithonia parabolic troffers except for two troffers upstairs that are 2X2 parabolics with those long 24" electronic PL lamps. Neither of the 2X2 fixtures have worked as long as I've been there. The custodians will replace lamps if someone complains/brings it to their attention, but obviously no one does, sothey stay. I did mention the downstairs boys bathroom had only one lamp working in the votech bathroom and they relamped both three lamp lensed 2X4 troffers (one's got a dead ballast though). The left the one 3500K GE lamp in that worked and literally three days later it was dead! lol. But there's one troffer near the double-doors to my construction shop (the hallway is closed off by double-doors leading to my construction shop, probably to try and block out noise from the shop) and it's got one lamp left working and it flickers when someone slams the doors (which happens almost every time since they close forcefully) and I swear it's on its way out, but so far it's still going and doesn't have a ton of wear. It's got moderate wear, but usually GEs get jet-black before failing. It's so weird how some of the lamps are jet black on the ends while others have only light-moderate wear. They were all installed the same time, are the same type of lamp, and all are on the same amount of time, so it's weird how some fixtures are "loosing" their lamps faster than others. Some fixtures have all three lamps working. This makes me think that the lights are on separate circuits and every third light or something is on the same switch and maybe they leave/used to leave one set of lights on overnight. I know in the main building they leave one set of lights in the hallways overnight. The main building's hallways have lights on muliple circuits too. Sometimes during the day there's two lights on, one off, two lights on, one off, but sometimes the pattern is disruppted for soem reason. Two lights next to each other are never on the same switch though. In the "E-Building" and in the "C-2 Wing" the hallway lights are all on a single switch.

Sure! I'll post some pics sometime this weekend! I will grab the faceplates and I guess basically everything electrical-related down there that I can fit in the box I'm bringing lol. No lamps (yet...)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 23, 2015, 05:44:20 PM
I know Philips even rates their F40s at 24,000 too! (Unlike 20K for Sylvania and 15K for GE-made store-brand F40s). 
I like group-relamping but hate the waste of lamps too. But when I was doing lights at my school I'd replace both lamps in a fixture (All full power F40 ballasts too BTW) and take the still-working but worn one home with me.  I scored quite a few 34w GE Watt-Misers that way but used many of them up and they got cooked on an electronic ballast and recycled, and others are in use on all my residential LPF ballasts. 
The room the Metalux/Gibson troffers came from (with many more of those exact fixtures) could use a relamp but it's still bright enough in there and the ceiling is REALLY high so it's a pain to relamp.  Tall ladders, scared of heights, carrying lamps up and down, breaking thumbnails trying to open the little tabs that hold the doors on the fixtures, and the fact that those are pain to relamp no matter what means I wouldn't want to do it either until it was pitch black in there.  But all those old Universal and Advance ballasts have been stuck with dead lamps for months/years, as well as 34 watt lamps.  I don't like using 34 watters on PCB ballasts in general, even those made after '74 when the energy savers came out.  But this building was built in '79, when they'd been around for a few years, and I'm certain my two fixtures from there have had 34 watt lamps in their past, though when I removed them the lamps were "Westpointe" (True Value) GE-made 40w cool white.  One of them did have a nearly-NOS Norelco though, since we came across a case of them there NOS and admittedly installed them in commercial service. If that place went T8 though and I got to save all the old lamps/ballasts I'd be sure to take all 20+ of them first though, vintage trumps modern for me.
CAN  a rapid start ballast be hurt by having EOL lamps for years? I don't think so but still wonder.    I have, however, seen some REALLY black lamps that dim-glowed for extended periods, with cathodes still heated until they totally burned away.  One like that was a post-Mainlighter GE F40CW, and those things usually have short blackening!
Speaking of post-Mainlighter GE F40CWs with the "old" etch, today I was at the last surviving building of the cold storage complex those vaportight husks that had the post-PCB October 1980 Advance Kool-Koils came from.  Two of those fixtures are still there but don't work and are lampless and I bet those early 80s Advance ballasts are the culprit. They're also visibly disconnected.  I might try to get them though in hopes they do work.  There's also a few F40 lamps there I'm going to ask about, including a post-mainlighter GE F40CW that from the etch end anyway looks pretty new, if not NOS, a couple GTE Sylvania F40CW lamps (One is bad though I think), and some other shatter-guard (Satco?) lamps.  And another GE I'm not sure what it is.  (They were in boxes and I pulled them out far enough to see etches if they were on that end but since they're not my lamps I didn't want to snoop around too much.
There's also a (sign?) fixture there with a (Robertson?) F40/30 preheat ballast I think.  If I find something else that's truly preheat I'll convert that shoplight back to rapid start.  Ideally I want to find a single lamp strip and make THAT preheat.  A NPF ballast is ideal anyway, since I want something that will play nice with 34 watt lamps, since I have some of those I want to use up.
That place also has some abandoned incandescent vaportights that probably have pre-1989 lamps (Or even pre-1982).  Most of that place burnt to the ground in '89, and it had closed in '82.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 23, 2015, 09:54:14 PM
Yeah when I relamp a fixture I would probably replace all the lamps in a given fixture but in my grandpa's fixtures at his shop and in his basement, I only replace the bad lamps. Since pretty much all the lamps are Altos, I have no interest in keeping the working pair for myself and I figure why waste a still-working lamp, so I only replace the bad lamp(s). At the shop, when I replace a lamp or two in a fixture, I remove all the lamps and wipe them with a wet cloth or paper towel and I wipe down the relfector/strip channel cover for the slimlines or the inside and diffuser if it's a troffer. a LOT of dirt/dust on the fixtures at his shop! His basement isn't bad, so I don't wipe the lamps or inside of the troffers when I relamp but every once in a while I'll get Windex and paper towels and wipe down the inside of the diffuser.

I don't like using reduced-wattage lamps period, not only because they tend to hurt the ballast (well, not slimlines since most ballasts are also rated for F72s and thus won't overheat with 60W F96T12s) but also because of the fact that ES lamps are dimmer than full-wattage. I want bright lights! Of course, my Cooper Turret has 34W lamps, simply because I have 34W lamps to use and the lamps are NOS like the fixture and also similar in age to the fixture so the 34W lamps (full-mercury Philips) could pass as the "original" lamps to the fixture. I'll keep them in until they burn out. They'll still be working when I take the fixture to my own house in the future, since they really aren't used much and they're on RS. I don't really use any of my fluorescents a lot. When they are used it's generally for less than an hour (most times it's actually just a few minutes).

Umm, well, from what I've been told, no, RS ballasts aren't affected by dead or missing lamps but there was a troffer in my grandpa's shop that has EOL tubes for years (they just did the dim flicker thing) and now the ballasts do nothing for like two minutes and all of a sudden the lamps instant-start. I don't know if it has slowly recovered from that or not. NExt time I'm at his shop I'll try it. When I first relamped it, even a split-second shut-off after the lamps have been running for hours would cause it to stay out for a minute and then the lamps would randomly instant-start after a minute or two when you least expect it lol. He leaves the lights on all day while he's there so I don't think it bothers him any. Yeah there's a 2X F40T12/RS fixture in the votech building at my school that doesn't work. One of the lamps was dimly glowing but now it's totally out. I think the lamps are 34W Sylvanias, full mercury. In the Aquaculture shop (fish tanks votech class) their "safety light" is also still F40/RS too and had a pair of working /CW lamps that striated when I turned them on, so they're 34W. However, I noticed the fixture doesn't work at all for whatever reason. I tried the switch and nothing. :(   The "safety light" in my construction shop was converted to F32T8/PS though (with Sylvania F32/741s, one's dead already). I plan to bring in a pair of lamps for the F40/RS in the second shop we use (formerly the automechanics shop, but that program was nixed due to budget cuts several years ago). The fixture appears to have 24/7 power since oddly enough, there's no switch for it whereas all the other "safty lights" I've seen are on switches. It still has power because we use the oulet underneath it to plug in power tools (the outlet is fed by conduit that comes out of the fixture and I assume both are on the same circuit). And I'll probably bring in a lamp for the T8 "safety light" too. Right now I don't have my own car so I can't drive to school but I hope to get one in the next year or so. When I do, I'll bring in the lamps. I'll also bring in one of my street lights to show the kids in my shop class.

Sounds like a lot of school stuff could have been in that building. To bad most of it was burned down. :-(

Well, I got a boatload of stuff AND I got the bulbs too, ;D I got single-gang almond and brown toggle switch and duplex receptacle wallplates (and some metal duplex receptacle wallpates), copper/aluminum wire-rate wirenuts, really cool vintage bakelite wirenuts, some single-gang old work boxes, a double-gang workbox with a cover, a bunch of romex clamps and romex staples, a box of utility company square washers addressed Narragansett Electric from Westinghouse, a bunch of NOS duplex receptacles, some fuses, some wire-on male plugs (ungrounded unfortunately, so I can't use them on my fluorescent lights unless I run a separate ground wire, which I may end up doing in my future shop since the ungrounded male plugs are SO much cheaper than the grounded ones. The grounded ones are like 3X more for some reason. I also got other stuff too! Pics to come tomorrow or sunday! :D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 23, 2015, 11:18:16 PM
Yeah I like group relamping individual fixtures but my bathroom light I just relamped is mixed colors (/WW and SPX35), mixed wattages (32w and 40w) AND mixed types! (F32T8 AND F40T12). But those electronic ballasts don't care if they have to run a T12 lamp.
That's sweet of you to fix fixtures there at the school! But I've done it too:) People can't believe teens know how to fix a fluorescent light!
What bulbs did you get? (That's what I'm most curious about I must admit). BTW, Have you gotten any closer to getting the basement F40 preheaters with more daylight Lifelines and that Norelco-made Philips F40CW? (I know that they're at a different relative's house but still).
Yeah slimlines are fine with 60w lamps but the darn 60w slimlines are the worst of the energy saver lamps so it's really just as bad! 34w ones warm up in 40 degree temps, even in stuff like LOA shoplights, but the 8ft 60w ones never warm up in temps below about 60 degrees!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 24, 2015, 06:10:43 PM
Gee all mixed up, eh? :P ;D Yeah, T8 ballasts will run a T12, but the T12 will be under-driven and will fail early. On the contrary, a T12 ballast will overdrive a T8 lamp. If it's a magnetic ballast, the ballast will probably be the one to take the bullet but elelectronic T12 ballasts might live through a T8 lamp. The lamp wouldn't last long though lol. It would be driven like 1.5X what it's supposed to be driven at!

LOL thanks. Lamps I bought for the fixtures at school? None yet. I'll probably use a pair of Sylvania F40/CWX lamps I already have for the T12/RS one and I'll just find a random F32T8 for the one in my shop. I may buy a pair of GE F32T8 5000K lamps for the fixture and keep the working Sylvania. I'd replace some of the lamps in the 2X4 troffers in the construction hallway but I know my shop teacher wouldn't allow that and if he did, we could both get in trouble. If I were to replace the lamps in those, I'd replace all the lamps and use 5000K GEs. And I'd keep the working SPX35s.

Nope, no update on my aunt's and uncle's basement. I don't ask because I don't want to pry at them lol. They're extremely busy and I hardly see them so I don't want the few times I see them "to be all about the lights". I've made it clear that I want the fixtures so I trust that my uncle will save them and the lamps when he removes them.

I got pics of all the stuff I got from my late-grandpa's shelf and will post later this evening or tomorrow.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 24, 2015, 06:31:15 PM
I never thought of that, but that actually might be a good way to get more light out of a F32T8, although lamp life would probably be noticeably reduced.  I'd be okay with that though, sacraficing lamp life for higher output.
I'm going to try to ask about those F40 lamps in that building I mentioned...they're on my "radar" for lighting goodies.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 24, 2015, 11:08:23 PM
I'd ask someone like Don or Trent if it would be safe for the electronic T12 ballast though. F32T8s and F40T12s are very different beasts despite having common fixtures sizes and socket types.

Go for it! Hopefully you can get them. :D I might ask my construction teacher if I can bring in a case of lamps to fix the hallway 2X4 troffers and the lights out in the shop. There are six three-lamp Lithonia troffers in "our section" of the hallway. Four are together and the other two are together, separated by a doorway, but no doors. I think three of the fixtures are emergency lights, so the center lamps on those is not designed to be on when power is applied. In the hallway there are five lamps out (not including the emergency lamps, which are supposed to be off). One of the two lamps in the wall-mounted "safety light" are out, and there's this 8ft tandem 4X F32T8 wrap light with all four lamps not working (two lamps light at one end but not the other and the other two lamps are dim; sounds more like a bad ballast than bad lamps but we'll see). And then one of the 6X F32T8 highbays has a lamp out.

I would buy a 12-pack of Sylvania 5000K F32T8s (since that's what Lowe's sells) for $29.98. I would replace all the lamps in the four troffers grouped together (except for the emergency lamps) and use one of the good GE SPX35s I remove to fix one of the lamps that out with the two other fixtures grouped together. So the four fixtures grouped together would have all 5000K lamps and the two other ones grouped together would remain 3500K. The "safety light" would get two 5000K lamps. The good 4100K lamp from the safety light would go into the highbay with a burnt out lamp. I'd put four removed but working SPX35 GEs into the 8ft wraparound light and see if good lamps work in it. If not, I'll try the original lamps in another fixture to see if they work. If the SPX35 lamps don't work in the wrap I'll ask if I can replace the ballast and if not, I'll just leave the fixture lampless. The 8ft wrap I speak of is suspended but hardwired.

I don't think he'd let me relamp the troffers since there's no way to shut off the power (they have those newer sockets with the rotating plastic collar though so it's perfectly safe to relamp with the power on, even in a troffer, since the lamps can't accidentially make contact with the socket contacts and shock the fixture (and me). He would probably let me fix the F40/RS and F32T8/PS safety lights though. Not sure about the 8ft wrap, since we never use it anyway (switch is in a hard-to-get-to place in between two cabinets) and not sure of the highbay since it's only one lamp and the other five still give plenty of light. Honestly, 30 bucks is a lot to spend on relamping fixtures that aren't even mine, but I'd rather see 5000K lamps in the troffers than a random mix of 3500K and 4100K. I'd buy 3500K lamps to match the existing ones but I like 5000K better lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 25, 2015, 03:50:30 PM
You're REALLY nice, buying lamps for them! I would only do that in trade for something vintage, I'd be purchasing those lamps for myself! I have mentioned I'd like to trade something for the Sears shoplight and Norelco F40CWs in the tool shop that belongs to my municipality, though.  (Like I said, I know one of the main maintenance guys, who actually turned me on to all the Mainlighter lamps I now have). 
Had a dream last night I was in a store I know in real life, only it was lit by 2XF96 fixtures with mostly GE Ecolux Chroma 50 and Deluxe Daylight 75w lamps! Oddly, the fixtures were all "randomly" placed, i.e not in rows or paralell to each other.  But I remember thinking that daylight and C50 full wattage slimlines was a pretty cool sight to see!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 25, 2015, 04:49:26 PM
LOL probably being too nice. I just hate seeing burned out tubes. The only thing I hate more than a bunch of burned out lamps is a bunch of mixed color temperatures. I don't really mind different color temperatures in different fixtures, but I don't like randomly placed lamps of different colors. Like if all the center lamps were daylight and the outers were cool white, I'd be cool with that but if they replace the lamps (they have replaced a few out lamps upstairs in the hallways but none downstairs) they will only replace the dead lamps and it'll be an ugly mix of cool white and 3500K. I don't mind cool white but I do get sick of it. The whole school is cool white. The 3500K lamps in the votech halls are a nice change and 5000K lamps would be even better.

I will definitely fix the T12 one since there's no chance of them fixing it. If anything they'll flag it to be converted to T8 by the district electrician. I'll also probably fix the safety light but I don't know about the highbay or 8ft wraparound. There's a very slim chance of me fixing the hallway troffers but I'll see what I can do. I went down into the laundry room today and took the parabolic door off my troffer and tried removing the lamps with the switch on. It's totally safe and easy too. The lamps can totally be changed with the power on with no chance of getting shocked (its got those new style sockets with the rotating black piece inside that allows "dummy-proof" relamping).

Even if I were to just spot-relamp the troffers, if I was to also relamp the other fixtures in the shop, I'd go through a case of 12 anyway and if I elimintate the troffers entirely and just fix the six lamps out in the shop, that's half a case, and if I buy three 2-packs, that's as much as a 12-pack so it makes more sense to go with the full case of 12, even though the case is Sylvania whereas the 2-packs are GEs. At least they wouldn't be Altos lol. I'd really love to relamp the troffers just because it gives me something to do and also I'd enjoy it but I don't see it happening. My construction teacher would have no issue letting me do it personally but they're technically not his fixtures to let me relamp. With the safety lights I could grab a step-stool and relamp them in less than 30 seconds but the troffers would take a ladder and a couple minutes a piece, and god forbid the principle, custodian, or a district entity comes down to talk to my teacher and sees a student on a ladder "messing" with the lights. It definitely wouldn't go over well if someone else were to find out. But he personally wouldn't care.

Interesting dream. I never remember my dreams. When I do I can't make any sense out of them. My dreams aren't concrete enough to explain lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 25, 2015, 07:30:32 PM
I notice this trend where 3500K T8s are replaced with 4100K ones on a spot-relamp basis.  I personally like seeing the cooler color temp but I guess it can be kind of annoying.
You would have hated the woodshop I work in sometimes until about 6 months ago. It was full of F40 fixtures, but with a random plethora of lamps ranging from Mainlighters to modern  GE-made store brand lamps, 3000K through 5000K, a few EOL lamps until I fixed them, etc.  First time I saw it I wasn't really into fluorescents yet, then when I saw it again there was no power hooked up at the time so I couldn't see them turn on but I saw several 34w GE Watt-Misers in places I was pretty sure they shouldn't have been, namely vintage shoplights with what I assumed to be vintage full-power ballasts.  Over the course of multiple visits I switched tubes around to even out color temps, wattages, and ballast compatibility as much as I could.  But a new generator with slightly messed up hertz/cycles made them all flicker annoyingly so they all eventually ended up in my hands, except for a couple.  I was, however, disappointed to find all the ones I have had had their ballasts replaced with crappy LPF residential ones, which did explain why they were always cold-natured (And part of why they were removed).
I kinda like seeing random lamps, it's kinda interesting to have stuff ranging from Mainlighters and Lifelines to Ecoluxes and Altos in varying colors, but I like uniform-ness too.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 25, 2015, 09:59:32 PM
Yeah back in the 90s and early 2000s T8 lamps were typically always 3500K but after the mid-2000s, they've made a return to 4100K. I think the big reason why a lot of T8 installations were 3500K was to make T8s look more appealing since they were a warmer, more pleasing light without looking like pink vomit and probably made it easier to distinguish T8 installs from T12 installs. A local Benny's Hardware was built around 2004 or 2005 and it's very oldschool looking. It's got a 2X4 drop ceiling with F96T8 strip lights in continuous rows. The lamps are 3500K. It's actually the only place I can think of that has F96T8s instead of F32T8s. And the lamps last MUCH longer than F32T8/IS. Sure, they have some EOL lamps here-and-there but I notice the lamps hold up better than 4ft T8s. Ironically, they sell F96T12 lamps (don't sell fixtures though; only crappy F32 and F40 plug-in plastic electronic shoplites) but use F96T8s.

I don't mind 4100K but I just find it boring after a while. I mean, aside from the votech hallways, the entire campus is 4100K and it's just boring. I think 5000K or even 6500K would really bring some life back into the hallway. If I do stupidly buy a case of F32T8s, they'll more than likely be 5000K. Still gotta see if my shop teacher will let me. I have my doubts but who knows...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 25, 2015, 10:35:10 PM
Buy 8000K lamps and see if anyone notices a hallway lit with THAT!
What F96T12 lamps are available where you are other than 75w Altos at HD? At smaller hardware stores can you buy something other than the boring 60w cool white ones?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 26, 2015, 04:57:01 PM
I don't know. I don't know about Home Depot since I don't shop there. At Lowe's, they carry Sylvania for all slimline and HO lamps. For F96T12 slimlines, Lowe's carries Sylvania 2-packs of the following: 60W CWX, 75W 3500K, 75W CWX, 75W Design 50 (90 CRI 5000K), and 75W daylight. For full cases of 8ft slimlines, they carry Sylvania 15-packs of the following: 60W CWX, 75W Design 50, and 75W daylight.

So not a bad variety. This is based on an online-search on the Lowe's site. Not sure if all are actually sold in-store.

LOL 8000K lamps are way to blue! I'd stick with 5000K probably. Or 3500K. Dunno if he'd even let me do it...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 26, 2015, 08:24:07 PM
The True-Value I shop at in Sitka only has "True Value" (GE) 60w lamps.   I'll buy some if I need but none for "fun" unless they're 75w.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 01, 2015, 09:17:19 PM
...And that cycling Advance T8 ballast finally quit it seems.  Now half of my kitchen is dark!
And of course it's still got the original lamps, typical of failed electronic ballasts.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 01, 2015, 10:26:32 PM
LOL It's dead? That sucks though. :( Do you have a replacement ballast for it? In the meantime, you could do a redneck fix and stick an incandescent socket inside the fixture with a CFL lol. I haven't had an electonic ballast fail on me yet, but I've seen plenty that have.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 02, 2015, 10:54:22 PM
And now it seems to be "back to life" and cycling on and off.  It's the second light on that switch so it's not too bad, though I suppose I could do that if I had so since I do not have a spare ballast.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 03, 2015, 03:59:20 PM
Ah so now it's a ZOMBIE BALLAST! :o LOL

BTW, In case you're wondering why my comments have been in all crazy fonts lately, I'm trying to figure out what fonts are in the forum's system. You cannoy change the font in gallery comments, but if you lick the redish "A" in the "Add BBC tags:" section on the forum "Post Reply" (what you use to type the reply to a post on the forum) you can choose what font you want. Here's a list of what I've found so far:

Verdana (Standard Forum Font)
Arial
Arial Narrow
Agency FB
Another Typewriter
Baskerville Oldface
Batang
Bebas  (McCann  Lighting  logo  font)
Berlin Sans FB
Bookman Old Style
Bradley Hand ITC
Britannic Bold
Broadway
Brush Script MT
Calibri
Candara
Castellar
Century
Century Gothic
Chiller
Comic Sans MS
Consolas
Cooper Black
Courier
Curlz MT
Dotum
DS-Digital
Elephant
Engravers MT
Felix Titiling
Forte
Fuschia   (UNIVERSAL THERM-O-MATIC)
Georgia
Gill Sans MT
Goudy Stout
Gulim
Haettenschweiler
Harlow Solid Italic
Harrington
Helvetica
Helvetica Narrow
High Tower Text
Impact
Imprint MT Shadow
Jokerman
Juice ITC
KaiTi
Kristen ITC
LilyUPC
Lucida Bright
Lucida Calligraphy
Lucida Console
Lucida Fax
Lucida Handwriting
Lucida Sans
Magneto
Markerfelt   (The Gallery... of Lights)
Marlboro   (As in the cigarette Company)
Milford
Milford Condensed
MS Gothic
Neon
OCR A Extended
Octin Vintage Free
Octin Sports Free
Old English Text MT
Onyx
Pirulen
Playbill
Poor Richard
Ravie
Rockwell
Rockwell Condensed
Script MT Bold
Segoe UI Semibold
Showcard Gothic
Signature
SimHei
Simplified Arabic Fixed
Snap ITC
Steelfish Rg
Stencil
Swis721 BT
Swis721 Cn BT
Swis721 Md BT
Tahoma
Tempus Sans ITC
Times New Roman
Trebuchet MS
Tw Cen MT
Tw Cen MT Condensed
Tw Cen MT Condensed Extra Bold
Viner Hand ITC


All these fonts are in Microsoft Word. I guess pretty much any font that comes standard in Word can be used in the forum too!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 03, 2015, 10:02:26 PM
Hmmm interesting, never knew that.
Was given a dead Sylvania 250w Metalarc with an exploded arctube, but managed to break it on the trip home.  Oh well, it didn't work anyway LOL.
And I'm using a 2005 Philips 400w MH as I type, trying it out as a space heater.  Not as efficient as I thought it'd be to be honest, but I thought of you when I plugged it in since you'd mentioned doing similar things with HIDs indoors.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 03, 2015, 10:34:59 PM
LOL yeah it works well inside an enclosed, insulated room on the smaller size. If you want a really great space heater, you need a  1500W incandescent lamp!  (https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/104/IN-1500CLMOG.html) This sun of a gun is as bright as a 400W MV and will heat up the room like an oven lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 03, 2015, 10:42:05 PM
But that's only as efficient as a normal bathroom/office heater!  Mine is now making the room a couple degrees warmer though.  Lights two other rooms too from light spill through doorways alone!
It's kinda chilly out though, so it does help!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 04, 2015, 06:11:24 PM
Oh yeah you didn't expect it to be a miracle-warmer did you? :P ;D Yeah an HID will warm up the room a few degrees, but imagine a bunch of them? When warehouse style buildings ditch their MHs for fluorescents they notice significant savings in the summer but not so much in the winter. In the summer, they save money on the AC because the fluorescents don't give off nearly as much heat so they get double-savings from the AC and also directly from using fluorescents. But in the winter there's not really noticable savings because any energy saved by the fluorescents is used by the heater, since the heating system has to do all the work instead of working in conjunction with the lighting. So not much money is saved in the winter by using fluorescents but surely in the summer. In my utopian shop, I want fluorescents and some HID highbays as well. The HIDs will be used in the winter along with the fluorescents and fluorescents alone will be used in the summer. This is taking into account that the fluorescents could be dimmer in the cold and also winter days are usually darker. HID alone usually isn't enough unless you have a lot of fixtures, as the light is very concentrated, so you'll get a lot of light in one confined area. So if the six HIDs were evenly spaced thoughout the shop, the fluorescents would still be needed. But I could group the six highbays together like what's done in older stores (I know a KMart that has fluorescents in the store but has MH lowbays over the registers. I always thought that was cool. The fluorescents are far more effective though. The MH lights are a lower wattage though, I think maybe 175W. The 175W MHs tend to drop a lot of lumens as they age.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 05, 2015, 11:16:34 PM
And fluorescents provide some instant light in the event of a power interruption!
I'd probably light my shop (If it wasn't what I'm in currently, in which case things would stay more or less as-is except some 75w lamps for the slimline fixture) with some 2XF96T12 or 2XF96T12/HO fixtures, and maybe a MV NEMA or something inside.  And of course something HID on the outside.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 06, 2015, 01:12:36 PM
OK, I mentioned some "mandogreens" (misinterpretations of songs) so I'll post some of my former ones here:
Living Color's "COACH of personality" Then I thought it was "CULTURE personality" then finally what it really is.
Van Halen's "Pretty Woman"-misunderstood that as "Pretty Wal-mart" for years.
I already mentioned the Pearl Jam- Jeremy one I had
And others I can't think of right now.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 06, 2015, 03:28:36 PM
Yeah that's true, didn't even think about the restrike time on HIDs...

LOL I've never messed up those (because I know the name of the song) but other lyrics I've messed up. Like "Enter Sandman". The line is "Sleep with one eye open" and I thought it was "Sleep with one high old bear" (as a little kid, it made sense I guess but looking back, it's really quite hilarious what I thought it was, since basically the words I thought were said say "Have sex with an elderly bear that's on drugs" lol. I'm sure there are others too. I misunderstood the "revved up like a deuce" in blinded by the light too, thinking it was "wrapped up like a ******" lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 06, 2015, 05:35:23 PM
I once thought Enter Sandman was "Sleep with you my own" or something like that.
And of course..."Wrapped up like a (expletive)", I had that too.  But no "A nutter butter in the night", I thought it was "Another RUMOR in the night"
I also used to see bad words in product names: CRAP Sun juice pouches, "Asslate" insurance (Instead of Allstate), that sort of thing...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 06, 2015, 06:58:33 PM
I thought it was "You know, the roamer in the night".

Well, I had to ditch Google Chrome, since I kept getting the stupid "Aw, Snap!" page and I tried everything to make it go away and nothing worked. Something similar happened with Internet Explorer, which is why I had to use Chrome in the first place. Now I have Firefox. Hopefully that works. It seems after a few years, every search engine starts giving me issues. I would literally have to refresh the page every few seconds and therefore would lose any data I entered. So stupid. >:( :8) Why can't there be a good search engine?!?!?!?! I've heard all good things about Firefox though so hopefully I'll have good results. It will take some time to get used to the new layout but hopefully it's worth it...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 06, 2015, 09:40:50 PM
I finally had to upgrade my home computer to Firefox recently since the versions of Chrome and Safari I have are outdated, though I still use Safari for this site. 
I personally joke that "Somebody needs to fire the fox" as I prefer Chrome and Safari but I guess I'll get used to it.

Since I'm using it every day now, I decided to dig out a reflector for my 400w highbay from under the house.  I gave it a basic cleaning with paper towels and Windex, then stuck it one.  And guess what? It doesn't quite fit! (too large).  So I have some sheetmetal fabrication do do I guess.  With it balanced on there it made it a little less offensive at floor level, but it's way too bright at halfway up the walls and on the ceiling.  (White walls don't help matters either!) With the shiny reflector it's a horrible glarebomb at standing height 8' or so away, it's hard to even walk by without shielding your eyes.  So I'm thinking painting the inside (and maybe even outside) of the reflector black.  I don't have any black spraypaint handy *At least I don't think so* so I think I'll use regular black oil-base, I think I have some.  That should cut the glare down a lot.  I might try a coated lamp too, I have one.  But for regular use I'd rather use the used-just-enough-to-not-be-NOS anymore 400w clear Philips from 2005 I have in there now.  I think once painted up it will make a nice uplight sitting in the corner, "cool" factor beating the crap out of any 300w halogen torchiere lamp! A dimmed-out 400w mercury lamp would be a nice feature, though I don't have any. 
I made a video and took some still videos, which I think I will post on my YouTube account.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 06, 2015, 10:37:18 PM
Well, interestingly, now that I have downloaded Firefox, Chrome is working just fine lol. So I'll have to see if it remains OK...

Ah interesting about the MH light. Yeah I bet it's glarey! Why not not stick it on a shelf above eye-level so that it's an indirect light? I'm sure plenty of light will bounce off the ceiling and illuminate the room fine.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 07, 2015, 02:32:45 PM
I was thinking sticking it in a corner but I need to heat-test it first.  Especially since two of the walls of the room it's in are faced in Tyvek...
I might try that, though! I've decided it's really cool having any HID indoors in a residential setting, especially a higher-wattage one!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 07, 2015, 04:27:51 PM
Ah yeah you don't want to melt the Tyvek. :-[ Maybe you can stick it upside-down on a shelf away from the wall. Yeah indoor HID is good for accent lighting but I've found that it's rather poor for general room lighting. You need a LOT of lights and a high mounting height for an evenly-lit room. I'd love to run MH indoors but to be honest, I'm too chicken to run any MH lights indoors for more than a few minutes I'm just too afraid of a lamp explosion. I'll stick with MV and HPS lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 07, 2015, 09:33:20 PM
Yeah and mine is a Type "R" lamp too...(NOT open-rated!).  I would never do this anywhere else besides my own house.  I was really chicken testing the three highbays and many lamps (many of them well-used) for the first time in at least a decade ago, though that was a few years ago when I wasn't as educated about HIDs anyway. 
I have enough 400w lamps to last my lifetime though, even though a couple of them are close enough to EOL they're "pinked out".  But I'll probably use them till they go bang. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 08, 2015, 12:50:55 AM
OK, remember awhile back we were saying how we never tire of watching HID lamps warm up and hot-restrike? Well since I'm using one indoors regularly now and it's just now not NOS anymore it's kinda interesting noting how it's being "broken in".  (It probably still has less than 20 hours on it total).  Well this 400w clear Philips MH starts off practically like an incandescent in color (electrodes) with a slight bluish tinge (mercury arc).  Shadows are particularly interesting: blue and orange depending where you look! (Same with the walls and ceiling).  Then you get these (sometimes seemingly violent) orange flashes for the next couple minutes as it transitions from incandescent to dim blue to a perfect imitation of "I am a clear mercury lamp" for at least 2 minutes, mixed in with random scary pink/purple/orange flashes (I assume halide salts being melted into the arc stream) then "Wow this is bright" and transitioning to a cooler-than-3500K-but-warmer-than-4100K white with good but not excellent CRI.  (Wood looks decent but not perfect, blues are kinda lacking, reds kinda meh).  (Going by items in the room, not by spectroscope or even a CD).
I keep meaning to time the warmup process but never have.  Ballast is a little loud for me but if music is blaring (Which around my house it usually is) it drowns it out.  If not, it's a good "White noise machine"!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 08, 2015, 09:43:23 AM
Type R has nothing to do with open or closed rated. Type R means that it's not the kind that will extinguish if the outer glass is broken. So if the outer envelope gets broken, the lamp will still operate, exposing the occupants to UV radiation. But it doesn't have anything to to with open or enclosed rated, as open-rated lamps are still Type R (since they don't make lamps that extinguish when the outer glass is broken anymore).

Ah interesting warm-up phase. It's been so long since I've lit my 250W MH or 320W PSMH that I don't remember the warm-up sequence. It's similar to what you described though, starting with a halogen color, then warming up slowly and then all of a sudden the brightness goes WAY up really fast and you think something is wrong for a second lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 08, 2015, 01:09:01 PM
Yeah I took a video of it but of course it didn't do it justice to what it is like in person.
Another thing I keep meaning to do is test my 4' PowerTwist lamp in subfreezing temperatures
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 08, 2015, 06:14:51 PM
Oh remember the discussion about misinterpreting songs? Well another one of my old ones just played..."Twilight Zone" by Golden Earring...at one point I thought it was "When the bullet hits the PHONE" instead of "Bone".  Of course, it makes no sense, but yeah...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 08, 2015, 11:06:41 PM
Speaking of lamps in the cold, my Philips Econ-o-watt F34T12s from 1997 (full mercury) seem to do rather well in the cold! I've had the garage lights on while shoveling snow (with the overhead door open) when it's 15-20 degrees out and the lamps start fine! They're flickery but still normal light output (well, at least relative to the preheater). The preheater has absolutely zero flicker and starts right up. Lamps are full brightness from what I can tell too!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 09, 2015, 09:48:41 PM
My 34w GE Watt-Misers and GE-Watt-Miser-in-Disguise Ace 34w lamps start dim and striate on LPF RS ballasts but they warm up in a few minutes to decent light output...better than 40w lamps on those ballasts actually.  My 1996 Sylvania F96T12/CW/SS lamps flicker wildly but are still acceptably bright.  In subfreezing temps though it likes to light only one lamp.
Inside, when it gets down to 50-ish in the house the most flicker-prone thing is a Universal Therm-O-Matic running a pair of well-used GE Chroma 50s...it's a "rectifying" like flicker that goes away quickly.  Same for the Sears shoplight with GE Plant & Aquarium lamps when it turns on (It's on a timer, growing plants).  Both of the latter are full power HPF RS ballasts.
And the GE Ecolux F32T8/SP35s in the kitchen, bathroom, and out in the garage with the slimline fixture are dim when cold but brighten quickly and don't flicker, being on electronic ballasts.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 10, 2015, 08:03:18 AM
Ah yeah in 20-degree temps the F34s in my turret never stop flickering. In fact, summertime is the only time I can turn them on and they start right up with no striations at all. The F34s are always notably dimmer and yellowish in comparison to F40s though.

My F30 undercabinet light mounted on the wall in the laundry room is rectifying again. >:( I guess I'll just grab a new lamp lol. I have four but they're all 70s vintage...

My 1973 Therm-O-Matic shop light's GE F40 C41 tubes flicker at the ends, I just noticed! The electrodes themselves flicker wildly but the rest of the lamp is steady! You don't notice it from the floor but when on a ladder just underneath the fixture, you notice a lot of flickering. Like a 30 or 60Hz flicker like a strobe light! Made me dizzy on  the ladder lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 10, 2015, 11:23:04 PM
On hot summer days in my closed-up shop/garage the slimline will warm all the way up.  Indoors upstairs it did okay (was there before the garage) but you could tell if it was chilly by how it would act...too hot, open a window and turn on the fan, and the lamps would start to shimmer!
You mean right at the ends? My well-used, substantially-end-banded pre-'92 Chroma 50s in one of the old troffers from my school with the Universal Therm-O-Matic ballast do that...it's pretty noticeable when looking at the lamps but looking at things lit by the light it's not noticeable...just the normal 60Hz flicker when you move your hand, etc...which is always exacerbated by /950s if they're used on a magnetic ballast.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 12, 2015, 08:48:52 PM
Ah yeah my 34W lamps are noticeable dimmer than the 40W lamps in the garage but they do stop flickering eventually as long as the overhead door to outside is shut. The garage has a heat/AC vent and is insulated so it could be climate-controlled, but we keep the vent shut since we don't use it as a workshop or anything (though I do work out there, but I like a little nip in there in the winter and in the summer I work outside). So we find it a waste to heat/cool the garage since it all gets lost whenever we open the overhead door to take off or come home in the car. Even with the vent shut, the garage is more stable than outside. It's probably 45-55 degrees in the garage in the winter and maybe 75-80 in there in the summer (but humidity is the same as outdoors so in the summer, it feels much "grosser" out there than in the AC-controlled house. Some of the AC air leaks through the vent but there's no return vent in the garage so the humidity isn't filtered out of the air in the garage, which isn't a big deal since we only use it to store the car most of the time.

Yeah, the electrodes are very dim and bluish. It looks as if the tube has electrode guards, though GEs don't have them. I wonder if maybe the starting circuit on the ballast is going. I don't recall if other brand tubes do that. I don't think so... Just smaller or thinner electrodes I guess. i think other LG members have seen the same thing with newer T12 GE tubes. I wonder if they're using T8 electrodes lol (assuming they're different).

BTW, the 90W Sylvania SuperSaver in the garage went out! The last original keyless incandescent in service died! I will stick in a new 100W lamp when I dig one out (I must have a spare somewhere and if not, I'll get a BT15 halogen or something lol) The garage is actually decently-lit without the incandescent, but it's unevenly lit since the fluorescents are both on one half of the garage. This is the only keyless socket to remain up long enough to outlast its lamp lol. The other three were replaced with duplex receptical plates and linear fluorescents before their lamps even died! (well the laundry room had a 3-way CFL with a worklight reflector for a while since the incandescent was too dim but the incandescent still worked when it was removed.) Funny thing is, the incandescents were originally enough light to see by but if I were to take down the fluorescents and stick the incandescents back, it would be WAY too dim lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 12, 2015, 10:33:56 PM
Actually, if that was my garage I'd be putting up another pair of linear fluorescents now since you have tons of fixtures, but that's just me.  It'd get a couple more up on the ceiling anyway and out of the way AND in use!
Although an incandescent is nice for SOME instant light, though if one of the fluorescents is rapid start (Which it was last I knew of anyway) that's not as much of an issue...but with preheat the delay could be annoying.
Can you get a pic of this? (If it will turn out).  Maybe the cathode heat windings in that ballast are going bad...that could explain it's erratic starting.  I forget...do vintage lamps (Mainlighters, Lifelines, Westy blackenders, etc) do that or do they fire right up?
There's only two original incandescents in my house in service from when I moved in, so they're from 2002 at the newest since the house was empty from 2002-2010.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 13, 2015, 07:07:20 AM
Sure, I want linear fluorescents too but my dad said no after all the trouble finding the studs to put the hooks into the ceiling for the existing two fluorescents lol.

Yeah that's the other thing, instant light. Yep one RS and one PH. I personally like mixing incandescent and fluorescent for whatever reason. Maybe I'm just used to seeing it...

I'll try to get a pic of it. I depends on the lamps. Some lamps start right up while others struggle.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 13, 2015, 03:04:17 PM
Yeah it can be a PITA to find joists behind drywall! I considered putting my 8ft slimline up on my bedroom ceiling but ditched that idea since even I didn't want to put holes in my precious craptastic drywall job!
I need to find a new plunger-side socket and 75 watt lamps, then I might more permanently install it somewhere sometime.  Current future of where all my fixtures will end up is unknown, it may be here, it may be someplace else (a different house, possibly in another state)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 13, 2015, 03:13:49 PM
Oh, and by the way, I had an interesting lighting-related dream last night.  First, I was going though an abandoned house that actually does exist near my school, and there was one of those 70s-80s style bathroom lights with a Westy bulb...which I remember trying to take. 
Then, later on, somehow my dad and I came across a bunch of daylight F14s and F15T12s somewhere and put them to use. I think there were some F6T5s too, I remember we put some small daylight fluorescents in the bathroom as nightlights, and there were some in the kitchen too (Of this same house I'm in in real life).  Then he installed (And in real life he doesn't care for CFLs, this explains why) a bunch of 100w and 60w GE Revel incandescents in places (Harder to do that now with the bans in real life) and I remember thinking I'd switch them out with 6500K CFLs, even though it was nicer having the incans.
Now, what's weird in real life is that my dad doesn't like /D fluorescent at all, even stuff like 5000K CFLs.  Haven't asked his opinion on /950s though, though I bet the response would be the same.  He can stand fluorescents, but if power use weren't an issue I'm sure he'd use incandescents instead.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 13, 2015, 05:24:13 PM
Yeah it wasn't very fun trying to figure out where the studs were. We ended up just using the bolt that holds the garage door opener to the ceiling as a reference, assuming that it was screwed directly into a joist, and then just marked 16" across the ceiling with a pencil. I bought extra-long hooks so that the threads would be fully embedded in the joist. You could probably suspend a car from those four hooks lol (well the ceiling would probably cave in but the hooks would still remain in the joists lol)

Well, I replaced the incandescent. I ended up using an NOS GE 100W soft white with the old school etch marked with a purple "30" (for 30 cents) from my grandparents' basement. It's a semi-vintage lamp but it's a soft white, not an inside-frost, so it wasn't a huge loss. Plus, i didn't have the original packaging for it and the etch is mostly worn off so it's not like it has any special "value" to it.

Lowes and Home Depot sell SL sockets but obviously that's not a lot of use to you since it's not like Home Depot is in Port Alexander lol. They don't sell HO sockets as far as I know, so you'd have to get them online if you ever needed them, unless you found some at a smaller hardware store.

You always have some cool lighting dreams! I typically don't dream about lighting. I dream about other personal/family things but my dreams are never concrete enough to explain to anyone (or even explain to myself lol). My dreams are almost like pictures with no dialog, so I almost have the guess what's going on in my own dreams. It's really bizarre. I guess I just haven't found the "key" to unlock my dreams lol.

My parents like the fluorescents in the garage, utility room, and laundry room but they wouldn't want linear fluorescents in the "living space". It's not so much the quality of the light, but the attractiveness of the fixtures. They just don't want big bulky fixtures all over the place lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 13, 2015, 09:22:35 PM
Yeah the nearest Home Depot is about 280 miles away, in Juneau.  Even Sitka's selection isn't that impressive lighting-wise.  (At True Value and SBS).
Okay, well, um, ahem, speaking of slimlines, I have some semi-exciting news (At least to me).  So I was talking with some friends and we got into a discussion about LED retrofit tubes.  I mentioned how the absolute WORST thing in cold is 60w energy saver F96T12 slimlines.  Anyway long story short, after a slimline-and-F96/HO-oriented discussion I was offered four F96 fixtures, a score to me as they're my favorite linear fluorescent.  I said I'd take them of course.  I remember when these came into town for said guy to use in a welding shop (They were junk store freebies apparently, Sitka has the most awesome junk/thrift store you've ever seen unless you count a ReStore which they don't have.  Anyway lamps never came and they ended up using 4' LED shoplights (Which actually are pretty decent).  So, I scored these four Metalux slimlines. 
I've brought two home so far (Had to pick them up myself...a "you remove and haul away" deal of course).  Ballast in the first one is a MagneTek/Universal Watt-Reducer with the EPACT logo.  Haven't really studied it super close yet.  Other one is a 90s Advance with the "Lightning bolt" logo.  (My other Lithonia has an Advance with the big "A" logo). This newer one has a lame 1.25a line current though.
Okay, so now let's test them...oddly the ballasts hum when power is applied but the lamps do nothing until they're unplugged then they flash dimly.  Then I tried the same lamps back in that other Lithonia one I have and they don't do anything there either.  I'd think if they lost vacuum from mishandling they wouldn't flash...any ideas why? I posted this on LG under "Slimline Troubleshooting" by me (ace100w120v) too if you want to look there too.
Nonetheless, time to go find some eight foot lamps now.  Might be awhile though.  I REALLY don't want to settle for 60w energy savers but if that's all Sitka's True Value has I might break down and buy a partial case. 
I'll keep you posted on the other two and how THEY go. 
I'm officially to the point of having more lights than I know what to do with but I still can't pass up freebie or really cheap deals! Worst case if I had to get rid of some stuff like 8 footers I'm sure I could pawn them off on someone else, or have friends store stuff for safekeeping!
BTW forgot how physically HUGE those slimline ballasts are! (Haven't laid eyes on one in person in awhile now).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 13, 2015, 11:16:04 PM
Another thing I thought I'd rant about here is this:  Remember the feeling of really wanting a certain lighting item back in the early days of your collecting, then later on having many of such a thing? For me it was 22w preheat circline screw-in adapters, wanted one really badly, then now I have six or seven of them! (And plenty of spare lamps too). 
Another big thing for me until almost a year ago was an 8ft slimline...well now I have five of the dang things!
And another crave was seeing a F40T12 lamp start up on preheat...it finally got so bad I built my own 2XF40 preheat shoplight, which I use daily.
And know that feeling of not scoring much for awhile, then having the motherload haul one day? That happened for me with a bunch of F40 and F20 fixtures one day...the garage was full of lights being cleaned and tested and the new uploads section on LG and GOL was full!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 14, 2015, 11:36:02 AM
Ah congrats on the slimlines! :D Hmm. I had a GE Bonusline ballast that did that (F40/RS). The ballast would hum and the lamps would flash when power is removed. The lamps were good and everything, so I determined the ballast must have been bad, so I snipped off the leads. I kept the ballast though and I still have it, since the label is in perfect shape. I will put it on display someday. I honestly would love a slimline and an HO shoplight but I don't have the space right now. I wouldn't know where to store them lol. That's why I haven't taken the 8ft tandem preheater from my great-aunt's house, though it is on my "list" of lights to replace/acquire.

I will be removing the rest of my great-aunt's T17 fixture probably over the summer or within the next two years or so. I told Joe that it's his if he ever comes down to Rhode Island. I wouldn't want to ship a T17 fixture. I'm blessed with two T17 fixtures that I'll essentially "inherit" but I just can't keep both going since I don't have enough lamps. :( I told Joe that he would have to find his own lamps though since I need the lamps from the fixture to keep my late-grandpa's going, but I will throw in starters and a lamp cord. My great-aunt's T17 is missing the endcaps and missing some of the latch hardware but is otherwise in decent shape. I've never tinkered with my late-grandpa's T17 so I don't know what condition it's in, but it looks to be in better shape than my great-aunt's. He only has it running one lamp too, so the ballast runs cooler too (though he only ran one lamp in it because two lamps is around 200W of power lol)

I've only seen a SL ballast once, on a shelf at a surplus store. It had short leads (like less than a foot long). I think the ballast looked around 10" long or so? Bigger than a RS for sure. T17 ballasts are HUGE. They're not incredibly long (well, some might be) but they're tall, like double the height of a SL ballast and maybe a little longer too. I've never seen an HO ballast in person before though. I've never opened up my grandpa's HO fixtures.

Ah yes! I wanted a street light for the longest time and now I have a bunch! Then I wanted a street light with a NEMA tag and I finally have two that have OEM NEMA tags (OVC and M-400A2) though I think I removed the M-400A2's NEMA tag in favor of a new 320W PSMH tag, since the ballast had been replaced while the light was in service. Also, I've added NEMA tags to some of my lights. My RMA NEMA head, my M-250A, my OV-15 TuDor FCO (though originally it had one but it fell off), and I added a NEMA tag to my M-400 split door. Then I had wanted specific lights and now I have them! I had always wanted a M-250A, since they're my all-time favorite cobraheads. I had actually never specifically wanted an OV-10IB, but now that I have one, I want to grab a bucket truck and take all the rest of them still in service lol. They're built like TANKS! (or deuce-and-a-halfs :P ;D )

As for fluorescents, I haven't specifically wanted anything except for the wrap lights in my elementary school and in my middle school. Those wraps are very cool. The ones in my elementary school are Lithonia Classmate wraps I think. So if they're still made when I get my own place, I might order a brand-new one from Lithonia. I'd order it with a programmed start T8 ballast and then stick in a T12RS ballast if I can fit one.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 14, 2015, 08:14:05 PM
Yeah they were honestly one of the most fun freebies I've encountered so far!
OK, so I brought the last two home today! Good news too.  All four work flawlessly it turns out. I think really cold 60 watt lamps were to blame...even in 45 degrees I had to stick them back in the first/original 80s Lithonia I have on that full power 80s Advance ballast and go run an errand (A watched pot never boils, watched slimlines never warm/start it seems!) Came back and they were flickering away.  Then wired up that Advance Mark III and guess what? It works! The 1.34a Universal Watt-Reducers run the lamps about the same.  Much brighter and less flicker than that 1.45a Advance...making me think it's capacitor is going bad or something.  Or maybe later, energy saver EPACT ballasts are optimized better for 60 watt lamps, thus running them better.  Anyway the Mark III is now living a new lease on life, indoors in a nice toasty warm room full of other lighting "junk", providing light as I type.  It's bright for 60w lamps on an energy saver ballast, hard to look at! I'm honestly really enjoying the soft hum and halophosphate cool white light, a sight that's getting rarer nowadays! Lights the room quite well leaned up against a wall, floor to ceiling light!
I saw a GE slimline ballast at the same awesome junk store in Sitka these Metalux slimlines likely came from! (I know the story behind these, they were found as junk store freebies and were going to go in someone's welding shop but that didn't happen, thus they ended up at my house).  She wanted $30 for it so I passed but I might get it now that I have five fixtures if it's still there (Hopefully marked down!).
These lights are kinda flimsy relatively speaking, I can bend the channel by hand easily (Or, rather, unbend damage caused by rough handling).  So they're no lighting deuce-and-a-half, and neither is that Lithonia I have.  Probably the sturdiest lights I have are those Sears shoplights.
I intend to get a case of lamps for these, and a couple new plunger sockets since one of them is broken (Though it does still function) as is one on the Lithonia slimline as well.  Not sure where they'll go yet...they're sitting in the attic now and that one in my office/junk room. I'll settle for 60w lamps if I have to since these ballasts seem to handle them better in the cold, though 75s are still on the list for if I get to a Home Depot or Lowes.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 15, 2015, 12:00:39 AM
I've since given the Mark III a MSW inverter test and I must say it works MUCH better than that other Advance.  Even at about 102v or whatever it puts out the slimline fired right up with the classic "Thump!" sound and hummed only slightly louder.  That Advance, when it lived indoors at first, would rapid-start on MSW (It was kinda weird seeing that in a slimline!) or only light one lamp. 
I've noticed HPF magnetic ballasts in general work better with low line voltage and/or inverter electricity.  Case in point, this 8' slimline, as well as the Bonusline-ballasted Sears shoplight, and also that Universal Therm-O-Matic.  LPF doesn't fare so well in this category...for instance the Universal trigger start LPF in my Lithonia 2XF20 strip (Little cousin to it's slimline brother) flickers horribly with every little MSW line voltage fluctuation.  A Universal LPF single lamp version of same hummed like crazy when I had it in regular service.  And every F40/F34 LPF shoplight and wraparound I have in use buzzes like crazy on MSW and if 40w lamps are used, they do that flicker thing. 
Preheat circline adapters also do the buzz/flicker thing quite a bit too.  That's the one redeeming quality of spiral CFLs, they don't do that! (Though some buzz the most high pitched annoying sound on MSW).
Another thing...some ballast buzz pitches I can't stand, others I don't mind at all.  I don't mind the deep HUUUUUUUMMMMMMM of my slimlines, but hate the annoying little izzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzziiiiiiiiiiizzzzz of any preheat choke, even on the grid! Same for the raspy sound of something like a MH highbay, or some F40/RS ballasts.
Also ever notice many ballasts have an "Oscillating" sound in their buzz? Huuuuuuummmmmmmmmmmmmuuuuuuuuuuummmmmmmmmmuuuuuuummm is the best way to describe it without making sound effects in person, or hearing it in person. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 15, 2015, 05:38:18 PM
Ah glad they work! Yeah magnetic ballasts can be finicky with starting it seems. Electronic ballasts just "force" the lamps to light no matter what. So she got the GE ballast for free and she wanted to sell it to you for $30? Who the hell does she think she is? If it didn't cost her anything I don't see why she's gotta charge you 30 bucks for it! Yeah a case of lamps isn't a bad idea for those lights, especially if you plan on putting them into regular service.

Yeah I've seen slimlines mimic an RS when starting up. Yep, HPF has the capacitor to regulate the outputs to keep the lamps going, even at lower line voltages but it's not necessarily good for the ballast. I don't know if lower line voltage or higher line  voltage is worse for the ballast, but I would guess higher is worse if I had to make a guess. Do you have any single-lamp 8ft fixtures? They seem rather uncommon. It would be like finding a 2X F15 or F14 fixture. They seem uncommon as well.

Yeah some ballast sounds I don't like. I don't really mind the IZZZZZZ sound of chokes too much. I don't mind a light buzz (no pun intended) but I can't stand a loud buzz no matter what it is. My NOS Cooper Metalux Turret has a nice buzz to it. In fact, I think it's louder than the Harmony House preheater next to it (from my grandpa's shop's bathroom). The Harmony House fixture has a LOT more hours on it too! I think the turret buzzes more in the cold though when the lamps strobe, since I don't really notice it much when the lamps "warm up".

I think I might know what you mean by fluctuations in the noise. That can be caused by a number of things. A slight change in line voltage might do it, or if the fixture shifts/settles ever-so-slightly a certain way, etc. I noticed in a room of buzzing ballasts, if you cock your head at certain angles, the noise you hear changes. As you move your head the noise changes. I notice this especially when in a large room lit by HIDs.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 15, 2015, 07:23:40 PM
Yeah but slimlines have pretty dang high OCV...I know my 1.45a Advance is 775v...not sure about my others, haven't studies them enough honestly.  An Advance electronic slimline ballast (same size as a 2XF32T8! I found at ReStore for my godfather to replace a failed magnetic one had only 600 OCV but he told me it lights right up, with no "thump" or striating of the (of course 60w) lamps in the unheated woodworking shop. 
I don't know but that place IS a little overpriced IMHO.  Granted, if you're trying to make a living you gotta mark stuff up! That place has gotten ripped off so many times (shoplifting that is).  There's the whole "Wall of shame" behind the cash register of pink order-to-leave-and-stay-away-from-premises restraining court orders! She had to invest in like 22 security cameras for that place! (Granted, the aisles are super narrow and part of me wonders "How does this place ever pass the fire marshall's inspection; name of the store is the Junk Trunk, which totally fits what it is!)  She told me most of the time when the cops show up and detain shoplifters they HAVE money in their pockets, it's just the "thrill" of ripping off a thrift store apparently.) But I might get it anyway since I DO plan to put these into regular use somewhere, someday.  And magnetic ballasts are only going to get harder to find, particularly for slimlines and F40s. 
No I don't.  I'd like to find one, though, although I prefer 2XF96s instead. 
I'm thinking of doing a compilation of ballast sounds and putting it on YouTube.  And yeah in a room full of buzzing ballasts turning your head changes the pitch of the sound, I thought I was the first to discover that LOL. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 16, 2015, 10:05:57 AM
Hmm yeah i don't know much of anything about slimlines. Just for the heck of it, a magnetic instant start F32T8 ballast would be rather cool just for the wow factor lol. Oh i see, so she's got a thrift store. I was thinking that she was just a neighbor or something.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 16, 2015, 02:32:17 PM
Yeah I wonder what the line current on it would be...probably 1.25a or so.  I asked Don on LG and he agrees with me that full power Advance I have probably has a bad cap.
I also posted a few pics of the slimlines on LG...they're already buried though on the homepage so you'll have to dig a little deeper.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 16, 2015, 06:35:37 PM
A magnetic instant start F32T8 ballast would probably be around 0.73 to 0.77 for two lamps. It would be cool if there was a single pin F32T8 for IS and a bi-pin F32T8 (like there is now) for programmed start.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 16, 2015, 06:42:33 PM
It would be so much simpler if anything 3' or over was slimline IMO.  Shorter lamps could be preheat, or electronic by now (As would be slimlines).  Never really understood the point of 4' and 2' slimlines honestly...maybe for instant light? If so then why are preheat and rapid start so common in those lengths then? (Just something I've thought about occasionally).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 16, 2015, 08:34:42 PM
Not sure about 2ft slimlines but I know the smaller HO lamps are commonly used for sign lights Perhaps slimlines are too in warmer climates.

For 4ft slimlines, the lamps use a couple less watts than PH or RS and the lamps are generally intended for industrial use, where the lights will not be frequently switched. RS would be a waste of energy since the cathode heating isn't necessary if the lamps are only switched once a day. I suppose SL also provides more reliable starting for industrial applications too. If the lamps get too grimy on a RS fixture, they might not start. And preheat is just an all-around bad idea for a huge industrial place with high ceilings. Who wants to replace all those starters! I think preheat is just as efficient as SL once the starters finish doing their thing, but I guess it just comes down to a maintenance issue. Probably cheaper to just stock lamps rather than lamps and starters, though the higher cost of slimline lamps probably balances out the cost of bi-pin lamps and starters. I don't know honestly lol. I personally think of slimlines and HOs under 6ft as more industrial light fixtures and I think of bi-pin lights as more residential.

I think RS and PH are more common in household fixtures because the lamps are cheaper and the fixtures are probably more frequently switched, so SL would have a shorter lifespan. Also, I don't think SL and HO ballasts come in NPF, just HPF (a NPF HO ballast would put a lot of strain on the grid lol).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 16, 2015, 09:07:29 PM
Yeah it's kinda weird seeing 8ft anything in residential use, but that's the case at my house!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 16, 2015, 10:23:10 PM
I know of a few homes that have 8ft in the basement (it's probably fairly common since Lowe's and Home Depot stock F96T12 SL and HO fixtures). I personally wouldn't want to deal with lamps that size. First of all, they'd never fit in a car and they'd never fit properly in a pick-up. Second, where the heck would I find room to store the box? lol. Then also, I can be a little clumsy and who knows, I might swing around and knock 2ft off a lamp while removing/installing it lol. Just an all-around PITA IMO. Though of course I'd like at least one F96T12 SL and one HO when I get older just for the sake of having them in the collection.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 17, 2015, 12:11:50 PM
Those lamps are a bit of a chore to move around for sure.  Especially in a cluttered garage like mine, or up/down stairs that turn 90 degrees partway up. As for transport, a youtube friend told me a story of having a case of newer Alto slimlines go flying off the bed of his pickup truck at freeway speed! (Hey, another reason for me to look into buying one of...those.)  Just gotta be SUPER careful! But yeah they're a bit of a pain.  I laughed reading "knocking 2' off a lamp". 
If you REALLY want a SL, I think you could still go to Home Depot or Lowes and buy a F96 striplight, albeit a cheap modern one with an electronic ballast.  I almost did that a couple years ago, just to have a slimline. If not, and you find an older (even 90s-00s like mine) one, GET IT! They seem hard to store, but they're not THAT bad just leaning up in the corner! (That's how I'm using one of mine).  But if your grandpa's shop sells yeah grab that HO there for sure! (And a SL at the same time).  You'll be glad you did 30 years from now LOL.
I'd probably install my 8ft slimlines in my garage when I get lamps, or in my storage loft.  If we move out of this house though (Either building a new, nicer one on the same lot, or moving someplace else) I'll probably take as many of my fixtures with me as I can, though for a new house I wouldn't want used fixtures honestly...everything electrical would be brand-new.  But I'd stick my used fixtures in an outbuilding or something...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 17, 2015, 02:52:37 PM
Yeah I've thought about buying a new slimline or HO fixture. The display models at Lowes and HD are actually magnetically-ballasted, as you can hear them buzzing but all the ones they sell are probably electronic. I wonder if there's the odd chance that there might be an old one in the back of the shelf that's got a magnetic ballast... A fixture from Lowes or Home Depot would be ultra-flimsy and overpriced IMO.

If he holds onto the shop long enough for me to get my own place (which probably won't happen) then I will grab one of the HOs but I don't have the room in my current house. I may be able to squeeze one 8ft fixture somewhere, but that fixture will be the 8ft F40 preheater from my great-aunt's house since it's from the 40s. Trust me, I'd LOVE that 8ft HO from my grandpa's house. And maybe if he says he's gonna sell it I'll binge and buy a cheap fixture to replace it with...

What's wrong with used fixtures in a new house? :P My house is new (well, 11 years old but we're the only ones to live in it and it still has almost all the original stuff (we've gotten a new kitchen sink, extended the deck, and replaced the water heater twice due to a faulty pressure valve that supplies the house with water, but everything else is original down to the appliances). My house is from 2003 and it's got fixtures from the 1940s in it! Nothing wrong with having used fixtures in a new house. Granted, I typically repaint my fixtures so they look nice and are more efficient, since the reflector will actually absorb more light than it reflects if it's not clean, and usually the dirt stains the white paint after years. Not too many fluorescents I've had that are used could slide by me without being repainted. Usually only smaller fixtures I'll keep original. But almost all my fixtures are used and I have no problem with using them in my house. The only complaint (if you can even call it that) is that my vintage fixtures are controlled by POS residential-grade Leviton switches instead of nice SNAP switches. I don't mind the cheapo residential switches for incandescent fixtures but for fluorescents, I like a nice heavy-duty switch. When I replace my grandpa's T17 fixture (sometime down the road) I'll probably replace the switch too so I can get my first snap switch.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 18, 2015, 12:14:21 AM
Something like a restored 1940s preheater in a laundry room would be OK but I wouldn't necessarily want as many old fluorescents in living spaces as I have now (They fit fine in my architectural train wreck of a house, but in something new with an actual "style" they wouldn't look right
Ideally if I had a place other than the one I'm in now it'd be a nice big lot (At LEAST an acre), with an older house with lots of charm, and an old barn I could fix up and stick all my lighting junk in, set up a woodworking shop or something, park one of...well...THOSE,..., and keep collecting all sorts of usable vintage items people throw out.  (I collect old windows, etc too).  Ideally it'd have a rural feel but be a 15 minute drive tops to the grocery store LOL. I know some places around Atascadero/Templeton like this.  (If my captain career in Alaska doesn't happen I'd move back to that area of CA).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on February 18, 2015, 05:10:52 PM
Ah I see what you mean. Yeah I wouldn't want to install a turret over my dining room table either... LOL I wouldn't mind using decorative fluorescents in living space though. Typically women don't like fluorescent lighting in living spaces though so if I ever get married I likely wouldn't have a fluorescent in my hallway lol. Depending on my house, I might like fluorescents in the kitchen but they'd be decorative (or at least not utilitarian like a shoplight, they'd have diffusers on them or something).

Yeah I want a nice large rural lot too and I want a workshop in the backyard too but I have some pretty extravagant plans for my workshop building lol. I also want street lights lining the perimeter of the lot on wood utility poles around 25-30ft tall, powered by an overhead triplex 240V feed and controlled by a large kill-switch in the garage. I actually have a nice 30A 240V (or 60A 120V) kill-switch that I can use too. 30A should be good enough. Maybe I'd need a higher amperage. The thing's only rated for two 30A fuses though (one for each 120V leg of the 240V circuit).

And I totally agree about wanting to be near everything yet want to be on a rural lot. I would like to be surrounded by woods, but not isolated in the middle of a forest lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 18, 2015, 08:50:42 PM
A turret over something like a wood cookstove would be acceptable though, especially in this super funky house I'm currently in.  I like the "Illuminated drop ceiling" concept in a lot of 70s-80s kitchens (The house I grew up in in Atascadero was built in 1988 and had one).  I'd use something other than LPF shoplights behind the panels though...probably T8s if it was new construction or HPF F40/RS if it was a remodel. 
I'd want my shop in the FRONT actually or off to the side.  But the house being closer to the road is perfect, leaving a nice big backyard.  I might stick up some streetlights if I had any.  My plans for a shop wouldn't be so extravagant, I'd be fine with fixing up an old barn LOL. 
My godparents' place is like 2.5 acres and you can SEE neighbors but it's not that bad and a mile away you can see the Home Depot sign for example, although you can hear freeway traffic all day and all night LOL.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 18, 2015, 10:28:13 PM
Ah i don't have a wood cook stove. I personally don't like illuminated drop ceilings. I like the concept, but drop ceilings are too utilitarian for my tastes. I want a drywall ceiling in all my "living spaces". Yeah I want a house closer to the road with a bigger backyard.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 18, 2015, 11:14:03 PM
I really want a wood cookstove.  I have a diesel (oil) one out of my honorary grandfather's old house that we might put in but haven't yet...so it sits in the garage under a tarp and is one more thing to trip over or whack F96T12 lamps against moving them around. It was also a PITA to move across town!
I want a little bit of a front yard, but not huge.  And like I said, a barn or shop.  Preferably large enough to possibly park one of...those things.  Or someplace behind where it won't annoy neighbors (If there are any, ideally not).
There's a place here I kinda have my eyes on that's totally in the sticks that I like.  Almost TOO far out actually.  And gets no sun during the winter months thanks to a mountain in the way.  But it kinda strikes my fancy. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 19, 2015, 03:53:23 PM
Ah sounds like an interesting place. Kinda cool how the sun never makes it over the mountain in the winter. I want a nice private lot of land, but my idea of rural is probably different from yours. I wouldn't want to be isolated from the mainland and want the stores and stuff within a short drive but I want a private yard with backyard totally surrounded by woods. Not necessarily a forest, but something to block my yard from view. I don't want people seeing my lights or nosy neighbors peering out their windows at family gatherings or what not. I don't like to feel like I'm being watched. My current house is pretty much in the direct center of the neighborhood, with houses on all sides, and I don't really like that. I like the security of living in a suburban neighborhood but the houses are fairly close (but not on top of each other. The houses I saw in Ontario were VERY close together. They were nice upscale homes but clumped together like an urban neighborhood. Ontario is pretty interesting since there's a couple blocks of houses that are right on top of each other and then there's literally 100 square miles of NOTHING! Just kinda funny how it's all set up).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 19, 2015, 08:47:14 PM
Actually that is the one feature I WOULDN'T like! I'd be somewhere else during that time of year LOL. 
I like the privacy aspect too, in a small town like mine where litterally everyone knows everyone it's like "I saw your lights were on until 3AM this morning".  I was joking with someone yesterday though that I could die in my own house and still not be discovered for weeks though (If it weren't for nosy neighbors)
My current house isn't BAD, I can sorta several neighbors through trees but it's not like I see in their bathroom window LOL.  It's not a bad setting overall; remember the pic of the Metalux slimline? Did you notice the huge beach in front of my house? It's almost waterfront, I have a road in front of my house but it's quiet (No busy 4 laner here) and I have neighbors on the sides but my back (opposite the beach) borders Tongass National Forest! (Yes, I can walk out my back door, walk a couple hundred feet and technically be in wilderness).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 19, 2015, 10:06:42 PM
LOL I wouldn't want that either but it's just cool that it happens.

See, I'm torn between the safety and security of friendly neighbors and having neighbors that mind their own business. I want a comfy medium I guess.

Ah so you have a waterfront/national park property, eh? I have neighbors on all sides lol. I'm about one mile west of an interstate but I don't hear the traffic from it, which is nice.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 19, 2015, 10:53:59 PM
Yeah it's pretty unique, even though it's not my ideal residency.  My neighbors are friendly enough.  No HOA either here...thankfully! Besides, they'd balk at the exterior appearance of my house and yard anyway. 
I hear ocean surf and a diesel generator going 24/7 about 1/4 of a mile away for the phone and Internet service here.  And the occasional outboard motor or chainsaw off in the distance.  BUT, I'm right under the flightpath for circling floatplanes...being buzzed awake at 7AM during the summer months, or by obnoxious ravens.
The house in Atascadero was about a mile from Highway 101, and you could hear it all night.  Worse than that though was that I was less than a block directly above the high school...we had the "Drummer bummers" (band practice) as a daytime soundtrack, or other events.  And lots of broadie-spinning sound effects from the parking lot, or gangster rap blaring, or homecoming football games.  THAT feature of that place I don't miss. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 20, 2015, 10:25:40 AM
Ah yeah my neighborhood is quiet enough. In the summer you hear the landscape services going at the crack of dawn (well, starting at 7AM, since there's a city ordinance preventing people from doing loud stuff outdoors before 7AM. Those stupid leaf blowers and loud lawn mowers are perhaps the most annoying thing on the planet. I want to grab one of those leaf blowers and shove it up up there you-know-whats. :8) There's a flight path over my house, so we hear airplanes but they're not low to the ground or anything so they don't bother us at all.

I don't know what an HOA is (i know it stands for homeowner's association since I looked it up online just now, but I was rather confused by the definition Wikipedia gives for it. Sounds like a condo complex? ??? )
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 20, 2015, 02:06:39 PM
Yeah those gas-powered leafblowers are really loud...I can think of more annoying sounds though, especially to wake up to.  What I hate waking up to is the sound of any phone ringing (Even setting an alarm on a cell phone counts).  I'd much rather wake up to music or just naturally. 
Another loud outdoor appliance where I live is the gas-powered chainsaw.  You'll hear those occasionally and with the natural accoustics of my neighborhood it's echoed and amplified like crazy.  But since it's normally so quiet even the slightest sound carries a long way. 
Here someone recently got a mini excavator (That one I ran once) and so we had the "backup sound" (beep beep  beep) in the distance for a couple months.  And I think someone has a Klaxon or something...sounds kinda like a police siren. 
And late this summer (August-September) somebody was popping off M-80s every night...BOOOM! Especially when sleeping with the window open, and then the dog goes berserk (She's gun-shy and it's totally my fault but that's another story)
A few years ago, I was up at someone's house (Which we actually lived in for 2 winters before moving into this one we're in now, fun fact).  It's surrounded by trees but it's not that far away from "Downtown" LOL.  At that point someone had a propane truck (Actually, a Deuce!) and those things have these turbos that whistle...like...it's hard to explain but you can hear it half a mile away and I guess I'd liken it to the high-pitched whine/buzz of an high-wattage incandescent lamp on a TRIAC dimmer.  We could NOT figure out WHAT it was for the life of us...except now I know 3-4 years later EXACTLY what it is!
Also in Atascadero you could hear them moving the high school's football field...same thing as your situation! Or the cheerleaders.
An HOA is...well...how do I explain this? A neighborhood that "wants" to be asthetically pleasing.  (IE no non-running vehicles parked on your front lawn for 20 years, an exterior finish on your house other than tar paper, that sort of thing.  But I've heard of really extreme cases of them going around with a ruler measuring how tall your grass is, complaining about the height of your flagpole, etc.  Best one I've ever heard though was someone who told me a friend was living in one in Arizona where of course it's hot.  So since their friend was from Alaska they put a window A/C unit in the guest bedroom or whatever...anyway the HOA went nuts because it was a brown house with a white window A/C unit!
I personally sure wouldn't want to live in one of those, they'd freak at stuff like cobraheads outside, a Deuce parked in the driveway, and the fact I'm the type that always has "junk" in my yard.  Another reason for a semi-rural place!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 21, 2015, 08:07:48 PM
Do you have an example of an HOA property? There are developments here with high-end homes but I don't know if they're HOA properties. Their developed by private contractors from what I understand. It sounds like a terrible place to live. Why would anyone want to live in a house that's part of a HOA?

BTW, I went to the ReStore today! I didn't get much, but I did get a few interesting things. Three LED lamps (two Cree and one Philips). The Crees were 25 cents each and the Philips was free, since I stuck it in a fixture (fixture was $5). I also got a F20T12 trigger start vanity light with a chrome finish and a Sylvania Designer Soft White lamp and a 1972 Universal NPF ballast (man I swear over half the fluorescent ballasts in my collection are Universal ballasts! They're good quality so I'm not complaining...). Anyway, the F20T12 vanity fixture is missing the diffuser so I'll have to keep and eye out for one... And then I got an incandescent fixture with a glass shade that looks like a glass highbay refractor. So I modded by McCann Lighting 35W HPS mini highbay to use the glass lens instead of the metal reflector. I will use the metal reflector for another project...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 21, 2015, 08:45:56 PM
Hard to explain but think cookie-cutter neighborhoods with hired gardeners, etc.
Nice score! How's the /DSW compared to incandescent?
Those Universal ballasts are great! I have the 2-lamp version of such going as I type.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 21, 2015, 11:42:25 PM
Ah i don't know of any neighborhoods that have landscapers take care of the whole thing. The only things like that here are condo complexes or apartment complexes.

Actually, it looks like any ordinary halophosphate /WW lamp, right down to the vomit pink color lol. I will post pics of my stuff on the LG tomorrow. I do have the LEDs posted now... The vanity is missing the diffuser so I had emailed a plastics company to see if they stock the diffuser. Yeah the ballast had the white label with blue (or is it black...) lettering.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 22, 2015, 03:25:32 PM
Yeah I don't care for /WW much for that reason, but since all my WWs are vintage they're worth keeping. 
Sounds like a ballast I have.
One of these days you might find a nice 3 or 4 lamp preheat shoplight at ReStore or something!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 22, 2015, 04:08:51 PM
LOL I swear someone takes all the interesting lights. All the lights that I keep assembled en up being bought but when I pull and endcap off a light or take off a socket, the fixture stays there. The vanity light was probably only still there because it was hidden. There must be another fluorescent collector in the area that I don't know about. It sucks trying to compete with someone else for lights there since I can't get there often, so anything interesting probably gets bought before I can even see it. I remember there always used to be a TON of fluorescents there, now there's barely ever anything.

BTW, I posted pictures on the LG.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 22, 2015, 08:12:56 PM
That's the opposite of the ReStore in Paso Robles, nothing seems to move...grated I've been there only twice LOL.
If I go to that one ever again it'll be looking for a 250w HPS lamp for that M-400A most likely but of course I'd buy anything "really" interesting.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 22, 2015, 08:44:29 PM
Hey Mike, I'm testing my 80s Universal trigger start single lamp LPF 14/15/20 ballast to see how hot it gets.  After 5 minutes, still stone cold.  Lamp used is an August 1997 Philips F20T12/WW, in case you're wondering.
I'll also try it on the modified sine wave inverter and see if it runs hotter or cooler on that than "normal" power.  And I'll try to remember to try the other (70s) one too for you as well. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 22, 2015, 10:25:13 PM
Yeah mine wasn't hot after five minutes either but slowly it kept building up heat. I put my hand on it after about 2 and a half hours and it was pretty hot. I could touch it for almost a second before it hurt. I felt the back of the fixture where the ballast was mounted against and it was pretty darn hot too!

Wait, how do you have access to non-MSW electricity? I thought being off grid all your electricity was MSW? BTW, how do you get gas/diesel for your generators? Do you have a boat come in once a week and everyone fills up or do you have a "gas station" where you can fill up containers or something else? Because I know here, when we need gas for the lawn mower or whatever, we bring the container to the gas station and just fill it up when we fill up the car. But with no cars you wouldn't have a gas station (or at least not a typical one) and if you had a pump you'd need electricity. A gas pump powered by a gas generator is a funny thought lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 22, 2015, 10:59:33 PM
After about an hour and a half it was warm enough touching it for more than a few seconds hurt.  (And operating in free air, channel cover removed).
Because I have a generator with pretty clean output, more or less indistinguishable from the grid's power LOL.  (Although I also have one with pretty "dirty" output too where things act different for sure).
Until last month we had a boat come in weekly (twice weekly during the summer; this place is really a summer town) with fuel, etc. from Sitka.  But after it ran aground and sank (Although it was salvaged) we haven't had that service.  People also bring their own, though, from places like Sitka, so it's not like we're totally isolated now. 
They almost put in a fuel station of sorts here (They built a concrete containment thing) but there were some permit issues and a couple community members started squawking so that's as far as that went LOL.
I have, however, gone to a normal car gas station (In fact one you've seen on Streetview!) with a pair of 5 gallon jugs on a hand truck to fill them up, then rolling them back practically half a mile through the harbor/marina system back to the boat, tied up in a spot without shore power, for a generator. 
I do have an electric fuel pump, though...much easier than a hand pump for transferring in/out of 55 gallon drums, etc.  It's pumped fuel while running on a gas or diesel generator LOL.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 23, 2015, 07:12:04 PM
Yeah sounds about the same as mine. Mine also had the ballast cover removed at the time and was upside-down on a table (so the lamp was above the ballast). Unfortunately, the company I inquired to does not stock diffusers for this light so I'm stuck with a diffuser-less light. The light is still cool but if I were to use it as a bathroom vanity, I'd want a diffuser.

Ah I see. How large is your town/village/settlement? Is it just a few houses and a school? Is the school ran off a generator as well? Since you don't have vehicles on the island, do you just have walking paths for "streets"? It would be cool if you had installed lights facing the street on your property (even if they were just post lights with 13 or 23W CFLs). Pardon my ignorance but I'm just used to typical towns on-grid with vehicles and everything so I don't really know anything about your area. Interesting to learn about though. I see on Bing Maps that you have a post office. Do you live near the post office or on the opposite side of the water? It's interesting how there's two halves of the town on either side of the water but no marked roads/trails connecting them. Do you ever feel lonely out there? I would feel isolated from everything out there.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 23, 2015, 08:40:36 PM
Official population of a whopping 45 people! (Smaller than it used to be, there was 2000+ people here in the 1920s).  No streetlights, though it would be nice.  And yeah, we have a post office, many communities like this do not.  I'm opposite of the post office, and also the school; I cross over daily, sometimes multiple times each day.
I feel a little lonely for sure, it has it's advantages and disadvantages for sure.  It was pretty dang cool to move here but it has gotten kinda old starting in the spring of 2013. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 23, 2015, 10:17:09 PM
Wow just 45? Do you pay taxes and have a mayor and all the things that a "regular" community has? Or is it kinda like every man for himself? I know you said you pay a small water tax (do you have a sewer or septic? I'm imagine a boat comes once or twice a year and pumps the public sewer or everyone's septic tanks?) Wow it's hard to believe 2000 people would fit there! Ah so you're on the "rural" side of town lol. Do you just take a rowboat across to the eastern side with the post office and docks or do you take a motor boat? It doesn't look like too wide of a bay from Google Earth but i know it can be deceiving. It looks like most of that  land is just woods. Are there any marked trails and stuff you can go walking through in the woods or it it a heavily forested area that only hunters go in?

Yeah I suppose everything has its pros and cons. It would be a nice place to spend a week's vacation IMO but I honestly couldn't take the isolation. Mainly the lack of electricity and the fact that you really can't go anywhere except by boat. I don't mind being in a small boat as long as I can see the coast but once there's water on all sides I start freaking out lol. I've never actually been on a long "journey" on a boat. Just been on tour cruises. The most recent was in Ontario. Really nice tour of the islands and the land. I also hiked up a mountain in Canada too (though it was a pretty short mountain; I think most people probably could do it, though I sure was pooped afterwards!) And I also went on a little scenic hike with these caves inside a mountain. It was pretty cool. It wasn't the wild though, it was part of a place. I think it was called the Scenic Caves or something like that.

I had a lot of fun in Canada, but even that seemed isolated. It was a bustling town surrounded by nothing else but small towns. I like the rural area but I like the security of only being a stone's throw from the major city for whatever reason. Up there everyone was so friendly too. I've never met such friendly people and had never had better hospitality than I did at the resort I stayed at. I would love to go back someday. I think a lot of the reason why I felt isolated up there is because I was in a different country in unfamiliar surroundings. The road signs are different, people's accents are different (though not really a whole lot different) and everything just seems so different even though it's really not. I really loved going there though and want to go back someday.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 23, 2015, 11:21:23 PM
Yeah every year the official population declines!
I'm on a septic.  No way to pump it here, though, so I'm really careful about what gets flushed.  (There's a little trash can in my bathroom for used TP).  That's typical around here.  Yeah I'm on the "rural" side.  It's almost a well-kept secret.  This side of town wasn't really even developed until 1971 when the BLM (Bureau of Land Management) homesteading act went through, as an attempt to revitalize the town (It was pretty much a ghost town from WWII until then).  Basically you went and staked your claim, then lived there at least seasonally I think for 5 years and it was yours. Also known as the "Hippie Land Giveaway".  My house is one of the hippie land giveaway homestead houses, and it shows.  (That's why there's so many weird things and add-ons, it's a homestead house!).  It has character though, although it needs either a major rennovation or to meet the bucket and thumb of an excavator LOL...there's some serious issues.  My house isn't the only one like this either: there's a paradox here that houses on what you'd call the "rural" side are never totally finished...especially never getting actual siding on the outside. 
Some notable unique houses in my neighborhood: One is this driftwood log cabin for a kitchen/etc, then turn around and you see modern 90s Sheetrock and vinyl windows LOL.  Another one is the one a friend has with the outward-tipping walls! (Like an A-frame in reverse).  That one's stick-built, though it's an octagon with a "normal" addition.  Another is out-tipping but it's a "log cabin".  So yeah without building codes you get some unusual designs! My house has a lot of driftwood logs incorporated as structural members, though it's not a log cabin by any means.  It looks normal but unfinished from the front/"street" side, though in reality it's only a shop/garage where a kitchen/living room would be and a storage room full of fluorescents where a master suite should be.  (They were evidently doing a duplex or tearing the back off).  Then you walk back into a little tiny kitchen with nothing on an exterior wall since the original part of the house is added on to on multuple sides.  My living room is especially bizarre; a "shedding gable" roof.  Looks like something pulled from a 1970s Sunset home improvement reference book for sure.  I have pics of it in it's day 30+ years ago, it was pretty cool when it still had skylights. 
We don't pay property taxes, though I think that is going to chance, and soon.  The town is sorta underfunded, and we're not in an organized borough. (Alaska doesn't have counties). We used to be in Sitka's borough until the 1970s when we seceded, since we were being taxed, yet get no services (electric power, etc) from them.  We don't want to be sucked into someone else's borough so if we tax ourselves as a town we might be able to sustain ourselves.  Also it might create a resurgence for the (dying) town since so many people own property here but don't live here...since it's not costing them a dime they hold onto it forever it seems.  If we had taxes people would likely be more inclined to sell, which would create movement in town.
The other side (school, post office, etc) was crowded with 2000+ people in the 1920s and 1930s, though not much remains relatively speaking.  There are several cool old 1920s-1930s houses still in existence on that side though, whereas everything on my "side" is homesteaded. (hence unique 1970s houses). 
I kayak or canoe across, or drive a skiff with a gas-powered outboard motor. 
There's some "trails" but it's pretty wooded for the most part. 
You might get a kick out of this place if you saw it in person, though I can totally understand not wanting to live here.  I've kinda developed a "Been there, done that" mentality about living here honestly...it was pretty cool for about 5 years but I've kinda seen it all as of now. 
I've always been half here, half California though, all my life.  I came here first as a toddler in 1999. I was concieved in Seattle, my parents found out they were expecting in Sitka, and I was born in California, and am a 5th generation native Californian with Alaska residency at this point. Like I said I've entertained the thought of moving back to that area if my captain's carreer here doesn't work out.  (I may or may not end up with a 72' wood boat). 
If I ever make it back east, we've got to meet up! (We just have so much in common it seems).  I plan to finish college in Alaska, then maybe travel for a year.  Maybe a cross-country road trip in a Deuce at that point.  If I did I'd bring some light goodies...like a decently-made slimline.
The area of California I'm in was pretty rural but it's quickly becoming the land of shopping centers and cookie-cutter housing developments.  There was/is a huge controversy in Atascadero about putting in a SuperCenter WalMart and as one article put it, "It would no longer be a truly rural community".  Ha! I live in something truly "rural" LOL. (National forest 200 feet from where I'm typing).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 24, 2015, 05:20:30 PM
Oh so you have a septic but it can't be pumped? We get our septic pumped once a year. Eventually the tank is going to fill up. The water drains out into the leeching field but the solid stuff doesn't go anywhere. It might break down a little over time but I would think that it end up hurting the septic tank system if the "stuff" inside sits around too long over time.

That's another thing: do you guys have some sort of "trash boat" that comes and hauls the garbage and recyclables off the island? I have a skylight in my bathroom since it's totally enclosed in the center of the house (no outside walls). My parent's en suite bathroom has a window facing the backyard though. I prefer a skylight in the bathroom over a conventional window since there's more privacy and I like the skylight over no window at all since we don't need to use the light in the bathroom during the day since the skylight lights up the bathroom well. Because the bathroom has a normal-height ceiling, there's a "tunnel" from the ceiling to the roof/skylight that's several feet long.

Ah so people own property and don't even use it? I would think that maybe there would be a law that if your property is vacant for X number of years it gets turned over to the municipality and essentially "foreclosed". The loophole around that if you really didn't want to live there would be to rent it out. I think that's a fair law. But taxing is also a good alternative. Perhaps if enough tax dollars are raised, a small electrical "grid" can be built to power the town. That would be pretty cool. Nowadays, being off-grid is a big turn-off for people since most people (including myself) wouldn't want to constantly run a generator or use flashlights. Of course, a lot of that probably has to do with me liking lights and wanting to have the luxury of turning them on whenever I please lol.

Oh wow you've been all around lol. Did your parents enjoy traveling or did they "have their reasons" for bouncing between multiple places? I was born in Warwick, RI and have lived Cranston all my life. I lived in the heart of Cranston when I was really little, right near my grandma/aunt/late-grandpa's house. When I was four we had temporarily moved into one of my grandpa's (mom's dad and step-mom) apartment suites next door to his house in Pawtucket, RI. A very small three-room apartment (living room, kitchen/dining room, and bedroom. And a bathroom) with all rooms being small. Most of the living room was filled with boxes of stuff we had. Other stuff was in a storage facility but we didn't have everything in storage since we needed some stuff. It was mostly clothes and appliances. There's a closet in the bedroom in the apartment but it was around the size of my closet in my current bedroom (not a luxurious walk-in closet) and there was no way three people's clothes could all fit in there. I spend most of the time at my other grandparents' house (mom's mom and step-dad; my grandpa who scraps), also in Pawtucket; actually just around the corner. During one of those nights that I was at my mom's mom's and step-dad's house my brother was made lol. He was born after we moved into our current house on the western side of Cranston. We still live in the suburb, but western Cranston is more "upscale" than eastern Cranston (I don't mean to sound snobby but that's the only way to put it lol) and it's the better half of Cranston.

Anyway, the construction of the new house was delayed because our contractor (who lives behind us) was unable to work on the house. He did all the insulation and drywall in my house, since that's his "major" in construction. I think he may have also done the tiles too. The house's construction was initially started in 2001, which is the age of our house in the record books, but it wasn't finished until late spring in 2003. Looking at the stamps on the stuff in my laundry room and utility room, the plywood subfloor is dated to 2001, the romex is dated to 2002, furnace is dated to 2001 or 2002, the alarm system box is dated 2003, and the studs are 2001 like the subfloor. The light fixtures in the closets upstairs have ballasts from January 2003 (well mine does; I assume all three have the same ballasts in them since they're all the same fixture). So the house dates from 2001-2003. The city records say 2001 but we consider 2003 to be the "birth" of the house since that's when it was completed. When we refer to how old the house is, we say its age in reference to 2003 (so our house is 12 years old this year, same age my brother will be in October).


Ah you plan to do a cross-country travel? That sounds pretty cool. I don't have any big plans to leave the northeast, or New England in general. If I had a ranch house with a full basement that was unfinished I'd source out a slimline and/or an HO in a heartbeat but for now I'm not intentionally looking for them. If one gets dumped on my lap I won't refuse it though. Make sure you bring the M-400 along for the trip if you still don't want it when the time comes. I'll be sure to trade a fluorescent or something else from the collection for it. 8)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 24, 2015, 09:49:53 PM
LOL ever heard of this really common stuff you buy at any hardware store or even probably Walmart called RidX that you flush down the toilet once a year? Gotta religiously use that but have never had septic issues EXCEPT when just prior to moving in to the unlived-in-for-8-years house the leech field (which ran along the "driveway") got run over a few dozen times by a 20 ton excavator carrying bundles of lumber for the neighbors' house.  THEN, months later, when we/he actually got around trying to fix the leaking leech field (snow would melt in that spot really fast) and rerouting it across the lawn he dug up the phone line and water main.  How about coming home in a flustered mood, discovering your driveway is all torn up, then going in the house to rinse out an ice cream container then turning the faucet knob and getting "gurgle" and that's it.  We taped the phone line back together (with indoor phone cord too) and it worked fine for a couple months until it finally shorted out, then were without a phone for two months.  (I got really good at IM during that time)
As for trash disposal...hate to admit it, but I have to burn my trash.  I hate doing it though, especially plastic but you gotta do what you gotta do LOL.  We recycle aluminum soda/beer cans here and send them in to Sitka.  Used to do tin and some plastic but lack of interest stopped that.  I do save up stuff like spent F40 lamps to send in eventually though.
My bathroom has two 3X3-ish windows (single pane old wood ones with the glass that "rattles") but most of the light is blocked out by a porch roof...also I should add the bathroom windows are right next to the front door and aren't privacy glass! So we put some clear plastic up over the closest one for some privacy.
I think property taxes take care of the "vacant" issue since a law like that would be ridiculous IMO.
That, and one of our docks is literally falling apart. I'd like to see city power but it's not likely.  From what I'm told (being a relatively new resident at only going on 6 years full time but having visited before) feaseability studies have been done and the most likely alternative is a huge diesel generator powering the entire town.  Not really feaseable given the amount it would take to install, fuel, and maintain such a system, and how few households would hook on to it (Although I sure would!).  Also because of that KWH rate would probably be high...I know a similar but slightly larger community that used to have such a system (It's now on the grid but it wasn't yet in April 2014 when I went there) and some people I know lived in an all-electic mobile home (electric heat, hot water, range, clothes dryer, you name it) and their bill was 400-some dollars a month...ridiculous!
I don't mind making my own power and would like to pursue alternative energy (solar, wind, and hydro) but if the (even diesel powered) grid came through I'd hook right on unless I had such a system that had paid for itself and was totally "free", then I might opt to stay off.
A lot of people here during that 70s-80s homesteading era lived without power for the most part...although in the 80s personal generators (noisy, cantankerous gasoline ones, this was before the days of the nice little quiet Hondas) started to become popular and it got pretty noisy at night.  There was talk of a noise ordinace regarding shutting off generators before a certain time at night but it never happened.  My neighbor's is pretty quiet, and I've lived with worse anyway, like right above the high school ball/band field with the sounds of broadies being spun out in the parking lot.
My parents met each other in California when my dad was (tuna?) fishing down there but he was a mainly Alaska resident.  But they'd fish up here in the summers, hence being up here.  They never married so didn't divorce but their relationship became much more distant over time, hence my double-siting all these years.  My mom lived in Atascadero, and I spent most of my life to date in that house there, it was a home to me until only last year after she passed away and we sold it.  I first came to Port Alexander in 1999, as a toddler, and learned to walk here.  The house we rented...it's still in existence but is abandoned now.  My dad later had a house in Sitka for a few years (2003 to 2008 or so) but ended up selling it and moving onto his boat thinking he'd retire, fish a bit in the summers and spend the rest of the year down in Atascadero with me and in Mexico or something LOL. (I might also add when I was really young my dad had a ranch in New Mexico). Anyhow after the house in Sitka sold it ended up becoming a meth lab or crack house or whatever...and ended up being gutted and torn down.  There's a big new house on the lot, but it's not where I have childhood memories, that's for sure!
When I moved up here full time in 2008 we stayed in a friend's house here in Port Alexander for two winters while we bought and fixed up the house we're currently in.  It was a huge upgrade getting our own place though, funky as it is, being a rural homestead house built by hippies LOL. So yeah I've been around...but had one house for my entire life at the same time up until last year.
Yeah I'm considering a road trip or something, though I only had that idea since the army truck interest developed a couple months ago.  It would be a nice change of scenery/pace from my current lifestyle of never leaving the same couple square miles very often during the winters.  (Though in the summers I'm in and out quite often).
I like to travel, but it can get tiring for sure.  I like taking slower trips though, even getting to Sitka for something I'd take an 8+ hour boat trip over a floatplane...I hate small planes anyway. One of the experiences I have many people don't is I've actually "driven" the (now out of commission) mailboat for this place. Another one is having the high speed state ferry slow down for me going into Sitka.  (But that's another story)



Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 25, 2015, 09:27:40 PM
Oh sorta like  Drano?  (http://www.drano.com/en-US/Pages/Home.aspx) My neighborhood is a drained swamp land so the water table is pretty high and on top of that, everyone has septic systems so there's even more water. A lot of the trees around here are dying because now that my neighborhood is fully-developed, there's more water in the ground from septic leeching fields. And the roads tend to get small sinkholes in the springtime with all the rain we get. We've never gotten any surface flooding except in my next-door neighbor's backyard, which fills up like a bathtub it it rains a lot. They've got a drain though so the water drains from the backyard into the street. The foundation of my house is cracking because of the high water table in my area, so we're installing French Drains this spring/summer, as we just got a crack in our foundation patched (in the utility room) since water was leaking in. We've had a few cracks in the garage but we don't worry a ton about them since the garage's foundation is exposed inside and the water can just drain outside through the overhead door. In the basement, the water would just collect. We also got a crack in the finished part of the basement, and in that part the foundation has drywall over it (of course, with studs placed around the foundation, stuffed with insulation, and then that's drywalled) so in order to fix it, the drywall had to be cut out in that section so we could make sure there was no water damage (turns out the crack wasn't a through-crack so water didn't get through, so the wall was opened up for no reason). We had the crack filled from the outside, as it wasn't a through crack. As for the utility room, they had to dig the dirt out on the outside where the crack was and they chiseled away part of the foundation where the crack was on the outside and inside and they filled it with concrete. You can't even tell there was ever a crack! My dad had fixed the crack in the foundation in the garage with silicone caulking but when it rains a lot we still get water. We didn't want to pay a professional to do it though since it's just the garage. If the crack spreads we will have to do something, but hopefully the French Drains work when they're installed...

Ah you have to burn it? What about glass bottles and stuff? You can't burn glass... ah yeah I guess a central power plant wouldn't be practical for the number of people living there. Any generator I've heard sounds like a lawnmower with a loud noise. Ah so your mom never went to Alaska? Did they live together when your dad was down in Atascadero in the summer? (sorry if my questions are too personal. I know some people don't like to open up about their families too much. I have no problem sharing most stuff but if I ask too many questions just say something. I just get curious about other people's lives and how they compare to mine, since I'm more of a house cat {I don't travel all that much lol}). Oh wow your old house in Sitka got taken over by drug lords? lol I've only been in an airplane twice I think. Once I was either in the womb or just a toddler. Either way, I have no recollection of it. I only remember being in a plane in 5th grade, going to Florida (which was our destination the other time too). And the plane was a jet (Southwest Airlines). Never been inside a small plane before. I kinda have a minor fear of flying because of all these terrorist things. In fact, I believe one of the terrorists in the 9/11 attacks had flown out of either T.F. Green airport (Rhode Island) or Logan Airport (Massachusetts) up into Maine where all the "buddies" met up before going into Canada and hopping onto the planes. If I lived on the west coast, I'd probably fear airplane terrorism a little less, but the east coast seems to be where most of the "action" happens...

I've driven my grandpa's boat and my great-aunt's boyfriend's boat probably 5 or more years ago, but they don't really count since they're just small motorboats and I only got to control the steering wheel; they controlled the gas/speed. My grandpa sold the boat (he had it in New Hampshire) a couple years before he died since he couldn't travel up there and it was only costing him money (to stay in storage; unused). My great-aunt's boyfriend died a few years ago. His boat was in Narragansett, RI when I drove it but he owned property in Florida, where he would keep the boat in the winter (and he and my great-aunt would live down there in the winter and live up here at their beach house in the summertime). My great-aunt still has the beach house, which she lives in full-time, but I think her boyfriend had left her his house in Florida, which she stays at occasionally every so often. They were together for years but like your parents, never got married. In the eyes of the law they were married (they lived together for more than 7 years, in addition to meeting whatever other requirements there are to be considered married for legal reasons). They were very close though and both very nice people. He's got a couple daughters from a previous marriage and my great-aunt never had kids with her ex-husband. (BTW, this great-aunt is my mom's mom's sister, my great-aunt that I rewired her house is my dad's mom's sister, in case there was any confusion there. My dad's mom's sister was never in a relationship as far as I know. She had lived with a female friend until she had died (that was 10+ years ago) and they were close, so perhaps they were in a relationship but she's never mentioned anything and nobody asks, since they're from a time where that's frowned upon but whatever. She's an awesome person so it really doesn't matter, as long as she's happy in life...
Title: A~
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 25, 2015, 11:14:42 PM
Nah it's more like powdered enzymes. Here I don't have water table issues since I'm near a beach, though since it rains a lot there's water everywhere anyway.  Wow! Sounds like you guys have to redo all your landscaping now! And your house is only 12 years old, and the foundation is cracking already! Wow!
Yeah some of them are really loud and obnoxious, others not so much. 
I wouldn't say drug LORDS but yeah...our old neighbors (with the 100w HPS cobrahead) told us some horror stories.
My mom spent some time up here.  She hadn't been here in a decade though when she passed, and the last time was only to Sitka and not out here since my dad wasn't living out here at that point.
The house in Atascadero had a couple cracks in the concrete garage floor but we never worried about them.  Actually the garage was a walk-out basement (one half buried, one half at grade level) and made of cinderblock, then 3 stories on top of that.
I personally do also think of 9/11 whenever I fly too.   Maybe because we're both millenials and grew up in the post-9/11 world I guess. 
I took the SAT today.  It was about what I expected it to be...long and boring except some of the reading passages were somewhat amusing, granted to a person that doesn't take much seriously anyway (that's me)
And remember our discussion of neighborhood noises? Today I was talking with the friend we housesat for during two winters before we had our own house and I brought up the whistler turbo sound story again..."remember how we couldn't figure out WHAT that was?" and mentioned I now know what that sound was from!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 26, 2015, 11:39:54 PM
I forgot to mention the RidX a little more clearly...the enzymes basically "eat" the fecal matter so in theory the septic doesn't need to be pumped unless it's full of foreign matter.  Here if it did fill up my options would I guess be to either cap it off and dig a new septic next to it, or dig it up, bring in a trash pump, and pump it out into 55 gallon drums or something, which would need to be taken elsewhere and disposed of I guess.
My septic is a regular conventional huge plastic tank I think, though I've known of septics being done out of plastic 55 gallon drums before.  One in particular, they had about 8 of them hooked together (on a hill) with I think the last one being full of rocks and holes drilled in it to act as a "leech field".  Probably not to code (if it's applicable here) but for that neighbor's house it got them a flushing toilet anyway, a big upgrade! (I've been in situations that lacked a flushing toilet and they (litterally) stank!
I'm thinking I'm going to install 4 of my 5 slimline fixtures in my garage now as soon as I get lamps, as well as a few other lights I have.  Especially since it's now "my" garage, since I now actually own my house 100% free and clear.  (Yes, I own my own house as of today; ownership was signed over to me). Even though as you might imagine I've sorta moved around a lot in my life I now have a consistent home base again (Had the house in Atascadero until last year but never owned it on paper of course). Nice to have some stability and something to come back to, even though I don't intend to live here all the time. So there's my kinda-exciting news I had to share SOMEWHERE...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 27, 2015, 09:15:23 PM
Our landscaping if fine. Or do you mean they will need to tear it up to put in the French drains? Yep, only 12 years old! (well the foundation itself if actually 14 years old, but still, we should be getting cracks that let water leak through since I've seen 100-year old foundations with no cracks that have water go through them.) Our garage is part of our basement. About 1/3 of the basement. The yard slopes up slightly and the driveway stays level (well, it has a very minimal grade; just enough to make water run down to the street). Since we have a raised ranch, the basement is only about 4ft below grade in the front yard and about 5ft below grade in the backyard, as the backyard is slightly higher than the front yard up against the house. The yard slopes downward away from the house so the perimeter is the lowest area on the property.

Ah I don't have to take the SATs since I'm not attending a 4-year college. (I'm going to a technical school to become an electrician.) Oh I see about the RidX. A little different than Drano lol. My septic has three barrels. Ones got the crap in it and the other two are for other things, which I don't know. Ah you're going to install your slimlines in the garage? Oh I didn't realize you had five slimlines now. Pretty soon you can start rivaling my grandpa's shop lol.

Wait, so you own your house personally or did you mean that you and your dad owned it and it was "yours" as in both of yours? Or did you dad sign the house over to you? Our house is technically still owned by the bank since the mortgage hasn't been totally paid off yet but I think my parents are over the hump as far as the payments are concerned.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 27, 2015, 11:43:55 PM
Needing to dig everything up to do French drains.  I know someone who did EXTENSIVE French-draining and they had ditches everywhere for awhile LOL.  (And still do, it's a work in progress).  Granted, their place is right up against a giant rock/cliff, so lots of runoff.
If you are digging up the yard to install French drains you might want to consider it a timely opportunity to run power to your shed, since you're already navigating around stuff like water mains, your septic leech field, your electrical feed to the house if it's underground, and sprinkler system plumbing if you have any.  Then you'd have electricity in the shed, and could have some vintage preheaters installed out there in working order, as well as receptacles for power tools, etc.
Yeah that seems kinda new for cracks to be developing.  Was your house built on fill dirt? If so it's probably settling...I know of a case of someone's 9 year old double-wide mobile home that had been put on top of trees that had been basically bulldozed over and buried...after 9 years it had settled so badly it had been jacked up I think 3 times and it was STILL settling! And we were commenting, "Drywall cracks are one thing, but what about the plumbing?"
My house is on a relatively flat lot.  No real "Basement", mostly crawlspace. But the absolute front is half a story lower...due to low grade and also being built at literally 10 different times.
Your other two may be a leech field of sorts.
It was paid off and signed over into my name, simpler than having both of us on there and  if he should die there'd be no inheritance stuff to worry about. So I own it outright.  I must say my attitude toward the place has changed though, I'm willing to invest more time and energy into it now to make it nicer now that it's a permanent fixture in my situation...I spent much of today cleaning up the yard.  It's kinda unique though since many people rent all their lives, yet I own already.  Granted, I don't intend to live here forever, and may end up selling, but until then it's always something to come back to in a pretty unique location! Like I've said though I can easily see myself moving back to that area of California I'm from if I'm not here.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 28, 2015, 06:51:59 PM
Oh I think we're just having the drains put along the footing of the foundation and then across the front yard out into the street. We won't be anywhere near the shed. We're not putting power to the shed. Just not practical and a waste of time and money. I can still mount lights, just to get them out of the way. The shed is only used for storage and as a garage for the ride-on mower/tractor so we don't go out there at night so don't need lights. Our yard is small enough where an extension cord easily reaches across the yard.

You are making me think more about mounting a light on the shed though. If I did, I would find some way to avoid hardwiring it though. I'd probably hook it up to a cord and then just run an extension cord across the yard when I want to use it lol. And that's with the 10% chance my parents would agree to me mounting a street light on my shed. :(

The house was built on a lot that was woods before. When they built my neighborhood back in the 50s, they had just paved roads and never clear-cut the land. So all the lots remained woods until the property was purchased and a house was built on it. My lot was all woods before my house was built, but I don't know what kind of dirt it's on...

Ah I see. Yeah it makes sense to put it in your name I guess. I personally don't want my house. I love the house we live in now; it's a nice house in a nice neighborhood and it was built well as far as new construction is concerned but it's just not the kind of house I want. I want a nice huge unfinished basement and a big backyard surrounded by trees or bushes or something and a nice area of the backyard where I can built a nice workshop/storage building.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 28, 2015, 09:25:55 PM
This place has some bizarre features I don't care for but it's a place to call my own and I intend to put my mark on it if I end up living here forever.  Unless my dad builds a new house behind this one I think I'd just rennovate this one slowly to make it "mine" and a little less bizarre (i.e. fewer rooflines, etc).
What would you use on the shed? A cobra? Yeah just wire it to an extension cord or something...that's how my yardblaster is wired to this day!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 28, 2015, 10:35:41 PM
Ah and maybe move the breaker box to the garage instead of the bathroom? :P ;D Or do you mainly mean cosmetic stuff?

Yeah I would have a cobrahead on the shed (or a NEMA head, since they use the same style mast arm).  I would mount it on the side of the shed with the window, the side shown in this pic, though the exact spot I would mount it is cut out of the pic..  (http://www.galleryoflights.org/mb/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-17203) I would install the mast arm onto a section of wood (2X12 stock or something; we have some in the shed) and then screw the plank onto the shed wall and then screw another plank on the inside, drill two holes through the planks and wall, and then link everything with two long bolts with nuts and washers. That way the plank on the outside cannot pull out of the wall and the stress is put on the plank on the inside of the shed, which will be attached to the studs. I would run wire through PVC conduit down to a few feet off the ground where the conduit would meet a junction box (conduit goes through the top of the box). The junction box will house a duplex receptacle for convenience (don't need a GFCI since it would be connected via extension cord to the GFCI on the house in the backyard when used). A cord would extend from below the junction box. The cord would be a few inches long. Just long enough to allow it to plug into an extension cord. Not code compliant, but its better than just attaching a 50ft extension cord to the light lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 01, 2015, 03:05:12 PM
LOL you're really observant of my wiring issues! And maybe go back and rewire everything I skipped the ground on too...
I'd have to show a pic of where I'd put a cobra if I had one here.
What I REALLY want though for an area light (Or even two of them, one on my driveway side and one in my backyard) is an 18w or 35w LPS NEMA! (Bright enough, and really minimal power use, so I could run it dusk-to-dawn; my 175w MV won't go all night without killing the batteries; I've tried before!)
I like that idea quite a bit! Post pics if you do! If you want it hardwired go the route I did and run #12 extension cord through some 1/2" PEX water pipe (garden house might work too) and bury it 6" underground.  Pretty minimal digging.  I only even did the PEX since it gets driven over by ATVs occasionally and my firewood splitting block could get set right on top of it LOL. (Yes, I still chop umpteen cords each winter by hand!)

We're getting nice weather now and it reminds me how I really want solar power here! I'd lime to diversify my energy sources more...for my hot water I intend to find a wood cookstove and replace the diesel stove with that, so it heats my water, and when not running the cookstove (summer) I'd just run my 10Kw diesel generator and power the electric element in the tank.  I'd also like to move said generator into a seperate shop, with a greenhouse on the south-facing side, and use it's heat to heat the greenhouse.
And solar and wind power...and more battery capacity to get through dark and calm periods. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 01, 2015, 04:12:07 PM
A giant CFL would probably make it through the night and better CRI but they're boring compared the LPS lol.

LOL if I won't be hard-wiring it or burying any cable but if I were to, I'd do it the right way and use outdoor gray romex. :P I would run 14 gauge outdoor rated gray romex from the light and then have a 2-gang box on the shed wall instead of a single gang. The box would have a duplex receptacle and a toggle switch for the street light, as the set-up would otherwise have 24/7 power being hardwired. I would then run 1/2" PVC across the yard to the outlet on the back of the house and tap in there.

But since I don't plan to live here forever, this is just a temporary set-up and so I want to avoid any underground lines and keep the project simple (and inexpensive too).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 01, 2015, 05:15:57 PM
I'd use direct-burial for everything if I did that. 
I plan to own this place for awhile, so naturally I'm willing to do more.  I'm thinking when the shop/greenhouse/woodshed is built I'll move my yardblaster there, it will be more effective in that location.
A large CFL would indeed have better CRI but LPS is more efficient than even that and just has "cool" factor! (Something I'm into LOL)
I've thought if the ballast craps out in my yardblaster I'll go the large CFL route for that fixture.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 01, 2015, 08:37:57 PM
Anything underground should be in conduit IMO. I don't care what the minimum for code is. I just think it's safer for it to be in conduit lol. Plus it makes it easier if you ever need to replace the wiring for whatever reason. Just pull the wire through the conduit and then feed new wire through the conduit. With no conduit you have to dig a new trench for a new cable lol.

CFL wouldn't do good in the cold either, though LPS is useless IMO since it lights up stuff but you really can't "see" anything. It's a rather useless light. I actually prefer HPS to LPS, though LPS does have an undeniable "cool factor" to it. Giant CFLs would be better to replace high-wattage incandescent or low-wattage HID indoors. I've actually seen HID highbays retrofitted to CFL and it was pretty bright! The MH was probably brighter but the CFLs did a pretty good job! And the life of a CFL SHOULD be better than MH, but then again, LEDs are supposed to last "25 years" or some crap like that but I've seen plenty of LEDs used in these energy audit retrofit programs for churches and other buildings already FAIL! (they were all Philips BTW). Sure LEDs will last 25 years if they remain in the box on a shelf in the basement for all that time lol.

Well, I brought up mounting a light on the shed to my mom and she said "talk to your father about it" so I got the green light from her (I don't think she really cares where I put my lights up at this point lol) so I will bring it up after all the snow is melted outside and it's nice out. After all the snow melts the grass will probably be soggy for another couple months. Usually with all the rain we get in the spring the ground remains soggy until late May. They're predicting a cool, wet summer so the ground might be soggy all year lol. Summer 2014 was pretty cool but was very dry (it only rained three times all summer). The hottest week was when we went back to school, when it topped out at 98*F in the last week of August/first week of September. Anyway, back to the potential light set-up on the shed, so far, the materials I've totaled up have come to less than $20, which is awesome. 3/4" PVC conduit, 3/4" liquid-tight flex (basically waterproof BX cable but it doesn't come with wires inside already), 3/4" conduit straps (5-pack), 15A duplex receptacle, weather-tight junction box cover, junction box, and two long carriage bolts with nuts and washers. (I didn't factor the junction box itself or the carriage bolts into the cost, but I still think it should only cost around $20-25 to set up which isn't bad at all. I will need to buy some PVC sealant to properly waterproof the PVC joints though, which shouldn't cost much. I could probably even get away with liquid electrical tape, silicone caulking, or even superglue. I'm getting a little ahead of myself though. I haven't even gotten approval from my dad yet, who might be against drilling holes into his precious shed walls, fearing water damage. We had some water issues before with the original window, which was wood. The window jam wasn't pressure treated and rotted out, causing water to leak inside. If we had waited too much longer the floor may have began to rot (it's plywood FYI). We built a new jam with pressure treated wood and ordered a new vinyl window for it. We had also replaced the barn style doors on it too since they were warped and rotted. The original doors were made out of tongue-and-groove planks. The new doors we used were made from 4X8 sheets of Texture 111, cut to size. It looks the same but it's all one piece so it was much easier to make. The shed is from 2004 BTW. After 10 years the doors and window had done their time I guess lol. I will let him know that I know what I'm doing though and will see what he says. But after the snow thaws, since I can get right to work after his approval (if he approves). If I bring it up now and he approves it, he might change his mind before I can built it lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 01, 2015, 10:49:12 PM
Yeah and never mind errant backhoe operators, etc.  (You might remember my septic leech field story from a few posts back)
Yeah I've seen some retro jobs that look OK but also have seen some really UGLY ones.  The one that always annoys the heck out of me is those retrofit kits to "modify" (Read: Cannibalize) a 2XF96T12 slimline into a 2XF32T8, single lamp in tandem.  I HATE those things!
I think MH should last longer than a CFL but what do I know? LOL.  My luck with CFLs has been pretty decent actually...never had a meltdown on one of those, MUCH LESS A PCB-CONTAINIG  BALLAST! (I'm jokingly referring to THAT incident once again)
Now I know that actual name for that tacky plywood siding I despise! Although T-111 is everywhere in my house, much of the outside in it, and even some INDOORS! (In fact, I'm seeing some out of the corner of my eye as I type!).  It just rots in this climate, though I've had some unpainted T-111 outside for going on 5 years without too much warping (yet).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 02, 2015, 05:33:46 PM
Well, PVC conduit won't protect the cord from getting cut or crushed but it would be better in an area like mine where there is a high water table. I'd preferably used rigid conduit (Basically the outdoor version of EMT, which used threaded connections like gas lines instead of connectors with screws. EMT is for indoor use only. PVC is generally only used outdoors and rigid conduit can be both, though indoor installations are generally older before EMT became popular, as EMT is easier to work with since it's thinner pipe therefore easier to bend.) Rigid conduit is expensive though and I don't have a pipe threader to work with it. PVC is fine for my uses though, as this is pretty much just a temporary set-up (though long-term, until I move out). I'm finalizing the plans for the set-up, which I will post in the gallery when I'm done.

Yeah the 8ft T12 to 4ft T8 retrofits usually look bad. I don't mind factory-made tandem F32T8 strip lights but not crazy about anything else. Going from 2X F96T12 to 2X F32T8 is stupid though. At least use 4X F32T8 so there's still two 8ft sections of lamp lit. Going from 2 8ft T12s to 2 4ft T8s is like just delamping every fixture, which is stupid. Sure you save money but you get less light too. I'm all about getting more light for the same price lol. For example, me with the Energy-Saving halogen lamps. I replace them with "one-up". 43W is supposed to replace 60W, 53W is supposed to replace 75W, and 70-something watts is supposed to replace 100W but I use 43W to replace 40W, 53W to replace 60W, and would replace 75W lamps with the 70-something watt lamps. To replace 100W lamps I'd probably also use the 70-something watt lamps since they don't make a 150W= halogen to "upgrade" to lol.

I like T-111 on a shed or something but seems kinda cheap to use on a house. It's basically just plywood with a decorative front lol.

My luck with CFLs has been pretty good too but we've just been replacing them even though they work since I have so many. LEDs are down to $4.95 here so my parents might end up getting some LEDs soon, to replace the A-shaped MaxLite CFLs in the kitchen and dining room that take forever to warm up. We'd need eight though, which is a lot of money to spend at once for lamps (over $40 with tax). I couldn't see them spending the $20 for four of them either.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 03, 2015, 11:12:42 PM
I'm pleased to say one of the Sears shoplights has undergone a conversion to HPF! I was given a presumed-dead Universal .65a ballast that only lists 40w lamps from 1984 (I 84 stamped on back).  It came from the same school maintenance guy who turned me onto the dozens of Mainlighter lamps. He went to change some bad lamps and the replacements still didn't work...so a bad ballast is the next logical troubleshooting step of course...still didn't work.  Anyway it must have been a defective lamp since this ballast he gave me works fine. In keeping with the theme it's running a pair of those Mainlighters now.  Only bad thing is, at .65a it's not as bright as a .80a would be, and being ungrounded (didn't even bother since the wiring it's hooked up to isn't) it doesn't like to start without being "touched".  It starts a little dim in the 40 degree garage ("rectifying" like flicker) but warms up quickly.  I'm pleased with how it turned out, though since the leads got cut short when it was removed (from a classroom I used to spend a lot of time in!) I had to splice EVERY SINGLE ONE! (except the hot and neutral).  And going from LPF to HPF meant having to relocate the ballast bolts which was a pain even though the holes were already though.  But I'm pretty thrilled with how it came out!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 04, 2015, 09:13:02 PM
Oh wow I didn't know they went any lower than 0.65A. Yep I 84 is September 1984 (Universal didn't skip I like others did).

Yeah troubleshooting can be tricky if the fixture doesn't light with new lamps. Because I don't want to replace anything that still works, but obviously it sure worked out for you! Too bad about the short wires though. :-\ But hey, its better than no HPF ballast! :D I got some more vintage wallplates today. ;D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 04, 2015, 09:50:29 PM
Yeah .65a for a pre-EPACT ballast that's from 1984 and STILL makes absolutely NO mention of 34 watt lamps ANYWHERE seems unusual.  Do you think it's OK for 34s? (I bet it had them when it was removed but I want to be safe).
I took the LPF MagneTek from the Sears shoplight that got replaced with the Universal HPF ballast and used it to replace a dead BenchLite in another much cheaper shoplight.  Extra brownie points: I did it while the fixture was still suspended! (It was a PITA).  For me the thing I hate the most about changing ballasts isn't even working on a ladder or splicing wires: it's getting that ballast nut started/threaded again! (This always takes an eternity for me).  So I'm glad fixture manufacturers finally got the brilliant idea to make one side a slot on some newer fixtures, and some even went as far as using a Philips screw instead of a nut! (My Metalux 8ft slimline lights are like this)
So it's now up and going with a pair of post-EPACT, pre-2003 "For Commercial Use Only" (Ha, they're in a residential setting!) cool white 34w Watt-Miser lamps.  We'll see how it holds up. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 04, 2015, 10:17:36 PM
Hmm does the ballast run cool with F40s? If so, I'd try F34s but monitor it to see how hot it gets. See how hot it gets after 10, 30, 60, and 120 minutes with F40s. If the ballast isn't scorching hot after two hours than I'd say try F34s and do the same thing. As long as the ballast doesn't run too hot it's not a problem. Definitely a weird ballast though. You'd think a ballast with such a low current draw would be rated for F34T12s or even F30T12/T8s.

Ah the whole reason I suspend lights is so I can take then down to preform maintenance lol. (and also so I can remove/install the light as one single piece. That worked out well when the ballast EOL happened. I just unplugged it, delamped it, unhooked it, and ran to the curb lol.)

Ah I can actually say that I've never changed a ballast in a fixture while it was installed. I've only done it when the fixture is removed. Yeah some fixtures use a sheet metal tek screw instead of a nut.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 04, 2015, 11:43:23 PM
I actually haven't heat-tested it yet but I would think touching the top of the suspended shoplight it's in should be an OK way to know.  Except it's really close to the ceiling! It shows little or no signs of running hot anyway.  (label is a bit faded, but it's spent over 30 years in daily use except summer vacation, being in a school until now.  But 40s are brighter anyway...I mainly use 34s only on LPF ballasts, because they work better than 40 watt lamps do, starting better in the cold and on ungrounded ballasts (many of my (secondhand) fixtures are wired to only 2 prong cords, also secondhand from other broken items) I once swore I would never allow a 34 watt lamp on my property but I've obviously relaxed that since I'd always get them for free (I've only ever paid for 4' lamps on two occasions).  I might even buy them for LPF ballasted fixtures though after seeing how much better they seem to work...although I'm pretty much set for life already on 40w lamps, except many of them are vintage and my least favorite color, namely warm white Mainlighters.  So I might buy 40w lamps only to get something like /950 or daylight deluxe instead.
This one was tied up and not easily removable and I was feeling lazy and didn't want to have to resuspend it. 
I've changed ballasts in hardwired, hardmounted fixtures before but maybe that doesn't count LOL...but when I did the HPF upgrade in the Sears shoplight last night I took it down and did it on the floor (But it was easier to remove than this other one).
When I did this one tonight I also realized it's the first ballast I've replaced where the "new" one has full length leads! (Well sorta, the reds and blues were short whereas the Benchlite it replaced had like 3' on both ends).  I did once change out a bad LPF MagneTek in a Lithonia wraparound I have in use for a LPF Radionic (used) and in that case I changed the sockets since the Radionic had them attached already from being in another fixture.
I was impressed to see this shoplight I just did, which came with my house, despite having a spliced cord, had been grounded! Granted, it's plug is missing the third prong and is spliced onto a piece of orange #16 extension cord.  (I might add almost every power tool and many other appliances that came with my house had their cords spliced with wirenuts and electrical tape).  Granted, I've left some this way, such as that shoplight, although I personally wouldn't do it that way.  It's far from up to code but it's been working perfectly fine for over a decade in all these cases, so I choose to not change it unless I rewire something.
I swear, this MagneTek also works better in this cheap shoplight than in the Sears one! It actually warmed up to the point the lamps quit striating, whereas in the Sears light it woudn't do that (In both cases the fixtures are in unheated rooms where it stays about 40 degrees, but can even dip below freezing on occasion during the winter)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 05, 2015, 07:50:06 PM
Yeah if the label isn't brittle and flaking off then it probably ran cool. I have 34W lamps in use in my turret since the lamps are close in age to the fixture. And since it's the only fixture in use rated for them.

Ah I used to have fixtures powered by ungrounded cords but as I've gotten more cords I've rewired them with grounded cords (the two exceptions being the F14T12 strip over my bed, which has an 18-gauge ungrounded lamp cord, and the F30T12 wall-mounted undercabinet light, which has a white 16-gauge lamp cord.) The F14T12's ungrounded flat cord (with the wires side-by-side instead of in a round outer jacket) is more convenient for its application. With the F30T12, I just haven't bothered rewiring it since it doesn't get touched anyway. I have added grounded cords to the two undercabinet lights in the utility room though (F8T5 and F20T12) replacing the ungrounded lamp cords. I also added grounded cords to other lights not in use that just float around in the collection. But when I mounted most of my spare fluorescents, I removed the cords from most of them.

My Harmony House shoplight from my grandpa's bathroom at his shop was suspended with a chain and the chain was held up by wrapping some sort of wire around the EMT conduit and "tying" it up there. The fixture was wired to an ungrounded cord, which plugged into a keyless incandescent socket with one of those lamp socket to outlet socket adapters. When I removed it, I removed the lamps (which is always my first step in removing a fixture so that the lamps don't get damaged during the removal) and then I just snipped the chains by getting a pair of pliers and bending a link on each end back and forth until it broke. After removing the Harmony House Light, I attached the ungrounded wire-on plug that was on the Harmony House light to the new F32T8 light, which I had already attached a cord and chain to at home. I had brought two "S" hooks, so I simply attached the S hooks to the remaining chain and attached the new fixture's chain to the S hook and then plugged the fixture back into the outlet on the ceiling. I coiled up the excess cord and zip-tied it to make it neater. After removing the old light, installing the new one took less than five minutes and was a breeze since I prewired and pre-assembled the fixture. Since the old light's plug was ungrounded, I just cut the ground wire off where it exited the cord (I had used a section of extension cord and had pre-stripped the wires) so the light is still ungrounded despite having a grounded cord, though in theory it should be grounded if the EMT goes all the way back to the breaker box if he's got a ground spike somewhere (not sure if the building even has a ground, though one was probably added when he upgraded from fused to breakers years ago). As far as I know, the new fixture's lamps and ballast (Lamps are Philips Alto II F32T8/735s and the ballast is an Advance) which actually surprised me but I'm happy since it means a job well done. It wouldn't make me look good if the fixture failed after a couple months when the old fixture had worked for around 65 years. There was a LOT of dust/dirt on that Harmony House light. Ick! Looks great in my garage though. ;D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 05, 2015, 09:00:11 PM
Yeah I have a shunted-for-one-lamp Therm-O-Matic that's currently wired for one lamp (but was burnt looking when I got it).  A pic is somewhere on LG. 
That is one cool light for sure! Keep only 40 watt lamps in it, change bad ones promptly, and it should last another 65 years LOL.  Those older fixtures and ballasts practically tanks LOL.
The first Sears shoplight (Bonusline) was suspended with green telecom/Ethernet cable IIRC when I removed it from the house it was in that was going to be demolished (and since has).  It had it's original chains on it though, which are still holding it up at this very moment.  The two others are hung with normal wire (one is ballast leads, one is #12 stranded).  One of them (HPF-upgraded) also looks awesome in my garage, though nowhere as neat as that Harmony House preheater of yours. 
I read your comment about prefab cabinets and totally agree.  I much prefer homemade any day...I like heavier-duty items in general, especially if they're vintage. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 06, 2015, 04:36:40 PM
Oh yes, I will definitely keep 40W lamps in it. The ballast leads were kinda brittle though. I just taped them to the upper housing with electrical tape and used liquid electrical tape where the leads enter the ballast case. The light is very well-built! The one thing I don't really like is that you need a LOT of force to pull the hook-things to remove the reflector. You pull them down and turn 90 degrees and the reflector drops free, but the springs have a LOT of torque. I'm afraid I'm going to pull the fixture off the ceiling lol. Of course, if I ever need to get inside it, I'll just remove it though.

Suspended with internet cable? :o Aren't those thin-gauge wires? Ballast leads are really thin! The minimum wire gauge I'd use to suspend a light would be 10 (maybe 12 or 14 if it was a light fixture). My Lithonia F32T8/IS parabolic troffer is suspended with 10-gauge stranded wire (with green insulation). I grabbed a few feet for each end of the fixture and tied it to a couple flanges, which are actually designed for aircraft cable to attach to them, as the code requires troffers to actually be independently installed (and not rely 100% on the suspended ceiling grid to hold them up) so that way if the ceiling were to fall down for whatever reason (or it needed to be taken down) the fixtures wouldn't fall too. This also goes for air duct vents and anything else with some weight to it.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 06, 2015, 05:07:36 PM
Yeah the one with ballast leads is also holding TWO ballasts (It's the homemade 4' preheat fixture). It's a heavy setup!
It was thick-ish cable...your normal green Ethernet-looking cord. And tied like mad if I remember correctly...granted it was 2-1/2 years ago now.
The person who gave me the Universal ballast recently is coming over one of these times to check out the collection of mine...(Both lighting and non-lighting things).  We're both junk collectors LOL...can't pass up stuff for cheap or free that might someday prove useful! (We got into a whole discussion on scrap metal!) Today, for instance, we got to discussing vehicles and I was commenting how motorcycles would be a really fuel efficient and economical way to get to work every day, etc.  I then mentioned how I've had the ridiculous, bizarre idea for awhile now to own a Deuce and a half, and possibly drive it every day like normal....anyway turns out he has a '72 10-ton (maybe it's a 5) with new tires, new bed, etc. he can never sell despite trying, that he picked up for 600 bucks years ago...I said talk to me in 5 years and see if I'm interested LOL.  Right now I have a lot of roadblocks in the way though including: I don't drive (never even driven a car yet) money, parking (Well parking wouldn't be an issue at my house here but there's no road to it but there's other ways to get one in here) and the fact in most places my neighbors, etc. would think I was certifiably insane LOL.  (Although my current neighbors might accept something that weird next to them, they know me LOL)
BTW I also worked on the knife block some more this week, (Was on hiatus for a few months), got it glued up and the next step is trimming it with the Delta UniSaw my Bonusline-ballasted Sears shoplight that used to be hung with Ethernet cord used to be right above!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 06, 2015, 05:28:07 PM
OK Mike, you mentioned locking a cell phone in a drawer for a month and having no missed calls, I'm the same way! Mine's one of those prepaid "GoPhones" anyway, and I always let the service expire for long periods of time too! (Months and months).  That's OK though, since I hardly ever use it, being that I live in an area where it doesn't work.  But it comes in handy when traveling...that phone saved my butt while stranded in the San Jose airport once LOL.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 06, 2015, 05:41:41 PM
I guess those wires are stronger than I thought! They're not rated for strain resistance or load-bearing so I try to avoid it if at all possible, but the troffer is a feather compared to some of my other fixtures despite its large size (the thing is built like a tin can versus a tank like my older lights and it also has an electronic ballast versus magnetic, so the troffer is much lighter). Those near-EOL GE SPX35s have held up so far too! The ends are very black but they're still going! I figured they'd be dead by now.

Ah wow you you found a source foe a deuce and a half! I'm looking for a job so I can have a regular source of income so I can save up for a car. I have my license so I can drive (and I do, I just use my parents' vehicles when they let me). Ah let me know how the knife block turns out! I remember you started that around the time I built the desktop podium (which is doing well, I see it every day, since I sit right in front of it ;D )

BTW, remember how I said that my grandma told me they replaced the 100W MV M-250R1s on her street with HPS? Well, tomorrow I will get to see them in person! I'm assuming they installed 70W HPS drop lens M-250R2s, though I'm hoping they installed 100W HPS (though it's a stretch, as the lights were 100W MV). The street was very nicely lit with 100W MV so I'm curious to see how different to street is with HPS.

You got stranded at an airport? :o
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 06, 2015, 06:43:00 PM
Yeah, or maybe I'm just lucky.  I even had an 8ft slimline suspended with ballast leads for awhile and it was fine, until it got taken down later. 
This is...ahem...a bit larger than a Deuce but it's along the same lines LOL...same basic design, etc.  I should ask more about it...I think I might.  Something like that will almost certainly require a CDL to drive though, whereas in most states except (I think maybe) California a Deuce does not.  (Ha, if I had one it'd likely sit in California most of the time). 
This one I mentioned sits in Port Townsend, WA though. 
Well tell us how they look! I'd personally really miss the MV look.
I did once get stranded in an airport!
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on March 06, 2015, 09:58:57 PM
Ah I tend to over-do things when I install fixtures. You should see the hooks I use. They could probably hold up a small car (that is if the ceiling could support the weight lol). Lowe's sells Metalux suspension kits for like $4 or $6. It's a bag with two V brackets and two 36" chains. They're nice kits but most of my lights come with chains. I bought two of those Metalux kits from Lowe's: one for the Metalux Turret and the other for the T8 light I installed at my grandpa's shop, as both of those lights didn't have suspension kits. For my own lights in my house, I actually only use the V-bracket part. I just hook the vertex of the upside-down V to the hooks and the chains don't really serve a purpose. In fact, my 1973 shoplight doesn't even have any chains, just the V brackets. It came with the V-brackets but didn't have any chains. I want the lights as close to the ceiling as possible without hard-mounting them. If I had really tall ceilings I'd probably use the chains, but I think our ceilings are only about 8ft tall (which is actually taller than some homes, I can touch the ceiling at my grandma's/aunt's/late-grandpa's house. In my bedroom, I can touch the blades on my ceiling fan when I stand on my tiptoes (which is 90" or 7.5ft from the floor). The ceiling at my grandpa's shop is probably 15ft at least (maybe 20) so the chains would most definitely be used. Just for fun I has installed one of my shoplights using the whole chain and the light was maybe 4ft off the ground (just below my chest; I'm about 5'-5" tall).

Ah I see, so this is more of a double-deuce-and-a-half? LOL

Yeah I know I'm gonna be disappointed when I see all HPS on their street. I made damn sure every light had a new lamp too. That street was arguably the best maintained 100W MV-lit street in the northeast lol. NGrid is no longer maintaining the 100W MV lights either. So any remaining 100W MV lights are toast just like their 175W and 400W counterparts.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 06, 2015, 11:26:22 PM
Oh you use those bicycle hooks, right? Those things support so much weight it scares me...before you know it the ceiling/floor above could collapse.
Other Andyized ways of mounting: that exist in my house: A cheap Lithonia shoplight with the LOA-guts-in-an-F-Can ballast mounted into 1X8 subfloor above with drywall/sheetrock screws (Disclaimer: that's actually my first fixture installation, in May 2012).  It's kinda "wobbly" though since the heads on those screws don't hold it as tight as they could...it's noticeable when changing a lamp. I also had a heavier Benchlite-ballasted shoplight mounted  that same way and it was fine too, though later it's ballast quit and I stuck up a Lithonia 2XF32T8 wraparound in it's place, which is probably about as heavy I'd guess.  (That second/replacement is horrible, it's noticeably crooked).  Now, in hindsight I discovered later that the screws I used DID penetrate the subfloor above, but it's my shop attic anyway.  So, a couple years later, when I did that Lithonia basket wraparound I stuck up some 1X4s first then mounted the light on those.  I did them the whole length of the fixture but if I had to do it again I think I'd run them the other way thus leaving some air space above the light.  Both those and the fixture also got the drywall screw treatment.  (I know, I know!).  I also had a single lamp Lithonia F20T12 striplight mounted with drywall screws at one point, though it's nowhere near as heavy. 
Now my Dad did really well with the first wraparound he put up in the garage, he did it crosswise to the joists of the unfinished ceiling but used the screws you use for corrugated metal roofing...they hold really well and they have a washer-like head to the fixture is less "wobbly" than that Lithonia shoplight.  Ironically it's from before any of the fixtures I later added.  Those roofing screws work well for just about anything...you can even mount the cover on a breaker panel with them, attaching those "strap" or "Barn-door" hinges to doors, and the like.  They're well threaded but also will attach sheet metal without requiring a nut/washer on the other side.  Know the style I'm talking about?
I like having fixtures close to the ceiling but that doesn't always pan out.  When I did the 3-lamp Metalux/Gibson troffer  over my workbench/desk it ended up at about the top of an  averagely-placed window.  The HPF-upgraded Sears shoplight is REALLY close to the ceiling too.  I also used #10 stranded for that like your Lithonia troffer.  BTW yeah those GE Ecolux lamps seem to just keep going and going, I had one die but only after being jet black 3" from both ends for months.  (And in a frequently switched bathroom light too).
You mentioned wanting LEDs for household lighting in a previous post, I would have to agree.  I think as my CFLs die LEDs will replace them...or maybe I'll just splurge and convert all my E26 sockets to 5000K LEDs.  (Don't worry, all the linear fluorescents and the occasional HID will stay as they are; but I'd rather LED than CFLs or incandescents any day). 
My house varies in ceiling height depending on the room.  The room I'm typing this in has a sloped ceiling (roof) but it's at least 7' on the low side I'd say.  I like vaulted ceilings but IMO in a situation like this they're a huge waste of heat (Heat rises).  In another room adjacent to this if I stand on my tiptoes I can place my palms flat on the ceiling! (I'm about 5'10" ish).  In my kitchen it's a little higher save for some beams.  In my bathroom it's the same as the kitchen except the finish height is plywood over the beams so slightly lower.  And in my entryway/pantry it's the standard 8' I think.  In my shop (unfinished ceiling) it's probably 7' or so.  Sounds totally random but keep in mind this house was built at literally ten different times!
"Double deuce and a half"? You always make me laugh with the way you phrase things.  At least we share the same sense of humor (in text anyway); I've laughed hard at many of your posts over the years.  Anyway yeah I guess it could be described as such...more like a double or even quadruple LOL. (I'm not sure the 10 ton is correct, I'm thinking a 5 but I'm going to ask more about it; I need to start looking up more specs I guess.  If you're interested I'll keep you posted on what I find out about this thing LOL...I have no doubt in my mind it will be a MASSIVE (no pun intended) learning curve!
Yeah it's a shame to see old mercs replaced.  I don't mind seeing HPS go away though at ALL, I hate that orange light; that's what I like about LED or induction; back to the MV days as far as atmosphere is concerned.  I was just randomly thinking today next time I'm in a hardware store or home center (Probably the local True Value or Spenard's) I will try to buy some 175w MV lamps, to have as spares for my lone yardblaster fixture; I don't use it much and have a spare MV lamp (albeit used but it works fine) and even a 175w MH that fires up on that HX-NPF ballast, but you never know what can happen and they're gonna stop making MV lamps at the end of this year or so I'm told.  I think I'll buy /DX lamps though.  My dad wants HPS, so if I find one I WOULD get a 150w retrofit HPS lamp, but those things are EXPENSIVE and sorta uncommon (Not easy to find even online, much less at a hardware store or Walmart or anything).  It'd be slightly less power and almost twice as bright, so despite despising the color of HPS (especially in a yard with grass and trees) I would go for one if I come across such a lamp.  Or even one of those LOA "Buster" thingies, I've heard mixed things about them but then the light might actually run all night with my current power situation.  I almost bought one at an Ace Hardware in Atascadero and shipped it home but not for 27 bucks or whatever it was...and that was in 2013!
Although like I said, I'd go for a LPS NEMA in it's place too.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 07, 2015, 10:56:15 PM
Today someone on LG posted a way to wire a 2-lamp rapid start ballast as preheat, something I never knew was possible! (I'd like to try it sometime myself).  Then one of the ballasts could come out of my homemade 4' preheat shoplight and be used "normally" in another fixture.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 08, 2015, 02:19:20 PM
LOL, no I don't use bicycle hooks lol. They're like normal hooks, just really long (I had originally bought them so that the threads would go into the joists when we mounted the lights in the garage, as they had to first go through about 5/8" drywall first.

I use drywall screws all the time lol. Those fixtures that I mounted to get out of the way in the utility room are all screwed in with drywall screws lol. The F30T12 undercabinet light is too. I never screw fixtures into the subfloor though. I see it done frequently (the F90T17 in my grandpa's basement has the conduit "pendant" screwed into the subfloor, the F40/PH shoplights in my cousins' grandma's basement are screwed flush to the subfloor, and the F20 Western Electric lights in my great-aunt's basement were flush mounted to the subfloor. I just think it's so much better to use the joists. That way there's no worry about the screws going through the subfloor and also the joists can block the beam of the light, turning the light into a spotlight lol. A tip I have is always pre-drill the holes in the joists before screwing in the screws, as the joist WILL split/crack, unless you use really thin screws. Like I said, I usually have the "Go big or go home" mentality when I install lights so I tend to over do it with the hardware like screws and hooks when I install lights lol.

Ah yeah your ceilings aren't very uniform lol. I think the standard height for a ceiling is 7-8ft but I don't know if there's any strict rule about the height of a ceiling. LOL well I'm glad I can get a few laughs out of you. Sure, keep me posted on the information you get on it. :)

BTW, turns out I was right; they installed all 70W HPS drop lens M-250R2s. They kept the old arms though. They replaced EVERY SINGLE MERC on those two streets too. However, the lonely missouts in Pawtucket weren't touched. Just their street and the next one over, which were both 100% 100W MV. The lamps are so cool though: they start off like MV lamps just like the 1990s HPS lamps!!! It's AWESOME! The street is actually lit about the same with the 70W HPS. I have to say, I hate seeing the roughly 20 MVs bite the dust, but the street looked pretty cool with all-new lights. All the fixtures pretty much came on at the same time since all the PCs are the same and their all oriented the same way and same age, etc. The fixtures are very shiny too and the lenses and reflectors are so clean looking. Still, it's too bad to say good-bye to the mercs but I'm not totally disappointed. It would be worse if they used 50W HPS instead of 70W, as here they would have used 50W. I haven't seen the street at night with no snow though, as the snow makes it look brighter, so maybe it is actually darker. Who knows....


I'm pretty sure that's already been talked about. Just omit the yellows and wire up the reds and blues and add starters and you're good to go, right?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 08, 2015, 03:44:49 PM
Oh so we're talking what I call "houseplant hooks" except slightly more heavy-duty?
I like doing it between joists though since it makes the already-low ceilings in places here less low.  But yeah it does focus the light...but if I were ever to finish that shop I'd do the 50s-80s "Illuminated drop ceiling" route like you see in older kitchens (a setup I happen to really like, though many don't; I see them ripped out and 4 recessed cans put in all the time...how much brighter/more efficient is that? Not very!
I don't predrill ever actually! But much of my house is built out of locally-milled fir or hemlock or spruce (a 2X6 is actually a true 2X6, etc. I might add!) and screwing into that sort of wood is hard (literally!) even with a good screw gun...I almost need an impact driver. 
Yeah I'll keep you updated as I find out/learn more.
Well it (sorta) kept the MV theme then.  I'm surprised new HPS is going in though for mass installs/retrofits, I'd think LED or induction.  But hey, in a few years we'll all be driving around (in person or on Streetview) looking for the HPS  "miss-outs" like we do now for MV and (even rarer) incandescent at any rate anyway!
This diagram actually used the yellows, but capped off one red and one blue IIRC.  BTW a little bit before typing this I turned on the Sears rapid start-cum-preheat shoplight for the first time in maybe even over a month and those Sylvanias started REALLY starved, one was so "blink-happy" it took probably a good 20 seconds to stay lit! They warmed up fast though, the light was only on like 3-4 minutes while I was working a knot on video for my Nautical Skills class under it, and it was totally warmed up and bright when I shut it off. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 08, 2015, 07:02:57 PM
No, they're not plant hooks.  These are the hooks.  (http://www.galleryoflights.org/mb/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-17804) They're about 3" long.  You can see them here too.  (http://www.lighting-gallery.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-102503)

Yeah I'm one of the people who hates those illuminated drop ceilings. Well, I don't mind them looks-wise, but they're a maintenance pain and horribly inefficient. Most of the light gets trapped above the ceiling tiles, so actually the recessed cans would be MUCH more efficient than the illuminated drop ceiling. I'm not really a huge fan of fluorescents being used in "Living space" period, though triphosphor lamps kinda change that for me.

I'm not surprised. NGrid said they have no plans to use anything other than HPS in the foreseeable future. The lamps were all like-new in terms of light output so there was no good reason to replace them. The city probably requested that they be replaced, since NGrid wouldn't have gone a group-replacement otherwise; they would have replaced the mercs one-by-one as they failed. Now I wish I never reported any of them, since it would be around 15-20 100W MV lamps that could have gone into other fixtures that would have been kept in service. Of course now, any 100W MV gets replaced regardless.

In some places, HID is already totally gone from the streets. In RI that hasn't happened yet. RI still has almost all HPS and a lot of MV left too, if you know where to look. I'm sure the mercs will disappear within the decade though. HPS is here to stay (in RI at least). In another 20 years LEDs will probably be on most of the freeways here but as long as no municipalities purchase the street light ownership from NGrid, HPS will remain on the streets which is nice. I'd rather have HPS over LEDs. At least HPS lamps use "real" fixtures. Almost all LED and induction fixtures are hideous looking. Sure the color is good but the fixture will probably only last a few years and the looks of those fixtures makes me want to gouge my eyes out. >:( :8)

I lit up my M-250A in my room for the first time in probably a month or so. It's running now. I also had my F14T12 strip light on over my bed while I was reading The Great Gatsby for school (the only reason I ever read a book is for school). So far, that book SUCKS! I don't like reading books anyway. Nothing interests me in most books; it's all just a bunch of hogwash printed in tiny font on small, frail pages. I'm not a book person, though the standardized "STAR Reading Test" says I have  12.9+ grade equivalent reading level (the highest you can score) though I think that's false personally. There are plenty of words that I have no clue what the hell they mean. Google is my best friend lol. As far as the class goes, I'm pretty good in English (when I do my work; I tend to skip the more lengthy essays and assignments because I just don't feel like wasting two or three days writing some BS about something I don't give a crap about) but in math I actually do struggle. I try my best in math and I slack in English and yet I still do better in English lol. I do great in Science though. Chemistry is the only science class that I took that I didn't really like. It was heavily math-oriented too, so that explains a lot. I get geometry but I have a hard time balancing equations and solving logarithms and all that nonsense crap...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 08, 2015, 08:58:06 PM
Yeah and there's always that wonderful rectifying dead lamp in many of them. 
Well you'd hate my house then, there's fluorescents everywhere!
I just finished Upton Sinclair's "the Jungle" for the English class I'm doing.  I actually didn't mind it.  I always score really high on those tests too, but I think I'm terrible.  I hate writing essays only because I can't write free-form like I'm doing here...we both write the equivalent of a a 5 paragraph essay each day in this very thread, though face it, it's all off-topic digressions ranging from houseplant hooks to army trucks to prefab cabinets to streetlights LOL.  But I've enjoyed this thread a lot and I like to see where it goes with each post!
For me Geometry was a breeze but Algebra II (What I'm doing now) is hard for me to grasp honestly. I just started doing roots of rational equations, etc...well actually just finished.  I have a friend in Math107 and she does it, but I see her mom helping her all the time.  I also take an online biology class and an AK Studies class (both often at home when not surfing on here).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 08, 2015, 09:33:17 PM
Yeah i noticed rectifying fluorescents seem to be a thing in luminous ceilings lol. I like linear fluorescents but i would feel a lack of "home" if my house was lit with mostly linear fluorescents. Not sure why, probably just because I'm used to having just incandescents in "living space"...

Yeah i love this thread's randomness, since it gives us a chance to just talk about whatever. Funny how this thread is pretty much just a live chat between the two of us (with Joe joining in once in a while). I noticed this site has been getting less and less activity over the past few years. I figured it would start to get better again but it's getting worse and worse IMO. I kinda like having a low-key site but it gets a little boring and it's not as fun when there's only a couple people to share pictures with.

Yeah same, Geometry was pretty easy (except for those pointless "proofs") but Algebra II is HARD! I'm barely holding onto a "C". We're doing logarithms now, which is pretty weird stuff lol. Fortunately, I don't have to take Pre-Calculus next year since I'm in construction (construction counts as an "applied math" credit, which counts as one of my four required math credits to graduate.

At my school we need 24 credits to graduate. 4 English credits (English 9, 10, 11, & 12); 4 math credits (mine are Alg. 1, Geometry, Alg. 2, and Applied Math (construction)); 3 science credits (Foundations for Physics, Chemistry 1, and Biology 1); 3 social studies credits (I took World History 1, World History 2, and US History, the latter being required);one credit of gym and one of health (you get 0.25 credits for health and gym each year so a total of 1 credit when you graduate); 0.5 technology credits (I took Basic Robotics); 0.5 Fine Arts credits (I took Foundations of Art); and the rest are electives. My electives are Spanish 1, Spanish 2, Construction, and next year I'm taking Public Speaking, Business Management, and Personal Finance (and maybe one other...)

BTW, I took and posted pics of the new lights on my grandparents' street. When I'm there in warm weather I'll take pics of each one.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 09, 2015, 11:19:31 AM
It does feel "weird" but in my already-weird house fluorescents fit right in!
Yeah it gets less and less use, while LG is exploding with activity! I don't think anyone besides us has posted in this thread in months.  Most posts here I write are oriented toward you more than anyone else, since you're really the only person who reads here (or checks GOL regularly!)
Proofs sucked for me too! I'm 84% right now but 78% is my magic number for an Algebra II percentile most of the time.
Dunno WHAT career I'm getting into yet, things are changing as we speak on a daily basis for me.  If I don't end up running a 72' wood boat (It may sell soon) I'd probably finish high school here, most likely do college in Alaska, then move back to that same area of California.  I've thought about Washington too, being halfway between Alaska and California!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 09, 2015, 02:26:07 PM
The LG is a little too active IMO. I don't know most of the people on there. Here it was a more tightly-knit community and we all knew each other. And here it was pretty much all North American lighting. I don't mean to be a lighting-prejudice but I only take an interest in North American lighting. I don't really have an interest in any other lights or their gear.

84 and 78% of what? ???

Yeah I'm pretty set on being an electrician. I'll pretty much have to settle for a construction career since I've closed my doors on a 4-year college, since I'm not taking the SATs and don't have the right credits to get into a 4-year college.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on March 09, 2015, 10:23:28 PM
Quote from: GEsoftwhite100watts
Today someone on LG posted a way to wire a 2-lamp rapid start ballast as preheat
I'm tempted to try the 1-lamp version that they also posted, using a 1xF40T12 LPF ballast as the 'test victim' since those things suck anyway...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 09, 2015, 11:09:32 PM
LOL we have someone else chiming in for once! Yeah it works pretty well in my experience...although with my 2-lamp-shunted-for-one variant the lamp will also start WITHOUT the starter. I think EOL could be interesting as a result.
Yeah I'm mostly interested in North American stuff too.  I like LG for having lamps dated though. And yeah I know a few people really well: Mike, Darren, and Joe.
@ Mike, Of Algebra II that is. Cool, construction trades sound interesting.  If you change your mind you COULD take the SAT I guess but if you do I'd say sooner than later, I'm a junior and I only recently did, wanting time to be able to take it again if I totally bombed it.
Did some nice outside projects today! Namely tearing down what was left of an old, ugly, very rotten greenhouse blocking an otherwise-nice view, as well as some rotten old scaffolding on the side of the house (THAT was impressive, two pulls with a rope from a safe distance away and down it came!)
And I said I'd keep you updated, sounds like the truck has a wooden bed...interesting...never heard of this feature, unless this is the troop seats...still going to find out more though.

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on March 10, 2015, 03:45:55 PM
What about Alg. 2 though? Is that your grade or something? I've never seen the grade displayed as a decimal. Just as a letter grade or as a fraction out of 100 (which I guess is the same thing as a %). A fraction makes more sense IMO. % would make more since in an application where they're taking a survey on how many kids are passing the class or something lol.

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on March 10, 2015, 07:44:37 PM
Quote from: GEsoftwhite100watts
LOL we have someone else chiming in for once! Yeah it works pretty well in my experience...although with my 2-lamp-shunted-for-one variant the lamp will also start WITHOUT the starter. I think EOL could be interesting as a result.
Its rare that I go in the forums section.. just decided to have a look around last night :)

Interesting that you basically made an 'instant-start' out of that ballast LOL
Somewhere I've got a 2XF40 ballast that doesn't work right, I should dig that thing up and try turning it into a pre-heater...

Quote
Yeah I'm mostly interested in North American stuff too. 
While I like North American I also really like seeing the UK stuff too (and would love to get a bunch of different fluorescents from there)

Quote
@ Mike, Of Algebra II that is.
Algebra..... ooh there's something from a long time ago :o I don't even know if I'd remember how to do that stuff
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 11, 2015, 08:05:28 PM
@Mike, yeah 84% in AlgII right now. 
@XmasLightGuy,Yeah give it a try making it preheat! I have a LPF 2-lamp RS being used that way which normally only lights one lamp for whatever reason.  I wonder if I can run 2 in series again if I heat the cathodes in some other auxillary way? (It trips it's thermal cutout running only one lamp).

Mike, you'll love this: I had a dream last night in which I was being given some fluorescent goodies by the same person who turned me on to all the Mainlighter lamps, gave the that Universal ballast, and has that 10-truck I'm looking into...anyway one of the things in the dream was an 8ft turret shoplight All I ever saw was the reflector (it was disassembled I guess) and I never knew if it was slimline, HO, or VHO, but it was exciting! I woke up and immediately thought of what the lamps could have been LOL. (I thought of 110w Altos even in that groggy half-awake state!)
In all waking seriousness, I may have a chance later this week to go buy some F96T12 lamps for my other four slimline fixtures.  I'd like to install them in my garage but I may need to address the leaking, sagging roof first. 
The only F96 lamps I can get somewhat locally (and what I'd probably thus buy) are "True Value" (GE HL41 Watt-Miser in disguise) 60w ones.  Dim, flickery 60 watters but better than nothing, that's for sure; they give off light and fill the space.  Next time I'll be near a Home Depot or Lowes will likely be for college...though coming home on a break I intend to try to bring some 75w daylight lamps with me for said fixtures. 
Even before those though I intend to buy at least one 2XF32T8 ballast to replace a dead one in a place where having no light is annoying.
You mentioned not doing a 4 year college, don't feel pressured to do anything just yet if you want my advice.  You might find this kinda amusing; yesterday in my mail was a recruitment ad for the Marine Corps and their whole pitch was something to the effect of: Dear high school senior, (They're wrong on my grade level), as you get closer to graduating you may be feeling pressure to decide what path to follow; then the whole thing about becoming a Marine and serving your country, etc.  I personally laughed to be honest...but only because that's not at all what my ideas for after high school are.  I actually would expect a reminder to register for Selective Service within the year more than that ad actually! (I also found it kinda ironic that should show up when I develop an interest in Army/USMC trucks LOL).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 12, 2015, 04:51:20 PM
Ah I see. I have a 56 for a grade this quarter in Algebra 2 right now. :( My cumulative average right now is a 68...

Ah interesting dream! Oddly enough, I rarely dream lighting-related dreams (or at least I don't remember them). Aw man 60W lamps. I guess they're better than no lamps at all... Yeah daylight F96T12s would be nice and vivid. Possibly pick up a pair of 3500K ones too just to have in the collection? 800 Series Triphosphor would be my favorite, though they're probably expensive!

Oh you have a dead T8 ballast? I recall you mentioning it before but I kinda forgot about it lol. I assumed it was fixed by now. I wonder if you can run a couple of F32T8s off of some incandescents (running them in series). It would be incredibly inefficient and wouldn't work well for your uses (since the likely-100W lamp needed to ballast the lamps would be more than enough light on its own probably, though of course it wouldn't be driven at full power.)


UGH. Well , I'm just having the WORST day ever. I'm failing math, I have two research papers to write (in English and in history), and I've never written a "real" research paper before. And on top of that, I asked a girl out and that totally went south. She didn't flat-out say no, but she didn't say yes either. She didn't really give me a direct answer either way. My friends said that that's pretty much another way of saying no... Guys hit on her a LOT and she's pretty popular but she's always been nice to me and I honestly though I had a shot. I guess if you stick your hand in the fire, you should expect to be burned...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 12, 2015, 07:10:34 PM
Wow sounds like you're having a tough time!
I don't mind writing, but I hate having to conform to a topic.
I'd also settle for 3500K slimlines actually, but I like the vivid-ness of daylight lamps. 
I once ran an F32T8 ballasted (as well as a F40T12 and F34T12) with two 100w incandescents in series on 277v.  It was nice and bright...not sure how well it would've held up in longterm use but it was cool! I would've left it set up like that but having a 400w MH ballast being used as a stepup transformer was annoying since it was rather noisy, especially on a MSW inverter.  And it was of course grossly inefficient, drawing probably at least 300w overall!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 12, 2015, 10:53:52 PM
Well I did some lighting rearranging in my work room today.  I ended up making myself a makeshift 3X8 table out of a pair of sawhorses and a couple pieces of scrap plywood.  I need a taller chair though...the main reason I put this thing together was to eliminate bad posture, it's been killing my back lately! Also I can actually spread out a "chart" (nautical "map") to do my homework for my navigation class. As well as work on stuff like 8ft slimline ballast replacements comfortably and photograph lamp etches for dating on LG.  I need a taller chair or shortened legs now though, it's too high!
I hung a clip light with a 23w 2700K spiral above it for now, but I have F40T12 /950 lamps on full power PCB ballasts behind me and off to one side, but not right over.  I'm putting an 8ft slimline right above this, but not right now and I'll likely leave the CFL there anyway for when I want less light.  I should actually put a 5000K one in there come to think of it...or 6500K! (I might just do that!)

The 60w lamps in my slimline should do just fine on the high ceiling where it's practically 80 degrees up there but I still want 75w /950 or daylight anyway. 
So this room is nice and bright! With everything on (haven't really ever done that actually!) it'd be the Sears shoplight with the GE Bonusline ballast and GE Plant & Aquarium lamps, the two 1X4 Metalux/Gibson troffers with GE Chroma 50 lamps and Sylvania Design 50 lamps on vintage Universal Therm-O-Matic and Advance Kool-Koil ballasts, the other Sears shoplight I made preheat with Sylvania cool white plus lamps, and the Metalux 8ft slimline with an Advance 1.25a Mark III and Sylvania 60w supersaver cool white lamps.  (And a 23w spiral). 
I like having lots of light sources and color temp options for a given time, I can choose what I want on at a given time.  Come to think of it I ought to stick that PowerTwist lamp in the preheater since that light is rarely used and said lamp would be displayed.  (Man, those lamps can be conversation starters quite easily, even non-lighting people see those and comment (I showed the ones I got to several people I know while heading home with them and got all sorts of comments ranging from "I see...to get more light!" to "They look fun to smash!" (My dad for that comment LOL).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 13, 2015, 02:12:41 PM
Yeah it's been a crappy past two days for me...

Good luck with the rearranging. I haven't done too much lately to be honest lol. Yeah power-twists sound really cool. I'm honestly not a huge fan of the power-groove lamps though. Not sure why. I just prefer regular linear lamps.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 13, 2015, 08:06:43 PM
Is it because they just look "bizarre" no matter what? That's my only gripe with them too.
Haven't done much? Well I did that, AND did a bunch of outside work...until it started snowing! (Burning a bunch of brush and old rotten 2X4s mainly)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 13, 2015, 08:53:25 PM
Yeah they look odd. Sure they're cool and brighter but I prefer linear lamps (one of the few cases where I don't favor the higher-LPW watt lamp. LPS is another one. I'd rather have "inefficient" MV than efficient LPS because the quality of the LPS light is so awful that it's useless anyways IMO.

Here the opposite has been happening: the 2ft of snow here has actually been MELTING! Quite a few spots here-and-there are grass once again. The giant snow heaps on either side of the end of my driveway have melted down to just 3ft or so (down from 6+ feet) and the snow in my yard has gone down to a few inches (down from 2ft) and in some areas where there were "anti-drifts" (a name I coined for areas where the snow is lower than the rest of the area; the opposite of what a snow drift is) there is just grass. A good portion of my backyard is grass but all the front yard still has snow. It's such a luxury driving on the road and having all that extra lane space! Before this week, the roads were narrow because they weren't plowed curb-to-curb, but now the snow is melted past the curb. I'd gotten so used to narrow roads and obstructed view at intersections (having 6ft+ snow piles at each intersection, thus needing to "creep" out after stopping, as you can't see cross-traffic) that driving now is a breeze. The hardest part is avoiding all the damn potholes. They're EVERYWHERE! Potholes can do some expensive damage to cars too, so you really have to be careful. So I end up riding in the middle of the road when no one is coming from the other way if there's potholes on the side of the road or swerving like a drunk to avoid all the stupid potholes and bumps.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 13, 2015, 09:25:32 PM
OK I just remembered...I had another bizarre dream that involved lighting! It was like one of those house-flipping TV shows, where they were doing light designing.  Anyway "they" went into some lighting store or something (saw lots of 8 foot lamps on display) and got these red incandescent bulbs (picture red ceramic-coated bulbs, but a really dark red, and A19 short neck).  They supposedly put out a full spectrum light? Then the house they were redoing suddenly caught fire and the contractor or whatever started throwing furniture and keepsakes out an upstairs window...weird!
Next part has nothing to do with lighting, but rather, radio! (another hobby of mine!)
Later in the same dream, I was walking up this backcountry road, no doubt somewhere in southeast Alaska judging by the scenery and damp evergreen forest.  And I was going to my Spanish teacher's house or something? (I know, sounds bizarre).  I found this old barn waaay up this hill (a white, paint-peeling, regular-looking cow/horse/hay barn).  Inside was the antenna rig for a low-power FM translator for an NPR station.  It looked like a marine VHF antenna (think car radio antenna but bigger).  It had a cut-out soda/beer can on top and the resonance or whatever of it and other metal things in there was making the station's audio faintly audible in there...(same thing that makes people's tooth fillings make a radio station audible when close to a transmitter).  It was some oldies song, I recongized it but can't remember what it was now.  
How weird! I suppose that could happen in real life, particularly if someone did an unlicensed, illegal, under-the-radar opearation like that in a town like mine...a small transmitter kit and antenna hidden in the attic of a 2-story building on a hill might actually get decent coverage.  

In all seriousness I've thought about what it would take to start a local, somewhat-live, non-NPR commercial radio station where I live that would get decent listenership.  I've bounced this off  my dad and he thinks something with an oldies/classic rock/ format would be a listened-to radio station here.  Rather, I'd do a "mix" format of many types of music...a "set" could look something like...lemme think about this.
Berlin-the Metro (80s new wave)
Fuel-Hemmorhage (2000s post grunge)
Alice in Chains-Down in a hole (90s grunge)
Kelly Clarkson-Hearbeat song (current top 40)
Eminem-Till i collapse (2000s rap)
Rascal Flats-What hurts the most (2000s country)
Van Halen-When it's love (80s classic rock)
Corey Hart-Sunglasses at night (80s classic rock)
Foo Fighters-Learn to fly (90s alternative)
Alice in Chains-Stone (2013 hard rock)
Nine Inch Nails-Terrible Lie (90s alternative)
Depeche Mode-Personal Jesus (80s new wave)
Gordon Lightfoot-Wreck of the Edmund Fizgerald (70s classic rock)
...you get the idea.  In any major city I bet a radio format like this would never fly but in a place like this I picture it being at least somewhat successful in the absence of anything else that plays music most hours of the day.  You might notice how many of these songs aren't totally played out on the radio, either...something else that I think would increase listenership.  (PS, how many of these songs I listed did you recognize)? That took me a whole 2 minutes to think that "set" up.  
It'd have to start small, with a small signal and this very limited reception (enough to cover my town; a couple square miles) but I think it could easily expand if it really took off to include other less-populated areas around me...I can think of a few a good signal could theoretically cover, one in particular about 30 miles away (but getting scratchy/staticky by them if it was FM which it would be).  In that case it may seem like I'd be broadcasting to wilderness and ocean but there's a lot of fishing activity here and many small fishing boats have FM radios on them.  (The wheelhouse of the boat I run is done with a nice Clarion marine-grade "aftermarket car stereo" type tuner.  It has stellar reception IMO, with a VHF radio antenna used.  (Shared with a VHF using a "cable TV splitter" looking band seperator.  (VHF is Very High Frequency FM).  Also has excellent AM reception.  With said antenna 30-ish feet in the air (could even be like 50 feet) you can hear Sitka's relatively small (3600w ERP) NPR radio station pretty clearly quite a way out of there! (Granted, me being a person who can stand listening to somewhat-staticky/weak radio stations).  
And where I live there's nothing on the AM dial easily picked up during the daylight hours...but with that particular setup I can hear a LOT of stations even during the day! If the boat sells I'd like to transfer that setup over to my house, though I don't know how well it would turn out since my house has tons of fluorescents, (including CFLs, which are horrible for AM radio period) as well as other electronics that make "noise".  (My 12v>120v inverter is the worst offender, that noise gets into a hardwired telephone line by being near romex wires carrying power from said source).  But I'd like to have such a setup, being a radio listener even in these days of Pandora and iTunes LOL.
That house in Atascadero had EXCELLENT FM reception, being on a hill facing several well-populated areas.  A good antenna would have made it even better...the whole FM dial probably would've been full.  On the fourth floor you could pick up all sorts of stuff!
Yeah, I like brighter period unless it's a "warm" color.
My first winter in Alaska (2008-09) was a big snow year, we had 10+ feet at that house, where it slid off the roof.  It required a LOT of shoveling on the 1000 feet or so of boardwalk going up there from the main turnoff, which was usually plowed but we sometimes had to shovel too. Each year since has been much less so far. 
Yeah you must like it better driving without snow.  Does RI just have poorly-maintained roads or is this all from frost action? (I know a case of some frost-lifted pavement on a major highway, the three "bumps" aren't that obvious and there's a sign saying "dips" or whatever but if someone unfamiliar with the area hits those at 50MPH it's quite a ride in the standard minivan or compact car or 3/4 ton pickup.  Local drivers know to slow waaay down in that spot (there's hardly any traffic on that road so it's safe to do so). 
Still not as bad as a school bus at 40MPH or whatever on an unpaved, rocky (same highway, but under construction) road for several miles...that was the bumpiest ride I can think of. 
That house I lived in in Atascadero was on an unpaved road, (and had a 37% grade driveway) and it was always interesting how people thought of it on their first time up there.  People's newer, fancier cars had the low traction alarms go off on that driveway! The garbage truck also had to back out 1/4 mile! (beep beep beep the whole way).  Despite likely never seeing it again, I've often thought about how possible it would be to get a Deuce up and down that road on a daily/multiple times a day basis...the neighbors might have come unglued though.  (This was already one of those roads where you're driving up there and a neighbor's car comes down the road and passing is really hard (again, with "normal" cars).  Much less the UPS truck LOL. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on March 13, 2015, 09:35:21 PM
I love PowerTwists & PowerGrooves just because they're unusual & weird shaped (plus PG has the added thing of being a T17)

I also like SOX/LPS probably mainly  because it is so rare here.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on March 13, 2015, 09:43:42 PM
I only listen to regular FM radio when in the car.

If I listen to radio at home its FM...but various stations HD-2 channels. Thing is during the day my fluorescents tend to kill the signal.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 13, 2015, 09:49:33 PM
Yeah I've heard some bad things about "HD" radio, especially AM.  With HD FM, how bad is the interference on adjacent channels from the HD2 stations? With bad reception I assume it just reverts back to analog audio? (If so, is it still in (albeit hissy) stereo?
I notice some stations have much nicer audio processing than others, on some the stereo signal overmodulates or whatever onto other channels.  Or just plain "dirty" transmitters...I knew a case where on cheap radios a 3600w NPR station (broadcasting in mono, that's sorta rare, but common in Alaska it seems) overpowering a 3100w station on 103.1, but only on cheap radios...on a good tuner the 103.1 could be heard, even in stereo, with no issues at all.
BTW Xmaslightguy, any cool fluorescent finds lately?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on March 13, 2015, 10:29:56 PM
I don't notice any issues with interference on adjacent FM channels from the 'HD' signals (might be interesting with one of those cheap little radios, but I'm sure the stations here would not be able to get by with any 'dirty' transmissions, there's just too many other stations/people in the broadcast area/etc they would get complaints.)
I don't listen to anything AM since its mono, and because especially during the day the signal'd be killed anyway (electronic ballasts & radio don't like eachother LOL )

With even somewhat-marginal reception(really takes very little to kill the signal, but could also be because of where I live) it does just revert back to analog (so you lose the HD-1, HD-2, etc (HD-1 is same as the normal broadcast just digital, HD-2 if a station does it is a second totally different stream, usually no commercials :) ))
Or you'll get nights where the signal is marginal enough so the tuner still "sees it" but it cuts in and out (very annoying when listening to HD-2)

A station in the 3kw range would never make it here .lol. , I believe most are in the 50kw-100kw range. (i think I heard the 'HD' addon part of the signal is limited to something like 1/100th of that total power)
One thing I can say about the HD thing is "it sounds like a MP3" atleast to me)


Digital TV has annoying things too - there's no static, but that means you either get a picture/sound, or you don't, or it spits & sputters/is totally un-watachable (I wish TV could revert back to analog, even if it meant the picture was in low-def)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on March 13, 2015, 10:44:11 PM
With lights...
I've found a few small things, but no real cool stuff.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 14, 2015, 12:15:14 AM
So lemme get this straight...HD2 reverts back to "analog1"? That would be irritating...two different songs clipping in and out!
The "dirty" station was in a town of 8000-10,000 people too! (in a downtown area too with lots of radios I'm sure). 
Ever heard of C-QUAM AM stereo? I'm told it sounds as good if not better than FM stereo but I've never had the chance to hear it.  One radio station I'm on the fringe of (800Mhz KINY, Juneau, AK) (Fun fact: first radio station in Alaska, first air date 1935!) apparently broadcasts in C-QUAM AM stereo but I have no radios capeable of decoding/using the stereo signal and I live on the fringe of it anyway, it only barely comes in, and even then only after sundown. 
Do any FMs where you live broadcast in mono? The local NPR station (Sitka, AK) does (same "dirty" station) but another one I'm on the fringe of (KFSK-FM, Petersburg, AK) has a translator (the one I'm on the fringe of, I'm out of range of the actual station) broadcasts in stereo! (And their music programming is much better too, so it's a good thing they do!).  But since I'm on the edge of their reception any radio switches in/out of stereo...there's a noticeable difference between noisy stereo and quiet mono, that's how to tell on some, and on others the "ST"(ereo) light would flash on and off. 
With "It sounds like an MP3" is it in stereo? (I assume so).
OK with some newer cars/radios...I see normal FM stations I always listened to on normal radios with analog or very basic digital tuning would broadcast song info, etc...is that on a HD radio?
I know AM stations with HD can't broadcast in stereo too, but can FM stations also do stereo?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on March 14, 2015, 01:40:33 PM
Actually HD2/HD3 will cut in & out between music and silence .. if the signal is lost for too long, then it just reverts back to analog (and stays).

Yep I've heard of AM stereo, but sadly have never seen a receiver or tuner capable or receiving it.


I'm pretty sure all the FM stations here broadcast in stereo.
I'm listining to stations for the Denver-area, so they're broadcasting for an area with couple million people.
I live fairly close to the mountains, so I'm probably closer to the transmitters than someone that actually lives in the city... but also mountains being what they are also block signals, so for some stations I'm on the fringes.
On my home reciever the 'stereo' light goes out, it also cuts out the sound. (can be set to do mono & it won't cut the sound even if its static-y)
(don't remember for sure, but I believe my HD tuner does the same as what I mentioned with analog if it doesn't 'see' a clean/stereo signal)

Yep the FM HD2's are in stereo even with the station being stereo (I AM-HD's can do stereo, but as you mentioned the analog can't be stereo of they do HD).
I tried today, and got an AM to come in with HD (shocked! especially being daytime & the lights on) .. the difference in sound is quite noticeable, and it is stereo!
by 'sounds like a MP3', I mean  you know how a low-bitrate MP3 can sound sorta garbled - very much the same effect... varies from station to station, and also depends on how many HD-subchannels they have (more subchannels=less quality, since there is the same limited bandwidth to fit more, they have to lower the quality/bitrate of each)

The thing you see on allot of newer car-radios where they give artist/title/etc is 'RDS' (Radio Data System) the audio is still analog.

Your town of 8k-10k people .. guess I'd call that a mid-sized city :)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 14, 2015, 02:04:46 PM
Interesting.  Yeah it's a mid-sized city, though where I live is "tiny" (official population 45).
I have some F32T8 fixtures that make horrible "hash" even on FM! (can be almost unlistenable!)
I think I'm gonna try hardmounting an 8ft slimline later this weekend.  I think I'll remove the ballast first then reinstall it once the fixture is up.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on March 14, 2015, 07:42:59 PM
45 .. that makes me think of some of those little mountain towns here.

Some fixtures are deff worse than others on causing 'noise' like that. I know somewhere I've got a T5 one that was causing some issues.

Those 8-footers are a pain to put up by yourself...taking the ballast out would probably make it allot easier . lol
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 14, 2015, 08:22:00 PM
Actually my (modified-sine-wave) inverter is the worst noisemaker on the radio (my house doesn't have city power; it's off-grid).  I might add the claim fluorescents won't work on one of those is not true; I've done it for years although LPF rapid/trigger start (2-lamp F20T12 or those cheap LPF shoplights and wraparounds) are noticeably dimmer and all ballasts (magnetic or electronic) buzz louder. 
I think I might do that then. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on March 14, 2015, 08:45:40 PM
 off-grid & using an inverter .. are you running on solar then?

With fluorescents on an inverter, I thought it was "some electronic ballasts won't run on those" ?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 14, 2015, 08:55:23 PM
I wish, but not yet.  I run a gas generator to charge a 12v battery bank and run the house when it's going (inverter is also a charger w/ built-in transfer relay). 
I've heard the same thing a million times..."CFLs won't work".  I guess it's hit-and-miss but I've had good luck running mine on MSW.  I guess it depends on the brand.  I mainly use 13w GE spirals, but I have a few other types as well.  I think the next thing will be 5000K screw-in LEDs though, although all the linear fluorescents and HIDs are staying as they are!
I personally like the concept of all these new LED 4' shoplights, etc. but will take my 1970s shoplights with F40T12 lamps and HPF magnetic rapid start ballasts and wide, thick metal reflectors over those any day.  Same for 8' slimlines...I really really wanted one of those for a LONG time, then now I have five of them! (Just need eight more lamps). 
But I've run everything from spiral CFLs all the way up to an 8ft slimline on a MSW inverter...though the slimline is pretty loud on that electricity...I do wonder if lamp life on magnetic ballasts would be affected though?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on March 14, 2015, 10:18:01 PM
Sounds like a neat setup :)

How lamp life is affected would be an interesting thing to see.
I'd think on a HPF ballast it probably wouldn't make much difference (capacitor I imagine would 'clean up' the power a bit, like it does with fluctuations in voltage) LPF on the other hand might be affected...

Cool that everything you've tried so far has worked without a problem 8)

I'm just on normal/grid power, but I'd love to run all my aquarium/plant lights on solar.

I have nothing against LEDs (and even like some of the stuff), but I know there's also allot of very poorly/cheaply made LED crap out there that gives all a bad name.
Like you I have no plans to be changing out any of my linear fluorescents (or anything else). Anything LED i do would be an addition.

I've always liked the 8-foot slimline fixtures, and when I was young wanted one...Now I have extras just sitting around unused because I got them either free or real cheap.
If you have a Lowes store near you, check there for slimline lamps, they have a better selection of colors -- everyone else just seems to have 4100k
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 14, 2015, 10:58:09 PM
Yeah HPF still seems to "like" that inverter electricity better for sure!
Ever heard of those grid-tie solar systems? They're really popular in California, they're practically everywhere!
Yeah cheap LEDs give them a bad name...the thing I find most irritating about them though is that 60Hz flicker some cheap ones have (not NEARLY as bad as those half-wave Christmas lights, but still horrible). 
Actually the one thing in my house that HAS been cooked by that inverter is a regular TRIAC rotary dimmer switch...it now just turns on/off like a regular light switch...and guess what? Because of that I'm now using a CFL in that light with absolutely no problems!
I don't have a Lowes but the next time I'm in the 70-miles-away True Value I think I'll get some 60w "True Value" (GE HL41 Watt-Miser in disguise) 4100K lamps to fill the space...if I get to the 200-mile-away Home Depot I'll likely get some Daylight Deluxe Altos to replace the 60 watters...daylight is my favorite color anyway, maybe since I grew up around all incandescent and cool white and want something different:) But 90CRI 5000K would be pretty neat too, that's the other favorite fluorescent color of mine despite being inherently flickery on magnetic ballasts and dimmer than cool white. 

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on March 15, 2015, 03:58:56 PM
Yep I've heard of those grid-tie solar systems. lol .at the thought of the electric meter spinning backwards.

Allot of times I can 'just see'  the 60hz flicker in half-wave Christmas lights without needing to move them around. If they do them as  full-wave its allot less noticeable (would be like the cheap LED bulbs/fixtures)

Dimmer switch LOL . its the most basic thing that fries, instead of the "not supposed to work" fluorescents!

Wow, I don't think I could live with stores being that far away :o .. but I'm spoiled living in suburbs/not too far from city things. I only ever remember seeing 4100k T12 & T8 slimlines at Home Depot. Daylight Deluxe Alto's (the 4-footers atleast) seem like decent lamps, along with being a nice color. The only T12 5000k lamps I truly like were Philips Ultralume...such a nice "clean" white, and bright too :cool:
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 15, 2015, 07:32:30 PM
yeah I can see it too just looking at them and while I don't get migranes it's still irritating to me.
Yeah it is kinda ironic LOL.
Yeah I actually LIKE those green endcaps!
OK...I think I may have finally had the C-QUAM AM stereo experience last night...I was late-night DXing as I often do and heard a station whose audio would "clip" just like on FM stereo with a weak signal...any ideas! I know it's a station who does transmit in stereo, so...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on March 15, 2015, 09:37:56 PM
I don't get migraines from lights, even the half-wave LEDs...its weather changes (change in air-pressure)  that does it for me. every now & then there'll be one that actually makes me sick.

When it comes to half-wave xmas LEDs, I figure they are only up for a month... so I just let them be (I know how to convert to full-wave, but doing a bunch of sets would be _very_ time consuming)

Allot of people seem to hate the green endcaps, as with you I like them! They would look awesome if Philips still made 'green' lamps!

Interesting!
There was a time years ago I could get a FM station in all the way from Wyoming (usually required fooling around with the wire I used for an antenna) don't remember if I ever got stereo, but I may have at times.
These days no chance of getting anything but the local stations.

Listening to AM in stereo is kinda weird, just don't expect that from AM...I let one of the 2 stations that does HD run for a few minutes. Still I'm on the fringe of the HD signal (most I saw was 3 of 5 bars .. and the HD cuts in & out so it goes from the better sounding & stereo HD to normal mono analog AM quality.
It'd be interesting to hear an AM analog stereo broadcast.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 16, 2015, 02:59:46 PM
I HATE the flicker from LED Christmas lights. With Halloween lights it doesn't bother be as much since Halloween is a spooky and eerie  holiday. But Christmas is supposed to have a sense of warmth, which LED lack. I think the lack of radiant heat from LEDs actually makes them seem like a "cold" light source. Lighting has an effect on the body (our biological clock evolves around the color temperature and intensity of light (sunlight), but with artificial light, our biological clocks get screwed up. Scientists are doing studies to find out why there's a sleep epidemic now and why everyone is tired 24/7 and it has a lot to do with newer lighting sources and backlit electronic devices. The chemical serotonin is produced by the body in the presence of light. However, it can only be produced properly in full-spectrum light. HID, fluorescent, and LED lighting is not full-spectrum. Of course, aside from LED, those lighting technologies have been around for decades but people don't out outside as much now, and inside people's homes, incandescents were typically used, which provide natural full-spectrum light.

And yes, I hate those stupid green ends too, not really because of the fact that the ends are green, but because Philips is just doing that to call attention to their lamps. "Oh green ends, it's a Philips lamp!" It's just an attention-getting gimmick. And yeah, the green ends look ridiculous in a nice vintage fixture. They look fine in a modern fixture though.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 17, 2015, 07:40:52 PM
My mom used to get migranes though I don't really remember what the trigger(s) were and can't ask her as she's passed away now. 
Vintage analog tuners can be much more selective than even digital IMO if you get a good one...the reception and seletivity between stations is impressive, especially in a well-populated area with lots of stations (Atascadero, CA is like that; that vintage GE flip-digit clock-radio did really well as far as selectivity between stations on a crowded dial was concerned, and the reception was also superior (It would pull in stations pretty clearly that other radios only faintly picked up, if at all).  With vintage tuner/amplifiers, antennas are everything for FM.  My godparents had (and probably/hopefully still have) a 1978 JVC tuner/amplifier/turntable/cassette deck and when I fired it up to mess with it one day a couple years ago it had no antenna except the terminal screws where you'd hook one up and thus only picked up one or two stations that were really local though (Don't remember specifically which radio stations they were, I just went up and down the dial a few times though I do remember hearing part of one of those McDonald's "The front desk said "Anything we can do to make your morning better" commercials in the middle of a dial full of mostly static.  I'm going to ask them about that thing next time I talk with them, as well as the M-400A I think (Though I'd rather the tuner over the streetlight any day of the week)
It annoys me too, but I've gotten used to it seeing as I see them all day every day at my house, running 24/7 as a nightlight at night and an accent light during the day. 
It makes sense that newer light sources would feel "cold".  But I like my daylight fluorescents anyway!
I think the green ends look neat in even vintage fixtures, what I don't like seeing are those ugly green etches on GE and Sylvania lamps, those look ugly in older fixtures IMO.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 18, 2015, 11:37:24 PM
OK, I swear ever since mentioning it I've been having some sort of lighting dream every night!
This one involved my dad somehow obtaining two of those DuroTest AT-shaped lamps...which I happen to be a fan of myself.  Anyway there was one clear one and one inside-frost version.  I sorta remember commenting "Where'd you find these?" or something to that effect...
Maybe it's  because there's been a lot of talk on LG about those lamps lately LOL. 
I might get a chance to obtain some more vintage lamps myself soon! Inter alia a post-mainlighter, pre-meatball GE F40CW, some shatter-shield (Sylvania?) 34w cool whites, at least one Ecolux 25w shoplite lamp, and a couple Sylvania GTE F40/CWs, though one is pretty blackened/EOL looking.  Might even get a preheat sign light...we'll see!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on March 19, 2015, 08:13:52 PM
@Mike:
Thinking of LED Xmas lights and looking 'cold' .. I like the cool-white ones for that very reason - they look cold/ice/winter-ish! (ofcourse depends on where you're putting them, the 'cold-look' just doesn't fit right on some things)

I've never seen a Ecolux 25w shoplite lamp. Didn't know such even existed.


@GEsoftwhite100watts:
Sorry to hear about your mother :(
Yeah, some of those old analog radios/tuners could really pick up stations. (plus they were built to last forever).
Thinking of radio stuff.. somewhere I've got a boombox (or as they called them back when I was young - ghetto-blaster :lol: ) that in addition to the standard AM/FM, it has 2 bands of ShortWave! In a way I'd love to find a modern/digital SW tuner, but the type that'd connect/fit with a normal stereo system.
I occasionally get "light dreams", sometimes good ones, sometimes bad ones.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 19, 2015, 11:09:00 PM
LOL yeah built to last forever!
Yeah I wanna say I've seen those too...or maybe it was just a really large table radio...
Ever heard of a GE "SuperRadio"?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 19, 2015, 11:49:12 PM
On and BTW Mike, remember that dead T8 ballast? Well it started working again, totally randomly! That thing is a total crackup!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 20, 2015, 06:06:19 AM
My grandpa has two GE 25W shoplite lamps running in one of his wraps in the basement with a 0.73A Mark-something ballast. They seem pretty bright when run on a "real" ballast.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 20, 2015, 11:28:31 AM
"real" ballast...LOL yeah! They'll work just fine, but last a whopping 6000 hours, which even in itself isn't bad LOL.
I don't have any 25w lamps just yet but I doubt I'm really missing much of anything. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 20, 2015, 08:16:55 PM
6000 hours? Those lamps he's got in his basement are as old as I am! (well, they're pre-EcoLux anyway). Granted the fixture isn't used a lot but they've lasted quite a while evidently.

I don't have any 25W lamps yet either. I don't even know where to get them since I don't see them sold locally here. I'm assuming the 25W GEs probably came out of an LOA shoplight or something. Those pre-EcoLux GE tubes really lasted a long time. He's got some Watt-Miser F34T12s in the troffers at his shop that still work! (well, one or two...) At his house, he's got almost all Altos. The original lamps were all May 1996 no-name Philips made F40/CW/EW 34W lamps. They're Philips because the font is the same as the thin-etched Philips lamps and the date code style is the same. Not to mention they're "EW" lamps, which was the suffix used for Econ-o-watt tubes.

Other lamps down there are Philips Altos (40W CWP, 40W /DX, and CWS) and Philips non-Alto 5000K 40W lamps. There's one SLi Lighting F40/CWX in one of the troffers. The lamp was originally from the single lamp strip I had in my collection that I mounted over their sink in the basement, but for some reason I stuck the lamp in one of the troffers and now the single lamp F40/ERS strip light (Cooper Metalux from Lowe's with a GE ERS ballast) has a 5000K "full mercury" Philips 40W lamp.

Ah the ballast came back from the dead? Sounds like a bad solder joint inside the case or something. The original three 2006 GE SPX35 lamps in my Lithonia parabolic troffer are still holding up, though I noticed one of them tends to start dim and flickery in the middle like Sylvania lamps (though very subtle; just slightly dimmer than the other two). It warms up like the others within 30 seconds to a minute. It's got slightly more blackening than the other two so perhaps it's getting near the end. When it dies I will probably move it to the center (the lamp is on one of the sides) to make the fixture symmetrical until a second lamp dies since I have to buy lamps by the pair anyway (unless I buy a single Sylvania F32T8/835 from Benny's). When the time comes to replace the lamps, I'm debating whether to use 3500K lamps as replacements or using three new 5000K lamps. I'm definitely not mixing color temps and I want to keep the original lamps in the fixture as long as they continue to work, so I'll probably just buy new GE SPX35s to match the originals. Will be interesting to see the 2006 GE SPX35s compared to a 2015 or 2016 GE SPX35 (or whenever the original lamps die).

A few months ago the GE SPX35s were dropping like flies in the Votech building but no recent lamp EOLs for a couple of months now. The remaining working ones don't seem to have a ton of blackening either. Very weird that some lamps are jet black while others aren't visibly that worn (visible wear, but the whole end isn't black). Once a couple more lamps die I'll ask the secretary to let a custodian know that the hallway outside my construction shop is pretty dark. I'm waiting until more lamps die since they will only spot-relamp, and I want the color temperatures to match in each fixture if possible. I don't mind different fixtures having different color temperatures but randomly-arranged color temperatures will bug me lol. The lamps they use are /741 Sylvanias, so they're lower CRI and lower lumens than the SPX35s.

In the hallway for my construction shop, there are six troffers (18 lamps total). Three lamps are emergency lamps, and thus normally off, so I will not count those. That said, that leaves 15 lamps. 5 lamps out of the 15 are dead. Two fixtures of the six have all three lamps working, one has all lamps dead, two have two lamps out, and one has one lamps out. The fixture with all three lamps out and the two fixtures with two lamps out are the three emergency fixtures. I noticed one lamp in the "public" part of the hall (the part to our construction shop is closed off by double-doors, so we consider it "our" hallway lol) has a lamp that's totally broken off on the end. When they finally relamp the fixture they're in for a surprise when that lamp falls to the ground (its got one lamp working, one's a emergency lamp "EL" and then the broken one is dead obviously). Right now the parabolic grate is the only thing holding the lamp in place. It's the only lamp I've noticed there with a cracked lamp.

One of the wrap lights in a bathroom in the main building (it's a single lamp unit) had a missing diffuser and at the beginning of the week, the Sylvania /741 had died. And recently, I noticed the lamp had been removed from the fixture. So now it's been reduced to a lampless, diffuserless fixture lol. I think I'll tell the secretary on Monday (I'm friendly with her since I do the morning announcements every morning for the school).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 20, 2015, 08:55:33 PM
Depends I guess.  Personally I think the whole "shoplite" idea (lamps and their respective underpowering ballasts) was pointless anyway, all those ballasts did was ruin the reputation of fluorescent lighting, particularly in household use! And I guess there's 40w shoplites too.  I have a pair of Sylvania "Workshop F40" lamps somewhere in my collection of 4-footers that blatantly say 40w IIRC yet say "Avg. Life 12,000 hours" so my theory is that there was originally an "economy" grade 40w with a lesser life rating but I wonder if using them on HPF, commercial, full-power ballasts will reduce their lifetime? (I've had them on both a Benchlite LPF and later an .8 amp HPF Universal Therm-O-Matic and they did fine either way, as far as I could tell, but I wonder).  I think after EPACT in the mid 90s they started calling them 25w so in theory they'd only be "compatible" with those LPF residential rapid start ballasts so a "residential" F40CW could be still made (It's well known they still employed the old school halophosphate, 62-CRI cool white phosphor, not /741 triphosphor).  I think now they are 87CRI CWX or whatever though since last time I was in Spenard's (Which was months ago now) I saw some 25w 4' Sylvanias that had a "F25T12/CWX" ordering code, but made no mention of residential use or do-not-use-on-ballasts-marked (E) or whatever. 
Another thing I find laughable about the whole 25w-shoplite-lamp labeling gimmick: The HPF ballasts in two of my Sears shoplights, as well as my two Metalux/Gibson troffers, which are suspended like shoplights so they count as such, have pre-EPACT, some even full power and PCB, "commercial" ballasts...so "technically" I could use a 25w lamp on those ballasts and be mystified by the short lifetime LOL. 
This is the basement where the stand-up freezer shocked you right? How old are the troffers?
Does the ERS ballast "rapid start"? If I get to a Home Depot I might get some of those non-Alto 5000K "C50 Supreme" lamps, I hear good things about 5000K UltraLume from Xmaslightguy...apparently they're nice and bright unlike other /950s which are inherently kinda dim. 
Speaking of dim high-CRI daylight lamps...I did what I've threatened to do for some time now and I stuck my remaining PowerTwist lamp in service.  It's currently in the rapid-start-cum-preheat Sears shoplight.  It looks strange seeing a 70s rapid start fixture with one lamp lit fully, but it's two ballasts and I wanted to be able to experience the unique 5500K 91CRI Vita-Lite by itself instead of next to some other lamp of a totally different color.  Also the other ballast is a thermal cycler, so it's better to not use it anyway.  (I wonder if it will still overheat and cycle with it's lamp missing?).  The PowerTwist is burning off mercury condensation currently, it looks like it has nice end banding but that' actually not the case...at least I don't think it'll go starved anytime soon.  Looks like a Mainlighter or pre-EcoLux Watt-Miser (GE) lamp in terms of mercury content! It's relatively dim though on that LPF residential ballast (I bet a 34w cool white would be brighter).  I'd like to transfer it over to a ballast that drives it harder eventually though, but something single-lamp or 3-lamp (some odd number).  I would stick it in the center of the 3-lamper but I don't want the shunted ballast instant-starting a relatively rare, out-of-production, not-that-many-made anyway lamp. (And I just don't feel like putting it in the other power-twist's "place of death". (It randomly lost vacuum one day).  Granted, preheat use is harder than rapid start, and this light does get switching cycles a lot.  But life's short and I'd rather see it in use and eventually reaching EOL than falling over and breaking during an earthquake or something.  (Although I had a bunch of F40s, though a fraction of what I have now, survive a magnitude 7.5 earthquake and 5.2 aftershock and WEEKS of little shakers afterward unscathed, just leaning up in corners, etc). 
I'm thinking bad solder joint too.  The SPX35 in the bathroom light has a teardrop brown spot on one end, but is otherwise new-looking.  Same for the GE Mainlighter next to it, only minor banding it already had (Also run on the electronic IS F32T8 ballast).  The original SP35s in the kitchen lights are well-blackened and the cement holding the endcaps is failing (You can see it on the diffusers of the wraparound fixtures they're in) but they still work! When the one in the bathroom light finally quit after being jet black on both ends for months, it was an interesting failure: it started going mercury starved like one of yours is doing, to the point it was almost "off" in the middle, but would still warm up to "normal" brightness.  The ballast it was on has only 560v OCV though so finally it got to a point (I guess the emitter was really depleted) that it would "dim-glow" purplish, kinda like you see with a failed 4' rapid start or 8' slimline lamp sometimes, then finally light with much struggling.  It finally died totally and lost vacuum with all sorts of burnt carnage inside on the "bad" end from the arc attacking the electrode seals. 
Two more SP35s in an identical light in the garage still look brand-new since they're hardly EVER used and that light/lamps was put in later, though they're all from the same time. 
I'm also going to put a 6500K CFL right over my chart table tomorrow to compliment the /950s and VitaLite PowerTwist in here.
LOL I'd be curious to see just how dark they let it get in there, and then you'd have more of the same color temp anyway. For yours I like 5000K so I'd do that...but spot-replacing with Sylvania /835 is something I'd do too LOL. (Or just use an F40T12, they work fine, just slightly underpowered, I'm doing that).
Someone (I think it was Aaron/Alights) was saying they read some study someplace that about 1% of T8 lamps crack at EOL during vacuum loss.  I saw a dead GE Ecolux SP41 in an Ace Hardware in Atascadero that was about to fall out, and it was in a turret industrial in the garden center area! (Well not the outdoor section, but where pots, etc were sold). Maybe GEs are the worst for cracking at EOL.
Nice that you're friends with the secretary! Do you enjoy doing announcements? Are you on student council or something?
If you go to a university with a radio station, have you thought about working there then? 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 20, 2015, 09:40:35 PM
I might also add that we just added another battery to my house battery bank.  Now there's three instead of two...we'll see how much capacity increases! (It's a used battery, that was taken out because it was lasting noticeably not as long as it used to, but sat for over a year and was still at 12.3v (12v battery) after sitting for over a year, so we hooked it back up...this is more capacity than we've had before and I'm curious how much more capacity it will give, as well as charging time needed.  (Common sense suggests 50% more but we'll see). I'd really like to NOT have to go outside without being dressed on a cold morning to start my generator first thing before the batteries die!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 21, 2015, 03:57:38 PM
Yeah I don't really like shoplites either, nor do I like the two lamp NPF ballasts. I don't mind single lamp NPF fixtures, since generally they're just used in area like closets or whatever but I have a strong dislike for NPF two lamp ballasts, both F14/15/20 and F30/40. The Workshop lamps were designed with cheaper electrodes to make the lamps easier to start on cheaper ballasts and to make the lamps cheaper. Of course with cheaper quality electrodes come shorter life. :-\ See, the problem with residential grade fluorescents is that homeowners want fluorescent lighting but are too cheap to buy good stuff, so manufacturers sell inexpensive pieces of junk to shut up the homeowners who want lower cost fluorescent lighting. The cost of "real" fluorescent fixtures turns most home owners away from fluorescents. No, the Workshop lamps are fine on HPF full-power ballasts, but I wouldn't use 25W lamps...

No, those troffers you have are not shoplites. Just because they're suspended doesn't make them shoplights. (even if they were in a shop, they'd be "shop lights" not shoplites.) Shoplites have cords on them and are residential grade fixtures. Yep, the basement with the shocky fridge lol. The troffers and two wraps are the same age as the original lamps: 1996. They have Advance Mark-something ballasts (Mark IV I think; they're 0.73A with the later style label). They're pretty loud too. When you turn them on they go "MMMMUUUUUUUUUUUUU" (sound changes after the lamps come on). There are no labels on the troffers IIRC. I couldn't find a manufacturing label anywhere on the fixtures. The strip I added is a later is from around 2010-ish. I had bought it at Lowe's for my collection. My grandma mentioned that there wasn't a lot of light over the sink in the basement where she washes out the cats' litter boxes so I gave it to them and my grandpa and I installed it sideways on a stud over the sink. It's got a cord on it for them to plug it in. Unfortunately I didn't put a pull-chain switch on it before (we couldn't find one that would fit right) so they just plug it in and unplug it when they use it. My grandpa has used up the remaining lamps in the last case of lamps he bought so he will be buying a new case next time I relamp. Sometimes he relamps and other times I do it. At his shop, I pretty much do all the relamping since he doesn't have time. The only place he always relamps immediately is the spray booth, as that room cannot have any shadows or dark spots, or else the paint might not come out right.


Nope the ERS ballast usually instant start IIRC (ERS is electronic RS in case; just a term I coined if you couldn't figure out what I meant lol). I think the lamp might come on dim and then flash bright after a split-second or so, but it's nothing like a HPF RS ballast. It's actually really weird having a T12 on an electronic ballast. Like an electronic HID. "Something just ain't right here" lol. What's the difference between the Philips C50 Supremes and the Ultralume 5000s?

Hey, you know what? Better to enjoy the lamp then just hang on to it forever and new use it, especially since you said it might end up broken anyway. I plan to use up most of the lamps in my collection too, but I will hang onto the rarer ones. Speaking of changing things, I replaced the light in my bedroom today. I was really bored today so I took down the 100W MV M-250A and put up the 100W HPS (70/90W) M-250R from 1981, wired at the 90W tap. I'm using a 90s GE lamp and a 1980 Fisher Pierce in the fixture, with tape over the PC window so it doesn't turn off the light indoors.

If that ballast still trips the thermal protection with no lamp, then the primary coil is bad. The secondary coil is open-circuit with the lamp removed, so it won't even be energized. That's why the 4ft ballasts still make noise when the lamp is removed, whereas a preheat choke will not make any noise when the lamp is removed.

Yeah the lamp in mine is still going strong, just slightly dimmer in the middle. IDK the OCV of the Sylvania quicktronic offhand but I think it's decent. T12s will not fit in the troffer since the troffer is too low-profile. :( Otherwise I'd convert it to F40/RS lol. I could convert it to T8RS but I don't have a single lamp T8RS ballast (I do have a two-lamp Advance T8RS ballast from Aaron though. It's NOS but has short leads). I've actually never used the ballast I got from Aaron. When it got it, I just wrapped up the leads and stuck it with the others.

Yeah I like the morning announcements, but the kids at the school don't like us since we like to goof off lol. We get hate mail on Twitter lol. We have "Pun-Day Monday" when one of my co-announcers Megan says a corny pun over the intercom. We also have a "Frivolous Fact Friday", when I read a random fact no one really cares about lol. We were doing "Wake-Up Wednesdays", where we blast 10 seconds of a song over the air but that kinda fell through. We save music for special occasions lol.

Ah good luck with that added battery!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 21, 2015, 04:25:59 PM
I like vintage shoplights, but don't care so much for the modern ones (Although I always take up the chance to get one!)
Now I see why the smaller electrodes make sense! But still...I wonder how one would last on preheat?
I have an Advance 2-lamp-but-wired-for-one ERS ballast in use too, it's wiring is identical to it's magnetic conterparts.  It does nothing for the first fraction of a second then instant-starts as far as I can tell.  It lives in a single-lamp Lithonia vaportight fixture that originally came from a junk store but had a 277v ballast so I had to change it out for a 120v unit.  It runs a "Buyer's Choice" (Sylvania) F40CWX.
I'm gonna try to get that Philips Lite White 34w lamp I mentioned somewhere on here too. 
Hate mail....#IHateMike or something? LOL
I know I mentioned my idea for a radio station a page or so ago here on this thread...how do you think that format would fly?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on March 21, 2015, 05:10:35 PM
My cousins' grandma's F40 preheat lights in the garage (well one of them) had two F40 Workshop lamps in it. One was dead and one was still working, so I left it. It's still working today. It seems at least equivalent to today's lamps as far as quality goes, just more mercury lol.

There would be tweets like "Cranston West Morning Announcements suck" or "somebody shut down the West morning announcements". Stuff like that. Nothing directed at us by name. (there's four of us, me, Dan (a junior like me), Anthony (a senior) and Megan (another senior and the only girl).

I honestly don't know what radio station you mean. I quickly looked at the past dozen or so posts but it didn't pop out. You guys were talking mainly about radios and stuff so I just hadn't been visiting the topic since it didn't really interest me lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 21, 2015, 10:18:42 PM
Yeah are you still going to try to get those lights?
Go about 1/4 of the way down 3 pages back or so.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 22, 2015, 09:02:21 AM
Yeah I'd love to get those preheaters. I will definitely try to get the ones in the garage, as the replacement fixtures are right there inside the garage. I'd love to get the ones in the basement too, as they're practically brand-new looking and have vintage lamps (Westies and Duro-Tests) but they're hardmounted in the basement and she might not let me or want me to replace them at all. The ones in the garage appear to have had the reflectors repainted at some point and have some surface rust and are in so-so condition. The ones in the basement are identical to the ones in the garage except that they're hardmounted instead of suspended and they're in much better shape it seems.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 22, 2015, 08:59:42 PM
Yeah did the roof ever leak or anything? If so that explains rust.  And they were secondhand from a family member's workplace, right?
Duro-Test straight cool whites right? That's kinda rare/neat...they seem rarer to me anyway than the already-special VitaLite PowerTwist lamps are! Really rare though is a cool white PowerTwist from what I understand. 
I installed a couple 6500K CFLs in here since 2700K looked way out of place with all the /950 fluorescents and now the fluorescents look warmer than the spirals! I like them though, I don't think I'll ever buy any more 2700K CFLs. Either 5000K or 6500K. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 22, 2015, 09:27:38 PM
The garage may have leaked. Or they could have rusted from the humidity (it's just surface rust). I originally thought they were second-hand but the ones in the basement look brand new so I suspect they all were. Yep, just "normal" F40/CW Duro-Tests. They're heavily used but still work. The Westie F40/CWs in another fixture down there are practically NOS.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 22, 2015, 10:28:56 PM
Nice, those Westy blackenders last practically forever from what I'm told.  I know of three in two different places I'm going to try to get this summer.  (F40CWs).
And you said there was a red-etch Watt-Miser on the floor by a lampless one of said fixtures right? I wonder if it cooked the ballast?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 23, 2015, 06:06:51 AM
Good luck getting those lamps, as they really are awesome!

Yep there's a third one down there with no lamps. The lamps under it on the ground were a mid-80s-ish GE red etched 34W tube (but with the small 34, not the large tall skinny 34) and a Westie F40/CW. I couldn't find a switch for it anywhere so I don't know if it works or even if it's got power! Since I couldn't find a switch I assume it is controlled by the same switch as the keyless incandescent at the landing at the bottom of the stairs, but it's on the opposite side. The Duro-Test fixture is right near the landing and it's got its own toggle switch on the ceiling (yep, the switch is on the CEILING!)

My cousins' grandma (I'll just address her by her name, Gerri, from now on) said that the lamps had fallen out of the fixture, but they looked fine too me. No way they would have survived dropping to a concrete floor. Plus there's all kinda of crap on the floor in that section and the tubes were perfectly on the floor. I think they were removed for some reason. My cousins and aunt and uncle live in a duplex annexed onto my aunt's mom's house (Gerri's house) and they said that Gerri has been saying some strange things the past year or two (implying something is up with her, like she may have Delusional Disorder or something). Like one time, Gerri was really made at my cousin (she's a sophomore in high school) wondering why she took her car out for a drive (my cousin doesn't even have her permit yet!). Of course it never really happened.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 23, 2015, 10:04:31 AM
I will try.  One is heavily blackened, I know it got the only-one-pin-inserted-in-the-LPF-shoplight treatment but it still fires up without rectifying IIRC.  The others look OK, but dirty.  (In a visibly disconnected fixture in a slowly-falling-down shed).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 23, 2015, 07:13:46 PM
BTW, I got the OK from my dad to mount a light on the shed. ;D :D So in a few weeks or so when the warmer weather comes I will make the set-up. I will probably install the street light arm on the shed wall first and get that all set and then add the wiring and light fixture afterwards. I plan to do most of the project in late June for the reasons I'll list below. Anyway, I will take detailed pics of the installation when I do it. I will bolt the arm to a block of 12" pressure treated stock, then screw said block into the studs from the outside with small screws, then I will bore two holes (3/8" or 1/2") through the board and wall and then use long carriage bolts and have another similar block on the inside. The bolts will handle all the weight of the fixture and keep the arm from pulling out of the wall and the small screws will simply act as a means of holding the block in place until I bolt it. The screws may also keep the board from sliding down the wall for whatever reason but they'll only be decking screws, so nothing too robust. All the strength will come from the two carriage bolts. With the carriage bolts utilized, the wall itself will be the weakest component. Hopefully the wall can handle the extra weight. I don't see why not, but it is a non-load-bearing wall, so it might not have been designed to carry a lot of weight.

Anyway, I said I'd mention why I'm estimating it to be completed in late June so I'll keep my word:
I will be in Florida during my April Vacation so I won't be around at all to work on it. I get out of school in mid-June and then I will potentially start an Electric Boat 8-week apprenticeship program at the Quonset Naval Air Station in Quonset Point, North Kingstown, RI. (I will be doing electrical work inside naval watercraft such as submarines, battleships, destroyers, etc.) I unfortunately cannot bring a phone or camera to take pictures of my work since it's a government location but sounds like a lot of fun and it's a paid apprenticeship too! ($14.14/hour, 40 hours a week for 8 weeks plus full benefits, working Monday-Friday 6:30AM to 3:30PM). I thought you might take an interest in that since you want to be a captain. Totally different kinds of watercraft but similar idea. Not a 100% guarantee that I have the job yet. I won't know until late-May-ish. So my goal is to get the street light installation completed between the time school gets out and the time I start this apprenticeship program. Of course I could work on it little-by-little, but I want to try and get as much as I can done at once.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 23, 2015, 11:32:23 PM
Congrats! Another idea: Mount another block on the inside corresponding to the one on the outside so it doesn't pull through the T-111 walls of the shed. 
Neat job! Sounds like a lot of fun.  Keep me posted if you get it...how did you find out about it? Are you getting work-study credit for this?
I know the feeling...coming home already tired, then getting slightly further on some lighting project between other things.  Last summer I was out of town for days at a time, and when I came home briefly I'd throw a load of laundry in, weed the garden (housesitter abandoned us), and work on the Sears shoplights from my friend's woodworking shop. 
My summer might consist of doing a ton of work to a 72' wood boat in June, (The reason I'm taking this Nautical Skills class; I'd like to think I'll end up owning it the rest of my life but it's currently for sale though there's been no interest).  then spending July/August on there working my @$$ off for long hours icing fish, driving the boat, and socializing with lots of people.  This does mean I won't be home much to work on lighting projects.  Unless the boat sells and I instead stay here and work on building a neighbor's house (Fun fact: same guy who gave me the 8' Lithonia striplight with the full power non PCB Advance ballast). In that case I might be doing some wiring.
I have some pics of marine electrical stuff (On said boat).  I should post.  As well as some information to share.  Did you know you're not supposed to use solid-core wire on boats? (Only multistrand; this boat is done with nothing more than Costco 100' yellow #12 ourdoor extension cords in place of Romex; going to regular blue plastic Carlon boxes (THAT isn't up to code though I'm sure). And the person who installed it all grew up in my current house!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 24, 2015, 06:04:15 AM
I have having an identical block on the inside as the outside. The bolts will connect the two blocks together. The block on the inside will be held against two suds adjacent to the block by the bolts via pressure. I meant that the whole wall itself might not haven been designed for the extra 40-50 pounds of observed weight. I'm sure it's fine but it's a thought that had crossed my mind...

I found out about it through construction class. Our teacher picks four of us, we get interviewed, and two of us will get chosen. They do this with every Voc-tech school in Rhode Island.

Yeah I think since romex can't be used, they use single conductors (just loose wires) inside conduit IIRC. Maybe there's special marine wiring for boats or something but regular romex is always solid.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 24, 2015, 10:19:03 AM
Yes, Romex is always solid.  I've seen steel conduit used before too but I have no idea what was inside it. 
Another time I saw armored single-core BX cable used...bad idea IMO! It was there not even a year though before we ripped it all out in favor of the "extension cord wire". The reason you're not supposed to use solid wire is that vibration (from engines, etc) will eventually cause the wire to crystallize and thus become weak, and possibly a FIRE HAZARD!
Although in my case a standard Siemens breaker panel was used, though I'm not sure that's technically up to any applicable codes.  The thing I admittedly wonder about is stranded wire being pushed into the "hot" terminals of a circuit breaker.  For switches/receptacles, crimp-on spade terminals were used to attach the wires to the devices.  (Not just screwing the stranded wire to the terminals).  And...furthermore...just don't use those stupid push-in terminals anyway! I personally think they're nothing but a fire hazard.  Because if an outlet is ever overloaded, heat's going to build up at the weakest points first...like skimpy connections.
I know at least one device here in my house (bathroom light switch) is done with push-ins but I've never changed it but would never do it that way.  It's been there for many years as the wire is 1970s-ish black NM cable...granted everything here was unpowered for eight years while the house was vacant.
In another place I took stranded #16 extension cord wire and screwed it to a light switch's terminals...but all that controls is a couple 4' fluorescents...though if I had to do it again I wouldn't do it that way, I'd use spade crimps. 
Another one someone did in my house was braiding all the ground wires together in the main panel.  Something I would never do, but it's been working fine since the 90s-ish.  (White NM cable).  And I have tested most of the outlets in my house for ground...I can think of one that didn't have it but it was in a closet, and there's a few I did that I admittedly skimped on.  (But that was a few years ago too, if I had to redo it I'd do it "right".  I also did those with #12 extension wire and spade crimp terminals. 
Another interesting one...that Sears shoplight with the Bonusline ballast has the ballast installed with the ground wire pushed under the ballast mounting flange then the ballast bolt tightened down on it firmly.  I didn't do it that way but left it...also said fixture has a spliced cord with a 2-prong plug...something I also left since it's been working fine since maybe even the 70s!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 24, 2015, 02:45:05 PM
Yeah I avoid those stab-in connections. They seem pretty cheesy. I don't see anything wrong with using stranded wire with screws without using crimps. I do it all the time. You just have to make sure all the strands are under the screw head (which can be hard to do sometimes...) In the main panel, all the grounds and neutrals are connected to a long metal strip with a bunch of terminals. Both the neutrals and grounds are connected to the same bar, but cannot be connected using the same screw (you can connect more than one ground to a screw, but you cannot connect a ground and neutral to the same screw for whatever reason).

When I wire cords on my fluorescents, I almost always wrap the ground wire around the bolt holing the ballast down. Nothing wrong with that IMO. If there's a grounding screw then I use that but in most of my fixtures there isn't a designated grounding screw. I guess it didn't become mandatory for a long time after the ground wire was introduced, like in the 90s or something.

Yeah in ideal conditions, it should be grounded but in the case of the newly-installed T8 shoplight in my grandpa's bathroom at his shop, I didn't ground it. The fixture has a grounded cord, and the ground wire on the cord is connected to the fixture, but at the plug end I snipped off the ground wire since the plug from the old light was 2-prong. I honestly thought the fixture was hardwired so I had brought a romex clamp to secure the cord to the junction box but turns out the junction box had a keyless socket installed with one of those screw-in adapters that gives you a 15A ungrounded plug. So I just wired the old vintage plug onto the new cord and called it a day. The light is like 12-15ft up there so it's not like anyone's going to be touching it anyway. And if they are, hopefully they just shut it off first lol. But the fixture doesn't have a ground fault so hopefully it just stays that way...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 24, 2015, 08:53:30 PM
This instance was the wire shoved underneath the ballast case.  Maybe I'll take a pic of it.
Many of my lights also lack grounding screws.
Well I hope you get that job nonetheless! I bet you're really excited! Like I said I'll be busy this summer too; I'll then start my senior year here I think, then go off to college, possibly in a bigger city like Anchorage or Fairbanks. After that I'm thinking of doing a road trip or something to see more of the United States...perhaps in a Deuce but we'll see...my plans/lifestyle have changed yearly so far so we'll see, it's impossible to see into the future!
I also just plugged in one of my 8ft slimlines and even at like 80 degrees the lamps STILL striated for a bit!
That ballast (Advance Mark III) has a nice classic hum, but not that raspy tone the other two F40/RS Universal Therm-O-Matics in this same room do (As well as other ballasts).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 24, 2015, 09:10:50 PM
Ah I see. Mine are under the ballast case flange too, but they're also curved around the bolt so the wire doesn't pull out easily.

Yeah I'm really excited about this opportunity and thanks!

Wow it's 80 degrees in some parts of your house?! :o In the winter I like rooms to be around 65-70 degrees (well, I guess i like rooms that temperature year-round, but even 75 feels great when it's 90 and muggy outside!). If any part of my house was 80 degrees I'd have the windows wide open and the fans blowing lol. I'm pretty much a human furnace so if I'm in bed and it's cold in my room (like 60 degrees, which is cold when you're only wearing pajama shorts...) I will be perfectly fine, if not warm, in bed with just the comforter. However, take away the comforter and I'll be freezing my @$$ off lol.

The only place I know of now with magnetic slimlines that I actually go into is my grandpa's shop, and I don't go in often, so I don't really have a great "slimline sound" etched in my mind. They basically sound like RS ballasts to me, just louder lol. Some of his slimlines are relatively quiet though, just a soft hum, but unlike RS, I don't think there's such a thing as an almost-dead-silent SL ballast (well, aside from electronic ones lol).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 25, 2015, 10:19:01 AM
It can get that way up here on the 2nd floor where the heat funnels right up from a loft above the living room...warm spring day, sun hitting windows all day, and the woodstove going it can get pretty toasty in here!
In winter, anything below 70F feels "cold" to me...but in the summer where it's hot of course you'd want it cooler...
Most of my SL experience comes from my own fixtures, but I had the sound down before that anyway.  But yeah I don't think such a thing as a dead-silent magnetic slimline even exists! Mine are all sound rated C or D IIRC.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 25, 2015, 02:40:42 PM
The whole sound rating system doesn't make sense to me anyway. Some rated Class A are loud while some rated class C are actually relatively quiet.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 25, 2015, 09:50:07 PM
LOL yeah I swear I can identify a 70s-80s Universal F40/RS just by sound alone! (The ones in my school are pretty noisy after 30-35 years (Both green/yellow label Therm-O-Matics and 1984 white-label .65a ones, both versions of which I have, which were removed from there).   My green/yellow label full power PCB containing one is loud and raspy until it warms up, then drops to a hum.  The other one in the Sears shoplight (80s .65a no-PCB) has some sound to it but not too much.  Nogden on LG was saying after 30-odd years of use the tar in them dries out and rattles around, hence the noise. Advance Kool-Koils seem decently quiet, I'm around them every day at school too and they're pretty much silent, as is mine, although mine has the issue of being a thermal cutout cycler.
Shame those Advance ballasts had cap issues, those were good ballasts IMO otherwise, being quiet and not usually failing violently, unlike GE Bonuslines which like to leak tar (My example of such leaked it at one or more times in the past, but still works).  Despite that, it has only a slight hum, even on MSW inverter electricity!
The loudest thing I have though would be the 400w MH highbay used as a step-up transformer to 277v for powering the 277v single lamp Advance T8 ballast I have for frying spent lamps, THAT thing sounds like a hockey buzzer on MSW, but it's also decently loud on "normal" power too.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on March 25, 2015, 11:02:52 PM
Been a few days since I checked in here.. I see lots of posts since then LOL

Some of those MH/MV/etc ballasts are really loud. There've been a few shopping-center parking lots I've been in where the streetlights are just buzzing away like crazy! If you took one of those home and fired it up in the neighborhood, would probably get someone calling in a noise complaint!

@GEsoftwhite100watts: just curious...how did you turn a MH ballast into a step-up transformer for 277v ?? :o
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 25, 2015, 11:08:24 PM
I might add that cycling T8 ballast is working again.  I'm really thinking it's a solder joint now since this time it lit when someone stomped heavily on the floor above where the fixture is.  
Mike, do you ever tell other people about Lighting Gallery? I've indirectly mentioned it to a few people that there's whole websites devoted to collecting light-related stuff, like any hobby, but I must say I was thinking earlier today I've learned a lot from here and LG...before then I was into lighting but wasn't much of a collector and didn't really give most fixtures or lamps more than a second glance, or appreciate vintage stuff for what it was, thinking it was fairly modern.
It's amazing what the Internet can teach though.  If it weren't for LG I wouldn't be so into lighting, and YouTube sparked that Deuce interest...
Xmaslightguy, yeah those parking lot lights are really loud sometimes! But noise...I lived right above the main high school in a town of 25,000 people! (we called band practice the "drummer bummers".
It's easy.  If it's multitap 120/208/240/277v, just wire it to 120v like normal, then use the 277v tap as the "hot" for whatever you're powering, then bond the "neutral" to the 120v line neutral as well. I do wonder about 277v shooting back into branch circuits though, if there was an outlet miswired someplace or something.
And...I had no lamp screwed in...dunno what would happen if you did that. And don't exceed the wattage of the ballast...in my case draw no more than 400w of 277v load.
Same works for getting 208v or 240v.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 26, 2015, 10:14:12 AM
...And it's dead again!
Had a neat lighting dream last night in which I scored a couple F96/HO striplights somehow.  I remember trying to take a photo of the ballast (Branded "Scholastic just like books are!).  Then later my dad was trying to persuade me to restore/repaint one of them to install in the bathroom...I thought it was weird of him to say that! With the layout of my bathroom though an 8 foot HO would be nice and bright! I remember "thinking" I needed lamps now and needed to go to True Value to get some, and was also going to buy some standard-output 8ft slimline lamps for my 4 other slimline strips but then woke up LOL.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 26, 2015, 02:49:14 PM
I don't think that ballast brands have a unique sound. The sound is caused by the same exact thing: the coils rattling. A Therm-O-Matic doesn't sound any different than a Mark IV or a Bonusline. Some ballasts are louder than others and a slightly different pitch/tone but it's not brand-related. It would be use-related and related to its application (high use ballasts are typically louder than ones seldom used, though I've discovered with HID ballasts that some ballasts with several-thousand hours are still dead silent while others that are NOS are just loud by default.

Yes, you can use it fro getting 277V from 120V but you cannot use it with 208V or 240V, because those voltages are phase-to-phase, not phase-to-ground. 120V is phase-to-ground, where the load (light fixture) is wired between one hot wire and one neutral wire. 277V is the same way. However, with 208V and 240V, there is no real neutral. The neutral wire is used as a hot. But if you connect the ballast to 120V, you cannot reuse the neutral as the hot for the 208 or 240V so you can only power something that's 277V. Maybe there's a way to run something that's 208V or 240V, but with those voltages, the load (ligth fixture's ballast) is connected between two phases (hot wires) so I highly doubt it. Phase-to-phase means hot-to-hot and phase-to-ground is hot-to-neutral.

@ xmaslightguy; yeah the 1965 GE M-250R in my backyard (175W MV, 120/240V, ballast is an OEM GE from 1966 from another M-250R) is VERY loud. I can't use it indoors because its just too loud, so it lives outside lol. I'm considering revarnishing the ballast to see if it quiets it down.

@ Andy; what do you mean? Like non-lighting people? No I don't. I say that I'm a member of a few lighting forums but I don't get more specific than that. Yeah I learned a lot from the LG and here too. Unfortunately most of the people I learned most from (Jace, Vince, Joe, Dave D., Don, Aaron, etc) are not that active anymore. It seems that there isn't much of an interest in cobraheads and street lighting anymore. The LG is basically all European street lights and both Euro and US fluorescents. Barely any North American street lights. And here there isn't much activity at all. Kinda boring when no one's really on here, especially since you guys are mainly into fluorescents and not street lights (no offense; just haven't really had anyone to "talk street lights" with lol).

Yeah something is loose insid that ballast. Try smacking the fixture with a broomstick or something (don't use your hand or something conductive, because if it's a loose solder joint, there's a slight chance that the loose connection inside could energize the fixture and shock you. You're at more of a risk if the fixture is ungrounded, but the ground wire won't necessarily protect you from a ground fault all the time. When I test fixtures I usually use a GFCI outlet since the GFCI will trip if there's a ground fault (well, I guess I didn't really need to say that since after all it is a ground fault circuit interrupter, designed to interrupt circuits with a ground fault lol)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on March 26, 2015, 08:19:14 PM
@GEsoftwhite100watts:
I've seen T8 ballasts at work that do the "sometimes work/sometimes don't" thing...eventually they'll just quit alltogether.
One time I brought one home after the electrition replaced it just to 'test' (was one of those multi voltage ballasts, so even though it was running on 277v, it would also do 120v). Didn't get it to work so I tore it apart to see what was inside LOL...filled with tar just like a magnetic ballast so I saved the remaining wires & dumped it in my electronics recycle pile :)
May not be something like a bad/loose connection, it could be a protection feature detecting an issue thats right on the borderline...

Interesting with the 120 -> 277v trick, quite simple too. I figured there was something more to doing it.

Sometimes I can somewhat-hear the highschool band practicing, from a school that's basically a mile from me. Sound from those drums certainly does carry. Even with all the traffic-noise and what not.

Wouldn't it be cool if there was a way to "record" a dream into video? then you could have pictures of all those weird lights :cool: !

@Mike:
I wonder what would happen if you did connect the 240v inputs to 120v.. if you then might get 60v out of the 120v output?
(I know thats phase-to-phase input like the 208, but would be an interesting 'test') Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought those 'multi-tap' ballasts simply had the various 'voltage inputs' spaced at different positions on the same coil (rather than multiple coils), so then couldn't you theoretically use any of the voltages?

If I had a loud light like that in the yard, it would very likely result in a 'noise complaint' (assuming the light ran all night, though in reality something that bright would only be used occasionally, it'd be too expensive to leave it on all night every night anyway :lol: )

I see the various sites in this way:
LG more of a 'fluorescents' site
GOL more of a 'street-lights' site
ATL being the 'UK fluorescents/street-lights' site

----------
I had no idea anyone else but me was into lights til one day I was looking at YouTube and on a whim did a search for "Fluorescent Light" :o and finding people's 'startup' and 'EOL videos...
that led to me google'ing for fluorescent lights forums & finding LG.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 26, 2015, 09:45:49 PM
I don't think so, because you need two hots for 208 or 240V (the neutral would serve as the second hot when wiring up the ballast conventionally, and it cannot do double-duty as the neutral for 120V and the hot for 208 or 240V. At best, you would end up sending voltage back though the neutral wire, which would be extremely dangerous and would fry any electronics such as TVs, computers, etc if they're not on a surge protector (and if your house isn't grounded, the protector won't function anyway). If you connected the 240V input to 120V you would still get 120V to the fixture, but since the 240V tap is after the step-up winding (mercs have an OCV of 240V so 120V requires an extra coil to step up the voltage), the lamp would run at half power and you will overheat the capacitor if it's a CWA or CWI and possibly damage the ballast because the arc voltage or something (i forget what exactly) goes up as voltage goes down, putting the ballast under more stress.

It's not really too loud outside once the lamp has warmed up. It's noisiest when it first comes on. I rarely have it running since it's connected to an extension cord. I plug it into the outlet on the outside of the house when we have parties or do stuff outside after dark. I plan to mount a second light outside, which rill run on the same basis. 175W isn't that bright if you live in a more secluded neighborhood or use FCO optics. My neighbors would be more upset over the sides of their houses being lit than about the noise. You can't hear it from 75ft away. When you enter a 40ft radius or so then the buzz becomes pretty audible.

What's ATL? Since it's UK it explains why I don't know about it... Yeah LG used to be a good 50/50 of street lights and fluorescents until the GoL was made (as a result of some administration wars going on back in 2008-2009). Then most of the street light people flocked over to the GoL. The GoL has remained almost entirely North American lighting, which is something I like. Not that I have anything against UK lighting but I don't have any interest in it. Any street lights I've seen look pretty ugly and their fluorescents can't be used on 120V here anyway so I don't have any interest in them...

I was originally only into street lights. Then I slowly branched out into general HID lighting, fluorescent lighting and just lighting in general. In recent years I've redirected my interests away from residential and commercial HID lighting and focus solely on street lighting (though I like the really cool vintage wallpacks and stuff from the 60s and 70s made by Holophane, Stonco, and Westie). I do have some high bay lights though that I like. As for fluorescents, I am into mostly magnetic stuff. Nothing over 4ft (with the exception of T17s). Once i get my own place I will consider 8ft fluorescents but not til then.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 26, 2015, 11:14:09 PM
For whatever reason, the overall consensus seems to be that the multi-voltage T8 ballasts are less robust than single-voltage units. 
In my case, the high school was less than 1000' away.  But you could also hear freeway traffic all night if it was quiet, and any big trucks in the neighborhood. The trash truck also had to back it's way back down the single-lane dirt road I lived on...beep beep beep for .25 mile!
It would be really nice to "record" dreams into video.  I've had some neat ones...both lighting and also non-lighting.
Mike and Xmaslightguy: I've tried stepping up to all the voltages from 120...120>208, 120>240, 120>277.  It works fine, though yeah I do wonder about the neutral thing.  From my understanding the neural is supposed to be "floating" or whatever...I never totally got that whole neutral-to-ground bonding thing, or 3-phase, and I've had many an electrician friend explain it to be, drawing it out and all. 
I do know you can get straight 240v with both the hots with single-phase, but I didn't know 208 was the same way. That explains why electric water heaters are also rated for 208v! (Yet draw less power). Maybe next time I do this I'll try to measure the output back from the neutral somehow...if it's more than 240v.
My house is grounded so theoretically I'm less likely to fry anything, though I have some outlets that are not (Although I know which ones they are, I've tested everything).
I remember someone on LG and youTube once took a multitap F-can 400w MV ballast and wired the 277v tap to 120v and ran a 175w MV lamp successfully, though, without any immediately apparent issues.
And Mike...now the OTHER light in my kitchen started doing this too! I took the first one apart today and "whacked" the ballast (Sure enough it's a multivolt Advance; ADVANCED failure rate like usual). and it seems to be working; it stayed on for a couple hours.
Also one of the lamps is a Sylvania Octron 3500K, not a GE Ecolux SP35 like the others are. 
I was telling my dad about how the electronic ballasts are just crap in general compared to anything magnetic while doing this.  I then walked out in the garage with him, gestured towards the Sears shoplight I made HPF and said "I put a new ballast in this light recently, that dates to I think December 1984, and it was used every day until I got it, then it quickly went back into service in this fixture". He said "It still buzzes" and I said "Yeah, I have an even older one from like 1979 that's kinda noisy (It's a 446 Therm-O-Matic but I didn't say that at the time; he wouldn't know/care) but works flawlessly otherwise.  It's paper label looks brand new last I looked and everything".
He was like "But those lights aren't that efficient" and I said something like "Yeah, that's absolutely true...but they'll outlast the modern stuff. 
So I think we're ordering some T8 ballasts as of now LOL.  If we get a bunch we'll have spares and I might replace the thermal-cycler Advance Kool-Koil as well. (Though I'd like a 3-lamp ballast for that fixture).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on March 26, 2015, 11:43:38 PM
@Mike:
One of my worries would be backfeeding voltage into the lines :o

It would be interesting to see a schematic of one of those ballasts just to see how the different voltage inputs are wired...

ATL is AllThingsLighting.co.uk


GEsoftwhite100watts:
208v is across 2 120v phases of a 3-phase system... just like 480v is across 2 277v phases.
I sorta get how 3-phase works, but I don't believe you get a true waveform like a single phase would provide. Basically its 2 separate waveforms from my understanding

And yep 240v is really taken from just a single phase - basically the transformer output  feeding it is 240v with a center-tap... that center-tap is used as your neutral, so its 120v between  that and either 'end' of the coil (and ofcourse a full 240v skipping the center-tap). Atleast this is how it was explained to me.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 27, 2015, 12:21:39 PM
LOL even some of that explanation went right over my head to be honest...
Different waveform? That's interesting!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 27, 2015, 02:41:56 PM
Just because the multivolt ones seem to be crappier for some reason lol.

Not sure what "floating" means, but yeah, on 240V if you connect the power between both hots, you get 240V. If you connect one of the hots to a neutral and wire something that way, you get 120V. Same with 208V 3 phase, though mathematically I'm not sure how that works.

You wouldn't back-feed voltage into the lines with 277V. You will with a phase-to-phase voltage (208 or 240V) which is why I keep saying that it cannot be done. You can't have the common wire serve as the neutral for 120V AND the second hot for 208 or 240V. Just can't happen. Either it's got voltage or it doesn't...

Speaking of three-phase power, the Vocational Building at my school lost a phase today! I was walking towards the main door and thought "Hmm, those LED canopy lights are dim and flickering. Those pieces of crap." (those canopy lights run 24/7 so I figured they were dying). Then I walked in and saw that that most of the lights were off. The only lights on were the emergency lights. Then I walked into the shop and all the lights are on there except for one of the four circuits and was wondering what the heck was going on. Apparently, we lost a phase, so some stuff was powered and other stuff wasn't. The lights in the hallway have emergency ballasts, while in the shop itself we have separate halogen emergency lights. The only thing in our shop with power was the lights. Nothing else. In other rooms though, nothing at all worked. And other rooms everything worked. And other rooms the lights didn't work but everything else worked. I kinda like power outages at school. Just kinda cool.

Every few fixtures in the hallway had the center lamp on, as it's on emergency backup. The hallway was actually still decently lit with just those designated emergency lights on. The emergency ballast seems to power the lamps at the same power as the ballast would, just they flicker as if they were being run off a generator without something to "clean up" the frequency. I took a picture that I will upload but it's kinda fuzzy and the brightness is way off. The camera made the hallway look much brighter than it actually was (it made each fixture appear as if all three lamps were lit)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 28, 2015, 10:48:46 AM
I guess so! But I like the multi-volt concept.  And all True Value sells are multivolt Advance ballasts anyway.  Same for SBS. 
So I think we'll order a couple 2XF32T8 ballasts, (Or 2XF40T12 ERS) and I'd like to also order a 3-lamp ballast for the 3-lamp troffer.
Intereresting! I wonder what caused the phase loss?
I've heard those emergency ballasts can trash lamps quickly, powering any lamp at about 8w and without any cathode heating, causing them to sputter quickly.  Any idea how long this outage lasted?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 28, 2015, 02:44:12 PM
I like the  concept behind it too. I think they only make multivolt electronic ballasts. Here I have access to GE electronic ballasts (Home Depot and WalMart) and Advance ballasts (at Lowe's) and possibly OSRAM ballasts if Lowe's sells them now. I usually buy ballasts online though so I can order high ballast factor, as the stores seem to only carry low and normal ballast factor.

A phase loss is usually from one of the three transformers quitting (or something with the circuit went wrong). Three phase systems use three transformers (which is why you see a cluster of three transformers on a pole near businesses usually). I have no idea what happened though, and the power was back on by the end of first period (though I don't know when it went out; all the other buildings on campus had 100% power).

I wonder if the lights have actual emergency ballasts or if they're generator-powered, as the lamps appears full-brightness and were flickering like the lights on a car do when the battery is dead and you jump start it. The fixtures with lamps on back-up has the lamps at full power so I guess it couldn't have been an emergency ballast. The back-up lamps must be on totally different circuits since the lamps are ONLY on during a power outage and not normally on. Hmm, whatever... The lamps have little to no wear on them either, so my guess is that there's only been one or two other outages.

The emergency lights were on and then all of a sudden we heard a loud CLICK (like the sound effect you hear in a movie when a bunch of lights suddenly shut out- seriously!) and then after about a minute, the power came back on and the lights were on like normal. I guess Apparently, whatever caused the outage also tripped all the breakers on the effected circuits so everyone was going around turning on the breakers. We have a master kill-switch that cuts the power to all our power equipment, so we just had to flip one breaker back on.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on March 28, 2015, 03:47:03 PM
I like the idea of the multi-volt ballasts too.
I've got some lights with emergency ballasts, & they seem to do fine. I think some are better than others for lamp-life.
There have been times at work where they lost a phase, and yep some lights are on, others off... And I remember one time where one phase was on, one off, and one half-brightness :o did all kinds of crazy things like lights blinking due to the half voltage LOL. Was that way for an hour or so then everything went off & full power came back on a couple minutes later....but not before it ended up smoking a 3-phase motor on something (which set off the fire-alarm & they kicked everyone out/shut down for the rest of the day). 



@GEsoftwhite100watts:
too bad you don't live in Colorado, I could let you have one of those 3-lamp F32T8 ballasts for for a few bucks.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on March 28, 2015, 03:48:18 PM
..
Also Human Achievement Hour   2015 is today (March 28) from 8:30 - 9:30 pm ... make sure to turn on your lights for that :lol:
..
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 28, 2015, 03:55:26 PM
I like the idea of HBF but I'll settle for whatever Sitka has available, likely mutlivolt Advance ballasts that will last a couple years then quit for no reason or start working sporadically, if at all.  
Does that place have a backup generator perhaps? If so the flicker from bad hertz would make sense but if other things weren't doing it that makes no sense and debunks that theory.  And also electronic T8 ballasts seem pretty tolerant to voltage fluctuations and wandering cycles/hertz...trust me, I know, I've used them on generators with hertz issues, as well as seen them take voltage dips with large motor-driven items, such as a SkilSaw, starting.  
OK, so here's an interesting one I found about today: The FM dial where I live could become REALLY empty once July 1st rolls around!
The state of Alaska is doing major budget cuts, including to public broadcasting (radio and TV).  Public radio obviously falls into this category.  Although I don't listen to news or NPR much I think it'd be a shame to see it go...I think in fact here in rural Alaska we have some of the most unique NPR stations! I bet in most metropolitan areas you wouldn't hear a locally-generated "set" consisting of (Actual set I've heard included these): Papa Roach-Last Kiss, Blink-182- Stay Together for the Kids, Smashing Pumpkins-Tonight Tonight, or something such as (different station) Danzig-Mother, Skillet-Hero, etc.  Granted, these are all in that 10PM-midnight time slot LOL. But most NPR stations don't play anything like that...but the ones here do, along with, yes, classical and jazz.  But you just don't hear unique radio stations like that in more urban areas!
I think it'd be a shame to see them go dark because of their unique-ness.  I guess it could affect all public radio in Alaska eventually.  Stations might not go off the air July 1st but I picture a slippery slope from there.  And once they're gone it's hard to reopen them I imagine.
Now, it wouldn't leave where I live totally without radio, but it would sure mean installing a pretty high antenna to hear AM stations during the day, and of course at night things would be listenable on even the cheapest radios, albeit hissy and scratchy.  
So it will be interesting to see what will happen! Maybe clearing the airwaves will make room for something else, who knows.  That was the main start of any FM radio in most areas of Alaska, public radio! Including my area.  
Human achievement hour...might have to do that!
Yeah I'd like to find a programmed-start 3-lamp version. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 28, 2015, 04:13:29 PM
Not sure if they have a generator. I assume there's one in the building, as it was a state-owned building until they sold it to the Cranston Public Schools system a couple years ago, so they've got all sorts of fancy gadgets, though the place is sorta in disrepair (not a not of money in the budget for maintenance). The shop lights had power (except one circuit) so they were operating normally. The hall lights that were on back-up (either generator or emergency ballast) were flickering weirdly in an inconsistent pattern.

Human Achievement Hour - never head of it! Hmm. I'd plug in the M-250R outside since now all the snow is gone, but it's raining/snowing right now (not amounting to anything though) so I'm not going outside to turn it on lol.

I'd like to get some programmed start fluorescent ballasts too. I have some programmed start PL ballasts that can be wired up for one F32T8 (and probably one or two F17T8s too, though I don't have any F17T8s to try, so maybe I'll try F20T12s sometime to test it. If you wire up two F32T8s though it will shut off and disconnect after 30 seconds or so. They're 1.0 ballast factor, so you get the true amount of lumens that the lamp is labeled for. Only thing is that they're not shaped like a normal potted linear fluorescent ballast, so drilling an extra hole in the fixture is necessary.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 28, 2015, 04:42:48 PM
It's the lighting enthusiast counteraction to Earth Hour. I might fire up some lights, not sure though.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 28, 2015, 07:46:34 PM
Well I got my HPS M-250R1 in my room running right now. I have my exit sign running too, but I have it on every night from around an hour before sunset to the time I go to bed (10PM or 10:30PM, whenever lol). The exception is if I leave the house, then I shut it off.

BTW, does anyone here know anything about synchronized clocks? (Simplex Time Recorder, in particular?) I want to fix the one in my construction class, as it doesn't work...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 28, 2015, 08:00:12 PM
I do not, so I can't really help you there LOL.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 29, 2015, 05:46:28 PM
Aw man, OK. I don't know too much about synchronized clocks (other than the fact that they're insanely expensive) but they've always fascinated me with the smooth-sweeping second hand and the silent operation (no annoying "tick-tock")

BTW, I mounted my M-400 outside today. I didn't feel comfortable leaving it up though. Too wobbly. So I took pics of it and put the M-250R back up. When I reinstalled the M-250R I made it tilt was up. I'm going to see how much better the yard is lit. It's still got the super browned-out lens and clear Sylvania lamp. The M-400A2 is the same weight as the M-400, so I don't think I'm going to be putting the M-400A2 up on the pole either, though I haven't tried it. And I don't want to put a super heavy light on the shed either. The M-400 looked REALLY nice too. I wish I trusted the set-up enough to leave it up but the M-400 weighs like 35-40 pounds. The M-400A2 might be even heavier, but the weight would be settled differently since it's a power/door and has a different slipfitter. I'll have to try the M-400A2 some other time. After installing and removing the giant M-400 the M-250R was a breeze lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 29, 2015, 09:29:35 PM
I always thought the sweeping second hand was neat too.  But I've always preferred digital clocks (and of course this includes flip-digit clock-radios from the 70s).  I am excited to eventually get mine going up here and see what it's (IMO excellent) tuner pulls in and how well, especially that one FM public radio station that I'm on the very fringe of, provided it doesn't go off the air July 1st! (Read a couple posts back for that rant if you haven't already).  And of course I'm excited to see how it's AM selectivity is with stations interfering with each other at night. I do wonder about how well it will do on MSW inverter power though!
Yeah I saw those pics on LG and commented on one of them.  I would hate working over my head mounting a cobra though, those things are heavy! (Well at least that M-400 that's (sorta) mine is).  Like I said if I go down there again I'll try to take pics of it's guts and maybe get it going the next visit after that, whenever that may be.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 30, 2015, 07:22:23 PM
OK, so I was able to get the clock open and found that there is indeed still power to it, as the motor is warm to the touch. I'm thinking that the motor is bad. I can still move the hands manually, so the gears are free, but the motor will not move the gears.

The master clock (the main clock which controls all the slave clocks, yeah the terminology is a little strange: master and slaves...) is apparently not in operation anymore so they clocks are no longer synchronized. The slave clocks aren't designed to accurately keep time, as the master clock will synchronize them a couple times a day. Typically the clocks run a tiny bit fast and then the master clock will stop them for a minute or so until the slaves read the same time as the master. So without the synchronization from the master clock, the clock will not keep accurate time if I get it working again.

So the other option is to convert it to quartz powered. They make electric quartz clock movements (basically a battery powered clock movement but with a cord instead of a battery). A clock "movement" is the motor. In the case of quartz clocks, it's the little black box on the back of the clock. I can strip the old synchron guts out and install an electric quartz movement. This means that the clock will have to be manually reset after a power outage and at daylight savings time (I personally think we should either get rid of daylight savings time or standard time to avoid changing the clocks, since it really doesn't affect anything) but there will be no batteries involved. The synchronized clock runs right off 120V, so the existing plugs can be used. The clock has a special plug with four wires (120V hot, neutral, ground, and 24V synchronizing wire, through which the master clock sends an electric pulse through to trigger the slaves to synchronize.) The plug on the new quartz movement can be cut off and can be wired to the existing plug. The 24V synchronizing wire can be left disconnected. The ground only connects to the metal clock face so it's unaffected in this conversion.

There's actually two clocks I'm considering converted. The one in our shop, which doesn't work at all (I took it apart and dissected it today) and the one in the old automechanics shop, which we use to build stuff like sheds, drywall structures, roofing lessons, etc. The one in automechanics still works but it's on the wrong time. I could try setting the one in automechanics for the right time and see if it keeps time, but if the power goes out, the only way to adjust it is to take out a million screws and totally disassemble it so it's probably still worth converted to electric quartz. It would still need to be reset after an outage with the quartz but at least the adjustment dial is on the back of it so it just has to be opened up whereas the synchron  set-up doesn't have an adjustment dial, so you need to move the hands themselves with your fingers.

 CLICK HERE TO SEE THE CLOCK ON THE LIGHTING-GALLERY.  (http://www.lighting-gallery.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-101285)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 30, 2015, 11:09:56 PM
Neat! I saw that pic and commented already so I won't do that here.  Neat setup though, and cool you plan to try to fix it!
I think vintage clocks are neat, but I'm not as interested as I am in lighting.  Are you really into clocks? My closest thing would be vintage clock-radios and vintage analog-tuning stereo tuners/amplifiers.  I'm sure I've mentioned the 1978 JVC my godparents have and I'm going to try to get.
I like your passion to fix things that aren't yours...I'm sorta the same way. 
And is there a way to make an outside call with the phone handsets on that Simplex system or is it JUST an intercom system?
My old elementary school, built in '88, had synchronized clocks but only the clock and speaker, not with the phone or light switches.  Now you've got me interested in PA systems/sychro clocks!
It'd be cool to see a system like that with a AM/FM hooked up to that...preferably a vintage tuner of course!
Oh and remember our discussion about fluorescent lights in kitchens? Well tonight at a party at someone's house they had either /950 or daylight (I think it was daylight).  Pizza looked unique under that color...cheese looked yellowish, not orange!  I thought of you, though, as soon as I saw it!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 31, 2015, 06:01:35 AM
Yeah vintage clocks are cool! I'm pretty much just into synchronized clocks and contempory (basic looking) house-hold wall-mount clocks. I have a GE electric wall mount clock in my bedroom on the wall from my grandparent's basement. I think it's in my "Miscellaneous" album in my gallery. I love the silent sweeping second hand instead of the "stepping" hand that goes tick-tock all the time.

That phone is strictly to call the office. When you pick the phone off the receiver it automatically pages the votech office. In the main building, the phones are in a separate box and you can call different rooms and stuff but you still can't connect to an outside phone, I don't think...

Ah hopefully it was a fun party? Daylight lamps are very refreshing looking. Nice bluish light and not commonly found.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on March 31, 2015, 07:44:47 PM
I remember one of the schools I went to had synchronized clocks ... but they looked just like ordinary wall clocks, nothing like that beast in the picture LOL. Occasionally if you were lucky to be watching at just the right time you'd get to see the hands jump back or forward a bit :) Always thought it was a cool setup


Quote from: Mike
Daylight lamps are very refreshing looking. Nice bluish light
I agree there 8) I've always liked Daylight lamps!
But the kitchen is deff not a place for them (or really anything over 3500k)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 31, 2015, 09:18:51 PM
Yeah they actually fit the kitchen really well but there was one cool white which ruined the effect LOL.  It was this almost-industrial kitchen added to this unique hexagon-shaped house with wood everywhere else.   It was even more unique than my house, which takes some doing LOL.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 31, 2015, 09:57:18 PM
OK how about a battery-operated clock that ticktockticktocks loudly and swings a pendulum but has a "sweeping" second hand? What would that qualify as? There's one like that in my house. 
I've always preferred digital clocks...no ticking whatsoever. 
Anyone know if a modified sine wave inverter would make an electric clock fast or slow? How about a synchronized system if I were to install one in my house?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on March 31, 2015, 10:44:14 PM
@GEsoftwhite100watts: From what I read in a electronics-related book (been quite awhile ago now) some clocks (including digital) just 'read' off the 60hz for their timing.

No idea how those synchronized systems work though.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 31, 2015, 10:49:16 PM
I had a digital clock-radio that ran way fast on MSW; even the blinking "12:00" when plugged in but not set would flash on and off noticeably faster than it would on "normal" power.  (It got run on both interchangeably, as does everything in my house). But my current clock-radio doesn't do that, and it runs all night and much of the day on MSW and still wakes me up exactly when it should every morning.
And another one: Would a vintage stereo tuner/amplifier (analog tuning, 70s era-ish) be hurt by MSW?
Oh and BTW Xmaslightguy...did you see my post a ways back about losing public radio translators here come July 1st? (Since before that we were discussing radio). 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 01, 2015, 06:04:07 AM
if it tick-tocks and has a sweeping hand i think its still a sweeping clock. The ones that move to the tick-tock sound are called "stepping" hands instead of sweeping. I hate the tick-tock sound but like analog clocks (we have a digital and an analog clock in any room with a clock in my house)

Synchronized systems would probabaly run OK, as they emit the frequency that makes then synchronize from a separate 24VDC wire from the Master Clock.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on April 01, 2015, 08:34:21 PM
Quote from: GEsoftwhite100watts
BTW Xmaslightguy...did you see my post a ways back about losing public radio translators here come July 1st? 
I went back & found it :)


  Although I don't listen to news or NPR much I think it'd be a shame to see it go...I think in fact here in rural Alaska we have some of the most unique NPR stations! I bet in most metropolitan areas you wouldn't hear a locally-generated "set" consisting of (Actual set I've heard included these): Papa Roach-Last Kiss, Blink-182- Stay Together for the Kids, Smashing Pumpkins-Tonight Tonight, or something such as (different station) Danzig-Mother, Skillet-Hero, etc.  Granted, these are all in that 10PM-midnight time slot LOL. But most NPR stations don't play anything like that...
Yeah allot of public radio either does talk or 'elevator music' LOL neither of which is something I'd listen to.
But even so it would be a loss if they end up shutting down stations. :(
Sounds like that one station of yours atleast does a period with something good.

Thinking back on the radio discussion,  remember I mentioned there's a couple AM stations here that do HD(which being stereo makes it almost it almost listenable 'almost' because I'm on the fringe of the HD so it cuts in & out),  well I found out it is a Colorado Public Radio station... and they do alternative music full time plus focus on local bands. Might actually be a decent station, gonna let it run for a bit tonight.


Quote
Human achievement hour...might have to do that!
I did fire up some lights for it :)


Quote
Would a vintage stereo tuner/amplifier (analog tuning, 70s era-ish) be hurt by MSW?
I really don't know, but something you might want to look into is a 'line conditioner' to "clean up" the power for your electronics. (the ones I've seen look like a piece of either stereo equipment or one of those battery-backup units for a computer)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 02, 2015, 09:27:03 AM
Yeah it sounds like main stations won't face the axe immediately but their low-power FM translators sure will! So yeah goodbye FM radio here I guess LOL. (Ever had the opportunity to scan through a totally blank FM band? I have on many occasions)
Interesting! Awhile back I found the (maybe Prince Rupert?) CBC radio station on AM which I think is Canada's equivalent of NPR and they were running "This American Life" which also runs on NPR.  It was all talk, so it was much more worth listening to through static than music would have been!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 02, 2015, 02:46:25 PM
I guess where you are satellite radio is a good investment? lol When we go up to NH in the White Mountains there's not many stations that come in good. There are a few though.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on April 02, 2015, 07:50:03 PM
@GEsoftwhite100watts:
What about commercial radio? Is it all small-ish towns so there's no companies running FM stations or  translators?

I've never had the opportunity to scan through a totally blank FM band, but I have when camping in the mountains went through a mostly blank one... (these days I'd just bring a MP3 player & battery speakers if I wanted music)

CBC radio is 'Canadian Broadcasting Corporation' - and yeah similar to what NPR is here.


@Mike: satellite radio .. um yeah .. as long as it is FREE like all radio should be LOL
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 02, 2015, 09:53:23 PM
SiriusXM is a GREAT investment here! The one here at the house broadcasts with a fraction of a watt or whatever on 88.3Mhz FM stereo...for a unit intended for a car it covers my house and yard pretty well...I'd say a good 100' strong range in stereo for sure, then maybe even 200' past that (albeit faint/underneath lots of static).
No "commercial" radio on FM here, but at night I can hear a couple AMs a couple hundred miles away from larger cities that do full-service-but-commercial, adult-contemporary-ish formats.  One airs 60s/70s/80s classic rock and disco from 6PM-midnight. (In the winter it gets dark early enough to hear it that early)
Mostly blank...have you ever had the experience of a blank FM band save for one (maybe even weak/scratchy?) station? I've been there/done that too.
The SiriusXM (well old enough to be just XM) radio here at my house is so old it's on "lifetime" (lifetime of the radio itself).  It's about knackered though, with sticky buttons, etc.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on April 02, 2015, 10:26:41 PM
I'd still never pay for Radio . or TV . so in that case I'd have to do without LOL

But your post made me remember/think of something:
I have one of those cheap little FM transmitters meant for connecting to your MP3 player so you can hear it on the car radio (one where you can also select anything within the normal FM band)...
One year I connected it to a computer's line out, selected the frequency I wanted & hung it in the window (this was during xmas season & I also put up a bunch of lights controlled by another computer (they didn't actually flash to the music like those houses you see on TV though))
I could get a clear signal a few houses in either direction (so a few hundred feet), and staticy/patchy for up to half a block. Quite good for a cheap unit, and in an area with allot of stuff.

I did one night find that I couldn't run the electronic-ballasted fluorescent I had in the room with the transmitter because it would cause a horrid squeal on the 'broadcast'
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 03, 2015, 01:21:27 PM
Interesting.  Did it transmit in stereo?
I'd like to find one of those too so I could play iTunes or Pandora all over my house and yard.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on April 03, 2015, 07:23:07 PM
Yep it does stereo :)
I've actually got a couple different versions, I believe that particular one came off eBay, and I have a few from the local Target store (their own brand) bought cheap on clearance after Christmas one year.

Both the 'Target' brand ons & the eBay one worked WAY better than those more expensive name-brand ones sold in most stores (I tried one of those first, it sucked so bad that I returned it and decided to look elsewhere)

---
I have my computer connected directly to my stereo so I can play MP3's on it.... and then things wired so I could also listen on another stereo in the main part of the house, and/or in the yard too.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 03, 2015, 07:47:17 PM
That sounds neat! I have 4 speakers (2 in garage/shop, 2 in house) and it covers my whole house with one tuner that way.  (Running on that small SiriusXM transmitter most of the time)
Gave the AM band a spin twice last night: Once when I went to bed and once at 4:30 this morning. It was a really good DX night, lots of stations actually!
I might also add here I really like the sound of FM stereo with a good signal.  Ever notice on a weak station the switching between noisy stereo and quiet mono?
And some stations have much better audio processing than a lot of others! I've heard a lot of FM stereo that was kinda overmodulated or whatever, it had it's own "tone" or whatever...know what I'm describing? It's not a noise per se but it kinda is.. Usually with really strong/local stations.
Also one of the maybe-soon-to-die translators here does mono, but music has a very unique, crisp  sound that way! (Especially stuff like harder rock)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 04, 2015, 09:28:38 PM
I hung up the Metalux 8' striplight with the Advance Mark III ballast today.  Same spot in my work room I had the Lithonia one at one point.  This time I hung it lower though.  I like how it turned out...nice and bright!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 05, 2015, 11:36:50 AM
Ah nice!!! ;D All my near-EOL fluorescents are still going strong. Who knows, maybe they'll keep working for a couple more years lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 05, 2015, 05:22:37 PM
Mine might too...after all most of  my lamps don't get but a couple hours a day, if that. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 05, 2015, 09:27:52 PM
Yeah my lights typically don't get more than a minute or two a day. Sometimes more but generally less than an hour per day (maybe even per week!)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 06, 2015, 12:16:45 AM
Some of mine get more than that but yeah...and mine always change, especially in my room! Right now I've got the 8ft slimline going.
Did a frustrating wiring project today, fixing a prior hack job of mine that stopped working...outlets wired with #12 SJTW quit working so I had to tear apart a box that I'd done a year or so ago that was a mess of multistrand and Romex wire and electrical tape.  I added a receptacle though.  I'm officially up to the "Really big red" wirenuts...umpteen things in one junction! And nothing's more annoying than wires in a box that are too short! My dad taught me to leave a loop of romex outside a box so more can be pulled in if needed at a later date. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 06, 2015, 08:06:36 PM
If you did it the "right way" you wouldn't have had to fix it. :P This new street light installation on my shed isn't going to be 100% to code but it's a temporary installation and it's away from the house and will only be energized when needed (so it'll be under supervision most of the time it's energized). Obviously there are issue that arise and prevent 100% code compliance but it sounds to me like that junction box is a rats' nest lol. Those "really big red" wire nuts are crazy for regular household wiring lol. I've used them in fixtures to tie all the neutrals together though.

BTW, I've gotten everything I need for my streetlight-on-the-shed project except for the 1-1/4" EMT (the most important piece lol) and a pair of long bolts, which I might be able to fine in my grandma/late-grandpa's basement. If not, they're probably only a couple of buck each... The EMT is $11. I spent $60 today on parts though. Mush more expensive than my existing mount, which consisted of a 40ft extension cord (i forget the cost of it; something like $30).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 06, 2015, 09:08:49 PM
How about "really big red" wirenuts holding one of those pigtail E26 lampholders you use for temporary lighting hanging outdoors in the rain attached to romex nailed to the side of the house? A neighbor's porch light has been like that for years, probably over a decade.
Not that I condone stuff like that at all...but it's the sort of thing I see all over around here, with no enforceable codes. 
Mike, want to see pics of some of the crazy issues in my house? I can share...and make you laugh at some of the strange things that would never meet code.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 07, 2015, 05:20:54 AM
LOL sure if you want to post pics it would be something interesting lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 07, 2015, 09:59:13 AM
I might do that then.  I will admit some of these hack jobs were done by me in the past.
And there's a few "Is this legal?" ones I might post that aren't normal but I wonder if would pass....additions made of SJTW extension cord but otherwise done right, etc.
When I hung up the slimline the other day I had to also use those big red wirenuts, since the ballast leads were attached to #12 or maybe even #10 stranded conduit wire inside the fixture channel to get them to the center, and splicing those to a fairly fat 3-prong cord required such big wirenuts. 
Wherever those fixtures were originally, they must have been ceiling-mounted, presumably to a round JB for any other smaller light fixture.  (There's a hole in the middle of the back of each light).  I bet hanging it like that with the wire splice just sitting inside there but open to air isn't totally legal either but it's not like anyone's going to touch it! As far as that goes, this was another hung-from-old-ballast-leads setup! (I've had good luck doing it this way, though for someone else I'd get a proper suspension kit or use something stronger at least)
It's officially to the time of year I've stopped running my woodstove so the average temp in this room is now about 50-60F without it going...on chilly mornings like this the F96T12 60w energy savers never quit striating.  They're OK here, but were useless in the unheated garage except for one or two hot summer days when they actually warmed up fully!
I'll probably post my code-violation pics on LG, since I already have a "Stupid and Dangerous things" album there (Ever seen that one? It has things worse than in my house I've seen).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 07, 2015, 10:21:49 AM
Oh and BTW I'm going to be getting soldering lessons eventually! That'll be handy.  I was talking with the person who does the lighting maintenance for the school building and has given me dozens of 4' lamps, a couple ballasts, and other things, and who also has the 1972 "Double deuce and a half"I'm interested in (No updates on that yet though), and they couldn't BELIEVE I didn't know how to solder! (I think we were discussing computer motherboards or something; between the two of us we have lots to talk about).
This will be helpful for almost any marine wiring project, as well as joining stranded wire.  Actually, come to think of it this came up while describing the "rat's nest" wiring job I did a couple days ago...I was lamenting on how annoying it is to join solid and stranded wires together in the same junction!
I'm going into the world of hardware stores in 10 days or so, but I doubt I'll have the chance to buy any slimline lamps, which I need, but I'll be too busy with other things. But hopefully by the end of next month I'll be able to, I'll have time and transportation can be arranged to get them to where I live.  Actually, though, I think I might wait until the end of the summer, I'll be spending much of the summer in/around Sitka I think, so toward the end I'll buy a case and stick it on the boat though I think it will ride around for a few week until I can get to them again, I need to be back here by August 24 for school.  My senior year too! (And probably last winter here, though I think I'll be back and forth during other times of the year)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 07, 2015, 04:26:13 PM
Yeah with the lower gauge wires you really need the big red wirenuts. I use the orange and yellow ones the most. I typically only use the blue ones for connecting two 18 gauge wires. Yeah my troffer has a big "void" on top where the wires come out. Not 100% compliant but who's going to check it? lol As long as the cord is protected from being cut by the fixture edges i'd say it's the least of your worries though if you were doing it for someone else I'd cover the big hole with tape or something to keep out dust and mice and use a standard 7/8" KO for the cable. I guess as long as it's strong enough the way you suspend it doesn't matter too much. My troffer is suspended with green/ground 10 gauge THHN (i think that's what it's called) and it's fine. The troffer weighs about 10 pounds though so it's not really that much weight.

I've never soldered before either. I'd like to get a cheap solder gun to do some small stuff like photocell repairs (right now I just twist the wires together in a tight knot, which works but isn't the most secure way to do things). Good luck with the lamps! I guess they're pretty hard to get up there! Lowe's sells a pretty nice selection of 75W Sylvania F96T12s in twin-packs and by the case but they're not too cheap...

BTW, I'm doing my first dead-ballast replacement! It's in my Applied Math teacher's light fixture (see the Lighting-Gallery for the newly-uploaded pic in my Indoor Lighting album). It's an 8ft tandem 4X F32T8 wrap light. I'll be using an IS replacement ballast instead of PS though...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 07, 2015, 08:54:35 PM
Yeah I've used the tiny gray ones before for ballast leads.  I use orange the most too if I can help it.
Yeah I'm getting a CASE of them (15) but will only use 10 max (5 fixtures).  In fact I was showing someone my collection today...including opening up one of the 8ft Metalux strips to show how big and heavy a slimline ballast is!
Working on the knife block again, I glued it to the base today and sanded the edges. 
Nice, I saw that on LG.  Sounds like fun! Are you still doing the construction shop hallway relamp job?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 07, 2015, 09:20:44 PM
I haven't found a good use for those tiny gray ones lol. I don't tend to use them except to cap off single wires. I've actually never seen a slimline ballast in person! I've never opened up any of my grandpa's slimlines or HOs. Something to think about though, next time I'm there.

Ah still working on the knife block? when you're done can you post a picture in the Off-Topic gallery on the LG? Or you could post it here, since it's not like anyone is policing pictures lol.

Nah I gave up on the relamp thing. I'm still going to try and sneak a pair of F40s in to fix the F40/RS light in the old automechanics shop if I can. I'll just tell the secretary that the hallway has a lot of dead lamps...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 07, 2015, 10:58:15 PM
Actually GOL has an off-topic gallery too...but sure I can post it.
Those are indeed good for capping off single wires, and the small blue ones are fine for a 2-prong cord being connected to ballast leads. 
And those "winged" yellow ones are good for almost anything; anything bigger and the big red ones have to be used.
Also, what's your opinion on the "ideal" push in connectors that take the place of wirenuts? I really like those a lot, I think if I ever have to get wirenuts I'd buy those provided they're not too expensive.
Yeah slimline ballasts are big.  I know you've seen one of mine I posted (a 1.45a Advance) since I remember you commented but pics do no justice.  If you want I could always post a scale photo with an A19 incandescent or a ruler or something for scale...
But I've never seen a F90T17 anything in person...that's my "Never seen in person".  Same for HO ballasts I think.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 08, 2015, 06:03:55 AM
Yeah but it's kinda tricky to add pics to the GoL one since it doesn't show up in the category dropbox on the upload page.

I've seen winged wirenuts but I've always disliked them for whatever reason. I prefer the "normal" ones. My opinion of the stab-in connectors instead of wirenuts? Meh... They act the same way as the stab-in connectors on outlets: not too good! The couple of times I've seen them used (in fluorescent fixtures) they've worked fine but I would never use them for actual building wiring connections, only in fluorescent fixtures.

Yeah T17s are BIG! Speaking of T17s, I will be removing the T17 from my great-aunts over the summer. That leaves just the 8ft F40T12 preheater tandem light at her house that I want. Everything else has either been replaced or retrofitted to T8.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 08, 2015, 09:37:24 AM
Will it be installed in your garage or something? Are lamps back in production again?
I hate the stab-in outlet connectors though. 
As for the 8ft tandem, what are your plans for a replacement for it? Could find a 2XF96 fixture somewhere and retrofit to single F32T8s per 4' section, as much as I hate those retrofit kits. 
So now you just need both T17s, the 8ft tandem preheater, and a few more 4' preheat shoplights from a relative's garage and basement (replacements already sitting in the garage, and a couple more in your aunt/uncle's basement, right? Or am I missing some along the way?
There was a time, when I was still sorta living in CA, that I was interested in the 2XF96 strips in my godfather's woodshop but that was before I found other slimline fixtures...but I'd said I'd be interested in at least one (He wanted to replace them with T5s).  I think he decided to keep them after I got the dead ones going again, which I think is even better....seeing "old" lights still in use.
They do have one of those 80s Regent yardlights with a /DX fully coated Westy Lifeguard lamp I'm interested in though.
And as for 8' fixtures, I'm on the lookout for a 4' and 8' HO now that I've satisfied my want for 8' slimlines (Though I'd gladly accept more).  At the time I got the last 4 8' Metalux strips I was intentionally putting collecting on hiatus since it looked like I might have to downsize into a much smaller living situation on a 72' boat but instead I ended up with this place shortly thereafter...anyway the 8 footers were too good to pass up and I figured I could always get rid of them later if I had to, I'm pretty sure I could find a good home for them.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 08, 2015, 08:21:41 PM
I just took the final quiz for my "Introduction to Nautical Skills" class just now.  All done! 107% for the class too! ;D :o
And the person who I was showing the slimline ballast (And I showed how to remove/install a slimline lamp) is going to be my skipper/captain this year.  Exciting.  We were up pretty late last night discussing our respective classes and the fun of all the paperwork and dealing with the Coast Guard. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 08, 2015, 08:37:49 PM
The T17 will just go into storage in my shed after i clean it out and stuff. Nope the lamps are never going to be made again unfortunately so these will only ever see light use. The stab-in outlet connectors are the same exact thing as the stab-in quick connectors to replace wirenuts. The only difference is the lack of an outlet. So if you hate the stab in outlet connectors I don't see why you like the stab-in quick connectors lol.

I'll probably replace the 8ft tandem unit with two single lamp F32T8 strips (non-tandem for easier transporting; i'll just mount them end-to-end). I'd like to eventually get the 8ft preheater but it's not at the top of my list.

Ah good luck getting the HOs! They seem quite a bit less common than slimlines, though I think 4ft HO would be more common than 4ft slimline. I've seen 4ft HOs for sale in stores but never seen 4ft slimlines for sale. I doubt they're common. I wouldn't mind an F48T12/HO fixture. Yeah since you have the house you can pretty much store all the lights you want, you just have to find a spot for them. You could always just mount lights in an unfinished spot of your house and not hook them up. It saves a lot of space and you can "store" lamps in the fixtures too. When my fixtures were piled up against the wall I didn't have lamps in most of them since I didn't want the lamps to break but the ones that are mounted do have lamps (except the 1X2 wood trim drop dish one; I can't put lamps in it since I installed it with eye-screws instead of drywall screws, so the eyepiece on them blocks the lamps from being inserted. The holes in the housing were too big for drywall screws and I didn't have washers so I used eye-screws lol).

I'm running out of space for fluorescents though. I have the shed for some 4ft ones and I guess I can fit some small fluorescents (like strips and other compact fixtures) but there's not even room on the ceiling for larger 4ft shoplights and stuff. Lately the ReStore hasn't had anything interesting (which I guess can be a good thing, since I can focus more on getting the lights from my family under my roof). Here's a complete inventory of what I hope to get from the family. Ones marked with an asterisk (*) are low-priority lights.

A-(4x) F40/RS Western Electric lights
A-(1x) mid-80s LOA shoplite with Philips-Westinghouse lamps* (the lamps are high-priority but the fixture really isn't...)
A-(1x) F90T17 over my late-grandpa's desk
A-(1x) 3X F20T12 preheat halfpiper fixture*
K-(1x) F40T12 8ft preheat tandem light*
K-(1x) F90T17 in the garage (removal already planned)
G-(3x) F40 Preheaters in the garage**
G-(3x) F40 preheaters in the basement**
R-(3x) Assorted F40 preheater shoplights
R-(1x) F20T12 deco preheater w/o glass endcaps

Double-asterisk items are high-priority but I feel funny asking to replace them so they're not at the top of the list. She might not want them removed since I got them all working (if I had thought ahead, I would have said the ballasts were "bad" and replaced the fixtures right then and there...)

A denotes lights at my grandma's and aunt's house (A for Alice, my grandma's name).
K denotes lights at my great-aunt's house (K for Kathy/Kathleen, my great-aunt's name).
G denotes lights at my cousins' grandma's house (G for Gerri/Geraldine, her name [Gerri is pronounced "Jerry"])
R denotes lights at my aunt's and uncle's house (R is for Roger, my uncle. My aunt's name is Kerri but I already used K...)

So the high-priority lights are the four Western Electric lights and the T17s. That's probably all I have room for. Those T17s are pretty huge and heavy. Who knows how much that shelf in the shed can actually hold. I have to get up on the shelf in the shed to add studs for the street light pole so hopefully it can at least hold me (200-210 pounds, yeah I'm a pretty big beast for only 5ft 5in lol). After I get those lights I will try and see if I can get Gerri's lights, or at least some of them. I'd actually prefer to get the basement ones since they're MUCH nicer looking and would probably only require a wipe-down. The garage ones definitely require a good sanding and new paint. Possibly new sockets too, though the bolt-on ones with screw terminals are pretty hard to find. I'm not going to chase down my aunt's and uncle's preheaters. They're gutting the basement *eventually* and when they do, the lights will be coming down so I'll get them then. I'll be livid if they toss the lights because they know I want them. The Western Electric lights will actually probably be the easiest to get since I see them every Friday. I could just replace one a night and be done after three Fridays. I have the T17's replacement lined up already. I'll probably ask to replace it after I get my great-aunt's T17 and make space on the shed's shelf/loft. I might have to reinforce the shelf though... It's just some 3/8" plywood nailed in on the three walls, coming out 4ft, and then a 2X4 running between the two opposing walls, running parallel to the wall with the window where I'm adding the light. I'll probably grab a couple more 2X4s and nail them to the roof trusses and then to the shelf/loft. I can't jack it up with studs underneath because the tractor parks under it and diagonal bracing would limit access to under the shelf.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 08, 2015, 10:00:02 PM
Nice way of organizing your list!
I hope the basement preheaters are not tossed!
BTW, (Especially Xmaslightguy) if you want to know what the radio sounds like around where I live this YT vid has some great audio clips of SE Alaska stations, 3 AMs of which can be picked up barely where I live, as well as a translator for KCAW 104.7.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FRY7z_A0Tc

I need to do some videos like this.  The Sitka part was taken a slight ways out of town, away from the total splatter of KCAW's transmitter (Remember me talking about a station that overrode the upper half of the FM band? That's the one!)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 09, 2015, 11:03:41 PM
Anyone else notice LG is seeking new admins? I'm almost toying with the idea of "applying" but I lack programming skills...but I'm sure on the site so much I almost owe something to them.  Dunno what their requirements are though (age, skill, etc).
Mike, I've actually been thinking for years now it wouldn't surprise me to see you eventually become an admin here on GOL.  Between you and I we comprise a pretty good chunk of the activity on here!

I worked more on the knife block, almost done! I gave it a coat of Minwax today after sanding it with plastic steel wool (Oxymoron, anyone?) Next is "wiping varnish" and umpteen coats of it, and since I only work on it twice a week it'll still be a few weeks before completion.

My slimline has sort of developed a raspy buzz, but I think it's one of the channel covers vibrating.  But that Advance Mark III has always been a rather noisy ballast, but it works quite well.  But the 60w energy saver lamps often never quit striating!


Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 10, 2015, 05:31:53 PM
They are? That's news to me... I wouldn't want to be an admin on the LG since its too active. I wouldn't mind being an admin here but we already have a small army's worth of admins here compared to LG and the LG is much larger. Most of the admins here are inactive though (but in their defense there's not really any things for them to need to step in for; the site pretty much runs itself since the few active members are all pretty close with one another and we keep things civil.

A few years ago Jace was looking for an additional admin for the Gol. It came down to me, Joe, and Niall. Joe ended up getting the position after impressing Jace by making the smileys in the gallery show up here. I thought it was pretty cool myself! So all the other admins are original and Joe is the most recent admin. At the time, the site was very active. Now it's becoming a ghost town here for whatever reason. Here's an example of what Joe did: (http://www.galleryoflights.org/mb/gallery/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif)

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 10, 2015, 06:14:50 PM
Neat, so you already were offered the position? Would you consider it in the future?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 10, 2015, 09:43:50 PM
At the time I would have loved to have been an admin but now IDK since soon enough I'll be working and won't have all the free time I've had. No, I wasn't offered the position. Joe was. It was between then three of us though. I was a "nominee" I guess...

BTW, I am redoing the outlets at my grandma's/aunt's house. Most of them have BX cable so I think I can simply replace the outlets and no GFCIs since the BX is grounded.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 10, 2015, 11:40:50 PM
Neat, save the old units if you can!
I found another neat radio forum, dedicated to "DXing" which is the hobby of listening to distant stations (Do you listen to weak/scratchy/staticky stations on purpose? When you can't sleep at 2AM do you go through the AM dial? If so you're like me in another respect besides lighting)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 11, 2015, 08:51:47 AM
I'll save any uncracked faceplates in good condition and will offer ungrounded outlets to people here and on LG if they want them but otherwise I'll toss them. Nope I hate listening to static stations and never listen to AM radio (AM is essentially dead around here).

BTW, I scored an American Electric 113 refractor today (polycarbonate) in perfect condition! Found it at my uncle's church. Probably should have asked for it but i don't see why they need it since they don't have any cobraheads lol. I also scored a 30" reflective stop sign today! The things only a few months old. It was installed around Christmas and got knocked down in February when we got the first snow storm and stayed buried until the snow melted. Last week they put up a new stop sign but left the old one on the ground. I had waited a week and it was still there so I swooped in for the kill, borrowing my dad's truck once it got dark and tossing it in the bed lol. The whole thing is about 8ft tall. The only problem is that I don't have a long enough socket wrench to loosen the bolts and a regular wrench won't fit so the sign is stuck on the pole until I can shorten the bolts with a sawzall or something (I don't own one though) and then I can use my socket wrench.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 11, 2015, 11:39:13 PM
Neat, are you going to display it? A neighbor has a STOP sign on display on their house, in a place without cars!
Ah I've been removing a lot of 3/4" lag screws and bolts, but today I dropped a nice 3/4" chrome wrench in the water in the marina! Gone forever...Grrr!
Oh the Sawzall should be everyone's favorite power tool, I use mine (Well, my dad's but pretty much mine) all the time.  Cutting anything metal, even with the right blade, can be miserable though, it takes forever and vibrates your hands off! (Trust me from experience). 
I started recording some ballast sounds tonight, I've always wanted to make a ballast sounds compilation.  It sounds really violent though when you put the tablet on top of a suspended fixture, my already-loud slimline sounds really intense! Then that buzzy Universal Therm-O-Matic...what was really violent sounding (video is dark, just sound) was the shuffling sound from other things I was moving around at the same time, it sounds really loud!
But I'm going to try to record other ballast sounds as well...I might put it up on my YouTube account..I wonder if I leave the info out if LG friend's like you could figure out what's what? (Slimline, preheat choke, etc).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 12, 2015, 07:01:09 AM
I think I'm going to store it in the shed with the others once I get it off the pole. It's virtually brand-spankin' new! ;D BTW, it's also got a small "ALL WAY" plaque underneath it  so it looks like this.  (http://thumb7.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/71710/71710,1186286610,1/stock-photo-all-way-stop-sign-to-let-drivers-know-that-everyone-at-that-intersection-has-to-stop-4348834.jpg)

LOL at the ballast recordings. I find that they sound different on film.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 12, 2015, 10:24:24 AM
On film or recorded period? They sound more intense on a recording! Headphone users beware type video, that's for sure...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 12, 2015, 06:33:55 PM
Recording period...

BTW, I got the light-on-shed project finished today! i decided to mount my OV-10IB on the pole too. It's plugged in as I type this (175W MV with a 1990 Sylvania BT28 /DX lamp and a 1989 Ripley SunSwitch). I took pics of the finished product and will post later.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on April 12, 2015, 08:45:22 PM
That sounds neat! I have 4 speakers (2 in garage/shop, 2 in house) and it covers my whole house with one tuner that way.  (Running on that small SiriusXM transmitter most of the time)
In my case its 5 speakers in the bedroom (surround sound), same thing in the familyroom, and 2 in the basement, each room having its own receiver/amp unit so they can individually be on or off or at different volumes
(the bedroom in the 'main' room where the computer is, if I want to "send" music  out to the others (be it from computer/cd/whatever) that system has to be on.
Also have 4 speakers for the yard, 2 being a normal stereo pair, and 2 more at the back of it on a delay unit... but for the yard speakers to be on the basement has to be on too. (for the most part the yard speakers just sit off/disconnected in the shed though)


Quote from: GEsoftwhite100watts
Gave the AM band a spin twice last night: Once when I went to bed and once at 4:30 this morning. It was a really good DX night, lots of stations actually!
I might also add here I really like the sound of FM stereo with a good signal.  Ever notice on a weak station the switching between noisy stereo and quiet mono?
And some stations have much better audio processing than a lot of others! I've heard a lot of FM stereo that was kinda overmodulated or whatever, it had it's own "tone" or whatever...know what I'm describing? It's not a noise per se but it kinda is.. Usually with really strong/local stations.
Also one of the maybe-soon-to-die translators here does mono, but music has a very unique, crisp  sound that way! (Especially stuff like harder rock)
4:30 in the morning is practically staying up all night :o  lol.
My receiver if it doesn't detect a good stereo FM signal will just remain silent (and on the fringe stations, instead of getting all static-y that means the sound would cut in & out)
I allot of stations use "compressor" units to flatten out the difference between loud & quiet on music. (ever notice how some CD's are recorded way louder than others?). I also think some try to broadcast the sound at max volume, almost to the point where they're overdriving it.


Yeah my lights typically don't get more than a minute or two a day. Sometimes more but generally less than an hour per day (maybe even per week!)
Depends on the light, I've got plenty that only get brief times like that, and others that get a few hours per day...then there's the houseplants and fishtank plants, that get 10h per day.


I've gotten everything I need for my streetlight-on-the-shed project except for the 1-1/4" EMT ..  I spent $60 today on parts though.
:o :o Wow.. I could never spend that much on a project, especially if that doesn't include the light. lol.  lol

 
Mike, want to see pics of some of the crazy issues in my house? I can share...and make you laugh at some of the strange things that would never meet code. 
Post away!


Oh and BTW I'm going to be getting soldering lessons eventually! That'll be handy.
My dad showed me how to do that a looong time ago. I was probably in elementary school (ofcourse I couldn't use the soldering iron unless he was there til I got older..)


In fact I was showing someone my collection today...including opening up one of the 8ft Metalux strips to show how big and heavy a slimline ballast is! 
Just wait til you come across a VHO ballast, they probably weigh twice that of a slimline!
(basically think of 2 slimline ballasts stacked ontop of eachother, that's around the size.)


BTW, (Especially Xmaslightguy) if you want to know what the radio sounds like around where I live this YT vid has some great audio clips of SE Alaska stations, 3 AMs of which can be picked up barely where I live, as well as a translator for KCAW 104.7.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FRY7z_A0Tc
I'll have to check that out when my other computer is on :)


Anyone else notice LG is seeking new admins?
Didn't see that. Would probably be neat to do, but even if I met whatever requirements they need, I simply wouldn't have the time...


record other ballast sounds as well...
LOL. at one point I had recorded some various 'fluorescent' sounds - starters, ballasts, etc ... I had planned to put those together with some other stuff and make a "song" out of it :D


BTW, I got the light-on-shed project finished today! i decided to mount my OV-10IB on the pole too. It's plugged in as I type this (175W MV with a 1990 Sylvania BT28 /DX lamp and a 1989 Ripley SunSwitch). I took pics of the finished product and will post later.
Cool! deff want to see that pic :)


-------
and wow that turned into a giant beast of a post :MV: kinda like a VHO ballast is a beast...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 12, 2015, 09:07:10 PM
Interesting, 5 speakers!
I'm currently reading more on this iBiquity "HD Radio", it's kinda interesting and mysterious to me as I've never heard it in person (or seen a radio that even decodes such)
It wasn't staying up all night, I woke up and couldn't fall back asleep.
Last night seemed like a really bad night for the distant FM translator I was listening to, it barely came in at all whereas other times it's pretty clear in my room, even easily switching into stereo, though it won't always "keep" the stereo signal (I can hear the difference between hissy stereo and quiet mono on a headset unit which I use for late night listening so I don't disturb the 2 other people currently here)
I've heard of them doing that...muting if the signal is below a certain point
Yeah some have way compressed audio.  The local NPR station broadcasts in mono (And it's on FM!) but music has a very unique, crisp sound nonetheless.  If I ever get some good equipment I'll record some of the stations around here...including skywave AM signals at night.
Ever heard of "E-skip" with FM? I'm also reading up on that.
I'd love to find an 8ft VHO!
Mike, I saw the pics on LG and commented on them.  It'll be cool when you can light them both up at once! Then try reading a newspaper out there LOL.

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 12, 2015, 09:09:17 PM
Oh and BTW Xmaslightguy, I've been meaning to mention I always "hear" your posts in the "robot voice" heard in your YT vids...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 12, 2015, 09:16:32 PM
xmaslightguy; yeah I don't want to think about how much money I have spent on lighting stuff over the past few years. And I'm not even 18 yet! lol. BTW, I posted pics of the installation.

Andy; check the GoL for the stop sign pic if interested. It's also on LG in the off-topic gallery.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 12, 2015, 09:19:14 PM
I saw the stop sign pic.  Nice score! I should start collecting signs, they're always cool, regardless of what they are!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 12, 2015, 09:34:50 PM
I bet it's kinda hard to collect on an island with no cars lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on April 12, 2015, 09:53:32 PM
Interesting, 5 speakers!
I'm currently reading more on this iBiquity "HD Radio", it's kinda interesting and mysterious to me as I've never heard it in person (or seen a radio that even decodes such)
It wasn't staying up all night, I woke up and couldn't fall back asleep.
Last night seemed like a really bad night for the distant FM translator I was listening to, it barely came in at all whereas other times it's pretty clear in my room, even easily switching into stereo, though it won't always "keep" the stereo signal (I can hear the difference between hissy stereo and quiet mono on a headset unit which I use for late night listening so I don't disturb the 2 other people currently here)
I've heard of them doing that...muting if the signal is below a certain point
Yeah some have way compressed audio.  The local NPR station broadcasts in mono (And it's on FM!) but music has a very unique, crisp sound nonetheless.  If I ever get some good equipment I'll record some of the stations around here...including skywave AM signals at night.
Ever heard of "E-skip" with FM? I'm also reading up on that.
I'd love to find an 8ft VHO!

h and BTW Xmaslightguy, I've been meaning to mention I always "hear" your posts in the "robot voice" heard in your YT vids...
Yep 5 speakers, standard 'Dolby pro-logic surround' setup (there's the newer "5.1" version that is also 5 speakers.. oh and a 7.1 / 7 speaker version exists too) I'm fine with the older setup though

I deff like the 'HD Radio', even though its by no means perfect.
I've seen car radios that do it, don't remember seeing it on any home stereo-systems, I bought a separate HD tuner & connected it to my existing stereo, really its just another 'stereo thing' like a CD or tape player. Maybe I'll make a vid of it on YouTube someday.

Yeah most modern digital tuners will mute the sound like that if they don't get a clean stereo signal.
Never heard of "E-skip" .. I'll have to google that one.

I've got 4 VHO ballasts (no fixtures though):
2x48",  4x48", 1x96", 2x96" 

The 'robot voice' is pretty much just that, I make my computer do the "talking" on those videos.
Me on a recording is a horrid thing :-[


xmaslightguy; yeah I don't want to think about how much money I have spent on lighting stuff over the past few years. And I'm not even 18 yet! lol. BTW, I posted pics of the installation.
Same here, I really wouldn't want to know how much I've spent on lights, especially looking at both xmas lights & fluorescent combined. I shudder to think how much 'crap' I'd have if things like the web, eBay and ReStores   existed when I was your age. (especially if I was as much into lights then as now)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 13, 2015, 06:02:50 AM
Yeah that robot voice is cool. Always wondered how you did it lol.

Yeah it's a lot of money but I'd say its worth it. Hopefully this stuff holds its value and when my toes are ready to curl, I can sell it all and my family will have some extra dough laying around. Not for a LOOONG time though. I'd like to think i still have a few good decades left.

Andy, BTW that wooden ladder you mentioned on LG is marked 4-84. 1984 it's from. Older than I thought...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 13, 2015, 10:22:16 AM
Oh wow, it just had it's 31st birthday then!
I prefer to think that yeah, this stuff will hold its value, or become even more valuable as time goes on! I'd also like to think whatever my collection consists of when I die goes to some other enthusiast. 
Oh and I did some more reading on RDS too!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 13, 2015, 02:58:01 PM
Yeah my dad took pretty good care of it! My dad was 18 when the ladder was made. Maybe he got it as a birthday present or something lol.

Yeah I will probably part with my more rare/vintage items before I pass (that is if I have a warning...). It sounds counter-intuitive to part with my most valued items first but I want to guarantee that those items go to another enthusiast and not items at a yard sale or end up being scrapped.

BTW, I got four new/NOS Advance F32T8/IS ballasts today. Nothing really special. Three are four lamp high-light versions and the other is a three lamp that doesn't mention light output so I assume it's NBF. I also got an NOS GE SPX27 PL-9 lamp.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 13, 2015, 07:24:41 PM
ReStore I assume?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 13, 2015, 08:53:35 PM
Nope I got them through construction class. We were at one of the middle schools in the stock room putting up a partition and I stumbled upon all sorts of lighting and electrical stuff so I filled my pockets lol. Well, I grabbed the four ballasts. My friend Phil had actually grabbed the lamp for me and gave it to me. I had no idea he had taken it. I guess it was wrong to just take them but they'll never know the difference... :-\
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 13, 2015, 09:38:51 PM
You are so evil! I've never done THAT, but still felt "guilty" when grabbing Mainlighters from my school and the trash shed behind the city hall/library/community center building here, even with permission, I made sure I did it when nobody else was looking LOL.    And this took weeks on end, carrying a few lamps at a time, sometimes just one.  Add to that walking  up to about a mile with them, depending which route I was taking home that day!
I did once nab some 22w circlines from an abandoned house but that's more of a "It isn't stealing if nobody cares" (As a YouTube friend put it very well!) It'll usually just get destroyed by either time or vandals, though I still wouldn't "reccomend" doing it that way, though it always depends on how long the place has been abandoned...if it's open to the outdoors (broken windows, doors off hinges, etc) I personally kinda consider it fair game.  But to others I'd still say find out who owns the place then ask permission...LOL
And someone's abandoned, falling-down garage yielded all sorts of goodies about 3 years ago now...that one was with permission though.  Found: An Ace F40CW that's basically a GE Mainlighter with a different name, a Sears "Soft Brite" lamp with Sylvania Lifeline endcaps, a couple warm white Westy blackender F40s, (One was dead with no vacuum and it later broke, the other is still in there and is missing an endcap...I should grab it anyway though, the building is still there and try to "repair" it later, some GE 22w circline adapters with Ace 22w cool white lamps (I remember firing those up for the first time expecting ugly halophosphate WW not looking at what the lamps were and being pleasantly surprised to see them light up cool white!), and some other goodies as well.
Another abandoned place I know of has an abandoned screw-in fuse panel laying on the ground outside with vintage glass fuses...I should grab that one, the place has been vacant for probably decades and is open to the elements.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on April 13, 2015, 09:46:07 PM
Quote from: Mike
Yeah that robot voice is cool. Always wondered how you did it lol.
The robot voice thingie is a little program that came with a soundcard I got years ago. I type what I want it to say, and then hit play & it reads the text :) (then I just use a 2nd computer to record it). Turned out to be very handy for videos .lol.
What takes the longest with making videos is editing/putting all the little parts together/getting sound lined up with picture...


Quote from: GEsoftwhite100watts
I prefer to think that yeah, this stuff will hold its value, or become even more valuable as time goes on! I'd also like to think whatever my collection consists of when I die goes to some other enthusiast. 
Oh and I did some more reading on RDS too!
Yeah you gotta hope the stuff atleast holds the value of whatever you paid...
Ofcourse the 'hard part' in its value is finding the right person who knows exactly what it is.

Then there's always... you get enough enjoyment out of using/seeing it that its worth it to you.
I know I could never use all the fluorescent lamps & stuff I have. someone will have to deal with it when I reach EOL (unless at some point I decided to sell stuff stuff)
I do plan to try & sell off a bunch of 'nothing special' (ie: just standard) sets of xmas lights since I'll never use those.

RDS is a pretty neat little thingie :)

...ugg the FM HD-2 channel I want to listen to tonight keeps cutting in & out . I've had enough of that time to go change it .  must be a bad signal for some reason tonight.


Quote from: Mike
I guess it was wrong to just take them but they'll never know the difference... :-\
Probably so...but oh well what's done is done .lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 13, 2015, 11:47:12 PM
Do you notice the "hiss" from IBOC on the adjacent channels at all in your area? From what I've read if, for example, you had a station at 103.1 102.9 and 103.3 would be practically unusable, especially for DXing distant stations on those channels, they're filled with "hash" from IBOC.  Do you notice this on an analog tuner? I've also read it can make the analog signal itself kinda hissy.
LOL yeah it's worth it to me I guess.  I have enough F40s to last my life and then some LOL.  Mostly warm white Mainlighters, which are relatively rare I guess, though not to me!
So does the HD2 go back to the "analog1" or just nothing?
I was reading that in theory with a total conversion to digital FM like with analog TV back in 2009, the HD signals could have their power boosted to more than what they are now (I think it's 1/10 of the station's analog ERP (Effective Radiated Power), for example on a 10,000 watt station you could only have a 1KW HD signal.  But supposedly if that switchover happened you could boost it to the normal strength and get rid of a lot of interference since it could use the same channel...in theory it SHOULD work anyplace a good FM stereo signal does but I think it would "drop out" instead of losing stereo of reverting to analog (the current system) if the signal gets weak, right? Bye-Bye DX'ing in a few decades I guess LOL.
HOWEVER...I've also read that HD radio has already reached it's peak and is declining and going the way of AM stereo, at least on AM.  I've heard of FM stations dropping it, and/or RDS, as well.
So an FM station could do FM stereo, RDS, AND IBOC, right? I wonder if that is actually allowed and how horrible the adjacent channels must sound?
And...what about all the analog radios? Would we need "converter boxes" for our vintage tuners/amplifiers?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 14, 2015, 06:04:34 AM
Wow EVIL? lol I think that's better fit for a murderer or terrorist. :P It's not like they're gonna know the difference since they ere tossed in a giant heap on a shelf, not even organized in any way. Although I have to be honest, if I knew I could get away with it I would have wiped that place clean of lighting stuff lol. They had everything from PAR floods to tubular incandescents, PLs, F32T8s, wallpacks, ballasts, all sorts of conduit, nuts and bolts, all kinds of stuff. They even had an old giant upholstered chair down there lol.

Well anyway, I am installing the AmbiStar Advance ballast in my applied math teacher's light today.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 14, 2015, 09:16:40 AM
Neat, hope that goes well! Are you doing this during the actual class period?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 14, 2015, 03:51:53 PM
Yep I did it during the class. Turns out the old ballast was an instant start so it was as easy as matching the wire colors and snipping off the excess wire. The old ballast was a Sylvania HPF LBF instant start. New ballast was an Advance NPF NBF instant start. Really weird that the Sylvania is an IS, because I am positive that all the other lights in the building are PROGRAMMED start. Even the other lights in his room are PS, because when I flick the switch, the light I fixed comes on a second before all the others.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on April 14, 2015, 03:55:38 PM
Heh, I've gotten lights at school before. I scored a single lamp F40 reflector fixture and a F20 reflector fixture back in high school. Both came with 1960s CGE HPF RS ballasts with cloth wires. I fused both lights and installed them in my garage. I suppose I could still score lights from my university. There was a huge pile of surface mount 1x4 lights and 2x4 troffers in a big pile next to a dumpster I could have taken. They were all converted to T8 so I didn't bother lol. If they had a louvered fixture I'd probably take one home and then convert it back to F40 RS/PH.  

I wonder if the ballast in the light had been replaced before since it was IS instead of PS. I know my high school originally had troffers with PS ballasts (which replaced 1x4 RS F40 troffers) but some lights with replacement ballasts were IS.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 14, 2015, 04:27:22 PM
Yeah my only guess to that is that the original ballast was dead when they installed the fixture so the electrician installing the fixtures stuck in an IS ballast. But what are the odds that the replacement ballast would EOL so soon as well? He said it's been out for at least a couple years and the fixtures were installed in 2011.

I buy T8 fixtures at the ReStore if they have a decent ballast just for the ballast. Then I use the ballast in other fixtures to replace F40/RS ballasts to add to the collection lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on April 14, 2015, 10:19:54 PM
Quote from: GEsoftwhite100watts
Do you notice the "hiss" from IBOC on the adjacent channels at all in your area? From what I've read if, for example, you had a station at 103.1 102.9 and 103.3 would be practically unusable, especially for DXing distant stations on those channels, they're filled with "hash" from IBOC.  Do you notice this on an analog tuner? I've also read it can make the analog signal itself kinda hissy.
I'd really have to test and see...

Quote
So does the HD2 go back to the "analog1" or just nothing?
HD2 just goes silent, HD1 goes to analog, since it'd be the same program.

Quote
I was reading that in theory with a total conversion to digital FM like with analog TV back in 2009, the HD signals could have their power boosted to more than what they are now (I think it's 1/10 of the station's analog ERP
Yep in theory if they did a total conversion to digital FM, then it'd be full power... as for now from what I read  its actually 1/100th (ie: 1 watt per every 100) for the digital. I don't believe there is any plans to (or even discussions) of going digital in the future. I deff wouldn't hold your breath on it happening LOL

Quote
I've also read that HD radio has already reached it's peak and is declining and going the way of AM stereo, at least on AM.  I've heard of FM stations dropping it, and/or RDS, as well.
So an FM station could do FM stereo, RDS, AND IBOC, right? I wonder if that is actually allowed and how horrible the adjacent channels must sound?
Some stations have dropped HD, most likely due to the high fees paid to iBiquity (who knows though with the economy getting better maybe some will pick up the HD again)
I  could honestly see HD-radio ending up as a failed experiment..its now well marked, and HD receiver/tuner/etc units aren't all that common. If they want it to succeed they're gonna have to do allot more, either that or open it up so there isn't a single company controlling things.

Yep stations can do all 3, and I think all those that do HD also do RDS (and ofcourse all FM's whether they do HD or not are stereo). There is one station that for some reason runs their HD2 in mono :( if it weren't for that it would be a good channel ??? they might as well just kill the HD2 stream.

Quote
And...what about all the analog radios? Would we need "converter boxes" for our vintage tuners/amplifiers?
vintage  analog radio... pick it up, throw it in the trash LOL (I'm sure that's what they'd want you to do with it. Ofcourse you could always get a digital tuner, and one of those little FM broadcast thingies :) then tune in your "station")
vintage amplifier... you'd get a digital tuner like I have & plug it into one of the inputs.


Quote from: Mike
Wow EVIL? lol I think that's better fit for a murderer or terrorist. :P It's not like they're gonna know the difference since they ere tossed in a giant heap on a shelf, not even organized in any way. 
Sounds like a mess of randomness :8) they probably have no idea whats even in there. Not a very good way of keeping track of inventory.
Ofcourse you never know when there might be a camera watching...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 15, 2015, 05:27:50 AM
Yeah I thought about the camera thing but that place is so old and it's off-limits anyway (we were in there because we were building a partition/wall). The funny thing is that they aren't even allowed to do anything more then change light bulbs, so that section of electrical stuff must belong to the school system's electrician or something. But that doesn't make sense either...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 15, 2015, 09:38:57 AM
Nice, at least it works now! I bet it's much brighter in there now!
I got a pair of late 70s Metalux/Gibson 1X4 surface mount troffers from the 1979 wing of my school during my freshman year.  One has a Universal Therm-O-Matic ballast which works fine but is a little on the loud side and the other has a thermal-cutout-tripping Advance Kool-Koil.  I also used another half-dead Universal to make it a 3-lamper fixture. I've also gotten lots of 4' lamps from there...all T12, some vintage!
Xmaslightguy, I'll be going on a trip this week and intend to do some bandscanning and DXing for sure.  I'll post results.  I'll finally be in places in Alaska with full FM dials! (Anchorage and Fairbanks).  The whole thought of metropolitan areas in Alaska is admittedly funny to me, considering I'm used to the rural areas!
And Mike: I'm going to try to get the rules-of-the-road book as a precursor to learning to drive.  Then I think when I go off for college I'll take the test, giving me a year and a half to study up in advance.  IDK what my first vehicle will be though.  A friend and I were talking about learning to drive yesterday and I (After providing the disclaimer that it is totally ridiculous) mentioned the bizarre idea of driving a deuce and a half around every day LOL.  We were laughing pretty good at the thought of parking one of those in the driveway in some cookie-cutter development: "Look for the one with the army truck parked in the driveway" and irritating the homeowner's association. Which leads me to sharing this:


OK, another bizarre (albeit non-lighting) dream I remember vividly last night: (Well, two of them actually!)
#1 included driving a 5-ton ex-army truck up my "driveway" (It's funnier if you see it in person though it would be totally possible).  I woke up at some oh-dark-thirty and had to shake my head and laugh even then LOL.  Ridiculous...but something I would totally do, as my dreams often are!
And #2, even cooler to me personally, was finding out some history (in pictures, articles, and other documentation) of the boat I'm involved with...and finding such stuff in weird places! I think it included: Some creepy lawyer settling my (mom's?) estate, (It's been settled for a year now), a bank teller, some Coast Guard leiutenant, and others.  Found some other surveys (insurance, etc) also I think...but the pics were of the most bizarre things/spots on there.  I remember getting all that stuff upon request or whatever, and having that "thank you thank you thank you!" vibe before being awakened to Train's "Hey, Soul Sister" this morning on the clock radio LOL.  

And interesting, was this a wall you were studding up Mike?
Yeah good point, you could use a analog mini transmitter to rebroadcast it to a vintage tuner, etc. (Something I'd also like to find, they're another hobby/interest, I have several as you can probably see from Mike and I chatting back and forth.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 15, 2015, 04:06:13 PM
Yeah it's much brighter. You don't have to live in a HOA neighborhood. You won't catch me dead with a home in a "cookie-cutter neighborhood" lol. I want a nice large lot with a fully-private back yard for my lighting stuff (I don't need some newsbag neighbors seeing all my lights lol). I don't really have any major "requirements" for my house itself other than it being a decent size and having a nice large unfinished basement (aka not a raised ranch! lol).

I'm going to Florida for vacation next week! We're driving down (we must be high or something, deciding to drive that far lol) and we're leaving very early Friday morning (like 5AM). So you won't hear from me Friday or probably Saturday either.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on April 15, 2015, 08:52:35 PM
Quote from: Mike
The funny thing is that they aren't even allowed to do anything more then change light bulbs, so that section of electrical stuff must belong to the school system's electrician or something. But that doesn't make sense either...
That makes sense to me, since at the building where I work, only the electrician can change ballasts/etc, (and he generally is the one doing bulbs too.)


Quote from: GEsoftwhite100watts
Xmaslightguy, I'll be going on a trip this week and intend to do some bandscanning and DXing for sure.  I'll post results.  I'll finally be in places in Alaska with full FM dials! (Anchorage and Fairbanks).  The whole thought of metropolitan areas in Alaska is admittedly funny to me, considering I'm used to the rural areas!
Cool...
And its always fun to check out the radio stations when you're going somewhere :)

For me its just the opposite, I live just outside city limits of a large-ish city...so everything is convenient, anything I need is in the suburbs, and if I wanted to go into the city its not all that far (though i rarely go downtown)

Quote
deuce and a half
1st time I saw that term posted (couple weeks ago on LG) I had to google it to see what it was .lol.

Quote
We were laughing pretty good at the thought of parking one of those in the driveway in some cookie-cutter development: "Look for the one with the army truck parked in the driveway" and irritating the homeowner's association.
some of those neighborhoods you can't even park a car in the driveway, has to be in the garage.

Quote
Yeah good point, you could use a analog mini transmitter to rebroadcast it to a vintage tuner, etc. (Something I'd also like to find, they're another hobby/interest, I have several as you can probably see from Mike and I chatting back and forth.
Too bad you didn't live in Colorado or I could sell one of those mini transmitters cheap (bought multiple when Target had them on clearance LOL .. ofcourse I have no idea where I put them, probably behind that big old pile ox xmas lights (that now has my 4' T12 lamps behind it too .. its pretty much impossible to get to anything anymore....)

I've got a few other hobby/interests besides lights too .. tropical fish, plants, computers.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 16, 2015, 09:44:14 AM
I've heard of the only-electricians-can-do-that thing before plenty of times myself. 
Yeah I'll post results of what I hear!
Yeah it's convenient living near a city, though a more rural place is really nice too IMO. It's weird, here there's no city lights or constant traffic noise, so I REALLY notice that when I go elsewhere, then REALLY notice the opposite when I return here!
LOL yeah it's not the most intuitive term as far as contextual clues are concerned LOL. 
Yeah here my neighbors would probably die laughing seeing that in my yard, but have long since accepted I'm "that" neighbor.  Despite not really having any roads to speak of here, if I got one at first it just might have to sit here, the only place to keep one LOL.  (And see how long it takes for the neighbors to notice/comment/take pictures LOL)
Wow not even in the driveway! What about visitors?
I used to be into fish but not so much anymore, I had a 30 gallon freshwater aquarium in my bedroom!
I would live in a "cookie cutter" neighborhood if I HAD to/needed a place (close to a college, rent was cheap or something) but I would never WANT one LOL. Friends visit my house and laugh about how it's anything BUT a cookie cutter!
I wouldn't care if my neighbors saw my lights, Deuce, (or 5-ton) and other "junk" though to be honest...though already my house has a nice hidden backyard for all that stuff! I'd probably display most of my streetlights actually if I had any, though I suppose there's always the vandalism issue LOL.
Same here, I want something a decent size and wouldn't mind a basement or detached shop.  No offense to yours but I hate those raised-ranch split-level-entryway houses, there's NO escaping the need for going up and down stairs! That layout wastes so much space IMO.  And they look too "Cookie-cutter" LOL.  (I see that "Design" all the time around here).  Another thing: You've shown the streetview, etc of yours and it's on a more or less flat lot, whereas those are usually better on hilly lots. 
The house in Atascadero was on like a 35% grade for the whole lot! That driveway was interesting for sure, especially people who didn't know how to back out. 
The one I really hate though are single-file driveways with lots of cars: "Who's leaving first in the morning?"

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 16, 2015, 10:14:37 AM
Oh and I forgot...there is such a thing as mono FM stations! I think stereo actually cuts down on the fringe reception range, I know a case where a station tried stereo (well actually it was a low-power translator) and it dramatically reduced it's listenable reception area.  It went back to mono LOL.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 16, 2015, 03:09:51 PM
Yeah I want to have a rural yard but want to only be a stone's throw from urban areas with stores. I don't want to be isolated. BTW, I got the NO PARKING ANY TIME sign from my Applied Match teacher. He had it sitting in the chalk ledge and leaning up against the chalk board when I walked into class lol. It was a little "Thank You" for fixing his light since I had expressed interest in the sign before lol. The sign is reflective and originally had an arrow pointing right but when it was installed they had added an arrow to the left making it a double arrow so part of the arrow isn't reflective while the rest of the sign is lol.

Oh no offense taken. I love the house we live in since we're the original owners and it's a well-built house but i definitely do not like raised ranch style houses either. My yard does have a little bit of a slope though. The backyard is higher than the front yard. The ground is "cut out" for the driveway and garage too.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on April 16, 2015, 08:30:43 PM
Quote from: GEsoftwhite100watts
here there's no city lights or constant traffic noise, so I REALLY notice that when I go elsewhere, then REALLY notice the opposite when I return here!
Plenty of city lights here - especially looking north (and east too)
North ofcourse would be the direction I'm facing if I was sitting out on the patio or deck.. basically forget stargazing from home :lol:
I don't notice traffic-noise inside, but its always there in the background if I'm out in the yard...

Quote
Yeah here my neighbors would probably die laughing seeing that in my yard,
Have no idea what most of the neighbors would think if they saw something like that parked infront of the house, but there's a couple that I know would be right over checking it out, probably as soon as it pulled up :o  lol

Quote
  Wow not even in the driveway! What about visitors?
I think its mostly for overnight parking, but I really don't know, maybe you'd have to get a 'visitor pass' or something. to me personally such a neighborhood would be a good place to avoid .lol.

Quote
I used to be into fish but not so much anymore, I had a 30 gallon freshwater aquarium in my bedroom! 
There was a time when I had a couple dozen freshwater aquariums and 2 saltwater. :D Now its just a few freshwater.

Quote
Oh and I forgot...there is such a thing as mono FM stations!
I guess that'd be ok if it was a news/talk station... but for music, that would totally ruin it.

Quote from: Mike
Yeah I want to have a rural yard but want to only be a stone's throw from urban areas with stores. 
That's pretty much me. I'm spoiled, I need to be close to stores, so I can go grab something and be back home in less than a hour. 


I'd love to have a couple acres (not so much a "landscaped yard" but) space to grow vegetables, and fruit trees ... plus have  a nice big shop/storage building... and a greenhouse... and a indoor pool would be cool too.

 --
I'm also not a fan of those 'raised-ranch' (or what they call bi-level here) houses.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 17, 2015, 10:31:40 AM
Where I lived in Atascadero, CA  it was east and north for city lights.  And to the east was on a different section of the power grid (I recall instances of seeing the east lit up but us without power, and vice-versa)  Stargazing was doable but not great. The high school would sometimes have their 1500w MH ballfield lights on and those were bright and would light the place up on a rainy night for sure. I saw some good meteor showers there though (Should've tried FM DXing for freak stuff then if I'd known).  If I still had that house I'd stick up an FM antenna on the roof for sure.  
Same there, you'd always notice it outside.  Here I hear the occasional outboard motor, 4-wheeler, or chainsaw.  (On nice days is when it's the noisiest, everyone driving around doing chores and cutting firewood) But somebody here got a mini excavator so we now have the "backup sound" in town now LOL.
That couple...out of annoying nosieness or "That's really cool!"
Worst part would be firing that thing up every morning leaving for work LOL...that might make the neighbors complain; that could be an issue for someone like me who would totally keep it as an only vehicle, driving it every day LOL.
I know several mono FMs here in Alaska. Some are translators but at least one is a parent station.  Case in point, KCAW 104.7 Sitka, AK.   They're NPR but do a lot of music too but have a unique sound being in mono but also their range is impressive, you can hear that radio station quite a way out of town before it fades away completely.
Could a mono FM have a stereo HD setup? And can low-power translators have HD?




Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on April 17, 2015, 09:26:02 PM
Quote from: GEsoftwhite100watts
Where I lived in Atascadero, CA  it was east and north for city lights.  And to the east was on a different section of the power grid (I recall instances of seeing the east lit up but us without power, and vice-versa)  Stargazing was doable but not great. The high school would sometimes have their 1500w MH ballfield lights on and those were bright and would light the place up on a rainy night for sure. I saw some good meteor showers there though (Should've tried FM DXing for freak stuff then if I'd known).  If I still had that house I'd stick up an FM antenna on the roof for sure. 
There's a small creek that runs through my neighborhood (we're talking the type a thing you could easily jump across) ... been plenty of times when I've seen the power off on one side of it, but not the other.

Yeah those big ballfield lights.. there's a park about a mile from me, and they're easily visible when on LOL
(the highschool here doesn't have any, but its basically right next to that park)

Looking straight up (or south or west would be like where you were in CA - 'doable but not great'.)
Seeing the stars up in the mountains is awesome, especially on the right perfectly-clear moonless night, when you can see the milky way .. its just like "wow" :) no chance of ever seeing that at home.

I've got one of those TV/FM antennas in the attic (perfect place for it). Used to be allot better before TV went digital, now its not all that great (I think I had it connected to my stereo at one time, but when I changed receivers I didn't connect it to the "new" one since it doesn't have a coax antenna jack).

Quote
Same there, you'd always notice it outside.  Here I hear the occasional outboard motor, 4-wheeler, or chainsaw.  (On nice days is when it's the noisiest, everyone driving around doing chores and cutting firewood) But somebody here got a mini excavator so we now have the "backup sound" in town now LOL.
That couple...out of annoying nosieness or "That's really cool!"
Worst part would be firing that thing up every morning leaving for work LOL...that might make the neighbors complain; that could be an issue for someone like me who would totally keep it as an only vehicle, driving it every day LOL.
I know several mono FMs here in Alaska. Some are translators but at least one is a parent station.  Case in point, KCAW 104.7 Sitka, AK.   They're NPR but do a lot of music too but have a unique sound being in mono but also their range is impressive, you can hear that radio station quite a way out of town before it fades away completely.
Could a mono FM have a stereo HD setup? And can low-power translators have HD?
Yep nice days/nights (or just after it's rained) is when the traffic noise is most noticeable .lol. Then yeah you get the various tools and other 'work' noises...
I seriously doubt firing that big old truck up would be as annoying as some of those **** motorcycles.
If you had one the gas station would love you :D

To me mono destroys music, making it un-listenable .lol.
I think I remember reading somewhere that a HD tuner 'reads' something off the stereo signal to detect whether its there or not (I'm not sure on that though, since its been a while since I looked up how it worked, and it wouldn't make sense on the part that a station could broadcast in pure digital.
A LP-FM translator or station could theoretically do HD, but I have no idea on what the FCC regulations are for such. Even if allowed it probably wouldn't make sense to do since the HD signal would go very little distance.

I have this little portable HD tuner thing (kinda like a walkman, but radio only)... one of these days I'll have to take that thing when I'm going somewhere and see how far the HD signal goes out from the big stations here .lol.  be interesting to see if it could be picked up down in the city (farther from the transmitters than I am) or how far (if any) out past the city...


----------------
I've been watching some YouTube videos on DIY solar systems.
Kinda interesting on how its setup, I've learned a few things, but I have yet to find one on exactly what I'd like to do.
Did you also know they make Pure Sine-Wave Inverters?

There's allot of "spam" out there too :( people wanting to sell fake crap. f--- that.
I also hate all those long pauses in the middle of  YouTube videos where you start thinking: is it doing anything? just sitting there not even buffering?

 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 17, 2015, 10:07:14 PM
It wasn't as bad as you might think though.  I swear, Sitka, where I'm typing from right now, is worse for city lights...the dark sky people would hate it here! AND it's all HPS light pollution too, even worse!
But where I live it's totally dark at night...literally! So yeah it's good for stargazing.
There was a "TV" looking antenna at my mom's house in Atascadero but we tossed it when we redid the deck.  Had I known I would've kept it in service...the stereo tuner's reception suffered after we got rid of it, it only picked up a few REALLY strong, local stations after that LOL.
And here I can hear traffic noise INDOORS, but that's likely I'm so sensitive to it, not usually hearing it.
I personally happen to despise motorcycles, though at the same time I've thought one would be a good idea for riding to work every day or something!
Yeah but those Deuces are LOUD! I knew of one in person and with that "whister" turbo it was really loud.  It basically sounds like...the sound a CRT television makes on AM radio, or the first second or two of the song "Numb" by Linkin Park...a high-pitched whistling sound. Anyhow the one I knew of...I didn't know what the sound was at first and hearing it half a mile away was really something! (We could not figure out WHAT that sound was!)
And I have ridden in the cab of one, about 3 years ago, before I was interested in them.  It was LOUD! And there's something neat about driving any vehicle in a place without cars/roads LOL. 
Actually some of them (70s models anyhow) are MULTIFUEL! Seriously! I'm surprised more engines aren't that way.  I think that'd be perfect for me, run it on part used motor oil, which I have LOTS of access too, and that would almost make it cheaper than driving a normal car! So that's another "justification" I guess LOL. Besides, I think there's just that "cool" factor, kinda like having a whole house lit with mostly fluorescents!
Although the 5-ton version , which I THINK is strictly diesel (Still learning about these) would be equally as neat, though I think that would require a CDL to drive at all (air brakes, etc).
Which leads me to...Hey Mike, I went to the DMV and got the drivers manual.  Great reading material for when the other person you go in with has to do other business.  BTW did you know a mobile home qualifies as a "vehicle" and is thus titled at the DMV? I didn't!
Xmaslightguy, that's interesting...I know of a mono FM that is supposedly HD according to iBiquity's site (KCAW 104.7, Sitka, AK) but it's strictly mono on a totally analog radio. But I don't notice the hiss on 104.5 and 104.9, I just tried but I'm currently located on the outskirts of town, so possibly out of the range of the HD signal. 
And...did some interesting airplane DXing today.  3M earmuffs with built in radio sure come in handy on those single-engine floatplanes, they're LOUD!.When you're at a couple thousand feet FM reception is great, though I never thought to try AM.   
Upon takeoff, I switched back and forth quite a bit between the translator of Sitka's KCAW (K220CH 91.9) and KFSK Petersburg, AK's K216AA 91.1 translator, which comes in, albeit weakly, at my house.  In my room in particular (on the second floor, height helps) it switches in/out of stereo and is listenable for the most part, but elsewhere in the house it's not so great.  Anyhow 91.9's signal was decent, and of course amplifed somewhat at that height, without hills/mountains in the way. But 91.1's signal was excellent as well, and in stereo for the most part as well.  (I could hear the "Hiss" of it being in stereo but sorta weak).  We had to stop somewhere a couple miles from where we took off and both got weak at ground level with mountains in the way but upon takeoff again both were good again.  We doubled back over where we took off from originally (I could even see my house) going the other way.  91.9's signal did what I thought it would, it lasted for awhile, more so than normal at such an elevated height, as did 91.1's, very clearly too! Once going through a certain mountain pass in particular 91.9 was still great, but then it went away pretty quickly (at 100+ MPH too keep in mind).  91.1's lasted a GOOD while longer, but I kinda vaguely know their transmitter's location, I belive it's on a coast guard radio tower atop a mountain somewhere. Their signal gets out well for being 140w ERP as opposed to 91.9's lame 37w!  And geographically and power-wise it made perfect sense too that it would.  Finally, by the time I lost it, I could already pick up an albeit-really-scratchy KCAW 104.7 from Sitka (parent station of K220CH 91.9) whose 3600w ERP does really well anyway, and especially at that height!
One interesting thing is the sound of FM stereo clipping in and out really fast, it's a unique effect.




Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 18, 2015, 11:19:26 AM
Well DXing anything but the semi-local AM on 1230 was a bust from here last light.  Even Vancouver, BC's traffic station on 730 wasn't showing up.  (My definition of a bad night is when I can't even hear that). And yeah, am I the only one wondering, why a 50KW signal for that? Shouldn't that be a little low-power FM that hardly even gets out of the Vancouver metro area?
I might try again tonight, the night before last at home was also really poor so maybe it's the atmospheric conditions, etc. right now that just aren't favorable!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on April 18, 2015, 04:17:52 PM
Here its a combination of HPS and MH light pollution. dark sky people would be best to just avoid the area alltogether ;D

Some of those turbo's make crazy sounds. there was a time when I didn't know why some vehicles made  whisting sound.
They should do more of the multifuel thing, seems like it is very practical (one could probably even call it environmentally friendly since you are 'recycling' used oil).
A 5-ton beast would look so out of place in a neighborhood or driving down the highway. But LOL at the thought of that sitting infront of a house...especially in one of those fancy/yuppie neighborhoods!

I google'd KCAW  .lol. saw one article that said they broadcast mono when doing news, but stereo for music.
I looked around again today on HD-radio since its been awhile, and found it is indeed incompatible with AM-stereo (a a staton can do one or the other but not both due to bandwith), but couldn't find anything as to whether or not it needs a FM-stereo signal (my guess now is that it doesn't. one wikipedia page even said  "IBOC does allow for multiple program channels, though this can entail taking some existing subcarriers off the air to make additional bandwidth available in the modulation baseband.  On FM, this could eventually mean removing stereo. "  )
Very interesting on trying radio on an airplane. I woulda never thought of that! I wonder what it'd be like up high in a large plane like a 747?

A number of the stations I listen to here are 100kw. The lowest is only 57kw (which may explain why its HD signal doesn't always work too well)


-------
I picked up a couple 2x 6-foot slimline fixtures today at an estate-sale! $4 for the 2 fixtures (new-old stock too) seemed too good of a deal to pass up even though I don't need them .lol. Those things are well built and weigh even more than a standard 8-footer.

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 18, 2015, 05:43:39 PM
Oh wow sounds like you have a pretty awesome yard! Yeah indoor pool would be cool. bi-level? What do they call split-level houses where you are then? bi-level and split level sound similar lol.

BTW guys, I'm in Florida now. ;D The resort is awesome! Very hot here though (around 90 degrees). The bathrooms kitchens have recessed F40T12 strip lights with opal diffusers under them (luminous ceiling but only over the sinks lol). One has F34T12 cool white Sylvanias but the rest have Philips 40W CWS lamps that I checked. The rest are just boring CFLs except for the two porch lights, which are preheat PL lamps with opal globe diffusers.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on April 18, 2015, 09:26:51 PM
@Mike:
I meant that to mean "I'd like to have (or my dream yard would be)..."
the current yard is an average yard in an average neighborhood. lol

"Bi-level" here.. is the one where you go in the front door, and have stairs where you can go up or down (I've also heard it called a raised ranch or split level, but both of those names are rare)

There is also "tri-level".. which is one where you go in the front door & have the livingroom & kitchen at that level, then there's a familyroom at a lower level, and bedrooms above the familyroom.

Then ofcourse 2-story, & 3-story are just as the name would imply.


---
whenever you go somewhere you gotta check out the lights they have there :)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 18, 2015, 09:54:09 PM
I personally like seeing LED and induction coming into favor around here, I'd rather the "orange" light go away in favor of "white"
In a "fancy/yuppie neighborhood" YEAH! Or parked in a small driveway in a hilly neighborhood.  And LOL at the thought of certain commute situations every day...merging onto the freeway, or living on a dirt road.  Or giving directions to your house: You can't miss it, there's a 5-ton army truck in the driveway.  Or meeting with someone someplace: "So what are you driving?" "A 5-ton army truck".  Or even the classic "So what do you drive?"
Mono when doing news, stereo with music? That's interesting but maybe it explain's today's experience...(It's a long story)
I was at someone's house today and I commented on their 80s stereo in the cabinet with the glass front, with multiple stacked components, and vintage Bose speakers that are pieces of furniture all their own.  He said it was a garage-sale find about a decade ago.  And it was tuned to KCAW, and the "Stereo" indicator was lit.  And I was like WTF?!
We were talking about AM radio too.  We're in the same basic geographical region and it turns out he also is a DXer at heart, although not super serious.  Just like me! We all know the same distant stations and have lived in rural places with few or no local stations.  He knows of 810 KGO San Francisco, a couple CBC stations, (I've heard at least one of them), as well as (And this made my heart sing) the weird 1600 out of Blaine, Washington that does the Pakistani/middle east music.  I've never heard their station IDs but he has and they're in English.  And we were like yeah that BOOMS in most nights.  Same with many other stations we know and the various reception conditions.  We also talked antennas too and we know what does and doesn't work.  He mainly does his listening at night in bed with earphones, just like me.  AND we both do this regularly, we were like "Yeah last night was a total bust".
And then we got to talking about FM stereo, and the stereo light showing up on KCAW! We tried turning it up and standing inline with the speakers but couldn't tell if it was stereo or mono actually. And I related the airplane DXing story and he's done if from a 747...and says it works really well!  But I need to pay more attention to them while in range of their parent station  and it's huge signal.  
I just tried and at 6:29 PM local time they're running Prarie Home Companion and it sounds as if it's in mono.  But that could fall into the category of spoken-word programming.  But I swear I saw that ST light today, though there was not a way to "disable" stereo on his tuner so I couldn't tell for sure.  (I looked)
I just googled "KCAW Broadcasting Stereo" and found a rather interesting article about HD radio in Alaska.  It mentions that some stations have never transmitted stereo due to multipath issues, but newer equipment is better about this.  So apparently HD works really well here in cities of hills and trees.
http://www.tvtechnology.com/prntarticle.aspx?articleid=15777  
And notice how high it is at 104.7 Mhz? In Alaska all stations used to be above 100Mhz back in the day, the lower end of the FM band was used for other services.  
Neato! What do they have for ballasts? I saw the Sylvania 6ft lamp you posted on LG.
Have fun Mike!
And yeah you'd like my yard too I bet.

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 18, 2015, 10:05:22 PM
Yeah the houses where you have two sets of stairs by the front door is a raised ranch, like my house. A split level is when part of the house is a few steps taller than the other half like my great-aunt's house. My grandma/aunt's house is a colonial (two full floors with front door on the first floor and only the bedrooms and a bathroom are upstairs while living room, kitchen, dining room, etc are on the first floor).

Yeah I'll post pics of the lights here sometime. Not quite that interesting TBH...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 18, 2015, 10:13:28 PM
Yeah there are DUPLEX raised ranches around here!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 18, 2015, 10:15:18 PM
And Xmaslightguy, any chance you could link to the article about KCAW doing stereo while playing music? I'd be interested to see that, I can't find it.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 18, 2015, 11:05:49 PM
Giving it another try, but it's inconclusive again, while playing John Lennon's "Watching the wheels go 'round".  If it is stereo it sure doesn't sound like your typical slightly hissy FM stereo.  Is that article you found a newspaper clipping from 1992? If so things could have changed to all mono but that still doesn't explain the Stereo pilot light I saw either! I might try listening during some newscast/music transitions...or emailing the station engineer. WEIRD!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on April 18, 2015, 11:38:00 PM
Yep I that's one of the lamps from today's find on LG
I posted a pic of one of the fixtures here on GOL, and a different angle-shot on ATL
The fixtures have those green & yellow label Universals (may post a pic tomorrow)

104.7 Mhz doesn't seem high to me, there's stations up to 107.5 here!

Yep it was a newspaper article, but don't know the date, that website didn't display quite right anyway.

I like induction lights because some of them look like fluorescents (no idea how the quality is though, I've never heard anything either way)
And I do like the white light of LED streetlights, I'd really question the quality (only time will tell)
Personally I think they should go MH, its probably more efficient than LEDs anyway.
Most of the FM stereo stations here come in crystal clear/no static

I found a list of all them by frequency, and noticed there is a 103.1, and a 103.5 ... pretty close spacing for those 2, I think I'm gonna check if either does HD (which I know atleast at one time 103.5 did) ... then try & see if there is any noticeable interference between them on the analog FM (and check 103.2,103.3,103.4 too LOL)

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 19, 2015, 12:24:38 AM
Nice, those Universal ballast are excellent! I assume they list F96 lamps as well?
104.7 is high for a noncommerical station though!
Yeah sounds like we found the same article. 
I also forgot to mention I did a junk store trip today.  I passed up a 175w Sylvania BBT28 MH, a 100w GTE Sylvania MH, a Sylvania 100w HPS (all new in boxes/sleeves) and a few other lighting things.  I should've grabbed the 175 (at $5 that's a score!) but did not since I was not going home right away and it might get trashed in my suitcase LOL.
Interesting, let me know how that goes!
Was this list on Radio-Locator by any chance? That's a GREAT tool!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on April 19, 2015, 01:09:32 AM
Yep they do list F96 as well :)

Yep that's a deal on the 175w lamp.. but not really worth the risk of it getting broken anyway.

I did that little test 103.5 does have a HD-1 and HD-2. 103.1 is actually a mono FM :o but it is just a talk station.
103.5 comes in totally crystal-clear/perfect on its frequency (just the analog broadcast too) , and static-y on 103.4 & a bit worse on 103.3...
103.1 comes in fine on its frequency and static-y (not too listenable on 103.2)
Interesting test there. 103.3 deff could not be used by another station.

I found the list on Wikipedia.  I always forget about Radio-Locator.
---
After doing that I returned to my bedroom & decided to go through the FM band (I guess what you call DX'ing, except I'm using a digital tuner)...
There's all the "local" stations, but when I got to 92.9 I found something that's not on the list, so I let it run ...turns out I'm picking up a station all the way from Cheyenne Wyoming, and its actually coming in fairly clear :o (pretty good considering its only 35kw) My tuner shows its stereo, but it doesn't sound like "normal" stereo, kinda dull sounding, but no real static.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 19, 2015, 12:17:50 PM
Oh yeah that "muddy" sounding audio weaker stations sometimes have. 
Yeah that doesn't surprise me.  Ideally there should always be one empty channel between stations, for example a  station on 103.1, a blank space on 103.3, then something on 103.5 and even that's close.  Especially with analog tuning that's not very selective...some older radios are much better in this regard.
Yeah I looked up that AM station out of Blaine, WA that does the (It turns out Indian) music and they only have a 10KW ERP at night, but 50 during the day.  Either way some nights it BOOMs  in and covers a couple channels.  (Did I ever mention the radio I use somehow set itself to the 9Khz spacing awhile ago? So often all the north american stations (I've never heard anything overseas, or with a W--- prefix) cover a couple channels...if they're clear.
And last night also sucked AM-wise.  I tried and got nothing, then tried again and only got a couple, and very faint. I think one was around 750, may have been Anchorage.
I know if I ever hear of a big AM doing a "DX test" (permission to use daytime power/antenna patterns at night for  enthusiasts, etc, usually doing stuff like voice and morse code IDs and easily recognizable music) I'm looking up my fellow enthusiast's number in the phone book...I should've asked for that actually.
Ever heard of getting a QSL card (or QSL'ing") a station? It's basically hearing a station from a great distance, then sending the statio engineer a reception report (It's often good to tape/record it, but if not then describe their programming/music playlist/IDs/commercials as specifically as possible) and then in return you get mailed a little card with a confirmation of your reception report, and sometimes other little memorobilia from the station).  I've never personally gotten one but if I ever hear of a DX test or hear something really unusual I will try.  I don't have a good inline way to record anything though other than next to a radio speaker, though I have recorded a few really local stations in both Alaska and California that way (station IDs, etc)
BTW did you ever get a chance to check out that YT vid for the AM/FM local bandscans around here? The Sitka chunk is really representative of what it sounds like here. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on April 19, 2015, 02:00:39 PM
Yep that sound :) I tried that Wyoming station again today just for kicks...and nothing but static .lol.
might be fun some other night to try the rest of the FM band just to see if any others happen to come in (ofcourse we all know all that stuff varies from night to night)
Would probably be interesting to connect the big antenna in the attic to my tuner  (too much effort though)

Yeah some of those analog tuners aren't all that great if you've got a couple closely spaced stations.

Never heard of a QSL card. Very interesting. If I wanted I could very easily record anything directly into the computer since its connected to the stereo :) One of these days I may do a video showing HD radio/how it sounds.

Also last night when I was just browsing the FM there was this one Mexican station (not something I'd ever listen to), the difference between its analog FM and digital/HD FM was quite noticeable...when I first tuned it, I heard that music and thought 'ugg Mexican' but then the tuner detected HD & switched over to digital, it was like 'wow' (as far as quality difference, still didn't like the music LOL). The various rock/pop/alt stations I normally would listen to, its not that noticeable because they have such a good analog.

I haven't watched that vid yet (just need to remember when my other PC is on (my main one purposely doesn't have flash installed))
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 19, 2015, 02:44:12 PM
Yeah I don't think FM is really affected by time of day unless maybe there's just less interference at night.
It would totally be worth hooking your big antenna up again, you'll hear a LOT more stations.  Does it have digital tuning or analog? If digital does it do RDS?
Interesting, I also notice some stations have much better audio processing than others.
The kind of 'static' I hate the most is the type where it's FM (usually in stereo but barely) and when "quiet" it's mostly clear but with any "noise" (voice, music, etc) there's static along with that.
I'd be interested to hear a HD comparison if you ever post one.  FYI my YT username is andycflbulb...I've commented on your vids before.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on April 19, 2015, 04:49:36 PM
FM has always come in better at night for me, especially these days. (but I also know the fluorescent lights in my bedroom play a role, especially in 'killing' HD signals & those lights are always off at night)

Its digital tuning... kinda interesting when you tune in a station you'll get it right away just like any tuner, then the stereo indicator will light, then ROS, and then HD if it exists(and once HD is on,  then you can pick the HD2 or HD3 sub-channels (if the station has them))

There may come a time when I try that antenna again, but its a real pain getting to the backs of the stereo stuff. At this point  that antenna is just connected for the TV (one of these times I need to go up in the attic & try adjusting it to see if I can get ant better reception, but that too is a real pain LOL)

I know what you mean about that particular type of static.

I may eventually just have to do that vid, but at this point I have a couple other unfinished ones that I want to get done.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 19, 2015, 05:34:42 PM
Interesting! I'm leaving Sitka later today but in the future intend to pay more attention to if KCAW actually DOES run stereo while playing music. I swear the stereo pilot light was on, and Drake's "Hold on, we're going home" did sound like it just might be in stereo, though I couldn't tell for sure.  Or do some tuners take a mono signal and make stereo out of it somehow?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on April 19, 2015, 06:37:18 PM
A normal tuner or receiver can't take a mono signal and make stereo out of it...
but I know there are some units out there that had what amounts to a small reverb processor built in,
to make simulated stereo. (also a feature on some surround receivers to make simulated surround).
May go by names like 'matrix' or 'hall' or even just 'stereo enhance' But there'd be a button(s) for that option.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 20, 2015, 02:23:41 AM
Interesting! I'm now in Juneau and checking out the radio stations of course, there's a couple I swear are mono that play music but I swear are mono, or at least lack "stereo reverb/hiss" (If you use headset radios you get to know the sound of FM stereo).  This makes me think KCAW Sitka does NOT do stereo! I'm getting to know the "FM stereo sound" quite well.
And ther'es an empty signal on 107.3 here that has stereo hiss but nothing! And it doesn't show up in Radio-Locator.  And another is silent but has a carrier, but I think in mono.
And here's what Radio-Locator has to say about Juneau:
http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/locate?select=city&city=Juneau&state=AK&band=Both&is_lic=Y&is_cp=Y&is_unl=Y&is_fl=Y&is_fx=Y&is_fb=Y&format=&dx=2&radius=&freq=&sort=freq&sid=

88.9 is silent but with a carrier in mono. 89.7 comes in here but weak, in and out of stereo.  90.7 is mono.  94.1 is stereo. 96.7 is mono. 100.7 is really good sounding stereo and audio processing.  101.7 is clearly mono.  Can't decide on 102.7.  103.1 is mono. So is 104.3. I think 105.1 and 106.3 are too, I wonder if they do HD radio but cannot do stereo for some weird reason, or don't? And the empty carrier on 107.3 is stereo and I can't get 107.9'
(all from my hotel room near the airport)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on April 20, 2015, 11:50:45 AM
Interesting.
I wonder if you had a tuner or receiver & attached a good antenna how they'd come in? (LOL could you imagine trying to lug around a piece of stereo equipment...and ofcourse hope the airport doesn't demolish it in the baggage system LOL)

I checked out your link :) That town is missing some stuff: Rock, Classic Rock, and Top 40 .. LOL
I picked one of those stations off the list, the one you said has good sound (KXLL/100.7) that one does do HD
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KXLL .. if you scroll down to the bottom there's links by frequency for some of the other stations you mentioned (I looked through some, and there are a couple that do HD). Looks like everything there is pretty low power, the biggest I saw was only 10kw...

---
I went through the rest of the FM band here last night. there's allot of stations, especially when a few from Wyoming were somewhat coming in too.
I did notice some stations where the stereo indicator lit, but they didn't really sound like it (but not totally mono either). I came across one frequency (don't remember what it was) that was silent/not even static.
I think I might know what the HD-signal-addon sounds like...there were some empty frequency's with just static (close to stations with HD,) in the background of the static there was this little buzz-ish sound.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 20, 2015, 10:33:12 PM
BTW, I'm in Florida this week and went to visit my grandparents this week since they own a mobile home down near Tampa and have been down here since February. (the grandparents who have the apartment, troffers in the basement, and the autobody shop). The home is from 1979 and has three fluorescents inside. A single-lamp F20T12/TS strip light, a single-lamp F40T12/RS strip, and a single-lamp F72T12/SL strip. All are recessed above sinks in the bathrooms and kitchen and have a "cracked ice" pattern diffuser under them. The F20 has the original Sylvania + etch cool white, the F40 has the original blackender (assuming it's Westinghouse) and the 6ft has a May 2000 Philips alto CW. The shed also has a beauty: a 1950s PREHEAT SHOPLIGHT! It's got two GE cool whites, one probably from 1979-ish (inside etch). Very cool looking. I took pics and will post sometime this week. There were also four F40 lamps out there too. An F40T12/CW Norelco, a GE RESIDENTIAL LIGHT (with the E symbol) and two 1950s Sylvania F40 BLUE lamps, which were probably the originals to the preheater. The Sylvanias are in GE sleeves, probably for the inside-etched mainlighters that are in the fixture now. The Sylvanias have light visible use. The GE res. light is new, and the Norelco appears new but very dirty. My grandpa said i can have all four and he said *someday* I can have the F40 preheater too. The paint on the preheater's reflector is chipping BADLY. The thing must cook in the summer, but it's never used in the summer months so the ballast should be fine. My grandparents bought the place in 2003-ish i think. Before that the owners only lived there in the winter and before that the place was vacant for a few years. And before that the original owners lived there (IDK if it was year-round or not but bottom line is that the fixture doesn't see heavy use which is nice. Could totally use a repaint though. I tried getting the lamps out but didn't want to pull the fixture off the ceiling since it's hung from the chains and who knows how secure it is after 35 years. It was definitely installed used since it's got an old cloth-wrapped ungrounded cord.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 21, 2015, 09:00:13 AM
Nice, it turns out my dad's girlfriend's place is from '66 and it's a mobile! No fluorescents except a cheapie Lithonia 2XF40 LPF shoplight and the factory LPF ballast and GE-made Ace SP41s.
Nice on the blues!  Grab em! And the Norelco.  What endcaps does it have? And are the GEs Mainlighters?
As for scary old wiring I was in this cool old bookstore in Juneau today and there were all sorts of lights/lamps but the scary one was a 4' rapid start strip whose channel cover was missing and the wire insulation on the ballast leads was all cracked.  But working! Label was gone but I bet it was a GE, I've read they're infamous for that. It was running a GE Kitchen & Bath and an Alto...
On the Juneau UAS (University of Alaska Southeast) campus there was this computer lab in a building from 2002 that was T12 with all 34w warm white Ecologic SuperSavers (Eww!) and one pair of CW 34w Altos.  If you don't like 34w lamps and don't like warm white, (Read: me) it's double whammy!
Downtown, at the (probably 1960s!) tech building (woodshop, construction, diesel mechanics, welding, auto shop, etc) there were these Acme 2-lamp wraps like the Lithonia "Classmate" that were T12 and humming away happily, all running 34w lamps it appeared (Nasty greenish halophosphate cool white light).  The woodshop had these cool 8ft slimline vaportights, and one of the diesel truck shops had these old MV/MH lights that took FOREVER to warmup, at least compared to my 175w yardblaster and 400w highbay-cum-world's-brightest-uplighter.
Sadly much of that is getting rennovated this summer so I think it's goobye to a lot of T12s and dated 60s/70s architecture, which I personally find cool.
I also proved I'm not the world's most ideal rock haul truck driver in a mining equipment simulator! Scraping the sides of the tunnel the whole way, someone joked I was "using it as Braille to feel my way"  Then we went and looked at one out in the parking lot with most of it's paint gone and joked "Yeah Andy's been driving that thing, I can tell!"
Speaking of driving: Did I mention driving on the freeway in Alaska past chain businesses is just kinda weird for me! I feel like I'm in the "lower 48"! Juneau actually has what I'd classify as freeway, but Anchorage, where I am now, is true freeway!
And I was in this Safeway grocery store in Juneau being remodeled.  There were this one remaining row of 3 F96/HO strips suspended (Albeit with Altos and probably 277v ballasts) and a bunch of disassembled cold cases with /835 Alto F40s and some Sylvanias.  Broken lamps in the piles too! Had I lived in the area I would've asked the management about them.  Another reason for owning a Deuce: Transporting 8ft strips/lamps in a hurry? No problem! I might add I've told a few people my "Good Gas mileage idea" like this: (Cue voice) So yeah, I'm gonna start driving soon.  I dunno what I'll end up with for a vehicle.  But my ultimate idea is...lemme prefeace this by saying it's ridiculous...a Deuce and a half." (End my voice).  The comment I usually get is "Good luck on the gas mileage!" Then I explain how they're multifuel and can run on waste motor oil which I have LOTS of access to in my situation.  So that's how I've been making people laugh, as well as myself.
Also the store was lit temporarily with those MH worklights with old troffer lenses suspended underneath them! It was hilarious!
Xmaslightguy, I busted out laughing at "If the airport baggage service doesn't demolish it" while in the airport, too!
Yeah it is missing the whole "rock" format, sans the Mike Harvey show on 800 KINY
Yeah KXLL 100.7 does RDS, stereo, and HD then. (I heard the stereo tone/quality on my headset 3M unit and saw the ST on the rental car radio, as well as the XceLLent monikeir through the RDS. Good station, surprised to see that instead of a classic rock or hard rock outlet though.
Mix 106.3 is your top 40 outlet there.  
And Anchorage...where do I even start? Let's pull up Radio-Locator for a start.   http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/locate?select=city&city=Anchorage&state=AK&band=Both&is_lic=Y&is_cp=Y&is_unl=Y&is_fl=Y&is_fx=Y&is_fb=Y&format=&dx=2&radius=&freq=&sort=freq&sid=
 Going through in the "Auto seek" mode/what it will stop on: (Compare this with Radio-Locator): 88.5, (stereo) 89.3,(mono), 90.3 (stereo), 92.1 (stereo), 92.9 (stereo but weak, going in and out of stereo),93.7 (sounds like mono), 94.7 (stereo), 95.1 (stereo) 96.3 (stereo), 96.7 (mono), 97.3 (stereo), 98.1 (mono), 98.9 (stereo), 100.5 (stereo), 101.3, (stereo)
102.1 (mono),
...and that's as far as I got before batteries died.  Anyhow one thing I do indeed notice right off the bat is that all these stations process their audio a lot better/louder than any Southeast station I've heard.  Kinda weird hearing a really full FM dial in Alaska!

  
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 21, 2015, 09:16:54 PM
Yep my grandpa is bringing them home Wednesday when they leave Florida and come back to Rhode Island. It's getting too hot down here for them. We're here til Friday morning. We'll be back in RI late Saturday night, probably. The Norelco lamp has Sylvania endcaps with GE raccoon eye insulators. The GEs are not mainlighters. They just say GENERAL (GE) ELECTRIC, F40CW, COOL WHITE, PREHEAT-RAPID START, U.S.A. on the etch. The other looks like a later replacement (still got the GENERAL (GE) ELECTRIC etch but outside etch versus inside).

Eventually the preheater will be mine too but not this soon. No plans to get the RS lights inside the mobile home though. They're probably just LPF ballasts and it's not worth coming all the way down to Florida to get them. I'll probably have to come back myself to get the preheater though...

BTW, my grandpa has agreed to sell me a car too! It's a light blue 1990 Buick Regal with a dark blue felt top (sorta like a convertible I guess...) It's for only around 25000 miles on it and he's put a bunch of new stuff into it. All it needs is four new tires. A great deal too.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 22, 2015, 12:43:53 AM
Awesome! I saw some of your pics and commented.  Is the newer lamp like this one? (http://www.lighting-gallery.net/gallery/displayimage.php?album=search&cat=0&pos=2&pid=964550? Or this? http://www.lighting-gallery.net/gallery/displayimage.php?album=search&cat=0&pos=4&pid=80066
Maybe try to get the F72T12 light though if you can, that's kinda rare.
Neato! 25000 miles isn't bad at all! How's the paint job, etc?
And of course I have to ask: Does the radio work?
I toured two more college campuses today here in Anchorage, as well as NIT (Northern Industrial Training).  Basically not quite a votech, but has heavy equipment operator programs, welding programs, etc.  Basically I see it as a walk-in-off-the-streets-of-Anchorage-in-a-couple-years-and-get-my-CDL-so-I-can-own/drive-a-5-ton-ex-army-truck kind of opportunity, though I intend to do my GERs someplace else here in Anchorage, Fairbanks, or Juneau, and maybe some votech stuff at the AVTEC school in Seward I took my "intro to nautical skills" class through. One of the universities here in Anchorage (Alaska Pacific University) does an early-honors program for high school seniors I might apply for though (So far I'm liking what I see in Anchorage).

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 22, 2015, 09:44:29 AM
Your first link is bad. The etch was different from the standard etch you linked in the second link. I think it's an 80s or early 90s.

Oh yeah I'd love the F72T12 single lamp slimline but it's all the way down in Florida. Not really worth it. The preheater is just suspended in the shed and plugged in so that's an easy grab (and more desirable to me anyway).

Yeah the car is in great shape too! No body rot, nothing wrong with it! My grandpa had fixed everything that was wrong with it, other than the ceiling upholstery falling down (some safety pins easily solve that issue). The AC and radio work I think. I haven't seen the car yet; it's back in Rhode Island. He's had it for like two years so I've actually probably seen it and not realized it. It was at his shop for a while but he brought it back to his house before he came down to Florida with my grandma.

Ah good luck with that! Sounds like they offer quite a bit of useful programs.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on April 22, 2015, 07:52:15 PM
@Mike:
Nice finds, especially on those 1950s Sylvania F40/Blue lamps! Cool that he's gonna let you have them.


@GEsoftwhite100watts:
I could just picture that big old army truck full of old fluorescent fixtures

LOL perfect place to read that comment about the baggage service

I wonder if their 'Mix 106.3' is owned by the same big corporation as the 'Mix 100.3' here?
It does look like Anchorage has a good variety & number of stations. :)

Interesting to play around with the different search options on that site too 8)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 22, 2015, 10:40:43 PM
Yeah definitely a good score. i practically begged him for the lamps and offered to buy him four new lamps for them. Originally he said I could have one blue one but then right before we left he said that he would take all four back to Rhode Island with him as long as they fit in the truck. He said he;s not bringing the preheater fixture though, but agreed that he'd take it down and let my have it if/when they sell the mobile home.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 23, 2015, 01:56:28 AM
Nice! Right now I'm in Fairbanks.  http://www.radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/locate?select=city&city=Fairbanks&state=AK&band=Both&is_lic=Y&is_cp=Y&is_unl=Y&is_fl=Y&is_fx=Y&is_fb=Y&format=&dx=2&radius=&freq=&sort=freq&sid=. I'll do more thorough reception analysis tomorrow night, I'm too tired.
I listened to the radio as much as I could driving down the Seward Highway to Seward from Anchorage today too.  There's a good 40 miles of totally blank FM dial and no cell phone service (at least AT&T) either.  All the Achorage FMs get patchy before you're even totally out of town (still on 4-lane freeway at 65MPH) but stay listenable for another 20-some miles, then all fade rapidly save for one NPR in Girdwood and something else at the low end of the dial (Probably another KLove repeater, those ALWAYS come in strong).  Then nothing for 40 or so miles, save for one or two stations very briefly in a couple spots.  Finally about 20 miles out you get the Seward FMs, only 5 there (town of 3000 people) as opposed to Anchorage.  Two were the same oldies station, and 104.9 was this weird alt-rock station, playing everything from Lorde's "Red yellow flicker" to Breaking Benjamin's "So cold".  And this one was in mono and this time it actually did suck, or maybe I'm spoiled by the clean, professional sound, "bumpers", and audio processing and stereo signal of the Anchorage and Fairbanks stations in almost every imaginable format. 
Hehe, yeah! Wished I had one a couple days ago, I was at this Safeway supermarket that was being remodeled and I saw three soon-to-be-gone 8ft HO strips I'd have asked about if I lived in the area, and may have even tried to stuff in a regular-size car.  But I even thought "Yeah that'd be so nice right now" as soon as I saw them. 
(" I could just picture that big old army truck full of old fluorescent fixtures".) (Conjures up image of driving in rush hour traffic with a bunch of 8 footers in the back, without need for the red tagging at the back). Yeah especiallyAnother nice thing about those: No locks, much less those stupid key fob things, which although they make me laugh every time I've used one/seen one used, are useless when you lock yourself out of the rental car, fob lying on the seat! (This actually happened today). 
There's a "Mix (frequency) in almost every city.  Same for "Jack FM" and "Bob FM" (Which sounds like someone's iPod on shuffle).  And then there's TedFM I guess too...same idea.
When I was driving to Seward my dad gave me directions to the world's best junk store, or so he thought.  He actually narrowly missed a Sansui 2000A tuner/amplifer there once.  Turns out the place burned down though...really ironic considering that always happens to thrift stoes it seems, and especially since I'd left a message on his answering machine, "Wheres the junk store again?" before that.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 23, 2015, 07:15:40 PM
Leaving first-thing tomorrow morning so you guys probably won't hear from me til Sunday after tonight.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on April 23, 2015, 08:11:40 PM
@GEsoftwhite100watts:
Fairbanks has a fair amount less stations than Anchorage...
Must have been weird on that stretch of highway with no FM's! (no cell service doesn't surprise me though LOL)

I'm sure I'm spoiled by the clean FM's here (and HD which in some ways is a step above)

A bunch of 8 footers in the back is exactly what I picture too, along with a few T17 fixtures (which apparently big heavy beasts). A couple years ago I went to a garage-sale and they had some fluorescent fixtures for $.25 each, 2 2x 8-footers & 3 random 4-footers. for that price (got all 5 for a buck) I couldn't pass 'em up. The 2 8-footers just barely fit in my car. :)
Ofcourse having layed around in someone's garage for who knows how ling they were kinda dusty/dirty, and I was going camping with my brother later that day, so they all went straight to the backyard to be cleaned later....but then ended up spending basically the whole summer out there :P

Pretty much any store you go in here has been converted to T8 (and a few T5)...its pretty rare to see T12's in operation anymore. Have yet to see any gone to LED.

The 'Mix 100.3' here used to have an all 80's channel as their HD-2 . sucks that that station discontinued HD broadcasting (just Stereo FM with RDS now, but its got a good clean sound).
There used to be 2 Jack FM's here (both exactly the same, If you could get tuned in on 2 different receivers there was just a very slight delay between them). Never heard of Bob FM

Yep those KeyFob  things would be about as good as an actual key if left lying on the seat...

LOL @ referring to a thrift store as "junk store". I sometimes call going to a thrift store "ghetto shopping"
Too bad that place burned down though.


@Mike:
Enjoy your trip!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 23, 2015, 11:19:07 PM
I swear Fairbanks' stations sound better/consistently play better songs though, at least to my taste! Their audio and "bumpers" sounds like any major city...everything about Fairbanks is a scaled-down version of Anchorage, but still pretty metropolitan.
Driving out to Chena Hot Springs the stations all lasted awhile but then got patchy for quite awhile, then all faded right before getting there. 
I figured out how to do RDS on that rental car radio...FYI if a station gets weak the RDS info disappears too.  It doesn't appear to be related to the "ST" light being on or off though, that would flash on and off seperately. 
I've been a lot of places with no FMs at all, it is kinda funny and weird though!
I still have yet to experience HD though.
LOL at the T17s "image"...and how about driving around, with a vintage tuner/amplifer sitting in the passenger seat? That's what I picture.  I also picture driving on the freeway with slimline lamps and not having to worry about them hitting the pavement at 60+MPH.
I've left fixture reflectors and cover channels outside before, but only for a few days.
Bob/Ted FM is this random mix of everything from pretty much everything...actual example:
LOL yeah.  Thankfully there was at least cell phone service there!
I've always called them junk stores.  But LOL at "Ghetto shopping". 

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 24, 2015, 01:43:18 AM
Sample TedFM playlist I heard tonight (Similar to BobFM)
Dire Straits-So Far Away
Rolling Stones-Brown Sugar
(some other song I don't recongnize but it's 70s soul stuff)
Scorpions-Rock you like a Hurricane
Sweet-Ballroom Blitz
America-Meet me in the middle
Billy Idol-Dancing with Myself
Foreigner-Cold As Ice
Warrant-Cherry Pie

Yeah you get the idea LOL...no modern AC in this slot though...though it does happen!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 24, 2015, 06:18:48 PM
Yawn...a LONG day already! Flew home from Fairbanks not only in one day, but in only six hours total! Granted, it meant getting up at 3:30AM but it meant I arrived home by 1PM!
I really like that area...I'm admittedly a Suburbanite so the perfect middle of the road for me is close to stores, etc (Fairbanks looks like you might as well be most places in the "Lower 48") but also out in the sticks...I could live with driving an hour each way into the nice interior countryside.  Weather was in the 40s-50s the whole time I was there but it was a different cold, it was dry.  And the sun was intense as well. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on April 24, 2015, 08:17:41 PM
Allot does depend on what they are playing, some stations deff have better playlists than others :)
I like multiple different styles of music, and jump around from one to the other.
classic rock/alt-rock/metal/pop/country/techno/dance, and others... not really a rap fan (not that I hate it, its just not my thing)... can't stand elevator music(classical) or real slow mellow stuff. Also won't listen to anything really old or in mono. .lol.
Sometimes I'll load up the CD player with multiple totally different CD's. Haven't been listening to my CD's as much since my player quit (guess I wore out another one ??? ) I have another but it doesn't work all that well in general, and really doesn't like CD-R's (have to try & repair one of the 'dead' ones eventually or just go to the local thrift-store & dig up something cheap & decent looking...)

It actually takes very little to 'kill' the RDS signal (and HD signal is even more 'fragile')

vintage tuner/amplifer sitting in the passenger seat ... seat-belted in ofcourse just for laughs!

'Ghetto shopping' came from what dumps some of those stores are...that and some of the people you see in them, especially those deeper into the city.

Looks like that TedFM played some decent stuff.

That does sound like a looong day!
I personally wouldn't even call 40s-50s 'cold' . Here it is very "dry", very common to have humidity values less than 20%, and sometimes even in the single digits.

I'm very much a suburb-ish guy... I could never live in a small town, or out in the middle of nowhere. I'm spoiled & need to be near stores & stuff...that said I wouldn't want to live in the city, especially right downtown.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 24, 2015, 09:49:52 PM
Yeah now I'm back in the land of one local NPR translator, one other weak one, and of course weak AM at night.  So the playlist now is Pandora LOL.
Yeah I "jump around" a lot myself. If you look at Radio-Locator Fairbanks is organized by format too, so going up the dial you get Christian repeaters nobody listens to, country, classic rock, (hard) rock, mainstream AC, etc.  (Two or three stations of each).  It's a really good sounding radio market.  Granted, so is Anchorage. 
Another thing that's kinda funny and weird is having a full FM dial like that...then driving out of town and it's all gone pretty much at once, or having a full dial but the stations are ALL weak and staticky.
Vintage tuner/amplifer sitting in the passenger seat...seatbelted in just for laughs...good idea! I pictured it sitting on top of some of that no-skid rubbery stuff originally, along with other "junk". While driving down to Seward from Anchorage, listening to lots of really good radio stations and seeing how far they'd last out of town, I was mulling over the directions my dad had given me over the phone to the really good junk store (Did I mention he'd bought a TON of stuff there?) and before knowing it had burnt down, I was thinking what it would take to bring a nice old tuner/amplifer back from there...and the radio station areas it would go through, even not hooked up.  It would've been 128 miles on the Seward Highway, out of the Seward radio market and into the FM nothingness for about 40 miles, then it would've been into the Anchorage clusters of stations, then into the Fairbanks radio market, then back into the Anchorage stations, then into Juneau's then Sitka's, then here.  Of course that didn't happen, since the store didn't actually exist anymore LOL.  It would've had to sit on my lamp for all those miles in the rental car, then gone through the TSA airport security, etc. 
Yeah it's totally different than where I live in Alaska! Everything is different, it feels like being in another state!
I could live with driving an hour or so into town every day though. 
And...another Lighting Gallery member (Icefoglights) lives in the Fairbanks area...might be interesting to compare notes on what we've seen there.  (Although we were already the two Alaskan members anyway).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on April 24, 2015, 10:18:34 PM
These days its slim pickings at the thrift/junk stores here, and anything decent they usually want too much for too... gone are the good-old days.

I couldn't do a 1-hour drive, just too far. (the nearest "store cluster" - most everything you'd need) is about 15 minutes away. If I want to go downtown into the city, thats 45-minutes to an hour (rarely go there, no real need, when I do I drive to a train station & take their light-rail "train". not driving in that clusterf**k LOL )

Have you ever met the other Alaska LG member - Icefoglights?

There's one Colorado GOL  member (and I believe 1 or 2 on LG) but I've never met any of them.

But thinking of such, I may be going to a meetup of members from some of the xmas-lights forums tomorrow :)
(have gone to a few of their meetups before)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 24, 2015, 10:52:46 PM
Yeah it depends.  Traffic in Anchorage and Fairbanks is surprisngly dense actually! But still not too bad, lots of 65MPH freeway around Fairbanks!
Not in person, though it's real possible if I move to Fairbanks, that's where he is located.  Now both of us AK lighting gurus know a lot of the same places/stuff.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 25, 2015, 05:53:31 PM
Yay! I'm finally back home! lol. Two LONG days of driving 80MPH really drains you lol (in all honesty, sitting in a car for 16 hours in one day is probably the most tiring thing I've experienced).

I had a blast in Florida but glad to be back home in RI. Out of Florida, South Carolina, North Carolina, Virginia, Maryland, Delaware, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Connecticut, and RI, I think New Jersey had the most vintage street lights by far. NJ is AWESOME as far as street lights goes (and that's about the only thing NJ is awesome at lol. The drivers are insane!). Pennsylvania is a pretty close second. And then RI is a distant third. Florida is essentially merc-less, same for Virginia and Connecticut. The Carolinas have a lot of MV NEMAs and yardblasters on people's properties but most of the lights there are HPS too. Delaware and Maryland have a lot of induction and FCO HPS.

Yeah when I first started going to the ReStore a couple years ago their shelves were overflowing with cool lighting "junk" but now it seems someone is always beating me to the punch. I'll find loose endcaps and channel covers that weren't there last time but virtually never find any interesting lighting at all. Not even electronic stuff or lamps.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 25, 2015, 09:47:52 PM
Yeah driving does really drain you, especially on windy twisty highways! Did you do a lot of (or all) the driving yourself?
I probably went 500 miles in a car last week! Everything from unpaved roads to rush hour Anchorage traffic to the twisty, most-dangerous-in-the-state Seward Highway, to 4 lane 65MPH freeway, to residential streets.  It personally annoys me though when I glance over at the speedometer and the person I'm driving with is doing almost 80 in a 55 or 65MPH zone. 
Did you ever see that story I posted about being locked out of the rental car, key fob sitting on the seat? (Buried amongst other non-lighting topics).
Lots of HPS in Alaska in general, though there's plenty of MV still in private use it seems, albeit cheap yardblasters. 
Did you know that almost every car in Fairbanks has an extension cord sticking out of the radiator grille? (Block heaters when it gets to -40F).  (Even the taxi I rode in had this). 
I told the story about my dad telling me to go to the really good junk store (that ironically had burned down) to the other lighting/good junk guy in my area (many of my F40 lamps came from him) and he got a kick out of that one of course...as did I, even at the time! My dad told me that was such a great store though...but if you ask me the stereotypical end to any thrift store is it burning down LOL.   
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 25, 2015, 10:23:33 PM
Nope I couldn't drive at all since it was a rental car (have to be 25+ years old to drive a rental for insurance purposes). We drove about 2600 miles total from here to Florida and then back. Plus the driving we did during the week. In total, it was about 20 hours of driving time counting traffic. We did as much as we could the first day, staying in a Days Inn overnight both times, and drove the rest the second day. Why does it annoy you? It would have taken us hours longer if we actually drove the speed limit, and to be honest we weren't driving much faster than the flow of traffic either. Slow drivers bother me a lot more. Overly cautious drivers are the ones more likely to cause an accident. I hate the people who purposely drive the speed limit in the left lane, as if it's their duty to god to slow down speeders or whatever. Like get the f**k out of my way and let me get to where i have to be!!! lol. IMO, go as fast as you want as long as A) the cops don't see/catch you, B) you're comfortable driving fast, C) you don't pose a risk to others. I hate tailgaters and people who weave in and out of lanes. That's just being an @$$hole lol.

Nope I don't recall that story. Doesn't sound like fun though! I honestly pictured your neck of the woods (Sitka, etc) to be mostly MV and incandescent. I figured such a small town wouldn't bother to have "The latest and greatest" of street lighting lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 26, 2015, 12:13:46 AM
Yeah come to think of it I'd heard the 25-or-older rental car thing on this trip too.  Most of the other teens in my group thought it was ridiculous, I said it surprises me but also doesn't surprise me.  2600 miles? That's a LOT of driving, though I'd rather do that than fly to be honest. 
It just...does.  But when you finally slow down to the speed limit it feels like you're crawling.  But yeah if everyone else is going faster you have to also I suppose.
While in Fairbanks, I witnessed the (to me) funniest thing: We pulled off the freeway to go back to our hotel for the night, and there was a car that was speeding...police car comes out and instantly turns on his lights and pulls the guy over LOL. 
Yeah tailgaters are really annoying.  Do you know the "4 seconds" rule? Same for lane weavers...the worst of those are people who on empty highways (Read: some parts of rural Alaska) drift over the yellow line, and go several thousand feet in the "wrong" lane, just because no other cars are coming.
Another thing you get up here: frost heaving in pavement...so you have these "bumps".  I know of one highway going into Thorne Bay, AK where there's about 3 of them in a row.  Most local drivers know to slow down there but others hit them at 50+ MPH (speed limit is 50) and BANGBANGBANG! 
I find roads in Alaska interesting/unusual in general.  Leaving Anchorage on the Seward Highway, you go from 4-lane 65MPH freeway, there's one of those radar speed traps, and then it's winding 2-lane road.  It's actually the most dangerous highway in I think the country, but at least Alaska.
I made reference to it a few posts back here, talking about those key fob things, in the middle of a radio/Deuce discussion you may have just skimmed over/found uninteresting.  It's more impressive if you know the area in person, but we were on the Seward Highway, about halfway between Anchorage and Seward (about an hour each way to either city for you speed limit pushers) and we got out for a photo op...and part of our group locked themselves out of their (rental) car, (Dodge minivan if you want a visual), key fob sitting on the seat and all.  The car also didn't have a regular "ignition" either, you stuck the fob in there to start the car.  The drivers' door had a keyhole but we didn't have that key, it being a rental car.  We even looked in the gas cap for a hidden key LOL.  Thankfully there just so happened to be cell phone service in this spot (There's a good 40 miles of no FM radio at all and probably no cell coverage) and we were like "call Budget" but they didn't answer.  And it would've been AT LEAST an hour each way for a locksmith, from either Anchorage or Seward, if they would eve go out that far for a service call. Finally an R/V'ing couple showed up and managed to help us break in with a long thin piece of metal, thankfully WITHOUT the alarm going off!
I told my dad the story later and he found it totally ridiculous.  He asked "What did you rent, a 1950s junker or something?" "No, POS Dodge minivan".  He's like "Just call Budget and have OnStar unlock it!"
Yeah you'd think so.  All the cobras we streetviewed in Sitka were HPS, though induction and LEDs are showing up as well, which I actually prefer over the nasty orange light of HPS LOL.  It brings back the MV days I guess. Sitka's up to like 10,000 people now though, not that "small" anymore.  What shocked me is that Seward is only 3000 people (in the summer) counting outside the city limits too to Mile 17 on the Seward Highway. 
Anchorage, Fairbanks, Juneau, etc. are all mostly HPS, and a lot of it too, lining all the freeways and everything.   And those time and temp signs are EVERYWHERE in Fairbanks and even Anchorage.  And did I mention gas is 2.88 a gallon in Anchorage, and 3.08 a gallon in Fairbanks? (Yes, in Alaska, at multiple different brands of gas stations) That's cheap! As opposed to here where #2 diesel at least was like 4.25-4.50 a gallon! (not sure about gas but I bet it's in excess of 4 dollars a gallon),


Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on April 26, 2015, 10:47:56 AM
Quote from: xmaslightguy
I may be going to a meetup of members from some of the xmas-lights forums tomorrow :)
I did go :)
First time I've ever been in a place that's been converted from fluorescent to LED.... they had those standard Dime-a-dozen 3-lamp parabolic trofers that you see everywhere, but they were no longer F32T8's, instead they had those Philips LED retrofit tubes! (pretty sure they were fluorescent last time I was there, because it was quite obvious looking up at the lights, since those LED things only shine light downward)

But just being in the room, you would never know it was LED unless you looked up at the ceiling.


Quote from: Mike
Yay! I'm finally back home! lol. Two LONG days of driving 80MPH really drains you lol (in all honesty, sitting in a car for 16 hours in one day is probably the most tiring thing I've experienced). 
I'd much rather get on a plane and fly if I had to make a long trip like that .lol.


---------
Most of the streetlights around here are HPS, some residential areas are MV, and parkinglots are either HPS or MH, and LEDs are starting to show up on some highways, and parkinglots (especially true in the last 2 years)
 

---------
I installed a couple 1xF23T8 fixtures for the deck this weekend (were originally 1xF40T12 RS, but I converted to electronic T8 & wired up for 2x overdrive). Turned out pretty good, love the way it lights the whole deck nicely/evenly (probably will get very little use, but it gets those fixtures out of the way since they were just sitting around...)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 26, 2015, 11:36:20 AM
Nice! I saw a place on my trip that had those Philips retro tubes, and you could tell the difference but they were decently bright, AND were daylight color temp, which was nice. I should get some to try in my fixtures, but will leave the old (especially if they're magnetic HPF rapid start) ballasts in place and keep the removed lamps on hand.
Nice, does overdriving help with cold temp operation at all?
I had a dream last night in which my dad had this fluorescent fixture...it was a F96 slimline...but was basically an 8'  version of the cheap 4' shoplights, and the lamps were some oddball-name (It wasn't Arc-Ray, it wasn't Ken-Rad, but it wasn't GE/Westy/Sylvania either) F96T12/CWs...and the reflector was sagging in the middle, enough to show a vintage GE Bonusline ballast in there...and I was telling him where did you find this? At the junk store that burned down or something? And that if a lamp goes EOL and you can't replace it to at least remove the offending lamps to not overheat the vintage ballast...
I then woke up and thought I need to install my other 4 slimline fixtures...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on April 26, 2015, 01:37:06 PM
The ones I saw were somewhere between CW & WW (maybe 3500k). The room was decently bright too.
I wouldn't mind taking a pair of the Diogen LED tubes I got at the ReStore a while back & trying them out (I even have an old fixture shell I could use), but I'd need to get transformer to go to 240 or 277...

Overdriving will make the lamps run a bit warmer, so in cold they'd brighten up faster & in general have better cold temp operation (unless ofcourse it got so cold the ballast couldn't fire them up to begin) I did the overdrive just for extra brightness 8). These won't be on if its cold since I wouldn't be outside. Sure will be nice though if I want to grill something - say in the late fall when it starts getting dark early...

The new lamps I used started pathetically dim in the center, one of the things I hate about modern low-mercury stuff. Have one more fixture to put up, but its currently installed in another location (& will need its 1xF32 ballast changed out for 2xF32/overdrive). I just prepared its replacement this morning...was originally 1xF40 & converted to standard 1xF32(don't want overdrive on that one since its a security light that runs every night)  original ballast was a LPF F40RS (good riddance to that), replacement is one of those good Motorola electronics.

Dreams always dig up weird lights LOL wish some of the stuff I've "seen" really existed (either that or I was a way to manufacture it)...

I've got something like 2 HO & 5 slimline (all 8-foot) fixtures just sitting around. LOL maybe I shoulda installed a couple of those on the deck :o big old 2xF96 slimline would give some good brightness, but sure wouldn't be pretty though.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 26, 2015, 01:42:20 PM
Nice, all run-of-the mill striplights I assume? Yeah install those somewhere, they'll free up lots of space!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 26, 2015, 02:10:19 PM
@ Andy; Yeah a lot of driving for sure! But round-trip plane tickets for the four of use would have been over $3300 and we'd still need to rent a car when we got down there so it ended up being much cheaper to drive. The car (2015 Chevy Impala) was very fuel-efficient too so we only needed to stop twice for gas on the way down and twice on the way up and we only got gas once while we were in Florida for the week. So only five (maybe six if I forgot a time we stopped) times we got gas and we drove over 3000 miles in total counting the driving done within Florida!

Oh yea, Rhode Island is the unofficial pothole capital of America lol. They've since filled most of the worst ones that evolved over this past winter but there's still a bunch of them. Four lanes as in four lanes in each direction or do you mean a two-lane 65MPH freeway? I-295 here is 65MPH with two lanes but I-95 is anywhere from 65MPH down to 45MPH with two to five lanes! I-95 in Rhode Island is pretty crazy lol. Any we have a two lane 50 MPH freeway (RI 37) that just abruptly ends at a traffic signal. Until around 2004, the freeway ended at just a STOP sign and there would be traffic backed up for a mile, as the street it ended on had no stop sign. Now there's a traffic light and everything's a LOT better.

Yeah the rental car we had was sorta strange. There was no key for that. There's a button that you press to either start or stop the car. You would need to stick the remote in the cup holder for it to work though. I personally like having a key better because what if the battery in the remote dies? Then you're screwed and can't get into your car!

$2.88 for gas cheap? Hardly! Gas in Cranston at the local HESS is $2.49. In New Jersey gas was slightly cheaper and was full-service too. (All the gas stations along the NJ Turnpike are full-service, something you hardly see nowadays, at least in New England.) What surprised us is that gas is more expensive down south than up in RI since usually it's cheaper down south. RI is notorious for having higher gas prices that neighboring states because of the higher gas taxes (RI taxes the hell out of everyone and yet this state's broke; something's not right here lol).  

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

@ xmaslightguy; ah cool I bet you had a blast at the meet-up. Yeah I'm personally not a fan of those 180-degree shine LED retrofits. Of course, it would just be wasted light shining upwards but the fixtures just look strange. I'd much rather see LED-specific fixtures instead of retrofits (with the exception of corbaheads, since the LED waffles just look hideous). Yeah we'd have rather taken a plane too but round-trip plane tickets would have cost over $3300 so we decided to drive.

I hope the fixtures are vaortights. Here in New England, if you were to install a fluorescent outside (even under a canopy) the thing would rust badly within five to ten years. The humid, salty air destroys steel here lol. I have two 4ft varportight housings but I don't have the 2X F40T12/RS strips to go inside them and don't have diffusers for them either. The two diffusers will cost be about $70 with shipping. Who knows how much the strips will cost. I'd ask on LG but shipping 4ft fixtures would probably be a lot.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on April 26, 2015, 02:59:53 PM
@GEsoftwhite100watts:
Yep, just standard striplights...
Most of them are laying in the crawlspace, so they aren't in the way.. but I'd like to find a use for them "just because" :) I'm half tempted to mount a couple vertically on the garage wall (inline with the strip on the ceiling) (http://www.galleryoflights.org/mb/gallery/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif)


@Mike:
$3300 for plane tickets :o what a ripoff

The meetup was a nice little thing, they may do another next month (they'd like to make it a monthly thing).

Those 180-degree LED retrofits do look weird in fixtures like the ones they were in (that's how I recognized them instantly). Might look fine in a standard enclosed troffer though?

I agree on LED waffles... ugly things those are! A corbahead LED looks just fine though.

The fixtures are under an overhang, so no chance of rain/snow hitting them. They aren't vaportights - just standard fixtures like    this one  (http://www.galleryoflights.org/mb/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-6985)  but Colorado is such a dry climate that on anything protected from rain/snow like that rust is not an issue. Two of the fixtures have been outside for a number of years and have zero rust.
I do have a couple new vaportight fixtures that I picked up cheap at the local ReStore earlier this year (if I had 4 I woulda been _very_ tempted to use those, but I have a spot I may put them anyway).

$70 seems awefully high just for the diffusers. 
You should be able to get standard 4' fixtures used for cheap or even free on Craigslist.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 26, 2015, 06:23:59 PM
Yeah flying is very expensive! You're basically paying for all the extra security they do now.

I think even in a standard troffer or wrap they'll still look weird since light normally bounces off the reflectors and illuminates the whole diffuser. With the LEDs, all the light just shines down so there will just be lit-up "lines" on the diffuser lol.

Wow that's awesome that the fixtures won't rust outside. Here, car bodies tend to rot out in ten years from the humidity and salt. Fluorescent fixtures in basements or garages tend to get light surface rust from the humidity alone! My house has central air though and we run a dehumidifier in the basement to prevent mold (since it's a finished basement in my space-less raised ranch lol). When I move out and get my own place I'll be sure to get a house with a nice large unfinished basement. ;D

The diffusers are actually $19 each, which isn't bad, but shipping is $30, so the total would be $68.  They'd be from this company.  (http://www.plasticsforlighting.biz/product/curled-2/) Yeah I can't seem to find them on Craigslist or eBay. I need two diffusers and two 2X F40T12/RS strips. I'd even settle for F32T8 strips honestly, as long as I could convert them to T12 but newer strips are very flimsy). I do have one diffuser but it's too long for the fixture. I guess they have two sizes for 4ft vaportights...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on April 26, 2015, 08:01:22 PM
I guess it'd have a very 'striped' appearance then. For looks, still better to stay with fluorescents :)

Wow 10 years isn't long, cars rust here (not as fast as for you), but its because they put sand/salt on the roads when it snows.
Some people here actually add a humidifier to their house because its so dry (normal humidity is less than 20%, and it can go down to single-digit %'s )
I have a troffer that I got free last fall, its still sitting outside against the side of the house (so sorta exposed to weather)...has some surface rust only on the unpainted parts. That I do need to clear up some space &
get it out of the weather/safely stored in the garage (actually been meaning to ask my brother if he wants it to put up in his garage since he could actually make use of it)

That looks very much like the vaportights I have. Price isn't so bad til you add the shipping,
but deff makes the $10 I paid for a whole fixture at ReStore a deal..

Those standard 2XF40T12 strips are so common, and I see them all the time on Craigslist here.
If you're gonna put them out in the cold I'd go for the F32T8/electronic ballast... The old F40 RS ballasts don't do well firing up in cold...and totally suck once it gets to single digits or below zero (won't light at all).

Some of the new fixtures are so thin & flimsy they may aswell be made of paper (http://www.galleryoflights.org/mb/gallery/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on April 26, 2015, 08:43:20 PM
@GEsoftwhite100watts:
Tonight I watched that AK radio YouTube vid you linked to a few pages back.
Neat little  portable radio.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 26, 2015, 09:18:51 PM
Yeah did you see my comment on it?
Here stuff rusts fasts in the damp, rainy climate.  And yeah car bodies will rot out quickly. 
Imagine those LED retro lamps in a vintage shoplight like my Sears ones where the lampholders are angled? I'd think it would make a dark spot in the middle. Many of my fixtures have surface rust though from sitting in damp places for years before I got them (Granted, I haven't exactly kept them in a nice heated area either). 
My dad once found a 4' Lithonia single lamp vaportight for 10 bucks at the thrift store that burnt down, but it had a 277v Advance T8 ballast which I swapped out for an electronic T12 Advance 120-277v unit wired for one lamp.  I bet that fixture has like $50 in it now with a new lamp, ballast, and sockets. But still cheap compared to the $349 I saw for one at a marine goods store in Sitka.
Ugh airport security, I always go in thinking they're going to get me for SOMETHING! I'd rather drive cross-country. 
LOL yeah but that's cheap in Alaska! I heard on NPR the national average is like 2.49 though.
Anchorage has a lot of 4-lane city streets with a 40 or 45 speed limit (2 in each direction) but there's full-blown freeway with 2 lanes each way at 65MPH.  Same in Fairbanks, a lot more of that actually!
Juneau also has a 55MPH 2-lane-each-way freeway, with a couple random 3- or 4-way stops in the middle with a traffic light...and yeah I think that's ridiculous. Traffic does back up a pretty good way back.
Nice, good that is was fuel efficient! Today I was talking about owning a car and had them guess what I'd drive...they (half seriously) said a Prius! I said guess again.  Needless to say I related the bizarre idea of owning a deuce and a half and that got a pretty good laugh to say the least.  I said you know you have a problem when you look at university campus parking spaces and think wow they're much too small (I actually did this).  I then commented it would be impossible to live anyplace with a homeowners' association.  His comment was "Screw the driveway, park it in the front yard!".  And it went from there.  Reason I mention it is that every person I describe this to says good luck with the gas mileage!  I then describe the multifuel thing...I think running one on used motor oil would get the mileage down to about the same as most modern cars, in terms of actually paying at the pump.  Emissions-wise, it's nowhere even close, but my thought is look at what's in the battery of most electric cars? It's about the same IMO.
And we also laughed at the idea of parking it in my current "driveway" as it'd be the first place I could put one, seeing the reactions of all my neighbors, especially seeing how the comprehensive plan for my town talks restrictively about motor vehicles (ATVs, etc).  It would sure fit a lot of firewood though!


Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on April 26, 2015, 10:44:38 PM
@GEsoftwhite100watts:
I haven't been able to see comments on any video ever since Google did that major "downgrade" to YouTube a couple years ago.

LED retro lamps in a vintage fixture? ... where's the vomiting smile'ie?? .lol.

Nowadays if I came across a fixture with a 277v ballast I could just swap it out since I have a stash of ballasts :)
I was half-tempted to add a 3rd lamp to my vaportight (but I'd have to get lampholders (might actually have to get a 1-lamp F32 ballast too, not sure if I have that)


There was a time when you could drive ATV's on the side-streets here, they even needed a little license plate.
Granted that was a few decades ago....
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 26, 2015, 10:45:40 PM
Yeah the average humidity in RI is 40 to 92% (lower in the winter months). We have no real "dry season" here but need to put lotion on my hands in the winter because they get dried and crack if I don't.

Oh wow if i left a troffer outside for any length of time I'd have to repaint it lol. Yeah they're just generic vaportights with a fiberglass upper housing, an acrylic diffuser, and little brass screw studs inside to mount a two-lamp 4ft strip inside. Yeah the shipping is a killer. I like the ones that use a strip light better than the kind you have with the vaportight housing actually being part of the fixture.

Yeah my distant-future plans for the two vaportights is to mount them under a deck or canopy over a barbecue area, possibly with incandescent vaportight jar fixtures too. I'd like them to be F40/RS but yeah, maybe electronic T8 would be better in the cold. F48T12 slimline or HO would be cool too but they're uncommon and IDK if a taller-profile HO strip would fit inside the fixture body.

Yeah today's fixtures are horrible! :8)



LOL yeah those LEDs would look crazy in your Sears lights. Yeah all my lights are in my climate-controlled house lol (except for some cobraheads and highbays but they're cast aluminum and moisture won't hurt them). My shed is fairly dry (gets humid but the fixtures won't rust from just being out there). Once the end of spring comes though that shed becomes an oven! Fortunately that means that all the bugs die by late June lol.

If there are traffic lights or stop signs on there then I don't think it's a freeway since freeways are supposed to have no interruptions I think. Sounds like there's some pretty interesting highways up there though! Here in RI we're home to many abruptly-ended freeways that were supposed to be longer but RIDOT either ran out of funds or local residents objected so they just ended the freeways at seemingly unfinished interchanges such as  this one  (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8215498,-71.5122915,1075m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en) or  this one.  (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8260889,-71.3653131,369m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en)

LOL I could totally picture the town scorning your "giant truck" lol. Not sure where you'd be able to drive that in Port Alexander though. Isn't it mostly just walking paths and then woods? You could make a pole barn carport for it (or dare i say "deuceport" lol) and paint it some crazy color like neon yellow lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 26, 2015, 11:25:13 PM
No idea what the humidity is here but I'm sure it's pretty good LOL.  My hands get dry too but I admittedly don't do lotion, I should. 
I heat my house with wood though which is a very "dry" heat, you have to keep a pot of water on the wood stove (poor main's humidifier).  No real "Dry" season here, either. 
Yeah I like the striplight type better too, though I overall don't care for vaportights, though they have their used for sure. 
I think F48/HO would be really cool.  I'd like some 8ft vaportights though.  I've seen F48/HO vaportights though, they DO exist.  I'd like to find some HOs period LOL. How big is a HO ballast opposed to a F96 slimline? (never seen one in person).
Some fixtures are junk, though "commercial" ones are better of course.  What I hate the most though are the little T8-only bipin sockets with the green disc, those like to arc and/or just plain fall apart. 
Mine are all indoors sans an installed-under-an-eve yardblaster, but my collection is stored in a loft above a shop/garage, which is cold in the winter, hot in summer, and always damp. (In fact there's a little roof leak in the corner with most of my lamps/fixtures). 
The bugs here are horrible, they're out already! A relatively wet, warm winter didn't help matters either.  I'd think Fairbanks wouldn't have as many but I still heard commercials on the radio while there for mosquito control LOL.  Did you know window A/C units are everywhere up there?
I'll streetview up some Alaskan highways/interchanges later, right now I'm too tired to though, or look at your links.
Not really much "road" here, that's true.  But I'm waterfront-ish with a gravel "road" going up to my house so getting one here would be doable, albeit hiring a landing craft LOL.  It could make it down to my beach to cut firewood though LOL.  But I'd only have one here to store the thing until I moved elsewhere.
I've referred to one area of my place as a "carport" before, in fact when I got the Metalux/Gibson 1X4 F40/RS flush-mount troffer lights from the remodel job at my school someone else here wanted one...I'd grabbed it though so it wouldn't get tossed...I said "It's sitting in my carport". Anyhow they ended up letting me keep it.  So the longest I've left a fixture outside (but under cover) is about 3 or 4 days. 
"Deuceport"...again, you crack me up! I think some of my neighbors would find it hilarious though.  It's funny to imagine giving directions to my house: "Look for the one with the army truck in the driveway, it's impossible to miss".  Even here there's people who have never been to my house, or haven't been here in 20 years or something.
  Not worth building one though for the few months I'd have one sitting here, though it would be for a shop/woodshed. Neon any color? Nah...but I've also thought of painting my house some outrageous color for that same reason.  Eventually we're building one as part greenhouse, part generator shed, and part woodshed.  (Getting the generator away from the house, the woodshed back onto our lot, and a greenhouse).  Have you ever carried sheets of 3X6 sliding door glass? It's SCARY!
It's also amusing to imagine parking one in a university parking lot (Getting a parking sticker alone!)...or parallel-parking downtown..or going through a fast-food drive-thru...but I can see advantages with the cold starting ability if I end up in Anchorage and/or Fairbanks for a few years doing college...although it'd be miserably cold to drive around in one in the winter and swelteringly hot in the Fairbanks summers.  And California...that'll be pretty hot. But there's just that "cool" factor, like lighting most of my house with linear fluorescents...Prius=spiral CFLs, Deuce=F96/HOs to compare them with lighting...
I know of a town where you could drive them on "normal" streets but there wasn't much traffic, I don't think there was a single stoplight in town LOL.





Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on April 27, 2015, 04:02:13 PM
F48/HO vapourtight fixtures are still fairly common here in Ontario. I suppose the cold weather makes HO needed. In fact Home Depot and Lowe's here used to sell F48T12/HO striplights which I haven't seen at Home Depot or Lowe's in the US. Most HO ballasts are the same length and width as a slimline ballast but are 1-1/2" so they don't fit in most RS/SL fixtures. I do know that they made short HO ballasts which will fit in a standard striplight. That or convert it to electronic HO. :P

I suppose the only dry season here is the brief time in spring and fall between summer and winter. Aside from that summer and winter are pretty wet lol. AC is really common here, most places have a central unit that hooks into the heating system as everyone here aside from older buildings uses forced air heating.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 27, 2015, 07:36:29 PM
@ Andy; Yeah I just don't know if the ones I have will fit a F48/HO strip light since I think they're taller like the 8ft HOs. I know for the 8ft vaportights, they make a version the same height as the 4ft ones for slimlines and one with a deeper diffuser for HOs. They don't make a deeper 4ft diffuser though. Yeah those little "disc" sockets can be a pain but I kinda like them since you can relamp with the power on without worrying about one of the lamp pins touching a socket contact and turning the fixture into an electric fence (well, not quite a fence but same principle I guess lol).

Oh I make sure all my lights are protected from water, even the cobraheads, aside from those on guard duty in the back yard. We had a very cold snowy winter here so not many bugs here yet but they'll be coming I'm sure. The grass is very green now. When we left for Florida it was all yellow-brown and dead looking. Now everyone's lawn is such a vivid green color! Of course, with the grass coming to life, so are the weeds. >:( :8) I think by the end of the week, we will have to mow the grass since it's getting longer now, especially in the backyard. Once July-August comes though, the grass usually starts to get a little yellow-brown since the backyard gets sun all day long (front yard gets some shade from the house; the house faces East).  So in the middle of summer we tend to leave the grass a little bit longer than the rest of the year so that the grass won't burn. We have in-ground sprinklers to water the grass and the leeching field helps too (the grass always gets green over the leeching field before the rest of the yard lol). Yeah even if it's not that hot you sometimes just need to run the AC to get rid of the humidity. We do that sometimes since it's way to difficult to sleep when it's muggy. Don't you hate when you put your head down on your pillow and it's slightly damp from the humidity? Ugh I can't sleep like that.

Ah yeah I've used fluorescents for blacklights for the Halloween Scare walk I do at my brother's birthday party but no matter how late it is I always bring everything in at night, even the cobraheads propped up in the fence posts lol. Although I have two cobraheads installed outside, I'll still probably have a couple more lights propped in the fence posts. You can never have too much light lol.



@ Joe; Yeah HOs are not common here at all except for sign lighting probably. Ironically, I saw more HOs in Florida than I've ever seen here lol. I'm actually surprised how many places still use T12s on my east coast journey down I-95 to Florida and back. RI is almost all T8 but a lot of places in the Carolinas, Virginia, and Florida have T12s (can't speak for any of the other states since we didn't stop in them except in New Jersey at a service station, but it was T8. Hmm yeah electronic F48HO wouldn't be any more interesting than T8 to me lol. Slimline would be cool but my first go-to is bi-pin F40/RS. They wouldn't do so well in the winter but my plan would be to have three or so vaportight incandescent fixtures too with 100W incandescents to help brighten the area in the winter (on a separate switch from the fluorescents).

Ah the spring is usually pretty rainy here. Usually by early-mid May the rain dies down. Summer 2014 was very dry. It only rained twice the entire summer! On 4th of July and one other time (maybe another third time too). The 4th of July one was a huge rains storm that happened while I was at camp. It poured like heck all day long with thunder and lightning. The other storms were just light rain. It wasn't an incredibly hot summer either. It was actually quite comfortable, very rare for Rhode Island summers. Usually there's only two or three "perfect" days in the summer here (at least in my book) and only a dozen or so "perfect" days throughout the year here. Normally it's either too humid, too windy, too hot, too rainy, or whatever lol. Of course everyone has their own preferences though, these "perfect days" are just my opinion lol. We have forced hot air and I hate it so much. Forced hot air bothers your sinuses since it's a very blistering dry air that blows a ton of dust around. Steam heaters actually provide the best quality heating but most people are turned away by the giant ugly radiators and contractors don't like them since they're very heavy and expensive because of all the cast iron and steel (forced hot air doesn't require pipework either, saving lots of time too). A steam/radiator heating system can be just as efficient as a forced hot air system with a high-efficiency boiler/furnace though. I personally prefer gas over oil since gas burns a lot cleaner (oil leaves a lot of soot and grime and requires more maintenance) and requires a huge tank that takes up the space that a washer and dryer would take up lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on April 27, 2015, 08:30:19 PM
Mike:
One thing I noticed when I had one of those vaportights taken apart it that the fiberglass 'shell' looked pretty generic, and like a standard 2x strip would fit with no problems.
There's a strip of vaportights at work that look *exactly* like the ones I have... except the light inside is different(I think its a standard 2xF32 strip, but I've never taken one apart to peek inside as tempting as it is)

Electronic T8 would do way better in cold, believe me on that! (electronic T12 should work equally as well . I should do some 'tests' with that next winter)
HO F96T12 does fine in cold, even below zero :) That I have tested... I could just see attempting to mount one of those big heavy beasts outside, wouldn't be fun. Deff would make an awesome deck light!

The same ReStore also had some 2x4 troffers that looked like they were vaportights (really nice fixtures, and 6-lamp I believe too) but they were $40...

I guess you could call spring the "wet" season here ... using wet as a relative term LOL
Ofcourse if you're talking the mountains, then they get more snow & rain than down here on the plaines.


@GEsoftwhite100watts:
Yep 'commercial' fixtures are allot better than the cheap residential ones.
And I hate those little short T8 lampholders too.
The lampholders that suck the worst are those 'cutout' type they use on 1xF40 RS LPF fixtures, I despice that crap.
(1xF40 RS LPF ballasts suck too, I think I'm gonna eventually convert the ones I have to electronic - probably go for those good old motorola ballasts.)

Most of my 'extra' (ie: those not in use) fixtures are kept inside, & some in the garage. And all lamps are kept inside.
Don't really like leaving stuff outside too long, but also don't have much space.

I've never carried just a glass itself from a sliding door, but I have carried the door part (glass & frame together)

Mosquitoes aren't much of a problem in my location, I can actually sit outside on a summer evening at sunset (prime mosquito time), and may or may not see a couple (I think I saw all of a dozen -at most- for the entire summer last year.)


@joe_347V:
I don't remember seeing F48T12/HO striplights at HD or Lowes here, but both sell F96T12/HO fixtures.


@Mike: I've used blacklights at halloween too, one year I also used a gold (which I had on a dimmable ballast, and that connected to a thing that faded it up/down :) )
I've on other years used a green or a red too.


----------------------------
A couple weeks ago on craigslist I saw a 5'x10' fluorescent sign frame (that took F120T12 HO lamps!)
Instant thought I had is that gigantic monster would make an one heck of an awesome shoplight :o :o .
 GEsoftwhite100watts, you should get a good laugh out of this...^^there'd be something you'd need that deuce and a half to transport! Couldn't you just picture that monster of a light going down the highway (preferably turned on!)

Last week someone had a couple 2x F48T12/HO strips on there.. those I probably shoulda went after (then kept one as is & converted the other to F36T12 HO since I have both sizes of lamps)


---
and just noticed an ad from yesterday... someone has a bunch of those little fluorescent tubes from inside LCD monitors/TV's .. Free! .. oh :o if only that wasn't a 2+ hour drive each way..........
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 27, 2015, 08:53:56 PM
Yeah the first time I took apart a vaportight fixture the thing I noticed was the standard-looking 4' striplight inside.
The WORST though in cold is the choke/capacitor/ignitor "LOA shoplight" setup, ESPECIALLY if 34 watt lamps are used!
F48/HO (With Altos!) starts dim and flickery in subfreezing but above zero temps (They're Altos!) then warms up to be bright pretty quickly (a friend's shop has some like that). 
Here it's wet all-around but snows only in the winter/early spring.
I have some "commercial" Lithonia wraps in my house (2XF32T8) that even fit a T12 just fine (I have one T12 lamp in one, I'm out of spare F32T8s).
Never seen LPF RS cutout lampholders...do you have a pic?
"space" is a relative thing for me, but yeah my collection is outgrowing the available space 4 years in already.  Never mind those who have collected for decades!
It was scary, the glass itself "wobbles" and "flexes". Had to carry eight sheets about 100' that way. (Yes, wearing thick gloves)
Wow that's really good! Here we have these "no-see-ums" that are so small they FIT THROUGH STANDARD WINDOW SCREENS!
That had me cracking up of course...especially the "turned on" part. How about a few slimlines in there too?  How about that in stop/go rush hour traffic? (I instantly picture Anchorage, AK or San Jose, CA).
I'd love to find any 4' or 8' HO LOL.
My grass is nice and green now too, I was gone for a week and came back and was impressed how much greener it was! It's still winter in Anchorage but was pretty nice in Fairbanks.
The house in Atascadero also would have the grass green up first right by the septic LOL.
I don't care for forced-air heat but at least it circulates itself. I also dislike any type of oil (#1 diesel) heater/furnace, when they malfunction the smell is horrible! And cleaning out the soot...don't even get me started! (I've done it, I'm talking from experience).
As for the tank taking up the space of a washer and dryer...it's LEGAL to have one in the basement then? I didn't know that! Mine is next to the house under a porch roof and I consider that to be bad enough/borderline not up to code.  But if you have a gas furnace and run on propane you still have the big tank...but I don't even have that, I have those 100LB PITAs for my kitchen range and clothes dryer...they're a paint to move around when full to say the least!
I like the idea of radiators, especially having a generator anyway for power that would be easy to implement (I know people who also live off-grid who have done that, AND heated domestic hot water that way). 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on April 27, 2015, 09:30:47 PM
I fried a ballast in one of those crappy LOA shoplights once by leaving it on/flickering in below-zero weather (have a couple of them in the shed.) .. There have been times when I've went out to get something when its below zero, and so cold that those lights don't even turn on (and I mean absolutely nothing, not even any sound, the switch may as well be off. .lol. )

They look like normal lampholders from the outside, except they have an extra white wire, inside there's this crappy extra metal contact thing (will have to see if I've got one laying around that I can take apart & show the insides)

I don't know if they're 'no-see-ums' or something else, but I have seen little flying things here that can fit through screens. They're not real common whatever they are.

I was actually picturing just that mess of rush hour traffic .. if anything they should call it slow-hour or crawl-hour, since you won't be 'rushing' anywhere!

I've actually had to get out the mower on the front lawn (back needs it now too, was gonna do it yesterday but it rained)

My furnace (boiler, actually since its hot-water heat) is natural gas. Thats standard here for anywhere in/near larger cities/towns. Then in any rural or mountain areas people have those big propane tanks & gas furnace. (and ofcourse there's electric heat, which is rare, since it costs a fortune to run)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 27, 2015, 10:04:31 PM
LOL yeah, and I picture it being surrounded by Priuses and Geos as well.  But with a vehicle like that I'd admittedly be contributing heavily to the rush hour hell...
Electric heat is great if the power is hydroelectric and thus free, but otherwise yeah it causes a fortune. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 30, 2015, 07:58:21 PM
@ xmaslightguy; Yeah my grandpa's F96T12HOs start up nicely in the cold but the slimlines are helplessly striating and struggling to stay lit lol.

In the summer mosquitoes are a huge issue here, especially since they sometimes carry Eastern Equine Encephalitis (EEE, or "Tripple E" as it's called here) and West Nile virus. They literally form clouds around here, with all the fresh water ponds in New England. It's crazy. Gnats are a PITA too. They're harmless but a huge (well, tiny actually) nuisance.

Ah cool about the blacklights! I only have one F20 and one F40 BLB. I want to get a second of each but they're pretty expensive, like $10 each.

Wow! They don't even come on? What type of ballast? Are they the LOAs you're talking about? I've never seen cut-out lampholders either. The single lamp RS fixtures I've seen just use regular sockets. We have those no-see-ums here too. They kinda sting when they fly into you. They're a real pain in the ass...

Here most people have separate hot water tanks and furnaces. Only old houses with steam radiators have the combined systems, which are stupid IMO since I would think that you need the heat on to get hot water... My house has a natural gas (methane) 50 gallon hot water tank and a natural gas fired forced hot air furnace/AC system. Both the AC and heating systems are in one and use the same vents.



@ Andy; Hmm I think my grandpa's F96T12 Altos start off steady in the cold. Yeah my collection is growing like wildfire too lol. Once summer comes I'll probably take over the shelf in the shed lol. I'm hoping Marco takes his M-400 this summer so I can have the space back. I might ask him for his address and I'll just drop it off myself or something lol. I love having the M-400 since it's a really sweet light but the thing is huge and takes up a lot of room.

Yeah, aren't they always in the basement? I've only ever seen propane tanks on the outside. Oil tanks are always in the basement here. There's a pipe that comes out of the side of the house that the oil truck hooks onto and fills up the tank from outside. I would think the tank would rust out if it was mounted outside since I think they're steel.  here's a common installation.  (http://www.parksideoiltankservice.com/wp-content/gallery/oil-tank-installation/oil-tank-installation-indoor-basement-275-gallon.jpg) The things are just massive!

Nope, I have natural gas heat and hot water so no tanks (but we get two bills from NGrid instead lol). Yeah steam radiators are good because they don't have drafts and the room temperature stays more constant too. With forced hot air, when the heat comes on the room gets hot and then within ten minutes of it being off the room is cold again. Steam radiators hold in the heat since moisture holds heat longer than air. The downside is that if the system has been off all day on a cold day it will take a while for the water to get hot enough to start heating the home whereas forced air starts working instantly. I say steam heat is worth the extra 20 minutes to a half hour of waiting lol. I actually know a lot of places that have electric baseboard heat here. It's not as uncommon as you may think. It was very common in 70s and 80s homes here.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on April 30, 2015, 08:36:46 PM
@GEsoftwhite100watts:
LOL all those little cars .. if one cut you off, the temptation might be too great to simply run it over :8)

@Mike:
West Nile Virus is an issue here now too. :(
I've heard people talk about  'clouds of mosquitoes' :o - usually from someone in the southern coastal states.
Around lakes/rivers there's mosquitoes here ... but nothing like that (though if you are are near water like that and aren't moving you're gonna get some bites. I've found if you're moving - like walking or hiking they generally can't find you). Still nasty little vampires :P

Oh and I hate those stupid little gnats. seems I'm always killing them. ug. such pesty little things. 

I had a couple F40 blacklight lamps that I got years ago (don't even remember when or where)... then a couple years ago I went to a new ReStore they opened here, and noticed they had some blacklights in with the other fluorescents...no price ofcourse so I had to go find someone & ask how much fluorescents were. the guy sad  $1 per tube ... needless to say all 4 cases of 6 went right into my cart :)  $24 and I have a lifetime supply of F40 blacklight's :8

Yep didn't even come on, they are just the standard LOA shoplights. Can't remember how cold it was, other than more than 10 below, may have been as much as -20.

Those cut-out lampholders look exactly like a normal lampholder unless you take things apart... if you have a 1x F40 fixture (with a LPF RS ballast) and see 2 white wires going into one of the lampholders, its likely a cut-out.
I've got a 1x F40 fixture laying on the floor taken apart (its the one that will be installed up high that I mentioned earlier .. have already swapped out the LPF ballast for electronic F32 :) since it'll be out in the cold)
If the cut-out lampholder on it comes apart I'll take a picture in it.

The hot water tank is separate for me too...for heat inplace of a "furnace" there  is a "boiler" (which everyone here still calls a furnace anyway, I could probably try & take a pic, but not sure how well it'd turn out...plus its not a light LOL )
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 30, 2015, 09:24:32 PM
Yeah you'll get bitten even if you're walking here. Those vampires are stalkers too lol. Once the find you they'll follow you until they get you lol. Oh wow that's one heck of a score! Were they a major brand or no-names? Either way, a great find. :)

Oh, why are they called cut-out sockets then? Ah I see. Boiler and furnace are used interchangeably here lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on April 30, 2015, 10:05:55 PM
eeek they're not supposed to stalk you . lol

They were GE! Deff a score :)

I just posted a   pic/description  (http://www.galleryoflights.org/mb/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-19277) to show it :)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 30, 2015, 11:59:12 PM
Oh yeah those M-400s are huge, I have one too but honestly if I never saw it again I wouldn't miss it.  But if I get the opportunity I'll probably grab it, and pass it on to a fellow collector.
I don't know if the mosquitos here carry any viruses but they're still really annoying, LOL. And here they WILL find you.  The no-seeums will too.  You can kinda slap them off but in the amount of time it takes to hammer in a 16 penny nail (personal experience here one late August/early September afternoon) they're on to you again.
"Boiler room" also refers to a room full of telemarketers/political campaigners making calls/phonebanking.
Those oil tanks are also common here but they're almost always outside.  Granted, not many houses here have full basements anyway.  But to me having one indoors seems like more of a fire hazard than anything else LOL. (At one point I had a 55 gallon plastic drum set up as one indoors (NOT in a living space though) that even had the top cap/bung missing, THAT'S worse though).  Also had an inverter and set of batteries near it, as well as a generator stuck out an open door when running. (Mind you, ALL of this has since changed). At one point I also had a 100Lb propane tank indoors, hooked up to my kitchen range before the line got ran outside, and before that same tank feeding a propane camp stove!
I've seen those furnace-hot-water setups too.  Yeah not very effective in the summer! The equivalent of that around here would be having coils in a woodstove, heating a 50 gallon electric water heater with the element either never wired in or only when a generator is running.  Here it gets warm enough in the summer a woodstove/any heat isn't really needed so yeah same problem.  My hot water, however, comes from an oil-fired (#1 or #2 diesel, it can run on either or a mixture of both) stove with coils that also contributes some heat to the house, though in winter it's not enough by itself so I fire up the woodstove.  I'd like to replace that with a wood cookstove though, and ideally I'll have my 10Kw diesel generator going again by then so I'll just wire up the electric element in the tank for when the stove isn't going.  Or I'd install one of those propane on-demand units in the outgoing domestic hot water line so when the tank is depleted or cold that kicks in. The same thing would work on one of those old furnace/hot water systems in an older house, as would replacing the tank with a regular 50 gallon electric or gas water heater so they'd supplement each other. (I know someone's house where just that was done, a regular 50 gallon electric water heater was added since the hot water supply was inadequate).
Best one I know of though is someone's house (off-grid power like mine) where their generator's waste heat is used for radiant heating in the floors and heating domestic water.  Another neighbor has a similar setup with baseboard radiators except theirs used to heat a hot tub.  But that generator died so it's not used anymore, though all the plumbing is still there.  And yeah when it was running you got the "water running through copper pipe" sound.
Speaking of that, I'm doing a little army truck research as time permits (Between other stuff, I was just thinking today that LG and GOL take up a LOT of my time!).  Anyhow Mike, remember a few months ago how I was relating a story of , as you put, "finding a source for a deuce and a half" (It's here: http://www.galleryoflights.org/mb/index.php?topic=17.1200) and said I'd keep you posted on any developments? Anyhow in my albeit-not-that-intensive-or-serious looking around I'm thinking this is a 5-ton, going from how it was described to me.  (1972 and 20' bed sounds like an AM General M813).  I could be totally wrong though and "typing" out my pant leg though.  I'm going to try to find out more about this thing...between a bizillion other projects (I'm almost done with school, working like crazy on boat projects, planning to apply for at least one scholarship this week, etc).  But I see this guy on a frequent basis so I think I'll try to learn more.


 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 02, 2015, 10:56:37 AM
Yeah they're pretty big. I love older lights though and the M-400A your godparents have is definitely a nice one as long as water hasn't damaged it over the years. from being upside-down. If you get it and ever make it cross-country I'll definitely trade you a preheater or something for it.

My grandma's/aunt's/late-grandpa's house has oil heat and a 40-gallon electric hot water tank. Not sure what my other two sets of grandparents have but all three have oil-fired steam radiators for heat (my grandparents' mobile home in Florida must have electric heat though, I'd imagine an oil or gas furnace wouldn't be practical). They have central AC so maybe they have forced hot air. My grandma/aunt/late-grandpa has central air retrofitted into their home around 2003 after a bad heatwave but still have their steam heating system and two separate thermostats now. The AC one is a heat/AC combo but they had just left the preexisting heat thermostat alone. To shut the heat off you just turn it down all the way. For the AC it has an OFF button just like mine.

BTW, I repainted my 1940 F40/PH strip light from my grandpa's shop. I used hammered silver. Interesting look for the fixture. The paint sorta ran a little but still looks kinda cool. Tomorrow or in a few days I'll put it back together with an NOS GE ballast from 1987 (not as great as the original but I've sorta given up in restoring the original ballast for now; I'll consider re-winding the ballast with new insulating paper and leads at a later date, when I have a little more experience with it. I'd love to get the ballast going again but if I'm risking screwing up, I'd rather leave it original for display/conversation piece.

BTW, again: the fixture is reassembled with the NOS GE ballast and nice silver paint. The paint job isn't the best, it ran a little. I didn't sand off all the old thick paint (white from when the cinderblock wall was painted; originally the fixture was chrome/silver) so I used hammered silver to try and cover up the old paint chips and drips instead of having it blatantly obvious. Worked quite well actually. You can see it close-up but from afar it's not bad! And the silver looks really nice in contrast to the black sockets and white tube.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 02, 2015, 10:18:37 PM
IF (IF) I get ahold of it and make it cross country, or vice-versa, you can have it LOL.  Would you want me to try firing it up at all? (And if it erupted into fireworks upon testing would you still want it anyway for a future project at a later date?). I'd just keep an eye out for a 250w HPS lamp at the ReStore nearby, or bring my 400w new-in-sleeve Sylvania on a "lamp vacation" to test, albeit underdriven.  If not I could leave it as-is, even with leaves and cobwebs in there if you'd prefer to do all the work yourself (Might be a safer bet, I'm ignorant with streetlights LOL).  If nothing else it'd be cool to meet another major lighting enthusiast in person.  BTW if you haven't noticed member Icefoglights on Lighting Gallery is from Alaska as well, in fact the area (Fairbanks) that I might move to for college.  Kinda neat having someone from a similar situation to correspond with about all the same stuff!
I've seen plenty of mobile homes with oil-fired forced-air furnaces before.
Neat, it's been restored! I've been doing a lot of painting too lately, though not on light fixtures, instead on an old wooden boat (also from 1940 I might add).  I wonder if some of the stuff I'm scraping off is old enough to be lead-based?! (And I'm admittedly not wearing a respirator).
What are you using for a lamp? A blackender would look neat in there.  Or go all modern with a GE Ecolux lamp or an Alto or something LOL.
Is that '87 ballast F34-safe? (It should be if it lists both 30 and 40w lamps).  If so you could run that last/3rd pre-Alto cool white 34w Philips Econ-O-Watt in there, on preheat operation no less! (34w on preheat always interests me, though NOT on vintage tulamp ballasts!)
Is it going to be installed/operational somewhere in your current house?


Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 02, 2015, 10:36:42 PM
Ah thanks! It's you're light so do whatever you want with it. I  would prefer all the original wiring and components and stuff but if you want to clean it out I won't turn you down lol. I've probably asked, but does it have a PC socket or no? If it's got a PC socket it's safe to say it's 120V or at least 240V. Yep a 400W lamp is fine to run on it; will just run dim and look like a LPS and instant-hot-restrike lol. Yeah that thing would be kinda awkward/large to transport cross-country but if you ever do make it to this area it'd be awesome to trade it with you! I have a couple 250W HPS lamps and a ballast but said ballast has no fixture.

Ah OK i didn't know if electric heat was used to save space. I know their hot water tank is electric since it's installed in the bathroom (I wonder if that's even legal lol).

The ballast is F30T8/F40T12 listed. It doesn't list F30T12 so nope, not really for 34W lamps but as long as it doesn't run hot it should be fine. I'll monitor it. I would probably use one of my red-etched GEs instead though. I tested for literally thee seconds tonight with a Philips made unbranded F40CW and a Sylvania starter. Nope, no plans for any installation in the house. I've had the thought of installing it in my room with a BLB and buying some blacklight posters but my parents don't approve of mounting a fluorescent on the ceiling lol.
Title: l
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 03, 2015, 12:50:28 AM
In that case I'd try to clean it up and test it and rewire anything if needed, though I'd mark things since I know one of your pet peeves is Mr. DIY-homeowner-rewired cobras from other posts.
Awkward/large! LOL yeah.  Another reason to justify owning a Deuce LOL.  (Although it would (barely) fit in a normal car trunk LOL). 
Electric baseboard heat used to be super common in the 70s and 80s it seems.  Not so much nowadays though. 
My bathroom used to have the hot water tank in there too.  (Don't you hate the phrase "Hot water heater? I hate that phrase, it's so redundant!" Right next to the (vintage clawfoot at the time) bathtub too.  It was electric like I said but also heated by coils in a woodstove the next room over, seperated by a curtain covering the hole in the wall the width of a 24" OC stud spacing. 
Also the washer and dryer were (and still are!) in there.  Makes it really convenient when I'm here by myself for days/weeks at a time (It happens frequently): take a shower...throw the dirty clothes in the washer (Conveniently located right across from the stall shower, bathtub is now gone).  When full, start a load.  When done, transfer to the dryer.  Need clothes? Just grab a set out of the dryer.  By the time they dryer is empty the washer is full again and the cycle repeats LOL.   
And as you know the breaker panel is also in there LOL.  Bathroom isn't totally finished either, the bottom 38" of the walls are done in T-111 and the upper half is still insulation and plastic LOL. 
It WAS drywalled but the house was empty for 8 years and there'd been roof/plumbing issues and there was some mold issues, along with a totally rotten, dig-into-the-rotten-T-11-with-your-bare-hands-in-places exterior wall.  So one of the first things, before even totally moving in, was gutting the bathroom/utility room down to the bare studs and completely ripping out the exterior wall (Did I mention there was old 70s black NM cable and metal boxes in that wall, it's the oldest (or 2nd oldest) part of the house).  When we spent our first night in the house the bathroom was still open to the night air sans a drape of plastic over where the wall should have been, electrical boxes hanging down in midair and all.  No running indoor water either but at least the toilet flushed with a bucket!.  It was a big upgrade finally getting running water into two hose bibs in there, one with a short hose into the toilet tank and the other with a garden hose to the kitchen sink.  So yeah it was total indoor camping getting this house liveable!
The hot water tank is now upstairs but the installation is still far from compliant with any applicable codes since it lacks a leak drip pan and earthquake straps, not to mention being on the edge of a lofted floor.  (And hidden behind a kitty-cornered bookcase I might add).  Still survived a magnitude 7.5 earthquake though.  If it leaks though there's gonna be serious issues though LOL.  I've left the house for weeks at a time (in warm weather so don't have to worry about draining the plumbing) and the thought has occurred to me "What if the water heater goes off?". 
The blow-off valve is hooked up though.  (Don't EVER disable that safety feature.  MythBusters did a thing on that and if the thermostat on a water heater gets stuck "on" and the blow-off valve is capped off or disabled or whatever it CAN blow off like a rocket, from the basement of a 2-story house all the way through the attic and roof.  There's been documented cases of this actually happening too (People injured, house had to be condemned and demolished, etc).  So NEVER disable the blow-off valve!
Another bad/illegal water heater installation I have is on the boat...the blow-off valve isn't connected to anything so it would really just spray scalding water straight out.  And it's tied in with rope, not real earthquake straps.  But I don't think normal building codes apply there LOL.
Ever seen those propane on-demand water heaters before? Those are a GREAT idea if you ask me.  Only issue is waiting for the water to get hot since it isn't already hot.  And living in places without piped natural gas there's always the possibility of running out of propane while in the shower (I lived with one for two years and that thankfully never happened, it was always while washing dishes or baking something; stove shared the same tank). But that was at a different house.
My dad's girlfriend's mobile home has the water heater in the back bedroom closet, along with the breaker panel and clothes washer.  Dryer is out in a stick-built addition though.  Another convenient (Or not if you don't sleep in there) location for the laundry: a bedroom! Having been around so many situations like this in my life I have to laugh at those house hunter shows were people balk at the washer and dryer being in the garage and not a separate laundry room!
I'd want to use the red-etch GEs as a pair but that's just me LOL. 
BLB would be cool, just lean it in the corner or something.  At one point I even had an 8ft slimline leaned up in a corner before suspending it (And another time atop a desk for awhile, still acting as the main light source for the room). 
My house isn't totally finished so I don't have to worry about that issue except in a couple rooms, I mount lights in random places all the time.  (Walls, ceilings, etc).


Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 03, 2015, 05:45:59 PM
I don't mind if you clean it out but I would appreciate if you didn't change any of the wiring if you're serious about letting me have it. If it does become necessary to remove something, don't cut the wires. GE uses all slip-on connectors for the ballast so just grab a pair of pliers and pull the wires off the connectors. Back then the companies took pride in making their lights splice-free, which is something you don't always seem now. Nothing bothers me more than splices or modified wiring in a cobrahead lol.

Nah there's plenty of room for it in the trunk of a car. When I went to Joe Maurath's we were able to fit the 1964 M-400, 1965 M-250R, and 1980 OV-15TD FCO in the trunk of my mom's car. The stack of refractors and tote of lamps and PCs (yep, navy blue TOTE filled to the brim!) fit in the backseat with my brother lol.

Yeah it's either a "Hot water Tank" or a "Water Heater". Ah yeah the basement in my grandpa's apartment building was finished but they had to rip almost all of it out to replace heating pipe for the steam heat (turns out they didn't need to be replaced either; something else was wrong). They're still planning to install fluorescent lighting down there and I keep saying that I can do it but no straight answers yet. I did get to see my (well, soon-to-be-mine) car today. Pretty nice! It's a Buick Regal Presidential. Pretty cool car! And fortunately the previous owner didn't smoke since otherwise the car would have stunk and would have been all ashy inside. Also, they brought back one of the Sylvania BLUE lamps but the damn pins are broken. I'm so pissed about that but I'm glad they tried to bring it back. The pins were perfect before. They got damaged on their car ride home (they got pushed into endcaps so now the pins are loose and the lamp is useless. So angry about that but it's not their fault. They were only concerned about the glass breaking, they had no idea that the pins were so fragile. They said they'll make sure the other three are better packed. The Sylvanias are from the late 50s too. I tried inserting it into a fixture and it won't work. If the pins on just one end were pushed it it would probably work but it's both ends.

Here earthquake straps must not be required since none here are secured by anything. Their own weight is enough I guess. Of course, there are no fault lines around here to worry about. We have to worry more about a tidal wave caused by an off-shore quake lol. Yep those on-demand water heaters sound really cool. We talked about water heaters in construction class. I've never heard of the washer and dryer being in the garage. Kinda stupid since you can't park your car in there and I wouldn't want car fumes all over my clothes but that's just me... What bugs me is people who have so much crap that their garage is a storage room instead of a place to park their car. If your garage starts to resemble an indoor flea market it means you need to do some spring cleaning lol. I have two 34W red-etched GEs and one 35W one so I don't know what I'd use. I might use the 34W one and preserve the other two red-etch ones. Anyway, in most houses I find the washer and dryer in the basement. My cousins' house has a laundry "closet" (it's a recessed area for the washer and dryer, covered by a set of bi-folding doors.

No I don't have the room to lean it in a corner. I would want it on the ceiling or not at all. My street light display makes a good desk light but takes a while to warm up lol. Right now I have a flat glass in my M-250CF so it's FCO.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 03, 2015, 07:49:46 PM
So if there's bad/frayed wiring DON'T replace that? I can totally see why you'd prefer that, I hate other people's DIY hack jobs (Although I've done plenty of my own, but I understand them, and only on my own stuff, I wouldn't give someone else a light wired up like a total hack job). Spade connectors? That's handy, just whip out a pair of needle-nose pliers LOL.  The one that really bothers me is splices when replacing fluorescent ballasts, even though with most "replacement" ballasts you have no choice.  But I guess that's roughly equivalent to modified wiring in a cobrahead LOL.
Wow that's a lot of stuff in one car!
Congrats! Yes, good thing it was not smoked in...but is it old enough to actually have an ashtray?
Bummer on the blue lamp.  Try GENTLY (GENTLY)! pulling the pins outward with a pair of needle-nose pliers if you dare.  I had a dream last night I found a lamp like that, how ironic!
Yeah you're not near a fault line.  Come to think of it I've never seen it in Alaska either but it was mandatory in California I think, being right on a fault line.  Grated, every water heater I've seen (at least 50 gallon tank ones) has a warning saying something to the effect of: THIS WATER HEATER MUST BE BRACED, STRAPPED, OR ANCHORED TO PREVENT FALLING OR MOVING DURING AN EARTHQUAKE (among other things).
"Kinda stupid since you can't park your car in there" LOL ya think huh? Our house in Atascadero had the washer and dryer in the single-car (but pretty wide for single car) garage, off to the side with plenty of room to walk past the parked car.  Also there was plenty of other "junk" in there too. But on shelves/workbenches my dad had built.  We even had a 1988 Sanyo stereo system with a turntable in that garage for many years.  So you could listen to the radio, or put on a vinyl, while doing projects, laundry, or blast it loudly with the garage door open while cleaning the pond.  (I have many memories of old vinyls or unheard commercials or radio station bumpers ("95.3 the Beach, rockin' Classics") blaring from the open garage while dealing with "pond scum").
That garage was also lit by '88 Philips F40CWs!, with the old preheat-rapid start etch and Norelco design features overall.
Anyhow yeah someone I know joked once that ONLY in America do people park their expensive car outside so they can fill their garage with worthless junk.  Granted, my "garage" here is full of "junk" too.  It'd be better if it was organized but it's admittedly not.  But someone once commented I could hold a flea market on Saturdays in my backyard, I even call this one corner of my yard "The scrapyard". But even here I know people's workshops/"garages"/yards that have more "junk" than mine does.
M-250CF? Never heard of that before, is that a typo?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 03, 2015, 09:22:20 PM
Well it's your light so I can't tell you what you can and can't do with it but if you're planning to give it to me I'd prefer if it was all original, even if it's in need of repair. GE seems to have used good wires so I don't anticipate anything wrong with the wiring unless it was tampered with. Splices bother me to a degree in fluorescent fixtures but as long as the splices were done neatly and the excess wire is trimmed it generally doesn't bother me (even with wirenuts, though in my own fixtures I'd try to eliminate any splices if possible).

Yeah I might try pulling out the pins but even so, the pins are wobbly/loose and won't seat in a socket anyway. :( Ah our garage is pretty small. There's a few feet of space on either side of the car so you can walk around the car, but there's not enough room to store a lot of stuff. We have a shelf along the back wall for stuff. On the floor we store all our shovels, outdoor brooms, etc. in the corner, scrap lumber, ladders, trash/recycle bins, our bicycles, the push mower (ride-on tractor is in the shed), snow blower, and other small/miscellaneous stuff. We have a radio in our garage too. And also the main breaker is in the garage.

The M-250CF is the "M-250R1 Chicago Special Edition". Turns out the GE-designated name is M-250CF, the same name given to the crimefighters, I think. CF obviously standing for Crimefighter, a chicago-exclusive.   This is the light with the FCO glass.  (http://www.galleryoflights.org/mb/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=741)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 03, 2015, 11:41:08 PM
Yeah IIRC the wiring was fine but the worst that could happen is mice chewing, though that's unlikely.
Hope you can get it going again. 
Radio in the garage? Just a regular "boombox" unit?
Main breaker or the whole panel?
Interesting to know that about the model!
I wrote my self-intro letter for a scholarship application today. I'm terrible at writing formal letters (I prefer writing "free form" in situations like this). 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 04, 2015, 06:56:59 AM
I think the mice would only chew cloth wiring. GE ditched cloth wiring by the very early 60s in their HIDs; pretty early considering some Powerlites used cloth wiring through the 70s and 80s according to Joe.

LOL yeah just a regular radio. The entire main panel is in the garage (we have a subpanel for the basement in the utility room). Ah good luck with the letter and the scholarships! Hope you can get 'em. 8) Yeah I'm better at writing free-form essays but I've actually done quite well on the research paper we've been doing in English.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 04, 2015, 10:49:08 AM
Good thing they did then.  So it SHOULD be just fine.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 04, 2015, 03:04:51 PM
Yeah, if anything the ignitor could be dead (explaining why it was removed) in which case a new one can be installed with no problem (Joe Maurath has a selection of GE ignitors, so odds are he's got a spare for your M-400A if it was bad).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 04, 2015, 07:47:36 PM
That's  a really good thought on why it was removed! But I believe my godfather got this light from a neighbor who had gotten SEVERAL removed from some intersection.  So I'm leaning remodel removal not ignitor inability.
 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 04, 2015, 09:09:17 PM
Hmm yeah sounds like an intersection redevelopment. I wonder if the neighbor still has any more? And any thoughts on why the neighbor or your godfather would be interested in these in the first place?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on May 04, 2015, 09:13:43 PM
I know GE also ditched cloth wiring in their traffic signals since the 50s. I have a GE signal from that era and it used rubber or early PVC wiring. The wiring was still too old for my liking so I redid everything in #14 THHN a few years ago. Since I switched to running LEDs in that signal now (mainly since I find incandescents ran too hot after a few hours) the wiring should more or less last forever now lol.

GE fluorescent ballasts however or at least the Canadian ones, still used cloth wires as late as 1968. I think they switched shortly after since my 1973 CGE ballast had modern PVC wiring.

Yeah my B2255 from 1980 still had some cloth like wiring inside and on the ballast too. The ballast still worked but I replaced it with a 250w MH ballast since some of the wires got chewed up by a bird who made a nest inside and also cause I think the B2255 looks cooler in MV. Even the PC socket had cloth wires. I later replaced the PC socket since I accidentally broke it. I think I might still have original PC socket packed away somewhere lol.  

The B2255 still worked when it was removed, the city removed since they were redoing all the poles in the intersecton.

I installed an outlet on my deck this weekend. I basically ran PVC conduit to the nearest outlet on the side of the house and installed a new surface mount junction box on the railing. Since I ran pipe, I used THWN conductors instead of UF cable. I also had to use a LB to meet code since there were so many twists and turns in the pipe going into the deck (I believe you can't exceed 360 degrees of turns on a single run of conduit). Future plans might include installing a vapour tight incandescent fixture under the deck. I suppose I can also put a streetlight on my deck too like Mike lol. All I have to extend the conduit a few more feet and attach an arm. I guess plugging it in would also work lol.  
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on May 04, 2015, 10:41:13 PM
you guys have been busy posting since I last checked in ;D

------------
A M-400 would be cool to have.. but due to space I wouldn't want on at this point in time .lol.

A couple of the neighbors here have stereo systems in their garages.
I just have a pair of old speakers (& the amplifier-thing is inside.) One of the speakers got knocked off its shelf a couple years ago, & its cabinet fell apart when it hit the floor.. I never bothered to put the thing back together since it still works :P

----------------
I put up the 1xF32 fixture that I was planning to (technically swapped out another fixture for it).. a pain being that it was mounted a good 16' off the ground. (the original got a different ballast & new location..no problem mounting it since it wasn't high....)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 04, 2015, 11:36:35 PM
I think the neighbor gave one to my godfather but I'll ask him next time we talk. 
I've heard that GE's "rubbery" ballast wiring was intentional ballast obsolescence, something in the rubber would corrode the wires and the insulation would tend to flake off, causing an arc and ballast failure before the ballast itself actually quit naturally. Thankfully my GE Bonusline .80 amp F40/RS in my first Sears shoplight seems OK (modern wires) but it has Leaky Tar Syndrome instead. It's a mess of tar, exotic sawdust (It once lived in a woodworking shop) and maybe even PCBs...but it works so I'm leaving it in place.
Nice, you should totally add a streetlight to your deck Joe!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 05, 2015, 12:05:39 AM
OK here's an interesting one: A ballast that's QUIETER on MSW inverter electricity than "normal" power! Case in point, my Advance Mark III slimline.  It's LOUD on "regular" electricity, more so than many other slimlines! (But I've heard louder F40/RS ballasts). This thing even makes the fixture rattle at times (suspended striplight), especially with the "thump" when turned on.  But right now as I type it's running on MSW inverter power and it's QUIETER! (But a different "tone" as well).  Also I've noticed MSW won't let the 60w lamps striate when cold, at least on my other full-power Advance.  But it's totally drowned out by blasting music, which I almost always do! (Case in point, Guns N' Roses-Civil war)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 05, 2015, 02:31:30 PM
@ Joe; Yeah my three Western Electric F20 fixtures have 60s GE ballasts with rubber wires (they're rather gummy). Synthetic cloth wires (silk-like material like nylon) like some fixtures have are actually better than PVC or rubber wires since they withstand high heat. Some GEs from the 80s actually have synthetic cloth wires and some of my mogul sockets have synthetic cloth wires but the problem is that they get cut by sharp objects rather easily (sorta like any wire insulation I guess) and once they tear, they end up fraying and next thing you know the whole thing is unwoven. When I work with cloth wiring, if I splice it I will dab it with liquid electrical tape if it's starting to fray (used to use regular electrical tape). Yeah, using an in-use box cover and then wiring the light to a 16 or 14 gauge cord will work great! If you were to hardwire it, you could add a switch too.



@ Andy; Hmm I thought my 60s F20T12 HPF GEs from the Western Electric lights had rubber wires but maybe not? They're rather gummy and very flexible. They seem to be fine though. Yeah I tested the 1987 GE ballast I put in my 1940 single lamp wall mount strip and turns out the ballast runs quieter with a 34W lamp but gets pretty warm after a half hour to an hour. With a 40W lamp there's a slight, nearly undetectable buzz (34W is totally dead-silent, just a very minor vibration from it) and the ballast runs cool after a half hour to an hour.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 05, 2015, 08:40:13 PM
Rather gummy sounds like that stuff.  Are the wires solid-core or stranded? Last year I was fixing some 2XF96T12 striplights in my godfather's woodworking shop and needed a ballast, so off to ReStore we went, and I found a NOS in tattered original box Jefferson with a white case and "rubber" multistrand wires.  It's undoubtedly decades older than the fixture we installed it in, a 90s-ish (Had original lamps still, GE post-EPACT-but-pre-HG 60w cool white Watt-Misers).  Also it did NOT list 60 watt lamps! I put them in anyway but made it very clear they were not ideal for such a ballast.  Shortly afterward Don93s on LG informed me that 60w lamps are fine if it's rated for 6' 55w F72T12 lamps but I don't remember.  I do, however, recall that it listed F96 at like 73.5w or something weird like that. But it was absolutely silent from the ground (rare for a slimline!) and ran the lamps noticeably brighter/they warmed up faster than the other 90s Lumi-Kons like it replaced.
Another fixture would only light one lamp, at like 2/3 brightness like those things do with one lamp dead or missing, but the lamps were fine (swapped them around).  Ballast in that was a (replacement) Advance (I think a Mark III like the one I'm typing under.  I wonder if it was/is a socket issue? I took the fixture apart, as well as another "original" one to check the wiring schematic and it seems fine. 
Another bad Lumi-Kon got replaced with an electronic Advance the same size as a 2XF32T8 ballast.
The bad Lumi-Kons would hum audibly when power was applied but refuse to light, but would flash for a fraction of a second when power was removed.  I'm thinking bad capacitors since the lamps were all original from the mid-late 90s, (GE Watt-Miser 60w cool white like I said) and they had noticeable blackening but still weren't EOL by a long shot; EOL lamps rectifying on the lag side is usually what kills slimline ballasts.
How warm is "Pretty warm"? Too hot to touch for more than a few seconds?

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 05, 2015, 10:14:43 PM
Stranded IIRC. Yeah I remember that ballast. I think most slimline and HO ballasts are rated for both 6ft and 8ft tubes so you're probably good there. Hmm yeah sounds like the secondary lamp had a bad socket connection or something. Hmm those Lumi-Kon ballasts seem like they're pretty crappy!

Warm as in just warm to the touch. Wasn't really hot or anything (but i was feeling the bottom of the fixture, but the top of the ballast itself since the fixture is weird (ballast is mounted to the part that mounts to the wall but the sockets are mounted to the cover). With an F40 the ballast didn't even get warm. Maybe 34W lamps are OK on it but I'd still prefer to use 40W. 34W lamps are "acceptable" on RS but just seem like a no-no for preheat in general. Like having an HID on a motion sensor (I've seen a HPS tallpack hooked up to a motion sensor; stupidest thing I've ever seen in my life. What was the electrician thinking?!)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 05, 2015, 11:03:47 PM
I'm thinking that too, or an internal fault in the ballast itself someplace.
Personally I think: Lumi-Kon...Lumi-CON! Don't trust any ballast with "Con" in it's name! And I feel like every Lumi-Kon ballast I've seen was just sort of...crappy! I have one, a 2X40w LPF rapid start out of a Lithonia shoplight, that has somehow internally shunted itself for one lamp operation.  Since it's not F34-safe (Even warns to not use them, only 40w or 25w) it overheats and the thermal cutout trips after awhile.  Nonetheless I currently have it being used as a single-lamp preheat ballast in my homemade 4' preheat fixture, but currently that side has no lamp since I was sick of it clicking on and off and I wanted the VitaLite PowerTwist lamp in the other side to stand on its own.
I would love to find a bunch of NOS full power HPF F40/RS and F96/F72 slimline ballasts.  I have one full power Advance slimline ballast but it's got the infamous degraded capacitor problem...it works but isn't reliable in terms of starting.  I'm actually thinking of finding a new ballast for the Lithonia striplight it's currently in (and appears to be the original ballast of), probably modern electronic but ideally NOS magnetic, even if it's an EPACT-era energy saver one, (Trent on LG says the Mark III Advances are pretty much full power in terms of lamp current/light output) and taking the 80s Advance in there now and sticking it in one of the currently-gutless vaportight husks I have to make a nice cold-temp, instant-starting 2XF40.  (Since those are rated for 4' lamps anyway electrically they're more or less the same).  It should also make a good EOL lamp cooker:). But the ballast channel is wide enough and deep enough to fit a slimline ballast so we'll see....
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on May 06, 2015, 02:01:22 AM
@Andy: I heard about that too. Thankfully it seems the Canadian GE gold label ballasts never seemed to have had that problem lol. They're one of my more well made ballasts too, also dead silent too even after being run with 34w bulbs for the past two decades. (My high school which I got the fixture from used Sylvania 34w T12s exclusively). It has now been fitted with a proper 40w T12.

@Mike: Yeah I've have some mogul sockets with that type of cloth wiring too. I think it's some type of fibreglass sleeve over a wire with silicone insulation. I believe they're rated to 200C too so it's perfect for those high wattage incandescent and HID fixtures. I've had the same issues with the cloth fraying too, I might do what you did and coat the ends in liquid electrical tape too.

I actually have some idea on how to mount a light to my deck. I have this 1-1/4" rigid conduit elbow lying around that can take the weight of a medium cobrahead I can use as an arm. As for attaching it to the deck, I'm thinking to fabricate a clamp mount using strut. The clamp mount will clamp to the 4x4 posts that support the hand rail. Then it's all a matter of plugging the light in lol. It'll be a temporary thing though.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 06, 2015, 10:26:52 AM
Yeah are you living in that house long-term or moving out soon? I actually own this one I'm in now so nothing's going anywhere anytime soon except for some major remodeling or a totally new house on the same lot, but that's a long way down the road at this point.  But yeah if I wasn't living there long-term I wouldn't want to put a lot of time, money, and energy into implementing a permanent setup.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 06, 2015, 02:53:23 PM
Lumi-Kon seems like the magnetic-equivalent of Accupro Lithonia ballasts lol.

Do you think my mid-late 60s GE ballasts are at-risk? They have stranded rubber-insulated wires. I forget if they're copper or aluminum though.

The only issue with the conduit elbow is that they're not long enough to allow the refractor door to be removed. So you have to install the light with the door on, something I never do. It works fine for me pop-a-light-in-a-fence-post practice since I install the light onto the elbow inside on the couch and then just carry the assembly out as a single piece and stick it in the fence post. It's easier that way. That's why with my outdoor light pole display I used a 24" yardblaster arm instead of a EMT elbow, since I discovered that issue with the set-up in my room, though in my room it's fine, I guess. What I end up doing is loosening the bolts a lot and then slipping the fixture onto the display with the door closed and latched. Then when it's (loosely) on the arm, I open the door and secure the bolts then wire it up.

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 06, 2015, 07:34:28 PM
I don't know.  Are the wires "Gummy"? If so then I think they may be at risk but I'd use them anyway, liquid-electrical-taping bad spots and waiting until they finally give out completely with a shower of sparks LOL.
If I were you I'd leave the streetlight-in-a-fencepost thing implemented permanently, so they're all outside, on display, and not taking up space indoors, as well as having them wired up to cords and thus operational if needed during a party or something.  Unless of course you're worried about vandalism.
That's why I like my big, private backyard...you can't see it from the front! Even in a town of 45 people, people visit and still marvel at how hidden and private it is! So it's perfect for all my "junk".  People think if I were left to my own devices here for a few years my house and yard would be totally packed, which is probably partially true LOL.  I actually collect more stuff quicker when in the cities though, where more stuff is available (yardsales, etc).  Like I've said before someone else here does the same thing as I, including collecting light fixtures and electrical devices. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on May 06, 2015, 07:53:27 PM
I have something with one of those Lumi-Kon ballasts (probably a 2xF40, but don't remember now)

I've collected far too much 'junk' (a good part of which is lights).. In reality I should sell a good part of it off .lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 06, 2015, 08:17:25 PM
Yeah they're gummy but appear to be in good condition. Will the insulation be visibly degraded from the outside or is this something that I won't see until it's too late?

I only have three elbows to mount lights outside on the fence but I wouldn't want to expose them all to the elements (yeah, they're supposed to be used outdoors but I take apart and scrub down every light I get so I don't want them all outside; I had to wash my M-250A after I took it down lol). Also, they're not secured so they can pivot freely and smack into the fence pickets, which I definitely don't want. Plus it would look rather ridiculous IMO. I don't live in an HOA neighborhood but I also don't want to be the "redneck" of the neighborhood lol. I don't think vandalism is an issue in my neighborhood. Just that it's not secure. We've never had any vandalism issues here, though a few years back (back when I was in elementary school, so like 7 years ago or something) someone or a group of people, teenagers, scribbled on almost every stop sign in the neighborhood and they had gone around and smashed up several mail boxes, ours included. We had gone through two mailboxes (both plastic; one from the baseball bat and the other got ran over on New Year's Eve, leaving snow tracks through our front yard). After that we bought a metal mail box and it's been fine ever since lol. I repainted it last year though since the black paint was faded and chipped. The new paint is starting to peel though from the outgoing mail flag scraping against the side.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 07, 2015, 10:54:47 AM
I don't know but I've heard sometimes the wires can corrode or something.  But I'd use them till they die anyway...my GE ballast has another issue though (tar leak). 
Oh they can't be secured? Yeah you don't want the wind blowing them around.
Real mailboxes are pretty much nonexistent around here, it's either going to the PO (Which I do) or those ones for a whole street block or whatever.  Only place I've see real mailboxes is Fairbanks!
Where I lived in Atascadero they weren't actually on my road though, they were the next street down and in a row of them.  If you want I'll look it up on Streetview.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 07, 2015, 02:58:51 PM
Hmm I'll have to double-check. Is it just aluminum or were the wires copper? My WE lights are not fused but will be grounded when I add cords or hardwire them. Right now all three are cordless and are just used for display. The two used ones are on the wall in the utility room and the NOS-like one (used, but looks like it just came out of the box) is suspended in operating position in the laundry room, since it was too much of a pain trying to hardmount it to the ceiling. I don't have enough endurance to hold the light over my head for more than a minute so it's just much easier to pop a pair of hooks in a couple joists and just suspend the light. The lamps on display in that one are KEN-RAD blackender F20T12s (a white and a cool white).

Nope they're not secured. The posts for the fence are between 2.5 and 3" in diameter so the little 1-1/4" elbows pretty much just float in the posts lol. The weight of the cobraheads keeps them from blowing around but with strong enough winds it's very easy for them to pivot or otherwise be damaged. I'd just feel better having my lights protected from the outdoors, besides those two that happen to be on the backyard poles.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 07, 2015, 10:21:18 PM
Yeah I pictured them fitting in there snugly.  But if not, then yeah I wouldn't leave them outside very long.
These WEs aren't wired up are they? I don't remember if copper or aluminum was worse, though I think my 70s Universal Therm-O-Matic 2X40/35 ballasts may have aluminum wire...do yours have "silver" wire?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 08, 2015, 06:03:51 AM
No they're not too snug. Works great for 1-day events but I wouldn't leave them out for long periods of time. Not wire if it's aluminum or copper.

BTW, I replaced my OV-10IB (175W MV) with my M-250A (100W MV). The OV-10IB had a small BEE NEST inside!!! I had removed it and when I was putting up the M-250A there was a couple bees buzzing around the shed and they would NOT go away. So anyway, I bring the OV-10IB inside and go to put the cord on it and I hear a buzz from inside the fixture. I think for a minute and then I instantly knew what it was. I ran the light outside and blew on the fixture until the bee flew out. It was only one bee inside the fixture. I'm so glad the thing left but stayed in the fixture while the fixture was in the house. The hive was very small, about the size of the cap on a regular sized 3" Elmer's Glue Stick. Good think I removed the OV-10IB when I did or else there would have been a much bigger nest! The M-250A has a pest guard on it so hopefully nothing gets inside.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 08, 2015, 12:51:07 PM
Wow that's kinda scary! (I hate bees).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 08, 2015, 09:24:16 PM
LOL yeah I'm glad it didn't fly out when the light was in the house! I'm also glad the eviction ended peacefully too. You know how some tenants can be when they don't pay rent and you try to kick 'em out lol. I had to evict birds from my M-250A when it was installed outside last spring because I didn't put the bird guard in it. When I installed it this time, i tried my M-250R1's bird guard and what do you know, it fits like a glove! Funny thing is, the M-250As used a different kind of bird guard. The silver M-250R uses an aluminum one that literally fits right around the pipe arm bracket so there is NO change of anything getting in, unless they crawl up the pipe arm. Usually bees won't travel that far though. They want easy in-out. Spiders may venture up the arm. One lineman here serviced a Cooper OVC with a SNAKE inside the light! The snake was drawn in my birds and got tangled in the wiring (or the ballast shocked the hell out of it lol). Two things I hate more than ANYTHING are spiders and snakes. If any creature is pure evil, its them. Animals in general do kill things but only when hungry or threatened. Spiders and snakes kill anything in their path.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 08, 2015, 11:11:09 PM
Yeah how long was it indoors for? Yeah better than other options.  I've heard all kinds of bad 'eviction' stories too, even on LG and here! Don93s on LG once related a story of there being a 175w MV yardlight at somebody's house in their backyard...anyway it wasn't in dusk-to-dawn service and a wasp's nest had gotten established in there...anyway it got turned on during a party and the wasp nest started to cook...there were apparently smouldering wasps all over the ground, etc.
My godparents have an 80s? Regent yardblaster, sporting a nice /DX fully coated Westy Lifeguard lamp, (One of the models with the bulb in at an angle) that has had at least two wasp nests in there for years now.  I've turned the light on for a few minutes on a few occasions (Maybe the only time it's ever turned on!) and nothing has happened thankfully.
Spiders...my dad hates then, especially after being bitten in the forehead twice by one while sleeping! The best way, as gruesome as it sounds, to get rid of bugs like that is with a propane blowtorch!
Another annoying (but more or less harmless I think) one around here are these black beetles about 1/2" long and 1/4" wide.  They're everywhere in the spring.  Once a friend (who always has weird dreams, just like I do!) described a dream to me of being in the shower (so therefore naked of course) and then having like hundreds of them crawling out of the drain or something! Creepy!

Bird guard? Never heard of such a thing.  You mean those metal spike thingies on top?
I don't like snakes either! I don't mind spiders as long as they don't BITE though. (Cringes and shudders). The "good" ones eat all sorts of other annoying insects. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 08, 2015, 11:38:19 PM
Icefoglights' post on the Line Materials Night Sentry he rescued recently and it's comment thread with speculations on the mismatched lamp got me thinking.  Has anyone tried cataloging their collection, and/or putting notes inside fixtures explaining seemingly weird lamp/ballast combos, etc. or just the history behind that fixture? I'm thinking of doing such with my fixtures: where they came from, how I got to know them, (many of them before they were removed and entered my possession), what lamps they had at the time I got them (if any), what lamps I installed after closing them up, etc. Same for lamps: making a catalog of most, if not all, of them, assigned a number, photo, etc. for cross-reference somehow, and then putting in their "story" as well as info about when they date too, what plant they were manufactured, at, etc.  This way, if someone else ever came across my collection if it got abandoned or something they'd know, either if they were already into lighting (I've come across things where I've thought "Did this person collect lighting?" or maybe showing the vintage-ness to someone else and creating another lighting enthusiast!
It wouldn't be hard to fold up a note in the ballast compartment of a fixture, though cataloging loose lamps, ballasts, etc. would be trickier.  I'm really thinking of doing so, though! Anyone else done this?
I just think it'd be interesting for someone to, let's say, come across my first Sears shoplight years/decades from now, and discover a note with it's story.  For example something like:


To whom it may now concern: (and the date it was written).  Here you see a piece of my fluorescent lighting collection.  This particular fixture is a 1970s-vintage Sears shoplight.  I originally knew this fixture from a friend's house, in a woodworking shop there.  A friend owned the house but some other friends were renting at the time.  When they moved out, the house sold to someone else I know, and it was going to be demolished.  I asked their caretaker (who I also know) about it and they said I could have it.  So waited a few weeks, getting very excited and telling some other lighting enthusiasts on a couple lighting-guru websites, lighting-gallery.net and galleryoflights.org, about it.  I finally took it down in November of 2012 one afternoon.  I left it in another shed a few days, then grabbed it again and paddled with the fixture and it's lamps in a canoe across the bay in Port Alexander, AK, walked a half mile with it, exotic sawdust falling off the whole way, then got it home. It had late 1990s vintage GE 34w cool white "Watt-Miser" lamps, which actually caused the tar leak on the ballast, which FYI is an original (1970s) General Electric "BonusLine" high power factor magnetic rapid start ballast.  It likely has PCBs, nasty stuff so be careful in disposing if necessary!!! Anyhow I took it apart, found this ballast (My first vintage ballast, HPF ballast, and full power ballast) then put it back together, breaking a socket and replacing it in the process, then lit it up with proper 40 watt 2011-vintage Sylvania 40w Cool White Plus lamps.  It then sat in my attic for a day, then I installed it in my room, with 1979 GE Mainlighter warm whites.  It then moved out to the garage, with cool white Sylvanias, then back upstairs to my room as a grow light.  It currently, as of the time of this writing (May 2015) has 1990s GE "Plant & Aquarium" lamps.
Thanks for reading!


So what do you guys  think? That's a really long example but that fixture has a long story to "tell".  It would solve mysteries for someone else in the future: "How old is this thing?" Is it collectable?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 09, 2015, 06:21:32 PM
Haha those bees sure got cooked lol. That's certainly one way to remove the nest...

Yep, a bird/pest guard is a little plastic (or metal, in the case of my M-250R) plate that fills in the hole in the back of the fixture where the arm enters. With a 2" diameter pipe the guard usually isn't needed but on a 1-1/4" arm, you need the guard to fill the space between the fixture and the pipe so nothing gets inside. Believe it or not, birds can easily get inside. they squeeze into VERY tight spaces!

I've thought about sticking a label inside each of my lights stating the model number, DOM, where I got it from, etc but I haven't done it. I do write the DOM in all my fluorescent and HID lamps though (unless I don't know the DOM or it's a Philips lamp, since they're easy enough to decode).

BTW, I went to the ReStore today! I bought a 2ft version of the Lithonia wraps at my school. It was a single lamp F17T8/IS version with the ballast removed. I converted it to a three lamp F17T8 instant start. It's got a mirrored reflector (literally a mirror!) It was very easy to add the second and third lamps. Just needed to trip a little off the reflector, which is about the thickness of a tin can anyways so my tin snips were more than enough to do the job. With three lamps, that thing is BRIGHT! There were two of them but I only bought one. There were also two NOS 8ft ones (tandem F32T8 units, with one lamp per 4ft section and mirrored reflectors) but they were $29 versus the $3 for the 2ft ones. I also got a few new Philips F17T8 800 Series lamps too. Four 830 lamps and one long-life 835 (didn't know they were different until I got home, or else I would have bought just 835s...)

I also bought a case of 10 GE SP41s (pre-Ecolux, which is AWESOME!; only two lamps left in the case though) so really I just got two lamps along with the box lol. They had a case of Philips 25W EcoAdvantage F32T8s (T8 version of the Econ-o-watt I guess; they have green etches) but I passed on them since they're ES lamps. If they were full wattage I MIGHT have bought the case, or at least a few.

I also updated the wiring for the deck street light. I added an outlet and replaced the cord with UF up until the deck meets the house, at which point the cord takes over. This was to make the cord "longer" so it would reach the house outlet without the need of an additional cord. Pics to come.


EDIT: The M-250A doesn't work! The rewire on the deck street light was successful; she works great. The M-250A on the shed light pole doesn't work though. The display has power but the light won't light up. See the gallery for details.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on May 09, 2015, 08:44:06 PM
I despise wasps/bees/yellojackets (to me they are all basically the same thing). After spraying a nest with insecticide I always burn it...good riddance. I'd rather see 100 mosquitoes than 1 wasp. LOL
If spiders are outside, I usually let them be.
I also hate snakes. Those should die too...

----------
 
I've thought some about trying to catalog all my lights/lamps/stuff ... but it would just be too much time/work to do.
I do put the year/month of purchase on fluorescent lamps (along with a 'U' if its used)
I think a 'normal' (ie: non-light) person would just view it as "a bunch of junk" anyway.

----------

If I found something like that 2-footer with a mirrored reflector, I very likely woulda taken it, converted to 3-lamp, but also wired it up for overdrive .lol. that would make a good little plantlight
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 09, 2015, 10:30:20 PM
Yeah I saw some of your pics on LG Mike.  Nice score on the GE SP41s!
Did you drive yourself? Since you're getting a car now you can go whenever you want!
Hope you get those M-250A gremlins resolved successfully!
Today I got one of those 90s LOA "Lifelite" PL13 "jar light" type fixtures, with a built in photocell.  Totally plastic and electronic and cheesy but interesting nonetheless, I think LOA sure had some interesting energy-saving, state-of-the-art (for their time; 1990s) products, despite reliability issues.  It runs a standard PL13 lamp (Included) which starts instantly on the electronic ballast.  Photocell appears to be the "fade in, fade out" type though which I can see being an issue with the cheesy electronic ballast (flickers wildly with just enough light to only halfway activate, making it LOOK like it's preheat and EOL), but if those blow I suppose it could be modified to magnetic PL13 easily enough.  I think I'll put it outside eventually actually, it (unlike my 175w MV) will run fine all night on my batteries, being only 13w. 
I took pics and will post them.  I'd like to fit it with a 4100K or 6500K lamp, I think those CFL jar lights look nicer with those cooler color temps.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 09, 2015, 10:52:48 PM
Oh and by the way...
Happy 100 pages of "diarrhea of the keyboard"! (As I personally call this thread). 100 pages of off-topic digressions. 
100 page rewind: Highlights include:
-Scoring fixtures/lamps/ballasts
-relating random stories
-talking about code violations (electrical and otherwise)
-describing the areas in which we live/our respective houses
-other interests we have (mine including: radio, construction, army trucks, etc)
-Bugs! (We've talked about those a LOT!)
-updates on various exciting (to us) things we've had going on
-And many more!


By the way, Mike, I finished the knife block recently and entered it in a local art show today.  It will be on display tomorrow for the public to see.  When it's home I'll take pics for you like you asked.

Also been doing lots of painting lately on the boat.  Epoxy two-part paint SUCKS! (compared to household latex that is).  It dries really fast so you have to keep a wet edge.  My dad and I both paint so well though we don't need masking tape and don't use it! (cutting in very precisely with a brush, etc). 

And Xmaslightguy...you might like this...the last few nights have been really good for AM DXing.  Couldn't sleep last night and finally got an ID for a station I'd been wanting to hear for years now.  (The one that does Indian music, the ID is in English).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on May 10, 2015, 02:11:53 AM
Yeah, bird guards are needed with some fixtures even with 2" arms. My R47 had a plastic bird guard and was mounted on a 2" arm and even that didn't stop a bird from nesting inside lol.

I've done some cataloging of my collection in the list your collection thread. (http://www.galleryoflights.org/mb/index.php?topic=698.msg15129#msg15129) It has some details about my stuff like ballast type, when I got it etc  but is currently limited to my streetlights, HID fixtures and traffic signals.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 10, 2015, 10:23:22 PM
I was given one of those 2000s Lithonia 2X40/34/25w shoplights today, with the laughable "LOA" type ballast.  Only works on one "side".  But a score nonetheless, anything T12 is nowadays!
I have another identical fixture from the same friend's basement this one came from I got about 3 years ago but it works on both sides.
I'll post pics. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on May 12, 2015, 02:36:20 AM
Went shopping at this oddball Home Depot today. It's attached to a mall so I guess they installed a drop ceiling and troffers instead of going with their usual open ceiling and T5 highbays. The troffers are actually louvered ones with two T5s per 4' section but the camera made it look like a lensed troffer lol.  

(http://i.imgur.com/YuyKjHQ.jpg?1) (http://i.imgur.com/YTnWgQf.jpg)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 12, 2015, 09:29:09 AM
Or maybe the space used to be another store before it was HD?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 12, 2015, 03:39:05 PM
Wow very interesting Home Depot! Yeah I'm thinking someone else may have been in the store before HD? Strange seeing an HD with a low ceiling lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: LampLover84 on May 12, 2015, 10:00:32 PM
Wow neat!
I also wonder what was there before Home Depot usually Home Depot is either in its own building or in a strip mall
I have never seen one in a walk around mall before.

Does anyone also notice that walk around malls (The ones where you have to go inside a building and then into the store, I don't know the actual name for them) are pretty much empty and dead space
The one in Trumbull (Westfield Trumbull Shopping park) in my area  alot of the stores are closed and the mall is mostly empty.
The big stores JC Penny, Target, and a few others are pretty much why the mall stays open

The stores I used to go with my parents when I was a kid are now closed

RadioShack, Circuit City, FYE and the ones that are not closed have nothing of interest anymore if it is even still open (Spencer Gifts)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 13, 2015, 06:06:19 AM
A mall with the stores accessed through an indoor hallway is just a regular mall lol. When the stores are all accessed from the outside it's a strip mall. The malls do well around here (Providence Place Mall in Providence RI, Warwick Mall in Warwick RI, and Emerald Square Mall in Attelboro MA). The Rhode Island Mall, which is right next to the Warwick Mall, is not doing well though. In fact, the interior of the mall is closed, with just the anchors remaining: Sears (which is the only original store there, from 1967), WalMart, and Kohls. And Toys R Us, Wendy's, Chuck E. Cheese's, and On the Border Mexican Grille are parking lot add-ons (separate from the main building) and are still open.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on May 13, 2015, 06:59:09 PM
Quote from: GEsoftwhite100watts
And Xmaslightguy...you might like this...the last few nights have been really good for AM DXing.  Couldn't sleep last night and finally got an ID for a station I'd been wanting to hear for years now.  (The one that does Indian music, the ID is in English).
Cool.
One of these days (nights actually .lol. ) I should go through the AM band & see what's here .. atleast for HD channels since those would be stereo :)
Aren't stations in the US required to give their ID in English?


Quote from: joe_347V
Went shopping at this oddball Home Depot today
Interesting. Most of the home Depot's I've seen are their own building.
There is one here that took over part of a small mall .. but they demo'ed that part of the building & put up the HD in its place (now its just a strip mall).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: LampLover84 on May 13, 2015, 09:08:34 PM
OK Mall it is then :) ;D

I don't have an HD Radio yet (it actually stands for Hybrid Digital and not High Definition as one would be lead to believe with all of the marketing hype)
I do have a home radio receiver with the RDS feature though (Denon UDRA-M10) GoodWill find $12. The RDS signal is really fragile though the station has to come in almost crystal clear for the data to be decoded correctly.

When I was a kid I used to love DXing the FM band (too bad RDS did not exist in the US back then, I believe the first RDS receivers where available in the US around 1997-1998)

Now I mostly usually listen to the computer with my "oldies" music Lol! 8) (Late 1970's - until about 2009) There is an occasional new song I will like but to me most of the new music is re-packaged garbage.

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on May 13, 2015, 11:19:30 PM
Nice score on that Denon LampLover84!

HD actually doesn't stand for "Hybrid Digital" or "High Definition" .. its just a brand-name iBiquity made for the technology.

Yep, the RDS is signal is fragile, and the HD signal is even more fragile.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: LampLover84 on May 14, 2015, 06:08:47 PM
Yeah the Denon was a great score but unfortunately I did not get the 3 disc CD changer with it

Also the VFD is very dim almost unreadable in daytime. I do know they wear out but it seems like another problem with it and not normal wear because with the usual wear the segments that are on the most are the dimmest and the whole display is of equal dimness. Does anyone have any insight on how to fix this I found the service manual for a similar model (UDRA-M7) but I don't understand what controls the brightness of the display
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 14, 2015, 09:02:26 PM
BTW guys, remember those three lamp parabolic Lithonia troffers in the hallway in the votech building at my school and how many of the 2006 GE SPX35 lamps are now dead and how I wanted to relamp them? Well, I found out where they keep the lamps in the votech building. It's in a closet marked STORAGE right near the shop. :D ;D Since I have access to free lamps, I'm more than willing to relamp the fixtures if my teacher lets me. I'm thinking he won't but I'll see if I can do some convincing...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on May 14, 2015, 09:50:22 PM
@LampLover84:
Did the unit still have its remote? (seems thrift-store & garage-sale stereo equipment someone has always lost it)

I have one thing (a Yamaha if I remember right) that has a dimming function for the display... and only accessible with the remote.


-----
@Mike:
LOL at the thought of just going & replacing lamps in a building like that...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 15, 2015, 05:58:45 AM
Why LOL? I'm dead serious. :P That part of the hallway is just for our shop and is sectioned off by a set of double doors. It's not like I'm setting a ladder right in the middle of the school lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: LampLover84 on May 15, 2015, 10:23:55 AM
@xmaslightguy
I did not get the remote with the unit either :(
I have JP1 (http://www.hifi-remote.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page) (Well actually JP1.3) and I was able to find all of the codes for all of the functions and there is no dimmer for the display. However on the positive side the unit sounds excellent with a pair of JBL MR25 bookshelf speakers

Here (http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php?action=file&file_id=12863) is the upgrade file I created for the unit with the help of a user on Remote Central. My user name on the Hifi-remote site is 110220volts (Yes I know the actual US voltage is now 120/240)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on May 18, 2015, 07:27:36 PM
@LampLover84:
 Interesting.. I didn't know about those remotes. very cool!

@Mike:
Setting a ladder in the middle of an average school hallway is what I was picturing .lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 20, 2015, 09:53:16 AM
Neat.  Many radio stations in the more rural areas of AK don't do RDS, and I don't own a radio that decodes it anyway but yeah it would've been helpful today in fact with some experiences I had
I notice that too.  Here in Alaska there's a lot of strip malls, with a lot of funny "neighboring" stores.  For example: (Actual things I've seen in actual shopping centers): "Win City Pull Tabs" next to "Alaska State Troopers".  Or a hairstyle place next to a liquor store.  OR an earpiercing place right next to a National Guard recruitment office!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 20, 2015, 10:27:28 AM
Here's a good one I forgot to mention that will get people laughing I think.  I was in a supermarket recently that had all "wrong" lamps it seemed. 
The main retail part of the store was lit by 4XF32T8 troffers in a regular 2X4 grid ceiling.  But they all had either 3000K or 65000K lamps! In no particular order either.  When you first went in the store all the lights in that immediate area were daylight but the further in you went the more were warm white.  Some had mixed lamps.  I took some pics of it (albeit with a cellphone camera) and the rest of the group I was with was cracking up at me "taking pictures of the lights". So as you walked around the lights went orange-blue-orange-blue-orange-blue.  It was hilarious! I think originally they were going to do all daylight then ran short of lamps and spot-relamped randomly.  The customer service counter at the front was all daylight and the meat department, etc. was all warm white though.
The "mercantile" section of the store, another space next to them in the shopping center they'd expanded into, was lit with these Lithonia? suspended wraparounds in rows.  But they all appeared to have T8 lamps on T12 ballasts! Some daylight, some cool white.  They all had this disgusting "shimmer" to them so as you walked up and down the aisles you got all sorts of stroboscopic effects.  With hundreds of fixtures though it wasn't as bad as in the restroom areas where a single fixture was absolutely horrible with that flicker.
All the lamps looked to have been there awhile (they had blackening on the ends) and suprisingly no bad ballasts!
The stockrooms were lit with 2XF96 Lithonia strips, which mostly had none other than GE F96T12/SP65! Same for many other smaller stores in the same strip mall.  Kinda neat but weird seeing daylight lamps in commercial spaces!
Same foe a nearby True Value hardware store: GE F96T12/SP65. Worn ones spot-replaced with GE 4100K Starcoat 60w energy savers which look like ugly CWX or peachy by comparison.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 20, 2015, 03:14:26 PM
Well my teacher said I can't fix the lights. A couple more lamps have died, leaving two full fixtures out, one with one lamp working, one with two lamps working, and two with all three working. The main secretary is going to be out until next Thursday or something IIRC so whenever she gets back I'll let her know that a custodian needs to visit the downstairs votech hallway and do some serious relamping. Since my teacher won't let me do it, I'm just going to report the lights to the secretary, who will make sure that the custodians fix the lights, since they don't do anything unless they're specifically told to lol.

Still haven't heard back from Parks & Recreation about the lights at Rocky Point Park so if I don't hear back in a week, I'll shoot them the same email again. If I harass their inbox enough times they'll probably get back to me.

That horrible flicker could be from energy-saving T8s. They have a dingy color and flicker just like their F34T12 counterparts. I hate ES lamps in general. I'd rather see LBF ballasts and full wattage lamps used than NBF ballasts and ES lamps (ideally I want full wattage lamps with HBF ballasts lol). The mismatched color tubes are most likely from spot relamping. Not funny so much as it's just annoying, especially with polar opposite colors. If it was just one color different like 3500/4100K or 4100/5000K or 5000/6500K then it wouldn't be as annoying but still annoying enough.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 21, 2015, 09:24:13 AM
Yeah there's always liability issues, etc.  Not only have I done relamping at mine, but I've also gotten fixtures removed from there with PCB ballasts too.  (That I myself helped take down, with the power on). 
If it weren't for that I wouldn't have much of my 4' lamp stash actually.  All used-but-working lamps, I don't have any NOS lamps anywhere that I know of. 
Nice, still trying on those? I thought they demolished everything and anything on that property like over a year ago? But keep trying!
These didn't have a dingy color and I know some of them were 32w (could see etches) but T8s on T12 ballasts do that flicker thing, like a really fast "rectifying".  I actually liked how you walk in there and the first thing you see is the front of the store lit with all daylight lamps but I would've relamped evenly, at least moving the other color to the back of the store since the lamps still work.  But hey, what do I know? I've been known to mismatch lamps/colors/ballasts/types many times myself. 
Cool white and daylight wasn't too bad but yeah the main part of the store was amusing to say the least.  As you walk down an aisle things go blue-orange-blue-orange.  I know the 3000K lamps were energy savers though as I saw some striating in an exposed 2-lamp strip in the meat department.  (GE Ecolux Watt-Misers).
A school nearby (Well nearby being an hour's drive away but there's Alaska for you) also is lit with a random 50/50-ish mix of cool white and warm white GE Watt-Miser F34s in every post-EPACT generation ('95 to current).  Also a few Philips-made generic 34w lamps in there and a few 1988 (so original!) Philips Econ-O-Watt cool whites, one of which I saw go EOL (Not the actual failure but everything leading up to it and the aftermath; it was weird; the phosphor disappeared on one part of the end then it blackened like normal then died).  All in Metalux 34" eggcrate troffers which I both like and despise at the same time.
And in the gym closets/stage/library "dungeon" there's some turrets with Sylvania-GTE "Desginer 3500K" for original, spot-replaced with the same random Watt-Misers.  The library "Dungeon" did also have some really early-on post-EPACT GE-made True Value brand 34w lamps though.  The woodshop had these 3-lamp turrets with the same random mix of Watt-Miser lamps.  So here again, the classic random mix of colors/ages, which I actually do find kinda neat even though it can be irritating at the same time. All the fixtures there have that classic buzz to them too, a rare sight nowadays in a full-scale school building!
I don't hate energy saver lamps (Well except the 60w F96T12 slimline ones, those are the worst) but I dislike when they're used in inappropriate applications, for example on ballasts not rated for them and/or that predate them, like tulamp preheat ballasts or old rapid start ballasts, or in inherently chilly places where they'll never warm up.  I have a few LPF residential RS ballasts that seriously run the 34w lamps better so I intentionally use them there and would even BUY new 34w lamps for.  I've never really been around the 25w "shoplite" lamps enough to be familiar with them though, though the labeling gimmicks on those things crack me up! I guess it means I can use them in my 1970s Sears shoplights with HPF ballasts?Or that I can use them in any fixture in my garage, regardless? Or Sylvania's "Economy" 25w..."Do not use on ballasts marked (E)...does that mean that I can safely use them on my HPF ballasts that predate EPACT? Or that I can only use them to directly replace F40CW lamps in shoplight fixtures but can't if I had warm white or daylight lamps in there? (Insert sarcastic voice).  Another one is the "For Commercial Use Only" on GE Watt-Miser lamps...does that mean I can't use them in my house? But I have ballasts rated for them that work best with them, and they're "residential use only".  Anyhow the labeling gimmicks have always never ceased to amuse me.
I dislike reduced-output ballasts, even though I have several in use.  I've never determined if my 1984 Universal HPF with .65a line current is actually reduced-output but it seems maybe a little dimmer upon startup in the cold garage.  Still warms up to be pretty bright though. 
Ever notice HPF RS ballasts give this "rectifying" like flicker when cold, with 40w lamps? Especially noticeable with wide-spectrum grow-lux or /950 lamps (both of which are inherently rather flickery on magnetic ballasts since the phosphor afterglow isn't as "persistent".
Just curious Mike, any updates on getting your car yet? I know you'd said it needed some work but was more or less turn-key. 
I got the driver manual book a few weeks ago now and have studied it somewhat, though not a whole lot.  The way they word them (at least the Alaska one) is hilarious though, there's some informal "instruction manual humor" in there.
And you might find this amusing: turns out a friend and classmate in an Algebra II (AKA really difficult) class I'm currently in turns out to have a Deuce that was his late father's.  We both agreed there's that "unique" factor in owning one and the practical side of one too (case in point, you can fit a LOT of firewood in the back of one).  We also both agreed it's hilarious to imagine trying to get a parking sticker for one in a university parking lot LOL. (I really did look at the size of parking spaces at the campuses I've toured LOL).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 21, 2015, 05:00:42 PM
Well, he decided to let me relamp the lights! Used seven lamps total (six for the troffers and one for the safety light, which had a dead tube all year lol). I kept all the remaining working GE SPX35s in service, even though I'm sure they'll continue to keep burning out. I didn't mix color temps either. Some fixtures are all SPX35 and others are all /741. I relamped the troffers with the power on since there's no switches for them that we are aware of. The sockets are those rotary-lock sockets with the black plastic collar that rotates with the lamp. Most people dislike those but I actually like them just for this reason; the lamps can be changed with absolutely no change of a live pin touching the fixture body. No bad ballasts and no dud lamps either. Everything works great on the first try. These troffers finally got their first lamp change. 8)

They did demolish everything except for a select few things. They didn't go through the woods though, so there's all sorts of stuff back there. The woods used to be a "natural area" with paths and benches under a tree canopy. Those lights were installed for area lighting I guess. They decided to leave that area as natural woods I guess, or they've at least not gotten around to ripping the stuff out. They will probably leave the trees alone though. If anything they'll saw the arms off the pole (since the mounting plates are buried under the tree bark since the trees just keep growing over stuff like that) and clean up the non-nature stuff to give the area a more natural appearance.

My grandpa has a HPF Advance 0.73A F40/RS ballast in one of his basement wrap lights with two GE pre-ecolux 25W F40T12s. I don't like reduced output magnetic ballasts. They should all be 1.0BF IMO. For electronics I don't mind since it's easier to match light levels but yeah, to be honest I wish all ballasts were just 1.0BF.

No, never noticed the flicker. Magnetic ballasts have a slight flicker all the time and those /950s flicker like 34W lamps anyway. Nope, no updates on the car. I got to drive it on the street and through the park near their house. A nice ride. He discovered the brakes need fixing. The AC needs to be charged and I'm thinking I might eventually upgrade the sound system since it kinda sucks. It might just be the settings it on though. Once I get the car I'll have to play around with the settings to get it how I want it.

Ah so you've met another person with a Deuce eh? ;D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 21, 2015, 07:23:33 PM
Nice...did you use your own lamps or some others already there? Nice that you kept everything somewhat consistent, unlike that one grocery store I was describing.
Black plastic collar? The ones I see are green.  But whatever, same concept.
Nice, good luck on getting any remaining fixtures.
.73A Advance...sounds like a Mark III...which FYI is full power more or less in terms of lamp output, at least according to Trent (Member themaritimeman on LG).
Nah /950s are still way better than 34w lamps most of the time, but yes they're inherently dim and flickery.  In the 90s and 00s after EPACT it seems many commercial installations went with /950 or F34CWs, both dimmer than the F40CWs they usually replaced.  One thing I like about the July 2012 regs is that full wattage lamps seem to be regaining popularity, which I like seeing. 
But some "bright" colors are still banned now anyway.  For example, take GE F96T12/SP65.  Nice 6500K daylight with a CRI in the 70s range, not too blue, a nice bright cool color overall.  Closest now is daylight deluxe I believe, which is inherently dim and flickery.  Like I said, I was in a True Value hardware store a few days ago lit with said lamps and it was a really pleasant store to shop in for a daylight  full wattage F96 lover like me.  The spot replacements of 4100k Starcoat 60w lamps looked awful by comparison. I'd like to find a case of SP65s NOS...so add that to the "wanted lighting" list is what I'll do LOL.
Did you learn to drive in a church parking lot originally? That's where I was going to learn but it didn't happen.
Yeah, pretty much.  Small world.  We actually know a lot about a lot of the same things, though fluorescent lights is not one of his.  We got into a discussion about the best species of wood for firewood though (Woodstove burning people LOL).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 22, 2015, 06:07:49 AM
I used the case that was in the boiler room. 12 lamps that remained in the case of whatever amount. I used seven so there's 5 lamps left. They were Sylvania Octron F32T8/741s. Full-wattage. Just like what the main building uses in the wrap lights. So yeah, the three fixtures with the emergency lamp in the center run /741s (except the normally-off emergency lamps, which I kept SPX35 since they all work, but the fixture lights up /741 normally). The three normal fixtures with all three lamps lit are still SPX35. I just moved an SPX35 from one fixture to another to keep it all uniform. I'f I was pressed for time I would have just replaced all the outlier lamps so the fixture would be /741...

Yep, most are black. I've seen some green and even some white ones out there but 90% of them out there are actually black. Usually the cheaper residential fixtures use green ones. No didn't go to  a church. My school parking lot is where I first drove before I got my permit.

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 22, 2015, 11:15:00 AM
Case was probably 32 lamps originally.  But cool!
I was going to learn in the big church parking lot but it never happened.  I know of a high school/college though that has a HUGE, open parking lot and I've seen them do police/state trooper tests in there...traffic cones all randomly placed and driving through them chasing another car at pretty high speed.  Watching from a distance you're like "There goes the first cone!". I bet they do drivers' ed there too.
This summer I need to go into a DMV anyway to renew my ID so I think I'll try the written driving test while in there. I discovered I've been to towns twice now with an expired ID...scary! When/if (people think I'll be a horrible driver) I successfully obtain my license I think I'm going to try to go for a CDL too. (Commercial Driver's License).  Just a good certification to have in hand, it opens up many more jobs. Same with a 100ton captain's license...something I'm also going for.  The guy I'll work with over the summer just got his 100ton and also wants to go for a CDL...we have multiple things in common I guess. 
The rules/regs aren't as comprehensive/easy to understand as they could be though IMO.  The one I've never been able to TRULY figure out (yet) is if a CDL is needed in AK for a Deuce, being 3-axle and air-assist brakes.  My understanding so far is no, they fall under the weight limit, and lacking totally-air brakes they're OK as long as you're not for hire. BUT the 5-ton version would require one from what I understand: air brakes, etc.


Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 22, 2015, 03:18:41 PM
I relamped the rest of the fixtures (in the shop) that were out and turns out the box was a case of 30. I took pics and posted them on LG.

Yeah it's a good idea to get any licenses you might need in the future. Keeps all the doors open for you.

I had my physical exam and Electric Boat today. I start my 8-week apprenticeship/internship on June 30th.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 22, 2015, 04:02:20 PM
Awesome! Are you going home every night or staying on one of the bases/installations 24/6?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 22, 2015, 09:51:41 PM
It's like any other job. I'm not living there lol. 6:25AM to 3:30PM Monday through Friday. 40 hours a week, $14.14 an hour base pay.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 22, 2015, 11:59:05 PM
That's a little early for me LOL.  But at least you get the afternoons off! How far is your commute? Will you have your car up and running by then? I'd think that would make it a lot easier to commute.
I think that's a pretty neat job though! I know a little bit about marine electrical but nowhere as much as you probably will by the end of this job.
One thing that's always confused me is the whole neutral-to-ground bonding thing on boats.  I've had multiple (marine and land-based electricians explain it to me but it goes right over my head. Same with 3-phase. I know how to join wires and know a decent amount about the electrical characteristics of many lamps/ballasts but not how the electricity "flows to ground".
One issue that's always perplexed me is the whole neutral-to-ground switching thing on boats.  Years ago my dad had an inverter on his boat where that was somehow messed up.  Here's how it basically works: It converts 12vDC from a battery bank into usable 120vAC, albeit in a "modified sine wave" which can sometimes cause issues and fry certain things...there's always the claim that you can't run a fluorescent light on MSW but I've been doing that for years now with everything from spiral CFLs all the way up to an 8ft slimline without any trouble whatsoever, though ballasts often are noisier than on "regular" power. 
Anyhow, if running from batteries, that's how it converts the power.  But when power is applied from an external AC source, for example a generator or plugging the unit into grid/city power, the unit switches functions and transfers the AC loads powered off the inverter to the incoming AC power and also the unit then charges the batteries.  The transition between power sources is noticeable by either the unit making a "click" (transfer switch relay), a little "flicker" in the power output (enough that most digital clocks don't go to flashing 12:00 mode but enough that a HID lamp (in my case 400w MH or 175w MV) will go out and restrike, or sometimes even preheat fluorescents will go out and restart) or a change in the sound of a ballast/electric motor (they sound different on the MSW inverter output than they do on "normal" power) or a change in the brightness of lights (usually the inverter output/voltage is slightly "dimmer", especially with LPF rapid start fluorescents and incandescent lamps). The switchover from incoming AC to inverter is usually slightly longer than the inverter to AC switch is.  (The latter usually isn't long enough to make a preheat florescent freak out but an HID lamp will go out and restrike).
Anyhow, the grounding issue (from what I understand) is this: The neutral/ground thing on boats (where this was designed to be used) is weird or whatever (I don't understand it) but when plugged into utility power the unit switches to the neutral (or ground if the marina/harbor is grounded, no idea if they are) the unit switches to that or something...anyhow there's also a way to disable the unit from doing this (I think the Canadian code prohibits it actually).  Anyhow somehow there was an electrical "leak" somewhere.  Also I'll mention here that on boats you have pieces of zinc under the waterline since there's electrolysis from the saltwater, dissimilar metals, etc...they're sacrificial and are "eaten" first...anyhow he was going through zincs at a crazy rate and we finally traced it to the inverter/charger, tried disconnecting it, and everything stopped.(The boat caught fish better, the electrolysis thing applies somehow there), the zincs lasted a lot longer, etc).  Anyhow that same inverter now powers my house, where electrolysis and ground leakages aren't an issue, being that the neutral/ground are bonded in my breaker box and connected to the grounding stake of my house. 
Another thing: for whatever reason you're not supposed to use a regular car battery charger on a boat in a marina, you'll cook everyone's zincs (for whatever reason). 

Did that explanation make ANY sense? LOL.

Oh and remember the story I related some time ago about actually riding in a Deuce about 3 years ago now? Well today I was talking with that person and we were remembering that LOL.  I was mentioning how in the space of the last month (2 1-week stints) I've gone probably at least 1000 mils in a car...I've spent entire YEARS with FAR less time in a car.  The "Cars are overrated" comment of course came up LOL. Then I had to mention "Yeah, well I HAVE been driving in Port Alexander".  Annoying thing is, I thought nothing of that experience at the time, then a few years later I develop an interest in owning a Deuce.  Ha..irony always comes back to bite me in the butt LOL.

Oh and I was describing this thread to someone recently...don't even remember who but I do remember mentioning that my personal name for the thread is not "The Off Topic, Topic" but is instead "Diarrhea of the Keyboard". (Now over 100 pages of it but I still love this thread, posting in it almost every day, often multiple times a day. )
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 23, 2015, 10:59:16 AM
Yeah I'm not a morning person either but I'll just have to get used to it I guess. Commute is about 20 minutes. I hope I have the car by then... I don't know much about marine electrical either, other than stranded wire being required lol. I didn't know about the zinc strips or anything like that. It's all interesting stuff!

Yeah i like this topic too. This topic is more of a forum itself lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 24, 2015, 10:58:43 AM
Yeah that's not too bad, I know people who drive an hour each way every day, but with no traffic either.

So today I had to refasten a couple Lithonia 4' vaportight fixtures that had started to fall out of the semi-rotted wood above them in the engine room on the boat.  Boy was that a PITA.  The disassembly was pretty easy both times though.  I removed lamps (Sylvania /765 Octron!) from one with the power on and when I took out one lamp the remaining one dim-glowed JUST like a F40/RS fixture would until I took it out! The fixtures themselves have a bit of a story, despite being from 2011-2012-ish they had all their electrical guts replaced after being underwater for a week, by an electrician that actually grew up in my current house I'm typing this in! The "keeper" 1/4 turn thingies were long gone (Picture a standard run-of-the-mill-made-like-this-for-decades Lithonia striplight and channel cover, you know exactly what to picture) so he had used little square-drive sheet-metal screws instead, pretty clever! (He did this on most of them). Ballast turned out to be a typical run-of-the-mill-120/277v Advance(d failure rate) as far as I could tell in a dimly lit space, crouching in a place with no headroom though.  Weird, never seen one light only one lamp like that before though. Now did I mention I was doing all this with the power on (other fixtures).  So I rescrewed it with some 1-1/2" hex roofing screws.  Then it was time to reattach the channel cover.  The fixtures are so cheap the striplight body has bent a bit, making refastening the channel cover a PITA, it wouldn't fit over the sides of the channel properly.  I ended up fudging it and shoving it up over on the "tab" side and screwing it on the other side.  Then in went the lamps and it was back together. 

Then time for the other one.  This light is a single-lamp unit actually! This one was found by my dad for 10 bucks at a really good junk store in Seward, AK, in 2013, which has unfortunately since burned down.  It originally had a 277v ballast, which I had to replace with a 120v unit.  Back in July of 2013 I went to Spenard Builders' Supply in Sitka, AK and bought a 2-lamp (but wires up for one lamp like the magnetic ones) Advance(d failure rate) 120-277v unit.  In it went.  (In the dark with a flashlight, with no headroom, and banging into other pipes, etc...it was a fun job). Then I made the wonderful discovery that I had to buy new sockets since the originals were those stupid shunted ones.  So rather than buy a new ballast I went to True Value (a couple weeks later I might add, this simple project took literally a month to complete in 2013) and bought some really nice, tall "tombstone" y-slot lampholders (I think Pass & Seymour or Leviton, don't remember). They're obviously intended for a striplight, and were even so nice they had screw terminals instead of push-ins.  I ended up canibalizing them somehow (don't remember how anymore but it was removing and throwing away some little piece, totally fudging it).  At least they fit the lampholder brackets of the striplight they were going in, albeit almost too far apart (lamp actually did fall out once). Of course, being one of those stupid replacement ballasts, the wires were all short and had to be spliced/unused ones capped off. When I took it apart again today, almost two years later, I was impressed at how nice my wiring job actually was...I thought I had done much worse. 

When reinstalling the channel cover in 2013 after finally getting it wired up, I lost the little "keeper" thing.  So I used a bunch of zip ties to hold the channel cover in place (between the hole and the slots in the sides of the strip for the lampholder brackets). Hack job but it worked for almost two years just fine.  Lamp I bought at the same time as the ballast was a "Buyer's Choice" (Sylvania) F40CWX.

Anyhow, I took it apart again today.  Trying to take the lamp out of the stupid Y-slot sockets with power on resulted in a nice high-pitched sizzling making me run for the light switch to turn it off! I got it shut off before any major damage happened, though the lamp pins and part of the socket have some arc marks.  Got the lamp out but got to sniff the wonderful burnt-electrical smell for awhile. 
Rescrewing it was tricky too, most of the original holes were used up so I had to "drill" my own using the screw gun and the screw. 

Instead of zip-tying the channel cover I used some 1/2" hex roofing screws instead this time, inspired by the other fixtures.  Lamp I used this time was a Sylvania Octron F32T8/741, since it was laying around and I've since heard T8s are fine on electronic T12 ballasts.  But after sitting in storage for two years the lamp was really mercury starved at first: only a few inches at each end even lit up 4100K and not pink.  Took a good 20 minutes to fully warm up.  Sure a lot brighter than the F40CWX it replaced though, which I've since brought home with me.  I'll post a pic of it later.

Later, at someone's house, I got to discussing lighting.  I might be getting a Westy F40CW blackender and a Sylvania F40WW Lifeline from there! Also I'm getting a nice old wood cookstove from him, that's going in my kitchen this winter! Trading it for a diesel-burning one from my honorary grandfather's house that's been sitting in my garage for over a year now under a tarp, it's time it got a good home in exchange for a wood one! (That I'll actually install, too!). 

I got some plumbing education in the process too.  If you have coils or a water jacket in a stove for heating domestic water your plumbing must be fairly straight so no air bubbles can be trapped, otherwise you've literally got a pipe bomb LOL.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 24, 2015, 05:54:43 PM
Yeah it's a short drive (you can't drive too far in Rhode Island or else you find yourself in Massachusetts or Connecticut (or at the Atlantic Ocean lol).

Ah yeah those modern lights are a real piece of crap. They crumble under their own weight it's just ridiculous. I could totally picture in my mind what you were going through trying to relocate them and then put them back together- WITH THE POWER ON? Wow I would have just chickened out and turned the power off. If you needed the light from other fixtures I would have still shut the power off, disconnected the light being moved, and then turned the power back on after I wrapped the supply leads in tape. I'm too much of a chicken to work with the power on lol. I relamped the hallway troffers at school with the power on but it was because I had no choice and the sockets were the rotary-lock ones so it was fool-proof. You just have to turn the lamps fast so the contacts don't arc lol.

Ah yeah don't you hate it when you go to change a ballast and it turns into a big project? When I retrofitted my great-aunt's strips in the garage to T8s that was a big hack job. The two lamp one was fairly easy since it was instant start and used a standard sized ballast, though the sockets didn't want to let go of the leads. I was not about to cut the leads either since it's a nice Therm-O-Matic-x ballast from 1980 so I just snipped the leads right where they entered the socket and shoved the new Accupro (relabeled as McCann Lighting, hehehe) and it worked. Then I lost the little nuts that sit inside the sockets, since they were bolt-on sockets (though with the stab-in lead connections) so I just left them loose lol. So you can lift up the lamps on one end lol.

With the single lamp strip, i used a programmed start Advance PL ballast, which is a non-standard size to fit in a smaller PL fixture. Anyway, I didn't have a tool to drill a hole so that ballast simply got installed with one screw where the original NPF ballast was mounted lol. The fixtures both used two screws instead of a slide-in tab and a screw on like some fixtures. Anyway, these sockets gave me issues too but I ended up just cutting the ballast leads on this one since it was just a crappy NPF ballast (still though, I only cut them enough to allow me to splice). And the Advance PL ballasts do not come with leads. They have stab-in terminals on the side for all the connections so I used a bunch of odds and ends of wires to wire the ballast up, using an entire rainbow of wire colors on the same string of wire lol. The fixtures work, nonetheless. Not a retrofit job I'd show off though lol. I'm much better at taking the fixtures home and retrofitting them there since I have all my tools and extra materials to jury-rig something if it doesn't work out.

With the bathroom light in my grandpa's shop, I had bought those two 1977 F40/RS shoplights and converted his to F32T8/IS with the Advance ballast and bought a couple F32T8/735 lamps for it and completely wired it at home, cord and all (no plug though) and put a suspension chain on it. So all I had to do when I got there was take the lamps out of the old lights, brush 3/4" of black autobody shop dust off it, unplug it, snip the chains, and take it down. Then I took the plug off the old light and wired it onto the new light's cord. (old plug was ungrounded and plugged into an ungrounded socket (one of those lamp socket outlet adapters) so I just snipped the ground wire on the cord of the new light flush to the outer jacket on the cord lol. Technically the thing should be grounded since the chains are connected to the EMT that feeds the light but that doesn't count with code; the ground wire has to be connected to the box and you have to use a special EMT/work box connector for that to fly with code.

In my great-aunt's basement I used the other of the two 1977 F40/RS shoplights, converting this one to T8 as well. This one was hardmounted in the basement though and hardwired as well. Her basement is MUCH brighter now with the F32T8 shoplight instead of the two WE lights, which were mounted between two joists so the joists confined the light produced to a small area. The F32T8 I mounted perpendicular to the joists so the joists didn't block the light and allowed it to spread to the whole basement at the cost of it being a little lower down. In her fixture I used a LBF Sylvania ballast. Surprisingly, the LBF ballast is plenty of light down there and should last a long time since Sylvania is good stuff. That fixture in the basement as well as the two retrofitted strips in the garage have 2006 GE SPX35s from my school and they're all working too she said. The single lamp strip is PS and the two 2-lamp fixtures are IS.

Ooo good luck with the F40s! Sounds like some nice lamps. It seems here, vintage F40 tubes always seem to be Westys or Sylvanias. I don't see too many old GE F40s here. Anyway, my grandpa said the bathroom light still works as of now, so at least one tube and the ballast are still good lol. If one tube burnt out or went starved he probably wouldn't notice lol. Like with his troffers in his office. He had no idea that two of the three only had two of the four tubes working. At home, they only get fixed because my grandma catches them and tells him to fix them lol. The slimlines in the garage part of the shop tend to be left dead too until I come to fix them. He only fixes the ones in the spray booth since he can't have any shadows in there or he might not spray the cars the right way and mess up the paint job. It needs to be very bright in there. The spray room is the only room at the shop where I've never seen a dead lamp lol. Any time I've been there the troffers and a couple slimlines in the garage portion of the shop have needed relamping. The preheater in the bathroom had a dead tube for years but fortunately the start never stuck since it still works. The fixture actually still has the original starters IIRC. I never changed them since they still worked. The tubes that were in the light were GE SP41s, full mercury. One was dead like I said. I stuck the working one in one of the troffers and stuck two new Philips F40T12/NATURAL LIGHT lamps (their DESIGN50 lamp) in the fixture so I could get a pair of them to try out lol. I still have them in the collection to keep. I've stocked up on a good number of 5000K lamps. Six GE CX50s (or whatever their 80-ish CRI 5000K lamp is called), a case of ten Sylvania DESIGN50s, and two of those Philips 5000K tubes.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 25, 2015, 11:19:15 AM
LOL in Alaska it's easy to find yourself having driven 1000+ miles in a week's normal driving, unless you live someplace like Sitka or Juneau, on an island. Since the state is huge and spread out population-wise you find yourself driving for 45 minutes to an hour easily in some places for your daily commute, or to go shopping, etc.  Lots of twisty 2-lane highways in AK too, but in the larger cities (Anchorage, Fairbanks, Juneau, etc.) there's plenty of actual freeway too.

Well there were other people down there too I might add so that wasn't an option. These fixtures have standard Donut-style tombstone lampholders, installed by the electrician who grew up in my current house.  He did a really nice job, he should come redo all his dad's hack jobs, as well as mine.
I really hate that, well actually changing out ballasts period LOL.  
Here they always seem to be GEs! I wonder if it's a regional thing somehow?
I thought you didn't like /950s? Well you sure have a bunch of them LOL.  
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 25, 2015, 11:42:05 AM
Ah yeah that's too much driving for me. I enjoy driving but I just want to "get there and back" and not make something as simple as going to work or going to the store and all-day ordeal. And not to mention it means more gas, more frequent oil changes and other maintenance. In RI you're never more than a stone's throw from a village or something where there's a store.

I know here Lowe's seems to lean more towards Sylvania and so does Benny's, a local hardware store chain. Home Depot is all Philips. I don't know how long Lowes and HD have been around here. I think they may have started out here in the 90s. Before that it was smaller places like Benny's, TrueValue, Ace, etc. Maybe the hardware stores around here just happened to sell more Westinghouse and Sylvania tubes here.

When I bought the case of DESIGN50s I didn't know they were flickery. I liked the color so I bought a case. I do prefer the /850s much more. Brighter and not flickery and the CRI seems just as good IMO. I like the GEs I have better. The case of Sylvanias cost me around $45 with tax and everything. Pretty steep. The CWX are about $25 and daylight deluxe around $35 (all Sylvania and all 10-packs and all at Lowe's).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 25, 2015, 12:01:33 PM
Yeah I can still sympathize but don't mind driving.  (Granted, I don't actually drive yet).  I discovered my state ID is expired so when I next get to a town and go to the DMV I think I'll try the written driving test and see if I can get my learner's permit.  I'm told the lady who does the road tests in Sitka is a real stickler though, according to a couple friends who already have their licenses.

Yeah it does mean more gas/oil changes though.  One of my "justifications" for owning a Deuce someday is that they're multifuel and you can burn 50% diesel, 50% used motor oil, the latter of which I have great access to and can get for more or less free.  Therefore getting rid of the "good luck with the gas mileage!" factor, getting it hopefully down to about that of any other small car in terms of "pain at the pump" LOL.

True Value and Ace are usually all GE. Here Spenard Builders' Supply, an Alaska home-improvement chain/lumberyard, sells, Sylvania and Sacto.  From what the other Alaska member on here, Icefoglights, has told me, they used to sell GE and Duro-Test.  (They even had Vita-Lite PowerTwist lamps back in the day apparently; I bet mine came from Spenard's).

Yeah the D50s are expensive, they're like $12 for a 2-pack at Spenard's in Sitka, vs. like 3.49 for a pair of F40CWX LOL. 

How are the Philips ones you got in the preheater in terms of flicker and color/brightness?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 25, 2015, 01:27:55 PM
Out of interest, I saw a deuce yesterday. 8) It was refurbished (new green paint on it). Basically a giant army pick-up truck lol.

Never seen a Powergroove or PowerTwist lamp in person. Only standard round tube lamps.

I've yet to see Sylvania 5000K lamps offered in two-packs. Only seen 'em sold by the case. The Philips ones seem comparable to the Sylvania ones. The Philips ones seem more dull/gray in appearance while the Sylvanias are more of a bluer color IIRC. It's been a long time since I've lit any of my 5000K lamps so I don't really remember too well. They are dim and flickery like the DESIGN50 tubes though. My grandpa has a Philips 5000K F96T12 in use and it's around the brightness of a Sylvania CWX 60W F96T12. Pretty pathetic lol. I left it in though since it's a 5000K full-mercury Philips with the shield logo.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 25, 2015, 05:05:15 PM
That's the most apt description I've heard yet!  Kind of like the type of boat I work on described as "a wet Cardboard box". Where'd you see it, stuck behind it at a red light?

I've only seen the ones I have.  Never seen a PowerGroove that I can think of in person.

Really? The 2-packs are called "Daylight Full Spectrum" but are Design 50s in disguise.  (I know, I have a Daylight Full Spectrum as the center lamp in a troffer with a pair of Design 50s for the outboard lamps, and they're identical when lit. 

I notice Sylvania Design 50 is usually rather blue-green, compared to the pinkish-purplish of GE Chroma 50 by comparison.  I swear, the D50 is brighter too but also my C50s are well-worn, one of them used almost daily except summers since the early 1990s!

I'd like to see the Philips "C50 Supreme" (post-2012) lit in person.  It's non-Alto too I think.  Maybe the "Natural light" is those...were they silver-ended/non-Alto?

And WHY are the 3500K and 5000K Philips non-Alto when nothing else is? I don't get it!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 25, 2015, 07:21:47 PM
Yep it was at a red light in US 1. I was in the car with my grandpa. I helped them open up their pool yesterday and the weight of the snow broke one of the plastic brackets so we had to go to MA to get a new one.

Yeah I've never seen "Daylight Full Spectrum" Sylvania lamps here. Well, I tried the Philips 5000K lamps today. They're actually not flickery at all on my 1973 F40/RS shoplight. Remember, I have CX50s, not C50s. The CX50s are the 2900 lumen 87 CRI version of the Chroma 50. The CX50s are rather blue-green too. I don't have any Chroma 50s. Yes, the Philips Natural Light lamps  are silver-ended and not labeled as Altos. I'm sure they're probably still reduced mercury. I'm puzzled why they're not labeled as Altos but whatever...Maybe the 5000K phosphors absorb more mercury than other colors so they had to make it with more mercury? The GEs are Ecoluxes but EcoLuxes have a lot more mercury than Altos. EcoLuxes actually don't have much less mercury than full-mercury lamps.

Ah the 3500K lamps aren't Altos either? I have a non-Alto 3500K F20T12 but I never thought anything of it until you mentioned it lol. I've never seen 3500K Philips F40T12s so I didn't know they were full-mercury. (EDIT: the /835 F40T12s are indeed Altos.  See here.  (http://www.homedepot.com/p/Philips-4-ft-T12-40-Watt-Neutral-Deluxe-3500K-Alto-Linear-Fluorescent-Light-Bulb-10-Pack-422725/203466575) )
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 25, 2015, 09:06:54 PM
So with RI being such a small state I imagine you leave the state quite often, going other places? LOL I haven't left Alaska in over a year now (Since January 2014) but that's partially since it is such a big state...I've travelled a bit but haven't actually left.

Nice, how are they in terms of BRIGHTNESS? (For me that's more important than "flicker". ). I'm not even sure a F40C50 is made anymore by GE, I wonder if it's now 867CRI 2900 lumen CX50? I'm wondering if it was originally too dim to pass the bans in July of 2012.  Regardless, I'd be interested to find some.

Another thing I want to build a collection of is 6500K linear lamps.  I don't own any yet, at home anyway.  (Not counting some /765 Octrons in use on the boat, but those are a nice color but a little "dull", especially behind vaportight fixtures.

Philips Alto Daylight Deluxe seems dim from the ones I see in use.  GE and Sylvania Daylight Deluxe seem brighter.  One time I saw a gas station convenience mart lit with like 50% /DX F40 Ecoluxes, and the other half with Westpointe (GE) 34CWs. (Now replaced by LEDs I might add).  And if it makes you laugh, it was/is LESS than a city block from the supermarket with the random hilarious mix of 3000K and 6500K. 

Another one I like is GE SP65, albeit a now-banned color.  I still see lots of F96T12/SP65s (Black etch) in use in the same area as the two aforementioned stores, there's a True Value lit almost entirely by them and it's very pleasant shopping there IMO. But even there there's 60w 4100K Starcoat lamps taking over.  So yes, as you walk around the lights go white-blue-white-blue LOL.  But I think that adds character!

I took pics of the supermarket and the True Value's lights too, albeit with my cell phone.  It's camera also makes a REALLY, unnecessarily LOUD "camera shutter" sound too, which is kinda annoying when trying to discreetly take pics of lights in a public place, like down a deserted aisle in a rambline True Value in a building built at umpteen different times...I get weird looks.  My friends cracked up though at me "taking pictures of the multicolored lights". (their words).

But overall GE SP65 is a nice daylight lamp.  Blue but bright, and not too "flickery" either.

And yeah, overall the GE Ecolux lamps seem the best of the modern low-mercury lamps.  The Watt-Miser versions even develop cool banding and blue mercury glowing at the ends, kinda like the pre-1992-ish lamps do.

I checked out the HD link...29 bucks? I hope that's for a 10 pack or something.  88 CRI seems good but I was surprised by the lumens...3500K is usually a really "bright" color.




Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 26, 2015, 02:36:48 PM
No I actually only leave Rhode Island to visit my cousins or go to my grandpa's shop, and both are only ten minutes into Massachusetts. The only exception would be when we go on vacations or day trips. We never go into Connecticut (eastern Connecticut is all rural small towns anyway so there's no reason to go there lol).

I don't know if the C50s are still made. I love the CX50s though. They're bright and the color is awesome and they're not flickery. Brightness is important but flickering is also important too. Flickering light is very annoying. Fortunately the Philips NATURAL LIGHT tubes don't seem to flicker. The lumens aren't that great. The rating on the box is 2600. Better than CWX but still kinda dim. The GE CX50s are 2900 lumens. Both are better than the Sylvania Design 50s, which get only 2200 lumens, same as CWX.

I own a couple daylight lamps. Two Sylvania F14T12/Ds, one 1956 GE 14W DAYLIGHT, and a late 60s Sylvania F40/D. I had two Philips F40T12/DXs but they're in my great-aunt's preheater now. I might buy a pair of GE F40T12 daylight tubes to try them out. My only daylights are the old-school ones, which are bright and a decent color but they're sorta drab (everything is blue lol). Maybe I'd buy a case of Sylvania F40/DX tubes but they're like $35 at Lowes so I'll pass lol.

My cell phone camera makes a loud noise too but in the settings you can shut off the sound effects (or simply shutting off the ringer/ "master sound" will hush it temporarily). You checked the link? I guess you didn't bother reading it. :P Yes it's a ten-pack. That's actually not a terrible price but I wouldn't buy Altos. Waste of good cash lol. Yeah I think these 3500K Philips lamps are equivalent to Sylvania's /WX F40s. I bought a pair of those and they're very dim and pinkish like /WW. Not a huge fan of them. I definitely wouldn't buy an entire case of them. Dave Silverliner told me the CRI and lumens but I don't remember them. I think the CRI was 80-range and lumens were comparable to CWX.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 26, 2015, 07:26:17 PM
Oh your grandpa's auto shop is in MA? Cool! Does he actually live in RI though? Do you buy the lamps for it in RI?

Yeah I might have to get some, just to try.  Both GE CX50 and Philips Natural Light that is. 
The only daylight lamps I have are a Philips FC8T9/DX (Awesome color but "flickery") and some "Western Family" (Feit) 6500K spirals. And those /765 Octrons but those aren't at the house anyway.  Unless you count 5000K, which I kinda do.  In that case I have a pair of old-etch GE Chroma 50s, three Sylvania Design 50s (one is called Daylight Full Spectrum though), and a Duro-Lite PowerTwist Vita-Lite.  (And another but it lost vacuum and sits in the dead-bulbs-to-be-recycled pile).

Yeah I skimmed through it for sure, I was in a hurry.  I guess for a 10-pack that isnt' bad. 

You don't like the Sylvania /WX lamps? Have you tried comparing them to your SP35s? I wonder that the current 3500K (I guess it'd be CX35) GEs are like. 

GE F32T8/SPX35 is a nice bright lamp though. I have one in use, next to a standard halophosphate /WW GE Mainlighter and yeah the Mainlighter looks ugly by comparison.

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 26, 2015, 09:10:26 PM
Yep the shop is in Attelboro, MA. The lamps are bought in Attelboro, MA too at Home Depot.

Nope not a fan of the /WX tubes. The dimness is the biggest deal breaker for me. My SP35s are 70-something CRI but get 3200 lumens. I've yet to find another F40T12 that can beat that. It's such a shame they were banned. :8) No CX35 doesn't exist. I think it's SPP35. I'm pretty sure the CX division is only used where SPP lamps fail. So that's CX41, CX50, and CX65 IIRC. They also make C41, which is essentially a CWX without the pinkish/purple tones. Same lumens, at ~2200. The CX line gets 2900 lumens.

Yeah the SPX35s are nice lamps, at least the 2006 ones are. I haven't tried any newer T8s other than two Alto II /735s and two Sylvania /835s, neither of which I'm keeping. Altos went in the light at my grandpa's shop and the Sylvanias are to replace the T17 over my late grandpa's desk whenever that happens. I have the replacement fixture all wires up and ready to go, it's on "stand-by" lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 27, 2015, 08:37:04 AM
I'm pretty sure even SPX35 is banned now for the F40T12s.  Maybe they just no longer make a 3500K F40? I haven't seen any in stores lately.
Yeah C41...I wonder if that stands for "Chroma 41"? I've seen some 34w ones in use that even had the classic "flicker" that a Chroma 50 would have. 

In summary, I really need to get some modern lamps to test out LOL.

I'm not super familiar with the modern T8s either, the newest ones I have are from 2013 and that was before the lastest LPW/CRI ban for T8 lamps. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 27, 2015, 03:16:16 PM
Hmm not sure then but they still must make something since Lowe's has 2900 lumen F40T12 3500K GE twin-packs. They're labeled by GE as "Work Spaces; 40W Bright White; Neutral white, multi-purpose lighting for any room" on the sleeve. Granted, I haven't actually looked closely at them in person, I got this info off the Lowe's website. Perhaps Lowe's is just selling leftover stock but I think it's still a stocked item. Maybe I'll buy a pair of newer GE 3500K lamps and try them out. 2900 lumens isn't as great as 3200 lumens from the SP35 but it's still better than the miserable 2200 lumens of CWX or WX lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 28, 2015, 12:01:08 AM
CWX is a horrible color IMO.  Dim, pink, and "flickery". Just for kicks, I compared mine to a GE Plant & Aquarium and it's a pastel Plant & Aquarium LOL.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 28, 2015, 05:59:20 AM
Yeah CWX is a pretty ugly color. LOL I believe it.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 28, 2015, 08:39:57 AM
Colors do indeed "pop" though.  I guess it's only advantage is that it (sort of) matches /CW but I'd use /950 instead in any situation CWX would be used to be honest. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on May 28, 2015, 08:58:24 AM
Just replaced some lamps at school. There was this surface 1x4 troffer in a workshop I frequent that was dead for over a year that I relamped. I found a pair of late 90s Philips /741 T8s lying around that I used. It replaced two Sylvania /741 lamps that were totally dead but the Philips lamps were also dud as I only got a dim glow from one of the lamps after I relamped it.

I guess you're not the only one messing around with the lights at school Mike lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 28, 2015, 06:18:00 PM
Ah you just found a pair of lamps laying around? Hmm T8 ballasts run the lamps independent of one another though, right? So wouldn't the good one light fully? Or were they both duds? Did you just do this without asking anyone? Good thing no one saw you lol.

So far all the new lamps I put in are still working (well, they'd better be since they're brand new lamps!) and so far, no more lamp deaths from old lamps. All the SPX35 lamps in "our" section of the hallway still shine. It's funny walking downstairs in the votech building since it's so dark in the hall in comparison to "our" section of the hallway, which is lit like Christmas with all the lights working. The rest of the hall is still adequately lit but it would be much brighter with all the lamps working. Understandably, my shop teacher doesn't want me fixing the lights in the rest of the hallway since him and I could both get into a lot of trouble if an administrator saw us or a teacher ratted us out or whatever. Who knows nowadays. I don't think any of the teachers down there would care. Besides my shop teacher, there's three other classes. Pre-Engineering Robotics, Aquaculture (fish/aquatics), and Interactive Digital Media (computer game design and stuff like that). The Aquaculture teacher can sometimes be an @$$ but he's cool most of the time and the other two teachers are pretty laid back and mind their own business.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 28, 2015, 10:52:20 PM
Nice! I used to do a lot of relamping at mine, that's how I got most of my F40 lamps.  And a couple fixtures.
Got a cheap-looking (but still well-built for its time) F40/RS shoplight today.  Remember where I got my first Sears shoplight? Well the house diagonally across the alleyway from it is owned by the same owner and some construction/remodeling is going on. (Well actually he owns pretty much an entire city block).  There's this garage/shed there that's being gutted out in preparation to be demolished.  I inquired about the stripped-out building to his resident caretaker (in charge of things) and was asked "Hey, you want that fluorescent light fixture in there?".  I said yes.  So this afternoon (Got asked about it this morning on my commute to school, I go by this place every day) I went and removed it.  Mainly for the 1994 Sylvania F40/CW lamps it has.  In fact I remember the lamps from around 2009, and thought they were modern at that time! (My dad did a bunch of work on the house the garage "belongs" to). In fact I bet he hung that fixture up there about five or six years ago LOL.  Anyhow I went and took it down.  Managed to fit it in a kayak with me too! (Fixture sticking out between my legs LOL).  I stopped at a small open-air restaraunt near my home on the way (It's right on the waterline) to get something to eat on the way home (and do something else I won't mention here) and was suprised I got no weird looks or questions LOL.  Anyway I went home with it.  Got it home, grabbed a screwdriver, and opened it up, the suspense killing me.  I thought it might even be HPF judging by the weight and where the ballast bolts/slots were on the back of the fixture.  Anyway what got revealed to beautiful 70F afternoon sunlight in the middle of my "driveway" was not only a HPF ballast, but...get this...A UNIVERSAL THERM-O-MATIC X! Full power, non-PCB, the actual best model of 4' ballast IMO.  It's in flawless shape too.  Literally the words out of my mouth (And no one else was around) was "Oh my god!" when I first saw it!  Glad I didn't let it meet the bucket and thumb of an excavator LOL, and gave it a new lease on life! 
It must have been from right when shoplights were getting cheap; the fixture is sorta chincy compared to some other vintage shoplights (1970s Sears) I have but is still well-made compared to many current T8 shoplights.  If nothing else the fixture could be scrapped and the ballast installed in another one of my Sears shoplights, and I might move the homebrew preheat setup someplace else. (I have another single-lamp fixtue on my radar that's a good candidate).
Ballast works well and has only a slight hum, even on the MSW inverter electricity I tested it on.  I should see how it sounds on "normal" power but I haven't tried that yet.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 29, 2015, 11:58:42 AM
So I've got a few hours now on that nice Therm-O-Matic X (on "normal" power too, not MSW inverter) and and it's probably the quietest HPF 4' ballast I have; it lacks the raspy-sounding buzz many other Universals of that era tend to have.  Nice soft hum, and BRIGHT!
OK Remember how we were talking about the color of many F40 lamps and how they compare? Well then '94 Sylvania F40/CW lamps in this shoplight are really "green" compared to stuff like CWP or CWX.  And bright too, not underdriven on a cheap LPF ballast.  The color is kinda nice actually, kinda like /DX MV almost.  But not the nasty yellow-green of 34w CWs, or the Asian F15T8/CW lamps.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 30, 2015, 04:47:12 PM
OK more news and excitement!

So I'm installing a few more of my umpteen loose fixtures around the house in places where extra light fixtures are handy.

I started with a LOA 13w PL electronic dusk-to-dawn jar light I was given a few weeks ago.  It's electronically ballasted with a little button photocell. Ordinarily I'm not at all a fan of PL13s at all, partially because their startup is too blinky LOL...I like preheat for the "cool" factor but in reality I wouldn't want that fast flashing like those do...the linear lamps are much less blinky in my experience when starting up.  But this one is instant-start electronic...although it's little button PC (looks like the one on a solar garden light!) "fades" on and off which makes me wonder about longevity for the ballast and lamp...but if that stuff craps out I have ideas/plans for converting it to magnetic preheat anyway, much as I don't care for preheat PLs, with a better PC that's "on" or "off", not "halfway" LOL.

I installed it lighting my "driveway".  (no cars but I still refer to it as such, as well as the "garage".  Where it is is a perfect location.  Lights part of the driveway, the woodshed/storage shed, (4 posts and a roof pretty much), the front door, (Though not as well as the 3w LED PARs there do), and shines in the bathroom windows, providing a nightlight. For 13w CFL it's surprisingly bright, at least in the summer temps (It gets HOT here this time of year!). We'll see what it's like in the winter in 20 degree temps LOL. But now it's easily a 60w incandescent, maybe even 75w.  Anyone know what the lumen rating for a PL13/827 is?

I had to fudge the mounting job a little bit though.  Originally I was going to put the aforementioned fixture in a different place and put a fake-westinghouse GU24 porch light fixture there (and still might) but I had no 4" round box for that.  With this fixture I was able to fudge it (it was missing parts too) by screwing into the T-111 plywood siding with a hex roofing screw and then pass the wires through about a 1/4" hole I drilled behind where the fixture was going, in the aforementioned T-111.  Then I took a single-gang junction box, screwed it to the backside of the assembly between the studs (unfinished, partially-enclosed generator room) and wired it to a 2-prong lamp cord for now.  I was going to hardwire with a regular light switch so it could be manually turned off as well, but I think I may now leave it on a cord so I can switch it between various banks of outlets right there (one generator, the other generator, or full-time power off my inverter).  But in that case I still need to find a cover for the box I think, and devise some sort of strain relief.  Even so, I'm sure it's probably not code compliant with no junction box and the wires passed through a hole drilled in the T-111 (But it's not exposed to weather, it's behind the fixture). 

Overall I'm happy with how it turned out. Photocell is pretty sensitive to daylight too, though of course it still comes on when there's enough light to see around out there.  Ran all night last night without any problems!

Next project was installing some lights in the storage loft/attic.  I first roughed-in a Lithonia 1XF20T12 strip with an 80s Universal trigger-start LPF ballast in the starway going up (screwed on but not wired in yet).  I then went to put the Lithonia slimline fixture up as an ongoing project; it's ballast is going and one lampholder is shot as is another on another Metalux slimline I have; so I was going to put this one up without it's plunger lampholders but to get it out of the way. 

I took out the ballast to reduce weight hoping I could install it myself.  Turns out the ballast dates to February 1989; so the Sylvania F96T12/CW/SS lamps from 1996 likely are not original.  Then I discovered I don't have a stepladder here at all right now, so that project is on hold, is is mounting the 4 other Metalux 8 foot slimlines in the "garage".  But I got the one dusk-to-dawn fixture up and going.

The Therm-O-Matic-X-ballasted shoplight is also going on the storage loft ceiling, as is a cheap Lithonia shoplight with an IPP "LOA style" ballast (that only lights one lamp) but here again I need a stepladder!

So yeah, I'm reworking/adding some lighting around the house. 

On another topic, I think the whole driving thing is going to go off like clockwork (I hope; granted, Murphy really likes to mess around with me).  Since I discovered my Alaska ID is expired (Scary, they still let me board planes, etc. with it; it's been expired for months and I've used it many times; I think it even let me take the SAT) I have go into the DMV next time I make it into a town (Probably Sitka).  That should be in a few weeks. So I think while in there I'll take the written test and try to get my learning permit so I can start learning. By the time I get my license I should be 18 and good to go.

Which brings me to the next exciting thing going on for me...

Of course this means having to get a vehicle to drive.  Especially since I'll be living in another city (Fairbanks, AK) and want to live off campus (University of Alaska Fairbanks).  Also, understandably, my dad does NOT want to share a vehicle and insurance plan with a male teenage driver...which I can totally understand.

So this gets even better:  today I was visiting with the same friend who goes junking/salvaging (We've both scored all sorts of good stuff, both lighting and non-lighting) and we got to talking about my plans to move to Fairbanks next year for school and how I want to live off campus, learn to drive, etc.  Remember how I mentioned he also has a Deuce he's been trying to get rid of for some time now? Found out more about it today so, hey Mike, I'll update you; I said I would keep you posted.

Story behind it goes like this: Friend found it in the newspaper classifieds about five years ago now, in Port Townsend, WA (used to live down there). No photos of course and the seller wanted all of a whopping 600 bucks for it.  Of course, you'd think it was a rust-bucket-but-runs pickup for that price and vague description (Friend sure did).  The ad had an address, so Friend goes out there,  and as he's relating this story to me I said "And I bet the look on your face was priceless!". Apparently, he told me, he didn't let on that he was surprised and ended up buying it anyway; it ran (That's a start right there!), had a new bed, new tires, etc...so it looked like something that could be resold LOL.  Anyway, he told me, he stuck it up for sale for a grand, then the 600 he bought it for, had it on Craigslist for months, and nobody showed ANY interest whatsoever.  Last time he was down there he even posted ads at all the organic-food places in Port Townsend hoping some farmer would want it.  Nada. 

Nonetheless, long story short, I may be ending up with it in a year. Of course I'd like to see pics, which he does have somewhere.   He's selling his place down there and nobody wants the truck, so he told me he might just practically give it to me; if I'm still interested and things are going according to plan, if I want it it's mine.   We'll see, that's a year away and who knows what will be happening for either of us by then.  But potentially exciting, win-win for both of us. 
We discussed multifuel options, making me think it is indeed an actual Deuce, and winterizing it for Fairbanks, AK in the winter LOL...

I'm going to try to find out more but so far it sounds good.  It's going to be handy for my situation I think: I'd like to live off-campus, and cheapest rent in Fairbanks is like $400/month for a "dry" cabin (no indoor plumbing, that's really common there).  So handy for the firewood chore (These places likely have wood heat), junk-collecting (8 foot fluorescents, free-on-the-curb furniture, etc) as well as moves every 6 months if needed LOL...as well as helping friends move THEIR households around every few months if needed.

So yeah, that's my exciting news for now LOL.  This could become very interesting! (I'm sure I'm doing this all wrong by probably having a Deuce as a first, only, daily-driver vehicle, but I'll just respond to "Why?" with "Why NOT?".  And there's plenty of ways to justify it: firewood, moving households for myself and other people while in college, the multi-fuel thing (run it on used motor oil or cooking oil, drive it for pretty much free), and of course the "cool" or "vintage" (1971 model)  factor (Lighting metaphor could be relating it to a F40 tulamp preheater vs. instant-start T8). 

So yeah, I'm at the same point of getting a vehicle as you are Mike...I'll keep you posted and share any pics I get of it. Time for the massive learning curve to begin!

 


Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 31, 2015, 01:16:41 PM
Good score on the therm-o-matic-x ballast in the shoplight! Those are great ballasts, though I have suspicions that they're not actually full power. The current rating on the draw on the ballast label was probably just never updated when they reduced the "umph" for ES lamps. The one in my great-aunt's strip was nothing but a PITA, granted it wasn't grounded though. Yeah the 80s was when residential fixtures started becoming noticeable chintzy. At that time it seems the fixtures themselves were chintzy but the "guts" were still good stuff. By the mid-late 80s they were crap through and through.

I don't know where you get that Universals tend to have a raspy sound. Every one of mind has been dead silent.  8) Yeah the standard pre-regulations F40/CWs had a nice slight greenish yellow tinge to them. The True Value GE-made F40/CWs in the Western Electric lights in my late-grandpa's garage have that nice tinge to them. The CRI is sorta low on those but perfect for a garage or shop. Wouldn't use them in a kitchen/dining room or bathroom though lol.

Hmm if the PC "fades" it makes me think that something is wrong. It shouldn't do that. Personally, I'd just mask off the PC with electrical tape. The preheat (2-pin) PL13s average about 800 lumens and the electronic (4-pin) PL13s average about 900 lumens. Not sure where the extra 100 lumens come from since both lamps are identical aside from the extra two pins on the electronic lamps but whatever... Maybe the electronic ones have rare earth phosphors to make them look "better" than traditional preheat ones.

Ah yeah let me know how the driving/vehicle situation works out. No update on my end...

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 31, 2015, 02:07:16 PM
I think it's full power.  It instant-starts lamps and they're BRIGHT!  I think rather than reduce the "umph" they just made them dissipate heat better or changed the capacitor values or something.  None of my  HPF ballasts are grounded, though the PCB-containing 40/35w (NOT 34w yet) one in one of the Metalux/Gibson fixtures sometimes doesn't like starting if conditions are just right, otherwise it fires right up. (Even then it lights after less than 60 seconds, or if I touch/rub the lamps.

Yeah the "guts" are still decent but yeah a couple years later they were junk all the way around, though IMO anything magnetic and T12 is worth saving nowadays LOL.

I get it from spending six years at my current school, filled with old Therm-O-Matic and later mid-80s .65a Universal ballasts.  Many have the raspy buzz syndrome.  Also member Nogden on LG said he once took one apart and after 30-odd years the tar had dried and crumbled, thereby causing the guts to rattle around in the case with the AC wave. 

Yeah well last night it did this weird thing where it would occasionally turn off for a couple minutes.  It did it at least three times that I saw.  Weird.  If it craps out totally in goes a better PC from another disassembled fixture.

I would mask it off but I want automatic dusk-to-dawn operation!

Nah the lamp in there is a standard boring preheat PL13/827.  Seeing that sort of fixture and light quality outside gives that vibe of being in front of state park bathrooms/showers LOL. 

I will keep you updated...but yeah I'm getting (slightly) excited; it's still a year away at the  if it even happens at all but still exciting nonetheless.  It will be an interesting project vehicle for sure, it has a new 20' bed and new tires but needs a muffler from what I'm told. (Apparently it is wrapped in a piece of flashing!) But it runs and drives.  I think it'll be clocking some miles for sure with what my lifestyle will likely be once I move back into Suburbia.  If for some reason the school here doesn't have enough students I'd probably stay with my godparents and go to the high school less than a block from the house I spent my childhood in.  In that case, and/or living off-campus in Fairbanks, most of my driving will occur at all of a whopping 50MPH on freeways.  Not that that is an issue, I hate speeding drivers. (I've been with people who do 80 in a 55 zone plenty of times). So I guess I'll be getting used to "life in the slow lane" LOL. 

And if this works out I might have less in this money-wise than buying a "normal" car at a used dealership.  If this happens it's basically being given to me, but considering I'll either be here or in California, and in both cases preparing to move to Fairbanks, there's the cost of shipping it, or a road trip LOL.  But even that may end up being cheaper than buying "normally".  Plus there's the "unique" factor.  It's funny to imagine meeting up with someone in a parking lot..."What are you driving?" or giving directions to a house I'm living in by "Look for the army truck, you can't miss it". 

I'm just now glad I don't live on a one-lane dirt road with no turnouts, and with a 37% grade driveway with a 90 degree turn anymore...that could get interesting in a Deuce. (the house I grew up in in Atascadero) The trash truck always had to back out for 0.2 miles, and they never went up our driveway, we left our trashcans down at the bottom.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 31, 2015, 08:30:46 PM
Ah interesting. I think any ballast will get noisy after a long life of use though. My grandpa's Mark-whatevers in his mid-90s basement troffers are loud. Normally a troffer would be muffled because of the drop ceiling they'd normally be secured in but his are just screwed into the ceiling joists.

Ah  I see. I didn't know you ran any lights dusk-to-dawn because of your energy source. The only light we leave on in my house over night is the 7W nightlight in the bathroom. No outside lights or anything else. My parents are going away for a couple days in July though so I'm going to leave my street lights plugged in overnight for the first time EVER! Will be very cool to get up and have the lights shut off. ;D

That's weird. A 2-pin preheat lamp, but on an electronic ballast? Never heard of such a thing!

Ah it can only max out at 50? That would be a problem for me. Ah we hate "snail drivers" on the freeway. The "slow pokes" should stick to the backroads lol. IMO, the posted speed is a minimum lol. I drive fast all the time, but not incredibly fast. The speeds in Rhode Island are notoriously low. Main roads are 25MPH where 35MPH is more fitting and other roads are 30MPH where 45 is more fitting. Interstate 95 has portions that are 45MPH (the Pawtucket S-Curves) but 65MPH is reasonable. The only roads I'd actually go 25MPH on are densely populated neighborhoods and urban areas. Even on my own street I think 25 is too slow.

I got to drive to Maine and back this weekend for a camping trip. The speed limits were 55, 65, and 70 but I was easily doing 80/85MPH. (do you hate me yet? :P ;D ) Normally, I wouldn't be going that much over the speed limit but that's a long trip and we just wanted to get there and the faster we go, the less time it takes to get there. I don't drive recklessly (cutting people off, tailgating, obnoxious accelerating, etc) and consider myself a good driver. It's the slower drivers that are more likely to cause an issue because they back-up traffic and cause traffic jams. All you need is one old lady doing 45 on the freeway and the whole highway turns into a mess of slowed down angry people beeping horns and swearing every name in the book and leads to road rage and all kinds of crap just because one person was lollygagging behind the wheel on the freeway lol.

LOL I could totally picture you meeting a friend somewhere and they're looking for you and have no idea where you are in a giant parking lot stretching for miles over a sloped area and then in the distance they see the incredible hulk of all trucks towering over every other car in the lot lol. Plus with that thing, you'll never need to find a parking spot because who's going to bother trying to tow that thing? Going to need to find another deuce lol. Wouldn't a truck like that be able to handle the grade with no sweat? I figured those things were beasts when it came to off-roading and steep climbs. Imagine how much snow you can plow with that son-of-a-gun? :D

Ah yeah everyone here always puts their bins at the end of the driveway too. Now we have trucks that have an arm that picks up the barrels and dumps them into the truck and we have special "City of Cranston" barrels, gray for trash and blue for recycling. We used to have whatever bins we wanted and there would be a guy hanging onto the back of the truck who'd hop off and dump the bins in the back, jump back on and the truck would start going again. Granted I have a very short driveway but some people have long driveways and they still have to leave their bins at the curb.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 31, 2015, 11:42:52 PM
I think you have a good point! There's always those 175w mercury yardblasters that sound like a hockey buzzer after decades of dusk-to-dawn operation! Yeah fixtures that vibrate only amplify ballast noise!

This is my first successful dusk-to-dawn fixture.  175w mercury yardblaster in the backyard sucks batteries down overnight...granted I haven't tried since I added a third battery...I should do that sometime!

Good, that's cool! If it were me I'd run them dusk-to-dawn every night if I could...maybe your neighbors with the annoying post light would get the message LOL.

Yeah, I guess it's possible.  My fixture is like this:

Apparently, though with modifications it's allegedly possible to drive the typical breakneck 70MPH on the freeway LOL, or at least achieve an acceptable 60MPH.  I'm fine with keeping mine more or less stock though.  That Sammy Hagar song "I Can't Drive 55" takes on a whole new meaning when your first/only/drive-every-day vehicle might end up being a Deuce.

I've heard in general it seems that "back east" drivers are more impatient.  By the time you get to Alaska everyone is really lax LOL.

Yeah when everyone else is speeding, you also have to speed though to avoid causing an accident. 
 
Here in Alaska I often see people doing almost 50MPH on UNPAVED roads! :o

Today someone and I got into an argument about what qualifies as a freeway. I said 55+MPH, and 4 lanes or more (2 or more in each direction) with divided roadways counts as one.  Am I right?

I don't hate fast drivers, I just wouldn't want to drive like that LOL. But when you then slow down to 60MPH from 80MPH it feels like you're crawling LOL.

A Plus with that thing, you'll never need to find a parking spot because who's going to bother trying to tow that thing? Going to need to find another deuce lol.
  The joke among owners of the 5-ton version of the Deuce is always something like "Why park between two cars when you can park on top of them? Or something like "It still gets 10+ MPG driving over a Prius".  It's funny to imagine parking one (especially a 5 ton) on a steep hill downtown (Read: Juneau, AK). 

It would handle the grade of that driveway no problem (They'll practically climb a wall) but I think my driveway was physically not large enough as it was.  I'll try to attach pics later to give you an idea why.  Otherwise, though, they ARE beasts. Nice that they're off-road capable, though I think the majority of my driving will happen on the freeway, at least for the first few years.  (Knowing how Fairbanks, AK is laid out; it's one of those places where you have to get on the freeway to go anywhere, being so spread out). But if you really want a behemoth, you want a 5-ton.  I wouldn't mind one, but not yet LOL.

Yeah I've always seen trash trucks with the "grabber" feature, never people actually dumping them in by hand. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 01, 2015, 09:18:34 AM
OK, here's some pictorial explanations of why a Deuce wouldn't neccessarily fit so well on the road going to my house in Atascadero: https://www.flickr.com/photos/116969638@N08/?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on June 01, 2015, 04:12:22 PM
Yeah those yardblasters are specifically culprits because the ballast are crappier with minimal varnish and messy windings that loosen up over time. My 1968 100W MV Westie NEMA served decades of dusk-to-dawn service and the thing's dead silent. Same for 95 my OV-10IB and M-250A. The 120/240V GE ballasts (like in my NOS M-400, NOS M-250R1, and silver M-250R in the backyard) seem to be inherently loud though.

Yeah I'd love to run them all night every night but my parents won't allow it anyway (which is why I'm doing it while they go away lol). My neighbors with the post light live diagonally across the street from me so they won't even see my lights on. The only people that would probably care are my neighbors who live behind me and the people who live across the street from them, since their street overlooks my backyard (the whole neighborhood gets a front-row seat of whatever I do in my yard lol). So I might make my lights FCO for those days to keep light trespass down. The silver M-250R and M-250A can't hold FCO glasses, only drop lens, so I'd probably just have to take out the glasses and leave the lights glass-less.

Yeah I guess northeast drivers are a little impatient lol. New York and New Jersey drivers are the worst though. They actually drive dangerously. They tailgate at 80MPH on winding urban freeways (literally less than a foot between the cars) and they switch lanes at the blink of an eye, not even checking if anyone else is in the lane they're going into. They're complete maniacs in NJ! We thought we might not get out alive coming back from Florida lol. There are plenty of slow drivers here though, especially in RI, Since everything is so close-by, there's no reason to rush anywhere so everyone hates driving through RI since it's not very speed-friendly lol. I-295 is basically a speedway (can easily break 80 if the cops don't catch you; they're everywhere on the freeways here). RI also is known for low speed limits too. I-95 is a 65MPH zone from the Connecticut line to where RI-4 merges in (RI-4 is 55MPH all the way, though 80 is perfectly acceptable IMO since it's pretty straight, again, as long as there's no cops lol). Then after RI-4, I-95 is four lanes each way instead of two and the speed drops to 55MPH. It stays 55 until you get to Pawtucket. Then it drops to 45MPH until you get to Massachusetts, where it goes back up to 65MPH. I-295 is 65MPH all the ay. I-195 is either 50 or 55 until Massachusetts (in Mass it's 65MPH). Any other freeway here is typically 50 or 55 MPH. I-295 and the southernmost part of 95 are the only highways that are 65MPH. 60MPH is not used at all in RI for whatever reason. 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50, 55, and 65 are all used not not 60 lol. Nothing over 65 is used either. The southern states use 70MPH a lot but new england is more densely populated so the freeways are too windy and exits too close together so you can't really go that fast. NH has a 70MPH zone but there's really not much in NH lol.

50MPH is crazy on an unpaved road. when I think of unpaved roads,  I think of a windy, narrow dirt road filled with large rocks and stuff. On those you can't do more than 20 lol. You can screw up the alignment if you speed on unpaved roads (or drive on sh!tty Rhode Island roads, filled with potholes lol).

Hmm I don't know specific rules for a road to be considered a highway/freeway/throughway/etc. but here I-95 is 45MPH for a short part and in northern NH I-93 is only one lane each way going through the mountains. The basic requirements are that the two directions much be separated by a barrier or median like you said, either a guardrail, grass median, or jersey barrier are acceptable. There can be no level crossings (intersections, train tracks, pedestrians, etc) so any roads or train tracks or walking paths must cross under or over with a bridge involved. Only motorized vehicles are allowed. Bicycles, pedestrians, equestrians, or any other non-motorized traffic are prohibited from the freeway. (And no, a John Deere tractor doesn't count as a motorized vehicle lol.) Also, any "intersection" must be in the form of an interchange with ramps long enough to allow traffic to slow down and there cannot be any access to property (no driveways or businesses  This road here is US Route 1 and there's a median and multiple lanes and whatnot not there's driveways, streets, and the occassional traffic signal so it's not a freeway, although it looks like one.  (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.457583,-71.467861,3a,75y,33.72h,85.67t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sYAPOaUqvUb4K6fzM25d2mw!2e0?hl=en) )

Yeah 60 is way too slow after going 80 lol. Ah I see, so it's the width of the driveway, not the grade.
Title: lLOL.
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 01, 2015, 07:07:54 PM
Yeah I'd think just about any exposed-winding ballast would be inherently louder anyway, but like you said cheap ones are undoubtedly the worst!
Wow that sounds horrible!
Granted, some of these unpaved roads were so packed down it's almost like driving on pavement, but still! Then you do hit a bump and BANGBANGBANG! I also know of a 50MPH windy, twisty 2-lane highway where frost heaving or ground settling or something caused the roadway to buckle and/or sink in 3 spots...so 3 bumps...local drivers know to slow down for them but others fly right over them at 50 MPH LOL.  Always a hoot if people are also sleeping in the car at the time LOL.
Some unpaved roads are undoubtedly worse than others.  I've seen Avis (the rental cars) have a sign saying something like  CAUTION: DRIVING ON UNPAVED ROADS OR INTENTIONAL ABUSE VIOLATES THE RENTAL CONTRACT TERMS.  And I thought "But I've lived in two houses accessed by unpaved roads!" Ha, another reason for a Deuce I guess.

I took the practice online driving permit test today umpteen times in a row to get all the questions and I passed all except once or twice! This is good, since in a couple weeks I'll be taking the written test.  After that, my permit for 6 months, though being able to drive may be an issue, living in a place without cars...I had better be going to other places more often! Then hopefully by my 18th birthday in December I can get my actual license (In Alaska you must have your permit at least 6 months, though it's valid for 2 years).  Won't have a vehicle for about another 6 months most likely but won't need one, since I'm spending the winter here in a place with no cars/roads.  In fact I could even wait until June 2016 for my road test.  I hope my dad lets me use his little '89 Toyota R-22 pickup for the road test at least; I don't think I have to be on the insurance plan for a road test.  Then, around June of 2016 that friend's place sells and I may end up being pretty much given that '71 Deuce I was describing...right when I'll actually start needing a vehicle (Spending the summer in and out of Sitka quite likely, then moving to Fairbanks for school).  I guess timing-wise this was meant to be LOL.
Your streetview link...I guess you have to go to the next exit and through town, etc.  if you live on the OTHER side then?
I would've showed you something else funny here in Alaska on Streetview but that area isn't covered.  But I'll describe: a restaraunt made out of a singlewide mobile home as the dining room, with the kitchen/prep room in an old school bus!
Title: Y U Change Title?! :-P
Post by: Mike on June 02, 2015, 03:37:20 PM
Yeah F-can ballasts are quieter because the tar muffles the buzz of the core-and-coil ballast inside. When HIDs were used indoors (aside from typical industrial low/high bay lighting) they commonly used F-can ballasts, which pretty much look like HO or VHO fluorescent ballasts but for HIDs and the wires only came out one end or the back. They still make F-can HID ballasts but they're as expensive as all hell.

No that streetview I linked is not a freeway, so there's not ramps. If you lived on that driveway, you'd have to go to the next light and make a U-Turn and come back around.  This road used to have a center island all the way down. you can see the island in this streetview.  (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.767605,-71.4567,3a,21.6y,36.25h,87.41t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sBPQmIxLHyq9TsN_DqQslSA!2e0?hl=en) You'd have to go all the way down to the traffic light and make a U-Turn instead of making a left turn into a business or side street. This part of the median is still there.  Here's where they terminated the island in the mid-2000s when they took it out.  (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.769442,-71.454956,3a,75y,302.32h,77.6t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1skZcom7y7CUzKPIvQSoIQgg!2e0?hl=en)

 Here's a shot down the road with the removed island. You can see they left the concrete underneath. When they repaved part of it they got rid of the remaining concrete strip and painted normal double yellow lines like on any other street.

Hmm sounds like an interesting diner! (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.776766,-71.447407,3a,15.5y,49.44h,85.21t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1smmGp-xP7-ScjgbetFuu0kw!2e0?hl=en)
Title: It was by accident...
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 02, 2015, 06:49:05 PM
Yeah it makes sense that they're much quieter, being potted in tar. Actually the Therm-O-Matic X sounds kinda like a highbay now that I've heard more of it.
Title: LOL I'm just messin' with ya
Post by: Mike on June 02, 2015, 07:39:55 PM
The tar is also for heat dissipation but as you know, it's not a best thing to use since it melts easily but it does the job and more importantly, it's cheap so that's why they use it. :-\

My 1973 F40/RS actually has a buzz to it, sorta like a slimline. It's hard to hear unless you're on a step ladder right under the light because we have our Intermatic electromechanical timer for the outlet in front of the house that we use to control the X-Mas lights. We used to have the timer set at whatever time it got dark and then it'd shut off at 11PM but between Thanksgiving and New Years is tricky since sunset changes so much between then so we find ourselves adjusting the timer every week. So a couple years ago I decided to try using my photocell-controlled outlet stake.

The timer in the basement is now set to run from 6AM to 11PM, so it's on all day. The outlet stake is plugged into the outlet on the house and the X-Mas lights are plugged into the outlet stake. The PC on top turns on the lights at sunset, the timer in the basement will shut the lights off at 11PM and make them come back on at 6AM. Then they shut off at sunrise via the photocell. It's a flawless system since the PC makes the lights come on or turn off at the same light level every day/night and the timer cuts out that 11Pm to 6Am block when no one is on the streets anyway. With the PC the lights get an addition turn-on time too since we only have one set of clips on the timer, so the timer can only turn the lights on and off once in a 24-hour period. With the PC, we can can the lights to come on at night, turn off at 11, and come back on at 6, and turn off again at dawn.

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 02, 2015, 08:49:35 PM
Yeah when ballast meltdowns occur it sure doesn't seem like the best material!
Ever smelled an electric motor burn up? That's another smell you'll never forget LOL.  (I've been around many that fried while I was there).  I've never smelled a PCB-containing ballast meltdown, OR a spiral CFL meltdown, though!

Interesting.  I had no idea code allowed having an outlet controlled by a timer but I think that's a great idea, especially if a photocell is also used, like in your setup. 

Same here, I'm at a pretty high latitude (as are you) so yeah the seasonal difference in sunset/sunrise time is very dramatic.  How dramatic is it there? Here in the height of summer (now) it gets light about 3-4 in the morning and dark about 10-11PM. In the dead of winter it starts to get light about 8AM and is pitch black by 5PM. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on June 03, 2015, 02:19:10 AM
Yeah, I came across a mix of Philips and GE T8s lying around campus (in a Sylvania box no less lol) so I was like ehh what the heck and grabbed two newish looking Philips T8s and attempted said troffer relamp. I think they were used lamps so I wasn't able to revive the fixture lol. Maybe next time I see lamps randomly lying campus I'll try to relamp it again. Although that particular troffer design is a PITA to open. Instead of a door that swung open. You had to lift out a metal bar at the end and then tilt/slide the lens out.

For some reason, maintenance likes to leave lighting stuff just lying around. One time I found a Lutron F32T8 dimming ballast. It also didn't work as the only thing it did was flash repeatedly when connected to power. And yet another time they left a bunch of 2x4 two lamp T8 lensed troffers lying around. Unfortunately no louvered fixtures though. I see they moved some from the classrooms to the maintenance and storage areas when they replaced the classroom lights with wraps. They had two versions, a two lamp version and a 4 lamp version. I believe both types used F40 RS lamps.

Yeah, pretty much most core and coil HID ballasts are noisy. I have many that buzzed straight our of the box. Surprisingly I found yardblaster ballasts to be among the quieter ones. The quietest HID core and coil ballast is a Venture 70w MH I stuck in my R47 and wired it up for 70wMH/100w MV operation. Other than that only my F-Can ballasts are quieter.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 03, 2015, 10:52:23 AM
Wow the cheapo yardblasters are quieter? That's a surprise!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on June 03, 2015, 03:24:41 PM
@ Andy: Yeah PCB ballast failure is not a pleasant smell. :( You smell the PCB oil more than anything else. It's just nasty stuff. Yeah timers are allowed for outlets. I guess... I mean, it was installed by a licensed electrician so it must be allowed lol.

Wow it's not that dramatic here. I gathered these following times off a website:

Code: [Select]
Longest daylight time of the year is 15 hours and 12 minutes.

The shortest daylight time of the year is 9 hours and 8 minutes.

On the longest day of the year, sunrise is at 5:10AM and sunset is at 8:25PM (though it's not completely dark until 9PM, sometimes a little after).

On the shortest day of the year, sunrise is at 7:13AM and sunset is at 4:15PM (completely dark by 5PM).



@ Joe: Hmm weird that they just leave stuff laying around. Sounds like a really strange troffer too. Lesson learned I guess: grab GE's next time. :P ;D  Yeah at first, yardblasters are pretty quiet (the HPS ones tend to remain quiet since the ballasts are so small to begin with) but they tend to get loud over time as those poorly-winded coils loosen up from use.

Code: [Select]
Hmm here's my street lights graded on ballast noise for interest's sake:
OV-10IB:           "A"
M-250A:             "A"
OVC:                  "A"
M-250CF:           "A"
RMA NEMA:        "A"
OV-15TD:           "A"
M-400:               "B"
M-400A2:           "B"
M-250R1:           "B"
M-250R:             "C"
Marco's M-400:   "D"

"A" - Light is either completely silent or has slight hum that can only be heard very close up.
"B" - Light has noticeable hum that can be heard within a few feet but is not annoyingly loud.
"C" - Light is noticeably loud and can be heard from far away. Too annoying for indoor use.
"D" - Light is obnoxiously loud.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 03, 2015, 06:33:59 PM
Loudest fluorescent ballast I have would be a tie between my mid-70s Therm-O-Matic F40/RS and an Advance Mark III slimline I also have. I don't mind a HUMMMMM even if it's loud but the IZZZZZ raspy buzz is annoying IMO.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 05, 2015, 06:59:08 PM
I got some classic 90s GE incandescents today! Standard and Soft White. Both of which I remember from my childhood.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on June 05, 2015, 09:18:47 PM
Nice! Tomorrow I'm officially removing the T17 from my great-aunt's garage and taking it home! This one will be Joe's when he eventually comes down to the New England area after he's done with school and gets the time to. I'm just going to keep my late-grandpa's instead of both.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 05, 2015, 09:45:39 PM
SUH-WHEEET! Good luck! That sucker will take up the whole backseat of the car by itself LOL.  :o Or half the bed of a pickup.  :o
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on June 05, 2015, 10:21:31 PM
Yeah My mom's car is a feature that allows the backseat to hinge forward, making the trunk and "cab" one open unit so the fixture can fit long-wise in the trunk, with part of it sticking into the backseat.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 05, 2015, 11:03:57 PM
That's really helpful.

OK that one did inspire an off-topic digression though. (But this is after all the "off" topic, or as I personally call it, "Diarrhea of the Keyboard". (You know, the phrase "Diarrhea of the mouth").

You know those drive-through liquor/convenience stores? I've always joked they promote drinking and driving, but supposedly not since they just stuff it in the trunk of your car or bed of your pickup.  But that's useless if the back seat folds out; you can access it from inside the car!

Have you gotten the other T17 yet? (The one you're keeping). 

Keep an eye out for replacement lamps; my understanding is that manufacturing is now discontinued and has been for a couple years already (Wow, time flies!).  Even if they're pricy, they may be worth it. 

F90T17 lamps are 5 feet (60 inches) long, right? I suppose if nothing else you could convert yours to F60T12 slimline or HO; at least those lamps are still in production, so in theory they're pretty common.  With HO you might even be able to somehow rig it as preheat to make it seem more authentic. 

It's funny you should mention this today since I was just randomly thinking about F90T17s earlier today and how rare and relatively valuable they are to collectors.  I don't have any, have never seen any in person (That I can think of anyway)  and don't anticipate ever owning any fixtures, lamps, ballasts, or starters for them, and and honestly probably won't ever actively look.  BUT, if I ever found anything F90T17 I'd probably get it, not so much for myself but for other collectors like you; for example lamps are useless without a fixture but I'd strongly consider letting, for example, you, having them for the cost of shipping or in a trade or something.  (Praying of course the postal service doesn't destroy them in shipping). 

If you ever have to transport/ship fluorescent lamps long distance (Case in point, out-of-state sorta-move) I can suggest cardboard mailer tubes.  I transported a relatively rare, valuable, collector's-item lamp that way with success before.  (It was a "Westy" F20T12/CW that was totally Philips/Norelco in design, right down to the silver/aluminum endcaps, cathode guards, etc; there is nothing truly Westinghouse about it).  I took the remnants of a couple cardboard tube mailers, spliced them together, (Cutting one in places with scissors so it would "bend" into the other one) then inserting the lamp, taking other cut-out pieces of said tube mailers and stuffing them around the endcaps, then putting it in a suitcase with clothes on all sides and hoping and praying.  Needless to say, it made it in (literally!) one piece from California to Alaska without incident.  Although I do wonder what the airport security personnel thought as they X-rayed my suitcase...I think I even had the "inspection notice" in my suitcase afterward.

About six months after that I went down there again to clean out the house after my mom passed away.  Since I also went to the same ReStore the Westy silverender came from while down there just for the fun of it, (Although I did get a couple 8ft slimline ballasts for my godfather's woodworking shop lights, one of which I helped install the same day), I should have looked for some 2" PVC or ABS pipe to cut down to 48" sections and stick the '88 Philips (Norelco-made) F40CWs from that house in to ship up here.  But I did not.  Granted, I also left many other non-lighting things behind I wished I could have taken that were even more valuable to me. 

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on June 06, 2015, 10:05:56 PM
Never heard of a liquor/convenience store with a drive-thru. Only fast food places and banks have them here. No, my late-grandpa's T17 is still in service over his desk. Yeah I'm probably gonna have to splurge and get a few lamps from someone like John or someone else who's got extras. Unfortunately the LG collectors don't have the decency to help a fellow collector out, changing top-dollar for anything T17. And here I am flat-out giving one of my T17 FIXTURES to Joe. I just don't want both (well, actually I do, but I can't afford to buy lamps for both). If you ever find any T17 lamps please please please let me (and Joe) know. Yeah shipping tubes can be scary for both the sender and recipient since the shipping company is always inventing new ways to destroy anything and everything clearly marked "FRAGILE - PLEASE HANDLE WITH CARE". I used to mark that on everything but i find that they actually tend to be gentler with packages without "FRAGILE" on them, as if they purposely man-handle  fragile packages. Anyway, yeah if I were to ship T17 lamps, I'd wrap each one in bubble wrap, stick it in a cardboard mailing tube, and then stick the mailing tube in a section of 3" PVC pipe. And then possibly box all the now-nuke-proof lamps together in a cardboard box tailored snugly around the PVC pipes (just to hold them together, not for protection). If they found some way to damage lamps packaged that way then there's a huge problem lol.

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 07, 2015, 02:05:09 PM
Actually I think the LG collectors are great, T-17 lamps are just rare and inherently pricy, period...they're a far cry from "Just a light bulb"

Yeah, I've also often thought that putting FRAGILE on packages encourages the postal service to trash them LOL.  But in the instance you're describing they should be fine unless dropped out a 17th floor window into busy traffic LOL.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on June 07, 2015, 04:55:56 PM
True, pretty much everyone is very nice. Just a select few I wish I could get rid of lol.

Even so, they're not worth 50-100 bucks a bulb. Maybe 15 or 20 bucks a bulb. I certainly wouldn't pay more than that!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 07, 2015, 08:09:44 PM
Yeah I have my opinions as well but I'm not going to publicize them.

They'll just get more expensive regardless.

I stuck up the 'Matic X-ballasted shoplight in my pantry today.  HUGE upgrade over the 60w bulb it replaced!

I'm also starting work on the south side of my house, delving into places with shredded Tyvek, warped plywood, etc. FUN!! (Not)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on June 07, 2015, 09:23:11 PM
Yeah they're just gonna get more and more expensive which is why I think I'm going to splurge and try and get some now. Trouble is, they're hard to come by.

I replaced one of the "boob lights" in my basement with that Lithonia F17T8 wrap that I modified for 3 lamps. It's the one that is on its own switch in the basement by the computer. My mom was having trouble seeing the keys on the keyboard so she wanted more light. The ADV830s are actually a very nice color! Still cooler tone than the halogens. The three F17T8s probbly put out three or four times more light than a 60W incandescent. My mom said she even wants to put F17T8s where the other two "boob lights" are, leaving just one of them behind by the garage door and utility room (we never use it) but my parents don't have the money to buy them right now. Maybe I can score a pair at the restore...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on June 08, 2015, 10:25:12 AM
Yeah, I'm either planning to run F40T17s in them until I can find someone who will either sell me F90T17s at a reasonable price or I have enough money that will justify paying like 70 bucks per lamp. Ideally I'd get at least 4 so I can run two and still have two spares. Another thing I wonder if how much will in cost to have custom T17 lamps made from a neon maker. I guess the only problem then will be getting a hand on the T17 endcaps.

Ahh that remind me when I replaced the 60w pull chain fixtures in the cold storage and furnace room with F32T8 strips. Used the same amount of power but way brighter now lol.

I went to the Restore recently and found some goodies again lol. I got 2 NOS 40w Lumiline fixtures. They are newer ones that look like a fluorescent striplight instead of having the vintage chrome body like my other fixture. One had missing sockets but I had a pair lying around that luckily fit. No clue who made them as the only labels on them were CSA LUMINAIRE and FOR CONTINUOUS ROW MOUNTING. Neither came with lamps though but I should have enough spares on hand.

Also found a new 50w MH ballast, might be using it to convert my mini gumball to 75w mercury vapour but I don't know where I packed away my 75w lamp lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 08, 2015, 12:13:13 PM
Nice finds guys!

Mike, that's cool! Even 2XF17 would work.  Maybe put those Western Electric F20 preheaters down there for now in the meantime/until you move out? Or would they be too directional? I want to replace my two "breast" lights with something else too but I can't decide what yet...I do NOT want any kind of fluorescent there though.   But yeah the pantry light uses less than what it replaced, a 100w bulb (in a 60w-rated fixture) vs. the 96w for a full power 80a ballast and two F40 lamps.

Mike, I have a question for you on this: When you did the 4' fluorescents in your basement did you have any issues sticking a regular duplex receptacle in a round 4" blue plastic box where a regular light fixture used to be? I had that issue.  (So the outlet still hangs by wires).  And guess what? I EVEN hooked up the ground LOL.  (It was a pain!).

I have to redo the ceiling in there eventually anyway so when I do I may replace the box with an outlet/light switch unit instead.  And since the ceiling facing will be foam insulation I want to mount the fixture on a board so the metal behind the ballast is not touching the foam, just in case.

And Mike...new development...I'm going to try to get the M-400A1 going this winter I think. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on June 08, 2015, 03:55:26 PM
@ Joe: Aren't the F40T17s pretty pricey too? Ah yeah I forgot, you're going to end up rewiring the fixture anyway to use the F48T12/HO ballast. Oh well, it's got new wires for when you want to return to preheat lol. BTW, for wirenuts I used those ones with the terminal with the plastic cap that screws on over the terminal for a more vintage look. So instead of being normal wirenuts, you unscrew the black cap and then the brass terminal is revealed. Hmm yeah I don't know if it's possible to have custom-built T17s. Would be cool though! And design them so that the endcaps could be reused perhaps? Similar to lumiline lamps I guess (speaking of which, great find! I have some vintage 40W Lumiline lamps but no way to run them. I just have them for display lol). Ah nice find on the 50W PSMH ballast too!



@ Andy: Nah three F17s is perfect lol. Maybe even four F17s would be cool. The more compact fixture is nice though, instead of having a large 4ft fixture (lol at "large" since they're nothing compared to a T17 fixture or an 8ft VHO lol). I thought about the Western Electric trigger start fixtures but they're a little too "utilitarian" so its a no-go for them. The only fixture style that would fly would be a wrap light. I really like the design of that Lithonia wrap too. I will see if the other one is still there when I go back to the ReStore and if it is I'll convert that one to three lamp too.

Nope, I had no issues putting the outlet in. It's a standardized thing, so they will fit. You just removed the old screws from the box and then install the outlet into the holes where the old keyless or pullchain socket would have been installed.

Ah good luck on getting the M-400A (no 1 on the end) working again! Hopefully it doesn't require any modifying. If it doesn't light a 250W HPS, try a 250W MV. If it lights the MV but not HPS, the ignitor is bad (if that's the case, show me the old one and I'll see if Joe Maurath has a spare, since he's got a number of spare HPS ignitors. You will need to buy a PC or shorting cap for it to work though since Powr/Doors aren't easy to rewire, so you'd have to cut the wires (eek!)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 08, 2015, 11:35:56 PM
The F40T17s are the same size physically as the F90s? But electrically are similar to the F48T12/HO? Oh wow, I learn something new every day I guess LOL.

Mike, would you settle for a 4' wrap if needed, though?

Whoops, that's right, they're trigger start! DUH!

Weird! Well for me I couldn't get a duplex receptacle to fit right...strange.  I need to try again. 

Yeah, I hope it does NOT require much, if any, work or rewiring or modifications.  I'll probably bring a 400w Sylvania HPS lamp I already have to test, and if not then I guess I'd have to go to ReStore to look for a MV (I wouldn't want to overpower the Westy Lifeguard lamp in an area light there).

Yeah, I'll keep you posted.  For me, if the factory HPS gear doesn't work I'd probably just disconnect the ballast and wire the socket straight to the mains and use a large CFL or to a remote 175w MV ballast.  But I'd leave the original gear intact in hopes I could pass it on to you someday.  (See? There's incentive to make it to the West Coast). 

And yeeeeah....the PC thing.  I suppose I could use the been-dayburning-for-years-but-turned-off-with-a-missing-window one off the area light there but I'm afraid it might just crumble as soon as it was touched...so here again, ReStore! Or Home Depot. 

Although if I could actually GET a working ignitor for fairly cheap I'd consider...but honestly getting that thing working is very low on the monetary priority list LOL.  I'm more concerned with college, preferably off-campus housing, and hopefully owning (and thus insuring) a vehicle.  (Any update on your car Mike? Told any other friends yet? I told one about my "potential project vehicle" and got some laugher to say the least).

OK, you might find this somewhat interesting: So I took the gutted remains of a 4' vaprotight. http://www.lighting-gallery.net/gallery/displayimage.php?album=2350&pos=17&pid=86932.
and stuck in a February 1989 Advance slimline ballast with a weak capacitor that was very tempermental with the intended lamps, albeit 60w energy-saver ones.  http://www.lighting-gallery.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-91623   It's in testing right now and it's getting up there temp wise but I can still touch it so far.  Plus this light lacks a channel cover anyway, and will for the foreseeable future so the ballast operates in free air anyway.

Wiring it up was a little interesting.  First of all, I'm not all that familiar with the slimline wiring diagram (I could do 2XF40/RS or a single preheat lamp in my sleep though).  And then since slimlines have no line-side hot/neutral leads on the actual ballast I got myself a little puzzled trying to make lampholders intended for bipin preheat or rapid start lamps work on instant-start with line wires going INTO the lampholders.  I ended up considering myself lucky I still had a broken slimline plunger/cutout socket around http://www.lighting-gallery.net/gallery/displayimage.php?album=2353&pos=0&pid=91691   so I could see its internals and what side to put the wires on.  In hindsight this would work just fine with shunted IS-only sockets, which I may replace these with. 

One thing I discovered is: if I remove the lamp on the blue-wire side the red-wire lamp stays at FULL brightness.  And if I remove the red-wire amp the blue-wire one dim-glows.  Weird! I'm going to have to post this on LG for sure. 

I think it is actually one of my cleanest fixture insides wiring jobs to date, I even added a screw for the ground and tied the old ShopVac cord in a knot inside as a makeshift strain relief. 

Nonetheless, I still took it outside for the initial testing! And I got a video which I'll try to put on YouTube and I'll link to when/if I do.

Funny thing was, on a bright, sunny day, when testing with a pair of the 2011 Sylvanias with the mercury issue it's hard to tell the fixture is even on but I could hear that slimline ballast from 20 feet away easily!

So I was just thinking...so there was a M-400A, M-400A1, M-400A2, (and A3?), in that chronological order right?   For whatever it's worth Deuces and other similar ex-military trucks (5-ton version of the Deuce, etc) all have model numbers that start with M- and end with -A-number.  So they could sound somewhat like GE cobraheads and vice versa.  That being said, I know about both to differentiate a M-250A from a M35A2 or M-400A1 from a M923A2 LOL.  Nonetheless, I find it to be an amusing coincidence. 

Of course, my getting down there to work on the M-400A isn't set in stone yet but I'd like to make it down there for a week this winter.  I would go this summer but I'm going to be pretty busy starting (hopefully) next week. I think this winter break will be busy between visiting my godparents and trying to get the M-400A going (and hopefully a 1978 JVC stereo tuner/whole system) and getting my other junk out of their house I've had sitting there for a year and a half now since moving out of the house in Atascadero when my mom passed away, and hopefully gaining some driving experience (Can you document driving time in one state with a learning permit from another state? I hope so).   Also in the same month or so I hope to visit some friends here in Alaska, who also have a Deuce, which I hope to learn more about (Not to own, but since I may be getting my own in a year).  I've actually ridden in that truck but thought nothing of it (Granted, it was two and a half years before I got interested in them). 

Then, in June 2016 I may be getting my own.  MAY being the key word right now.  I think if nothing else it's a very unique situation: I'm just now starting the process of learning to drive, (a normal vehicle; I've driven all sorts of other equipment), and about the time I'm getting licensed ending up with a Deuce given to me LOL.  Oh well, it's not the first unusual thing I've done that turned out successfully, despite appearing on the outside to be rather strange. 

So my driving learning process might go like:

-Get the learner's permit in a couple weeks (IF I can find all the right identification paperwork I need and my parent isn't available to assist me right now)

-Driving around a town of 8,000 people with no freeways, etc. and a highest speed limit of 45MPH, probably in a stick-shift as well.  (summer 2015)

-Driving in a "real" place, on everything, including 65MPH freeway, probably in a Geo or a Pontiac minivan. (Winter 2015/2016).  (Might even do some basic learning in the very same church parking lot my mom was originally going to teach me in). 

-Possibly driving in what I call "The bad-driver capital of Alaska", AKA on Prince of Wales Island.  (Lots of twisty-turny rural road, much of it still unpaved (but getting less and less thankfully) with nobody else to see LOL.  (Spring 2016)

-And possibly having the wonderful (Maybe seriously, maybe sarcastically) experience of driving from Port Townsend, WA to Sitka, AK (Thankfully NOT through Canada, driving to the ferry in Bellingham I hope) in a 2.5 ton 6X6 stick-shift; AKA a Deuce.  I haven't looked at the road maps but knowing my luck it wouldn't surprise me if I find myself having to navigate downtown Seattle at rush hour as well LOL.  Current owner/friend is selling his place down there and bringing up stuff from there so hopefully we can combine efforts and make the trip together; should be quite an experience LOL.  But that's the fun part, the adventure!

-And finally, driving on Fairbanks freeways, sometimes at -40F. 

Mike, just curious, where did you FIRST learn to drive? Like I said I was GOING to learn in the church parking lot but that didn't happen.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 09, 2015, 12:25:07 PM
OK, now giving the slimline mod a test with 34 watt lamps.  We shall see how it does...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on June 09, 2015, 02:35:37 PM
Yep, still 5ft with bogul bi-pin. Actually, I forget is it's F48 HO or slimline since IIRC, the T17s are instant start.

Hmm I guess I could settle for 4ft wraps (two lamp). Yeah they're trigger start. BTW, I didn;t mean to sound snooty with the italics. I was just looking for a reason to use them since I like to test the different forum features lol.

Hmm maybe it's a different style box? Was the box too small? Yeah you don't want to ruin the lifeguard. If you decide to bypass the ballast and wire the socket directly to 120V, there are screw terminals on the back of the socket. I dunno if the M-400A is different from the M-400 split door, but with mine you remove the two screws holding the socket to the bracket, then the terminals on the back of the socket are revealed. If it's like mine, the wires have U-shaped crimps that go under the screw heads (because they use stranded wire; 16 gauge IIRC). If it turns out the igniter is bad, Joe would probably send it free of charge. He'd just need a valid address. You'd have to show me a picture of the old one so I could tell him what one you need (i think you said it was maroon? If so, there're only one version of those anyway). The mid-80s to present day GEs have plug-in igniters, so replacing one is very easy. Before that though, they used standard ones with a million and a half slip-on spade connectors. Very complicated looking, but I recommend taking a picture of how the old one was wired and then using that picture as a schematic to wire the new one.

Ah so you're creating a F40T12 slimline fixture? lol Sounds very interesting. Hopefully the ballast doesn't overheat, but doesn't sound like it'll be a huge loss if it does lol. I've never looked at a slimline's before so I have no clue how to wire one. I do think I recall the supply lines being connected to the sockets though...

There's the original 1966-1985 M-400A, the 1985-1967 M-400A2, and then the 1997-present day M-400A. There's no M-400A1 or A3. The ones with an A are the Powr/Door lights. The single door ones are all "R" instead of "A". (1959-1969 M-400, 1970-1985 M-400 "split door", 1985-1997 M-400R2, and 1997-present day M-400).  It is an interesting coincidence. An M400 (without the dash) is a GPS system but the M-400 is a cobrhead. One dash can make a world of difference. It bugs me how some people don't put the dash after the M when naming GE cobraheads. And the whole M-400R3/M-400A3 thing is made up. GE says M-400/M-400A right on the spec sheet!

As for the learner's permit,  you don't keep track of driving hours. You just need to have the permit for six months before you can go for your license. You don't even need to get behind the wheel at all during that time (but of course it's helpful to get all the experience you can). Your permit is only good in the state you get it in though. So you can't get your permit in Alaska and drive in California. Or vice versa. Wherever you get your permit, you can only drive in that state until you get your license. When I got my permit I couldn't really drive anywhere since RI is so small lol. Anyway, there's a possibility that the rules might be different out there but I'm just telling you what the rules are here. I assume they're the same across the board but who knows... Good luck!

The first time I got behind the wheel was in my high school's parking lot on a weekend. The parking lot is a fair size and there's nothing to hit (no parking curbs, signs, or light poles), but the lot is on a hill. It's also bumpy and full of cracks and should be repaved but never will be since the school district has no money. They city's schools all have crappy parking lots since the last time they were paved was probably the earlier half of the 90s.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 09, 2015, 10:23:45 PM
Interesting. Why not keep it preheat? Availability of starters or something?

I figured you were just being humorous, I do that all the time too.  (In person, with snooty voice tones, to be funny). 

Forum features...I STILL can't figure out how to embed a photo or make a clickable link LOL. 

It was almost too small.  Like I could've gotten one screw in, but not the other one. 

Yeah, most mogul sockets have screw terminals on the back and are held to whatever bracket, etc. they're attached to with a couple screws inside the socket shell.  Getting in there is going to be a pain regardless...trying to see what I'm doing, etc.

Yeah, I also subscribe to the theory of "take pictures as you disassemble".  I'd like to figure out how to wire an HPS ignitor anyhow since I'd like to get my 50w unit going, using 2 or 3 14/15/17/18/20/22w chokes in parallel. I'd like to make a little 50w HPS fixture for outdoor lighting or something...here again, that could run all night on my power system.  If I could just get a pulse-rated socket I could convert just about anything to 50w HPS, at least in theory. 

The biggest thing though will be figuring out if the light is 120v or at least 240v.  If it's 277v or 480v or something I'm SOL I guess; in that case there WOULD be a ballast bypass and I'd either use a large incandescent or CFL or remote-ballast it to 175w MV or something. But optically it might be a little "wrong" using a different light source.  Maybe a PL13 would at least be optically somewhat correct?

I guess you could call it a F40T12 slimline.  F40T12 lamps on F96T12 ballast, regardless.  It's rated all the way down to 48w 60" lamps (I thought it even listed F48s but I guess not).  Even after running two 34 watt lamps for a couple hours it gets hot on one side of the ballast (Other side is still more or less stone cold) but not untouchably hot...granted I couldn't LEAVE my hand on there but I can touch it briefly.  I swear, it almost runs cooler with 34w lamps.  I need to ask people like Don and Trent on LG about this but so far it seems safe/practical in the amount of testing I've done thus far.  I'm curious for cold-weather operation; I'm tempted to take this light to Fairbanks with me if I get my own place up there, just to see how it does outside at -40F LOL.  Or if in the summer up there (Or in California) if the ballast overheats in triple-digit temps. 

Lamps run "Hot".  (Physically hot to the touch, even in the middle) Even cold 34w lamps warmed up quickly.  Lamps aren't impressively bright, making me think things are running within spec.  If anything they're dimmer than on a HPF full power RS ballast. 

I'm almost tempted to try this with F32T8s!

Slimline ballasts wire up like this: (I'll try to describe).  So the ballast has a red wire and a blue wire out of one side. (At 700+ volts I might add, be careful!).  Wire those to one lampholder each, with nothing else.  Take the black and white wires and put them to other lampholders.  (I might clarify, black/white on one end of the fixture, blue/red on the other).  Now the white/black are the "plunger" side sockets.  Take your 120v line in and stick the hot wire into the same socket (two "holes" instead of four) as the black wire, and the neutral into the "white" side.  That's it.  Pretty simple once you know what you're doing (I've done a couple slimline ballasts now, so I know) but it can be puzzling and frustrating at first; I was baffled at first when I did my first slimline ballast replacement a year and half ago. 

You just have to have a parent/other adult certify you have 40 hours of experience.  At least that's how it works in Alaska. I'm just wondering if I can say "I drove" in another state...I'd think the basic principles are the same.  But maybe my permit is NOT valid in a different state; I was thinking it might be since licenses are to an extent, and I could prove I'm a resident of Alaska visiting the state of California (Although I have been a California resident in the past but I don't think that counts).

Yeah, I'd think a school parking lot is also pretty empty on the weekends.  The church parking lot I might learn in in California has light poles, etc. but is pretty big. 

But yeah, I'm getting ready: taking the practice test online periodically. Also reading up on some of the TMs (Technical Manuals) for the Deuce.  Kinda like how I learned a lot about lighting: lots of casual studying and by the time I had to deal with stuff like replacing ballasts I knew what I had on my hands LOL.  Same here, I need to at least know how to start one, as well as most of the preventative maintenance.  That'll help for sure.  Especially if I end up with that one in a year from now; I'll know what I'm dealing with by then.  Going in prepared always helps!





Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 10, 2015, 07:17:48 PM
OK, today's random free junk scores:  A Harris Electrical kitchen drop-dish 4' fixture (Which I'm scrapping, it's in bad shape) with...get this...one of those late 70s-early 80s Advance full power .80 amp, non-PCB Kool-Koil ballast that actually WORKS! I've found a couple of those before but they didn't work.  In hindsight I wish I still had them; I would have tried with F20T12 lamps to see if that worked, after how the F96 slimline ballast experiment went so well. I have a BenchLite LPF one that only lights cathodes I now want to try that on, though I think it may overheat. 

Said Advance Kool-Koil not only works at all, but it also sat out in the rain for a year before! So it's case is somewhat rusted, as is its fixture, but I'm tossing the cheesy-looking fixture anyhow.  Ballast label was/is still legible enough to see what it is, so I took the opportunity.  It was among a bunch of old windows I also considered taking (They've been TRYING to get people to take them) to use in a future greenhouse but I didn't have time or a way to get them home. 

I brought the fixture home, leaving behind the ballast channel cover and fixture diffuser behind.  Wired it up to a cord, stuck in my pair of tester-victim Sylvania F40/CWP, and plugged it in outdoors on a long extension cord.  Fired right up! When testing inside later, out of bright sunlight, it seems to have the rectifying-like flicker until warmed up (Granted, could be the junky tester lamps I'm using).  So maybe the cap is indeed going.  I thought I know why this was removed for a minute until it warmed up.  I think this ballast is going in Sears Shoplight #3, which is currently running a totally rigged homebrew F40 preheat setup out of crappy LPF rapid start residential ballasts.  Slowly weeding out junky LPF ballasts.  So then all three Sears lights will be F40/RS HPF again.  Well I have a fourth but it's in really rough shape and pretty rusty.  So then I'm thinking of taking the preheat rig and taking half of it, a ballast that only lights one lamp anyway and eventually trips its thermal cutout, and installing that in another junk 4' shoplight, possibly the one it originally came out of a few months ago, so I can still have a preheat 4' setup I can use, and taking the other, still-working-properly ballast and putting it in the other channel-cover-and-diffuser-less 4' vaportight, and cutting it down to 3' and running a GE F30T12/CW/RS in one side and finding another 3' lamp...maybe the new-in-the-sleeve Sylvania F30T12/CW/RS is still at one of my favorite junk stores in Sitka, I'll be there in a couple days and may grab it if it is, or wait until the end of the summer and buy another lamp or two (Maybe C50s or K&Bs) at True Value.   Or something else Philips if I get to Home Depot in Juneau this fall.

But that's not all! But wait, there's more! (Insert infomercial voice). 

At another place I was given a bunch of random assorted general-service bulbs.  Including: a bunch of 13w Feit "Conserv-Energy" 13w spirals, (albeit boring 2700K), a couple old Philips 'Earth Light' lamps, (at least they aren't the typical spirals and are programmed-start!), a Sylvania-made generic 13w 3000K spiral, a Philips 23w "Mini Decorative Twister" (2700K), three Feit Electric 60w soft whites with C-shape rough-service filaments, and a couple Philips-made G30 globe "bathroom vanity light bulbs" (As I think of them).  Either 40w or 25w...they aren't very bright! Also got a 3000K TechnaBright 13w A-shape but that one doesn't work.  And a little North Korean candelabra-base flame bulb (with the sculpted glass).  And last but not least, two brand-new-in-box Philips 800 lumen 2700K 8.5w LED A19 lamps.  I really like them.  I put them in my hallway in place of a couple 13w 5000K spirals, and it's a lot better, albeit ugly and pinkish.  But at least it's instant, full-brightness light there now; the warmup time for (analgam) daylight CFLs was starting to annoy me in recent weeks.  Also replaced some other (daylight) CFLs with higher-wattage (100w equivalent) CFLs I got in that lot today where they fit.  Sadly, no more 5000K or 6500K in those places but it's brighter, which is what I care about anyway. 

There were several dead Feit spirals in the lot, which I may try ballast harvests on at some later date, but not now. 

So yeah, more junk laying around! I'm collecting again LOL.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on June 11, 2015, 02:55:12 PM
The starters are no problem for the F90T17 fixtures but finding the lamps is the issue.

The external connections on the igniter are easy. There's a red, a white, and a blue. But the older igniters are open-board igniters, so all the internal components are exposed instead of being contained in a canister, making the hook-up a little more difficult.

To embed a photo, just get the picture link and stick it between (http://) brackets. The picture has to be online though; not on your computer. For a clickable link,  <ENTER TEXT YOU WANT SEEN HERE>  (http://<ENTER URL HERE>) There's an entire topic on forum features in the General Discussion section IIRC.

I still say just spend the 20 bucks and get a 50W HPS ballast but that's just me. :P

If you post clear pictures of the M-400A (specifically at the terminal block in the top housing) I can probably decipher what voltage it's wired for. A 175W MV could work if you adjust the socket all the way forward so the lamp is centered in the reflector.

I've noticed that T8 lamps are actually hot too. T12s always run cool to the touch but T8s actually emit heat the whole length of the tube! Never heard of such a thing!

Yeah it's probably different state-to-state. I should also add that with a learner's permit, you must be accompanied by a licensed driver over 18 years old at any time.

Ooo a drop dish fixture? 1X4 or 2X4? I love opal drop dish lights but they're pretty much just light blockers lol. Glad the ballast is in working condition! Unfortunately, most F40/RS ballasts made after 1980 are crappy to some degree and unfortunately, most magnetic ballasts are from the 80s or 90s since the "dangerous" and "energy pig" pre-1980 ballasts were all ripped out and tossed.

Ah nice score on the bunch of random lamps lol. Yeah everyone loves those Philips LEDs but I actually like the Cree ones much better. I had a 75W= Philips LED (the beaker-shaped ones with the yellow panels) but it was too big for any of my fixtures, so I gave it to my grandma and aunt and replaced the 100W incandescent in the kitchen with it. A little bit dimmer but uses 85W less and gives off no heat (which was my main concern, as those cloth wires in the ceiling box above the light are getting crispy, and that's one expensive re-wire if the insulation breaks off and shorts to the metal box. I'm hoping the no-heat LED lamp will buy the wiring up there some more time. As long as it remains untouched it'll be fine (so in that case, it'll be the future owners since I repainted the existing light and it's ready to serve another 70 or 80 years lol). Anyway, I noticed that it's pinkish and I sure wouldn't want it in my house but it compliments the 70s red ceramic tile floor in a way.  This is what their kitchen floor looks like.  (http://www.uniquetextures.com/textures/medium/01515.jpg) I quite like it actually. It was done back when my dad was a little kid but still looks recent! Ceramic tiles will practically last forever. We have some but they're very textured and light-colored so they trap dirt.

Well, as long as I can get those two 8ft fixtures from the ReStore, (I won't be able to go until next Wednesday the earliest)  I'll be installing two of them end-to-end in a row style, so 16ft of light! I'm going to leave the fixture one lamp per 4ft section though. If I think it's too dim I will consider retrofitting them to two lamps per 4ft section. Definitely not three lamps per section though since that would be way too much power lol. Even with one lamp per section we're using 128W (vs. 120W) and getting a LOT more light. For some reason I just can't help but think that it won't be bright enough lol. I have a beef against single lamp general lighting fixtures (aka, not accent lighting or specific-purpose lighting) because I like more light.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on June 12, 2015, 04:17:26 PM
GOOOOOOOOOD NEWS!!!!!!!!!!!

National Grid is FINALLY fixing the infamous Rte 37 lights! They've been working on them all this week. Turns out instead of new lamps and photocells, they've just been replacing most of the lights that don't work. I saw them installing a new light pole today to replace a knock-down that went missing a few years ago. Really cool to see. They bring the pole on a truck, then feed the cable through the pole, make it come out the hole for the mounting arm, attach the arm and feed the cable through the arm, install the light, and then use a crane to lift the fully-assembled pole and then they bolt it down with an impact gun. Very fast process. Took them maybe 15 minutes to get the whole thing up. (I was going to the ReStore but parked on a street nearby the freeway and watched the whole process lol.)

I didn't know NGrid still used the tapered elliptical poles since I haven't seen any recent ones. Lately, any new poles have been 10ft trusses. But these new poles so far have all been 6ft tapered ellipticals (on ramps; trusses are still used on the freeway). Originally, that's now NECo always did it: 10ft trusses on the freeway and 6ft tapered ellipticals on the ramps, but NGrid usually just uses trusses for everything.

I'm so excited to see them fixing all the lights! I can't wait to see it at night! (which probably won't be until the fall since it doesn't get dark until around 9PM here)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 13, 2015, 09:45:10 PM
Nice to see them finally fixing those lights!  I bet your basement is going to be a lot brighter!

So today I went to the dump and scrap yard in Sitka, AK.   I would have grabbed all the good looking lamps, like Lifelines, but the vehicle we had was a flatbed truck so they would  have  been  hitting the road at 30MPH. The  other lamps in the bin included a Philips Westinghouse 4 foot cool white, a GE shatter guard deluxe daylight, some . 34 watt GE Watt Misers, some pre 1992 GE 40 watt cool whites, and cool white Lifeline, as well as a 4 foot 40 watt Sylvania Natural lamp, and lots of GE low mercury green etchers. And lots of 4 foot T-8 lamps.

The municipal scrap yard is however one of those places where nothing goes back out, though, and there was a like new Blaze King woodstove...new firebrick inside and all but nobody could save it LOL.

I've actually never been to a scrap yard before that though.

Said scrap yard also had a fairly rough looking  Deuce parked just outside the gate...it was a conversation  starter for the person I went with since I could finally point out an example of what I was trying to describe two days prior when explaining my vehicle situation.  So I also related the story behind the one I may be ending up with in about a year.  People gawk and laugh and think it's ridiculous when I tell them what my first, only, daily driver might end up being.  That's half the fun, making people Crack up.

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on June 14, 2015, 02:31:00 PM
Yeah I wonder how it looks at night now with some of the lights fixed. There's still a bunch of missing poles; they only replaced two that I know of. There's some lights that are missing parts still so they haven't fixed those yet. Maybe they'll do more this week. They don't do lighting work on the weekends.

Yeah the recycling center here is state owned and nothing ever goes out of there except in a truck or whatever to the place they send it to.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 14, 2015, 11:12:53 PM
The dump is lax, as is the recycling  center, but the scrap yard  is really strict.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on June 15, 2015, 06:01:34 AM
Ah here the dump and recycling center are one place. I assume the scrap yards here all all independently owned.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 15, 2015, 11:50:43 PM
This was 3 different places .

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 16, 2015, 09:54:33 PM
So I went into the DMV and took the general knowledge  test  for obtaining a driver  permit . I passed, 16 correct  out  of  20, and  that  was  my  first  try  too!  So now  I have  my  learners permit.  Exciting  stuff, I hope to be fully  licensed  and  driving  by  June  2016, when  I'll be  starting  to  spend  a lot  more  time  in  places with  roads. Hope  to  also  have  the  truck  by then  as well , since if that  happens  it will be  happening  in  June as well.  So I have  a year  to  learn  and get  licensed  and  ready.  I'm getting  excited !

I also  renewed  my  Alaska  ID card. Both that  and the  driving  permit  are currently  temporary  paper  copies  in  a little  zip baggie. My actual ones are  in  the  mail. 

I saw  your  video  of  the  OVC  and  it  was  nice  to  finally  be  able  to  put  a voice with  the text  you  write! You  talk  just  like  I do.  I despise  the  way  my  voice  sounds  on  recordings  though.

Speaking  of recordings  I also  setup  my voice mail  box  on my  cell  phone. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on June 17, 2015, 08:14:22 AM
Good job! 16 out of 20 is an 80, which is the minimum score needed to pass in RI. I forget what I got on mine. I think and 85, but I had also taken 30 hours (or something like that) of Driver's Ed.

Yep, mine were paper too but the card comes in the mail within a couple weeks.

Ah cool. Yeah I think my voice sounds weird on video too, but that's what it really sounds like to other people so I might at well get used to lol. On video I speak more "proper" lol. In person I speak with more slang and more of a Rhode Island accent lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 17, 2015, 10:55:41 PM
Yeah I was impressed  with  myself  too! Even  the  DMV  lady   was  impressed .

Yeah in person I'm very  sarcastic. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on June 18, 2015, 08:26:08 AM
Well, NGrid trucks were fixing more of the I-295/Rte 37 lights yesterday! I guess they're FINALLY taking the lighting issue seriously. I just hope they replace more missing poles in addition to getting the existing ones working again. There are poles missing in key spots (spots that really need the light) such as the two poles at the end of Rte 37, where the 50MPH freeway ends at a three-way intersection with a traffic light and a yield sign. There NEEDS to be a light there. There are so many accidents (usually with the island-mounted Yield sign ending up across the street in someone's front yard) because people don't realize its the end of the freeway (despite the giant yellow signs saying FREEWAY ENDS 1 MILE and FREEWAY ENDS 600 FEET lol) and they try to turn off the freeway at 50 MPH and they're surprised when they end up across the street with a YIELD sign on their lap. :8)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 18, 2015, 07:56:01 PM
That sounds  like  some  of the interchanges in Alaska, freeway ending abruptly and all.  How abut 65 MPH  freeway  ending at a radar speed trap thenot transitioning to 50MPH  2 lane windy twisty highway? That's how the Seward Highway starts, leaving Anchorage.  And Juneau has ,a random 4 way stop in the middle of what would otherwise be a freeway. 

Best one I know of though was the road going to a friend's  place in Past Robles, CA.  You exited off the freeway and thenot went a mile and a half of one lane dirt road to their house.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Solanaceae on June 19, 2015, 04:20:36 PM
I was seeing lots of high mast lights cycling, dead or glowing blue when I was in Florida months ago. Not exactly convenient during spring break.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on June 21, 2015, 08:59:07 PM
I got my Buick Regal today! See the Off-Topic section in the gallery on LG for pics. ;D :D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 22, 2015, 04:27:06 PM
Congratulations!  I'll keep  you  posted  on  how  my hopeful vehicle acquisition  goes, but it likely will be a slow process, you won't hear  much for  the  next  6 months to a year.

I might get some driving  practice  in my godparents Geo this winter.  Ever seen one? They are tiny and get 40 MPG! 

Got the boat out or dry dock and back into the water  today. 4 days of scraping, zinc  replacement and bottom painting later it's all done and looks good.  Almost have all 72 feet and multiple  levels  painted, best I've seen it look in 9 years now!

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on June 22, 2015, 06:04:47 PM
Yeah I'm excited. We're going to get it registered tomorrow (under my dad's name for insurance purposes) and then Wednesday it's going to the mechanic for an inspection and to fix a few things.

Nope never even heard of a Geo.  ??? Sounds similar to a smart car?

Ah boat sounds like it got quite the facelift. :D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 22, 2015, 07:58:32 PM
I don't blame you one bit for being excited!  I'm already excited about my potential truck acquisition  and that's still a year away, if it actually happens...we will see where we're  at in a year.  I think I'll hopefully have less invested in mine than the average locally bought used car, since mine would be more or less  given  to  me  and I can hopefully  come up with some alternative fuel. 

A Geo is a little gas powered car, with manual  transmission...tiny but really good  gas mileage! It's probaby best if I learn at first on an automatic  but all the vehicles I'l be around and learning to drive with are manuals which is not necessarily  a bad  thing.  They're my dad's 1989 R22  Toyota  pickup, my godparents' Geo, etc.  And my potential future  1971 Deuce and a half would also be a manual, with a non-standard  pattern too from what I've researched, though  I don't remember exactly what. But I will be having plenty  of practice driving a stick LOL, probably on a daily  basis!

It has indeed gotten a bit of a facelift! I love the result but it's a lot of maintenence  and money. If I end up with it I'm happy, but if it sellc I'll honestly be just as happy, it's a huge responsibility and I'll be far away and thus not involved very much for 4 years while in college in Fairbanks.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on June 22, 2015, 10:44:30 PM
Yeah best of luck with the truck acquisition and keep me posted! Ah I see. Sounds like a good beginner car. I learned in my mom's 2006 Chevy Impala LTZ. Nice car and really nice acceleration too. It's basically one level below a sports car lol. Built pretty solid IMO too.

If i get a pick-up, i want a smaller ones like your dad's. I don't want a monster 7ft tall "asshole" truck as I call them, because most people who drive big pick-up trucks are assholes behind the wheel lol. My dad's 2011 Chevy Silverado is a little big for me. I'd rather have a smaller pick-up with no backseat. Just a two-seater so there's more bed space.

Either way, the upkeep is a good investment since the more you put in, the more you'll get out. BTW, what will be your major while away in Fairbanks? I'm probably going to go to New England Tech, which is a trade school right here in RI. I'll be studying electricity of course. ;D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on June 23, 2015, 09:34:30 PM
Yeah I will keep you  posted  on  how  it  goes.

Yeah, I also want  to  learn  how  to  drive  in a small  car  for  a  start.

And I think I'll have  a  good  idea  of how to  drive  a stick, considering  my dad's 1989 R22 is a stick, my godmother's  Geo  is  a  stick, and  my  potential  Deuce  is a  stick  shift  as well, with a non-standard  pattern  too, 5th is in  a  different  spot.

So am I a total  jerk  if I drive  around  town  running  errands  and  commuting  to  and  from  college  and  work  in  a  2.5  ton  military  truck? LOL just  kidding.

Yeah I don't mind  the  lifted pickups   but  yeah  they  do  often have jerk drivers behind  the  wheel.

Not sure what  to  do  yet but I  am  nevertheless  going to  take  my generals  and  go  from  there.


Yeah smaller cars are easier to handle. No that's a real beast! I'm talking about the pick-up trucks with all the bling and lift kits and all blacked out body and windows and they tailgate, cut you off, etc. lol.

Well, I got my car registered today so it's officially got plates! Tomorrow it's going to the mechanic.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 23, 2015, 11:19:50 PM
Yeah I guess  mine falls into a  totally  different  category  altogether. 

Yeah I know exactly  the behavior  you  are  describing. 

Congrats! How many hours  of  DMV  wait time did you  endure? I spent 2 hours in DMV here in Sitka to renew my Alaska  ID and get a driving permit.  Wait time, test, processing, pictures, etc.

And I might add I will be putting a lot of miles on the truck if all goes  as  planned.  I'd like the adventure of driving home initially with it if I can afford to  do so, from  Port Townsend, WA to Sitka, AK.  But every piece of advice I've ever read says that is I'll advised, in  40 odd year old trucks that often have sat dormant for  years.  I plan to go to the ferry in Bellingham, WA, since  Sitka is on an island  anyway and I also won't have to  drive through Canada. Then I will have it here in Sitka for that summer, either as a daily  driver  to  run  errands  while working based out of here, or wherever I base out of, or just park it at a friend's house  for 2.5  months while I'm in Port Alexander  where there are no roads anyway.  Then in August I plan  to ferry to Haines, Whittier, or Seward, the latter in an ideal  situation  since I am somewhat familiar  with the first 3 hours up the Seward Highway  up to Anchorage, then on 7 more hours, or more since I'd only be doing about 45 MPH, up to Fairbanks.And repeating this routine 4 times a year going to and from  Sitka/Port Alexander  in the summer and at Christmas.  And maybe evenot driving all the way from Fairbanks to Atascadero and vice versa.  Lots of driving, on alternative  fuel!

And while in Fairbanks  I want to  live outside of the city proper, for less air pollution, noise, etc.  And out of the valley hence less extreme temps, subzero in winet and possible triple digits in summer.

The area I want is outside of Fairbanks proper too, about 50 miles each way...so an hour each way.  Thankfully  it's all 2 lane highways  and freeways, no jammed up Boulevards like Anchorage.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on June 24, 2015, 10:33:46 AM
My dad had gone for me since something came up and plans were changed up a little. Originally we were supposed to both go but since the car is being registered in his name, only he had to go.

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 27, 2015, 10:49:13 AM
Ah I see.  I plan  to  register  my tru know in my own  name, though, as it's being more  or less  given  to  me.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on June 27, 2015, 12:18:59 PM
Well you still need insurance. That's why it was registered in my dad's name. I bought the car with my money. But insurance is a LOT cheaper if the car is registered to my dad.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 27, 2015, 01:37:40 PM
Yeah I still gotta  have insurance  regardless.  I'm  curious what the rate would be for a fairly new driver driving around a 2.5 ton truck every day.

So I went in True Value earlier this morning for some ShopVac  filters and also grabbed a pack of...guess what Mike...your favorite modern genearly service bulbs currently  availablseeking (not, they are indeed junk)...can you guess what they are?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on June 27, 2015, 05:49:19 PM
Could they be Chinese GE Halogens? So far, the clear Sylvania ones I have in use have not dimmed out and (I got clear bulbs specifically so I could monitor the capsules) and still clear! I feel like they've dimmed but I guess I'm just used to the brighter light now because the capsules are not blackened at all!

Oh, remember how I was going to get a couple of street lights? Well, I'm getting them Monday. ;D The first light is a mid 80s M-250R2 FCO (70W HPS), which looks exactly like  this.  (http://www.galleryoflights.org/mb/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-14989) It's got a metallic NEMA tag and the "street side" of the refractor is recessed into the door. This version was made from 1985 to around 1987 IIRC. The only thing that changed in 1987 was the NEMA tag; they switched to a solid yellow instead of metallic. The actual fixture remained the same from 1985 to around 1990-ish.

The second light is a mid-80s GE M-250A2 FCO, 50W HPS. It was a 100/175W MV version used by NECo but was rebuilt with guts from a junk 50W HPS GE light from the same era so it's a period-correct OEM ballast. Anyway, it will look like  this  (http://www.galleryoflights.org/mb/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-11715) and  this,  (http://www.galleryoflights.org/mb/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-7619) except mine is not actually factory-HPS. This generation of the M-250A2 was made I believe from around 1984 to about 1987. Unlike the M-250R2, they actually changed the M-250A2's top housing. They smoothed out the top front of the housing.  You can see here that the top front of the housing rounded off, but the door is still boxy.  (http://www.lighting-gallery.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10169/normal_DSC06590_GE_M-250A2_4_Way.JPG) They changed the M-250A2 housing again in the late 90s, changing the door to being rounded too. The Powr/Modules are interchangeable between all three generations though, so a 1985 M-250A2 could receive a 2015 Powr/Module if needed. I actually have a spare Powr/Module from George (a mid-2000s version) that I plan to mount a 250W MH/MV ballast to so I can change the M-250A2 from 50W HPS to 250W MH/MV just by changing the door and lamp! Very convenient!

However, most utilities do not use replacement modules because the replacement modules aren't really any cheaper than a new fixture. Plus a new fixture is under warranty. The old fixtures' warranties were up years ago so there's no real incentive for the utilities to keep the old lights going. NGrid doesn't reuse any fixtures, but I have seen used refractors and refractor doors installed on lights missing said parts. Typically they will rip off the NEMA tag off the replacement door and write the wattage in marker in place of the NEMA tag. Either that or they just leave the NEMA tag on, which is confusing if the light is a different wattage than marked on the door they used to replace the missing door lol. I've seen 50W HPS M-250R2s get replacement doors with 250W HPS "25" tags on them, glass lens and all. Looks just like a 250W light by day but much dimmer at night. If the light doesn't work though, the lineman wouldn't notice that.

Anyway, in addition to the two GEs, I'm also getting a 4ft aluminum mounting arm to hold onto for when I get my own place. That brings me up to one 24" arm, two 30" arms, and two 4ft arms. I want to get some 6ft arms since that's the standard around here (Sitka seems to use mostly 8ft arms FYI when they're not using the really short arms). Here, they used some 4ft, lots and lots of 6ft, 10ft, and (i think) 12ft (could be 14ft though). For metal poles, they use 6ft, 8ft, and 10ft arms. I'm also getting a couple photocells and a few lamps. Pretty awesome! They're coming from Steve Zalimas. Very nice guy who lives north of Worcester.  Here's his website if interested.  (http://www.z-mods.com/zmodslighting/homeframe.html)  And his Craigslist ad.  (http://worcester.craigslist.org/atq/5045451944.html)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 27, 2015, 11:52:48 PM
Yep, they are indeed Chinese GE halogens! My previous ones were actually Hungarian.  These new ones are also the modified spectrum  ones, and have  a totally  different  etch. 

We will see how  long they last! Had there been 4 packs of the clear ones I would have bought those  instead.

I think next time I'm in Spenards I'll pick up some Sylvania  ones to try as well.  And next time I'm in True Value again I might get their store brand  Westpointe  ones, which I somehow suspect  are made by Philips.  So I guess I can run  some life tests! Some of it may be on the grid but most of it will occur on a diesel genset  with less than perfect voltage  governing.  So very real world testing for sure.

Neat, one of the best feelings is that of picking up a newly acquired  fixture later in the week, I've been there plenty of times myself.  Post pics! Is this a fellow enthusiast and if so is he a member of this site and/or Lighting Gallery?

So here's a neat one: A newly met electrician  friend is coming over each evening to help wire in an alarm system the Coast Guard  insists we have on the boat.  We got to  talking today and we both agree magnetic ballasts outlast electronic  ones any day.  He is going to try to get me a couple new in box 8ft  fixtures from his workplace (in fact the same shipyard we had the boat dry docked in)  that have been sitting there for years.  I expect them to be the normal slimline strip lights but it would  be  great  if  they  were HO turrets or something.  Sounds like a trip to True Value for some lamps may be in order.  I need 8ft  lamps anyhow for my other slimline fixtures I have.  They'll be 60w since that is what True Value has but this Winter I plan to ask by dad to get me some 75 watt lamps, preferably daylight, from  Home  Depot.  I would likely put the fixtures in use here on the boat for now but if it sells I plan  to take themy with me, I will not let a slimline or High Output 8 footer get away from me!

And, as if this is not enough, he is also a Deuce enthusiast! Small world! Maybe we can  learn  from  each  other..
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on June 28, 2015, 05:20:29 AM
Dave said the best way to check is to open the package in-store and look at the filament inside the capsule. Turn the lamp sideways. If the filament sags, put it back on the shelf. If it doesn't sag, it's a good lamp that shouldn't dim sideways. The Sylvanias that I have didn't sag and so far they haven't dimmed either!

I will most definitely post pics. ;D The albums are already created in my gallery! lol

Yes, I believe he is "slz" on here and LG.

Wow awesome friend you made! He sounds a lot like my electrician friend Marco. Is he into lighting at all? Marco is (but he's not into Deuces lol).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 30, 2015, 01:27:01 AM
So today I went back to True Value and priced out some stuff...8.49 for a 60w 8ft cool white slimline, 37.99 for an electronic Advance slimline ballast, BUT no slimline lampholders! I'll go back for some slimline lamps, sockets, a ballast, etc.  I did however get a Westpointe  175w  mercury lamp, that  is a Cleartop! It's an oddball lamp overall, pics to come.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 30, 2015, 05:52:56 PM
Went to the local funky, independent thrift store here in Sitka today, the Junk Trunk.  And I scored...

A GE/Universal  slimline ballast, new in its unopened  box, for 30 bucks.  Expensive but that's still less than what it would have probably retailed for and it's still one of the huge, heavy magnetic bricks that turn on with a loud thump sound, much more character than its modern electronic counterparts!  Still cheaper than an electronic  Advance at True Value, which cost 37.99 IIRC. I plan to install it in my circa 1989 Lithonia 8 foot strip light which is currently ballastless but came with a 1.45a  Advance whose capacitor was going.

A Westpointe  100 watt blue BR40  floodlight

A Feit  20w  red CFL PAR38 

A used OttLite  13w  PL, which at least is not 2700K.  It may go in my LOA  dusk to dawn jar light, or my ABCO  13th preheat PL screw in adapter.

A quad tube PL13, not sure what color yet as I haven't had the chance to test it yet.

A clear rough service 100 watt clear GLS  lamp.  I have a planned use for that one in a very  19th looking fixture I have where a clear lamp would be most appropriate.

A Sylvania  175 watt MH  new in sleeve, for 5 bucks.  My circa 1993 Epectripak  yard blaster's  HX-NPF  175 watt mercury ballast actually fires up a GE MultiVapor  lamp I have so I hope this one will work too in the event I run  out of mercury lamps. If not it makes good trading stock for something else.

A Sylvania 4th LumaLux  HPS, new in sleeve, which goes to my dad for a pair of HUBBELL 400 watt  sodium  floods he has as a spare lamp, as I have no use for it...but it cost 2.50 so I figured  why not.

Also some C9  Christmas  lights too.

And a Sylvania  F30T12/CW/RS, which I plan to use as a running mate with a GE version of such I have, in a future homebuilt 3 foot fixture.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on July 01, 2015, 12:08:33 AM
Another thing that occurred to me...ceramic metal halide and probe  start metal halide are not the same, right? For the 18 months I've known the store the Junk Trunk has had a couple of Lithonia 400w ceramic lamps there.  I almost grabbed themy this time thenext saw they were ceramic.  Will they run on a standard CWA  probe start or mercury  ballast?  They're coated so I can't see the arc tube and are NOS  in their boxes.

It's a fun store, I'm sure I buy their stranger things  like HID lamps. And I ran into other people  I know in there and haven't seen in awhile.  And I went  with 3 crewmates  as well this time, those places are always more fun with multiple  people.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on July 01, 2015, 04:26:19 AM
Ceramic metal halide lamps are electrically the same as pulse start MH lamps. They unfortunately will not work on probe start MH. CMH/PSMH uses an external ignitor to start and runs at a higher voltage than standard MH. Running a PSMH lamp on probe start rigged for an ignitor will make the lamp die sooner and running a standard MH lamp on PSMH will likely make the lamp explode.

Wow quite the finds! That GE/Universal ballast sounds nice. I probably would have passed on it since I don't have an F48 fixture but it would be good even as a dedicated lamp fryer lol.

Westpointe 175W cleartop! AMAZING!

I got my new M-250R2 FCO and M-250A2 FCO Monday. The M-250R2 is from 1985 and the M-250A2 is from 1987. The latter is newer than I thought it was. It was removed around 1993 so it was only in service for five or six years. Such a shame. That was the case for many of the 100/175W MV M-250A2 FCOs.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on July 01, 2015, 03:56:48 PM
Thanks for the explanation! Yeah I thought the clear top was weird too, it's well made for a cheap off brand Chinese lamp...ful, framer, etc.  I doubt it's true deluxe white but right now I don't have access to my yardblaster to find out.

If the 175w  Metalarc  won't work on my yardblaster, which I bought it hoping it will, you can have it if you want Mike.  It may be until late August before I can test it but PM me if you're interested  and we can work out a trade or something.

Did you get the new cobra heads working yet?

BTW I saw your lighting  tour vid...great video!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on July 01, 2015, 07:25:32 PM
Hmm nah I have three 175W Sylvania MH lamps so I'm all set. Thanks though. You never know when you'll find a 175W MH ballast! I actually don't have a 175W MH ballast lol.

Yep thy worked when I got them but I took them apart and scrubbed them down so they're nice and clean now.  8)

Thanks!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on July 01, 2015, 08:23:23 PM
I knew you had three already but I thought you had a 175w  MV/MH  ballast kit...did you trade that off?

I'm sure if it won't work for my yard blaster someone in the lighting community will want it.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on July 02, 2015, 04:18:52 AM
I haven't had that 175W Advance MH ballast for years now. Probably should've kept it... :(
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on July 02, 2015, 11:17:57 AM
Traded it off? Chucked it due to lack of space?

It's funny seeing  you've posted at 1 in the morning my local time...I'm usually still awake then! I often don't fall asleep and instead listen to music, DX  the AM radio dial, and surf LG and  GOL during the wee hours of the morning. I have to keep weird hours during the summer anyway LO, I joke about the 2:30 feeling at 2:30 AM, not PM!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on July 02, 2015, 03:41:56 PM
Remember that 250W MH/MV brown wallpack that I painted silver? Well, I ran out of space (or so I thought) at the time so I gave it back to the person who gave it to me, except I swapped out the 250W MH/MV ballast for the 175W MH/MV one I had since I already had a 175W MV fixture to run my 175W MV lamps but no 250W MV ballast so I kept it for that reason. I should have just kept the ballast and socket and gotten rid of the fixture in a worst-case scenario...

Yeah I have to get up at 4:30AM to get ready for work so I usually get on my computer when I have extra time in the morning before I leave. I've slowly been trying to get myself in bed earlier to compensate for getting up so early since I'm naturally a night owl. Now I'm in bed by 9PM on a good night and then get up at 4:30AM for work. Work is 6:24AM to 2:54PM (yeah weird times, the other half of the facility is there 6:30 to 3PM; they do this to try and alleviate the traffic issue when a few thousand people hit the road at the same time...). I don't leave the house until 5:50AM so I could really get up at 5AM if I wanted but I like the leave myself plenty of time in the morning so I don't have to rush. And then I have time to catch up on my computer in the morning to make up for the time I don't spend on it at night. After I got out of the shower, I used to be on my laptop until 11:30-ish after "going to bed" around 10 or 10:30. Now I really do just go straight to bed from the shower. I need all the sleep I can get lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on July 02, 2015, 05:16:30 PM
OK to be honest I don't remember that fixture  at all.

Yeah I like some Duh Time  as I call it first thing in the morning.  It's interesting  how my schedule changes with the seasons.  In the dead of winter here it doesn't get light until about 8AM  in December and January and is pitch  black  by 5PM.  Despite this, I often find myself  getting up at 5AM, avoiding my grumpy  before ingesting  his first cup of coffee dad, and firing up the computer and catching up on this site, whilet usually blasting some music, THEN  eating breakfast, and getting ready for school.  It starts at 8AM and  in reality my commute really only takes about 15 minutes tops but I try to allow myself about 45 minutes just to be safe.  Not because of traffic, but because my commute consists  of walking almost a mile each way, sometimes in beautiful weather, other times in pouring rain, trudging through several feet of snow, or in freezing temperatures.   Also in my commute is driving an outboard skiff or paddling a kayak across a bay, it's faster than walking.  It can get interesting in 20 plus knot winds though! People marvel at my commute, saying they sit in traffic for 45 minutes each way.  But after this year my commute may switch to driving an hour each way, thankfully in fairly light traffic most of the way, down rural 2 lane highway and, once into the city, in the slow right hand truck lane on the freeway at all of about 45 MPH  in a 1971 Deuce and a half. Seasonally in subzero temps in winter, and maybe even triple digit temps in summer, in a truck with minimal heat and no air conditioning.  I can't decide which one could be considered  more fun, or miserable, depending on what you consider  adventurous. 

Now, in the winter, my commute happens in more or less darkness.  Thankfully for part of last year I was lucky enough to do one of my (online) classes at home so my morning commute didn't have to happen in the dark!  This also allowed me to sleep in as well.  Later, when I finished another class a month early, I wasn't even leaving the house until 9:15 AM! That was nice.

Also, my dad is gone much of the time (our lifestyles and jobs and schedules simply  do not match up) and when he's gone my routine changes as well, particularly  in the morning!  My next door neighbor says he can tell if my dad is gone since he doesn't hear my generator fire up at 5AM and see lights on that early on winter mornings.  I often play music first thing in the morning, do you? My clock radio gets a lot of use, though most of the time I'm waking up to NPR since it's all I can get on FM  at my house.  The thing I hate waking  up to most of all though is the sound of the telephone  ringing! I usually  put the cordless  phone by my bed but if the 12 volt battery bank that runs my house gets below 11.1v  during the night the inverter shuts itself off, therefore causing a power outage and rendering the cordless phone  and answering  machine  useless so the other phone downstairs keeps ringing insistently, forcing me to run down the stairs at 6AM  in the dark! My dad likes to call me really early.  Another immediate thing in the morning  in winter is stuffing more wood in the wood stove before it goes out.

Now, during the summer, I wake up to other crewmembers and the smell of eggs cooking (whenot alone I never cook egg containinget breakfasts).  I'd rather wake up on my own if it has to be early! But it's worth it for $150/day wage though.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on July 02, 2015, 06:14:12 PM
Ah my commute to school is around 10-15 minutes but that's by vehicle lol. Walking it would take a LONG time! Never tried it but it would take over an hour probably. It's all downhill from my house to the school but all uphill on the way back (and steep hills I may add).

My work commute is a little under 15 minutes (google maps says 20 minutes but that's assuming you go the speed limit lol). Most of it is freeway. I take the road that my street is on to another more-main road which Rte 37 ends on, then take the first exit (like 500ft from the freeway entrance lol) onto I-295 and then follow I-295 a few miles until it ends on I-95. Then I get onto rte 4 (freeway) and Rte 403 (also freeway) and then 403 turns into a regular 25MPH road that everyone goes 60MPH on lol (the area is a huge industrial park built on a peninsula-shaped plot of land). I go 35-40 on the backroads from my house to the freeway and then go 75-85 on I-295 (65MPH zone), then around 65-75 on I-95 (55MPH zone; I'm riding with traffic here), then 70-80 on Rte 4 (55MPH; riding with traffic or weaving in and out of slow cars), and then 75-80 on Rte 403 (50 and 45MPH). I'm a bit of a lead-foot but there's no one on the roads that early in the morning (except on I-95). Afternoon speeds are slower naturally lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on July 02, 2015, 10:36:22 PM
Sheesh , I'll be driving under the  speed limit on most roads if I end up with the Deuce! Otherwise I'll probably do the speed limit  or whatever the rest of traffic is doing.  It'll be a slow crawl on the interstate though in that truck when driving between Fairbanks, AK and Templeton,CA, which I plan do do round trip twice a year whIle in college.

While in college there will also  be  a  lot of driving  period, but after that I pLan on moving back to California and may even be able to get away  with  less than 1000 miles per year.This could almost let me register  the  truck as historical  in California but I wouldn't be able to haul anything...but it would be for personal use...so we'll see.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on July 03, 2015, 07:24:31 AM
LOL I'm definitely a lead-foot. Yeah you probably can't go too much faster than 55 in a Deuce lol. My car can technically be registered as an antique since it's 25 years old. However, like you said, it's not allowed to be used as a primary car. Only for recreational use (car shows, going to the beach, a joyride, etc). However, I see people at Electric Boat driving cars with antique plates back and forth to work lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on July 03, 2015, 03:38:46 PM
Yeah 45 is the ideal top speed.  Not very fast on the freeway! 

Yeah what's the oldest vehicle you see there?

I think a coworker and I came up a name for it...the Pallet Jack.  Partly an inside joke.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on July 04, 2015, 08:51:08 AM
The oldest car there is probably 70s or 80s. I'm not good with models or years. The best I can do with cars is look at the logo. and I don't know half of them either lol.

Every day at 3PM when work gets out, we have what's called the "EB-500", when everyone rushes into their cars and drives like maniacs out of the place, running through the red lights and everything, all the way to the highway, getting up to 70 MPH on a four-lane 25MPH road until said road develops a jersey barrier and a 45-55MPH speed (turns into a freeway). I just wait ten minutes until the lot is cleared to avoid getting tramped or T-boned in the parking lot...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on July 06, 2015, 10:56:10 PM
Yeah, good call on staying back 10 minutes lol. It does sound slightly entertaining to watch your coworkers scramble out of work though lol.

My commute to school takes around an hour on the bus and subway or half an hour by car. I take the bus and subway though since I have to pay an arm and a leg to park at school and the traffic is so bad that unless I got up really early and left school really late, I end up taking more time driving lol.

The oldest vehicle I've seen around here and looks like a daily driver is probably from the late 80s-early 90s. The vintage cars only show up during the summer.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on July 07, 2015, 01:52:24 AM
LOL  I cracked up reading your description  Mike! WHAT does EB  stand for though?

In Port Alexander there's no cars of course but people have ATVs, and despite the 5 MPH  speed limit people do 20 all the time.  I'm far out the end of my street and when people go by I always notice LOL.  I also see every boat or floatplane that comes and goes from town, in fact I getc buzzed by themy all the time!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on July 07, 2015, 04:25:04 AM
Wow yeah it seemed to me that travel just plain sucks in the Toronto vicinity lol.

EB is Electric Boat, where I work. 5MPH is a little slow but given that the "roads" there aren't paved, that's about what I'd be doing anyway lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on July 07, 2015, 04:29:08 PM
The one that cracks me up, as a possible future Deuce owner, is the sign Avis car rental has: CAUTION:DRIVING ON UNPAVED  ROADS OR INTENTIONAL ABUSE VIOLATES THE RENTAL  CONTRACT  TERMS.

Last night, well actually at 2AM, on a late night slash early morning run to the 24 hour supermarket for some groceries I drove by a blaster fitted with a new Westpointe  clear top like mine...and it appears to be deluxe white !
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on July 07, 2015, 06:18:17 PM
I've never actually heard of a clause like that. A road is a road. What happens if you live on an unpaved road? (Just don't tell the rental company I guess lol).

2AM? I couldn't help but laugh at the fact that you'd be out in the middle of the night getting groceries lol. I like to eat but for me, it can wait until morning lol. Nice that you saw a MV though! Here I've noticed more and more MVs slipping away. :(
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on July 08, 2015, 07:20:10 AM
Yeah thats what I thought too! I have lived in two different houses on unpaved roads...I'd just drive VERY carefully.

LOL yeah I actually wasn't the one who had the idea to go originally but went anyway.  Nothing like walking around in the supermarket at 1AM like a zombie.  Someone (me) shopping for: Ice cream and tea tree oil!

And at 1AM this morning I was testing my version of such lamp! It is indeed /DX!  Yeah as you can tell my hours are totally FUBAR right now.  Had to make the 12 hour trip from Sitka to Port Alexander for work and had/am having some downtime for the wee hours of the morning so I immediately raced home LOL...AND slept half a night in my own bed for the first time in almost a month.  Or tried to that is...it was way too f-ing hot LOL. So I got up early and posted here instead before heading to work at 4:45AM LOL.  (And leaving again).



Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on July 08, 2015, 04:40:18 PM
Ah so it is /DX. Cool! /DX is brighter but frosted lamps are cool since they have the same color as clear lamps but without all the harsh glare. Even fewer lumens than clear MVs though since the frosted coating doesn't alter the spectrum any to add lumens.

Aw man I couldn't live without AC. I've always had the luxury of air condition and couldn't live without it. I can spend the day at work sweating and spending the car ride home sweating (AC broken in the car) but I couldn't live in a home without it. I just can't sleep! In my old house we didn't have central air but I had my own window unit in my room since I was the only kid at the time. We left that house when I was four and lived in my grandfather's apartment for almost a year (so I lied... I did live without AC for almost a year but that wasn't really a home, just a place to sleep in between moving since our contractor/neighbor who lives behind us had gotten sick so there was a delay in the house being finished.

Work doesn't start until 6:24AM for me bu I have to get there before 6AM to get a parking spot. It's absolutely ridiculous! They don't have enough parking and yet they're expanding with more buildings and want to double their employment in five years (both will add to the parking issue).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on July 09, 2015, 11:53:54 PM
Heh, I'm all up for a late night snack but I just go and raid the fridge for snacks instead of venturing outside to buy food lol. Of course even if I did go outside, most shops in my neighbourhood are closed :P.

Yeah the /D as I call em, merc lamps are pretty neat. They have the clear merc colour but without the glare. Unfortunately I think only Feit makes such a thing. I suppose you could either sandblast or acid etch a clear merc to get the same frosted effect though. Personally I'm ok with either /DX or clear mercs.

This summer has been a bit chilly so far so I'm more or less fine without AC but most summers here are hot and humid that the first thing I do when I come home is switch on the AC. My house does have central AC but the AC never really reaches my room so I got one of those portable AC units for my room. It still needs to vent out the window though a large hose but it was pretty much the only type of AC unit that fits a crank window.

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on July 10, 2015, 01:52:41 AM
I've never really had air conditioning.  Our house in Atascadero  had it but we never used it since it made the electric  meter go nuts and we were right at the poverty  line.   But I do know the feeling  of sweating all night  long!  In fact 2 nights ago at my house  it was so hit I wished I had a window unit, all I had was a fan.  I'm not normally one who has to sleep with a fan going for the white noise but it is helpful in a place where birds start singing at 3AM.

Our current vehicle, a 1989 Toyota pickup, does have working heat and AC.  Yes, at times you need AC in Alaska!

In fact a running partner'a boat has central air and heat...and the wheelhouse has its own window unit! Granted it's an old oil rig tender from the  Gulf I of Mexico, where it's much warmer.  It's also very 1970s  on the inside...plywood fake plank paneling everywhere you look, and all lit by T12 vapor tights with mostly 950 and daylight lamps, mostly Altos. All likely on full power PCB  ballasts! Just like I'd have it.  But they're gutting it this year...

Yeah I was happy to see it was a real phosphorescent lamp too.  I want to get a so called D lamp too though  if I'm in a Lowes.  I like this lamp though, it's cheaper thanot a real GE  or Sylvania, seems better  made, and is a clear top..much more character!

The reason I was going grocery shopping at that hour was because  it was only then that myself and my crew mates had time  before loading up and leaving at 7 AM  and we were still awake and alert andthe  store would be deserted and traffic would be light  so we could get in andout  of  town  faster.

Also I frequently  drive by a pair of old ElectriPak  yard blasters  like mine, with clear BT  shaped lamps, probably Philips  Lifeguards, that still work after decades but are definitely  getting dim and green.  My versions of such are ED  and Philipsized  but still have the Lifeguard arc tubes so hopefully they last that long evenight though I took the one I had in service out in favor of the cleartop.  It's still a glare bomb  without the refactor though.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on July 13, 2015, 06:40:59 PM
I went to Lowe's to buy some GE F32T8 5000K lamps but they only had one 2-pack left and I needed two (four lamps) so I opted for 6500K tubes instead. These are for one of my grandpa's troffers in his basement since it doesn't like to start tubes. Probably a combination of the humidity, dirty tubes, and the fact that the fixture has high hours on it. They said when you turn on the fixture, one set struggles to start and comes on within 10 seconds and the other pair of lamps remains out for up to ten minutes before coming on. However, when I turned the fixture on it started right up. Anyway, I offered to change the ballast out to a T8. This fixture in question is the most used since it's wired to the upstairs switch so whenever they come downstairs, it comes on. The other troffers are on different switches in the basement. My grandma prefers the bluer tubes so that's why I went with 6500K instead of cool white or 3500K. The cool whites were cheaper but cool white is boring lol. I already have an Advance four lamp IS ballast that's brand new that I paid nothing for. The the lamps came to $21 with taxes. The F40/RS Advance 0.73A ballasts still work so I'll keep them.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on July 15, 2015, 04:49:49 AM
She sounds like me, liking  bluer lamps.  Sylvania Oct Ron 6500 lamps seem good, I have had a dozen in use since 2013 with no issues so far.

The old ballasts may have not been grounded, thus being fussy about starting.

Dreamt last night that I came across a preheat 4 foot shop light like yours that went up in smoke...in the dream I somehow knew it belonged to the city of Port Alexander, AK, where I live, and although it was laying forgotten  under a building  I made a mental note  to myself in the Dream that I would ask the maintenance  guy about it, who in real life has given me many  lamps and ballasts, and is the perpetrator  of the 1971 Deuce and a half  I might be given next June. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on July 16, 2015, 04:12:39 AM
The GEs are apparently SPP65. I thought they were SPX65... They get 2900 lumens, so nice and bright I guess. I don't know the difference between SPX and SPP though. SPX is only rated for 100 fewer lumens.

The ballasts and fixtures are all grounded. They were installed new in the 90s with all new wiring. There used to be a few incandescent pull-chain lights (a couple are still up) but they wanted more light so they put up a bunch of 4X F40/RS troffers.

There are a few silver slimline turret fixtures that look near NOS in a scrap dumpster at work, along with one of those 1940s green porcelain reflector incandescent industrial lights with LOTS of dust on it. Electric Boat has super high security though and the Navy is there quite a bit so I definitely will not be able to get these. The SLs are sans-ballast and cover but I can tell they're turrets by the slimline lampholder brackets on the ends.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on July 19, 2015, 06:53:59 PM
I got my ballast bracket from Darren last Wednesday and installed it and the Advance 250W MH/MV ballast I have onto the 2003 Powr/module from George. The M-250A2 FCO is now installed in my backyard on the deck with the 250W MH/MV door with a Sylvania /DX mercury vapor lamp. The M-250R was moved from the deck where it's been installed for so long to the shed. The M-250R has a very good pest guard near the slipfitter so there is no chance of wasps making a nest in it. When I had the M-250R2 installed on the shed for about a week, I had the backside all taped up so wasps wouldn't move in. While I was installing the M-250R on the shed, a few wasps were buzzing around my head. Those damn things won't stop being a nuisance. So far every light that I've installed on the shed gets a wasp nest. The 60s M-250R was well-designed and they made sure no wasps could get in when they designed it. Not to mention the thing is virtually indestructible.

We'll see how the M-250A2 FCO does. I've never had wasp issues with the light on the deck so I should be fine. I did have bird issues with my M-250A a while back since I didn't have any guard at all on the slipfitter area so little birds snuck right in and pooped all over the inside of the door. Fortunately the wires were not cloth or the birds might have pecked at them to use the fibers in their nest. When I removed the nest no one was home so it was a peaceful eviction lol. I've never had birds bust one of my refractors to make a nest in the optical area either, which is good.

The light in front of my house had that happen. The birds somehow pecked a hole in the refractor and made a nest. Must've gotten hot at night with the 100W HPS lamp running! That's probably why the lamp started cycling. They installed a new refractor and it hasn't had any issues since, other than the lamp needing replacement.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on July 20, 2015, 10:57:13 AM
Funny you should  mention fixtures I  dumpsters, I know of some 4 foot turrets and wraps and vapor tights and ah 8 foot high output  fixture in a scrap bin at a place I walk by.  I WOULD just grab them but scrap metal is worth money so I'll ask first.  Wish me luck!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on July 20, 2015, 03:58:36 PM
BTW, I found out that above the drop ceiling in one of the offices, there are rows and rows of slimline turrets sans reflectors and lamps. Just the top housings and socket brackets left. The ballasts' leads were cut at the case. The drop ceiling has F32T8 2X4 lensed troffers.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on July 20, 2015, 11:24:59 PM
Yeah you never know what you might find above a ceiling in terms of lighting lol. I posted pics recently of a in progress department store reno with long abandoned rapid start louvered fixtures above a false ceiling. I wonder why they left the slimline turrets there. Normally you would think removing the lights would be quicker than just pulling most of the parts from it lol.

Just came back from a brief trip to Michigan, and found a sweet preheater at a antique store. Pics are up in the gallery. Also stopped by Menards and got a pair of Sylvania skywhite T8s. The 8000K colour temp looks quite odd I'll have to say. I'm not actually where else to find them aside from Menards though. As far as I know, other home centres in the US and Canada don't stock them/ 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on July 21, 2015, 10:36:22 AM
Yeah I'd like to find some of the 8th lamps too.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on July 21, 2015, 02:50:13 PM
Yeah I saw those pics of the louvered fixtures you saw. Those were really neat since they were still fully assembled and lamped for the most part. The ones I saw at work were stripped of most of their components. Yeah you'd think they would have just removed them instead of stripping the parts but it's a state-owned building so nothing decision-related makes sense lol.

8000K? I find 6500K borderline too blue so anything higher than that I would consider a blue lamp and not a white lamp lol. I tried the SPP65s in my Lithonia parabolic troffer in my laundry room and I didn't like it. The lamps themselves are instantly full-brightness with no flickering, not even at the very first power-up. The 6500K color is just too strong for me. But Lowe's was out of 5000K lamps and my grandma prefers bluer lamps anyway (I'm retrofitting one of the 4X F40T12/RS troffers in my grandparents' basement, which is why I got the lamps).

I want to use 5000K lamps for my Lithonia parabolic troffer but I sorta want to keep the 3500K color though since the fixture has the original lamps. I will leave all the original lamps in the fixture until two die, then I'll replace them all and keep the remaining working one. I want the original lamps in the fixture as long as possible. The ends keep getting darker and darker but still all three original SPX35s light up every time!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on July 27, 2015, 04:07:58 PM
yeah state owned bui,dings always have weird stuff going on.

6500K  is indeed really blue but like I said once before one of the funniest things I've seen was the supermarket lit by a random mix of 6500K  and 3000K! But the 6500K  lit areas were really pleasant  to shop In IMO.


so I looked up the place with the fixtures in the scrap dumpster in the phone book I'll look it up on Google Street view later so the story makes more sense, a picture is worth a thousand dollars words..  here's how the conversation went...have a good laugh at my expense...next time I try something like this I will put it on speakerphone and record it...

Office lady: Sitka  Sound  Seafood

Me: Yeah, hi, hey, do you guys own the big concrete warehouse across the street from the plant?

Office lady: Yes

Me: Hey, I'm calling in regards to the scrap metal dumpster  out front.  Are items in there up for grabs to the general public?

Office lady: Hold on...

(silence)

(ringing tone, I've been transferred)

(it rings umpteen times)

Some guy: Hello

Me: Yeah, hi, I was wondering  about  your scrap metal dumpster.  Are items in there free to the general public?

Some Guy: (sounds  really surprised  and incredulous) No, they're not.  Either we'd use them ourselves or send theme back for recycling

Me: OK, thank you anyway

(click)




I may still drop in in person and  ask...



So I've had a lot of time  to  get  to  think  about  some plumbing  and  electrical  projects  I intend  to  do  over this winter.  Including, but not limited to...

Moving my home brew F40  preheat setup out of Sears Shop light  3 into the other  old vapor tight channel like the one I put the  dying Advance slimline ballast in.  I want to take out the ballast which trips it's thermal cutout, and replace it  with  something  else.  I'm thinking the most likely candidate, at least for right now anyway, is a Universal 2 lamp 14, 15, 20 watt LPF  currently in a Lithonia 2 foot strip.  I think if I shunt it for  one lamp and use a 4 foot lamp it's electrically the same  so it should  do fine, just wiring a starter in line with the cathode heating circuit.  It's a wimpy enough ballast to work well for that  I think, it's nothing spectacular running a pair of F20T12s, in fact it's dim and flickery  on MSW  inverter power which isn't ideal.  

I'll thus convert  the 2 foot strip to 12vDC  with a pair of solid state 13th PL 12v  ballasts I have, which will be comparable in terms of brightness to a LPF  14, 15, 20 watt ballast with 20 watt lamps, but at least it won't flicker!  

The Sears shop light I take the preheat setup out of is going to be rapid start again, this time HPF too like it should be! It is getting a 1979 Advance  Kool Koil  this time, which is starting to suffer  from Degraded Cap Syndrome like often happens to Advance ballasts of this era, but is still useable. If it gets really bad I'll use it to make a 3 foot fixture, I have the lamps already. Said shop light is going on my bedroom ceiling for now I think, until a I get new lamp holders for my circa  1989 Lithonia 8 foot slimline  strip, which I found a new GE  Total Performance Systems ballast for earlier  this month new in box for 30 bucks at the junk store.

Unless...later this week I may be seeing the electrician  friend who is trying to get me a couple 8 foot fixtures, and maybe I'll end up with them.  That's an exciting  possible acquisition.

My four other Metalux  8 foot slimline fixtures are going up in the garage too if all goes as planned. I plan to get to Home Depot and get a case of 75 watt daylight deluxe Altos  for now, since I now have five I footers and potentially  a couple more on the way, although  for  all I know those are High Output!

I plan to install a 2004 Lithonia shop light with  the LOA  type  ballast, which only lights one lamp, above a shelf I'll build in the dining area as an indirect ceiling light, and I'll give it my only CWX  lamp.  That should be interesting when done.  

Above my range's new location and above its current location where a vintage  wood cookstove  I'm getting is going to go, will be a pair of very 1970s  incandescent  fixtures out of a house teardown, the same place the first Sears  shop light  came from.  I plan on using clear halogens in those  to enhance how they look.  Probably Sylvanias.  

Another indirect light is going to be a 1940s  Bakelite  box and fixture I saved, which I plan to fit with a preheat circling adapter and Philips daylight  deluxe lamp.  That one goes in the living room.  

And finally, a vintage, 1940s  PAR38  fixture is going up in there too to highlight a painting, or outside.  Not sure yet.


And plumbing...this wood cookstove is going to mean plumbing changes and moving my water heater.  (It has a water jacket).  That's exciting, goodbye diesel dependency  for hot water! And wiring up the electric element in the tank for when the stove isn't going.  Once I get my big generator going again.

It'll be a really busy winter too.  Once my current job is over   (26 days left  as of today, July 27th and I can hardly  wait  for it to be over, even though I'm making 150 bucks a day, which is  a  good, well  paying  middle  class  job, I don't plan. to quit but certainly don't Intend  to work this same job next year, I've been doing it 3 years now and that's enough, I'm done with it, for a variety of reasons) I'm starting  my  senior  year  of  high  school  and  also trying to apply for a couple jobs close to home.  One is the  school food service worker  job (I will need to obtain  a food handler card from the state of Alaska for that) and another  job opportunity  is working on the maintenance  crew for the City of Port Alexander, I'm trying  to  get  on the  on call list.  I started this process back in May but haven't had the chance to submit my application because first of all  I couldn't locate my birth certificate  and social security card, both  of which I need to prove I'm not  an illegal ailien, and the. because I left for a job away from home LOL.  

I can also think  of another possible job or two  this winter but if nothing else the city  job is pretty  open so I'll probably get it.

And around October I hope to take some time off from school to go do drivers ed in Juneau, since I'm being pressured  by my godparents to know how to drive when I visit in December.  While there I plan to further investigate  the M400A.  I'll take pics of the insides and post them on here and  LG.  I'll probably  bring  one of my 400 watt HPS  lamps to test, and if it works may buy a 250 at Restore or Home Depot.  If not I'll disconnect the ignitor and try a 250w  MV  lamp and see 8 it warms up and cycles.  If still Nada  I'll probably just wire the  socket to the mains and use a large CFL or remote ballast it to 175w  mercury.  But even that is not Necessarily  ideal since the optics will be all wrong, am I right? I suppose I could also remote ballast it to 400 watt MH.  Last time I was in the local Restore  there they  had a 250w  high bay  MH  which might  justify buying a 250w MV lamp to test  the HPS  ballast if the ignitor is bad, since if it still won't work I could gut the high bay for its MV/MH  ballast.  I might  stick it in the fixture if that happens, or I might  remote ballast it leaving the original guts in place for if you  want it Mike, I know you despise other peoples  hack jobs inside cobraheads. I think I'd take it to Fairbanks if I get a place there, I should have city power so can put a large fixture in dusk to dawn use! Probaby lighting a driveway  or backyard.  Driveway is most likely since I'd be commuting in the dark in the Winter  and it'd be nice to have a light outside where I park  so I can see to warm up my vehicle, shovel snow, and load and unload junk.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on July 27, 2015, 06:52:25 PM
Welcome back Andy lol.

Yeah I remember you mentioning that wacky supermarket lol.

Too bad about the scrap dumpster. :(

Yeah the 1971 Advance Kool-Koil ballast in my Sears shoplite is suffering from a degrading capacitor too. Once the lamps come on it's fine though so in theory I suppose it would last best if left on 24/7 or in an infrequently-switch application. I'm going to convert the Sears shoplight to F48T12/HO though. I ordered the ballast and bought lamps already. Just need the sockets. The socket brackets have SL/HO socket provisions so I figured this fixture is the perfect candidate for an HO conversion to make my first non-bi-pin fluorescent fixture. ;D

Nice! You're developing quite the fleet of 8ft slimline fixtures. 8) 8ft fixtures are too big for me right now but once I get my own place or if I can get one really cheap locally I'll get one. I prefer HO over slimline but for 8ft, the HO tubes use a little too much juice for me lol. That would be 220W for a two lamp HO fixture or 150W for a two lamp SL (not counting ballast losses for either). So for 8ft I'd prefer a SL probably... I'm looking forward to getting my Sear shoplight up and going as an HO unit though. :D

Yeah Sylvania clear halogens are really good lamps. Incandescent/halogen lamps seem to be Sylvania's "specialty". GE's specialty seems to be fluorescent lamps. Sylvania makes good HID lamps. Philips is mediocre at best lol. Ah cool that you have a summer job too! I have a summer job at Electric Boat, which manufactures the US Navy's submarines. I'm in the electrical department, so I lay out studs, run cables, and install panels (panels are prewired). We install the lights too, but they come preassembled with the lamps installed and already wired to a cord with a bracket installed on the back, so we just bolt the light up and connect the cord to the junction box and a different electrical department (915; I'm 903) does the actual hook-up. The nuclear reactor gets installed in Groton, CT. I'm paid $14.14 an hour before taxes, so that works out to $113.12 per day. My weekly check is $425 after taxes, which the gross weekly earnings at $565.60 since i work a full 40 hours per week (6:30AM to 3PM Monday-Friday, 11:45-12:15 unpaid lunch).


Ahh the M-400A. ;D If the 400W HPS doesn't light, leave the ignitor connected since that would mean the ignitor is dead anyway so no need to disable it. If it doesn't light with a 250W MV either then it's probably not 120V. I wouldn't suspect a bad ballast unless the coils are visibly charred or darkened in one particular area. My guess is the fixture is probably fine and came from an intersection upgrade since those 80s HPS fixtures are like Deuces. ;)

I think if the fixture lights with a 250W MV, you MIGHT be able to just run the 250W merc off the HPS ballast. I'd check with the people at LG though since I don't know anything about what goes on behind the curtain when it comes to ballasts, other than they magically alter line voltage to what the lamp requires lol. Yeah a CFL or 175W merc would mess up the optics but if you were to mount the light, it would likely be 15ft or less, in which case the optics are useless anyway. My lights in my backyard just light a thin strip of grass at 8ft (deck) and 9ft (shed) off the ground. Aside from the lamp shape and positioning, fixture mou-nting height is a huge component in distribution too. The lower the light is, the more concentrated the light will be. I find at 8-9ft, cobraheads ate too concentrated.

Well, it's your light so I can't tell you what to do with it or how to use it but if your serious about making a trip to the east coast and trading the fixture with me then I'd prefer you to keep it as original as possible lol. :P ;D Since it's a Powr/Door fixture, you wouldn't be able to change the ballast without totally destroying the wiring (or unless you had an OEM replacement ballast), but depending on the socket bracket style, it should be easy enough to remove the existing wires going to the lamp socket and run your own from a remote ballast. I believe most GE sockets use screw terminals on the back. They did up to a certain point but IDK when they stopped. Now the leads are integral on the newer models, so in that case you may have to splice (cringe, lol).

Yeah the M-400A is a nice light. It would certainly light the area well. No worries if you decide you want to keep it, BTW. After all, it is your light (well, your godparents). 250W HPS is very bright! like being under the sun! I have an ITT 250W HPS from a 1980s Model 13 but the ballast isn't in a fixture.

BTW, check out my latest two additions on LG from a local Craigslist ad! A 1950s F30T8 preheat fixture with the original 1952 Lustra lamp and the Sears shoplight with the original 70s Westy F40/CWs.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on July 27, 2015, 09:20:17 PM
Quote from: GEsoftwhite100watts
a Universal 2 lamp 14, 15, 20 watt LPF  currently in a Lithonia 2 foot strip.  I think if I shunt it for  one lamp and use a 4 foot lamp it's electrically the same  so it should  do
Yep that should work just fine :) (as would a F30)


------------------
Been awhile since I've last checked in here :-\\


------------------
In the past couple weeks or so I've been doing some cleaning & moving stuff & lights around.
I had various F40 & F32 lights stashed in random places around the house (pretty much where I could find space & they were out of the way/out of sight)... On the weekend I built some shelves, and now a good part of those lights (53 of them :o ) resided in the crawlspace. I had a bunch of random pieces of wood/particle-board/plywood/etc that I'd been storing for years...now some of it resides in the firewood pile. (same place the frame of a couch went after I demo'ed it .lol. )
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on July 29, 2015, 11:56:36 PM
Yeah I wI'll give  it a test and post the  results!

Wow  53 of them?! And  I thought I had more lights than I knew  what  to do  with?

Mike, yeah it  was pretty  hilarious  shopping  there! But very pleasant as well.

I may ask about the scrap dumpster  again in person.

Does this 1971 Advance make lamps flicker like they're  rectifying  until  they are  warmed up?

Mine, from. 1979, does that but I need to try 34 watt lamps and see if they are any better in that regard.

What brand of ballast and lamps are you getting?

I know how big and  cumbersome  they can be but I'd still suggest getting a slimline from HD  or Lowe's even a cheap, modern electronic ballasted one, just to have.

I get paid 150 per day flat rate but only 100 of that is up front.  Taxes  will be high though since as far as the W4  is concerned I am self employed...although in reality I do have a boss.

Ha! It might see a road trip from Templeton, CA to Fairbanks, AK in the bed of a Deuce! And maybe even lighting a driveway with a Deuce  parked there each night. Not sure about  the MV  on HPS  though.

Got a free chest freezer today.   The things you find with the free sign in the parking lot LOL.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on July 30, 2015, 03:26:14 PM
It does the dim flicker at first before it ramps up enough "umph" to start the lamps but once it starts the lamps it's like any other ballast. Plenty of light too. Just like my Universal ballast in the '73 shoplight, but the Advance has more of a delayed reaction.

It's a Power Lighting Bonusline ballast. They bought out Valmont's ballast line, which was bought from GE. So Technically it's a GE Bonusline lol.

Nah I don't want an 8ft fixture until I get my own place. And if I can't find one by then it wouldn't really upset me any.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on July 30, 2015, 10:33:59 PM
Yeah, 8 footers are way to hard to find a place to store so I only bought the HO one that I installed in the garage. I do have several NOS 8ft HO and SL ballasts lying around though.


Speaking of magnetic F48HO ballasts, there's two different types. There's the type that's rated to up to 7ft lamps which has a higher OCV and will instant start F48 lamps. The other type has a lower OCV and is designed for 18" to 48" lamps. These have a lower OCV so the lamps have that rapid start startup.

I believe yours is the type with the lower OCV.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on July 31, 2015, 04:01:17 AM
Yeah mine is rated for F48T12HOs and F36T12HOs, but nothing below that.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on July 31, 2015, 03:04:00 PM
I wonder what lamp EOL  would be like on the smaller version? Maybe not all that violent, just dim glowing instead of orange flashing and vacuum loss?

Bought some Western Family (Feit) 23w  6500K  spirals last night.  Very blue and bright! Perfect for me.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on July 31, 2015, 03:37:56 PM
Quote from: GEsoftwhite100watts
Wow  53 of them?! And  I thought I had more lights than I knew  what  to do  with?
Yep 53... thats not all, but is the majority of the 4-footers :shock: I didn't even know I had that many til collecting them up & putting them away .lol.
Then ofcourse there's the half-dozen 8-footers..plus the few various shorter ones 3',2',etc, and a couple 6-footers too...

I wouldn't be surprised if I have 100+ 4-foot lamps ... allot to me, but still nothing in comparison to some of the guys on LG.


Quote
Mike, yeah it  was pretty  hilarious  shopping  there! But very pleasant as well.
I've seen stores with random mixes of lamps in their fixtures (but usually its truly random, the colors spread throughout the store) .. always looks crappy when places do that.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 01, 2015, 02:19:16 AM
Yeah I have about 60 4 foot lamps I think.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 02, 2015, 09:54:08 AM
Wow! I have maybe 40 F40T12s at the most. I have a lot of F20T12s though, mostly due to that NOS case of 30 Sylvania /WW lamps lol.

BTW, going to pick up those eight fixtures in about an hour! :D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on August 03, 2015, 12:32:35 AM
Wow indeed lol. I never did a full count but I think I have around 20 F40T12s, including vintage and odd colours. As for F32T8s I think I have around the same but mainly because I got a case a few years ago at Restore as spares since most of my permanently installed fixtures are T8. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 03, 2015, 12:40:01 AM
Fun stuff! Nothing beats picking up new fixtures! At least you have a car, I've walked multiple blocks with 8ft  slimline strip before!

How did the pickup go? What are the guts? Any near or unusual lamps? I saw at least one old Philips, probably  a 34w  EconOWatt  one. At least two are Sears shoplights  like mine, in both generations.  I now grab everything  magnetic and T12  I can find.  Even cheap LPF  rapid start shop lights and basket wraps.

OK, since you do marine wiring now do you ever encounter anything vintage? I assume not since you do stuff like new submarines.  

I totally thought  of  you  today  though: A new acquaintance  is living on, well actally moving out and off of, this old wooden tugboat.  Been passing by this thing for about 7 years now on a somewhat frequent basis, especially during  the  last three summers, it's right on the edge of the harbor  system here in Sitka, AK.  Totally early 1940s! You would have loved the vintage electrical that was all still there.  Lots of vintage incandescent, well some of them subject to corkscrew infestation, vapor tights.  Many missing globes but the remaining ones are thick glass, much nicer than modern units.  ALL solid brass, like my circa 1940  vapor tight marine fixture is.  Vintage braided  metal cable powering them.  Vintage panels but many are a rats nest now, and  still live and powered.  

Also lots of vintage portholes, doors, door hardware, and the like.  Nice liveaboard  actually.  3 wood stoves, so it would never insure LOL.  One being a vintage wood cookstove.  

Sadly she is living on life support, literally living on her bilge pumps, Probaby hasn't been hauled out in decades and is pretty rotten at the waterline, water is literally  streaming in.  Just got bad this week actually, and the people living there are renters...and the owner lives in Philadelphia and is doing nothing about it so far, despite being notified.  In fact the guy was actually calling the owner while we were there, it was getting worse while we were there!  I went with a couple  other Co workers, one a ship wright and the other a film photographer. We crawled around down in the engine room with flashlights, trying to locate a leak but could not find it.  Engine room is a toxic mess of ancient diesel, old paint  cans, etc. And scary wiring, if it doesn't sink it could burn just as easily.  

It was one of those if I had the money to burn  and the life to devote I would do something kind of moments.  It would be a neat restoration, though we're trying to get out from under an old wood boat that needs help as it is already. ONE is more than enough.

I wished the people moving off best luck, with their move and the future of the boat as well, it would be nice to see it stay around.

I have two spare F20T12s, a few spare F15T8s, two F30T12s  for  a future project, and not enough F96T12s  to go around as it is, though that will hopefully change in the next few weeks or months, I might treat myself to a case after my final payday.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Solanaceae on August 03, 2015, 03:38:59 PM
How about propane and propane accessories?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 03, 2015, 06:02:54 PM
Well, turns out I actually have a total of 70 F40T12s! (exactly 70, including those in use). A lot more than I thought! For T8s, I have around four or five F15T8s, five F17T8s, and six F32T8s, not including six that I have for use in other places.

I got three three lamp shoplights (SIMKAR brand with crappy resonant start "ballasts") which consist of a industrial reflector with plastic endcaps fitted onto it. They actually look pretty cool but the crappy quality is very apparent. I got an Electrapak shoplight with a sketchy looking open core ballast that I tossed, and the two Sears-looking shoplights had 1982 Bench-lite ballasts. I didn't even bother testing the electrapak or Bench-Lite fixtures. I just snipped off the leads, saved them, and tossed the ballasts. I made out big time with F40T12 lamps though. Eight Sylvania F40/CWP lamps from the three lamp fixtures (one was missing a lamp) and then I got a Sears F40/CW blackender near EOL (but works fine), a silver-ended Westy that's like new, and Sylvania F40/CW lifeline that's like new, and a 1991 Philips F34/CW Econ-o-watt that works and has little end darkening but has the "mold spots" on the lamp.

I don't deal with any vintage marine stuff, but the building I work in is from the 1940s, so PLENTY of vintage lighting and other stuff inside the building. With the lighting, it seems like they replaced certain incandescent industrial fixtures with fluorescents and HIDs and left most of the remaining incandescents installed, and probably still powered, though with long-dead bulbs. There's a circuit breaker panel with a PC socket and PC installed INSIDE the building in a hallway. The PC window is taped up. My only guess is that they're using the PC for its surge protection. The PC looks like a 70s Fisher Pierce. I was very tempted to snag it but it would disconnect whatever it was powering. I unfortunately can't take any pictures without getting fired and criminally processed as a traitor to the US Navy though. :o The US Navy subs have been nuclear as far back as the 60s so no diesel fumes here lol. The old WWII subs were diesel though. The baseball-sized reactor aboard the ship can power it for 50 years!

I have four vintage F30T12/CW Sylvania lifelines, NOS, but no modern spares. I'll have to go buy one when the one I have in use finally dies.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on August 03, 2015, 07:56:00 PM
I've got 60+ 2-foot lamps, maybe 20 3-foot, and probably 20-30 18-inch'ers
I think I have 50-ish 8-foot lamps too (shocked its that many!),  a mix of T12 HO & slimline, and a few T8slimline
Then a couple dozen 6-footers - mix of slimline, HO, & bi-pin T8
Thinking about it I probably have 30-ish 5-footers (mostly T8)
...I think I have way too much 'stuff' .lol.

Ofcourse there's a reason my username is xmaslightguy.. that 'collection' eclipses the fluorescent in sheer numbers.


Quote from: GEsoftwhite100watts
  I now grab everything  magnetic and T12  I can find.  Even cheap LPF  rapid start shop lights and basket wraps. 
Due to how much I see that I have, I pretty much pass on any old shoplights/etc I see in garage-sales/and what not .. really would need to be something special (or free ofcourse :) )
 I have a pile of old used F40T12 RS ballasts (mostly LPF) sitting around,  stuff I'll never use now.
LOL if you were in Colorado I'd make a deal on those.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 05, 2015, 11:21:23 AM
Yeah I have  many  more tubes  installed in use, of all sizes.  I have lots of spare 22w  preheat circular lamps, as well as a couple spare PL13  lamps.  Two spare 175w  MV  lamps, two spare 175w  MHs, many 400 watt MH  lamps, even a few 1000w  ones I've never lit.  And a few 1000w and 400w  HAS lamps.

And too many  regular Incandescents  and  CFLs to list...LOL.

Post  pics of the Westy  lamp! I'm curious  to see the etch and endcaps, showing the pin insulators.  That will help me to ID the date and  factory.

Oldest bulb I saw there was a 75w  GE  from the 90s, or early 00s.  All were newish, within the last few years.  I have since been driving by it twice daily on my way in and out of town every day and it's not pumping  and looks high in the water  which seems like a good sign. I might look this winter and see if it's still here.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on August 05, 2015, 01:32:34 PM
I did a partial count of my collection and I realized that I have 25 F40T12s and 31 F32T8s. I also have around 15 F48 HO and VHO lamps and I think around 20 F20T12s. Not sure about the other sizes as I haven't counted them yet. I'd say around 2/3rds of the T8s are in use and around 1/4 of the T12s are in use. Most of the T12s did get installed in a fixture but I don't consider them in use since they're mostly floating fixtures that I have wired up to a cord. Pretty much the only F40 fixtures I have installed is a 2 lamp wrap, a single lamp industrial and the preheater I got from Mike. I don't have enough ceiling space in my garage to install the CGE preheat turret or the Benjamin preheater.

As for HID I think I have mostly 100w, 175w, annd 400w mercs. I do have all the other wattages except 700w and 2kW but I only one or two at most of the other wattages. Also have a bunch of MH and HPS but I haven't really counted them aside from the 5 50w HPS lamps I bought for some reason (I don't even have a ballast for them lol) . I only have 18w LPS lamps and I think I have around 4-5 total. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 05, 2015, 05:13:03 PM
I have three electronic circline adapters and several 5W and 13W PL adapters. None are in use. I have four F40T12s in use, two F3412s in use, one F30T12 in use, and three F32T8s in use (and three F17T8s in use, but that fixture will remain permanently in the basement when I move out. Any other fixtures I have in use are coming with me when I move out (well, they will remain until I get suitable replacements).

I have a stockpile of over 100 incandescent lamps, mostly in 60W and 100W but a few 40W and 75W too. I don't have all the exact numbers on my HID lamps offhand, though I have four 50W HPS lamps (two coated 80s Sylvanias), four 70W HPS (all clear), two 100W HPS (all clear), several 150W HPS lamps (one coated), two or three 250W HPS, about four 400W HPS, three NOS 175W MH lamps, two 250W MH, one 400W MH (all MH lamps are Sylvania), A couple 70W PSMH medium base lamps, one 320W PSMH, around a dozen 350W PSMH lamps (all MH and PSMH lamps are clear except one 70W), a few 400W MV lamps (one clear), one 250W MV lamp (coated), several 175W MV lamps (one clear), and a few 100W (one clear). So I have a decent number of HID lamps. I have at least one fixture for every lamp type/wattage I have, except 350W PSMH (well, they're 277V) and 175 & 400W MH (I have been able to light them on MV ballasts in the past but it takes a few dozen tries via flicking the surge protector switch fast until the arc strikes lol).

I've been pretty bad with pictures lately since I have NO time at all with work lol. The endcaps are Norelco, with the Philips shape and GE style raccoon eye pin insulators. Ah looks like the boat is in good-ish shape then, at least salvageable.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 07, 2015, 03:52:54 PM
my circline adapters are all preheat .  And I also have a preheat PL13 adapter.  but I have an electronic PL fixture...with a preheat lamp...that lights of America dusk to dawn jar light.

at home i have in use...oh geez...6 F34s...13 F40s...1 PowerTwist 4 footer...2 F20s. ...2 F15T8s...7 F32T8s...one PL13...one FC8T9...one 175w mercury...lots of spiral CFLs...4 LED retro lamps...and 2 incandescents left which will be replaced with CFLs or LEDs or linear fluorescents when they burn out...there actually the only bulbs still in use that were there when we moved in and they are from 2002  at the absolute newest...the house was empty from 2002 until 2010.  One is a 75w Sylvania soft white DoubleLife and the other is a 60w GE soft white with vertical filament...I might take the globe off and date the perfectly preserved etch in a couple weeks when I am there next.   oh and lets not forget the pair of F96 slimline tubes I have in my room lighting my desk...the biggest light in the house since the 175w mercury is outside.

i have also been horrible with pics because of work.

I am preparing for my senior year of high school right now too....figuring out electives and trying to get drivers ed and such. my godparents want me to be able to drive when I go to visit them this winter and right now my dad and I are sort of out of each others lives because of our respective jobs and rapidly changing lifestyles but since I am still a minor its kind of a pain for us to find time to get together and do things like teach me how to drive...so I might try to go to a driver ed school in Juneau.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 07, 2015, 08:25:08 PM
Update for lamps in use: Two F40T12s, two F34T12s, one F30T12, three F32T8, two F48T12/HOs (installed the Sears shoplight), one F20T12, two F8T5s, one F14T12 (I forgot about the utility room undercabinet lights and the F14 over my bed).

I go the GE HO lamps and sockets from Aaron today. All work and survived shipping! Pics to come at a later date. I have a three-day weekend so I can hopefully catch up on pics.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 08, 2015, 12:38:05 AM
nice...where did you put the Sears light?

Soon to be...18 F40s...and 10 F96T12s as well as 2 F30T12s.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 08, 2015, 10:05:18 AM
I installed it in place of the utility room F40/RS 1973 therm-o-matic shoplight. The F40/RS shoplight will probably go out into storage in the shed...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 08, 2015, 11:39:53 AM
I bet its a lot brighter in there now...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 08, 2015, 11:51:04 AM
Yeah it's pretty bright now! Can you imagine the room lit by a 90W Sylvania SuperSaver incandescent? It must have been REALLY dim in there. Must've been really dim with the F17T8 wrap too. It's been so long I don't remember the brightness except for the 2X F40 fixture lol. The laundry room originally had a 90W SuperSaver too and then we put in a giant three-way CFL, running at 27 or 32 watts. Then I installed a F17T8 wrap and then the single lamp F40T12 preheat fixture, then the two-lamp 1950 preheater that was moved to the garage and self destructed out there, and then there's the three lamp F32T8 troffer with the F30T12 undercabinet light mounted on the wall. So those two rooms are VERY bright now compared to what they were before. The garage is much brighter too, since I replaced one of the two 90W SuperSaver keyless sockets with two 2-lamp F40 fixtures. I kept the other keyless socket though, and plan to keep it in place since the fluorescents would stick down too much if suspended and they could get hit by things when we move stuff on the loft in the back of the garage. I'd rather loose a 100W incandescent over loosing a pair of fluorescent lamps and possibly vintage sockets too.

BTW, I went and bought a case of 12 F32T8s from Lowe's (Sylvania F32T8/835). All work and nice and bright, though pinkish.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on August 08, 2015, 02:17:02 PM
I don't count lamps once they're installed .lol. so those numbers I mentioned are just whats not in a fixture..
Bought a few more 4-footers today (3 T8's & 1 T5) .. all aquarium lamps from a place that was closing.

I went in a Goodwill, and noticed the lighting there was a random mix of F32T8's... 3000k, 3500k, 4100k, 5000k, and 6500k :lol: those daylight/6500k lamps really stand out compared to the rest
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 09, 2015, 10:36:01 AM
Ah my only T5s are preheat ones. Four F4T5s, four F8T5s, and four F13T5s. I noticed I forgot to mention most of those in my last two posts lol. Yeah the 6500K higher CRI T8 lamps are really blue. I got some daylight GE F48T12/HO tubes recently (HOs are all still old-school phosphors) and I like old-school daylight a lot actually! I think newer daylights are too harshly blue. I don't really like old-school cool white very much though. The light is dingy and sorta green! HOs really dim out a lot though. My new CW Sylvania F48/HOs are very very bright but the used GE daylight and CW tubes are only slightly brighter than F40T12s on a full-power RS ballast. I don't know if my HO ballast is full-power though. It's a Power Lighting Products Bonusline ballast. 1.20A IIC. I LOVE my HO fixture though. My first non-bi-pin florescent fixture!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 11, 2015, 02:21:00 PM
I saw your pics...nice score.  never thought Id see the day you would use daylight lamps though LOL.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 11, 2015, 03:14:14 PM
Thanks! Yeah I didn't either since I find the light too harsh most of the time. But the old-school HO daylight looks pretty nice. Still sorta blue for me but it's doable. I kinda like the change from 4100K since the 1973 shoplight always had 40W 4100K lamps.. I've noticed that the newer 6500K is much harsher than the old-school daylight though. The GE SPP65 F32T8s I bought  are more of an electric blue that's almost hard on the eyes, but the old-school daylights aren't as strong of a blue. They're bluish with a touch of green and yellow.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 11, 2015, 04:02:25 PM
Yeah I think I know what you mean even though I am not as familiAR with the old school daylight.   the supermarket with the random mix of daylight and warm white was like that...really blue.  and my 6500 Octrons are Way warmer and greener than the 23w spirals next to them.  granted the T8 lamps are behind vaportight diffuses whereas one of said spirals is in the 1940 marine vaportight minus globe fixture.

you might also like GE SP65 and Deluxe Daylight.  Both those also lit many stores and commercial buildings in the same town that weird supermarket was in.  I sure loved going in those stores though...daylight slimline everywhere.

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 11, 2015, 05:14:33 PM
I think it might be the brightness that's part of the reason I like the daylight HOs so much. I think it's because the lamps are really bright so I think they look good with the daylight color. Could also be because there's no natural light in there, since 6500K looks REALLY blue with natural light in the equation. IMO, 5000K is more of a true "daylight" since at camp, the Sylvania F32T8/850s look pure white with the sun shining. 4100K lamps look yellowish with natural light and 6500K looks bluer. Depending on the application, either 3500K or 5000K works for almost all applications, though 4100K works if you want to play it safe. 2700/3000K and 6500K only work in some applications for me. In most cases I find the light from warm-tone fluorescent tubes (lower kelvin than 3500K) to be yucky lol.

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 11, 2015, 08:32:54 PM
yeah I agree with you...but I still prefer 5000 or 6500 overall.  I really dislike 3000 halophosphor warm white And find 2700 triphosphor too ordinary and boring.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 12, 2015, 03:51:00 PM
What's your thoughts about each color temperature?

Halophosphate warm white: Yuck yuck yuck!
Triphosphor warm white (2700 and 3000K): I don't mind the color too much but still find them pinkish. When in the right application, they can look good.
3500K/WHITE (Halo and tri): I like the color. Some lamps are slightly pinkish but I like the slight warm touch to the light. One of my favorite color temperatures.
4100K/COOL WHITE (halo and tri): Meh. Just the same ol' lol. Don't hate it. Don't love it. It's just the "standard" color.
5000K (halo and tri): I like the color of both but halos tend to have an annoying flicker to them that I do not like and they're usually dim. I absolutely love triphosphor 5000K lamps though. Colors great, no flicker, and they're bright.
Halophosphate 6500K DAYLIGHT: I actually don't mind it much. I didn't think I'd like it but I love my daylight HOs! I don't really like daylight deluxe much though. I find it too harsh of a blue and they seem dimmer too. The CRI is supposed to be better but I don't have an issue with the "normal" daylight's CRI.
Triphosphor 6500K: Kinda harsh for my tastes. Nice and bright and looks good in the right application like an icecream shop (for some reason I always associate daylight lamps with being used inside icecream shops and restaurant kitchens) but not my go-to-lamp.

Basically 3500K and 5000K are my favorites. So far, all the T8s I've used in my replacements/retrofits within the family have been 3500K. One, because the initial lamps I used were 2006 GE SPX35s from school, so I wanted to keep color uniform with additional fixtures/lamps that were installed. Two, 3500K lamps are cheaper than 5000K. Here 3500K and 4100K are the cheapest for /800 series F32T8s and 5000K and 6500K cost another $10 more per case. Third, the family members I have/will be installing the T8s prefer the warmer color over the cooler color. The exception is my mom's step-mom and dad (well my grandpa doesn't care as long as it lights lol) since she likes the bluer daylight bulbs. She said they make her feel full of energy and recharged while she's downstairs in the basement doing laundry or cleaning out the litter boxes lol. So I bought SPP65 lamps just for her. ;)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 12, 2015, 04:35:52 PM
I find 2700K to just too ordinary.  often newer CFLs are rather pinkish for my tastes.  Some are a really warm yellow...especially older models which have a lot of use on them by now.

3000K...halo is ugly but I have a lot of them. Triphosphor 3000K...better but I still don't particularly care for if.

3500K...depends but here again I find it pinkish ordinary and boring.  735 in particular...835 is better in that regard.  Not familiar with halo white though.

Halo CW...OK overall and I like the weird green hue except for the cool white energy saver T12 lamps...those can be really dingy and yellow.  same for Asian F15T8s etc. 741...Ordinary.  841...same.  Halo CWX...ugly and pink.  Sp41...OK but a little pinkish for me.  Sylvania cool white plus...almost too yellow. I like the older pre 2012 Philips cool white plus...it matches with CW.  Philips Home Light Cool...a little purplish but I like it.
not sure about all the new designer high CRI lamps or Philips Cool White Supreme.  GE HL41...too peachy.

5000K...Cfls a little greenish but more natural than 6500K. GE Chroma 50...too pinkish purple...and dim.  I prefer Sylvania Design 50 which is greenish by comparison.  GE SPX50...real nice...you can mistake it for cool white...its bright and clean looking.

5500K...Vita Lite rules...nicest lamp I see with 5500K 91 CRI.

6500K...nice color.  Cfls a little harsh but Sylvania 765 is OK. GESp65...sweet color...my second favorite to vita lite. Philips daylight deluxe...nice but a bit flickery.

another big thing can be ballast factor...underdriven anything can look ugly.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 14, 2015, 10:28:41 PM
Ah interesting takes on the lamp colors. I agree about the warm white (2700K and 3000K) colors, thought I don't find 2700K ordinary. Maybe for CFLs but not linear fluorescents. Yeah CWX is awful and Sylvania CWP is too yellow, agreed. I like SP41 though, with the little experience I have with it. The CX50 by GE is my favorite currenly-made F40T12.

BTW, I removed the first of the three F40T12 WE lights in my grandma's garage. It has a GE Bonusline in it! Haven't checked the age yet. Also grabbed the one from the basement that my grandpa never installed. The one from the basement is painted gray instead of silver like all the other ones. And it has a 1970s Universal ballast with stab-in connectors for the leads on the plunger sockets. Definitely a newer version of the "original" design. Same design but you can visibly tell the silver ones are more robust. Kinda cool how no two are alike so far lol. All the F40 ones are made by Day-Brite lighting. Two of the three F20s were too and the third F20 was made by Pittsburgh Reflector Co. All the F20s had Bonusline ballasts. IDK what the remaining two F40 WEs have for ballasts. The one that was installed with the bonusline ballast has a pretty black label. Must've seen pretty heavy use.

I started disassembling them tonight and will clean them tomorrow or Sunday and get pics. The first replacement light was one of the two Sears shoplights. Installation went pretty smoothly but I had to jury-rig the reflector since as originally held in my screws with acorn nuts but since the fixture was being flush-mounted I had to screw the reflector directly into the ceiling lol. The WE fixture was bolted to three studs, two screws in each stud. Overkill IMO but that was how my grandpa was, making sure everything was nice and secure. I tried to make the Sears light installed on the studs, but only screwed it into two studs, with one screw each. Then the reflector just screws into straight-up drywall. Hopefully it holds... Those sears shoplights were apparently not designed for flush-mounting lol. I had to drill a 7/8" hole where the romex was going to enter since there were no KOs on top, just the ends. The only KO on top was a small one in the center for a cord, but the KO had to be located near the sockets on one end of the fixture to match the old fixture. The whole replacement took around two hours. About 30-40 minutes spent removing the old light. I wasn't entirely sure what to expect for weight so I took the fixture apart as much as I could so it would be as light as possible. Those WE lights are freakin' heavy! Built like tanks. Better than some 40s preheaters IMO! Definitely built to last, but weren't in service more than 20 years though, being removed in the 80s and then reinstalled at my grandparents' and great-grandparents' houses until now, when all seven fixtures will be under one roof.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 15, 2015, 11:43:22 PM
Neat! Removing fixtures can be fun and an ordeal at the same time; I've related the story of removing the circa 1979 (never pulled ballasts to check dates though) Metalux/Gibson fixtures which light my desk as I type.  Those had weird ballast channel covers which took some figuring out.  Those were mounted with drywall toggle bolts, which for once would NOT just fall out of the Sheetrock.  (About two years prior, two identical fixtures in the same room had fallen while maintenance was relamping them). 

1965 Bonusline...Wow! I wonder if it got stuck with 34 watt lamps at one point judging by the toasty label.  Definately has PCBs, so be CAREFUL!  And those 1970s-80s Universals...they are indeed tanks (well, Deuces) in terms of reliability, I have 3 in use.  One only lights one lamp but still has been working like that since May of 2013 without any issues...over two years now already!

Those True Value lamps are probably late 80s or early 90s.  (I'd lean early 90s). What's the electrode design like? Short stems and banding instead of blackening like 'Mainlighter' lamps (and the late 80s ones that weren't called that but had similar features, the 'Mainlighter' was dropped in '85 but I have an '86 GE F40CW with the same banding...how do yours look in terms of age?

I fired up the 1979 Advance ballast for 4' lamps with a pair of F30T12s today to test them since it was the closest thing I had.  It did not "flicker" when cold.  I then tried a pair of GE Mainlighter F40T12 lamps and they were fine.  So I think this one is indeed going in a Sears shoplight and going on my bedroom ceiling.

That reminds me...tonight I should go test that Sylvania Metalarc I got NOS at the junk store tonight in my yardblaster. 

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 16, 2015, 09:42:26 AM
Yeah it was easy to remove the fixture but proved somewhat difficult to install the replacement fixture since it had no mounting holes or KOs and the reflector had no means of being supported since originally it was supported by a screw at each end that held the reflector to the back/top of the ballast channel, so you'd have to unscrew it from the top, which was a no-no in this case since it's being used as a flushmount fixture.

Anyway, turns out the one installed in the garage with the Bonusline ballast was dated to October 1965! The Therm-O-Matic one in the basement is from August 1973. I don't think it ever had ES lamps. Probably just high usage or just a warm-running ballast. My grandparents' garage is not climate controlled (but insulated, mostly for fire reasons, since the garage is connected to the house and right near the property line) so it gets sorta hot in the summer and pretty cold in the winter. It's got a slight buzz to it but the therm-o-matic one with far less use is louder lol. The therm-o-matic is in the shed with the 1973 shoplight but the 1965 one is still in the house, wired up to a cord. I haven't tested to see how hot the ballast gets. I don't think the ballast would be a hazard since it was in regular use up until it was removed. Capacitor-containing ballasts seem a lot like cars. One with frequent use and higher hours is usually a safer bet than one that's rarely used and has low hours. The capacitors can get all cruddy if not used for a long time.

Yeah DetroitTwoStroke on LG said the same thing, probably 90s GEs made right before the 1994 EPACT. The lamps have oval-shaped blackening/banding on one end of each lamp. The other end is clean on both lamps.

I would love to install the Western Electric lights in my room. Big no-no with my parents though lol. Plus I wouldn't want to take down my ceiling fan since I use it nightly. I suppose I could remove the lights on my ceiling fan so it's just a fan and then install fluorescents but my parents wouldn't go for that lol. The "industrial" lights are confined to the basement and garage lol. (Except for the F14T12 strip over my bed, but that's mounted to a shelf, not the wall or ceiling lol). If I found a way to install a fluorescent on my room without drilling holes in the ceiling or wall and without running new romex in my ceiling than my parents would be fine with it.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 16, 2015, 02:47:57 PM
Yeah I am finally going to take the plunge and put holes in my precious drywall job (Which I did most of) in my bedroom for a Sears shoplight or an 8ft slimline.  Granted, my house isn't as "nice" as many are so it doesn't look too bad having random "industrial" fluorescent lights everywhere. 

The Therm-O-Matic...try it for awhile and see if it quiets down after being on for awhile.  One of mine (newer, it lists 35w lamps but not 34w and isn't a 'Matic X) starts loud and raspy like a miniature yardblaster that's been in nightly service for decades, then quiets down to a soft hum.  I think thermal expansion causes that. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 16, 2015, 03:59:01 PM
Ah yeah you gotta go for a big guns, a slimline. ;D My bedroom is 10X9ft so an 8ft would just fit. The ceiling is 8ft off the floor. When you get that M-400A you could mount it in your room and use it in the winter as a super bright and inefficient space heater lol. Should get pretty hot! The MH highbay could do the same thing I guess (or you could remote ballast the M-400A with the MH highbay ballast) 70s & 80s HPS fixtures are the best, especially the GEs. Very well-made fixtures.

The therm-o-matic one is in the shed in storage not but I ran the bonusline one for a while today and the ballast gets moderately warm after a half hour running 40W tubes. It's warmest in the area where the label is the darkest, naturally. The bonusline one is nice and quiet, yet I remember it making a little more noise installed. I'm thinking the other two are bonusline-equipped too since they start up exactly like the one I removed. The Therm-O-Matic one starts differently on a cold start. Can't really describe it but the three in the garage were pretty much in sync with each other and the Therm-O-Matic isn't lol.

For HID ballasts, they get quieter as the lamp warms up but for fluorescents the thermal expansion thing makes sense. I know fluorescent fixtures are loudest in the winter (though sounds are louder in the winter in general since the drier air absorbs less noise). My grandpa's slimlines make a chattering buzz when started in the dead of winter. The ballast buzz is choppy like M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M-M instead of a more constant MMMMMMMM. You's probably know exactly what I'm talking about if you heard them in person but my explanation is poor lol. Once the lamps warm up a little and the 60W ones calm their flickering the ballasts have a more normal hum.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 16, 2015, 07:15:20 PM
LOL I know, right? I actually installed the GE/Universal "Total Performance Systems" ballast I found at the junk store in June in my circa '89 Lithonia 8ft slimline strip and got the stationary non-plunger side all hooked up but am missing a plunger side socket (It was broken anyway, I need a new one).  Since I wasn't directly replacing the ballast and this one is a replacement-only unit with short leads (Original one is that weak Advance which now runs 4' lamps) I used some zip cord for the one side I did hook up as only two wires are needed anyway (Much simpler than rapid start!) but pulled it apart since I'm still not sure about 700-ish OCV on zip cord so if it does flash over and arc I don't want a short.  I still need to hook up the other side, find a plunger side socket somewhere, and stick in a pair of (preferably 75w) lamps.  Then I need to bring home the screw gun and find some TEK screws in the disorganized-from-shuffling-stuff-around mess known as my house.  (Some areas of this place look a lot like member TheUniversalDave on LG's place...a constant work zone.  But I don't care). Then I can install it on the ceiling like it should.  I'm going to use a 1X6 screwed with deck screws into the ceiling joists I think then TEK screw the fixture to that, since I know too many horror stories of fixtures falling when drywall toggle bolts rip through Sheetrock.  Plus, I don't have any of those dangerous excuses for fasteners anyway! So it might even be one of the most "proper" installations I've ever done. 

Wow, 10X9? I know at least in California a bedroom must be 10X11.  I heard this a few years ago but maybe even your 2003-built (Well, framed up in '01 right?) house predates that? Or maybe it was just required in California, or in San Luis Obispo county. (In california).  Mine is like 7X12 so I'm not sure how that works but in terms of square feet it's roughly the same.  (too lazy to do the math right now).  But mine has a sloped ceiling...probably 7ft at the low end (I know in the same room opposite I can't lean an 8ft slimline fixture up against the low wall) but is probably like 10-11 feet at the high side. 

I had used the 400w MH highbay as a space heater last winter when it got really cold and honestly it wasn't that impressive, but I'm sure it did contribute.  What will really heat up a room though is those stupid 2X500w linear quartz halogen worklights...but I'd take my 400w MH as a work light any day although I can't have any power interruptions. 

Did you use the lamps it came with for testing? Yeah sounds can change as temperature changes.  I have an '84 .65a Universal in a Sears shoplight with 40w warm white GE Mainlighter lamps in the garage and it's louder until it warms up. 

The chattering buzz? That sounds like my old Advance slimline I had in use when it was cooler than 50 degrees, with 60w lamps.  (If it lit at all!) I don't think my other ones do that but I should test it sometime other than testing them for 30 seconds when I first got them, with music blaring in the same room.  But my godfather's woodworking shop (Which the M-400A is leaning against the exterior of in that pic) can scare the cr@p out of you if you don't know what to expect when turning on six 8 foot slimlines with 60w lamps on a freezing night...the "thump" when turning on a slimline becomes a BANGHUM-M-M-M-M-M and the light quality is like halophosphate cool white firelight...constantly flickering.  Sometimes they never truly warm up, but they do get to the point the walls aren't flickering anymore...but constantly striate in the winter.  (Where temps rarely get below 20F even on coldest nights)

I could disagree.  My 400w MH is quieter at first I swear, then gets louder as the lamp warms up and brightens.  But my 175w MV/MH yardblaster is the other way around...quieting down as it warms up.  As I recall from like four years ago now, putting a KAW on it showed it's wattage increases as it warms up though. (With a MV lamp, I should borrow a KAW and try a MH).

Since you mention the M-400A...it looks like I will not be going down there this winter since I'm so dang busy...probably next June at the earliest.  But I will try and get pics of the insides when I do.  (And maybe you could walk me through wiring it up if you don't mind). Maybe that following winter (2016-2017) I'll try to get it up to Fairbanks though if I have a place there; the fixture you compared to a Deuce may see many thousands of miles from Templeton, CA to Fairbanks, AK in the back of a '71 Deuce. 

Speaking of that, I will hopefully be finding out more about that truck in the near future...so we'll see.  At this point I am lagging way behind on even knowing how to drive a CAR so we'll see how feasible this is actually going to be...but hopefully I can figure something out LOL.  Hopefully this winter I can still get some practical experience with one someone has so I know what I am getting into.  (At this rate that may be the first vehicle I actually drive LOL).   
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 16, 2015, 10:23:52 PM
Going to submit a job application tomorrow! I'm excited!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 17, 2015, 09:00:09 PM
So some remodeling on the exterior of the house necessitated removing my yardblaster today.  More specifically, having a plastic wall within less than a foot of a refractorless 175w MV lamp would have been a major FIRE HAZARD to say the least.  Plus it was in a stupid spot anyway, right next to a door and under an eve (so the photocell almost NEVER turned the light off except on very bright and sunny late afternoons) and was only like 7 feet off the ground.  I never liked having it there.  So now it sits on my workbench, plugged in and providing light as I type with a Westpointe 175w /DX cleartop lamp.  I tried the Sylvania Metalarc I got in June and it does NOT do ANYTHING on the HX-NPF MV ballast in said yardblaster. Bummer.  So I really have no use for it at all...I bought it hoping it might work since a (well used, ironically enough!) GE I have does work fine, or at least did when I tried it about three years ago.  Want the Sylvania, Mike? I might give it to you at some point since I have NO use for it at all. 

I shot a video of the /DX cleartop warming up which I intend to put on YouTube.  I'm not sure I like this lamp for indoor lighting, though, which is what I will be using it for until an outbuilding gets built where I can feasibly mount it.  It's just too pinkish and weird, though a clear lamp would be way worse.  I've heard these lamps tend to be really pinkish anyway...so I'm tempted to go and buy a GE or Sylvania and see if it's any better.  (Or trade somewhere for a /C or something else that looks a little better indoors.  But paper fluoresces just like a blacklight, which is kind of neat.  I don't ever remember a clear lamp ever doing that, but I might just try anyway.

I plan to put this light up on the wall in my shop/office, up high at the peak of the ceiling, where the wall is still T-111 from before the addition this room is was built, so it will almost look like it predates the addition, and just continued to serve as an indoor light!

And I applied for, and got, that job.  And plan to be applying for another in the next few weeks.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 18, 2015, 01:10:01 PM
This morning I undertook the rainy-day project (It's pouring right now) of reinstalling the yardblaster, indoors in my office/shop.  As planned, it's mounted to what was once an exterior wall, still with T-111 as the wall finish, so if it weren't still powered by an extension cord it could look like it predates the room it is in!

I tried getting some pics, but as usual pics of lit lights from far off don't turn out very well. I'll post them anyway.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 18, 2015, 06:02:16 PM
AGH! too much reading! :P  :o

Technically it's considered a 10 X 10 room but it's really 9.5 X 10. They round up with the measurements. Our rooms are pretty close in size, but I think mine might have slightly more cubic footage. Since your ceiling slopes from 7ft high to 10ft, I used 8.5 as the ceiling height. Our rooms are both between 700 and 775 cubic feet.

Ah yeah TheUniversalDave has taken some video tours of his house and I have to say it's pretty scary looking lol. Cords draped all over the place, the rooms are all cluttered (that's not really as big of a deal with me since I have pack-rat family members too lol) but I cringe whenever he shows off his latest hack job.  I mean can you at least take SOME effort and put into your electrical work?:8) He could at least run the extension cords above the drop ceiling and not make it look like a rat's nest. I could understand if it was a real ceiling but he's got cords drapes all over the place and could utilize the drop ceiling to conceal them! Not that I condone wiring your house up with extension cords, but I do understand "doing it right" costs money, and I don't always "do it right" either, but I attempt to make it as close as I can every time, even if it's temporary. Running the cables over the tiles to make it less of an eye sore only costs a few extra minutes and makes the job look a little less hillbilly-ish... What bugs me more than anything is that he seems to take pride in his hack jobs, posting all sorta of pics of them, as if he's PROUD that his house is a fire hazard. Yet he appears to put little to no effort into it at all. Whatever. He's only putting himself and his family at risk because god forbid there was a fire, the insurance company won't give his parents a red cent because the house was a fire hazard to begin with.

One of my 175W MV street lights will raise the room temperature a degree or two every half hour or hour (I forget how fast the temperature rose lol) but it's definitely not something you notice unless you either monitor the temperature or leave the room and come back later lol. With a higher ceiling all the heat might rise up to the top too. Is your room insulated? If not that doesn't help either. My house has pretty good insulation. I loose most of my heat (or cold air in the summer) through my windows so if it gets warm in the summer in my room I just pull down my shade so the heat transferred through the window is trapped between the window and shade. It helps a little, but not a miracle worker lol. Never tried it in the winter though since I'm usually too warm in the winter, closing my heat vent and sometimes cracking a window (but being careful to make sure my parents don't find out lol). I ended up cracking my window a lot this past winter since it was so cold (so my parents kept the heat cranking) and I didn't get sick all winter! The fresh air is nice.

What I'd generally do is open my windows about three inches, go sit on the throne and take a shower, brush my teeth, and then come back (usually a 40 minute ordeal or so) and my room would be cooled down to around 64 degrees (from like 75 or so). Then I'd shut my window and go to bed. My door would be shut when I'd do this and I'd stick the rug in front of my door in the door jam and force the door closed with the rug there so that there is tension, preventing the door from rattling because of any wind from outside or whatever. And the rug also helped keep the cold from drifting out under the door into the hallway since if my parents felt a cold draft coming from under my door, they would probably go into my room and find the windows open lol. Not sure what the big deal is since my heat vent is shut so it's not like they're wasting energy but they get all pissed if I open my windows with the heat on lol. I've never opened my windows with the AC on but I'd imagine they wouldn't like that either. Actually, if I'm home alone all day I'll turn the AC down to about 70 degrees (from 74 degrees) and the house would cool down to 68 (which is actually cold in the summer! lol) and then turn the dial back up to 74 when someone pulled into the driveway. My thermostat usually keeps the house about two degrees cooler than what you set it for.

Hmm that's weird. All my HID lights start off loud and then quiet down as the lamp warms up. That's a trend that's consistent with all of my HIDs. The ballast shouldn't get louder. Yep, the wattage should increase as the lamp warms up. Start-up current on a NPF HID is much higher than operating current though IIRC. Doesn't really seem to make sense since wattage gets higher, so current should get higher but I'm pretty sure it actually goes down as the lamp warms up. You bet I'll walk you through wiring it up. ;) The only connections you will likely have to make are at the terminal block, just two wires unless it's a 240V unit with a 120V PC socket, but I think that was more of a local thing here and pretty uncommon. Most HPS lights with PC sockets are 120V for whatever reason. 240V would actually be cheaper for 200-400W HPS since you could just use a choke ballast (the main reason they used 240V for MV fixtures here and the reason 120V is used for low-wattage HPS). I guess 120V just became the standard voltage for street lighting. A lot of places used 120V lighting in the MV days too because the incandescents were 120V, but here, I think the mercs installed in the 60s replaced series-wired incandescents. A lot of the 120V incandescents remained until the 90s HPS changeout or they just added the second hot wire for the 240V merc.

Ah yeah I have to find a part-time job too since my summer job terminates this Friday (21st).

Yeah MHs are stubborn on MV ballasts, but MH lamps actually get easier to start as they age. That's why a lot of times new MH lamps do nothing for a new seconds, even on a MH ballast until they're broken in since they're just too hard to start. The GE's been broken in so it starts easily. You never know, you could find a 175W MH ballast. I don't have a 175W MH ballast either and I already have three NOS 175W Sylvanias but if you're going to toss it, I'll take it off your hands if you'd like. Personally I'd hang onto it if I were you. BTW, you can probably light it on the yardblaster if you run it for about 20-30 seconds on the 400W MH highbay. Shut the highbay off and then put the lamp right into the yardblaster and turn it on. It might work a little better than trying a cold lamp.

Outbuilding? Like a shed or maybe a workshop separate from the house? Sounds cool! Yeah DX lamps are usually a little pink when new, but the color tends to die off after it's broken in. Sylvania lamps hold their pink light though. GE lamps loose their pink color, though their lamps have reliability issues. Not sure about Philips. My only unused Philips merc is a 100W clear (and my only other philips merc period is a well-used 400W /DX that I've only lit once; I don't remember the exact tinge) /C lamps are nice. I only have one, a 400W Sylvania cleartop from 1967. I wish I had some 175W and maybe 100W /Cs. There's some 80s Sylvania 100W /C lamps but they're like $20+ each. A little ridiculous for a lamp that costs $10 normally, and the 80s 100W MV Sylvanias were really not that great anyways. Sylvania actually made the worst 100W MVs in the 70s and 80s but Philips took that title by the late 90s (at which point Sylvania had left the MV lamp business anyway, outsourcing lamps from GE and Philips before establishing relations in China).

Ah I bet the yardblaster is pretty cool in your office/shop. I wish I had an unfinished basement and had a workbench and stuff. I'd install a fluorescent over the work bench and probably create a street light display on either side of the workbench (with a stick of 1-1/4" EMT conduit like I did in my room sans the box base). The EMT poles would be attached to 4X4s used to support the workbench and then I'd have three switches near the workbench: one for each street light and one for the fluorescent over the bench.

Instead of having a basement workshop, my Utopian idea is to have a separate small building for a workshop. I would like it to have a bathroom, which could be used by guests during a party or something (and for me when in the workshop). There would be an overhead garage door towards the left side of the long side of the building and a walk-in door towards the right on the same side and another walk-in door on the short side adjacent to the walk-in door. The door on the same side as the garage door would open up to a hallway, where the bathroom would be the first door on the right. Said hallway and the bathroom would have sheetrock walls, linoleum tile floor, and a grid ceiling. They'd have recessed cans or recessed squares with PL13 adapters in them. The hallway would continue straight and then end. At the end on the left, another door, which opens into the hallway, would lead to the large shop area. That area would just be for whatever. It would have a workbench an shelves and stuff and a bunch of switches for the lights and stuff. There would be a small walk-accessible loft above the bathroom, hallway, and lawn/garden room (haven't gotten to that yet) where I'd store all my lamps and stuff. There would be a staircase along the back of the main shop room leading up to the loft, which will be open, with a sort of balcony overlooking the shop. It would all be just rough framing, with plywood floors, stair treads made of stock, etc. The loft would likely have a sloped ceiling. The lawn/garden room I mentioned earlier would be accessible from the outside via the side door I mentioned at the beginning. Said door would have a ramp leading up to it. That room would be for the fertilizer for the lawn, grass seed, storage of the lawn mower, and maybe construction shovels, rakes, etc. The ramp would allow the lawn mower to exit the building, since the walk-in doors will be a step up from the ground to limit any water intrusion. The building would have a concrete foundation and floor. In front of the building where the main walk-in door is (where the hallway is) will be a patio with a carport style overhang over it for barbecuing and whatnot. I'd likely install my two vaportight fixtures there.

Quite a vision I have there lol. Not entirely realistic money-wise, but something to dream about lol. And on top of that I want to have a few utility poles around the perimeter of my lawn with street lights on each so I better become an engineer or win the lottery or get some large inheritance from a relative I knew nothing about lol. My vision is not really something realistic (it would look pretty ridiculous having a building and a bunch of utility poles in the back yard, but if I bought a nice rural piece of land it would work fine. I'm sure there are far weirder homes out in the sticks near me that look totally normal from the street lol)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on August 18, 2015, 08:04:29 PM
I have no problems or issues with running lights on extension cords. (and if you don't overload the cord it should be safe..my feeling there is go with 50% of the cord's rated load)
Ofcourse anything on an extension cord I would also consider to be a temporary install.

In the summer I consider mid 80's to be perfect sleeping temperature (but when its warm like that I don't have a sheet or anything else). Once it gets above 90, then its just too hot for sleeping good.

Quite a vision on the shed/shop  there Mike.

My 'dream house' itself would be some oversized beast with multiple bedrooms, plenty of space, and things like a theater-ish room for watching TV & Movies, an indoor pool in the basement, greenhouse room (that might make a good top story instead of having a plain roof) (such a house would be totally overkill for one person who will always be single...but it is just a daydream afterall)
Then in the yard there'd be what'd basically amount to a smaller house as a 'shop'. I'd want all the walls/ceilings/etc finished/enclosed (not necessarily with drywall...plywood would be fine too, maybe even better...and outdoor siding on the inside-garage walls,so when you need to wash the floor it wouldn't matter if the walls get wet)
I'd also want 120v,240v,277v (maybe 347,480 too)...oh and deff 240v/50hz as well
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on August 18, 2015, 08:26:32 PM
How I feel on 'standard' lamp colors (I'm talking real fluorescents only. not CFL's)
2600K/Reveal I like it
2750K/Incandescent-Fluorescent Rare, but awesome color (except that its dim)
3000K/Warm-White Always liked it, probably because it was uncommon when I was young.
3500K/White BORING .. need I say more, these things are everywhere
4100K/Cool-White Used th feel like the above ^^ as thats how it was, for some reason 3500 has displaced even CW as the most common/boring lamp there is.
5000K/Natural-Sunshine Most 5000k's are just too dim for my liking..now take a Philips Ultralume(best 5000k F40 I've ever seen) or some of the better(brighter) T8's/T5's then Nice!
5500K/Vita-Lite  Nice color, but too dim
6500K/Daylight Always been a favorite (but I'd never put it in a kitchen, or etc (bedroom would be ok))
7500K/-- Nice color, but not very common
8000K/Sky-White  Nice color, but not very common
---
Then ofcourse I love colored lamps/gro-lux/aquarium-lamps/etc .. (but any of these look weird for lighting a normal room .lol. )
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 18, 2015, 10:32:13 PM
I've never seen those 'reveal' lamps in person.  Nor Sylvania 'Incandescent Fluorescent'
I actually feel like in mass F32T8 installations that were originally all 3500K I see a lot of spot-relamping with 4100K!

Ha, this whole room I'm in is powered by SJTW extension cord wire on the surface of the walls.   Tacky but afterthought.  And surely not up to code, when I did this three years ago I know for a fact I didn't ground anything either.  I'd never do that sort of thing on anything but my own stuff though. 

And lights are also wired up as total hack jobs in here.  Originally all this was going to be temporary, but then I ended up owning the house so I think I'm going to slowly fix things, but it already works so I'm too lazy to fix it LOL.

I'd love to find an older house with hardwood floors, old windows, etc.  if not for this place. 

My house may be just as bad in some places, but I'm pretty sure one of his (the one with the extension cord below the drop ceiling) is a rental, so he probably can't really permanently install anything, and I think he plans to move after high school.  If you think that's bad though then you would have really enjoyed a neighbor's house here; half the house was powered by a 2-prong appliance cord spliced into Romex, there were a bunch of open splices in the pantry where everything originated, there was a 12v battery bank and inverter in there (It's off grid), with batteries a few feet from the range in the kitchen.  The overhead lights downstairs were all ceramic JB pullchain sockets fed by Romex done over unfinished Sheetrock held up by clinched-over nails, and boxes for the lights made out of two 1X4 blocks with romex passing between them.  The addition to the house at least had real boxes for the most part but was still far from inspection-passing.  Nobody lives there now though. 

Here it's the opposite: I like the house (except bedroom) really warm in the winter (In my office/shop on the second floor it's often almost 80 degrees!) and my dad opens windows trying to stay cool.  I sleep with my window open this time of year, though, and a fan blowing directly on me.  No A/C in this house and it's really not needed except for a few really hot weeks/days in the summer, but if we had window units I'd use them.  Our house in Atascadero, CA had A/C that didn't work and it would have been too expensive to run anyway (mom was unemployed much of the time, etc) so we just did without, using ceiling fans for the most part and I had an oscillating fan in my room, but it did get pretty dang hot at times.   Especially sleeping on the third floor.  And the loft (4th floor) got REALLY toasty that time of year to say the least.  I have pictures of the cats and dog all stretched out on the cool linoleum floor in the kitchen on days like that.  But we were a 40 minute drive from the beach where it'd be like 60 instead of 100. 

And A/C in the car? Forget that too. Ironically our vehicle here in Alaska has working A/C and we do actually use it sometimes.  And I may be doing without A/C and minimal heat while driving too, I may be doing many thousands of miles a year, in -40F winters and 90-105F summers, in a '71 Deuce and a half; those have no A/C and pretty minimal heat.  So commuting is going to be really hot/cold LOL.   

The yardblaster mainly is loud while the lamp flickers wildly when first powered up, then settles down to it's normal sound. 

As for MHs, I have also read the opposite: people use them on 175w HX-NPF MV ballasts in yardblaster lights like mine and they don't work for more than, say, a year in dusk-to-dawn use because lamps become harder to start.  But I can imagine the scenario you are describing, too.  Maybe I'll try that with mine, but if not I'll hold on to it until I either get a ballast or give it to you...I have plenty of stuff laying around I have no ballasts or lamps for that I'll probably NEVER use...and my collection space is limited. 

A greenhouse/woodshed/place for the generator that's not right next to the house, in the backyard at the terminus of my "driveway".  So the yardblaster would work well there.  I'd like it behind the house anyway. I want my place to look "decent" from the street, but heck, I may even have to stuff a Deuce in my (mostly hidden from view) backyard for a few months at some point.  Many people don't even know how big my backyard is and are amazed when they actually stop in and visit. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 19, 2015, 03:45:51 PM
My LOA jelly-jar plastic dusk to dawn PL13 light crapped out (already?!) so I stuck up a Fake-Westinghouse GU24 dusk-to-dawn fixture.  It looks much nicer but is nowhere near as sensitive to ambient light (Read: cloudy, overcast days make it stay on if a dark cloud passes overhead).  So I plan to add another photocell (I have one) in a more exposed place. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 19, 2015, 04:18:06 PM
Ick! My room can't be hotter than 70 degrees or I won't sleep well. 66-68 degrees is my ideal sleeping temperature in my room. Of course, it's extremely humid here. Colorado air is pretty dry, right? I suppose that's why you don't mind the higher temperatures (or maybe you just like the heat lol) but New England hot weather is muggy and sticky. We call it "The air you can wear" lol.

Yeah I've never seen any of the rare/uncommon lamp colors. Just the standard ones. Yep, when T8s first because mainstream here in the late 90s-early 2000s, virtually all the lamps were 3500K, however now almost all new T8 lamps I see are 4100K in larger stores/buildings except WalMart, who uses SPX50 GEs.

Wow Andy, your house gets pretty hot! I was built for the cold I guess lol. I would be one miserable sonofabitch if I didn't have air conditioning lol. I've always had it so I don't know how to live without it lol. If I didn't have AC I would definitely have a pool and just float in it all day until it got dark out lol. I'm pretty much a furnace when I'm sleeping so it has to be cool in my room or else I don't sleep. On camping trips in the dead of winter, it gets pretty freakin' cold being outside at night in a tent, but once I crawl into my sleeping bag, my body heat alone heats up the sleeping bag and keeps me warm lol. Though if I wake up in the middle of the night having to pee, I end up being REALLY cold when I wake up. Other than having to use the bathroom, I'll sleep through the night if it's cool enough. If it's warm I end up waking up multiple times uncomfortable, if I fall asleep at all. At home, when I get up in the morning my bed is sometimes hot from me sleeping in it!

In the winter my hands and feet are usually numb (not really frost-bitten or cold, but I just sorta loose feeling in them) and my ears and nose get really cold outside but I myself only need a light sweatshirt jacket down to 20 degrees if it's sunny. If it's cloudy or dark, I'm usually cold in a sweatshirt jacket if it's below 40 degrees. I wear short sleeved T-shirts year-round. I only wear long sleeves to work since they're required. I just put my jacket on if I get cold since I find long sleeves too much of a nuisance. I'm constantly rolling them up at work when there's no supervisors around since I hate long sleeves lol. I do wear pants in the winter though (and at work) but they're just jeans, nothing fuzzy and warm lol. I actually wear shorts until it gets below 40 for a high lol. But in the heat forget it. I can't stand it lol. A dry heat doesn't bother me as much but we only get one or two dry hot days a year. Usually it's muggy to the point where you have sweat pouring off you from just sitting down. When I go to bed I just wear pajama shorts and sleep under the comforter (no sheets, just the comforter, even in the summer) since I can't sleep well with just a sheet on. For some reason I need a thick blanket over me lol. Probably part of the reason why I need it cool to sleep. In the dead of winter though I sleep with socks on in addition to the pajama shorts. I never wear long-pant pajamas or a shirt to bed though since it's uncomfortable. However on camping trips with my boyscout troop, I actually sleep fully dressed (minus my shoes, belt, and glasses). I don't really know why I do that, but I always have so I'm just used to it. I can sleep fully clothed in a sleeping bag but cannot sleep that way in my own bed. I'm really finicky when it comes to sleeping lol. But when I do sleep I can easily sleep 10+ hours.

Yeah the mercury vapor ballasts are especially noisy for the first few seconds, but after the arc strikes, it actually will get slightly quieter as the lamp warms up. You pretty much have to put your ear up to the fixture and listen carefully as the noise calms down though. It's more noticeable if the ballast is louder in general. With my 60s M-250R it's very noticeable since you can hear that thing across the yard for the first minute it's on and then it quiets down. You can still hear it across the yard but it's less loud lol. You can actually hear it inside with the windows shut if you stand by the window in my parents room (which faces the back yard) which is weird since the fixture isn't THAT loud, and when you open the window it's not any louder, just less muffled.

Hmm any MHs I've seen start better after they've been used a while. The newer MHs at work actually take longer to restrike after a power outage then the more used MH lamps! MHs drop a lot of lumens as they age though. HPS is the only HID that doesn't suffer from a huge loss in lumens. PSMH is better at maintaining lumens than probe start MH though. Not positive about on MV ballasts, but on Mh ballast, the lamps start easier when used for a while. 400W MH on a 400W MV reactor ballast works the best out of all the MH-on-MV scenarios. The inductive kick from the reactor ballast helps kick-start the lamp and for whatever reason 400W seems to be the magic wattage lol. I think it's because the 400W MV lamps are a little more electrically similar to 400W MHs or vice versa than with other wattages.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 19, 2015, 06:19:44 PM
My BEDROOM has to be cool but the rest of the house can be plenty warm.  Nothing like my honorary grandfather's old house, though: diesel cookstove blazing away even in the middle of summer. 

Here it can get muggy and the bugs can be really annoying.  But dry heat (or cold!) is nowhere near as bad.  Fairbanks, AK is way different at 45-50F than Southeast AK is at that temperature...up there you can be standing outside in a sunny day in a short-sleeve T-shirt but here there's no way you'd find me doing that. 

Shoot, at one point I did look at buying a NOS window A/C unit on Craigslist, in the summer, in Alaska, but not for cooling a bedroom: for cooling a walk-in pantry down to refrigerator temp.  I never did actually buy it though.

With my yardblaster you used to be able to hear it humming away on MSW inverter electricity through the wall, and now I can hear it multiple rooms away indoors if it's quiet.  My house conducts noise and harmonics and vibrations really well...it probably vibrates the whole wall at just the right frequency.  (Also if you slam any one door in this house the whole place shakes.  Same for running up/down stairs.  Same for turning the stereo up really loud).


My hands/feet get painful when it's around freezing, and they REALLY hurt once they start to warm up again. 

I also can't stand sleeping with just a sheet, I have to have a comforter, etc.  But this time of year I have to sleep with a fan as a result!

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on August 19, 2015, 08:30:16 PM
Reveal is like a deeper form of warm-white ..

Incandescent Fluorescent is a totally unique color - when lit it gives a nice vintage look to things - allot like incandescent.

Allot of times I don't bother with grounds on plugged-in lights, 2-wire cords are allot easier to deal with.
I'll admit to having some tacky looking & hack-jobs inplace too ..
Now anything thats permanently wired in, that's a different story, it is done correctly  :)

Quote from: GEsoftwhite100watts
My LOA jelly-jar plastic dusk to dawn PL13 light crapped out (already?!)
Not surprising... it is a LOA afterall :lol:


Quote from: Mike
Colorado air is pretty dry, right? I suppose that's why you don't mind the higher temperatures (or maybe you just like the heat lol)
Yep, 'normal' humidity here is less than 20% . Basically once you're out of the mountains (ie: the eastern half of the state) its considered semi-arid (ie: semi-desert).
I kinda like the fact that in summer when sleeping I don't need a blanket or sheet  (or anything else for that matter)
When its above 90 sometimes I put a fan on me, but I hate wind/airflow ... so its a tradeoff, deal with the heat, or the 'wind'

Come winter ofcourse thats all different, deff gets too cool in the bedroom for such, I need to break out the sheet & a couple blankets & stuff.
 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 20, 2015, 03:28:27 PM
Ah I see. I like the whole house to be around 65-70 degrees, 68 max in my room. The basement is always much cooler than upstairs since with our house, (raised ranch) the staircase has open walls so the air can freely circulate between upstairs and downstairs, which is good for rotating out stale air but convection also happens since all the heat rises upstairs and all the cool air sinks. In the winter the utility room is about just as warm as upstairs though since the furnace is in there. The rest of the basement probably gets down to 60 or so in the winter. I'd love to have my bedroom in the basement since it's always nice and cool down there and since it's finished and we use a dehumidifier it doesn't have that old basement smell to it, which is nice. Even the unfinished rooms don't have that musty smell, partly because it's a new house (only 12 years old) and it's a raised ranch, so it's not as far underground so it's got less of a cave atmosphere lol.

If I have a spare grounded plug I'll use it unless it's a small light like an undercabinet light but if it's just a temporary thing I'll use an ungrounded cord if that's all I have. With street lights though, ground is a must with me since if something were to happen, the igniter from a HPS or the OCV of a MH would probably kill me. A MV might not be too bad depending what shorts but I always make sure to ground my HIDs. Fluorescents I ground if I have a grounded cable. I used to tie the neutral to the fixture when I didn't have a ground but that's actually worse than just leaving it ungrounded since if an appliance grounded by a neutral ever develops a fault, it would "infect" the other appliances on the circuit and you could be shocked through another appliance if it's grounded with the neutral too. So I disconnected the neutral from any fixture bodies after learning that.

Yeah LOA made some pretty cool fixture designs in the 80s and 90s but the quality was never there since they always used electronic or semi-electronic ballasts, even in their MV and HPS fixtures. They were ahead of their time though, using electronic HID ballasts in the 80s. They were just cheap open-board circuit boards though, not encapsulated, so they'd fry easily in really humid climates. And they were sensitive to line voltage spikes since there was no surge protection in them. And they made almost everything out of plastic. Some of their fixtures did last a long time though from what I've gathered on GoL and LG. Some members have LOA fixtures that have survived 20+ years. They typically came with Philips lamps back in the 80s but I think by the 90s sometime (probably same time they did with fluorescent fixtures) they started supplying LOA branded lamps.

20% humidity! Wow the average relative humidity is between 40% and 92%! The next seven days is looking pretty consistent compared to how some weeks turn out. For interest's sake here's a weather summary for today through next Thursday:

Today: High temperature of 83F with a light wind; 79% humidity with no rain; Overcast in the morning and sunny in the afternoon with big puffy clouds
Friday 8/21: Predicted high of approximately 80F with wind averaging around 7MPH; 85% humidity with the chance of a scattered thunderstorms
Saturday 8/22: Predicted high of approximately 82F with wind averaging around 5MPH; 78% humidity with rain and possibly thunderstorms
Sunday 8/23: Predicted high of approximately 81F with avg wind of 8MPH; 78% humidity with scattered thunderstorms for the better part of the day
Monday 8/24: Predicted high of approximately 82F with avg wind of 7MPH; 78% humidity with scattered thunderstorms for most of the day again
Tuesday 8/25: Predicted high of approximately 82F with avg wind of 10MPH; 70% humidity with 49% chance of rain or thunderstorms
Wednesday 8/26: Predicted high of approximately 82F with avg wind of 9MPH; 58% humidity and partly cloudy
Thursday 8/27: Predicted high of approximately 82F with avg wind of 9MPH; 49% humidity and clear skies

Looks like next Wednesday and especially Thursday are looking nice, though I'm sure it will become less and less appealing as the date approaches, as that's always the way. Looks nice and then it ends up being a degree or two hotter every day in the forecast and a little more muggy and next thing you know the 82F 49% humidity turns into 85F 78% humidity by the time the date actually approaches. The weathermen like to make the distant days look nicer and slowly make them less nice until they arrive lol. There's actually only a few "perfect" days a year (quotes since everyone has their own ideal of perfect weather). These days usually occur between March and April and late September to early November. The only bad thing is that's allergy season. :(
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 20, 2015, 10:33:10 PM
Yeah, I need to find both Reveal and Incandescent Fluorescent, just to have.  I prefer daylight lamps though anyway. 

My bathroom gets pretty cold (like 55F) on subfreezing days/nights, which I don't like for that room.  Granted, the floor isn't insulated and there's two 3X3 single-pane windows in there. 

I think all but literally one of the rapid start lights in my house are ungrounded.  And this time of year when it's humid, yes I do experience starting issues as a result! Especially with my Universal HPF full power ballasts.  I really should ground all those...

Yeah, the quality was never there but their fixtures were/are pretty neat for their time (and even now).  Never had issues with voltage spikes frying them but it did indeed run on modified sine wave inverter electricity quite a bit.  But I've run other electronic ballasts just fine on MSW without issues so I doubt that was it, rather my humid climate/rain on average 300 days a year.  Same for magnetic; they work fine though LPF ones don't do nearly as well, running dimmer and flickering noticeably.  So I basically consider it urban legend that you can't run a fluorescent light on a modified sine wave inverter, since I've been doing it for years now with everything from spiral CFLs to small preheat fluorescents to F40/RS to an 8 foot slimline!

As for the neutral thing, another bad thing that could happen (I think but maybe I'm wrong) is that if somewhere ahead of that appliance the hot and neutral are reversed, you could be shocked.  A fairly modern house like yours should be fine in that regard, but a house like mine is a place where I wouldn't want to do that.  I tested all the outlets I could find when we first moved in and first powered the (off grid) house up again, with one of those neon testers with flying leads you stick into an outlet and as I recall all the grounds were hooked up (hot to ground made the tester light up) but I also remember being able to go from the neutral side to ground  and have it light up...at least I think so, this was five years ago now.  So really no way to check polarity without one of those fancier testers, which I don't have.  Whoever did most of the wiring (In fact I think I know who it was) did a decent job, though I still know of things I doubt would pass a "real" inspection by a building inspector.  Most of my wiring is, I'd say, post-1985.  (White Essex brand Romex, Eagle devices, Carlon blue plastic boxes).  The house was built at literally ten different times as of now, and originally there was/still is black 1970s NM romex, though I think most of the meal boxes except for the bathroom light are now gone.  (I think of those little tiny older metal boxes as nothing but a shock hazard should something arc and weld itself to the box.  Granted, plastic can catch fire).  There's one area with some really weird, unidentified stuff going on though where it wouldn't surprise me if something was backwards somewhere...I have no idea where some of those wires go. 

As of now, the house has original black romex from the 70s, though not much anymore that's used, white "Exxex" Romex, some other, newer white stuff from 2000-2002-ish, and finally some (salvaged from a house teardown but it was still pretty new) yellow "Southwire" stuff.  Most wiring devices are Eagle, with a few Cooper and Leviton and possibly others thrown in here and there.  Wirenuts...mostly red winged ones, then smaller orange ones (that we've used in stuff we've added/modified) and finally some (salvaged with the yellow cable) Ideal push-in connectors.  And there's some SJTW extension cord wire in a few places too, wired to actual devices/boxes.  (All done by me years ago). 

So yeah, a total mishmash! Only things missing are 1950s "rope" type cloth/asbestos Romex, BX cable, aluminum (Thankfully! That stuff is so dangerous is misused, and my house is originally old enough but as far as I know there is none) and of course knob and tube. 

I am not afraid of knob and tube, unlike many people, as long as it's in good shape and not overloaded I think it should be just fine.  Same with that '50s cloth/asbestos stuff.  Only thing I might get rid of is aluminum, or at least inspect it to make sure it's used right. 


FYI in case you ever come across it, aluminum is usually found in lower-cost houses built in the 1960s and 70s.  In "quick and dirty" scenarios like tract housing, it was cheaper.  But it has a higher resistance than copper, so you need to use the next size up (like with copper #14 can handle 15 amps, but with aluminum you'd need #12 for 15A).  Since this wasn't often realized, this can be an issue.  Another big issue is compatibility with switches, receptacles, etc: they weren't designed with aluminum in mind.  If you see "CU only" it means copper only.   If you see CU-AL then aluminum should be fine, at least from what I understand.   A common (and terrible) method of fixing the incompatibility is "pigtailing" in boxes, where you splice a piece of copper wire on to the aluminum wire, then hook the copper up to the switch/receptacle.  But that has issues, too: wirenut incompatibility, more connections to overheat and fail, etc.  So be careful in older houses!  I bet the black stuff powering the preheat F40 shoplights in your aunt and uncle's basement could very well be aluminum, since that's a '60s-'70s setup. 

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 21, 2015, 08:39:55 PM
Yep the humidity is probably what killed it off. Possibly a component on the circuit board rusted out or something. With a preheat PL lamp, all you need to run it is a choke, which will practically never fail, and probably cheaper to make than an electronic circuitboard.

Yep if polarity is reversed somewhere that can be an issue for sure! Reversed polarity is usually an issue with non-grounded outlets if anything since a lot of times I see them wired either way in houses. Grounded outlets usually have correct polarity but I'm sure there are DIY'ers who have reversed them. In my grandma's/aunt's/late-grandpa's house, the outlets are ungrounded and the polarity seems to be random. Most are correct though. The outlets are polarized but whoever installed them didn't take that into account when wiring them. With most things it doesn't matter anyway.

Ah my house doesn't have any modified/not-original wiring except for the outlets I added in the garage. I used BX cable to wire that, which comes with stranded 14 gauge single conductors inside (black, white, green; you could add a red wire if you wanted to use it for 240V but it only comes with three). My house has those blue carlon boxes too, though there are two boxes that are metal since they're 4-gang. I don't think plastic ones come bigger than three in the big box stores. I think the probably bought four single gang metal ones and joined them together and made one big one. Switches, outlets, and covers are all Leviton. The wire nuts are just standard yellow and orange ones and the grounds are crimped together instead of wirenutted.

Yep I've heard all about aluminum wiring. It's not bad if used with the next size up and with proper aluminum-rated connectors like you said. Not only incompatibility with the wirenuts, but the wires themselves are dissimilar metals and can react with each other. They make special terminal block things that are used to make copper-aluminum splices. I have a few of them in my gallery; they're purple. They're filled with a white grease that allows the aluminum and copper to be used together without reacting. At least that's my understanding.

Yeah my aunt and uncle are having the basement wiring entirely gutted out, all the pull-chains, outlets, and everything ripped out an replaced since there's a lot of wiring that was replaced and just left up disconnected. I don't talk to them much lately since they're so busy we never see or hear from them. Who knows if the lights are even still up. They might have tossed them. :-\ :( Who knows...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 21, 2015, 09:23:09 PM
Yeah and the fact that spot DOES get hit with windblown rain.  Yeah when the (Also POS IMO) replacement light's stupid GU24 base spiral CFL craps out I think I'm modifying a regular "jelly jar" porch light with a button PC and sticking in a  PL13 lamp in a preheat adapter. (It lacks a globe anyway and sits in storage)  The new light...IDK what you'd call the style but it's nowhere as good in terms of optics for being 13w too like the PL13 it replaced.

Well, best luck on getting the remaining fixtures.  I thought the purple wirenuts were also problematic, but maybe not?

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 22, 2015, 09:47:41 AM
Didn't the LOA have a missing jar/globe? It's too bad you've not had good luck with the light in that location.

Thanks. Yeah I hope I can get them. Especially because the more interesting ones were the ones I had not yet gotten. They're not wirenuts. It's a rectangular terminal block with three terminals and a cover that goes over the terminals to totally cover any exposed metal parts.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 22, 2015, 12:42:37 PM
No it had a jar.  It was just an electronic, plastic piece of junk I got for free, that's all.

The replacement for the current fixture may also be an old marine vaportight I'd just stick a spiral CFL in.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 22, 2015, 03:20:02 PM
Oh for some reason I thought the jar was missing. The vaportight sounds cool. Is that the one missing the globe or a different one?

BTW, I went to my grandpa's autobody shop today. That T8 fixture I installed in the bathroom is still going strong! Advance ballast and Alto II lamps haven't quit yet lol. However, I did some relamping at the shop today. One F96T12 slimline lamp (replaced it with an NOS 60W cool white Philips Alto since I didn't feel like ripping open a 2-pack of CWS 75W lamps and only use one) and two of his troffers each had two lamps out.

The one in the hallway just needed one lamp to work again. A GE RESIDENTIAL LIGHT was to blame. The Sylvania 40W WORKSHOP CWP that was also out still works fine. Replacement lamp was a lightly used Philips 5000K non-alto he had laying around. The other troffer was in his office. That one had the 5000K non-alto originally. The other lamp was a dead Service Long Life Guaranteed F40CW. I popped new lamps in and they didn't light so the ballast is dead. The lamps just flickered extremely dimly. So I left the outer lamps missing and just kept the working outer lamps going.

The next time I'm at my grandpa's and grandma's house, I'll retrofit the basement troffer over the computer to F32T8 and use one of the ballasts I remove to replace the dead one at his shop. The dead ballast at his shop is a ValMiser IIRC.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 22, 2015, 09:33:19 PM
It's not the circa 1940 globeless one, (Although I might try to remove that before selling out) but it does have a globe, and has still seen the high seas...perfect for my nautical-themed house.  I had the bizarre idea to stick a green spiral CFL I have in there...that thing is intense to say the least and might be interesting outdoors. Now, if I had a red one on the other side of the house I'd have Port and Starboard!

What was the DEAD slimline lamp? You're like me, slightly OCD about opening new packaging on NOS lamps.  Was the 60w Alto just laying around? I'm really curious how long that one lasts...those are like THE worst 8ft lamps ever made from what I have seen in person and on LG/GOL/YT.  Does it have the "Shield" logo? If so it dates I think 2006 or 2007.

Service Long Life Guaranteed: Philips! Do you remember the letter/number datecode?  You could also just refit the troffer with the bad ballast with a 4-lamp T8 ballast, but keep the working ballast still inside as a backup, just disconnected.  Try the one-lamp shunt trick with the bad one if you take it home with you. 

And, just let me reiterate: If he sells out, grab one of those HOs! And a slimline if you can.

So today I undertook the (surprisingly massive!) task of going through my collection and organizing it.  Well, a good chunk of it that lives in the "attic" (supposed to be a master bedroom, has a great view, but has exposed studs and was never finished LOL). All organized neatly, all my lamps/ballasts/fixtures take up less than half of what's framed in with 2X4 studs to obviously be a clothes closet...but never was.  I took lots of pictures, since I kept finding stuff I had never photographed and posted, and will post them in the coming days if I can.  I filled up a whole box of lamps I don't want or have no ballast/use for...several 1000w Sylvania MetalArc lamps, a SunLite 50w HPS, and the Sylvania 175w Metalarc.  Sometime (I can't do it right now) if you want the 175w MH and 50w HPS you can have them in a trade or something if you want. 

The thing I went OCD on though, (And I laughed at myself for doing this) was putting era-appropriate GE bulbs in the '90s 'Lightstyles for Lifestyles' GE boxes I have...

So I'm now sorta organized down to:

-A box of nothing-specials: a bunch of 12vDC and 120vAC spiral CFLs in various color temps, a preheat PL13 adapter and spare lamps for it, a bunch of 12v and 120v GLS lamps in various wattages/finishes, etc.  That fills up a whole cardboard box by itself.

-Another flat-rate Priority Mail box filled to the brim with loose rare/unusual/vintage bulbs, I think all incandescent. 

-About three cases worth of F40s/F34s of various brands/colors/vintages/etc.

-A box of specialty or in-package vintage incandescents, and some colored lamps, both incan and CFL and LED.

-A whole box of preheat CFLs and a few other odds and ends

-A couple boxes of various HID lamps

-Three Metalux 8ft slimline fixtures

-Parts for an (incomplete, missing lampholder bracket but I think I can make one) Sears F40/RS shoplight.

-A couple 2ft fixtures

-And a box of C7/C9 Christmas lights...yes, my house will always be lit by those energy-sucking beasts.

-And other odds and ends.

I still have only JUST started on the office/shop...there's a ton of "junk" in here too I want to organize and/or get rid of. 

I threw out a shoplight husk and a wraparound sans ballast too (Well, they're currently laying in the driveway after I tossed them out the second story window, but they're on the way out).  I'm also going to toss a few more dead, ballastless shoplights and other incomplete, modern-ish fixtures.  Stuff I'll never use and is just taking up space...

When I chucked the wraparound I tried it's diffuser on a Lithonia unit in my garage that had a broken lens but it wouldn't fit.  I hate cracked/broken wrap lenses so I just took it off and will be throwing both away...they sit just outside the "garage door" along with a bunch of cardboard I need to burn...I've been doing quite a bit of cleaning/organizing in the week or so I've been back home.  I plan  to take out the good sheet metal screws from the endplates though.  Already removed the ballast bolts.

Just curious, when you went to the autobody shop, was it to get work done on your own car? Or just visiting? Or both?


Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on August 22, 2015, 09:59:36 PM
A few weeks ago I went through & re-organized all my fluorescent lamps.
and Xmas lights too ... I have way too much stuff & really need to sell a bunch of it off :lol:

This morning I went to a small meetup of Colorado members from some xmas-light forums... the sorta technology & lights out now is simply awesome! (far too expensive though)

I saw a couple little outdoor LOA PL-13 fixtures at the ReStore today .. kinda neat looking, but I passed on that junk.  And even though the last thing I need is anymore lights, I picked up an interesting 2x2 foot 6-lamp troffer-beast (pic is on GOL)

Oh and  this fixture  (http://www.galleryoflights.org/mb/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-19506) got mounted outside in the yard..
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 22, 2015, 10:14:00 PM
Sounds like it was fun! Are most people doing 100% LED lights nowadays?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on August 22, 2015, 10:40:00 PM
In that group... yep, and not only LED, but RGB LED, and every 'bulb' individually controllable!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 23, 2015, 09:56:58 AM
Dead lamp was a Sylvania 60W CWX SuperSaver, so the cool white 60W Alto is still an improvement lol. Even in 80 degrees the lamp started with striations lol. They quickly disappeared though. The Sylvania had a 7 for the first number in the date code, so it's either from 2007 or 1997. I think it might be 1997 since it's not EcoLogic but that seems way too long since the lamp runs pretty much every day. I was USA-made though, not Canadian (unless only the small lamps were Canadian...)

There was nothing OCD about why I chose the single lamp over opening the twin pack. I just was too lazy to pull out a two-pack, open it up, and put one lamp back when there was already a single lamp in there lol. I also found three F96T12 slimline lamps in his car parts storage closet. Two Feit Electric lamps and one pre-alto Philips cool white from the 90s. They all looked like they might be new or lightly used.

LOL He's got a good number of those 60W Philips Altos left in service so they must not be that bad, though I noticed that I'm changing a lot less slimlines since I had removed a good number of the 60W lamps since they're just too horribly dim in the winter. I personally think his shop is under lit but it's enough light to see by and he doesn't really complain too much about it. He said he'd like the shop to be brighter but he said he'll let "the next guy" worry about it lol. Speaking of HOs, the HO I fixed by the entrance to the garage/shop room is very blackened on the ends (the lamps that is). The Philips Alto HOs look like they're either getting close to the end or maybe they just blacken early on and continue working? I installed the lamps a couple or a few years ago. 8ft lamps sure can be a little tricky to install/remove in a suspended fixture! HOs especially since they have to be aligned with the sockets Slimlines just have a round knob on the end so they go in easier than the oval HO ends, at least in my opinion.

Whether I install the T8 ballast at his shop or at his house, both fixtures have one dead/on-its-way-out ballast and one working one so I'd end up putting the working ballast from the T8-converted fixture in the left-alone T8 fixture. I'd rather see the one at the house become T8 instead of at the shop because the one at the house is on its own switch. I don't mind mixing T8 and T12 in a room as long as they're on separate switches. I'd also rather end up with an Advance ballast over a ValMiser ballast. Those things have tacky looking labels, making the ballasts look junky. They're descendants of GE Bonusline ballasts, but I honestly never cared for GE RS  ballasts very much. They seem to run hot and fail with leaking tar; something I do not like one bit.

I would love the HO and one of the slimlines. ;D But I just don't have the room! Don't have any fixtures to replace them with either. Who knows how long 8ft lamps will be around too. They seem to be getting less and less common.

Ah organized the collection? 8) I pretty much keep my collection neat (well, everything is in boxes, but the inside of the boxes themselves are not necessarily neat lol). Happy parents mean happy Mike lol. They don't care how much stuff I have as long as I find a place to stash it or hide it from plain sight. I have some lights laying across the furring strips on the ceiling along the wall in the utility room (since the wall for the utility room/garage falls between two studs and the furring strips are the mounting surface for the drywall, so the strips extend into the utility room to the first joist from the wall (joists run parallel to the aforementioned wall) My silver single lamp F40 strip is up there with my recently-acquired 1952 F30T8 preheat strip from Craigslist. Both have lamps and cords and starters but are not in use. They're a real pain to get up there too so I plan to leave them up there unless I have to take them down.

Sure, if you don't want the 1000 or 175W metalarcs I can see if I can trade something for them or pay you for them. If the HPS is mogul base I'll take it but I don't really like medium base HIDs, except for PSMH since the low wattage PSMHs are only commonly available in medium base.

Wow you have a pretty large collection! I've never made an official count of my collection but everything has it's storage place so it's still small enough for me to know if something has gone missing. I do forget I have some smaller stuff that I discover going through boxes and I find stuff I thought I lost a long time ago while searching through a shelf and remember that I was going to use the discovered item but never got around to it so it just sat there all that time lol.

I was at the shop since my high-beams and hazards (four-way flashers if you have no idea what hazards are lol) but he can't figure out what's wrong with them.

Ah we still use incandescent mini-lights. They don't make long enough LED sets at a reasonable price. We buy the really long sets so we don't need as many. I go through every set and replace the dead bulbs before I put them up. Any half-dead sets I'll go through and wiggle each bulb and if it doesn't revive I pull the working bulbs from the lit half and toss the set and we get another set. We keep it all low-cost (I guess except for the electric bill lol) The lights come on at dusk and shut off around 11:00 to 11:30PM. Then they come back on between 5 and 6AM and shut off at dawn We have an electromechanical timer in the utility room that I set to come on at 5 or 6AM and stay on all day and shut off at 11 or 11:30PM. Then I have a homemade gizmo (it's a duplex outlet controlled by a twistlock photocell with a cord that plugs into the house's outlet) that shuts the lights off at dawn and turns them on at night.

We used to just set the timer from when it got dark out to 11 or 11:30 but sunset changes so much between Thanksgiving and New Years so it was really annoying, so I incorporated my "dusk-to-dawn" outlet contraption into the set-up so the on-time automatically adjusts to the change in sunset. I use my 1992 baby blue Ripley SunSwitch photocell since I found it offers the best sensitivity. The lights come on just before it gets dark and the light from the Christmas lights isn't enough to trigger it to shut off. The turn-off time in the morning is a little late IMO though (the sun rises in front of the house, so you'd think turn-off time would be pretty reasonable but the PC doesn't switch off the lights for quite a few minutes after sunrise (normally PCs shut lights off a little before sunrise). Since it's mounted down low it's not as sensitive as it would be if it were on a street light but it works good for what it has to do. It's my favorite recently-made photocell. ;D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 23, 2015, 12:17:43 PM
I'm really thinking '07 too.  I wonder where they came from, then? (Since they predate 2012 rules and regs they seem like a specialty lamp). 
Wow, he has a lot of random lamps you can use (or save if you get an 8 footer yourself!).  The Feit might be Sylvania...is it 75w? Cool White? Is the Philips true F96T12/CW from before EPACT? If you can photograph etches and endcaps I might be able to positively ID them for you. 

I'm thinking they may be near the end but I've seen really blackened GE HOs with the old school "800" etch that were really blackened and still working.  So I'm really not entirely sure.  And yeah, they can be really hard to install/remove from suspended fixtures!

Yeah, for whatever reason I also think of those ValMisers as being...inferior.  Dunno why. 

Not so much happy dad here, though I get bizarre looks when I bring some stuff home LOL...especially more F40s.  The one he really despises right now though is the yardblaster indoors, being on most of the time with a relatively noisy ballast.... And the light I added outside.  And the Sears shoplight in the "garage" over the chest freezer, also on most of the time. 

I see them here at True Value, but only 95w GE Watt-Misers.  Similarly, the only F96 slimline lamps to be had around here are True Value branded GE HL41 60w lamps.  Closest place I could get 75w slimlines or 110w HOs would be Home Depot I believe.  And the nearest one is like 280 miles away, in Juneau, AK.

The HPS is medium base.  The 175w Metalarc is mogul of course.  Both new in box/sleeve. 

Oh geez, I wish I could have my Christmas lights set up like that.  I need a "real" photocell anyway, so I can run more than a 32w load of stuff. 

I hate insensitive photocells, I have several. In fact, all of mine are except for the now in the trash can LOA jar light, which was decently sensitive. 

The flashers, which you turn on in a roadside emergency, etc...all 4 turn signal lights? I know what those are.  Ever been in situations where your car had to use them? I have some good car trouble stories.

The only thing I dislike about the LED Christmas lights is the cheap "half wave" units which have an annoying flicker IMO.  I actually like that icy blue of the cool white LEDs when used outside or on a tree.  If I had all white/clear mini lights I'd use THOSE on the tree though instead of multicolored.  Granted, I may not even decorate for Christmas this year since I might not be home anyway. 





Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 23, 2015, 03:30:57 PM
He bought them from somewhere. He's owned the shop since the 70s and I think he put in most if not all of the slimlines himself over the years (well, maybe not exactly himself, but they weren't there before him AFAIK). Most of the slimlines are 90s Lithonia Lighting strips and two Lithonia industrials. Two HOs that are older looking and three oldish looking slimline strips with single piece 8ft covers along the far end of the shop with sorta far-spaced lamps.

The Feit is cool white but I forget if it's 75W or 60W. I think 75... I don't remember if the Philips is post or pre-EPACT. I didn't really pay too much attention to them. There is another Philips pre-alto in use in one of the old slimlines. The oldest 8ft lamp in service that I know of at the shop.

My daylight GE F48HOs have the "800 etch". What does the 800 mean? Pretty cool looking etch for sure. If they're pretty old though I might want to switch them out since I don't want to burn through them...

I don't like very insensitive PCs, but I like having a mix of sensitive and insensitive twistlock PCs since that way I can put whatever PC I want in the light to make it come on earlier or later. For my lights outside, I have them come on earlier so they're already on when the natural light level dips below what the lights provide. That way the yard doesn't get dark as the sun goes down and they get brighter again when the lights come back on.

I don't like LED christmas lights at all because they flicker, they lack that warm look of incandescent Christmas lights, and the blue ones have a black light effect. LED lights are better for Halloween lighting since they add to the spooky atmosphere with their flickering cold light. I've always liked the colored lights over the colorless ones. The only time I prefer colorless xmas lights is the "icicle" lights.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on August 23, 2015, 04:39:35 PM
The '800' means 800 milliamps lamp current.

I personally like LED lights, for 2 primary reasons...
* The nice bright/intense colors that don't fade
* They take so little power (when you run hundreds of _sets_ that's a biggie :lol: )

I also like the 'cool white' color...especially for things like icicle lights that should look "cold"
I'm not a big fan of multicolor sets, preferring single-color sets instead.

I use a mix of standard clear incandescent mini's and LED mini's (multiple single-colors)
Pretty much I treat each type or color as its own thing/channel - they're all plugged into controlboxes which are controlled by a computer...So  I can change colors, do different patterns, etc (& ofcourse set on/off time :) )
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 23, 2015, 06:53:08 PM
Ah I see.

Yeah I suppose the cool white LEDs would look really nice as icicle lights. Have they made ones that don't flicker at all yet? We have one small set of LED C7s (integral LEDs though, not screw-in) and they've lasted a long time maintenance-free but they are dim and I don't like the black light effect from the blue ones or the flicker. Granted the set is probably getting close to 10 years old so LEDs have come a long way since then. My aunt and uncle use LED mini lights on their Christmas tree and I didn't like them. I like the nice crisp colors (except for the blue) but it just doesn't look Christmassy without the warmth to it. My friend has LED C7s on his tree but that since his parents always get a live tree and with incandescent ones, the heat could make the tree a fire hazard. Everyone in my family just uses fake trees. No pine needles everywhere, no risk of tree catching fire, and you only have to buy it once. Our fake tree is about 20-25 years old. It's about 6 or 7 feet tall.

Yeah you go all out. :D We go driving around in neighborhoods looking for decked-out houses. My house is the most decked out in the neighborhood by a long shot but nothing compared to what others do. I consider my Christmas light set-ups amateur compared to some. There was a guy who made the local news because he had his whole property lit up and the lights "danced" to holiday music. Must be nice to drive by and see but I sure wouldn't want to live anywhere near that guy lol. I'd be going nuts with the noise and lights all night. I think he shuts everything down by 10PM or midnight but when I'm working, I'm in bed by 8:30 or 9PM (get up at 4:30AM) so that would drive me nuts lol.

Some of my lights blink but they're controlled by those lamps that have the thermal strip inside that opens the circuit as it heats up. In the coldest of climates I wonder if it gets too cold for the thermal strip to open. ???
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on August 23, 2015, 08:32:49 PM
The standard LEDs you buy at all the regular stores are still half-wave, so they have that 60hz flicker...you can buy full-wave sets online (certainly better but not totally flicker free). They're allot more expensive, not worth the expense to me (I buy most of my stuff cheap in the after Christmas sales). If I wanted I could convert my half-wave to sets to full-wave (not hard to do, just time consuming)
They can (and do) make truly flicker-free LED sets, but that means adding a capacitor, which makes the set non-flashable & non-dimmable so most "light people" wouldn't want them.
I like that the blue is so 'blue' , but I do agree its not really xmas-ish. They also make actual blacklight LEDs too.

I don't so much go all-out, especially compared to the people in that Christmas-lights group I mentioned...
their displays put mine to shame .lol. - think of the guy you saw on the news, that's exactly the type of thing they do :) . Actually allot of them are going a level above -- With the new generation of RGB lights, now think of a house all outlined in lights where you can control every bulb individually to be any color & any brightness... Same for trees in the yard too. (these lights are flicker free since they run on low-voltage DC).
I'll see if I can find some of their YouTube videos sometime when my other computer is on.

I'm just using a old and very basic computer controlled setup, it can't do all the fancy things, or do music...but it works for me :) I still go to their meetups just because the stuff they have is so cool & really interesting. (even though its way too costly for me to even consider buying those lights)

I run my stuff from 5pm (or even a bit before since its basically dark by 5 here) to 9pm .. starting thanksgiving night, then in the last week or so before Christmas I change the 'lights off' setting to 10 pm. Allot of people go later, especially on weekends. I don't want to annoy the neighbors with lights flashing late into the night :lol:

For inside I've got multiple fake trees - what I call my 'mini forest' (gotta love those final 90% off sales), and I do each with its own color of lights - pretty much every color of the spectrum (all LEDs otherwize I simply couldn't do it).

I would assume that once it gets below zero those flasher bulbs wouldn't work?? I should try that in the winter?

Like you I like to go driving around looking at lights.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 24, 2015, 10:57:09 AM
I like LEDs a lot for their vivid, bright colors and low power useage.  I have a couple sets in more or less 24/7 use as nightlights indoors because of this...they're half-wave though.  The cool white ones...never noticed the UV but I have a painting near them...will that cause issues long-term like fluorescents can? (fading).  
The really vivid, blacklight-ish ones are the blue LEDs...though they dim out and die fastest...followed by green. Red/orange/yellow seem OK.  I have a set in use 24/7 that's multicolored, so that's how I say that.  

I run C9s and C7s and some mini incandescents outside, use mini incans on the tree, and like I said have LEDs in constant use anyway.

I still literally go out with a handsaw right behind the house and cut my tree and drag it home every year.   But yeah, live trees...unplug them when unattended! I can't stress it enough!

The flasher bulbs sometimes even have trouble in subfreezing but above zero temps...they either won't flash at all or do it way slower.  And some flasher bulbs are just faster/slower period I've noticed.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 24, 2015, 04:08:35 PM
Yeah I can't stand the half-wave LEDs and yeah, the sets are expensive enough as it is without the capacitor making them full-wave so full-wave ones really aren't practical.

BTW, I went to the ReStore today and scored 11 vintage F40T12s from the 70s and 80s! All CW and all work. Also got two F15T12s, three F13T5s (also all CW, and all NOS to boot). And drum-roll please... A 1962 F40/RS Louvered fixture! (minus the louvers though, so it's just a V-shaped fixture lol) All for under $20 too! The sans-louvers fixture has a pre-Therm-O-Matic Universal ballast from June 1962. It just says UNIVERSAL in huge letters in place of THERM-O-MATIC and still has the green/yellow format.

There were also to 8ft slimline versions and I really wanted at least one of them (they too had Universal ballasts, but with blue labels) and there was a case of F96T12 EcoLogic Sylvania 60W cool white tubes (two of the lamps in the case were 75W /DX Sylvanias and two spots in the case were empty). I would have gotten one of the 8ft fixtures but I can barely fit a 4ft fixture in my car. An 8ft one would be impossible unless I strapped it to the roof lol. If I were to have a slimline, I sure wouldn't mind it being one of those louvered lights! Though the 8ft ones were missing all the louvers too for whatever reason. Oh well... I made out with 7 Westy blackenders, 3 Mainlighters, 1 1984 Philips-Westinghouse lamp, one NOS GE F15T12, one NOS GE-made inside-etch Philips F15T12, one Philips F13T5, and two F13T5s of another brand. Pretty good haul! Oh and I got one of those screw sockets that plugs into a wall socket. Always wanted one for convenient lamp testing.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on August 24, 2015, 07:43:08 PM
@GEsoftwhite100watts:
There's the deep blue (which is just blue, very little if any UV), but there is also an actual blacklight LED (I've got some myself). The white LEDs are a just 'blue' one with white phosphor, so shouldn't be much UV.

I've got some sets of various colors that basically run 24/7 (basically as nightlights). Its the cool-white sets for me that's faded the most in brightness.

I gave up on 'flasher bulbs' years ago, because I wanted more than just a set (or part of a set) to flash as a unit... with the stuff I've got now, I can flash a whole bunch of sets together  (even if needed split the load between a couple breakers :lol: )

@Mike:
Basic full-wave just requires adding a diode bridge and a different resistor (I've actually considered 'converting' some of my half-wave sets, just don't have the time or ambition to do it ) ..

The sets with a capacitor have the diode-bridge for full-wave, and then a capacitor. With some of those sets if you try to dim them, the capacitor will literally explode :lol:

Nice finds at the ReStore!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 25, 2015, 10:01:48 AM
Score! Take Pics!  And try to go back with help for an 8ft louvered fixture if you can! (If a friend has a pickup or van or flatbed).  See? This is where a Deuce could really come in handy!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 25, 2015, 08:35:08 PM
I will take pics sometime. I actually already cleaned, tested, and put away all the lamps but I'll pull them back out for pics. As for the louvered fixture, it's been repainted and new sockets were installed. Works great, though the insulation on the wires is greasy and rubs off. ??? Wires are very gummy and jiggly too, like pieces or string rather than like actual wire.

As for the 8ft fixture, I would definitely return to try and grab it if it has louvers but even so, realistically I'd have no place to put it. I don't even have a spot for the 4ft louvered fixture either (wish I had the louvers for it since it's pretty ugly without them!) but when I popped it open and saw the ancient Universal ballast I had to get it. There was a bunch of crappy LPF and LOA-style shoplights too but I passed on all of them since I no longer need any "Replacer Fixtures" to replace vintage lights within the family. Well, A couple odds and ends but I'm done for a while anyway...

BTW, I'm gonna be building a storage shelf outdoor for some cobraheads. I'm hoping to seat at least 12 cobraheads (two rows of six most likely) with an approximately 3.5-4ft deep  X 8-10ft long X 4-5ft tall shelf that's going to be built like a shed, made out of wood (2X4s and plywood most likely) and possibly with a shingled roof. Back and sides enclosed with a plywood "floor" and some sort of door/cover to cover up the front. I want to make it as bug-tight as possible, but those damn bees and spiders get into the tightest of spaces. >:( :8) Even the smallest gap is enough for spiders and bees to take over the area and nest in my lights. I won't be storing any fluorescents in this structure but any space freed up in the shed from cobraheads going here instead will be taken over by fluorescents. So the shed will pretty much become by "dumping grounds" for all my new fluorescent lights over 3ft. All fluorescent lamps will be kept inside, though I do have a box of 350W PSMH lamps out there and the cobraheads out there each have a lamp in them.

So anyway, not sure exactly when this structure is going to be built, but I'm trying to make it a low-cost project that will allow me to store around 12 cobraheads outside, protected from the weather. I don't expect it to turn out perfect but I have an ideal picture in my head. It will probably be painted $h!t brown to match the deck and fence lol. Any ideas on the design of this thing? I have a pretty good idea how I'm going to build it but always open to suggestions. FYI it will be propped up on cinderblocks to keep it off the ground. The door/cover is the trickiest part for me. I'm thinking of just having a long door that's hinged at the bottom with a couple gate latches on top. I'd just have to make sure it would clear the deck posts and find some way to make sure the door seals against the rest of the structure to prevent water and bugs from getting in. I guess a ton of latches and maybe some foam strips would do the trick... I have a feeling this is going to end up being a very expensive project the way I want to build it lol. Anyone can build a strong structure, but I want to build a strong structure that's also low-cost, so I'll have to see what I can get by without and what is OK. 24" stud spacing instead of 16 would be acceptable, though perhaps I could use 2X2s instead of 2X4s to save wood (gives a little more room inside too). Since the structure is going to be under the deck, it will never bear any snow load and will never be in direct exposure to pouring rain (though water will come through the gaps between the decking material and the structure will be exposed to wind blowing under the deck).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 25, 2015, 10:59:53 PM
Go get it anyway! You can always toss it or trade it off later. 

Nice project! Take pics! I should take pics of the crappy little 4-posts-and-a-plywood-roof-covered-with-a-blue-tarp shed I built last year, originally for a generator but later as a storage for a bunch of scrap metal and other crap. 

Hmm let's see.  1X4 or 2X2 studs, OSB or T-111 for siding, asphalt roll roofing for a roof, that's about it.  I like the cinderblock idea, it sounds movable on a flatbed truck when/if you move out and get your own place.  Or even if you re-arrange the yard. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 26, 2015, 02:48:29 PM
OSB is not good for exposure to water. It'll blow up and splinter and looks like crap anyway. I was considering T-111 but in the way I'd be using it, the 8ft dimension would be horizontal so the notches would be going side to side and not up-down. It would look terrible. Plywood it is.

Never heard of that roll roofing stuff but looks like it's pretty expensive and only comes in 100-square-feet rolls and I only need 33.3 square feet (which turns out to be exactly one bundle of shingles). We have some shingles leftover from when our house was built so I'll just use those and if I have to, buy an extra bundle. I don't think I'm going to worry too much about the felt paper, unless we have some laying around. Without even calculating roofing materials (aside from the plywood substrate) the project is going to cost around $211 + tax. A hell of a project. It's going to be 10ft long, 40" deep, and 42" high. The door is going to be built of four sections (2X2 pattern). The two top sections will unlatch and hinge down off of the top of the bottom sections and then the bottom sections will hinge down off the bottom of the structure. The reason for this is that I only have 25" clearance between the front of the structure and the deck support posts, so two 42in X 5ft doors is not an option. And obviously two 5ft doors are used since plywood is only 8ft long and I'd rather split the extra two feet evenly rather than have an 8ft door and a 2ft door lol.

Unfortunately the cinder blocks do not make it transportable since A, the backyard is fenced in so a truck couldn't get in and B, the shelf is being built underneath the deck, albeit independent of the deck, so you couldn't get a forklift under the deck to move it anyway since there's about 4ft clearance under the deck. If I take it with me, I'd have to take it apart. So likely it'll end up staying when I move out. That said, I wonder if my parents would help me out with the cost since it'll essentially be their property when I move out. $211.97 is what I came up with from the following:

(9x) 1/4" 4x8 plywood ($11.97 ea)
(1x) 12-pk stainless steel hinges ($22.98)
(8x) latch ($3.58 ea)
(12x) 96" 2x4 ($2.52 ea)
(7x) 96" 2x2 ($1.92 ea)
(6x) cinder block ($149 ea)

As you can see, the plywood is literally half the cost of the entire project, and it's only 1/4". I was originally going to use 3/8" or even 1/2". Oh, and I'm going to buy weather striping (normally used to fix drafty windows) to use as a gasket for the "doors" to hopefully seal the bugs out. I'm more concerned about bugs than I am about moisture since after all, they are cobraheads and are designed to be out in the elements, but naturally I'd like to protect them from the environment if I can. Being 10ft in length (20ft of shelf space) I should be able to fit around 14-16 cobraheads comfortably, depending on each one since some are wider than others. They'd be stored in an alternating latch/slipfitter fashion since cobraheads are tear drop shaped when looked at from above/below, so one will have the front facing out, the next will have the front facing in, next facing out, and so-on. Maybe I'll consider downsizing back to my original 8ft long plans instead of 10ft long to save on materials (and money).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 26, 2015, 09:49:53 PM
Yeah, that sounds pricy! Screw it together and it could thus be disassembled/moved. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 27, 2015, 09:20:30 AM
Yeah expensive, so I have decided to go with an 8ft long one instead of 10ft, since it simplifies construction a lot (since plywood just so happens to come in 8ft lengths...) So with the 8ft length over 10ft, that would be $175.87 and that includes tax and the weatherstrip tape. So altogether it saves like $40 if tax and weatherstrip were added to the other one, and it's only 4ft less of shelf space (2ft less of unit length) so it'll still be a good size. The obviously saves on lumber but also saves on latches, requiring only five latches instead of eight and only six hinges instead of 12, though they come in 12-packs so I might just get the 12-pack and really over-do it with the hinges lol. And yep, definitely going to use screws lol.(except for stuff like the studs; I'll nail those, but the bigger modules (walls, floor, roof) will be fastened together with decking screws.

I have job orientation for my new part-time job. I'm also getting an NOS 400W MV floodlight soon!!! ;D For $20 to boot!  Check it out!  (http://providence.craigslist.org/for/5146291931.html) I messaged the seller and he/she said it's multi-tap wired for 120V. No PC socket that I am aware of, unfortunately, but I could always wire a remote PC if I ever installed it. No idea on the age of this, but is is NOS. Maybe there's a date or whatever inside. Needs a lamp, but I have a few 400W MV lamps at home. I also have a 400W MH lamp that I can try, but I doubt it would light. Never know though...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 27, 2015, 11:06:08 AM
That's an Appleton! Nice! I know of a few of those still in use.  Some have been refitted with spiral CFLs but some are still mercury.  (And the ones that still are mercury seem fairly bright/recently relamped within the last few years).  A 1000w version also exists but the ones at that facility got spiral CFL hack jobs...I think I have a pic of one somewhere on LG.  As for age, probably late 70s-early 80s.  That building was started in '79 and completed in '81, and photos from the 1980s show those fixtures being there.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 27, 2015, 11:44:03 AM
Yeah never heard of Appleton, but they look similar to the floodlights that were used at Rocky Point Park (but not identical; they have larger reflectors than ballast casing just like the appleton though). I was actually kinda hoping that it would be MH so I could run MH or MV lamps but the fact that it's MV-only makes it seem older lol. No idea on the age, but 70s or 80s sounds right since it is MV-only. I saw a MH version of this on ebay but the seller wants over $150 for it plus another $75 shipping so I'll definitely take the $20 MV one that's only a couple towns north of me lol. Both are new. The ebay one is in Kentucky BTW.

I remember you showing me those CFL-retrofitted ones. Looks very tacky lol.

Apparently this fixture 18" tall and about 24" wide! :o I was thinking it was much smaller than that!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 27, 2015, 04:44:00 PM
Yeah, late 70s would probably still be MV-only.  80s-90s would probably be MH.
Yeah, any >250w-ish HID fixture is huge up close LOL.  That M-400A I might end up with is like 3 feet long! They just don't seem so big when they'e up on poles/buildings!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 27, 2015, 06:34:04 PM
80s would likely be MV over MH, but HPS would probably be used over MV. A lot of 80s places used HPS for parking lots and even highbay lighting! :o I saw one disconnected HPS highbay at work (well former-workplace). The building is from the 70s. My guess is the building originally used HPS lighting since 70s is too early for MH (though MH did exist; it was extremely expensive and lamps were only rated to 8000-10000 hours instead of the 15-20 thousand hours seen now. And the 70s MH was not much more efficient than MV, just with better color rendering.)

Yep, the M-400A should be exactly 36" long (well, give or take a fraction of an inch) and about 14" wide. The OV-25 silverliners are about 40" long! Westinghouse always made the longest cobraheads. The OV-15 is just about the same size as the M-400 generations (all the GE M-400s were just about 36" long) and the OV-15 is a small-sized fixture and the M-400s are medium sized! The reason Westy cobraheads are longer is because the slipfitter area takes up more room. The actual area the ballast and reflector are mounted in is about the same size. GE just used space more efficiently. (Larger fixtures dissipate heat better though, but 60s GE fixtures seem to last just as long as 60s Westinghouse fixtures.)

GE's quality tanked after the 60s, going into the 70s though. Their 60s fixtures were very overbuilt and their 70s fixtures had much thinner castings, undersized hinges, and were known for bad capacitors. In the late 70s and 80s, GE revived themselves (not to their 60s standard of quality, but better than the 70s fixtures, at least in my opinion) with thicker reflectors and all the new bells and whistles they came out with the mid-80s. Their HPS lights were particularly well-built and almost all the 80s test HPS lights here are still in use. GE's quality dipped some in the 90s, mostly with the fact that the refractor doors tend to fall off more easily and the fixture tend to collect rain water over time. The refractor door issue is a problem with the post-1993 flat door lights to present day but the water collecting issue is a problem with the 1992/1993 flat door M-250R2s too. Water collection doesn't appear to have been an issue with the larger fixtures or the M-250A2, just the M-250R2. The AE 113s here collect water a lot too.

I've never actually measured most of my lights, but here's some lengths to give you a rough idea of the size of some of them:

M-400 split door and M-400A2 are both 36" long
OV-25 remote ballast is 26.5" long (same as M-250R2)
M-250R2 is 26.5" long
M-250A is 30" long

Not sure about the other lights in the collection but those five I do know the exact lengths of.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 27, 2015, 08:43:06 PM
Yeah, the 80s saw this prolific explosion of HPS just about everywhere.  My school, built in '79 and '84-'85, has a HPS-lit gym.  (Eww, gross!) And low-wattage HPS wallpacks outside on the '84-'85 wing, though the '79 wing has some long-dead-and-never-relamped incandescent jar lights.  And the fluorescents...all old Universal and Advance ballasts! (Therm-O-Matics and Kool-Koils in the '79 wing and .65a Universals in the '84-'85 wing).  So lots of ugly orange light and raspy buzzing full power HPF F40/RS ballasts in that place to this very day. 

Latest lamps being used to relamp are Sylvania F40CWX: I can tell by the ugly pinkish light they put off next to /CW.  Kinda weird seeing so much mismatching over the years but it brings character! There's a bunch of Norelco F40CWs there, installed (some by me!) NOS in 2013!  (I couldn't save the case for my own use and didn't trade).  Period-correct lamps!   

I think originally the '84 wing was lit by Sylvania/GTE Design 50 from lamps I found under the building, taped up together and long since EOL.  There were a bunch of GE Shoplite lamps from that era too and a couple post-Mainlighter GE F40CWs.  I'm wondering if any of my Mainlighter lamps are from there originally? I got them from the trash shed of the city hall/library/community center next door, gave them to the school, they didn't want them, so I took them back.  Most are warm white though I got a cool white one too. 

That place got me the vast majority of my collection of F40 lamps.  I think it's neat having such a story behind them.  And I might get more for all I know.  It pays to know janitors and maintenance people well.  I even often take the EOL, quit-on-rapid-start lamps and run them awhile longer on a shunted-for-one-lamp ballast, and now plan to do so on my slimline ballast set up for 4ft lamps.  Endless supply of free light...LOL

Yeah, all I know is that that damn thing is huge LOL.  My godfather's head fits inside the refractor (Joking around holding it on like a hat). 

For years now I've kinda wanted a Westy OV25 Silverliner in 400w MV "flavor".  And a WideLite F-series 1000w MV flood.  And any old MV yardblaster or NEMA.   And some nice old gumball too.  I'd probably get into old streetlights if I had access to them...but living in a place with no cars for the last six years I haven't really had that opportunity. 

I hate seeing water in refractors, though!  It'd be fun to go driving around with a fellow lighting enthusiast like you in our respective locales pointing things out to each other LOL.  If you ever make it to AK we might have to meet up LOL...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 28, 2015, 12:01:26 PM
Yeah CWX puts a bad name on T12s since they're so dim. I bet if all the T8s were only CWX and T12s were triphosphor, this switch away from T12s wouldn't be happening.

You should take those lamps under the building and test them. Some might actually still work and if not, they make good IS-overdrive victims lol. Yeah it's really cool having a story behind collection items. Most of my lamps are from the ReStore or purchased new. That recent F40CW score Tuesday really boosted by blackender count! Seven more blackenders now!

"flavor"? I sure wouldn't want to lick a 40 year old street light! I wouldn't mind an OV-25 but not one of my highly-sought-after lights. I'd much rather have some GEs.

Yeah it would be really cool to meet up sometime! I don't see myself ever going cross-country though.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 28, 2015, 01:17:10 PM
It really does! I don't mind the equally dim and flickery /950 lamps at all, in fact I prefer them, but /CWX just looks bad next to other lamps.  I should do some comparison shots between various colors, I've always been meaning to do that. 

This was years ago, they've long since gone to recycle.  Plus they were ALL pretty blackened.  But the current EOL lamps, I do plan to take and I was told I could have at one point.  I know for a fact there's a bunch of 34w GE Watt-Misers in cool white in there, and a few other random 40w lamps. 

Most of the items in my collection have a story behind them...of me knowing them beforehand! Fluorescents especially. 

Now that you have your own car do you go to ReStore pretty often I assume? I know I'd be trying to go every day LOL.  I'm not sure if Fairbanks, AK has one but in a city of 32,000 and greater metro area of 100,000 people it wouldn't surprise me if there is one.  If it's near the university and/or near my commute route I plan to go as often as I can.  And potentially owning a Deuce means no problem transporting 8 foot fixtures and lamps!  It's fun to imagine coming home with a whole store remodel's worth of slimline/HO fixtures and lamps. 

Yeah, I don't really ever see making it out to the east coast, I just have no reason to go there.  But I foresee a lot of traveling between AK and CA, especially during my college years. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 28, 2015, 09:00:52 PM
OK Mike, being a HID guru, have you ever seen those WideLite 11-degree 1000w HPS floods? (NOT the ubiquitous 1000w and 400w mercury ones, which are apparently still made in PSMH or whatever from what I can find). I'm trying to find a pair of them for my dad. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on August 28, 2015, 10:04:02 PM
(9x) 1/4" 4x8 plywood
Not trying to be rude or anything here, just trying to give advice:
1/4" is pretty flimsy stuff (and don't expect it to hold up to weather...it won't - especially if you get allot of wet weather)
Personally I'd go with 1/2" OSB or plywood on the roof (and yes the tar/felt paper too)
On the walls/doors I'd go with 3/8" or 1/2" siding board (don't know if that's actually what they call it), comes in 4x8 sheets and is usually made of the same 'stuff' as OSB (or some similar pressed board), but its got a hard coating on one side, and is designed for exposure to weather.

Your best choice in my opinion would be to match whatever siding type is on your house though (simply for looks)

---------------------
Now back to lights :)

In some cases I'm fine with a 'dim' lamp like 5000k. There have been even been times cases when I've specifically picked a 5000k for its dimmness - like when I had a couple 1x 4-foot lights setup as security lights...I even ran T12 on a T8 ballast so it'd be dimmer (I wanted light, but not not something bright .lol. )
In many cases (like plants or fish) I want something as bright/efficient as possible.


---------------------
Cities/ReStores 
Quote from: GEsoftwhite100watts
I'm not sure if Fairbanks, AK has one but in a city of 32,000 and 
I'd basically consider that a small-ish town .lol.

There's 6 ReStores that I know of here, one that's fairly convenient, it being one of what I consider the "3 main ones".
I went to one that I'd never been too last weekend (and won't be going back since it had almost no lighting and is quite out of the way)
But now I've been to 5 of the 6 :)


---------------------
Schools/lights
My highschool was all 4xF40 troffers in the main part, all cool-white (and likely 34w)
The 'shop' rooms had either 2xF40 or 2xF96 (I don't remember) shoplight type.
The gym was MV
In back of the school was some of those temporary classroom buildings, which  louvered F40 fixtures (I really liked those, and always tried to discreetly look up & see what type of lamps were in them - The only ones I specifically were the older style 34w with a big "Econ-O-Watt" in the etch .. In general I don't like energy saver lamps, but those also happen to be my favorite type of 34w )
I don't believe F32T8's or electronic ballasts and such existed back then.

A year or so after I graduated, the school had a fairly large addition built on, and the original part was totally gutted & remodeled (so I'm sure all the original lighting was probably trashed at that time - I have no idea since I've never seen it). Then around 6-7 years later they had to do some significant remodeling & repairs to what was still fairly new.


Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 29, 2015, 01:16:46 PM
Yeah, amazing they had to redo everything again less than a decade later! I like "dim" lamps sometimes too, but generally prefer brighter over color/CRI.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on August 29, 2015, 09:01:49 PM
Yeah, amazing they had to redo everything again less than a decade later!
There was allot of damage done to the building when something happened there.

Quote
  I like "dim" lamps sometimes too, but generally prefer brighter over color/CRI.
Yep the 'dim' lamps have their place...thing is its usually someplace where I also wouldn't care about high CRI .lol.
In most cases I want the extra brightness, even if CRI is lower.


------------
I did alittle upgrade to my shed lighting today (now has 4xF40 (LPF-RS) instead of 2XF40 LOA electronic preheat)..
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 29, 2015, 10:42:49 PM
Hey Mike, you'll like this: I've been Streetviewing a lot lately, up in the Fairbanks, AK area.  Not for streetlight scenery, but to see what's around up there.  I've always thought Streetview doesn't do unpaved/dirt roads, but that's not the case, they covered a bunch of dirt road in Pleasant Valley, AK.  Have you ever seen them cover dirt roads?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 30, 2015, 10:09:36 AM
OK... A lot to catch up on...

Andy:
I actually don't go to the Restore any more than I used to before I got a car. I can't see going there all the time since it's very hit-or-miss. Nope never heard of an 11-degree flood light but with a beam spread that narrow it sounds like it's a spot light. Being 1000W that sucker must shine for miles lol.

xmaslightguy:
I appreciate the suggestion. Yeah 1/4 seems too thin to me too. I originally wanted to go with 3/8 but I couldn't really see pended the extra $6 a board for just 1/8" thicker pieces. I have plenty or roofing shingles in the garage (two sealed bundles plus a near-full third bundle) so I'm definitely using the shingles since it makes no sense to go by roll roofing when I can just use what's already laying around. The side of my house is vinyl siding. Can't really match that. The deck is wood and brown, so I can definitely match that.

Andy:

Most of the roads here are all paved (though some in such disrepair you'd think they weren't). A good number of roads here still don't have streetview.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 30, 2015, 02:28:28 PM
Yeah they literally shine for miles!

Yeah I hate poorly maintained paved roads...you'd almost think they were unpaved!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Solanaceae on August 30, 2015, 03:10:28 PM
I go to hab almost every weekend, but I may forfeit my trip next weekend if I end up winning a merc auction.
All the roads in my town are paved, but lots are crappy and dilapidated.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 30, 2015, 07:58:21 PM
What are you budding on? Vintage cleartops, or?

Do they at least fill the potholes with gravel or something?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Solanaceae on August 30, 2015, 09:55:24 PM
What are you budding on? Vintage cleartops, or?

Do they at least fill the potholes with gravel or something?
no cleartop but medium based Ed lamps. Nos GE from the good old days.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 30, 2015, 10:16:17 PM
Old days being? 80s /DX I assume?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Solanaceae on August 30, 2015, 11:34:42 PM
They have the circle etch so maybe 70s
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 31, 2015, 08:38:58 AM
Circle etch? Not sure what you're describing...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 31, 2015, 10:15:25 AM
They fill the potholes here but honestly, sometimes the road is better if they just don't bother filling them since they have no freakin' idea how to fill potholes here lol. They turn the pothole into a mound of asphalt sticking out from the roadway so it turns into a hump instead. :8) And then the following winter, the plot truck just digs up the pothole again because the plow catches the mound of asphalt sticking out in the middle of the road. Most of the time it's those darn sewer and storm drain covers. They sit below the road's surface because when they pave roads here, they almost always just pave over the old asphalt, so the drain covers end up being up to four inches below the road surface since they don't spend any time digging up the old pavement.

 here's a bad road.  (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.771614,-71.5104571,3a,23.7y,247.25h,84.24t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3hBZMpKxbiLV2f8QlWfGpw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en)

 and this road is terrible!  (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7841138,-71.5156025,3a,37.1y,190.99h,79.27t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6ZCw-rTtUw83PGAQDFezIA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en)

 Not to mention a huge percentage of Rhode Island's bridges are structurally deficient.  (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7500781,-71.4518762,3a,42.4y,116.99h,89.92t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1slLqEOj19vOI6jHZRQrCm7g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en) A lot of bridges have those blocks wedged around the support columns since the concrete is chipping away, revealing the rebar inside.  all of these "rocks" are chunks of concrete that's fallen off the support columns!  (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7500781,-71.4518762,3a,90y,271.29h,70.11t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1slLqEOj19vOI6jHZRQrCm7g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 31, 2015, 10:28:46 AM
Wow that bridge is ridiculous! That second streetview link is surprising given it appears to be a busy-ish main road in a downtown-ish area. I've seen MUCH worse on 1-lane residential streets though!  These must all be places you know in person? 

And another issue can be frost heaving or when they  build highways on top of bulldozed-over trees.  It's not covered by Streetview, but there's a highway I know of that has a 50MPH speed limit and 3 HUGE "bumps" in a row...there's a sign that says DIPS but it's still not that obvious until you hit it at 50MPH.  Really good for waking up everyone in the car while sleeping. Local drivers know to slow down for it but if you hit it at 50MPH (Or 85MpH for that matter!) let's just say the suspension reaches the end of it's travel.

Another one I find annoying are the freeways in major metropolitan areas (For example, into and out of San Jose, CA) that are concrete and thus paved in sections...bumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbumpbump at 50+MPH! I can only imagine what driving a 6X6 vehicle would be like: bang...bangbang...bang...bangbang!  Granted, I may end up doing just that...and trying to avoid those freeways in a Deuce that tops out at, at best, 55MPH!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 31, 2015, 02:00:16 PM
Yeah a lot of bridges are like that here! The second street view is in an business/industrial park area. Not downtown. Right near me house actually! If you keep going down that street, you come to a traffic signal. Keep going straight and then take a right at the third stop sign and you're on my street! Yep I drive over all those roads all the time; they're all in my neck of the woods.

Never heard of paving roads on top of cut-down trees. Here they clear the land and level it with fill before paving a new road. What I see frequently here is that the asphalt cracks in regular intervals, making me think the old freeways here were originally paved with concrete and they just repaved over the concrete with asphalt since the asphalt had straight cracks in a grid pattern.  Here's an example of a freeway like that.  (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7351802,-71.479705,3a,16.9y,349.92h,85.47t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sy2IEfsjL6GigCPX6YdNydA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en) As you drive down the freeway, you hear BU-BUMP, BU-BUMP, BU-BUMP, with the occasional really big BANG-BANG is it's a hump instead of a crack.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 31, 2015, 07:41:24 PM
Wow interesting! I assume that's an entrance/exit ramp? I always thought of freeways of being at least 4 lanes (2 each direction).  But I also know of a section of what I'd call freeway (4 lane, jersey barrier, 55MPH speed limit) with this random stoplight and t-shaped intersection in the middle of it.)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 31, 2015, 08:38:53 PM
I have a medium base GE with the circle etch. Not sure of the age. Either 80s or right around 2000...

Nope that's the freeway, and there is two lanes in each direction, this is just one side of the freeway. It's more like a mini freeway.

The local terminology here for freeways and highways is different from most places I go to. Here, Interstates such as "Interstate 95" is referred to as "Route 95". State highways such as RI State Highway 12 is referred to as "Route 12", or more commonly by its street name if it's not a freeway (which is either Park Ave, Phenix Ave, Scituate Ave, or Tunk Hill Road depending where you are). Any road with yellow lines in the middle is considered a "main road".
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 01, 2015, 11:01:13 AM
OK, the yellow line thing makes sense I guess.  There's one road I may be driving while in college that has the "road" suffix but I'd call it a highway...2-lane, 55MPH speed limit, 56.5 miles of pavement.  Then there's a couple sections of full-blown freeway after that.    So thankfully, although long, most of my 75-ish mile each way commute will be relatively traffic-free. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 01, 2015, 04:52:51 PM
Ah yeah street name suffixes don't mean anything in terms of what kind of road it is. Post Road is one of the busiest roads in RI (US Rte 1) and Oakland Avenue is just the side street my grandparents live on lol. (And my road is paved despite the suffix "trail" lol)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 01, 2015, 10:44:36 PM
We lived on Linda Vista Avenue in Atascadero, CA, a 1-lane dirt road that used to actually even be a dead end! (It later was pushed through when the neighbor's newly-built house was going to be on city sewer...not sure if that was a preference or a code thing...ideas?)

And being right near the high school in a town of 25,000 people, we had people going up our road and getting lost and trying to turn around in our driveway (last house on a more-or-less dead-end road) and getting stuck in the ditch, etc.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 04, 2015, 10:52:14 PM
So today I decided on a whim to explore an abandoned building near my house, and guess what? Tucked up in the rafters is the underside of some sort of preheat fluorescent, I think a 4 footer! 4 ballasts (Not sure if they're 1 or 2 lamp) but I saw starter socket wiring and the ballasts were those 1940s-1950s looking GE units. I'm going to ask about it! So it's theoretically 4 or 8 lamps. It was upside down so I couldn't see if lamps or starters are there too but if so I can only imagine what they might be! Actually, with no enclosed back, it might date to WWII, during the metal shortage.  I know who owns this place and may go to visit them this winter so I plan to ask!

I dunno what the fixture type is and it doesn't look like anything I'd want so I might gut it for the vintage electrical components and chuck the rest...but there's also historical value there I suppose.  I could convert some existing fixtures to preheat, though!

I'm unfamiliar with preheat F40 ballasts in general, but they have rounded corners, the old 40s-50s looking GENERAL (GE) ELECTRIC label, and I'm pretty sure the wire is cloth (And might be in serviceable condition, but I will try not to touch it if I get them!

I wonder what the lamps could be...I prefer to think at least old enough to be something like Westy blackenders, GE Mainlighters or "3" lamps,, Sylvania Lifelines or GTEs, old Norelco tubes, or who knows what else! 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 05, 2015, 09:34:25 AM
Nice! Just keep in mind that if you ask about the light, they're going to to know you broke into the building and went snooping around. :P ;) Hopefully you are buds with the owner or else he might not appreciate that lol. Honestly if you think the guy would get upset if you asked him about it I'd just go back and grab it. He probably won't even know it's gone...

Hmm yeah it would be cool if the lamps were vintage. Imagine if they were original brass-ended MAZDA lamps? :o ;D Typically, those fixtures with no cover on the ballast have special ballasts with leads that enter through the bottom of the case, since there is typically a thin raceway between the ballast and reflector where the leads to the sockets run, that way the leads are concealed completely from the outside of the fixture, leaving just the ballast. Since mice like to eat cloth wiring (and pretty much anything else that eats paper products) it's a good idea to have the leads concealed in the fixture.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 05, 2015, 02:48:23 PM
Yeah, good point.  But considering that one of the doors is off its hinges and laying on the ground, and that there's multiple broken windows, it's not like it was boarded up or there were posted NO TRESPASSING signs...if there were any of those signs or it was locked or the windows were boarded up I wouldn't have broken in.  So I basically just walked right in. 

It's in rafters like 8-10 feet off the ground and I might look a little conspicuous going over there with a stepladder, and don't feel like doing so at 1 AM LOL.  I might go look at it again later this weekend and try to ID it better and formulate a rescue plan.  I'm all for doing it honestly and never condone stealing anything out of an abandoned house or building but I've admittedly done it before, and still feel guilty about it, since in reality I COULD have charges pressed against me for theft, burglary, trespassing on private property, etc.  But I feel like I could contest any breaking and entering since the places have either been unlocked or had broken windows, doors open or off hinges, etc.  So although it's not ethically right, the stuff usually gets destroyed anyway from vandals (Yes, when I was younger I've admittedly thrown rocks through windows, etc.), the ravages of time and roof leaks, or the places are finally demolished altogether.   As a YouTube friend and fellow lighting enthusiast (Though as far as I know he isn't registered for LG or GOL, although he has visited LG and seen my uploads) put it well: "It isn't stealing if no one cares!"

I've thought about the Mazda lamps but I'm almost reluctant to grab them, since those contain Zinc Beryllium phosphors which are VERY hazardous if a lamp gets broken.  So if I did, I'd probably actually put those lamps into service and use them up to appreciate them instead of them sitting around.  Granted, when they start failing I'd save at least one still-working one but I'd rather use them and appreciate them than have them leaning in a corner in a box in my collection and fall over during an earthquake and break or something.  But then I realize they're antique and should be saved LOL.  It's always that dilemma, to use or not to use vintage lamps?

Ballasts look like they're 40s-50s but I need to look at more uploads on LG to confirm that.  Wiring is exposed, and there's another piece next to the fixture that may be a channel cover.  Ballast labels are kinda dark, like they've seen use and gotten hot, but they've also sat for probably...hmm...thinks about the history of Port Alexander....since before 1989 for sure!  Undoubtedly this would require the testing outside on a long extension cord test.  And then last night laying in bed thinking about this I thought of that 1950s long-john tumlamp F40 preheat ballast you had melt down...so I might want to fuse this sucker! 

Not sure where I'd put this thing yet, but maybe on my bedroom ceiling or in my office/shop? 4 or 8 F40 lamps blinking to life, that'd be pretty neat and something my dad would probably hate so I probably wouldn't install it anyplace else in the house!  Or maybe he'd appreciate such an old light too...I should try to involve him in my lighting hobby more. 

I've already thought of what lamps I'd use if I had to supply my own though.  If it was 8 lamps, I'd probably use: Three Sylvania F40/CWPs I have, (That start dim but in such a fixture that'd be less noticeable), a '94 Sylvania F40/CW, a Buyer's Choice (Sylvania) F40CWX, an old GE-made Ace F40CW, and a couple Norelco F40CWs I have.  I might even throw in my  VitaLite powertwist lamp in place of the Ace lamp but I'd like the VitaLite to stand out on it's own. If it was four, I'd keep it down to the most modern lamps...CWP and CWX.

 



Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Solanaceae on September 05, 2015, 03:29:29 PM
Good point about involving parents in the lighting hobby. I told my dad about my ploy to get street lights from numerous locations (if you're on lg and see the for sale section, I have a post there). I can't drive yet and my dad has a truck, so he is fine with me having lights, but now I have to be conservative of my space. If I get the lights and some are in horrid condition, I may end up selling them to the scrap yard or offering them for a discounted price or trade on lg. I'll probably keep one or two of each light and trade or sell the others away.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 05, 2015, 06:56:22 PM
Sounds like the building has been entered a few times. I still wouldn't admit to him that you went in there though since it's technically still "breaking and entering" even if the door is wide open. I'd probably do the same thing though if I knew the place wasn't being watched, though I'm always timid about going on other peoples' property, even if it appears unoccupied/abandoned. If I had more guts and went snooping in abandoned buildings I'd probably strike rich in vintage fixtures lol.

Typically when I get vintage lamps, they either come single or a matching pair if in a fixture (unless one lamp was replaced). If it's just one, it is saved. But if I have two sets of two matching vintage lamps, I'll pull one lamp from each set and use it in a fixture (provided they're the same color and phosphor mix) that way one lamp from each pair is saved. Or if I get lucky and get three identical vintage lamps, I'd put two in use and keep the third as a spare. That's how I'd do it if it ever came down to using my vintage lamps, though I'm going to use my non-vintage ones for now. When I get my own place I'll probably put some used vintage lamps in use on less-frequently-used fixtures. The ones I use all the time will definitely have "disposable" lamps that I can burn through without having a real loss.

Yeah a fuse wouldn't be a bad idea if you get this and decide to put it into use lol. Hmm sounds like it might be a top-access fixture, where the ballast is bolted to the reflector and the channel screws onto the reflector? Unless I'm misunderstanding what you said. Hmm an eight-lamp fixture is screaming for one lamp of each color. ;D  Soft White, /WW, /W, 4100K, 5000K, 6500K, Chroma 75, and Chroma 80. 8)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Solanaceae on September 05, 2015, 08:10:05 PM
I'm uneasy about exploring abandoned buildings. People are out watching in the day, and the ghosts are out in the night.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 06, 2015, 09:22:40 AM
I'd be more concerned about bumping into other burglars or walking over a weakened portion of floor and falling to my death. I'd much rather go "exploring" during the day too, but I would probably go back at night to take stuff. The good thing is that winter is coming and the sun goes down earlier and people spend less time outdoors because of the cold and generally inclimate weather.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 06, 2015, 03:21:12 PM
I doubt there'd be other burglars around here! There's other reasons I wouldn't do it at night though.

I guess that's a good way to use up vintage lamps.  Granted, I have case quantities of (albeit used) vintage lamps...about 3 or 4 dozen GE Mainlighters.  And one or two of other random lamps.  But sometimes they're still different.  For example, I have a pair of Norelco F40CW lamps, but each has different endcaps and etch design. 
I think I might go back there tomorrow and look at this light more closely though and try to figure out what it is.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 07, 2015, 08:41:51 AM
Yeah going back for a second look is always good since undoubtedly you'll notice something you didn't see the last time. :) Maybe you can grab a picture or two of this?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 07, 2015, 11:27:20 AM
I'll try that!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 07, 2015, 07:07:12 PM
Ok I went back there this morning since I was early for a job interview (I got hired BTW!) and took a couple pictures of this thing.  Well, what I think is three of them actually.  I'll post them on LG and maybe you can weigh in on what these might be and offer opinions on what I could do with them or if they're worth saving; they're in rough-ish shape.

Looks like 6 lamps, 6 1-lamp ballasts.  I did see one tombstone/starter socket dangling loose, with a very corroded metal starter which may still function when/if power is applied for the first time in probably longer than I've been alive.  Pretty sure no lamps are there but I can fix that.  I have two working, fairly new (albeit modern plastic GE HN) FS4 starters so I could in theory get it at least 1/3 operational right off the bat, PROVIDED that the ancient, PCB-containing, rusty preheat ballasts still work.  (They'd be tested OUTDOORS, FAR AWAY from the house on a long extension cord for sure). 

Some of the stuff next to it has modern-looking wire (NOT asbestos/cloth nastieness!) so I'm not sure what it is.  Part of me wants to go over there with a stepladder and investigate further, but I'm hesitant to.  I don't have the means to transport anything 12 feet long right now anyway, so I'd need an "accomplice" if this does indeed turn into a "rescue mission"



Looks like there might even be 3 fixtures!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 07, 2015, 08:49:32 PM
Oh and I forgot to mention yesterday I finished installing the GE/Universal "Total Performance" ballast in the '89 Lithonia 2XF96T12 striplight.  Giving it the test run now, and it seems to run fairly cool.  Warm, but not hot.  It's a little noisy though for being an out-of-the-box new ballast, but slimlines are always loud it seems. 

Lamps being used are '96 Sylvania F96T12/CW/SS 60w cool white energy savers.  They did striate at first but actually warmed up pretty well.  They don't striate now. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 08, 2015, 03:10:01 PM
Ah cool! Glad to hear it works. I tested out that Westinghouse OV-400 ballast I got and it seems to work fine too. It gets hot at warm up but actually cools down a little after once the current goes back down. Since it's an NPF 400W MV ballast, it's horribly inefficient and probably pulls a couple amps when warming up lol. I tested it outside. The lamp warmed up and the ballast quieted down a little once the lamp fully warmed up and it wasn't scorching hot after a half-hour, but was warm (mainly the smaller coil was warm, the larger coil was still pretty cool to the touch).

Also, there is a SLIGHT chance I COULD end up with one of the six-lamp F32T8 highbays from the votech building at my school. COULD, MAYBE, SLIGHT CHANCE lol. Lamps and all right now, with the chain but minus the cord and motion sensor. They're not done in the building yet (but it's completed enough to allow us back into the building) so the light might disappear before they're all done. There were some 2X4 lensed troffers that were ripped out of the bathroom that are in the boiler room now but I didn't go peaking in there since that was the construction people's "man cave" where they have all their crap until they wrap up the renovation.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 08, 2015, 09:22:13 PM
Neat! This the one from the busted up roadkill light from Rocky Point?

Couple amps? That'd be 240w! More like 5-6 amps more likely!

Good luck! That'd be a nice plant light, or the garage would be nice and bright! I'd stick 8000K lamps in there LOL.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 09, 2015, 02:27:51 PM
Yep that's the one. Yeah it's definitely a few. I forgot, we're talking about something that NORMALLY draws 3-1/3 amps so it definitely pulls a lot of power, especially to heat up the extension cords at the plugs (the cable itself doesn't get get but where the cord and plug meet gets noticeably warm, telling me it could very well be pulling 8 or 9 amps at start-up!) Not sure why anyone would want a fixture to have an NPF ballast at such a high wattage but whatever... At least with NPF HID ballasts they're still full power, just minus the PF-correcting capacitor. Fluorescents are reduced output which is stupid, but the light would draw too much current if it wasn't reduced. The 4-lamp LBF, HPF Sylvania IS ballast I replaced in my math class was rated 0.8A and the 4-lamp NBF, NPF residential Advance IS ballast is rated for 1.57A IIRC! That's pretty close to a full amp more of current drawn just because the capacitor is omitted! (and because the lamps are being driven a little brighter too). The Advance could be LBF or NBF though. The lamps are brighter (/741s) but it could just be because they have no use whereas the other lights have been in use since 2011. Triphosphors dim more than halophosphors.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Solanaceae on September 09, 2015, 06:53:14 PM
Mike, if you plan on trading of selling that ballast, I'd love to have one for my ov-25 Silverliner. :)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 10, 2015, 05:50:01 AM
I think I'm going to keep it but if I decide I no longer want it, you'll be the first person I contact. 8)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 12, 2015, 06:22:24 PM
So I replaced the dusk to dawn fixture lighting the outside of my house AGAIN today.  I wasn't happy with the optics from the "coach" style fixture that replaced that plastic LOA POS, nor the fact it is GU24 CFL (I despise those kind of fixtures/lamps) and the fact the PC was in a bad spot for a light being under an eve, it almost never shut off except on really bright days.  So I took the head of a regular "jelly jar" style porch light, drilled a hole in the fixture head, starting with a small drill bit and working my way up in size, then stuck in a little button PC from a Fake-Westinghouse Gu24 CFL outside light I had.  I had to reposition the socket slightly (a ceramic socket to boot!) to make it fit, so the bulb/socket is now slightly off-center but unless you really look it isn't terribly noticeable.  It was a decent little midmorning project.  Went according to plan too, for once!  I didn't have a true jelly-jar globe (I want to find one, I might buy one next time I'm in a hardware store) but for now I stuck on a very 1970s looking smoked-glass clear globe off of a 4" globe base light I removed from my pantry.  (It was hooked up to '90s looking Romex and a blue Carlon box but I suspect it is older; my house has a lot of re-used materials).  I don't care for how it looks with the spherical globe but it works for now. Current lamp is a "Western Family" (Feit-in-disguise) 13w 6500K spiral.  We'll see how bright it is tonight.  ;D  But...the photocell actually shuts the light off during the day!  We'll see how light-sensitive it turns out to be...I was really impressed with how that cheap POS LOA PL13 light did in terms of not turning on before it was truly needed. 

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 12, 2015, 07:14:55 PM
LOL those fixtures seem really junky! Yeah I hate GU24 socket fixtures. The only reason those sockets are used is to prevent incandescents from being used. Nice jelly jar light mod. I'm sure it will preform better than any Chinese junky fixture you had.

I love those sphere wall lights, especially the opal globe ones with preheat PLs. I also like the opal sphere post top lights. Very basic and throws light in all directions (including up lol) but there's something soothing about the diffused light coming from the opal globe. Kinda cool that they just look like fluorescing orbs of light lol.

Yeah that's where a twist-lock photocell really comes in handy, since you can just swap the PC out without rewiring it if it goes bad or doesn't match the sensitivity you want. I've thought about having all my PCs "scored" on their sensitivity on a 1-to-10 scale but haven't had the time. I had them all cataloged from most sensitive to least sensitive but don't know what happened to that list. It was a few years ago too, so my PC collection was a fraction of its current size.

Currently, the 1987 M-250A2 FCO is mounted outside on the deck with its 250W MH/MV Powr/Module and a new 250W metalarc lamp. The 1965 M-250R is mounted on the shed with an 80s 175W/DX GE merc IIRC. The M-250A2 has a 1989 Ripley photocell that I swear gets less and less sensitive every time I use it. The M-250R has a mid-60s to 1970 tall Ripley photocell that is still very sensitive. I actually have the PC window partially obstructed so the PC "sees" darkness faster. The duo light up my yard very well. The M-250A2 is nice because the FCO light does not disturb neighbors. 250W MH lights up my yard well too (equal to a 400W merc! :o ) but I definitely wouldn't use it dusk-to-dawn lol. The M-250R does a good job lighting its area too. I might have to adjust the socket or something since it's a glare bomb though lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 12, 2015, 10:57:33 PM
Which one is junky? LOA products or anything GU24?

Yeah, the light this replaced was decently made (although Chinese) other than being a hated GU24-socket unit.  I knew they were to prevent incandescent lamps from getting used.  But, somewhere (forget where) I read that apparently now GU24>E26 adapters are allegedly made.  Granted, even if I'd had one, I would have used a CFL but the whole adapter/lamp assembly wouldn't have fit.    But yeah, this outperforms both of its predecessors.  It's nicer at night with the 6500K IMO, it's not as harsh as the 2700K is and looks more "moonlight-ish".   It'll be much better for sure, particularly if I use a higher-wattage lamp, which I may end up doing once my overnight power situation improves further.  (I'm going to need a bigger battery bank if I keep adding stuff!) It's funny how much the electrical demand for this house has fluctuated over the years.  I'm sure it started off in the 1970s or 1980s being powered by most likely a POS, loud, unreliable Briggs & Stratton or something, then it got upgraded in the 90s-ish to a 20Kw Isuzu diesel (I'll admit, at one point in time this house was an illegal grow-op so they needed power for all their lights; it was blatantly obvious given all the heavy-duty wiring and the boxes and boxes of used 400w MH and 1000w HPS lamps and ballasts laying around; that's where the Lithonia 400w highbay heads came from, they came with the house).  Then when we bought it there was a non-functional 12Kw Isuzu diesel here (dead 20Kw sitting under a tarp in the backyard for well over a decade).  Like I said it was dead (Toasted generator head) so we had to implement our own situation.  The place also came with a set of (6) 2-volt gel-cell batteries hooked up in series to produce 12 volts which was ran through a 1980s Heart Interface "Freedom 25" 2500 watt inverter/charger.  I've been told by the previous owners (Well, 3 owners ago, my dad bought the place from the ex-wife who got it in the divorce and later it was given to me) that those batteries were great, IDK what the amp-hours were but they could apparently run for days on end without starting a generator, even running stuff like a clothes washer without the generator.  When we got the place we brought a little Honda 2000 watt gas portable with us for a generator, and with the help of an electrician friend analyzed the ridiculous spaghetti dish of Romex known as this house at that point.  It had two breaker panels in the bathroom, stuff just added on top of stuff, Romex run on top of drywall, that sort of stuff.  (Most of this IN A BATHROOM!).  So it took some patience and tracing stuff down to figure out what they had had going on up until 8 years prior. The Heart Interface turned out to be DOA; IIRC it smoked itself when powered up for the first time in 7-8 years after sitting in a damp, unlived-in house with roof leaks, etc.  So we swapped it immediately for a 1997 Trace Engineering  2000w unit we had.  I remember we tried charging the dead gel-cells and had that poor little Honda revved up to the max (100 amp 12v charger, without losses that's 1200w of 120v, plus running other stuff in the house now) for days on end.  One of the first things I did was take a neon tester and check the grounding on every receptacle in the house to see if they were grounded, as well as what was hot and what wasn't!  Since the batteries that came with the place ended up being toast, for quite awhile we had a pair of Group 27 12 volt car batteries hooked up in parallel with car jumper cables for power when the little Honda wasn't running.  They did surprisingly well for what they were.  First upgrade was a pair of 8-D 12 volt batteries for more capacity.  Around the same time we acquired a 6500-watt Honda gas generator to use for larger loads where the little 2000 watter didn't cut it very well (Especially once we got a washer and dryer!).  It was cantankerous, noisy, and broke down frequently, so we only ran it when we absolutely had to, like laundry day or when using power tools.  But you could at least do laundry and run other stuff in the house at the same time! It was a milestone being able to have lights going, a load in the washer, and be using the chop saw at the same time (Still actively renovating every day at that point).  Later, that 6500 crapped out (Thanks to me hooking the starting battery up backwards, frying a diode!) so we were then back to the 2000w for awhile until we borrowed a 3000w Honda unit from a friend, which was electric-start and had a larger gas tank (2-some gallons vs. 1 gallon).  As it wasn't ours, we used it sparingly, only when needed (Like during Christmas, case in point, with a good-sized C9 light display going).  Finally we got the used 3-cylinder 10Kw Isuzu diesel we'd had for 2 and a half years by that point hooked up.  It worked (and does!) work well, but it hadn't proven itself yet and so I only used it for laundry day, etc.  This was also because my dad hooked it up literally the day before taking off for 3 months and I wasn't equipped to mess with it if anything had gone wrong).  It started having issues with overheating, which ended up being a stuck thermostat not opening, about 2 months into this.  And this was at being ran for 2 or 3 hours, 2 or 3 times a week at most.  Finally Dad got that issue fixed and we used it as our primary source of electricity until the exhaust system broke a weld (It vibrated apart).  It ran fine but spewed exhaust everywhere which was a safety issue being in a room attached to the house).  I had to run it a few times for REALLY big loads of laundry or power tools like this, with all the windows in the house open LOL.  Since the little 2000w Honda DEFINITELY wasn't cutting it now (Electrical demands had grown from just a few lights, Internet, chest freezer, stereo, etc) we took the plunge for a 3000 watt Honda gasser like the one we'd borrowed.  Great little generator, like it's 2000 watt cousin.  Just less portable, taking 2 people to move instead of 1, quieter, (Especially under heavy loads) and about the same in terms of fuel economy (Bigger engine, but running less hard with a given load than a 2000w would be, thus better gas mileage).  So we ran the house off that for 8 months as our only source of electricity, (Well, charging batteries too) from this January until yesterday when my dad finally fabricated up the new exhaust for the Isuzu 10Kw diesel for me :) Only things I don't like about this generator (Which will hopefully be the LAST for awhile) is that (1) it's really loud, even indoors (I can hear it indoors) and (2) either the hertz/cycles and/or the voltage regulator are out of adjustment; I'd think cycles but someone at a votech school in Seward, AK told me it's the voltage regulator that goes out and then it sits there "looking" for the right voltage) so there's this rather annoying ~10Hz (I'd guess, too quick to count) flicker in all the lights.  I'm typing underneath HPF GE Bonusline full-power magnetic rapid start in the first Sears shoplight I got 2-1/2 years ago and it's very obvious.  I can stand it looking at the computer but I think if I was concentrating on writing something by hand or some other highly visual task like working on a model airplane it would drive me nuts.  Granted, one of the lamps is a CWX, which, like /950, are inherently "flickery" no matter what.  (The other is the '86 GE F40CW)

Why not use the 250w MH all night? Too bright, and/or too much on the electric bill?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 13, 2015, 10:19:58 AM
LOA is junky but those GU24 fixtures are usually pretty junky too because they're often made entirely out of plastic since the manufacturer knows high-heat incandescent lamps will never be used in them so metal and glass are not needed.

Yep GU24-to-E26 adapters are made but it would never fit in a regular fixture. The E26-to-GU24 adapters are much more compact so they'll be more apt to fit in a standard fixture, and they won't come out either because of a spring that prevents the adapter from being unscrewed.

Wow a lot of generator history there! Your house has certainly had a growing demand for energy lol. I don't think CWXs are flickery like /950, at least none of mine are. They're nice and steady, just odd grow light-like color and very dim lol. The votech building at my school has a generator and the lights on it have a weird flicker to it too.

Yeah 250W is too much energy on the bill and plus, I don't really have any reason to light the yard at night anyway since there's no squatters or anything in my area lol. And no one else has dusk-to-dawn lights in their backyards so I don't want to be "that guy" lol. But I like to be capable of lighting my yard like a parking lot when needed lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 13, 2015, 12:12:55 PM
This one actually had glass and metal involved! Yeah, I hate those kind of adapters.  Kind of like the old fuse adapters that prevent a wrong size fuse from being used.

LOL yeah.  I always laugh when stuff like a 150 amp service has to be upgraded to a 200 amp service because I'm just now up to 40A! (Two 20 amp breakers, nowhere the rated amount for this generator.  But I plan to change that).

Yeah I need to put more lights up outside LOL.  I think I'm the only house around here with any dusk to dawn light.  So I am indeed "that" neighbor. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 13, 2015, 08:14:34 PM
I don't know how many amps my service is, but I assume 200A since that seems to be the standard service for new homes. It's either 200 or 100 and 100 seems too low, though I can't imagine pulling 24000 watts at once lol.

OK, no planned date for the removal of the final F40T12 Western Electric fixture. I haven't had a Friday off in a few weeks now lol. So far, I have three of the Western Electric ones, each with a different ballast! One has a 0.8A Therm-O-Matic, one has a GE Bonusline, and the other has an Advance Fuse-Link 0.77A ballast. Who knows what the last one will have! Let's hope for a Therm-O-Matic since they're my favorite (because they seem to be the most reliable). I have no place for any more F40s with my current boxes so I'll have to work something out...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on September 13, 2015, 09:18:04 PM
GEsoftwhite100watts:
40A :o :o so little power .lol. I couldn't do it
Just curious - why don't you just go on the grid instead of generators & batteries?
Is it a personal choice of wanting to be "off grid"
Or is there no electric utility in your area?

I personally would love to add solar as a DIY project... not so much go "off grid" (wouldn't be practical anyway), but enough to pull the plantlights & fishtanks off grid/paid power :)
I bet doing so would make a nice drop in the utility bill (thing is I don't know if it'd ever really pay for itself?)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 13, 2015, 11:16:06 PM
Because there is no grid power where I live.  Otherwise, you bet I'd jump right on the bandwagon, even if it was more expensive!

I think solar would be a great idea in your case! Ever heard of those grid-tie solar systems?

We had a house in Sitka, AK  with a 100 amp service that was built in '55 and redone in the '70s-'80s.  Seemed high for a tiny little house of that era but it was all-electric, electric stove, electric water heater, electric clothes dryer, electric baseboard heat (Which we didn't use).  At that time electric homes were popular, when the town had hydroelectricity and more power than it knew what to do with (Hence the 150w HPS streetlights on literally every pole on dirt roads, etc; the skyglow over a town of only 9,000 people is ridiculous; I've seen cities of 40,000 that had way less!).  By the late 2000s-early 2010s the grid was getting overloaded, particularly in winter! So the town would have to supplement the hydro with diesel generators, and the surcharge on your electric bill would be quite steep! Just now they expanded the hydro last year but we'll see how that pays off...
Title: !!!cipoT cipoT-ffO ehT :eR
Post by: Mike on September 14, 2015, 06:28:41 PM
OK, well my main breaker panel is four 200A panels joined together by a bar. Normally 240V breakers are made of two 120V breakers joined together but unsure why there's four since I have 240V service like anyone else. Unless the breaker disconnects the neutral too? But then there'd still be an extra breaker... Oh well, whatever lol. Still 200A service either way lol. The subpanel in the utility room is 100A. It controls the downstairs lights (including those in the garage, but not the light in the garage opener; the garage door and outlets in the garage each have their own breakers connected to the main panel in the garage). Aside from downstairs lights, the subpanel also controls the timer for the front outlet outside, the downstairs outlets, the washer, dryer, and HVAC unit. The HVAC and clothes dryer use up most of the power on the 100A subpanel lol.

I don't know where the breakers for the outside lights or outlets are (aside from the front yard outlet, which is timer controlled). There is no breaker labeled for outside lights or outlets. In my great-aunt's house, the outside outlets and lights are just tied into the nearest indoor circuit lol. She has an outlet outside the living room and it's on the same circuit as her living room outlets and lights lol. Her outlets and lights share circuits, likely to save wiring, but it's foolish to do that since if the breaker trips because of an overloaded outlet, you get plunged into darkness, which is kinda stupid IMO. Plus the circuits are laid out pretty screwy. The upstairs is split into two circuits, and one room had half of the outlets on one circuit and the other half on the other circuit (each duplex was on a single circuit though; no split-circuit receptacles).

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on September 14, 2015, 09:43:00 PM
@GEsoftwhite100watts:
I'm a bit shocked that no grid power :lol:

I have electric stove, & electric clothes dryer, but heat & hot water is natural gas (that's pretty much the standard setup here). Electric heat would generate a killer bill here :o I wouldn't want to see that

Sounds like Sitka went overboard with the street lighting when power was radially available!
Where I'm at the skyglow is pretty bad -- forget any sorta stargazing activity here,  but...the difference is I'm just outside a big-ish city!

@Mike:
Mine's 150a and has a 4-pieced breaker like that too

And LOL on reading "Plus the circuits are laid out pretty screwy. " ... Same thing here, I really don't get why they wire things the way they do. If I was ever wiring up a house, every room would have its own 20a breaker (minimum)... none of this 2 rooms on the same 15a, or bits & pieces spread over multiple rooms.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 15, 2015, 09:52:57 AM
I knew some friends who lived in an all-electric mobile home in a town whose power was all from diesel, and their bill was always like 400 bucks a month!

It's bad in Sitka too!

Wow, never heard of a service panel like that! The most confusing thing I've seen to date was an off-grid house someone bought and was moving into that had a 3-phase panel reconfigured in such a way as to have stuff off an inverter that was hot all the time and stuff off a generator that was only hot when the generator was on in one panel for simplicity (Or lack thereof!) It took some real head-scratching and inviting multiple electrically-inclined neighbors over to figure it out!  I know I was really baffled!

I hate that too.  At our old house in Atascadero, CA the panel had (And probably still has) multiple breakers just marked "Plugs" or "Lighting".  That was confusing! It ended up being all the lighting for one level (4 story house) was on a separate breaker, which I guess does make sense since if an overloaded outlet trips a breaker the ceiling lights still work, or if the lighting circuit trips you still probably have table lamps, etc. that work.  But I would have labeled it like "3rd flood lighting" or "Loft plugs".
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 15, 2015, 03:40:02 PM
I don't mind multiple rooms sharing breakers but integrated room lighting and wall outlets should be separate IMO and the breakers should be split purposefully lol. My room and my brother's room share a 15A AFCI breaker, which I think is OK; it's more than enough for two 10X10 bedrooms but that breaker doesn't also control the bathroom vanity light lol. My parents have their own breaker for their room's outlets. All three bedrooms plus the three rooms' closet lights share a breaker, all lighting. The kitchen and bathrooms are all 20A per code requirement.

Yeah lighting and outlets on the same circuit makes no sense because if an outlet gets overloaded, the whole area is plunged into darkness. The odds of the lighting breaker tripping are slim to none since lighting breakers are hardly ever anywhere near the max load. I know for my house, the entire basement has one breaker for lighting and it. It's a 15A breaker originally configured for 600 watts (four 60W incandescents and four 90W incandescents), or just 5A. It's currently controlling roughly 750 watts (roughly because I just rounded up to the nearest round number for ballast losses) or 6.25A. Outlets are tricky because you don't know how much power they'll draw since you don't know what gets plugged into it (save for dedicated high-draw outlets like for a dryer or stove).

My panels are pretty well-labeled. There is no label regarding outdoor lighting or outlets though, so I don't know which breaker controls them, or if there is even a breaker that does control them! My dad and I just got impatient flipping through nearly all the breakers so we just shut off the main breaker and it did the trick lol. This was when we replaced the original brass fixtures with bronze finish ones since the brass was all worn and ugly. We later ended up replacing the pair of outdoor lights by the garage because one was taken out by a basketball at a summer cookout. We couldn't find the exact fixtures, as we assumed would be so, since you can never find the same outdoor lighting at Lowes or HD when you come back since that's how they get you... So anyway, the garage lights do not match the ones by the stairs anymore and they're made of plastic and do not have PCs whereas the ones by the front steps by the front door are metal (albeit the lowest grade of cast aluminum on earth) and have PCs, which is very convenient for leaving the lights on when we aren't home, since they remain off until it's dark. When we are all home we do not use the outside lights. We only use when when we're expecting someone or one of us isn't home so we have light to see by when we do come home. Anyway, when I replaced the ones on the garage I didn't bother looking for the breaker; I just put a piece of red electrical tape over the wall switch signifying a "tag-out" procedure.

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 15, 2015, 08:21:40 PM
I'm of the type that would have each and every room on a 20 amp breaker for its outlets, but that's just me.  And a 15A lighting circuit for the whole house would likely be just fine.  But that's if I were to wire or rewire an entire house.  I still don't know if doing that would be to code, but around here it is just common sense.  Actually, having each room's outlets on separate 20 amp breakers probably exceeds code!

In my house here, my bedroom is on its own 20 amp breaker, ceiling light and all.  So yeah, if an outlet got overloaded and the breaker tripped the ceiling light wouldn't work either. 

My office/shop, the den/my dad's bedroom, his closet, the dining area, and the major kitchen plugs on the sink counter are ALL ON ONE BREAKER! (20 amp I think). 

The other third of the kitchen (Microwave, toaster oven, vacuum packer, electric mixer, the LP/propane range's electric "click click" ignition, and a few other things) are actually on the living room's circuit.  There's no outlets on the bar counter (Which is a ridiculously tall thing fabbed out of 1/2" CDX plywood I might add; I've wanted to take a sledgehammer to that thing since day one) has no outlets, and the nearest one is on the other side of it.  So there's a 15A power strip for all the appliances there, with another one daisy-chained into it (Code violation!) to reach the stove.   The living room also had the outlets added as an afterthought, so there's just blue plastic Carlon boxes side-nailed in the corners, so faceplates are impossible to fit without cutting, hence there are none.  (Code violation!).  Finally the Romex goes inside a wall we drywalled, but nothing actually got connected after that.  However, when/if that gets done, there will be a 175w mercury yardblaster outside on the living room/part of the kitchen breaker.  So if that tripped it wouldn't work, but I don't think that is a huge deal. 

The kitchen lights and a couple other outlets there are on another totally separate breaker, as is one outlet in the bathroom (Code violation: having the bathroom right off the kitchen I might add) since it was added later (other side of the wall, nearest junction box to tap into was one of those outlets).  It's also not a GFCI and it's the sink counter outlet!  And the vanity light...is a brooder light plugged in/unplugged, sometimes with admittedly wet hands (Code violation!)

The bathroom light, the other two outlets in there (It's a laundry room too, washer and dryer are in there), mud room, and generator room are all on another breaker.  It used to be different but I don't remember what breaker.  (My dad redid a bunch of the wiring in there but it's still not all up to code).  But it's "safe" nevertheless, what he did do was wired solidly, even if probably still not to code).

And the "crossbar" of a T-shaped hallway is on its own breaker, lights and outlets. 
And the other part of the "T" and the pantry are are on yet another.
Home office is on yet another
Shop/garage is on one by itself, but get this: It's feed is Romex strung about a foot below the (Drywalled; was obviously an afterthought) ceiling from the back of the breaker panel (Bathroom is on the other side of the entryway wall) through the hallway to the garage/shop on the other side.  Perfect place to zip-tie a phone wire to as well...well maybe not.  (Really big code violation!)

Now if you're not already choked up laughing, it gets even better: The feed INTO the main breaker is #12 Romex.  Hence, the main breaker for the panel is 20A too! So really if anything got overloaded, it'd be that.  So the vast majority of the house, and everything that works when the generator is not running, would go dead at once.  Lights, outlets, you name it.  That's upgrade-able though and I plan to do so, since the bathroom isn't totally finished yet so I could run heavier wire into the panel and have at least a 60 amp main or something.  (With my generator that's all I'd really need anyway).  I'm not going to bother changing little things like my bedroom light and all its outlets on the same breaker, more work than it's worth.  The one I might change though is having half the kitchen and half the upstairs on one breaker, since I plan to someday tear into that wall anyway.  But we've NEVER tripped my little 20 amp main, in over five years of living here.   

So yeah...The circuits are laid out pretty screwy!  Granted, it's what happens when you have a house that was built at literally ten different times, like I do.

And the legend on my panel is a total dirty liar by now...so many "upgrades" and changes over the years.  The very least I could/should do is go label it properly. 

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on September 15, 2015, 10:31:09 PM
Quote from: GEsoftwhite100watts
I think solar would be a great idea in your case! Ever heard of those grid-tie solar systems? 
They actually offer grid-tie solar systems here (& if you don't use all the power generated, I hear its designed so the meter spins backwards!)
All that would be far too complicated & expensive for. I'd want something more simple that just runs the mentioned lights (and uses grid power as a backup)...


Quote from: Mike
My room and my brother's room share a 15A AFCI breaker, which I think is OK; it's more than enough for two 10X10 bedrooms
Actually.. no.. its not enough. .lol.
(now, granted I have more 'stuff' than "normal", but thats the whole idea why I believe 20a per room _minimum_ (I don't care if the room lights are on the same circuit as the outlets))

Have a similar setup where 2 bedrooms share a 15a. There's my bedroom, and a spare bedroom...in mine is ofcourse my computers/stereo/plants/etc, the spare bedroom is mostly storage, but there's an extra computer (almost never used) and I stuck my printer in there due to lack of space...... If I need to print something during the 'day' (when my plantlights are on) & I have both computers & stereo on, I need to make sure the lights in that spare bedroom are off before turning on the printer...otherwize it'll be a trip out to the breakerbox


Quote from: GEsoftwhite100watts
But we've NEVER tripped my little 20 amp main, in over five years of living here.   
I'd trip that every single day ... and some of my xmas displays probably woulda blown it right out of the box .LOL.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 16, 2015, 10:00:26 AM
Well you could have your Christmas displays just off a generator.  But I'm amazed I've never tripped it either.  Despite being a lighting enthusiast, I just don't use very much power!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 16, 2015, 02:49:46 PM
Andy:
20A per room? Depends on the size of the room I guess. If each room was on its own breaker it would just be too many breakers and too many wires going all over the place. The rule for code is that the breaker must not be more than 80% loaded (I'm sure you know that). Each outlet is given a "rating" at 1.5A under the code when laying out circuits. So, that means you can have ten outlets on a 20A circuit, so as long as you do not have more than 10 outlets in those rooms, it's code-compliant. Otherwise it's not.

 I sure wouldn't want the whole house on one lighting breaker. I would at least separate it by floor. If I'm working on a light or doing something that requires the lighting breaker to be shut off, there's no sense in cutting out the lights in the entire house. Makes no sense.

Technically yes, power strips or extension cords plugged into other power strips or extension cords is against code but it's not a big deal. It's done all the time. Code applies more to hardwired/permanent situations. If you want to talk code violations, the stove (or any major "permanent" appliance) being plugged into an extension is a code violation itself. All major appliances such as the fridge, stove, dishwasher, microwave that is wall-mounted over the stove and serves also as an exhaust fan, etc must have their own receptacle in close proximity and for new construction, on their own circuits. I have an electric stove so I believe it is 240V so it would have its own circuit.

That living room sounds like a nightmare with the outlets added. If you ever do a major remodel that involves ripping the walls back to their studs I would totally rewire the house lol. Out of curiosity, why would you think a bathroom off the kitchen is a code violation? I know of a lot of homes that have a bathroom right off the kitchen/dining room area. The breaker panel in your bathroom is the bigger issue. :P LOL It could possibly be a local code thing in some situations but in general, there isn't a rule about bathrooms off of kitchens, at least that I am aware of. Looked around online and didn't find anything.



@ xmaslightguy:
Yeah I wouldn't mind having the lighting solar powered and possibly solar hot water. If it was practical to have everything off-grid I would but if the solar went down or something I could easily just plug in a spare fluorescent or two to have some light, or if the grid power went out I would still have lights, albeit no other power. I could easily tap into the lights too for power with those screw-in plugs. I'd just use one of those code-violation-by-default nongrounded-to-grounded receptical adapters for three-prong plugs lol.

Uhh, obviously it's enough power since the breaker has never tripped. Remember, it's my house we're talking about, not yours. ;) 20A for a 10X10 bedroom is ridiculous. There's no reason for a room that small to be drawing up to 2400 watts! I admit, I would rather have my own 15A breaker or share a 20A breaker with my brother just to have the means to use more power if I had to but all my brother plugs into his outlets is his alarm clock, radio, table lamp he never uses on his dresser, desk lamp, and iPod when it's charging. I definitely use more power than him lol. I have my alarm clock, radio, desk lamp, F14 strip over my bed, street light display, laptop, electric analog wall clock, exit sign, light-up do not enter sign, and electric razor. Most of those things I rarely use and none are high-draw things (the street light display would take the most power, but no more than 4 amps). A 10X10 room is really small. I have five outlets in my room and my brother also has five (the math doesn't add up though since code allows 8 max for a 15A circuit, so maybe the circuit is actually 20A. IDK. I'll have to check and get back to you guys).

The energy rate here is around 9 cents per kWh. Our kWh usage was 788 in March 2015 and was 1905 for August 2015 according to our billing history. The latest bill was about 200 dollars. I don't think we use a ton of electricity, but not sure if 788-1905 kWh per month is a lot or not. Yikes sounds like you need to add a circuit! Obviously easier said than done though lol. As for the lighting being on the same circuit as the outlets, that's a pet-peeve of mine lol. I thought it was a code violation flat-out, but it's actually compliant in new construction to do that as well. The only exception is that kitchen receptacle circuits, small appliance (stove, fridge, etc) receptacle circuits, and bathroom receptacle circuits feeding more than one bathroom cannot have lighting on them, only outlets (and small appliance receptacles must be on their own dedicated circuit anyway, so not even other receptacles can be on the circuit, old houses being grandfathered in of course).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 16, 2015, 07:46:37 PM
I personally think there's nothing wrong with too many wires as long as they're laid out properly.  I'd just need a bigger panel, or to add a sub-panel. 
That living room is going to be ripped off the house anyway, there's foundation issues at stake there.  Plus the three other additions added onto it, all built "wrong" anyway.  So a bunch of code violations would go at once.  I'd have the living room outlets on one breaker, the new lighting there on another (But make it so I could add to that lighting circuit) and add a circuit for the kitchen stuff, including an outlet for the stove, which is moving anyway; a wood cook stove is going in that spot and the range is going on the other side of the kitchen wall most likely, in what's now part of that T-shape hallway.  Opening up that wall would give the opportunity to fix the issue of half the house being on one 20 amp breaker.  (Which has never tripped, but here again...)
And the breaker panel could be turned around into the hallway...so wires still go to the same place. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 16, 2015, 08:07:56 PM
Nothing wrong but the cost. Running a bazillion circuits is going to get expensive, especially if they're all 20A. If each room was on its own dedicated circuit 15A should be sufficient in most cases.

I would LOVE to help with all those renovations. I love doing renovation work (though always hate the fact that unplanned obstacles always make themselves known once the project has started lol).

BTW, the fourth-and-final Western Electric F40/RS fixture is going to be removed this Friday if all goes as planned. ;D I'll finally have all seven fixtures under one roof!

So here's a current list of fixtures in the family that are on my "hit list":

Grandma's house:
- F90T17 preheater over my late-grandpa's desk (replacement fixture on-hand, a 2X F32T8 fixture with /835 Sylvania 32W lamps)
- POSSIBLY the three lamp F20T12 preheat half-piper in their basement as well. Never really like halfpiper fixtures and the fixture would be a b!tch to remove. Will probably just leave it there.

Great-Aunt's house (aforementioned Grandma's sister):
-8ft F40T12 preheat tandem light in her garage. That one's gonna be tricky since it's 8ft. I might end up leaving it. The lamps in it are just 2008 Alto /DXs I put in.

Cousins' Grandma's garage and basement:
- Six F40 preheat shoplights, three replacement fixtures are at her garage, lamps and all, and I have the other three replacement fixtures on-hand, though I haven't asked her about replacing her lights yet. I don't think she'd want me to.

Then of course my aunt and uncle's house (different from my cousins' parents, whose house is attached to their grandma mentioned above) with their fixtures, but who knows with them. They're so busy and disconnected from us they might have just tossed them out. :o :(
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 16, 2015, 10:03:09 PM
Yeah, when you buy all new wire and devices, which I would, yeah it would get pricy. 

All this talk about laying out circuits in a screwy/non-screwy manner inspired me to start doing some wiring in my attic I've been meaning to do for awhile for some light fixtures.  Two single-lamp Lithonia F20 strips with Universal trigger-start ballasts went up tonight.  Same with roughing in (used) Romex, and connecting the fixtures, and wiring up one switch.  None of it is yet hooked to power, I have to run more wire and plan to redo a couple other things in the shop below this to supply it with power.

Mike, are you saying you'd want to come up here someday to the middle of pretty much nowhere (to you) and work on some fellow lighting enthusiast's totally non-up-to-code house? That sounds like a lot of fun! Seriously.     I'd want someone who is enthusiastic about it.  It might be a fun experience for you...you could see more of the world, a different lifestyle, and see some really bad code violations.  And be surrounded by preheat and rapid start fluorescents, you'd feel right at home. 
Yeah, you never know until you tear open walls!

Good luck! 

"Hit List"...that made me laugh! I actually took a screenshot of part of that post, since I've had this idea to put together a compilation of funny (to me) things I've seen on the Internet, all screenshots. Kinda like the "Funny Pictures Game" on here..."Funny Screenshots Game"
Try to get as many lights as you can!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 17, 2015, 03:03:36 PM
Ah cool about the attic lighting work. No, I'm saying I'd love to, but never would lol. Unless you lived within 50 miles or so of me lol. If I was 100% reimbursed for travel I certainly would though lol. I love finishing unfinished areas and adding electrical stuff. Plumbing is not my thing though. I've actually never done any plumbing work though, which is why I'm no good since I've never touched a soldering iron or a welding tool lol.

Thanks! I have no clue what ballast will be in this Western Electric light since so far, all three have different ballasts! One has a slightly battered GE Bonusline, one has a pristine Therm-O-Matic, and the one I removed a few weeks back has a 0.77A Advance Fuse-Link ballast. Hopefully the fourth's got a Therm-O-Matic. ;D The last fixture has one TrueValue F40/CW lamp and one Sylvania F40/CWX, just like the second one. The first was the only one with two True Value F40/CWs. I have actually ran out of room for my 4ft lamps! I tried installing lamps in the fixtures I have stored out in the shed but I feel it's too easy for them to get broken. Besides, all the lights except for the WE lights have the sockets inside of the fixture, since I un-mounted the sockets so they wouldn't get broken, since I know they would eventually if I didn't. I used painter's tape (blue) over all the holes in any of the fluorescent fixtures to keep bugs and crap out. Hopefully there's no tape residue when I eventually take the fixtures down. If it weren't for the very vintage 1962 F40/RS Universal ballast in the louverless louvered light I would have tossed the fixture and kept the ballast since the fixture looks pretty stupid without the louvers but I just don't have the heart to toss such an old fixture, especially now that I've put time and money into repainting it.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 17, 2015, 07:17:56 PM
Well, we'd have to see about travel LOL.  I've done plumbing before but only on PEX, not copper.  Never soldered a single thing in my life!  But I've used a propane torch plenty! However, a friend (Same guy with the '71 Deuce and a half I may end up with) has offered to teach me how to use a soldering iron...

Oh wow, post pics of that FuseLink!  I'm secretly hoping for a Therm-O-Matic myself. 

So you have all the TrueValue and Sylvania CWX lamps, right? Sheesh, you're running out of room?  Could you store a case or two of F40s in the "streetlight shack" you're building under the deck, or at least some cases of F20s to make space for F40s?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 18, 2015, 04:56:37 PM
LOL if it were actually practical I would be there in a heartbeat with all kinds of ideas in mind lol. Ah I've never done anything with plumbing. I've worked with PVC and EMT conduit though, which is pipework, but in a different sense lol. Never worked with rigid conduit though. And I've never bent conduit; only used prefab bends or straight pieces.

The fixture's in the shed now. I thought I did take a pic and post it on LG but maybe not. If I ever dig it out again I'll post a pic of it. Maybe the last WE light will have a Fuse-Link too so I can just post a pic of that one... Fuse-Link one is from 1967 IIRC. GE one from 1965 and the Therm-O-Matic is from 1973.

I have all the TrueValue and CWX Sylvania except for one of each, which are still in the last remaining fixture. I will have them soon enough though. Turns out my grandma and aunt came here for supper so next friday is my next shot at replacing it, provided I'm not working them (schedule comes out on Wednesdays).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 19, 2015, 10:57:01 AM
LOL I have my design ideas but someone else to help implement them would be great!

I did more wiring today.  One annoying thing about reusing components from a house teardown is that you get wire with odd lengths, etc..."let's put the light switch here, then!" kind of thing.  (It actually happened for the attic light).  

And since this circuit I did is laid out kinda screwy as a result, there's this one 4X4 galvanized junction box that's the life and soul of this setup.  It's not all hooked up yet but some of the stuff is working now.  You know how it can get confusing when you have a bunch of stuff in a junction box going different places? Especially when you do it all at once so there's umpteen hots, neutrals, and grounds that aren't hooked up to anything so you don't know what they are without tracing your own work? I had that experience.  Because I made this thing up as I went along, with reused wire in weird lengths, the junction box ended up being in such a place as to have, for example, a light fixture with the switch on one side of the junction box, and the fixture on the other side, trying to get the power from the box to both the switch and the fixture.  It was also really confusing, but to a lesser extent, when I hardmounted the Sears light with the .65a Universal and wired it to a switch, also past the fixture and the junction box.  (Power source going to the light, then the switch is on the other side down the line, so the light is in between the power source in the junction box and the switch.  This gets confusing since the black/white wire aren't necessarily hot and neutral anymore).  Then trying to test this whole setup got even more complicated.  For one thing, trying to connect umpteen solid-core wires together in a box so they actually make contact is frustrating to say the least.  (I tried unsuccessfully multiple times to get anything to work).  To avoid confusion, I brought one thing online at a time.  (Adding more to the power-in wire).  I still have one fixture still not hooked up; the one with the junction box in between the switch and the fixture.  I just was getting too frustrated with it for today and also I don't like the re-used light switch for that one, I've decided I want to replace that switch with a new one before I try hooking that up.

The Sears light in the garage I redid has a pair of GE-made Ace lamps, one a F40CW, one a F40S41 in disguise.  The one Lithonia 1XF20 strip has an August 1997 Philips F20T12/WW.

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 19, 2015, 12:58:10 PM
Yeah it's your house so your ideas would be law but I would definitely have input if I saw it in person. I'm no expert on the NEC but there's this Mike Holt website that explains a lot about the code so when I have questions I consult that.

Yeah in general, I will not reuse wire. Even when I get fixtures that already have cords I typically replace them with new cords lol. Unless the wire is recent and in good shape I won't reuse it. I will reuse switches and outlets if they're in good shape but generally I like to work with all-new stuff when doing electrical work, including faceplates, though in my own house I will likely install all NOS faceplates since I really dig those vintage faceplates with the grooves and designs and stuff. I personally prefer using brown switches and outlets, using brown plastic covers in all furnished rooms except for the kitchen and maybe bathrooms, which would have brushed metal covers with the brown switches and outlets. I love the brown/silver combo for commercial installations. My school district uses almond switches and outlets with metal plates. Still better than all plastic but the brown looks better with the silver wallplates IMO. In my basement, if unfinished, any outlets I add would have BX cable with those steel city boxes. Already-existing outlets would have the metal faceplates and brown switches/outlets. Garage would be the same layout as the basement.

Yeash a lot of cables! There is a code rule about the number of cables in a box. It depends on the cubic dimension of the box (stamped on the box, usually inside) and also if there are switches/outlets involved as well as the AWG number and type of wire (single conductor, romex, BX, etc.). I don't know exactly how to figure it out but I'd say if you're having trouble cramming them all in then you probably have too many in there.

Wow you have quite the variety of lamps in use! I have three GE F32T8/SPX35s, one Sylvania F30T12/CW, two GE F48/D/HOs, two GE F8T5/CWs, one Sylvania F20/ww, two GE-made DoIt F40/SP41, two Philips F34T12/CWs, and one Westinghouse F14/CW. As for fluorescent lamps that are not in my own personal fixtures (AKA the closet lights and the light over the computer table that I guess technically I own but am leaving behind when I move out) there are two Sylvania F20T12/CWs, one GE F20T12/D, and three Philips Alto F17T8/ADV30s.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on September 19, 2015, 04:59:26 PM
Just bought a 175W MV GE Crime fighter. I'll post details and pictures later.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 19, 2015, 07:44:56 PM
Yeah, it would be neat to see somebody else's take on how to redo things. 

I re-use stuff all the time, but even new wire can be bad! We had to install an alarm system on the boat (Which was complicated enough to necessitate having an electrician (The one who also an army truck hobbyist) come over every night for a week or so) and we had not one, but TWO runs of #16/2 stranded wire that were bad right off the spool! Took a lot of troubleshooting and patience and a multimeter. 

I fixed my 400w 12v wind turbine today.  (I think anyway).  For almost two years it hasn't worked; it wouldn't spin.  Finally I climbed up there, really yanked on the seized blades, and got them free again.  We had a little hail squall and it spun freely under its own power in the ensuing 20MPH gusts, and I then went and hooked it up once things calmed down again.  I also topped off the water in my three 12-volt 8-D lead-acid house batteries since I was in there hooking up the charge controller again.  (It had been disconnected since it did nothing except help drain the batteries with its LED indicators that are always lit).  I'd shut off my inverter for the house to do this (Just figured it was a good idea) and I'd taken the wingut off one of the batteries (Which I had to loosen and tighten with a small Crescent wrench, scared I'd drop it and cause an arc...(12 volts and a lot of amps can weld just fine for quite awhile; I've heard of it happening if a wrench gets dropped across a battery or something).  Anyway one of the connections sparked and then the inverter did its little self-check which scared the $h!ite out of me when it clicked all its relays back and forth and the battery terminal post sparked a few times).  But it seems to be all hooked up fine again, so now I'm actually Hoping for some nasty weather to see if it works again.   ;D  I'm feeling a little proud of myself LOL.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 20, 2015, 07:45:55 AM
A crimefighter?! SWEET!


Ah cool fix. Hopefully it stays working. Last Sunday (a week ago) I replaced the cord on my shed-mounted street light set-up with a longer one so that way I only need to use one extension cord to connect the street light set-up to the house instead of two. I also had lifted up the cover on the outlet box in-line with the deck-mounted light and water came out of the outlet! Fortunately I had the light unplugged so said outlet, which is wired to the same cord as the street light and plugs into the house. So I took the entire cover off, leaving the loose outlet and the opened box and the box had a bunch of rusty water at the bottom from the outlet's bottom bracket rusting! (the box is cast aluminum to obviously it won't rust).

So I ended up just hitting the box with the hose and washing all the "rust water" out since the box was already wet inside. I also replaced the outlet with another one because the old one was waterlogged and rusty. When I put it back together I sealed everything with liquid electrical tape since apparently gasketing alone is not enough. We'll see how it lasts. This amount of water was the result of a major rain storm. I've never had that much water build up in there before!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 20, 2015, 10:33:43 AM
Oh wow, that's unfortunate!  Yeah, rain and electrical wiring do NOT mix!  Trust me, I know, I live in rainy southeast Alaska...300-ish days a year with measurable precipitation!

Granted, I've seen stuff like those temporary pigtail lampholders wirenutted to bare Romex with a spiral CFL last just fine outdoors for years as porch lights, etc.  (A neighbor has one like that as an area light, and it doesn't work now, but I think it's just the bulb)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 20, 2015, 12:50:22 PM
Yeah fortunately nothing happened as a result of it, other than about a half-hour's work taking off the cover and outlet, washing the rust stains off the box and cover, tossing the outlet after contemplating fixing it, and rewiring in a new outlet. There's probably been a little bit of water in there for a long time looking at how rusted the outlet bracket was. And the ground terminal on the outlet was very corroded too, since the screws are just bare steel. Fortunately I had never plugged it in after the big rain storm because the water was about a third of the way up the box and the bottom of the two hot and neutral terminals were submerged, meaning there would have likely been a direct hot-neutral-ground short. As soon as I lifted the flap on the waterproof cover for the outlet I knew there was a problem when water starting pouring out the three slots on the lower receptacle! I think the outdoor outlet cover design is flawed to begin with and I might change it out for one those clear plastic ones I hate so much is the water continues to build up inside the unit. I could always just omit the outlet and slap a blank cover on the box since I admittedly haven't used the outlet once since it was added to the circuit. I just added it since I figured it would be a good convenience outlet for when it's needed.

While i don't condone exposed wire nuts (indoors or outdoors) I think it would actually be better than my situation (provided the wirenuts are upright and the wires exit the wire nut from the bottom) since with my situation the water was building up and could have shorted line and neutral together whereas with the wirenuts the worst things that could happen would be that the connection corrodes and rots out or it becomes a shock hazard if below 8ft (typical reach of a person unless they're short like I am lol)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 21, 2015, 09:56:51 AM
This one is like 12 feet off the ground, so not too easy to just randomly touch. 

Wow! That's a good thing you didn't plug it in!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 21, 2015, 11:33:57 AM
So I had a friend who is also somewhat electrically inclined (Same one with the '71 deuce and a half I may end up with) laughing SO hard when I was describing all the electrical code violations I described here to him.  (20 amp main for the whole house, etc.).  That and the three-way switches that aren't in a couple places in my house.  I think I even used the phrase, "The circuits are laid out kinda screwy" LOL. 
He wants to stop by the house sometime and see just how many fluorescents are in use...it'll be neat to have a fellow kinda-enthisiast see all the lighting stuff I have. 

And I know everyone will hate me for this, but I'm considering converting all my magnetic F40/RS lights to electronic T8 since those actually seem fairly immune to flicker on generator power with iffy cycles or whatever.  (The ~10Hz flicker in my house is quite noticeable and rather annoying).  I'd probably use daylight, 6500K lamps.  (Probably Sylvania Octrons, my dad has some in use and I like their color and they seem to have held up well since 2013).  For the lights I have that are already T8 I'd keep the existing 3500K lamps in until they die though. 
And don't worry, I won't ever be tossing any old F40/RS ballasts I take out.  They're all just flickery on my power or are cranky about starting (Ungrounded, etc) or both.  Nothing actually wrong with them, and I'll keep collecting more as I find them. 

And the slimlines...although I love magnetic slimlines, same problem with those.  Not sure what I'll do about those, maybe electronic T12 ballasts? Mike, I know you service and relamp your grandfather's slimlines at his auto shop, do you have any experience with the electronic slimline T12 ballasts thus? My godfather has one I found for him at ReStore, which replaced a dead magnetic one, and I haven't seen it working in person yet, but he tells me the 60w lamps don't even striate.  Which sounds like a good thing in my case...perhaps with those ballasts and 75w lamps they'll work OK in the unheated shop.  (A crappy '89 Advance with a bad cap and 60w lamps was like a strobe light out there last winter, it  maybe warmed up fully on a few really hot summer days...the whole time I had it installed out there!
The single-lamp F20T12/TS strips seem fairly immune to the "flicker" so I'll leave those magnetic, and even preheat choke F15T8 undercabinet lights don't seem too awful.  However, a 2-lamp F20/TS LPF strip I have is also really awful flicker-wise, so it'll probably get an electronic ballast too and 6500K F17T8 lamps. 

Funny thing is, before having a generator with cycles issues I was actually contemplating installing the much-hated LED "tubes" in my kitchen lights with bad ballasts so I could just bypass them.  Now I don't think so! (They'd be so horrible to work under in there).

If nothing else, this would get rid of ballasts in use that are: crappy period, cranky about starting, or flickery.  But I won't toss any of them LOL.  Especially full power HPF F40/RS and HPF slimline ballasts!

And I may have a Deuce acquisition update soon.  Wish me luck!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 21, 2015, 02:28:50 PM
Gee I never thought my comment about the circuits being laid out screwy would be so popular lol. I have a couple three-pole switches but most are standard single-switch switches. The upstairs hallway light has two switches controlling it and the chandelier over the staircase has three switches controlling it The garage lights have two switches too. Everything else is just regular switches IIRC.

The T8 instant start troffers in my votech building have a crazy flicker to them when the power goes out and the generator kicks on. Very unclean power and poorly regulated, almost choppy light. Nope no experience with electronic slimline ballasts. Never actually opened up any of his slimlines so you could say I'm not familiar with magnetic slimlines either, aside from the lamps' behaviors, which I assume it what you were getting at. I would guess they'd perform the same way as F32T8/IS except they're 8ft T12 tubes.

Good luck with the deuce! Hopefully this Friday I can get the last remaining Western Electric fixture out of my grandma's garage. I won't find out if I'm working Friday until Wednesday or Thursday since the company's week runs from Friday to Thursday, Wednesday being the day schedules are released but I never work Wednesdays since I have boy scout meetings so I find out Thursday or if my parents go shopping in there on a Wednesday they ask for the schedule for me.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 21, 2015, 11:13:28 PM
It's just so true and well-worded!  Wow you have a lot of switches then! Granted I don't know the floor plan of your house, so I can't really say that I guess. Our place in Atascadero had four stories, thus three staircases, (and the associated three way switches), an outside light in the carport on a 3-way (Which was weird, it was turned on from inside the dining room which had a sliding glass door going out onto the deck above the carport), and a switch in the garage next to the man door going out into the carport.  And the kitchen had three-way switching too for the "illuminated drop ceiling" (Sooooo Eighties; the house was built in '88)
But I think that's the only house I've lived in with three-way switches as far as I know.  Maybe one other, but I was too young to remember and I've explored the trashed, abandoned house more recently but of course the power is gone so I wouldn't know. 

My godparents' house, however, has either three or four switches for their hallway light.  (Tiny little hallway too!).  Very '70s (1978 to be exact) setup with recessed amber mottled glass square fixtures!  (And parquet "Dance Club" flooring and it even had the 70s birch doors and bronze hardware until a few years ago...but the orange peel drywall is still there!) What's really funny IMO about that house is that part of it was at one point all 70s looking while the rest was/is remodeled into super modern...big windows, stainless kitchen appliances, etc.  Much bigger rooms too, they practically tore down half the house.  So while the kitchen and living room are huge, the rest of the house is still all tiny bedrooms, etc.  On the outside it's half 1978 1-story "ranch" (But NOT raised ranch) house, then the rest looks really modern.  Kinda reminds me of mine in terms of not-matchingness LOL.  But I like houses like that. 
The cheap residential shoplight-or basket-wrap-grade electronic ballasts are flickery on poorly regulated  generator power too, just like their crappy LPF magnetic older cousins.  The HPF commercial-grade units, which I'd get, are much better.  (Again, like their magnetic counterparts!).  I have nothing against electronic ballasts, though I still think magnetic lasts way longer and has more character LOL.
So thus you've never seen a slimline ballast in person? They're a brick compared to a F40/RS!  If you find a NOS ballast like that at a ReStore or garage sale or something, get it even if you don't have a fixture! They're only going to get rarer and who knows, maybe I'd trade it for something else LOL.
I'm thinking they will perform the same too.  Same 600 OCV (Less than a magnetic slimline, ironically, unlike their 4' counterparts), same HPF F40/RS-length case, (Annoying when you have to drill and TEK screw the new ballast), same wiring diagram, etc.  (For the Advance 120-177v unit I found at ReStore to revitalize a Thomas Lighting F96 strip with a bad Lumi-Kon magnetic ballast, anyway)

Thanks! I doubt anything would actually happen until June anyway but he is heading down there for some hand surgery in October so hopefully I can get him to do a good photo essay and know what I am getting into (Or know to run far, far away from a total money sinkhole!)  The joke among other MV (Military Vehicle) enthusiasts on one MV forum I'm on is that they're like boats: you're always dumping money into them! I know that firsthand LOL, trying to get out from under a 72' wood boat that is a constant project I've just decided I don't want to devote my entire life to.  But that's ANOTHER story!
But we'll see if this even pans out. If not, I'm not disappointed either; I have a lot going on and I've only barely started the driver ed process, and still haven't gotten behind the wheel. I might get my first experience with that in December/January, then go to a drivers' ed place in Juneau and drop $600 for that but I think it's worth it.  Then I'd possibly be driving around on Oklahoma City, OK freeways in a friend/former co-worker's Honda (Accord I think)? around Atascadero/Templeton, CA (Some freeway driving, some dirt roads, some residential streets, some 2-lane highway, in fact some of which many car commercials are filmed on) in a little Geo Metro (Tiny 2-door stick shift with like 44MPG!) and then possibly road-tripping from Port Townsend, WA to Sitka or Juneau, AK, in the potential '71 Deuce acquisition.  So I'd basically go from not knowing much at all to a LOT of driving in the space of less than a month, on everything from bouncy 1-lane dirt roads to really urban freeway in everything from a tiny 2-door stick shift to a 2.5 ton army  6X6.  I know, it sounds crazy.

If the Deuce thing doesn't pan out though I think I'll wait on drivers' ed until I'm in college in Fairbanks, since I'll have no need to learn how yet.  People ask me if I drive yet and I say no, I have no need to, since I'm currently spending most of my time in a place with no roads or cars anyway!  Instead of sitting in traffic on my morning commute, I do a lot of walking and some kayaking, often in inclement weather.  Then I think about how this time next year, provided I'm driving and have a place off-campus, I'll just be going down the freeway like everyone else LOL.

Good luck on the WE light!

And where are you going to work now, if you don't mind me asking? I'm currently working THREE jobs LOL.  One as a janitor for the community center/city hall/library building, one as a school "lunch gentleman", (First day of cooking lunch was today!) and one as an on-call laborer for the City of Port Alexander, AK (Who is also my employer for the janitorial job).  All part-time jobs, with less than 10 hours a week each, but it adds up!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 22, 2015, 04:00:14 PM
There is a grand total of 36 switches i think, 25 being upstairs, three on the landing by the front door, and the rest in the basement. My bedroom and my brother's bedroom both have two switches by the door, one for the light and one for the ceiling fan. And we both have switches for our closet lights on the outside of the closet. My parents' room has the two switches by the door too and the switch for the closet. They also have another switch inside their closet though, which is for the attic light, as the attic access is on the ceiling in their closet (just a plastered piece of drywall nailed to a 2X4 frame that covers the hole; no integral ladder). In their bathroom, they have a switch for the vanity light and then they have a 2-gang box with two Decor duplex switches, all for the exhaust fan/light. One's for the fan itself, another for the light, another from the heating element, another for the 7W C7 nightlight lamp inside the unit. Those are the only non-toggle switches in our house. My bathroom just has a light switch, fan switch, and vanity switch, all toggle. No fancy integral nightlight or heater.

The hallway has one switch by my bedroom door, all by itself. At the other end of the hallway there's  4-gang box with another hallway light switch at the far right, one of three switches for the practically never-used staircase chandelier next to that, a switch that controls nothing, and on the far left the switch for the chandelier over the island in the kitchen. The load-less switch goes to the same junction box as the island chandelier light switch does; a ceiling fan was intended to go there but we put the fan over the dining room table instead as a last-minute decision. So the switch controls nothing lol.

In the kitchen we have one switch by the sink that controls the light over the sink (make sense... lol). We don't have a garbage disposal though, so there is no switch for one. By the slider door in the dining room (technically the kitchen, dining room, and living room are all one room, a studio-type set-up, but you get the idea) there's three switches. Left switch for the deck light (70W PSMH), right switch for the PAR floods for the backyard (used to be motion-sensor but I replaced the motion sensor part with a wire-in "stem" photocell), and the center switch is for the light/fan over the dining room table. That's the only fan in the house without separate switches for the fan and light since like I said, the fan was supposed to go over the island. We rarely use the fan anyway lol.

At the landing by the front door we have three more switches, left for outside lights by the front door, center for outside lights by the garage, and right for the staircase chandelier. At the bottom of the stairs by the utility room, we have another cluster of four switches, far left is one of two switches for the garage lights (the other switch being inside the garage itself), second from the left is for the utility room (switch is on the outside of the utility room, I think since it's considered a closet by code, and there would be no good place for it inside the room anyway.). Third switch is for the "boob" light in the mini-hallway where the staircase, utility room, garage, and closet under the staircase meet. Switch to the right of that is the third switch for the staircase chandelier. About 5 feet to the right, there's a single switch for the other two "boob" lights in the basement. Then further down near where we have the computer, TV, and air hockey table, there's another single switch for the F17T8 wrap light (formerly a fourth "boob" light). And lastly, the laundry room has a switch for the light.

Actually, I did draw up a floor plan of the upstairs and downstairs of my house and posted it on LG in my McCann Lighting album. Check it out! :D

Ick! I hate stainless steel appliances. I don't like the look at all. We used to have a stainless steel sink, which I really hated. We have a deeper black granite sink that's much nicer and doesn't make a loud noise when the water is turned on and hits the sink. Our fridge is white and our sink, dishwasher, wall-mount microwave, and stove/oven are all back (not sure why the fridge is white and the rest are black, but it actually doesn't look out of place as one might think).

The ballasts I speak of are all Sylvania Quicktronics, same ballast used in my parabolic troffer (understandably, since my fixture came from the school lol) so they're great quality! I'll use any discounted electronic ballasts I get at the restore or whatever but whenever I actually buy new ballasts (as opposed to buying a hacked up fixture at the Restore with the sole intention of harvesting the ballast from it) I only buy Sylvania Quicktronic ballasts, as I did for the lights in my grandma's garage. Two have NOS NBF ballasts and one has a used LBF ballast from school, also a Quicktronic. Since I also used Sylvania lamps, the ballasts and lamps would be covered under warranty too! (Sylvania only warrants their fluorescent ballasts if their own lamps are used). The ballasts are old stock though so the warranty has probably expired anyway lol.

I did see the slimline ballasts from those louver-less louvered lights at the ReStore but I've never looked at the wiring of one before. And I only opened up one 4ft section to see the ballast so I only saw the connections at one end of the lamps (didn't pay attention anyway lol, was too busy looking at the ballast itself lol). Thanks! Yeah I'll eventually be taking down the last Western Electric light lol. The first two were kinda botched installations but I was able to get them up with a little improvising. The fixtures are designed to be chain-mounted with a cord coming out of them, so it's kinda hard to hard-mount them and hardwire them. I just drill a 7/8" hole for the romex clamp, which is no big deal (positioning it is though lol) and then drill holes for the screw to mount the light. And the reflector is held in by a screw that goes from the top of the light and down through the fixture and has an acorn nut on the end that secures the reflector to the light The problem is that you can't remove the acorn nut (or install it for that matter) without the screw endlessly spinning, so I ended up having to get long screws and actually screwing the reflector into the drywall! Kind of a sketchy installation, but I only did that to one of them lol.

I currently work at Dave's Marketplace, a locally own grocery chain in Rhode Island. My pay is $9/hour and I average about 9-15 hours a week. It's never the same. My most recent paycheck was $112 & change and the week before that was $70-something dollars. Wow sounds like you're a jack of all trades there!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 22, 2015, 10:33:17 PM
Wow, that's a lot of switches! How about like 25 outlets in one room (Well, a studio-type loft).  I'm sure it was for computers in 1988 but I joked it was for a weed grow-op, being on the fourth floor.  (This was at our house in Atascadero).
Wow, C7 nightlight bulb in a bathroom fan/light? as well as the normal bulb? Great idea but still interesting...and a heater element instead of just a 125w or 250w infared BR40 lamp?

My house has seemingly decently placed switches for the most part too, and as far as I know they all do something.  I did add a 4' Lithonia LPF-ballasted basket wrap in the shop/garage with a switch right by the door though since the nearest other switch (At that time) for an older LPF Lithonia wraparound was pretty far into the room on a post holding up the floor/ceiling above so you had to fumble around in the dark sometimes to find it.  Rather than install a lighted switch, how about another fixture? Granted, since then, I've added another switch for a Sears 4' shoplight between the two which is within reasonable distance of the door but I'm still leaving the basket wrap up. 

Personally I'd want a chandelier over the dining room table but that's just me.  But a ceiling fan in the living/family room or den for sure...and all bedrooms (If I was wiring a house or replacing all the fixtures with what I wanted).  I also like the 70s-80s looking ceiling fans with the "flower petal" shades for the light kits...NOT the newer style fans, which don't even have E26 sockets!
I'd like to find some Sylvania QuickTronic ballasts too...I hear good things about them.  Granted, all I can find around here is Advance Centium 120-277v units (True Value and Spenard Builders' Supply, an Alaska lumber chain.

Sounds like my godmother's job, she works in supermarkets.  What do you do? Bagger boy? Cart pusher?   Do you get any kind of employee discount or anything?

Yeah those F40/RS shoplights can be hard to hardmount (Get it? LOL).  I had to drill for the Sears light I put up last week. 

Jack of all trades? Great way of putting it! A friend put it really well: "Scattered".  I know a lot about a lot of things, and like doing a lot of things, and have a lot of totally unrelated hobbies (Including lighting!). 

So at Christmas (Or sometime between December 18th and January 4th) it looks like I'm going to visit a friend, who has a Deuce and a half...maybe I can get some more in-person experience and education.  That'd be great, so I don't go into my potential Deuce project totally blind.  (Other than EXTENSIVE Internet research).  That's exciting to me.  Plus I'll get to have other new experiences as well.

I'm also not a huge fan of stainless appliances, though I like my stainless kitchen sink, it's a 2-bowl but it's nice and DEEP! (So the dirty dishes can pile up for day on end in this bachelor pad LOL). But yeah, water running in them can be annoying.  In the winter, when the outside temperature dips below freezing and I leave the sink trickling, I stick a homemade cutting board in there I built in the very same shop some of my Sears F40/RS shoplights came from!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 23, 2015, 12:31:30 AM
So guess what? I posted a pic  of a GTE Sylvania F15T8/BLB I have and the story of where I found it on LG and a fellow LG member told me they'd also just been to Sitka, AK! I commented back with directions to the place I bought that lamp and many others. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 23, 2015, 05:11:34 PM
25 Outlets in a room? Overkill, anyone? lol

My kitchen has 6 outlets (well, 6 duplexes, 12 outlets). That's the most outlets in one room here, aside from the finished part of the basement, which has around a dozen, but it's about half of the entire bottom floor so that's expected. Yeah "night light bases" as I call them, seem to be common on newer fans. Our living room has no actual light fixtures, just a 50-200-250W 3-way incandescent table lamp. Again, the kitchen/dining room/living room is a big studio type room with a raised ceiling that is angled like the roof but there is no ceiling lights over the living room portion.

I'm a cashier/bagger (it's a smaller sized store so there is no separate bagger for the registers). I also have "service clerk" on my job title, which is carriage boy, trash taker-outer, table cleaner, shelf stocker, etc. but I've only done cashiering so far.

BTW, I finally got strips for the two vapor light housings I have! I bought two new F40T12 wide strip lights from Lowe's for $20 each. The cheapest I've seen standard strip lights. The ballasts were NPF electronic naturally, but I replaced them with 1997 Magnetek Universal Watt Reducers (.77A) to make them magnetic T12. All I need now are a pair of diffusers, which I'll end up buying new. Pics are on LG.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 23, 2015, 07:49:13 PM
Yep, overkill!  And even much of my current house has those 4-plex outlets everywhere.  I actually got to talk to the person who wired some of my house and they told me they did it (And at other houses in my town they wired) because back then the annoying "Wall-wart" transformers took up a whole outlet by themselves.  

Plus, I know for a fact at one time (BEFORE I lived there) my house had a grow-op going. (Not the whole house though).  But not in the rooms with 4-plex outlets.  

Carriage? That's the RI phrase for a "shopping cart", right?  What brand of bulbs does the store sell and have you bought any yet?

Nice! Electronic? I thought those are LOA-Guts-In-The-F-Can ballasts? If you don't want them, can you set them aside for me? I'd take them either way, LOA guts or electronic. 

.77a is NOT an energy saver, or so I think anyway.  .76a and under is, however.  I have a .77a Advance Kool-Koil, pre PCB ban (And the line current later went to .80a like Universal and GE) that's full power.  Granted, it has other issues, I think a bad (PCB!) capacitor, it trips its thermal cutout and acts overall like a LPF unit in terms of lamp EOL or misinsertion and behavior on modified sine wave inverter electricity or poorly regulated generator power.

The reason for the Night Light bases is apparently EPACT regulations from what I've read. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 23, 2015, 08:34:40 PM
4-plex meaning two duplex outlets mounted in a 2-gang box right? There's a couple instances of that in my house. One is behind the TV in the basement and the other (if there is one) is behind the TV upstairs. Of course, we only use one outlet anyway since everything is plugged into a surge protector. Sure if i don't end up using the ballasts I'll save 'em for you. Yep, we call our shopping carts carriages lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 23, 2015, 09:58:56 PM
Yep, 2 duplex outlets in a 2-gang box. Some (Well, most) of the 25 outlets in a room (And it was a loft, a whole floor of the house) were 4-plexes.  See how that makes it add up fast to that many outlets? I just remember my late mother saying it was like 25 outlets.  I assume she meant individual duplex receptacles, not individual outlets or 2-gang boxes.  But I can't ask her and the house is sold so I can't count, I'm just going from memory.  But it was a lot, I remember that...I bet it WAS about 25!

What's your opinion of surge protectors? I think of them not as that, but as extra outlets, and I have many in my house where there aren't enough outlets.  Like I said, this house would not pass an electrical inspection.  (Or an inspection period, but I'm fine with that; it's mine and that's what's important).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 24, 2015, 03:17:13 PM
Same, I just think of them as extra outlets. I actually refer to them as "power strips" but I know that's technically not the correct term for them.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 24, 2015, 08:57:31 PM
Yeah, I find the "surge protector" phrase to be rather uncommon!

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 25, 2015, 02:53:48 PM
BTW, I replaced the faceplates in my room with metal ones. Not sure if I like it yet. Would look better with brown switches and outlets but I don't feel like buying a bunch of them (I already had the metal faceplates) and plan to revert back to the plastic ones when I move out.

I also scored ten 300W medium base clear Sylvania incandescents! Four NOS and six used, one being dead. It worked when I tested it but today when I cleaned them all I noticed the filament was broken. Must've been bumped lightly and the filament broke. :-\ Anyway, nine is still awesome and I have a new-but-slightly-used one I bought new at Lowe's a few years ago. Those suckers are bright, at over 5000 lumens. I put four in the chandelier over the kitchen island (takes four lamps) and it was arguably as bright as it was outside! (slightly overcast and getting near dusk, but still bright out; the sun would have still been up).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 25, 2015, 10:50:21 PM
Interesting. 

Score, where from? I would almost leave those bulbs in the chandelier, but the fixture probably can't take it.  They'd be awesome on a dimmer!  They're clear, right? I know someone who has a bunch of 200 watt soft white bulbs on dimmers, almost never run at full power though.  They do however have a rather annoying high-pitched buzz/whine on a dimmer, but I know the reason for that, which I'll try to explain: It's from the sine wave being chopped up and causing harmonic "vibrations".  Higher-wattage incandescents, especially those with vertical filaments, are prone to this on modified-sine wave inverter electricity as well, I even had 75 watt lamps that would do it on mine before I converted all my lights to 13w spiral CFLs to save power. 

I've always liked high-wattage clear incandescents, I should just go buy a few for the collection before they get banned or something.  In fact, one case study (of my own observation) is seeing people using 150w or 200w bulbs now that 100w and lower are banned! If it weren't for power usage, I would also go back to incandescents to be honest (Except for where I already have linear fluorescents)...probably high-wattage clear lamps where possible, and the A19 halogens everywhere else.  But for me power use is an issue. 

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 26, 2015, 10:19:04 AM
They came from my shop teacher. I don't know where he got them from, but they weren't related to school in any way. He buys foreclosed homes, renovates them, and rents them out. I guess he could have possibly gotten them from there but seems odd that a household would have a bunch of 300W incandescents lol.

Yeah I believe the fixture is rated for up to 100W lamps or 60W lamps. We originally used 60W lamps in it but then switched to CFLs just a few years after we bought the house since that fixture is used by us a LOT. In fact, so much that the switch is fatiguing lol. It arcs whenever it's turned on. Even with the 300W incandescents it arced, though it was controlling 10A of power lol. If I turned all the other lights on that circuit on I could probably trip the breaker lol. Five of the six used ones had darkening on the outer envelope towards the neck end so that tells me they have high hours and were burned base-up. The sixth of the used one looked new aside from missing packaging. Either the packaging was just lost (they have bulk/case sleeves, not retail boxes) or it was used for a short time before either being replaced or becoming disused. I also got an NOS mercury switch (almond color) and two metal faceplates: a 2-gang toggle switch plate and a duplex outlet plate.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on September 26, 2015, 12:35:38 PM
Never thought about counting how many lightswitches were in the house .lol. for me that would be .. 59!

I use either "power strip" or "surge protector" depending on what type of strip it is.

I do have 1 8-foot slimline (inside, basement bedroom) that I converted to an electronic ballast...so much better having a totally flicker-free  light on winter days when it'd be kinda cool down there.
(the original magnetic always sorta flickered for a few minutes til it warmmed up)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 26, 2015, 12:44:38 PM
How is the brightness? And are 60w or 75w lamps being used?
Nice, a mercury switch! I'd like to find one!
Sounds like you have a neat shop teacher! Cool to see you're rapidly getting more lamps; I've kinda slowed down on collecting...I'm getting to the point of having more lighting stuff than I have space for!
I'm trying to think of a way to rescue the preheat F30T8? fixtures BTW...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on September 26, 2015, 01:23:11 PM
Brightness seems fine (its probably a bit dimmer than a full-power magnetic, but I've never compared side-by-side) right now the fixture has 1 60w & 1 75w lamp.

F30T8 preheaters would be cool if you can save those!

I too have slowed down on collecting, I'm pretty much out of space to store any more.
I joke about needing to build a 2nd shed to store stuff in (won't happen ofcourse, especially there's no good spot in the yard to put one)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 26, 2015, 01:31:18 PM
LOL I just need to "organize" my mess, that'd all.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 27, 2015, 02:42:35 PM
59 switches! Wow! You must either have a big house or just a TON of switches lol. Yeah that's one of the only good things about electronic ballasts, no flicker. Yeah I have to slow down too. I'm running out of space too. Hopefully I can get that street light storage rack thing I have in mind built before the winter comes. I know it'll never go according to plan though. Something will come up that I didn't foresee.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 27, 2015, 03:46:13 PM
So I took the plunge(r socket) and installed that circa 1989 Lithonia 8ft striplight on my bedroom ceiling.  It has a replacement GE "Total Performance Systems" ballast, and 1996 Sylvania F96T12/CW/SS.  I still need to fix the broken socket and to be safe I wrapped some wire and tape around that end so that lamp can't fall out.

I did it with just drywall screws, doing my best to hit joists through drywall.  It's not perfectly straight either but it works.  It's sure a lot brighter in there than a single 22w daylight deluxe circline...I'd never go back LOL.  It's like night and day.  My only complaint though is this ballast is LOUD, rather annoying in a bedroom. 

I'd like to find some daylight lamps and definitely an electronic ballast to reduce the noise.  But like I said, I'm contemplating doing the unthinkable and making all the lights I have in service electronic. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 27, 2015, 06:19:27 PM
Sweet! If the ballast runs cool, you could try some foam tape or some other type of gasket material and stick it between the ballast and housing to muffle the ballast. Some older fluorescent fixtures (a lot of them actually) used asbestos washers to do the same thing. Yeah once you go bright you wonder why you never thought to do so sooner and you'll never want to revert back to the dimmer light lol. The laundry room and utility room at my house both got progressively brighter too.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 28, 2015, 08:38:32 PM
I might try that actually, but it's also a junky late-model energy saver replacement slimline ballast, with a D sound rating, so what should I expect? Of course it's going to be loud...I should take a video of how obnoxiously loud this one is though!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on September 28, 2015, 09:00:44 PM
@Mike:
Yep.. I had no idea there were that many til i counted.
Average sized house, but we also finished the basement, & added lights to some of the upstairs rooms (plus made a few changes on the main level)
I also included switches in the garage & shed

@GEsoftwhite100watts:
Drywall screws are just fine as long as you hit the studs :)

If it were me...I'd just swap that ballast for an electronic.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 29, 2015, 12:35:47 AM
I think that's what I'll do.  Granted, goodbye AM (Or FM!) radio reception if that light is on LOL...which it usually isn't for late-night DXing.

BTW Xmaslightguy...you'll like this...I managed to make up a decent FM antenna out of a bunch of old wire, that pulls in an otherwise-inaudible signal perfectly!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on September 29, 2015, 07:39:07 PM
@GEsoftwhite100watts:
Not all electronic ballasts will kill radio signals, and some are worse than others  (its also less of an issue if you keep the fixture enclosed (I leave the covers off mine to let heat escape, plus one isn't a real fixture & is fully open LOL))

Yep that's a good way to make an antenna, then just move it around as needed :)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 30, 2015, 02:42:57 PM
In my construction shop, we have a really long lamp cord that we attached as an antenna. It runs all the way up the wall to the ceiling and disappears up there somewhere. The building is built into a slope, so our shop is at ground level at the back of the building and buried at the front of the building. Upstairs is at ground level in the front and on the second floor from the back of the building. Being underground, we get NO radio reception without that really long "antenna", which I have no idea where it goes.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 30, 2015, 08:40:40 PM
LOL yeah, standard speaker wire or lamp cord works really well. In that case, the 8 foot metal strip would probably AMPLIFY the interference!  :8)

Speaking of lamp cord, I'm starting restoration on a very 1970s looking 3-way table lamp my dad found and gave me. It apparently was in a knocked-over garbage can (along with some screen cloth) in the dump in a totally abandoned logging town they explored a bit.  It's rusty but should clean up well and I'm excited, I have a thing for 70s light fixtures, unlike most people, so I want to restore it.  I'll post pics.

Socket is in surprisingly good shape, for being outdoors. I might even be able to save it.  I shot it full of Corrosion Block and was able to turn the switch with a pair of needle-nose pliers (plastic knob is gone) but have yet to try powering it up; that will be on my dim-bulb tester at first to make sure there aren't any shorts.  It needs a shade too, but that is the easy part. 

Lamp will probably be a GE 3-way spiral I already have, or maybe I'll stick in a preheat circline adapter, that would look appropriate in a lamp of that era.  I'm thinking it's pretty old, the place it came from has been abandoned for, my dad guesses, since the late 1970s.  But when restored it will have character and a neat story behind it a cheap modern lamp wouldn't have.  I actually have quite a few vintage non-fluorescent portable lamps in my house I've accumulated over the last few years.  I wish I still had a few of my late mother's; we had some nice old ones I really miss now.  Two in particular. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 01, 2015, 08:26:02 PM
Interesting lamp project!

Right now I'm in the process of repairing my personal finance/business management teacher's clock. Once the motor is installed and the clock is repaired, I will end up fixing all the broken clocks in the school. It's over half a dozen that are broken. The school is paying for the replacement parts but not paying me. If I need community service hours (need 20 to graduate; dunno how many I have to date) maybe the principal will sign off some hours on the community service log for me. 8)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 01, 2015, 08:30:02 PM
Good luck with that project!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 02, 2015, 05:48:31 AM
Thanks!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 03, 2015, 09:19:56 PM
I think I'm going to install the other/3rd Sears shoplight in the garage soon.  Probably using a pair of Norelco F40CW lamps I have, since they'll jive with the Advance Kool-Koil ballast in there.  (I know, I'm OCD LOL).  Since Norelco is basically Philips, and Advance got bought out by Philips...and it's era appropriate. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 04, 2015, 07:23:05 AM
Ah cool! No changes to the fluorescent lights I have installed here. The most recent being the Sears F48/HO being installed to replace the F40/RS industrial/shoplight. No changes to the street lights outside either. I'm planning for my brother Scott's 12th birthday party in a couple weeks (the one I always do the Halloween Scare/Walk at in mid-October) but there's a good chance I'll be working during the party so it might not happen this year.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 04, 2015, 09:42:37 PM
Nice! Whatever you do, DONT' screw into drywall! Otherwise, you might have an 8 foot slimline go CRASH in the night...(insert scary music).  (http://www.lighting-gallery.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=112357&fullsize=1)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 05, 2015, 05:45:44 AM
LOL yeah for the F17T8 I just screwed it into the drywall at one end and secured it to the junction box at the other end, but anything heavier than that would get toggle bolts at the very least.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 05, 2015, 09:46:20 AM
Honestly now I don't even trust toggle bolts.  I know a case of a pair of 1X4 surface mount troffers almost killing some building maintenance friends.  Ironically, about two years later, when I went to remove some of the same lights in the same room during a remodel (Those Metalux/Gibson fixtures I have) we couldn't get them off the ceiling hardly! How ironic!

Now those lights are suspended with old ballast leads and Gangion though.  With fence stapes into ceiling joists.  Not sure how secure that is, but it's been fine for almost three years now.  Of course, now that I say that, one or both will go CRASH in the night LOL.  Actually one is RIGHT over my head...now I'm getting scared LOL.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 05, 2015, 08:15:18 PM
I'm betting the toggles were either tightened too much, piercing the paper lining, or the screws that were used to mount the drywall were tightened too much and pierced the paper. The paper is the only thing that holds the board in place. Once the paper rips, the screw doesn't hold squat since the chalky center just isn't strong enough to hold up under its own weight.

My 2X4 troffer is mounted to two hooks by tying two lengths of 10AWG green stranded wire to either end to make a "V", the vertex of the V being the hook and the two ends being attached to the fixture (so an upside-down V). I didn't trust my knots that much, but they've held up fine. Of course the fixture only weighs around 10 or so pounds. Not at all that heavy.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 05, 2015, 09:43:44 PM
Yeah a slimline ballast and fixture hanging from drywall is a different story for sure.  But I had a slimline mounted by driving nails into ceiling joists in an unfinished room, wrapping old 18AWG ballast leads around them, clinching the nails over, and hanging the fixture from those.  In fact, I still have a (for now lampless since I broke my only pair of slimlines) 8 foot strip hanging like that and it's been fine for months now.  And same thing for those Metalux F40/RS troffers, one of which has two ballasts and tree lamps, clinched over nails and old ballast leads.  It's been up there for almost 2 years now. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 06, 2015, 06:22:41 PM
I guess as long as it isn't victim of a direct blow of receive any extra vibration like from an earthquake or something it should be fine. I tend to overdo it with installations if I can within reasonable means (I'd rather just use toggle bolts than drill half a dozen holes looking for a stud, since stud finders aren't reliable).

BTW, I got the first clock working! The motor arrived at school today and I've been storing the clock at school, knowing that the motor would be coming in. Anyway, the clock works (and is silent now! lol) and it should sync properly. The only thing I'll have to worry about is if the hour hand is in the right spot (since I took the hands off, I can't know the correct position until it synchronizes with the other clocks and then the hour hand can just be manually pushed to the correct spot. I set the clock two minutes behind the actual time so that it would synchronize within the hour, but the hour hand might end up being off. The reason is because the Master Clock tells the clock to behave in a certain manner (i.e. makes the gears turn so that the clock reads a specific time) but if the hour hand is two hours ahead of where it should be positioned, the Master Clock will think it's reading the correct time and assume the hands are positioned correctly. The Master Clock controls the gears, which controls the hands, so if the hands are not positioned properly, the clock will synchronize to the wrong time. The minute and second hands will synchronize without issue though.

Hopefully I positioned the hour hand properly when I put the hands back on the clock, but if not, it's an easy fix. Just unlatch four springs to take the crystal (glass cover) off and manually turn the hour hand to the right time with my finger (the only hand of the three where you can do that; the others must be set by falsely triggering the gears or else you'll screw up the gears and strip them or screw up the alignment.) The second and minute hands work together but the hour hand is actually independent as far as the gears are concerned. So changing the second or minute hand will also change the other, but changing the hour hand does not affect either the minute or second hands. They're very complicated devices lol. Very expensive to maintain too! We ordered the new motor from a company called American Time, which is a great reputable company that sells Simplex parts for our Simplex clocks. The motor cost $30! A new clock however, costs nearly $200! I haven't checked the whole school yet, but so far there are around half a dozen that need repair and one that is totally missing (the PA box has an open cavity where the clock is supposed to be) so I'll have to check with the principal if he wants a replacement unit ordered for it or if it was intentionally removed for some reason.

The Clock system was serviced once since it was installed in 1998 and the defective clocks were simply replaced with American Time units, which I assume are cheaper than the OEM Simplex clocks and are designed to the same specs (major manufacturers' clocks are not interchangeable though; but American Time makes mock-ups of all the major brands so we can order Simplex-compatible clocks for the system). I'm not sure when this servicing was done, but all but one of the newer American Time clocks I've seen still work. All the failed ones are the original Simplex clocks, which is not surprising given the system is over 15 years old and any form of maintenance on them is unheard of, so dust builds up inside the clocks and makes the gears bind and the motors fry and then you get the one or two teachers who think they are mechanically-inclined who think they can fix the clock but f*ck it up (fortunately it was just one in the gymnasium locker room that was tampered with so far; the whole gymnasium building has a wiring issue though since all the clocks work but display an incorrect time, so the clocks are not receiving communication from the Master for some reason). I will tell the principal that I cannot fix the gymnasium building clocks since the issue goes beyond the clock itself and will recommend that a work order be placed to have a technician troubleshoot the wiring from the main building to the gymnasium.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on October 06, 2015, 08:58:36 PM
Only fixture I trusted using toggle bolts on is a LOA 2xF40 shoplight... those things are so paper-thin & lightweight LOL

Anything else I put screws directly into studs (gotta love my studfinder) even if it meant drilling extra holes in the fixture (which it usually did)

-----
I coulda sworn I uploaded a couple images to my gallery here last night...but they are nowhere to be seen. Guess they went to the great bit-bucket LOL
(actually kinda odd 'Last Uploads' shows nothing newer than 10-02-2015.. nobody's uploading? the server is hungry and eating new files ???  )
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 06, 2015, 11:11:45 PM
Here I've had trouble uploading as of late, so I just upload on LG since we're all on there anyway.

I saved another lamp from death today, a pretty modern, chrome floor lamp that has a lean to it (Must have had a fall; it needed some help from the lamp Life Alert (Me).  (Get the joke?).  It took some tightening but was an easy fix compared to my other one I plan to start on soon.  It's a 3 way lamp but my 3 way CFL won't quite fit (An older GE) and I have no incandescent 3 ways so it has a Satco T2 spiral 5000K for now, which with the modern white shade and chrome body looks really appropriate actually.   I'll upload a pic.  I'm finally getting around to furnishing my house...lamps instead of clip lights, pictures/paintings on the walls, houseplants, etc. 

Interesting, are clocks another major hobby of yours Mike?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 07, 2015, 01:52:42 PM
I haven't bothered uploading here in a while since hardly anyone comes on the site lol.

Synchronized clocks are a interest of mine. I don't know a whole lot about how they work but know the basics.

EDIT/UPDATE:
On Tuesday the 13th I'm going to help my grandpa clear out a shed for a customer in Massachusetts. The guy has a bunch of electrical stuff I guess so my grandpa said I can sort through it if I come and help him, so it's a no-brainer! I assume maybe the shed was used by an electrician at some point (maybe the current owner or maybe not) so the stuff might all be NOS/NIB. I think my grandpa said there's some lights too. I hope they're old! It's a week out though, so something to think about! In the mean time, I'll be taking a tally of the broken clocks in the school and fixing them.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 07, 2015, 08:42:06 PM
Oh good luck, hope you score some goodies!

I've scored good stuff during cleanouts too.  You'd love the tool shop where I work...all sorts of (albeit common and modern) lamps for stuff in use at the City of Port Alexander, AK buildings.  (I work for them).  Fun place to work actually!  We have a few NOS Norelco F40CW lamps stockpiled though, for ONE T12 fixture, a 1970s Sears shoplight like the ones I have, also fitted with the same Norelco lamps, in the tool room.  Next to cheap, modern T8 shoplights LOL.  I've said if it's ever removed I want it but I think it will stay in use forever and I kinda hope it does...I like seeing vintage fixtures/lamps in use. If I ever became the head maintenance guy (Which is unlikely) I might swap it for something modern when I left that job though LOL. 

I do all sorts of stuff you'd probably kinda enjoy other than janitorial work...basic everything...like yesterday I dug up a leaking fire hydrant (Oh, what fun!).  My supervisor just so happens to be the guy I might be ending up with that '71 Deuce and a half from...I need to figure out where we're at with that...haven't discussed it further...but all sorts of other things while doing monotonous jobs LOL.  We have a lot in common, which is good...I've also had a boss for a previous job this July/August who at times could be a real @$$hole...but that's another story.



Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 08, 2015, 01:36:20 PM
Me too! Yeah clean-outs always unveil stuff!

My school somehow ended up with a pile of removed troffers and really old looking strips and wraps behind the building. The troffers all have F40/RS-sized Advance electronic F32T8 ballasts. I think ditto for the wraps/strips. My friend Phil and one of his friends are going to grab them all for scrap so I told him if he saves me all the ballasts (and keeps the leads near full-length) I'll give him $1 per ballast. There's literally near 50 fixtures so he sees it as an opportunity to to make like $50 off me for saving all the ballasts and him and his friend will split what they make off the scrap of the fixtures. Of course I'd love some of the older fixtures but they're incomplete with the parts scattered in piles, so I'd rather just have all the ballasts. Of course, he says he's going to get all the lights but who knows if he really will...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 08, 2015, 08:12:19 PM
Good luck! In fact, many of my old GE F40s (Mainlighters mostly, and a few others and some Norelcos) came from the trash shed at work, before I worked there.  My now-boss actually turned me on to them (pardon the pun) like 3-4 years ago now.  In fact I have at least two lamps in use from there: a GE Mainlighter F40WW and a GE EcoLux F32T8/SPX35.  (That was NOS!). 

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 09, 2015, 08:08:38 PM
Been doing some lighting shopping online today for a few items...some CFL (Or, better yet, LED!) yellow/bug lights, (I found some 13w CFLs and an A15 LED) and some 6500K 3 way CFLs (Yes, such a thing does exist!).  Preferably something that FITS under a lamp harp, since my early-model, primitive GE is about 1/4" too tall! Plus that one is 2700K and well-used anyway and I'm going to need at least two.  Or maybe a 3-way LED...in which case I'll settle for 2700K just to not have the disposal.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 11, 2015, 06:12:30 PM
Put up the third Sears shoplight today, I got sick of it sitting on my workbench in a pile of fixtures.  It's now in the garage/shop within a few feet of the other one I put up a few weeks ago.  This one currently has a 1979 Advance Kool-Koil full power, .80 amp no-PCB ballast (An old Advance that actually works!) and currently has a pair of Norelco F40CW lamps.  I figured they were appropriate given the old Advance ballast...lamps and ballast are both kinda related to Philips.  In keeping with that theme I put some June 1999 Philips F40T12/Home Light lamps in the other one with the .65a Universal 40w-only ballast from 1984.  They're both on the same switch but I may change that in the future.  The difference between the old school pre-EPACT 1980s halophosphate cool white Norelco lamps and the 90s EPACT Philips lamps (triphosphor 4100K replacement for the F40CW) is actually quite noticeable.  They look a lot like CWX...they don't match as well as SP41 does.  Nevertheless, I'm happy.  It was a pain in the @$$ to install that one with the Advance ballast and Norelco lamps though, every time I almost had the reflector installed the lampholder bracket on one side would fall out.  I did this five or six times and it was getting really frustrating!

And I had to open back up the other one to wire this one to power.  Another classic case of "I hope NOBODY ever has to take this apart ever again...oh, it might just be ME!" (Those wide, nice, vintage 1970s reflectors are a pain to install and remove). I feel like my wiring is getting neater too.

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 11, 2015, 07:51:11 PM
OK, you know how sometimes fluorescents sputter and do other weird things at the ends when pulled out of storage and lit for the first time in months/years? Well, both these Norelco lamps are doing neat and strange things...one looks blackened at one end (I know it's mercury though since it did this when I first got it like 2-3 years ago now) and the other is "swirling" right at the end on the etch end...(excess emitter).  Neat to watch.  Both haven't been lit since early 2013, and were powered up for the first time in 2-1/2 years today.  Even after several starts it's still doing it!  But with lots of mercury and electrode emitter, that's a sign they SHOULD last a long time! Especially in residential use, where they will probably see less than 10 hours a week, ever.  The later cousins to these (Philips F40CWs) lasted well over 25 years at my mom's house. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 12, 2015, 06:30:27 PM
Yeah I have a giant GE 2700K CFL that's 18-23-32W IIRC. Won't fit in any normal table lamp! I wonder how LED bug lights work. The CFL ones suck since CFLs flat-out emit UV light, which attracts bugs like, well, flies lol. The newer incandescent bug lights suck too. The only good ones were the originals that had a really deep coating but didn't emit much usable light lol.

LOL yeah installing hardmounted fixtures alone is not fun, especially when they're poorly built and fall apart on you while being installed! The good thing about chaining the fixtures is that if it's more than lamps or starters being changed, the fixture can just be unchained and taken down (provided it's wired to a plug and not hardwired). Relamping is easy with bi-pin lamps with suspended fixtures but with SLs and HOs it can be tricky since you have to pull the fixture one way and push the lamp the opposite way while trying to get the pin into the stationary socket lol.

Cool about the lamps! I've heard there's really nothing special about Norelco lamps, not really being any better than the later Philips stuff aside from the fact that there's more mercury in the Norelco stuff. Still far superior to Altos IMO lol.

BTW, I'm getting a package from Joe Maurath Jr, containing photocopies of quite a few vintage lighting ads from the 1960s and onward. He told me a lot of them have not been seen by other enthusiasts, so I will be scanning the photocopies onto my computer and uploading them. Also in the box are a few small lighting goodies that will be uploaded. Expecting that box toward the end of the week. And tomorrow I'm helping my grandpa clear out that shed in Massachusetts with the electrical stuff.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 12, 2015, 08:19:29 PM
Mine is 12/23/29w.  I'd be curious too but I think I'm going to go with the tried-and-true CFLs for now because of optical control similar to an incandescent.  (One is going in a light that NEEDS to be a glarebomb that's on all night, two are going in a "motion" type light (Where 6400K LED PARs are horrid for attracting bugs, ANYTHING will be better) and another is going in another fixture outside in a woodshed (well, 4 posts and a roof) I've never posted.  Here again it needs all-around optics, not half-lit like many LEDs are.  Especially if they're A-15 shape!  That'd be almost lost in a "motion" light I think but I should try with an incandescent first to get a feel for it. In this case though it's not so much bugs as it is the color...my dad wants the softer, yellow light outside, not 6400/6500K like it is now, and I am NOT using 2700K triphosphor! I hate how that attracts bugs, I swear just as bad as 6500K plug I hate how it looks outdoors! I did describe to my dad though what LPS is (He's never heard of it or seen it in use; well he has but didn't know what it was or care to pay attention, understandably) and told him THAT'S what I really want outside.  One 18 or 35 watt LPS NEMA would do the trick. 

I agree.  As another lighting enthusiast friend on YouTube (He's not on LG or GOL though) put it: What good is a white bug light?". Both of us have always had this weird affinity for incandescent bug bulbs.  Before becoming such a 5000K/6500K daylight nut, I used to use bug lights (albeit newer ones) indoors as general lighting, just for something "different" from soft white incandescents. 

Poorly built? I wouldn't describe these Sears shoplights like that but you're right, when compared to a 1950s tulamp preheater!  Still way better than the current shoplight fixtures though, I'd take these any day! 

I'd still have to agree to disagree about Norelco fluorescents, I know of many in use that seem great quality-wise.  I've seen them around for many years, and some I myself installed NOS in 2012/2013 still have absolutely no wear marks, even in daily commercial use.  (some of them in rotten, mice-chewed, water-damaged cases almost got smashed and destroyed before that though, along with my Mainlighter lamps, by my now-boss, but I ended up with them.  He did however, back then, save 6 of them and put 2 in use in the tool shop at work in a vintage Sears shoplight just like mine, and it has 4 identical spare Norelco lamps near it safely stuffed in between the ceiling joists.  I bet they'll never be needed LOL.  It seems really funny though, having those and that fixture next to cheapo modern electronic instant-start T8 shoplights with GE EcoLux SPX35s.  (Which have blackening already, granted, these get switched on and off all the time, for short cycles!).  I've told him the old Sears light and its 2 extra lamp changes will far outlast those and that it should stay around, but if it ever comes down and the lamps are just going to get smashed/trashed, I'll be a good home for them.  So I'd say Norelco/older Philips lamps are WAY better than Altos.  But the pair of HomeLight Philips F40s I have almost act short on mercury when cold, even though they're silverenders.  (Correction: They're June 1996 I think!).  So Norelco and 80s-90s Philips are my personal favorite fluorescents of all time. 

Good luck!  I hope you find some NOS cases of vintage F40s or something!

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 13, 2015, 07:09:13 PM
Well, I cleaned out a large shed about the size of a small garage with my grandpa and got a motherload of lighting stuff! A lot of it I had to leave behind since it was just stuff I didn't want (mostly all recessed can stuff) or was destroyed from water damage and mice. Everything is NOS from the 90s. I have two Cooper OVXs, one with a dead mouse in it (EEEEEEKKKK!), cases upon cases of medium base HPS lamps, some medium base MH lamps and some mogul base HPS, quite a few Philips 25W buglights, loads of outlets, wire-on plugs, and some switches, two emergency lights, two 1500W halogen flood lights, and a few cases of 25 bakelite medium base socket extenders. I'm thinking of selling the majority of the stuff since I'll never need it. Almost everything was a brand of Cooper, except for the lamps, which were Philips, Norelco, and some off-brand I can't recall ATM. A LOT of stuff for sure! I have to take apart the OVXs and scrub them clean (and get rid of that dead mouse!!!) before i can test them. They're both 400W HPS 120/480V (no other taps though for whatever reason) and no PC sockets unfortunately.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 13, 2015, 09:03:17 PM
Awesome! Did you save all the LAMPS and BALLASTS though?  Sounds like you scored.  If you ever get rid of the 25w bug light lamps I may be interested.  Any F40s?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 14, 2015, 05:42:14 AM
No ballasts, other than a couple PL ballasts I came across, which yes, I saved. And yes, I saved all the lamps. I've looked only at a few HID bulbs and it seems they've not fared well in the damp conditions in the shed. A lot have split bases and one HPS lamp's getter is chalky white instead of silver/black so I think it lost vacuum.

No F40T12s either. The only fluorescents were two F25T12/CW Sylvania lamps and some PL fluorescent lamps (PL-9s IIRC, made by Philips)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 14, 2015, 09:26:03 AM
Wow, they must have been an electrical contractor or something (Whoever owned the shed originally if it's not who has it now).  Take pics and test everything you have ballasts for! Were the PL ballasts screw-in E26 adapters?

Like I said, in the future if you get rid of some of the stuff I MIGHT be interested, I'd have to see pics.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 14, 2015, 09:22:49 PM
I will post pics when I get the chance. I'm going to clean everything before I take an inventory of everything and take pics. Plus I'm fixing the clocks on top of that and school and work to add to the misery lol. Plus I have a box from Joe to sort through. I'm backed up for weeks probably lol.

So far, I've seen that I have several boxes of ten GE 15A duplex outlets (ivory color), two boxes of brown 15A GE duplexes, two boxes of 20A GE duplexes, some single pole and three pole GE toggle switches (brown, white, and ivory), some twist-lock higher voltage outlets, boxes and boxes of irregular plugs. Twist lock, 240V straight blade, and then some 15A female plugs,but unfortunately no 15A males, which I go through like water with my fluorescent lights.

The PL ballasts are PL ballasts, not adapters. All four are 7-9W. I suppose they'd drive 8W T5s just fine. I got the PL sockets with them too. I have two cases of Philips clear G30 25W incandescent lamps, lots of medium base 100 and 150W HPS SUPREME brand lamps (that's the off-brand I couldn't think of; the lamps actually appear Philips-made). Four Norelco 150W mogul HPS lamps (definitely keeping those!) two GE HPS mogul lamps; 100 and 150W, some 50W mogul bade SUPREME lamps, some 250W HPS SUPREME lamps, a box of PL18s, a box of PL22s, a box of 25W tubular incandescents, two Surelites/Cooper emergency lights (needs batteries), two 1500W Cooper halogen flood lights, over 100 med-med bakelite socket extenders, and a steel electrical box (just a blank box; no KOs, nothing inside, no idea what it's for). Everything is NOS from the 90s BTW. Nothing has been used that I can see. I have other stuff I haven't actually surfed through yet.

I also got four 2x4 lensed troffers from my friend who went dumpster diving for me at the middle school. The troffers are 3x F32T8 with dimmable advance ballasts from the early days of full sized ballasts. I'm gonna ask him for six more. They're going up in my grandpa's apartment's basement. I Swapped one ballast out with a new IS Advance T8 ballast since these dimmable ballasts are REALLY cool. The lamps are in series and if one lamp is removed, the others strobe like preheat! Normally they start similar to classic F40/RS fixtures. So these electronic ballasts combine RS and PH action! They're gentle on the lamps too. I never recall seeing a dead bulb while at the middle school in those fixtures.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 14, 2015, 09:41:01 PM
Nice score! If you get rid of any single-pole switches I may be interested in a few; I need some.

Yeah, I'm always backed up and busy too between school, work, etc.  "I'll be available a month from next Tuesday", that sort of thing. 

Yeah, I always cut the cords off of dead appliances to re-use on stuff like new fixtures. 

G30 25w? Interesting! Not quite bathroom-vanity-light stuff, huh? I like the huge G40 globes...I want to find a couple old tiffany stained-glass globe bulb fixtures, one for over the dining table and one for over the kitchen bar counter (Or maybe put a ceiling fan there, with a light kit.  There's light in there from the (currently dead-ballast) F32T8 Lithonia commercial-grade (NOT a basket) wraparounds, but I want a light on that switch anyway.  I'd have to photograph the setup for it to make sense and I think I will)  Right now there's a single ceramic JB pullchain light in a kinda stupid spot in there with a 3-way adapter plugged into the side convenience outlet, running two clip/brooder lights sans clips as inprovised pendants and a rusty, ugly preheat F15T8 undercabinet light, which my dad hates.  So I plan to put a ceiling fan near (But not in the exact same spot as) the JB light eventually, then move the range elsewhere, and in that spot where it is put a wood cookstove, with a 1970s looking fixture out of a house teardown over it instead of a brooder light,  and over the dining table get rid of one of the "breast" lights, put a chandelier or globe tiffany light there, and do SOMETHING for the other "breast" light.

Supreme? That sounds like Sylvania to me, (SLI ExtraLife 130v incandescents) but I've also heard those are made by Philips...so now I'm still stumped. 

Norelco? That's pre-1984, so some of it is older. 

Nice, are these replacing F40/RS troffers or supplementing them?

Nice, those ballasts sound neat! Either they group relamped every few years or were REALLY good about spot relamping. 

Oh and my boss for two of my jobs (The one who turned me on to the Mainlighters and Norelcos in the trash shed a few years ago) is coming over to my house this Friday to meet up on our way to do some work at the water tower for the town here.  (We both work for the City of Port Alexander, AK).  He's always wanted to see just how many fluorescent lights are in use at my house after hearing stories and knowing how I am.  He saw the place once before we moved in but it was a dump then, now it's lived in and a lot different in terms of how it looks.  Also the same person with the 1971 deuce and a half I may end up with, so we might advance further with that possibility on the mile-long hike up there. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 15, 2015, 08:10:39 PM
I think they're G30... The box doesn't say. It's two full cases of single-packs (apparently designed for retail sale) and they're clear. They could be used for a bathroom vanity, but would be dim. They otherwise look like bathroom vanity fixtures. I think those G40 bulbs look awesome in stained glass fixtures too. I've seen some that use a regular bulb with a white globe secured over the bulb to give the impression of a G40 bulb. I like those as well, since standard lamps are more common, plus an LED or CFL/PL could be used as a substitute and still look good.

I'm pretty sure they're Philips but not positive. Definitely look like Philips lamps, but the arc tube supports on the mogul lamps are GE style. The company is based in the USA too.

Yep, the Norelcos are obviously older than the rest of the stuff. The GEs could be too since they lack sleeves (still NOS though). The 2X4 troffers are replacing pull chain incandescents. His basement has the F40/RS troffers but the apartment he owns next door to his house still has the original pull-chains, and for some reason they were all put towards one side of the basement, so one side is poorly lit and the other side isn't lit at all lol. The plan is to get 10-12 of them installed down there. If there are extras, I'll see if another family member wants them installed.

I scrubbed the OVXs down yesterday and tested them today. Needless to say they work fine. Ballasts have a very noticeable buzz but nothing too obnoxious. Wow 400W HPS is BRRRRIGHT! I tried the 400W CMH retrofit lamp in one too and it's also very bright (and a nice color too!)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 15, 2015, 09:12:50 PM
Awesome, good to hear you got them going!  Yeah I've seen the ones with the big globe you add too, in which I agree a PL could be used.  That said, though, I want 100 CRI perfect incandescent light over the dining table.  (But the bar counter can have crappy 2700K triphosphor warm white, or better yet 6500K daylight!  In either case I could use a preheat circline adapter and a 22w Philips daylight deluxe circline lamp I have...that would be neat. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 15, 2015, 09:33:29 PM
Yeah I'm going to keep the better of the two OVXs and give the other one away. Both are in great shape now (I mean come on, they're NOS from 1995!) but one has some missing specks of paint since the layer of black scum on the door (stored upside down) ate the paint away on one of them.

We have CFLs over our dining room table (granted they're not dim and flickery PLs) and the color is actually fine. Great actually. I'm sure incandescents would be better and more crisp but it beats eating under 34W Lite-White tubes shimmering in the cold lol. I personally would want a warm white source in a stained glass fixture. Daylight wouldn't look right (I think that with just about any fixture designed for incandescents; it just doesn't look right with a non-warm white source. A circline would be really cool in one of those large fixtures!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 16, 2015, 12:28:28 PM
Yeah, it's horrid eating in cafeterias lit by clear MV or 34w warm white and cool white lamps shimmering on ballasts with bad capacitors. 

I think daylight looks neat in incandescent fixtures, but that's just me LOL.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 16, 2015, 09:28:48 PM
So Mike, I went on the hour-long, mile-long (each way!) hike up to the water tower.  We went to inspect some (worsening) foundation issues, and took pictures of rotten pilings (8X8 pressure treated that had pretty much exploded, along with some of the glue-lams which are also bad in several places) and did some other maintenance-type stuff.  Being a construction-type guy you'd have gotten a kick out of this.  It's an interesting setup, not your typical above-the-trees water tower you'd think of, rather a giant cylindrical tank built on a deck on the side of what's debated to be a mountain or just a hill.  The town is fed by a 4" insulated pipe going down the hill, though the swap, etc. to the chlorinator.  I just can't imagine packing all that stuff up there, although I  know for a fact that when this was all installed in 1990 they had helicopter help too.  But I see all sorts of neat things in my maintenance on-call job.  (Like you said, I'm jack of all trades). Like for example, yesterday I spent 2 hours (along with my supervisor) fixing a pinhole leak in the water main under city hall that feeds that building...it was 1" ABS pipe that had a tiny pinhole...an "OK, just shut the water off, cut it with a hacksaw, stick a piece of copper in and use 4 hose clamps" fix.  No, wrong.  We must have turned that sucker on and off five or six times at the very least trying to stop our (worse after we jury-rigged it) fix from leaking.  

And we have an update on the Deuce!  He's still got it.  I asked him about it again today and he said it was so funny I should mention it since 2 weeks ago a guy called him about it, talked him down to 400 bucks, then never called back.  Nobody wants it...except me.  So my boss is going to take pictures when he's there in a few weeks...so now I'll know what I'm getting into! :)

And I also saw the neatest thing at someone's house today.  They showed me their (It's legal in Alaska, don't worry) hydroponic grow setup and this was really neat!  They have a 4' X 4' plywood box, with rapid start ballasts on top (Advance Mark III Energy savers I think) powering twelve F40T12 lamps inside.  They're in layers, so the plants are surrounded by light as they grow up through the lamps (Three per layer, 4 layers).  He has homemade sockets/tombstones too, out of sheet plastic with copper wire as connections to the lamps which just sit right in slots (No twisting, the lamps lift right out!).  This was so creative IMO!  I might copy this setup for vegetables someday.  

All the lamps I saw in there are modern Sylvania "Daylight Full Spectrum" (Design 50) and I didn't see it lit but apparently he has some Grow-Lux in there too.  He also has a case and then some of F40 lamps for this thing...mainly Sylvania /950 but I saw others too.  I joked, "I thought I was the only one with cases of F40s in my house!".  

This attic room was also lit by F96T12 8 foot slimline strips, suspended from chains, with Philips non-Alto F96T12/C50.  I like their color, I think I will buy a case!   He thought they were HO but I explained they're standard-output.  (He's fairly knowledgeable about fluorescents; the type if you say "F40" or "HO" they know the lamp you're talking about).  But this was real neat, I think I might build a hydroponic grow box like that someday, it's real effective compared to a regular F40/RS shoplight!

And at an event in the city hall building today there was a bad F32T8 ballast cycling on and off...people's reactions sitting under it were nothing short of hilarious to someone like me who knows why it's happening.  I joked I was remotely doing it to mess with people! :lol:
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 18, 2015, 08:09:43 PM
Sounds like it was an interesting trip! And good luck with the Deuce! $400 sounds like a great deal if it's in running condition. From what I hear, all you ever have to do to those things is put fuel in them and they keep going and going (well the oil has to be changed too and an occasional bath & waxing couldn't hurt lol)

Hydroponic could also be for non-drug plants too lol. My friend actually asked me if I could hook him with some lights to start his weed op lol. He doesn't want to spend $600+ on a real grow light lol. I told him to look on Craigslist or eBay for some highbay or low bay lights. If he gets two, he can ballast one for HPS and one for MH and swap them out when needed. Or could use conversion bulbs. I told him I don't want any part in the business though lol. Don't wanna get arrested if he gets caught. It's a lot more common than one might think though!

Hmm never seen an electronic ballast cycle. Was it the EOL protection? Usually once the ballast cuts out an EOL lamp it doesn't come back on until power is shut off and reapplied. The slimlines at the summer camp I go to used to cycle on hot days in the mess hall (cafeteria with open sides; just a roof with walls that can fold down, but they only use them to secure the building during the off-season. I suppose if they used the place in the winter they'd keep the walls closed but but the place isn't insulated and has no heat so it would be really cold and no running water since the pipes would freeze in the winter).


OK, well I ended up with 11 2X4 lensed three lamp F32T8 troffers to give my grandparents. I was able to splice the wires on all that they were cut from (some still had their full-length wires). I kept two of the ballasts for the collection and replaced one of them with a Advance IS ballast. The other fixture has an empty housing and they'll buy a ballast with the lamps. I didn't have another IS ballast to stick in it and wanted two of the cool dimmable series program start Advance ballasts. They run all three lamps in series! A pain when a lamp burns out though I bet lol. I don't remember a single lamp ever being out in one of them though, but all the rest of the fixtures at the school has slews of dead lamps (they were IS). I guess the fixtures were REALLY good with lamps!

Anyway, I'm going to put the fixtures up for my grandparents. They're going to buy the lamps, the one ballast, the romex cable, cable clamps, and switch boxes. I have switches to use from when I cleared out that shed with my other grandpa and got all that lighting and electrical stuff.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 18, 2015, 08:58:58 PM
It was! Living here off and on since 1999, I'd never been up there!

Thanks! It's apparently in running, more or less air-up (air assist brakes) and drive away condition from what I'm told.  They're not totally maintenance free by ANY stretch of the imagination, though.  A few people I worked with over the summer were constantly teasing me about wrenching on it in the Walmart parking lot, etc.  50% of people think it's the most ridiculous thing they've ever heard and laugh at me, whereas the other 50% think it's the neatest thing they've ever heard.  (This doesn't include other MV (Military Vehicle) enthusiasts...there is a forum for that I'm on.  So, just like LG and GOL for lighting enthusiasts, it turns out I'm far from the only weird one.  In fact I'd say this one is much more widespread than the lighting hobby! In fact there's multiple people my age wanting a Deuce 2-1/2 ton or even a 5-ton as a first vehicle, as a daily driver..."Do I need a CDL?", etc.  The most common (80s-90s) version of the 5 ton at least is an automatic, whereas the most common Deuce is a manual, with, get this, not the typical shift pattern either! That's going to be a bit of a pain in the neck in rush-hour, stop-and-go, light-to-light city traffic, which I will be driving in a lot of. (And lots of open highway too, where it won't be so bad).  Except for going down the freeway in the slow lane at 45MPH!  That's another thing, the newer 5-tons actually get a somewhat decent 12MPG and 60MPH, so you can actually drive on the freeway comfortably.

I laugh at myself though whenever I think that while in college my commute may switch from walking about a mile each way, and paddling a kayak, often in ugly weather, to going down the freeway at 45MPH in a 2.5 ton 6X6.  On a side note, one of my teachers and I have this stupid running joke about commuting to school at 70MPH on the interstate in Ford Excursions, "thumping bass" (explicit rap music, etc).


Your comment about waxing cracked me up though.  I'll hopefully see how much rust this one has in a few weeks (In pictures, not in person). 

I know one thing I'll have to add though is a block heater, for those -40F Fairbanks, AK winters.  And I'll probably install a radio as well...it'll be nice for possibly an hour-plus-long commute (Trying to live outside of the metro area proper, being a ruralite) and planning to do about 15,000 miles a year, including commuting, driving between interior Alaska and Southeast Alaska and central California, and whatever else. 

If you want, I'll link to the story I posted elsewhere, if you want to see it in context.

LOL yeah, this one was mainly intended for "those" plants, but it would work well for anything else too, and I won't be growing "those" anytime soon.  Although, my current house was at one time a grow-op, and came with a bunch of 400w MH higbay heads and lamps,  and some 1000w MH and HPS lamps, and a 1000w HPS ballast (The 1000w stuff I've never tried firing up). 


I just can't picture you smoking that stuff to be honest. 

Then you didn't see how both the wraparounds in my kitchen failed...same thing. 

Score! Wow, 3 lamps in series?  What color temp will you guys use? Or is this a "Whatever is cheapest at Home Depot" kind of deal? 


Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 19, 2015, 08:26:22 PM
LOL yeah I'm sure MV enthusiasts outnumber lighting enthusiasts. And out of the lighting enthusiasts on LG and GoL, few of us are actually die-hard enthusiasts. Most are just in the electrical field (be it engineering, lighting design, etc.) and just ended up in the hobby. For me it's the opposite: my hobby is leading me to a career!

Post the pictures here or on LG! I'd love to see it. 8) Yeah I saw one before and they take a while to get up to speed but still manage to leave the person behind them in the dust (in a literal sense; those things put out a lot of exhaust smoke!) lol.

LOL yeah me neither. I don't have and problems with my friends that do though. Yep, all three lamps are in series. When one lamp is removed, one is totally out and the other half lights and strobes like an EOL preheat and even have a click click click sound! Pretty cool ballasts and they seem to have had a few low failure rate. Yep, this will be a lowest-price installation, which calls for cool white lamps (afterall, with 33 lamps, even cool white will be pricey!). And unfortunately it also means they're gonna be Altos. :(  I drew up an estimate and looks like it'll cost around $150 or more for everything. Lamps, cable, switch boxes, faceplates, romex clamps, romex staples. I have the switches and screws. The former were from the shed clean-out. They're spec-grade 120/277V GE switches. They're not snap switches but have large toggles like snap or mercury switches and seem better built than the $h!tty Leviton switches my house has.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 19, 2015, 08:40:14 PM
I'm one of the people who started out just liking lights.  I don't think it will lead to a career though, but I could be wrong. 

"They take a while to get up to speed..." Of course.  It's a 2.5 ton 6X6, not a Geo Metro! And yes, they're known to BELCH smoke.  But the whole multifuel engine concept has long since been killed off by the EPA...how ironic considering you can run them on waste motor oil or cooking oil! It's just as ecologically sound (or lack thereof) as the battery in a smart car if you ask me! That being said I have nothing against cars like that...Toyota "Prius", Nissan "Leaf", etc.  But I can hardly wait to see how hard the California smog testers laugh! (California has some VERY strict environmental laws). 

Good luck, take pics of the install!



Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 22, 2015, 08:41:13 PM
So Mike, you'll like this: I'm currently working (as time allows between school and working 3 jobs) on building a 10X12 shed with my dad.  I'm getting a little bit more practical carpentry experience as a result :)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 23, 2015, 05:44:18 AM
Ah cool! How's it being built? (materials). I'm actually contemplating building a second shed to call my own instead of the storage rack since I need more room! It could easily cost up to $1000 in materials to build a good sized shed and even more if I bought a pre-fab unit (and it would be poorer quality too).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 23, 2015, 01:30:51 PM
I'd just go ahead and build whatever the largest you can without needing a building permit is.  IDK about your area but in Atascadero/Templeton, CA it at least used to be 10X12 for a shed without a permit. 

Make it on skids so you can move it if need be.  That's what we're doing, mainly because we are knowingly building over our property line and even though we have the OK from the current neighbor it needs to be non-permanent in case it ever became an issue later, it could be dragged out of there with a tractor.  I also say skids since you're moving out in a few years, right? That way it could be moved to your new place.  Worst case scenario make it modular, like a doublewide mobile home so it can be moved more easily.  Especially since in your case it'll require over-the-road moving on a flatbed or something.  OR, alternatively, screw literally everything together and number everything so you can disassemble it and reassemble it at your new place. 

I'd make the floor on skids like I said, we used 2X12s on a non-mortared rock wall to get things level.  Across that, do 2X6s for floor joists.  Plywood or OSB (might be much cheaper with the latter) for a floor, then 2X4 walls (You might even get away with 24" OC instead of 16" OC if you're trying to go as cheap as possible) with T-111 for siding.  Cheap, goes up fast in sheets, etc.  For a roof just do 2X4 joists with 1X4 furring strips every 24" (or less if in a high wind area like I am) and corrugated metal, secured with TEK screws.  See? Everything removable, in sheets, for moving and reasembly.  Just my 2 cents...

And of course, you have GOT to electrify that thing.  If you want to avoid digging trenches and possibly tearing up the sprinkler system (if you have one) or septic leech field (if you have one) just put a subpanel in the shed (or one junction box, probably doesn't even need that!) and cut off the female end of a #12 extension cord and wire that in, so you can just roll out the cord when needed and unplug it and put it away when not.  Should get around code inspection that way if it's not permanently hardwired in. (Everything else inside that is).  Or run the cord overhead (Again, just extension cord) and plug it into a GFCI outlet but you can still say it's "temporary". 

Just my 2 cents...

Mine is being built with 2X6 floor joists, 16" OC.  I'll let you know how the rest goes since mine is kind of a make it up as we go along deal.  It will, however, have a gambrel roof. And it's 10X12.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 23, 2015, 04:28:49 PM
What the heck are skids? lol Eh who needs permits? :P When we extended our deck we never pulled a permit lol. I wouldn't for a shed either, especially since it's not going to be hooked up to electricity or water (if I built it, I would make it so that it could be taken apart and taken to my new home and I would add electricity then, but not while it's here since it would complicate removal and I'd be spending enough as it is. Perhaps I could just have it transported on a flatbed truck but that sounds expensive just thinking about it lol. IDK how I'd go about it honestly...

Yeah I'd use OSB for the floor substrate. About the only thing I'd ever use that crap for lol. If I were to build a shed, I'd probably make it around the dimensions yours is going to be. Roof peaking at around 2ft. The roof slope must be at least 4/12 or 5/12 (four or five inches of rise per foot run) to comply with code here because of snowload. Of course, the steeper the roof is, the more easily snow will run off and not stress the roof as much.

Hmm never gave that metal sheet roofing stuff any thought but I like it! How is it price-wise compared to traditional roofing shingles? Definitely makes it more modular and easy to disassemble, which I like a lot. Thanks for telling me about it! I'm with you on using T-111 for siding. Looks better than OSB or plywood and still relatively inexpensive compared to other more "decorative" sidings (and it would match the existing shed too!). Like I said, I'd like to wire it up, but yeah underground trench thing wouldn't go over well with my parents lol. I wouldn't want cables inside either since it complicates removal, however I'd likely use scrap cords/cables and just use screw-in hooks to support them. That way, all the wiring can be taken out. Of course when the shed got to my permanent home, I'd hardwire it and connect it to the house. I'd have shelves inside for storing lights on one side and a work bench on the other side, with shelves over it and a work bench light (likely a two-lamp F40T12 fixture) The work bench would be made from grade A plywood and given a sanding with fine grit paper so it's nice and smooth. It would be built into the shed and have outlets mounted near it. I'd likely install another street light on it too (maybe not while it's at my house, but later on). If I were to place the new shed next to the old one, I'd end up removing the street light set-up on the existing shed and just transferring it to the new shed and modify it when I moved to the permanent house by wiring it into the shed. I'd just plug the holes in the existing shed using the screws currently holding the set-up in place.

Our existing shed has a gambrel roof. Classic shed roof IMO. The shed I build would likely have a standard gable roof though to simplify construction.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 23, 2015, 05:44:52 PM
BTW, I finally tested my theory about 3-way switches (for controlling a light fixture from multiple points) and it works! My theory was that I could connect two fixtures to the switch and just use one switch. The switch would power one light when flipped in one position and light the second fixture when flipped in the other direction.

An application where I'd use this is a bathroom, where there is a VACANT/OCCUPIED sign above the door. With the switch down, the light/fan inside the bathroom would be off and the VACANT section of the sign would light up. When flipped up, the switch would turn on the light/fan in the bathroom, turn off the VACANT section of the sign, and turn on the OCCUPIED section. The VACANT/OCCUPIED sign would probably end up being custom-made. Or possibly a traffic/pedestrian signal with red and green sections. If I had an outbuilding with a bathroom I'd do this, and then have a switch on the bottom of the sign itself (or someplace out of direct view where no one will touch it) to shut off the sign when not in use but still allow the bathroom light to be turned on. Said switch would be a normal ON/OFF switch.

Interesting set-up idea, right? It would also work for night-lighting, where a small F4T5 strip is controlled in the down position and the up position makes the room lights come on.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 23, 2015, 09:06:29 PM
Skids? Basically building it on top of large timbers so it can be slid out of there.  Who needs permits? You'd have a good laugh if you saw a lot of the work done around here; with no enforceable codes I see some really odd stuff! Including in my own house from previous owners. (The place was built at literally ten different times and I'm the fifth owner since it was homesteaded and the original shack went up in the mid-late 70s; the rest has been built AROUND that.  Almost every room has a different floor level (One step up, two steps down, etc) and the rooflines are also bizarre, and none of the ceiling heights are consistent at all.)  I've seen even crazier than mine though.  I actually kind of like how it's a far cry from a suburban cookie-cutter! 

Wiring is the EASY part if you ask me, even for disassembling.  I know when I do mine it'll be leftover Romex I've slowly been using up for additions which I salvaged during a house demolition 2-1/2 years ago.  Since I plan to stick a generator in there I plan to have UF direct burial 10/3 buried going to the house, and probably a SJTW extension cord wire overhead feed from the other shed next to this one (It's like 4 feet between them) for lights, outlets, etc. in the shed.  Probably a 8ft slimline inside, a 4' cheapo LPF shoplight up in the "loft" (It'll be kinda 2-story) and maybe even my yardblaster on the front if I can get a new refractor. 

Expensive, huh? Now, stuff like this is why I'm looking into a 2.5 or 5 ton surplus MV. I've been meaning to make a list of all the potential "advantages" LOL. Granted, right now you'll have quite a time transporting materials since all you have is a standard Sedan-type car.  I guess your dad's pickup might work for some of it though...does it have a lumber rack? Those help a LOT.  Better than having sheets of plywood going airborne at 65MPH (Or anything for that matter.  A fellow lighting enthusiast (though not on LG/GOL) once related a story to me about having a case of (thankfully new Alto) F96 slimlines hitting the freeway at 80MPH.  Those just turn to dust though, unlike plywood). 

OSB also makes good poor-mans Sheetrock.  Don't ask me how I know this.  At least it's better than particleboard, which I despise even more than OSB.  I also hate T-111, but it's cheap, goes up fast, and doubles as sheeting that looks finished, though with most anything I'd side over it later with something else more attractive and less rot-prone.  Granted, my house has lots of it, both inside and out!  (It makes good cheap indoor paneling too, as well as a substitute for plywood.  It's amazing what you can do with T-111!)

I'd think X/12 doesn't matter if you use asphalt shingles, since it will never slide off anyway! That's why I personally like metal: It slides off! (Sometimes violently).  I have no idea on price but I bet it's cheaper.  Home Depot, Lowes, etc. should have it. 

Grade A? Way better than CDX! (Crap Deluxe is what I joke it stands for).  Personally my favorite plywood for stuff like that is 1-1/8" subfloor plywood.  2X12s work well too for workbenches. 

Personally I actually hate how gambrel roofs look.  But they're efficient in terms of space! 

I once saw a case at someone's house where a 3 way switch was used to alternate between the outside porch light and lights in the living room where you walked into the house.  Personally I thought it was ingenious, but also the stupidest way to wire it. 

Geez, going for the airplane lavatory or Porta-Potty vibe huh? Those signs crack me up, in fact I'm laughing as I type.   

It could work for a nighlight though I suppose. 


Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on October 23, 2015, 09:56:42 PM
I too would love to build a 2nd shed, and could certainly make use of it, but don't have the yardspace for it.
But just for fun/out of curiosity (using 8x16 as a size) I did some pricing out of OSB/Siding-board/2x4's/etc last weekend
Just the 'wood' for the basic structure alone would be well over $600 (as a very rough estimate)

No idea what T-111 is LOL

@Mike:
Interesting setup with the 3-way switches, but yeah I knew they could be used in such a way.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 24, 2015, 09:34:19 AM
Ah so skids aren't needed then. I've never heard of them so I didn't think they were important unless there was another name for them. Wiring is easy but taking it down is not. You got all those romex stapled and often when you go to remove those, the romex jacket its ripped up and the wire gets destroyed. Trust me, I have my reasons for not wanting to do it. ;)

I'm not going to go buy lumber with my car. ??? My dad has a pick-up for a reason. :P LOL well fortunately I'm not stupid enough to drive the freeway with something like a case of bulbs sticking off the end of the truck. I'm sorry but if that guy thought they were going to make it he must've been high or something. When you buy stuff like that, stay off the freeway and if you can't, ride in the right hand lane (or breakdown lane if there is one with your hazards on and drive slow until you can get off and take the back roads). Just my two cents. Seems foolish to drive 80MPH with a case of lamps in the back and expect them to be fine. I'm laughing hysterically at the stupidity of that. ;D Pick-up truck loading 101: STRAP STUFF DOWN! lol

The roof pitch matters for ALL roofs. Because of the pitch is higher, the timbers become stronger and can hold more weight. I looked and it appears that a 2X4 sheet is 14 bucks. Around the price of plywood, which would need to be applied to a shingled roof anyway so yeah in the end it works out to be cheaper. Plus it has a virtually endless life. You can't walk on the roof though. Not that I plan to be walking around on top of my shed, but when I'm installing the stuff I'd have to be up there.

LOL why the heck was it wired like that? Pretty stupid IMO lol. Who's to say you might not want them both on or off? LOL are you making fun or my bathroom sign? :P ;D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 24, 2015, 09:53:58 PM
Apparently it was a little tiny pickup with a 4-1/2 foot bed. 

As far as not securing things, my best story about that is as follows (I'm pretty sure you'll have a good laugh at my expense). We did this job picking manmade trash up off beaches that had washed up (Japanese tsunami debris, etc).  I've actually done beach cleaning on many occasions but that's a different story.  Anyhow, this June while unloading garbage we had this huge steel cylindrical-but-conical buoy.  We just stuck it on the flatbed we were borrowing and drove off.  (A coworker and I).  We didn't strap it down or anything (stupid) and so it was rolling around the whole drive to the scrapyard (I'd say a good 6 or 7 miles).  We did have some 2X4s in the slots around the edges but face it, it would have gone through those like they weren't even there.  Also the flatbed had this little hand-operated hoist crane, which we didn't think to secure either (Idiots) and so it would slam against the metal grille behind the cab every time we went down a hill, braked suddenly, stopped at a red light, etc.  The person I was with wasn't familiar with the area yet (Sitka, AK) and so I was verbally giving directions as we went.  (Take a left here, etc).  I remember asking, "OK, which is worse, a hill or a roundabout?".  Now, toward the end the road (2-lane 45MPH state highway in the "suburbs", mostly residential area on the way out of town (As much as driving out of town can be in a town on an island with no other populated areas on its road system) gets very windy-twisty-turny-up-and-down-hilly, so we were literally driving 10-15MPH in a 45 speed limit zone, in surprisingly dense traffic (It's ridiculous how many cars are on the road in that spread-out town of 9,000 people; the only time it's devoid of traffic noise anywhere in Sitka is at about 2AM.  Don't ask how I know this).  Finally, we get to the scrapyard and just pushed the buoy right off (The guy offered to lift it off with the excavator but we said we've got it).

The inside joke between the person I did this with and I is that this was both a comedy (Driving with unsecured loads on a flatbed like total idiots) and a tragedy.  There were all sorts of bizarre things in that junkyard, including a brand-new (Or at least new paint job and fire brick) Blaze King woodstove  (Are those popular there? They're all over here). I asked about it and would have offered like 300 bucks for it since I have the exact same thing in my house (Parts, etc.) Unfortunately they couldn't give anything in there out to the general public again.  (Ridiculous). 

Also outside of this place (The scrapyard is in a giant concrete tank left over from when the place was a pulp mill in the 70s-early 90s) was a very rough-looking Deuce and a half.  I should've inquired but I didn't.  Not like I would have had a place to work on it anyway. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 25, 2015, 10:41:45 AM
Ah yeah if I get a pick-up it's going to have a "real" bed that you can actually fit stuff in. No backseat; just driver and front passenger seats. Pick-up trucks are for hauling stuff, not for every-day family transportation IMO.

Oh wow lol. That's a wild story. At least no one got hurt or anything. And at least it didn't fall out lol. I laugh every time I hear or see  the word "roundabout" since it's so foreign to me. Everyone here called them "rotaries" and the signs refer to them as "traffic circles", i.e. "TRAFFIC CIRCLE AHEAD" on a rectangle sign underneath a diamond sign with three arrows making a circle. Like this:

(http://www.trafficsign.us/650/warn/w2-6.gif)

Some older signs just say ROTARY, but more often than not, there's no signs about a rotary, just yield signs where traffic merges in, one-way signs directing traffic flow, and double-arrow signs where roads branch off the rotary. The name must be a regional thing. Us New Englanders are known for making up names for things. TV remote:  "clicker", shopping cart: "carriage", drinking fountain, "bubbler", submarine sandwich: "grinder" ("grindah" in Rhode Islandese), etc.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 25, 2015, 09:55:18 PM
Oh really? I'm laughing at "rotary".  I've heard "traffic circle" before though too. 

I know a lot of those little made-up phrases, some of the following are my own, or coined by people I know or stuff I've seen on the Internet: You might laugh...

HPSyndrome
LEDisease
CFLunatic
Frankenfish (farmed salmon)
Army truck disease
Green iron disease (another phrase for the above)
Power scow syndrome (a type of boat; owning one)
Hippie glass (Plastic sheeting/mylar for windows in unfinished homes and cabins
Poor man's drywall (OSB)
Pot-smoking politics
"The hens are clucking" (Gossip flying in a small town of 45 people)
And so many more...

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on October 25, 2015, 09:57:59 PM
traffic-circle/roundabout/rotary/rotunda (whatever people may call them) ... those are what I call "idiot circles" LOL

I do tend to refer to a remote as 'clicker' too..
(mouse for computer is also a 'clicker')
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 25, 2015, 11:03:31 PM
LOL at "Idiot circles". 

I've heard "clicker" too.  The "mouse" for a computer always cracks me up though.

Or how about "Idiot light"?

Hey Mike, you'll like this, being someone who is kind of a plumbing enthusiast: I took apart the entire dam spillway for the town water supply at work today, and had to fix the inlet pipe (It had washed out).  It was actually kind of fun, despite getting soaking wet (going over boots, etc).   
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 26, 2015, 02:07:52 PM
Yeah I've heard those first three. Personally they annoy me... Never heard of any of the others except for the "hens are clucking". In fact,  Family Guy  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nL7gol2KPc) made a reference to it using the show The View LOL.

Cool project! And cool that they let you fix the inlet pipe for the town's water supply. :o 8)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on October 26, 2015, 06:34:12 PM
Quote from: GEsoftwhite100watts
Or how about "Idiot light"?
That's one of those motion-sensor lights people put on their driveways LOL

----
Cool project at work on fixing the inlet pipe/spillway
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 26, 2015, 07:34:01 PM
LOL yeah I dislike those stupid motion sensor PAR lights, but don't mind regular PAR lights.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 26, 2015, 09:50:35 PM
I also think they're pretty stupid too.  They always get triggered by everything EXCPET what should: A car going by, wildlife wandering around, gust of wind moves tree branches, etc.  And they turn off and leave you in the dark jumping up and down waving your arms trying to make it turn back on!

Plus if those PAR38 CFLs are used they're uselessly dim unless a LOT of motion happens since they never get a chance to warm up!


LOL at "idiot light" too.

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 27, 2015, 07:56:05 PM
Doing more online lighting shopping.  I hate shopping for niche products, namely daylight F34T12 lamps.  (I had one of my last (already used) cool white GE Watt-misers quit this morning).  I want daylight but the prices are insane...like eLightbulbs quoted me 19+ bucks for a single lamp, much less a case!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 27, 2015, 08:26:06 PM
In other good news:

-I started applying for dual-credit university classes today! Exciting stuff! Expensive but worth it, and I need 2 more credits on my high school transcript.

-I got a 4th (albeit temporary) job.  Yes, I'm doing 4!

-Will be getting pics of the Deuce soon.  Yes, we're getting serious about this.   ;D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 27, 2015, 08:33:30 PM
Ah good stuff! I plan to go to a technical college to be an electrician (18-months). It would cost over $22 thousand! :o :o :o
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 27, 2015, 10:41:20 PM
Might be worth it though, electricians make a lot of money!

Would this be something in your immediate area?

If it makes you feel better I'll be paying 15K-and-change a year for University of Alaska Fairbanks. (4 years, plus maybe more if I do graduate stuff)  Including classes, room and board, and meal plan.  Think that's expensive? I'm lucky being an Alaska resident, if I wasn't it'd be way more expensive.  Another reason why I chose to stay in Alaska for my education and THEN move back to California (I'd considered moving back last winter permanently and just coming back to Sitka/Port Alexander, AK to visit).  But I chose Fairbanks since it's still geographically as far away as realistic from here (New experiences, scenery, pace, etc) but still with in-state tuition.  ;D

I'd really like to live off campus though.  Despite that, I'll probably spend the first year in the dorms while I'm getting oriented with the school and surrounding city and its suburbs.  I don't want to put out a security deposit on a house, apartment, dry cabin (More about those in a minute) and decide I don't like it there and I'm moving to Anchorage, Juneau, Sitka, or out of state.   Probably not Anchorage, since I find it's too big and I just don't like its feel, and maybe Juneau if that was the case since in terms of population and urban development it's comparable to Fairbanks, but I honestly never want to live in Sitka again (Been there, done that, and don't want to do it ever again).  But I'm confident I'll like the Fairbanks area.

Rent is an interesting thing in that town.  Would you believe it if I said such a thing exists as $400 or less a month for rent? The catch: No indoor plumbing.  No toilet...outhouse in subzero temps is going to suck but oh well.  A "dry cabin".  Why so common?  In places where it's been known to get to -70F (Brr!) it just isn't practical to run water mains and sewer/septic! Granted, the city proper has water and indoor plumbing and flushing toilets for the most part but once in the suburbs forget city water.  Some places have wells but arsenic is a thing there...a problem.  You might have seen myself and member Icefoglights (A Fairbanks local) talking about it on LG.  (I was asking how to test for that). 

The area I want to live in is easily a 45min+ commute to the university though.  So I MUST be driving if I want to do that; it's outside of Fairbanks proper so forget public transit.  Why live out that far? First of all, Fairbanks is 7th worst city in the US for air pollution.  Secondly, I'm a ruralite after 7 years now of living in the middle of what most would consider to be the middle of nowhere.  Finally, I just want the adventure!  Plus undeveloped land goes for about $1000/acre there, and I only really need an acre or two TOPS, so I could just drop a grand on something possibly...and build something of my own. 

That's part of the reason I'm looking into the Deuce as a project vehicle and possible daily driver...hauling ability! Firewood, building materials, water (throw a 500gal tank in the back) and plenty of other stuff...plus if I can run alternative fuel during the warmer months it should cut the gas/diesel bill (It'll run on either) down to nil. 

If you're curious, I can post some links to streetviews of the area...


Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 28, 2015, 04:24:47 PM
$22600/year I should say (dug up the paperwork). A "year" is nine months, so it would cost double $22600 just for tuition, plus textbooks and what not. Yep, it's less than a half hour away (like virtually everything in RI lol). You'd still end up paying more for a four year course though since mine would only be two years (18 months). And yeah, I would be living at home. Why pay room and board when I can live at home for free? lol

No indoor plumbing? Crazy! I see why though. Are the outhouses basically a port-a-john thing or is it a good size like a shed? $1000/acre for dirt? Wow. I've never looked at prices for undeveloped property but I figured it would be cheaper than that, being that the land is just natural and no money was put into it (unless it was cleared and the stumps were all dug up and everything and the land was "ready-to-build-on"). Same, I wouldn't want more than 2 acres of land, but I could definitely make due with just one acre. An acre-and-a-half would be my ideal size property. I'd want woods toward the back end of my property and preferably at least one side of me. If I had one neighbor next to me I'd just have really tall bushes (like a bush wall) to keep my street lights from trespassing onto their property. I don't care about neighbors in front of me. I don't care about having a really long driveway or anything. A decent length driveway, partially wooded over with a couple big pine trees or whatever.

Sure, street-views are always interesting!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 28, 2015, 08:49:29 PM
Yeah, a 30min commute isn't bad.  Yeah, I'm sure most everything in RI is close by LOL. 

Depends...they can vary, but of course all you need is the size of a Porta-Potty. 

$1000/acre for undeveloped is GREAT IMO...

I don't care about driveway length or proximity to a road either, though it'll probably be something a mile or two down the network of 1-lane unpaved roads there LOL.  I doubt they get plowed very quickly in winter...another reason for the Deuce!  ;D

http://www.instantstreetview.com/@64.878525,-146.895804,-132.58h,-11.93p,1z  This main highway is what I'd like to be driving every day; living somewhere out this road.  And you see what I mean about ALL the side streets being unpaved. I will tell you most of the cars up there are pretty dusty LOL, even once you get in the city (People commuting in and out)


Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 01, 2015, 04:45:15 PM
Yeah, in RI, if it's not close-by, it's not in Rhode Island! LOL

Well, a portajohn is a little small. If it was my actual regular bathroom I'd want something larger; at least the size of a handicap stall in a public restroom.

Oh wow. The absolute middle of nowhere! lol

BTW,  One of the lamps in this fixture quit after less than 5 months!  (http://www.lighting-gallery.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-109370)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 01, 2015, 09:56:21 PM
Small? Today at a party at someone's house there was a downstairs half bath so small you could barely walk between the front of the sink/toilet and the wall in front of them...it was literally like 24" wide at most! 

Funny thing is their house is a bed-and-breakfast/fishing lodge too...talk about non-ADA accessable LOL.  (Granted, nothing around here is, with the lifestyle here).


I was thinking of your comment about four 300 watt clear incans in a chandelier...you should see my recent "upgrade" in our kitchen...three NEWish (not old and lumen depreciated) 23w 6500K CFLs make it look like literally mid-day in a tiny, no-windows, original-part-of-the-house-that-started-out-as-a-tiny-homestead-cabin-but-built-around-on-every-side kitchen.  It's almost too bright, my dad doesn't like it at all.  I'll see if it grows on him though, he used to despise regular 2700K CFLs about 6 years ago when they got really cheap and popular and were showing up everywhere and we started switching some lights in our previous house at the time from 40w and 60w incandescents to those (He and I both thought they wouldn't be as bright as claimed, but they were!)  But 6500K? Totally different story!  It's funny, I'm getting rid of all our 2700K CFLs (Gave away all my spares yesterday actually!) and now our neighbor's house has the classic warm yellow glow in the windows, and now most of our windows light up blue LOL...I like it since it sets my house apart from the majority LOL, most people won't use those for general lighting, especially in larger wattages. 

There's still a few 2700K lamps and a few incandescents in use, but as those die they'll get the daylight treatment if it's up to me...I aspire to have the whole place eventually lit by 5000K-6500K sources.  The one redeeming quality of CFLs IMO is the 6500K units...LEDs just don't quite give that feel (But the warm white units are way better than some CFLs!)

I wouldn't call it the absolute middle of nowhere, it's still kinda in the middle of a basic area of almost 100,000 people! Just really spread out...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 02, 2015, 03:57:54 PM
I'd say that's illegal. :P My grandma's/aunt's downstairs bathroom (just toilet and sink) is about three or four feet for either dimension. The person who built that bathroom you mentioned must have been a "skinny mini" lol. I don't want an obnoxiously huge bathroom but I want a bathroom that I can breathe in. That's just ridiculous. I won't use the bathroom on the first floor of my grandma's/aunt's house unless I just have to pee. If I sit down to drop a deuce my knees hit the wall in front of me and I can't even put my legs together (the radius of my upper legs alone is longer than the room's size and I'm only 5ft 4.5in, imagine someone who's tall!). Even to pee my back is pressed against the wall and you really have to aim low in order to hit the target if you know what I mean lol.

Eh, how about some 65W CFLs in that fixture? :P My church has 9-lamp chandeliers in the auditorium (where we have mass; they're very lax and don't have really religious names for things like sanctuary hall or whatever lol) that had either 40, 60, 75, or 100W incandescents (most likely 60W) but the church went all LED now (replaced the incandescents, the CFLs, and some of the T8 tubes with LEDs). Some of the linear fluorescents are still T8 I think and the PL recessed cans are still preheat PL. There is one single lamp LPF F20/TS strip still T12 too. Never been in the church's basement so IDK what's down there. No fixtures were replaced except for the exterior lights, which were replaced with LEDs. When they went T8 I think they did replace some fixtures though since I remember more wrap lights (but there's more troffers now). We went to that church for awhile back in the mid-2000s and then we stopped going until earlier this year since I needed a religious recommendation for Eagle Scout and we've just kept going even though I already have the letter. I'm not particularly the religious type but I don't bring it up normally (I consider this topic separate from the site) and I don't mind religious people. No vendetta or anything lol. I do get irritated when people try to force their beliefs on me though. I say "You can believe whatever you want, I won't treat you differently. Just shut the f*ck up about it around me and I'll do the same and we're cool" lol. (Obviously since I brought up the topic, feel free to fire back if I offend you. I don't mean to deliberately step on any toes, but I think we can all speak our minds here.) There's no reason for religion to make such large rifts between groups f people. I feel like people take it too seriously. It's one thing if you truly believe in something but it's another thing to go around and try to force others to "join" you in your beliefs. And unfortunately that's usually associated with religion. In church all I listen to is how "We as Christians need to force our superior religion down the throats of all non-Christians and if they don't comply we will tell them they'll burn in hell forever". I'm paraphrasing of course, but that's what I get out of it. This religion that "calls all to love god" hates anyone who is not Christian. Well can't a non-Christian still love god? IDK religion just never made sense to me. I see it as something that was made up to keep people inline and keep their moral compasses in the right direction. I don't dislike anyone who's Christian (my whole family is) but the whole idea of religion as a whole bothers me. I agree with most of the major principals but when it's all put together it just doesn't work. Like Communism. It sounds great on paper but when you try and implement it, it doesn't work at all like it was intended. Instead of creating peace and harmony, religion rips people apart with wars and everything. :( What they didn't understand is that not everyone in the world believes the same beliefs in their hearts. Whatever. I'm gonna stop now before I get going and can't hold my tongue lol.

BTW, I changed another tube in one f the 2X4 parabolic troffers at school today. I actually saw it strobing and looking really black on the end and then 20 minutes later it was out.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on November 02, 2015, 09:27:35 PM
Quote from: Mike
LOL yeah I dislike those stupid motion sensor PAR lights, but don't mind regular PAR lights.
Main problem is people have them set up wrong the sensor is pointed up/out too far so...just like GEsoftwhite100watts said they always get triggered by everything except what should .lol.
I kinda like PAR floods when the fixture is simply on a switch (have a couple myself)


Quote from: GEsoftwhite100watts
The catch: No indoor plumbing.  No toilet...outhouse in subzero temps is going to suck but oh well.  A "dry cabin".  Why so common?  In places where it's been known to get to -70F (Brr!) it just isn't practical to run water mains and sewer/septic!
Fucking shit thats cold  (sorry for the language, but its way more than just 'cold' .lol. )
Sounds like something from the dark ages :o I'm actually shocked that such a thing even exists these days. :o :o I could never live in a place like that...
...but it'd make a great 'sleeping cabin' for spring/summer/fall (basically something to sleep in instead of camping & sleeping in a tent....actually I sometime plan to do some online research as to what it'd cost to build a simplified version one of  those "tiny houses" - but no kitchen or bathroom...In a way you could say "a shed with a finished interior" - and as far as 'legal stuff' is concerned "its just a nice shed" since there's no building codes for such)


Quote from: GEsoftwhite100watts
  Plus undeveloped land goes for about $1000/acre there, and I only really need an acre or two TOPS, so I could just drop a grand on something possibly...and build something of my own. 
Wow thats cheap, damn you wouldn't even need a loan! If you could get undeveloped land  for  $1000/acre here (near the city ofcourse) I'd totally go get a minimum of 10 acres!  Ofcourse anywhere near the city I doubt you could even get it for that price multiplied by 100!  Getting farther away You'd ofcourse pay less...but I doubt anywhere in the state would be as low as $1000/acre.


Quote from: GEsoftwhite100watts
  my recent "upgrade" in our kitchen...three NEWish (not old and lumen depreciated) 23w 6500K CFLs   
<...>
The one redeeming quality of CFLs IMO is the 6500K units...LEDs just don't quite give that feel.
I like 6500k fluorescents, such a nice color 8) ... but for me the dining room would always be lit with incandescents, and the kitchen 3000k/3500k-at-most linear fluorescent.
Allot of cool-white/daylight-ish LEDs give such a "dull" light LOL just wouldn't make good general lighting.


Quote from: Mike
I'm not particularly the religious type but I don't bring it up normally (I consider this topic separate from the site) and I don't mind religious people. No vendetta or anything lol. I do get irritated when people try to force their beliefs on me though. I say "You can believe whatever you want, I won't treat you differently. Just shut the f*ck up about it around me and I'll do the same and we're cool" lol. (Obviously since I brought up the topic, feel free to fire back if I offend you. I don't mean to deliberately step on any toes, but I think we can all speak our minds here.)
I'm sorta like you, not really religious and in general its a topic I avoid joining in discussions on. I too don't really care someone's beliefs are as long as they don't try to force those beliefs on others.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 03, 2015, 11:04:37 AM
"Dropping a Deuce"? Never heard that one before! Is this a regional term/joke, or are you just poking fun at me Mike? LOL
Yeah, he would throw a fit (He already has been daily about the 23w'ers in there now).  I almost want to fix the fluorescents in there and get some of those 8000K Sylvania lamps!

Yeah, and I've never even seen single digits in person!  I hate +20F!  I'm sure my perception of cold will change LOL.

I feel like I could live with it, but it'd definitely be an atypical experience in Western society LOL.  

Yeah even 2 acres is a lot of space IMO...perfect for me though.  If I ever bought a place like that (I already own the place I'm currently in but the lot isn't all that huge) it'd be perfect for a large garden, chickens, umpteen surplus army trucks, you get the idea LOL.

If I was anything, I'd be Lutheran.  I don't currently attend church, mainly since I don't have access to one in person here in a town of 45 people but I don't miss it either, I'd have to find a pastor and congregation I connect with.  I know some who attend it over conference call but to me that just destroys the experience LOL.  

And I also hate when people try to ram their beliefs down your throat.  Or when people act rudely toward people who are religious.   Like once for example someone commented to me that all Christmas was was "Some $h!tty little boy being born in a manger" and at other times made fun of taking the lord's name in vain (The latter instance, I did (respectfully and assertively, mind you) comment I didn't appreciate their poking fun at my religious preference.  

And whenever I take surveys, fill out personal information for a scholarship application, etc.  I always select "Don't know/prefer not to answer" when it asks for my religious preference.  

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 03, 2015, 08:58:22 PM
 It's another way of saying "taking a crap" lol.  (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=drop+a+deuce) Just like "taking the Browns to the Superbowl" and "Taking the Cosbys to the swimming pool" lol. Not a joke or a regional thing (that I'm aware of). Just generic slang term for pooping lol. Deuce refers to "Number 2" and not the army truck, BTW.

It's funny you say that, being that you're in Alaska, I just can't picture it being warmer there in the winter. :o I totally agree with you about that guy being wrong to talk about Christmas like that. I understand the religious meaning behind Christmas, but in today's society it's just a marketing gimmick to sell stuff. The manufacturers have turned Christmas (and every major holiday for that matter) into an excuse to go spend spend spend, except Thanksgiving I guess, which is why all the stores go right from having aisles and aisles of candy to playing Christmas music lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on November 03, 2015, 09:33:34 PM
@GEsoftwhite100watts:
I like those 8000K Sylvania's (stores here don't sell them, but I had someome on LG get send me a couple F32T8's a few years back)  :)
I'd love to find a F40 version, but don't think it exists...

+20F really isn't that bad .lol. (coldest I've ever felt was just a bit more than subtracting 40 off of that)

Lutheran would be the closest for me too because thats the church my father went too (and made us kids go to Sunday-School at)
Wow...for someone to say that Christmas is so far beyond being just rude. I probably woulda been standing there with a look of shock on my face. If they said that to the wrong person they'd end up with a fist in their face :o

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 03, 2015, 09:55:38 PM
I knew that's what it meant but I was wondering if it was a more regional thing.  But it makes sense.   "Dropping the kids off at the pool", etc.

The guy actually knew me really well, in fact he was my boss this summer for the job I was working at the time.  Probably one of the worst times of my life, but not necessarily just because of him or anything.  It was said in context, not just randomly, but it still shocked me. I'd relate more stories, but not in public forum.  If you really want to know more, PM me Mike.  (I "know" you well enough I'd be comfortable relating more personal stories, including why I say the below:)

Personally I think Thanksgiving and Halloween are also really stupid.  And the commercialism is REALLY over-the-top.  Granted, I've had really bad experiences on both Halloween and Thanksgiving (Halloween especially!) so I realize I might be biased.

Christmas is also REALLY distorted nowadays IMO, but I like the "feel" and "spirit" of it nevertheless.   

Even Thanksgiving is go buy, buy, buy IMO! I'm glad I kinda miss out on the commercialism, living out in a very rural area.  Granted, I still decorate for Christmas.  But maybe not this year, I'll be out in the commercialism in the "real world" instead LOL.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on November 03, 2015, 10:24:07 PM
Quote from: GEsoftwhite100watts
Even Thanksgiving is go buy, buy, buy IMO!
Yep, and very much so! Infact Buy BIG!! 
- Black Friday - (which is now really Black Thursday, considering the big deals/sales are on that Thursday evening)
I can't say much since I'm one of those crazy people out shopping in that massive clusterfuck LOL
Yeah mass crowds and traffic, but I like deals, and its kinda fun too :)

I'll be decorating this year (infact the lights started going up a few weeks ago (but will remain off til thanksgiving)) Gotta sometime in here test the old 'lights computer & make sure it still works too...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 03, 2015, 11:41:31 PM
I personally would never go shopping on Black Friday LOL.

I'm an after-holiday clearance type...like after New Years you can stock up on Christmas lights for next year, etc.

Xmaslightguy, you'll like this:  We're going through a really conductive atmospheric period (no aurora) and the nighttime/predawn skywave AM reception has been excellent! I've even logged a couple new Washington stations.  Even some of the normally-not-audible stations elsewhere in Southeast Alaska were audible!  I'd like to try to record some stuff, any suggestions?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on November 04, 2015, 12:04:37 AM
@GEsoftwhite100watts:
I love Black-Friday, but you deff have to be ok with crowds and such for that
You should see some of the insane lines that form outside stores here. one year I went to Best Buy, and heard that line ended up approaching a block long! And that was at midnight. (I was at a point where it wrapped around from the front to the back of the store...and I know it went way beyond that...) I went in, grabbed what I wanted & when I left I noticed the line was still flowing into the store LOL

I always hit up the after-Christmas sales too :) ... in particular the 90%-off sales in January (there's a reason I own hundreds of xmas lights :) )

Cool. I didn't know about that.
If your stereo has a 'tape-out', just connect that to your computer's 'line-in' (with a 2xRCA to 1/8"-stereo adapter cable) .. this assuming you have a desktop PC, not a laptop as they usually don't have a line-in jack.

I've got stereo/computer connected, so any source that's playing can be recorded :) Works great.
(in my case its to the stereo's "tape-monitor" in/out jacks, so I can both play & record ... and also do stuff like use the computer as a reverb processor LOL)
If it wasn't a work-night maybe I'd stay up kinda late & see if I could pickup any stations farther in Wyoming than those near the Colorado border that I can sometimes get
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 04, 2015, 06:27:22 PM
@ xmas: The coldest actual temperature I've experienced here was -5 degrees F. Coldest windchill was -45 F.

I'm not familiar with the Lutheran religion so I can't really say. Currently I just consider myself Agnostic. Open to any opinion but accepting none lol.

@ Andy: yeah sure, email me at streetlight98@verizon.net. I'm more apt to reply to an email lol.

Yeah the world of consumerism couldn't figure out a way to turn Thanksgiving into a spending spree so they created Black Friday as an excuse to go waste money. You can get some good deals but most of the time it's a waste of money since you don't NEED the items anyway. If they had really good deals on lighting I'd be out there too but electrical distributors don't typically have Black Friday sales lol (unless it's one of those deals like "Spend $200 or more and get $10 off your next order" or some stupid deal like that lol).

I HATE huge mobs of people and traffic so I stay locked in my house with the shades pulled down the day after Thanksgiving lol. I agree though, it seems like it's "Black Thursday" in recent years. It's like how the car model year begins in the summer because companies kept trying to start the new model year earlier and earlier than their competitors. I guess same thing is happening with Black Friday. Rhode Island has a law that prohibits any "non-essential" businesses from being open on Thanksgiving so the earliest the BF deals start here is 12 AM on the Friday. That doesn't stop people from lining up three days in advance to get into the store. :8) At least most big stores on't give out "x" amount of products at a time, so for example, if WalMart is selling 60" LCD TVs for 80% off, they'll only sell three TVs every two hours or something like that to give everyone a chance to get in on the deals.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 04, 2015, 08:51:59 PM
I know the couple who runs the weather station here in Port Alexander, AK and I asked and they told me the coldest they've recorded was like 2 or 4F overnight lows, and never triple-digit midday highs, but, it doesn't stay  that cold/hot here, thanks to being right on the ocean.  Whereas places in Interior Alaska, like Fairbanks, get triple-digit hot in the summer and as cold as -70F in the winter. 

Oh just imagine the Doorbuster specials at an electrical store! All one or two Lighting Gallery members in a given region turning out in full force!

I will email you later. 

Yeah I'd probably do the same thing, just hide indoors LOL. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on November 04, 2015, 09:43:45 PM
@Mike:
No idea what the coldest windchill for me was... I've always only looked at the actual temp.
Once it gets down to -10F even instant-start electronic ballasts don't like it.

If you're gonna buy electronics (especially something like a TV) Black Friday is the day to do it (assuming you want the best deals) LOL Same goes for DVDs or Bluray movies.
Its one thing to spend a hour or 2 waiting in line for a deal...but people who camp out infront of stores for days are insane. NO DEAL is worth that!!

I am 100% against laws that prevent 'normal' stores from being open any day/time they wish. ('normal' stores IMO excludes stuff like guns-stores/liquor-stores/pot-shops)
Here WalMart does a "one-hour gaurntee" with some of their Black Friday TV's and other items. (meaning if they run out of the item at the store before the hour is up, they give out some sorta card...you take that, pay for the item, and when the store gets more in stock you go pick it up. (Never done it myself, but that seems a good way for them to go :) )) 

-------
There was something I went to down in the city a couple years ago (not a sale or anything, but I guess you could say an event)...if you wanna talk big crowds that deff would count! 


@GEsoftwhite100watts:
I'm shocked to hear that it doesn't get below zero there :o
Occasionally it'll get just above 100 here (personally I would take that any day over anything below zero LOL)
Doorbuster specials would be awesome at a lighting store (if it was one that sold fluorescents)

Were you able to tune in any far away radio stations?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 04, 2015, 10:38:32 PM
Why are you against laws that prevent stores from forcing people to work on major holidays? I'm totally for it since I work in retail and don't want to work on Thanksgiving or Xmas. >:( "Essential" stores like pharmacies are open but large retail stores are not.  There's no reason for stores to be open on Thanksgiving because, aside from essentials like medication, food, and water, there's nothing one needs to buy immediately and can't put off another day.

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 04, 2015, 10:41:53 PM
I think that one's debatable.  I tend to agree with you, Mike, but I can also see the flip side...more money (especially since it's overtime most likely for those employees if they're willing to work and don't have a family at home, etc) and since there's always that last-minute shopping rush...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 05, 2015, 06:47:38 AM
True. I see it as a "day of rest" for the world of consumerism. It's a little over the top for stored to need to be open 24/7 365 days a year IMO. Maine, Massachusetts, and Rhode Island are the only three states with this "Blue Law" that I am aware of. It dates way back to the colonial era and was just never discarded as a law. There have been numerous attempts by businesses to repeal the law (at least in RI) but citizens and the State alike shot it down, being satisfied with the status quo.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 05, 2015, 11:08:12 AM
Yeah, but it's really helpful when you work weird/stupid hours and the only time you can go grocery shopping is at 2AM!  Plus the stores are almost empty and there's way less traffic on the roads LOL.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 05, 2015, 04:56:54 PM
Yes but it's one night. There's always the next day... One day will not make a life or death situation in most cases. In the few instances it could, those stores are permitted to stay open.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on November 05, 2015, 09:11:55 PM
Quote from: Mike link
Why are you against laws that prevent stores from forcing people to work on major holidays?
I just see it as... stores should have the right to choose whatever days/times they wish to be open/closed.


Nobody is holding a gun to the workers heads forcing them to work. I've known people who are fine with working holidays, especially because they get that extra holiday pay-rate.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 05, 2015, 10:06:04 PM
Yeah it goes both ways LOL...

Oh and to answer your question xmaslightguy...yes I did pick up quite a bit of stuff! All the 50Kw and 10Kw "blowtorches" from Seattle or Blaine, WA, KPOJ 620 of Portland, KGO 810 San Francisco, and I also get a lot of Canadian stations from Calgary, Vancouver, etc... and many others...too many to list.  The dial was crackling with life LOL.  And other nights if there's aurora activity there's NOTHING! LOL.  Not even ONE single station.  So it's a total crap shoot DXing from here at night on AM. 
And here it's one local FM, (yes, ONE!) which is a relay/translator of KCAW-FM 104.7 of Sitka, AK, which we've talked about before (It's the one that doesn't broadcast in stereo but apparently used to, only part of the time! (Music, etc. but dropping it for news, etc).  Seems strange but I can tell you their main signal on 104.7 is HUGE, especially for being only 3600 watts non-directional I think.  With a good antenna (A marine VHF antenna and Shakespeare band separator, it looks like a cable TV splitter) it gets out a LONG way!  And that's also considering their transmitter is maybe a couple hundred feet above sea level and WAY below average terrain!)

The other FM I get here, albeit weakly, is a translator/relay of KFSK-FM 100.9 of Petersburg, AK.  Another case of being a flamethrower for being on FM in a very rural, mountainous area, that translator is apparently a power-grid-crashing 140 watts, not much more than a light bulb! It's city of license is Point Baker, AK, a place similar to where I live, but their transmitter seems to be elsewhere, I think it's on top of a mountain a good 50-some miles away!  It does cover a huge area though, I can tell you I've DX'ed that one too flying in a small single-engine plane and it's loud and clear for a good 50 miles each way once you get above average terrain! 

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 07, 2015, 04:02:33 PM
Hey Mike, you'll like this:  My dad and I are somewhat considering buying a place on like 6 acres in Delta Junction, AK, less than 2 hours' drive from  Fairbanks.  It's off-grid but has solar, has water, is on the road system, is 3 bedroom 1 bath,  and guess what? It's another house that's not "done"!  Rennovation project LOL.  Very reminiscent of the house we're currently in (and would be keeping as well) in terms of weird-ness. 
Has a garden, greenhouse, etc.   Perfect for people who would be "car collectors" like my dad and myself (For him it'd be hot rods, for me it'd be surplus army trucks LOL.)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 08, 2015, 12:05:57 PM
...and I just replied by email to the Craigslist ad for that place.  Personally the one thing I hate about Craigslist is their email reply system! And when people don't put phone numbers in! Or ask you to text them, and I can't (no cell phone service at my house). 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 08, 2015, 08:38:33 PM
Oh wow, nice! Sounds like a cool house! :D I like houses that need a little TLC. Being on-grid and a little closer to "civilization", it will probably be easier to fix it up to your liking.

Yeah, not a huge fan of Craigslist lol. I want to sell some of the stuff from that shed haul with my grandpa but I think eBay charges a % of the selling price and I don't feel like meeting with people through Craigslist lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 08, 2015, 09:29:02 PM
Yeah, it's just as bizarre as my current one (Have I ever showed you pictures? Or can you tell by other uploads and seeing what's in the background?)

It lacks siding for the most part, it's just plywood.  There's some wood shakes and Tyvek but they look sloppy and I'd probably rip all those off, but I'll leave that one up to my dad, it'll be his place anyway, at least in my mind (Even though I'd be living there while in college).

Roof is delta-rib metal, and looks in good condition.  Some of the windows appear to be modern double-pane vinyl but others look like either those 80s Marvin or Anderson wood-frame double-pane windows, which were nice in their day in that they could be left natural wood on the inside and painted easily on the outside to match the color scheme of a house but they rot fast in our wet climate here.  I lived in a house where all the windows were like that for a couple years in 2008-2010 and they sucked.  The windows would condensate/sweat on the inside when the house was empty and thus had no heat in it (It was/is a friend's vacation/summer home they let us stay at/house-sit until we got a place of out own) and thus that would rot the frames (The wood was visibly weathered on the INSIDE after 25-30 years of this) and on the outside all the windows on the 2 sides of the house that really get hit by weather were/there ones that haven't been replaced are rotten.  We had two in particular that had "fogged up" (Ever seen that, where double-pane windows lose their internal seal and water/condensation gets inside, fogging it up? It happens all the time around here) so we went to replace them as part of our "rent".  Instead of replacing the whole windows with modern vinyl ones (It happened later but I'll get to that) we carefully took them apart.  We took apart the trim very carefully on the inside, then undid the "L" shelf brackets securing the frames to the studs of the wall, took them out, took of the rotten quarter-round moulding on the outside, took out the double-pane glass, having pre-ordered new "Thermopane" and installed that in place.  I remember we even took one frame over to the construction job my dad was working at the time and cut the rot out with his table saw and glued a new piece in place.  Went to install the new panes, had everything caulked with 5200, and my dad was tapping in the finish nails for the also-made-at-work-on-the-table-saw moulding to hold the glass, and one misplaced hit with the hammer and CRACK!  :P :P  So then we ordered ANOTHER piece.  I wasn't there when this one went in (Was actually in Atascadero visiting my mom) but my dad told me he had it all caulked up, set it by the woodstove to dry, and CRACK! (Heat expansion). 

I started joking this particular rough opening was cursed LOL.

Finally he got ANOTHER pane, installed this, and it worked! Alas, about a year later both these windows got broken by a hungry grizzly bear looking for food in the (now empty/unlived in during the winter) house.  So THEN they got replaced with modern (I think Milgard) vinyl windows.  Which should have happened from the very beginning).

Anyway.  This house I'm looking at appears to have either some of those horrible wood-frame 80s windows, or those 70s aluminum-frame slider windows.  My current house has a few of those, all fogged up except for the one that's single-pane (Which they all were in California BTW until everyone started replacing them with vinyl double pane units).  But mine are powdercoated black, not just plain aluminum, which these appear to be.  I know if it's up to me that place is getting a state-funded home weatherization rebate (Do the work and they reimburse you), which I'd also like to do to "my" house here, replacing windows, etc. 

There's a nice, new 2-story deck though. 

The house lacks interior finishes in at least one room, there appears to either be fiberglass insulation or that spray-in-between-studs foam stuff. And at least one other room appears to have painted OSB in place of drywall, but that's good enough for me LOL.  Nice thing about a house that isn't "done" is that it can be finished the way you want without undoing other stuff first.  Like for example, in the pictures I saw in the listing, all the fixed/overhead light fixtures I saw appear to be ceramic keyless JB sockets...which can be replaced with what we want, not "Do I like that or not"?  At least they aren't those "breast" lights, which we both despise. (Our current house has two and we hate them). 

Oh and Mike, I also saw something today where I totally thought of you! I was visiting this guy in his 70s at this house he has here (Doesn't live there, just has as an asset) and he's here doing maintenance and trying to sell the place, so I got to see the inside, even though I walk by every day.  It's one of those 20s-30s era houses, with all original double-hung sash windows, shiplap exterior siding, original doors, beadboard paneling, asbestos tile kitchen floor, etc.  Total time capsule in the form of a house.  Anyway, the place still has intact knob and tube wiring, though it's disconnected. (But looks to be in great shape, could rpobably be powered up and be fine!) It's replaced with modern stuff that's like BX cable but plastic.  The breaker panel isn't existent, but there's switches which look like regular heavy-duty SNAP switches but are also circuit breakers (They trip off if overloaded).  One for the basement and its 8 ceramic JB lights and a couple outlets, one for the attic, one for the guest house next door, and then the main level is an old fuse panel but with those screw-in circuit breakers (Maybe reused from the knob and tube?).  It's beautifully done though.  The whole place is neat.  And the basement? He dug it out by hand years ago, and put a good foundation under it.  Wood basement walls, but all the REALLY toxic treated wood, so it should NEVER rot LOL.  And the floor joists are still original and in great shape! I even admitted I was enjoying the place, with its original features, as I have an affinity for old houses and antiques.  (I'm a teenager who knows what knob and tube wiring is, what asbestos floor tile is, etc).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on November 10, 2015, 12:50:27 AM
@GEsoftwhite100watts:
Cool...sounds like that was a good 'radio night' GEsoftwhite100watts :) surprizing how far some of those came in from :shock:
I wonder how far one of the 100kw stations here would go if you stuck it up there in the middle of nowhere ??
There's was a station here that used "the 100,000 watt blowtorch of the rockies" as its slogan :lol:

I personally would love to see the northern lights/aurora borealis! (not much chance of it happening though)

-------

I'd be ok with a house that needed some fixup (as long as it wasn't structual problems)
Hell I'd be fine with gutting a place and completly ripping out the electrical & re-doing it if such was needed.
Solar would be nice... but I'd also need grid as a backup (and be near a 'real' city LOL)

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@Mike:
eBay charges 10%-12% of the sale price as a final value fee...and they also f**k you again the same percentage on what you charge for shipping (so you have basically have to build in a handling fee to help make up for it)...oh and there's one more: the PayPal fee (don't remember the percentage, but its less than eBay)
I'd still rather sell stuff there than on CL
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 10, 2015, 03:31:58 PM
What I don't get is how are you able to calculate shipping to begin with if you don't know who's going to buy it. Obviously shipping to California from Rhode Island is going to cost more than shipping to Connecticut.

Never seen knob & tube wiring in person. Just pictures. Personally I'd replace it if I bought a house with it. I'm not comfortable having something that antiquated running through the walls in my house, even if it's safe. I'd ideally like my house's wiring to be no older than the 80s since by then aluminum wiring wasn't a big thing anymore and the same basic codes still exist for the wires themselves, other than bathrooms needing 20A outlets or whatever (which I don't care about anyway; no one's going to use a 2400W hairdryer :8) ). GFCIs probably weren't required as often either but that's an easy fix.  I love 60s and 70s commercial buildings though, with the brown switches and outlets and bare metal faceplates (either chrome or brushed/satin). Since the 90s my school district has used almond (or ivory; both pretty much the same cream color) switches and outlets with brushed metal faceplates. I'm glad they still use metal faceplates but it doesn't look as cool without brown outlets and switches. The old breakers from the 70s in the votech building at my school are brown Westinghouse ones. They look cooler than modern ones. They look like large switches but insanely hard to flip.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 10, 2015, 09:11:22 PM
I've seen plenty of knob and tube in person.   If I bought a house old/not rennovated recently enough to have it, I'd keep it in use if it was in good condition since IMHO it'd be neat having it still working the better part of a century later.  I would probably add more heavy-duty circuits though, since face it, electrical demands have grown since the 1910s-1940s LOL.  (When DID they quit using K&T?).  For lighting circuits, in theory it'd be easier on the K&T nowadays with the advent of CFLs for general lighting LOL.  But I'd love to have an in-good-condition-and-working knob and tube system!

Aluminum wire is a totally different story than K&T IMHO.  I would definitely check my wiring if I bought a house built in the '60s-'70s (Come to think of it, this place I'm looking at right now looks to me like a hippie 70s homestead house) so it might have it.  The big issue with aluminum is non-compatible devices or joining methods for joining it to copper.  (dissimilar metal issues).  And it has higher resistance values, so for example you'd need to use #12 where normally #14 would be fine, #10 in place of #12, etc.  If, for example, this place I'm looking at right now turns out to have any, I'd probably just make sure the circuit breakers were downsized appropriately and the right wiring devices and joining methods are used!
The other one I kinda dislike is the modern yellow #12 Romex...it just seems chintzy compared to the 70s-80s-90s stuff! Granted, the older stuff has lunch bag paper on the inside, which if you ask me is the stupidest insulating material you could use...overloaded wire overheats, a fire starts!

Thankfully, my house here has 70s at the oldest, and THAT stuff is all copper!  I've checked.  No knob and tube, no 50s "Loomex", no aluminum.  It's all black 70s stuff, 80s-90s white stuff, and 2010s yellow stuff.  (And some #12 SJTW in a few places, but done "right" LOL).

I agree, even the older circuit breakers "snap" better! I like old breakers and those old cartridge-fuse lever disconnect switches!

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on November 10, 2015, 09:28:06 PM
@Mike:
That's the easy part :)
You weigh the item (including shipping box and packing material!)... then put that weight in a option for 'calculated shipping' when building an auction listing.
It does all the calculating automatically, based on the weight you gave, and distance the buyer is from you.
You can also add a "handling fee" to the calculated-shipping (the buyer only sees it as a single shipping charge).

---------
I remember those old  bare-metal faceplates in schools & commercial buildings.


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@GEsoftwhite100watts I've never seen knob and tube wiring (other than in a museum).
If I was ever to get a place with that...I'd be ripped out & replaced (or simply disconnected and left in the walls)
Same would go for Aluminum (although I'd trust it more than K&T)
Either one if left original I'd end up frying LOL ... especially around xmas season.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 11, 2015, 10:40:55 AM
That's why you add more circuits!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 11, 2015, 02:48:59 PM
No knob & tube wiring for me. It's more the cloth wiring. I couldn't sleep at night knowing everything was wired with cloth wiring. Cloth wiring looks cool and is left alone is OK but the insulation still gets brittle and I'd be paranoid something would go wrong. I don't trust old cloth wiring one bit.

With aluminum wiring, as long as the whole house has the original wiring and nothing's been added or replaced, I'd leave it too. The aluminum wiring itself is not dangerous or bad. It's at the splices. Unfortunately aluminum-compatible devices are not easy to find, making it inconvenient.

Uh, Romex still has has paper around the copper wiring, not just the "old stuff". If you have a wire getting hot enough to start a fire you have a bigger issue to worry about anyway. It would only be a matter of time before the wire heated up enough to melt the plastic insulating material and start an electrical fire. If it wasn't safe, it wouldn't be used. What's "loomex"? That old NM cable with rubber insulated wires inside a cloth jacket? My grandparents house has that (mom's mom and mom's step-dad, who scraps). It's ungrounded too. My grandma's and aunt's house was wired with ungrounded BX cable, with grounded Romex added in the 70s and 80s.

Those circuit breakers in our shop in the votech building have too much spring tension IMO. They're almost impossible to flip! However I agree that modern breakers flip with too much ease. With the breakers in my house, you just have to push the breaker ever-so-slightly and it'll flip off. Flipping on is more difficult, as it is with the Westinghouse breakers in our shop too, though that's how they're supposed to be. To encourage the breaker to flip off when someone goes to it in a panic and can't really put full strength into flipping it. Except for a few possible instances, it's always safer to have the breaker accidentally turn off than accidentally turn on!



Ah I see. And it let's you choose the carrier too? Because different carriers have different prices for the same package and if the scale is off the price will be too. That's why I always go to the post office to get a quote before I collect shipping money. I'll have to look into that since apparently no one else on LG is interested in what I have to sell so I'll have to turn to eBay...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 11, 2015, 08:38:34 PM
Yeah, aluminum should be fine if left alone. Do your Universal Therm-O-Matic green/yellow label F40/RS ballasts have aluminum wire? At least two of mine (PCB-containing, mid-late 70s vintage) seem to.  Or maybe it's just tinned.  IDK...it's also thinner than on Advance Kool-Koil ballasts from the same era.

So I called up the realtor today and asked a laundry list of questions about that place.  Got some good answers! What she doesn't know, she'll find out.  It does have a septic, no property taxes, no HOA, all the good things.  Only bummer was that what appeared to be a barn across a dirt road is actually the neighbor across a creek LOL.  But that's what you get from fuzzy probably-cellphone-camera photos LOL.   We'll see...we're really interested in the place...I'm just the one doing the initial legwork! (Calling up the realtor, etc).

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 11, 2015, 09:10:17 PM
Since found out it was built in '77/'81/'06, so  probably no aluminum wire thankfully!  The legal jargon does mention that for dwellings built before '78 the lead paint disclosure must be completed...I'd always wondered when lead paint was banned, now I know!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on November 11, 2015, 10:00:19 PM
@Mike:
Yep, it lets you choose the carrier too (USPS or FedEx...I believe you can do UPS too, but you need to sign up for a UPS account too...where the other 2 just work as is). it sometimes under-estimates FedEx alittle, so you'll deff want to include a handling fee if you choose that option. (I personally use post-office/USPS for most things since there's one close to home & another close to work)

@GEsoftwhite100watts
True...if you can. Once the breakerbox is full that's it (maybe you can add a sub-panel, but) Then there's the overall limit too
I still get a laugh out of a post from years ago:
There was a guy on one of the xmas-light forums I'm on, who put up a big fancy display (computer controlled & all that). He fired it up and after it ran for a while the power in the house started flickering or dimming. He went outside to see what was up, and right around that time there was a big BZZZZT...BOOM! - it blew the transformer right off the pole LOL, not only that, it  shorted something, and that blew power to the entire neighborhood :o :lol:


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The original house my parents bought here in Colorado had Aluminum wire...I can remember my dad went through and changed out all the outlets & switches for the correct/compatible type. Ofcourse in that process found some weird/unsafe things. The previous owner had finished a couple rooms in the basement, and on all the outlets they added, they didn't connect the ground wire (it was there, and the outlets had a ground pin, but for some reason not connected) :o
There's other things they'd really fucked up with the wiring in that house too.
One circuit even if you turned off the bereaker you'd still get shocked (and there was a dim glow in lights, so not a full 120v)
Then there was 2 circuits where one would go dim & the other bright (it'd change/flicker/etc depending on what you turned on/off on both)
I have no idea how/what exactly they did to that house's wiring for stuff like that, but my dad fixed it.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 11, 2015, 11:03:03 PM
Sounds like on the one they had the legs screwed up or no neutral, so those two circuits were in series.  IDK about the other one with lights glowing dimly even if the breaker is off though. 

That's hilarious!  I wonder if everyone instantly knew his house was to blame?

This house I'm looking at right now...in the full-disclosure paperwork (Known issues/things wrong with the house) there was a field about the current owner having remodeled/done major structural changes...and there was a series of checkboxes about it having been done with permits and up to any applicable codes...NO!  I had to laugh, knowing it's in rural Alaska, what do I expect? Of course there's stuff probably not up to code! I really do wonder how the wiring is though!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 12, 2015, 08:14:08 PM
Seems the late 70s was when they started cracking down on harmful substances. PCBs, lead paint, asbestos, lol (well I guess asbestos still continued on after that, no?) I think lead paint is still made but it's illegal here. There were some Mattel toy cars that were manufactured with lead paint around 2000-ish. I remember a huge recall being made a few years after the fact.

Not sure what my Universal ballasts have for wires. i know a number of my ballasts have aluminum wires, or at least tinned. Not sure if it's genuine aluminum.

Ahh good to know about the eBay thing. Now, I assume eBay automatically takes the fees out upfront before the money you earn is deposited into your bank account, right? Or do they send a bill through the mail?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 12, 2015, 09:17:00 PM
Yeah, that's what I was thinking too!
And if I end up moving into this house we're looking at I might end up remodeling this one I'm into now into a different layout, with 3 actual bedrooms instead of one official bedroom. And another bathroom.  So yeah, even more rennovating! For about $10K this place could get a lot done to it in terms of layout changes and updates.  It'd possibly end up being a rental/place for my dad when a tenant isn't in here.  I know I am now really going to pursue the Deuce project, since I might now be having a major situational change, and moving all my stuff (Lighting collection included) to a different house in a completely different area, and calling THAT my primary residence. Not to mention hauling a lot of building materials for this place!  In fact that place has a weird little study area at the top of the stairs that would be a neat bulb museum/display area.  If my dad would allow it in the house LOL...if not I'll build a shop...but we like that other place almost more than this, it's more conducive to our interests and hobbies.  6 acres is perfect for gardeners, junk collectors, vehicle collectors, (Hot rods and surplus army trucks LOL), etc.  Only drawback is that half of it is on the other side of a creek and the neighbor's driveway/easement goes through the yard.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 13, 2015, 09:46:22 PM
Oh and as far as asbestos, it's still used in many things.  For example, exhaust wrap insulation, door gasket on woodstoves, etc.  I know of a lot of old houses here in town that have the old asbestos floor tile.  IMO asbestos, lead paint, and knob and tube wiring are all just fine if LEFT ALONE AND NOT TAMPERED WITH!  Or if remodeling, go right over asbestos flooring, removing only loose tiles, paint over lead paint and sand really minimally, etc. I know some interesting cases of getting around it though.  For example, doing an epoxy resin directly over asbestos floor tile, thus encapsulating it forever.  Or at this old army base (Camp Roberts, CA) they went over the lead-painted bevel siding on all the buildings with corrugated metal roofing.  Granted, they also demolished a lot of perfectly good buildings because of asbestos and lead paint LOL.  Government waste IMO...the wood was so much better back then (old-growth stuff) so it's a shame you couldn't sell them off to be torn down by hand and salvaged.  I once helped tear down a (1979, no hazmat) house here (Same house the Bonusline-ballasted Sears shoplight came from) and saved a TON of materials! 2X4s, some already-reused-once wood-frame 1920s windows, and a ton of electrical stuff.  Some other people got (In no particular order by person), a kitchen sink, doors, other windows, you name it!  I'd like to reinstall the windows again somewhere but they're single-pane and too drafty.  Maybe in a shed or something. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 14, 2015, 12:02:35 PM
It's still in use but it's not used anymore.  Asbestos is not installed anymore however existing stuff can remain as long as it is sealed. In my school, all the classrooms have asbestos panels on the ceiling to absorb sound. They sealed it by having it spraypainted.

Asbestos was commonly used to insulate heating pipes (for steam systems). My friend's dad is a plumber and when he's got to remove the stuff he just saturates it with a spray bottle. It's only toxic when the particles go airborne so if you saturate it, nothing can go airborne. Then you can remove it in clumps by hand. It's a shame asbestos is a carcinogen since it's so practical otherwise. It's a good insulator, sound absorber, it's flame retardant, heat resistant, and was cheap back in the day.

On another note, remember by friend Sebastian's 2X F20/PH decorative basement lights with the frosted sag glasses and the weak starters? Well I'm going to replace all 12 lamps and up to six weak starters with good ones I have (I only have six I'm willing to use) so those lights will be good as new. I'm replacing all the lamps with NOS Sylvania /WWs from 1986 because they're good lamps but an awful color so I want to use them up lol. Plus I still have a bunch of them from that case of 30 I bought lol. This way, the lights will all be uniform too. I think daylight would actually look best in these cool lights (make them look like skylights) but it's kinda dark down there and halophosphate WW lamps are pretty bright so I'll use 'em up. I told him about the kinda-yucky color and he said he doesn't care. Half the lamps down there are a dingy green anyways (probably the original CW lamps!) and some of them don't come on so anything is an improvement lol. Plus I think the wood paneling will look better with the WW tubes that it would with daylight tubes (unless the daylight tubes were triphosphor).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 14, 2015, 01:17:27 PM
Depends. If you used deluxe halophosphate Philips daylight deluxe it would look OK.  I have a Philips FC8T9/DX and love its color. 

I've admittedly been having this fantasy: What if this house we're looking at has a bunch of F40 preheat fixtures in the rooms not pictured in the listing? LOL
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 14, 2015, 04:52:04 PM
Eh not with wood paneling. Even if the wood paneling didn't look life-drained, WW has a way of making wood stuff look nice, like how clear MV makes vegetation look nice and vibrant. ;D

That would be awesome!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 14, 2015, 07:38:25 PM
Nah my /DX makes wood look pretty decent actually!  If not, I'd do something high-lumen 5000K.  I'd normally say /950 but it might be too dim and "flickery".  (The phosphors don't have much afterglow so if used on magnetic preheat ballasts like these are the stroboscope effect might annoy some people).  CWX does the same thing, in fact I personally feel like it's even more flickery than /950!

Yeah, my ideal setup would honestly be a whole house and shop lit with 1950s preheat shoplights with /950 or daylight deluxe lamps.  Well, at this place I might move to with subzero winter temps I'd go with F96T12/HO or VHO as my ideal lighting, again with daylight lamps.  And some nice old 175w NEMAs, probably with clear lamps...I actually like them better than /DX when behind a diffuser.  Granted, I've never seen /C, /N, /W, etc. lit in person so I can't decide.  But I'd love to find some of those color-suffix lamps. Although honestly my favorite currently-produced 175w mercuries are the True-Value-store-brand Westpointe "cleartop" china-mercs.  They seem very well made but I've also heard they don't last forever either.  I just want a few cases of NOS Lifeguard cleartops LOL...

BTW, has anybody figured out if MV lamps are really banned from manufacture at the end of this year? I've heard/read speculation on both sides...like it's happening but there's no official literature anybody on LG could find anywhere else.

In all actuality, I could install "my" M-400A at this place! Just think of the possibilities!  I might keep it HPS if everything works, but if the ballast or ignitor are bad I might disconnect them and wire the socket straight through and remote ballast it with a MV/MH ballast.  Although honestly I'd still almost rather you have it and restore it "properly" instead of my probably-hack-job.  I'd still be up to trade it someday for a 2+ lamp F40 preheat shoplight or a mercury NEMA.  (Either one in working condition, even if not restored).

However, I probably shouldn't go too overboard on the lighting there either, since it also is off-grid and thus I'm sorta limited, especially overnight.  (The only dusk to dawn light at my current house is a 13w 6500K spiral CFL; I wish I could reinstall my 175w mercury yardblaster and have it in dusk to dawn service).

If I move permanently, I'm trying to think of what I should take with me light-wise.  Probably most of my loose lamps/ballasts, but I could live without the umpteen empty ballastless shoplight and wraparound husks.  I'd probably also get rid of lamps/ballasts I don't have other compatible accessories for.  And I have no need for the 400w MH stuff.  That would leave me with my yardblaster (definite keeper for sentimental reasons of where it came from), all my loose lamps (Boxes of incandescents, etc and a bunch of F40s).  I'd probably also take all my F40 fixtures that have vintage HPF rapid start ballasts (Bonusline, Therm-O-Matic, Kool-Koil, etc).  Some would be easy to take, being suspended, but I think I might also take two other Sears shoplights I have hardmounted currently with me.  All the cheap LPF RS shoplights and wrapsarounds can stay, as can the 2' Lithonia F20 strips with crappy trigger start ballasts.

Hopefully this won't happen for awhile, unless I have to sell THIS house right off and move out quickly.  Ideally it'd be a couple years before that happens, and/or I might make it into a rental/income property (It would be viable here in Port Alexander, housing is actually surprisingly hard to come by here).  But if that happens all my lighting stuff will be with me at the "new" house in Delta Junction, AK. 

And in case you're wondering about the electrical system the house has solar panels!  Yay!  The sun in interior Alaska gets really intense in the summer and really long daylight hours too, so I can see going entire days without starting a generator at all! Especially considering the refrigerator is propane, so it'd just be stuff like a TV, stereo system, lights for a little bit in the evening, etc.  Batteries are apparently "newish deep cycle batteries" (Literally the current owner's words) and there's a 2000w inverter.  Plenty for just lights, etc...that's all I have here for an inverter. It'd be nice if this one was not modified-sine-wave though, whereas mine is. 

Apparently the place has two (gas guzzling and loud I bet) 5000 watt Honda generators.  That's way more than I'd normally need during the summer months, so I'd be tempted to buy a 2000 watt or 3000 watt, more modern Honda unit.  Quiet and easier on gas.  I can see the need for 5000 watts though, getting up on winter mornings when it's dark and -40F we'd be charging the house batteries, have all the lights on, and be turning on the engine block heaters in our vehicles to warm them up so they start. But when not needed I'd prefer to not run the 5000 watter.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 14, 2015, 07:52:28 PM
Oh and we're getting one little baby step closer with the Deuce!  He wants to get it running soon, so it's drivable, and stick a cargo cover on and store all his stuff in there (It's currently at the house he's moving out of and selling; there's a rent-to-own tenant in there now who should be buying the place soon).  This is GREAT news for me, since it will be in running condition and I won't have to worry about it until this summer, probably in June.  It was phrased to me that it might be more trouble for me than it's worth, but we'll see how it goes.  I plan to be in California visiting my godparents during the first part of June when I graduate, so maybe I can just fly to Seattle and then drive from Port Townsend, WA to either Sitka and work in a place just outside of Port Alexander I might get a job at for the summer, or just drive straight through to Delta Junction/Fairbanks if we get that house, move in, and get a job there.

I'm getting excited!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 14, 2015, 09:32:08 PM
I would have a hard time parting with any of my collection. Eventually everything will come with me to my house. I'll just get some cheap fluorescents for the garage, utility room and laundry room. I will leave the three lamp F17T8 wrap behind though. Everything else I just couldn't leave behind. The first things I'll take when I move out are the loose things like all my lamps and cobraheads. The stuff that's mounted like the two cobraheads outside and the fluorescent lights in the house will likely be the last to come to my own house when that time comes. Ditto for the street light display (I'll probably end up taking it with me and putting it in my future basement so I can have a cobrahead down there. My future spouse might not appreciate a bedroom street light lol. The living space of my house will be a "normal" as possible, with the basement and any potential outbuildings being dedicated to my collection. Fluorescent lights in the "living space" would be aesthetics-oriented lights such as my wood paneling surface mount 1X2 light or my 4X F20 cloud/puff light. Lights to light up the garage will probably be my HO light and others that can withstand cold. I'd have some room with a drop ceiling somewhere, where my Lithonia parabolic troffer could be properly mounted, hopefully along with a 2X F40/RS 1X4 drop dish troffer. 8)

Whether MV lamps are being banned or not, hardly any of the remaining mercs are serviced anymore; a good portion of what remains simply haven't needed new lamps yet. NGrid is 100% replacing the last 100W mercs now. No more new lamps. Of course, unless they're reported they stay but it's sad that there are no more new lamps. Seekonk Speedway, with all its 400W mercs, is planning a massive lighting overhaul. NGrid will be doing an audit for LEDs. The project is supposed to be completed sometime in 2016, just in time for the "ban", if there is one. the Speedway uses all clear 400W mercs, running on 208V 3-phase. There are some MH sports lights that were added and run on 120V. They're connected to one of the three 208V legs and the neutral is just connected to ground (literally the ground; each pole has its own grounding rod).

Great on the deuce! Sounds like you're getting closer to getting it! 8)

BTW, looks like those F20 lights will be put off at least until next weekend.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 14, 2015, 10:23:48 PM
You just phrased it perfectly: I would have a hard time parting with any of my collection!

This place appears to have those ceramic pullchain-type lights in every room the listing has pictures of.  I'd almost be tempted to put fluorescents in their place! At least in my bedroom.  I'm a little leery on linear fluorescents in living spaces though at the same time after having an 8 foot slimline come crashing down on me laying in my bed one right.  Cleaning up that toxic mess kinda dampened my enthusiasm for linear fluorescents LOL.  But this place appears to have OSB or plywood for wall covering, not drywall.  I just know I'd want shatter guards after that experience LOL.

There appear to be no exterior lights, that would also change LOL.  Probably not CFLs either in the cold, I'd go LED or some kind of HID, preferably MV but if I had to buy new fixtures HPS yardblasters and tallpacks would do the trick LOL. My dad likes HPS...

Is there any chance you can get any of these lights? They might have multi-tap ballasts, so could run on 120v at home.  You could sell the rest on here or eBay or something.  Don't let them go if you can.  Then again, it's one of those stupid energy retrofit jobs, so I can imagine they might have to be scrapped, it'd be mandatory.  But sneak one or two out of the dumpster if you can! 

If you can at least get lamps, I might be interested in a few later on down the line, since I like the color of clear mercs. Might be a reason to save one of my highbay heads if I move...  (I know, I've said I'd take several items by now). 

Yeah, I think I'm going to approach him about seeing if we can drive up together, he can drive up, or leave it down there and I drive up here or something.  That'd be a fun adventure! Plus it'd really come in handy come August-ish when I move out for college...that would be our "move" date. 

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 15, 2015, 09:43:05 AM
That's weird having pullchain lights in every room. Are they actual pullchains or keyless and controlled by a wall switch like in my house? (or are they pullchain AND controlled by a switch? lol) Yeah I could see some fluorescents making their way into that house! As long as you install the fixture into studs you shouldn't have to worry. :P With OSB/plywood you should be good too. Drywall kinda sucks IMO. It's just chalk between two sheets of paper. >:( :8)

I don't think they're multi-volt but I guess they could be. I asked Marco to do whatever he could to save as many photocells as possible since those are the easiest to get, being small and of no scrap value. The fixtures have scrap value and the lamps have recycling as a requirement so those will probably not be very easy to get. I will try to get a couple for myself. I'm done shipping cobraheads though lol. Too much work and money lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 15, 2015, 02:03:10 PM
They appear to be the same kind but without pullchains.   I have a couple in my house which are pullchained AND switched though.

Yeah, just imagine upgrading to 8 foot slimlines everywhere! (I have five 8 foot slimline strips) Only thing I don't like is how LOUD slimlines can be!

Yeah cobras must be ridiculous to ship! But a bunch of lamps would probably be worth it to you!

Oh and reading about your ReStore finds, bummer about the F17 lamps!  It seems to me like they just tend to be junky overall as lamps!  As for the Philips-Westy F40CWs, is the one that won't light on preheat blackened at all? Look inside with a laser pointer if you have one to see if the electrode is intact, though that might also be hard with cathode guards.  If not, use it up on RS till it dies then throw it on the electronic lamp cooker ballast us lighting enthusiasts all have!

What are the endcaps like? GE-ish but squared off instead of round but still having the "racoon-eye" insulators? One round disc? Or like current Sylvanias?  (I have Norelco F40CWs with the first and last of the styles listed).  In fact my Vita-Lite Power Twist F40 has the first, GE-ish style ends! (And no cathode guards, and thin phosphor like a Sylvania!)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 15, 2015, 09:43:06 PM
Ah yeah those are called keyless lamp holders. That's what I have in my house. They're basically a "git 'er done" fixture lol. They look OK in unfinished areas but in my garage they look ridiculous since it's finished lol. But we want the 100W lamp so it'll stay.

Yeah I don't like modern Philips lamps. To check the F40's cathode, I can hook a volt meter between the two pins on each end and measure for resistance. I've done that in the past. Also, on NPF RS the lamp could likely rectify, whereas HPF (which I tested it on) prevents rectification. The endcaps look like any other Philips (or Sylvania) endcaps, with guards at one end. I posted pics on LG.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 15, 2015, 10:02:48 PM
One end? Should be both on a lamp that old...

Yeah, they can look out of place in totally finished areas! With painted OSB they don't seem too awful but like I said I'd probably eventually stick fluorescents up in their place.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 15, 2015, 10:35:01 PM
Hey Mike, remember how awhile back we were talking about weird freeway interchanges and you described some of the ones you have in RI you drive on all the time?   (Like freeways just randomly dead-ending at a traffic light, etc). Well I've been Streetviewing in the Fairbanks area on the sections of freeway I'd be driving all the time if I move there. You should go on Streetview look up the Richardson Highway here in Alaska, leaving Fairbanks going south.  You'll laugh.  Let's see...railroad tracks randomly crossing the freeway ( 4 lane, jersey barrier in some places, 55MPH speed limit, etc).  With no signs like "Railroad Xing 1/4 mile" or anything like that either, just the flashing lights LOL.  Also...dirt roads Ting into the freeway, with no exit ramp, just a stop sign and entering the freeway, random stops in the middle of the freeway with traffic lights where other roads cross, etc.  How about roads like that having to cross to the other 2 lanes to go the other direction, with a "do not enter" sign on one side? 
And of course the turn-arounds every 1000 feet or so to get to places on the other side.  North Pole, AK, a suburb of Fairbanks, is like that.  It's pretty obvious this used to be 2-lane, then the traffic volume grew so DOT decided "Let's build a freeway!" but it's a crazy mess, trying to put a freeway in where there's driveways accessing off of it most of its length! The only thing missing (Thankfully!) is those stupid roundabouts!    And traffic is ridiculous in every major city in Alaska IMO.  AND this area I'm describing desparately needs to be repaved, just like some of the roads you showed me in RI! I'm glad I'm getting to know the road layout of the area before I move there, though! It'll be quite the experience, learning stop and go is one thing but I might be still "learning" on roads like what I'm describing, in a deuce and a half no less.  It'll be interesting. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 15, 2015, 11:04:48 PM
Technically that Richardson Highway is not a freeway because freeways are controlled-access highways, meaning there are no at-grade intersections, traffic signals, (or railroad tracks crossing directly on the road). Like with squares and rectangles, all freeways are highways but not all highways are freeways. Still interesting and quite frankly comical looking at this highway on streetview though! US Route 1 is like that in southern RI between I-95 and North Kingstown, RI, with random U-Turn areas and roads that stem off the highway.

 BTW, check out this weird interchange where they expected to extend the freeway but never did.  (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5044634,-71.3139418,1736m/data=!3m1!1e3) It's lit mostly by 400W mercs too if you check out the streetview.   And for some reason there's no ramp to left here onto Rte 6 from Rte 10 coming up from the bottom of your screen (going from Rte 10 North to Rte 6 West).  (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8128451,-71.4396232,1007m/data=!3m1!1e3)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 15, 2015, 11:51:14 PM
Oh so you went and looked it up? Any chance you could link to what you saw? (I'm just curious if we saw the exact same things). Glad to hear you got a good laugh out of it too.  Can you imagine driving on that every day? Or at least twice weekly? (Leaving Fairbanks on Friday afternoon, returning Monday morning).  But there are also lots of entry/exit ramps too.

I honestly don't get what's weird with the one you linked.  What am I missing?

Also did you see the freeways in Fairbanks proper have the -EXPY suffix, just like you have "trail" for roads? (Mitchell Expressway, etc). 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 16, 2015, 03:00:49 PM
I saw the railroad tracks.

Well did you actually take a look at it or just look at what I linked?  Exhibit A,  (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.4999227,-71.3175613,3a,31.4y,189.53h,84.27t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sp6MuQeXpmpefjdcTElcauQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)  B,  (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5034545,-71.3172715,3a,21.1y,195.74h,88.85t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLTP5qG0EUIzmN7QiuyrN2g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)  C,  (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5052329,-71.3164869,3a,46y,25.91h,83.96t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sA4YH9uGfG4UV2Cb8HSiBrg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)  D,  (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5077386,-71.3150604,3a,46.8y,1.58h,88.73t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sDBk4KLSB-luZOnX-TRo1Ew!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)  E,  (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5078884,-71.3121663,3a,52.1y,295.87h,81.8t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s26JsLOJrfMm8x9FJHS5-Ig!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)  and F.  (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5037538,-71.3169161,3a,20.8y,17.95h,85.05t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1svOk32WgImAldzipr4XMr3g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) It's just one big giant unfinished interchange with all these dead-ends and modifications.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 16, 2015, 09:11:01 PM
Geez, you missed all the ridiculous exits! 

I looked at the satellite Google Earth view but there's so much going on I honestly got confused LOL.

But wow, that is even more laughable than the Richardson Highway! But parts of that seem like a perfectly normal, like this: http://www.instantstreetview.com/@64.773663,-147.46144,112.42h,-18.78p,0.67z

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 16, 2015, 09:13:29 PM
Oh and I had an interesting accident with a new-in-sleeve, only-lit-once-ever Sylvania F30T12/CW/RS.  It fell off a shelf I removed from a wall without remembering it was there, hit the floor, and didn't break anything except the cathode! So now it's useless on anything but IS LOL.  Time for the electronic T8 or magnetic F96 slimline lamp trasher ballast I guess.

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 16, 2015, 10:26:07 PM
Nope I followed the whole thing from I-4 to the Eielson Air force Base, where it essentially becomes a two-lane double-yellow road. Looks like they kinda started converting it into freeway but either had limited funding or just decided to not go all the way lol. Yeah that whole area is a mess, but 3/4 of it is 400W MV so it's awesome at the same time. I love wacky unfinished interchanges like that.

Wow! Interesting that it survived! I had a warm white Philips F15T12 that was new-in-sleeve and only lit a couple of times and it hit the concrete floor (in sleeve) from about 6ft up and one end cap went flying 20ft out of the laundry room and into the basement. The tube itself just crumbled apart and most of it stayed inside the sleeve.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 16, 2015, 10:47:46 PM
Which one is I-4? Is that still in Fairbanks proper?

Wow, your Internet must let you streetview way faster than mine!

Also, the further out you get from Fairbanks/North Pole, the less traffic there is. 

And yours is 3/4 MV, not Richardson, right? I wish Richardson was! That'd be awesome driving under that at night!

Alaska has funding issues now, but in the 70s and 80s had more money than it knew what to do with, from oil revenue.  Google "Alaska Permanent Fund Dividend" sometime...

So then you saw the weird turnarounds/exits in North Pole I assume? (Going south but having to get to a driveway on the other side).

Also notice the oddly low 55MPH speed limit there?

Yeah I remember that story, calling poison control over a broken F15T12.  Think that's bad? Try having an 8 foot slimline fixture (with full mercury, non-eco lamps) come crashing down on you in the middle of the night laying in bed.  Picking up all that glass was a PITA.  I ended up even taking out the carpet in that room! (It was AstroTurf anyway LOL).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 17, 2015, 06:50:30 AM
Google is really fast but that "instant streetview" site is pretty slow and has lower resolution graphics.  But yeah, I can basically cruise along on streetview, only having to refresh the page after 20 minutes of continuously clicking lol.

Yes, Rte 138 interchange is 3/4 MV. Yep I saw the U-Turn exits and the rotary exit in North Pole (I assume it was North Pole since there were candy cane lights lol).

Yeah 55MPH is likely the top speed that can be assigned because there are driveways and roads without ramps. The speed limits for highways and freeways is based on the tightness and frequency of curves, amount of traffic flow, closeness of interchanges, and other factors too, like level crossings on Richardson. In RI, part of I-95 is only 45 MPH because of a series of S-curves.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 17, 2015, 09:08:54 PM
Oh, interesting! I didn't know that!
So you can basically go along at car speed?
Yeah, I figured as much. 
LOL at the candy cane lights...can you by any chance link to where you saw those?
In fact, the University of Alaska Fairbanks course catalog lists their North Pole classes with a little icon of a present LOL.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on November 18, 2015, 12:29:07 AM
Wow you guys have been busy posting since I last checked in!
---


Quote from: GEsoftwhite100watts
Sounds like on the one they had the legs screwed up or no neutral, so those two circuits were in series.  IDK about the other one with lights glowing dimly even if the breaker is off though. 

That's hilarious!  I wonder if everyone instantly knew his house was to blame?
Probably something like that...or not having things grounded right was giving some weird backfeeding issues.

I think anyone close knew (I don't remember full details as it was years ago when I saw that post)
I'm sure the got crap every time there was a power outage after that though LOL


Quote from: Mike
Ahh good to know about the eBay thing. Now, I assume eBay automatically takes the fees out upfront before the money you earn is deposited into your bank account, right? Or do they send a bill through the mail?
They collect the fees & then auto-bill your credit card or PayPal account at the end of the month.
Money you earn is deposited into your PayPal account when the item sells (you can transfer funds from PayPal to a bank account manually)


Quote from: GEsoftwhite100watts
I know of a lot of old houses here in town that have the old asbestos floor tile. 
Its a big problem in houses & buildings here as well - asbestos insulation in the attic,  floor tile, etc (actually the place I work has asbestos floor tile, I know insulation has been found in other parts of the building too)
I personally would never buy a house with asbestos in it (I really wouldn't be worried about lead paint though)


Quote from: Mike
Eh not with wood paneling. Even if the wood paneling didn't look life-drained, WW has a way of making wood stuff look nice, like how clear MV makes vegetation look nice and vibrant. ;D
In rooms with wood...be it paneling or cabinets or whatever....I would only use WW/3000k (or lower, maybe 3500k max) fluorescent... or incandescent!
{I have one room that has paneling with lit with F40T17/CW & it looks bland/dull...but I've always considered those "fixtures" as a temporary thing. That room might get some minor remodeling next year anyway (which would include new lighting)


Quote from: GEsoftwhite100watts
Oh and we're getting one little baby step closer with the Deuce!  He wants to get it running soon, so it's drivable
Cool.


Quote from: Mike
I would have a hard time parting with any of my collection (...)
For me it would depend on the item...
Some things I deff wouldn't get rid of :)
Some I would sell (actually I have sold off plenty of 'nothing special' xmas lightsets)
I dread the thought of moving... all my crap would be a major pain in the ass LOL
I'll never have to worry about something like a "future spouse might not appreciate a bedroom fluorescent or streetlight" LOL as I pretty much plan to be single forever.


Quote from: GEsoftwhite100watts
This place appears to have those ceramic pullchain-type lights in every room the listing has pictures of.  I'd almost be tempted to put fluorescents in their place! At least in my bedroom.  I'm a little leery on linear fluorescents in living spaces though at the same time after having an 8 foot slimline come crashing down on me laying in my bed one right.  Cleaning up that toxic mess kinda dampened my enthusiasm for linear fluorescents LOL.  But this place appears to have OSB or plywood for wall covering, not drywall.   
I hate those pullchain lights :lol:
Just gotta make sure the lights are well mounted! (and if you worry, get those shat-r-shield lamps!)
OSB instead of drywall :o I don't think that would even be allowed here! .. If it were legal/safe I'm not sure what I'd do .. probably change do drywall eventually in the main living spaces (one of the few jobs I'd pay someone to do...drywall is a dusty messy bitch to do)


Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 18, 2015, 11:01:40 AM
Yeah, well, both this house and that one are outside of areas with enforceable building codes LOL.

And I did some great AM skywave DXing early this morning...winter is great for that with the short days!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 19, 2015, 07:10:05 PM
The candy cane lights are  here.  (https://www.google.com/maps/@64.7572911,-147.352256,3a,37.3y,15.16h,88.48t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sH-n77nVlfQazkdqAjAuDFg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1?hl=en)

BTW, I rescued six vintage F40T12s from the dumpster! Three Westinghouse inside etches and three outside etch lightning bolt etch Sylvanias. See LG. 8)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 19, 2015, 09:58:42 PM
Sweet! I know the feeling of trash finds.  If I'd had time I would've taken all the lamps (Literally hundreds, close to a thousand probably) I saw at the dump in Sitka once.  Would've tested them all then brought back the dead ones.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on November 20, 2015, 12:23:57 AM
@GEsoftwhite100watts:
I remember years ago(could easily be a couple decades now)...there was a news segment on one county here in CO that had a section that had no zoneing/building-codes/etc (the only remaining with such in CO) - so basically you could build whatever you wanted whether it was safe or "to code" didn't matter(since there was nothing to enforce)  Apparently people were building some real crap LOL
Who knows, if you were way out in the middle of nowhere, or up deep in the mountains where no-one would see...you might still be able to get away with adding/changing a house without getting a permit here (as long as you didn't sell there'd likely be no issues)

Those short days would be killer. I don't think I could take it! LOL

@Mike:
Good saves if they still work.
I'll have to go check those out

@GEsoftwhite100watts:
Yep I know... you see a light in the trash & always want to 'save' .lol.
I've saved a couple 4' striplights & a few sets of xmas lights myself.


------------
And ug...
 (just a rant to noone in particular)
If you list multiple items on eBay/spend a fair bit of time on the thing...
It gets slower...and slloower...and slllooooower...and......
to the point of making your computer/browser basically un-useable.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 20, 2015, 11:41:14 AM
We still have a lot of places like that in Alaska, though if you want to be able to insure your house certain things have to meet certain criteria.  Though it's surprising what does get insured and what banks do loan on! I've seen some interesting "violations".  Not necessarily bad or unsafe, but just plain unusual.  There's an entire architectural style here I personally refer to as "Pot-smoking hippie homestead house", of which mine is one of the aforementioned style. 

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 20, 2015, 08:28:35 PM
I ended up with two really old Westinghouse F20/Ws (pre-60s) lamps from one fixture, two Philips alto F20T12/Ds from another fixture, four Alto F20/CWPs from two fixtures, and one SPEC 35 non-alto Philips from the fifth fixture (other lamp in 5th fixture was a Philips Alto K&B so I left it, since it's the same color temp as the Sylvania F20/WWs I installed and you can't tell the difference). since there was 5 fixtures and one lamp was already WW, I ended up taking three of the 12 Sylvanias back home with me.

I replaced four starters. One totally dead, one would start after like 10 minutes, and the other two just struck slow. I just tossed them though since they were Spec No 6. Now all the lamps are /WW and all are NOS 1986 Sylvanias (except that one alto) and all start in a reasonable amount of time. Plus the basement is much brighter. Probably a combination of using /WW lamps and the lamps being new. My friend likes the /WW tubes since the wood paneling looked yucky under the CWP and D light and now all the fixtures are uniform in color and brightness (though I wish I had enough starters to give all the lights new starters but at least they all start in under 10 seconds.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 20, 2015, 10:32:42 PM
Neat! If that place was mine I'd stick all daylight or /950 in there and new starters, but /WW works just fine too! It must be neat watching those fire up sometimes, but must be hell on the eyes at 2AM LOL.  I like preheat, but I actually don't intentionally go for "blink-happieness" like many lighting enthusiasts do, intentionally trying to find lamp/ballast/starter combos that blink the most.  (Or ramp up the slowest, for rapid start).  I like my lights to come on right away most of the time LOL.

If you ever want to get rid of the Altos, I may be interested.  Particularly the /Ds.  But if not, you now have a lot of cheap, modern tester tubes!

As for those Westy whites...WOW! I assumed the whole place was 70s blackender cool white Westies for whatever reason, but I guess not!  The Westies are likely original to his house.  Did that fixture not get used much? I can imagine the lamps in that one lasting in that case, and the others finally burning out after 50-60 years, and getting replaced with modern Altos.  (Or maybe multiple times over; what were the starters? That would be a clue!).

Unlike many lighting enthusiasts, I also really like modern white plastic starters since you can watch them fire off.  Or those green plastic Levitons...I want some of those. 

I also like the electronic starters from what I see of them; I've never seen them in person but like I said I'd rather longer lamp life, and less blinking and thus better lamp life LOL. 

I MAY someday get a TON of preheat and LPF trigger start F20 fixtures from someone's house.  Mostly Lampi preheat units, and some 70s? Lithonia 1X and 2X strips.  They suck though in their current home, they're dim, don't always start (Likely not grounded; I've told you how the wiring standard is here LOL), have many spent, rectifying (or totally dead for that matter!) lamps, or ridiculously slow starters in the preheat units, some of which take the ten minutes to even attempt to strike LOL.  Really annoying in windowless basement hallways and bedrooms and bathrooms! Or great for having people jump out and scare you as you fumble around in the dark flipping light switches in someone else's unfamiliar house for not-really-in-working-order preheat fluorescent lights with slow starters and bad lamps trying to find the bathroom during a horror movie night (Actually happened to me there). They're supposed to get replaced with modern Lithonia electronic T5 units...their loss, my gain! I bet I can make them work, with a bunch of new starters and some lamps.  (My lamps and starters would probably be GE HN or Leviton, lamps would probably be Ecolux Chroma 50 or daylight). 

Current lamps there are some 1985 (I know for a fact, I already have two from that house) GE F20T12/CWs (outside-etch GENERAL (GE) ELECTRIC; they're in my gallery on LG), some post-1992-but-before-2003-HG-symbol, black-meatball-etch GE F20T12/CWs, some August 1997 (I know, here again I have one already from that house) Philips pre-Alto F20T12/WWs, and some Alto versions of same. 

I would probably scrap a lot of the crappy Lampi units for their guts, and keep the actual striplights. Nice 1970s-80s good-quality stuff LOL.  Maybe preheat conversions for those? I like 2-lamp T12 strips. 

What I really want to find though is a boring, run-of-the-mill Lithonia or Metalux 2XF40 strip from the same era.  Those would have to be one of my favorite fixtures, when I hear "fluorescent light" that's what I immediately picture LOL.  What first comes to mind when you hear "fluorescent light"?

Oh, and I'm going to be doing a few more wiring projects at my house, reworking some lighting here.  I'll try to take pictures. 

Oh and a few days ago I talked to the guy who owns the place with the 1950s-looking preheaters, but forgot to mention them.  I will, though, next time we talk.  I hope to be able to "rescue" them, LOL.  I wonder what they really are? It will be interesting to see.  I think I need a lot of F30T8 lamps now!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on November 21, 2015, 12:17:09 AM
Quote from: GEsoftwhite100watts
We still have a lot of places like that in Alaska, though if you want to be able to insure your house certain things have to meet certain criteria.  Though it's surprising what does get insured and what banks do loan on! I've seen some interesting "violations".  Not necessarily bad or unsafe, but just plain unusual.  There's an entire architectural style here I personally refer to as "Pot-smoking hippie homestead house",
I guess as long as its done safe (and structurally sound) I really don't see much of a problem.
LOL.LOL at "Pot-smoking hippie homestead house" ... that if anything sounds like something you might find here considering the pot laws ;D


Quote from: Mike
I ended up with two really old Westinghouse F20/Ws (pre-60s) lamps from one fixture, two Philips alto F20T12/Ds <...> 
Nice find on the old Westinghouse's.
Alto F20/D's seem to be decent lamps (same for the F40 version)

Quote from: GEsoftwhite100watts

I also like the electronic starters from what I see of them; I've never seen them in person but like I said I'd rather longer lamp life, and less blinking and thus better lamp life LOL.
<...>
I MAY someday get a TON of preheat and LPF trigger start F20 fixtures from someone's house.  Mostly Lampi preheat units,
I got some of the 'Pulsestarters' from the UK...and can sat they're pretty nice, seem to be good at starting lamps that are a bit finicky, and with a EOL lamp you'll get an initial flash, then it just stays off - no constant flashing or rist of frying the ballast. 

I always liked Lampi fixtures. they had some unique/nice stuff.
Real shame the company went out of business


-------
Looks like Lowes will have a Utilitech 9w (60w equiv) WW LED Bulb for $.99 on Black Friday ... for that price I might have to get one and try it out :)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 21, 2015, 08:31:41 AM
LOL The Alto /Ds did not look good down there, nor did the CWPs, so I don't think /950 would either, plus it would be really dim. That basement is kinda dimly lit anyway in my opinion. Normally I find oldschool /WW yucky and pink, but in this instance it actually looks REALLY nice. I think even if it were my house I'd use the /WWs. The original lamps were apparently all /Ws, so I would try 3500K in all of them too but since I have so many /WWs I'd probably stick with them.

I might use a couple of the Philips Alto CWP to fix relatives' lights but otherwise I'll keep the rest, and maybe paint the ends black. The fixtures are on two switches, one for one half of the room and one for the other half. The lamps are pretty well-used. Ironically, this was the fixture with the clear replacement glass instead of the drop dish frosted glass, so I assumed the lamps were replaced in the 70s or something and the previous owner broke the glass or something. I guess the glass could've been broken at another time (like kids rough-housing or something). All the other fixtures had Philips altos. The CWPs are from 2004 and the /Ds from 2014. The SPEC 35 also from 2004 IIRC. The K&B I left installed is from 2012 I think. Sebastian said his dad relamped most of the fixtures to get more light down there during the remodel. The two Daylights are practically new since the starters were so bad lol. The starters were really old Spec No 6, so they're all original. Only one fixture had a replacement starter and it was one his dad recently put in within a year ago (plastic GE one, though it appears NOS).

I have pics of the whole basement set-up so I'll post them.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 21, 2015, 08:13:24 PM
Yeah, I've seen neat stuff...for example I know of a house that's a "log cabin" but has outward-tipping walls, so the upstairs is actually bigger than downstairs!  And my own house was built at literally ten different times!

Yeah, I hate flashing EOL preheat fluorescents!

Yeah, but /950 is high-CRI.  All the 70ish CRI 4100K lamps look OK with wood IMO...my school, which dates to the 70s-80s and thus has lots of wood paneling, has a lot of Sylvania F40CWPs and GE-made store-brand SP41s and the wood looks fine, but under F40CWs or F34CWs it looks ugly.  F40CWX makes colors really "pop" but I don't like the pinkish hue. /950 looks great with wood IMO, it looks like it should at 90 CRI. 

Now, just imagine that basement lit with VitaLite PowerTwist lamps!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 21, 2015, 08:41:50 PM
/950 is high CRI, but it still has a bluer tinge so everything will look bluer. A 100 CRI 5000K lamp would have the same effect. /950 would be way too dim too. It was one of the first instances I've seen halophosphate /WW and liked it lol. My friend likes it too, which is great. It doesn't look vomit pink at all oddly enough. It's KINDA pink, but the area lit up isn't pinkish and the wood looks vibrant under it. The wood paneling is actual wood veneers too, not that pressed cardboard crap used in the 70s-onward.

Yeah CWX is too purple for my liking. And too dim. I want LUMENS!!! lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 21, 2015, 09:11:30 PM
Same here, lumens over CRI! And do you by any chance know a name for this paneling we're talking about? I wish I knew what it was called.

I should take some pictures of the interior of my school for you, you'd love it LOL.  Wood paneling and F40/RS everywhere you look, with at least 50% 40 watt lamps now!  (Ever notice the new trend of not using energy saver lamps in commercial places now? IDK why but I like seeing it!)

And all the lamps are mixed up, giving it the small-business (Well, small school district with no money for T8 retrofits) feel. I personally love it.  People always complain about the buzzing lights...all those 70s-80s Advance and Universal ballasts! 

I've done a lot of relamping there myself over the years too.  And gotten many F40 lamps from there.  And I even have two fixtures from there, those Metalux/Gibson 1X4 flush-mount troffers. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 21, 2015, 09:28:12 PM
As far as I know, it was just simply referred to as paneling. It's odd to think of a school having wood paneling. The schools in my area are all steel-and-concrete/cinder block construction, except for my elementary school, which was cinderblock but featured drywall inside the rooms. Only the hallways and gymnasium had exposed cinderblock.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on November 21, 2015, 09:36:16 PM
To me for the most part brightness is more important than CRI (in particular for any lights used on aquariums or plants). In a office-type-room (or similar workroom) Then I might want a higher CRI lamp.

The best 5000k lamp I ever had was a Philips F40T12 Ultralume ... unlike most 5000k lamps, it was bright! (no idea what the CRI was, but I would love to find more of those)
Philips F32T8/850 are decent brightness too (the newer 850 plus aren't as nice)

-----------
There's a room in my basement that has paneling (real wood (plywood) not that particle/paper stuff)
I actually set the lights up to have 2 choices of color...WW and Daylight. The wood looks nice under WW, but dull under Daylight...the warm/cool choice is neat to have :)  the room basically isn't used though.


-----------
@GEsoftwhite100watts:
That basement lit with vitalites would be dim. Seeing Mike's pic's on LG, looks like overall it would be too dim for me no matter what lamps...I'd probably do something those into vintage stuff wouldn't like: upgrade them to F24T5-HO (or at minimum F17T8 wired for overdrive) LOL


-----------
I also got some F28T5 ballasts, and some of them startup sorta like a preheat would - a couple blinks and then it lights (atleast that's how they work with the F32T8's I used for testing)
There's a pic of one on LG
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 21, 2015, 10:09:35 PM
Yeah, I saw those pics.  I personally think VitaLite PowerTwist is way brighter than C50 but I could be wrong.  How is the current Philips "C50 Supreme" in terms of brightness?

I personally think F40SP41 is one of the best 4100K lamps ever made (Shame it's discontinued), and F40WW for 3000K, even if it's too pinkish/greenish it's BRIGHT!  And I personally hope C50 continues to be made, I love that color.

What's regular halophosphate daylight like compared to deluxe halophosphate daylight deluxe? I've never seen it lit up in person.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on November 22, 2015, 12:06:48 AM
Yep, a PowerTwist is brighter than C50, but still seems kinda dim
I don't have a 'C50 Supreme' (yet) to compare .. it would be nice if they upped the brightness
SP41 is nice!
The sorta pink-ish color of some F40WW was fine by me :) , but the best 3000k lamp was the F40T12 Ultralume (just like the 5000k version... really nice color and brightness. shoulda never been discontinued LOL)

The 'Daylights' I have in use are actually (modern) daylight deluxe (I'm assuming triphospher?), but somewhere I've got atleast one of the old plain(halophosphate?) daylight (probably have a DX too)...
Don't think I've ever compared them side-by-side, but the modern 'deluxe' seems like it's more blue than a standard old daylight.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 22, 2015, 10:57:45 AM
I have several of those GE EcoLux F40 C 50 lamps. They're 2900 lumens, which is pretty decent! And the color is awesome too. I love them.

Yeah the basement is sorta dim, but much better than it was. If it was my house, I'd leave the fixtures original but place them all on one side of the basement (closer together thus brighter) and would just install different fixture (probably 4ft) on the other side.  The problem is, the ceiling tiles are asbestos (when I opened the lights to relamp, I saw the cut edges of the tiles around the fixtures have that familiar "fluffy" yellow look to them. Now my friend is paranoid about getting lung cancer but I told him as long as you never rip the tiles out and create a lot of dust you'll be fine. His dad originally wanted to rip out the ceiling (lighting included) but they never ended up doing that and instead just repainted the faded/stained tiles with white paint. I assume that's because he dad noticed they were asbestos tiles.

I told Sebastian (my friend) that they could install a drop ceiling grid about 6" below the existing ceiling so that way the added pipes are concealed once again and they can redesign the lighting layout. The old fixtures could be removed (and saved for yours truly lol) which would reveal wiring access for the new fixtures, which would probably be 2X4 or 2X2 troffers. However, the ceiling is already quite low (about 6.5ft) so it would make it a little low. I'm only 5ft 4.5in so it would still be an acceptable height for me but his dad's pretty tall (Sebastian is only a couple inches taller than me).

Yeah, modern daylight tubes (especially triphosphor) are bluer than oldschool /D. The original plain-vanilla daylight tubes are a nice soft-on-the-eyes blue with a hint of green. I love my daylight HO tubes. I think I've finally realized how color temperatures appeal to me. I think for me personally, I prefer warmer color temperatures for lower light levels and cooler color temperatures for more intense lighting.

My friend said that he personally hates the fixtures in his basement, especially before the relamp since he said the cooler tubes made the fixtures look like something that would have lit a 50s insane asylum lol. I kinda see where he was coming from that. Those fixtures have a touch of creepy to them. They're decorative, but almost seem sorta Gothic. After the relamp I commented and said now it looks like the office of an insane asylum since the light is warmer and brighter lol. It looked like the Ringling Brothers circus down there with all the different colored lights lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 22, 2015, 05:51:40 PM
That's what I feel like I hear too, the "real" daylight is much more soft and pale.  Daylight Deluxe is deluxe halophosphate from what I understand actually...triphosphor would be now-discontinued SP65 (Or SPX65, if such a thing exists.  Does it?)

I want to find a case or two of NOS GE F40SP65 and F96T12/SP65.  They used to be sorta common around here, many commercial buildings had slimline 8 footers lit with 6500K lamps, believe it or not! Same for 4' strips.  Gas stations, smaller stores in strip malls, you name it! It was great!! Case in point, there was/is a True Value hardware store lit like that.  But last I was there some of the SP65s were dying off and being replaced by GE 60w HL41s which by comparison had an ugly peachy hue. But it was awesome shopping under those humming 8 footers with 75 watt 6500K daylight lamps!  A nice break from dim, flickery 60w cool white energy savers or dim, "flickery" daylight deluxe or /950.

So in summary, IMO GE SP65 was the best F40T12/F96T12 slimline daylight lamp in terms of color and brightness.  

For some places, I like the greenish-but-bright light of old-school, discontinued-sine-1994 F40CWs!  Never actually seen a 75w F96T12/CW in person though, they've all long since been replaced by 60w energy savers or C50 or daylight deluxe or SP65.

I can't speak for GE HL65 though, haven't seen it in use.  That being said, it's a 60w energy saver slimline only as far as I know, and we all know how those are...I was actually kinda glad when my pair of crappy 60w cool whites broke...but not happy about cleaning up all the glass in a BEDROOM! I even ended up pulling out the carpet, it was such a mess.  

I actually do need some F96T12 slimline lamps if I put my 5 8ft striplights in use.  If I was desperate I'd go to True Value and get some self-branded GE HL41 60w energy savers, but I'd prefer some 75w /DX Altos or Sylvania /DX or Philips /C50 or Sylvania /DSGN50.

Mike, if you think that's bad, you would have died laughing in the Alaska Commercial Co. supermarket in Klawock, AK.  3000K and 6500K, randomly mixed together.  Some parts of the store were totally 6500K, others totally 3000K, others a mix of both.  Like they started relamping with 6500K then ran low and just spot-relamped, or vice-versa.  I laugh whenever I go in there!

The parts lit with all daylight were literally cool though, the effect was very pleasant.

LOL at the thought of a 50s insane asylum...especially if half the lamps/starters are bad and cooler-color lamps are the only ones that work!

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 22, 2015, 08:23:54 PM
Yes, /DX is halophosphate. /DX is OK. I think its sorta blue, but not as bad as triphosphor ones. Not sure if SPX65 exists, but the current daylight F32T8s are /SPP65. Not sure of the CRI of it (stupid new GE packaging lol) but they're 2900 lumens.

Yesh mixing color temperatures does look kinda cool, to see all the colors in one place, but it's also tacky on the other hand. My store uses /835 tubes, GE, Sylvania, and I guess Philips (I say "I guess" because I've never seen Philips lamps but I've seen an open case of them in the back so they're either all in fixtures with diffusers or maybe the lamps in there are not really Philips and it's for dead lamps? I dunno. I didn't actually look in the case. Regardless, it might just be that some tubes are older than others, but the Sylvania ones in general are pinker than the GE 3500K tubes.

All the lamps in his basement actually worked and all the starters would actually start the lamps except for two (both in the same fixture) where one was dead as a door-nail and the other would possibly light the tube after countless attempts over several minutes. But I ended up replacing four starters and all the lamps. I tossed the four starters I removed though. I would have replaced more starters but I didn't want to "waste" my own starters since I don't have a ton of them. (I'm a starter hoarder lol).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 22, 2015, 08:35:35 PM
So over the weekend I've been doing a few lighting projects around the house...
-I installed a light over my wood-burning stove, a ceramic pullchain unit, in place of a preheat plastic LOA F15T8 undercabinet light I had to plug in and unplug since the slide switch wasn't in an easily reachable place.  There was an existing box nearby from a previous, unfinished remodeling project I tapped into.  Turned out that wire was dead LOL.  I remembered it being "hot" five years ago when it had an outlet still hooked up to that end, so I tore apart the outlet upstream from it.  Oh and did I mention it turns out my house DOES have #14 wire? I never knew it did until yesterday, having sworn up and down for years my house is all #12 and #10 LOL.  Anyway, as it turns out, the hot wire had come loose from the "backstabbed" outlet.  I hate it when they do that.  Whoever wired my house backstabbed all the outlets AND used exactly as much wire as needed, not a centimeter more! So it's a PITA to get enough wire to PROPERLY wire outlets via their screws.  

While in there, I replaced that receptacle anyway.  I used a NOS Eagle (But looks like the modern Cooper ones; they bought out Eagle) brown receptacle and faceplate.  I have a ton of them from my honorary grandfather.  I even gave it a brown faceplate.  Many devices in my house don't match their faceplates, but I honestly don't care LOL, my house has worse "mismatchings" than that.  

I put the plastic LOA preheat F15T8 undercabinet light in a more proper place, actually lighting THE KITCHEN COUNTER!  I took down a rusty metal one I had mounted on the kitchen ceiling near the sink since it thus isn't needed there anymore and my dad has complained about ever since it went up 2-1/2 years ago now.  I might also install it over the counter at the other end, but not tonight.  I'd like to repaint it, but not now LOL.  It'll be semi hidden from view anyway.  And it has an actual in-line switch, unlike the LOA, which has an annoying, hard-to-access slide switch.  I might put an inline switch in, or do what I also once saw done to one of the very same LOA plastic undercabinet lights elsewhere, (In fact a neighbor's house where this one came from) and add a pullchain.  

Now I want some lamps other than ugly halophosphate cool white Asian no-namers, since they make food look ugly and just don't jive with the 6500K CFLs in there (Or, once I fix them, the 3500K F32T8s).  I'm thinking daylight or /950 of course, being me.  It'll still make food look SO much better at 90CRI.

And I stuck up a half-working Lithonia shoplight with a half-dead "LOA Guts in an F-Can" ballast in the storage loft, with an early '90s ACE F40CW.  

Except, I LIKE the "blue" feel.  I was just talking to someone today (about LEDs, no less!) and commented my house is one of the ones where the windows all light up blue at night from 5000K-6500K instead of yellow from incandescent or 2700K CFLs from LOL.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 22, 2015, 11:38:54 PM
I decided the yellow hue of the Indonesian LOA F15T8/CW wasn't jiving with the 6500K CFLs and food on the counter, so I stuck in a Thorn "Tropical Daylight" lamp, made in Great Britain.  It's dimmer and still kinda "dull" (Remember the discussion on LG about daylight lamps?) so I plan to buy a /950 since here color rendering is more important than brightness.  Besides, it's a pretty rare lamp here in the States!  I took it out of use 2 years ago to preserve it for just that reason, and plan to again. 
I might also get a true F15T8/D though, just to compare it to, since I wonder how their daylight compares to ours, and the name seems like a specialty color.  A F15T8/D should be cheap compared to a /950 anyway. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 23, 2015, 04:29:33 PM
It doesn't surprise me that your house has 14 AWG wire. Afterall, 14 AWG is standard and is cheaper than 12 AWG and easier to work with, and it seems like the cheap-n-easy way out seems to be a trend in your area rather than going the extra mile, being that there's no enforced codes in your area. Sounds like a pullchain light would be a more suitable fixture over the wood-burning stove. I'm surprised the plastic POS light didn't suffer heat damage. The cabins we stay in typically have (at least I think they do) wood-burning "stoves". Not for cooking (though you could certainly fry an egg in a skillet or reheat something) but for cabin heating. And they get pretty darn hot! I suppose the heat wouldn't be so severe a few feet up in the air though, or else you'd have bigger issues to worry about (namely the ceiling above catching fire lol).

Ugh I dislike the stab-in connectors. Some are decent though. Some I've seen require the side screws to be tightened to grip the wires when entered from behind, which I like since it's more secure. The ones I don't like are the ones that simply have the wires pierced into the back and are held in by who the heck knows what. A little tab/spring?

Good taste. I prefer brown too, though I actually would have probably used almond/ivory in that case since I have so many of them after clearing out that shed with my grandpa. So far no luck selling any of that stuff. :( Right now I have the sealed cases of 12 medium base HPS lamps per case (150W and 100W) on ebay, originally priced at $50 but they didn't sell so I dropped the price to $30 in hopes they'd get some bites. So far nothing. $30 is a steal IMO. I'll give it away for free if I have to; I just want the stuff gone! Some profit would be nice though, to compensate for the time I've spent sprucing everything up to make it presentable for sale and testing certain stuff.

I'd love to install undercabinet lighting at my house but I don't have enough matching undercabinet lights so it wouldn't match. Plus my parents wouldn't allow it lol. My mom said she would actually like to "do something" with the cabinets to make them come to life and thinks either undercabinet lighting or indirect lighting above the cabinets (since we have tall vaulted ceilings so there's dead space above the cabinets) but money is a concern for her and my dad doesn't want holes being drilled through the cabinets lol. Not sure what color temperature I'd use for indirect or undercabinet lighting. Most likely warm white for the "above-cabinet" (if you will) lighting but either that or cool white for the undercabinet lighting. Not daylight though. It just wouldn't work in my kitchen. Plus I'd have the buy lamps. Though I have a F8T5/D. IDK. It's not something that's going to happen so I won't worry about it lol. I actually suggested LED rope light for the above cabinet lighting and even possibly for the undercabinet lighting. It's low-profile, low energy, and truly linear (the whole thing lights up, whereas fluorescents would be staggered and not as uniform). Plus it can be cut into custom lengths and whatnot. And I'd love to experiment with rope lighting. I personally think I have the perfect kitchen for it! I'll have to link pictures here.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 23, 2015, 04:55:46 PM
 Here  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/88219189@N04/22862220157/in/dateposted/)  are  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/88219189@N04/22629254943/in/dateposted/)  pics  (https://www.flickr.com/photos/88219189@N04/22629254313/in/dateposted/) of my kitchen cabinets.

There are two mini cabinets over the microwave. There's an outlet for the microwave mounted inside that cabinet on the right side. It's a duplex (on its own circuit) but obviously the microwave is the only thing plugged into it. I think that second receptacle would be the perfect tap for any "above-cabinet" lighting. A wire would have to run to a switch (likely mounted underneath the full-sized single-door cabinet between the microwave and fridge) and then back up to the top, where the run would start at the wall near the fridge and ropelight would run from there to the window. Then a white lamp cord wire would run along the top of the window frame (curtains would conceal it) to the other smaller cabinet bank.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 23, 2015, 08:52:43 PM
Yeah, I know I'm weird for liking such color color temps!  I'll post pics of mine later.
Actually, it did fine, other than being a little dusty.  And it's about 4 feet away from it!
That kitchen has an interesting design, it looks spacious! 
I've seen 12v DC LED tape light used as undercabinet lighting before in a neighbor's house, it turned out great until the cheap Chinese LEDs color shifted into a hue I call "Lighted Apple Juice" (Ew!) Originally they were REALLY blueish-purplish, more so than even 6500K daylight. 

It was the same house the LOA plastic undercabinet fixture came from BTW.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on November 24, 2015, 12:37:05 AM
Quote from: Mike
Yeah the basement is sorta dim, but much better than it was. If it was my house, I'd leave the fixtures original but place them all on one side of the basement (closer together thus brighter) and would just install different fixture (probably 4ft) on the other side.  The problem is, the ceiling tiles are asbestos
<...>
I told Sebastian (my friend) that they could install a drop ceiling grid about 6" below the existing ceiling so that way the added pipes are concealed once again and they can redesign the lighting layout. The old fixtures could be removed (and saved for yours truly lol) which would reveal wiring access for the new fixtures, which would probably be 2X4 or 2X2 troffers. However, the ceiling is already quite low (about 6.5ft) so it would make it a little low. I'm only 5ft 4.5in so it would still be an acceptable height for me but his dad's pretty tall (Sebastian is only a couple inches taller than me).
eeeek LOL .. If it were me I'd have that ripped out (I know having asbestos removal ain't cheap, but I'd find a way.)

Then I'd  move those pipes that are below the ceiling up inside. At that point since it'd be basically (partially) gutting the room  I'd  install all new lighting - most likely 4-footers (which I'd put recessed up between the floor joists)...and install drywall on the existing floor joists to make it as high as possible (technically - "have installed" since drywall is a dusty messy bitch LOL but I'd do everything else myself. It would be one hell of a big job to take on, but I'd want the asbestos gone!


Quote from: GEsoftwhite100watts
Or SPX65, if such a thing exists.  Does it?
<...>
in summary, IMO GE SP65 was the best F40T12/F96T12 slimline daylight lamp in terms of color and brightness. 
<...>
For some places, I like the greenish-but-bright light of old-school, discontinued-sine-1994 F40CWs!  Never actually seen a 75w F96T12/CW in person though.
As a F32T8 yep SPX65 exists (I google'd it).
I've got a few of those GE F40SP65 in my box of 6500k/5000k lamps  :)
And I'd have to look to verify, but I'm fairly sure I have some F96T12/CW in use


Quote from: GEsoftwhite100watts
  And it has an actual in-line switch, unlike the LOA, which has an annoying, hard-to-access slide switch.  I might put an inline switch in,
LOL I have a stash of those LOA undercabinet lights in a box somewhere (haven't been used in years) I had a strip of 4 of the dark-brown ones in my bedroom at one time, instead of using the dumb little slide-switches on them, I wired all 4 together & plugged them into the half-outlet that's on a lightswitch

I installed GE undercabinet lights in the kitchen when remodeling it, and wired directly them to a lightswitch :)  that's the way it should be done!


Quote from: GEsoftwhite100watts
I stuck in a Thorn "Tropical Daylight" lamp, made in Great Britain. 
<...>
Besides, it's a pretty rare lamp here in the States!  I took it out of use 2 years ago to preserve it for just that reason, and plan to again.
Yep, something like that should deff be in the 'save' box!


Quote from: Mike
It doesn't surprise me that your house has 14 AWG wire. 
<...>
So far no luck selling any of that stuff. Sad Right now I have the sealed cases of 12 medium base HPS lamps per case (150W and 100W) on ebay, originally priced at $50 but they didn't sell so I dropped the price to $30 in hopes they'd get some bites. So far nothing. $30 is a steal
Same here, not surprised at all. Mine has it too, as does probably every single house in the neighborhood. 14 AWG meets code for a 15a circuit.
And yeah, if someone needed HPS lamps thats a good price :) Hopefully someone will buy.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 24, 2015, 08:31:50 PM
I'd leave the asbestos alone, and thus the fixtures, but that's just me.  Once started though (Plumbing leak, etc) I would rip it ALL out, lights included, and replace with something brighter.  But save the old fixtures of course...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 24, 2015, 08:53:44 PM
I'd leave it alone as well since it's more trouble than its worth to remove. You're more apt to get lung cancer trying to remove it than if it's just left alone.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 24, 2015, 09:10:00 PM
LOL yeah.  Same with stuff like lead paint.
I lived in a house built in '55 and updated in probably the 70s that had ceiling tiles like that, but I doubt they were asbestos.  Granted, some of them were still hanging on after a year and a half with no roof over them (House gutted but not demolished yet).  It also had that awful fake wood paneling, one bedroom had awful bright green shag carpet, and the kitchen/living/dining area had "popcorn" ceilings.   And more shag carpet. 
The outside had fake clapboard aluminum siding in most places, and a little bit of T-111.  All in forest-service-ranger-station brown.  Neighbor's house was pepto-bisomol pink, though LOL.

My current house isn't all that dated; it's pretty timeless since the inside is simple.  Even though some of the stuff dates to the 70s for sure.  Same with this other house I might be living in while attending college, at least from the pictures I've seen.  My dad wants to make it cape-cod style though, at least on the outside...wood shingle siding, etc.

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 25, 2015, 06:48:17 AM
Gee I'm pretty glad that 70s themes aren't huge anymore lol. My grandma's and aunt's back porch was finished into a room in 1973 and it's got wood paneling with tanish-orange carpet and tanish-orange curtains and brown switches/outlets. The carpet is the thin stuff you'd see used commercially (looks more like a towel stretched across the floor IMO lol).

BTW, my friend's dad is giving me a 2X F15T8 desk lamp with two Sylvania lifeline-era etched F15/CWs with black ends! My friend said his dad said it's a little thank you for fixing the basement lights.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 25, 2015, 09:33:16 PM
Wow, cool! You must have seen it in person already? Or have you trained Sebastian into ID'ing tubes?
Is it manual preheat? Sounds like it may be one of the infamous Dazor units.  I almost bought one at a Value Village in Anchorage, AK back in April but passed it up.  That one...IDK the brand but it was manual preheat with a Sylvania Designer Cool White lamp.  I'm kicking myself now LOL.

My godparents have a neat old manual preheat desk lamp, with the 70s avocado-green outside, with a pre-1992 GE F15T8/CW...the old GENERAL (GE) ELECTRIC etch.  My godmother calls the room it's in the "retro room"...all the light fixtures (Except for some modern recessed cans) are 70s vintage, as is the furniture, etc.  They actually have a lot of cool lighting in their house, it looks like a lighting enthusiast could be living there LOL. 

I feel like I also have a lot of cool and unusual lighting in my house now, how about you?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 26, 2015, 09:47:55 AM
Yep I saw it. No visible starters. It's got an ON and an OFF button, so I assume manual preheat. The tubes look near-NOS but I didn't plug it in. He had said his dad uses it a lot so I didn't say anything more about it or really pay much attention to it. But he texted me a few days later asking if I wanted it since his dad said it was a thank you. Of course I said yes!

I don't know the brand, but from a brief Google search, it looks like it could be a Dazor Model 1000. It's got two flex/BX conduit "arms" that hold the lamp section up.

My house itself has all modern "boring" lights throughout except for the basement, which has the fluorescents I've added and outside has the street lights. In my collection, I can totally say I have a lot of cool and unusual lights. I love my collection. I've definitely had some awesome vintage lamp scores recently! The HID/street light side of the collection has been pretty dry (aside from the massive haul with my grandpa) but that's probably for the better since I'm tearing out my hair trying to find a home for everything. I need to building something outside but I don't know what. My parents don't support my shed proposal because they say it would cost me too much money for me right now. But I need something!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 26, 2015, 03:30:43 PM
Well, congrats!  Take pics when you get it! I like these old manual-preheat desk lamps!

Well, doesn't the garage also have a couple neatish fluorescents, a turret and a '50s preheat shoplight?

Yeah, I like my collection too...mostly F40 lamps and a lot of loose incandescents, CFLs, etc.  I wish you could see my house in person LOL, you'd have a great time rooting around through my collection LOL. 

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 26, 2015, 06:03:58 PM
Well, yes, but the garage is part of the basement...

Will take pics when I gt it. ;D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 26, 2015, 06:36:18 PM
So your house is gradually getting "neater" in terms of lighting.  How old of a house would you want when you get your own? I'd love to own a 1920s-30s era house honestly. They have a lot of character!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 26, 2015, 08:21:18 PM
I suppose. Other than possibly having F32T8 lights to replace the boob lights in the basement, the lighting will pretty much stay the same. When I move out pretty much everything is coming with me.

Eh, I don't want an old house. Ideally, I'd like to be the first owner of the home so that I can decide how everything is laid out, etc. I wouldn't want a house any older than the 60s though since I don't want ungrounded outlets.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 26, 2015, 11:35:36 PM
Yeah, if you are the first owner than you don't have to worry about stupid things done by previous owners.  When you get houses built at literally ten different times it happens.  I'm AT LEAST the fifth owner of mine.  Maybe more...I don't know offhand, I haven't looked at the title search for the property.  I do wish there was a documented year the house was started.  I'm willing to bet it was late 70s though.  A lot of houses here were built in 1974, 1975, and especially 1979-1980.  Several others from the 1920s-1930s still stand and some are even still lived in and maintained.  Not all are, though, I know of one where the roof is literally collapsing.  And they're all in one particular part of town, but now mixed in with newer homes from the 70s/80s/90s/00s/last few years.  A lot of new construction here actually, relatively speaking. 

The house I might be living in while going to college was built in 1977/1981/2006, so also right in the era and style of mine (It's never had siding on most of it, at least one room still has exposed insulation, etc).  It's another "hippie" homestead house LOL.  Bathroom and office were added in '06, really nice 2-story deck and stairs built in '09.  It's really nice how that house has the full-disclosure paperwork to go along with it, telling me all these things.  Ever seen a full-disclosure form when selling/buying a house? They're interesting IMO.  I had to laugh at this one though in many places, since some of the potential problems the form asks about are fine with this place but have occurred at other houses I've lived in.  For instance, one question is something like "Is this property affected by any noise sources (Traffic, airplanes, etc).  and this place apparently isn't but I had to laugh, having lived less than a block from all sorts of things at different times: High school football field and band practice, (Atascadero, CA)), Alaska Marine Lines shipping yard and Arrowhead LP Gas/Propane place, auto repair place, shipyard and National Guard Armory (All within less than a city block of the house I lived in in Sitka, AK), constant traffic noise at both those places, being near a major state highway (Sitka) and less than a mile from a major freeway and not much further from a railroad (Atascadero, CA), and currently living right under the final approach/takeoff for floatplanes at my current place.  7:30 AM in the summer, BUUUUUUUUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!!!!!!!! And a commercial boat harbor.  But the noise here thankfully isn't 24/7 constant, but I'd still say my current place is affected by other noise. 

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 27, 2015, 08:56:37 AM
Hmm have you tried looking for date stamps on stuff like lumber, PVC pipes, and electrical cable? My house has dates on those things. The lumber is all 2001 that I've seen (when the house was started) and everything else is 2001-2003 range. The closet lights all have universal trigger start ballasts. Mine is dated January 2003 so I assume the others are as well.

Besides the obvious perks of being the original owner of a house, I guess a (minor) drawback is that you don't have many interesting stories about morons doing repairs on the house lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 27, 2015, 07:48:10 PM
A lot of the lumber is locally milled so no date stamps...but I'll check everything else, good thought! I suppose even plywood could have answers though.

Yeah, member SeberHusky on LG has a house built in the early '50s and he has some GREAT stories about moronic home electricians, illicit plumbers, idiotic HVAC technicians, etc. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 27, 2015, 08:25:39 PM
Yeah I would have never bought that house if I were him. Granted he didn't know of a lot of the issues but he didn't hire an inspector so it's his own fault (would you ever buy a car without having a mechanic look at it?). Because if he hired an inspector and the inspector found all those things wrong with the house, the SELLERS would have had to pay to have the issues fixed because technically if the house is not code compliant (or at least compliant to the existing code when the electrical work was done) it's not in salable condition. Once you buy the house though all the issues become your problem. Unless you plan to totally gut the house anyway, you should always always always get it inspected! I can't believe he didn't do that but to each their own... To add insult to injury, he's got time to snap all these pictures of the horrible hack jobs in his house but apparently no time to fix any of them. Tell him how he can fix it right and he makes up so BS excuse as to why he hasn't fixed it. Whatever...

I actually noticed some code issues in my grandparents' basement (mom's mom and step-dad; my grandpa that scraps). There are splices not in a box. They don't seem too concerned about it though. They've had an electrician do work in their basement and he's apparently not a "real" electrician since it's a MESS down there. Wires running across joists (that's only allows if you put something like a furring strip across the joists and nail to that. "Floating" cable is a big code violation. And on top of that, these floating cables are running diagonally across the basement, meaning there's more than a joist's distance between romex tacks. And there's this giant box full of cables and splices. This electrician was charging premium prices and doing half-ass work all those years. He ran a line for their pool with UF cable in PVC conduit. The cable ran under the pool deck and there is no conduit under there (which is not a code violation; code allows exposed UF outdoors IF the cable is not in an area that people will be in [so yes, the street light on my deck is a violation, but it's temporary]) however, the conduit runs upward and ends with no connector at all on top. The top of the PVC is open with the UF coming out. That's a big violation indoors or out! At the very least it would have a romex clamp at the end as a strain relief but obviously since this is outdoors it should have a weatherproof connector or something. NOTHING! We found it out because we replacing a section of picket fence (to which this run of conduit was attached, as was the switch/outlet at the end of this run, which was for the pool motor) so I unscrewed everything and set the PVC/outlet box assembly down and water came out of the box! Water was all inside the PVC pipe! My grandpa was really pissed. So that's how I assumed the position as their electrician lol. I'm way cheaper and don't take any shortcuts (why should I? I'm not paying for the materials! lol). In the end, rather than take apart the whole thing, I wrapped the opening in question with a LOT of electrical tape and then drilled a couple of tiny pinholes on the lowest section of the conduit so that any water than got in could get out.

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 27, 2015, 09:57:14 PM
Actually I think the house has been in his family since it was built, just passed down to him.

This place we're looking at...you BET my dad is going to check it out in person before we bite...I might also try to go. 

"floating" wires? How about romex going across a ceiling with no securing devices at all?  That's the case in my hallway.  You can tell the drywall was done later, cut to fit around the wires, but this wire is temporary (Well, it was temporary in, like, 2001, and still there, but I have all the stuff to redo it going under the house in the crawlspace). 

I'm admittedly also guilty of "floating" wire in a few other places as well.

I've been acquiring scrap OSB around town lately, and now have almost enough to cover the walls and ceiling in my lighting-junk room/home office.  You've probably seen it in my uploads, it's the room with the Tyvek walls (It was still way better than exposed insulation, and cut down drafts considerably since there's still no siding on the outside of much of my house).  I've put up a few pieces but have more to go.  The (sloped) ceiling is going to be a PITA though!  The Tyvek "rattles" with drafts/air pressure changes though and it's really annoying hearing that on windy nights! It's been driving me nuts for about 4 years now. 

And it turns out I still lack "skill" with a Skillsaw, my cuts suck on long stretches! Oh well, I'm learning.  I can cut a 2X4 just fine, but sheets of OSB...plus that stuff is a pain to cut anyway opposed to plywood. 

I think I'm going to try to treat it like Sheetrock, using drywall mud on the joints and screw holes, then paint it.  We actually successfully textured plywood like drywall elsewhere in the house, though we didn't tape it, using Bondo underneath instead, and now all the cracks are showing up again about four years later.  On, well, should do moulding over it I suppose.

And my friend/boss got the Deuce running apparently, so that whole deal could be a step closer to possible fruition. I should be getting pictures soon.   He's building an 8X14 box on the back to store his stuff, which actually works great for both of us, since it will now serve a purpose other than scrap metal until June when I can deal with it.  Plus I may just leave that on the back if I end up with it.  It may have to help me move in August, anyway.  Or be a drive-around workshop for awhile.  I know other examples of that; a shipwright friend converted an old Sea-Mart (Local supermarket in Sitka, AK) delivery cube truck into his mobile shop, it's pretty neat!  Workbenches, small woodstove for heat, tool storage between jobs, etc. 

And my dad had a tow-behind tool trailer he made into a pretty neat shop too at one point.  Here again, it also turned out great!  It even had its own 3000w Honda gas generator for places where no other power was available within reach of an extension cord.  You can actually see it here: http://www.instantstreetview.com/@57.057456,-135.346832,5.04h,12.65p,1z

And look to the right a few feet...see that sign? It looks to have a mini-WideLite flood at the top.  Maybe MV? Never seen it lit, and the (presumably lit) signs (which are blurred) for Western Union, Glidden Paint, and Fleming Paint Center (What the building used to be about 10 years back) have been wrong for at least a decade LOL since that place went out of business.

I wonder what lamps are hidden inside the signs? And if you look at the building and ignore the HPS yardblaster lights, there's a pole with what appears to be the ballast for a now-long-gone WideLite flood, too.  So you get some interesting light scenery in this Streetview grab too! The streetview is a little dated but last I saw this intersection in August it was still like that, sans the trailer which we finally moved after having it parked there for many years (Hence why I figured it'd be on Streetview).  My dad put it together, had it for awhile, sold it to a friend who is a marine electrician, bought it back, then traded it to another friend of ours for an ATV. 

Anyway, a drive-around shop would actually be perfect for me, I could just park the truck if it wasn't my daily driver (Which it may very well be) and use it as my shop/storage, and keep my lighting junk out of the house I might be living in at college.  Or if I have to live in the dorms full-time it can be my mobile storage unit!

Title: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on November 28, 2015, 11:08:53 AM
Hmm you'd think he'd have known then. Just a bad situation all around.

Yes that's worse, but "floating" wires across joists isn't as obvious since the cable is still tacked down and may appear to be strung neatly but it's still a violation since the cable is prone to being snagged. Granted, when I added the light in their basement I "floated" the cable to it since there are already so many cables like that. The preferred method is to find a way to run the cable along the joist and avoid crossing joists at all if possible, but it's not always possible or practical.

I wouldn't use drywall joint compound for OSB personally. Because the compound has nothing to adhere to. Joint compound is essentially powdered drywall and you add water to make it a paste and when it dries it essentially becomes drywall. It's not a bonding agent or an adhesive so it's one of those "hope for the best, prepare for the worst" situations. All the instances I've seen plywood used as a substitute for drywall, they used 1X4 furring strip along the plywood seams.

Interesting streetview. The signs aren't blurred if you move closer to them. I saw the ballast cans. Interesting!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 28, 2015, 02:30:18 PM
Yeah, what about Bondo then? Granted, that stuff has a horrible odor, like fiberglass resin!

Yeah, what did you think? I wish I could score that little WideLite!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 28, 2015, 07:05:57 PM
I've never used bondo. Don't even know what it is.

Yeah that Widelite would be a nice score!
Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on November 28, 2015, 08:28:54 PM
BTW, check out my Simplex clock installed in the laundry room!

 Here's a link.  (http://www.lighting-gallery.net/gallery/displayimage.php?album=3740&pos=0&pid=113835)

I made the wood box myself. It's 16" X 16" X 4". I made it out of 1X4 pine furring strip and 1/4" oak veneer plywood. I used Minwax Red Oak stain to get the color and used polyurethane as a glossy finish coat. Really adds to the 50s/60s vibe IMO. I could totally see this clock being flush-mounted on a wood paneling wall in an office or something. However, this clock was mounted on the wall in a classroom at my school and the wall was good ol' utilitarian cinder block. Cinder block is pretty timeless. It's not really a dated look, though it was probably seen as utilitarian back then as it is now lol.

What do you think? I'm totally in love with the look lol. I can't wait to get the motor and correction bracket in so I can operate it. ;D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 28, 2015, 08:58:20 PM
I commented on the LG upload...

Did you buy all the materials for the box, or did you have them already?

Bondo is a body filler of sorts.  Your grandpa who does car body work would know what it is.  He could probably explain it better than I could.  It can also be used for fiberglass work, though that stuff is called "Fibre-Strand" and can be bought at NAPA.  It stinks to high heaven, though! My dad and I have used it on a lot of stuff.

When we re-did the rotten deck at our house in Atascadero some years back we were on a limited budget so we admittedly just chiseled rot out of joists and other timbers that were rotten in areas but still structurally sound, then filled those voids with Bondo ! :o  Not what I would have done but it worked LOL.  Anything was an improvement over what it replaced; a rotten deck covered with 5/8" plywood in most places so people wouldn't fall through!

It was originally built out of 2X6 fir tongue-and-groove car decking, then CAULKED between seams! Yes, for a DECK! Granted, as you've seen in the pics I showed, part of it was the cover for a carport, so I guess maybe they wanted it dry?  Anyway, since they had a FLOOR, it rotted in a matter of about 10 years.  House was built in '88, deck JUST completed in '94 when Mom bought the house, and by '06 it was so rotten it was a safety hazard.  Even with 5/8" plywood put down over much of it about five years before that! It was amazing how fast it had rotted! 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 28, 2015, 09:54:27 PM
I bought all the wood but I had the stain, polyurethane, and screws/nails. OOOOOOH, I think I know what it is now. It's like a whitish tan color and goes on with a blade then gets sanded down smooth almost like drywall compound but different... lol

oh boy caulking? lol :P ;D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 28, 2015, 10:30:35 PM
Yep, it's pinkish, or Fibre-Strand is greenish-bluish.  But yeah, you could compare it to drywall "mud" joint compound. 

Yes, CAULKING! It was ridiculous.  I've never lived in a house that didn't have multiple funky, code-violation things going on LOL. 

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on November 29, 2015, 02:07:55 AM
@GEsoftwhite100watts:
scrap OSB sued to be really easy to obtain here... just go to anyplace they were building new houses, and out in front of them there were bins of 'scrap'. sometimes pretty nice pieces too - like more than half a sheet. These days I wouldn't risk it since even though its "scrap" many new housing developments(which there's no shortage of) have security cameras watching at the entrance streets.

Sounds like you need to get a tablesaw LOL (easier, but large pieces are still a pain to deal with)

Calking the seems on a deck? :o that's one I've never heard of! It sure didn't last long.
My deck is getting to that point where its gonna need replacement (but its also getting close to 30 years old) I've been replacing 2x6 floorboards as they go rotten over the years...just been using whatever random/extra boards I have laying around. Some of the joists underneath are starting to rot now, as are 2 of the poles.

Your right about Bondo...horrid smelling stuff.

there's still no siding on the outside of part of your  house ??? :o :o wouldn't the walls leak & water get inside the walls when it rains?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 29, 2015, 08:50:43 AM
LOL the T12 slimlines in his spray booth must've taken the pink hue out lol. I do recall it being a tanish pinkish whitish color.

Our deck is the same age as the house (12years old) but we extended it a couple of years ago. When we did that we replaced all the wood decking with composite. The railings and stuff are still wood. Just the "floor" and the top piece of the railing are composite. Since everything is pressure treated and painted (except composite obviously) there's no rotting. Originally, the whole thing was slapped together with nails, so the deck was literally pulling itself apart as the wood pieces warped and the structure settled. The staircase was actually on the verge of falling off apparently! It's all fixed now and no issues since. Apparently the original builder of the deck really sucks at building decks. They didn't use the proper number of pilings and didn't space them properly either. I don't even know how the deck passed an inspection, but whatever. We didn't get a permit for the extension since we didn't want to end up ripping out the whole thing to rebuild it lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 29, 2015, 06:12:56 PM
Yeah, it's happened in the garage before.  I've also had finches nest INSIDE THE WALL as a result THREE years in a row!  (1X12s for sheeting, with a knothole missing).  Yes, you could hear chirping inside the wall...this is the same room I'm doing the OSB in, so I may tear apart the wall just to pull the nest out and see).

I could use a table saw...I do have one!  But the edges are screwed up, which is part of why I'm cutting it...

Yeah, seeing it under fluorescents probably did that.  Another reason to relamp with /950!  Colors in the spray booth will render accurately-ish to what they would look like outdoors.

LOL sounds like your house isn't violation-free either!  Welcome to the club of houses with problems that appear on full-disclosure statements! Congrats!

I like the "Trex" composite stuff, I wish it was more common...it never rots!  Even pressure treated eventually will, usually from the inside-out!  Unless you get the REALLY nasty dark green stuff. 

My whole house is built on pilings, many of them are creosote (tar) soaked, and many are just whatever else LOL.  At least AFAIK there aren't any tree stumps holding this house up...the last house we had here did though! Problem is, many of the "natural" ones are rotten now, 30-some years later.  And some others are super treated 8X8s, similar to railroad ties. 

Another issue with my house is that when it was originally built (Well, the first two iterations out of ten) they used salvaged 3X12 (full 3X12, too!) from old herring reduction plants (they were abandoned and stuff was up for grabs, but I'll tell you about that some other time) and laid them on their sides, making a floor.  With pilings and timbers every 6 feet underneath.  Then they put 5/8" plywood on top as a subfloor to cover cracks and stop drafts, then stapled black plastic underneath as vapor barrier/draft stopper.  Problem is, it worked in REVERSE, keeping the wood wet, so now it's all dry-rotted.  Not to mention one room had a leaking chinmey and two broken (yes, literally open to the sky/snow/rain) skylights for many years, as the house was empty/abandoned for eight years before my dad bought it and fixed it up.  So now that floor is all rotten, especially under that chimney. We threw more plywood down over it but it's all rotten underneath.  Skylights are just a terrible idea here, with as much rain as we get!  And the roof was/is a "shedding gable" so with two pitches at once it's hard to flash a 6" or 8" metalbestos chimney so it doesn't leak!  It's always been a problem spot.  So that whole room, and two other additions past it, need to be ripped off and rebuilt more or less correctly. 

If you want to see pictures of this, I can put some up on Flickr for you.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 29, 2015, 09:16:44 PM
Yeah the house itself is to code all the way (as far as I am aware) but the Frankendeck, well, the name says it all lol.

BTW, I replaced the two "boob" lights with my two vaporproof F40/RS fixtures! the vaporproofs are 70s or 80s vintage and originally had Day-O-Lite 2X F40/RS strips inside but they were empty when I got them. Anyway, I installed new Metalux strips I bought at Lowe's and put my mid-late 90s Magnetek 0.77A HPF ballasts in them, which are essentially full power. The fixtures are totally matching, which I wanted. Even the lamps are the same; I installed Sylvania F40/CWPs in them. (Ones that start right up and not mercury starved.)

Needless to say, it's VERY bright down there! I'd install 5000K lamps but I don't want to use them up. Heck, maybe I'll still use them lol. I will post pics another day. I didn't get a chance to grab any. Time to get ready for school tomorrow lol. They don't have diffusers (yet; my parents agreed to pay for them for me as a Christmas gift) but one of the two has the too-long diffuser latched on anyway, though it looks silly with it hanging off 3" on one side. That long diffuser was grabbed by mistake, as I assumed all the vaportights were the same size but some were longer than others I guess...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 29, 2015, 09:26:13 PM
Glad to hear you got rid of those awful looking fixtures!  Put 5000K lamps in for sure, you'll like them better! 
The ballasts are seriously .77a? I thought they'd be .73a by the mid-late 90s after EPACT.

I'm a little surprised your parents let you put in vaportights though, but good on you guys! 

I want to replace my two "breast" lights too, one with a tiffany hanging light over the dining table and the other with...something.  Haven't decided yet.  Maybe a wraparound?  Or just cap off that box, that light is never used (we loosened the bulb in it intentionally).  It's on the same switch as the other and would look weird, plus the glare on the TV up the stairs from it is horrrible (Hence why it got "turned off" in the first place).

And there's four "mushroom" lights I also want to eventually replace.  Maybe with 8 foot slimlines for three of them (in my hallway) and for the other, a 4ft strip or wraparound? (The room is like 7X7, too small for an 8 footer).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 29, 2015, 10:32:23 PM
LOL yeah it was just too dark down there. They let me install the vaportights because they're matching and in their eyes, they look the same as a wrap light lol. The installation was actually very easy too! I found the joists first try (the lights are mounted on the studs so that I only had to locate one and stick with it lol). The only thing is, because I mounted them to the joists and because the junction boxes were mounted to (the side of) the joists, half of the JB is poking out on both lights, so I bought a couple of round box covers and cut off part of them so they'd fit and installed them over the box. I also fudged the wires too. I was unable to line up the fixture over a KO so I just drilled a 1/4" hole through the fiberglass housing to let the wires in and then the house wires travel an inch or so to the nearest KO on the channel lol. All splices are made within the fixture, so I still adhered to that part of code lol.

But aside from a couple of small things, the installation went very smoothly and efficiently! I'd still like to take the vaportights with me when I move out though so I'll eventually find a pair of wrap lights and slap them up in place of the vaportights after I move out.

Ah yeah I'd just put a JB cover on that "turned off" light lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 29, 2015, 11:26:02 PM
Yeah,  plus who looks up there anyway? Lights are meant to be seen by, not looked at!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on November 30, 2015, 01:30:44 AM
@GEsoftwhite100watts:
LOL at 'finches nesting inside the wall'. I'd deff pull the old nest out, probably a bunch of bird sh*t  in there too. LOL
there was one year where alittle corner piece on one my eves had come off, and the finches found it before I had the chance to notice/fix it.

That Trex-type stuff looks pretty nice (but its expensive). Only complaint I've ever heard is that it gets really slick in the winter.
I'd still go with that over wood though, and Home Depot I know atleast used to sell galvanized steel parts for the "structual" part of decks...so you could ge by with using no wood at all. Nothing to rot! :)

I bet those old full-sized 3X12's weigh a ton!

My parents wanted me to get rid of their skylights when they had the roof re-shingled a number of years ago (I did all the 'inside' part like drywall and such. Roofing company did the 'outside' part)

@Mike:
Whats a 'boob light'?


-----------------------
I did pick up one of the $.99 Utilitech LED bulbs Lowes had for Black Friday, but haven't tested it yet.

-----------------------
I also went to a thrift store on Sat. (got nothing but a boring set of LED icicle lights), but you guys should get a laugh out of this:
3/4 of the store is lit with 4100k F96T8's, and the other 1/4 is lit with 6500k F32T8's (and a few replacements of random color-temps around the store)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 30, 2015, 11:00:16 AM
I'm sure they do! There's a lot of big timbers in my house. 
Pressure-treated also gets real slick when it gets wet and a little bit mossy/slimy. 

A "boob light" is a term coined by Mike and myself/my dad (It's an inside joke between us) for a certain style of light fixture, usually with one or two lamps, sometimes three, that's just way too common in apartment/hotel/motel hallways, hotel rooms, and the quick-and-dirty developer houses.  Know the ones? We think they're hideous.  Hence the (admittedly non-G-rated) nickname for them.  I hate them!

Well, Xmaslightguy, you would have really laughed at the supermarket lit with half 6500K, half 3000K!  Some areas 100% of a color, others randomly mixed. 

The store was in a strip mall, and had expanded into the next "space" next to it, lit with suspended wraparounds which must have had magnetic F40T12 ballasts, but had F32T8s fitted! The "shimmer" was disgusting, especially to a lighting enthusiast!

And a lot of commercial places in that area were/are lit with...get this...T12 slimlines still in use...with GE F96T12/SP65 75 watt!   Unfortunately as they die off they get spot-replaced with GE HL41 60w lamps.  I'm sure it's been what the local True Value has stocked at those different times.  But it's neat shopping under hundreds of slimlines with daylight full-wattage lamps!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 30, 2015, 03:08:28 PM
 A boob light is something along the lines of this.  (http://static.bootic.com/_pictures/42925/nuvo-carousel-1-light-flush-dome-fixture-w-auburn-beige-glass.jpg) They seriously look like boobs. Even my parents agree lol. Well, I can think of more raunchy names for the "boob lights" lol. ;) :P

Ugh why F32T8s on a HPF F40/RS ballast? It destroys the ballast! >:( :8) Some people are so stupid. It's always those little bargain stores that have morons maintain the lighting lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 30, 2015, 08:43:45 PM
Actually the lamps looked to have been there for quite some time; they had darkened ends and a few were even EOL and flickering like magnetic F40/RS EOL, but worse! AND they were all 5000K/6500K...that area for whatever reason has tons of daylight lamps in commercial use! I actually like that aspect...the T8s in T12 fixtures not so much...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on December 01, 2015, 01:03:50 AM
Moss doesn't normally grow here, its too dry (sometimes shady areas in the spring you'll see it on the ground)...and ofcourse it grows up in the mountains/forest :)

That supermarket you mentioned was exactly what I thought of when in the thrift store. Ofcourse 3000K/6500K is an even more extreme difference LOL
I think it'd actually look kinda cool if a place did it as 3000K/6500K, but organized so every fixture had one of each lamp.

T12 Slimlines are rare to see around here anymore :( and I've never seen daylight used...
So that'd be really cool to see a whole place lit with those good old lamps :cool:

-----
I've ran 2xF40T12 magnetic ballasts with 1-F40T12/1-F32T8 and had no ill effects on the ballast (even running all day in a fairly warm room - could easily get above 90 in the summer (but I also did have a fan on the light to keep it cooler)).
With 2 F32T8's its not reliable starting(especially hot re-starts) and I didn't want to overdrive the ballast that much.

LOL.LOL @ 'boob lights' .. yeah I've seen those, fairly common here too. I never thought much about them other than "its just a common incandescent light". Now I'll never think of them in the same way LOL.LOL they do look like boobs, now that I've seen this thread!
I'd personally take those over something like a shoplight/striplight/etc (but I'd take a nice-looking fluorescent fixture over them any day)
And ofcourse if it was a garage/shop/or unfinished space... then a nice strip of shoplights/striplights is what I'd want!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 01, 2015, 11:00:07 AM
Imagine a checkerboard pattern (It was troffers).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on December 03, 2015, 11:50:43 PM
checkerboard pattern of troffers?? that's allot of light! I bet it was nice & bright in there 8)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 10, 2015, 10:54:23 AM
No, not in every "hole" of the drop ceiling if that's what you mean. 

So I went to True Value and bought a couple Advance 120-277v F32T8 ballasts to fix a couple wraparounds in my kitchen with bad ballasts.  We'll see how long they last...Advance doesn't seem the best at all but they're all that's really available around here in the two local hardware/lumber stores.  And I wonder how bad the RFI is?  Even on FM...they tend to make bad "hash" into an even-slightly-weak FM stereo signal. 

Also bought a Westpointe (True Value light bulb brand) 13w spiral bug light.  We'll see how it does once I put it in...

Also recently went several more places with...guess what...F32T8s shimmering away on F40T12 ballasts!  And/or hilariously mixed color temps.  Mismatched fluorescent colors doesn't really bug me but T8s on T12 ballasts sure do!   I can tell by the "flicker" and how they blacken/age...it's different from on the proper ballasts. 

And  hey Mike, guess what?  In a couple weeks I'm planning to go visit someone who is also a Deuce owner and will certainly be picking their brain....in fact they might actually be the one who teaches me to drive.  Possibly in a Deuce?  I'm definitely going to take up the opportunity to learn on old logging roads and not in traffic LOL.  It's funny, about  50% of people laugh at me for planning to own one, the other 50% all say "Do it!" Especially considering I live in a place without roads or cars...I enjoy telling people that this time next year my commute might consist of a 2 hour each way road trip each weekend in a surplus army truck LOL. 



Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 10, 2015, 10:28:51 PM
And last night I also installed my Lithonia 2XF20T12 strip over my (temporary) computer desk (Remodeling the room, had to move the desk away from that wall to do the OSB treatment I was describing (Well, this wall is going to be plywood scraps).  I just screwed it to the shelf above.  I also added a pullchain switch that came from a cheap, modern F32T8 shoplight that died and I was given by my boss at work to part out. 

Lamps are 1985 GE F20T12/CWs but I might buy some Chroma 50s next time I'm in True Value. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on December 10, 2015, 10:58:12 PM
@GEsoftwhite100watts:
With the 'checkerboard pattern' what I was picturing was the "white squares" being 2 troffers side-by side, and the "black squares" being a pair of ceiling tiles.

Stores (be it True Value, or anywhere else) aren't the place to get ballasts (way too expensive) LOL ... eBay is!

I'd just leave the lights off if they cause issues when tuning in slightly-weak FM stations, probably will depend on how far the stereo is from the kitchen! Is its a couple rooms away, it may not matter.

One interesting thing is doing a 2x overdrive of a F32T8 on a F32 instant-start ballast, doesn't seem to have an adverse affect on it, and is basically equivalent to the overdrive a F40 ballast will give...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 11, 2015, 06:24:33 PM
Yeah, when used on the (wrong) ballasts, those T8s are really bright! 
I actually just installed my new ballasts.  We'll see how long they last...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 13, 2015, 11:34:56 PM
And those ballasts had full-length leads!  Well, long enough...but still not as long as a good old F40/RS that would have 4 feet on both ends LOL.  I was happy to see I didn't need wirenuts on 600v wiring though!

I also installed the Westpointe 13w CFL buglight.  It's a little oranger and dimmer than I'd like but better than 2700K or the 6500K spiral it replaced, which was too glary and white LOL.  This one is kinda like HPS (less pink though) and although I normally hate that color  it works well here, it's not so obtrusive at night. 

The globe fell off that light though after I changed the bulb and shattered...so now it's a bare spiral.  It gets hit by driving rain, though, so I'll either spend a hard-earned under $5 for a jelly-jar globe or maybe install a marine vaportight there instead, with screw-on, thick glass globe.  Just need to drill a hole for the photocell. 

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 14, 2015, 05:52:33 PM
Yeah the new T8 ballasts now have full-length leads. Not like the stupid T12 replacement ballasts that don't even have leads long enough for a 2ft lamp. :8) Most F32T8 ballasts can operate up to a F40T8 (5ft) so the leads coming from both sides of the ballast total out to about 5ft (the single read lead being longer than the blue leads since there's only ever one red for a 1, 2, or 3 lamp T8. For some reason a 4-lamp T8 ballast is wired differently with yellows. IDK why. The wires for a 4X F32T8/IS are the same as a 2X F40/RS but the wires are hooked up differently, obviously.

BTW, I've thought of a way to hardwire my streetlight on the deck to the switch for the PSMH deck light on the side of the house. The problem is, I need a way to be able to run the street light without running the deck light and vice versa.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 14, 2015, 08:21:50 PM
Just get one of those "combination" switches that take an outlet faceplate, and replace the porch light's switch with that, one side for the porch light, one side for the cobrahead...

Yeah, I was impressed seeing Advance(d failure rate) replacement ballasts with long leads! These seem better in many regards:  Happier on MSW inverter electricity, longer leads, and almost heavier!  Despite having a slimmer case than what they replaced! We'll see how long they last LOL...the originals still had their original GE EcoLux F32T8/SP35s, installed in 2011, but they're getting near the end...granted, GE EcoLux F32T8s seem to last a very long time, even when jet black for an inch on both ends!

Magnetic slimline replacement ballasts are also annoying, they have even shorter leads!  Kinda irritating when you use a replacement ballast to completely rebuild a Lithonia 8ft strip fixture (I did it with the one that later almost killed me when it fell off my the ceiling one night).  I ended up using #16 stranded wire, then "pigtailing" it to the proper stranded wire at the lampholders.  I also used #18 lamp "zip" cord to get from the ballast to the center of the fixture where power was.  Not up to code at all but it worked LOL.  For a few weeks that is. 

I'm not sure what to do with that light now, it got some damage when it fell, it has a crappy, noisy energy-saver ereplacement ballast, one of the plunger side sockets is broken, one of the lampholder brackets is bent in, you get the idea.  I don't even know how that happened and the sockets didn't shatter.  Not only that, but both 4' sections of channel cover came undone (They were tight too!) and flew several feet away.  Maybe the fixture bent enough they came undone at the ends opposite the clips? I haven't tried seeing if that fixture is flat or tried powering it up or anything since that happened, it leans up in the corner LOL.  It's still a keeper though, I plan to repaint it, get new plunger side sockets, and get myself a case of 75w 5000K or 6500K lamps, then install all five 8 foot slimline strips I have, probably in the garage.

I'm also going to inquire soon about those WWII looking F30T8 preheaters with HPF GE ballasts in that vacant building, since I might go visit the owner next week.  Might also hopefully get to drive a Deuce for the first time and pick their brain about ownership of one...

If I get the OK for the fixtures I'll hopefully also have time on the return trip to go hit up True Value and Spenard Builders Supply for F30T8 lamps!  I may need as many as 18 from what I can count!  Hopefully they aren't Unobtanium expensive.  Not that True Value or SBS would even have them, but does anyone know if the F25T8 3' modern electronic-ballast lamps will work...are they electrically similar?   



Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on December 14, 2015, 09:42:59 PM
Quote from: Mike
  For some reason a 4-lamp T8 ballast is wired differently with yellows. IDK why. The wires for a 4X F32T8/IS are the same as a 2X F40/RS but the wires are hooked up differently, obviously.
And if you do wire it up like you would a RS (except 1 yellow to each lamp), then you have a nice 2-lamp T8 overdrive setup (or T12 at normal power)


Quote from: Mike
  BTW, I've thought of a way to hardwire my streetlight on the deck to the switch for the PSMH deck light on the side of the house. The problem is, I need a way to be able to run the street light without running the deck light and vice versa.
Sounds like you either need 2 switches (1 for each light)...or leave the original switch, and put a 3-way downstream from it, and one light on each "side" of it (you could have either light on, but not both)


Quote from: GEsoftwhite100watts
Magnetic slimline replacement ballasts are also annoying, they have even shorter leads!
I hate when they put short leads on ballasts.
Sylvania F96T8 electronics have full length leads. I was happy to see that.

Quote from: GEsoftwhite100watts
get myself a case of 75w 5000K or 6500K lamps
Go for the 6500k!

Quote from: GEsoftwhite100watts
'll hopefully also have time on the return trip to go hit up True Value and Spenard Builders Supply for F30T8 lamps!  I may need as many as 18 from what I can count!
For that many you'd be better going eBay or maybe an online place
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 14, 2015, 10:23:19 PM
@ Andy: Yes, but I'd have to run another cable from the switch box inside the house. How am I supposed to do that? lol I was thinking of adding a little toggle switch on the bottom of the PSMH deck light but water would be an issue. Plus my dad will probably disagree with tying the street light into the house's wiring anyway. It would be exposed UF for about 6" from the box to the edge of the siding where the slider is. Then the UF would run in the little "track" along the edge of the siding down to the deck stairs and then go under the stairs and tie into the existing UF run at the box where the existing UF/extension cord splice is. It would be a nice easy and for the most part aesthetically pleasing wiring run. Would be very convenient too. And would still be temporary since the cable could easily be ripped out if it had to be. 

Yeah the short leads are irritating if there's not enough slack to begin with. Ideally, there's supposed to be extra slack on the supply wires (romex etc.) but not always the case. It's not a code requirement and in general I personally tend to snip excess wiring to keep things neat but I leave just a little slack so I have something to work with. Yeah good luck with the F30T8 fixtures!

@ xmaslightguy: Oh wow I didn't know you could do the overdrive thing. I was thinking of the three way switch idea. I think I want to have the street light as a default-on and have the deck light optional. Which was why I was going to install a little toggle switch on the bottom of the PSMH light but there's water intrusion to worry about unless a waterproof version of those mini toggles exists.

I agree, go for the 6500K if halophosphate, but I'd go 5000K if you're able to score triphosphors.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 14, 2015, 11:39:34 PM
Or put a weathertight junction box on top of the existing box for the PSMH light, remount the PSMH, then run conduit down the wall...but that still doesn't solve the switch problem...although with conduit you could run multiple different wires going both directions, to and from the power source, with weatherproof switches.

Or just wire that streetlight dusk-to-dawn, as long as the neighbors won't complain. 

LOL yeah, plus I want something other than crappy Indonesian GE cool whites.  Although they're fine for "tester" lamps of 1950s-at-the-newest ballasts that probably haven't been powered up since the 70s at the most recent, knowing the history of the place.

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 15, 2015, 06:46:54 AM
I don't need to add a box; the light itself already had the KO (which is how I got the idea in the first place). I want the cable concealed so no conduit. Any my parents wouldn't allow dusk-to-dawn operation of either. The only thing that is allowed to run dusk-to-dawn is the 7W nightlight in the bathroom. What I could do is convert the PSMH light to incandescent so its output won't be as high. If the PSMH light had a twistlock PC I could just remove the PC when I want it off but it has a wired button style PC. Perhaps I could retrofit a twistlock PC on it? ???
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 15, 2015, 10:30:23 AM
LOL I'd just add a circuit if possible.  Are your breakers outside in your meter box?  That'll make it way easier, though conduit may still be necessary, but it could be done fairly inconspiculously.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 15, 2015, 03:48:54 PM
Outside? Why would anyone mount their breaker panel outside?! :o I have a panel in the garage and a subpanel in the utility room. The lines are all inside the wall. Adding a circuit defeats the purpose of having a temporary installation. I might as well just buy a utility pole and plant it in the backyard lol. My parents don't want permanent. I haven't even asked them about wiring it in with the deck light. They might say no.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 15, 2015, 07:58:24 PM
You mean you've never seen a meter box that also contained the distribution for the house? They're everywhere in my area of California...breaker box and meter, all in one unit. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 15, 2015, 08:13:59 PM
Noooo. Every place I've seen has the breakers in the basement or in raised ranches like mine, sometimes the garage. Never heard of outdoor breakers. Kinda stupid having it outside IMO. Seems like a target for vandalism IMO and it's very inconvenient to have to go outside to flip off a breaker or turn on a tripped one, especially in bad weather.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 15, 2015, 10:47:35 PM
Granted, it doesn't really rain there...I should put up a pic of the meter box of the house I grew up in on Flickr for you...or the off-topic section of LG.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 16, 2015, 06:45:26 AM
I see... I guess it is kinda interesting but doesn't make sense IMO, unless you don't have a basement. But even my grandparents have their breaker box indoors at their mobile home; it's in the broom/coat closet.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 16, 2015, 10:31:12 AM
Hmm, it may also be a regional thing...IDK why though, I prefer the idea of it being inside too.

So I think I'm gonna be able to pull it off: Visiting the friend who owns the place with the F30T8 preheaters and who is also another Deuce guy.  Wish me luck!  I may get to drive one...

IDK what the fixtures really are but worst comes to worse I should have a bunch of single-lamp HPF ballasts I can use for F40T12s, which is mainly what I'd like to preheat with. 

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 16, 2015, 04:10:37 PM
Wow you guys should have a mini deuce convention (seriously!). Would be awesome to have a bunch of people with the same interest in one place (would be cool to have a L-G or GoL lighting convention too!)

Yeah the F30T8 ballasts will run F40s fine but you'll need to splice the leads (might need to do that anyway is they're brittle)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 16, 2015, 09:12:20 PM
"A mini Deuce convention".  I laughed out loud!  It's been done many times before...there's a forum for old MVs I'm part of...and everyone jokes about being crazy, just like us lighting enthusiasts do! 

Funny thing is, I actually rode in a Deuce with him about 3-1/2 years ago and thought nothing of it/didn't really know/care what it was, then about a year ago I got hooked and decided an old military 6X6 cargo truck would be my daily driver, even if it was my first vehicle.   Then about a month ago I decided I'm going to get a Deuce to start with until I get a CDL (Gotta be 19 for that in Alaska) and then "upgrading" to a certain model of 5 ton (a Deuce is a 2-1/2 ton) that at least has an automatic transmission and a few other nice features, and will at least enable me to get up to the 55MPH speed limit going down the freeway...including that ridiculous Richardson Highway we looked at on Streetview...

So I'm excited to actually maybe get to go crawl around on one again, now that I know what it really is.

A lot of people I know think I'm going to be a terrible driveway, so I've thought about (as a joke) taking some GoPro video of merging through freeway interchanges in a Deuce or 5 ton...

I'd also like to meet some LG/GOL members in person someday!

Yeah, I can foresee lead splicing LOL. Nasty, old, brittle cloth wires being spliced with wire nuts to modern stuff LOL.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 17, 2015, 03:15:31 PM
Yeah sometimes you get lucky and the wire insulation is not stiff and brittle, but even if it's still pliable, if you bend it more than a couple times the cloth still frays. I love the vintage look of cloth wire but honestly I hate it from a more technical perspective. I don't "trust" it as much. I don't mind the fiberglass insulation but even IT gets brittle after years of heat as witnessed in my 80s GE cobraheads that have fiberglass insulated socket leads. The color also fades from them over time too. The blue, which was at one time a vibrant royal blue, is just a pale whitish sky blue.

Well I think that a human would definitely make a terrible driveway but I'm sure you have potential to be a good driver. :P ;D

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 17, 2015, 07:16:53 PM
This stuff is sitting in a damp, abandoned building.  It's not under any roof leaks (roof is fine) but of course it's still going to be damp. 

So I think it's official:  I'm going to start driving within the next week.  Might get some Deuce seat time too, who knows? 

Hey Xmaslightguy, get a kick out of this:  I had to call up the University of Alaska Fairbanks IT/tech department...and their on-hold "muzak" is none other than  a feed of one of their university radio stations! (KUAC-FM 89.9 Fairbanks, AK).  It was really weird hearing NPR's Fresh Air closing out over the phone, interspersed with the recorded "our reps are helping others, please stay on the line". 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 19, 2015, 01:02:46 AM
Saw a couple neat old slimline fixtures in someone's garage today, a 4-lamp Sunbeam Visionaire strip and a 2-lamp something-or-other strip that was pretty vintage looking with a full length channel cover. 

The 4-lamper was in a sorry state, one lamp was missing and one was EOL and the way it's wired because of that only one lit, albeit dimly.  And the other was dim too, from 60w energy savers in freezing temps LOL. 
At least it looks like someone knows spent slimlines on the lag side can cook a ballast, and removed the offending lamp!

Lamps were all 2010 Sylvania cool white supersavers...with a BLACK etch, oddly enough! I would have thought they were eco by them.  They had the HG log, so they're not from 2000....

I may ask about trying to get them someday...I really want a 4-lamp 8ft fixture.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 24, 2015, 06:57:59 PM
Oh wow nice on the slimlines you saw. Four lamp fixtures (aside from tandem units or troffers) are always cool. Black-etched SuperSavers, eh? That's weird. All the SuperSavers I've seen have been green etched since before the (Hg) era. Sometimes they're a really dark green. Were they CWX or just plain CW? Sounds like interesting lamps.

BTW, I got the PC socket in for my Cooper OVX. ;D The holes for the two screws have been drilled. The large hole for the receptacle itself will be drilled once school is back in session (gonna take it to the construction shop to use a step bit, which I don't own.)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 30, 2015, 11:52:48 PM
Standard cool white, from before the July 2012 bans went into effect.

So I visited someone's house almost totally lit with the CREE LEDs.  I really like them! Dimmable too.  The wife is into lighting (not a collector though) and has visited/ "lurked" on LG in the past!  She isn't a member though.

I also started driving.  I'll post about that in the "learning how to drive" thread on here later, I'm tired now. 

Also crawled around on several Deuces for the last 10 days until yesterday.  Phew!  I learned a TON (well, 2-1/2 tons) of information, though!  Some funny stories about that I'll post later, but let's just say the second time I drove anything was trying to roll-start a dead Deuce by having the friend I was with tow me back and forth across a gravel parking lot in 10" of snow with a material handler...that was "interesting" to say the least.  (A "Please, Jesus" moment for sure).  I'd never tried driving a stick shift before...

It didn't start.  But I'll relate that story later, when I'm less tired.  But I got some seat time on these trucks!  Definitely sold on getting one. 



Title: Re: The Off Topic, Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on December 31, 2015, 08:43:49 PM
Cool! I haven't seen any full-LED homes yet. Haven't even seen any full-CFL homes yet lol. I don't mind the savings but LEDs still aren't improved enough for me yet. Not enough light is directed at the base. Plus I don't want to take out a loan to buy LEDs for the whole house (plus I don't pay the electric bill or buy the light bulbs so why should I worry? lol). I buy the bulbs for the fluorescent lights we have in use (or more accurately use bulbs from my own stash lol) but my parents buy the halogen lamps for the rest of the fixtures, though I pick them out. I've gravitated to clear 53W Sylvania halogens lol. It's my new "general purpose" lamp for the house lol. Still using CFLs in the kitchen/dining room though since those fixtures take four bulbs a piece and are used all the time. The bathrooms have clear 53W halogens in the exhaust fan lights, my parents' bedroom fan has two 53W clear halogens, the outside front lights have 53W clear halogens, the basement HAD 53W halogens (now just one since we only have one boob light left).

The garage has a vintage/NOS GE 100W soft white incandescent in the keyless socket. Probably from the 70s or 80s. Not a huge deal to me to use it though. The garage door opener has two Sylvania 60W soft white double-life lamps I think... I don't plan on using halogens in it since we don't even really use that light. It's just nice to have a little light after the garage door closes without having to turn on the actual lighting. My brother's room is all CFL. The three bulbs in the ceiling fan are GE Helicals and his table lamp on his dresser is a 13W Helical as well (it was 40W incandescent but the shelf mounted just inches above it got too hot for my liking). The two table lamps downstairs have 40W Philips soft whites in them. One of them is a 3-way table lamp too lol. We never use either of the lamps though lol. The hallway light has its original Sylvania SuperSaver softwhites. When/if those ever burn out I'd probably use the clear halogens in them, but possibly keep the 60W equivalent.

Anyway, I went to the ReStore yesterday and got a partial case of GE F40T12/CW tubes. It had six of the tubes it was supposed to have, two lightly used EcoLux GE F34T12CW tubes (I didn't know they were F34s since all the etches on all the lamps were at the bottom of the case and the one lamp I checked was a F40/CW, so I assumed they all were the same since it was a /CW case). There was also one used Westinghouse F40/CW with a bent pin. works fine though. And two NOS SLi Lighting F32T8/741s, six NOS GE EcoLux F32T8/SP41s, and one NOS GE EcoLux F32T8/SP35. The T8s were all extremely starved when I first tested them but I left them on for a while and they brightened up. Not sure if they'd be starved the second time they're lit though since I boxed them up after testing them and letting them run. And I got that Magnetek ballast you already commented on.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 31, 2015, 09:15:40 PM
Never seen fully-LED but I've seen fully-CFL many times. Never at any of the houses I've lived in though.
And LEDs are popping up everywhere around here. 
The Sylvania halogens are hard to get around here so I use the GEs, as much as they suck.  Or buy 6500K spirals if energy use is an issue.  When they get a little cheaper I'll start buying LEDs instead...but not at still over $10 per bulb. Although I may use an Amazon gift card I have to buy some LEDs for a few places CFLs just don't cut it!

I like the Crees, and the Philips, and the Feits. 

Replace that "breast" light with a 4-lamp 8ft slimline LOL.

Score! What era? Post etch photos, please!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 31, 2015, 09:25:12 PM
LOL The most that could fit would be a 2ft fixture. :P :D It's NEVER used though, so it's there to stay lol.

I have pics on my computer already taken but my LG pic quota is met so I'll have to wait till I can upload again. And no one comes on here anymore lol. the box is postmarked 1990. They're outside-etch GENERAL (GE) ELECTRIC, just before they switched to the oddball GENERAL (GE) ELECTRIC font etch before going to the meatball etch.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 31, 2015, 09:34:39 PM
Great lamps then! Pretty much Mainlighters.

I also saw some LED tubes (F32T8 replacements) in use in someone's shop I didn't absolutely hate either, the color was a nice 6000K-ish and they didn't flicker.  However, we'll never know how long they'd have lasted since the place burned to the ground day before yesterday.  (We know it was NOT caused by a CFL though LOL, we know what happened).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 31, 2015, 11:38:59 PM
Pics posted. ;D

Aw that sucks. They must've been pissed that they blew all that cash replacing the fluorescents with LEDs only to have the building burn down lol. (nah that was probably the last thing on their minds lol).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 01, 2016, 12:38:32 AM
It was a couple fixtures, not the whole thing.  (6-lamp highbays).  But I guess they had one ballast for SIX lamps...a ballast failure would extinguish a whole fixture.

The guy (a friend of mine) is pretty knowledgeable in the lighting field too, though not a Lighting Gallery member.  But his mother-in-law has "lurked" on LG!  It's always neat when you can talk to other people (this guy) who know a lot about lighting...actually we knew a lot about all the same things...radio/DXing, lighting, off-grid power, carpentry, excavators, surplus army trucks, (Another potential future Deuce owner, I might add; he knows a lot and gave me a ton of advice, and I also shared quite a bit with him). 

Actually, the fire was caused by some oil used to cool hot steel (blacksmithing/knife making shop) reaching it's flash point...it happened so fast they couldn't do anything but get out LOL.  Plus the building wasn't finished yet (work in progress, owner-built)...no Sheetrock, exterior was still tar paper, etc.  So of course it went up hot and fast! 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 01, 2016, 10:19:10 AM
A six-lamp ballast? Really? That's odd. Usually those six lamp highbays use two three-lamp ballasts. And the eight lamp ones use two four-lamp ballasts.

Oh wow the building wasn't even finished? Sounds like a bad situation all around that could have easily been avoided with the proper precautions. :(
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 01, 2016, 02:38:32 PM
The place was indeed a bit of a fire trap in hindsight LOL...and not being on city water/outside of city limits there wasn't really any kind of fire protection...I've seen way worse though!  I have so many stupid/dangerous stories LOL...

It was outside of the Petersburg, AK city limits, too, and Petersburg is on an island, this place was on the mainland, which was/is a very sparsely populated area.  7 miles across from town, across Fredrick Sound, 7 miles of open water.  Someone in Petersburg called the police, having reported seeing a fire over on the mainland.  Another friend (The one with all the Deuces) and I were in town at the time, in the grocery store.  Another friend calls him on his cell, and tells him that someone reported a fire there.  Us having boated over to town in a skiff, my friend had a handheld VHF radio with him.  He turns it on just in time to hear someone from the Petersburg Fire Department asking if anyone knew about a fire there.  My friend replies back that yes, this was his son-in-law's shop that was burning, but that everyone was OK, no lives were in danger.  They pretty much said they couldn't do anything since it was so far away (couldn't have responded in time), especially since no lives were in danger (although two dogs did die in the fire).  It's kind of a weird situation in a place like that: You have cell phone service, so you might call 911 for something like that, but whether fire/EMS/police will respond is debateable...most likely for police you'd get the State Troopers. 

We knew as soon as we found out that there were propane tanks, etc. exploding too.  Later that evening (Probably about 45 minutes later) a friend of my friend's (who called him about the fire) and I drove out to a location where we'd have been able to see the glow if it was big...all we saw was some lights from the friend with the Deuces' house, 7 miles away across open water (This shop was about 1/2 mile behind that).

Later, we did get a call from the friend with the Deuces that everyone was indeed OK, and that the fire had not spread to the son-in-law's house nearby. 

It was kind of shocking, considering I'd driven past that building (yes, me driving!) just a few hours before.

I spent much of the next day on the ferry heading for Sitka, (Was traveling anyway) calling around spreading updates.  With sketchy-at-best cell phone service of course. 

But that was one bad afternoon...the other 10 days I spent there before that were great, working on various projects, including working on Deuces quite a bit! I learned a LOT about those trucks.  Despite the fact that everything is kind of a pain, from the clutch pedal to the hood latches to the window crank handles, they're a blast to work on IMO.  Definitely sold on getting one, then upgrading to a newer, 5-ton version with an automatic transmission and power steering.

Go look in the "Learning How to Drive" thread, you'll get a good laugh out of how I started learning to drive LOL. 


Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on January 01, 2016, 11:47:03 PM
I've got a 6-lamp T12 electronic ballast (meant for signs).

GE makes a F32T8 6-lamp... just search eBay for GE632Max if you want to see it.
There's even a dimmable version of it :o

Sad to hear that place burned down, but good that nobody was  hurt or killed.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 02, 2016, 12:34:06 AM
See? I KNEW they had to exist...
Will your do F40T12s or F96T12s? Or is this HO or something?

Well, two dogs did die in the fire unfortunately...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 02, 2016, 07:44:08 PM
Yeah they exist, just not super common. I see two three lamp ballasts in six-lamp highbays most often.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 02, 2016, 07:45:29 PM
I like the simplicity of a ballast like that, but the redundancy just isn't there!

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 02, 2016, 10:18:53 PM
Yeah one ballast makes the fixture neater but the four lamp ballasts tend to fry easily so I can imagine the six lamp ones don't fare too well, especially in higher temperatures usually experienced 50ft up in a high bay ceiling.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on January 02, 2016, 10:26:24 PM
@GEsoftwhite100watts:
It says it'll run both standard and HO T12's anything from 2' to 10', as long as combined length is between 8 - 32 feet.
(HO's will ofcourse just run at brightness of a standard lamp though. I've never tried but I assume if you were to wire it for 2x overdrive on 3 lamps, it'd work nicely for HO lamps)

If I ever saw one of those GE632's go cheap on eBay, I'd be tempted to grab it. just because :lo:

A single 6-lamp ballast in a 6-lamp fixture would be nice for simplicity, but there is something to be said But there is something to be said for the redundancy of multiple (plus I have a feeling that a ballast with fewer lamps probably lasts a bit longer too .. 2-lamp would probably be ideal for life expectancy)


Sad that they lost the 2 dogs in the fire. Were they shop pets? Or guard dogs?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 02, 2016, 11:03:27 PM
Homestead dogs...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 06, 2016, 10:59:59 AM
Hey Xmaslightguy, you'll like this: I'm looking into getting a 1/2 watt FM transmitter to broadcast the music/audio from my computer around my property...

Reviews on Amazon claim as much as 1/2 mile range...which is not totally FCC legal but I doubt anyone will complain around here, with only one strong, local FM signal and one other weak/distant FM signal.  Though in a city I'd never do it, otherwise I'd probably have the FCC knocking on my door! I doubt it'd be an issue here though, and I'll test to make sure it doesn't interfere with the other signals AT ALL. 

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on January 06, 2016, 08:45:26 PM
@GEsoftwhite100watts:
Nice. And yep 1/2w would be way above limits ;D I think (and have heard) that even more important than 'power' is it doesn't interfere with any other signals (just like you are planning to test for) :)
Deff wouldn't be worth risking in(or near) city limits... although I know some of the people on various Christmas-Light forums have done it & had no issues.

I have one of those little battery-powered(also could run on USB) FM transmitters that are meant for connecting to a MP3 player & playing to the car-radio....Its been a number of years now since I last used it for this, but I used it to broadcast Christmas music so if people in cars sat watching the lights, they could also listen to music. LOL . It would give a clear signal 2-3 houses distance either way on the street (and spotty up to a block away)
Pretty good, considering I'm near a city with a pretty full FM band, and its less than 1/4w or whatever the FCC limit is (or atleast I assume its within limits since it was something bought at Target)

-----
Thinking of Target... I just got some xmas lights there yesterday for 90% off :)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 07, 2016, 10:39:07 AM
Just bought one...I think what they REALLY care about is signal strength in dBu, etc...AKA it doesn't interfere with anything else LOL...

The house I might live in while in college is on 6 acres in a pretty rural area, and from what I can guess, with a good rooftop Yagi antenna I'd probably get about 25 FM signals as it is (Not a totally full dial by any means but way more full than here) but my "own" wouldn't really interfere there either...house is kind of in the middle of nowhere.  There's about 6-7 local signals, but I think I should be able to get about 18 stations from Fairbanks (100+ miles away) with a good antenna above trees, etc.  (Flat terrain in that part of Alaska). 

It's good having a lot of stations up there, because at that latitude you can start to lose the SiriusXM satellite signal...so having about 25 FMs, many of them commercial, helps that.  May also have to install a radio in my vehicle...you know...one of THOSE kind of trucks...would like to get something that does RDS...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 07, 2016, 11:22:02 PM
So I got some free F40 lamps today from a LED conversion at a friend's house.  Two are GE-made Value-Bright (Old True Value light bulb brand) F40SP41s from between October '94 and October '03.  Well-used and banded but should work (Haven't brought them home yet to test, they're sitting at my unofficial storage/staging area).  A third is a GE 34w cool white Watt-Miser from the same area, with the F40CW ordering code IIRC...so before '03 for sure.  A fourth is a GE-made True Value brand F40CW/EE (GE Watt-Miser in disguise).  I remember all these lamps working in their prior locations, so they should work. 

Also got a .7a Robertson HPF ballast from the '90s.  Unfortunately, thanks to a LED conversion that requires the ballast be disconnected and the tombstones wire directly to the mains, the wires on one end (reds and blues) are cut off right at the case.  Ballast surgery time I guess...but nowadays I don't pass up ANY old school halophosphate or SP-series F40 lamps, or magnetic T12 ballasts, since none of those things are made anymore...

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: lightingfan8902 on January 08, 2016, 08:14:23 AM
Well I'm starting to put out some pics, and so far I got views on them. Soon, I'm getting some street lighting cause I'm going to get a American Electric Lighting 115 street light soon, and some other fixtures I'll be getting and posting very soon.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 08, 2016, 01:10:03 PM
Sweet!  I know a '70s GE 250w HPS M-400A that could be mine if I want it...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 08, 2016, 06:12:02 PM
Nice! The AEL lights are pretty decent. And the very late 70s- mid 80s M-400A Andy has is a nice one too.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: lightingfan8902 on January 08, 2016, 08:20:55 PM
Nah, I'll just get one at eBay.  Maybe I'll get a 100w HPS lamp fixture.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 08, 2016, 09:40:45 PM
If you're buying off eBay,  Maybe a GE would interest you?  (http://www.ebay.com/itm/GE-Luminaire-M250R2-Outdoor-Street-Light/151903108136?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140602152332%26meid%3D68e414d452a444479e46bd3fe92af96c%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D301744321625) They're made a little better than AEL fixtures.

 If you're on a budget, this AEL 115 is pretty decently priced but it's FCO with the painted reflector.  (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Roadway-Light-100-Watt-HPS-120-208-240-277-V-New-in-Box/171998617371?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131003132420%26meid%3D970abcff24314ce08c0469d9f0acee79%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D351611581102)

 Here's a cool (but expensive!) AEL 315. It's 175W MH/MV that comes with both NEMA tags and a drop lens, but no PC socket.  (http://www.ebay.com/itm/American-Electric-Lighting-LUM-MV-175W-/321963555089?hash=item4af685f911:g:cbEAAOSwK7FWhdvT) I guess you win some you loose some lol.

Those are the best listings I can find. It's amazing how there are multiple 115s and M-250R2s listed on eBay and some are prices at $50 and others are priced as high as  over $500!  (http://www.ebay.com/itm/GE-M2RR25S0A1GMS3-250W-LUMINAIRE-ROADWAY-LIGHTING-NEW-/401020859843?hash=item5d5eb4b5c3:g:sS0AAOSwo6lWNjXn)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: lightingfan8902 on January 08, 2016, 09:52:47 PM
How did you do that with out displaying the website link?

P.S. Now you showed it to me, I think I might get the one which is $20.00 or the MV or MH AEL 315 fixture for $95.00 cause that one I get free shipping out of that fixture, and plus soon thinking of putting a project in hand, maybe if I get the parts at Homedepot to make a Photocell controlled outlet box. Which it can control street lighting which fixtures don't have a photocell, and or it can control christmas lighting, but its not built yet, and haven't even get the parts to build it. Once its done though, I'll post it.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 09, 2016, 09:48:20 AM
The coding for weblinks is (url=URL HERE] Enter the Text You Want Displayed Here [/url] {just change the "(" to "[" at the beginning}.

Yeah the 315 is cool since MV and probe start MH fixtures will never be made again.

I made a photocell-controlled outlet with a twist-lock photocell socket. It's mounted to a 2X4 plank. It's got a 15ft cord on it to power it, has a duplex outlet, and has the twist-lock PC on top. I use it for Christmas lighting and at parties. I've considered making versions with a wire-on photocell to sell to others. I think the twist-lock PC is "too much" for the average person lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: lightingfan8902 on January 09, 2016, 12:26:34 PM
Does yours have a GFCI Outlet, cause mine will have a GFCI outlet.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 09, 2016, 07:53:08 PM
I added a light fixture today.  A vintage-but-as-far-as-I-know NOS Bakelite pullchain fixture, ironically wired to a modern blue Carlon box and '90s white Romex (leftover stuff I salvaged from a house teardown), and also ironically lamped with a modern Feit-made (Western Family branded) 13w 6500K Curly Fry Lamp.  Now I can see the gas fill on one of my generators...no more guesswork fumbling around in the dark! 

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 09, 2016, 10:44:40 PM
No it doesn't and I suggest you don't use one either. If you use a GFCI outlet on it, you can't plug it into a GFCI-protected circuit (so you can't use it outside; unless you have a really old house without GFCIs outside). If you use a GFCI on a GFCI they will interfere with each other. So don't use a GFCI if you plan to use this outdoors.

Ah you added a light! My mom's mom's and step-dad's basement was pretty underlit with four pullchains with 60W incandescents. I replaced the lamps with 100W= halogens and added a 5th light down there so it's brighter (but now uses a lot of electricity lol). CFLs give my grandma headaches apparently (i think it's all in her head, no pun intended, but CFLs base-up is a bad idea anyway...) and LEDs are too expensive. I've asked if they wanted me to install fluorescents down there but they said no. If it was my basement I'd add fluorescent lights and have them switch-controlled. I don't like pull-chains. I want the area lit before I walk into it. What's the point of the pullchain when you have the fumble in the dark looking for it?!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: lightingfan8902 on January 09, 2016, 10:50:06 PM
Yeah I can see why that I have to use a regular standard duplex outlet for it.

But anyway, at hardware stores, they don't have a photocell receptacle socket, so I may have to use one of those stem mounted photocells.

I was also thinking of making the same thing, but with a four gang back box with two duplexes.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 10, 2016, 02:05:38 PM
Yeah you have to order the PC socket online at a place like  this.  (https://www.lightbulbsurplus.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1710&gclid=Cj0KEQiAn8i0BRDur-HV1PCTy4UBEiQAPuFr9HTGtqSVg4duwvmmctEaTgP-yuWvr2qfJrRSmqB8Or4aAojm8P8HAQ) Or you could try eBay. Get one with the gray piece on it that allows it to mount to a box.

You mean two-gang box? A four-gang box would have four duplex receptacles (eight outlets total). A Two-gang box could be useful but one gang is plenty for me.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: lightingfan8902 on January 10, 2016, 03:07:37 PM
Just saying I might make one with two gang, so you can control more lighting with its own photocell.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 10, 2016, 05:18:27 PM
No matter what you can't exceed the rating the photocell, which is generally 1000W with twist-locks. With a single duplex receptacle, I can control all my Christmas lights, which is about 400-500 watts (and still have one outlet unused)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: lightingfan8902 on January 10, 2016, 06:45:05 PM
I guess the maximum of Volt Amps (VA) on a photocell is only 1800VA, on a twist lock though.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 10, 2016, 07:24:05 PM
The max wattage is 1000W. It's only 1800W for resistive loads (incandescent lamps). 1000W for everything else.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: lightingfan8902 on January 10, 2016, 07:26:53 PM
Oh ok, I was just saying on a ballast.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 10, 2016, 09:13:46 PM
For a ballast it's 1000W Make sure to include ballasts losses too. Do you have any twist-lock photocells?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: lightingfan8902 on January 10, 2016, 09:18:56 PM
No, but I seen them in hardware stores.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on January 11, 2016, 10:26:20 PM
@Mike: That AEL 115 that that linked to on the last page was a bit tempting. I just really don't have space for much more so I didn't get it...

@GEsoftwhite100watts: LOL at your term of "6500K Curly Fry Lamp" :)

--------------
I really dislike those pullchain fixtures.. I can remember before the basement was finished it had 4 of those (not near enough light).
We eventually put up some shoplights (just plugged into the stupid pullchain things)
Eventually the pull-switch inside them started breaking, usually than meant they'd just not work anymore, but one literally shorted out...after that I got up there and installed a lightswitch in its place (yep a switch on the ceiling!..only 7.5-foot ceiling, so I could reach it) then an outlet wired off that. (also had gotten more shoplights, so put a strip all the way across the basement.)
Other side of the basement got a strip of shoplights too, those wired off a switch on the stairs.

{ofcourse all that was removed when it came time to finish the basement into liveable space}

--------------
I went in to Lowes today to check out their 85% off sale on Christmas, didn't get any Christmas lights...But I got some Sylvania F96T8's on clearance for 95 cents for a 2-pack!
(so instead of Christmas lights I came out of the store with fluorescents, something I wasn't even looking for)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: lightingfan8902 on January 11, 2016, 10:48:24 PM
Yeah, well some lamp fixtures have pull chains.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 11, 2016, 11:15:54 PM
I've seen that before too:  4' shoplights plugged into pullchain sockets via an outlet adapter and grounding adapter (Of course not grounded LOL).  In one case, they even later wired ANOTHER fixture to that pullchain, via the shoplight. 

I did one in my pantry where I replaced a 4" globe light with a duplex outlet and plugged in a F40/RS shoplight.  Only issue is, the plug on the light itself isn't grounded, so starting is finnicky if it's humid (Even though it's a nice post-PCB Universal Therm-O-Matic full-power ballast).  I plan to eventually snip the plug and hardwire it into the box.

I also have a Lithonia 2XF20T12 striplight over my desk (Lit as I type this) that I have wired to a 2-prong cord (Should really be 3 prong in reality) and even though it's plugged in I still installed a pullchain switch so I can turn it on and off without plugging in/unplugging. 

I'd rather put a nice 4' fixture there but don't have any yet...and it's kinda outside-ish so it'd rust (Outside and under a roof but not enclosed).  But it gets no direct rain so exposed Romex, a blue Carlon box, and a pullchain is fine.  I would have installed a switch but didn't have the extra supplies.  I may do so later...those pullchains like to eventually break off.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 12, 2016, 08:22:15 PM
Oh wow they sell F96T8s at your Lowe's? I can't find T8 tubes over 4ft around here. I think Home Depot sells them in cases of Altos.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on January 12, 2016, 10:20:12 PM
@Mike:
Yep, the Lowes stores here have F96T8s, as do the Home Depot stores (think I saw some in an Ace Hardware too) :)
(just slimlines though, and only 4100k, nobody sells the F96T8 HO version)

I'd love to find a F96T8 Daylight if such even exists.


@GEsoftwhite100watts:
I've wired 2 shoplights together & plugged it into a pullchain socket via an outlet adapter (in the past, no such setups exist now LOL)
On most fixtures I use a 2-prong cord (unless its mounted somewhere)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: lightingfan8902 on January 13, 2016, 08:50:24 AM
Anyway, I'm going to see if I can make that photocell controlled outlet box, and then post it here, and in Lighting gallery.net.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 13, 2016, 11:41:08 PM
So Mike, guess what?  I might be doing "Ballast Surgery" sometime in the future, when I have time.  I acquired a post-EPACT .7a-but-HPF Robertson F40/RS that unfortunately has its wires cut short thanks to an LED tube retrofit at someone's house.  Did you ever successfully replace the leads on your 1940s GE preheat ballast? If so, can you offer ideas/suggestions? I've been asking around.  Luke (LG member DetroitTwoStroke) offered some suggestions already but I'm still asking around from those who have attempted it already. 

BTW, your comment on Flickr made my laugh my @$$ off!  Did you see my response?  Did you think/assume this was my vehicle?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 14, 2016, 05:10:41 PM
Ah good luck! No I never got around to fixing that GE ballast. It needs to be totally rewound; something I'm not up for doing. The coils were originally insulated with paper, which turned to black dust when I opened the case up. The worn insulation was the least of my problems lol. I still have the ballast but don't have any plans for it. Even if I rewound it and fixed it all up, I have no way of testing it to make sure it works properly other than to toss a lamp on it and visually look to see if the lamp looks way overdriven or if it's not being driven at full power.

From what I've gathered, just get a cheap soldering kit and then just solder the new wires to the coils. You could also try and crimp it. Crimps don't always work well with solid wire, but they sell special ground wire crimps for connecting ground wires, which is what they used in my house (so all our ground wires are permanently bonded together)

No I didn't see your response. :-\
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: lightingfan8902 on January 14, 2016, 06:42:06 PM
Well I just made a low voltage photocell that inputs 12VDC and it works. I'll probably post it soon. Its in one of those DIY (Do it yourself) project boxes, its not done just yet, its going to need a rubber or some type of material that can keep the water away from the circuit, and plus going in from the box.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 16, 2016, 09:50:41 PM
My SainSonic 1/2 watt FM transmitter arrived today from Amazon!  It was simple to set up, I was unboxed and on-air within probably five minutes or less.  It defaults to 98.0 Mhz when powered up initially, the exact center of the FM band, but I have it set to 92.5 Mhz.  Conveniently at the low end of the dial, with the other two FM signals here (One weak one on 91.1 and one strong local on 91.9).  I did it very by-the-book, with two empty channels between mine and the adjacent channel.  (Closest used channel to what I'm using, 92.5, is 91.9, so 92.1 and 92.3 are empty).  I checked and no interference as far as I can tell.  I believe I'm still on the low (Legal LOL) setting, haven't tried high yet.  We'll see how that does.  On what must be low, it's slightly less coverage-wise than a SiriusXM car unit we had.  (Slightly poorer coverage, I did a quick walk around the house/yard up/down the road both ways to see how far it went). We'll try high power later. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 17, 2016, 10:17:12 AM
Anyone here know how to wire up an arduino with a real-time clock to control a relay with normally-open contacts?

I'm thinking of making my own Master Clock for my Simplex clock. Basically, it's going to be a set of controls that will send 120V through a wire to the clock(s) at a specific time each hour for either 8 or 14 seconds. So the unit will need to have a real-time clock in order to keep precisely accurate time. The RTC indirectly controls what time the wall clocks will show. The wall clock keeps time on its own but the RTC is what sends the correction signals (120V pulse for 8 or 14 seconds) so the RTC has the last say in what the time is. If the RTC isn't accurate, it will make the wall clocks inaccurate.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on January 17, 2016, 11:10:30 AM
GEsoftwhite100watts:
Nice!
Always best to start at the lowest power setting & see how that works .LOL.
Can you select any 'normal' FM frequency to transmit on, or does it have a limited range.

@Mike:
What is an Arduino anyway? its only lately that I've started seeing that word pop up. Is it sorta like a Raspberry-Pi or something?
But on the question.. it should be pretty easy, or  if Arduino is like Raspberry-Pi you should be able to you can just get a relay-module designed for it

(LOL. if I knew how the outputs worked, I could probably do myself it using a SSR(solid-state relay))
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 17, 2016, 03:06:00 PM
@ xmas: I honestly don't know lol. It's some sort of "brain" i.e. a microcontroller of sorts. I don't know anything about electronics so I don't know how to build it but Joe347v (member here) mentioned that I could probably build one using a Arduino controlled by a real-time clock to switch a relay to momentarily close the circuit for either 8 or 14 seconds. No idea how to build it though. :-[
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 17, 2016, 03:32:19 PM
So I tried the full 1/2 watt today...

It's SCARY how far that thing goes!  Definitely not entirely part-15 compliant LOL.  Let it suffice to say it has a listenable/usable (but some static) signal 1/2 mile away!

AFAIK it can do whatever frequency on "Low" (I originally had it set to 92.5) but on "High" it seems to go between 88.1 and 91.2.  So I have it set at 88.1.  Just as well anyway, the aircraft comm band starts at 108Mhz and the old-now-disused analog TV/audio band starts at 87 and below, so if for any reason it caused interference I'd rather be broadcasting into something that's no longer used, ESPECIALLY around here, than into the aircraft band, if, say, I was transmitting on 107.9 and it had some "bleed-over".   For ethical reasons (Life safety there!) AND because I don't want the FCC police knocking on my door.  I'd never use it on high power in a city-type area with a normally-ish packed FM dial either...but here I doubt anyone will care. 

Audio processing is good, and it's in stereo!  (Thankfully!).  Even the threshold for losing stereo signal is very low, so it stays in stereo most of the time with a weak-ish signal from what I can tell. 

I had it set to high while running an errand, so I could go about my business wearing one of those FM headset radios (3M Tekk WorkTunes) and see how far the signal went...and was surprised!  By the time I was heading back to the house, I was thinking "Gee, what is this doing to my house battery bank?". First thing I checked when I got back home...still like it wasn't even on.  The metal heatsinked case doesn't get hot either from what I can tell.

I'll post pics in the off-topic section and maybe a YouTube vid with a range demonstration once I find my (misplaced currently) camera. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 17, 2016, 09:28:59 PM
I changed frequencies again to 89.9 since 1/2 a watt on 88.1 was interfering with a SiriusXM radio we have that also broadcasts, and is set to 88.3.  89.9 is nice and far away from that!


I never thought I'd see the day I'd hit the "Seek" button and have it stop on three strong signals in my house!!  ;D  ("Usually" it's just one).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 18, 2016, 11:41:38 AM
Ran it on low last night.  Just fine for just in the house, albeit a little hissy with electronic-ballasted F32T8s also on.  (I turned those off).  Still playing with the signal volume/modulation a bit to get it just right...it's still a little bit off...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on January 18, 2016, 09:31:00 PM
@GEsoftwhite100watts:
Nice.
I'm not surprised you get a half-mile out of it being that you're in such an 'open' area
(I wonder how far I'd get here LOL ... maybe 1/4 mile at night? I am on a small hill so that'd probably help (not that I'd want to risk running it at full power....)

LOL the 'seek' button would get you a bunch of stops if you tried it here (I've never even counted the stations) LOL you'd probably love checking all those out!

Yep electronic ballasts don't play nice with broadcasting.
I know then I had that little transmitter setup years ago, after originally getting it in place and going to test on another stereo in the house, I found there was a horrid high-pitch buzz in the background ... which after a bit I figured out was the T5 (either F28 or F54 I don't remember) ballast in the same room as the transmitter. Turn that off, and a perfect clear signal.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on January 18, 2016, 09:53:43 PM
@Mike:
I'm guessing Arduino probably is similar to a Raspberry Pi then (the Pi is actually a pretty powerful unit for such a small board, I've seen some pretty impressive things dome with it)

I know some with electronics(which isn't allot, but enough) that if I knew what the outputs were doing (like say its like a computer where a 1/on just gives +5v ) then I could build a SSR
(I actually have something I built to control xmas lights that said in a simple way is just 8 SSR's connected to the printerport of a old windows PC. Then there's a program I made to read a data file for what to turn on/off, and at what speed/pattern/etc)

----
You can get a pre-built relay unit cheap on eBay that just plugs into the Arduino or Raspberry Pi (I remember seeing them fairly recently..so that would be the easy way :) ). RTC is same type of thing, just a plug-in board.
 
The hard part would be programming the Arduino (I have no idea what language it uses or anything)
But I guess the program itself would be fairly simple, just read time off the RTC every so often, then at the correct times, turn on the relay for the correct amount of time.


-----
I'm curious as to how the clock 'knows' what to time sync to? Is it just based on the length of the pulse?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on January 18, 2016, 10:07:19 PM
I fired up a pair of those Sylvania F96T8's tonight I got cheap at Lowes last week.
Not impressed :( ...
They take forever to warm up. when I first turned it on, they were bright at the very ends and really dim & pink in the center (like a mercury-starved lamp in color...just like so many crappy modern lamps look on startup)
A half hour later, the dim-center was smaller, but still dim.
Now after running for just over 2 hours they look like they've mercury migrated :o weird. I didn't know slimlines could do that.
..I think I'm gonna take one out, flip it around and see if it migrates back the other way LOL

wonder how long (or if) it'll take for them to light normal?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 18, 2016, 10:24:53 PM
 Here's a pretty good comparison article of the two.  (http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/arduino-vs-raspberry-pi/)

Basically what the Arduino will do is read the RTC and at the times it is supposed to, tell the relay to close the circuit (just one 120V wire; the neutral is shared by the constant 120V hot to the clock motor, which is no involved with the electronics at all). I'm going to have an LCD display (I'm thinking a 16X2 character display) that will show the time on top and date on the bottom. It will have buttons for setting the time & date and for disabling the scheduled pulses.

Yeah IDK how to program the unit. Joe is helping me (member joe_347v) with a wiring schematic for it. I agree, it shouldn't be anything too complicated.

As for the wall clocks, an 8-second pulse makes the clock advance to the 59th minute and 0 seconds of whatever hour it's currently displaying. Because the pulse is sent at 57min 54sec Master Clock Time, when the clock reaches 59min 00sec, it's 59min 00sec Master Clock Time too. If the clock reached 59:00 before the Master Clock, the clock will freeze until the Master "catches up" with the wall clock. The 8-second pulse every hour keeps the minute and second hands accurate (if they're already accurate nothing happens).

Then twice a day at 5:57:54 (AM & PM) a 14-second pulse is sent. When this occurs, the clock will set itself to 5:59:00. The length of this can vary between a minute to 11 minutes depending how far off the clock is. If the clock is an hour ahead, it will take about 11 minutes. When 12-hour correction is completed, the hour hand is correct and then the hourly corrections (8 second pulses) will correct the minute and second hands the following hour (6:57:54). Once the clock is set to the right time it generally stays at that time and doesn't really need any corrections. My Simplex clock has been running over a month with no correction pulses and it's keeping perfect time. The only time there's a problem is when the power goes out or a new clock is installed to replace a dead one (and therefore the new clock is way off).

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wow strange effects with the 96T8s. Are they in a cold area or in a heated area? The Sylvania F32T8s start dim like that so I can only imagine the effect is magnified with their 8ft lamps. GE's the way to go with linear fluorescents I guess lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on January 18, 2016, 11:46:00 PM
Interesting article! I was guessing that the difference was something like that.

I'm guessing you'd use the 'C' programming language for it
Cool that joe_347v can help :)

Neat little way those clocks work.
And LOL because if I wanted I could use a single channel from one of my xmas-light controllers to operate it

-------
Yeah, odd with those F96T8s. I wasn't expecting that. The one I flipped around is looking almost normal, the other is still migrated. I think I'm just gonna leave it on overnight & see what happens...
They are in a spare bedroom, so normal room temp. Just a normal electronic IS ballast too.

There's some Sylvania F32T8s at work, and _every_ time they start out dim-center.

I've got a pair of GE F96T8s, and they are way better than the Sylvania's from what I've seen so far, they're also better than the 1 alto F96T8 I have (not surprising there LOL)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: lightingfan8902 on January 19, 2016, 09:00:27 AM
Well, I just went to H.E.B store at my city, and they have light bulbs, a bunch of them, and they even have their generic brand. Plus, I'm thinking of getting that AEL 115 series street light.

Plus I went to downtown Tomball Texas and the street lights I saw were the Crouse Hinds L250 Street Light fixtures, bad thing about it, is that they weren't mercury vapor, they were high pressure sodium lights, of 250W I believe. Then the rest was the the Crouse Hinds OVM, AEL 125, and some of the AEL 115 series.

Also, I'm thinking of spending my Homedepot Gift card on some projects I'm going to make. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 19, 2016, 04:14:12 PM
Yeah the clock itself does all the work. Just supply a constant 120V wire for the motor, a second 120V wire that gets powered for either 8 or 14 seconds per hour, and then a neutral to complete the two circuits. And the ground...



What's HEB store? ??? The Cooper L-150 and L-250 were actually designed by Westinghouse and were actually intended to be used with HPS. I'm pretty sure the trimmed housing was to make the lights cost less to make the new HPS tech more affordable to consumers. They're cool lights. I'd love to get an L-150. Don't care much about getting an L-250 since it's basically just a bigger L-150 and the squared lens on the L-150s looks better than the rounded lens on the L-250s.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: lightingfan8902 on January 19, 2016, 04:30:00 PM
A H.E.B store is a grocery store, basically like a Kroger grocery store, where food is sold there, and plus other stuff.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 19, 2016, 05:48:10 PM
Ah I see.

 Here's a video I made of one of the Simplex clocks in correction mode.  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2HEveT7xeI&feature=youtu.be)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: lightingfan8902 on January 19, 2016, 07:24:27 PM
I love motorized clocks!  ;D Those are better than battery ones. Plus you could put them on a Battery Back-up power strip, to keep the clock moving, during a power outage.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 19, 2016, 08:06:28 PM
This one is a synchronous-wired clock so it's not like a regular plug-in clock. These are for use in buildings that has a synchronized clock system with all the clocks hardwired to a Master Clock, which controls the time. A regular electric clock just had a cord that plugs into the wall and has a knob right on the clock to adjust the time. I'm in the process of designing a cabinet that can control the sync-wired clocks without having a "real" Master Clock, which can cost in the ballpark of $1000. :o
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: lightingfan8902 on January 19, 2016, 08:11:03 PM
So it has to go on a master clock panel, not by it self.  ???  welp, I guess the master clock panel has to have battery back up, inorder to get along with the time, during a power outage.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 19, 2016, 08:29:29 PM
Yes, the Master has an approximately 7-day battery backup. The clocks themselves do not operate in a power outage but when the power comes back on, they will correct themselves within 12 hours via the correction pulses sent by the Master. My home-made panel will not have a battery back up that intense. The RTC board I'll be using has a lithium-ion rechargeable cell though, so it will "remember" the time during the outage and not require resetting. But the clocks themselves do not have any sort of backup. So they'll pick up where they left off and then the Master will correct them by 5:57:54 AM or PM, whichever comes first. Unless the power was out less than an hour, in which case the clock will correct itself at 57min 54sec of the first hour after the power comes back (so if power went out at 3:06 came back on at 3:26, the clocks will all be 10 minutes slow until 3:57:54, when the Master sends it hourly correction signal, at which time the clocks will all be corrected to the right time.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: lightingfan8902 on January 19, 2016, 08:38:53 PM
Hmm, what happens if the power goes out and stays out for at least a day, would that the clocks correct it self by a day?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 19, 2016, 08:45:26 PM
I should have worded what I said better. If the power comes back on and the clock is within one hour slow of the real time (AM or PM; aka if the real time is 4PM, the time on the clocks must be no earlier than 3PM) than the clock will reset itself in one hour. If the clock is more than an hour slow than the real time, it won't be correct until the real time is 5:57:54. It doesn't matter if the power is out for a day or three days. Once the power comes back on, if the wall clocks don't match the Master Clock, the wall clocks will correct themselves. It's 1950s "magic" lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: lightingfan8902 on January 19, 2016, 08:50:52 PM
Nice!  :D and exactly, how did you make that homemade master clock panel?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 19, 2016, 08:54:46 PM
The one I mentioned about the batter back-up hasn't been made yet but the one in the video is a simple push-button. Very cheap and easy way to do it but the downside is that I have to manually do the corrections when the clock is off. So if the clock gets on the wrong time somehow, I have to press the button for 8 seconds or 14 seconds at exactly the right time for it to work right. I could just unplug the clock and wait for it to be right and plug it back in but that's no fun lol.

the new thing I'm designing will be remote (separate from the box the clock is mounted to) and will automatically send the pulses at the correct times so my clock will set itself automatically like it would on a real system. And if I get more clocks, I can wire them all to the new thing I'm making so the one computer box can control as many as 50 clocks!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: lightingfan8902 on January 19, 2016, 08:58:26 PM
So, a push button? Is it there like a controller connected to that push button, or by itself?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 19, 2016, 09:05:43 PM
The push button, when I push it, sends 120V to the correction bracket in the clock. When I hold it for 8 seconds at 57min 54sec of any given hour, it's just like the Master Clock. The Master clock sends the 120V too. the difference is that I am manually pushing the button instead of a computer controlling a relay to do the same thing. the Master Clock makes the wall clocks essentially maintenance-free. It also makes it more convenient too, since with the push-button switch, I need to push it at the exact time. with the Master Clock I'm building, it will send the pulses automatically so when daylight savings time begins I just type in the correct time on the Master Clock's keypad and the master will correct the wall clocks for me. And if there's a power outage, the Master will also correct the wall clocks for me. That way I don't need to waste time hanging out by the clock waiting for 57min 54sec.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: lightingfan8902 on January 19, 2016, 09:10:40 PM
Oh ok, and btw I made a video on my homemade photocell a low voltage version.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdBRpAobwzs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdBRpAobwzs)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 19, 2016, 09:12:08 PM
very cool!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: lightingfan8902 on January 19, 2016, 09:14:38 PM
Yeah basicly like a switch, on the switch side you can put 120V on it. The load amps on it is 10Amps, so that means on 12V the lamp load is 120W, and on 120V its 1200W. So this could actually turn on a 100W HPS fixture or a 175W mercury vapor light. Plus I may put the circuit board into a waterproof backbox, for outdoor operation.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 19, 2016, 09:21:04 PM
Another thing that sometimes screws up synched clocks is the transition to/from daylight savings time! (It must take 12 hours to "fix" itself?)

Yeah, the Sylvania F32T8s and F40T12s sometimes do that, every darn time!

It's funny you should mention electronic ballasts and home FM transmitters, because I will say that 1/2 mile away at my place of employment the building's electronically-ballasted F32T8 fluorescent lights make my "Radio station" almost unlistenable, but it's an OK-but-marginal signal outside.   (Instantly switches into full stereo the second you walk out the door, etc). 

I've been leaving it on full power, and I doubt anyone will complain, or really even notice!  (If they do, great, if not that's even better). 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: lightingfan8902 on January 19, 2016, 09:26:19 PM
So, this means I'm going to make a photocell controlled outlet box (high voltage photocell) and post it, and see it in operation!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 19, 2016, 11:09:51 PM
@ Andy; when DST begins/ends you either set the Master one hour ahead or one hour behind. Either way, the wall clocks will keep operating at the same time until the next time the master reads 5:57:54 (either AM or PM, whichever comes first) and THEN the clocks will change to the correct time between 1 and 11 minutes depending if it's moving forward an hour or "backward" an hour (aka forward 11 hours, since analog clocks can't go backwards). The part where the clocks actually change time is pretty fast. It just has to wait until 5:57:54 to do so, which is why I said it can take up to 12 hours (because if you change the master at 5:45 AM, you'll have to wait until 5:57:54 PM before the wall clocks change their time.

So if you change the master's time at 9PM on the night the clocks change, the sync-wired clocks will technically be an hour off for four hours unless you initiate a few hourly corrections to push the clock ahead so that it's within an hour behind the real time, then the clock will correct itself within the hour. So if I set the clocks back one hour from 12:17 to 11:17, I can do a manual 1-hour correction 11 times to get to 10:59. Then at 11;57:54 Master Clock time, the Master will send the 8-second pulse out. Because the minute hands will be off, the wall clocks will then advance to 11:59:00 and "freeze" for like 20 seconds until the Master "catches up" to them. But if you just change the master's hour and don't initiate manual corrections, the clock won't initiate any corrections until 5:57:54 because the minute and second hands will still be accurate.

The Master doesn't actually "know" what time the wall clocks are displaying. All the master knows is what time the clocks are supposed to read. The Master sends the hourly and 12-hour corrections whether the clocks are right or wrong. If the wall clocks are off, they'll correct themselves. If the wall clocks match the time of the master, nothing happens. Each clock works independently too, so if one clock reads 7:18 and another reads 9:39 and the real time is 4:03, when 5:57:54 rolls around both clocks will set to 5:59. The first clock will take two minutes longer than the second clock. Both clocks will now display the correct hour but will have to wait until 6:57:54 for the minute and second hands to be calibrated. After that, the clocks are true!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: lightingfan8902 on January 20, 2016, 12:36:30 PM
Well, anyway I'm thinking of getting a Westinghouse street light maybe a OV15 something like that. But the OV25, meh maybe I will get that to, if it comes up at eBay.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 20, 2016, 02:29:38 PM
I'd love to get an OV-15. Old fixtures are hard to find though. You have to be at the right place at the right time.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: lightingfan8902 on January 20, 2016, 04:57:26 PM
Do sometimes restores have them?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 20, 2016, 08:10:53 PM
Maybe, but not as likely as you'd think.  I'd like to find an OV15 or OV25 someday myself.  Or, better yet, a RMA-10 NEMA head. (Preferably 100w or 175w mercury).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: lightingfan8902 on January 20, 2016, 08:12:18 PM
So were do you get them, on eBay its rarely seen in the listings.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 20, 2016, 09:21:27 PM
It depends on the store. Ian (owner of this site) had gotten numerous lights at his local restores in Colorado. I've only found fluorescent fixtures at my local restore.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: lightingfan8902 on January 20, 2016, 09:24:21 PM
Nah, I'll just wait for one on ebay.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 30, 2016, 10:36:46 PM
Well, I know I'm going to get flak for this, but I just bought one of those despised-even-by-me 2-lamp PAR motion-sensor lights on Amazon.  Despite hating them, the single 13w CFL running dusk to dawn is becoming too much of a draw on my almost-shot-but-I-can't-afford-to-replace-them-until-they-totally-die house battery bank, being off-grid.  I'll see if 23w CFLs do OK, but if not, I'll use 72w halogens or 100w incandescents.   
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 30, 2016, 10:57:02 PM
Also contemplating putting the Philips 8.5w 2700K A-line LEDs in the motion light, PROVIDED it works with CFLs/LEDs...some don't. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on January 31, 2016, 07:11:13 PM
If it were me, I'd go with the LEDs over CFL...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 31, 2016, 10:32:51 PM
Same thought process here.  Instant-on/instant-full-brightness and not affected negatively by frequent switching cycles. 

Worst come to worse though I'll stick 72w halogens in (Not planning on using PARs since I need the light to be more widely distributed).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: lightingfan8902 on January 31, 2016, 10:50:37 PM
Oh, and I post this video, of this small LED wall pack (one of them in my neighborhood), is going EOL.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyO-hbE6chA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyO-hbE6chA)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 01, 2016, 07:53:53 PM
^ Some of the LED reflector lamps in the recessed cans around the perimeter of the store and in the vestibules act like that.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 02, 2016, 12:06:23 AM
Still working at that supermarket, Mike?

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 02, 2016, 06:36:05 AM
Yes.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: lightingfan8902 on February 02, 2016, 10:22:22 AM
Hey, I'm going to drive a car soon!  ;D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 02, 2016, 05:00:25 PM
Sweet! Driving is fun! :D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 02, 2016, 08:50:15 PM
I enjoy driving as well.  I'm 18 and only JUST started learning LOL. 

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: lightingfan8902 on February 02, 2016, 10:39:08 PM
Oh ok, going to get my permit soon.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 02, 2016, 11:48:00 PM
I've had my learner's permit since June.  I could've had it at 14 but I'm currently living in a place with no cars so I haven't needed it!   ;D  A friend I visited at Christmas finally taught me.

That's changing though. I'm moving into a city (Fairbanks, AK) in August. 

Hey Mike, how did you originally learn? (I'm curious).  I first practiced on dirt roads in 6" of snow, with ice underneath that.  Good for training yourself to NOT use the brakes for a panic stop!  The guy I was with just had us swap places on this dirt road: "Gotta start somewhere!"

Another teachable moment (though I wasn't the one driving) was with the same guy.  In a Deuce and a Half with no working brakes.  In 8" of snow.  On mostly-downhill unpaved roads.  One's gear-shifting skills can prevail there!  He was explaining all about them to me as we drove.  He even quizzed me:  What if another car came? (It was a private road though).  (What to do).  There are ways of stopping yourself other than brakes, especially with a stick shift. 

Laughing yet? It gets better:

My first time driving a stick shift was roll-starting (or trying to I should say) a Deuce and a Half set up as a fuel tanker.  With no hill in the vicinity, I had someone towing me around with a material handler as I steered.  It was terrifying actually...second time I'd driven a vehicle no less.  They have no power steering (the universal joke about these trucks is that they have "Armstrong Steering").  I couldn't keep it straight to save my life.  I wish there was video of it somewhere. 

I even tried driving the material handler, towing the Deuce around, but that was even more nerve-racking.  (I even had the accelerator pedal get jammed!). 



The hardest part about a stick is the clutch.  Once you have that down, it's not so bad.  I had to have the clutch explained to me about 10 times in a row! 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 04, 2016, 08:19:11 PM
I've had my license since November 2014. Gotta renew it this May. My dad used to let me drive around in cemeteries. My parents' logic must've been that I couldn't kill people who were already dead lol. I really never had to "learn" how to drive since any moron can drive an automatic transmission sedan lol. If I started out like you did with manual transmission and bigger vehicles I'm sure I would have needed intensive training lol. I took driving lessons, but it was mainly for insurance purposes (lowers it substantially) and so I wouldn't be rusty for the road test.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 04, 2016, 10:07:47 PM
LOL...the worst you could do was run over a headstone I guess?  I was going to learn in the church parking lot but I wasn't up to it that day.  (I was like 15 at that point).  Only thing that got run over during my informal a-friend-taught-me-on-private-property driver's ed course was a 6' fiberglass stepladder, which got backed over by my friend in a material handler.  I'll get to why shortly...

FIRST thing I ever drove (Well, I've driven other non-highway vehicles for years) was a Dodge Ram 1500 pickup.  It was a piece of cake to drive.  SECOND-EVER time behind the wheel (Well, I lied, third actually, since I sat in the driver's seat of a friend's 5-ton '85 AM General army surplus dump truck, but didn't actually drive it)  was, yup, in a Deuce and a Half.  Manual transmission and larger vehicle for sure.  First time ever driving a stick shift too.  The hardest part is the clutch.  (It's also really stiff on a truck that size, it takes a LOT of effort to push in).  I was being towed around a parking lot by a material handler since we were trying to roll-start the Deuce (Bad batteries).  For the first "lap" I had the clutch pushed IN (Me being stupid LOL).  Remember the stepladder?  It was laying there in the parking lot and got flattened by the material handler (not me driving though) although I was simultaneously making an idiot out of myself in the Deuce, being towed by the material handler.  I couldn't keep it straight LOL.  No power steering=hard to steer, especially not under its own power!  It was a good experience though.  I learned a lot about these trucks.  I now know my basic way around them in person now.  They're fun to drive and work on IMO.  If you ever get the chance to ride along in one or get behind the wheel of one, take it!  Despite being loud, rattly, rough-riding, and everything requiring more muscle to operate, from door handles to window cranks to the clutch pedal, they're fun to drive. 

I plan on official driver's ed once I enter college and am living somewhere with cars.  Well worth it IMO.  Then I'll probably not rush out and get my first little Sedan either.  Save the $$$ for when I find a good deal on a surplus Deuce or 5 ton, even as a non-runner/project, then work it over.  Won't drive until it's roadworthy...well I'll probably drive other vehicles  but not any of my own until then.  I'll possibly be living about 1hr40min from the university campus, and will stay in the dorms during the week, and will arrange carpooling or something for the weekend. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on February 04, 2016, 10:45:18 PM
Quote from: GEsoftwhite100watts
  They're fun to drive and work on IMO.  If you ever get the chance to ride along in one or get behind the wheel of one, take it!
Probably would be cool to get the chance to ride in something like that...I wouldn't attempt to drive the beast though LOL

------------------
First car I ever tried driving was a 66 Mustang. First thing I did was stall it LOL after a couple times of that I got the hang of it enough to drive around the empty parking lot.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 05, 2016, 12:36:13 PM
Inexperienced stick shift drivers always make me laugh...stalling out, etc.

It's not that terrible, just start in an empty parking lot or on private dirt roads! 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: lightingfan8902 on February 06, 2016, 09:45:08 AM
Hmm, which car brand is best? Is it Chevy, or Ford, or BMW?  ???
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 06, 2016, 10:51:58 AM
It's all a matter of personal preference. Generally, you get what you pay for, so a car like a Mercedes-Benz, Audi, BMW, etc is going t be better than an "economy" car like a Ford or Toyota.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on February 06, 2016, 12:38:46 PM
Quote from: lightingfan8902
Hmm, which car brand is best? Is it Chevy, or Ford, or BMW?  ???
None of the above....
it'd be: Honda, Nissan, Toyota.

(but if I had to choose one from the original list...Ford)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 06, 2016, 01:24:31 PM
You also forgot Dodge, Volkswagen, etc...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 07, 2016, 06:31:57 PM
OK, so I've officially become everything I ever hated:  Motion lights with CFLs!

I installed mine today.  Calibrating it was a PITA, but overall I'm happy with it.  It seems to work OK with CFLs too (Some don't since they use the filament of an incandescent/halogen bulb as the neutral for the sensor, causing CFLs or LEDs to behave erratically even when "off").  I'm happy with the 23w CFLs that are currently in there (one 2700K and one 6500K, first ones I grabbed) but if they are too dim in winter cold, etc. I'll get some LEDs, or swap incandescents back in.  It's set for 10 minutes and the full-mercury, non-covered 23w CFLs warm up quickly enough to still be worth it.   It may go through CFLs quickly with the frequent switching but I have plenty to use up, then I have an excuse to buy LEDs LOL.

It has a light sensor, so it isn't triggered during the daytime, which I had to cover with a piece of black electrical tape so it would turn on during the day.  I felt like a would-be burgular, hiding around corners waiting for it to turn off so I could walk around and check its sensitivity.  It's only good for about 45 feet, even on paper (more like 30ft in real life) but with a 10 minute limit that's not too much of an issue when walking in/out/back/forth frequently.  I also felt very childish jumping up and down and waving my arms to check sensitivity.  We'll see how it does after dark tonight.  My neighbor saw the lights flashing on and off while walking by and thought it was odd...I had to explain I was in the process of calibrating a newly-installed motion light LOL. 

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 07, 2016, 08:40:31 PM
LOL CFLs on a motion sensor won't work for me since by the time the lamp warms up, it'll shut off lol.  Though I got aggravated enough at my incandescent PAR motion sensor light in the backyard that I replaced the motion sensor with a hard-wired knuckle-style photocell. MUCH better! lol

Our motion sensor had sucky detection range. It's mounted like 15-20ft up too, so whatever range it did have was limited further. I think the little PC in it was shot too, since it would still turn on during the daytime if you walked by. We never used it anyway (and still don't lol). It's still got the original Philips 75W halogen PAR38s in it. When I installed the PC on it, I re-oriented the lamps so that one lights the entrance to the shed and the other lights up the stairs going up the deck. Those are the areas that are lit the least by my street lights (plus it helps to have the stairs lit when I go outside to unplug the street lights since now I don't need a flashlight to find my way back).

Our table lamp in the living room was acting up. Turns out the socket was going bad from years of heat from the 50/200/250W 3-Way lamps we've always used over the years. The lamp is as old as the house (2003) so after 12 year the socket finally had it. Turns out it was only rated for 100W max lamps. Oops... anyway, I installed a new 3-way socket and we bought a 3-way CFL. The only problem with the 3-way CFLs and LEDs is that they only exist to replace the 30-70-100 (CFL and LED) and 50-100-150 (CFL only) 3-way lamps. So we had to settle for a 50-100-150W "Bright Effects" (Lowe's brand before Utilitech; that's how long its been on the shelf) warm white (more like warm pink, lol) CFL and the highest setting is only as bright as the lowest setting from the former incandescent lamp. The new socket is metal but had a cardboard lining, which is stupid IMO, but it beats the former black plastic socket, which carried a 100W max rating. In reality, we should have a two- or three-bulb table lamp with the bulbs each on a little pull chain but lamps like that are few and far between and not cheap. I don't get why they make 50-200-250W 3-Way lamps if the sockets are only rated for 100W max. Kinda stupid IMO. The CFL isn't really cutting it. The high setting is good for when we typically had used the low setting on the incandescent but when we need that extra light, it's not there. Oh well... Socket was a real b!tch to replace too. I had to wing it lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 07, 2016, 10:04:14 PM
Mine actually brighten right up in maybe 30 seconds, and are usably bright to start with!  I'm pretty happy with it, but plan to move it to a still-to-be-built detached garage eventually.  If you want a motion-sensor light, get a Hubbell like this:  http://www.amazon.com/Hubbell-Outdoor-Lighting-M2LH-W-Motion/dp/B002NU56LS/ref=sr_1_164?ie=UTF8&qid=1454210269&sr=8-164&keywords=motion+light+socket#customerReviews


It had the good reviews, which is why I bought this particular one, and it WORKS!

LOL after 25 years (1988-2013) the house I grew up in still had many original lamps in fixtures.  Both incandescent and linear fluorescent.  Most were Philips.

My current house has only two original-since-I've-lived here bulbs.  That haven't burned out or been replaced with something else even though they worked. 

Ugh, 3-way CFLs.  I have one in use, an older (circa 2009), primitive, giant GE.  I hate those things.  Cree makes a decent 3-way LED but it's 30/70/100w IIRC...but it actually FITS most lamp harps! My CFL doesn't so I have a different harp on there and the shade is lopsided from being topheavy.  Thankfully it's in a corner...

Oh, so I have an annoying wiring story too from today/yesterday.  I had a Skillsaw plugged into an outlet just inside the door, 25' cord running outside (modified-by-my-dad-the-better-part-of-2-decades-ago skillsaw with it's own 25' cord) It quit halfway through a cut.  I was surprised...did I burn this thing up cutting through a 6" wide strip of OSB?!  Later I found my Internet modem/router, on another outlet on the other side of that wall, was dead.  I guess they're on the same breaker, but I'm not sure...I ended up shutting 3 different breakers off "just to be sure".  Installed two brand-new receptacles and no luck.  Weird! 

The original Eagle ivory receptacles in my house are not something I'm a fan of at all.  Really cheaply made LOL. 

For now I literally have two cheap 3-outlet 2-prong extension cords daisy-chained together for the Internet, since it's kinda essential, from an outlet in another room.  Did I mention the ceiling lights in both the rooms that could be on the same circuit as these receptacles work?  As well as other outlets? 

Whatever.  I'm not tearing up drywall for two nonworking outlets, and don't feel like tearing apart umpteen other junction boxes. 

Thoughts/ideas?  Ever had this happen? 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 07, 2016, 11:14:29 PM
Mine have shrouds on the lamps, which I really like (basically look like dog cones lol).

I don't mind it, it's just not bright enough. Yeah I have a huge 3-way GE too lol. This Bright Effects one actually fits but not without the harp extenders it came with (which are made out of the same crappy plastic as the CFL base) And oddly enough it goes MEDIUM-LOW-HIGH instead of LOW-MEDIUM-HIGH like a normal 3-way lamp lol.

Umm, sounds like a tripped breaker or GFCI. :-\ No need to flip through the breakers though, if one tripped it should be visible. Is it just those two outlets that are unpowered now? It sounds like you tripped something though.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 10, 2016, 06:44:19 AM
Well I may finally be putting those three-lamp T8 troffers from the middle school relight project up at my grandpa's apartment's basement next week. 8)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: lightingfan8902 on February 11, 2016, 09:11:33 PM
Oh ok.

Plus, can you post funny light memes here?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 11, 2016, 09:20:56 PM
Yes, you can post them  here. (http://www.galleryoflights.org/mb/index.php?topic=775.0) 8)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 14, 2016, 05:55:14 PM
Hey Mike, you'll like this.  Per a suggestion of my dad's after his being somewhat tired of all my lighting junk in the house, I'm planning on eventually building a small storage shed/workshop.  I'm thinking 12'X16'.  No applicable codes here so no permits to worry about...since I'm sure that's bigger than allowable for a "shed".  4' porch on front, so really 16X16.  Still working around standardized lumber sizes that way.  I'm thinking porch on gable end with roof extending over all 16' plus overhangs on both ends.  (Attic access over porch).   
Workbenches inside, and shelving.  Gets all my lighting stuff out of the house.  And make it nice and bright in there with all five 8' slimline fixtures I have, although they don't all have to be on at once.  (Maybe switch each one individually?).  Then a porch light too of course.  Would put a yardblaster up but the shop would be behind trees so it'd be useless.  Of course the place would be wired, with power from the house, though I might temporarily put a generator back there until I build a specific shed for it...so it'll be away from the house. 

I'm thinking digging short pilings for a foundation, 2X6 floor joists, plywood or OSB subfloor or home-milled 1-by material, and probably T-111 or metal roofing for siding (metal is probably cheaper!).  And metal roof.  Keep it simple. 

Probably will either bury electrical to/from the building, or overhead.  Maybe underground for the permanent outlets/lights, and overhead for the temporary feed from a generator, since it won't always be like that.

Thoughts?

I already have 3 windows I could use.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 14, 2016, 11:02:31 PM
OK Mike, here's another bizarre streetview link.  Laughing about this interchange by any chance?  https://www.google.com/maps/place/Delta+Junction,+AK/@64.0392521,-145.7339472,3a,62.8y,163.14h,86.33t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s6W5V7ubJoLFygKscBZOm5g!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x51348a2fa23bac21:0x90314f30db1906b5
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 18, 2016, 11:49:32 AM
Yeah I got permission from my parents to build a small shed. I'm thinking 6ftX8ft, 8ftX8ft or 8ftX10ft. I'm going to use 2X6 floor joists spaced at 16" O.C. with either a plywood or OSB sheeting (all pressure treated). From there I will make four walls with 2X4 studs 16" O.C. with a regular exterior house door on one of the short sides and some sort of window opposite the door and also adjacent to the door over my work bench. The windows won't open like traditional windows. They'll just be Plexiglas with a wood frame with some foam around it. In order to "open" the window for air flow, the window actually gets removed by turning four pins. It would be much cheaper than real windows and will still work just fine.

On one of the long sides, there will be shelving at least 3ft deep for the storage of cobraheads (I plan to continue storing fluorescent lights inside our existing shed). I'll also likely use T-111 for siding and will be using a sheet metal roof to make the shed lighter, as I plan to transport this when I move out, likely on a flatbed truck. That's why I don't want it to be over 8ft for the shorter dimension.

As for wiring up this shed, I have no plans to ever be out there at night, so really no need for lighting. And as for power, my yard is small enough where I can run an extension cord over there if I need to. When I get my own place, I will possibly hook this up to power and if so, I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. I may still mount some lights inside and then just run an extension cord to power them in the event I need the light (and maybe an outlet to boot) but that's all. Nothing fancy.

As for your shed: underground is always better if it can be done. If you have a lot of trees near the path the wiring will take between the shed and your house, you're going to have a hard time digging through those roots (plus over time the roots will grow back and will destroy the cable if you just direct-bury some UF; if you have tree roots use rigid steel conduit, since the roots could damage PVC conduit too.  Overhead is quick and easy (and cheaper compared to a properly-done underground run) but clearance could be an issue and then you have to worry about trees. If a limb falls it could easily rip out that overhead feed. Both have their advantages and disadvantages (underground also looks better!) but whatever suits your needs best is what I'd do. For me, when I get my own place and wire this shed up, I will probably use an underground feed and will likely put the shed within 20ft of my house.

I haven't decided on a height for my shed yet. The roof will have a 6/12 pitch but IDK about a wall height. It will have to be at least the height of the door I use though (so probably 7-8ft tall). I'm hoping to find an exterior door that swings outward, but I don't think those exist (aside from commercial-grade doors, which I don't want since they're too expensive, not to mention overkill for a shed). Hopefully I can find a second-hand door somewhere since a door costs over $100!



 Here is a similar interchange here.  (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8594696,-71.411121,3a,49.2y,345.42h,85.07t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1ssI31EJ2-Rdw0dHvWXCDMWA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en) Though the one I linked isn't freeway-like and has a traffic signal.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 18, 2016, 09:59:04 PM
Cool!  Great plans for yours.  As for flatbed transporting, would this be in one unit?  (If you could hire a crane to lift it up onto a truck or something?)  If so you could always wire it, then connect it to power once it moves to it's permanent home.

Part of it could be underground easily, but part of it will go through trees, etc.  There's already a 4/3 UF wire nearby buried, going to what was (20 years ago, mind you) a grow-op hidden back there.  Now the lot has been split and it's on the neighbor's property, but the wire still ends up inside my breaker panel, disconnected of course.  So I might cut that off at the property line, dig it up, and reroute it a bit to my shed.  The ground wire alone in that wire is like #12 equivalent!  So I could use two of the 4 conductors for power going out there, and two from a generator going back to the house, at least in theory.  I see no reason why not.    Being so heavy and awkward, I'm not stringing THAT stuff overhead, it'll just lay on the ground in the bushes.  There's lots of trees/brush/stumps around where the shed would be.

As for that interchange, wow!  It's kinda fun sharing Streetviews of our respective states.  Did you explore the area around the one I showed at all? If not it's also part of that bizarre Richardson Highway.  And just a few miles from where I might be living in college, though I'd probably only be going through that interchange on the way down to the "lower 48" states. 

Something that makes me chuckle about Streetview is the height of the camera, looking down on everything.  Probably because I have a certain group of friends, who, whenever I mention driving, commuting, road-tripping, or anything like that comment "Yeah, in your Deuce and a Half!"  (Who, I might add, know those truck inside and out); I learned a ton about them from these people; that's how I spent my Christmas vacation). 

Despite that, they apparently think it's the funniest thing ever that I've seriously considered owning one and driving it frequently.  (Hence the inside joke).  For instance, being that we live in Alaska, where it is dark more than 50% of the time in winter, they gifted me with all sorts of flashlights at Christmas.  "You will need these for sure, wrenching on your Deuce and a Half on the side of the highway at 2AM!"


Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 19, 2016, 10:12:04 PM
I was thinking if it had a metal roof it might be light enough for half a dozen guys to lift up if it were emptied out? If not perhaps I'd have to take it apart... I'd like to keep it as one unit if possible. Yeah maybe if I get bored I'll wire it up but I plan to not wire up the shed until I need to. It's going to cost enough to build the shed as it is.
 
Are you suggesting using the ground wire as a conductor? I certainly wouldn't do that! If the cable is already sorta headed in the right direction, cut it at the property line, dig but about 5ft of it, stick a 4X4 post in the ground with a PVC elbow going up the post to a junction box and then splice a new cable to go from there to the shed. That way you don't need to dig up the whole cable because trust me, you'll hate yourself if you dig up the whole thing lol. Maybe if you make the post tall enough, you could mount your yardblaster to it and put  a switch  (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51HGJfIRoAL._SL1020_.jpg) on the pole for it.

Yep I had explored that area and saw that interchange before. Around here the big thing is unfinished interchanges. I'm sure I've showed you a few of those.  Like this freeway, which abruptly ends at a three way intersection with a traffic light, though originally it was just a blinking light with the freeway ending at a stop sign and the other road having right-of-way.  (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7549804,-71.4835124,3a,24.3y,255.46h,91.72t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sEHd-x-c_gbMatzjOE_V1vA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en) There's lots of accidents because people don't realize how fast they're going and they slam into the guardrail across the street.  The double-arrow and Yield sign mounted on the traffic island get hit at least once every two months. Lots of times the Yield sign ends up behind the guardrail across the street!  (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7543084,-71.486356,3a,21y,266.69h,84.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sx_M9ecmytquPpFgCvaL8dg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en) Not to mention there's no street lights on the freeway right at the end because the two poles that are supposed to be there got knocked down and never were replaced. One was knocked down around 2011/2012 and the other has been gone over 15 years. I just know it was there because of the foundation in the ground.

 Here's another abruptly ending interchange that was never completed due to public opposition.  (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5300801,-71.4671962,3a,51.9y,236.05h,89.32t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s5Iosd3S9Oeswb9BbEc8gLg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en)  And Another here.  (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7754091,-71.4188407,3a,63.2y,39.83h,87.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-DdNpfkMXoO5xLpwQ9UUJw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en) With this one, you can see the bridge was designed for a four-lane freeway to go under it. However, the freeway was never finished due to public opposition and lack of a feasible plan. The problem with RI being so densely populated is that a lot of areas were already occupied by the time freeways and interstates took off in the 60s so there are a lot of funky interchanges designed around existing infrastructure as well as freeways that terminate at half-completed interchanges.  Here's yet another freeway that randomly terminates.  (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8207848,-71.5131897,3a,43y,262.51h,88.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1suHqyAS3GqDRLRX674XyWtw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en) This freeway was supposed to be an interstate running into Connecticut but the third phase of the project was never executed for fear that the heavy traffic may pollute the Scituate (sit-CHOO-it) Reservoir, which supplies most of the public water supply for RI (most of the southern half of the state has well water).  Here's an overhead shot.  (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8206562,-71.5132002,3a,71.4y,270.23h,84.69t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sn_gzGtkDW93TA72YlN-uYg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en)   Right here you can clearly see land that was groomed for a ramp.  (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8225856,-71.5106976,3a,38.8y,159.26h,84.21t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJ0TycZ-VzF9PXZiQrtS4-Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en)

In Massachusetts, Interstate 295 abruptly ends  here  (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9550754,-71.3050477,3a,50.1y,83.36h,86.43t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sMhJSGiPF1CpOTiQxkdCyHA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en) at a half-interchange. It was supposed to join Interstate 495 but was never finished due to public opposition.  FYI those wood pole street lights are maintained by NGrid. MassDOT doesn't have their own freeway lighting in most of the southeastern portion of the state since it's rural for the most part. In most cases there's no freeway lighting. Virtually all RIDOT interchanges have lights in RI.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 19, 2016, 11:56:04 PM
I like your idea of only digging up a few feet of the wire. Unless I moved down a bunch of trees and stumps, installing my yardblaster there would be pointless, though.

Wow, RI is crazy in terms of freeways!  Yeah, being a small state and so densely populated already, I can imagine there would be lots of public opposition. 

That's crazy there's accidents there that often. 

https://www.google.com/maps/place/San+Gabriel+Rd,+Atascadero,+CA+93422/@35.4626535,-120.6748837,3a,66.8y,148.81h,85.55t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sMOZZAmUUHqPt-iAopjI9Yw!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x80ece83166d71a29:0xd1c5c8a0d01cafe

This may seem weird that there's a traffic light in seemingly the middle of nowhere, but it's not.  It's a few blocks from my old elementary school.  They put in the traffic light, despite lots of local opposition, because of so many kids walking to school.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Halibut+Point+Rd,+Sitka,+AK+99835/@57.0531281,-135.3343796,3a,66.8y,332.45h,75.13t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sb8d_ZS1bKtp-5O1ro-Cr9g!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x540467b3188e4b53:0x4912b0c41f243e5

This roundabout used to be a 4-way with a stop sign.  It's ridiculous how much traffic there is in Sitka, for only about 8,500 people.  There were accidents there all the time, plus traffic would back up with it being an uncontrolled intersection. 

Juneau, AK, has several of these bizarre freeway-stops-at-a-traffic light scenarios: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Egan+Dr,+Juneau,+AK+99801/@58.3296575,-134.4721154,3a,66.8y,332.45h,75.13t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s0x1Dwk1L5Zj4l9fkkWp2ug!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x5400e01e669ca307:0x1e0d8afe95d64e98

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Egan+Dr,+Juneau,+AK+99801/@58.3641219,-134.5747962,3a,66.8y,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s6fC82mHYF35BdQ9TEIPyWg!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x5400e01e669ca307:0x1e0d8afe95d64e98

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Egan+Dr,+Juneau,+AK+99801/@58.3699093,-134.5859179,3a,66.8y,287.22h,90.29t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sbe4HzuEcPZTUUD7Z4lRYZQ!2e0!

As is typical in Alaska, another classic case of the "freeway" narrowing down to a 2-lane highway...

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Egan+Dr,+Juneau,+AK+99801/@58.3701984,-134.5982376,3a,66.8y,269.56h,76.24t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1spuG8tWw1HFq1e3xJwAjP1g!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x5400e01e669ca307:0x1e0d8afe95d64e98

Wow, much of RI is on well water?  Much of Fairbanks, AK and the surrounding area is either on wells or in "dry" houses/cabins...no indoor plumbing whatsoever.  Outhouse at -40F in the winter! 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 20, 2016, 01:26:36 PM
Ah yeah I guess if there's a lot of trees it wouldn't be worth it to install the yardblaster on the post. In that case, the post only has to be like 4ft tall then (two feet underground, two feet sticking up, or whatever you think would be suitable. If there's shrubbery over there the 2ft might allow you to conceal the post and junction box so an untrained eye won't even notice it (that way you don't have an ugly box sticking up out of the ground on a post lol)

Yeah RI is not very efficient in terms of how our freeways are laid out. As a result, there's a high volume of traffic on the freeways and lots of clog-ups. Ah yeah around here they like to go on traffic signal installation sprees. They don't install anything new for like five years and then RIDOT just starts sprouting up traffic lights all over the place lol.  This traffic light here  (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7716144,-71.5358846,3a,46.3y,48.92h,87.3t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGJ5HpiVDV6IxC2VL-h9jcA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en) was installed around 10 years ago. Before that, the cross street (Pippin Orchard Road) had a stop sign and the main road (RI State Route 12 aka Scituate Avenue) had the right-of-way. I forget if there was a beacon there before. I don't think there was. We don't have a ton of beacon lights in RI.  Here's one of the few around here.  (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7601184,-71.5703641,3a,43.3y,343.2h,87.77t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sitHAxA90pd3-JTPxQ-H0hQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en) They're not rare but not common either since they're only used in rural areas, which generally just don't have any form of signaling other than signage.

 Here is the Scituate Reservoir, where I get my water from (I live only a few miles from it). This was a man-made reservoir, made unfortunately by flooding out the old village. When the water is very low you can sometimes see old stone foundations.  (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7518894,-71.5869976,3a,75y,346.17h,86.13t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1swuuv4OWjemuUHxyaVH9jQg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en) On the other side of this road is nothing since the road is right on the dam.  This road here  (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7894962,-71.5999775,3a,90y,214.84h,83.15t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sb4X_LdJLh2lXmCq7k5X_QA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo1.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Db4X_LdJLh2lXmCq7k5X_QA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D204.23228%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en) passes through the middle of the Reservoir. It's a pretty big body of water and off-limits to humans. There's police patrolling the area 24/7.

Rotaries (or roundabouts like a lot of people call them; I've always heard them called rotaries around here. Must be a regional name for them...) are not common here.  Here's one that's been around forever though.  (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7773908,-71.4691324,3a,49.4y,162.3h,88.7t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s1VvfjPpDJXRGbTlYyZL7_Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en) Since the 50s or 60s at least.  I've only seen the term "roundabout" used on the newest ones.  (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.6053881,-71.4456584,3a,24.8y,265.22h,85.7t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPDaK7OPKxGOb3TXPQ-wpWg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en) The word roundabout sounds hickish in my opinion lol.  And then we have these stupid things in Providence that the city put in the middle of 4-way intersections in some of their neighborhoods to slow down traffic cutting through lol. (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8018628,-71.4202027,3a,45.6y,243.47h,83.46t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1scG2BTH6HiTgcmvRYKnwrxQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en) They look ridiculous since they didn't even change the intersection at all; they just added a barricade in the middle of the intersection. They looked nice when they were put in but like with everything, they never keep up with it and they end up looking like hell just a few years later! I think if RI used more rotaries/roundabouts instead of slapping up traffic lights everywhere, traffic would move a little more smoothly. But hey, I'm no traffic engineer lol.

Much of the rural areas in RI are indeed on personal wells (so basically the whole western half of the state). The biggest public water supplier in RI is Providence Water, which gets the water from the Scituate Reservoir. There's also the Kent County Water Authority, which sources its water from the Scituate Reservoir and large wells. KCWA uses a lot of those balloon shaped water tanks. Newport Water does too.  See here.  (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.657724,-71.5621041,3a,49.7y,347.38h,98.87t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVB2EnglpW0Wu1c11RoQtgA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en)



Wow that's a lot of weird stop signs for sure as well as weird freeway configurations in general. I guess they didn't have the cash to make freeway interchanges and make the highway a true freeway? :-\
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 20, 2016, 02:54:17 PM
Yeah, I'd say our freeways aren't laid out very efficiently either.  So yeah, there's a lot of traffic here.  The typical thing seems to be widening the existing road into a freeway but without the proper on-ramps and off-ramps, since you still have to get to places on the other side of the "freeway".  Like this: https://www.google.com/maps/place/North+Pole,+AK+99705/@64.7676185,-147.4032095,3a,66.8y,171.54h,95.74t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s7n824YMtmllHd0nPdP3-uQ!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x51324d51d5c5f2b9:0xda1a7714d9d98964  As we've already seen, this Richardson Highway is pretty bizarre.  I might be driving on the Richardson pretty regularly while in college, so I'll get to deal with the crazy traffic patterns in person. 

I can't think of any beacon lights in AK, to be honest!

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Port+Alexander,+AK/@56.2460415,-134.6637522,19z/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x54056e55f5ce8ff9:0xf3d6ac41ef65b491

This tank is where my water comes from.  It's from a dammed-up creak, that fills the tank.  The lake off to the left, if you zoom out, is the winter water supply when the line from the tank freezes. 

Wow, those "planters" are something I've never seen before! 

Here's one that always screwed people up when trying to give directions to our house.  We lived off Navarette Ave (Look at the satellite imagery, it was Linda Vista Ave) but people would continue on to San Andreas Ave too often. Even the school bus driver...

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Navarette+Ave,+Atascadero,+CA+93422/@35.481195,-120.6722344,3a,66.8y,236.26h,78.59t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sbTfWjb0zec4JAykWYPXZEQ!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x80ece82802d83f85:0x7e13554bb2ec2cc6


While we're at it, here's another good one in Atascadero. The now-moved-to-a-new-location library was conveniently next to a traffic light.  People would drive through the parking lot there to avoid the traffic light!  (I know, my mom worked there). 

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Navarette+Ave,+Atascadero,+CA+93422/@35.4816266,-120.6662417,19z/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x80ece82802d83f85:0x7e13554bb2ec2cc6

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Navarette+Ave,+Atascadero,+CA+93422/@35.4820018,-120.6660457,3a,66.8y,297.71h,79.18t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sH0uemL6LcW9pICMP-uIoyw!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x80ece82802d83f85:0x7e13554bb2ec2cc6

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Navarette+Ave,+Atascadero,+CA+93422/@35.48176,-120.6670685,3a,66.8y,58.36h,80.69t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s019C89ADYDjK2OFGtCGb5A!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x80ece82802d83f85:0x7e13554bb2ec2cc6

This last one, for what it's worth:  See the boarded-up house to the left with the tattered roof?  This house had been donated to the library and the Friends of the Library used it for storage.  My mom hated going in there...as she put it, windows hadn't been opened in years, too many fake air fresheners, old book page smell, etc.  It was a normal house, but every single room except the bathrooms was full of books.  It's funny looking at these Streetviews, I haven't seen this in person and 2-1/2 years now and didn't know it had been boarded up...the Streetviews are more recent than I am!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 26, 2016, 12:23:18 AM
So I grabbed three GE F32T8/SPX35 lamps from work that were being thrown away.  There was a fourth lamp, a '90s Sylvania 3500K T8, but it was clearly dead.  The lamps I got are used but have some life left.  The SPX35 color is really nice, better than SP35 IMO.  Colors, especially reds, really "pop" under it. 

I'd still like to get a case of those 8000K Sylvanias and relamp all my F32T8 lights with those, and some GE Chroma 75s (or something equivalent) for my F40T12 fixtures.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 26, 2016, 02:12:09 AM
So I did some searching around online for the aforementioned lamps.  C75 is EXPENSIVE!  Apparently they're EcoLux, suggesting they're still made.  (I wasn't sure if they still were).  Also, Philips apparently makes a C75, that is 95CRI? (GE's is 92CRI).  I might have to get some once my cash flow improves.

I also found some GE F96T12/C50/WM.  Yes, crappy 60w energy savers but they're Chroma 50!  That's gotta be a little on the rare side.  Might have to get a pair of those just for the heck of it. I need some slimlines anyway and they're relatively cheap. (Like $8.49/lamp).  Only thing that scares me is shipping 8ft lamps...

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: lightingfan8902 on February 26, 2016, 01:47:52 PM
I was also searching some fluorescents too. I was looking for a old pre-heat lamps, and I think they can be at some restores, or antique stores. So, I might look for one. Plus I might find some bulbs, if I get a chance at them.

Plus I went to Lowe's and they have the LED linear fixtures to replace the fluorescents T8s.  :(  So I'll keep using fluorescents. Plus, Monday they put bulbs on the last T8 F32 fixture where the storage is, remember I took a pic, with no tubes in it. Welp, there are now tubes in it, and that area of my garage is now lit.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 26, 2016, 06:04:55 PM
Maybe if the population ever booms in Alaska they'll dump some money into making "real" freeways lol. Here in RI we just had a bunch of short sections of freeway that basically just lead from one city to the next without going through the city. I-95 was originally RI Route 95 in RI before the Interstate system was created. Interstate 295 was built in the 1970s. The entire Rhode Island section of Interstate 95 was finished by the mid-60s, the oldest section being from Warwick to Providence.

Yes, SPX35 lamps are very nice. Now you see why I like 3500K! I've only ever dealt with SPX35, though that new 3500K GE lamp I put in the troffer is a SP35 and it is noticeable pinker, which I dislike. The SPX35 looks much better, though it's possible that the color has changed on the SPX35s after 10 years of moderately hard service. A 60W F96T12 in halophoshate 5000K sounds terrible IMO lol. Nice color for sure, but you'd get nearly the same amount of light from a full-power 2X F40T12 fixture with triphosphor lamps lol. My grandpa has some Philips 5000K slimlines but they're 75W (have the shield logo). And THOSE are dim, so I can only imagine a 60W version lol.

8000K or even 7500K is way to blue for me but obviously you are a fan of the bluer colors. :)  I LOVE old school halophosphate daylight. Even /DX is nice but triphosphor daylight can be harsh on the eyes. Can't go wrong with 5000K lamps. In living space I'd want 4100K or less though I'm warming up to halophosphate warm white (no pun intended). Not sure why, but I find I like it for 2ft-or-less tubes. For daylight, I like it more with the bigger fixtures. I guess for my personal tastes, as brightness increases, so should color temperature lol. I think the six-lamp F32T8 highbays in my construction shop and school gym would look great but they wouldn't look so great with 3500K or warm white. Cool white never looks out of place in any situation, which is probably why it's so overused (when in doubt, "CW" it out!)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 26, 2016, 06:27:42 PM
You had me laughing through your whole post, Mike!  Yeah, maybe if the population ever booms...we'd get a lot of things.  Our freeways are definitely pretty lame compared to most places!

Depends!  Dim, but diffuse, and easy on the eyes.  And a nice color to boot.  I might consider getting some but I'm already inquiring on a couple possible LG trades, so we'll see.  (Maybe getting a NOS Sylvania clearbander 400w or two!)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 26, 2016, 07:05:13 PM
This is, however, starting to light a fire under my posterior to clean up and install my slimline fixtures someplace.  Haven't yet decided where.  It's funny, I really wanted a 8' slimline for years, now I have five of them!  I just need lamps...

I might install 4 of them in the garage, but I'd be suspending them somehow, from the sagging, leaky roof.  It'd be a huge upgrade over what lights the area now...one clip light with a 250w infared heat lamp. The fifth one, which doesn't match (It's a Lithonia, the others are Metalux) might be reserved for a garage/shed that's being built later on. 

What I'd really like to find, though, is an 8ft HO fixture.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on February 26, 2016, 09:32:04 PM
@GEsoftwhite100watts:
Yep.. C75 is pricey..and so many places want to sell a full case  :( I didn't know GE still made it though, only one I knew of that made it is Industrial.

I don't know if I'd take a C50-energy saver slimline even if I saw it for free LOL
I'd rather go with full wattage CW or Daylight since both are readily available.

@Mike
I'm not a fan of 3500k, its what I consider the 'dime a dozen' color... that stuff is everywhere , basically like cool-white used to be.

@lightingfan8902:
I saw those LED linear fixtures at Lowes. They looked like they probably weren't meant to have EOL parts replaced. (not to mention the fact that like anything LED they are overpriced)

@GEsoftwhite100watts:
I've got a couple 8' slimlines in the garage, they do OK...just OK: don't like the cold in winter, and are only used for short periods with somewhat frequent switching so lamps don't last as long as they otherwize would. (I'm actually tempted to swap out one of the magnetic ballasts for that electronic one I got at the ReStore, since I know it'd be fine with cold...but might also make for an interesting lamp-lifespan comparison between it and a magnetic.)
I have another 3 or 4 8' slimline fixtures laying in the crawlspace, and 2 8' HO fixtures sitting around too...If I had a place, those would deff be up!

--
Mighta mentioned this place before, but you'll get a laugh out of it:
I was in a Goodwill store last weekend, and the lights were a total random mix of colors...I think they basically got all the 'standard' 'whites':  3000k, 3500k, 4100k, 5000k, 6500k. Plus there were a couple dead lamps and a couple dead ballasts...and one ballast that still lit normally, except for the fact that every 30 seconds or so it'd give a quick blink LOL
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 26, 2016, 09:44:21 PM
True, diffused, but the flickering would probably be irritating being 5000K halophosphate and an ES lamp lol. Gotta use it in a warm environment. :P

Oh, your garage has a leaky roof? That's not good! get some tarps and try to make a temporary fix, since you don't want the structural members to rot! Much easier to re-shingle the roof if you don't have to replace rotted plywood and rafters. Yeah an 8ft HO is a freakin' piece of the sun lol. (when the lamps are new that is; HO lamps dim badly as they age. If they made triphosphor T12/HOs the effect would probably be magnified).

BTW, I made by own F4T5 strip light out of sheet aluminum! It was left over from a science project. It's paper thin (can bend it easily with my hands) but the way I built it is pretty sturdy. It's like an old school strip, where the fixture is backwards; the U-shaped channel is on the outside with the sockets and everything mounted to it and the "channel cover" is what gets mounted to the ceiling. Then the U-shaped channel gets secured to the channel cover (or the backplate in this case). The ballast runs extremely hot though, so not sure if this will be good in the long run. I have four F4T5s, all daylight tubes. Two only work on battery-powered lanterns. The other two are NOS, aside from the one I've been running in it. The ballast (an open-style choke) runs so hot I can't hold a finger to it after running the light for an hour. The ballast is rated for 0.17A and for running one 7-9W PL fluorescent. I suppose the 4W lamp is too low for it, though it would probably run a 6 or 8W T5 alright. I don't have any F6T5s and I have F8T5 fixtures. I also have a F4T5/BLB lamp.

@ xmaslightguy: Actually, I find 4100K to still be the most common here. 3500K was common in the 90s and early 2000s but it's all about the 4100K tubes again. I think the reason for the 3500K tubes was to make the T8s stand out more and be more appealing with their more "cozy" color.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 26, 2016, 10:15:54 PM
Yeah, if I got those lamps they'd have to be used somewhere warm.  But they're actually pretty cheap, so it I might be able to live with that.  I think they're what I will buy when I first put my fixtures up, then get 75w lamps I like later...they're like $8 each, not bad for slimlines.  (I'd like 75w for sure anyway).

Also eBay has lots of NOS magnetic ballasts.  When I put my fixtures up I'll buy a couple spare ballasts too.

I want to tarp the roof but haven't done it.  That roof has issues anyway, it was never built right to start with (4X6 beam across a 20 foot span, unsupported until we put a post in, etc).  So if it rots it's not a huge issue since it needs redone anyway.  All the structural members are probably warped anyway, not something I'd reuse. Darn thing has been leaking since built in 2000.  That's 16 years now and it's never been leak-free (Wasn't flashed right where it meets the house).  In reality this house should be demolished and rebuilt from scratch, but I sure won't be the one doing that, I'll make do with its issues and quirks and patch it together/remodel in non-up-to-code ways as needed.  It's already pretty weird and wouldn't meet codes for the most part, since there are no enforceable codes here! 

Because of this roof, I'll be suspending the fixtures for sure. 

Neat, a little T5 fixture! 

I'm going to look up the Industrial C75 now...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on February 26, 2016, 10:50:07 PM
@Mike:
Sounds like a cool little fixture... but yeah that's way too hot, might fry the ballast!
I don't know it it'd even fit, but you might try a Fulham Workhorse1 or some other electronic??

Interesting.. 3500k is by far the most common I see here, followed by 5000k, then 4100k.

@GEsoftwhite100watts:
I'd still fix that roof for leaks... that or demo it and re-do it (who knows, though..that might open a whole can of worms, of other things that need fixing though??)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 27, 2016, 12:27:37 AM
Opening another can of worms...that's my house alright! 

Wow, 5000K is common?  I see lots of 3500K mass-installs spot-relamped with 4100K.  I know I've said it before but the one that takes the cake was the supermarket/grocery store lit with a random more or less 50/50 mix of 3000K and 6500K, so as you walk up and down aisles and from one side of the store to the other the lights go orange-blue-orange-blue.  The 6500K-lit sections were VERY pleasant though, at least to someone who likes the cooler color temps.  Same store, which was the "anchor" store in a strip mall, had expanded into the next "space" in the strip mall adjacent to it to add a mercantile/hardware/appliances/clothing section.  The main part of the store was lit with 2X4 troffers in a drop ceiling, but this "addition" was lit with suspended wraparounds.  They all appeared to have F32T8s installed on T12 ballasts!  All 5000K or 6500K.  It had that nasty "shimmering" effect though as you walked up and down the aisles.  They'd clearly been there awhile, many of the lamps had end-blackenign and a few had even reached natural EOL (Boy, was that quite a light show).  If you are prone to migranes or epileptic seizures, this store was NOT for you! (Flickering daylight fluorescents everywhere).  I actually liked the idea of 6500K in a supermarket but they could've at least matched the ballasts to the lamps!

That same area had/has a LOT of commercial places lit with daylight lamps it seems.  Gas station convenience stores, True Value, NAPA, strip malls, etc.  Most were 75 watt slimline 8 footers!  It's getting rare to see slimlines in commercial use.  They all had GE F96T12/SP65 but I've watched as they're all spot-relamped with GE 60w HL41 Watt-Misers, regardless of the store/place. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 27, 2016, 02:34:24 PM
Yeah that roof sounds like quite a project! I'm still working out my plans for my shed. I'm going to build the shed itself first and then worry about the shelving after (I'm going to put in integral shelving for my lights, as this will be a storage shed). There will be a little work bench in there too unless I end up needing that space too. The plan is for a 8ft X 10ft shed with 7ft tall walls and a 6/12 pitch gable roof with sheet metal roofing panels. I'm going to start with building the floor (possible in the upcoming weeks) and then will build the walls and roof up afterwards.

Yeah I might fry the ballast! That's why I'm a little concerned. My little makeshift fixture is too small for any larger ballast. The starter socket and ballast take up nearly all the space available. The rest of the space is eaten by the splice for the cord coming in (yep, drilled a 7/8" KO and used a cord and romex clamp on it) The fixture was designed on the spot. A pretty unique design too. I'll put some pics up on LG soon... Basically to open it you just have to remove four nuts (which releases the fixture body from the backplate) and then loosen the cord clamp, since there's not enough room in the fixture to leave enough cord slack to allow the fixture to be opened up without doing so. So anyway, I will either have to find a suitable ballast that will fit or make a new fixture lol. It's a very tight design with everything crammed in there but I've wanted an F4T5 fixture awhile now. ;D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 27, 2016, 03:19:15 PM
A couple foundation ideas for you to chew on:

-concrete "Tofu" blocks , then 4X6 or 4X8 timbers in those, then nail floor joists across that.
-alternately, just use pressure-treated lumber, or even old creosote/tar railroad ties and nail the floor joists across that, making them level of course.  We did a loosely-stacked rock foundation for the shed we've started, then had 2X12s laid flat over those, and floor joists nailed to that.  (It was a PITA getting that floor level and square but we did it)

Another idea, but it might look ugly:  For lower costs and ease of moving the thing later, make the walls out of metal roofing instead of T-111.  Darn it, Mike, at the rate you're acquiring "stuff", just like me, when you get your own place you'll need to find yourself a Deuce as a housewarming present to yourself just to help with the move!  I MIGHT be living on six acres next winter but won't be bringing all my lighting stuff with me to that property, possibly ever, since I'll still have the house here.  But I'm sure I'll be collecting while there.  Fellow LG member Icefoglights is located in that same area (Fairbanks, AK area) so maybe we'll get to meet in person...

That house also lacks city power.  But at least it has some solar panels!  That'll help a lot during the summer months, but during the winter I'd be running a generator.  It apparently has two 5000w Honda gas-guzzlers, which might have to change.  I'd go diesel but diesel isn't always great in subzero temperatures (It gets that cold in the winter there, here it's never below zero).  So I'd probably get one of the newer Honda 2000w or 3000w units, that would probably do what I need.  Maybe two of the 2000w units and a parallel-operation kit so I have 4000w...that's probably STILL use less fuel!  All I'd need that much power for anyway would be, say, cold mornings with all the lights on, charging the house battery bank, and running block heaters in two vehicles to get them warm enough to start.  (My dad might be there at times as well, we'll see). 

It is, however, on a well.  (No city water).  At least it has indoor plumbing, many dwellings in interior Alaska don't.  I'm serious. Outhouse at -40F in the winter or 105F in the summer!  But rent for a "dry cabin" in Fairbanks proper is literally $400/month or less!  I was considering one but my dad wanted running water...and so did I. 

A F4T5 will be a nice nightlight. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 27, 2016, 06:21:49 PM
Well, I decided to make the shed 8X8 now so I only need two sheets of 4X8 flooring, since the stuff costs $30/sheet. No sense in buying a third sheet and only use half of it...

As for the "foundation", I'm just going to get four cinder blocks and prop the shed up on it, burying the cinder blocks accordingly so that they end up being level with each other (since my whole yard is sloped throughout). That's how our current shed is. No 4X4s or anything like that. I'm planning on using 2X6 pressure treated stock for the floor joists. 7 Common joists (spaced 16" O.C.) and two headers, all originating from 8ft boards (trimming off a mere couple of inches on each board to give the 8X8 shed size). The decking material is going to be two 4X8 23/32" thick pressure treated plywood. The joists are all nailed together with 16-penny hot-dip galvanized nails (or 16d nails suitable for use with PT wood) and the plywood is nailed to the joists with 8-penny nails suitable for PT wood (as regular nails will rot out in months is used with pressure treated wood).

I think I'm going to stick with T1-11 for the siding, not because it will look better, but just because wood is more my comfort zone. The Roof will definitely be metal though since with the shingles and stuff the thing would be WAY too heavy. Plus if I have to, disassembling a metal roof is possible. With a shingled roof, I'd need to scrap the roof (could save the plywood but everything else would have to go).

Anyway, turns out I will be starting the shed flooring system tomorrow! Going to get the supplies at Home Depot tonight. I have a $50 gift card to help get me started. So that $60 worth of plywood will be pretty much free lol. I'm going to have to ask my dad where I can put the shed. He said I could build it, but I need to see where I can put it. Maybe next to the existing one? Or perhaps in the opposite side of the yard? Dunno...

I'm allowing myself a $1000 budget for the shed. The Floor system is eating up about $150 of that budget, including the plywood, joists, nails, and cinderblocks. The T1-11 (9 sheets) is going to set me back another $275 by itself at $29.95 a sheet. I'd rather have the real stuff instead of the "composite" crap, which is essentially compressed paper. I haven't done the math to determine the number of 2X4 wall studs needed or calculated any materials for the roof yet. A door will probably cost me $150. The sheet metal roofing I have no idea on the cost. I don't even know any places that sell it locally. I need to buy it pre-cut since I don't have a sawzall to cut it.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 27, 2016, 06:58:28 PM
That's cool to hear you're gonna start building soon! 

I'd think places like Home Depot or Lowes would have the metal roofing.  You may have to special-order pre-cut stuff though, I don't know. A "peanut grinder" with a cutoff wheel works great for cutting that stuff. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on February 27, 2016, 08:31:19 PM
@GEsoftwhite100watts:
Yep.. all the Walmarts here are 5000k (some have systems that dim/off) the lights depending on how bright the outside/sun-light is. I've seen 5000k in some other stores too. Some stores are 3500k, as are many office/college/etc type buildings.

That place with the split colors would be similar to a thrift store here thats got 2 sections 4100k/6500k...just even more pronounced difference!

And LOL I could just imagine a whole place full of F32's running on F40 ballasts, with that 60hz flicker they do.

Its also getting rare to see slimlines in commercial use here...you pretty much won't see T12, but there a few with the 8' T8's


@Mike:
Yeah, don't risk it, if its getting so hot you can't touch it, the ballast will fry eventually. One thing you might be able to do is put 2 F8 ballasts preheat in series (should work but both have to be the exact same model/brand. I've seen them small enough where 2 would fit in a F4T5 fixture). I looked at one of my Workhore1's.. and those are big enough that it'd be _very_ difficult to fit one in a 1xF4 fixture (I might eventually try making a 2xF4 & a 2xF6 with them though).


------
Last fall I looked at what it'd take to do a 2nd shed (in this case a 8x16(which I woulda had to check & make sure was still within the no-permit shed size))... but I determined there just isn't the yardspace for it. Now if the area ever got hit with spruce-beetles I would then be building that shed.

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on February 27, 2016, 09:37:33 PM
I went to a meetup of some guys from the xmas-light forums I'm on today.  Some of the stuff they have these days is just awesome!

I might eventually have to get me a 'Raspberry Pi' and a few of these little RGB LED display panels they use (depending on cost ofcousre)

--
Also the place where it was held, had those generic 3xF32T8 parabolic troffers you see _everywhere_ these days...but  they had all been converted to LED with those Philips retrofit lamps.
Just sitting in the room you wouldn't notice it wasn't fluorescent...but I can say that they definitely were susaptable to voltage fluctuations (which coulda also been whatever ballasts were in the fixtures). Since there were people around I couldn't whip out the camera and point it straight up at the ceiling...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 27, 2016, 10:03:02 PM
Yep, I have the lumber in my backyard now. Gonna build the floor/deck of the shed tomorrow after I set the cinder blocks in the ground. The shed will be near the existing shed about 10 feet away from it on the side that the street light is mounted on. I'm going to leave the street light on the existing shed. No street lights on the new shed since I don't anticipate it being tall enough (and no need with the other shed having a street light on it) though I may eventually install my 100W MV NEMA on the shed. Not while I'm living here though since the location I'm building the shed in is infested with bees/wasps in the spring and summer months. A NEMA head will be a wasp heaven unless it's a dayburner lol.

Anyway, Look for pics of my shed progress in the Off-Topic gallery of the L-G within the next couple of days. I was pretty much dead-on with the cost estimate; a few cents short of $150 with tax. That got me a 5lb box of 16-penny hot-dipped galvanized nails, a 5lb box of 8-penny hot dipped galvanized nails (those can be used with pressure treated wood, right?), nine 2 x 6 x 8ft pressure treated boards (for the joists), two 4 x 8 x 23/32" sheets of pressure treated plywood, and four 8" x 8" x 16" cinder blocks.

The rest of the shed will not be pressure treated. Our existing pre-fab shed used standard wood AFAIK but my shop teacher always said to use PT wood for the flooring in a shed, though in class we used OSB and regular pine joists for cost reasons. OSB isn't known for holding up in wet locations lol. If moisture finds its way in somehow it wouldn't take long for it to swell up and buckle or even get soft and rotted. And if that happens, the shed is toast. Never, never, never skimp on the flooring for a shed! Other things you can get away with but the shed is only as good as the floor. So this next week or two I need to work out a plan for the walls and roof. I'm going to do the walls and then work out the specifics for the roof but I want to have a good idea on the roof beforehand so I can work fast. I haven't decided on an official wall height. I'm thinking around 7ft. Whatever the overall height of the door is plus a few inches. The roof will be a 6/12 pitch gable for sure, since that's the easiest to make. I'll need to get specifics on how to install a sheet metal roof since I've never seen one installed before. I've only worked with shingles, but for a shed, I'd rather go with metal if it's cheaper and lighter. If I install it right I'll never need to worry about leaks either.

 I think I might use this door.  (http://www.lowes.com/pd_740810-77999-740810_1z0tnla__?productId=999918488&Ns=p_product_price|0&pl=1)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 27, 2016, 11:07:24 PM
Yeah, I've honestly never seen a 5000K-lit Walmart, but I remember hearing about the changeover.  I personally choose to avoid Walmart for personal/ethical reasons I won't get into here, so I don't know much about the lighting there.  Instead, I patronize Fred Meyer, lit by 3500K.  

I rewired the Metalux/Gibson troffers in my office to be separate from each other today.  I opened up the one I made into a 3-lamp fixture and its guts are still fine even after almost 3 years of long hours of running hot.   One of my Chroma 50 lamps started acting odd today (Might have gone EOL but not in the normal way) so it got swapped with a PowerTwist Vita-Lite I have.  I love the Vita-Lite, it blows the Chroma 50 away in terms of light quality, it just "feels" nicer, making the Chroma 50 look very artificial and quite frankly, like crap in general LOL.  Even with a 50/50 mix of C50 and Vita-Lite.  Makes me want to find some more Vita-Lites, but I'm thinking I'll like Chroma 75 even more, which I'm in the process of looking for.  (I've found a few sources but they're expensive).  I think I'll get two to start with and make sure I like them, then get a few more, and a few more, and a few more, and a few more, rather than spend 300-500 dollars (literally!) on a whole case at once.  I also found a source for F20T12/C75 and F96T12/C75 when that time comes (fixtures installed that aren't up yet). 

How'd you transport the lumber, Mike, having only that little Buick? Borrow someone's pickup or flatbed? 

Metal is easy, just "overlap" the sheets.  Does that make sense? 



Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 28, 2016, 03:14:03 PM
Well my dad has a pick-up. He drove me there and helped me load and unload the truck. I finished the decking! Went out there about 10:30 this morning and finished by 2:30PM so not that bad! Setting the cinderblocks was a real b!tch though; getting them all level. Our yard has about 4 or 5 inches of "good" soil, used for the grass. Below that is just a crap-load of rocks and clay. I ended up getting out a pickax to bust up the ground lol. The cinder blocks are 8X8X16; I set them in the ground sideways, so that they're 16" tall. The ground is sloped where I'm putting the shed, therefore some blocks had to be deeper than the others. I wanted the block buried the least to be at least half-way buried to ensure a solid footing. I have pics posted on LG (see the off-topic section of the gallery).

Anyway, the shed is officially 96" wide and like 94" deep. I set the front two cinderblocks too close to the back two so the front of the shed would have been unsupported. Rather than dig up those damn blocks (again, mind you) I just decided to trim about two inches off the header joists so they ended on the blocks lol. As of now, the project is going great. Next it's time for the walls. I'm going to use 2X4s 16" O.C. with T1-11 as sheathing/siding. I'm rusty on making the top part of the walls where the roof is and the roof itself. I'll have to work out the kinks and hope all goes as smoothly as it did today. The platform is rock-solid as of now. And level too! If the cinderblocks settle I may have to to shim the platform to keep it level.

I'm sure it is very easy to install, but I've never done it before so I don't want to do it wrong and ruin my shed lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 28, 2016, 10:17:16 PM
Sweet!  Did you have the assistance of a nail gun?

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 29, 2016, 06:48:43 AM
Nope, all hammer-and-nail! I did use a circular Skill saw to cut the wood though. Nothing else was electric.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 29, 2016, 11:53:15 AM
When we did the floor for ours (It's still at this phase yours is at) we did use a nail gun and a chop saw.  I think the subfloor got nailed by hand though, although I wasn't around when my dad did that part.

Ours is going to have a gambrel roof, though.  It will need it for the extra storage space above, though.  And I'm trying to wrap my mind around creating shop space on the property I might be living on while in college.  There's the house and a few small outbuildings, but no garage/shop/barn.  The friend I was visiting over Christmas suggested I add indoor parking of some sort when I explained I was looking for a Deuce (They had a bunch of old army trucks too I might add) and would be living in interior Alaska and driving the truck all the time LOL.  It was a good point, I'd need shop space anyway, knowing me.

Not sure what I'll do but it'll probably be totally freestanding from the house, if I even get that place to begin with.  Ideas?  Even 12X20 would probably work.  There's no "end" of the driveway to logically put it at, since it's a circular driveway AND the neighbor's driveway crosses the property.  It's basically the last house on the road, but not QUITE...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 29, 2016, 09:15:15 PM
Ah yeah the pre-fab shed we have has a gambrel roof. I'm doing a gabel roof just because it's the easiest. My favorite style roof is a hip. I also like mansard roofs. My shed walls are going to be 90" from the bottom of the bottom plate to the top of the double-top plate (studs will be 88.5" each). The roof will have 2X4 rafters with a 6/12 pitch. There's going to be five of them spaced at 16" each (plus one at each end, so seven total). The cost of the wall studs (50 2X4s, 10 4x8 sheets of T1-11, a door, 8 1x3x8 furring strips, box of 16-penny hot-dipped galvanized finish head nails, 10 hurricane clips for the rafters (easier than toenailing the rafters), the 2X6X8 ridgeboard, and exterior caulk is going to come out to about $580. Add that to the $100 spent on the floor and that eats up around $700 of my $1000 budget. The only things left after that would be the 2X4 rafters, the 1X4 furring strips that will run perpendicular to the rafters to support the sheet metal roofing, and the materials for the roofing itself. No idea how much the sheet metal roofing stuff will cost because I don't even know what I need! Obviously I need the roofing sheets themselves, but what about the rest of the stuff? Like endcaps, ridgecaps, drip edge, etc? The roof is the hardest part for me personally. I can lay out floors all day long and walls aren't too much harder either. The roof: forget it lol. I can lay out the rafters and do all the lumber parts but when it comes time to shingle or use another roofing material I get lost.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on February 29, 2016, 11:16:31 PM
@GEsoftwhite100watts:
Yep.. all 5000k, at one time they had 4100k (actually I remember one store being all 2x8' T12 slimlines too...then that one got downgraded to these stupid-looking T8 retrofits)
I personally make somewhat of a point to shop at Walmart :lol:


@Mike:
Just checked out the shed pic's. Nice beginning.
Last time I built a shed everything was nailed by hand as well.

If I ever did it another it'd be all screws (driven in with a drill ofcourse) 8)
And I'd again just use standard asphalt shingles like I did before (dirty work, but not all that hard)... I'd also keep it to whatever the minimum recommended slope was (just a personal preference)


----------------------
I picked up 6 2-lamp 4-foot fluorescent fixtures for free on the weekend (nothing special in all cases), they're now sitting out against the side of the house...where they will remain til spring
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 01, 2016, 12:24:12 PM
What are they and what ballasts/lamps did they come with?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on March 01, 2016, 10:06:09 PM
1 was a standard 2xF40T12 striplight (if I remember right it had one of those green/yellow label Universals)

2 were wraparounds (both missing the plastic cover)
2 were those 'lightpuff' type fixtures (one missing cover, other cover cracked so I trashed it)
1 was either a different style wrap, or some other decorative type cover
^of those 5:
2 had  this ballast  (http://www.lighting-gallery.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-117457)
1 had  similar to this  (http://www.lighting-gallery.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-52656)
1 had the standard white/blue label Advance F32T8 instant-start that you see around.
(& on 1, the channel cover was fully installed so I left it alone)

Lamps were 2 Sylvania F32T8/741, and 4 of  these "westinghouse"  (http://www.lighting-gallery.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-117498)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 01, 2016, 11:06:09 PM
The striplight sounds like a good score!  I've been dying to find a 2X40 strip like that for years now.  Especially if it has a nice vintage HPF ballast. 

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on March 01, 2016, 11:35:38 PM
Yep HPF ballast, I think a fairly modern one(I didn't look at it real close), but still a good one :)
Has a busted lampholder, & one end of the fixture is somewhat smashed...but nothing that pliers & a hammer can't fix.

I've passed up plenty of 2XF40 strips at garage sales, they're fairly easy to come by here (plus I don't have much storage space left for any more fixtures (but will always take free ones!))
LOL if you lived here I'd just give you this one after straightening out the end & testing it.

The other various fixtures would be fine for a garage or shead...gonna see if my brother still needs any shoplights for his garage, if he does he can have some...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 02, 2016, 12:14:29 PM
Shame I don't live in Colorado LOL.

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 02, 2016, 03:52:32 PM
@ xmas: Thanks! Yeah I really tried on the floor deck/platform since the next step can only be done as well as the last one. The shingles look like but that's just not my thing. The sheet metal will be easier I think (and hopefully cheaper...) though I'm thinking there will be a lot of waste since the panels come in 4x8 and the length of the hypotenuse of the roof is like 4.5 feet so nearly half the sheet is wasted. I know you can overlap side-to-side and the seams won't be easily detectable but up and down the seams will be very noticeable and won't look as good. Another option is using clear plastic panels (they have a shape similar to wavy potato chips).

Nice score on the fixtures! I'm trying to cut back on my fixture accumulation too but that's sorta the reason I'm building this shed: STORAGE! LOL. I haven't decided on a light fixture for inside my shed yet. It's likely going to be a 2X F40T12. Maybe I'll mount one of my highbays up there for the fun of it lol. Can you imagine 400W MH inside a shed with no windows? All that light trapped inside lol. (I was going to add a window but they'd easily add another $150 to the shed and making my own would make that spot a leak hazard). I want a fixture that won't end up being infested with bugs. I guess I'll decide which of my fluorescent lights I like best out in the shed once it's done. If I have any funds left in the budget, I'll wire up the shed and then splice a cord into the wiring and plug in the shed when I need it. Either that or I'll use a 15A 120V "Inlet", which is exactly the opposite of an outlet. It's a single 15A household outlet but it has prongs instead of slots. It's designed for an extension cord to be plugged into it. That way when I don't have the shed powered up, there's not an unsightly cord. Plus, when I move the shed to my own house someday, I can install a regular outlet there or put a blank cover on the box.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 02, 2016, 09:03:12 PM
LOL sounds like you're starting  a weed-op...400w MH in a shed LOL.  Just kidding of course.

A preheater would be perfect in there. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 02, 2016, 09:30:01 PM
LOL I was thinking the same thing (not of doing it, obviously, just that image crossed my mind lol). Yeah either a 2X F40/RS or a 2X F40/PH.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 02, 2016, 09:56:07 PM
I need to find a F40 preheat fixture myself one of these days...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on March 02, 2016, 10:46:35 PM
@Mike:
I've seen those wavy plastic panels. they'd be better for a greenhouse or patio cover than a shed in my opinnion!
They do make metal roof panels in 10' lengths too, that'd be pretty much perfect for what you need.

400w MH in a shed .. same thought crossed my mind as GEsoftwhite100watt LOL (although in reality it'd be a couple 1000 watters) You could "legally"  do that here(to me it'd be a waste of a good shed LOL).
A window isn't worth an extra $150. In the day it'll still be plenty bright even without a light in there.
I've never seen or heard of an 'inlet' before :o cool that such a thing exists.

---
Yep. can't give up free fixtures even if they are just common things LOL they're just gonna sit out against the side of the house til spring though, when I can get out the hose & give them a good cleaning & check over :) after that I'll find a better storage spot.
I'd love to find a 2xF40 preheater (have a few singles (something also gotten a few free years ago))
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 03, 2016, 03:19:37 PM
Hopefully I can order 10ft (or 5ft would be even better, since I'd only need to trim a little off though 10ft panels would would probably be cheaper in the end). Yeah windows are crazy expensive.

And yep!  Check it out!  (http://www.mirageinc.com/weatherproof-inlet-single-receptacle-motor-base-plug-15a-3778) Pretty nifty thing! I've seen them before but never knew what they were called. Typically they're on an electric-start snowblower or something like that. A little steep on the price compared to an outlet but I guess since it's got the cover built in it's not really all that expensive. I'm just not totally keen on buying stuff online since I'm always afraid I'm gonna get screwed one way or another (plus I prefer to always pay cash for stuff, so buying in person works out better. For the shed lumber I'm using my debit card though since I'd have to go to the bank to take out the money in cash anyway and it's a little risky keeping a few hundred dollars in cash in my wallet lol. At least with the debit card, if someone steals my wallet it won't do them any good without the PIN. I don't have my PIN written down anywhere so they'd never be able to use it. They could use it as a credit card since if you make a purchase under 25-30 bucks you don't have to sign (the card is in my mom's name anyway so even I can only use it for debit). I like debit better anyway since it's paid for when it's bought. I don't like the idea of buying it and then paying for it later. I don't wanna get f*cked with any fees or anything. I like to keep things simple; that's why I like cash.

Anyway, I'm going to try and get the lumber for the walls this Sunday and chip away at it throughout the week after school.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 04, 2016, 12:22:44 AM
Actually, the clear panels might be really good for a shed.   I'd almost suggest making the walls out of that stuff too!  That way you'll have plenty of light and it could also be used as a greenhouse later.  Just my 2 cents.

For the roof, make sure you get the VIRTUALLY UNBREAKABLE (yes, it really is!) polycarbonate stuff.  (The brand I've seen/used myself is "SunTuf".  You don't want snow weight breaking it.  For the walls, the cheapo Lexan "PalRuf" stuff will be fine though.  Just be careful not to put your foot through the wall!

Panels like that used to come in fiberglass, but I haven't seen any new installs with those in years.  In fact, last one would be at the house I grew up in, on a porch roof built in 2000.  It's a little more diffused too if you don't want neighbors seeing in the shed (Not that I think anyone would care, it's not your house).

I've seen those "inlet" things used on R/Vs before.  Same for the twist-lock 30 amp 120v plugs or 50A 240v plugs.  (The latter two are really common on boats, for hookup to shore power). 

I also like to pay cash for...pretty much everything.  I have a debit card but no credit card and don't want one.  I dislike the idea of paying for things with "imaginary" money.  I also refuse to take out student loans for college; I'll take a gap year first if need be instead.  I have some $$$ in a trust from my late mother's estate, in a MorganStanley trust account, that's invested, and honestly I don't even like the thought of that but I don't have any say in that until I'm 21/30.  I may, however, use some of it to buy a piece of property I'm looking at where I might live while in college.  (The same place my dad and I have been trying to buy since November). 

I'm also very simple when it comes to finances I guess.  As soon as I was 18 I went and opened my own bank account.  My dad and I had had an account before that that had both our names on it, which I still use as a savings account, and keep the minimum balance in it at all times, but I have my own, totally unrelated checking account. 

I've heard in the future banks may be charged by the government to operate (Don't remember the specifics but I can imagine) and thus they'll charge people to keep their money there!  If that happens I can totally foresee a return to a money-in-the-matress society LOL. 


Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 04, 2016, 09:39:31 PM
I don't want clear panels because I don't want people seeing my lights in my shed. Otherwise I might as well just store them out in the open under a carport or something. Yeah they're mainly used with trailors/RVs and boats.

The way it's going, it almost doesn't even make sense to use banks since they charge you lots of interest for loans and stuff but when you COLLECT interest from the bank, you're lucky if they give you 1%. In my opinion it should be equal. The only thing the bank has going for it is that your money is federally insured up to a certain amount per account. Keep it in your house and your house burns down, you've just lost every cent to your name unless it's all in a fire-proof safe.

Honestly, the smartest way to save is through gold. Gold will never lose its value like currency will. If you have $100,000 now and buy gold with that money, in 20 years if you were to cash that gold in for money, it will be worth more than $100,000 due to inflation of currency. It's the best way to protect yourself from inflation or if our currency were to go belly-up in general. If our stock market is totally obliterated or something goes severely wrong with our currency, there's a chance it could end up being worthless. And that $100,000 you have various savings accounts will suddenly be worth only the cotton/linen fabric its printed on. And if that money is in the bank, you technically won't even have the physical money because if the government "crashes" so to speak and our money is worthless, they won't be able to insure your loss to the bank, as the bank lends your money to others; the money you own in the bank doesn't just sit there accumulating dust lol. So having gold and keeping it in a safe place is the best option for financial security. At least IMO...

On another note, I got one of those six-lamp highbays from the Votech Building at my school today! It had its motion sensor removed from it unfortunately. It would have been cool to play around with it... It came with the lamps (six Sylvania FO32T8/841/XPS/ECO3 tubes. The ballasts are two three lamp Sylvania HBF instant start ballasts. That's 21,390 lumens!!! That's equivalent to a new 250W MH lamp at 220.8 watts consumed. Not much more efficient than MH actually, but much less heat and instant-on. The savings likely comes mostly from the fact that it was designed to be a motion-sensor unit. The lamps are rated at 36000 hours, about twice the average MH on the market. Plus the six lamps provides some redundancy. It's also about equal to a 400W MV lamp.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 04, 2016, 11:02:06 PM
Yeah, are you really worried about theft? I guess the streetlights and fluorescents do have some scrap-metal value...but to most it's "just an old streetlight". 

What about still using clear panels for the roof, though? (In lieu of a window)

Yeah, and the interest isn't simple either.  A little advice from someone who has watched their parents struggle with loans/money that isn't truly "theirs":  Avoid loans if at all possible! Student loans, mortgages on a house (especially refinancing), etc.  I could tell you some specific stories if you're curious but if so I'll email you; I don't want to share them in public forum.

You do have a good point about being federally insured.  I can see a bank going belly-up and you're screwed though.  But at the same time I prefer not to live in fear. The apocalyptic, "prepper" mentality drives me nuts.  I like the idea but sometimes it's over-the-top. 

I like your point about gold.  Any precious metal (gold, silver, etc)  As far as drastic inflation causing a currency to be more or less worthless, you may have seen the well-known picture in history/civics/social studies textbooks of a German housewife starting her wood cookstove with their currency; it was so inflated it was literally worth the paper it was printed on!  Ever seen that one?

Score!  Maybe put that in the laundry or utility room?  Which is brighter, your 2XF48T12/HO with the GE daylight lamps or the 3-lamp F32T8 highbay? I'm curious.

Remember talking about those inlet things?  While on the subject of weird wiring devices, just before coming home and posting this I was at a friend's shop they're building and they have these Leviton ceiling outlets you put in a standard 4" round box, since a standard duplex outlet WILL NOT FIT!  (I know, I've tried it myself and have one thus dangling by wires).  They only have one outlet but they're made with two.  I guess I've seen the latter before, but I didn't know what they were until now.  They'll be used for those Feit LED shoplights from Costco.  Okay fixtures actually but I still like my vintage '70s F40/RS shoplights better.   I could see using the LEDs in new installations though.  Everyone likes the 50,000 hour life, but when you think about it that's 2-1/2 sets of F40T12 lamps though; in commercial use fluorescents will last way longer. 

I still plan to light my house/garage/shop/outbuildings with linear T12 fluorescents for the rest of my life LOL.  Vintage F40/RS or F40/PH shoplights, 4' and 8' HOs, and F96T12 slimlines for me LOL. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 05, 2016, 06:54:30 AM
Not super worried about theft I guess, but I just want a strong sturdy non-see-through shed. I suppose I could for the roof but I'd feel better having metal. Maybe if the panels were translucent. Since direct sunlight would make it really hot in there and it would be very bright too.

My parents recently refinanced their mortgage on our house, but it was to get a lower interest rate. So my parents were smart about it. When we bought out house back in 2001 (before it was technically built) the market was really good. Therefore we had a high interest rate. When the market was tanked a few years ago, my parents refinanced their mortgage to take advantage of the lower interest rates so they will end up paying less.

I agree, no need to live in fear about government collapse. It will inevitably happen but hopefully not for a while.

It's actually a six-lamp highbay and it's WAY brighter than the F48/HO lol. It's like as bright as a 250W MH! Wow odd outlets for sure! In my house I was able to just stick duplex outlets in the ceiling boxes, though they're diagonal instead of straight.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 05, 2016, 02:04:11 PM
Interesting-sounding highbay.  Can you post photos?  Are you planning to install it anywhere?

Yeah, as long as you're smart about it I suppose. 

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 05, 2016, 02:11:47 PM
Pics were posted on Lg last night. :P
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 05, 2016, 11:37:01 PM
Alright, I think I will be taking the plunge and getting some C75s in the near future.  I think I'll get two first, just to try, and make sure I actually like the color, and if I do will slowly convert every 4' fixture in my house to 7500K lamps. 

I think once I install my slimlines I'll go for the Chroma 50 Watt-Miser slimlines, or some sort of Daylight Deluxe 75w.  (The 60w C50s are cheap for being high-CRI lamps, so I can live with them being 60w I think, plus they'll be really unique and I like having unique lamps in use). 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 06, 2016, 09:40:11 PM
Alrightly. I dropped another $600 for 50 2X4X8s, a 2X6X8 (ridge board), 10 hurricane clips for the rafters, the door, caulking and shims, 9 sheets of T1-11, a box of finish head 8-penny nails, and some one-by furring strip to use as corner strips for the four corners of the shed (you can't just leave the ends as exposed T1-11; looks awful and is basically a neon sign saying "Hey, make a leak here, rain!").

When I got home from work at about 8PM tonight, (hour and a half ago) I turned on the 175W street light on the existing shed and measured out all the 2X4s I need for the four walls. So tomorrow when I start framing out the walls, I just need to cut them and get to the framing! I will be building the walls over the course of Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday afternoon this week. Working from around 3PM to 7 or 7:30PM, breaking for supper. Hopefully I'm as fast or faster than I plan. 10-12 hours should be enough to frame and attach T1-11 to four 8ftX90" walls...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 06, 2016, 11:39:26 PM
Good thing you have the assistance of a cobrahead! 

Geez, you're burning the midnight oil on this thing!  Do you ever sleep, Mike? LOL...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 07, 2016, 06:44:06 AM
LOL 7:30PM ain't that late. :P ;D I go to bed at around 10PM and get up at 6:30AM during a regular school week. I get my 8 hours. 8) On the weekend I go to bed around 10:30PM and get up at 9AM-9:30AM.

I do want to get this thing done fast though so I can move my stuff in. However even once it's done, I still need to add shelving inside.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 07, 2016, 12:23:30 PM
Typo?  Thought you said you got home from work at 8:30PM? 

How many hours a week do you work anyway?  For me it's easily 8-10 hours/week. 

I have a weird schedule, being a senior with "Senioritis" so I set my alarm for 7:30AM, then go to bed anywhere between 7-10PM.  On weekends/non-school-nights (And I have 3 day weekends I might add, I have Fridays off) I go to bed at the same time but usually lay there listening to the radio, etc.  (Did you know I'm a fan of creepy conspiracy/UFO/alien/paranormal activity overnight talk radio? How about you?)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 07, 2016, 07:26:41 PM
Oh yeah last night I got home at 8:30 and spent an hour outside marking out the 2X4s. When I came home today I just had to cut and nail. I got two of the 4 walls installed, T1-11 and all. One of the side walls and the back wall. I screwed up on the back wall though; T1-11 was cut in the wrong spots. One end was an easy fix but the other I'll have to fudge when I put the pine trim boards on the corners of the shed I'll do that when all four walls are up... Two walls in one day ain't bad! I'm faster than I thought I would be lol. The shed is also taller than I imagined it too. Obviously I drew up the dimensions and the walls are 90" as planned but I pictures 90" being shorter lol. The shed is also elevated off the ground too so the 90" probably works out to be an even 8ft from the ground.

I tell ya though, my right hand is KILLING me from all the nailing. :( I bet it's gonna be SORE tomorrow. I might not end up doing much work if any tomorrow depending how my hand feels... Aside from the T1-11 being cut in the wrong places on the back wall, it's been a pretty smooth project. I know the roof will screw me up though lol. I'm just not sure how to "properly" build a roof at the ends. I got the rafters part but the soffit and fascia got me. I'm gonna watch some youtube videos on how to make that and take some notes. That's usually what I do when I need help understanding how to build something lol. I'm gonna have a 6" overhang/soffit on the sides and front and back. That will help keep rain and roof runoff away from the walls of the shed.

I work part-time at a grocery store so my hours and schedule vary week to week. For school, I'm in school from 7:30AM to 2PM.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on March 07, 2016, 10:29:45 PM
@GEsoftwhite100watts:
If you do find a good price on 7500k's post the link.

@Mike:
Cool that the shed is coming together..ofcourse there will always be those little 'issues' especially since its a 1st project.
The roof should be pretty easy. I could do it but would probably have draw it up first LOL.
YouTube would probably be a great place to look for things like that. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 07, 2016, 10:37:20 PM
Wow, your school is on "early" hours!  Do they do night classes too or something?

For a roof: Here's what I understand/what I'd do:  Put up your ridge pole, then install your rafters, but for the "barge" rafter (fascia on gable end) install it like any other rafter, end grain of the ridge beam exposed.  Probably will want to put the fascia on the ends of the other rafters up before that so you have something to attach it to on both ends.  Don't let the end grain of the barge rafter stick out past the fascia, or it will wick water from the drip line of the roof and rot.  In essence treat it like any other rafter/joist.  Is that what you're wondering?  Does my explanation in just words make sense?  

I think you need to see if you can borrow a nail gun, at least for everything except the fascia and T-111, if you can.  T-111 can be a pain to nail too if the groove lands on a stud, you'll have to use a nail set.  How do I know this?  Personal experience installing T-111 myself.  I hate T-111 but it's fine for a shed LOL. Are you planning to paint it, and if so what color?  

Did you build your walls in place or build them on the ground and then stand them up?  If on the ground did you do T-111 first before standing it up?  

It might be a little late and I know you're on low-budget mode here but if you can I suggest putting tar paper or Tyvek or Typar over the studs underneath the T-111.  But after all, I guess it IS just a shed LOL.  

Xmaslightguy, eLightbulbs has them for fairly cheap but their shipping takes awhile.  I think the ones here are full-mercury though, even though a bit pricier, and their shipping seems less complicated.  I think this is where I might buy from since they don't require a full case. 

http://www.buylightfixtures.com/ge-chroma75-fluorescent-light-bulbs.aspx (http://www.buylightfixtures.com/ge-chroma75-fluorescent-light-bulbs.aspx)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 08, 2016, 06:54:26 AM
I think I discovered all the roofing materials I need. (not the lumber, the metal stuff.) Will probably do a few sketches first.

As far as i know, that's a pretty standard time window for a public high school. It's not college so they don't offer a choice of morning/evening classes. If they did, I'd probably take the evening classes lol. The rough times for school in the RI area is around 7:30-2PM (some get out at 1PM but go in earlier) for high school, 8AM to 2:20PM was the time for my middle school, and 9AM to 3PM was my elementary school time. On the east side of Cranston where most of the kids walk to school, elementary was 8AM to 2PM. The reason for the staggered time for the three types of schools is for busing, since the city uses the same buses for all levels of school The bus driver picks up high school kids, drops them off at school, immediately goes and picks up middle school kids and drops them off at school, then goes and gets the elementary kids and drops them off at school. Then, if the driver has such a run, they will use a small bus and pick up the afternoon half-day kindergarten class and bring home the morning kindergarten class. Starting next year Cranston is having full-day kindergarten though, something I don't agree with. Kindergarten was hard enough at three hours long. You can't keep a bunch of 5-yr-olds busy for six hours...

The point with the grooves on T1-11 is that the nails are supposed to land on the grooves so they are not as visible. To nail them in, I would hammer the nail as best I could, lay another nail across the top of the one i nailed in, and hammer it in more using the sideways nail to push the other one in. Worked fairly well, though lots of times I ended up launching the sideways nail 50ft across the yard lol.

I built the walls on the ground, put the T1-11 on them on the ground, and then stood them up. When that was done. The walls are JUST light enough for me to pick up but I cannot move them around. If the walls were any bigger I'd need a helper. It's so much easier framing and sheathing the wall on the ground though.

Why the tar paper/tyvek? I would think in a shed you'd want it to be able to "breathe". I'm not concerned about moisture to that extent.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: lightingfan8902 on March 08, 2016, 11:43:32 AM
Hey my emergency light is supposed to come today, and its a Dual Lite Model EVHC6I LED emergency light with self diagnostics. I'll probably take a pic at it, and post it so you can see it.  :)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 08, 2016, 12:35:20 PM
I was in kindergarten from 11:20 to 2:40, normal elementary school from 8:20 to 2:40, then I moved here and had 8:30 to 3:00 on Mon-Thurs, then 8:30-1:30 on Fridays.  Then Fridays changed to 8:30-2:00.  Then they changed to a 4-day week (Mon-Thurs) with 8:00-3:30, but as a senior with a partial schedule I go in at 9:30.  (I have special permission to do so and transport myself to school).

I agree with you about kindergarten though, the attention span of a 4-5 year old is only so long!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: lightingfan8902 on March 08, 2016, 04:39:09 PM
Mike, I got my emergency light in today, and I also powered it on, to charge the battery, and it seems, that when I got it, it had maybe a almost fully charged battery, and right now, it has a green light on the bottom, meaning that I have a good battery, and everything, so anyway, its ready for an outage.
Title: Re: The Off-Topic Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on March 08, 2016, 06:52:54 PM
I was in PM kindergarten, from 12:15 to 3PM. AM kindergarten was 9AM to 11:45AM. My schooling has always been five days a week and the times are the same Monday through Friday. I drive myself to school now that I have a car.

@ lightingfan8902: Sounds cool! How does it self-diagnose itself? The new exit signs in the votech building at my school have the self-diagnostics too.

BTW, I got the third wall up on the shed today. I didn't have the energy to start on the fourth though; I'll do that tomorrow. I had a friend from school (he's in my construction class) come over and help me install this wall since it was too f**king heavy lol. With the other walls I was able to just lift it up into place but this one I couldn't because the other walls were in the way. The last wall is gonna be a PITA to put up. But the fact that it will have the cut-out for the door will make it a little lighter. Not very much but it should be manageable... If not, my dad should be able to help me since it's his day off tomorrow. Then I'll have all four walls up before the nice weather disappears. It's gonna rain Thursday and I don't know my work schedule yet (will check Thursday) so I don't know which days I'm working. It's generally three days, 4 to 5 hours a shift.

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: lightingfan8902 on March 08, 2016, 07:03:29 PM
Mike, yes its a self diagnostic one, it will tell me when to change the battery or it will let me know if theres something wrong with it. Besides its a Dual-Lite EVHC6I with the Spectron circuitry, and its bright!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on March 08, 2016, 07:55:38 PM
@lightingfan8902:
Sounds cool... deff post a pic of it when you get the chance

@GEsoftwhite100watts:
I checked out those links for C75 .. still kinda pricey LOL but they are a somewhat hard-to find lamp.
I did a bit of looking around myself too, and found a F32T8 version also exists (I didn't know that)

@Mike:
I think those times you posted for high/middle school were similar to what it was here back when I was in it....but ofcourse that was so long ago I really don't remember now.

Back years ago when I did a shed I built the wallframes on the ground then moved them into place. Same for the roof (which was really just like a wallframe...though I don't remember if I actually faught the whole 10x20' thing into place, or did it as 2 10x10' sections(probably the latter LOL))
I used real siding that matched the house's type, and put all that on after everything was framed.

If I ever was to do a 2nd shed, I'd be going for cheapest & easiest LOL not needing to match the house. Would just use that siding that comes in 4x8 sheets(not sure if that's the stuff you guys call T1-11) probably wouldn't bother with any windows either.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: lightingfan8902 on March 08, 2016, 08:13:28 PM
I'll see, if I can, I promise.  ;D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 08, 2016, 09:34:33 PM
Yep, I was in PM kindergarten too then.

Yeah, and the T8 version is like 1/3-1/2 the price of the T12 version! Are you planning to get some? 

T-111 is that groove plywood siding that's supposed to look like vertical planks. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on March 08, 2016, 09:54:00 PM
Quote from: GEsoftwhite100watts
Yeah, and the T8 version is like 1/3-1/2 the price of the T12 version! Are you planning to get some? 
I might...not right away though, but I think I'll bookmark sites for later :) In this case I'd prefer T12, but I'm fine with T8 especially considering the difference in price.


Quote
T-111 is that groove plywood siding that's supposed to look like vertical planks. 
Ok I've seen that plywood before.
If I was doing it I'd just use that stuff that isn't 'real' wood (its cheaper & holds up fine here if you paint it)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 08, 2016, 11:58:28 PM
Here that pressboard stuff would turn into mush in months LOL.  Even T-111 doesn't do terribly well here.  Actually, I hate T-111.   :8)

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 09, 2016, 06:46:13 AM
T1-11 seems to do fine here as long as you get the all-wood kind, which I did. My sheets are 5/8" thick all-wood T1-11. They cost $30 a sheet so it better freakin last lol. Our 10x10 prefab shed has that pressed paper imitation T1-11 and if it's really rainy for a few days the stuff actually softens up. The stuff also rots from the bottom up, as the cut edge is not primed at the factory. When you use the imitation stuff it's really important to paint the factory edges and any cut edges you make before installing the panels. Also, you want to paint at least one inch on the side of the panel facing IN the shed because moisture has a tendency to draw upwards. With the end totally sealed with paint, this hopefully will not happen and greatly extend the life of that imitation crapola. Not to mention the imitation stuff ain't as strong either. Also, with the imitation stuff, if you set the nails below the surface of the sheet you pierce the coating on the face of the panel (much like drywall) and then water will get in there. Best thing to do is put globs of paint around all the nails right after you're done nailing. Then once the shed is done go back and paint the whole sheet.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 09, 2016, 08:33:41 PM
Got the fourth wall up! I'm ready for the roof framing!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on March 09, 2016, 09:25:28 PM
Like I say the 'fake' stuff does fine here if its painted...but Colorado being a dry climate helps that LOL

If you really wanted to make it last, you could use 'James Hardie' siding - cement fiberboard! Deff won't rot or anything, but its also expensive and somewhat of a pain to work with.. you'll also need a masonry blade in the saw to cut it.
The only weather I'm not sure how it'll hold up in would be large hail (does just fine (as in zero damage) with anything up to marble-sized though)


-------
@Mike:
Nice on having all walls up now!
Maybe time for an updated pic?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 09, 2016, 10:46:24 PM
I took pics today but it was dark out by the time I finished. I'll grab better pics during the daytime soon. The reason I wanted the walls done by today was because we have some rain coming tomorrow. So Friday (if I'm not working) I'll grab some pics. I need to finalize a plan for the rafters. I'm thinking 2X4 rafters spaced 24" O.C. with a 6/12 pitch. Do you think that's sturdy enough? The shed is only 8ft wide so the rafters will only be around 50" long. Nothing crazy in terms of span.  I'm thinking around 6" of overhang. I'm going to have a vented soffit on it.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on March 09, 2016, 11:17:32 PM
Rain (or snow) always seems to come when you have a project going on...

That should be plenty sturdy being only an 8' span.  Are you just going to make a basic open triangle, or build more of a truss?
Just wondering: why such a steep roof though? Half that would still fine.
Do you get allot of heavy wet snow?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 09, 2016, 11:54:23 PM
Should be fine unless you have EXTREMELY heavy snowload there.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 10, 2016, 06:52:02 AM
The rafters are going to be built like  this.  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlAj-pLksMg) The sheet metal roofing will also be done like  this.  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvDurqjtcYY) As for the steepness, I don't know what the minimum slope is here. 5/12 is typically the slope used here (So I'm thinking that might be the minimum) but 6/12 is just easier to work with mathematically since the rise is half the run.

We can get a lot of snow. Last winter there were numerous roof collapses in the RI area. With a metal roof though, the steep slope will allow the snow to just glide off the roof, since it's smooth. Will be a little dangerous for me to be up there putting the screws in though...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 10, 2016, 12:19:49 PM
That's why I like metal, the snow slides right off!

A friend from Oklahoma (Read: Tornado zone) came and visited and as I was taking them on a "tour" of my neighborhood they commented on the metal roofs:  "Gee, why don't they use those there, where the shingles just blow off?" 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 10, 2016, 03:09:42 PM
From what I've read online, metal roofing is actually MORE expensive than shingling the roof. It lasts longer but costs more upfront. If that's true, it would explain why it is not common.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 10, 2016, 09:57:38 PM
Does this mean a switch to shingles?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 10, 2016, 09:59:56 PM
I still want sheet metal.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 10, 2016, 10:38:58 PM
I agree, that's the best option for you, particularly since this shed will have to eventually be disassembled and moved. 

Still looking for a fairly large property? 

Ever consider moving off the east coast?  Come to Alaska! LOL...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 11, 2016, 02:57:52 PM
I'm not looking at the moment. I'm only a senior in high school. Still gotta get through college before I get my own place. Wherever it is, it won't be too far away since it would be too expensive to move all my stuff!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 11, 2016, 11:05:31 PM
Well, some soon-to-happen remodeling of my home office entails removing those troffers and installing two slimlines, so I'm looking for lamps...I'll let you know what I get.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 12, 2016, 02:03:03 PM
OK well I'm debating whether or not I want to give up my six-lamp F32T8 highbay and install it at my grandpa's shop. Adding up the lumens, I wouldn't be able to replace the HO AND and slimline, but I could replace the HO with a couple extra 1000 lumens or I could replace two slimlines. I only want one slimline if any and I definitely want that HO. I'll have to think about it...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 12, 2016, 02:41:22 PM
Get one of each! And install them somewhere so they're out of the way if you can.  Your garage will be much brighter! 

If the slimline has 60w lamps use them up before buying 75w.  Why do I say this? I just spent 102 bucks for 4 Sylvania F96T12/DX.  They were like $6.45/ea but the SHIPPING!   And just for some run-of-the-mill 75w daylight lamps too, not something special.  Next time I might try ordering from someplace like Home Depot, even though I can't pick up in-store they DO mail things out around here. 

And for indoors, where these will be, 60w replacements should be fine, so I might buy 60w when I install my other slimlines then transfer the 75w lamps to those.  I can get 60w HL41s much more locally. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 12, 2016, 08:53:39 PM
Well, I put up one of the "slimmels" (credit goes to Nicksfans on LG for that word).  It actually was one of the easier fixture installs I've ever done...at least the mounting.  I wall-mounted it about 7 feet up on a wall in my office/hobby room.  It's resting on top of a door jamb (yeah, I took the easy way out) and secured with TEK screws.  I actually left the ballast in a slimline while hardmounting it, amazing! 

For supply connection I used some #12 multistrand "flat" stuff (like an appliance cord) since the wiring is exposed.  It lays flat nicely when stapled.  Probably not code complaint but it's common-sense compliant in my book.  I didn't have a cable clamp for the knockout so I know that would be a violation but the wire is otherwise well secured.  I even grounded the thing! 

Ballast in this one is a Universal/MagneTek "Universal Watt Reducer" for two F72T12 or F96T12 lamps.  Blue/yellow label.  Oddly it has the (E) for being EPACT complaint.  I should pull another ballast like that in the ones I have yet to install and check the date. 

I haven't wired it to power yet since I'm going to rewire this room anyway, none of the wiring is "behind walls" like it should be and was done by a 14-year-old at the time.  It's all stranded SJTW "Extension Cord Wire".  Which I'll probably use again since it's probably better than Romex for being left exposed, as long as it's done "right". 

I also finished more of the OSB poor-man's-drywall in here.  I'm building a shelf above where the desk will go, which will have another one of the Metalux slimlines under it and a Lithonia 2XF20T12 strip on the end of that.  Or maybe I'll use the Lithonia that fell, so they match.  I haven't decided.  Both of these will be lit with the Sylvania F96T12/DX lamps I bought.  The suspense waiting for them to arrive is killing me! 

The two troffers in here now...the three-lamp one will go in the garage above the band saw (it's a spot that would be great for lots of light, especially with a crappy LPF-ballasted wraparound a few feet from that part of the ceiling anyway as existing lighting...I'll just tie into it for power connections, then have five lamps in that area instead of two!  The 2-lamper with the perfect-looking Therm-O-Matic is going in the kitchen to light a dark spot, supplementing two existing Lithonia 2XF32T8 commercial-grade wraparounds. 

The other three slimlines:  One will go in the soon-to-be-built shed, the other might go in my own little shop I want to build.  Or in the hobby room/office if two isn't enough.  (I want it bright in here!). 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 12, 2016, 09:09:53 PM
Eh maybe lol. The slimlines are just 90s newish Lithonia fixtures so they probably have advance ballasts with a reduced BF. As for tubes, I'd leave him the working tubes and just get my own at Lowe's. I'd try to keep the HO tubes if I could though since they're pretty expensive. The HO is my priority but a slimline would be cool to own too. I don't want 60W tubes though. No way Jose.  the one or two 8ft fixtures would end up being stored on the stop shelf in my new shed.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on March 12, 2016, 11:52:26 PM
@Mike:
Keep that 6-lamper!

If you need F96T12 HO lamps see  my post  (http://www.lighting-gallery.net/index.php?topic=4698.msg33573) in the 'For Sale Or Trade' section of LG. I came across some good deals on eBay tonight.

I'm like you on 60w slimlines... no interest. I probably wouldn't even take them if I saw them for free LOL


@GEsoftwhite100watts:
eeek that's allot for slimlines.. even as nice as Daylight is!
You need a Lowes in your area...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 13, 2016, 09:05:24 AM
Yeah I kinda do want to keep it... Especially because it has high ballast factor (1.15BF) Sylvania ballasts. Wow! I checked out that guy you linked to. I would never buy linear fluorescent tubes on eBay though, especially 8ft'ers. Too unlikely that they'd arrive fully intact :( .

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 13, 2016, 01:37:29 PM
Well, Mike, then I guess some 75 watt slimlines are in your future! Get something cheap and modern at first, like Philips Alto Daylight Deluxe 75 watt. 
I agree about lamps arriving intact but I ordered my 8' lamps from an electrical/lighting supplier, so they probably know how to pack for United Parcel Smashers better than most do, so I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt. 

Xmaslightguy, there's some pre-EcoLux F96T12 GOLD lamps on eBay!  You should get those!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 13, 2016, 03:13:30 PM
Yeah Lowe's has Sylvania slimlines and HOs and Home Depot has Philips SLs ans HOs. Ideally I want full-wattage GE but full-wattage Philips altos still rate over GE watt-misers lol. If I were to get ES lamps, WMs would be it though. Sylvanias tend to be CWX and Philips doesn't make them anymore (for a good reason!). Maybe a small place like TrueValue or ACE has some full-wattage GE tubes. They're probably expensive if they do... I'll settle for Philips 8ft tubes over Sylvania since they're less likely to act starved (never thought I'd say that!) and the phosphors tend to be better too. Sylvania tends to have a grainy phosphor coating and they seem inherently more flickery for whatever reason.

Anyway, the HO rates over any of the slimlines for sure.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on March 13, 2016, 06:21:48 PM
@GEsoftwhite100watts:
I went and took a look at those F96T12 Gold's .. same seller also has GE F96T12 Red's!!, and  Damar F40T12 Blue's.
Either of the 8' slimlines would be cool to have...but overall they're just too much $$ (I put the red slimlines in my watchlist though :) )

I did order some F96T8 HO lamps from the one seller with a bunch of cheap stuff...hopefully they arrive in one piece LOL
The F96T12 HO Daylight lamps were tempting too, if I didn't already have plenty of spare cool-white, I woulda ordered some of those too.

--
@Mike:
That 6-lamp overdriver fixture is too good to give up LOL

Lowes has T12 slimlines in i believe: 3500k, 4100k, 5000k, 6500k (atleast I know they used to have all those, though I havent really looked at their 8' lamps in a while, there was even a time they even had 3000k). They also have T8 slimlines & T12 HO, but both only in 4100k.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 13, 2016, 09:56:04 PM
Maybe I should start looking more closely on eBay...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on March 13, 2016, 10:13:10 PM
@GEsoftwhite100watts:
Yep...now & then you can find some deals on there.


I also just ordered a couple F24/F48 HO RS ballasts.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 13, 2016, 11:19:21 PM
Sweet! Got an immediate use for them?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on March 14, 2016, 06:43:46 PM
@GEsoftwhite100watts:
Nope, no plans at the moment, just too good of a deal to let pass by.
I might eventually make a 2xF48-HO fixture with one.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 14, 2016, 09:41:05 PM
That would be a neat fixture for sure!  I'd like to get a F48/HO someday myself.   
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 15, 2016, 07:40:25 PM
Yeah I love my F48/HO. Although I use mine with very used GE daylight 800 tubes, so it's about as bright as the F40/RS 1973 shoplight it replaced lol. The lamps put out a heck of a lot of heat too but the ballast runs with almost no warmth at all! Not sure how well it drives lamps but very well designed as far as heat sinking goes! All my F48HO tubes are used GEs from Aaron except for two Sylvania /CWs I bought new at Lowe's. Those are BRIIIGHT! But I heard Sylvania HOs dim really badly as they age. Like these F48s will probably end up being as bright as a pair of F34T12s. I really like the daylight tubes though so I'm gonna stick with those. When one dies I'll probably replace them both with two used GE /CWs to preserve the rest of the daylight GEs. I only have four of them. And four of the cool whites. Two of the Sylvanias I bought. And Aaron sent me two new GE F48CW slimlines. I haven't lit them up though since I only have the stationary slimline sockets. Don't have a ballast either but the HBF highbay's ballast would probably serve well enough to test the tubes without under driving them too much. Maybe I'll make a single lamp F48T12 slimline strip. Regular bi-pin strip lights are boring IMO but SL and HO strips in lengths other than 8ft are always cool! (8ft ones are cool too but they're fairly common so turrets or industrial 8ft fixtures are more interesting IMO.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on March 15, 2016, 08:31:47 PM
Yep, and I even already have some F48 HO lamps and F36 HO as well (actually thinking about it I've got those plus F60,F72,F84, and F96 too .. but only have 2 fixtures for the F96's, both of which are sitting un-used)
Maybe I'll make(convert actually) both a F48 & a F36 fixture :)
I would love in time to get the 'full series' of HO lamps....which I believes runs from 18"  to 10' in 6" increments.
I know it doesn't exist, but wouldn't it be cool if they made a F12T12 HO (or think about a F6T12 HO .. LOL)

@Mike:
For a 1xF48T12 slimline, you can just use a 2-lamp F32T8 instant-start ballast (wired for 2x overdrive) and it'll give close enough to a proper F48 slimline ballast that you wouldn't even notice any brightness difference.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on March 15, 2016, 08:34:47 PM
Quote from: xmaslightguy
I would love in time to get the 'full series' of HO lamps....which I believes runs from 18"  to 10' in 6" increments.

And the 'dream fixture' for such a setup would be a big triangular beast that would hold one of each size!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 15, 2016, 09:55:20 PM
Yeah, and I think you should trade the 6-lamp highbay for a HO and slimline, you'll have one of each!  Could install one or both in the new shed, though it might be a tight fit! 

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 16, 2016, 02:43:12 PM
They wouldn't fit installed. I would have to lay them on the top shelf diagonally. And yeah, the more I think about it the less I want to part with the six-lamp highbay.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on March 16, 2016, 09:33:53 PM
Yep. 8x8 shed is 8 feet on the outside, you loose 3.5" on each side for the walls, so really only 7'5" across on the inside....a 2xF84T12 fixture would be perfect LOL

@GEsoftwhite100watts:
Just for fun I did some more looking at C75's tonight...
Looks like you can get the T8 version for  $6 online (plus shipping ofcourse)
Looks like Grainger also has them for $6.25 (which in my case I think there's one around a 30 min drive away from me, so I could just pick them up saving shipping costs if I decide I want some :) ) Their T12's over $18 though :o

I did find one online place that has T12 C75's for $6, but they don't say what brand (might go for it anyway depending on what shipping is)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 17, 2016, 11:25:17 AM
Got a link for that one place by any chance?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on March 17, 2016, 07:43:58 PM
Yep: http://www.jedlights.com/F40T12C75-40-Watt-T12-Fluorescent-Bulb-7500K-90CRI-Major-Brand-P311.aspx
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 17, 2016, 09:44:30 PM
Looks like they still have a minimum quantity of 30, a full case....
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on March 17, 2016, 10:12:50 PM
I know the one page said 'minimum 30', but above that it also says "buy 2 to 4, save..."
It let me put 6 in a cart and go the first checkout screen. I didn't try going any farther since that would mean making an account.


------
Those 8' T8 HO lamps I ordered off eBay arrived today.. all intact and working :)
Got here pretty quickly!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 18, 2016, 11:36:13 AM
I'm still waiting to see my order of 4 Sylvania F96T12/DX has shipped. :8)

Maybe I'll try getting some C75s if I can get less than 30...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 18, 2016, 11:44:41 AM
I should also mention here I got to witness a somewhat interesting F40/RS EOL yesterday.  It was a Sylvania F40/CWP on a single-lamp HPF ballast; those can be interesting at EOL.  Kinda violent on the lamps.  At one point it was "rectifying" even though it's HPF, but more violently...kind of like the T8-in-a-T12-fixture kind of flicker.   It then went to dim-glowing and flickering.  Still not as exciting as an EOL lamp on a 2-lamp-shunted-for-1 ballast, I've experienced that too.  It usually won't make a lamp lose vacuum but you still get lots of wild orange/purple flashing and arc snaking at the "bad" end. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 20, 2016, 08:27:15 AM
I stayed in a cabin this weekend that had 2X F32T8 Lithonia fixtures (with CrappuPro ballasts, though all actually worked...). Lamps were all daylight except two that were 3500K. One room had all GE SP65 F32T8 ecoluxes, another room had all Sylvania /865 tubes, and the main dining room had a mix of fixtures and lamp brands (some were Philips T8s, including the 3500K tubes, and the rest were silver ended, either GE or Sylvania).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 20, 2016, 12:43:32 PM
"CrappuPro"...that had me laughing really hard!  Nice to see 6500K in use there, though! Hopefully this coming weekend my slimlines will arrive and I'll have my first linear 6500K fluorescents in use! 
Title: Re: The Off-Topic Topic!!!
Post by: Mike on March 20, 2016, 03:51:03 PM
Yeah I have to say, the more I see 6500K installations, the more I like them. Not a huge fan of the daylight tubes in a "wood finish" room though (T1-11 walls, wood plank floor & ceiling; that cabin would go up like a Roman candle if it ever catches on fire lol). I would have liked /WW or /W better. Daylight T8s seem pretty uncommon around here. Probably the least common of the major colors honestly.

However, the room with the Sylvania lamps in the fixtures didn't have those fixtures the last time I was there. That room had thre 2X F40/RS Mercury Lighting strip lights.  See here.  (http://www.galleryoflights.org/mb/gallery/displayimage.php?album=365&pos=51)  And here.  (http://www.galleryoflights.org/mb/gallery/displayimage.php?album=365&pos=53)  and here.  (http://www.galleryoflights.org/mb/gallery/displayimage.php?album=365&pos=54)  And here.  (http://www.galleryoflights.org/mb/gallery/displayimage.php?album=365&pos=55)  And here.  (http://www.galleryoflights.org/mb/gallery/displayimage.php?album=365&pos=56)

I had brought three F40T12s to fix these strips if they still didn't work 3 years later and even brought a pair of F32T8s and a ballast in case there was a bad ballast. Instead I found they had been removed and four new wraps were installed down the center of the room (the F40 strips were mounted along one side of the wall for some reason). The cabin was built in 1976.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on March 20, 2016, 04:33:38 PM
@GEsoftwhite100watts:
Sounds like that was a pretty good EOL show

I might try frying an EOL F40 with one of the F48 HO ballasts I just got


@Mike:
I agree on Daylight in a room with woodwork, it doesn't look all that great LOL
WW is a much better choice for making the wood look nice.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 20, 2016, 09:03:29 PM
Too bad about those Mercury strips!  Those were some nice fixtures. 

I like daylight partly because it's so uncommon, to be honest!  I'd ideally like everything in my house to be 6500K or 7500K. 

Daylight and wood...depends.  I have a Philips FC8T9/DX (6500K, 79CRI) and wood looks fine IMO.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 21, 2016, 09:32:54 AM
Well, we got a surprise snow storm today. Two inches of snow inside my unfinished shed. >:( Hopefully it melts fast. I'm getting the rafters on by the end of this month hopefully.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on March 21, 2016, 07:50:46 PM
@Mike:
We got 6" of snow Friday...was probably the leftover storm from here that you got LOL
I'd say don't just let it melt, get a snowshovel & clear it out.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 21, 2016, 08:03:48 PM
It actually got up to 50 degrees today and it's all melted already! lol
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 24, 2016, 09:17:41 PM
Same here, but without the snow.  Enough to finally let the woodstove go out!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on March 24, 2016, 10:31:48 PM
@Mike:
You've probably got more snow on the way...

We just got 12"+ of heavy wet snow and wind too here yesterday.
Pretty much shut the city down LOL
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 25, 2016, 09:19:20 PM
Ha!  Here, 12" is nothing, but we haven't had much snow the last few years...maybe 6" at a time and it melts completely between events.

I'm having my dad see about picking up some F96 slimline lamps for me since he frequents hardware stores more often than I do.  Probably will be GE or GE-made True Value brand 60w HL41s, but better than nothing...and they'll be used indoors in a room that's frequently as much as 70-80F. 

Might still get some Chroma 75s...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 25, 2016, 09:50:49 PM
It's staying in the 50s and 60s all next week so whatever we get will be rain thankfully.

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on March 25, 2016, 09:55:55 PM
@Mike:
If just rain maybe you should put a tarp up as a roof (probably a not a real big deal if its not a whole lot of rain, but even plywood will start to fall apart(separate between the plys) if it gets too soaked)

GEsoftwhite100watts
12"+ in my area but up to 2-feet in some places, 19" in the city ... I think it was the wind/blizzard conditions (& how fast it was coming down at times) more than anything that caused issues LOL

Because yeah a foot of snow by itself isn't too big of a deal. I'd call 6" or less to be a 'normal storm'
In general we don't get all that much snow here.


I thought you had some Daylight F96's on the way?
You need a HomeDepot, and/or a Lowes... then getting "real slimlines" ie: 75w would be no problem! Simply go to the lighting aisle & pick your color.

I eventually want to get some C75's, but am gonna hold off for a bit...probably end up being T8's unless that one online place actually does singles.

---
The Habitat ReStores here have a 25% off everything sale tomorrow, I plan on stopping by one...depending on how much snow we get tonight ofcourse.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 25, 2016, 10:28:19 PM
@Mike, yeah, you don't want your plywood to de-laminate!

@Xmas, yeah, but the place I ordered them from seems to be a joke, after I never saw my order tracked at all and they never sucked the 102 bucks out of my bank account I reordered, but same thing.  So I'll just settle for something cheap and local. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 26, 2016, 10:21:41 AM
The floor is pressure treated so I would be good there but I see what your saying about the T1-11. Within the next couple of weeks I plan to get the rafters up. Once the rafters are up I can tarp the roof, as I'll have a pitch to let the water run off.

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 26, 2016, 02:25:34 PM
Yeah, I'm excited to see photos of the finished product! Did you ever decide on metal vs. polycarbonate for a roof?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 26, 2016, 03:03:16 PM
I was never considering a plastic roof. I want something opaque and that won't heat the shed up too much. A lightly-colored sheet metal roof covers both those requirements. I just need to come up with a sawzall and probably another person or two to help me.

BTW, I went to the Restore today. They had a full case of 90s looking F34CW/WM lamps (black etch in a patriotic looking 10-pack case) and some newish fixtures. I actually ended up getting five NIB MaxLite LED lamps (11W, 800 lumen) for $1/each and a used OSRAM 8.5W 800 lumen LED for 25 cents. they had a ton of the 11W Maxlites as well as 40W= MaxLites too. They also has 3-pack R40 Maxlite LEDs that were rated for some 600 lumens for $9/pack. The regular A19 ones I bought were $2/each but she only charged be $1/each. I took the OSRAM lamp out of a table lamp and stuck a CFL in it instead lol. All these LEDs have metal bases too, not plastic. So they're at least a couple years old. The Sylvania/Osram ones I bought at Lowe's recently are all plastic. Interestingly, the Osram one from the Restore makes a note that it is "HPF HIGH POWER FACTOR". I know most CFLs are not HPF but I guess LEDs generally aren't either. I guess they make commercial grade LED that are HPF with edison screws?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on March 26, 2016, 03:37:52 PM
@Mike:
I forgot about the fact you said the shed floor was pressure treated wood... so yep it'll be fine. the only thing that'd maybe worry, would be the top edge of the T111 (and only if it was going to be one of those rains that lasts all day, or especially a couple days)

Instead of a sawzall you can also use a circular saw - put in a metal cutting blade. I've done that when making fixtures in the past.

Nice score on those LEDs

-----
I stopped by the local ReStore for their sale today... Nothing good (which isn't surprising considering they no longer take donations of fluorescent lamps or fixtures (except new stuff sometimes))
Only thing I picked up was some trays for starting seeds (for me),  and a 277v Motorola ballast (may go to Kev in the UK)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 26, 2016, 06:25:32 PM
Ah OK. Yeah the top edge of the T1-11 will be concealed by the soffit once the shed is finished. I honestly have no motivation to finish it now. :-\ It has to get done though...

Yeah if I knew I was only gonna be charged $1 per lamp I'd have gotten ten instead of five lol. I don't mind LEDs if they're free lol. they're decent as far as multi-directional lighting is concerned but not perfect. They'd work fine in most fixtures though. They're dimmable when used with "certified" dimmers. They reference a link to their website on the carton showing the acceptable dimmers the lamps can be used on. I'm assuming a standard incandescent dimmer is not good for them.

BTW,  Check this  (http://www.lighting-gallery.net/gallery/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=0&pos=1&pid=118488) and  this out! (http://www.lighting-gallery.net/gallery/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=0&pos=0&pid=118489) :D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 26, 2016, 07:38:38 PM
Yeah, interesting ReStore scores and interesting story on that place you linked to!  I would've bought that case of 34w Watt-Misers if it was cheap. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 26, 2016, 08:01:25 PM
The case was $10 ($1/bulb). If I had the room I'd get it. If it's still there after the shed is finished I might consider it. Maybe I'll get the case, swap two of the lamps for those Ecolux F34T12s I have and keep the two non-ecolux F34s and give the case to my grandpa. Those fixtures use 0.73A ballasts so they're fine for F34T12s. They originally had F34T12s too, which is probably why they're a little troublesome starting. Aaron noted that with all the lighting maintenance he's done, he can usually tell if a store had F34T12s for awhile and then the place went back to F40T12s since after running F34s, the ballasts seem permanently affected.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on March 26, 2016, 08:07:14 PM
@Mike:
Once you're back out there on a nice sunny day with hammer in hand, the motivation to finish it will return :)

Yep for a buck, you can't complain on those LEDs :) All you need is a dimmer rated for LED (Incandescent dimmer might be fine if it still has atleast one incandescent on too)

Just checked out your streetlight links!


Quote from: GEsoftwhite100watts
  I would've bought that case of 34w Watt-Misers if it was cheap. 
LOL even if they were free I woulda left them right where they were! Not a fan of those things.
If they were vintage blackender with the big 'Econ-O-Watt' etch (or Red-etch GE) then I deff woulda bought some :)


---------
I was noticing something today with the neighbor's shed...the siding (lets call it "fake T111" just for the sake of things)  is deff starting to rot at the bottom. But they don't take care of it, shoulda been painted years ago, and they frequently leave the doors open so rain/snow/etc gets inside.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 26, 2016, 08:24:38 PM
Yeah. Part of the reason I'm not super motivated to finish it is because I've always found the roof tricky when building stuff in construction shop lol. I'm a little out of my element once I get to the roof.

Yeah I want to find some way to "rescue" at least a pair of those lights.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 26, 2016, 10:11:23 PM
BTW, check these pages out for more Ladd School pics if interested.

http://www.urbexforums.com/showthread.php/4534-Home-for-the-Eternally-Doomed-The-Ladd-School

http://www.abandonedamerica.us/photo23612501.html#photo

http://adventureswithmeg.weebly.com/ladd-school.html

http://www.insanebunkers.com/index.php?topic=1280.0

http://www.nickcharello.com/The-Ladd-School/
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on March 26, 2016, 11:54:34 PM
Creepy creepy haunted place! I don't think I'd have the guts to go in somewhere like that...deff not at night :o

When looking through pictures on those links...I found myself looking for lights on the ceilings LOL
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 27, 2016, 08:40:28 AM
Yeah I never knew the stories of people getting mugged in there by people from the Job Corps and Phoenix House. All the vacant buildings have been demolished though so unless people are just chilling out in the woods I have nothing to fear going there to get some lights (other than the cops lol). Apparently they kept a pretty close eye on the place before the buildings were demolished but I don't know about now, seeing that there's nothing but vacant land and the remaining three buildings are still used.

BTW, yeah I was looking at the pictures in search of lights too lol. They had some nice looking (well, all rusty but nicely designed) wrap lights and recessed squared with drop dish diffusers. They actually had a recessed square fixture at the ReStore but I stupidly passed on it. It was new in the opened box but I don't have use for it. But on the way home I regretted not getting it.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 27, 2016, 09:24:21 PM
Wow, that place is creepy!  Just looking at the pictures alone kinda grosses me out! Did you catch the description about the dental clinic!

It's such a stereotypical thing though, the freaky abandoned insane asylum! And in 23 years look how much it's deteriorated...roof clearly completely gone in places if ceilings are falling from rain damage. 

Did you see all the vintage lighting, though?  Bet there's a lot of old preheat and rapid start and slimline fixtures in there...wonder if any would still work?  Every time I see a building like this I wonder what would happen to things if power was applied again without inspecting anything.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 28, 2016, 05:47:57 AM
Creepy, yes, but I would have loved to go exploring inside! ;D From the looks of it, the place was heavily vandalized but damage to the lighting seemed to have mostly been by "natural causes".

I mostly saw incandescent and rapid start fixtures but I'm sure there was the occasional SL or PH hanging around. I really liked the diffuser on those wraps in the big open room. They remind me of the wraps in my elementary school, which use a Holophane injection-molded diffuser.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 29, 2016, 11:01:27 PM
Yeah, as far as vintage institutional buildings are concerned, I secretly hope they NEVER redo the older wing of my current school from '79.  Wood-plank plywood paneling, all the lights are F40/RS, many with original PCB-laden ballasts, you name it!  Even the second wing, from '84/'85, is also all T12 and looks pretty retro.  I like retro architecture actually unlike many, I'd love to find a house with a '50s-'60s-'70s kitchen still all original. 

So I bought two Advance 3-lamp E-Pak 34 ballasts on eBay, for the 1X4 Metalux/Gibson troffers which came out of the aforementioned dated building from '79  One ballast will go in the one which is already 3-lamp, since it's currently powered by two ballasts that don't work quite right (One, a Universal Therm-O-Matic, is half-dead, shunted for one lamp, has a rusty case, and has frayed wires where they enter the case, and the other, an Advance Kool-Koil, trips its thermal protection after awhile; fire hazard with both of those ballasts in all reality.  That said I won't be tossing them either).  The other, which I'm typing under, has an absolutely perfect PCB-containing Therm-O-Matic which I will still replace with the other 3-lamp ballast and modify the lampholder brackets for a third lamp (some jigsawing with a sheetmetal blade is going to be involved).  The good Therm-O-Matic ballast...not sure what I'll do with it.  Maybe I'll use it to "Upgrade" one of my other shoplights or wraparounds with "BenchLite" style ballasts, or I might just keep it as a good spare.  The three-lampers are ultimately going to new locations anyway, one in a dark spot in my kitchen and one in the garage over the band saw; a 3-lamper will be perfect for the latter application!  The 34 watt lamps are going to suck in the unheated garage but inside a troffer they should warm up fast.  I think I'll have to buy some more 34 watt lamps unless I can scrounge some from elsewhere.  I'll also try these 34w-optimized ballasts with 40w lamps but knowing the electrical characteristics of the 34w T12 I doubt performance is going to be impressive with three 40w lamps...I may try one or two 40w mixed in with one or two 34w and see how well that works.

The best part?  For two ballasts, and shipping, it set me back a whopping $17.50 USD!  Ordinarily I'd say my lighting budget is shot right now but not for something cheap and quite frankly kinda unusual, like those ballasts! 

I've been spending less and less time on LG and GOL as I've gotten busier and busier with school, getting close to graduating.  Means applying for scholarships left and right, LOL.  Looks like I'll JUST be able to afford my first year of college...without student loans, which I refuse to take out.  Depends on work and if I get some money I loaned my dad repaid.  Getting little things figured out here and there, sometimes even GOOD surprises come up!  I may have (totally by accident, mind you!) run into someone I could rent a room from during my freshman year and then for my sophomore and junior years rent/house-sit for  if the place I've been trying to acquire within two hours of the university doesn't work out (We'll see, things are changing daily!  Even if it does I might be able to stay there during the week, within maybe a mile of the university, not a 2-hour, 100-ish mile drive.  (Remember all the streetviews of the not-quite-freeway-in-places Richardson Highway? That'd be a "freeway" I'd be commuting on if I end up living 100 miles away part-time.  Possibly screaming down the right-hand lane at 50MPH in a Deuce. 
Title: Re: The Off-Topic Topic
Post by: Mike on March 30, 2016, 03:37:48 PM
There's nothing wrong with a retro look but when it's not kept up with and there are a number of half-ass projects that have been done, it sorta looses its appeal to me.

Interesting on the three-lamp ballasts and even better they were such a low cost!

Not much in the way of new lighting for me save the LEDs I got.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on March 30, 2016, 09:00:28 PM
I was tempted to get a couple of those 3-lamp F34 ballasts on eBay. Certainly a good deal. Same seller I got my F48 HO ballasts from.

---
LOL if I got a house with a 50's or 60's kitchen (probably anything 80's or older actually LOL) I would gut it completely...most likely right down to the bare studs. First step of the re-construction would be all new wiring!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 30, 2016, 09:59:28 PM
Yeah, I'd only want a house like that if it wasn't in bad condition...otherwise it'd be a gut job.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 30, 2016, 10:11:35 PM
The kitchen and bathroom(s) are two that would probably be highest on my list of remodeling jobs if I bought a house. If I buy a house, unless it's relatively new, the first thing I will do is probably gut the bathroom. Then the kitchen. All new tub/shower, toilet, sinks, dish washer, stove, fridge, etc. I don't like the idea of those appliances being "second hand". Clothes washer & dryer would be new too.

I've been thinking about different ways I could get some of those lights. I could either try beating the poles down with a sledgehammer (I'd imagine it would break the concrete but the rebars would be a problem). Or I could dig up the ground around the poles (about 5ft deep; probably sounds way easier than it will actually be lol). Or I could find some way to get a ladder and get the lights off the poles without knocking them down. Even if I manage to break down or dig out a pole, odds are the weight of the light would make it fall forward and crush the light so it might be a lost cause anyway. I really want those Canadian street lights though! One of the poles had exposed rebar almost all the way around the pole about half way up. I could cut the rebars with a hacksaw and then leave one uncut and try to bend the top half of the pole downward...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 31, 2016, 09:24:11 PM
I'm not too picky unless it's in really bad shape.  If I was doing that though, or building a new house, the first room to be either remodeled or fully finished would be one of the bathrooms, then the kitchen, then the others.  I like retro architecture, though. 

I'd try to get permission first and see what you can do...just gotta go about it in the right way.  Usually you get laughed at, remember by story about the vintage F40 turrets and F96/HO in the scrap dumpster where I looked the place up in the phone book, called them and asked? I totally got laughed at LOL.

Might be able to work on the M-400A this June, I'd like to try and get it fired up, possibly for the first time in decades!  Any idea what Home Depot will gouge me for a 250w HPS lamp?  If the guts don't work (probably bad ignitor) I'll probably leave them in place but bypass them and wire the socket straight to the mains and use a large CFL, in preparation for probably eventually remote-ballasting it to 175w mercury.  We'll see how much tinkering time I actually get in the space of probably two weeks or less, I have to get wisdom teeth removed right after I graduate, then go down there, hopefully work on the M-400A, clean more of my stuff out of storage or at least dig through it, meet with a few people including the executor of my late mother's estate, hopefully meet with a couple other army truck hobbyists in the area, (As a beginner to the hobby and future owner I'll get the experience of seeing/climbing around on/driving in a few of them; something I need), as well as connecting with a bunch of old connections in the area.  It'll be a busy week-10 days-2 weeks!

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 31, 2016, 10:06:54 PM
I've thought about seeking permission to get the lights but I don't think it would work. If anything, it will get me into trouble later when i get rejected and go back and grab them anyway lol. They'll probably be keeping a closer eye on the place.

good luck with the M-400A!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on March 31, 2016, 10:07:34 PM
The one room I would probably never bother remodeling would be  bedrooms...fresh coat of paint & new carpet would be all.
...Actually if I ever bought a used house I'd likely just rip out the old carpet, paint the bare plywood floor & live with it like that LOL

@GEsoftwhite100watts:
HPS lamp will be way cheaper on eBay  :)

Sounds like you'll have a busy couple weeks, but atleast part of it as a fun time too!

@Mike:
I'd be very hesitant trying to 'get' one of those lights (especially attempting to 'take it down'). Really don't think its worth the risk.
If it was already laying on the ground, then yep I could see grabbing it!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 31, 2016, 10:21:53 PM
Same here, new paint, maybe new flooring.  Wouldn't even bother getting rid of a "Popcorn" ceiling. 

Same here, I can live with plywood floors...all the floors in my house are still plywood, many not even painted.  (still-unfinished house, even after 40 years!) 

LOL at "Used house"...

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 01, 2016, 02:28:04 PM
Yeah everyone I've talked to has said the cops keep a very close eye on the place. Though I didn't see a single cop there any of the times I've (briefly) drove through the place. I will have to do a "stakeout" with my friend and hide in the bushes and see if any cops or state/town vehicles come roaming our way. If there's no sign of any cops or whatever after a few hours staking out for a couple days, then I'd say it may be safe to proceed.

What I'm thinking now is finding someone with an extension ladder and leaning the ladder right on the arm rather than the pole. I will fill some large trash bags with leaves and put them on the ground under where the light is mounted and lay an old blanket over the bags to keep them all together. Then I'll wrap the light in lots of bubble wrap. The slipfitter (clamp that holds the light to the mounting are) is on the TOP of the light rather than inside, so I don't even have to open the lights when I take them down. After making a cushion on the ground and wrapping the light in bubble wrap, I'll loosen the two bolts, pull the light off the arm, snip the wires coming from the pole, and let it drop to the ground. I'm thinking if I provide a good enough cushioning, the light will survive, even at a 25ft drop.

I know I'm probably over-simplifying the procedure though. We need to be as quiet and fast as possible. The louder we are and the longer we take, the more likely it is we'll be caught. The slipfitter has 9/16" bolts so all I need is a socket wrench with a 9/16" socket, a pair of tin snips (they cut wire easier than wire cutters do). Then I'll just buy a big wad of bubble wrap from Staples or something and I can fill up six or so big trash bags full of leaves without any issue. When we're done, I'll dump the leaves on-site to make room for the lights on the ride home and put the lights in the trash bags so whatever might be living inside them doesn't set up shop in my trunk lol.

Sound like a decent plan? Any suggestions you might have? I know what I'm doing is a little nuts for a pair of street lights but it's more than a hobby, it's a passion lol. Plus I really dig these Powerlite R37s. Won't find them anywhere else locally. Anyway, I'll keep you guys updated if you want. I plan to get them within the next couple months.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 01, 2016, 05:15:30 PM
When I was midway though reading your description of the "rescue procedure" I was thinking the trash bags full of leaves would be for your OWN safety, if the arm snapped off the pole while holding the ladder! 

If you want my own personal stinky opinion, I think you're crazy, but if it's worth it to you it's worth it to you, you know?  I wouldn't suggest it and I know I sure wouldn't be an "Accomplice" but I don't DISCOURAGE you from doing it either. 

I saved a Vita-Lite Power Twist from the fate of vandalism or the ravages of time today probably still less than an hour ago.  So there's this abandoned, really deteriorating (we're talking will-I-fall-through-the floor kind of bad) house near my honorary grandfather's place.  (Why I was up there was a whole other story).  On the way back I decided on a whim to go urban-explore this place.  Now, did I mention the house is physically leaning over? (Not out of square, but sloped floor).  I actually made it upstairs, and low and behold there was this old ratty sofa/couch with...a bunch of fluorescent tubes!  Is that a Power Twist I see? No, can't be.  YUP!  After a very terrifying trip across the rotted plywood floor to the remains of what was clearly a marijuana grow-op (walking where the joists are and sweating bullets) I found a Vita-Lite Power Twist lamp, which has heavy use, (Let me rephrase that:  It was probably abused in cold-cathode mode on a BenchLite ballast; I'll get to that), several Sylvania Workshop F40 lamps (All heavily blackened, probably not worth grabbing so I didn't), several GE F40PL/AQ with the MEATBALL! etch (Wow, this place is more recent than I thought to have those lamps there), and they were accompanied by...guess what, Mike...two shoplights with your absolute favorite ballast:  The Advance BenchLite!  Yes, they suck, and I swear they eat lamps, mainly because people never inserted them right; with HPF they glow so dimly people know something is wrong; on LPF people just ignore the flicker and wonder why the lamps die quickly.  Anyway, nabbed the two fixtures, one good-looking GE Plant & Aquarium lamp, and the Vita-Lite.  The Vita-Lite Power Twist might be spent, but it's worth a try.  Sometimes a previously-abused lamp will actually clean itself up when run "Properly" on a HPF ballast.  I can substantiate this from prior experience, I've had real bad-looking lamps still work, one in particular still in use two years later.  Some of the blackening actually went away, no joke!  I'm sure it still won't last as long, but it was worth it, for a nice Sylvania F40/DAYLIGHTFULLSPECTRUM (Design 50 with a different name).  So there may be hope for the Power Twist yet if there's any emitter material left.  I didn't bring it home, just stashed it and the other lamp and the fixtures at my honorary grandfather's place for now.  But if it works it'll be a mate for my existing Power Twist I'm typing under right now, it's mate randomly lost vacuum about a year and a half ago and its close-enough replacement, a GE Chroma 50, is nearing EOL too.   Vita-Lite is a real nice color, let me tell you! I'm sure between it and the wide-spectrum grow-lux lamps those pot plants grew pretty well! 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 01, 2016, 07:34:55 PM
Yeah I think I am pretty nuts to be devoting so much time into this lol. Surprisingly my mom doesn't seem to be against the idea. She just said not to call her and ask her to pick me up from the police station if I get caught lol.

Cool finds! BTW, I'm thinking of seeing about a job as a custodian in my school district once I graduate. Pay would be the same as my current job but I'd rather sweep floors and wash chalkboards than ring out groceries at the cash register. Plus I'm great at fixing stuff. And I'd love to work in my own school district, possibly even one of the three schools I've attended since entering kindergarten. My school district covers the city of Cranston (that's why it's called Cranston Public Schools lol). I'm sure I have a good shot at getting in if they're hiring since I'm in construction shop class, did my huge painting project at my high school, tried to fix the school's clocks (that never ended up happening because of alleged budgeting issues), and I've done countless other small things they have no idea about (and it's probably for the better that they don't).

I suppose my shop teacher and the school principal could help me get my foot in the door and know the right people to talk to.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on April 01, 2016, 08:56:09 PM
Nice finds (especially the powertwist) GEsoftwhite100watts!

If those are F40's and LPF ballasts, it was definitely not a pot-grow! Those plants need need bright light, now wimpy dim stuff like LPF & vita-lites LOL

I have nothing against BenchLite ballasts (or LPF in general)...they are fine for a garage or shed, or even in a bedroom.
What they are not is aquarium or plant-lights .. or for a room where you need proper bright light!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 01, 2016, 10:22:57 PM
There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that this was a pot-grow.  Knowing the history of the area and the people around here and considering the fact that there was also the remains of a foil-lined enclosure in the same attic bedroom with a bunch of 8" pots in there, there is no doubt that it was a pot grow...although I suppose they may have also had "legitimate" things going in there simultaneously.  There's also the remains of a greenhouse outside. 

And considering things around here and the rest of that place (not built "properly", never had siding or drywall inside, etc) BenchLites and Vita-Lite sounds about right. 

Although (And mind you, it's legal in AK now as well, just like CO) someone did once show me a pretty neat setup they had for their weed-op.  They had a bunch of F40s inside a plywood box, in homemade sockets, spaced evenly about every 8 inches, so the plants grew up THROUGH the lamps and were thus surrounded by lights on all sides.  They didn't light it for me but I saw lots of Sylvania Daylight Full Spectrum (Design 50) lamps, which would work OK for growing if Vita-Lite does too.  I know they had others in there, I'm pretty sure there was also standard Gro-Lux and cool white involved. 

LOL at your Mom's reaction.

I say go for it! I'd rather ring up groceries I think but that's just me.  I cook school lunch already, as a high school senior, and am a janitor at the city hall/library building here.  So I can kinda feel for you.  If you do it now you'll probably have the advantage of already kinda having your foot in the proverbial door, like you say.

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on April 01, 2016, 11:22:20 PM
I guess someone could try using F40's with LPF ballasts. I personally don't see them having much success though! HPF ballasts would do much better (I'm guessing back in the day that's what they did...could do VHO too but those had a big cost, they were used on aquariums though! I wanted a VHO from the first time I saw one in a fish/aquarium shop .. I remember as a kid always making a point to look at the lights on tanks)

That one setup where the plants grew up between the bulbs sounds like kind of a neat one :cool: seems like that might work quite well. I've put vita-lite 's on plants(normal houseplants .lol. ) and aquariums in the past .. nice color & all, they're just kinda dim. I'd rather go daykight. 

Ofcouse these days its all MH/HPS or T5-HO  (or the 'cheap' way - T8 running overdrive)

I wonder how F48PG17's would do for starting veggies (the thought to try the ones I have has crossed my mind .lol. I bet the 6-lamp 2x-overdrive T8 "fixture" I do use would still beat 4x PG "fixture" ... and the 6 F54T5 "fixture" would blow it away! ... probably none of them would be considered proper 'pot' lights though .lol. )
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 02, 2016, 04:06:04 PM
So my 3-lamp 34w ballasts arrived today.  Of course I've ran a multitude of tests on one already: 
Three F34T12s:  Dimmer than I had hoped, but the lamps were cold. 
Three F40T12s:  Worked fine, but dim, arguably worse than two F40s on a BenchLite!
Two F40s, one F34:  Similar results
Two F34s, one F40:  This combo seemed to work well.
Two F32T8s (No joke, I really tried that!) and one F34:  Awful
Two F32T8s, one F40: Also awful
Two F40s, one F32T8:  Similar
Two F34s, one F32T8:  Works well actually, though the 34w are dimmer than they should be and it otherwise behaves like one T8 and one T12 on a 2-lamp ballast...the "shimmer" when cold but goes away when warm, etc.  But the ballast seems OK with it in terms of heat, I broke one of the 34w (cracked near the endcap) during testing so I'm currently running it like this.  I need to run some of my tests by member Don93s on LG, he'll get a kick of this and can tell me if the one F32T8 is OK on the capacitor in this ballast, that's the one thing I wonder about. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 02, 2016, 06:24:34 PM
Did you try the lamp combinations in different orders (arranging the lamps in different orders) to see if behavior was different? I wonder if certain combos work better if one lamp is lead rather than one of the lags.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 02, 2016, 07:49:21 PM
I didn't try EVERY SINGLE POSSIBLE COMBINATION of every lamp, per se, but I was wondering the same thing.  With one 40w and two 34w it seems decent. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 04, 2016, 08:09:39 PM
Well we got about 5" of snow today. I was driving home from school and the roads hadn't been treated (recently anyway). I was sliding a little but fine for the most part. I was approaching a stop sign at the bottom of a slight hill and hit the brakes. That's when things took a turn for the worse. I didn't stop at all, in fact I gained speed because there was no friction between my tires and the ground on account of the slick freshly-fallen snow. After the stop sign was a curve to the left. I turned by wheel to left but I kept going straight. Straight toward a TREE! Finally last second the car shifted slightly to the left and a JUST cleared the tree, but I wasn't able to clear a mailbox and got my driver's side mirror knocked clean off my car and nearly cracked my driver's side window. It did scratch it. Fortunately that was the ONLY thing that happened to my car. I didn't hit the tree and there was no paint damage (that I can see; the car still has snow on it since it's still snowing out).

 Here's the intersection.  (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7628083,-71.4973599,3a,49.5y,353.2h,83.87t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6xPn8xtfBwaT3jfyVSsuqA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en)

 This is the tree and mailbox in question.  (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7634567,-71.4974086,3a,23.5y,350.53h,81.96t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCQZE1WoUgHz9YePZmzApKw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en) As you can see, it's a REALLY tight space between those.  There's also some nice boulders just after the mailbox.  (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7637247,-71.4975893,3a,75y,97.97h,60.65t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgN3N4DCpOKPrbzGOAQo7CQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en) Miraculously I was able to miss those too. I didn't even know they were there on account of the snow!

As I was headed toward it I was like "FUUUUUUU- I'm gonna hit that tree and total my car!" But some "magic force" saved my car. I lost a mirror, but that's not super difficult to replace. If I were to have hit the tree, I would have had moderate to serious damage to the front right side of my car (and probably would've lost that mirror instead). I'm not one who believes in any sort of afterlife or supernatural beings (be it good or evil) but something was protecting my ass... It's not that often you get that lucky.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 04, 2016, 10:56:46 PM
Wow, that's terrifying!  Not nearly as terrifying, (at least for me) but your story reminded me of an ever-so-slightly-hair-raising experience I had this winter. First of all, disclaimer:  Just because myself and others have admittedly done all sorts of stupid/dangerous/illegal things, doesn't mean others should.  In a nutshell, it involved riding shotgun in an old army Deuce and a Half fuel tanker which had NO BRAKES, in about 8" of wet, sloppy snow, with solid ice under that (half-melted snow that had refrozen as solid ice), on a 6-mile drive that mostly involved downhill grades, all on snowy, icy dirt/gravel roads.  (It also involved fording a river, I might add). I had driving a stick shift explained to me on this drive, along with a whole bunch of other nuances of driving a Deuce. (First thing, as we're pulling out of his driveway, "When you get one of these, go through the brakes immediately!"   (I'll just throw in here that they are a blast to drive and work on if you ask me).  Now, mind you, these are all unpaved country roads like I mentioned, and there's about 3 downed trees in the course of 6 miles.  (all unpaved rural dirt roads). Two of them were small enough you could drive over but slightly around them with a 2-1/2 ton 6X6 (gotta love 6 wheel drive!).  So as we're driving over/around this one particular downed tree, my friend is telling me all about the transfer case on these trucks and the air-actuated 6-wheel drive (Like I said, these are neat, vintage, cool vehicles!).  We did almost go off the shoulder this time, it was real close, we were getting ready to bail if we had to.  The closer you get to the other end of this particular road, going the direction we were going, it starts going more and more downhill.  One's gear-shifting skills prevail when you have no brakes!  We basically drove the whole way in low-range 3rd gear, but on a downhill stretch you can still get going pretty fast...30MPH is kind of terrifying when you have no brakes in a 2-1/2 ton truck on a downhill road in snow and ice!  The stock tires these trucks have also suck as far as snow/ice traction is concerned. 

Another funny side story involving this particular truck:  Being that it was a diesel tanker, which had sat for awhile, there was some water in the plumbing, which of course froze during the cold winter months.  We finally had gotten the truck thawed out prior to the drive I just described above...there's all sorts of little tricks...a blue tarp over the truck with a propane weed-burner in a piece of 6" stovepipe does wonders, as does a propane "Reddy-Heater".  We finally got the damn thing thawed out enough to be workable one evening, and proceeded to drain the last few gallons of diesel, water/ice, and other crap out of the tanks.  This involved draining it into about four five-gallon buckets.  Then we got the truck running (At least it fired right up, batteries weren't dead) and started pumping from the dispensing hose back into the top of the tank (don't remember exactly why, but probably freeing up crap in the plumbing system).  When you have  a fuel nozzle going for an extended period, you want to stick something in there that holds the trigger so you don't have to.  Just don't use a pocketknife.  I used my friend's pocketknife to wedge the trigger in the "On" position while we were doing this.  Did I mention it's almost dark outside and about 25F too?  Finally, we shut things down and I proceeded to pull the knife out.  Right as the guy I'm working with says "Don't drop my knife in the tank!", I fumble the damn thing and THUNK! Right in the tank it goes.  (Whoops!).  We knew we had to get it out, but waited until daylight that next morning.  Being the way we are, we were coming up with all sorts of crazy ways to recover this knife. We even teased about cutting a hole in the side of the tank.  What did work was a piece of lath and a deck screw in the end of it...it came right out!  I bet that knife still smells like #2 diesel, though!  (It became an inside joke all its own). 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 05, 2016, 08:26:01 PM
Yeah the car has to go to the mechanic tomorrow since the steering wheel is shaky.  :(
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 05, 2016, 11:02:41 PM
Something screwed up in the drivetrain? 

Hope this doesn't jack your insurance rates up through the proverbial roof!  Could've been way worse, though!

OK, so while we're on the subject of vehicles (and ironically considering my post above), here's a mildly funny story (At least I think it's amusing).  So I'm on the phone with my dad discussing various things, and as it just so happens he's browsing Craigslist looking for a particular make and model of minivan (Chevy Astrovan); he had one before and misses it and wants to replace his '89 Toyota 22-R pickup with that.  He just happened tobe looking in Fairbanks, AK, for the heck of it since he might spend some time around me while I'm going to college there and, ironically, while talking to me on the phone and looking for said make/model of car, finds not one, not two, but THREE Deuces...in the space of a 45 minute phone conversation and looking through Craigslist ads.  I swear, everything in my life happens like this: Right place, right time!  One was a total non-runner and IMO would be good for a partial lawn ornament at best.  Same with another, plus the thing was ancient from the '50s.  Third one seems like a viable possible project though I don't have $9,000 to drop LOL.  I did mention one could be justified with the firewood chore alone if we end up in a particular house I know I've mentioned before with wood heat and that needs a lot of work...lumberyard trips!  Same with garage-saling for furniture.  I may offer to partially chip in if he wants the truck and if not there's one other person I might turn onto the ad...who could be a possible roommate (We're both army truck hobbyists). 

If you want a look at the ad, here it is:  https://fairbanks.craigslist.org/cto/5504051120.html
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 06, 2016, 04:09:07 PM
I only have insurance to cover the other person in the event I cause a collision with another car. Full coverage is not worth it unless you drive a brand new car because insurance won't pay more than the car is worth, even if the bill stretches several times higher. Because I drive a model year '90 (actually made in 1989 though) car, I wouldn't get anything out of having full coverage.

Since the mailbox was fine, there's really no damage. It's best to avoid ever getting the insurance company involved because even if you're NOT the causer of the accident, your rate will STILL go up.

Anyway turn out I need a new wheel and an alignment. The total shouldn't be more than $200 or so with labor. I'll have it back tomorrow afternoon.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 06, 2016, 07:42:26 PM
Best of luck!  So you didn't even report it as a claim, then?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 06, 2016, 08:12:00 PM
Nope. The insurance wasn't involved at all. I have the minimal insurance allowed by law, which is liability insurance. Liability insurance covers damage to a "3rd party's property" but not my own. so if I wreck my car the insurance is useless unless I wreck someone else's property too. But in the eyes of the insurance company my car's not worth anything anyway so full coverage would cost me more than it would get me.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 06, 2016, 10:21:08 PM
Ah, OK.  It makes sense that with a car the age yours is (26 years old now) the insurance company doesn't really think it's worth much.  Just curious, are you overall happy with the car thus far?  I know you've had it awhile now. 

I wonder what an insurance company would think of a '68 Deuce and new driver? 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 07, 2016, 02:55:25 PM
Oh I LOVE my car. ;D Hmm well the insurance for your vehicle might be reasonable since those things are tanks (pretty much literally) but your liability insurance might be high since you can do a heck of a lot of damage with that thing lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 07, 2016, 08:10:52 PM
...And yet someone was just telling me for their 5-ton version of the Deuce (with farm insurance/registration, mind you) they pay $25/year! Wow!  Granted, that's in Kansas and not Alaska. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 07, 2016, 08:49:29 PM
I'd imagine farm insurance wouldn't be too high if the vehicle isn't allowed on the road (or if it's a slow-moving vehicle like a tractor). Once you get into driving on public roads where others are at risk and throw in the option of driving at high speeds, there's a much greater liability. I personally hate insurance because it rarely ever is useful.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 07, 2016, 09:54:54 PM
Quote from: Andy
I know what you're describing! That weird partially-concious state where you're dreaming but still hearing/otherwise at least partially alert to the "outside world", as you put it. For me it usually happens when I've woken up during the wee hours of the morning (say, 1-3AM) and couldn't fall back asleep until, say, 5:30-6AM, and often the dreams are things I want to be dreaming about.

Do you know that same feeling when things like that happen of feeling "trapped", for lack of a better word? Often not "dreaming", but you drift off, and you're JUST on the very cusp of falling asleep, and you feel "trapped", "trying to break free", or as I think of it, (not sure why but it's the best analogy to describe it, "just under the surface of the water"? Said feeling frankly is kind of scary, at least to me. I know when I'm having an "episode" of that happening that I need to just "relax" and "it will pass soon". While it happens it can scare you $h!tless, though!

And you know that feeling while drifting off to sleep where sometimes you "fall"? (really sudden)? Not to be confused with that adrenaline-rush-like "flying" or "falling" sensation in dreams; I have that and hate that "sensation", but I've talked to other people who LOVE it!

Yep it always happens in the early morning when i wake up too early and start drifting back to sleep. I don't ever recall feeling "trapped". OMG I think I know exactly what you mean about falling! It always happens if I'm on my stomach. I think what happens is that I'm ever-so-slightly using my arm muscles or neck muscles to hold my head on the pillow or something and then when you go to sleep/dose off your muscles relax and your body literally falls a fraction of an inch when your muscles relax and it wakes you up. At least that's my theory...

Sleep is a very strange thing and I feel like there is so much involved with dreams. Quite often when i dream things that went on throughout the day or that i thought about I also dream about. What's really weird is that I find myself in strange places I never remember being in and in the dream I feel very familiar with them! They have familiar objects though. Like this one dream I've had involving the F40/RS wraps from my elementary school (now F32/IS). I don't remember anything about the actual dream though. Many of my dreams have no logical order or significance to them. They're very hard to follow. But it always drives me nuts when I have a dream and I get that deja vu feeling and I'll remember dreaming that dream in my dream. It's so weird. I've wondered if the places I dream of are real. I'm sure they're based off real places but many different places morphed together. In many of my dreams the buildings have tall ceilings (not like a warehouse though, more  like I'm seeing the places through the eyes of a child or someone that height. But yet everyone appears the same height as me. Other times I dream very zoomed out where everything is a "million miles away". Almost all my dreams take place indoors. In the dreams I have no feeling (touch, taste, smell, etc.) and there is no sense of time-of-day or weather.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 07, 2016, 11:38:43 PM
You know, that's a really good theory as to why, muscles relaxing!  I did read something about it somewhere (there was a name for the phenomenon) but I can't remember what it was now LOL.

Yeah, that deja vu feeling!  I know what you mean about "mixed up" places.  Frequently I have dreams that take place in what looks like two different houses I've lived in during my childhood.  Another recurring theme is somehow being in trouble with one of my parents (including my mom, who is deceased now) and having this really snotty attitude like "What, I'm grounded?"

Speaking of those strong attitudes you get in dreams, here's a good one a neighbor related to me:  She had this dream in which she went into an actual supermarket we both know in person (it can be seen here: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Sitka,+AK/@57.0572654,-135.3451436,3a,66.8y,267.65h,83.89t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sSFPvI2ZbLp_y2PRoH9lf5w!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x540466836f7563b9:0x2541da489fc81c74).    Anyway, in the dream she goes in the store, shopping like normal, when a clerk waves her down and tells her something to the effect of "You need to wear your name tag, it's our new policy to help combat shoplifting".  She ignores him, keeps walking through the store, and the clerk is chasing her up and down aisles, 'YOU HAVE TO WEAR YOUR NAME TAG!'  (insert Asian voice; almost all the employees in this store IRL are Asian).  She tells me she then went storming out of the store, "I'M NEVER SHOPPING HERE AGAIN!"  (Insert middle finger as she's telling me the story). 

So there's a good example of a strong attitude in a dream LOL.

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 08, 2016, 11:28:47 PM
Mike, I realized I just totally missed your last post! 

Yeah, that's an interesting point.  Did I mention these trucks top out at, realistically, about 45-50MPH? Of course this is what you'd still consider "high speeds", let's face it. If I ended up with one of these as my daily driver it would mostly be on the freeway at 50MPH in the right-hand lane, so stop-and-go traffic wouldn't be as much of an issue in the area I'll be driving in (Fairbanks, AK) at first but if possible when driving elsewhere I'd gladly take frontage, 2-lane, reduced-speed-limit roads and stay off the freeway/interstate unless I have to; Fairbanks, AK is practically all freeway or dirt road once you get out of downtown, no joke!  All or nothing!  There is some 2-lane highway further out, but only where it's far enough to narrow a freeway down to 2 lanes.  That Richardson Highway we looked at on Streetview is one of the "freeways" in that area.  Remember Streetview-road-tripping that road?  Suffice to say there's a chance I'll be screaming down that "freeway" in the Deuce in another year or two. 
 Insurance is hardly ever useful but I think it's a good thing it's required because when it DOES actually come in handy it's totally worth it, at least liability insurance. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 13, 2016, 01:34:13 PM
I got a Soundolier model FD loudspeaker from school today. Dunno its age or if it works (it's used). I want to hook it up to a stereo and use it as a radio speaker but dunno how lol. (Or can it even be done?) I'm getting new speakers in my car *eventually* so when I do, I'll transfer the guts from one of the good speakers into the Soundolier FD. I'm gonna mount it in the laundry or utility room and connect it to the basement stereo so I can hear the radio from there. I don't know squat about sound systems though lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 17, 2016, 07:38:48 PM
Well, I've started on the roof rafters for the shed. I got four of the six rafters up (six individual rafters; three pairs). There will be 2X6 fascias at the gable ends that will act as the outer rafters. Will take and post pics tomorrow or Wednesday.

UPDATE: Pics posted on LG. The lumber part of the roof is all done. All that's left now is the sheet metal roofing materials, which I have yet to buy.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 18, 2016, 10:54:07 PM
I'm a bit of a music/audio freak myself, good thing you asked.  I'm not sure how well it'd sound with music, if it's a PA system loudspeaker it might not sound all that great with music.  Installing speakers in other rooms would be neat though, but I'd want two in there for stereo sound, one in the left channel and one in the right channel (do you understand the concept of left and right stereo sound?)

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on April 18, 2016, 11:28:50 PM
@Mike:
I'll have to go check out those shed pic's. Better get that roof on :lol:
You might have more rain/snow on the way from that storm that passed through here on the weekend leaving more than a foot of the white stuff ... and really heavy wet snow too.
I went out a couple times sat night & knocked it off various trees & bushes to prevent broken branches

@GEsoftwhite100watts:
I have things wired up for sound in multiple rooms (each having its own receiver or amp, but there's one main one where I can send to all toe others) and the yard too :)
If I wanted (and had different receivers/amps) I could do surround in all those rooms...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 19, 2016, 10:43:08 AM
@ Andy: the stereo I'm plugging into is a Jensen pretty much identical to this one.  (http://www.amazon.com/Jensen-JTA475B-3-Speed-Turntable-Cassette/dp/B004MIQ9W4) I was able to get the loudspeaker playing from the radio. Sound quality is similar to a laptop speaker. Actually, if you've ever been into a supermarket with music playing, it's not all that different with this speaker. Just without the intercom interruptions lol. Not great, but not disgustingly terrible either. It's better than no radio at all lol. IMO newer speakers are too low pitch. I actually like the sound of older speakers better. Not worn speakers, but older speakers that were more optimized for rock rather than high-bass pop and hip-hop. Rock and metal doesn't sound so great on newer sound systems IMO.

Anyway, When I hook it up, my plan is to wire it in with the existing speakers, making three speakers overall. Is that OK or will it overload the radio? The loudspeaker has a small transformer thing with a bunch of wires marked 1W, 3W, 5W, etc. and not sure what it's for.  Here's a pic.  (http://auctions.c.yimg.jp/images.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/image/ra114/users/0/2/9/2/lion_hi_fi-img600x327-1411736986veorma5361.jpg) The speaker works fine without that hooked up. There's speaker wire soldered to the two "ears" shown below the magnet and above the transformer and that's what I plugged into the radio and it worked. But does that transformer thing serve any purpose and if so, do I need it?

@ xmas: We have sunny weather here til Friday. Friday it's gonna rain. But it's going to be 74 degrees, so no chance of snow. He hit 76 degrees yesterday! It's supposed to be 60 and mostly cloudy today. Wednesday and Thursday are both supposed to be sunny with highs of 61 and 73, respectively. Friday is going to be rainy and pretty sticky with a high of 74. Saturday and Sunday are looking good; both partly cloudy with highs in the low-mid 60s. Then Monday and Tuesday we're back into the mid-50s and rainy, typical of April here.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on April 19, 2016, 07:35:00 PM
@Mike:
That's probably an impedance-matching transformer attached to the speaker.. such things are very common in PA systems. For a normal system use whichever of the wires are labeled for 8-ohm (test with a meter if they're not labeled)... or just disconnect the transformer & wire directly to the speaker like you did (its probably 8-ohms..that and watts should be labeled somewhere on the back of it)

When you say  "three speakers overall" do you mean 3 speakers per channel (ie 3 on each left/right)? or 3 total - the stereo has outputs for a left, right, and center channel?

If you mean 3 per channel, yep you can do that, but if you do, wire them in series! not parallel! or you will overload the amplifier.

----
Sounds close to typical April weather here, except swapping some of that rain for snow, and dropping 5-10 off those temps...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 19, 2016, 08:12:26 PM
Ah so that transformer thing isn't necessary? What is impedance-matching for? By three speakers I mean having the two speakers it came with (one on left, one on right) and then plugging my loudspeaker into either left or right (let's say left for something concrete) meaning I'd have one speaker on right and two on left. Is that OK? There is no "center".
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on April 19, 2016, 08:52:47 PM
Ah so that transformer thing isn't necessary? What is impedance-matching for? By three speakers I mean having the two speakers it came with (one on left, one on right) and then plugging my loudspeaker into either left or right (let's say left for something concrete) meaning I'd have one speaker on right and two on left. Is that OK? There is no "center".

impedance-matching is for - lets say the amp has a 8-ohm and a 4-ohm output (A PA amp will usually have 4-ohm, 8-ohm, and 90v), you would then match which output(s) you use to the inputs on the speaker-transformer.

You could also do stuff like 2 4-ohm speakers in series and connect it to the 8-ohm amp output.

You can use it if you wish, but don't really need it in your case.

----
No don't do 2 on the left/one on the right, keep whatever number balanced on both!
If you want to use 3 speakers, you'll do what's called a "false-center"(not sure if that's the exact right term, but its technically what it is!)

Hopefully this will make sense (but I could draw it up if you needed):
Take the '+' from each stereo  output, and connect it to the '+' of your 2 normal speakers.
Then take the '-' from each speaker, and connect them both to the '+' on the 3rd speaker.
Then connect the '-' from the 3rd speaker and connect it to both '-'s on the stereo.
 Technically you could also create a "false-rear" by connecting both '+' from the stereo to the speaker (1 to '+' 1 to '-' ) but the speaker needs to be 16 ohms or more _and_ such a setup is not compatible with all stereos/amps.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 19, 2016, 09:31:57 PM
So the positives of the factory speakers will be connected as normal (that's red, right? like with cars?) and the negatives will go to the positive of the PA and the negative of the PA is spliced to both left and right negatives? Now, on the PA the speaker wire is half coppery and the other wire is more silvery. Is the darker more coppery lead the positive or does it really matter? Pardon my ignorance since I really have never dealt with any sound equipment before.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on April 19, 2016, 10:07:26 PM
Yep thats it for wiring, and yep red is positive.
The copper-ish is wire indeed positive (although it truly doesn't matter, the speaker will not care either way since in reality sound is just AC power)

---------
The only reason + and - for speakers  is there is to have the sound correctly in-phase...
Try this for a neat little trick:
Setup the 2 factory speakers fairly close together, and connect them normally
If it has one, make sure the left/right balance knob on the stereo is exactly centered
Play something mono (like an AM station)
Start right near the stereo (exactly centered between the speakers), and slowly back away from it...(this part is simply for comparison, it'll sound just as you expect)

now re-connect +/- backwards on only one speaker.
Again start right near the stereo (again exactly centered between the speakers), and slowly back away from it... You should get some weird sound-cancellation effects, even spots where you hear -nothing- no matter how loud its turned up!

Lots of fun to play around with that :) I one time had a 2-speaker mono amp setup at the back of the yard, and purposely connected one speaker backwards, walking around and turning my head just right could make the sound appear come from various directions....and I mean to the point of being so convincing that if you were blindfolded you wouldn't know where the sound was actually coming from. There was one time I got things setup just right and found the exact right spot and it sounded like the music was coming from inside my head :o :o
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 22, 2016, 12:11:53 AM
You need a vintage '70s or earlier tuner/amplifer with analog tuning, incandescent dial lamps, and a good AM section, Mike!  Just kidding, use what you have.

Never heard of a false-center before!



Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on April 22, 2016, 08:53:26 PM
Quote from: GEsoftwhite100watts
You need a vintage '70s or earlier tuner/amplifer with analog tuning, incandescent dial lamps, and a good AM section, Mike! 
LOL for me I'd prefer a nice all digital unit! And ofcourse one that has surround too.


Quote from: GEsoftwhite100watts
Never heard of a false-center before! 
Combined with a false-rear, its a way to make a fake/simulated surround system out of a normal stereo...the setup actually kinda works too.
false-center/false-rear might not be the "official" terms, I don't remember, as it was quite a good number of years ago I learned about that little trick.



Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 22, 2016, 10:52:40 PM
So is surround different from quardaphonic sound, pardon my total ignorance?  I know I like stereo sound better than mono but there's a certain "tone" I like best.  It's hard to describe but think slightly bassy computer speakers and/or slightly over-modulated FM stereo...(Read:  religious translators).  Despite their strange modulation, I like the sound... I know of one such station who sounds (IMO) quite cathedral-like (for that kind of music), on normal FM.  Some people like vinyl records for their sound, I personally don't care for them, but I like that little hiss in the background from FM stereo, and the slight distortion from an overly "loud" signal.  (Do you know what I'm trying to describe?)

I find with stereo you have to be in just the right spot to get the best effect.  Not all that familiar with quardaphonic, my stereo might have it but the speakers are on different ends of the house so at best it's stereo.  (And they're fairly close together, so the effect isn't very pronounced anyway).

I know you've told me you can't stand to listen to any radio station that doesn't broadcast in stereo, but I don't mind it.  I know one locally, which I know you've googled when I've mentioned in the past, KCAW-FM 104.7 of Sitka, Alaska, that doesn't do stereo (except maybe during music programming, and only on their main signal, remember that discussion?) but on their mono translators it sounds quite crisp and clean without the stereo hiss.  I actually don't mind it.  I'd suggest streaming them but most web streams are awful audio quality, you have to hear the station in person.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on April 22, 2016, 11:46:53 PM
Quardaphonic was basically a precursor to surround.

I'm fine with vinyl records...as long as they're in new/perfect condition. One thing I hate if 'fake' vinal sounds on CDs - like sometimes bands will add those little pops/clicks/etc in the background of a song. To me it sounds like crap.

Overly 'loud' FM signal is basically a slightly overdriven signal! Kinda distorts the sound in a certain way LOL

Yep stereo/surround/etc all have that "sweet spot" in a room

Yep I remember that discussion.
One of the stations I sometimes listen to, for some reason runs their HD-2 channel in mono. Would be a decent channel if it wasn't for that (look up "Gen X Radio" on the iHeartRadio website if you want to hear it)...I've never actually compared to see if the internet stream is mono like the broadcast one...I think you know what I'll be test soon here :) )
Only thing that makes mono bearable is to run it through my old computer & use it as a reverb-processor :) (its connected to the stereo exactly like an EQ would be, so all sound goes through it)

I'm not much of a fan of streaming "radio" in general.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 23, 2016, 11:22:24 AM
There's this radio station I grew up listening to in Atascadero, California, 95.3/100.5  "The Beach" that I still sometimes stream that has a horrid sounding audio stream, though it IS in stereo.  Way too overly compressed.  I still listen though, despite that. 

It's an unusual station IMHO by commercial radio standards.  It started as your typical overplayed-same-300-songs classic rock station, then slowly started adding more and more eclectic stuff to their playlist (I "watched" it evolve over the years), so by the mid 2000s they had lots of '80s new wave/alternative, and by 2013 they had lots of '90s grunge/alternative in there.  Now I hear songs from the mid '00s on there, which is bizarre for a classic-hits station IMO!  And branding themselves as "Rockin' Classics" when they play lots of emo '90s grunge is also somewhat strange.  They've dropped a lot of their '60s-'70s music by now of course, but still play some '70s stuff occasionally. 

It's definitely a departure from typical commercial radio...they almost have a playlist that's a little too tight and repetitive, but it's full of stuff I know but NEVER have heard on the radio anywhere else except stuff like SiriusXM or Pandora...which are not terrestrial radio anyway!

Google them..."95.3 The Beach, San Luis Obispo, CA" and you'll see what I mean if the quality of the stream doesn't drive you insane. 

OK, so you know what I mean about those "overdriven" signals.  I kinda like that sound quality though, like I said.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 23, 2016, 04:36:19 PM
So I just received my first set of goodies from a fellow Lighting Gallery member, it's official that the Internet is helping me expand my collection!  Member Nicksfans on LG sent me a bunch of lamps, they just arrived today.  Three 50w clear Westies (the REAL Westinghouse) with well-supported CC-6 horizontal filaments, something later lamps never had, a Westy 100w inside-frost lamp that might even be '60s vintage that's well-used and quite black but works, 21 25w GE short-neck inside-frost lamps with the '60s-'70s etch, and last but not least a Westy F15T8 Agro-Lite in a Philips-Westinghouse F15T8/CW sleeve. 

Since many of the lamps are duplicates and hardly any have clean etches they'll mostly get used, I already have one Westy now in regular service. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 23, 2016, 07:23:16 PM
Nice! Today I painted the pole that my acquired-after-last-winter stop sign was mounted to. Remember that virtually new stop sign that was in use just a short while before getting knocked over by the plow? The pole sat under my deck all last year and I decided to repaint it today and I'm probably going to install it next to me shed. Haven't decided what sign I'll put on it yet...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 23, 2016, 07:50:59 PM
Put the stop sign on it!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 23, 2016, 08:55:19 PM
I was thinking that. The stop sign is pretty big though. Maybe I'll mount it anyway... If not that, I was going to mount that "One Way Do Not Enter" sign or a "No Parking" sign.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 24, 2016, 11:05:27 AM
That would be neat too.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 24, 2016, 12:31:59 PM
I suppose I could also to both...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 28, 2016, 02:33:29 PM
OK well when I had tinkered with the radio before xmaslightguy told me how to hook up the third speaker, I had hooked up both speakers to the RIGHT speaker terminal. Now the speaker hooked up to the RIGHT terminal is very quiet. Did I fry something? If so, would you have a rough idea on what it would be? I assume I overloaded that terminal? I tried fiddling with the wires, thinking it was a poor connection but unfortunately that's not the issue. It's not the speaker either since when I switch the speakers around, it's always the one wired to the RIGHT terminal that's quiet. If I did blow something, do you think it's possible to fix it?

Also, there's a couple jacks on the back (red and white I think). They're not used for anything ATM. I tried sticking the speaker wires in there but nothing happened. Is that for an amp or something? If my dad finds out he'll kill me lol. In the mean time, I connected the speaker that's physically on the right to the left because the physically-left speaker is kiddie-cornered against the wall so it's less likely he'll notice it's out but I'm sure someone will pick up on it. Hopefully it's an easy/cheap fix.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on April 28, 2016, 06:59:26 PM
@GEsoftwhite100watts:
Sounds like that station has a good selection of different musics . I'll have to check out their website sometime just for fun..

It is pretty cool to trade stuff with other members.. I've done it a couple times.


@Mike
It depends.. did you wire the speakers in:
Series (no chance of frying anything with that as you are putting less of a load on it)
or
Parallel (there is a chance of overloading/frying the amplifier...but unless you also cranked it up or left it on for a long while, the chances are minimal)

First thing, fiddle with(turn it back & forth a bunch of times) the stereo's left/right balance control (if it has one)... sometimes they form a spot of poor connection & just need to be moved.
Do the same with the volume knob - turn up a bunch of times (but in this case with it off)

The jacks on the back could be inputs for a CD/DVD/etc or outputs for an Amplifier .. is there a label of any sort by them?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 28, 2016, 07:19:55 PM
I had the PA speaker and one the original speakers wired parallel, but they didn't work at all that way, so I quickly undid it. But after I rewired it like normal I noticed it was doing that. Anyway, I wired the PA speaker in the way you said a few posts back and they two original speakers are equal loudness again, but the sound quality is less than what it way. Very faint, but a tiny bit of static. The PA speaker sounds fine Maybe because the PA speaker has lower sound quality so it's making the others worse? Sounds fine though. I'm sure my dad won't notice that lol.

The jacks on the back just say "OUTPUTS" and there's one red and one white. There is no balance knob and the volume is controlled by two different buttons. You press & hold the + button to increase volume or press & hold the - button to decrease volume. you have to hold it like a second before it does anything though so if you want to turn it down/up just a tiny bit you might have to work at it lol.

Not sure if it makes a difference, but if I connect just one speaker with the negative on the right and the positive on the left, the speaker is quiet but with the negative on the left and positive on the right it's normal. And of course if the whole thing is on right it's fine and if the whole thing is wired to the left it's quiet. But wired as a trio, the loudness is uniform.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on April 28, 2016, 07:56:07 PM
The PA speaker probably doesn't pass all frequencies like a 'normal' speaker would, so yeah the main speakers won't sound as good going through it. its possible if you went through the transformer thingie on it that they might sound better.

Sounds like those are jacks for connecting a separate amplifier.

Ok so digital volume control! I've got a stereo receiver with that. :)

If I understand what you said correctly, it sounds to me like there might be a bad solder joint inside on that one negative speaker terminal.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 28, 2016, 08:24:09 PM
Ah I see, so I didn't blow anything? Will this bad solder joint cause an issue with me running everything the way I am? I've heard these newer Jensen units are kinda junky so I'm not surprised it's got issues lol. It's a cheap stereo but it works (well for the most part I guess lol) so can't complain!

Thanks for guiding me through this set-up. Now I have radio in the laundry room and utility room. ;D The rooms share a wall that runs between two ceiling joists so I got a piece of plywood and installed the speaker to it and stuck two 3" screws through the two studs so that the tips of the screws are facing each other. Then I tilted the panel with the speaker up above the wall and between the studs and the speaker panel rests on the four screws, which suspend it above the wall (so the speaker isn't just rested on top of the wall, as that would block like 75% of the sound lol). Pretty good set-up and the PA speaker is loud enough to be heard adequately in both rooms. So we essentially have partial surround-sound lol. I'll grab a pic and post it on LG in a couple days.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on April 28, 2016, 09:07:51 PM
Nope from what you've said as far as I can tell you didn't blow anything.

On any stereo(or surround too) I've looked at all the speaker negative connections are connected directly together right inside anyway, so even if you connected both speakers (saying you just had 2) to the 'good' negative it'd work fine)

If you can solder and the unit easily comes apart, it wouldn't hurt to fix :)

LOL that sounds like the type of setup I mighta done when I was younger...
These days each room that has a stereo has its own receiver(or amp)... but they are also connected to a central point so I can send the same music to all if I wish :)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 29, 2016, 02:14:08 PM
It's the positive that's bad not the neutral. Neutrals are fine. I don't have a solder gun but I could try a good old fashioned wirenut lol.

Upstairs, we have a stereo with an amp with different "circuits" (master bedroom, kitchen, and living room) with speakers mounted on the walls. You can control the volume from the amp (to make one room quieter than another) but they're all on one radio station since it's just the one stereo. We have the circuitry in the walls downstairs to do the same thing but it was never hooked up so the wall boxes have blanks on them and the wiring isn't used at all.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on April 29, 2016, 05:49:14 PM
I must've mis-read it then, I was thinking a bad negative. Bad positive could easily be a problem with the amplifier, but could also be a bad solder joint.  Wirenut wouldn't work as the connections are probably solderd directly to a circuitboard.

(its odd that you are getting equal sound out of both original speakers with all 3 connected if one side wasn't working. I wouldn't expect that .. might have to give it a test & get back to you)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 29, 2016, 06:07:10 PM
Actually, upon closer listening, the speaker wired to the "bad" terminal is still quieter and makes an "Ehhhhhh" noise like a noisy ballast (like some old speakers do) but it's a huge improvement over having just the two wired normally.

The three speakers are softer than just the two though. the stereo always starts at a certain volume but now the "start volume" is lower with three speakers.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on April 29, 2016, 08:25:24 PM
Its normal for them to be quieter with all 3 rather than just 2 (even if its as much as half)


I took an old radio and setup a the same 3-speaker setup for some testing (simply because I couldn't remember exactly how it worked --sound wize-- when I used to have one)

Using a specially modified audio file & playing it to that radio:
1=File with same audio on Left & Right (Normal Mono)
2=File with audio on Right only
3=File with audio on Left only
4=File with audio on Left & Right (but one channel is inverted - what could be called 'Inverted Mono' - and  what on an actual surround system would be directed to the back channel by the processor)

*standard 2 speakers setup*
1. Equal Sound from both speakers
2. Sound from Right speaker only
3. Sound from Left speaker only
4. Equal Sound from both speakers
...basically works exactly as you would expect :)

*the 3 speakers setup*
1. Equal Sound from both speakers & 3rd speaker
2. Normal sound from Right  & 3rd speaker, quiet sound from Left
3. Normal sound from Left  & 3rd speaker, quiet sound from Right
4. Equal Sound from both speakers & minimal sound from 3rd
...works similar to what I'd expect (and now just as I remember it working from times before).
With a perfectly "clean" input-signal, and a good clean stereo, #4 in this case could have zero sound on the 3rd speaker. (in my case the test stereo is a cheap thing, and the file a LowFi quality one)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 02, 2016, 03:51:42 PM
Interesting results. I didn't know you could do all this "tinkering" with sound systems. I've never given any thought to it other than turning it on or adjusting the volume or station lol.

I splurged and bought an 8ftX10ft tarp to cover the roof of my shed (only cost me $8.55 lol) since we've had a lot of rain and the water ends up standing in the middle of the plywood since the plywood has swelled around the edges. Not good... Anyway, the tarp will hopefully keep most of the rain out. Granted the doorway is still wide open but at least the entire roof is not open anymore. I will need the tarp to cover the sheet metal roofing materials until I use them anyway since that stuff cannot contact the ground or it'll rust/rot out fairly quickly and could damage the paint finish.

There's a two-four week lead time between the time I order the sheet metal roofing and when it's available for pickup. And I probably won't be able to install it right when I get it, so it could end up being the end of June before the roof is on. And the shed still won't be done then either. I'll still have to install the door and then work on the trim and soffit. Then I'll be working on the shelving inside and will have to decide on a paint color. I'll probably paint the door and trim to match the roofing (a tan khacki-like color). The siding color I've not decided on yet. Probably an off-white color. IMO the trim should be a darker color than the shed and the wall siding shouldn't be same color as the roofing. Just my personal opinion though.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on May 02, 2016, 07:51:11 PM
Yep it is
I've played around with sound-files on the computer for years, and  audio stuff even longer :)

The tarp is probably a good idea with it being spring & rain on the way.
As far as what color(s) to paint a shed...IMO, it should always match the house.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 02, 2016, 08:44:53 PM
My first choice would be to match the house but our existing shed doesn't match the house so I think it might be strange having two sheds and one matching the house and one not. But it would also look weird with two matching sheds that don't match the house or three non-matching structures lol. The tan would actually match the house pretty well. Our house is a tan/cafe brown with forest green shutters. Maybe tan siding with forest green trim and fascia? But would that look good with a beige roof and gable/eave edge? The metal roofing includes a gable trim and eave trim that will cover about 1/2 to 2/3 of the gable and eave fascias. Should I paint the door to match the siding or the trim? The front door on our house is painted forest green like the shutters. I'll look online at shed color schemes and see what I like...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 04, 2016, 05:47:58 PM
Well, Mike, I totally thought of you today...I was actually going down that bizarre Richardson Highway we've looked at umpteen times on Streetview in person earlier today.  Do you remember any of it being 6-lane, 3 lanes each way? I don't...I think it's been expanded even further!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on May 04, 2016, 08:58:49 PM
@Mike:
In that case I would make it match the other shed since its the nearest structure.

I think a beige roof would look just fine with tan.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 07, 2016, 09:41:28 PM
@ Andy: as time goes on I see many major roads in rural areas being "upgraded" to freeways or having lanes added as traffic on those roads increases. back in the 60s and 70s they made a lot of state highways into freeways as the western half of the state boomed in population. It's still fairly rural way west toward Connecticut but before I-295 was built in the 70s, there was much less settled sections..

@ xmas: yeah I was thinking that, but my shed doesn't match the other shed structurally (they look totally different from each other) and I don't particularly care for that color scheme myself but hey, I still got time lol. Paint is the last step...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 08, 2016, 08:06:39 PM
Yeah, you can just tell (and I've talked to locals) that the greater Fairbanks, AK metropolitan area has pretty much exploded in population in the last few decades LOL.  For being geographically kind of in the middle of nowhere, there's a population of the whole area (Fairbanks and its suburbs and all the military bases) of probably close to 100,000 people now.  For instance, there's every chain fast-food place or other chain franchise you can think of (For example, while driving around the area, just sightseeing and seeing what's there since I'm moving there, I commented "Wow!  I had no idea there was Jiffy Lube in Alaska!"  And Xmaslightguy, here's what the radio dial there looks like: http://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/locate?select=city&city=Fairbanks&state=AK&band=Both&is_lic=Y&is_cp=Y&is_fl=Y&is_fx=Y&is_fb=Y&format=&dx=2&radius=&freq=&sort=freq...and just about all are local signals too! 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 12, 2016, 11:23:00 PM
So I brought home one of the BenchLite-ballasted shoplights I acquired last month and tested it.  The PowerTwist lamp it came with is spent and rectifies on a BenchLite and works about 50% of the time on HPF rapid start.  It works OK (for now) on one of those "LOA" type ballasts, it lights fully without rectifying.   Just getting a few more hours out of it LOL...
A GE Plant & Aquarium lamp it came with also works fine and looks lightly used, if at all.

Said shoplight is my desk light for the moment, with a pair of June 1999 Philips "Home Light" /741s I had.  For a BenchLite, it's actually decent brightness for what it is.  It's it's intended application though, a desk/workbench light and not general lighting in an unheated basement or something.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on May 13, 2016, 07:47:34 PM
@GEsoftwhite100watts:
Looks like Fairbanks has a reasonable number of stations :) ... still kindof a small town being less than 100k :lol:

I really don't mind those LPF (BenchLite/etc) F40 ballasts, they do fine for a workbench or shed or garage (well in the summer atleast, they suck in cold - dim orange glow in the lamp's ends is all you'll get in some cases)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 13, 2016, 08:02:18 PM
Meh. The Benchlite may be bright enough for a work bench, but a smaller lamp will do the same thing with a shorter fixture.

The lamps and sockets arrived for my 2X PL13 preheat outdoor wall-mount shoebox fixture that I'm making. I painted the inside of the fixture and the reflector/gear tray with white paint and sprayed the outside of the fixture with a clear coat to protect the brass from tarnishing. I was debating whether to keep the bare metal or paint it a different color. But I liked the look of the brushed brass so I decided to keep that and protect it with the clear coat of enamel spray paint. I'm designing the labels for it now and they'll be printed at school on the laser printer on aluminum foil, which will remain pristine forever. I'll superglue the labels to the fixture. The fixture will be mounted outside the door of my shed. The lamps I got for it are 5000K 900 lumen Halco lamps. I was debating between 3500K, 4100K, 5000K or 6500K but the 5000K lamps were both cheaper and brighter so I got them. Not sure on the quality of Halco lamps but they're warranted for one year based on 10 hours usage per day...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 14, 2016, 12:00:47 AM
Wow, >4100K PLs seem uncommon to me anyway. 

Another thing that can make BenchLites look bad is low line voltage, they don't tolerate that as well as HPF ballasts or instant-start T8.  On one of my own generators, which I'm sure consistently gives me 121-122v easily, in clean pure sine wave indistinguishable from the grid, they work fine, but on my modified-sine-wave inverter or my neighbor's generator (I also get power from them sometimes and my feed from there consists of 325 feet of #12 SJTW extension cord daisy-chained together, they're dim.  (Granted, even incandescents are noticeably dimmer; I need thicker wire but don't have enough.  And another one of my generators has the cycles/hertz messed up so lights "flicker" or "pulsate" constantly and the LPF BenchLites are like a strobe light under those conditions!  Same for LPF 14/15/20 watt trigger start ballasts. 

And like I said above, they don't perform well on modified sine wave inverter electricity. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 14, 2016, 08:03:17 PM
Yeah the preheat PLs are uncommon in non-warm white colors lol. The 5000K PL13s are a REALLY nice color too. They'll look great outdoors. And the fixture is FCO so it would be neighbor compliant lol. However, the fixture will be installed on my shed so it won't see regular use. The thing gets REALLY hot though. I wonder if I should try different ballasts. Check LG for pics of the completed product sans foil labels!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on May 14, 2016, 08:21:24 PM
@Mike:
5000k seems like it would be a good choice...especially if its the nice bright type, not the dime C-50 type.

Depending on how shiny the metal was I woulda likely left it bare rather than painting it white..


@GEsoftwhite100watts:
Yep.. LPF RS ballasts are quite susceptible to voltage fluctuations / low voltage / etc
Drop the voltage a bit & you'll have a noticeably dimmer light (I think its dis-porportently dimmer because...lets make a rough example and say the ballast doubles the input voltage, now say you drop that input by 10v, the output to the lamps would drop by 20v).

With HPF the ballast can compensate for it (to a point) I believe due to the capacitor. You get to a point where if the input drops too much below 120v, and it'll start flickering in the same way as you'd get running F32's

--
Oh and a LPF RS ballast can also be dimmed with a dimmerswitch that's rated for fluorescent :) , a HPF RS on the other hand will not like being dimmed at all (wouldn't be surprised if you'd damage something leaving it dimmed)

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 14, 2016, 08:25:59 PM
That makes sense, Xmaslightguy. 

I remember somebody somewhere on LG relating some story about a house they grew up in having a fluorescent in a china, etc. display case in the dining room which was dimmed with the same wall dimmer as the chandelier.  Wonder if that was some LPF ballast then?

Post pics of it installed, Mike!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on May 14, 2016, 09:02:05 PM
Could have easily been just a standard LPF RS .. preheat won't work, and electronic requires a special dimmer that wouldn't be able to also control incandescent.

I've tried it with a standard 2xF40 RS LPF (coulda even been a BenchLite :lol: but I don't remember), but point is not even technically a "dimmable ballast", it worked just fine - but even with a dimmer rated for fluorescent, still worked a bit better adding a single low wattage incandescent to the circuit.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 14, 2016, 10:12:16 PM
Yeah the lamps are nice and bright and not dim. They're 82 CRI IIRC. BTW if the ballasts run too hot to touch is that bad? Because they're rated for 14-22W lamps. I'd assume 13W would be OK but maybe not? If the metal was aluminum I would have left it but it was brass, which would have added a yellow sheen to the light, which I didn't want. White reflectors work better with fluorescent lamps than bare metal reflectors IMO.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on May 14, 2016, 10:51:46 PM
Too hot to touch in my opinion is not good (especially if we're talking so hot you can hardly tap a finger against it). I'd think 13w is close enough to 14 but don't know for sure.

As a test try running just one lamp with the fixture apart and see how hot it gets.

Yeah I can understand that, brass really wouldn't have looked or worked all that good.
If the bare metal had a good shine (and ofcourse was a silver metal) I'd leave it that way.
If there was a way to attach foil & make it permanent I'd probably use that as a standard reflector :lol:


Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 15, 2016, 10:01:17 AM
Yeah I was thinking the same thing about heat. It shouldn't get that hot... I guess I should get one of those Kill-A-Watt meters and see how much power this thing is pulling. I'll try the one lamp thing.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 15, 2016, 12:18:41 PM
LOL I've wanted one of those things for years...if nothing else to settle disputes between my dad and I about what draws however much!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 21, 2016, 04:54:05 PM
(Xmaslightguy- I just realized I missed a couple of your posts)

Yeah, most of the Fairbanks stations have pretty high ERP (many are 100Kw) so pretty much anywhere in the central-ish part of interior Alaska gets a decent number of stations from what I can tell, even if they're weak.  At one point it looked like I would be living about 2 hours south of Fairbanks (commuting in, quite a drive!) and of course one of the first things I did was look up what the radio dial looked like there LOL.  Here it is:  (http://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/locate?select=city&city=Big+Delta&state=AK&band=Both&is_lic=Y&is_cp=Y&is_unl=Y&is_fl=Y&is_fx=Y&is_fb=Y&format=&dx=2&radius=&freq=&sort=freq)  Right on the fringe of all the Fairbanks stations and kind of on the fringe of the Delta Junction stations (mostly low-power translators and local niche-format LPFMs, that's why) but the house had a pretty good Yagi antenna on the roof, good since I would have been on the fringe of just about all the stations) which with a good vintage tuner/amplifier I'd calculated and I think I would have been able to get at least 25 FM signals, not much by "city" standards but a lot compared to here with a whopping...two, one being weak/far away and both NPR translators/relays.  Although admittedly I run my own unlicensed 1/2 watt FM transmitter all the time and I doubt most have even noticed its presence. 

The nice thing about all the high-powered stations though (at least IMO) is that it would have meant that even with a 100 mile drive I wouldn't have had to change radio stations much, if at all.  Like I said they all have pretty high ERPs, and the terrain is pretty flat there. 

A lot of them don't show up in Radio-Locator at that location, but I bet they'd still be pretty clear, in stereo, etc. with a good Yagi or car antenna.

Interesting about the LPF ballast on a dimmer...but yeah, an incandescent (resistive load) makes those TRIAC dimmers work way better. 

And I had a BenchLite die on me yesterday...typical failure mode of those, just glowing at the ends, even with good lamps at 80F ambient temps. 

And I think it's official: I'm going LED with all the E26 sockets in my house.  I found some "BlueFire" brand LEDs LG member Sliverliner recommended...they're daylight filament LEDs...they look like a LIGHT BULB.  I also bought two 2700K 11w GEs...which are also pretty good, I like them better than the spirals they replaced. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on May 21, 2016, 08:27:44 PM
@Mike / @GEsoftwhite100watts
Yep those Kill-a-watt meters are quite handy & well worth getting in my opinion.
For me ofcourse there's always the 'how much does this (thing) take
Around Christmas for lights ofcourse it makes finding out how much I've connected easy..since I need so split loads up between circuits & controllers so nothing is overloaded...
Also has a neat feature where you can leave something plugged into it & it'll give you how many kilowatts were used plus how long its been...so you can see what certain things are costing to run.

Looks like you woulda be easily(ie: just a basic antenna/no real fiddling with it) able to get a few stations, but yeah better antenna & you'd get more of 'em. :)
LOL you wouldn't want to run that 1/2w FM transmitter here ... I'm sure it would quickly be noticed. (ofcourse what would really matter is how 'clean' the transmitter was, as long as it didn't interfere with any "real" stations, it might not matter but people still might find it & listen in LOL)

There are a number of 100kw stations for the city here (Denver)...me being outside city limits & actually closer to some the transmitters than the city, it doesn't  mean I get better reception...because I'm right near the mountains & ofcourse do a fair bit of my driving near the mountains. .. .and well you know what mountains do to radio. Still not too bad though, & probably helps that the house is on a small hill.
This would be   Denver's stations (http://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/locate?select=city&city=denver&state=co&x=0&y=0).
I should go through & see how many of 'em I can get some night (day obviously with the plantlights & their electronic ballasts would kill anything weak/somewhat weak). but even just the 'near the mountains' will probably take out a number LOL

Yeah Triacs can be picky things (especially with LEDs which can give an odd load, and enough of them (even just xmas lights) can apparently give an almost capacitive-like load...something a Triac deff won't like! I have a couple things that I plan to get a single C9 socket & add to them - rather than the small strings of mini lights I have now)

That BenchLite might not be dead, I've found those LPF ballasts sometimes just need help firing up. Run your hand along the fixture's lamps & see if it does anything.

A Daylight filament LED bulb would be cool.. I might have to look those up on eBay.
I'm also tempted to pick up a green one...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 21, 2016, 11:43:48 PM
Wow, your FM dial is almost perfectly spaced for the most part too!  One empty channel between stations, I only saw one exception to that!  Change the search terms to include "fringe" and you get a lot more too, some co-channel stations as well.  65 FM signals, that's a lot but I know of places with over 100 audible from a given location with a good antenna.  I should also add the nice thing about that particular location I mentioned (Big Delta, Alaska) is that I would have had the benefits of big-city radio and its really commercial formats with every music format (Fairbanks) and the small-town, independent, lots of non-commercial stations and lots of translators of other stations from other places besides Fairbanks vibe of Delta Junction, a town of about 900 people versus Fairbanks and it's surrounding area 50,000-ish (my estimate).

I'm running my spent Vita-Lite PowerTwist, which was abused by a BenchLite and probably not inserted right, on an '89 Advance slimline ballast.  Originally I thought it would die fast and give a good show, but nope!  Since the cathode is intact I wonder if running at full power on the slimline ballast will "clean up" the bad end to the point where it will work on rapid start or preheat again?  If so I can pair it with my other one somewhere.  ;D

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 25, 2016, 10:06:12 PM
I scored some F40s from school today after some relamping was done by the maintenance guys.  Finally someone who replaces lamps in pairs and more or less group relamps a room, although said room was almost totally dark before, about two out of 12 fixtures working, no joke!  It's soooooo bright in there now by comparison now.  The Sylvania F40CWX lamps actually don't look too bad on the full-power RS ballasts (the building is full of old Advance Kool-Koil and Universal Therm-O-Matic ballasts) and the 87 CRI vs. 60-70 is really noticeable too, colors really pop!  They're the same 1X4 surface-mount Metalux/Gibson troffers like I have, mine came from that building. 

I scored three Norelco F40CWs with the same endcaps as modern Sylvanias that have low hours but sat with cathodes still powered for literally years most likely, a GE F40WW Mainlighter, and a Westpointe (GE/True Value hardware light bulb brand) SP41.  All lamps I already had, but good nonetheless.  I felt good saving the Norelcos and Mainlighter from being broken and taken to the dump at the hub of the district LOL.  There's more but they're mostly GE Watt-Misers and lots of GE-made Ace brand F40SP41s that are definitely burnt on the ends, nothing really worth saving, though I think there may be another Mainlighter or two in there.  I didn't pick through each and every lamp but the endcaps were all GE so I got all the low-hours Norelcos for sure.

Oddly, despite low hours, the Norelcos are kinda browned the entire length of the lamp.  Probably all the heat in those fixtures.  Two are now in service in one of the Sears shoplights in my garage, next to another Sears light with the same Norelco lamps, from the same place but a couple years ago.  We'll see how long they actually last if I keep them in service since the cathodes were still powered for years and even the lamps dim-glowing, the way they do on HPF RS when their mate is dead or missing. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 26, 2016, 02:02:37 PM
Nice! I'm trying to get a job as a custodian or maintenance hand in a small-ish scale building where I can work on the lighting. I'm going to try asking around at the doctors' offices I go to and see where I can get from there...

Yeah I find here that they wait until most of the lights are out before fixing any.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 27, 2016, 07:48:20 PM
Great!  One of my latest "Ideas" is a tugboat captain, since it's well paying and you get time on/time off/time on/time off.  Home time at every time of the year.  I was originally going to pursue a nautical carreer and took a class and started halfhearted attempts at documenting sea hours but never finished LOL.  The backstory there is that I was originally going to be owning and running a 72' boat but at this point I'm trying to get out from under it.  (family business ventures don't always work well, it's a long story).  So after last summer was absolute hell for me (it was arguably the absolute worst chapter in my life thus far) I decided I was more or less done but now we'll see.  I doubt they offer that sort of thing in Fairbanks, Alaska LOL...which is where I'm moving for college and have a really good situation going anyway, I might have run into the perfect roommate as well, it was a classic case of meeting by accident (over the Internet no less).  If you want, Mike, I can email or PM you and tell you the story, you'd get a kick out of it but I don't feel like sharing it "in public" LOL.
And, on a side note, I graduated yesterday.  Finally!  It still feels like I only just started high school though, time flew by, especially this last year!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 27, 2016, 08:57:49 PM
Oh boy. Yeah sure, email me if you want. I'm graduating June 11th.

Yesterday I installed the home-made PL-13 fixture on the side of my shed. Right now it's just the housing and lens panel, no gear tray. I want to make sure the installation is water-tight before I install the gear tray and ruin the ballasts and stuff. I installed a two-gang steel work box for the switches (toggle closest to the door is for inside light, toggle furthest from door is for the PL13 light). I will be installing one duplex outlet underneath the PL13 fixture and it will have a cord about 6 to 12 inches long to use to connect the shed to power (I'd run an extension cord across the yard and plug it into the short plug on the shed. the reason the cord is gonna be so short is because I don't want it laying on the ground and don't want to have to wrap it up. When I want to plug in the M-250R and the shed, I can run the cord to the shed and plug the M-250R into my shed's outlet. And then I could use the outlet under the M-250R on the original shed to plug something else in if I wanted to.

For a light inside the shed, I'd actually like to find a 2X F30T12 fixture. An F40T12 would fit (and I have plenty of them, so I might end up using one of them) but I think an F30T12 would would perfect with the shelving and everything. If I install a F40T12 I'll probably use one of the western electric fixtures or the 1973 shoplight that served a lot of time in the utility room before I replaced it with the F48/HO. Come to think of it, the F48/HO would probably do better outside in the cold but I don't anticipate being out there at night when it's dark. And the HO is too cool to leave locked up in the shed. ;D

Maybe I'll install multiple F20T12 fixtures instead... I don't know yet... I should probably focus on getting the roof on before I wire up the inside lol. I also need to work on the shelving too and the soffit. I might use some metal window screen as a soffit (thus a vented soffit) instead of going through all the work of making a plywood soffit. Suggestions?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on May 27, 2016, 11:45:03 PM
@GEsoftwhite100watts:
Yep pretty much perfectly spaced/& full Fm band there for the city (ofcourse where I'm at there's a bit less stations...think it dropped of another 10-15 using the zipcode LOL)

Good score on those F40's

Tugboat captain would be an interesting one...

Congrats on Graduation!
(For me, graduation was a long time ago .. more than 2 decades!)


--------
@Mike:
LOL at "they wait until most of the lights are out before fixing any."

Yeah, I'd say get the roof completed before worrying about lighting!
Though personally for inside light I'd just throw up a couple generic/common 4-footers.
And I'd do a plywood soffit (not all that hard, I've done it once in the past)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 27, 2016, 11:49:10 PM
Oh wow, by my definition 10-15 stations is a lot to lose!

Yeah, I happen to really like the Norelco fluorescents anyway, so I jumped at the chance to save 3 more.

Yeah, I've had all sorts of crazy ideas for careers or places to live.

Did you get the metal for the roof ordered yet, Mike?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 28, 2016, 12:03:44 PM
@ xmas: I'm on the fence about the soffit. The screened soffit would also serve as a vent for the unit and look better than having two rake end vents. I still might put a rake end vent on the backside but that side isn't seen so it doesn't matter to me. But on the other hand, a solid soffit has its advantages over a screened soffit. IDK, afterall, it's just a shed and a roll of vent mesh is like ten bucks...

@ Andy: yes, the metal roofing has been ordered. I'm just waiting on Home Depot to ship it to their store for me to pick up.

Today I installed the outlet box and wired the outlet box up with the outlet and wired up the switch box. The only thing left to do is connect the cable for the interior light to a fixture/fixtures. I normally install an outlet box on the ceiling and wire the fixture with a cord but I think this time around I'm going to hardwire the lights since they're gonna be hardmounted to the rafters (so that the light/lights are on an angle). I want the light/lights at an angle because they're going to be mounted off-center (away from the shelving) so I want the light to still be thrown at the shelves. Once the sheet metal is on the roof, I'll install the door, install the corner trim, install the interior light, work on the shelving inside, paint the shed, and move my stuff into it!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 28, 2016, 11:41:43 PM
What color/pattern?  "$h!t-Brickle-Brown" (local nickname for that color, like the "Bear $h!t for Henry's roofing tar) Delta-rib?

My Bluefire A19 5w 5000K filament LEDs arrived today.  I love them but they're GLARY! They make really great refrigerator bulbs though, and I put two others in a motion sensor light.  They're really resistant to voltage brownouts, being rated 85-260v.  (I know, I installed/tried them at first while the washer was on the agitate cycle, which sense my power during the day comes from my neighbor's generator through 325 feet of #12 extension cord strung between our properties and with incandescent it's like disco lighting with the washer agitating but these hardly flickered at all). 

They still buzz on a modified sine wave inverter like CFLs do.  I need to see how much RFI they make, though, if they don't make much I can think of another major application I might order another 4 packs for. 

Color is like most other 5000K-ish LEDs, kinda a greenish-tinged white.  Think single-diode, high-intenstity, Maglite-police-head-bashing-drunk-driver-flashlight-retroft color.  (Sorry, when I think MagLite I think riot police or pulling over drunk drivers LOL). 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on May 29, 2016, 12:38:10 AM
@Mike:
I guess if it was me I wouldn't even worry about vents of any sort .lol. just build it nice & sealed up.
Good that you're getting some of the wiring done.

@GEsoftwhite100watts:
Yep..sometime I'll have to actually go through the list it gives & see how many I can actually get.
Cool  that those LEDs have arrived .. I bet that the blue-ish-white filament color looks a bit weird (but at the same time cool) though?


I picked up a case of Sylvania F40 'Design 50' at a garage sale today .. kinda dim I know, but un-opened for $8 didn't seem too bad. Older full mercury too, so come right up to full dimness LOL
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 29, 2016, 08:12:29 AM
 This is what the panels will look like.  (http://www.homedepot.com/p/Metal-Sales-5-ft-Classic-Rib-Steel-Roof-Panel-in-Light-Stone-2313163/204254756) Beige with that rib design.

Are you sure vents aren't needed? I thought it would get really hot if the shed wasn't vented?

Nice score on those design 50s. I have a case of them I bought at Lowe's a few years back. I love the color but they really are pathetically dim. I love the GE CX50 lamps though. Same beautiful color and nice and bright (2900 lumens).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on May 29, 2016, 01:26:59 PM
@Mike:
Have seen metal roof/wall panels like that around.

I've seen plenty of sheds with no vents.. wouldn't hurt to add them, but I assume they aren't actually needed

Yeah, I figured for the price it was just worth grabbing that case of D50 . I was deff happy to see non-ecolux when I pulled a couple out to test. Didn't know GE made a brighter version..just figured the deluxe was dim too.

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 29, 2016, 02:52:15 PM
Yeah, they're a bit glary.  I like them though.

AM RFI is there, but minimal.  I might get a few more packs for another application because of that.

Nice score on the D50s...was it a case of 30? 

CX50 is the evolution of Chroma 50 I guess, a hybrid of the SPX50 and C50 phosphors.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 29, 2016, 07:30:44 PM
Well, I installed the door today! Went through three tubes of caulking (I had also tried sealing off the inside the shed where the walls meet the floor though since I've had tons of little ants crawling around on the floor! I'm hoping I've sealed off their entryway.)

I also marked out the shelving and made plans for that as well. It will require (12) 2X4X8 studs and (5) 2ft X 4ft X 7/16" OSB. I could get the 4X8ft sheets since they're cheaper but OSB is cheap $h!t as it is and the shelves are gonna be 24" deep so I'm just being lazy and trying to avoid ripping the boards lol. The shelves on the side of the shed will be for street lights and the back wall will have shorter shelves for fluorescent fixtures. There is 50" below all the shelves where I can stand up 4ft fluorescents as well and medium sized cobraheads (which are 30-40" long generally) because the street lights shelves, being 24" long, will really only be suitable for small sized cobraheads, which I have more of. The fluorescent fixture shelves will be 24" deep too, so I figure two fixtures can fit side-by-side on a shelf. It's hard to design shelving efficiently when you don't necessarily know what you'll be storing in it lol. Fixtures vary in size and shape so it's hard to design compact shelves that will still be adequately sized.

And yes, CX50 is a cross-breed. It's 87CRI and 2900 lumens. Nice and bright and crisp color. They're sold in twin-packs at Lowe's.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on May 29, 2016, 10:35:04 PM
@GEsoftwhite100watts:
Yeah, but those type of LEDs are a bit glary just by nature, nomatter the color...

Good that RFI  minimal.

The D50s is a case of 10.



@Mike:
Ug. I hate ants. Get a bag of diazinon granules, and go around the perimeter of the shed (outside)  + if you can throw some underneith.. that'll kill the ants.

If you're buying the OSB for shelves at Home Depot, just get full sheets & have them cut it (they'll give you a few free cuts! - atleast the stores here do) :)

Maybe if Lowes ever has 'em on sale I'll grab a 2pk of those CX50 just to check them out...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 30, 2016, 10:07:29 AM
How long will that stuff last and will it burn the grass at all?

Oh they will? I'll have to look into that.  8)

Yeah they're a bit pricey at $9.98 a pair (same price as all the other colors though) but I've accumulated six or eight of the lamps since I love them so much. ;D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 30, 2016, 11:05:23 AM
Mike, do you guys have the "carpenter ants" there? 

Yeah, I need to try some CX50s I guess.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on May 30, 2016, 11:34:54 AM
@Mike: Not sure how long it'll last, but particularly under the shed where it won't get rained on, it'll do for awhile :)
Won't burn the grass, obviously just don't use it right near the vegetable garden...
Yep they will..I've had boards cut there plenty of times, even sheets of plywood.

Yeah thats a bit pricey (though like you say, other 2pks are around that too)


@GEsoftwhite100watts:
Those carpenter ants are big nasty things (and like all ants just need to die)
If you find the entrance to where they're living, and use a flat-edge screwdriver to poke at them coming out, you can hear the little mouths biting it :o
Its also fun to set a log/board on fire that they're living in...they'll start pouring out LOL
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 30, 2016, 12:26:09 PM
Yes I think we do have carpenter ants but the ones on my shed were all small brown ants about the size of icecream jimmies. They're what I call "regular brown ants" but IDK the real name for them.

BTW, I ordered one of  These.  (http://www.ebay.com/itm/COMMERCIAL-LIGHT-FIXTURE-USED-ROADWAY-STREET-PARKING-ARENA/191879009950?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D36537%26meid%3De450e8655f5d4febb1d29c3a1012d16d%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D191844239490) I'm going to convert it to induction when I get it, as the ballast is 480V and 200W HPS. I have 85W induction gear that will fit nicely inside the light.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 30, 2016, 04:24:21 PM
Sweet! I'm curious as to the result!

Pushing back working on the M-400A until December/January, but I'll post pics of the insides when I do so I can get help wiring it up (hint, hint, Mike!)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on May 30, 2016, 09:13:31 PM
Nice! it would be interesting to see a induction L-150. Pretty good price for one too, especially for those who have extra lamps and ballasts lying around. Too bad shipping to Canada would cost a arm and a leg or I'd consider getting one.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 30, 2016, 09:23:45 PM
Me too! LOL I can't wait for the light to get here and I'm sure it hasn't even shipped yet. The photocell socket will get here earlier than the light itself will. These L-150s are notorious for stuck screws/bolts so I'll probably have to work at that and I'll probably have to customize the socket bracket for the induction lamp. The ballast bracket is just a pressure bar (you'll know what I mean when I post pics) so basically any ballast will fit fine. It's two long screws and a long steel bar that goes between them. You seat the ballast between the screws and tighten the screws until the bar is pushing against the ballast. So the ballast is held in with friction. And for the PC socket I'll just have to drill three holes and wire it in.

Oh boy! yeah GE fixtures are a breeze to wire up as long as no one has screwed with the wiring in the past. If the light is 120V, the hot goes to the far left terminal and the neutral goes to far right. If it's 240V with 120V PC, the same applied and the second hot is in the center. If it's not either of those I'll have to take a look. GE uses different color wires too, which is nice. American Electric cobraheads always used black wires for everything (even the neutrals!) so wiring up one of them after it's been taken apart is a NIGHTMARE. I have a 250W HPS American Electric ballast for a Series 13 light and I labeled all the wires since there's no way to tell them apart! Every wire on the ballast is the same black wire lol.


@ Joe: Yeah I'm looking forward to getting it. ;D Will definitely post pics too.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 30, 2016, 09:51:16 PM
Yeah, I hope it's 120v or is multitap and thus easy to switch over to 120v for obvious reasons.  240v might not be too bad as my godfather has a woodworking shop so I imagine some of the tools are 240v...so I should have easy access at least in theory through a dryer/range outlet or at least hotwiring into a breaker panel to test.  Didn't you once test a fixture by wiring a fixture to 120v like normal, then wiring another hot from the other side of the outlet or something like that?

His shop is at their house so in a residential area so I doubt they have 3-phase (208v, 277v, and much less likely 480v).  If it's one of those voltages I may just disconnect the ballast (but leave everything in place, just disconnected but not really messed with otherwise, left in place and ready to go) and wire the socket directly to the mains, except for maybe the PC socket inline, for 120v so I can use a large mogul-base CFL or something.  It'll be dim and the optics will be less than ideal but I'll be able to say I have a working cobrahead.  Or I might remote-ballast it to 175w MV.  I have a yardblaster that could use a lot of help I might just scrap for the ballast and PC socket and remote ballast it that way.  But that stuff will be in Alaska, I'll be in California, you get the idea.  But I have lots of junk still in storage at their place and another family friend's place, so it shouldn't be a problem keeping it there.  Stuff like the cobra and the rocking chair that's been in my family for five generations isn't easy to ship and I refuse to ship the chair without me...most likely it will go to Alaska, if it does at all, in the bed of a Deuce or 5 ton Army surplus truck during a road trip.  (One crazy idea my potential roommate and I have had is a road trip in a few years from Hays, Kansas to Fairbanks, Alaska, stopping in the Atascadero, California area since we both have connections there.  (I will email you later and tell you the whole story, it's the one I promised I'd tell you)

The M-400A might sit at their place for awhile even if I get it working, at this point I'll be living in the dorms at college and I don't want to ship a heavy cobrahead up there unless I have no other choice...it'll be expensive to ship from Templeton, California to Fairbanks, Alaska.  Although if either my dad and I or someone else I coincidentally ran into who knows the same places I do (no joke, they're from Kansas but know Alaska well and will be exchanging up there and maybe doing grad school in Fairbanks) get a house together I'd install it there.  Or somehow it'll make it all the way out to my current house in Port Alexander and get put up here. That's even less likely since I won't be spending much time here for the near future after I move in a couple weeks.  (I'll be keeping the house though, but not living here full time again, at least not for a few years).

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 31, 2016, 08:15:13 PM
I tried something like that, but it doesn't work. In order to get 240V using two 120V outlets, you need to make sure the outlets are wired to breakers on opposite sides of the panel (i.e. one outlet's circuit is made with one 120V hot from the supply to the panel and the other outlet's circuit is made using the other 120V wire supplying the panel; if you use two outlets wired to the same hot wire (not necessarily the same circuit, but two circuits on the same side of the panel) you'll actually get zero volts).


Today I got a door knob for the door I installed (now I can lock up my shed!) and I bought the 2X4s and OSB for my shed. Stupid me miscalculated the OSB big time though so I'll need to go back and get some more. I'll wait til I use what I have though since it'll be more fool-proof to figure out what I need once I've installed all I have lol. When you open the door, to the left there will be two shelves, the first about 50" off the floor and the second about 2ft above it. Those will be for holding cobraheads. Against the back of the shed (opposite the wall with the door) there will be three (or four? I forget what I marked out on the wall LOL) shelves that will be spaced closer together (less clearance between each shelf) that will be for fluorescent fixtures and other odds and ends and lamps, photocells, etc. The lowest shelf on that back wall will also be around 50" off the floor. That ~50" clearance under the shelves allows me to stand up 4ft fluorescents under the shelves or stand up larger cobraheads that won't fit on the shelves, (basically anything the size of that M-400A in Atascadero).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 01, 2016, 12:09:49 AM
What did you get for a doorknob?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on June 01, 2016, 05:45:10 AM
Just a cheapo $10 keyed knob. It's DEFIANT (Home Depot) brand and "antique brass" finish.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 01, 2016, 11:14:25 AM
Interesting. I wonder if it's DEFIANT to would-be burgulars?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on June 01, 2016, 08:28:37 PM
LOL I'm not sure. With a sledge hammer and a couple whacks you could probably take the door knob off (but at that point you might as well just try smacking the door where the door knob latch is and essentially break in fireman style lol).

Well, I got most of the shelving up and ready-to-go! Gotta get more materials though since I won't have enough to finish. The PL13 light is wired up and works nicely too. Not too bright but the light it does cast is a beautiful color and the light pattern is pretty tight. It lights up a pretty narrow strip of grass, casting light mostly to the sides and at the building rather than forward. But that's fine with me. I'll grab pics soon. I've been too busy building to worry about pictures lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on June 01, 2016, 11:47:42 PM
Hmm, interesting that American Electric cobraheads have all black coloured wiring inside. Good progress on the shed project too. I've been slowly moving parts of my collection to a couple of new shelves I've put up in the basement.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 02, 2016, 12:02:21 AM
Or spray it with liquid nitrogen to make it easier to break...didn't MythBusters do a thing on that once?  Whatever happened to that show?

While you're building I've been fixing wiring issues and doing spring cleaning, especially since although I own my house I'm still "moving out" for college and whatever else lies ahead (although I own the house my dad will still live here).  So I'm pitching junk and organizing everything else (including lighting goodies) that I'll leave here in storage.  I rewired my "office" for one thing after I think a crimp connection in some #12 SJTW feeding an afterthoght-installed receptacle smoked itself (it didn't work and I could smell the burnt-wiring smell). I ended up surface-mounting the blue Carlon boxes with drywall screws (screwing into OSB and T-111 walls with drywall screws through the back of the boxes).  I also tapped into the nearest junction box from a "real" circuit (my stuff had previously been run on extension cords).  The nearest and easiest thing to tap into that had an unswitched hot was what had been a light fixture halfway up a wall in an adjacent room (had been a master bedroom at one point).  It was one of those ceramic pullchain jobs, which had the shell of its socket missing and was left without lightbulb and powered pretty much forever I guess. (I was plugging into the convenience outlet on the fixture, which still worked).  So I took that off, and you can imagine my surprise when I discovered it was fed with '50s-'60s-looking cloth-wrapped Romex like this ().  It was somewhat deteriorated, presumably from years/decades of 100 watt bulbs.  Inside the cloth is "paper" looking stuff, and rubber? insulated conductors.  The actual conductors were in fine shape, so I just wrapped the cloth outer jacket in electrical tape to theoretically preserve it.  (This is the oldest part of my house, and I don't think it dates to the '50s/'60s, I think the wire probably came from somewhere else considering the rest of my house and its recycled materials). I also think it lacks a ground, believe it or not, or it was at least snipped off really close.  (I should have tried stripping it further but didn't want to since the outer jacket was pretty flaky).  I drilled through the back of the (surprisingly white plastic) box through the wall and T-111 siding on the other side (was the oldest part of my house, my office is an addition and still has T-111 siding for a wall finish on that wall).  I then surface-mounted a box, tagged into the cloth stuff with newer (but reused) yellow 2010s Romex.  After that everything is exposed (walls already finished in T-111 or OSB) so I used #12 SJTW extension cord wire since it's a little more flexible and seems to hold up to abuse a little better.  I'm sure it probably wouldn't pass a code inspection but with faceplates on the boxes it seems like it meets the common-sense code LOL.  

I also decided to chuck the damaged-from-falling-11-feet Lithonia 8' slimline fixture, it's badly bent on one end, had rust issues, and I have four other good-condition Metalux 2XF96 fixtures I still need to install. Spring cleaning means tossing extra junk LOL.  
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on June 02, 2016, 04:33:01 PM
Thanks Joe! Yeah it's a slow but steady process. Finished the shelves today. They're not pretty but they hold me (200-210 pounds) so they're at least solid. The only things left now are the roof, trim, and paint!

Wow Andy, seem like you had a little bit of a scare there. :o Glad you were able to fix it. Yeah that romex stuff sounds like its from the 60s (my mom's mom and step-dad have it in their house and my mom's dad and step-mom had it in their apartment's basement before I ripped it all out and ran fresh #12 romex for the new fluorescent lights) so either old stock or reused.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 02, 2016, 07:05:39 PM
Yeah, I'm in the process of googling it to find out what it is and how old it is, for curiousity's sake if nothing else.  I like your point about it being old stock perhaps, I've installed 1990s "white" stuff new in the 2010s that was still laying around never used, and I've also reused said stuff.  Actually all the yellow #12 stuff I have I salvaged from a house demolition since I needed Romex and it was fairly modern and in good shape. 

Did you know green braided stuff existed? Or orange? Or baby blue plastic stuff? I didn't, though I had indeed seen (and have) some baby-blue stuff.  (baby blue dates to the '80s BTW). 

It wasn't in that bad of shape, I was just surprised to find it in a house I'm pretty sure was started originally (this was in the original cabin that's been built around since then) in the '70s (my house).  I'll let you know what I find on how old it is.  Power for the computer I'm typing this on and the light I'm working under is coming through said braided stuff though.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 02, 2016, 07:34:58 PM
OK, sounds like this stuff is '50s vintage, and lacks a ground conductor; it wasn't just snipped off.  I should "probably" add a GFCI where I tapped in, in all actuality.  Granted, it's still an upgrade; this room has never been grounded.  I also "need" GFCIs in the bathroom and kitchen.  Kitchen is '90s? white stuff with blue Carlon boxes, code-wise would that need a GFCI or did that come about later?  I know bathrooms had them by the '80s, I lived in a house built in '88 that had GFCI in the bathroom and in the garage but not the kitchen or outdoor outlets. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: LampLover84 on June 02, 2016, 08:31:03 PM
My apartment complex was built in three stages. The unit I am living in was built in 1983 and has black outer jacket romex (12-2 W/ground for the 20A circuits or 14-2 w/ground for the 15A circuits) The black outer jacket is very thick. The only thing that sucks is the electrical boxes are plastic and over the years and several replaced outlets and switches there are stripped holes (Which the maintenance staff solves by using a bigger screw  :8) )

All of the units that I have been in have the same black jacket romex so I would assume it is the original from 1978 when the first building were built and they bought a whole lot of it and used the same stuff for all of the units

Here is a picture of one of the boxes in my unit from when I replaced a light fixture

(http://webpages.charter.net/formatc/images/Electrical/Ceiling_Box.jpg)

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 02, 2016, 09:43:59 PM
The black stuff and the off-white boxes definitely looks like late '70s-early '80s for sure.   The original part of my house also has at least one run of that stuff you pictured above still in use, feeding my bathroom light.  There was more in the bathroom but we took it out during a gut-down-to-the-studs-and-rebuild-the-exterior-wall remodel.  I did save most of it for future projects, and still have some laying around.  It's good wire, better made than the '90s-'00s stuff.  Much thicker and heavier duty.

It's funny you should mention stripping out the screw holes, etc. since I had the very same thing happen and admittedly solved it the same way.  The screws holding the original ceramic pullchain light were thicker than regular receptacle screws, so it wouldn't hold, so I had to use bigger screws.  I was still able to get a faceplate on it though.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on June 02, 2016, 10:22:01 PM
IIRC those tan boxes are fiberglass and are still made. I've never had any stripped boxes here but using a larger screw seems like the logical thing to do. Or superglue around the screw threads, stick it in the stripped hole, and hope you never have to remove that outlet/switch again LOL.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 02, 2016, 11:35:33 PM
Interesting, maybe they are indeed fiberglass!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 27, 2016, 02:45:30 PM
I'm finally getting my first HO fixtures!  a friends garage has four vintage eight foot turrets whose brand I don't know yet but three have vintage GENERAL GE ELECTRIC lamps but one fixture doesn't work, I am sure the lamps are spent but the cathodes glow.  Fourth fixture has meatball etch GE Watt Misers. All cool white.  Garage is being remodeled into a library and I'm told I can have the turret lights! I have been wanting a high output fixture for years, wish me luck. Might be a few years but I'm heading off to college 700 miles away anyway. I do have some pics of them I'll post
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on June 27, 2016, 08:40:23 PM
Awesome! Welcome back BTW. I saw you posted that you got your wisdom teeth out. Feel any dumber? :D LOL I got mine out a couple years ago. Not the most fine time lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 27, 2016, 10:24:15 PM
Thanks! I still checked the site daily but wasn't logged in and typing from an iPhone sucks to say the least. I'm doing better than I was and coming off the anesthesia was better than I thought, I expected short term memory loss.  I woke up fully coherent but they still helped me down the stairs.  I'm actually staying at a friends house while I recover before I go back to work, hence how I stumbled upon the aforementioned fixtures.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on June 28, 2016, 12:00:21 AM
Ahh, at least you're still able to check the site. Glad to see you're doing fine. I've yet to have mine removed and I somewhat dread the day I have to get mine out lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 28, 2016, 10:15:13 AM
Yeah the rest of my life is really crazy though, working a weird job away from home to pay for college. I'll be in the dorms but coincidentally met someone that is from all the same places I am and is real similar, right down to the same birthday, so we applied as roommates and were accepted!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on June 28, 2016, 09:25:13 PM
Oh wow! What are the odds, regarding your roommate.  ;D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 28, 2016, 11:33:15 PM
It was pretty weird, we inadvertently met through a forum like LG or GOL about military vehicles. Basically they noticed my location was Alaska and it went from there. They also daily drove a Deucd at one point!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on June 29, 2016, 10:48:57 PM
Small world I guess. ;D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on July 01, 2016, 01:54:08 PM
I know, right?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on July 12, 2016, 08:05:17 PM
So I've decided that as soon as I set up my PO box at University of Alaska Fairbanks, (since I'll be living in the dorms, but with that small-world-coincidence roommate) I'm going to start hunting for one of those vintage manual-preheat desk lamps on eBay.  Preferably a 2-lamp Dazor brand unit.  If it has vintage lamps like ancient Westinghouse black-enders then I'll probably buy something cheap and modern and disposable like crappy modern Indonesian GEs.  Hopefully daylight or /C50.  I'm sure it will get plenty of use this winter:)

If I can't find one for a reasonable price I'll go for an incandescent "Banker" lamp, know the ones?  Green glass shade, etc?  I always liked those as a kid and even had one at one point, I miss it now.  It would probably get some kind of daylight CFL if that's the case.  Whatever it is should double as a SAD type light since the winters up there are dark and cold LOL. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on July 14, 2016, 08:27:34 AM
Yeah those preheat desk lamps are awesome or one of those incandescent "Law & Order" desk lamps lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on July 14, 2016, 04:47:45 PM
Yeah I like the 2 lamp 15 watt versions, especially the vintage Dazor clamp on units. Another thing I'll get if I'm ever in my own not shared dorm is an old stereo tuner/amplifier and vintage speakers.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on July 28, 2016, 05:24:51 PM
OK so another phase of the conversion to LED is complete at my house.  Feit 800 lumen 9 watt 5000K units.  Nice and bright, but flickery on generator power with bad cycles.  They work great and are silent on modified sine wave inverter electricity but take  a full second or two to light on inverter power, but light "instantly" at full brightness when it does happen.  It's a little weird flipping the switch and having nothing happen for the first seconds, even preheat and rapid start fluorescents usually flicker or flash before that. 

4 of the LEDs in two Y-adapters in clip lights in a room that will be lit with F96T12 slimlines once I get a case of lamps are very bright, you'd be surprised! Makes me almost think twice about the slimlines but the latter has the "cool" factor the LEDs just don't.  I like having the "interesting" lighting like slimlines (the F96T12 slimline would probably be my favorite fluorescent lamp if I had to pick just one), vintage HPF 2XF40/RS with vintage lamps (my lights don't get used all that much, so I'm fine with having vintage lamps in use, (most of the F40T12 lamps in use presently are F40CWs, which haven't been made in 20 years LOL), or smaller preheat lamps.  Eventually sone of the cheap stoplights and wraparounds with "residential" ballasts will probably get replaced with either more slimlines (I have extra, older, magnetically-ballasted fixtures) or F96T12/HO turrets I'm getting. 

Another crazy idea I had:  Replacing three "mushroom" type incandescent fixtures and a "breast" incandescent fixture with F96/HO turrets or slimlines.  800 lumen 9w LEDs replaced with 2X110w...LOL
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on July 28, 2016, 08:06:51 PM
LEDisease, aye? :P We have LEDs in the 4-lamp fixture over the kitchen island and the 4-lamp ceiling fan over the dining room table. Also the two-lamp mushroom light over the kitchen since has one Cree LED and one CFL. It had two Cree LEDs til one died. They were freebies at the ReStore anyway and were used (well they were 25 cents each but they were basically free as far as LED prices go LOL).

My bedroom has three OSRAM LEDs and my brother's bedroom has the three Utilitech LEDs I used to have. They weren't bright enough for me anymore, though I prefer the color over the warm white incandescents or the LEDs I have now, which do a pretty good job mimicking incandescent.

Both bathrooms have a clear 53W (75W=) Sylvania halogen lamp in the exhaust light and incandescent soft white globes in the vanity. The hallway has the original 52W incandescent supersaver softwhites. My parent's bedroom has two 53W clear Sylvania halogens in the ceiling fan light. My brother's table lamp on the dresser has an older OSRAM LED. The table lamp in the living room has a 3-way CFL. Those things are pretty pathetic but it does the job... And the lights outside by the front door and garage are clear 53W halogens (sylvania as well). Downstairs is all old tech except for the F17T8 wrap and F32T8 troffer. Everything else is incandescent/halogen or magnetic fluorescent.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on July 28, 2016, 09:36:58 PM
I just need to find an F40 preheater.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on July 28, 2016, 09:51:16 PM
Heh, I actually replaced the majority of the CFLs at my house with LEDs mainly for the instant on and dimmabilty. Some of my LEDs are new/lightly used finds from Restore and the ones I bought new were subsidized by the local power company. I even picked a LED tube for the heck of it but I found the T8s were better.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on July 28, 2016, 10:23:27 PM
Yeah I haven't seen any LED tubes I like yet, plus I like old fluorescents. If anything the Philips InstantFit tubes are what I'd use, in my T8 fixtures.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on July 29, 2016, 02:11:56 PM
I haven't tried LED tubes yet. I don't really plan to either though, unless they're free lol. I replaced the CFLs with LEDs for instant on and better color quality but we don't have any dimmers in my house so dimmability wasn't a factor for me.

BTW, tomorrow I'm visiting Joe Maurath. I'll keep you posted on my additions later this weekend/early next week. :D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on July 29, 2016, 04:28:53 PM
Yeah the warmer ones are a much more convincing incandescent replacement it seems. I have some earlier cheap Philips ones that are more CFL like in color though.

Daylight not so much a convincing daylight CFL replacement though, I still prefer 6500K CFLs but the instant on of the LEDs and less power usage is an acceptable trade off for that.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on July 29, 2016, 08:47:59 PM
I'm with you, I like daylight CFLs over daylight LEDs. Most daylight LEDs are actually 5000K but still, LEDs are very harsh to the eyes when they're in high kelvin. Much more so than fluorescent lighting, which is naturally easy on the eyes.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on July 30, 2016, 02:29:45 PM
They do however sure beat well used 2700K spirals! Do you have any cooler color CFLs?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on July 31, 2016, 06:44:35 PM
Nope, all my CFLs are 2700K. I think I have some 3000K PL lamps and I have those two 5000K PLs in my shed's outside light.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on July 31, 2016, 08:20:50 PM
I'm trying to find Cool Green  F15T8s. Anyone have any suggestions?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 01, 2016, 07:48:33 PM
Green Sharpie ;D (JK, LOL)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 03, 2016, 12:38:30 AM
I finally just bought some daylight lamps instead to replace the vintage Lifelines in the lamp I'm buying.0
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 03, 2016, 07:44:37 PM
Ooo what brand are they? Sylvania?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 03, 2016, 10:07:35 PM
I think they're generic.  From Amazon no less.  10-pack for 64 bucks, a lifetime supply for that particular lamp and/or I have other fixtures back home (preheat under cabinet lights) that take F15T8 lamps.  Might as well thus buy them by the case quantity for a good deal like that, a cheap Indonesian GE Kitchen & Bath goes for like 12 bucks at the Sitka True Value.  (NOT the one with the daylight slimlines, that's J&S Warehouse True Value Hardware & Lumber in Craig; I haven't really perused their electrical section believe it or not since I've always been in a hurry every time I've gone in the Craig store but I've had plenty of time to mosey around the Sitka location).

They claim to be "Octron Series" but you know how Amazon listings are! I think they might even be /DX and not just /D, according to the always-wrong-on specifics listings, we'll see...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 03, 2016, 11:05:48 PM
Yikes $64?! Lowe's sells Sylvania 10-pk F40/DX lamps for less than $30/case. :o
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 03, 2016, 11:06:54 PM
Still cheap for 10 lamps...and buying stuff locally in Alaska can get expensive.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 04, 2016, 08:33:47 AM
Eh that's still six bucks a lamp. :o Fluorescent lamps are weird though. Sometimes they sell for $10/pair or you can buy a whole case of 30 for $25 (Sylvania F34T12/CWX supersavers).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 04, 2016, 06:21:00 PM
I know, right?

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 09, 2016, 03:38:06 PM
So I made the pleasant discovery that the new Hungarian GE bug lights are actually a decent deep saturated yellow! My dad bought a pack for his1940 vintage vapor tight and it honestly looks much better with an incandescent than the plethora of spiral CFLs of various color tempsI've run it through over time. It's brighter than the CFL bug lights too. These have the horizontal filament which I've never seen in a bug light.

I am considering pitching the idea of trading for a new modern vapor tight, I want this fixture.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 27, 2016, 05:28:25 PM
So last night while trying to navigate the aisles of Fred Meyer at 12AM with the store being stormed by thousands of entering college students during the College Night (just think another stupid Black-Friday type sale) I found the current GE 10.5w A-line LEDs are being sold in 4-packs!  I bought a pack since I needed bulbs for a new gooseneck desk lamp.  I knew they'd be good since I already had two in use at home already.  I like them quite a bit, though if there had been an 800 lumen daylight version I would have bought that.  As winter draws closer I may still look for something 5000K/6500K. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on August 27, 2016, 11:59:48 PM
Sometime earlier this week I went to Lowes to go back through their clearance.
Found a couple things I was gonna get. One was a 4' wraparound-ish light, the other was a photocell....

When I went to the register the guy scanned the light & it pops up a message "This item is under investigation and cannot be sold" :o  I guess that means it was probably recalled or something
The photocell scanned for $1 just like the shelftag said :) I might go grab another one of those as a spare tomorrow.


Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 28, 2016, 12:07:37 AM
I just read a thing the 4' Cree LED tubes are under a recall...

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 28, 2016, 03:01:07 PM
LOL at the message the cashier got. ;D Your explanation makes more sense, though my first guess would have been that there was a crime involved lol.

Lately I've been getting my LEDs at the Restore for $2 a pop NOS. They're MaxLED lamps. I had bought 10 11W 800L warm white 60W replacements. Four in the light over the dining room table and four over the kitchen island. I like them because they're not as warm as the newer LEDs (they're more like a halogen color). Plus the electronics portion is metal instead of plastic. The other two are spares in case any of them die early. So far so good.

Recently, I found some MaxLED 75W= LEDs rated for 1100 lumens (also 11W like the 60W= ones so these must be newer, as the current 60W ones are typically around 8W) at the Restore so I bought four for the outside lights. I currently have two of them installed to see how well they did. The outside lights are base-down so I figured the LEDs wouldn't do good since they'd basically be sending all the light into the cover of the light, which is black. They seem to be nearly as effective as the 53W halogens though! I like the crisp color of the halogens better but whatev. The lights by the front door are still halogen, as those fixtures have integral PCs so when we leave the house, they're only on at night. the garage lights are on 24/7 while we're gone, so the 11W vs 53W is advantageous.

I has bought four of them, so when the halogens around the front door go I'll replace them with the LEDs too. I haven't been able to find 75 or 100W= LEDs this cheap yet so I've held out on getting some. The 40 and 60W ones are pretty cheap and come in multi-packs (but we don't use any 40W lights in out house; too dim) so most of our 60W fixtures are LED. We only have one 100W fixture and it's the keyless socket in the garage. It's still incandescent and will remain incandescent. It's over the loft in the back of the garage so I'd fear a CFL would get broken and 100W LEDs are too expensive. Plus we don't really use the garage light enough to justify it. (and on top of that, you can't beat the preheat shoplight, rapid start turret, and incandescent combination!)

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 28, 2016, 05:17:42 PM
Yeah, the multi packs are definitely handy.  I like "whiter" light myself; hence why much of my house is 5000K now. 

Yeah, the incandescent is nice since there's instant light while the fluorescents take a few seconds to come on LOL.  But an LED that was bright enough would do the job.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 28, 2016, 06:54:41 PM
I like a halogen-like color (like 3500K, but without the pink color). I wouldn't want daylight or 5000K (or even 4100K) lamps in living space (save for accent lighting) since it makes the house feel colder and less "homey"
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 28, 2016, 06:55:37 PM
This is true unless it's high-CRI stuff like Vita-Lite, I love it!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on August 29, 2016, 11:26:01 PM
@Mike:
I know.. makes it sound like that fixture did something bad  LOL
------------

As for color. Depends on the room... in some I prefer warmwhite/3000k, others something 'cooler' like daylight is fine.  :)
I've got a basement familyroom (its not really used any more) that has both daylight and   warmwhite...2 different switches, so you can pick which color you feel like :)

------
I saw an interesting thing on eBay last night: An Instant-start dimmable F32 ballast! Never knew such a thing existed. I wonder how it works though, it seems to me if you instant-start  to run lamps lamps, but also have it dimmed down, that would wear them out quickly??
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 29, 2016, 11:36:20 PM
So I'm looking into getting a house here in Fairbanks, AK, where I just moved to for school. I'd like to get out of the dorms, and all their other crazy people LOL.  (don't get me wrong, my roommate is GREAT).  Many homes here have no running water believe it or not, (but it means the rent is cheap).  I'd like to buy one of these "dry cabins" this winter/spring if possible.  A friend has suggested they could help put in a bathroom.  So lots of off-topic plumbing and construction photos for the off-topic section of Lighting Gallery might be in the future.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 30, 2016, 09:29:36 AM
As far as I know, in order for a Fluorescent ballast to dim the lamps, it needs to provide cathode heating to prevent sputtering from being underdriven, right?

Wow it's illegal to rent a home without indoor plumbing (including hot water) and heat here. I assume the same is true in most "developed" areas. If you're going to install a bathroom, do yourself a favor and do it to code while you're building it. A lot hard to change it after it's built lol. Bathrooms are one thing I will not work with since there's too many codes involved with electrical, plumbing, etc.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 30, 2016, 12:29:03 PM
Yeah, as someone put it really well "It's specifically a Fairbanks thing" I guess.  It's just not practical to run water mains when it can get as cold as -70F in the winter!  (although it can get to like 110F in the summer too!).  Fairbanks is a pretty developed, west-coast-strip-mall type city but once you get outside of the city it's back to the boondocks LOL. 

Yeah, properly-built-to-code stuff is a selling point, since at this point I don't plan on living here forever LOL, it's a temporary move but long enough (at least 4 years, maybe more, however long it takes me to get through college) that it's worth getting something.  I was joking with my roommate that we'd be in Home Depot being all picky about tile, etc. and their response was "Eh, no, OSB floor is fine". (Does stuff like that count as code as long as the plumbing, electrical, etc is done properly?  There is, however, apparently a loophole in the tax code here (according to a random local I was talking with) that if your house isn't fully finished on the outside (read: no siding) your property tax rates are cheaper.  Which is ironic since my house I actually do own is in a small municipality (Port Alexander, AK) that has no property taxes, but many houses still aren't finished! But between a bathroom and a garage I can see lots of opportunities to learn carpentry skills. 

I might not put in a bathroom for awhile but as long as it's done before moving out and selling the place I can see it being a huge selling point:  It has water!  It has a flushing commode!  I know this since I've been on both ends of it, I've previously participated in house-hunting up here.  One of the houses I looked at did have a bathroom that was clearly an addition LOL...shed roof off of the main house.

And if I don't get a place and if my roommate doesn't become an Alaska resident I may transfer (well, exchange for a year) to Hays, Kansas.  I wonder how many people will question my sanity?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on August 30, 2016, 07:43:49 PM
Quote from: GEsoftwhite100watts
  it can get as cold as -70F in the winter!
That's cold not just cold...or even fucking cold...its a whole level beyond that . :o

Just one of the reasons I'll never live in Alaska. LOL


Quote from: Mike
As far as I know, in order for a Fluorescent ballast to dim the lamps, it needs to provide cathode heating to prevent sputtering from being underdriven, right? 
That's my understanding. I went back and re-found that thing...it only dims to 60% (basically useless, but I guess that's how they can get by "dimming" IS without damaging the lamps)


Quote from: Mike
Wow it's illegal to rent a home without indoor plumbing (including hot water) and heat here. 
I have a feeling same thing here. Certainly you'd never get any buyers/renters on such a house. I don't even know that you could build a 'dry cabin' in the mountains as a summer getaway place (ie: something where you wouldn't be "living in" but just spending occasional summer weekends)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 30, 2016, 09:03:31 PM
No the floor must be OK to get water on (OSB is especially a no-no, though it's fine as a subfloor as long as you get OSB specifically rated as a subfloor [same applies to any room of the house]. Normally OSB subfloor is tongue-and-groove and usually around an inch thick.)

I'd suggest a ceramic tile for the bathroom (try to avoid smooth shiny tiles since you're more apt to slip and mutilate yourself on either the tub, toilet, or sink, all of which would hurt like heck lol). If you choose a laminate floor for the bathroom make sure you use a water and mold resistant subfloor. God forbid the toilet, tub, or sink overflows. OSB will swell up and buckle and make the floor look horrible. Not to mention after a couple times, the OSB might be structurally sound, as the water will likely sit in spots you can't reach to mop up and soak into the glue and undo it.

I just don't even like to think about bathrooms lol. WAAAY too many codes and special requirements. Electrical is actually the least of the code headaches. The only requirement I'm aware of is that one GFCI outlet is required along the countertop of the sink and this outlet must be supplied by a 20A circuit dedicated to bathrooms. (If you have multiple bathrooms, they can share the same 20A circuit as long as the circuit only powered bathroom receptacles. Lighting must be on a separate circuit; 15A is acceptable as long as load calculations do not contradict. i.e., if you have six bathrooms with exhaust fans with heating elements, you would probably want to break that up)

If each bathroom has its own 20A circuit, lighting can be included on the circuit with the receptacle. Under no circumstances can the 20A bathroom circuit supply anything outside of the bathroom.  Here's a good article. This Mike Holt guy has a lot of informative articles that I refer to when I have questions.  (http://ecmweb.com/qampa/code-qa-120) In addition, for receptacle placement, the receptacle must be installed somewhere along the sink's countertop. In my bathroom, the sink countertop is against the corner of the bathroom by the door. The GFCI is in a 2-gang box with a light switch for the vanity and is installed on the same wall as the door. There is another 2-gang box next to the door, the switch closer to the door is for the light and the switch further from the door is for the fan. When wiring multiple switches like that, the switch closest to the door should be for the light. When all the switches control lights, the switch closest to the door should control the light or lights closest to the door. I don't know if there's a specific code that requires this, but it's been a common thing with any place I've ever been. My house, all the school classrooms I've been to, other people's houses, etc.

Once that single outlet by the sink has been installed, additional receptacles can be installed (near the toilet for instance, like if you want to plug in your phone while you're taking the browns to the superbowl) though it's not common. It opens up another can of worms too, since there are regulations as to where those receptacles can be places in relation to the bathtub (basically they want the outlets further from the bathtub than the length of the cord on a hairdryer lol).

If you plan to install two sinks in the bathroom (I think it's a waste of space but some people like two sinks in their bathrooms) install the required receptacle between the sinks, as the outlet must be within 3 ft of any basin in the bathroom ("basin" being sink).

For bathroom lighting, if you use track lighting or pendant (chain, downrod, cord, etc.) lighting, those lights cannot be in the "shower zone", which covers a 3ft radius around all sides of the tub or shower. Recessed or surface mount lighting CAN be installed within the shower zone. Lights installed on the ceiling within the "shower zone" must be marked for damp locations and lights subject to spray from water must be suitable for wet locations. I personally like having a light over the shower so I'd install a recessed can over the shower with a shower trim on it, which has a lens of some sort (drop dish opal or Fresnel for example).

I think that's pretty much it on electrical code for the bathroom. So basically to sum it all up short-n-sweet, you need a 20A circuit exclusively for the bathroom. You need one 20A GFCI mounted within 3ft of the sink. Except for recessed and surface mount fixtures, no part of fixtures can be installed within 3ft of the outer perimeter of the shower/tub. NEC also goes far enough to say the edge of ceiling fan blades cannot be within three feet of the shower zone either, but I've never seen a bathroom with a ceiling fan lol. When recessed or surface fixtures are installed within the "shower zone" they must be rated for damp locations.

If you want, I can email you pictures of my bathroom and my parents bathroom. The set-up is essentially the same in both as far as the electrical is concerned.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on August 30, 2016, 10:42:01 PM
^^It should also be noted that codes do vary from state to state...and then the counties within each state...and then once more for cities within a county...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 31, 2016, 01:52:31 AM
Oh Mike, guess what, for two years I lived in a house that had a PARTICLEBOARD, yes PARTICLEBOARD (NOT OSB/"chipboard", PARTICLE BOARD, that crap they make cabinets out of,) floor.  No joke.  There had been multiple plumbing "bummers" (leaking toilet wax seal, leaking shower, frozen pipes that had burst (vacation home) in the last 20-odd years.  The entire house, every room, had (well, has, it's still there and I've been in that house as recently as June though I haven't lived there since 2010) varnished particleboard floors.  There had also been an incident of the Plexiglas skylight in said bathroom (picture really '70s-'80s cabin-in-the-woods-back-to-the-earth-hippie-movement style house, with the wood and skylights) bursting from a heavy snow load.  (The roof had been replaced and the old skylight temporarily reinstalled while waiting for a new one).  Did I mention I shoveled about 18 inches of snow out of that bathroom through the window after that?  Thankfully that bathroom had no Sheetrock LOL.  Anyway the particleboard is definitely more swollen than it should be between frozen/burst pipes and the toilet and clothes washer overflowing over the years. 

I like ceramic tile, but this would be a low-budget job done by two broke college students who have other things to spend their money on (i.e. tuition) than fancy tile, otherwise I would as a selling point.  Realistically some nice clear plywood would be fine.  My house I do own has 100% plywood floors, no joke, most of them never even painted except the bathroom and kitchen and entryway, and the bathroom and kitchen have never had their crappy CDX plywood floors delaminate, although in the kitchen they're so worn it's almost delaminated down to the next layer in places from decades of chairs scraping and feet shuffling LOL.  If anything I'd go to Home Depot and get cheap linoleum LOL. I wonder what legit building codes actually say about using OSB as a substitute for drywall?  I've seen it done many times, I've even done it, though the one room it's in is thankfully the only instance of that stuff in my house, everything is plywood.  Best stuff is the 1-1/8" tongue-and-groove subfloor plywood, I love that stuff and have worked with it in the past helping frame up a neighbor's house. 

I could honestly also just live with a stand-up shower too.  One toilet, one sink, etc.  It's typical in rural homes where bathrooms are often additions/afterthoughts to have stuff like the water heater and washer and dryer in there too.  Not sure what code says about water heaters in there with no enclosure but we'll see.  Anything will be an improvement over no plumbing at all LOL. 

As for the Shower Zone, does a 4' wraparound right by the shower stall count since it's technically "enclosed" from the occasional splash? In a small bathroom I could always use a vapor tight fixture, even one of those marine-grade incandescent units would probably be just fine. 

I find the light-switch thing you mention to be just a "duh" common sense thing.  However, my honorary grandfather's old house had a situation where the second story was added (actually my dad helped frame it up, 20 or 30 years ago!). The downstairs portion was already built at about five times as it was from the 1920s onward, and their was a solid, load-bearing wall that had once been an exterior wall (well is, I'm sure it's still there, it's not going anywhere unless the new people tear the house down but they've actually remodeled it to be quite nice).  So the only place for the wiring to come up was behind the door to this one bedroom, hence where the light switch went, which was rather annoying and counterintuitive.

Same house had/has the kitchen/dining area lights controlled by a switch in the entryway/laundry room (great idea, put the water heater and washer and dryer in the entryway!) so the light bulb in the hanging fake-stained-glass light over the table was just turned off by loosening it for 20-some years, no joke!  Finally that socket shorted out so yours truly helped install a 3-way lamp socket about 7 years ago, then a few years later "the" switch was actually discovered! 

Xmaslightguy, ever been here? Just curious.


Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 31, 2016, 02:04:50 PM
Particleboard eh? I'd never use that for a subfloor in any part of the house lol. That stuff is good for small stuff but IMO it has no place in rough framing lol.

Question, how are you going to build a bathroom with no water supply anyway? lol

I agree, ceramic tile is overkill for a college house that you'll only be in for a few years. I'd use a laminate floor (you know, those peel-n-stick floors?) as it would provide some additional moisture protection and it would protect your feet from splinters and be more comfortable to walk on. Plus it's not all that expensive. Linoleum tiles work too. They'd be great for the kitchen since if you spill something on them or what not, it's an easy clean-up if the floor is waxed. Same for the bathroom.

I'm not aware of any codes requiring sheetrock to be used (except for fire rating requirements). Most people just prefer drywall since it looks better. For the bathroom I'd use drywall because the smoother surface will retard mold buildup. Plywood or OSB walls might get a little moldy after awhile if you like hot showers. Even with the exhaust fan, my walls in the bathroom are wet to the touch after I take a scorching shower in the winter lol. In the summer I take "luke warm" showers and the last couple minutes I turn the water cold to cool off lol. Also, drywall has better sound dampening properties, which could be helpful.

As for the hot water heater inside the bathroom, I don't know about code, but while you're framing out the walls for the bathroom, why not frame out a laundry room that shares a common wall with the bathroom? The hot water heater, washer, and dryer could be in the next room over. Still right nearby but hidden from sight and would look so much better. You could also use those on-demand hot water heaters (tankless units) but they're waaay expensive.

A wraparound is not UL listed for damp locations. So if you use a wrap in the bathroom, no part of it can be within 3ft of the shower/tub. A vaportight fluorescent (or incandescent) would be fine provided the proper connectors are used and the wiring is run in the ceiling (no cord powered lights in the shower zone; Code only allows corded lights to be installed directly under the outlet they're plugged into, and you cannot have an outlet in the shower zone, so the fixture would have to be surface mounted with either above-ceiling wiring or wiring in conduit (but if you're building the bathroom there's no sense in using conduit lol.

Now that you mention it, an incandescent vaportight would look cool mounted right over the shower. Those are listed for wet locations, so they'd be fine as long as it's installed right. And the wrap could be used for the "main light" for the bathroom. And maybe a 2ft or 3ft fluorescent as a vanity or something. I personally like a very bright vanity light so I'd probably install something like a three- or four-bulb incandescent fixture, using 75W= bulbs. Also about the switches, if you install a single gang box with a duple switch (light and fan) I think the light should be the top switch and fan the bottom. Again, don't think there's an actual code regarding it, but it's just common practice. I'm sure the duplex switches often get mixed up anyway but I know I'd wire the lights to the top switch lol. But if you're starting from scratch, I don't see the need for a single gang box with the duplex switches. I'd just use the 2-gang box with toggles. The duplex switches cost so much more than the standard switches that it's probably the same price for the 2-gang box and toggles as it is for the single gang box with duplex switch lol.

LOL at the hidden switch. We had a hidden outlet in the utility room for about 10 years before we discovered it (they had put the Typar on the wall to cover the exposed insulation per code requirement and they never notched out a square for the outlet, so the outlet was simply covered by the plastic sheeting for 10 years until I found it lol. It's a GFCI receptacle. Never had a hidden switch in our house though lol. We do have a switch that doesn't do anything though. It's for a fan that was supposed to be over the kitchen island. We decided to install the ceiling fan over the dining room table instead of over the island so the second switch does nothing and the ceiling fan over the dining room table has only one switch that controls the fan and lights. We normally keep the fan off, so to use the fan and lights or fan only, we just play around with the pullchains on the fan. Our bedrooms all have ceiling fans and there are separate switches for the lights and fan so there's no "pullchain play" necessary lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on August 31, 2016, 06:22:20 PM
@GEsoftwhite100watts:
Particle Board for subfloor :8 what was someone thinking?
I've seen Plywood and OSB, but never  (I wonder if Particle board would even meet code? )

Also never seen  OSB used in place of drywall (another thing  that I wonder it it'd  meet code? ... either way it'd look like crap :lol: )

The Bathroom & diningroom are the 2 rooms where I would always use incandescent lights (though if it was a large enough bathroom it might be cool to have a separate (daylight) florescent above the bathtub/shower...ideally something like a vaportight troffer 1'x4' )

---
And nope never been there..the closest I've come would be Victoria, BC, Canada.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on August 31, 2016, 06:30:04 PM
Something odd happened with that "Code-Illegal" 240V Outlet Box to Get 240V to the Deck image on LG...
LG had sent one of those automated emails saying a new comment had been posted...when I went to read it there were not only no new comments,  but the comment section is just blank now. :8)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 01, 2016, 08:08:40 AM
Agreed, I'd want incandescent in the dining room and bathroom. I wouldn't mind fluorescent cove lighting in the kitchen and living room though, and maybe even the bedrooms above the windows or something. All 3500K or warm white though (except the kitchen, which would probably be 4100K or 5000K. Maybe an even mix of 4100K and daylight for an interesting look.


As for my picture, I was getting sick of all the negative comments spamming up the page so I hit the reset button that deletes all the comments. I don't believe in censorship but the page was getting to be a mile long and it was all the same crap over and over. If the comments start back up I'll just delete the photos. I appreciate people's concerns and whatnot but it was getting pretty repetitive and over-dramatized IMO.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on September 01, 2016, 02:20:01 PM
Fluorescent cove lighting in the living room sounds neat. I've been to a house that was built in the 70s and had that over the backyard doors and windows. I think the fixtures weren't used much as I remember noticing Westy blackenders in them. My house has a spot for them over the backyard window but the fixtures were never installed. Would be nice to run wire there and put up some strips.

Yeah I find it's a certain few members on LG that always like to blab the first thing on their mind and shove whatever misguided opinions they have. And plus I've seen much more dangerous stuff posted on LG before.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 01, 2016, 09:13:22 PM
Yeah something  like this is what I want.  (https://www.oracdecorusa.com/images/c351.jpg) I'd use regular strip lights. Probably just single lamp strips lights, or double if I happen to find an abundant supply of them.

Yeah when that Universal Dave guy lit up a 175w MV lamp on his bed no one freaked out. I told him the lamp get very hot and will light his comforter on fire but he didn't seem to care all that much. But I run 240V into a 120V plug and everyone looses their shit lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on September 01, 2016, 10:08:35 PM
I've actually thought about doing something like that (cove lighting) thing Mike, but my plan would be to use 2 different 'colors' - 3000k and 6500k ... each on its own dimmable switch - probably going T8.
Only thing is it'd be fairly expensive (them dimmable ballasts ain't cheap) and I'd have to build my own fixtures.
(plus I still have yet to see how you actually wire up a 0-10v electronic dimmable ballast (by that I mean for code/where you get whatever romex-ish type wire/etc))

The thought also crossed my mind of how freekin awesome it'd be to do the same thing but use T5's in Red/Green/Blue, then you could really pick the color of the room 8) . That ofcourse would deff have a big cost-factor and would be complex to get all wired up...


--------
LOL I know on that 240v plug thing ... it'd be one thing if you planned to keep it like that permanently, but I know that wasn't your intent.
 Personally I'd say get a 120-240v plug-in  transformer that can handle the load... That's what I did for running my UK 240v fluorescents (none of which are permanently installed). but still end up getting used multiple times/week
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on September 02, 2016, 01:51:30 AM
Interesting idea with the mixed colour temps and even colours would be interesting to see the result but I personally would go with LED (gasp) to simplify the install.

I believe with the 0-10v dimming system you have a pair of low voltage wires that connect to the dimming control from the ballast. The other common dimming ballast is powerline dimming where three line voltage wires are fed to the ballast (hot, dimmed hot, and neutral) from the dimmer. There's a 2 wire dimming system which has a combined hot and dimmed hot wire.

I guess the thing in my living room is more like a wall wash light. It's over the backyard window. Unfortunately it wasn't wired up or is it easy to run wire there.  Would look nice with a couple of 4' single lamp strips installed in there though.
(http://i.imgur.com/FmMD0aP.jpg?1)

------

As for the whole 240v you can buy/make one of these (http://dcpsupplies.com/i-20181804-dcp-110-220-converter-box.html) you're supposed to plug the two 120v plugs on different circuits so you end up getting both hot legs. Personally I think this is more sketchy than tapping into the dryer outlet.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 02, 2016, 04:13:02 PM
Interesting! As for that link Joe, they say the device must be on a different circuit, but futhermore, dont the circuits have to be on separate sides of the panel too? Because one incoming hot wire goes to the left and one to the right, so if you connect the box to two different circuits on the same side, won't you end up with 0V like if you just used the same circuit?

Anyway, devices with more than one plug are illegal anyway, so it's not even any safer (or any more legal) than my set-up.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on September 02, 2016, 06:02:56 PM
@joe_347V:
That little ceiling space of yours is just begging to have a light put in it .LOL

There's one room I have that has a space above the window & a 'beam' infront of it, its just over 8-feet across & I always thought there should be a light up in there...so when remodeling the kitchen a couple years ago (where walls were open nearby anyway) I got in to that spot and ran wire/added a switch then installed s 8' slimline :) gave exactly the look I want even though its rarely used.

Interesting little device. Way overpriced though.


Quote from: Mike
Anyway, devices with more than one plug are illegal anyway,
If that were true....then why do computer servers commonly have 2 powercords (both of which most be be plugged into the same circuit though) .. oh and the reason for 2 cords is 2 powersupplys, if one fails the other keeps your server running. :)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on September 02, 2016, 08:33:23 PM
Interesting page I happened across today when looking for something else:
forgotten-ny.com/2006/02/mercury-falling
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 02, 2016, 09:00:34 PM
A lot of incorrect/mis-stated information in that page. King of street lights in NYC? Doesn't know his models all that well. :8)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on September 02, 2016, 09:03:15 PM
Still interesting to look through. & some good streetlight pic's

Maybe someone should sen them some corrections LOL
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 03, 2016, 05:43:49 PM
In response to several topics here:

-As far as crazy weather here, yeah, it's blistering hot right now but the subzero winters are going to a new experience for me.  Not only that, next year I might be living in Hays, Kansas, so I'll get to see the tornadoes and thunderstorms and massive hail. My roommate related a crazy story to me the other day about this microburst they had (he's from there, I might move down there for a year for the experience) right before he moved up here with winds in excess of 200MPH for about 15 minutes on end, no joke!

-Yeah, Lighting Gallery definitely has its own weird "attitudes" and politics.  It's funny how GOL is a split off from there and, frankly, some of the crazy people there.

-Yeah, I've done tons of crazy test setups, though I can't say I've tried lighting an HID lamp on top of textiles. 

I like the wall wash type lights but I've often thought how much energy would be saved if all the unnecessary accent lighting was eliminated!

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 04, 2016, 06:44:09 PM
Went browsing in this Sentry hardware/sporting goods/firearms store in Fairbanks, AK a couple days ago.  The whole place is lit with slimlines and HOs!  It's getting increasingly rare to see the familiar old 8 footers in places like this nowadays, at least around here.  Unfortunately, some of the installation is contaminated by LED retrofit tubes, which look horrible.  I actually knew of this store before I ever went in there in person from a photo Lighting Gallery member Icefoglights had posted of a really tacky LED test setup there a few years back.  It was interesting, I commented on the photo that "I was just in here today and most of the 8 footers are still there!"  Later, he PM'd me and gave me the history on that building, which was neat since I just moved here.  I had no idea it was ever a Pay 'n Save drug store! 

There's also this end display of cases upon cases upon cases of early '90s Sylvania 3-ways.  No joke!  That whole store is a blast from the past but I'm told the selection changes regularly.  Who knows where they get some of their inventory, but it's pretty darn neat!  Any lighting enthusiast would salivate over that place. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on September 04, 2016, 07:04:07 PM
Interesting idea with the mixed colour temps and even colours would be interesting to see the result but I personally would go with LED (gasp) to simplify the install.

I believe with the 0-10v dimming system you have a pair of low voltage wires that connect to the dimming control from the ballast. The other common dimming ballast is powerline dimming where three line voltage wires are fed to the ballast (hot, dimmed hot, and neutral) from the dimmer. There's a 2 wire dimming system which has a combined hot and dimmed hot wire.
Meant to reply to this in my previous reply
Yep 1-10v does have a pair of low voltage wires for the control...I've test-wired one up on a board :)
Its doing it for "real" (IE: an actual install/code/etc) that I don't know - if you just use 14-4 Romex or if you do the standard 14-2 stuff, then a separate low-volt cable.
I've decided if I do it to go with 1-10v because its the closest there is to a true standard for electronic dimmable ballasts. (I have some old T12 magnetic's that use the 3-wires type (hot, dimmed hot, and neutral)) Some electronic's use 3-wires too (hot, low-voltage, and neutral) but my understanding is they are proprietary.


I don't think LED would work as actual lighting (not bright enough...but yeah it might be easier to run LED strips as a decorative RGB thing, then just one standard color like 3000k (still dimmable ofcourse) of fluorescent) I'd have to see if they make anything that's a "standard" for LED I know allot of whats out there either runs on low voltage and/or needs its own proprietary controller.


----
Quote from: GEsoftwhite100watts
-As far as crazy weather here, yeah, it's blistering hot right now but the subzero winters are going to a new experience for me.  Not only that, next year I might be living in Hays, Kansas, so I'll get to see the tornadoes and thunderstorms and massive hail. My roommate related a crazy story to me the other day about this microburst they had (he's from there, I might move down there for a year for the experience) right before he moved up here with winds in excess of 200MPH for about 15 minutes on end, no joke!
How hot is 'blistering hot'?? (It'd have to be atleast 100 for me to consider calling it that)
Anything below zero is horrible weather. I hate it LOL

Thunderstorms/heavy rain is awesome weather 8). but hail sucks! (a tornado would really suck. I've never seen anymore than a small funnelcloud in person). And yeah those microbursts can be really strong & sudden, thats why they're so dangerous for planes.
Strongest wind I've ever felt was a winter windstorm with gusts just over 100.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 04, 2016, 08:19:38 PM
You need a separate low voltage cable.

I'm fine with the cold as long as there's no wind. if there's wind, I hate the cold. If there's no wind, after a certain temperature, it all feels the same lol. With heat, I don't like temperatures over 75. anything over 85 I'd call "oppressively hot" lol. I will not leave my house if it's over 100 degrees. fortunately that never happens here, but when we've gone on vacation to Florida I won't go outside. The heat is just sickening. The cold wakes up your mind. :)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 04, 2016, 08:31:09 PM
It can get in excess of 100 degrees here in Fairbanks in the summer.  For me above 80 is "too hot" but I'm used to triple-digit temps, being from central California, 105F was not an uncommon thing in the summer.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on September 04, 2016, 08:51:31 PM
I don't consider it to be 'hot' til its 90 or above (100 is fairly uncommon here, it happens maybe once or twice a summer)...and mid 80's is perfect sleeping temperature :)
---the thing to remember is in CO its semi-desert, so normally the humidity is less than 20%, so it doesn't feel as hot as humid places (and it cools off at night)

I went to an (outdoor) event back in June, and it felt quite hot that day (but not horridly so)...then that evening on the news I heard it got too 100 in the city where I was. LOL that explained to me why it felt like it did...

I hate wind period..
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 04, 2016, 08:57:57 PM
It was 94% humidity here in Fairbanks the morning after I moved here and I was thinking 'what did I get myself into? I thought it was dry up here!'
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 04, 2016, 10:04:27 PM
It's very muggy here, so even 75 degrees feels warm. 80 isn't so bad if it's dry but anything above that is too hot for me. Good sleeping temperature is upper 50s or low 60s for me (that being the outside temperature, as it's always warmer in the house at night, even with the windows open). The actual temperature I like my room to be when I sleep is between 67 and 70 degrees. I'm a furnace when I sleep so if it's any warmer in the room I'd keep waking up from being hot and sweaty. I always sleep with the ceiling fan on, even in the dead of winter. I need the air to be circulating and like the white noise when I'm sleeping. If the air is still I can't easily fall asleep.

If it's above 60 degrees I like a gentle breeze. Fortunately, in areas with low humidity, there is usually a breeze since there's a large difference in temperature in the shade versus in direct sunlight. When it's humid, it's pretty much the same temperature in the shade as in the sun.

What I like about low humidity is that it can be 80 during the day and still be comfortable at night (in the upper 50s or low 60s). There's plenty of summer nights here when the daytime temperature is 80 and the nighttime low is still in the low-to-mid 70s because of the humidity. :o

when it's muggy and it does get cool at night, it's a PITA when you have to drive first thing in the morning since a dew settles on EVERYTHING. The windows of the car are all wet and when you use the wipers and start driving, the windows fog back up because as you're moving through the damp air, the humidity is condensing on your cold windshield. A real pain. You gotta keep the wipers on and crank the defroster until you heat up your windshield so that the humidity stops condensing. East Coast People Problems lol.

In the winter we get a lot of black ice and frost heaves too. In the winter, the roads are often smoother when covered in compacted snow rather than being plowed down to bare pavement. They typically can't get right down to the pavement because the "inverse potholes" (as I call them; the improperly filled potholes that stick above the road surface) and raised manhole covers would f*ck up the plows. So in "trouble areas" they just get it down as close they can and just salt/sand the shit out of the road lol. The state uses salt and the cities tend to use sand for what it's worth...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 04, 2016, 10:28:06 PM
I'm a cool temp sleeper and have become a fan sleeper here in the dorms because (1) Fairbanks summers are quite warm and (2) the white noise. 

ECPP...is that a popular acronym there?

Here there's a lot of frost heaves, the freeways are all patched with tar LOL.  As for the "inverse potholes", yeah, I know those too.

Salt...does this mean lots of rusted-out car bodies?  Here it gets so cold the salt reaction won't work actually, so buying a used car up here generally means the body is actually in decent shape...but in places like Anchorage, Sitka, Juneau, or Prince of Wales, forget it!  So many rotted-out-almost-no-longer-roadworthy cars in places like that. 

I'm glad I'm notlearning to drive on the crazy half-finished freeways here I've showed you on street view, in a 1968 Deuce and a Half, (think really loud, rough riding, odd 5-speed shift pattern, stiff clutch, no A/C and minimal heat, etc. dealing with the snow and ice and crazy subzero or triple-digit temps.  But at one point it looked like I'd be living like a mile down a dirt road, so having that for a vehicle would have been helpful LOL.  I'd still gladly daily drive one any day.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on September 04, 2016, 10:57:06 PM
The past summer was quite muggy here in Toronto. Personally, I can stand cold much better than heat. Dry heat is somewhat bearable for me but I hate hot and muggy weather.  The humidity in Toronto makes the heat a lot harder to bear compared to MI where it feels a lot less muggy. Annoyingly this summer is the summer when half of the AC units on the subway trains decided to quite and blow in hot air lol. Felt like it was 100 on one of those trains.

Yeah in winter we also get a lot of ice and frost heaves too. The salty runoff also gets into the roads and every spring there's a ton of potholes around. Over here we mainly use salt on the roads but I've seen some other stuff like sand, brine and beet juice :o being sprayed on the roads. A lot of older overpasses have rusty rebar from all the salt too. Every summer the MTO has to rehabilitate at least dozen overpasses in the city. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 04, 2016, 11:26:30 PM
Wow, I had no idea beet juice could be used for that!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on September 04, 2016, 11:30:06 PM
Yeah I was a bit surprised when I heard the city was using it a while back. Here's (http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/toronto-using-beet-juice-to-melt-ice-on-city-streets-1.1627195) some more details.

On a completely unrelated note, I found a company that still makes those huge 4x4 troffers (http://www.lalighting.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/k_9_ghl330340-fl.pdf) you sometimes see in older department stores. Seems like these newer ones don't have the full width door like the vintage ones though.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 04, 2016, 11:33:34 PM
Ha!  I wish 4 lamp slimline strips were still made, but as far as I know they're not LOL.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 05, 2016, 10:38:58 AM
ECPP? Never heard of it. Gave it a search online and seems like it's not a commonly-known acronym. As for body rot, it happens. I don't find it to be a severe thing. Cars around here are simply better equipped to handle it. Most pick-up trucks, SUVs, and crossovers are all-wheel drive. Go down to the south and you'll be hard pressed to even find a pick-up with 4-wheel drive. They don't need it since it rarely snows down there. I'd guess that in higher salt areas they'd better seal the underside of the car? My dad's F-150 had rotted very badly to the point where one of the springs holding the bed onto the cab tore through the rotted bed and the bed and cab were no longer aligned lol. He got a pre-owned 2011 Chevy Silverado a few years ago and that truck is doing much better lol. My mom's Chevy Impala LTZ (either 2005 or 2006) is doing fine rot-wise, but it's inside the garage most nights. My car had some minor corrosion underneath but my grandpa had fixed the undercarriage rot before he sold it to me. There's still some rust under there but no severe rot that I can see. Body rot is usually what ends up killing vehicles here though, of the transmission or something else big doesn't get it first. Some cars hold up better than others.

BTW, unless Lithonia's spec sheets are out of date,  they've still got 4-lamp strips,  (http://www.acuitybrandslighting.com/library/ll/documents/specsheets/un.pdf)  turrets,  (http://www.acuitybrandslighting.com/library/ll/documents/specsheets/af.pdf) and  industrials.  (http://www.acuitybrandslighting.com/library/ll/documents/specsheets/ej.pdf) ;D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 05, 2016, 02:16:54 PM
It's funny how those little regional terms  come up.  Until less than a year ago, I had no idea that my hometown of Atascadero, CA was referred to as "A-town".  Now I see it referenced like that all the time in the "I grew up in Atascadero" Facebook group, which I'm a member of. 

I've seen pickups in the Prince of Wales area with the outer skin totally rotted off doors, no joke, and still driving around like that.  Everybody there has lifted trucks too, since until fairly recently most of the 3000-ish mine road system on North America's 3rd largest island wasn't paved. 

Here in Fairbanks, you see tons of really dirty cars and/or cars with major cracks or chips in their windshields, since once you get off the main roads in many of the suburbs everything is dirt/gravel.  I tell people Fairbanks is either freeways or dirt roads LOL. Well of course downtown is paved, all the university campus streets are paved, etc. but other than that it's freeway or dirt road, or the freeways finally narrow down into 2-lane state highway, and nobody's driveways ever seem to be paved once you're out of the city proper.  For example, my roommate and I looked at this house:  https://www.google.com/maps/@64.8795612,-146.9526285,3a,75y,8.28h,73.02t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBwvPb8HFttgNyZwl7ARJPA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Here's another road not far from there it looked like I might be living on at one point:

Here's another one it looked like I might be living on.  That one was totally not-maintained-except-by-homeowners.  And I would have been living in the second-to-last place on that road too, actually the neighbor's driveway crossed the property I was looking at buying. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on September 07, 2016, 07:40:32 PM
Quote from: GEsoftwhite100watts
It was 94% humidity
Yuck. that's horrid.
How about if it got down to 4%?


-----------
Around here in the winter when it snows they will either do sand/salt on the roads or Magnesium Chloride (depends on where and how cold its gonna get)


-----------
Today at work, there was a partial power-outage...
One phase went out completely,
One was on at half-brightness
And the other was fully on
:o
Lets say that some stuff didn't like that at all.

Weird, but I have seen it happen one other time years ago.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 07, 2016, 09:38:12 PM
4% humidity? Is that even a thing? lol That sounds like it would make your skin dry, crack, and just start flaking off you lol. The humidity is 95% here right now because of Hurricane Hermie or whatever the hell they named it (it was actually downgraded to a tropical depression some something like that, but they're all "hurricanes" to me lol). "Dry" for Rhode Island is a humidity between 45 and 50%. In the summer, the typical humidity percentage is in the 60s range.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on September 08, 2016, 12:09:06 AM
Yep it is...but I think that's something that's regulated to just true deserts LOL

The humidity can get down to the upper single-digit values here (and teen-percents aren't uncommon)
In the summer if you combine those really low humidity values with a hot & windy day... then its considered a 'Red Flag' day for forest-fire danger.

I guess I've only considered hurricanes as 'hurricanes' when the TV calls them that.. once they've been downgraded its then a tropical storm/depression/whatever LOL
I was far too young to remember anything from the 1 or 2 times I went through one....but I know my parents said the yard/streets/etc was all covered with water. (we moved to CO when I was really young. I remember nothing of living anywhere else.)

I've always thought the fact they name storms to be a bit dumb LOL they should just number them...

There have been times where a the remains of a hurricane has come through Texas and right up along the mountains, ofcourse by the time they make it way up here, its not even a 'tropical' anything (or a named anything), its just 'rain'
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 09, 2016, 01:00:12 AM
The "tropical depression" thing always makes me laugh.  Sure, I understand it's an area of low pressure or whatever, but shouldn't it be "tropical uprising" or something like that?  Deep thoughts, I know...

Hey Mike, you may find this mildly amusing.  Remember that half-finished freeway here, the Richardson Highway?  I was just reading that it used to have a lot more accidents before some of the current interchanges were added, there used to be a lot more at-grade intersections. 

I'm also looking at a house which practically has the Richardson right next to it, but I don't care.  Tiny little pan abode fake log cabin with a bathroom added; many homes here literally have no toilets if you can actually believe that!  It's just a Fairbanks area thing though.  Mainly because it gets so cold it's hard to have city water, it'll just freeze in the winter.  This place has a holding tank, which is also really common; you have to truck your water.  I could live with that though honestly.

OSB floors, sagging roof, place looks ramshackle but for the ridiculously cheap asking price I may go for it. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 09, 2016, 09:14:43 AM
Yeah  tropical depression sounds like someone living in Hawaii that's depressed lol. "Oh I'm in a tropical depression right now" lol.

Ah so originally it was just a regular road and they made interchanges to make the intersections safer. I can see how crossing level intersections can be hazardous, especially when you're crossing the road and people are coming at you at 80 MPH lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 09, 2016, 11:58:00 AM
Yeah, I'm sure it was initially 2 lane, then made into 4 lane, but they had to have the weird "crossing" lanes since there was already homes and businesses on both sides, then they added interchanges and a frontage road in a few places (It's literally called FRONTAGE ROAD, no joke, how imaginative! 

The speed limit there is 55, but we all know people like doing about 80 anyway.  I heard a commercial/PSA on the radio today for some law firm or something like that who deals with traffic accident lawsuits, etc.  and as they put it, "Fairbanks is full of drivers who think red lights are just a suggestion".  I still think driving in my hometown of Atascadero, CA is worse though. 

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 16, 2016, 10:43:12 PM
Well I removed that T17 over my late-grandpa's desk! In order to run that new cable for the dedicated living room TV outlet I'd need to remove the fixture anyway (it was in the way) so I figured it would be the perfect time to remove it! It's very heavy so I removed it in sections. First the louver door. Then the reflector. Then the ballast. then the upper housing/channel. Removing the reflector was the hardest since the light is over a table, so I could stand under the light and reach both ends. So I had to have my brother hold up one end up with a crutch while I unhooked the other end lol.

Turns out the T17 was fed with BX cable with cloth-insulated solid aluminum wires, with an undersized bare aluminum ground. Looks like I'll be replacing that with the 14/2 romex I'll have leftover from the living room outlet project, which will likely take place between Christmas and New Years. I know they make little terminal blocks to convert from aluminum to copper wiring but I'd rather just get rid of it, especially because of the primitive undersized ground wire. I've heard if there's a ground fault, those smaller sized ground wires can overheat and burn up.

After the circuit for the living room TV is finished up I'll install that F32T8 shoplight I've had for this very purpose for like three years now lol. It's got a GE residential ballast and two Sylvania /835 F32T8s. I'm thinking the two F32T8s should be about as bright as the one F90T17 was. And since I'm replacing the BX with romex I will probably replace the SNAP switch with a regular one to make it easier for my grandma to flip on and because I want the snap switch. ;D

I do have some metal  flex conduit laying around somewhere. If I have enough I might use that since I'd prefer to keep the armored cable if possible. I'll give kudos to my grandpa for using armored cable and EMT when he installed the T17 and two outlets by his desk.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on September 16, 2016, 11:36:18 PM
@Mike:
Awesome light!
And..LOL I'd rip out all that crappy old wire / replace it with something new/safe too :)

Quote from: GEsoftwhite100watts
OSB floors, sagging roof, place looks ramshackle but for the ridiculously cheap asking price I may go for it. 
How much is 'ridiculously cheap'?? ;)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 16, 2016, 11:58:19 PM
Great that you got the T17 down, Mike!

"Cheap" is 39,900.  No joke.  Thirty-nine thousand nine hundred.  I'm not kidding. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 17, 2016, 09:05:47 AM
Wow $40K is pretty good for a house. Hopefully there are no glaring issues, such as mice or rotting structural members. Often when homes are that cheap there's something really wrong with the house lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 17, 2016, 01:50:01 PM
When my dad bought my house I already own, which he still lives at since I've moved, he paid 80K.  It needed way more work LOL, but was a lot larger.  It has foundation issues and roof issues to this day. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on September 17, 2016, 02:28:13 PM
Quote from: GEsoftwhite100watts
  "Cheap" is 39,900. 
That is cheap! ... assuming its somewhere close to a city.
LOL around here you couldn't touch an   empty lot for that (unless you went way out away from everything)
Thats the type of thing where you: buy... demo... build something bigger/better :)

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 17, 2016, 06:38:36 PM
It is cheap! My dad and a friend found a relatively crappy but livable/had potential  house in another city for 35K about 15 years ago, bought it, he moved in, lived there for about 5 years and sold it for 150K I think.  It then became a meth lab and got demolished, and there's a massive McMansion in it's place now LOL.

It's decently close to a city.  Fairbanks, AK, my current city, is about 35,000 just by itself but has tons of little suburbs where you don't even know the difference and think of it as 'Fairbanks'.  It's just outside the city limits proper of Fairbanks according to what Google Streetview says while virtually driving around the area. 

It's .6 acres, decent size for being right behind some sort of business and surrounded by refineries, cement plants, and the like, and right next to a freeway.  VRRRRRRROOOOoommmmmm....BURriiiuuum....vrrooon...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 18, 2016, 01:19:22 AM
And 75K is an excellent deal for a 2 bed/1 bath house that needs absolutely nothing other than perhaps updating the original 1980 interior finishes (shag carpet, wood paneling, etc).  But I can live with that style just fine, though I do plan to re-sell in about 4 or 5 years, so I'd consider modernizing/updating things before selling to make it worth more.  Not only that, the property is flat and about 1-1/2 acres!  Everything else I've ever lived in, including my other house I already own that my dad still lives in and I spent my teenage years in, is on a small lot and/or built into the side of a hill! The house I grew up in had a 37% grade driveway, no joke!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 18, 2016, 06:34:41 PM
@ xmas: same. I don't think you can buy swamp land here for that price lol. Land is very expensive in New England. The taxes don't help much either.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 18, 2016, 07:18:43 PM
Ha!  Like I said, the place I'm looking at now is 75K but other than being a little dated on the inside (built in 1980 and never updated) needs absolutely nothing.  2 bed, 1 bath, 1 car garage, AND a flushing toilet, something many homes here lack, believe it or not! 

Not much in the way of interesting lighting, but that could always be changed:)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on September 18, 2016, 11:07:34 PM
Man, houses are cheap in your area. Over here you'll need to spend something like 200k for a bachelor condo. Houses here start at around 600k with most of the better ones are over a million.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 18, 2016, 11:22:07 PM
600K for a basic 2-bed, 1-bath ranch style house? Wow, that's crazy!  But yeah, North Pole, AK, a suburb of Fairbanks, which is where both those places I'm currently looking at are, is known for some of the cheapest real estate.  I could see it being worth more in a few years.  Once it's in my name (trust would be buying it right now) I could see taking out a home improvement loan, updating all the interior finishes (AKA 'flipping' it, but while still living there) and then re-selling it for greater value, I don't intend to live in Alaska forever, especially not Fairbanks area. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on September 19, 2016, 11:34:39 PM
Similar, here's (http://www.remax.ca/on/toronto-real-estate/na-36-porter-cres-na-crea_id17387001-lst/) the sorta of house you can expect to buy here for 550-600K. It's your typical 1950s-1960s single story house with 3 bedrooms and 1 bath. I believe housing in the GTA is amongst the most expensive in the country.

Yeah, sounds like you can buy a house for the 4 years you're at school, do some reno work on the side and then flip it once you graduate for a profit. Seems better than renting if you can make a profit.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 20, 2016, 01:30:12 AM
Yeah, way better than rent!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on September 20, 2016, 09:03:17 PM
75k is cheap for a house too :)

Here you won't find anything (single-houses -- not including condos/etc) under 200k if its anywhere near the city (even less than 300k is getting less & less)

And if its _in_ Denver those crappy old little ranches can easily go for 500k (personally I wouldn't give more than a tenth of that for one of those things (not that I would want to live in the city anyway)) Hell people will spend 400+k for some old piece of crap in the city then demo it & build a 'real' house (so basically just for the lot).

--
In my neighborhood I frequently see the majority of houses sold above their asking price...I'm sure some of you guys see that happening too? (makes me wonder if another housing-price bubble is building up?)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 20, 2016, 10:02:14 PM
I haven't really seen it but with the 75K place I might be willing to pay no more than 80, as far as over asking is concerned. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 20, 2016, 10:05:05 PM
By the way, putting out feelers on LG and on the lighting related Facebook groups as well...looking for a F40 preheat stoplight.  Preferably something other than the massive "bathtub" type reflector units, but will take anything.  Anybody know of one for sale for less than, say, $150, or got one you'd be willing to part with, AND be willing to ship to Alaska? (I know, I'll get laughed at for that last part).

Ideally still preheat but if it's been converted to RS that's fine, it just needs to be authentic and have starter holes.  Some rust/etc is fine, it's a 60-ish year old fixture LOL. 

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 21, 2016, 12:57:59 PM
Finally!  I found a nice old tuner/amplifier on Craigslist in my local area for 75 bucks.  A Sanyo JCX-2400X.  Seller has gone through the potentiometers and replaced all the bulbs according to the ad.  I did shoot them an email asking if speakers were also available and yes they are.  They also have a phono and a CD player but I don't have space for them, currently living in the university dorms. 

(http://file:///Users/andrewlange/Desktop/Screen%20Shot%202016-09-21%20at%209.54.57%20AM.png)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 21, 2016, 01:46:38 PM
After doing some Googling, sounds like it might be comparatively rare, too!  Even more exciting.  I'll probably use pretty small speakers, since I'm limited on space, and being in the dorms it will probably never be turned up all that loudly anyway.  But with smaller speakers, it will at least be functional!

Curious to see how the selectivity on the tuner is too.  Where I live right now the FM dial is a bit garbled, being not far from the transmitters for most of the FM stations in the Tanana Valley.  Lots of "garbage" on the dial in between stations when tuning cheap radios here.  A '70s GE clock radio I have sitting in storage still hopefully, had excellent selectivity.  In a place with over 50 FM signals, it was very selective, but still picked up weak, distant stations extremely well.  Here, it's only about 20 FM signals, still "a lot of radio stations" by my standards but enough to make cheap radios suffer when trying to tune accurately. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on September 21, 2016, 07:06:19 PM
Today at work, there was a partial power-outage...
One phase went out completely,
One was on at half-brightness
And the other was fully on
:o
Lets say that some stuff didn't like that at all.

Weird, but I have seen it happen one other time years ago.

This happened again yesterday.. but it was a different phase went out completely,
though the half-on one was the same as last time (out of curiosity I checked the voltage & it said 65v (LOL who else would keep a spare multimeter at work?))


Quote from: GEsoftwhite100watts
I found a nice old tuner/amplifier on Craigslist in my local area for 75 bucks.

$75 for a old and used receiver :o I'd be unlikely to take that unit even if it was free LOL.
If I was gonna pay that much it'd have to be something brand-new and have surround-sound.
You should easily be able to pick up a nice fairly modern stereo(or even surround, but I'm assuming with a dorm you don't have much room for the extra speakers) receiver at a garage-sale or goodwill store for less than $20.


Quote from: GEsoftwhite100watts

looking for a F40 preheat stoplight
(...)
Anybody know of one for sale for less than, say, $150,
:o I'll assume that decimal point was misplaced, meaning less than $15.00   LOL
but seriously why not get a preheat ballast off eBay and convert a standard RS or electronic shoplight.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 21, 2016, 07:27:48 PM
Ha!  Never heard of anyone keeping a spare multimeter at their place of employment until now!

I've specifically been looking for a vintage tuner/amplifier for years now, something with analog tuning, etc.  70s era stuff.  Even if it needs work, it could be a display piece, though I do intend to restore any others I find that are non-functional to working condition.

Especially considering this one is apparently somewhat rare from Googling the model.  (of course, like Lighting Gallery and Gallery of Lights, there's some audio forums). 

Seller got back to me and has several sets of speakers, they'll look through what they have and give me a price.  If they're absolutely massive I'll instead just go buy something small and new, probably at either the electronics department at the nearby Fred Meyer, or go find the record store here in town that advertises on Craigslist as well.  I need to look up if we have a Radio Shack in town or maybe a Best Buy. 

I'll have to get a YouTube video of it working, right?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on September 21, 2016, 07:46:27 PM
The multimeter was something I got free (new - at Harbor Freight) its as expected a very cheap unit. I mainly have it there for testing batteries.

I guess to me: any old/analog/etc stereo equipment has no real value (doesn't matter what it is), like I said I wouldn't even take it if it was free these days (which also has to do with lack of space)
I only go for modern digital stuff... and even there it'd have to bee both something really good and a hell of a deal for me to even consider buying it
Also with me for speakers... "the bigger the woofer the better" (because more 'boom' - which ofcourse is another reason for wanting modern equipment - the old stuff doesn't have the power it takes for that)

Too bad you don't live in CO, or I'd say just come look through my stack of old speakers & simply take whatever pair you want LOL

---
oh and you if you do buy it, then yep .. YouTube it!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 21, 2016, 07:54:40 PM
Oh, and as for the preheat stoplight, I'd be willing to spend a little more than you might otherwise spend, since it's one of the few lighting things I've really wanted for years now.  I might be willing to take a turret industrial with enough space for a magnetic ballast and make THAT preheat, but it still wouldn't be the same LOL.  I don't have access to tools, etc. and so drilling starter holes wouldn't really be possible.  We'll see what turns up.  I'd prefer something authentic/the real thing. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on September 21, 2016, 08:07:46 PM
I think a preheat shoplight would be cool too :) , & I do keep a lookout when I go to garage/estate sales or the ReStore... I'd be unwilling to spend more than $10 for one, unless it was a 4-lamp halfpiper, then I'd go as high as $20.
If I really wanted one I could just build it (or convert an existing fixture) since I do have access to some tools that'd work. (but ofcourse there's "time to do it" and "storage space" moth of which I really don't have enough of...)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 21, 2016, 08:11:57 PM
LOL yeah.  I did find a nice old 4 lamp 2' half pipe on eBay but it's not what I want and they ask 185 bucks for it, too much for something I don't want.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on September 21, 2016, 08:24:25 PM
Yep. I'd really want a 4-footer, not 2'.

I do have a few old 4' preheat single-lamp striplights that I got free off craigslist years ago :)  so I atleast kinda satisfied my want of a 4' preheater with those (right now they're just sitting on a shelf though)

I also did build that 2x5-foot switchstart(ie: UK preheat) striplight (which is kinda cool even if I have to run it on 240v).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 21, 2016, 09:42:20 PM
Unfortunately I don't have any spare/duplicate preheaters. If I did, I'd still dread the thought of shipping the 4ft thing lol.

If and a big IF I get that 4-lamp half-piper thing from my friend's garage you can have it for shipping. Some might think I'm crazy for saying this, but I've never particularly cared for halfpipe fixtures. Even with the glass ends I think they look ugly. Some look nice but most I could take it or leave it. Sure it's not a shoplight, but it would be more "collection-worthy" if you like halfpipe fixtures. Granted it will have two ballasts and glass endcaps so it would probably weight a shit-ton but you'd be getting it for just shipping. And if you want I'd repaint it for you since it's all rusty and include a grounded cord (sans plug) and can include new starters for the cost of the starters and paint in addition to shipping.

But I don't want to get your hopes up, since I'm not sure if I'll be getting that half-pipe and not sure what condition its in. Plus I don't know how I'd ship it. But I will keep you in mind. I may be getting that shoplight from the same room as the half-pipe but I missed out on getting that WWII era fixture from my aunt's and uncle's basement so I don't want to pass up this one. I dig those old shoplights way more than the halfpipes.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 21, 2016, 11:52:08 PM
I also prefer the shoplights but I'll take anything LOL.  What would the cost be to restore it to non-rusted-into-oblivion condition?

I'd definitely take you up on it if you can get it.  Wonder if it's heavier than a 4 lamp shop light? (glass end caps versus huge reflector)  Ideally I want a 2-lamp unit like the one you had burn up its ballast.  Wonder what ballasts are in the half pipe light?  I don't blame you for never wanting to give up any of the industrial shop light units!  I'm sure the half pipe should clean up nicely.  Wonder what lamps it has?  (Not that I'd really want them, I'll just go buy some modern daylight deluxe at Sentry or Home Depot or Lowes.  Not sure how well a shelving backed will support something so heavy but I'd take it anyway LOL.  Maybe I'll install it at that house I'm looking at, replacing an ugly cloud-puff wraparound in the kitchen. 

I need to ask a friend about a pair of vintage eight foot slimline strip light fixtures in their garage in Sitka, one of which is a Sunbeam Visionaire 4 lamp unit!  They have crappy 60 watt energy saver lamps and they're horribly dim in the unheated garage in the winter so maybe offer to replace with some cheap LED shop lights in exchange?  The other fixture is a 2 lamp unit with a full length channel cover too!  The 4 lamper had a lamp missing, a spent lamp, and in such a way that the two others didn't work right either, just dim half-brightness on the primary side lamp.  I can imagine some 75 watt daylight lamps though and installed in either my house I already own in the shop (I've already thought of where they could go) or if I get this one place I'm looking at.  Same for the four eight foot high output fixtures I'm eventually getting from another friend's garage.  Two of the four have vintage GE 110 watt lamps!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 22, 2016, 08:12:59 AM
Not sure. Depends how bad condition its in. If it just needs paint, it shouldn't cost more than $10 to restore it. The lamps do look old, though they'd never survive shipping. Probably weighs the same as a 4X F40 2X4 troffer.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 22, 2016, 01:39:42 PM
Could that be comparable to a 3X40 1X4 that's well built from the 70s with two ballasts?  I had one of mine set up as such for awhile, it was a comparatively heavy sucker!

Or a 2XF96 strip light?  I know how much those weigh, having carried five of them several city blocks!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on September 22, 2016, 04:40:20 PM
I have 3 F40 preheat shoplights but unfortunately none of my mine are duplicates. Those older F40 preheat units are heavy though. One of mine has one of those tulamp brick ballasts that's like the size of a modern HO ballast and a nice and thick porcelain enamel reflector.

Shipping a F40 preheater from here to where you are costs like $120 CAD.  

Personally I would prowl Craigslist or ask around if any of your neighbours have a "old fluorescent light". I also got lucky and found one of mine at a Restore.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 22, 2016, 06:50:50 PM
I've been prowling Craigslist for sure, that's how I found the Sanyo tuner I AM buying!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Model25FanForever on September 24, 2016, 09:35:13 AM
Well myself would never ever buy a Canadian tire multi-meter  :)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 25, 2016, 04:29:19 PM
Picking up that vintage Sanyo receiver tomorrow!  Pretty excited!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 26, 2016, 08:25:23 PM
It's a beaut!  Haven't gotten around to testing it YET though.  Planning on an evening excursion to Fred Meyer after Spanish to find some speaker wire though:)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on September 26, 2016, 11:31:38 PM
Well myself would never ever buy a Canadian tire multi-meter  :)
Are they cheap junky things or something like that?? LOL

The free ones from Harbor Freight are kinda crappy (& not very accurate when testing batteries).. but can't complain about the price :)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 27, 2016, 12:41:07 AM
Tuner up and functional now, photo on LG in the off topic board...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 28, 2016, 01:44:31 AM
Found another potential stupid project for my first vehicle, a 1968 Army surplus Deuce and a half. Problem is I currently lack a place to park the thing until I start driving, but if I end up with one of the two houses I'm looking at that shouldn't be an issue.  My Deuce-familiar roommate might go look at it with me just so I have someone experienced along with me, he daily drove his in high school, no joke!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 04, 2016, 11:58:46 PM
Bought a case of 30 Philips Alto F40/DX at Home Depot this afternoon.  I needed some lamps for a 3 lamp F40 preheat troffer I'm getting from a buddy on LG, and I also want to convert everything back home to /DX and figured an OEM case was one of the safest ways to ship lamps back. Come spring and the end of the academic year, I plan to also send a case of 75 watt slimlines ahead so when I get home I can get my slimlines operational. 

The fixture I'll be getting eventually is a 3-lamp Guth preheat troffer.  Original ballasts were reportedly GEs but they were all toast, so mine will probably have a NPF single lamp white/yellow label Universal and a Valmont Bonusline 2-lamp ballast.  Pretty dang excited.

Mike, keep me posted on the rusty, forlorn 4 lamp halfpipe fixture, I'll definitely gladly take it if you can save it.  If that other WWII preheat shop light has a  fiberboard reflector and you thus don't want it, I'd also gladly take it, of course covering shipping plus however much for the favor. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 05, 2016, 01:19:59 AM
Said preheat troffer will eventually go in my garage back home, over a workbench.  I'm considering taking the other 3 lamp Metalux/Gibson 1X4 troffer I have and putting it as its mate over the other end of the bench.  It's currently set up with a  3 lamp 34w ballast but I think I'll shunt that for two F40s (it should work well that way) and stick the half dead Therm O Matic back in.  It'll be lots of light over that bench then! 

If I get the 4 lamp halfpipe from you, Mike, it will probably at least initially replace a '90s era diffuser-less residential grade Lithonia wraparound, the style before the "basket wrap" style became common.  Four F40 lamps on full power preheat ballasts are going to be much brighter than two F34/CWs on a residential LPF ballast.  It's over a band saw, where the extra light will be helpful.

Eventually, though, that spot is the perfect place for a 4 lamp Sunbeam Visionaire slimline fixture a friend has in their garage I'd like to get.  Imagine that with four 75 watt lamps on a 7' ceiling! There's also a vintage 2 lamp F96T12 strip in their garage I want. 

The rest of the (actual) garage, not the space lofted above it, is ideally going to be lit with four vintage F96T12 high output turret lights from another friend's garage.  Of course I'll try to have 110 watt lamps in those. 

The other two (or three, if I get the other vintage 2 lamp mate to the 4 lamp fixture) slimline fixtures I have will probably go in the storage loft above the shop, installed that is. 

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 05, 2016, 02:42:42 PM
Ah cool! Are you getting it from Icefoglights? Or Nick shipping it? those Guth troffers look cool! and yes, if you're serious about paying the shipping for the four lamp half-pipe it's all yours. You can have it original (but cleaned out), repainted, repainted and rewired (if the wires are in bad shape), and I can include a cord (either with or without a wire-on male plug; choose the cord length) and I can include new starters from the hardware store if they're hard to find in your area, sealed in the original packaging. No lamps though since they'll break lol. I would unbolt the sockets and stick them inside the fixture channel (wrapped in bubble wrap so they don't smack against the fixture and break) and I'd heavily wrap the glass endcaps up.

I know the half-pipe is a well-loved fixture in the fluorescent community but I've never particularly liked 4-lamp fixtures. Too bulky lol. I'd rather use two 2-lamp fixtures. Plus I never cared much for the half-pipe design (I know, I know, it's sacrilege lol). So I'd much rather see it go to someone else. All I ask is that you pay shipping (and the cost of whatever you want me to put into it (paint, starters, plug for the cord, etc). I already have the cord itself, just no male plugs.

Wow a case of 30 lamps? Must've set you back a bit. When my grandpa bought that case of 30 GE F32T8/SPP41s it was like $55 or something. Those are nice lamps though (at least IMO).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 05, 2016, 02:56:03 PM
Nah, Nick is shipping it.  Although Icefoglights and I have been talking through PM, and may try to get together.

Any idea on a timeframe for that preheater?  My lighting budget may be shot for awhile if the Deuce project actually pans out.  LOL. 

The case of lamps only set me back $77.  Not bad IMHO. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 05, 2016, 09:58:22 PM
Ah that's cool! Yeah meet-ups are always fun. Brings a little sense of reality to GoL and LG when you actually get to meet these people you talk to everyday. ;D

No idea on the preheater TBH. I don't mind holding onto it for awhile if I do get it and you can't get it right away. I've been holding a M-400A2 all boxed up and ready to ship for like two or three years for Darren and that thing is in a box the size of a small fridge lol. Just as long as it's not like YEARS lol.

Yeah $77 isn't so bad. $2.57/lamp. Is that shipped? If so that's really good. I found a 30pk Philips F40/DX on Amazon for $77 with free shipping. the same thing bu CWS is $115 with free shipping. A case of Sylvania F34T12/CWX (30 lamps) from Lowe's is only $40. Too bad the lamps are 34W and CWX or I'd buy a case just because it's that cheap. My case of ten DSGN50 lamps cost the same amount and it's 20 fewer lamps lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 05, 2016, 10:45:22 PM
Not shipped, I bought them local at Home Depot.  But I'll eventually be mailing the case home.  If the F34CWX are that cheap at my local Lowes I might goand get some, since I have several fixtures which use 34w lamps only, 40s don't work well at all and are dim; (mail a case home). 

Yeah, it could be months/a year, but not YEARS.  LOL. 

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 05, 2016, 10:46:31 PM
Oh, and as far as a sense of reality, my roommate and I met through an online forum in a similar way; it turned out we were moving to the same city and going to the same university, and it went from there.  Mike, it'd be equivalent to you and I putting each other down as a roommate preference, if that makes sense.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on October 06, 2016, 07:54:54 PM
Quote from: GEsoftwhite100watts
The case of lamps only set me back $77.  Not bad IMHO. 
[Not bad when you look at it as a per-lamp cost, but adds up to allot when you see the full case price. LOL

A number of years ago I bought a case of 12 Philips F40 DX at Home Depot... don't remember, but it wasn't all that bad.
I also have a partial case of Philips F32 DX that I got cheap at either a garagesale or thrift store, and a partial case of Sylvania F32 865 that I got real cheap at Lowes...
..so I have plenty of Daylight's :)


Quote from: Mike
Ah that's cool! Yeah meet-ups are always fun. Brings a little sense of reality to GoL and LG when you actually get to meet these people
Never met anyone from any of the various fluorescent-light forums. (would be cool to do though)

Some of the Colorado members from various Christmas-light forums do a meetup ~ once a month. I've been to a number of those, so have met a number of them.

Have also met one member off another forum thats not light related in any way.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 06, 2016, 08:28:02 PM
Ah I didn't know if you bought them on Home Depot's website and had them shipped to your house. Is anyone living there right now? I know you were alone for awhile because your dad was away but is he back or is the house being watched by neighbors or something? (not that you'd really have any burglars on a quiet remote island though, would you? I guess you can't rule anything out but is Port Alexander one of those places where everyone knows everybody?)

Yeah the unit price ain't bad but when I see $77 I have second thoughts lol. Hopefully they last well and don't fail prematurely. I don't think the Philips T12s have problems with bad batches but some of the T8s do/did. Places that used them here would have them go starved ALL the time. The older ones with the shield logo were great though. Sure they were Altos but they still seemed to have a decent amount of mercury in them.

I have met up with seven (that I can think of, LOL) enthusiasts. Nick, when he was traveling through the area. And Joe up in Ontario when I was on vacation up there. The rest are all from Rhode Island or Massachusetts. Would love to meet up with more enthusiasts. Would be cool to have a GoL/LG meet-n-greet of some sorts but we're all pretty well scattered so traveling would be a bit of a pain (we're all across the globe!).

BTW, I'm posting a pic of one of the fresnel recessed cans from my college on LG. Check it out! I'm thinking about finding something to stand on, locking the bathroom door and bringing in a couple bulbs to relamp the two in a small bathroom on the ground floor. Just to see them working. ;D I'd like to use 150W clear incandescents since that's probably what's actually inside them (I can see a larger than A19 lamp inside one, looks like it might be A23 or something) but I think the incandescent lamp would burn my hand if I tried screwing it in with the power on (the switch is broken so the lights are stuck on, well light. The only light that works is the 2X F32T8 wall-mounted vanity fixture over the sinks. The two cans are out cold. Probably still connected though.)

I've seen some fresnel bathroom cans that actually do work, but they're using undersized lamps, probably 60W equivalent. They're pathetically dim. I'd use nothing smaller than a 100W= CFL. I'll check WalMart, Lowe's or Home Depot for some clearance-priced 100W or 150W= CFLs. I'd prefer daylight so that they really "pop out" compared to all the /WW CFLs and 4100K linear fluorescents and electronic PLs.

The most difficult thing here will be getting a stool or something to stand on and get it in the bathroom without being seen. The rest is easy. Lock the door, change the bulbs, toss the dead ones, and just stick the stool/chair/whatever in the corner of the bathroom and leave lol. Once it's in it can stay there lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 06, 2016, 10:38:17 PM
I bought them in person and had to deal with intoxicated people at bus stops and everything!

My dad is presently living there, but I don't think he'll spend but the next couple weeks there.  He's finishing a job in the area, then I think he's going fishing for the fall, then during the really ugly part of the winter maybe visiting me here, and spending time with his girlfriend in Michigan, then probably fishing for the spring and summer.  So I doubt he'll be there much longer, but who knows. 

Burglars aren't so much an issue, but hungry brown bears often break into vacant/unoccupied homes looking for food.  Believe me, they make quite a mess.  I've cleaned up a few houses that were pretty trashed by them.  The smell alone is nauseating. 

Best of luck!  You're such a "nice" guy, buying lamps to fix others' lights; that's not something you'd probably see me do LOL. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 09, 2016, 01:50:09 AM
Well, found another potential Craigslist $4500 project Deuce!  This one is in comparable shape but has a soft top, I mean tarp from what I can tell of the pictures.  I replied to the ad and we'll see what happens.  Insurance was my downfall with the last one, needing to have a full license and not a permit to get insurance, and I don't have a close by family member who would be on board; my dad lives 700 miles away from me now, or rather I live that far from him, and he thinks I've lost my mind as it is for wanting one.   But if I can work out some sort of deal with the seller, then who knows?  Then again we have parking, storage for a few months in the summer while off visiting relatives, and insurance, registration and MAINTENANCE! That said, it helps that I have a roommate who daily drove a Deuce in high school at one point on alternative fuel, and that I still live on campus, within walking distance from basic shopping options and with good city transit buses 6 days a week (no sunday service) so it would mainly only get driven to places the buses don't go, on weekends, etc. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 09, 2016, 02:03:10 PM
Insurance for a deuce? I guess liability insurance is very important since whatever you hit/hits you doesn't stand a chance lol.

If I buy bulbs I'll just get whatever I can find the cheapest. 60W= CFLs are pretty cheap but I want brighter than that. 150W incandescent is probably the cheapest. Lowe's does have some 100W= CFLs pretty cheap. It ain't 150W= but 100W= shouldn't be THAT dim. But then again, when you convert the lumens into units of F32T8s, the 150W incandescent would be equal to one F32T8 on a NBF ballast. So naturally a 32W CFL would be the ideal fit but who knows if it would even fit in the fixture. Surely CFLs that large are not common-as-dirt so they're not going to be super cheap. IDK... I'm not gonna blow more than five bucks on bulbs for these two fixtures. I might even try 200W lamps but I don't want to go over the fixture's maximum and risk being held responsible for the building burning down... There could be a reason other than laziness for the cans not being operational.

Best bet is to remove a dead lamp and see what it is and replace with an equivalent lamp. But I want to do everything in one shot since it's not going to be easy sneaking a stool into the bathroom (I could make one of my own but I wouldn't be able to stand on it lol [potty humor: stool]) so I don't want to get something to stand on just to check the bulb and then have to track it down again to do the actual relamp. I can see the lamp in one of the fixtures and it's clearly a larger inside-frost lamp. Looks like it might even be PS25 or something. Eh I'll figure something out lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 09, 2016, 02:10:35 PM
Probably.  But then again, I might survive a collision with a moose; it's not like a deer hit when you hit a moose, when you hit a moose in a little compact car, minivan, etc. the moose usually wins!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 10, 2016, 07:26:10 AM
Even when you hit a deer the odds are not always good. Someone on Interstate 295 hit a deer and went off the road and died. Granted he wasn't wearing his seatbelt, but when you hit anything at 75MPH the odds are slim that you'll walk away without a scratch lol. As for moose, I've never personally seen a moose on the highway (thank god) but NH is FULL of freeway signs that say something like BRAKE FOR MOOSE - IT CAN SAVE YOUR LIFE. Those things are the equivalent of a hitting a brick wall lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 10, 2016, 01:08:06 PM
Yeah, I can imagine! I've also discovered after showing the pictures to my roommate that this one is apparently an (albeit parts missing) pipeline truck, even rarer and more neat! 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 14, 2016, 08:21:44 PM
So... turns out there are 19 recessed cans with bulbs that do not work. I will relamp those two in the ground floor bathroom. beyond that I don't know... I might get a contractor pack of light bulbs from Lowe's ($20 for 16 72W halogen lamps) and that will over all but one can (remember, two will be covered by the CFLs). I'm thinking if I walk around with a case of lamps and a small step ladder no one will question me as long as a bigwig or a janitor doesn't see me.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 14, 2016, 09:21:18 PM
If anyone questions you say you're doing them a favor by fixing them.  I know if I were a manager of that place I'd appreciate your initiative! 

Went to the driver's ed place today.  They were closed (out doing road tests).  But the building is completely lit by mercury yard blasters on the outside, and the bowling alley in the same building (Where I went to get something to eat, and warm up, since it was chilly outside) screams 1960s.  Wood paneling, and all T12s!  8ft slimline recessed troffers, too!  I'll post pics. 

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 15, 2016, 07:27:21 AM
I saw the pics. TOTALLY awesome! Bowling alleys in general tend to have a retro look them.

Hmm yeah I guess I will get a case of 72W halogens from Lowes (100W=). Too bad they don't sell cases of 150W bulbs (well they do, online, in 48-pks, but I need 17...)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 15, 2016, 02:22:10 PM
Yeah.  I even PM'ed fellow LG member Icefoglights..."If you've never been in there, go to Arctic Bowl (name of that place)".  Pictures never do lighting justice, you have to see it in person. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 15, 2016, 02:25:52 PM
Another funny coincidence happened.  Ever run into interesting people on public transit?  I've had to ask bus drivers or other passengers next to me who are locals for directions/ where the closest stop to a particular destination is, and of course explain that I only moved here in August. 

Got to talking to the driver on the trip to the driving school/ slimline lit bowling alley.  Turns out they've been to both my former hometowns, and know some landmarks, like our unique city hall building in Atascadero.  Not only that, they also have the same military truck interest I do. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 15, 2016, 03:10:55 PM
Found out from fellow LG member Icefoglights that that vintage/retro slimline lit  bowling alley used to be part of the old airport! I had no idea!  It was the Pan-Am hanger!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 15, 2016, 08:06:23 PM
Interesting!

 I'm thinking about buying this to relamp the fresnel cans at school.  (http://www.lowes.com/pd/SYLVANIA-16-Pack-72-Watt-100W-Equivalent-A19-Medium-Base-E-26-Soft-White-Dimmable-for-Indoor-Halogen-Light-Bulbs/50449624) Am I nuts or what? lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 15, 2016, 08:26:27 PM
LEDs might be better by now.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 15, 2016, 10:30:09 PM
LEDs would be better, but not in my budget lol. I just want to get the fixtures lit again (preferably putting out usable light too). They're not my fixtures, so they can use 200W a piece for all I care. I wonder if they'd notice a jump in their electric bill. It's a big place, so probably not. If they relamped all the 1000W MH sports floods in the parking lot that freakin' don't work at night, they'd have a nice increase in their bill lol. Like 3/4 of the lights are out.

I'm thinking the only reason the fluorescent lights mostly all work is because the T8s were just installed in the past few years.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 15, 2016, 11:13:27 PM
It's quite possible that if it's a totally state funded institution the T8s could have been a grant/rebate type thing.  Interestingly it seems whatever my local electric utility is (believe it or not, I don't know what it is) never did a T8 rebate program, so, unlike PG&E territory where I grew up, T12s and MV are still rather common here.  Hence all the pictures I've posted of slimlines and HOs still in use in my area.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 16, 2016, 06:48:04 AM
One of my teachers told me that it was funded by a company. Basically, the school loaned $15 Million to this company, who replaced all the lighting (well, not all, apparently lol), retrofitted all the urinals and toilets to motion-sensor instead of manual flush, and may have made improvements to the HVAC. And the school will be paying them back over the course of X years. By the time the school pays them back it'll be time to upgrade all the lighting and HVAC again lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 16, 2016, 02:04:32 PM
Here they retrofitted everything to T8 and put everything on occupancy sensors in at least one of the major buildings. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 16, 2016, 02:12:27 PM
Yeah no occupancy sensors at CCRI, at least none that I've seen.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 16, 2016, 02:27:28 PM
Lucky you.  I personally abhor the occupancy sensors. 

Fellow Lighting Gallery member Icefoglights and I might be getting together this week sometime.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 16, 2016, 08:32:40 PM
I'm not a huge fan of them, but I don't mind occupancy sensors that dim the lights (as opposed to shutting them off entirely) and I don't mind them in general as long as they don't falsely turn off when you're still in the room. Some cheaper occupancy sensors don't have great range so they can't detect a person anywhere in the room so the lights might go out while you're still in the room.

BTW check out my last comments on LG. I got two additions to the collection tonight. 8) (not the half-pipe and friend, but two lights from my aunt's and uncle's house that I had given up hope on getting). Pics of them to come in the following days. I gotta clean them out. The WWII style one had it's ballast blow up so there's a nice hearty glob of tar on the inside of the reflector and some tar all over the top housing. The reflector is glazed porcelain, which makes the light even better. I'll have to source a replacement ballast though.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 16, 2016, 08:50:18 PM
My dad and I helped build this place for a guy, a multimillion dollar 18X70 2 story building.  It was a masterpiece.  But ALL the lighting was on occupancy sensors, the idea being that since it was off grid the lights (all LED, at the time much more expensive; this was probably 5 years ago now) were sure to turn off, thus not running down a battery bank when a generator wasn't running.  But reportedly they all have "blind spots", and the resident caretaker told me he has this special routine just so the damn lights turn themselves off as he walks through the building!  He hates them.

AWESOME! Basement remodel?  Are you getting the F96 strip down there too at some point?  Tell me more!  As for the one ballast that burnt up, are you tossing that light as a result or are you going to try to save it and give it a new lease on life? 

On a whim I went to the dump today.  The transfer station is right across from the university, literally. Probably intended so that when people move out of dorms/campus apartments if they have no choice but to take their extra stuff to the dump, it's close.  But it's a free for all, a bunch of dumpsters in a gravel lot.  I rummaged through the bulb bin and saved three, two NOS looking, GE F40 chroma 50 lamps.  Two Ecolux, one black meatball etc.  Two in a sleeve style I'd never before seen, I'll post pics.

I may give them to Icefoglights if he wants them.  I did PM him and tell him about the place already..."It will vary by the day, but I found another lighting treasure trove here in town".

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 21, 2016, 01:28:22 AM
Met up with fellow LG member Icefoglights tonight.  Gave him the Chroma 50s.  He also brought be a couple surprises.  First was a Sylvania H39KC-175/DX BT28.  Lightly used, just enough to not be NOS.  Second, and the neatest of the two, was none other than a clear Lifeguard!  I kid you not!  Super lightly used too!  From March, '79. 

Also got the lighting tour of Fairbanks, some of the neat stuff I never noticed or in areas I hadn't been yet.  Some of the things I remember:  A Line Material Dusk-to-dawner, working, with a /DX lamp, albeit kinda dim, some LPS lights at some industrial loading dock places, multiple anecdotes about where gumballs, etc. used to be, and the like,  Drove by lots of abandoned NEMA fixtures.  Some were in this abandoned industrial place that we think was an Army Corps. of Engineers place, and there were a crap-ton of them in this mobile home park, though only a couple worked, and were dim as heck, and had apparently been day burning since, in one case, at least 2003.  Several other AE cobras, I'd never seen a lit mercury cobra until now.  One was a meter-socket photocell NEMA we joked somewhat seriously about renting a Zoom Boom and swapping with something else (with permission of course).   A fun way to spend 2 hours on a Thursday evening. 

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 21, 2016, 02:22:42 AM
To add to it, unfortunately the dreaded LEDisease is taking hold here too.  Lots of city owned lights are now LED, but some of them actually have a warm color to them!  Another scene was a totally MV lit parking lot, beautiful in the snow!  Also neat was getting to relate stories behind some of our various pictures. 

Also saw what appear to be outdoor slimlines, or maybe HOs. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 22, 2016, 08:07:14 PM
Went to another small town hardware store here Icefoglights and a few other people had told me about.  It's a True Value franchise but has all sorts of neat stuff.  I bought a NOS from 2001 Metalux 1X40 strip there.  It's ballast is a pretty sorry thing though, I might replace it with something more robust. It's eventually going to be used to display and sometimes light a Power Twist lamp I have back home. 

The same place also has three new in box Metalux F96T12 high output fixtures.  I didn't see a price but if they're still there in a few months I might buy them and stick them in the mail heading home.

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 22, 2016, 08:22:23 PM
Also going back to my local Batteries + Bulbs sometime soon to pick up the M57 ballast kit they have.  Can't wait to get that Lifeguard lit! 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 22, 2016, 09:09:27 PM
OH they have 175W MH ballast kits? I wish I could find them here. Are the prices there decent for the ballasts?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 22, 2016, 09:12:07 PM
59 bucks I believe.  Did you also see my other light sightseeing stories above?  There's some stuff there you'd get a kick out of.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 23, 2016, 12:26:48 AM
Got the 1X40 strip all properly assembled and wired to part of an extension cord and "installed" at the top of a wall shelving unit, reflecting off the ceiling providing indirect light.  Lamp is a Philips F40T12/DX Alto; I gave the Chroma 50s I saved from the dump the other day to Icefoglights when we met, at the same time I got the clear Westy Lifeguard and Sylvania /DX.

I'm curious as to what my roommate will comment.  We almost never use the overhead fluorescents in here (two 2-lamp T8 drop-dish surface troffer mount fixtures) since they're too bright for sitting back watching a movie, or computer work on his side of the room.  But this is way softer.  I actually find deluxe daylight or /950 more pleasant than cool white for that reason; it's usually a bit dimmer and more natural in color; a softer light.  This 90CRI daylight deluxe reminds me a lot of /950 though, it's just as "flickery" and "dim".  Granted, the ballast it's running on is a frankly piece of garbage Magnetek from May 2001.  Not only do those ballasts severely underpowered lamps, but they are very susceptible to voltage fluctuations (here, whenever somebody goes up in the elevator, all the lights in the building flicker slightly, but with this strip it's still exacerbated more).  When I first unpacked the fixture, I tried testing it by throwing a lamp in it and setting the ballast in the fixture channel (oddly enough, the ballast wasn't installed, but I think that's because a screw would stick out ever so slightly enough to damage the cardboard box the fixture came in).  With the ballast just sitting in the channel and no channel cover and not grounded (I literally stuck the wires into the end of an extension cord, but only for testing; I'd never leave it that way) I had a heck of a time getting it to light at all. When I finally got it lit the first time the lamp would not stop rectifying.  At first I figured it was just another defective Alto, but hey, I have a whole case of those F40T12/DX Altos at my disposal, so I just tried another, identical lamp.  Still no go.  I finally realized I'd left one of the white leads from one of the sockets disconnected.  I've never had to wire a single lamp rapid start to power (actually, I have; a trigger start F20 strip, but I don't recall it being wired like that) so I had overlooked the extra neutral lead, having never had an experience wiring something like it before to suggest such an extra wire even existed!  Even then, it wouldn't start easily, being not grounded.  Setting the channel cover on would help a little bit, but even then not much.  Properly grounded, with a 3 prong cord, and the ballast screwed down and the channel cover securely installed, it lights fine, though, and even has a good, slow ramp-up to full brightness. 

The eventual plan for this thing was to display  a Power Twist lamp I had, in a place where it could be turned on and functional of course as a conversation piece, and used for color matching or macro photography if needed with the 5500K, 91CRI light of the Vita-Lite.  But I like the way I have it set up now enough I might install it back home as another indirect light. There's several places a 1X40 strip with a crappy LPF ballast would work well for that, though on my not-clean-utility-grade power back home, being off grid, these ballasts are going to be obnoxiously flickery if they're anything like the 2-lamp versions.  (although the LPF 14/15/20 watt trigger start Universals I have are decent on less-than-totally-clean power). 

There's still about three more, I may pick them up later and ship them home, along with the HOs they have there too.  (Also NOS Metalux).  But in the meantime, being in the dorms, I'm a little short on space and don't want to blow all my money immediately on unnecessary things. 

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 23, 2016, 10:26:10 AM
$59? That's highway robbery! :o

Yeah I saw that pic of the strip installed. Looks nice! I suppose if the troffers are too bright, you could remove one lamp from each, since they're T8 I assume the lamps are independent right? What color temperature are the troffers? I love 1X4 drop dish troffers. ;D

Ah yeah when I wired up my Bonusline ballasts, I wired them both incorrectly so they did not light. The wiring diagram calls for the 120V hot incoming line to go to one pin on one socket of each lamp (the end opposite the ballast outputs) and also to the ballast. Normally, the neutral is connected to the sockets, so that's how I did it. Well it didn't work. So I did it the way the diagram said and lo and behold they worked just fine lol. In my mind I saw it "safer" to connect the neutrals to the lamps and, since AC power is used, polarity wouldn't matter. But it does in this case.

Well, the light bulb in my bathroom exhaust fan finally crapped the bed yesterday. A clear Sylvania 53W halogen, installed 5/20/2015 according to the date I marked on the base. Not bad at all, considering the light is used daily (well, nightly) though the usage is generally just a couple hours a night. I guess the lamp lasted its rated life. I won't complain though. I actually like changing light bulbs. ;D I installed a used-but-working identical halogen lamp, which came from one of the outside garage lights. It's base is also marked with a 2015 date. I went a little nuts with the clear 53W Sylvania halogens in 2015 lol.

Anyway, I had found those 75W= LEDs at the ReStore and popped two of the four into the outside lights by the garage. One 53W lamp was dead already and the other I saved and just installed in the bathroom last night. The outside lights by the front door are still 53W clear halogen. Once one of the front door lights burns out, I'll replace them both with the remaining two 75W= LED lamps I have and save the remaining good halogen for a light that burns out inside the house.

Seeing that I can now get 75W= LEDs at the ReStore for just $2/each, it doesn't look like the McCann household will be using 53W halogen lamps anymore, except where the bulkier 75W= LEDs don't fit. So the McCann household with be mostly LED!  :o  Only because I can get them really cheap though. I don't care if I'm using LEDs in the house, I just want them to be inexpensive! I'm all for saving my parents money on the electric bill since it means I can run my street lights a little more often without a guilty conscience lol. And yes, I have bought all the LEDs in hour house with my own money. I don't pay any bills living at home, so free-of-charge lighting maintenance is one of the things I do lol. Not because my parents tell me to, but because they otherwise would never get around to buying bulbs and I'd have to deal with lights that don't work, which is a HUGE pet peeve of mine, as evidenced by the fact that I spent $20 on a case of bulbs to relamp bathroom lights at a college I go to lol.


BTW, as a side note: I recently went back to my high school to visit my construction shop teacher with another friend and like half those 3X F32T8 parabolic troffers in the votech building's hallway died over the summer lol. All the ones I relamped are still burning strong (and really stick out, since they're the only fixtures with all the lamps going lol) but the one that worked before I graduated have mostly gone to shit now lol. Those GE SPX35 lamps are from 2006 so I'm amazed that they made it this long.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 23, 2016, 01:50:28 PM
Yeah, I'll be taking  a 1.9 mile (according to Google Maps) walk in our single-digit temps this very morning to go buy it!

Yeah, my house is almost all LED for the screw in stuff too. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 23, 2016, 06:38:03 PM
Went back to Batteries + Bulbs  and bought the ballast kit.  It was funny, the attendant asked me multiple times if I knew what it was and wanted to buy it.  I actually thanked them but assured them that yes, I knew what I was buying.  Got into a brief conversation with him, knowledgeable guy.  Some neat displays in there for sure!  The place is lit with 2X4 troffers in the retail area (actually it's an old gas station!) and one of them purposely has a mixed set of lamps to exhibit color temps.  And the back area is lit with slimlines, too!  Lots of slimline still in use around here, mostly with full wattage lamps! 

Still need a mogul socket and a clamshell plug so I can make a cord to plug it in for testing. Also might buy a cheap Chinese bulb for testing. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 23, 2016, 07:34:18 PM
What's a clamshell plug? Make sure you don't use a regular 120V straight blade plug and connect it directly to the mogul socket...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on October 23, 2016, 08:07:32 PM
Quote from: GEsoftwhite100watts
Lamp is a Philips F40T12/DX Alto
Nice lamp choice :)

Quote
Granted, the ballast it's running on is a frankly piece of garbage Magnetek from May 2001. 
...
so I just tried another, identical lamp.  Still no go.  I finally realized I'd left one of the white leads from one of the sockets disconnected.
Those 1xF40T12 LPF ballasts do suck, if I ever put the extra 1-lamp fixtures I have sitting around in use, I will likely upgrade them to Motorola electronic ballasts (could go with either the F40 or F32 version)
Oh and those 'cutout' lampholders they use in 1-lamp fixtures...now there is a real piece of s**t. I either replace them with a normal lampholder, or re-wire to disable the extra crap in them .LOL.   


Quote
Yeah, I'll be taking  a 1.9 mile walk in our single-digit temps this very morning to go buy it!
You are crazy!
And oh how I hate cold weather like that. (unless you're talking single-digit C temps, then that's not so bad LOL :) )
 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 23, 2016, 08:25:53 PM
Thanks Xmaslightguy!

Yeah, it works pretty well though when correctly grounded. 

Mike, a clamshell plug is what I call those plastic after market extension cord repair plugs. 

So I went back to the transfer station today.  I found four good, working (since tested) GE F40 Kitchen & Bath, and a Sylvania F34CW EcoLogic.  They all work. 

Then I found another goodie.  A preheat aquarium light!  It's comprised of one 48" lamp and one 18" lamp.  It even had a GTE/Sylvania Design 50.  The 18" lamp was a GE Kitchen & Bath.  So now I have a surplus of 3000K lamps I guess, as if I didn't already have enough, cases' worth of F40WW GEs from the "MainLighter" era. 

I'm using it above another cabinet for now as another indirect fixture but will probably end up scrapping it when I move, of course saving the guts.  For lamps, I stuck in another Philips F40T12/DX Alto, having a whole case of them and really liking Daylight Deluxe, and for the 18" I stuck in an Eiko 18" daylight lamp I also had a case of.   

Worst comes to worst, it all goes back to the dump when I move next. But at least I'm extending some of it's life a little bit!  It helps having another Lighting Gallery member around here, when I move I'll probably give them a bunch of transfer-station-save F40s. 

There were also cases and cases of slimlines, but they were all GE Ecolux F96T12/CW Watt-Miser, not something I'd want even if they were new, and they definitely weren't.  Somebody must have group re-lamped, those and the F40s I saved were in Sylvania CWX cases.  See?  Lots of slimlines still in use here, being group re-lamped in 2016!

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on October 23, 2016, 09:03:48 PM
Quote from: GEsoftwhite100watts
Then I found another goodie.  A preheat aquarium light!  It's comprised of one 48" lamp and one 18" lamp. 
Sounds interesting.
That one deff needs a pic!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 23, 2016, 09:59:40 PM
I guess I should upload some photos.  If I can somehow get it home 700 miles away it might not be a bad kitchen under cabinet light.  My house isn't fully finished anyway, so random, incomplete fixtures don't look too out of place. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 23, 2016, 10:12:02 PM
Xmaslightguy, a photo is now up!  If you'd prefer a better photo from a better angle than when I first carried it back to the dorms, just ask and I'll get one for you. 

Question for you, too:  Any ill things that can arise from a F15T8 lamp on a F15T12 choke?  I assume there's really no electrical difference to speak of.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on October 24, 2016, 02:46:25 AM
Yeah F15T12 and F15T8 ballasts are fairly interchangeable. In fact I think most modern chokes are rated for both types.

Nice find on the aquarium lamp, especially if it's a preheat 4' version.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 24, 2016, 11:21:04 AM
Preheat chokes are actually designed for F15T8s. the F15T8s are preheat start and the F15T12s are trigger start. Of course, F15T12 works just fine on preheat but F15T8 usually has issues starting on trigger start. Perhaps partially to do with the lamps being further from the grounded fixture body. But even with short sockets it does it.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 24, 2016, 12:49:07 PM
Yeah, when I saw it I originally just took out the lamps and tried to get the fixture apart to see what gear it had.  When I saw a starter, that was the deciding factor.  I thought maybe the starter was only for the 18" lamp and the 4' lamp was rapid start since it has a 3 prong cord, but nope!  Brought it and a partial case of F40s back to the dorms, plugged it in with great trepidation, and watched the GTE Sylvania F40/Design 50 it came with BLINK to life.  Did I mention even the 40w lamp did some striating and swirling and burning off mercury condensation after being brought inside from, according to the nearest time and temperature sign, 17F? The 34w Sylvania Ecologic lamp really striated of course, being that cold!  It was also super blink happy.  It's a good tester lamp. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 27, 2016, 01:33:29 AM
Oh, Mike, did I mention I'm taking driver's ed now?  We'll see how the in-car training goes LOL.  That part will be in February, and at that point it'll have been 14 months since I last drove. 

I'd originally started in December in a Dodge Ram.  In snow and ice, no less.  On mostly downhill unpaved roads, no less.  It was kinda hair raising but not all that bad to be honest.  My biggest qualms were perpendicular, 90 degree turns and backing. 

My first time trying to drive a manual transmission was, laugh at me for this, trying to bump start a Deuce and a Half by being towed by a Zoom Boom (or something like that; I don't remember).  The clutch had me so confused LOL.  To the point that I was pressing in the clutch pedal the whole time I was being towed, I mean helplessly dragged, around.  So of course it never started!  Plus those trucks are just rough riding and rattly and shaky in general (closest thing I'd compare one to is a school bus, but worse) and being a total novice I couldn't discern the good noises from the bad noises!  I do wish some video of it existed, but no. 

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 27, 2016, 08:30:06 AM
Yeah driving in the snow and ice isn't my thing. My Buick doesn't do too great in snow lol. I've never driven a stick-shift and don't plan on it lol. My friend says it's more fun than driving an automatic but I'd prefer to concentrate on my actual driving and not have to worry about when to shift lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 27, 2016, 01:10:01 PM
I understand the concept of driving a stick enough...you get used to it pretty quickly.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 27, 2016, 09:39:55 PM
Yeah my friend won't drive anything but stick. He loves it. He says automatic is for wussies (but he used another similar word... lmao). He likes to drift corners and peel out and do crazy stuff in the snow so he kinda needs a stick shift for that lol. And if you know how to use stick-shift properly, you'll save a little on gas over automatic from what I hear. It's all a personal preference, but I don't mind the little extra gas usage to avoid risking blowing the transmission if I don't shift properly lol. My applied construction mathematics teacher in high school always drove stick and his wife drove automatic and sometimes she would have to drive his car. After blowing two transmissions, he decided to just get an automatic so his wife wouldn't have to worry about destroying the transmission lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 28, 2016, 12:01:27 AM
My roommate, who daily drove his Deuce in high school, told me learning to drive stick in one shouldn't be too awful, they're apparently pretty forgiving to learn in.  I was surprise to learn that but then again they were designed to be driven by 18-25 year old novices, so in a way it's no surprise.  That's part of why I want one, they're super easy to work on, despite being old, huge, and clunky.

And at this rate, a Deuce could very well be how I learn to drive a stick.  I almost bought one last month.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 28, 2016, 08:50:49 AM
Yeah they seem to be pretty tough (as most military equipment is). Last thing you want is the thing to needlessly break down in the middle of nowhere and be unable to be serviced by the crew riding in it. I've never been inside one or rode in one but just looking at the ones I've seen they seem like they're pretty much indestructible lol.

If I lived in your area I'd probably try to get one too since they must handle the unpaved roads well and probably do alright in the snow too, right? Around here it's very densely populated compared to other areas of the country so I'd run into common issues like not being able to fit in parking spots, can't go through drive-thrus, car washes, etc. If I got one it wouldn't be my primary vehicle but I'd take it out for joy rides (though I'd imagine they're not luxury vehicles by any means lol).

My 13 year old brother wants to get a school bus for his first vehicle. He can't legally do that though since you need a CDL, which in RI, you need to be 21 years old or older to obtain and you need to have an operator's license (standard driver's license) for a minimum of two years without any suspensions or major violations like DUI, etc. So my brother would have to get a regular car by age 19 and wait two years to be able to legally drive a school bus. I suppose he could buy it and just not drive it, but there's nowhere to store it lol. My neighbors have a camper parked in their yard, so a school bus wouldn't look so odd (at least IMO) parked next to it by our sheds but the day my dad let's someone park on our lawn is the day the world ends so that's out of the question lol.

For me, if I were to have a large vehicle, it would be a bucket truck ... for obvious reasons lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 28, 2016, 01:39:25 PM
They're pretty tough for sure, but of course like any vehicle they have their little downfalls. 

Oh, yeah, at one point it looked like I'd be driving one 200 miles round trip each weekend, while living a mile down an unmaintained dirt road. The original tires aren't all that wonderful but can be upgraded.

They are a blast to drive and relatively easy to work on and they're well documented, but everything is bigger and heavier. 

Yeah, when I almost bought one not long ago I was definitely pacing off parking spaces.  There's a couple places on campus I could probably even fit one!  I'd like to move off campus though, and won't be driving until February, but I'd snap one up after that if one's for sale around my area. 

If I get one in such a short time frame, it would, yes, be my first car, literally. 

They're not what you'd consider a luxury vehicle, nor a sports car (I'm talking screaming down the freeway at 45-50MPH in the rightmost lane wearing earplugs) but they're still a lot of fun.  There's a lot of people who like them for what they are, not what they aren't, myself included.

And my roommate bought a 5 ton version of the Deuce (Deuce is a 2-/12 ton) as a 14 year old high school freshman, as the first vehicle he bought with his own money.  He still has it and we actually met because of that truck- if I hadn't commented on a thread about it on one of the military vehicle forums we would never have met.  The possibility does exist that this fall I'll get to drive it!

In Alaska, a CDL's minimum age is 19, but I don't know about minimum time for a "normal" operators license, I'll have to look.  For a Deuce, you don't need one here, but for a 5 ton, you will, as those have full air brakes.  A Deuce has air-over-hydraulic brakes, which are single circuit, which is in a way kind of a scary thing, but these trucks are designed on '50s technology!  First thing, if you get one, Mike, go through the BRAKES!!! First thing!

Shoot, your neighbors can have their RV, your brother can have their school bus, and you can have a Zoom Boom and a Deuce back there! Just kidding!

As far as the buy it and park it thing, that's what I'd do if I found a Deuce before I was driving and what I would have done with the ones I've looked at. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 28, 2016, 06:06:34 PM
LOL I'll bet those things are loud. Do they have radios? I'd imagine not considering their purpose and plus, if they're that loud the radio wouldn't do much good unless you were parked with the motor off, just running the accessories lol.

Well, I'm sure you remember those fresnel cans I was talking about to no end... Turns out the two 1st floor men's rooms and one 3rd floor bathroom have low enough ceilings where I can relamp them with a small ~6" step stool. That's 8 lamps (since the 3rd floor bathroom with the short ceiling has the working Sylvania CFL, which will remain despite being sorta cool). Both 2nd floor bathrooms have tall ceilings and so does the other 3rd floor bathroom, so I'd need a taller ~24" stepladder. If I'm sucessful with the short stepstool with the other bathrooms I might go up a notch and fix the rest with the taller wooden stepladder we have. If not, at least I fixed half of them and got to keep some of the lamps I bought too...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 29, 2016, 12:11:29 AM
They don't have radios, but people have added them.  I know I sure plan on adding one. 

Best of luck!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 29, 2016, 11:01:36 PM
I should add that people have successfully added radios and supposedly been able to hear them fine over all the other noise, but you're wearing ear plugs or muffs anyway which just dampens the overall noise level, so if you can hear the radio over the engine and road noise I should think you should still be able to hear it. 

I also think it'd just be nice having something other than the voices in my head since I'd be driving mine quite a bit, spending quite a bit of time in that cab! 

I bought a clamshell plug today and a cheap Chinese clear Regent (Caster) (Read: junk) lamp to test the ballast kit.  I went mainly for a mogul socket but no luck.  I did ask fellow LG member Icefoglights, who is located in my area, where I could find one and got a suggestion on another electrical supply place I should go and check.  Can't wait to get that Lifeguard lit!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 30, 2016, 09:32:51 AM
Not that I recommend it, but some members have tested mogul made lamps by connecting the ballast wires right to the sockets shell and center contact with electrical tape. :o Works for testing to make sure the lamp warms up properly but beyond that I wouldn't do that...

Yeah I've never been able to source mogul sockets locally. I've always had to get them online. BTW, I got my Westinghouse MO-10 up and going again with its new slipfitter threaded rods! Check out the pics on LG. :D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 30, 2016, 02:41:16 PM
Icefoglights on LG told me a place I should be able to get one around here.  I'm a little nervous about just testing without a socket, though I've heard of it being done.  I'd kind of like mine to be more functional than that; to be able to fire it up and let it run for general lighting as crazy as that sounds.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 30, 2016, 05:33:42 PM
Yeah I wouldn't test it without a socket but then again, I have access to mogul sockets. If it was impossible for me to find a mogul socket I might consider rigging a test up. Just gotta make sure you wrap it well with tape and don't test on something conductive like a metal radiator. Best thing to do is place the lamp in a glass punch bowl, but I know, what college dorm is going to have a glass punch bowl lol. The universal Dave ran Mv lamps right on his bed's comforter and didn't seem to give a crap that the sheets could ignite. Some of the things he does scare me a little as it is lol. Like 20A worth of fluorescent lights all wired with extension cords and all plugged into the same overloaded outlet.

And if something does happen, the homeowner's insurance will not cover it. Insurance doesn't covers accidents, not stupidity (though the two often go together). Oh well... I guess I should keep my opinions to myself, but stuff like that does worry me. I've done stupid stuff and gotten shocked and almost started fires and and made sparks and done some wacky stuff in my early days of wiring stuff up and just don't want to see people getting killed because they saved $5 and used the wrong materials for the job. :-\
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 30, 2016, 05:44:25 PM
If I was going to do that, I'd do it at least on a particleboard desk or something.  I remember that post about the haphazard setup on a bed.  While I wouldn't personally do that I've done plenty of stupid things myself, so I can relate to him.  If you saw my house you might cringe, but I've cleaned things up a lot in more recent times. 

Found a 4 lamp FULL SIZE CASE Advance electronic T8 ballast in a 4 lamp cloud puff light at the transfer station today.  It does work, I tested it with four GE F40/KB lamps.  I didn't save the channel cover or diffuser, since I'll probably scrap the fixture, but if I can get it home (not by mailing; I have enough stuff I might hit my roommate up about taking some of my stuff back to at least Sitka since he'll be driving back to Kansas at the end of the year, he's up here on an exchange program...offer him a couple hundred bucks in exchange for stuffing some bulky lighting stuff like fixtures and F40 lamps in his truck and trailer on the way back; we're connected to the same places and go the same other places, so it's a logical way to get stuff home) I might use it as a plant light or photography light, it would be perfect for that.  I'm currently using the Bonusline-ballasted Sears shop light as a plant light, with a pair of full mercury GE F40 Plant & Aquarium lamps, but this would be way brighter.  Or maybe as a mini-highboy light somewhere.  With the proper T8 lamps it should be quite bright. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 30, 2016, 07:31:50 PM
I saw that ballast. A nice grab! Perfect timing it sounds like!

BTW, I was streetviewing the Fairbanks area and found some interesting lighting in parking lots. Not sure what's still there and what's been LED'ed since the streetviews are mostly from 2011 but  The Bentley Mall has some nice Westinghouse OV-25TDs.  (https://www.google.com/maps/@64.8503782,-147.7017164,3a,24.3y,39.93h,92.43t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1snv2DYKo9198t-j5K5EYavQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en) And  there's some more at North Star Ballet School.  (https://www.google.com/maps/@64.8636415,-147.7588752,3a,15.7y,67.97h,94.62t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s4Yjt6QmkMkfwXt2triRWwA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en) And next to the Bentley Mall there are  some GE Power Glow lights  (https://www.google.com/maps/@64.8498872,-147.6999881,3a,54.7y,43.66h,96.24t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sohnEFk_VHvaRWexkOjHj6g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en) in the Subway plaza.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 30, 2016, 07:40:46 PM
Well, let me be the first to "welcome" you to Fairbanks!

I'll have to see if the Power Glos are still there.  I don't remember them but I pass that strip mall all the time.  Icefoglights and I drove all over Fairbanks a couple weeks ago looking at light scenery.  Go over by the West Side Fred Meyer, the one not by Walmart.  Further south on the left is a Line Materials Dusk to Dawner! 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 30, 2016, 08:00:10 PM
I couldn't find the Dusk-To-Dawner but I did find  this NEMA not far from the Fred Meyer, missing the bucket and the outer envelope on what appears to be a MV lamp!  (https://www.google.com/maps/@64.8351059,-147.8245252,3a,21.2y,145.28h,98t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sUaOVvA_tYGVMYmBZhpshVw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 30, 2016, 08:06:00 PM
Actually, that looks almost like LPS!  I can't say I've been down that street that I remember, unless maybe that night with Icefoglights, but in a car at night while engaged in conversation with someone you don't notice the surroundings as much.

There's some abandoned NEMAs he and I need to go rescue LOL. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 30, 2016, 08:21:15 PM
Ya know, it does now that you mentioned it... LPS didn't even occur to me as a possibility lol. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 30, 2016, 08:26:14 PM
LPS is also oddly a thing around here in private installations.  I'd link to the Streetview of some of them, but I can't remember where they are, believe it or not!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 30, 2016, 08:55:13 PM
Hmm they must've been common in hardware stores then. Do you have any observatories around there? LPS is unheard of here. The Massachusetts Turnpike used LPS lights but they've replaced them all with 150W and 250W HPS in the past 10 years and now MassDOT is installing LEDs like RIDOT.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 30, 2016, 08:56:48 PM
Not as far as I know, and with Fairbanks' skyglow it'd be impossible anyway.  Too many NEMAs/yardblasters, and MH-lit gas stations and convenience stores for that LOL. If we did, I'm sure we'd have much stricter light trespass ordinances.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 30, 2016, 09:42:09 PM
Yeah I noticed College Road (and pretty much every other "big road" in the area) is lit continuously with big tall 400W HPS lights. doesn't seem necessary to light a section of road with nothing but woods on either side. Maybe stick a light where there's an intersection or something and make it 150W or something but no wonder you've got skyglow issues lol. And I noticed the side streets that have street lights are mostly 250 and 400W as well. Is electricity really cheap up there or something? lol

Around here there's some main roads lit with 50W HPS and I think it's ridiculous but this the other end of the spectrum lol. (I guess it could be worse; I was told a few areas in Texas have 1000W HPS street lighting! :o  )
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 30, 2016, 10:07:36 PM
Fairbanks is just weird like that.  Ironically parts of the university campus lack streetlights.  Where all else did you go?  Did you explore the university at all?

Did the Streetvieewing remove any preconceived notions of Alaska being ice and igloos and polar bears, BTW?  Fairbanks is another west coast strip mall.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on October 30, 2016, 10:25:55 PM
50w HPS seems like it'd be kinda dim for a street :lol: even the neighborhood streets here have 100w HPS.
There are still some neighborhoods in other towns that have MV :)

-----
One of my battery-backup ballasts has started buzzing (60hz) from time to time...hopefully that doesn't mean its gonna make like a Samsung Galaxy 7 & go boom :o :?:

-----
I setup a 2xF40 blacklight to fade on/off along with some other lights, plan to have it that way for Halloween :)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 30, 2016, 10:54:07 PM
Yeah, they love high wattage HPS in Alaska it seems.

Got any video of the blacklight fading on and off?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 31, 2016, 08:11:07 AM
Yeah 50W HPS is pretty useless but they're still brighter than the original 1000 lumen incandescent street lights that were there.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 31, 2016, 01:25:44 PM
70w HPS actually seems pretty bright IMHO.  I knew a case where somebody put one in, in an area with NO streetlights and NO skyglow whatsoever, and their house had the big orange glow. 

Hopefully by this weekend I'll have the Lifeguard fired up, can't wait!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 31, 2016, 03:04:07 PM
What type of fixture did they install? Yardblaster or tallpack? Those guys can make a 35W HPS into a glarebomb lol. It also makes a huge difference when it's a dark area. 50W HPS actually does seem pretty bright in a rural area. 50W HPS is usable when you're walking on the street at night but when you're driving, the dash lights actually drown out the light from the street light and your headlights are way brighter than the 50W HPS too. But if there were no dash lights on the car I think 50W HPS would appear brighter.

I can tell you first hand though that 100W MV is WAAY brighter than 50W HPS when both lamps are new. It's when the 100W MV lamps age that the 50W HPS ends up being brighter. Even 70W HPS appears ever so slightly dimmer than a new 100W MV lamp. I actually think 100W HPS is a better replacement for 100W MV. The light level on the ground is about the same but a 100W HPS fixture looks way brighter than a 100W MV fixture. The softer light from the MV just makes it better. Maybe HPS and MH would be less glarey if diffused/coated lamps were the standard. Clear MV obviously has more glare than /DX but it's not as bad as HPS or MH. I don't like clear MV for general lighting though since it makes everyone look like zombies lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on October 31, 2016, 08:20:22 PM
@GEsoftwhite100watts:
Nope, don't have a video of it.
One of these days I need to do a YouTube vid for the dimmable magnetic ballast that I used in it :)

I bet that Lifeguard will look great fires up!

@Mike:
I've never seen an incandescent streetlight in use, that pre-dates my time LOL...everything was MV when I was young (which I think is one of the reasons I really like MV).
I could see 50w HPS being plenty bright if you were way out from the city & all its ambient light.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 31, 2016, 10:21:19 PM
When I was born HPS was king, but I did take note of the MV lights around, namely noticing that they were whiter. I also had noticed the stickers on the doors and noticed that the white-light street lights all either had no sticker or a blue sticker while the "normal" orange-light street lights mostly had yellow, metallic, or white stickers (the white simply being faded yellow; the mid-90s GE NEMA tags were known for that).

I had never seen an incandescent street light for the longest time but when I was 5 years old I saw my first two incandescent street lights when we moved into my current house. Both are gone now. When we first moved in, neither one worked. Then one randomly started working again (must've been an open fuse or something on the pole, or maybe they actually did replace the bulb, which I doubt). Then the working one was removed with no replacement and the never-working one was replaced with a 50W HPS M-250R2 on a brand new arm.

 The one that was fixed before being removed was on the older pole here.  (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7785883,-71.4843765,3a,25.5y,5.68h,89.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1suqrZSH54S2aIC_ao5w2rHA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en) the newer pole was there long before the light was removed (and the old pole is still there...) so I'm not sure why it was removed. Even more unsure why it was fixed lol. My only guess is that there was an open circuit that was fixed unrelated to the light.

 This is where the light that never worked was located.  (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7783727,-71.4811145,3a,83.6y,217.73h,100.18t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFEQBzxHQnI24CzwEOjRfkA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en) The pole was replaced and the old light simply wasn't transferred over. So new pole, arm, and light! I think the M-250R2 might have stopped working though. TBH I don't pay attention to it.

 Here's an incandescent light I found on streetview.  (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8605933,-71.5341162,3a,15.7y,58.56h,109.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sY2K5rjjHm6i3NvoA9fpvuA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en) When I drove by at night, I saw that there was a 50W HPS M-250R2 in its place, but they kept the old arm. And  the other light on the street was a radial wave as well.  (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8605997,-71.5348407,3a,25.4y,313.22h,114.23t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSuyLDcAihNdrJFq291nuIw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en) It was also replaced with a 50W HPS M-250R2 that looked quite recent, but it didn't work!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 01, 2016, 11:36:21 AM
Yeah, it seems all our old lights here are private installations. Most city owned streetlights are LED now, the street view of Fairbanks doesn't reflect that since it was done in 2011.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 01, 2016, 12:24:04 PM
Yeah I noticed some LEDs even back in 2011, which was pretty early for LEDs.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on November 01, 2016, 08:31:29 PM
@Mike:
I'll have to check out those links later, since I can't from the system I'm on right now.

---
It wasn't til the past couple years that LED streetlights really started showing up in force here - this year in paticular.
There's still tons of HPS around, and limited amounts of MV in some areas. (and in 'private' installations like business/store/etc parking lots its nearly all MH or HPS)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 01, 2016, 10:59:20 PM
I get the impression it's been an even adoption rate here, though Icefoglights told me the state just started testing LEDs; previously you could really tell state owned lights apart from city owned lights since city owned lights were LED and state owned lights were HPS.  I'm pretty sure the power company used to own the city owned lights.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 02, 2016, 01:10:26 PM
Same, before this year there weren't many LED lights on the streets and freeways. RIDOT's first LEDs were installed in 2014 in a few small installations. Now almost the whole state's network of freeways is LED.

Here on the freeways you could tell the RIDOT (state-owned) lights from the utility-owned (NGrid) lights because of the poles used. NGrid uses straight poles with bolt on mast arms while RIDOT uses curved "davit" poles, which give the appearance of being one piece (but it actually is two sections...). Some older RIDOT poles weren't davits but those sections have davits mixed in so it kinda gives it away.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 02, 2016, 01:18:40 PM
Here we have some neat old poles and arms I bet probably had gumball figures back in the day, but now they all have illuminated waffle irons.  I need to post the pictures of them I've taken.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 02, 2016, 03:30:12 PM
Yeah wee have some neat arms too from the 60s. And even fewer from before then from the remote ballast MV and incandescent days.

BTW, I relamped the three bathrooms with the short ceilings! I used my short 6" folding step stool. Both 1st floor bathrooms and one 3rd floor bathroom were relamped. The other 3rd floor bathroom and both 2nd floor bathrooms have the tall ceiling. The only time anyone came into the bathrooms while I was relamping was the 3rd floor bathroom; a teacher came in while I was fixing the light by the door and he came close to peeing himself (or crapping himself, if that's what he was going in there to do lol). He just asked if it was alright for him to go into the bathroom (seeing that I was working on the lights). I said "yep, I'm just finishing up. Finally got some light in here!" And it was all good. His look changed to confused when he saw the backpack though, since he then realized I was a student and not a maintenance hand. He didn't say anything though.

So... Seeing that those bathrooms were a success, I will be back with a taller ~24" stepladder to finish what I started in the bathrooms with the taller ceilings. The extra light actually does make a bit of a difference. I'll grab pics and post them to LG in a couple weeks.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on November 02, 2016, 10:10:43 PM
There's still a few of these arms around my neighbourhood.

(http://www.galleryoflights.org/mb/gallery/albums/userpics/normal_P9102992SBW.JPG) (http://www.galleryoflights.org/mb/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-8351)

I have a feeling they originally had either gumballs or clamshells. They now have LEDs but a couple years ago they had OV-15s and B2217s. Around Southern Ontario, I'd say the LED adoption rate is around 40-50% with a lot of smaller towns and cities using LED now. Around half of the municipalities in the GTA are LED, the rest is mostly HPS. 

Yeah, I saw your pics of the newly relamped washroom on LG, very nice job and looks a lot brighter now.

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 06, 2016, 02:54:40 AM
Neat old arms there, Joe!  You and Mike would love all the mercs and T12s in my area. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on November 08, 2016, 05:41:12 PM
Thanks! I'm a bit curious about what was actually on these arms when they were first installed. Unfortunately, archival pictures of streets outside Toronto are much harder to find. I'd reckon the original lights were remote ballasted MV as there's still some ballast cans left on some of the poles. Kinda odd seeing a remote ballast on a arm with a LED though. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 08, 2016, 05:53:30 PM
The funny thing is, pretty much all LEDs have 120-277V universal voltage drivers, so could you possibly power the LED with the remote ballast still connected as long as the LED fixture uses less watts than the original fixture?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 08, 2016, 08:49:08 PM
Maybe, albeit at the expense of more watts from an unnecessary ballast still hooked up, and abysmal power factor (ballast on a ballast)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 10, 2016, 12:27:41 PM
I might be getting a '40s 2X40 preheat shop light!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 10, 2016, 04:58:27 PM
Awesome! I'm going up to a university in NH with a friend to meet up some friends. My first "college party" and it's not even at my own college lol. (because I'm at community college, and there's no dorms)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 11, 2016, 12:11:44 AM
Have fun and stay safe, avoid the alcohol!  Sorry, just had to say it.

Ballast in the maybe soon to me mine fixture is a '40s Sola and it has a CLOTH cord.


Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 11, 2016, 01:39:40 AM
Could also easily be made a 3 lamper, the knockouts for the extra set of sockets are already punched out or so it appears in the pictures.  That said, Mike, I'd still be interested in that old half pipe if you still want to part with it. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 11, 2016, 10:02:32 AM
Yeah if/when I get it, it's yours for shipping within a reasonable amount of time.

BTW, what's up with the L-G site? I get redirected to this weird site... ???
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 11, 2016, 01:42:14 PM
LG worked fine for me just now. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 11, 2016, 11:25:26 PM
Yeah it's fine now but the site was down this morning. I wonder what happened.

Anyway, I know you're not a street light guy Andy, but I just posted pics here and on LG of my Craigslist haul! 4 lights. It was a BOGO (buy one get one) special since he dropped two and broke them so he gave them to me for free. One just needs the glass but the other one had a cracked housing and a chunk missing from the door. Cast aluminum is brittle stuff so I'm better off saving the guts and trying to find another housing and door. I paid $60 total for everything ($30/each for the two good lights, though one of the "good" lights has a failing capacitor so I gotta get a new cap, but the light itself is in good shape).

They came from Providence as a result of their LED conversion, so these are local lights! That also makes them NGrid lights! Plus he included extra bulbs and PCs with them too.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 11, 2016, 11:43:58 PM
Sweet!  Hopefully someday I can give you that M-400A!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: ResR on November 12, 2016, 06:27:52 AM
BTW, what's up with the L-G site? I get redirected to this weird site... ???
I have same problems with that site, most of times it redirects to badly written html site but sometimes I'm able to "glitch in", looks like it's DNS is hacked and the hack code is not loading every time due to the bug in the code. When I do get in the :MV: site it looks normal and all the images appear to be intact so the database is not yet compromised.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 13, 2016, 07:39:21 PM
Mike, I thought of one of your earlier comments today: 

I went transfer station hunting, as I often do, and brought back a used but working GE meatball-etch Chroma 50.  Firing it up next to /D, I swore it was a SP41 misprint, no joke, until my eyes adjusted!  It was also so flickery by comparison I had to make sure it wasn't rectifying! 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 13, 2016, 09:45:31 PM
Yeah when you're eyes are saturated with a cooler fluorescent like daylight (and probably C75) everything else seems warmer. 5000K looks like CW and CW looks like 3500K and 3500K looks like WW lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 13, 2016, 10:06:57 PM
Yeah, I'd love to compare C50 with C75.  Daylight looks very blue by itself, but I like it.  Now that I've been exposed to /D, I find I can't stand Chroma 50 by comparison, too purple and flickery.  I already gave several to fellow LG member Icefoglights, I'm also giving this one and several F40/Kitchen & Bath to him.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 15, 2016, 02:43:19 PM
Well, Mike, it looks as though I may become a Deuce owner this spring.  This one could use some work, but then again this one is a 37 year old truck.  ('79).  Not as old as the previous two I almost bought, which were '68, almost 50 year old trucks, the first of which I might have been driving 200 miles round trip every weekend, no less, down that Richardson Highway.  (Remember that thing?  We Streetviewed it).

Did I mention the speed limit on that section of "freeway" got bumped up to 60 now? 

Will you laugh at me if I told you it would also be my first vehicle?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on November 15, 2016, 06:58:27 PM
Did some relamping at school today, I relamped a dead troffer with some T8s salvaged from a removed fixture. The troffer was the cheaper kind that didn't have a door for the diffuser which also broke in two when I tried to remove it. Fortunately I salvaged a replacement diffuser from the dumpster so no one can tell the difference now lol.   

I guess this also counts towards the weird stuff I was carrying around the hallway list too lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 15, 2016, 07:56:02 PM
Awesome you relamped some fixtures! I haven't relamped the second half of the recessed cans at school yet. Not sure if I will...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 15, 2016, 11:16:32 PM
I've since blatantly carried F40s down the hallway to/from my dorm, nobody seems to care, everybody minds their own business, except for bag checks on weekends for big events, since I live in the freshman, no-alchohol dorms, they don't want alcohol getting into the building for obvious reasons, so they do bag checks sometimes, but that's it.

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 19, 2016, 11:18:33 PM
Found a ton of stuff today at the dump.  To name some of it: (What I remember)
-A dresser drawer worth of C9 Christmas lights, ceramic multicolor.  A very STUFFED dresser drawer's worth.  Some seem to have blown fuses, but the strings that do work have almost ALL working lamps, with ceramic in good shape too!  I couldn't stand the thought of them being crushed and buried LOL. 
-A couple Action-Tungsram incandescents like I've never seen before
-Feit 40/60w low-lumen long life bulbs, new in box!
-GE 25, 40, 60w with the GENERAL ELECTRIC no meatball anywhere etch
-Philips DuraMax 45w R20
-Philips R20 Halogena spot
-GE Helical 15w 6500K
-Greenlite 13w 5000K, the OLD resonant start ones that despite being electronic were HEAVY and LASTED.
-Original 25 watt LOA spiral
-GE helical 10w 2700K
-NVision/TCP 13, 19, 23w 2700K
Philips Earth Light 25w (the OLD, original U tube ones)
-GE Biax electronic from that same era
-Panasonic preheat globe, kind of a neat find!
-Preheat PL adapters
-Not to mention some coat hangers! 

Most of the CFLs will go to the "free store" most likely, though I may keep the 5000K and 6500K and 10w 2700K.  Might keep the low-lumen 40w Feits and the Halogena and spot are already in use in some of my clip on lamps. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 20, 2016, 06:59:09 PM
Holy crap you sure made out like a bandit!

After a two-day hiatus, the street light in front of my house is apparently back to working normal. I wasn't home at dusk to see if it started normally at the time the PC switched it on, but when I came home at 6:45 (ten minutes ago) it was on! I guess it's back in business for now lol. Maybe the ignitor has a loose wire or something. The ignitor is only used for starting so as along as the connection remains good long enough for the ignitor to strike the lamp, the lamp won't go out if the connection is broken (just like with fluorescent starters, but fluorescent starters and HID ignitors are very different animals. If anything an HID ignitor resembles a BBQ ignitor for a gas grill more than a fluorescent starter).

They've made some more LED progress in my direction, slowly creeping toward my neighborhood. Not sure how far they are from doing my street though since when they LED the main roads, they've LED'ed some neighborhoods off the main road and others remain HPS when the LED the main road so I have no idea what they're going to do. At any rate, I hope to catch them removing the light in front of my house (I know, broken record lol).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 20, 2016, 08:17:21 PM
Get it if you can, along with a few others!  Or report yours as not working right, so you can be there when it gets fixed.

Found a SLI Cool White Deluxe there today, with a weird order code: F40CW/DX!  It's a standard Sylvania type CWX, very pink.  In fact I think it's NOS! It didn't want to start on preheat, kind of like a new lamp can be stubborn to start the first time.  At first, it rectified on preheat, but I thought it was just so darn cold from being brought indoors from -5F and needed to warm up and stabilize, but then it went out and relit normally.  Full brightness too.  Looks new. 

Also found a Utilitech (Lowes) 3500K 13w CFL, my first 3500K spiral!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 20, 2016, 08:54:19 PM
Since the city owns the lights now, outages are reported to the Cranston Public Works. However, they said that no repairs to existing street lights will be performed. Reported outages of existing street lights will be addressed during the scheduled changeout for that street (aka the light will remain broken until it is replaced with an LED). They mention that street lights that are out in areas deemed to be "hazardous" will have their fixture replaced with an LED ahead of the scheduled changeout but the light in front of my house isn't at an intersection nor on a major road so it likely wouldn't be fixed any quicker. Plus I'm afraid I'd be less apt to notice if they only did my light as opposed to slowly working their way down the street. I guess in my head I think I'll hear the truck's loud diesel engine down the street.

Every time I head a loud vehicle coming down the road I peer out my shade and look to see if they're coming to take my street light away!!!

That SLi lamp sure does have a weird code! Yeah preheat usually does better than RS at really cold starts, but preheat doesn't always strike properly in the cold when it does start. With fresh starters, I'd say preheat is more reliable at starting in the cold. Once it gets below a certain temperature RS just won't do anything but dim-glow. From what I see the HPF ballasts are a bit better at starting in the cold than NPF but I'm comparing 2X HPF to 1X NPF so not sure if its apples to oranges... Aged starters are less reliable in the cold though, from what I've seen. In my cousins' grandma's garage, after I relamped all the shoplites and changed the dead starters, they all started fine, but in the dead of winter, the ones with newer starters started up much more easily than the ones with aged starters. I guess since the colder lamps are harder to start the aged starters have a tougher time.

3500K CFLs are the perfect color temperature IMO! They're warmish but not drab like soft white incandescents can be or pink like warm white CFLs are. I had seen some somewhere. I think I had one at one point too (Sylvania IIRC) but I can't find it. Oh well... My household lamps are all mixed up randomly between a few bins/boxes so sorting through them would be a PITA lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 20, 2016, 08:57:54 PM
Yeah, I wonder if a cold vs warm starter makes a difference?  The starter was indoors at 68F along with the fixture.  The "misfires" do at least get it rectifying which helps heat it up enough that it will eventually go out and restart.  A really blink happy lamp is a 34 watt lamp on (NPF, don't worry) preheat brought in from the cold!

Oh, did I mention I might be picking up that Deuce this spring? 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on November 20, 2016, 10:27:29 PM
LPF (F40) is less likely to to start in cold than HPF - even the 2x version. Preheat certainly more reliable (atleast for 1-lamp, I've never tried a 2x since I don't have any ballasts)
And electronic is really the best option - and with that instant-start over programmed start... but if it gets down cold enough, even IS can have issues starting, especially in an ungrounded fixture.

I could see a cold-starter being slower to get going, since they do operate on heat.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 20, 2016, 10:57:42 PM
That was my thought, the bimetal switch.  Since the starter was warm and the lamp was cold, it made for an unusual combo I guess.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 21, 2016, 02:18:52 PM
Yeah the fixtures I witnessed had both cold lamps and cold starters. The actual starters being cold is probably what delayed the starting. Starters work similarly to those blinking mini Christmas lights, right? They have a metal strip that curls when heated to open the circuit then when it cools it closes and heats up and opens again.

It must have to get pretty cold for an IS not to fire! The coldest I've ever seen was -5*F and the CFLs in the glarebomb post top in front my neighbor's yard did light, but they were very dim and pink, probably because the mercury couldn't vaporize, so they were artificially mercury starved. The fixture is enclosed (but certainly not draft-tight, so cold wind was definitely blowing on the spiral) and if it was opened the lamps might not have even started. That's when LEDs come in clutch. If anything, they are brighter in the bitter cold to some extent. But incandescents take home the medal, since temperature has no effect on starting or performance. Those guys will light in -40*F or well over 100*F. What CFL or LED can do that for an extended period of time?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 21, 2016, 02:34:46 PM
Yup, starters operate on the same principle as the bimetal switch in a mini christmas light flasher bulb, except there's an arc through argon or neon gas and not a filament.  Still, the heat makes the bimetal switch expend. 

Yeah, I can't imagine an IS not firing.  It's funny, I've been told sometimes CFLs burn themselves out trying to light at -40F but often they do just fine.  Fellow LG member Icefoglights has one outside in an enclosed fixture that still warms up to be very usably bright in those kind of temps. But in the open, with wind/drafts, I could see problems.  A few neighbors had them in outside use in open fixtures and they would always be dimmer on cold days, but back home it's not so much frigid temps like here as it is WINDCHILL!  :o  Coldest I've so far experienced was about -8F. 

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on November 21, 2016, 09:57:15 PM
I've had CFL's not fire up when it gets down below zero ... even if they do start, they're so dim that they're worthless (though in an enclosed fixture they will warm up - if they light .lol. )

And yep some IS won't fire up once it gets down below -10F (or maybe it was below -15 at that point, I don't remember). Weather like that f'ing sucks, I hate it, personally can't blame a light for not wanting to work either LOL Once it gets to a certain point it even kinda hurts to breathe.

Coldest I remember experiencing is -22F  (luckily there was little if any wind to make it feel any colder)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 22, 2016, 01:02:45 AM
Just glowing at the electrodes or nothing at all?

Coldest I've personally experienced so far as about -9F.  Your eyes start watering, and it freezes on your face, in your facial hair!

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on November 22, 2016, 10:03:59 PM
@GEsoftwhite100watts:
Nothing at all.. 1st time I saw it do that I thought it might have blown because of the cold, but a couple days later when the weather warmed up again it worked fine :)

Also I don't know if you've ever seen one of those LOA 2xF40 (the older ones that are basically preheat with an electronic starter) - especially the way they flicker & strobe when cold...
You get those cold enough and they also won't fire up at all...no end glow or anything, simply appear to be 'off'. But cold can also fry the ballast - if its at the point where it actually does light, but is too cold for the lamp to ever warm up enough & stop strobing...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 22, 2016, 10:18:10 PM
Oh, yes, I've seen those abysmal LOA workbench lights in below freezing but not below zero cold.  They work JUST okay with 40w lamps, but with 34w, FUGGEDABOUTIT!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 25, 2016, 02:50:48 PM
Well, I'm getting a vintage 2X40 preheat shop light.  Vintage Sola ballast, original cord, etc.  Is it morally unethical to use modern Alto lamps in it?

And, I finally resorted to Amazon to get a mogul socket so I can test the 175w lamps I've found.  28 bucks including shipping for that tiny piece of porcelain.  I feel like I got taken to the cleaners but the electrical supply places are probably worse.  Can't wait to see those lamps lit!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 25, 2016, 07:40:20 PM
Picked up my first High Output fixture today!  ;D Unfortunately, it's not something I can probably keep.  For one thing, it's eight feet long, so it's going to be difficult to get home.  Secondly it's been saved from a dumpster and is bent up badly (ski gloves and my hands got it mostly straight but it still needs help) and thirdly it's missing channel covers, I wasn't going to root through the dumpster for them but there were broken lamps that clearly were in it. 

If, for some crazy reason, I could get it home, I would still probably un-bend it, get  a set of lamps and throw it up in the garage.  If not, I'll pull the ballast (I tested with a single F32T8 between the red and blue leads and yes it does work) and save it as a spare for some other vintage HO turret lights I'm eventually to be the owner of. 

I also picked up a somewhat vintage looking slimline.  Here again, it's in rough shape, and is missing channel covers and the center piece, and has a replacement ballast with short leads, but I'd be willing to bet it's functional.  Here again, I'll most likely toss the housings but save the guts.  Any ideas what brand would have vintage GE lamp holders?  Maybe really old Lithonia?


Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 25, 2016, 07:52:59 PM
Nice! Yeah if I were you I'd just save the ballast and lampholders and possibly convert one of your slimline strips to HO if there's enough height on those strips. With my sear F40/RS shoplight, there was just enough room to convert to HO and there was already a KO for the ballast screw & nut to be set up for the HO too and the socket brackets flipped to the plunger style too so literally the only modification I had to make to the fixture body was trim a little of the ends of the reflector.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 25, 2016, 10:05:04 PM
Yeah, the HO strip was pretty mangled.  Admittedly some of the mangling on both came from a certain idiot thinking he could extract the ballasts by bending the fixture to release the notch they're held in at.  It didn't work, next time I'm going with a screwdriver! I did ask fellow LG member 'Icefoglights' who lives around here if he had any interest in a couple kinda mangled 8 footers as restoration projects (I would have happily properly unbent, cleaned up, gotten new lamp holders, found channel covers, etc) but no, no need for them. So the HO strip gets scrapped I think.  Probably bend it in half and throw it in the dumpster LOL. 

Slimline...I might keep it until I move out, I can at least use it as major indirect light above a set of 8 foot long shelves here, if I can find some free tubes.  (When I move again in May, the lamps would just go back to the transfer station, and the fixture channel would too, but ballast extracted).  Haven't yet tested it since I have no way of doing so but I really have no doubt...LOL. 

I did manage to test the HO ballast though.  I used a single F32T8 between the red and blue leads, LOL!  It does work, and instant starts sorta violently with such a lamp, but works fine, and not overly bright either, surprisingly.  I had to test with a pair of craptastic push in tombstone lamp holders that came with a lot of Craigslist F32T8s I got, that were removed in favor of LED tubes.  So I couldn't test with two lamps, since the sockets were shunted (needed more "spaces" to get sockets on the yellow-wire side of the ballast) but I'm satisfied it works. 

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 28, 2016, 10:10:53 PM
Well, on my to school at about 9:30AM, I saw a bucket truck replacing  this light with an LED.  (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7641276,-71.4978622,3a,42.6y,167.1h,95.68t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWvkdLE2Vp7sGvGZsAswigA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en) Well, I saw the guy coming down from the pole in the bucket after the LED was installed. They did a section of the road with 18 lights. From the beginning at the Phenix Ave end  This being the first light  (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7580553,-71.4954088,3a,50.6y,338.59h,96.81t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sdRlC_lryGZZ1tiw3-ayuSg!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DdRlC_lryGZZ1tiw3-ayuSg%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D224.2155%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en) and the Rowe Drive intersection,  here.  (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7672064,-71.502083,3a,45.7y,282.36h,94.22t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSnSKAQq62d9EsThc5h7OPQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en) The light I saw being removed is about midpoint of the stretch they replaced with LEDs. The road does look about as bright as it was before, but under better colored light. But when you enter the beam of the LEDs it's like someone driving toward you with high beams on. Ouch! I actually had my eyes looking forward down the road and the lights were still borderline blinding me as I passed each one.

Could be a safety hazard because for that one second or so you're under the beam of light it washes out everything else so for the most part you see darkness in front of you, except for where your headlights are directly lighting. If it was raining (which makes nighttime seeing even worse) and someone/something darted out in front of you, you could hit them/it.

Oh, and no, unfortunately I didn't stop and ask about the light. I would have been late for class otherwise. :-\ Plus the guy was about ready to leave so by the time I pulled over and got out and approached the truck the guy would have been climbing into the cab ready to drive off. However, I WAS able to see what company is doing the Cranston Changeout. Superior Electric CO (from Warwick RI). I drove by and there were oddly no bucket trucks there or large dumpsters of any kind. I'm thinking they might have a satellite location like a warehouse/garage  or yard or something where they keep the bucket trucks and probably the dumpsters full of Cranston's street lights.

What happens is the utility electrician company hired to do the changeouts for the city removes the lights and takes them back to their facility and puts them into the dumpsters. The dumpsters are sent to the scrapyard. The city gets the scrap revenue from the lights but never actually handles the lights, so there wouldn't be any removed lights at the Department of Public Works or anything like that. Superior Electric probably has a second location. The place I found looked like it was probably their offices anyway.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 28, 2016, 11:15:45 PM
Ask about the scrap dumpster, offer them cash!

Is that an old merc in the first Streetview link?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 29, 2016, 02:24:55 AM
I found one place I can't use 90CRI/6500K: The desk light.  Too hard, blue of a light quality.  I otherwise love it, but not here.  Going 5000K I think...whatever Home Depot or Lowes has in a 2 pack.  I want Sylvania or Philips anyway...not GE like at Fred Meyer, and not Kitchen & Bath or 4100K, at least I don't think.  Maybe...

Might try the Philips Natural Light.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 29, 2016, 12:40:00 PM
Nope the light in the first street view is an American Electric Series 113 from 1992-1994. It's one of the few 100W HPS 113s here. They were almost exclusively used in 50W HPS for whatever reason. They used mostly M-250R2s for 100W HPS (well they used GE M-250R2s in general, but when they did use AE 113s, they were almost always 50W HPS). The only MVs in my area are those 100W MV M-250A2 FCOs.

I can't get lights out of the dumpster. If I get lights it would have to be through linemen. If the city ever found out they let people grab stuff out of the dumpster they'd cancel the contract with the company. They don't want that. But the individual lineman might not mind giving one light or two.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 29, 2016, 12:53:43 PM
Scrapping perfectly useful items drives me nuts!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 29, 2016, 12:58:05 PM
Agreed. >:(
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 29, 2016, 01:15:21 PM
On a brighter note, might be working on the M-400A this time next month...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 29, 2016, 09:20:39 PM
Awesome! If you get stumped I'll be happy to help. Generally with GE lights, the black supply wire is connected to the far left and common/neutral/white is far right. that's true for all 120V GE street lights and most in general I think. Then if there's an unused terminal you can connected the ground supply wire to it and pigtail a wire from the fixture side of the terminal block to a screw in the housing (I usually use one of the screws that holds the terminal block in place). GE's fixtures always used color-coded wires and were pretty consistent over the years up to present day so I'd say they're the easier to wire up. AE used all black wires (except for the PC socket) for a LONG time so their fixtures are like freakin' impossible to wire up lol. Instead, the wires had little white tags on them that said what they were instead of being color coded. Westinghouse used cloth wiring until the 70s and the color faded out of the wires so they all look white after years. When it comes to restoring fixtures, I like GE fixtures the best. They tend to disassemble the easiest. Westinghouse lights always get stuck screws and some parts don't come apart to clean very easily. With Westy, the ballast wires are integral. GE uses slip-on connectors for everything in their fixtures except for the PC sockets. Ironically the PC sockets were one place Westy did use slip-on connectors (the other places being the terminal block and lamp socket).

The M-400A should be pretty easy to wire up but if you get stumped take some pictures of the inside and try to map out the wiring if you can. Key things are how the capacitor is tied into the circuitry, how many sets of coils the ballast has, etc.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 30, 2016, 01:16:41 PM
Also, if it's 240v it's not gonna be 3-wire where I can just take a jumper over to the other leg, right? I'll definitely let you now, and I have fellow LG member Icefoglights within reach by text message so between you two I'll probably figure it out LOL.

What are the odds of anything going wrong after it's powered up for the first time in easily at least a decade after sitting outside, much of that time upside down?  Capacitor bursting?  Might be a PCB one...Anything else turning into a pyrotechnics display?  Could test it on a GFCI outlet for sure, assuming it's 120v that is.  Myself and my electrically savvy godfather looked at it a few years ago and were pretty stumped.  It had two transformer looking coils, so what kind of ballast/voltage might that be?  You told me years ago but I don't remember.  LOL. 

If its guts are bad and/or become bad (burst into pyrotechnics) when I try it would you still possibly want the light, as-is, to see what might be salvageable?  If that was the case I might just wire the socket directly to the mains and use it on 120v with a large CFL or remote ballast it to 175w probe start MH.  Actually, I might be able to stuff my Keystone CWA ballast in there, if I removed the factory guts, with some fudging, or build a remote ballast box.  It could theoretically be pretty far away if need be, since no ignitor is involved, being probe start.  Would it be morally wrong to stick a clear 1979 Westy Lifeguard in there and put it in nightly service somewhere? 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on November 30, 2016, 05:34:26 PM
If it's 240V it will either have two hots (separate phases...) or two hots with a neutral, if the PC socket is wired for 120V. To change the PC socket to 240V, you just move the neutral over to the second hot (but make sure to use a 208-277V (red) or 120-277V (blue) photocell if you wire the PCR for 240V. But that's if it's 240V... If it has a PC socket odds are it's 120V or 240V (i can pretty much guarantee it, though RIDOT's lights here are 277 I think and they have PCs...) Two coils means it's likely not 240V, since they could have used a choke. Probably 120V...

If the fixture has a NEMA tag then odds are it's PCB-free but check the date on the cap to make sure. As long as you clean out the fixture before powering it up and make sure the ballast and gear are DRY or else a lot could go wrong. Since it doesn't get below freezing where the light is (right?) you shouldn't have to worry about water freezing in between the coils and busting the varnish. But just test it a good ten feet from any buildings (not too far though, or the voltage drop of the extension cord will make the fixture struggle to start; use the fattest cord you have to wire it if you want to go far from the house).

Anyway, odds are that it will work fine but if anything fried, the ignitor might have suffered corrosion damage. Nothing catastrophic would happen right away. Could take up to a few hours depending on what the damage is.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on December 01, 2016, 02:20:01 PM
If you have a kill-a-watt or just any AC ammeter, stick it on during testing and compare the actual current with the rated current. If the actual current is a lot higher than the rated current, there might be a problem with either the ballast or the cap and you should get it fixed before continuing.

Personally, I don't like using low wattage lamps in a medium fixture but I guess you could stick your 175w MH ballast in if the original ballast didn't work. Lifeguards are pretty hard to come by for me, so I prefer using modern MV lamps personally. Especially if you're going to run it dusk to dawn.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 01, 2016, 05:42:26 PM
Oh, OK, I'll stick in a POS Chinese Regent I have...and when it dies, in goes the Lifeguard.  LOL.  Thanks for the Kill A Watt suggestion, may have to try that!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 01, 2016, 10:36:58 PM
Yeah I agree, I don't like using small wattage lamps in larger fixtures but I guess there's nothing wrong with it. Especially if it's all you have. If anything, the M-400A will produce less glare than a small fixture with a 175W lamp since the lamp kinda gets "lost" in the fixture lol.

If you don't end up keeping the light I'll take it for sure, but don't know if it want to have that thing shipped. It would weigh a ton! Plus a fixture that size is a PITA to box up, trust me. I have a M-400A2 boxed up for Darren and the thing was a nightmare to box up. I made my own box out of a bunch of smaller boxes lol. It's been in my basement for like two years now boxed up and ready to ship. The newspaper packing material has probably all settled now lol. I actually got so used to it down there I didn't  even think of it until now... I'll have to message him and see what's up. I know he wanted to wait a while since the CAD has plummeted in value compared to the USD ($1 CAD is equal to $0.75 USD currently) so it doesn't make sense money-wise for him to pay right now. I already sent the glass separately, which was blown into a million pieces unfortunately. The intent was to box it separately so it would be better protected but I guess that backfired. In my defense though Darren said the box looked like it fell off the truck or something lol. It was all smashed in. The lamps I sent wrapped in foam inside the refractor both survived though...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 02, 2016, 02:52:14 AM
I'd probably build a plywood or OSB crate for something that heavy, to the width/length of the fixture so it's wedged in there, and still pack the heck out of the refractor and a lamp (since I'd have no future need for a 250w HPS lamp).  Would trade for that fiberboard 2X40 preheater if you get it.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 02, 2016, 05:38:22 PM
Can you imagine the cost of shipping that though? Probably like $150. :o

BTW, had a second round of scores at the Restore today (the second one; the one I've been to once before).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 03, 2016, 12:23:09 AM
I saw that!  I got a mogul socket today (bought it awhile back but it arrived) and tested the 175w mercury lamps I had!  I actually have the clear Lifeguard set up as a general light source!  Not exactly code compliant with an exposed HID lamp indoors and a CWA core and oil ballast kit sitting out in the open with open wire nut splices, but I won't leave it lit unattended and will dismantle it over Christmas break when they do inspections, since I'm sure the fire marshall wouldn't exactly "approve".  (unless, of course, we have a really cool one that is, it's possible, who's into this sort of thing, I could get a notice that hey that's really cool!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 05, 2016, 09:02:24 PM
I forget where we were talking about my shed leaking so I can't continue the conversation there but I'll pick it up here: We got an inch of snow overnight, which turned to rain and the melted today (nothing left now). So, since there was an inch of snow on the roof that turned to water, if there was a leak somewhere there would CERTAINLY be water in the shed. Dry as a bone. Looks like the culprit is the door. I took xmaslightguy's suggestion and closed the door with me inside and saw there is a crack of light on the bottom of the door. There's also a decent size crack of light coming in the top half of the side of the door (above the knob; I must have installed the door crooked or something...) but unless the rain was blowing at a complete 90 degree angle I think it would miss it. The big concern is probably along the bottom, which an awning likely won't solve (would have to be a big awning lol). So I'll have to see if I can find some weatherstripping for the bottom of the door and see if that solves the problem. Could add some toward the top of the side of the door while I'm at it...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on December 05, 2016, 10:54:34 PM
@Mike:
Really doesn't take much wind to blow rain against a wall enough for for it to make it in some little crack like that. I bet those spaces you saw are indeed the issue!
You should be able to get the neededweatherstripping at any HD/Lowes/etc :)

---
We're supposed to get snow starting tomorrow... and its also gonna get f'ing cold (that means down near zero or maybe even below)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 05, 2016, 11:20:53 PM
Found a good deal on colored S11 bulbs.  Might get a case of 60, for all of 16 bucks and free shipping!  Would like some for my collection, plus I'm now thinking of putting festoon strings somewhere...maybe my office/lighting hobby room, or the shop/garage.  Really considering pulling the trigger on a case! Might also use the red S11s in a particular application, a bedside lamp. Red light to not halt melatonin production in the middle of the night..."Blue" light stops melatonin production, a sleep-inducing hormone.  And I just want some, period.

Ugh, I hate the leaks in a brand new building or roof!  We have some of those "decorative" asphalt shingles back home, and the new roof (I'm talking just now five years old) was already leaking within a year or two, pisses me off!  The shingles were given to us by a friend of my dad who had more than he needed for his re-roofing of his house, so I don't think we could file a warranty claim, but they always claim it's like a 25-30 year roof.

Xmaslightguy, it's...get ready for it...-26F outside at 7:20 PM here.  Sun set at like 3PM, dark by like 4!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on December 06, 2016, 01:51:55 AM
@GEsoftwhite100watts:
Sounds like a deal on those bulbs, might as well go ahead & grab them!

Thats waaay too f'ing cold. Its dark by 5 here, so guess we get a hour more daylight in the evening than where you are (still not enough..i hate the short daylight hours of winter :lol: )

Even though its late night now,  Your post reminded me to go outside and set the dimmer on the fluorescents I use for Xmas to a higher level. (was gonna do it earlier but got busy & forgot (if its set too low in real cold they will try to start but not quite make it, then the EOL protection kicks off))
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 06, 2016, 01:46:44 PM
I need to do some "cold" experiments for sure!

Let's just say a 175w /DX MV is a really nice wake up light on our dark mornings! 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 16, 2016, 11:03:15 PM
Hmm well three of the 8 fresnel cans at my college have failed. I did the math and, if they ran 24/7, they actually made it to over 1000 hours. Five are still going, so that's a 37.5% failure rate at 1000 hours, essentially spot-on, though the rated life is based on 3HR/day usage.

Anyway, I'm expecting more to fail over christmas break so when classes resume in late January I'll take inventory of what ones no longer work and I'll get some $1 32W CFLs from the ReStore (which I conveniently discovered like days AFTER relamping the cans with the halogen lamps) and replace the dead halogens and hit the remaining lights I didn't get to last time. Seeing that no one questioned what I was doing at all I feel it's safe. I'll even bring the taller step-ladder lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on December 19, 2016, 01:07:33 AM
Its gotten down below zero the past couple nights (so its 'f---ing cold' :lol: ) I shoulda fried some EOL lamps out on the patio, since it always makes for a good 'show' :) but I didn't have the ambition or time - between getting everything setup & actually doing it, that's easily a couple hours.

-----
I have a strip of 1xF32 fixtures (programmed start ballasts) across the porch. As a test last night I flipped them on...half of them failed to light. ofcourse I can't blame the things, I wouldn't want to work in such temperatures either. .. .LOL
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 19, 2016, 09:13:39 AM
LOL at the strips. Do you think instant start would work better in the cold? I'm sure they'd probably start better but would it kill the lamps, having them running in the extreme cold without enough mercury vaporized?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on December 20, 2016, 01:40:04 AM
In this case I'm guessing it was simply tripping the EOL protection on the programmed start ballasts.
I also have some  2xF32 electronic RS that I was using as xmas lights... I think only 1 out of 5 lit (those I know is a case of tripping the EOL protection...but I also forgot to go out  & turn up the brightness before it snowed/got cold...there was a slight temptation to go out on the out snowy roof in that freezing cold but I decided against it LOL)

But for your question: Yep, instant-start would do better in the cold (I've tested), but even it has limits - once you get to I think it was -10 or less they have issues starting - known because I've tested :) but thats also  ungrounded - I'm sure in a proper grounded fixture (like the PS ballasts are in) they'd be good to -10 or maybe even a bit less.

Believe it or not, the cold like that doesn't seem to kill lamps on IS, because thinking about it I have one F32 IS light as a security light that runs every night from midnight to something like 5am, & has had the same lamp for a number of years...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 27, 2016, 10:30:41 PM
I know of a neat old slimline at a friend's place I may be able to rescue, it's practically part of my family heritage!  It's in a barn that belongs to some former neighbors of my late mother, property she had before I was born.  It's sort of a 4 lamp version of the troffers at the bowling alley in Fairbanks, AK I came across, sans diffuser.  One ballast (inner lamps) is out.  Plunger type sockets too!  Amazingly the 60w lamps weren't striating in the cold barn!  Kinda rusty but worth saving, I have a soft spot in my heart for unique slimline fixtures!

He also had an ancient Fisher vacuum tube stereo receiver, which still works, and sounds wonderful on FM!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 29, 2016, 09:52:09 AM
So, some asshole stole some of our xmas lights last night. >:( ???
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 29, 2016, 12:43:15 PM
Literally, un-stapled?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 29, 2016, 02:26:02 PM
Staples? What are talking about?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 29, 2016, 08:01:14 PM
As in ripped off the house?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 29, 2016, 11:28:46 PM
Oh? I have vinyl siding so there's no way staples would work LOL. I went out after my comment to check and see what actually was stolen and turns out they only took the projector/spotlight we had shining on the wall of the house that projected "Merry Christmas" on the front of our house. Everything else was left untouched for whatever reason. They didn't even take the 12V adapter for the unit (one of those wall wart things) so it's useless to them (unless they buy a new wall wart). I had the wallwart in a ziploc bag since it was rated for dry location use only (despite being the OEM adapter for an outdoor-use-only spot light. Go figure...). I hammered a 2X2 wood baluster into the ground and the spotlight thing went over it and you turned a thumbscrew to lock it onto the baluster. I taped the bagged adapter to the baluster and had the extension cord come out of the bag back over to the house.

From what I can tell, the crook had yanked the thing out of the ground and took off with it, still all plugged in. There was quite a bot of slack on the cord, but I had actually weaved the extension cord around the railing at our front steps so the cord must've gotten tangled so they just cut the bagged wallwart & extension cord off and took off with the actual spotlight. There were a few thinks knocked over in the yard, likely caused by the "struggle" with the extension cord. I just wish I caught them and had an airsoft gun to scare them off with or hurt them (but not kill them and not injure them severely; the sting of an airsoft pellet would be enough to send them off running; nothing in my yard is worth enough to stick around after that lol)

I want to know why someone took it. Like, what's the point? It's not like it's a big expensive thing. We've had it for years but this was the first year we had put it out. I'm so pissed someone took it. Nothing worse that knowing someone was trespassing on your property and vandalized it, even though it was our front yard (not like they hopped a fence or something, but still, the fact that it happened in my suburban neighborhood is a little disconcerting). I keep looking out my window every ten minutes or so to see if anything else goes missing. I noticed my neighbors-across-the-street's light-up snowman also went missing. Not sure if they took it inside and I didn't notice til today or if it got stolen as well. They do still have xmas lights on one of their trees so I assume they were robbed as well.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 01, 2017, 01:37:08 AM
Asshole...

I can only imagine them calling the cops on you for 'assaulting' them with the air soft. LOL.

Guess next year you're gonna put up an electric fence around your yard?  :o
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 01, 2017, 11:25:12 AM
LOL if I get a job with the electric company I won't have the time to string the xmas lights so it'll be up to my younger brother or dad (so we won't have any xmas lights up... lol)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 01, 2017, 01:29:56 PM
You're actually considering that? Cool!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 01, 2017, 10:05:15 PM
That's what I'm going to school for; to be a lineman. Starting in early February I'll be at National Grid's training facility in Massachusetts every Friday from 8AM to like 3 or 4PM. It's a big place.  Here's part of it.  (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.2214498,-71.7727088,3a,18.7y,169.82h,91.8t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szXtL1BiMaue_-E7LFVziMg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1?hl=en)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 14, 2017, 07:07:27 PM
I went to ReStore today!  (I don't have one locally in Fairbanks, but I have the dump, which yields the same kind of stuff, there's a reusable items area there thankfully)

There were probably 10-15 boxes of 100w GE Reveals.  I bought two...would have gotten more but I only have so much space in my suitcases!  I also got a Yorkville "Question Mark" style CFL and a Philips 75w T19 bulb.  T19 does work!  There were more of the Yorkvilles but here again I could only fit so much with me on the plane!  I also got a brand new (albeit short-lead) .73a Mark III ballast as a spare for my vintage F40 shop lights back home, so they can stay HPF!  There were lots of bulbs I'd have grabbed but here again, space in suitcases was my limit! 

And I'm picking up a military 5 ton eventually, I found one I'm gonna buy.  Kinda excited about that as well.


Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on January 16, 2017, 12:54:43 AM
Nice finds, I have a Hitachi version of the Yorkville CFL. I believe the Yorkville ones are rebranded Hitachi ones. I'd run mine more but it's 220v 50Hz. I also went to Restore today, I picked up some LED exit sign retrofit kits and a couple of PL 13 wall lights.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 16, 2017, 10:58:30 AM
Agreed, nice finds! LOOOOVE those T-shaped Phillips and westy lamps. The T-shaped incandescents at the BT-topped Duro-Test incandescent lamps are my favorite. I also love A21 inside frost 100W lamps.

I'm getting a bunch of street light goodies from Steve (member slz) today. I'll post PLENTY of pics. ;D The lot included three fixtures, a few doors, and a few refractors. Two of the three fixtures are 175W MV and the other is 70W HPS.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 19, 2017, 05:00:43 PM
I also picked up some generic store brand GE-made Hungarian neodymium halogens at Fred Meyer in the clearance area, a damaged pack with only 3 bulbs. I posted pix on LG but think a cross between the now-discontinued GE "Basic" or "Standard" line and GE "Reveal".  I swore I'd never buy the halogens again with as good as the current LEDs have gotten (GE and TCP are my favorites currently) but these were a neat, unusual kind I thought.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on January 24, 2017, 12:23:23 AM
Noticed something interesting the past week, some of the LED fixtures installed as part of a changeout in July 2015 failed and got spot replaced with HPS AEL 125s. I noticed two newly installed ones where a LED used to be. Seems like they're spot replacing with new fixtures as they were all FCO.

Another thing I noticed is that they're spot replacing any failed wireless controls on the LEDs with standard PCs.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 24, 2017, 01:44:25 PM
Interesting!  So much for the long lifetime!  :8)

Wireless controls...so they're all centrally controlled?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 24, 2017, 04:43:32 PM
@ Joe: I wonder if the LEDs were grant-funded and so they can't afford to install new replacements?

@ Andy: the wireless controls allow control of individual fixtures (shut off, turn-on, dimming, flashing, etc) from a laptop or something. Most controls do have a standard photocell incorporated so if communication is lost the light will still operate dusk-to-dawn. The wireless nodes tend to have an internal kWh meter too, so individual lights can be metered (thus the power company can bill for actual usage versus estimated usage, which is traditionally how it is done). They also have GPS tracking, which is creepy in a way (if you steal a LED light with one of those wireless nodes, remove the node from the fixture before taking it lol) but they supposedly use it to track the exact location of a burned out light versus a pole number and street name. They can put the GPS coordinates of the light into their truck's GPS and it will direct them right to the light. These nodes also have battery backup which allows the node to communicate with the central system in the event of a power failure (so if you disconnect a light and take it home, it can still be tracked...).

The nodes can be useful particularly in detecting knock-downs, as the node will show no power going to the fixture and eventually the computer will just loose signal from the node. I've seen a few RIDOT wrecks with the new LEDs (roadkills) and they actually replaced them rather quickly.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 24, 2017, 05:14:28 PM
Seems like a neat concept, and it makes sense considering those smart electric meters nowadays.  What's your opinion of those? I hear both good and bad things.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 25, 2017, 01:42:03 PM
I dislike them. Too much tech for a street light. Plus someone could hack the software if they wanted too. In the near future, these controls will allow the feds to track city vehicles (similar to GPS) and keep neighborhoods under surveillance with cameras and microphones. A clear ACLU issue and kinda scary to think about, but a lot of urban cities are in love with the idea. Providence, RI and Pawtucket, RI want to use this technology when it is developed.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 26, 2017, 03:49:47 PM
We definitely live in the Big Brother era, that's for sure!  To me, it's just too techy, a photocell works just fine!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 26, 2017, 09:45:37 PM
The only cool thing is that they can also be used as wi-fi hotspots for residents in urban areas. So some day in the future, urban areas will probably have "public" wi-fi. But I'd imagine public wi-fi would be a little "dangerous" (hackers, people watching what you're doing, etc.; basically like any public wi-fi you'd find at an upscale coffee shop but larger, thus more prone to issues). I'm sure Verizon and other internet carriers will LOVE the day people no longer have to pay for internet access lol. There will probably be lots of law suits filed lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 27, 2017, 08:55:46 PM
 So I recently won the lighting lottery...  (http://www.lighting-gallery.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-130135) Well, not really. They're just modern HPS lights but only $60 for all that! The earliest I'll be able to pick them up is February 4th or 5th. Hopefully the seller doesn't back out of the deal.

Initially I was only interested in the two mounting arms and offered $40 for the two of them and the seller counter-offered $60, but for the WHOLE LOT! I was like "Aw HELL yess!" The only drawback is that it's a 90 minute drive (which is a trip to the store for a lot of people but us Rhode Islanders consider anything more than a half-hour away a road trip lol). Plus I don't know if the lights even work but I'll open them up at the guy's place and inspect the insides before I pay him (mostly because I don't want to bring a light with a bird nest or living creatures into my car! Fortunately since it's winter there won't be any live bees in the lights lol)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on January 27, 2017, 11:37:16 PM
Yeah a small portion of the costs was from a grant but they were mostly paid for from city coffers. I noticed a couple more of dead LEDs. It seems the fixtures installed in July 2015 have a higher failure rate than the ones installed in spring 2014 from my observations.

Nice lot! Hopefully you're able to get them.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 28, 2017, 11:11:46 AM
It's hard to tell if fixtures have failed here or if they're turned off by the wireless nodes (intentionally or not). Cranston is the only municipality out of like seven to not use the wireless nodes. I've noticed less then half a dozen LED failures in Cranston. All but one simply do not work. That one in question was strobing like a horror house strobe light. Talk about ANNOYING! I tried to take a video of it, but my cellphone didn't even pick up on the flicker. But it was nauseating!

Yeah I'm hoping to snatch up these guys! I'm mostly interested in the two arms and the spare refractors and photocells and lamps but I also have an interest in the flood light. I'm probably going to trade the M-250R2s for other fixtures since I already have a few M-250R2s.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on January 29, 2017, 10:27:38 PM
Yeah the M-250R2s would make good fixtures to trade or resell to new collectors that are looking for just any streetlight. I wonder if they're former NGrid lights since they're all GE.

Hmm, the LEDs here tend to fail off, I don't recall seeing one strobing. The wireless controls sometime fail to stuck on for a few days and then start operating normally again. I'm not sure if they auto reset or have to be reset manually.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 30, 2017, 12:12:53 PM
It would be cool if they were NGrid lights but they're from Connecticut so they're likely Connecticut Power & Light (now Eversource, the company Antstar85/Tony works for) fixtures. CP&L was big on GE fixtures too.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on January 31, 2017, 05:40:48 PM
Ahh, I guess that makes sense. Still a neat find, especially the arms. I have a fair bit of cobras but I've yet to find a real streetlighting arm, although I haven't really tried since I kinda don't want to deal with find a place to store a 8-10' tapered e arm lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on January 31, 2017, 08:30:52 PM
LOL yeah virtually all the arms in your area are 8ft or 10ft. They used 8ft underbraced upsweep, 10ft tapered, and 12ft truss very commonly but most arms here are some variety of 6ft arm. There are some 4ft arms left from the incandescent days but not many. they left the aluminum arms but replaced all the rusty steel ones when they either went MV in the 70s or 80s or when they went HPS in the 90s.

Currently I have two 30" long NEMA arms, two 24" NEMA arms, one 4ft cantilever arm, one 6ft cantilever arm (identical to an 80s Narragansett Electric arm), one 6ft upsweep arm (my only 2" arm; a brand new 2015 NGrid HAPCO) and an arm about 30" long. It was another 6ft 80s NECo arm but the previous owner chopped it down to ~2.5ft for whatever reason. So that makes the arm tilted way upward, which would be good for installing my OVX on with a FCO glass to use as a glarebomb flood light lol.

After this score I'll have eight street light arms and one flood light arm. I'm picking these up Saturday morning! I'll probably get picks Sunday since I'm getting these lights before going to work so it'll be kinda late by the time I get home. I wish it wasn't so cold out so I could clean these puppies out but it'll have to wait til it gets warmer. I cleaned my M-100s and AE 113 outside with the hose when I got them and I couldn't feel my hands lol. I had cut them all up too from accidentally scraping my knuckles against burrs on the castings. Didn't feel it when it happened but the blood was getting all over the place so I was making more of a mess trying to clean them lol. I ended up going inside and putting band-aids on the cuts and then just rewashing the lights more carefully.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 02, 2017, 05:16:59 PM
Here, some of our LED waffles from like 2008 have greened out almost like clear mercury, no joke!  There's also lots of recessed MV squares at places like health clinics, gas station convenience marts, etc. still in use around Fairbanks.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 03, 2017, 07:42:04 AM
There haven't really been any LEDs around long enough here to see what happens though the most common thing I see is they just go out completely or strobe/flicker dimly. The bigger ones with more than one driver sometimes go half-out. Part of the reason why LED took a little longer to catch on here is there might not have been financial incentives from National Grid at the time. NGrid only recently (as of January 7, 2017) added LED street lights to their rate tariff for lease lights (before that NGrid only installed HPS lights; they'll now install LEDs for cities under certain restrictions). But now that cities can buy ownership of their lights from NGrid, I suspect that few if any cities will actually have NGrid install LED lights.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 03, 2017, 12:46:58 PM
All ours were city-owned until recently, but state-owned lights were still HPS.  MV was ditched quickly in favor of HPS here because HPS starts more reliably in extreme cold.  Drive around town on a -50F evening and you'll see many private yardblasters aren't lit, those poor lamps just don't want to start when that cold!  Granted, neither would I.  Despite living in Fairbanks I hate snow and cold. 

Fellow LG member Icefoglights was telling me awhile ago even the state is starting to play with LED too  :o
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on February 05, 2017, 02:55:26 AM
All the city of Toronto used to have a lot of braced S arms in the MV days, paired up with a remote ballasted MV. They replaced those arms in around 1990 with aluminium 8' tapered e arms when they replaced everything with HPS. One street near me still has a quite interesting selection of arms though, there's 3 12ft double guys, 5-6 braced S arms and some 1970s steel tapered e arms (surprisingly quite rare here). Of course everything is now LED but a couple years ago there was a quite interesting mix of OV-15s, 25s 125s, OVFs, and Unidors.

The first HPS lights were installed here in 1967 but for the most part MV was installed until the late 70s when HPS was used instead. The existing MVs were changed out between 1990-1993. Incandescents stayed until 1996. The first LED was installed sometime in Fall 2009 but the mass refits didn't start until late 2013. The MTO was a bit late with adopting LED, the first I've seen installed was in 2014 and for the most part the freeways are still HPS highmast.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 05, 2017, 03:03:03 AM
We have lots of vintage arms here too!  For instance: https://www.google.com/maps/@64.8368577,-147.7847925,3a,33.3y,230.13h,107.93t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sEGhpK9oSeiv-F07Zlnzp7g!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DEGhpK9oSeiv-F07Zlnzp7g%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D229.813%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

and

https://www.google.com/maps/@64.8401199,-147.736428,3a,15y,30.5h,96.14t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sg7jR6mfHIRPuMVEnc71X1A!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3Dg7jR6mfHIRPuMVEnc71X1A%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D204.52676%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 14, 2017, 02:00:03 PM
Well, Mike, I'm officially into the driving portion of my driver's ed...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 14, 2017, 08:29:53 PM
[scrolling over to the far right to click the REPLY button because Andy stretched the page out with his link...] :P ;D

Good luck! It's pretty easy. Afterall, there's plenty of idiots on the road so it can't be all that hard lol. As long as you don't panic you won't have any issues. If you forget to do something, just say something like "Oops I forgot to ____" so the instructor knows that you are aware of your mistake. Otherwise the instructor might be under the impression that you are totally oblivious that you made an error (and you might make an error you don't recognize; I had forgot to put on my hazards when I reversed along a curbside and didn't realize it until after I had finished the test but I still passed since that was my only error). The hardest thing for me is coming to a full and complete stop at STOP signs and counting t three before proceeding. Stop signs are so overused in Rhode Island to deter speeding that I've developed an immunity to them lol. Unless it's a "legit" stop sign at a major intersection or at the end of a street I'll just slow down to see if anyone is coming and then just pass through the intersection.  Cranston is infamous for 3-way stop signs like this on main "cut-through" streets like the one with the yellow lines. Note that the street terminating on the left is a DEAD END so there is no legitimate reason for the stop sign at all.  (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7675236,-71.5025474,3a,38.5y,137.27h,82.41t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-eIifQCUfm1TQb867eBJSA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en)

In fact, they did a news story saying that almost half of the STOP signs in Cranston are "illegal" in the sense that they were not approved by the city council or a traffic engineer. Basically residents complained about speeding traffic in a neighborhood so they'd just go out and plop stop signs at every intersection with no traffic study conducted.  It was a big enough story to be published in the NY Times.  (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/30/us/30stop.html) Anytime RI makes national news it's for something bad lol.  Here's an article about them "legalizing" the undocumented signs.  (http://patch.com/rhode-island/cranston/675-illegal-stop-signs-about-to-be-legalized) I wish they would have taken them down lol. They're actually installing more now too. :8) Of course, after we get big snow storms my friends and I skim the city looking for knockdowns lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 14, 2017, 10:16:09 PM
Yeah, I admitted it whenever I got confused.  After I get my normal class C or whatever it is I'm going for a Class B CDL first thing so I can then legally drive my 5 ton I'm getting with no ifs, ands, or buts, especially in California, which is really strict on commercial or triple-axle vehicles.  I'd post a picture but still don't know how to do it in here.  Incidentally the truck is from the same Nat'l Guard unit that was in the county I grew up in in California, and even as surplus it sits in a friend's son's backyard in my old hometown.  Another funny tie in, the guy was stationed in Fairbanks in the early '70s! So it's almost the perfect truck for me considering its history.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 14, 2017, 10:44:38 PM
To upload a pic to the forum it has to first be uploaded to another site like flickr or something. Then you can link it in (img] [/img) coding (replacing parenthesis with brackets.)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 14, 2017, 10:56:29 PM
Ah, I see.  I can try that. 

It will probably actually be my first vehicle, despite being an odd first vehicle.  Ironically, my exact-dopellganger rooomate I had for several months bought one as well in like 2012-2013 as a then-14-year-old high school freshman, no joke!  It was his first vehicle purchase as well though he'd already been given a pickup.  He later daily drove a Deuce and a Half in high school for awhile, on used motor oil! He still has the 5 ton, and a different Deuce.

Amazingly, lots of us enthusiasts even daily drive these. 

On a somewhat sad note, (debated whether or not to tell you, Mike) that M-400A ended up getting scrapped while they were cleaning up their place for a wedding.  They did, however, save the refractor as a rather neat bird bath!  And did I ever mention I'm now a 2X40 preheat fixture owner? That said, I'm still totally interested in that 4-lamp halfpipe.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 15, 2017, 01:21:52 PM
SMH. They could have put it in the shed or garage or something. :P LOL

Yeah if I ever get those lights you can have the bulky 4-lamper though I don't guarantee its functionality. It would be cleaned up regardless though. Chances are that I won't get either though.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 15, 2017, 04:17:41 PM
Yeah, I bet it would work if cleaned up! If not I've convert it to RS if I had to, or even electronic T8, but still a cool light nonetheless.  Maybe electronic T12 so it at least looks the part. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 16, 2017, 12:54:20 AM
I just bought a case of 16 of the early, primitive electronic CFLs on eBay.  15w, 6400K halophosphate daylight, tri tube ones.  Still way more luminous efficiency than the spirals and probably about the same as a 15w LED would be or a little more, 75w equivalent.  I remember seeing that type before the 2700K spirals showed up everywhere overnight in the mid 2000s, now I have some- they always intrigued me as a kid. 

While I've all but gone LED back home (hardly any CFLs left) I could see using these since I have 16 of them.  See just how long they last.  Being early ones, they're primitive, but before the lets cram it in the smallest space for each fixture type craze.  So they might actually last a decent life!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 16, 2017, 10:38:42 AM
Interestingly, I have very little memory of any CFLs other than the warm white spirals that took off in the mid-2000s. Prior to that, virtually every place (residential or commercial) used incandescent lamps or linear fluorescents. I do remember occasionally seeing circline adapters in friends' garages and PL lamps (both the plug-in lamp preheat ones and the integrated ones that are like today's CFLs but with straight tubes)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 16, 2017, 10:43:54 AM
Oh by the way, I think a week from today will be a good score for me as far as MV lamps go! Austin (VHOO) and I are planning to meet up at an electrical supply place near him since he knows a guy there who gives good deals and he said they told him they've got lots of MV lamps there. I'm going to see how far $150-200 will get me. I want about 50 lamps each in 100 and 175W and a few 250, 400, and 1000W lamps. I'm primarily looking for /DX but I'll accept small quantities of clear, /C, or /W lamps if they have some of those too. Not spending more than $200 including the tip though. Just can't afford more than that. I only make $150-200 each week and I'd like to save up to eventually buy a home so I can't keep spending like crazy, though saving up a supply of MV lamps is important to me.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 16, 2017, 01:53:41 PM
Go for it! Worst comes to worst you can eBay it all for outrageous prices in the future!  It's nice having hobbies you can sell out of to get out of though, lighting isn't necessarily the best one of those!  For instance, I'm getting into military vehicles but in the future could sell all my trucks and get out of the hobby.

Buying a home...in RI? Elsewhere?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 17, 2017, 03:47:43 PM
Yeah though I actually don't think lighting is as lucrative of a hobby as antique vehicles or other hobbies out there. I just don't think lighting is a popular enough hobby. Some rare collection items would probably sell quite fast and for a decent price but the majority of items you'd probably have a hard time selling for anything more than you got it for. In general I'd say it's not an appreciable asset like a house or antique vehicles. You'd make some money off it (but you could make "some money" by selling anything really) but unless you have some really rare and historical pieces you couldn't retire off it. There's just too few individuals out there interested in old lighting. Of lighting, traffic signals are probably the most lucrative as far as selling pieces go. Some signals sell for big bucks. If lighting was a sport, traffic signals would be golf (a rich person's sport) lol.

I'm hoping to stay within the general area I live in. Be it Rhode Island, eastern Connecticut, or southern Massachusetts. I want to live in a rural area but not be more than a 20 minute drive from stores and the freeway. I don't want to live way out in the sticks lol. Places in RI like West Greenwich, western Coventry, Exeter, Foster, or Hopkinton appeal to me (though many homes are very expensive in those areas except for the run-down shacks on 1800s and early 1900s farmland that I have no interest in living in; I want a house from the 60s or newer). Ideally I'd like to work overhead distribution for National Grid in RI but I'd be willing to work for NGrid in southeastern MA or Eversource in eastern Connecticut.

Today was my first class at NGrid's training facility and I'm already in love with the place. About half of the facility had those 2-lamp louvered "Target" troffers, as I call them (the troffers they use at Target with the 2X F32T8s on HBF) and the other half of the building has 2X4 lensed troffers (3X F40/RS, with the center lamps switched separate in the classrooms) and 2X2 U-bend T12 troffers. There's also wrap lights, some of which are F40/RS and others that are F32T8. All the highbays are T5/HO replacing what I assume was originally MH. One of the interior shops has mock pole sets up with equipment (all real stuff; poles and cable and other cheap stuff are all new and large more expensive stuff like transformers, capacitor banks, etc are all decommissioned items). One thing that caught my eye was a nice 100W HPS GE M-250R2 (NOS) on a steel 1-1/4" cantilever arm. It's got the thin narrow "10" on the NEMA tag, so the light is no later than the early 2000s. The photocell was wrapped in tape to make it a shorting cap but the light was turned off. I also saw a sealed-in-the-box GE M-250R2 up on a shelf with a HPS lamp in a sleeve on top of it and on a lower shelf I saw two more M-250r2s, a 70W one on a damaged short arm and another (unknown wattage) on a 6ft tapered elliptical which appeared to have some damage on the mounting flange.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 17, 2017, 06:50:33 PM
Come to Fairbanks, Mike! You can live out in the suburbs in a '70s or '80s house, yet be no more than an hour from Suburbia and every chain franchise you can imagine. If you're used to East Coast winters the subzero temps might not be too much of a stretch. 

I just bought a crap ton of 100w bulbs on eBay:  GE Enrich 100w, GE Basic 100w, and GE Crystal Clear 100w, the clears in case quantity.  Might get a case of the 60w clears later as well.  I had lots of 60w bulbs but not many 100s until now.  Mind you I use all LED but you can just never have too many 40/60/75/100w bulbs.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 17, 2017, 09:44:30 PM
Nah that's way too far. I don't want to be far from my family and where I grew up and it would cost a fortune and a half to transport all my lighting "junk" across the country lol.

Awesome score on the incandescent lamps! Yeah when I get my own house I probably won't use very many of the incandescents I stockpiled. I saved up most of them in hopes of passing them on to future collectors that I may meet. Once LEDs get down to CFL price levels (in many cases they already have) I'd probably just switch over to them exclusively. Only thing I regret is not buying any clear incandescents at all. All the ones I bought were soft white or "frosted" (aka Sylvania's "fake" soft white lol). I also didn't stock up on many 75W incandescents. Basically all 60W and 100W. Oh well. I save like 100 or so lamps so that's gotta count for something.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 18, 2017, 01:02:09 PM
Hey Mike, there's a bunch of GE clears in 100w and 60w on eBay.  I might even get a case of the 60s.  Or I'd trade some of mine for something else perhaps.

I should also stock up on 75w bulbs but my budget also includes other things besides lighting...LOL.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 18, 2017, 03:38:24 PM
2nd driving session done.  Most of it on the freeway this time.  I hated the merges and lane changes but was otherwise fine. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 18, 2017, 09:31:06 PM
Yeah people can be jerks when you're trying to merge over. You're supposed to move over a lane to allow people to merge on but a lot of people just hit the gas to try and pass them. I never drive in the far right lane unless I'm just merging on or taking the next exit to avoid that. Since most freeways in RI are only 2-lane per direction, it means I'm a "passing lane hog" lol. But I go fas enough where most people don't get up behind me and if they do I move over to let them pass. I HATE people who are in the left lane and they're going SLOOOW. They're passing someone in the next lane at like 1MPH faster (still at or below the posted speed limit) and they slow everyone down because then both lanes are clogged.

When you pass someone, you need to gas it up to at least 10MPH faster than the person you're passing to pass the person in a timely manner. People don't get that there's other people on the road that want to get to their destination ASAP with as little interruptions as possible. But you always get that one a-hole in the left lane going the speed limit or slower. :8)

Anyway, one piece of advice I have is never stop or slow down drastically when merging onto a freeway because you'll NEVER be able to get going again. It's a lot harder to get a car from zero to 65 than it is to go from 30 to 65. People will generally not want you to hit them (I gotta use the word generally because there might be that one jackass out there who wants a "new car" from insurance money lol) so if you're assertive enough people won't screw with you. Timid drivers get nowhere because other drivers will walk all over you. Sometimes if there's no break in the traffic (but it's not backed-up) I'll just continue driving in the breakdown lane with my left blinker on and then someone almost always lets me in, or I can squeeze in between two cars. As long as you keep moving you'll do fine. A cop won't give you any crap for driving in the breakdown lane as long as you don't do it any longer than you have to and don't use it as a "travel lane" (just using it to help you merge on). Well-designed merges will have a lane that extends out a bit to give you room to ride beside traffic to squeeze in.

Driving on the freeway is probably my favorite place to drive. Not big five-lane-per-direction freeways but 2- or 3-lane-per-side freeways with light to moderate traffic. My second favorite place to drive is anywhere without traffic or frequent stops. I like to just coast along at my own pace without getting stuck behind a slow driver or getting tailgated by "a faster Mike" lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 18, 2017, 09:48:17 PM
LOL, we had someone who was being a slowpoke, causing a 3-4 car slowdown...in the right lane! One embarassing thing I did:  I merged through an interchange from one freeway to another, found myself in the left lane (curvy on-ramp) and started to move to the right lane, but forgot to signal and my instructor thought I'd totally lost the concept of signaling to signal a lane change.  LOL.  I was conciously thinking I didn't want to be impeding traffic in the left lane, being I was doing only about 50-55 since I was just learning, LOL. 

Some of ours are six lanes, three each direction.  That Richardson Highway for one, and since the 2011 Streetviews I swear it's been made into more of a true freeway.  Highest speed limit though is 60, most are 55, even on the freeway.  Many still stop at traffic lights mid-freeway, something I absolutely abhor as someone who now has to drive on them.  For instance: https://www.google.com/maps/@64.8218255,-147.7447463,3a,75y,189.71h,73.02t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1syiSqK38Ibsepq_doUpWVdQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

It's amazing more people don't get killed at these. 

Same here, either really rural roads or the freeway, not clusterf*** city traffic.  Wait until you see downtown Fairbanks, it's awful: https://www.google.com/maps/@64.8436297,-147.7175071,3a,84.4y,49.82h,87.08t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sewQ7frhe_GzXOBb5Wb556A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656



I also ordered a case of the GE 60A/Clear from eBay.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 19, 2017, 07:51:26 AM
Yeah left-side merges and off-ramps are the WORST. I believe all new freeway interchanges are required to have right-hand ramps, at least in RI. They've been phasing out left-hand merges and off-ramps since it impedes the flow of traffic since you get all the little old ladies that go 10MPH lower than the speed limit who get over three exits before the one they're taking so they don't "miss the exit" and it totally messes up the highway. And if you have an right-hand merge close to a left-lane off-ramp like we do in a number of places in RI, it creates a lot of weaving traffic (people who just merged on are trying to cross five lanes of traffic to get to the far left lane to take that left-side off-ramp!).

 I feel your pain on the traffic-light-on-a-freeway thing. As you can see this one causes quite a bit of backup! The median disappears near the light since it becomes a LOOONG left turn lane but you can see a "keep right" sign in the median way down the road, which is where the median picks up again. If you turn the streetview around and "drive" down the freeway some, you'll notice the grass median turns into a jersy barrier and then it becomes a "real" freeway with no more interruptions. Also, notice the exit number starts at 5... RIDOT was originally planning to have the freeway run a few miles longer than it actually does, but due to public opposition due to lack of right-of-way access, they decided to put up a couple traffic lights and end Route 4 prematurely at Rte 1 (the direction of my original link). (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.5613608,-71.4898789,3a,27.1y,158.95h,87.58t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sUEuaghZ3xuB9kbfMbPSaOw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 19, 2017, 10:33:50 AM
Wow that is a perfect example of what driving in Fairbanks/Ft. Wainwright/North Pole is like!  Sometime you will have to come visit and drive that ridiculous stretch of the Richardson Highway through North Pole. 

The best freeway on-ramps are the downhill ones where you get up to speed, like this! https://www.google.com/maps/place/Atascadero,+CA+93422/@35.4975891,-120.6828866,3a,75y,292.59h,90t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s31Qn6yFMKBu4tNmZyxEhYw!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3D31Qn6yFMKBu4tNmZyxEhYw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D297.06372%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x80ecc280d75db9c5:0x7588b611c9760748!8m2!3d35.4894169!4d-120.6707255!6m1!1e1

One of the worst I've ever seen is here: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Atascadero,+CA+93422/@35.4851664,-120.663569,3a,75y,332.09h,91.67t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s22gkze05g8owvIH2ooRQUQ!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3D22gkze05g8owvIH2ooRQUQ%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D347.56827%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0x80ecc280d75db9c5:0x7588b611c9760748!8m2!3d35.4894169!4d-120.6707255!6m1!1e1 And they re-did this about 7 years ago, it used to be worse! From like 2005-2011 this whole area was torn up. If you scale the streetview back to 2008, see what I mean? Where all the heavy equipment is, there was a KFC, a Thai place, and a 76, and across the interchange of Hwy 41 there was a Mobil.  Way back in the day, where the Carls Jr and oil change place are, there was a gas station there too.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 19, 2017, 05:16:56 PM
OK you really need to start using the coding because stretching out the entire page is getting really old. :P you stretched out the last page and now this one too? :( Can you put them in the proper coding? (they don't even work anyway; shows the map version, not streetview because the URL is too lengthy). The coding is: (url=www.url.com)text you want here(/url) Just replace the "(,)" with "[,]".
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 19, 2017, 05:37:09 PM
I can try to remember to do that, I've always had bad luck with it in the past! 

Did another 2 hours today.  Picked me up at 7AM, still dark in Fairbanks with a hint of pre-dawn, so they could also teach me headlights, etc.
Plus it was Sunday morning, meaning hardly any traffic.  Windy, twisty icy roads, and lots of traffic signal practice in downtown Fairbanks, ugh. 
I'm still awful at merging into the turn lanes, etc. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 19, 2017, 07:12:16 PM
Are these driving lessons like something you're paying extra for or are they being provided by the DMV or something? I had taken driving lessons from some guy. We did it since the insurance company gives us a better rate since supposedly I'm a "safer" driver from having these lessons. They were pretty basic though. I actually never drove on the highway during his lessons and never drove at night/not-full-daylight.

My road test was pretty easy. Backed out of the parking spot at the road test building. Drove down a street, stopped at a 4-way stop sign, went straight. Stopped at another 4-way stop and turned left. Parked along the curb and backed up 50ft. Did a 3-point turn mid-block, approached a traffic light. Turned left onto a main 4-lane road and drove straight for a bit and made a u-turn at a traffic light, and drove back to the DMV and backed the car into a parking space. No parallel parking, no freeway driving, nothing really that difficult at all. My road test was in November, so it was chilly but dry and sunny. No snow or ice. So I pretty much had it made lol. The only things the instructor stressed to me was not driving more than a couple MPH over the speed limit (my whole test was in a 25MPH zone, even the main road), stopping fully at stop signs and counting to 3 in my head before proceeding (obviously also checking for traffic), and always look over my shoulder before making a lane change (told me not to rely on the mirrors; making two or more lane changes without turning your head around to check your blind spots was an automatic failure. Same for if you start driving before 3 seconds after stopping at a stop sign. And for driving more than 5 MPH over the speed limit for more than 10 seconds. the rules vary state-by-state so Alaska might be quite different but I think those three rules are generally the same across the board. You'll pass with flying colors I'm sure. Anything you're nervous about just practice practice practice and it will calm your nerves. I's good to be a little nervous/cautious though since accidents tend to happen when people get over-confident and let their confidence cloud their judgement.

I'm going to touch bade with Austin (VHOO) tonight or tomorrow about possibly getting some MVs on Thursday. :D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 19, 2017, 07:48:38 PM
I paid a privately owned driving school for my lessons since (1) I wanted to learn from an official instructor and (2) for cheaper insurance hopefully.
Once I have my "civillian" license I'm going for a Class B CDL though, so I can drive things with air brakes.
We'll see what my road test entails, I know merging/exiting a freeway is on there, ugh...I hate merging.
I've always been decent about the 3-count at a stop sign but it might be less in this state since he was telling me to up and go already. 
This time he had me go through a bagel/coffee drive through since (1) he wanted a coffee and (2) to practice the everyday manuver of a drive thru,
whether at a coffee stand, a bank, a fast food place, drive thrus are everywhere. Also we had to fill up the car so he had me pull into and out of the gas station, pulling even with the pump.
Sweet! Hope you get some goodies!  Lifeguard /W 175w! ;D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 19, 2017, 09:49:06 PM
More good news, I found a 50w MV ballast and a lamp.  Special thanks to fellow LG member Zarlog for the
tipoff on the ballast.  ;D Lamp will be a Westinghouse Lifeguard 50w /DX.  Need fixture ideas now, thoughts?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 19, 2017, 10:03:49 PM
A miniature highbay like my 35W HPS would be pretty cool. If you want I could design and build a fixture for you. A BYOB (bring your own ballast) type deal. You could just give me detailed dimensions of the ballast and location and size of the mounting holes, etc. and I'd predrill everything. It would be built a little different than my mini-highbay light but could be the same concept if that's what you're looking for. You could also build an outdoor light but if you want to use it outside I'd just retrofit an existing fixture since building a weatherproof fixture from existing materials isn't super easy (though it's not impossible). Building a mini highbay is pretty easy and I could probably build one for around $40 or less including paint.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 19, 2017, 10:08:07 PM
Ya know, i just had a thought.  Maybe a marine vaportight/explosion proof fixture? I always liked those. 
Ballast could be in a pull box the fixture is mounted to.
I could also just build a ballast box and plug a table lamp in I suppose.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 19, 2017, 10:55:07 PM
Yeah I suppose you could do that. Didn't even think of that... After my last post I went right to work looking at parts I could use to fabricate a highbay and got  this here.  (http://www.galleryoflights.org/mb/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-21500) Let me know what you think! No obligation of course, but if you do want a McCann Lighting housing for your ballast I'd be happy to build one. ;D It's actually a better design than my own 35w HPS highbay. I might end up redesigning my mini highbay around this design. The ballast is crammed into my mini highbay.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 19, 2017, 11:09:03 PM
Interesting thought, imagine that over a dining room table? 

Fellow LG member Icefoglights suggested a RLM that was also a vaportight, ever seen them?
(if you haven't caught onto this yet, we live in the same area and it's rare that a day passes where we
don't text each other at least once.  He was frankly one of the first people in Fairbanks besides university instructors
or classmates I said more than two words to.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 20, 2017, 09:17:18 PM
 I know exactly what you're talking about! A local Five Guys near me has PSMH ones! Would look neat. You could use it as an entry light. Would be ~100W incandescent equivalent at only 50W usage!  (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.688581,-71.4977788,3a,40.5y,231.5h,86.13t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sotJFWueoYxxc2z--EhIU4Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en)

I'm actually planning on making myself a 50W MV mini highbay light. Won't have the extra cash right now since I'll be dropping some dough on some MV lamps Thursday when I meet up with Austin at Webster Electrical Supply.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on February 20, 2017, 09:50:29 PM
I went ahead & ordered myself a 50w MV ballast as well. I may eventually make myself some sorta little MV fixture with it :) always
wanted something like that.

On the weekend I picked up a 175w MH fixture for $5 at a garage sale .. looks like its had little to no use. (will probably eventually
find its way to the yard even though I'd rarely use it (still makes a good storage spot))

Also got a 1000w MH/HPS ballast at a garage sale. (not sure what I'll do with it, a light like that would be way to expensive to run...
and would be overkill for houseplants or veggies .lol. )

---
edit:
Oh and I picked up a subwoofer & a surround sound receiver both dirt cheap as well.
have yet to test the receiver other than plugging in / turning on.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 21, 2017, 11:05:40 AM
Yeah I might buy myself a 50W MV ballast too. Only problem is that I suspect they might not make 50W MV lamps anymore (can't find them on any manufacturer's websites so I think whatever is left out there now is it) so I wouldn't want to build a fixture that I won't be able to get lamps for. But I suspect most HID lamps will be discontinued in the next 25-50 years anyway.

That Wallpack sounds cool. Yeah I rarely use my two street lights mounted outside but it serves as a place to store them lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on February 21, 2017, 10:40:40 PM
@Mike:
I already have a 50w MV lamp & if I do put something together, I'll eBay a 2nd one :)
I'm not really worried about when the time comes that you won't be able to get stuff like those lamps,
I'm old anyway & probably won't be around by then...

& yep my feeling with outdoor fixtures, is that I might as well store them 'put up' outside even if I rarely use them  :lol: especially true if they're something I got cheap or used.

I added a couple albums here & started re-organizing some of my pic's :)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 21, 2017, 10:51:08 PM
As for hard to find, I'm finding all sorts of late 90s/early '00s stuff on eBay no problem. 

First round of eBay stuff arrived today: GE 100w Enrich (early version of Reveal) and the 16 6400K tri tube 15w CFLs. Pics are in LG. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 22, 2017, 10:01:02 PM
Just bought one of those 50W MV ballasts. When it arrives I will get materials at Home Depot to build a mini highbay. I also bought a lot of three 50W /DX Philips lamps from the 90s for $25 with free shipping.

I also mounted one of my 6ft arms in the backyard in place of the 2ft arm on the deck!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 22, 2017, 11:20:13 PM
Nice! I'm thinking incandescent vaportight for mine. 
I saw the arm pic, awesome!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on February 23, 2017, 12:22:24 AM
@GEsoftwhite100watts:
Yep, stuff of that age should be no problem finding on eBay.


@Mike:
I saw that lot of 3 MV lamps.
I think I'll keep a watch out for a clear one..


----------
Not sure what kinda fixture I'll do (or when)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 23, 2017, 11:12:49 PM
Speaking of MV, I just bought a /DX 175w LifeGuard on eBay.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 27, 2017, 09:20:32 PM
 Listening to the full version of "The People's Court" theme song lol . (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iTqoDH0vFU)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on February 27, 2017, 10:38:57 PM
Went to a meetup of local people into lights (xmas lights) on Sat. Neat as always to attend.
Was talking with one guy there and mentioned I might try making something to control a dimmable fluorescent ballast... he said he never had seen one, so might just have to bring one to the next meetup.


@GEsoftwhite100watts:
Since you like stereo stuff.. I posted a pic of kind of an interesting little unit in the off-topic section of LG today.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 28, 2017, 01:27:18 AM
Mike, this is playing right now.  I bet you've heard this before, am I right? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CB3Gv4oZdWo
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on February 28, 2017, 01:35:20 PM
I actually haven't heard that song (or the band). I like it though! I looked them up and the lead singer of this band was the lead singer for the band Tool, which I'm a big fan of. 8)

I absolutely LOVE the first 10 seconds of  this song.  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1MmU24tVt8)

A couple more bands I've recently started listening to are Dope, Limp Bizkit, Slayer, and Megadeth. the latter two are pretty heavy so might not be something you listen to.

My favorite band (right now anyway) is Mudvayne. I find myself listening to their music all the time now lol. They're on the heavy side and some of their songs are weird (told from the perspective of someone on drugs, namely off their album LD50, which is actually one of my favorite albums of theirs).  This song here (Out to Pasture) is probably one of my favorite songs. I love the music in it, especially between 0:40 and 0:58 and between 2:09 and 2:45. The song is about someone being neglected and ultimately taking his own life "So I'm loading my gun". Pretty powerful song IMO if you look up the lyrics and read them. Gets very angry by the end though. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2as06uV4j8)

 I love this song by them too!  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rP16cHaeeB8) The lyrics are deep and the music is peaceful at the beginning. Once again it get's pretty angry by the end though lol.

 Scarlet Letters is also a deep song lyric-wise. Chad Gray (singer) is one hell of a poet lol. There's very deep meaning to a lot of songs. But a lot of people get turned off by all the yelling. There's a lot of anger of depression in the lyrics, which shows through in his singing. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQzS2-SeJTQ)

 OK Last one I promise lol. This song is killer with the rich language. Still follows the trend of starting slow and building up the anger.  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekn_IZtsS3M)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 28, 2017, 11:14:11 PM
With the crazieness going on in the world today, and with the stuff I'm reading about for a Modern World History class I got this stuck in my head recently and have been listening to it over and over ever since.  Sound familiar? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xxgRUyzgs0
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 01, 2017, 07:28:10 AM
Yep! I love that song. the only song I listen to by them though lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 01, 2017, 12:31:31 PM
Only song I've ever heard by them too...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 01, 2017, 01:25:20 PM
Oh, and this is playing right now, sound familiar Mike? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1fHxPY3TJo
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 01, 2017, 08:51:45 PM
Yep. The beginning of that song is from a movie.  A 1967 cowboy movie. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=452XjnaHr1A)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 02, 2017, 09:15:46 PM
Really sad song when you really think about it. 

This is what's playing right now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hC2tLWMMF38
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on March 03, 2017, 11:02:07 AM
My school tossed out a Lithonia 8' SL strip yesterday, I grabbed the ballast and sockets but left the channel. I don't think I have a immediate use for it and was quite rusty and dusty. Interestingly it had a electronic ballast. It's a older Advance from back when they still used a full sized ballast case.

I also have no idea where on campus it could have came from, this is the first I've seen a real 8' fixture on campus. All the other 8' fixtures even the vintage ones were all tandem F40 fixtures.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 03, 2017, 03:31:58 PM
Hmm Interesting. I have no luck ever finding stuff at my college campus but I had found where my high school stashed removed voc-tech lighting in the boiler room (which was conveniently left unlocked; the other buildings on campus always had their "janitor rooms" under lock and key). I had gotten a couple of ballasts, those 2x2 T5 troffers, my 2X4 parabolic troffer, and I found a partial case of lamps to relamp the dead hallways lights in the hallway connected to the construction shop.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 03, 2017, 03:39:11 PM
I have lots of lamps and even a couple fixtures and a ballast or two that came from my old middle/high school which was and I'm almost certain still is all T12 F40 rapid start!  I literally have about two cases' worth of F40s from that place, all used of course but removed during relamps.  And neat stuff too like GE warm white Mainlighter or Norelco F40CW, neat stuff!

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on March 06, 2017, 09:40:15 AM
Yeah, my school just tosses random stuff out in the basement hallways and it's implied that it's up for grabs once it's in the hallway. Haven't gotten any lamps from school but I've gotten:

High School:
1x F20T12 single lamp industrial
1x F40T12 single lamp industrial

University:
2x LED Exit signs
1x F40 Tandem turret industrial
1x Lithonia F96T12 strip (I ended up getting the rest of it)
100w A23 /DX GE Merc from 1974
Lutron 2x F32T8 dimming ballast although I think it's broken

Secretly hoping they toss out a louvered fixture or a 1x4 drop dish troffer lol. They did however toss out a couple of dead F40/CW mainlighters last year but I passed on grabbing them.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 06, 2017, 10:56:34 PM
From my old middle/high school/the city maintenance department back home
(2) 1X4 troffers
about (2) cases of GE F40WW Mainlighters, used but working.
Several other F40s including Norelco F40CWs, GE Chroma 50, (all pre-'92 for the C50), (1) GE F40CW Mainlighter, several GE Residential Light (But I burned all those out or gave them away, nothing-special lamps), and who knows what else...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on March 08, 2017, 11:14:59 PM
I got some various lamps from veryhighonoutput, and must say the guy knows how to pack stuff for shipping :)

---------------
Also earlier this week I picked up an incandescent post-top fixture at Lowes on clearance for $27, and a  post on clearance for $12 .. I'll be making myself a 50w MV "streetlight" with the ballast I got earlier :cool: (I'll have to figure out something for the ballast - probably a box near the bottom of the post)
I must say for 50w the no-name DX lamp I have is quite bright! I want a clear lamp, but only if cheap off eBay


---------------
I know you saw that little old Jade radio I put in the off-topic section.
I also put a recent-find receiver there too. (probably of no interest to you since its modern stuff :lol: but figured I'd mention it anyway)


---------------
I have a few troffers that came from a local college building.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 08, 2017, 11:20:58 PM
Saw the post top fixture, I saw the same one at my local Lowes and thought about using that style to remote-ballast, but settled for a vaportight instead, one of my all time favorite styles of incandescent fixtures. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 13, 2017, 04:36:36 AM
Doing spring cleaning, I finally realized how many lamps I've acquired while in college so far, it's almost ridiculous.  Or is it?  LOL.

A few are going to a fellow LG/GOL member here once we get a chance to meet again.  It's funny, not just an LG member but now also a good friend.  One of the first people I met here, who also showed me around the area. 

And Mike, I bought some of your absolute favorite lighting product, GE halogens.  53w crystal clear, we'll see how they hold up.  At least they're Hungarian and not Chinese.  Wanna bet on lifetime?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 13, 2017, 09:49:51 AM
LOL yeah I hate those GE halogens. Yeah it's great to have local collectors to talk to. Joe Maurath Jr and I send frequent emails and Tony and I text each other (he actually texted me when he was told about those M-400s; I'll be meeting up with him either sometime this week or something for a trade). And next time I go to that place in Webster, Joe will be coming along for some of the goodies there! :D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 13, 2017, 10:03:12 AM
Fellow LG/GOL member 'Icefoglights' and myself text all the time as well. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 18, 2017, 01:12:13 AM
Speaking of...We got together today for a meet.  Drove around looking at some other light scenery, including in his old neighborhood he grew up in:  An old mobile home park, but many things haven't changed since the late '90s...same lights still there, lots of old mercury NEMAs! 

We did exchange lamps, I gave him some goodies, and he gave me some real gems.

-Sylvania GTE H39KC175/DX from '92, low hours.
-Sylvania GTE H39KC/DX clearbander from '78, also low hours
-Westinghouse 'Lifeguard' H39KC175/DX, fully coated but thin coating, has some hours but still bright...'76 I think.
-GE Bonusline 175w /W.  Don't know the year, will have to ask.  It's an ED28.  Never even seen a /W until this, a real beauty!  Really interesting color, I need to try it next to a Feit Diffused lamp, seems close.  Definitely not like /DX!
-Sylvania 150w Unalux retro lamp for 175w HX mercury ballasts.  Neon filling I think.  MAN that sucker is bright AF.
-And a Cooper/Regent 175w yardblaster which came all the way from Michigan.  Ballast is a little raspy/loud. I need to pick Keif's brain about transformer-varnishing the ballast. 
I'm going to give him back a '98 Sylvania BT28 /DX he gave me some time back, since between lamps he's given me and others I have more 175s, especially /DX, than I will probably ever burn through. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 18, 2017, 02:40:33 PM
Awesome additions! Sounds like you've got a lot of stuff to transport back to home when you leave Fairbanks!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 18, 2017, 02:47:13 PM
Ahg.  Yeah.  I have a ton of stuff to take home now!  I'm getting a mini storage unit here for the summer anyway, so there's not any rush with some of it, but I already have one suitcase full of bulbs, and every horizontal surface is rapidly becoming a magnet for piles of light stuff.  Even some 4' fixtures.

When we met, I was joking, "Well, now I have a few more cubic feet of space with all this out of there" handing off a case of F40s and some other stuff.  "Well, we'll fill it right back up"

As he put it with the yardblaster, "I just kept tripping over this light so I figured maybe you could use it". 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 18, 2017, 03:08:33 PM
Was it that case of /DX Philips Altos that you traded away? Or something else?

Yeah I feel you on that one. When I built my shed I was thinking of going bigger but material-cost-wise it made the most sense to to an 8ft X 8ft shed with ~8ft tall walls. Minimal waste that way. In fact, I only had one trash barrel full of scrap wood, which my uncle gladly burned lol.

When I built my shed I intended for certain shelves to be for fluorescent fixtures and others to be HID but they turned out to all be for HID stuff since I've just gotten SO MUCH of it. Hardly any new fluorescent finds. I don't have much interest in vintage fluorescent tubes (mostly interested in the fixtures and modern-but-good lamps I can use in them) so at Webster I got solely MV lamps but I'll be getting a couple fluorescents for a UK LG member and some HPS lamps for myself next time I go there (Joe Maurath Jr will be meeting me there too!)

But yeah, my shed is filling up fast. Before everything was very spread out neatly in my shed. Now I've got piles of lights and boxes on top of boxes, and my mounting arms for street lights are sorta-nearly piled up in the back corner against the wall along with my 400W HPS GE M-400 and a Rubermaid Tote filled with various HID lamps from Joe. In the corner adjacent to the door I have a few 4ft fluorescents and that big safety switch I got from my friend that demoed a Pizza Hut. The plan is to move the fluorescents to the original shed, where most of my 4ft fluorescents are stored on a loft (a 4X8 sheet of plywood about 6ft off the floor...).

My original plan was to take my shed with me when I move out but not sure if that's really feasible. Obviously it would have to be emptied but not sure if I could have it moved in one piece without disassembling it.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 18, 2017, 03:19:55 PM
I did put a few of those /DX Altos in there but no, it was a reused Sylvania F40CWX case with some of the aforementioned Alto lamps, some GE F40K&B, a Sylvania GTE Design 50 and a GE Chroma 50.  All full mercury except the Altos.

Also gave him a NOS full mercury F20T12/KB still in the sleeve, a used but barely Sylvania made GE branded F15T12/KB, a YorkVille "Question Mark" CFL, some "Syngergizer" PL13 adapters, some SunLite generic 6500K daylight lamps for said adapters, a Philips dimmable EarthLight, a GE Biax 28w tri tube, a 42w Sylvania CapsyLite, and a couple Tungsram bulbs. 

Could you also add on to your shed, toward the rear or one side, even a shed-roof addition?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on March 18, 2017, 05:11:04 PM
@GEsoftwhite100watts:
Sounds like you made some nice MV trades there :)

---
I have only a limited amount of HID stuff.. wouldn't mind getting a couple more streetlights - especially MV or MH (or especially SOX), but overall I'm more into fluorescents and/or Xmas lights :lol:

My biggest issue overall is space (or lack thereof) really could use another shed or something where I could put fixtures/cords/misc stuff in, fluorescent lamps I'd always keep in the house since it gets so cold outside in the winter..
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 18, 2017, 05:15:31 PM
I'm sort of into whatever lighting I can find, except the weird MR16 or Gu10 type halogens or proprietary CFL/LED fixtures.  I mainly like linear fluorescent and there is just something cool about HID indoors.  That said, I often actually look at places that still use HPS/MH as indoor lighting and think they'd look better in T5/HO, but am against retrofitting 8ft slimlines.  LOL.

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on March 18, 2017, 08:11:45 PM
Yep, I have little interest in those oddballs like MR16/GG10 or anything proprietary.
I'm fine with a LED thing, but only would buy if its cheap...
and then its going to be used since to me its not something worth collecting(but might make a cheap, maybe even sorta interesting light...as just that "light")

Most places I've been in that use MH inside, it gives them a very dingy/dull look .. which I assume is a low CRI thing? I don't care for it.
I'm retrofitting 8' slimlines...as long as they only go from F96T12 to F96T8
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 18, 2017, 08:14:28 PM
Yeah, I think it's a CRI thing, and also the fact it's a point light source, leading to lots of shadows.  Yeah 8ft T8 is at least better than the LED junk but the T12 is much more diffused and easier on the eyes. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on March 19, 2017, 11:13:51 PM
I'm mostly into HID and the older or the oddball fluorescents. I'm fine with LED but I consider them to be expendable so I use them in fixtures that don't have much collection value. Low wattage HID is also quite interesting.

I don't mind seeing a retrofitted 8ft slimline as long as they didn't totally butcher the fixture trying to install the retrofit. I prefer retrofitting with 8' T8s but properly installed T8 tandem kits are passable.

I found some pretty nice HID finds at Restore today, got a 175w GE made in US merc from 1998 and a 450w 120v Durotest PS coated SBMV, both appear to be NOS or very lightly used.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 19, 2017, 11:15:56 PM
Same here, I don't mind the T8 retrofits; what I DO mind are the chop jobs.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 20, 2017, 06:31:49 AM
With HID indoors, you often find places way overlit. I think since it's lower CRI you need the extra light to make the store not look dingy? Not sure...

I'm primarily into street lighting (including utility-grade flood lighting and area lighting [aka NEMAs]) but I also like HIDs in general and most magnetic fluorescent fixtures (even some T8s if they're a cool enough design). I also like some traffic signals. Not into specific brands of them but I'd like to emulate RIDOT set-ups, particularly their R-Y-Y 12-12-8 crosswalk set-up.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: ZarlogH46 on March 20, 2017, 08:17:42 AM
I am mainly interested in outdoor and street lighting too. Fluorescent just doesn't interest me that much.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 20, 2017, 07:14:51 PM
I also like low-wattage incandescent street lights too. I have a late 50s Wheeler crescent moon (sometimes called bird claw) shade light. I'd LOVE to get my hands on a radial wave that is in decent shape (not rotted through and tarnished on the underside) but most left out there today are rotting away. Some teenager would throw a rock at the light or shoot it with a BB gun to blow the bulb out for fun and chip off the ceramic coating on the reflector. The exposed steel would rust and eventually rot through. If the chip was on top, water might even collect and the rust might spread all over.

The amazing thing about the glazed ceramic/porcelain reflectors is that after decades of crap building up on them, as long as there are no chips in the glazing, they will come clean as new with a nice soapy soaked cloth (non-abrasive is a must!) and relatively little effort. Painted reflectors or exposed aluminum reflectors with no enclosure (i.e. refractor with gasket) will tarnish. With painted reflectors a new coat of paint solves the problem but with bare aluminum reflectors, other than sanding it down and buffing it out, there's not much you can do. I usually just hit it with some really fine grit sandpaper that's been soaked in water and gently sand it. It usually lifts off most of the tarnishing without leaving huge gouges in the metal.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 31, 2017, 04:33:34 PM
Interesting!  I have several normal metal fluorescent fixtures I'd like to restore.

Mike, Remember how we were joking about rewiring my house?  Well, my dad is about to do just that.  He's living there right now and apparently there is a short circuit someplace.  We have a couple ideas of where it may be but he bought 250' of white #14 and is going to try to replace some of it, getting rid of some of the seven different genres/flavors of wiring in our house.  Loomex without a ground, 70s black NM, Essex white #14 and #12 from the 90s, early '00s white stuff, several different flavors of SJTW, and even some #10 UF direct burial inside the walls. It's a real mess.  At least some of it might have new wire- if not and the problem turns out to be something else, now we have lots of #14. 

If I were him I'd have bought yellow #12, since a lot of it is #12, though I suppose considering the main part of the house branch circuits has never tripped a 20 amp breaker it should be fine.  Some of the branch circuits have 30 amp breakers, the main would trip first if anything happened! 

The stuff done in the '90s was decently done,  I'd say.  But it feeds some older parts of the house that still use other, older genres like '50s-'60s Loomex (and yet the house isn't even that old, it likely came from somewhere else) and some other stuff which isn't very nice.  Opening boxes can sometimes lead to "shocking" (pardon the pun) surprises like the time I discovered we had Loomex live and in use when I opened a box to tag into it for more outlets. 

Some done in the early, early 2000s is JUST OK, the wire isn't secured.  Some of my additions are probably decent, though not exactly code worthy most likely, and some additions of mine were never finished and thus plugged into existing outlets using Romex wire on plugs since I wasn't ready to tear into existing junctions, and would need bigger boxes.

There's even modern, yellow Romex in use in some stuff I've done, but it was all re-used wire I salvaged from another demolition job.  (It was recent stuff though so I figured it was OK). 

With our house, 250 feet of wire might not get you particularly far in terms of rewiring the whole place, but might at least get rid of some of the old or re-used wire.  If it were me I'd use #12 but I suppose I could always pull new wire later for EVERYTHING and I mean EVERYTHING that's #12 yellow.  And redo the breaker board. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 31, 2017, 10:02:51 PM
Hmm yeah I would've gone with 12-gauge too, with 14-gauge used only for lighting and dedicated outlets for the fridge, microwave, etc. Make sure he uses 15A breakers then if he's going with 14awg wire. Is he ripping out the walls and everything too or "snaking" the wires? If he's actually ripping the walls out it might be a good idea to look into the NEC and try to follow that best he can. Even though the codes are probably not enforceable in your area, if he's going through all the effort to rip out the walls and get rid of the old stuff, might as well make it as close to code as possible without going too far out of your way like moving the breaker panel or something. But stuff like separating lighting and receptacle circuits (which isn't really a code thing but just convenience so you don't loose your lights if an outlet gets overloaded) and keep each room on its own circuit (again not really a code thing, just convenience).

One thing that comes to mind is that kitchens are *supposed* to have two 20A circuits supplying countertop space (no lighting on this circuit or outlets outside the kitchen, and stuff like the fridge and wall-mounted microwaves serving as a range hood must both have their own 15A circuit per code, plus it just makes sense, as you don't want your fridge tripping out lol) and bathrooms are supposed to have a dedicated 20A circuit. 1 bathroom can have one 20A circuit for the outlets and lighting or two bathrooms can share one 20A outlet circuit and have the lighting on a separate lighting circuit (a lighting circuit is a 15a circuit serving only lighting/ceiling fans as defined by the code).

I can't think of any other major things. GFCIs *should* be used in the kitchen, bathroom, garage, basement, outdoors, and some special places, however an exception to GFCI protection in kitchens is dedicated receptacles (for fridge, microwave, dishwasher, stove) that are specifically for one appliance and can't be used for anything else, which is good since again, you don't want your fridge unnecessarily being shut off lol.

Wiring projects are fun! If you didn't live thousands of miles away I'd offer to go help your dad. ;D LOL

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 01, 2017, 12:52:35 AM
We've since decided after another phone conversation we're gonna just rewire as much of the house as we can.  This includes moving the breaker board OUT OF THE BATHROOM.

Downstairs will be easier, we're gonna just run everything through the crawlspace and come up through the floor, slight snaking needed but not much.  This means we'll be able to reuse the existing outlet boxes, nothing wrong with the existing boxes.  I'm going to recommend we do a separate lighting circuit with the #14 he bought already, 15a should cover all the lighting or shold we do two circuits for lighting? 

Upstairs may be somewhat more difficult, but much of it comes up through one shared wall with the kitchen so snaking could be relatively easy there, tape the new wire to the old and pull the old stuff out pulling new in.  For my bedroom the one wall should be easy but the other and some of the ceiling lights in the house may involve tearing up some sheetrock. 

You say I can (by code) legally use #14 for the fridge and the stove? I'd like to go 20a for all the other room circuits to allow overhead for electric space heaters to be used if need be. 

Washer and dryer are on another circuit hooked directly to the generator, not part of the main house panel, so that probably won't get replaced. 

Doing the lighting circuit separate may mean more cost but I'd prefer it that way for the reason you described.  Overloading an outlet won't plunge a whole room or two rooms into darkness, and even if the lighting circuit develops a fault there's some table lamps that still work so you're kept out of the dark. 

Might also finally make the two screwed up 3-way switch installs in the house actually work as intended!  ;D

Ideas for pulling wire behind drywall without tearing up walls/ceilings if at all possible?  My dad is a 70 year old retired carpenter so he knows his stuff too but any other ideas are welcome. 

LOL, if you could afford to pay for your plane ticket there and back and to feed yourself for however long,  you should come visit and help me pull wire all summer long in the evenings after work and on weekends. (My dad will be working much of the summer too, out of town, so with a larger magnitude project I'd LOVE the help).  I would LOVE to have someone who really knows their codes and construction stuff inside out come help, but you might just go insane seeing my house and all its issues. 

One friend of ours who will be visiting us this summer actually grew up in our house from like '94-'02.   (We know his mom, the person we bought it from).  He's a fully licensed/bonded electrician who did lots of marine electrical for my dad on a previous project.  Perhaps if he's in town for a week I can get him to come visit and make him a couple meals in exchange for someone to help me pull Romex and make sure I'm doing it right. Or at least look at what's there and offer other ideas on what to do to fix what isn't feasible to replace that's buried in walls/ceilings.  We decided we're redoing everything because we don't know exactly where the problem lies and there's numerous marginal/sketchy/overloaded/just plain OLD areas using materials long since outlawed by modern codes.  (tiny metal boxes, '50s era "Loomex", etc). 

That said all the existing fixtures with '70s-'80s Universal and Advance ballasts will stay, just connected to new wiring.  If this goes as planned the ONE good thing about my house that will meet code is the wiring; the rest of the house will still have its fare share of issues.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 01, 2017, 08:34:19 AM
Yeah running the wires through the basement would be easier. Kudos for going through the trouble to move the breaker box! lol

Yeah existing boxes can be reused. Not sure how many lights are in your house, but you should lay the circuit out as if you were using incandescent lamps one wattage higher than the max rating on each fixture (if all your fixtures say use max 60W incandescents, lay everything out as if you were using 75W incandescents, which would give you room to spare if you ever added lighting in). I personally would separate the lighting between upstairs and downstairs just so you don't have one cable going all through the house. It would be a PITA to troubleshoot if something went wrong since you'd have no lighting in the house! I'd put outdoor lighting on its own circuit too, since that's where shorts and other problems are most likely to occur. You don't want an outdoor fixture keeping your lights off!

For the fridge, yes, if it's a dedicated outlet, you can use a 15A. For a GAS stove, you can also use a dedicated 15A outlet (uses 120V for the ignition, time/timer, etc. and I'm not even sure if that one has to be dedicated, but it would make sense to prevent nuisance tripping, as it would otherwise have to be GFCI protected) but for a 240V stove I'm not sure. I'm not sure what rating breaker by electric stove has. I'll have to check...

Good luck on fixing that 3-way switch! They're a PITA to wire up since you need 3-cable wire (black, red, white, plus ground). Can't use regular romex for that. I can't help you with snaking wires though. I HATE doing that lol. Takes a LOT of patience and practice. I'd rather just rip out the wall LOL. Part of your house should be fairly easy though, since don't you have some T1-11 or plywood for walls in part of the house? Would be pretty easy to unscrew it or pop the nails out to get full access to the wiring. That's where drywall sucks lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 01, 2017, 01:12:48 PM
Yeah, my dad is thinking let's do "home run" through the crawlspace, AKA every wire ends up back at the breaker box, but I don't see necessity in that. We'll need a huge panel if that's the case but each receptacle on its own dedicated 15a or 20a would be wonderful.  I wonder if in that case you could legally get away with #14 for EVERYTHING if EVERY outlet was on its own breaker?  :o

I was looking at the NEC and they say 3 watts per square foot for a lighting circuit.  So I'll probably need at least 3.  Perhaps one for the garage/shop, one for the rest of downstairs, and another for upstairs?  Perhaps a fourth for some outdoor lighting but that's gonna be a lot of work so I'll likely just put all that on the downstairs lighting circuit. 

Yes, my range is propane, and pretty old/primative, it only has the electronic ignition, not even an oven light! 

For hot water I currently have coils in a small diesel stove but that whole arrangement is eventually changing.  I plan to wire up the electric element in the storage tank, a normal 50 gallon electric water heater, but that will be off just one of my generators, which also needs a redone panel.  30A and #10 wire should work for that no problem, I've seen it done before.

For my inverter/charger/transfer to the house panel I'll probably go 120v/30A strictly on the basis of probably only being able to fit #10 wire on the terminals of the inverter/charger/transfer switch unit.  This one doesn't have a separate feed for the charger, which when starting to charge dead batteries easily pulls as much as 1500 watts by itself.  When I had only 2000 watts worth of generator, I had to let the batteries come up before turning on any large loads; sure I could run a few lights, etc. in the house but that was it for the first bit.  Because of the way that unit is wired I'd probably put it on a 30a 120v breaker, so even when charging dead batteries the house has as much as 15A worth of usable power besides that.  Also #10 going into the new panel and a 30a main there, so with fully charged batteries I should be able to use 30a. Then 15a for the lighting circuits, refrigerator, stove, etc, and 20a for outlets.   Another 20a breaker in the generator-only panel would power the washer/dryer circuit, and another for some chest freezers out in the garage/shop.  But that second panel would probably be another phase of the job after I move that generator elsewhere.  Perhaps also run another 20a breaker off the inverter panel for each future outbuilding, two of them to be exact.  There I might put the lights and outlets on the same breaker, it's not the main house. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 01, 2017, 05:28:52 PM
Nah having every outlet on its own switch is a little ridiculous for a dwelling lol. One 20A breaker per room would be sufficient (even 1 15A breaker would be sufficient unless you're a real energy pig). I personally don't like having more than one breaker per room for outlets since it can get confusing when work is done on the electrical (i.e. a person might shut off one breaker for a bedroom and not realize there's another breaker for the same room and get juiced or on the flip side, a person might not know which breaker to flip off if there are two labeled for the same room). However, it does have the benefit of only loosing half a room if you trip a breaker.

On the same token, I don't like sharing breakers between rooms unless they're the same kind of room (such as two smaller sized bedrooms). Something like a hallway outlet I'd just tap into whatever circuit is powering the outlets in the room on the other side of the wall (unless it's the bathroom; that's a no-no).

My basement has all the outlets on one 15A breaker (for the finished portion that is; it's like 14 outlets or something). We've never tripped it since we don't use the majority of the outlets down there (they're inaccessible with stuff in the way anyway; we have two that we use for temporary stuff like vacuuming the rugs or me testing lights and we have one quad outlet for the TV and stereo and one outlet for the computer, shredder, printer, wifi modem, and downstairs phone, all on a power strip (well the phone is plugged directly into the other outlet on the duplex with everything else plugged into the power strip, which s plugged into the duplex outlet.

Since you don't have a full basement this is a bit of a moot point, but I'm a big fan of quad outlets at "light switch level" in an unfinished basement. In a finished basement the outlets look weird higher up but for unfinished basements it's really handy for a future workshop or if you have stuff stacked against the walls it doesn't necessarily block the outlets.

Not sure if I could deal with living off-grid. Sure it's doable but it sounds like a real pain in the butt lol. Having to charge batteries and all that. I'd rather just pay the electric bil every month and just use electricity at my convenience. Of course, since you have no power company in your area you don't have a choice. I bet wind power looks appealing to you though! (maybe solar in the summer but it would be pretty useless in the winter months up there lol, I'd imagine you get a decent amount of wind year-round though?) Of course, you still have all the extra "stuff" to deal with but you'd get rid of the diesel generator (or at least it would be supplemented by the wind power or whatever green source you consider). You might even be able to set up a wind-powered lighting system in your house for 12V lighting if that's feasible. Would be cool for sure! 12V LEDs tend to have the flicker issues but there are probably better ones out there that do not. Of course, that's not allowing for your fluorescents to be used. So perhaps the 12v LED lighting would be for night lighting or just in certain areas of the house?

Honestly, I'd love to have a bunch of small output LEDs on the ceiling and have a "starry night sky" look but at light levels of a typical home. Basically the whole ceiling covered in lights but not a true luminous ceiling, as those give me that "sterile hospital" vibe lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 01, 2017, 07:25:51 PM
The person who did a bunch of wiring in the '90s at our house put in a crap ton of the quad-plex outlets.  While overkill they are handy.  I know who it was and had the privelage of asking "Why'd you do that?" and was told it was because back then "Wall warts" were so big they'd take up a whole receptacle.

We have a wind generator and since I've been there Dad has since added some solar, so we're getting there alternative energy wise, but a long way to go nevertheless! 

Ya know, maybe I should consider going low voltage LED lighting, but right now I just want to fix the existing system, keep it 120v.

And I personally love the luminous ceiling concept in those 50s/60s/70s/80s kitchens! I grew up in a house with such a setup from '88. I'd recreate that in a new install if I could. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 01, 2017, 08:09:37 PM
If I were to have a luminous ceiling I'd want it to be capable of 6500K lighting and 3000K lighting (using separately switched fluorescent tubes I suppose) so I could use the 6500K during the day for that "daylight" look and 3000K at night for a more cozy feeling. I don't like cooler temperatures in "living spaces" at nighttime. Feels cold and uninviting to me. But during the daytime warmer light looks drab and boring.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 01, 2017, 08:13:57 PM
That's a really interesting idea actually!

Guess what Mike?  I bought more of the GE halogens, this time old-stock Mexican ones from 2012, pre-modified-spectrum.  1490 lumens!   ;D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 01, 2017, 09:26:21 PM
Oh wow 1490 lumens? Sounds good! Not quite as good as 1600L 100W incandescent but still better than the crap they've got now lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 01, 2017, 11:39:08 PM
LOL!

To further humor you, I just bought some GE EcoLux Chroma 50 for some trash picked wraparounds with crappy 14/15/20 LPF ballasts...two of them is about a 25w bulb.  :8)

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on April 02, 2017, 05:35:47 PM
@GEsoftwhite100watts:
LOL yep some of those LPF ballasts really suck. That plus a C50, and you've basically got a nightlight.
The 4xF40 version of those wraparounds that I have came with HPF ballasts, but they were also probably something like a mid-ballast factor, so dimmer than a good HPF, but brighter than a LPF
(still :lol: that they also were trash saved like yours)
One is laying in the crawlspace (still has its original ballasts), the other is on my bedroom ceiling above some plants (original ballasts got swapped, one for a real HPF, the other for a 2xF96T12 electronic...wired for overdrive of a single lamp, & the 4' lamps wired in series so same as a single 8')


------------
The discussion of those old houses, best solution (except for the fact it'd require allot of cash) would be simply to start over from the ground up (ie: build a new house :lol: (& if the lot is big enough just leave the old one as a shed/storage/shop))


------------
@Mike:
I actually have a room setup with 6500K & 3000K, individually switched. :) There's another that might. eventually get the same treatment, but if it happens, I'll go with dimmable ballasts.
(note: not a luminous ceiling in either case)

Breaker for an electric stove is 50a / 240v
Breaker for an electric dryer is 30a / 240v


------------
If I was ever building or re-doing a house, for bedrooms/living/family/etc *for me* I would go no less than 1 20a breaker per room (and if for some reason I wanted the lights separate, a 15a each for that..I'd also put one switched outlet on the 'lights circuit' .. only thing is it'd look a bit dumb having switches separated from eachother).
Pretty much goes without saying, but every room would also get all the  network/phone/stereo/cable jacks (as well as be wired for surround sound - might as well put all  the wires in the walls while you have the chance...even if you never plan on using them)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 02, 2017, 07:44:37 PM
Yeah for my own house if i ripped out the walls to replace the electrical I'd run a synchronized clock circuit too for my synchronized clocks. All it consists of is some 12/3 or 10/3 romex on a dedicated circuit (fat wire for minimal voltage drop).
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on April 02, 2017, 08:29:53 PM
@Mike:
So just a standard type of wire then. Interesting.
Clocks like that would actually be a pretty neat feature to have in a house.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: ZarlogH46 on April 02, 2017, 08:30:20 PM
What wattage were the halogens?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 02, 2017, 08:40:24 PM
Mine? 72w
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 02, 2017, 09:51:54 PM
Yep they run right on 120V The black, white, and ground are a normal 24/7 powered 120V 60Hz circuit. the red wire is energized once an hour at a specific time for a specific length of time to synchronize the clock. That red wire is also 120V 60Hz and is tied to the black 24/7 powered wire in the master. The red wire powers an electromagnetic relay in the clock wired between the red and white wire. The black wire powers the motor, which is wired between black and white.

You can also manually correct a whole system with a single push-button if you don't have a master. All the master does is automatically send the correction signals instead of you having to wait for the exact right moment to do them. Of course, once the clocks are set initially, they'll remain on-time as long as the power doesn't go out (though sometimes certain ones run fast or slow since the second hand is powered directly off the motor; the clocks aren't designed to be 100% accurate since they receive the corrections hourly). Other than doing the corrections the master can also control door locks (i.e. building doors are locked between this time and that time), bells for classrooms, and other timed "events" as they call them.

The system is all obsolete now with PoE clock systems or atomic clocks that self-adjust for daylight savings. But in the 50s and up until around 2000 these mechanical sync-wired clock systems were state of the art and all the rage in institutional, government, and office buildings where time accuracy is important. I couldn't believe these clocks are 100% mechanical. The masters were at one time too, with mechanical relays and vacuum tubes and all that good stuff. Some systems used frequency emitters instead of a red wire for correction. The clocks has receivers that picked up a certain frequency and corrected based on the presence of that frequency. I don't know much about those though. I mostly know about the sync-wired systems.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on April 02, 2017, 10:49:50 PM
@Mike:
Interesting setup...Might be obsolete, but still neat stuff.
What exactly did the relay do when energized? just make the motor spin faster? or was there a 2nd motor for setting time?

One of the schools I went to had a synchronized clock system, probably just like what you are talking about! (this was in the 80's, & building was brand new! Everything in it was nice & modernized.  The other schools were all older, & none of them had clock systems like that .lol.)
I wonder if the bell system was tied in too?
I can remember a few times looking at a clock at just the right moment to see it make a little adjustment...first time I saw it was like :shock:
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 03, 2017, 06:32:37 AM
The relay had an arm attached to it and when the relay activated it pushed out its arm. The arm had half a gear attached to it, which would interlock with one of the gears in the clock and "ride" upward toward a lever. During an hourly correction (which is done once every hour between XXhour :57min :54sec to correct the minute and second hand) the lever gets lifted half-way by the relay being energized for about 8 seconds. The lever somehow makes the clock run at one-minute-per-second until it catches up to the Master's Time, at which case it will stop dead in its tracks and wait for the master to catch up. Other time it will stop first and then the hands will move fast to the masters time and then when the minute hand gets to the 59th minute it will CLICK and the clock will resume normal operation.

For the 12-hour correction, which occurs twice daily (hence 12-hr) at I 5:57:54 AM and PM, the lever is lifted all the way and locks into position. This occurs when the relay is energized for about 14 seconds and you'll hear a loud click. 12-HR correction is simply multiple hourly corrections, where the clock keeps going at 1 minute per second until it reaches 5:59:00 and then it stops. To initially set the clocks in a building manually (if you had no master; this is almost never done in the field) you would first need to do a 12-hr correction by pushing and holding the push button for 14 seconds at 5:57:54 AM or PM (make your choice), which would correct the hour hand on all the clocks. But because the clocks are all different times initially, some take longer than others to get to 6 O'Clock, so the following hour at 6:57:54, you'll need an hourly correction to correct the minute and second hands as well (where you push and hold the button for 7-8 seconds starting at 6:57:54). Then the clocks should all be the same (correct) time. The master does this automatically every hour of every day but manually it is not necessary and in fact you'll probably screw the clocks' times up doing it manually every day since humans are not as exact.

I should add though that some brands do use two motors for correction! All my knowledge is in the IBM/Simplex sync-wired clock systems though. Not sure how other systems worked (they were all different with different brands, so if you had one brand of clock, you couldn't use another brand or it wouldn't work, which kinda sucked, though most of the time these clocks were repaired since they're upwards of $200 a pop when new!) Simplex bought IBM's line in the 50s so Simplex clocks are the same as the really old IBM ones. IBM actually designed them though. Simplex still makes them too, though most are plastic and not metal, so the motors fry after a few years of 24/7 use.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on April 03, 2017, 07:51:32 PM
Quote from: Mike
... the motors fry after a few years ...
LOL reading that.
typical modern junk :8)

---
It would be cool to see that little auto-adjustment thing in action...but instead of across the room, up close & ideally with the cover off 8) (and ofcourse where the time was atleast a few minutes off)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 03, 2017, 09:49:15 PM
 Here's a video I made of me testing the correction relay (I guess the technical term would be a solenoid since there's no electrical contacts) but there's nothing showing the inside of the clock.  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2HEveT7xeI)

I have several of those square Simplex clocks, all from about 1998 when my high school redid the clock system. All have the original parts, though most do not work (which is how I got them; was supposed to fix them but it fell through and they never asked for the clocks back so I kept them... lol). I'd like to eventually fix them (most have just bad motors, but the little synchronous motors are $30 a pop!; one had a broken glass). I also have a square clock from American Time that is similar and made as an aftermarket spot replacement for a simplex system. The American Time clock is from 2011. The motors are junk in these newer clocks but the clocks themselves are pretty hardy. The square Simplex ones (like in the video) have a cast aluminum light gray rim with a glass face and a steel backing with a plastic dial (face). The American Time one is the same thing but the rim is black painted sheet metal. I have an old 60s round Simplex that even has a metal face. I also have a couple round simplex clocks that are designed to surface mount to the wall and they're 100% plastic construction. The plastic on those is brow from the motors running so hot.

Anyway, I'd eventually like to get the clocks fixed and working but parts are getting harder and more expensive to find since people are moving away from these systems, though  They're still made. See the last clock on the page, the only square one.  (http://www.simplexgrinnellstore.com/time-solutions/wall-clocks/sync-wall-clocks/) I doubt building owners actually pay that rice. I assume if you're buying 50 clocks for a building that you get a pretty steep discount. But you can see how high the pricing is on these things!  American Time's replacement-for-Simplex clocks are more reasonable, but still outrageous for a clock lol.  (http://www.american-time.com/products-by-family/replacement-system-clocks/simplex/mechanical-2310-9200-series-steel-case-system-clocks)

The masters are well over $1000 but if I can find someone to make an Arduino program, I could make my own master for relatively cheap (under $100 I'd imagine) I don't know how to do that stuff though unfortunately. I talked it over with Joe from Ontario (member here) and he said it sounds like the Arduino program would be pretty involved but it is probably doable on an Arduino Uno. I'd need an LCD display, RTC (real time clock) and a keypad for inputs and a relay and pilot lights for an output (to control the voltage sent through the red wire during corrections). External to the arduino I'd have a switch to disable the automatic corrections and have a switch for manual corrections in case of equipment failure. Both would probably be located inside a cabinet.

I want to use a hinged NEMA 1 enclosure. The exterior would have the 16X2 LCD display showing the current date and time as well as three pilot lights. One would be on to show the cabinet has power, another would light up during correction signals, and the third would only be on when the automatic corrections have been disabled. Inside the cabinet would be the keypad and the toggle switches mounted to a panel. Behind the panel would be the arduino and all the wiring. I'd have one 15A circuit coming into the panel from a dedicated breaker and a circuit or two (depending on the layout of the home; number of clock circuits is irrelevant since they're all traced back to the master) going around the house to the clocks, which are simply wired in parallel with one another.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on April 04, 2017, 09:22:42 PM
@Mike:
I'll have to watch your vid later..(from my other computer)

I wonder if you could pick up motors that would work more reasonably on eBay or something?

You're right those prices are outrageous

Earlier this year at a meetup of local people into lights I got to see an Arduino in action for the first time.. ..guy that owned it, had it setup for controlling xmas lights to sound. (had it connected to a relay board to run the 120v lights...It was a pretty simple little setup.)
I'm going to try using a Raspberry Pi for controlling lights, but it'll be a larger more complicated thing with quite a few more channels. (my current old light control stuff runs directly off an old computer with homebuilt 'hardware' & software)


I don't know anything about programming Arduino's, but from what you said, the actual control signals for those clocks sounds fairly simple. (Software for doing lights on Raspberry Pi's is already in existence, and is freeware..otherwize I wouldn't have any clue for controlling things with those either)

Funny thing is, with one of those clocks (and the exact specs on the timings for corrections) I could very likely rig it to one of my existing old computer light controllers... then program the computer to run it :lol:
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 04, 2017, 09:46:25 PM
The motors do pop up on ebay but most are used (so not guaranteed to work for a very long time) and/or priced as high as buying from American Time (which is pretty much the only place that sells these clock parts).

Yeah the actual function of closing the relay for a certain length of time seems easy enough but I also want to be able to set the time and do the other extras I mentioned. Are there places I could take an Arduino to be programmed? Like Geek Squad or something?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on April 04, 2017, 10:56:09 PM
Yeah, I wouldn't buy a used motor either.

I could do the time setting thing on a computer with the mentioned above light stuff :lol:


Geek Squad as far as I know only fixes things
Your best bet for Arduino programming would probably be to find/join a Arduino forum.

Though I almost wonder if any of the existing light-control 'software' that runs on Arduino could be configured to do what you want. Thing is I don't even know what they're using...  Its different than what runs on a Pi (I've only experimented with the Pi stuff myself)
At  the end of the month there's another light meetup here...if I go, and if the guy who uses Arduino is there, I'll try to remember to ask him about it...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 05, 2017, 01:55:59 PM
Ah maybe. Yeah if you remember to ask an Arduino guy next time you're at an xmas light meetup I'd SO appreciate it! I could probably also do it using Raspberry Pi. Either one works for me since I don't know anything about either lol.

Anyway, had a dry (albeit overcast) day today so I took inventory on exactly what I have for clocks and what I need for parts. Turns out I have six of those square simplex clocks identical to the ones in the video I linked above and I have just one American Time square clock (which I already knew). Of those clocks, apparently only four have bad motors (the rest I had marked as "works fine") and one is missing the glass in addition to the bad motor. So three supposedly work fine. I say supposedly because they worked when I tested them but when I removed these clocks, they were all malfunctioning (or else I wouldn't have removed them). Probably a safe bet to get a bunch of those little motors since they seem to make a habit out of crapping out.

I did some price shopping and looks like the motors are $30.95 a pop (so that's $123.80 for the four I need, $216.65 if I got a motor for each clock, or $371.40 if I got 10 motors to have plenty of spares). Crazy money right there!

In addition, the one glass face I'd need would set me back a whopping $25.95 (compared to the round clocks' glassware that is only $15, still expensive for a thin piece of curved glass IMO). I'd also need the proper Molex connectors (plugs) and recessed wall boxes, which are $6.95 and $17.95 respectively. I'd need 7 Molex plugs and 8 back boxes so those totals come to $48.65 and $143.60 respectively.

That brings the grand total for parts to about $400. If I just get the four motors I absolutely need, the one replacement glass, and the molex plugs, that's just under $200, which I could handle but still expensive for what I'm getting in return. And that would still require more parts to be bought (the back boxes for mounting, which are unfortunately proprietary, and additional motors since the life on those motors is usually no more than 10-15 years). Obviously an expensive restoration but I do have a soft spot for these clocks and they do run reliably aside from the costly parts to maintain them.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on April 06, 2017, 08:50:49 PM
@Mike:
I'll let you know on that! I'm kinda curious myself what they're using on Arduino!

I have a feeling if the Arduino won't work, that a Pi would! (it'd be way overkill in processing power, but they're not that expensive) Once I've played around more with the lights software I could probably say on the Pi

Those parts really add up! I personally couldn't spend that much on clocks, but if you have a soft spot for them/its your hobby, I can totally see it. :) Any sorta hobby/collecting is expensive these days.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 07, 2017, 10:42:51 PM
Yeah I probably won't end up fixing all the clocks. Probably wouldn't need all of those for a single house anyway. One in each bedroom, one in the kitchen, one in the living room, one in the basement (possibly two if a big basement) and POSSIBLY one in the garage if it's used as a workshop. So I guess if I did it that way, that would bring me to 8 clocks, which is what I have lol (well I have 10 but two are crappy plastic ones that surface-mount to the wall instead of sitting semi-flush into the wall via a back box). The plastic ones need new movements (the movement is the "gear box") which are $100 parts I kid you not. If I get desperate I'll fix one and convert the other two quartz and sell it or something. Even though they're junky plastic ones I can't bring myself to just toss it in the trash because of the big money they go for when new. The vintage Simplex and IBM clocks go for big bucks on eBay. Just search "simplex clock" or "simplex school clock" and your jaw will drop at the price for some of those clocks, especially when sold in poor condition, as many of them are after 50 years of service.

Yeah Arduino or Pi makes no difference to me lol. I've designed a digital prototype using Publisher of the Master Clock/Time Control Center I'd like to build. I'd be using a 10" X 8" X 4" Hammond NEMA 1 hinged steel enclosure. The LED display, keypad input to the controller, and line-connected toggle switches would be mounted to the door. The toggles would not be involved with the electronics circuitry for simplicity. One toggle would be momentary contact for manual corrections (push and hold for 8 or 14 seconds) and the other toggle would be in between the relay output and the red wire going to the clocks, which would disable automated correction signals (the controller would still energize the relay but the circuit between the relay and clocks would be broken). Might not make sense from a technical point of view (would make sense to disable the controller from even energizing the relay) but that's probably the simplest way to do it. I'd possibly include some LED indicators as well for the "cool factor" lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 18, 2017, 05:03:58 PM
Well I ordered a new capacitor for my bedroom ceiling fan. My brother and I have identical ceiling fans that were installed when the house was built (2003). I've used mine a lot more than he's used his. I've noticed for awhile that my fan is a lot slower than it used to be. I remember when it was on high you could heard the "whirl" of the blades spinning around (sounds like a large waterfall, you know, that white noise sound?) and it was quite powerful. But now when it's on high I barely feel any air at all and moving it to medium or low barely changes the speed at all. I did a comparison with my fan and my brother's on high and his blew my fan's socks off (he normally keeps his fan on low, so our fans are normally the same speed, though mine is on HIGH).

I did a little reading on the internet and found that there are only a few things that could slow the fan down: wearing/dirty bearings bearings (physically hard to turn, which my fan is not; it spins quite freely by hand), bad motor (which I haven't ruled out since I didn't inspect the motor but from what I see the motors are quite reliable. Typically when the motors do fail its due to a bad capacitor to begin with). And the third being the capacitor. Similar to a CWA ballast's capacitor, when the fan capacitor goes bad, it "dims" the fan speed like how a CWA ballast's capacitor dims the lamp it's running when it looses farads. At least that's what I understand from my reading. Someone like Nick from LG would know more about it than me.

I found the correct capacitor on ebay for $7 shipped to my door so I can't go wrong. If it doesn't work my mom said they'd buy a new fan for my room as long as I install it. I'd rather keep my existing fan if I can fix it since it's probably better quality than what they sell today (it's probably a Home Depot special from back in the day but the fans in 2003 were still probably better than the junk they sell now. I know the fixtures HD sells have gotten plenty worse). Plus the fan wouldn't match my brighter's anymore. Not that it's a big deal but one of my peeves is similar/identical rooms having different light fixtures lol. My parents' room has a different fan (Hampton Bay I think) but that's the Master Bedroom, so it's OK in my book lol.

At any rate, I'm curious to see if the capacitor helps. It shows no signs of stress (not bulged, not leaky, etc.). The capacitor is a tiny little black cube about the size of a 9V battery with a red wire and white wire. It's a 4.5uf 250V capacitor. New one is identical except for the brand and wire colors. From what I've read, the capacitors in fans are notoriously junky and often crap out. Sounds just like many capacitor-containing light fixtures lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: ZarlogH46 on April 18, 2017, 05:39:17 PM
Well I ordered a new capacitor for my bedroom ceiling fan. My brother and I have identical ceiling fans that were installed when the house was built (2003). I've used mine a lot more than he's used his. I've noticed for awhile that my fan is a lot slower than it used to be. I remember when it was on high you could heard the "whirl" of the blades spinning around (sounds like a large waterfall, you know, that white noise sound?) and it was quite powerful. But now when it's on high I barely feel any air at all and moving it to medium or low barely changes the speed at all. I did a comparison with my fan and my brother's on high and his blew my fan's socks off (he normally keeps his fan on low, so our fans are normally the same speed, though mine is on HIGH).

I did a little reading on the internet and found that there are only a few things that could slow the fan down: wearing/dirty bearings bearings (physically hard to turn, which my fan is not; it spins quite freely by hand), bad motor (which I haven't ruled out since I didn't inspect the motor but from what I see the motors are quite reliable. Typically when the motors do fail its due to a bad capacitor to begin with). And the third being the capacitor. Similar to a CWA ballast's capacitor, when the fan capacitor goes bad, it "dims" the fan speed like how a CWA ballast's capacitor dims the lamp it's running when it looses farads. At least that's what I understand from my reading. Someone like Nick from LG would know more about it than me.

I found the correct capacitor on ebay for $7 shipped to my door so I can't go wrong. If it doesn't work my mom said they'd buy a new fan for my room as long as I install it. I'd rather keep my existing fan if I can fix it since it's probably better quality than what they sell today (it's probably a Home Depot special from back in the day but the fans in 2003 were still probably better than the junk they sell now. I know the fixtures HD sells have gotten plenty worse). Plus the fan wouldn't match my brighter's anymore. Not that it's a big deal but one of my peeves is similar/identical rooms having different light fixtures lol. My parents' room has a different fan (Hampton Bay I think) but that's the Master Bedroom, so it's OK in my book lol.

At any rate, I'm curious to see if the capacitor helps. It shows no signs of stress (not bulged, not leaky, etc.). The capacitor is a tiny little black cube about the size of a 9V battery with a red wire and white wire. It's a 4.5uf 250V capacitor. New one is identical except for the brand and wire colors. From what I've read, the capacitors in fans are notoriously junky and often crap out. Sounds just like many capacitor-containing light fixtures lol.
I had a ceiling fan in a storage room that wouldn't even spin when you turned it on, it would just hum. I fixed it by replacing the cap. Have you got any pictures of the fan?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 18, 2017, 06:24:25 PM
I'll post a pic on LG in the off-topic section. Look for it in like 10 minutes... 8)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 18, 2017, 10:06:09 PM
I've seen malfunctioning ceiling fans which were probably on low but barely turning at all and wondered why; now I know.  I've also seen the motors just plain flat out fail, we had one do that, one day it just burned up and that was that.  It was in a master bedroom and 25 years of hot California summers over a bed did it in I guess.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on April 27, 2017, 09:03:09 PM
@Mike
Last weekend when I went to the meetup of local light guys, I did get a chance to talk briefly with the guy I mentioned who used an Arduino for controlling lights.
He had one of his Arduinos there too connected to a relay board & a few strings of lights. Even fired it up. Pretty neat little setup. I think something like that would deff work for your clocks.
He said there's a bunch of little programs out there on the Arduino website.


@GEsoftwhite100watts:
You'll probably get a laugh out of this since you're into radio stuff...
I was listening to one of the local stations (its HD-2 channel actually) tonight, at one point they messed up!
They said their station name, then started a song...then maybe 30 seconds later said their station name again (while the song was still going), and started another song! So yep they had 2 different songs playing simultaneously! .LOL.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 27, 2017, 09:06:55 PM
Hahahaha those "bloopers" can be pretty hilarious, were you able to record it?

Mike, I found out that Richardson Highway was actually built as the 4-lane it is, the OLD Richardson highway was/is 2-lane.  Drove the whole entirety of it's at-grade-intersections mess with a fellow LG member recently.  While being told about all the interchanges they've added.  LOL. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on April 27, 2017, 10:47:58 PM
Nope, didn't record (I could have easily gotten part of it but the thought never crossed my mind) though without the beginning it would be really missing something .LOL.
First time I've ever heard any station mess up in that way

I bet that highway trip was actually kinda intresting with the 'history' he was able to tell!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: ZarlogH46 on April 28, 2017, 06:19:07 AM
The radio station I listen to here all of the time always screws up. For example, accidentally playing 2 songs at once, songs that randomly stop for 5 minutes resulting in complete silence, and talking over songs.  :P
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 28, 2017, 04:12:23 PM
I know a radio station which at least used to drop the legal top of hour ID (Call letters, city of license, moniker) in mid-song. Usually it's done give or take five minutes to as to between songs/program segments, but this station was more or less fully automated so I'm not surprised it just dropped in mid-song at the exact top of the hour.  It was a syndicated, canned classic rock format, fully automated, not even many local commercials.  For those of you who really want to know, it was KSBZ/103.1 in Sitka, AK. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 28, 2017, 08:45:08 PM
There's only one rock station in the Rhode Island area. 94.1 WHJY Providence. There's also classic hits (70s, 80s, early 90s rock and other hits from the era) on a few stations. (101.5 B101 Providence, 100.7 WZLX Boston, 101.9 WCIB "Cool 102" Falmouth/Hyannis, and 105.7 WROR Framingham/Boston)

There's one station in Providence that plays alternative music called 95.5 WBRU, which is an otherwise-professional station done by a local college (Brown University, hence BRU (BRown University)). Other than that it's all pop/rap/hip-hop/R&B crap plus some miscellaneous stuff like talk radio, religious, a couple of country stations, and some elevator music. All stuff I'd never listen to. I hardly listen to the radio at all because I can't stand the 20 minutes of commercials that they play every 10 minutes. I get in the car to drive and by the time a song comes on I'm at my destination. And half the time they play the same songs three times a day, so when I leave my destination to go back home, I catch the SAME song on the way home lol.

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 28, 2017, 09:20:20 PM
My area has some interesting and actually quite good radio stations.  This isn't an exhaustive list but I'll name off some of the ones that are remarkable.

KRFF/89.1, a rather unique noncommercial community station serving much of Interior Alaska via a network of translators.  Imagine a noncommercial station playing classic rock/oldies/classic hits, no joke! 

KUAC/89.9 Fairbanks, AK  Fun fact: KUAC stands for K-University of Alaska College, a student run station with NPR, BBC, etc. type programming, and also classical/jazz music.  Fun fact #2:  KUAC was the second FM radio station to hit the air in Alaska, first air date October 1962.  Originally debuted at 104.7 in 1962 but in 1998 was paid to change frequencies to 89.9, down in the 88-92 non-comm part of the FM band, so another station could take their place, KKED/104.7. KKED is a rather unusual, albeit iHeartRadio owned, alt-rock station, "104.7 the Edge, Alaska's Rock Alternative".  They do however pitch their audio which is slightly odd. 

KSUA/91.5 College, AK  Another student-run station at UAF, I'm pretty sure the call letters stand for K-Student University of Alaska.  Basically motivational talks and weird dubstep music.  LOL.  I've thought about working at either KUAC or KSUA.  First air date 1984, was commercial until a 1993 shutdown, then reorganized as non-comm under university ownership.  At some point moved from 103.9 to 91.5 to allow another commercial station.

KJDF/93.5 Ester, AK:  A rather interesting country version of the "(male name) FM" classic hits type format, "Chet FM", a massive ecletic mix of all types of country music, lots of older stuff like Willie Nelson and the like. 

KWDD/94.3 Fairbanks, AK:  "Alaska's MOST Country, GUARANTEED: WIIIIILLLLDDDD 94.3", your more common new-hit country type station, but completely local. 

One of my personal favorites, KXLR/95.9 Fairbanks, AK "X-Rock".  A really well done mainstream rock (I wouldn't QUITE call them active rock) format which plays everything from Led Zeppelin to Stone Sour.  Has the typical suggestive morning show type stuff of course, but what do you expect from an active rocker in a college town? 

KYSC/96.9 Fairbanks, AK: A fully automated (read: crap) classic rocker, "Alaska's classic rock authority, 96.9 the River".  Used to air the UAF Nanooks hockey games back in the day or so I'm told. 

KWLF/98.1, "K-Wolf 98.1" a rather well done and suprisingly big-city-sounding CHR format, playing the likes of Chainsmokers, etc.  Apparently started in 1987 by someone who worked at KSUA/91.5 before that.  The moniker cracks me up, I'd expect a 'wolf' to be a country or MAYBE classic rock, not an upbeat urban CHR. 


KJNP1170AM/100.3 FM, basically the hugest Gospel station you can imagine, call letters stand for "King Jesus North Pole".  With a 50,000 watt signal even on FM from Ester Dome outside Fairbanks they get OUT signal wise. 

KAKQ/101.1, an odd "mix" type format run by iHeartRadio, but NOT a 70s/80s/90s/00s "adult hits" format by a long shot. 

KIAK/102.5, "Kayak FM".  A massive, 100,000 watt flamethrower of a signal with a nondescript new-country format but that signal gets out, they give weather reports for places like Tok and Delta Junction!  Even Delta Junction is 2 hours from here. 

KTDZ/103.9, an odd locally run but fully automated/on autopilot/jockless 70s/80s classic hits format, kind of unusual. 

I think that covered some of the major ones besides Gospel stations and the like.  (Did I mention we even have a Spanish-language Gospel station here?) 


Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on April 29, 2017, 07:27:24 AM
 Here's a more complete list.  (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_radio_stations_in_Rhode_Island) Most of the stations here are garbage. We get several stations from Massachusetts though, some of which are OK. My 1990 Buick doesn't pick up the MA stations though (but any cheap modern radio will). In fact, my car has trouble picking up the local Providence stations a couple miles away lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on April 29, 2017, 02:13:55 PM
Yeah, outside this area it's a whole lotta nothing FM wise so nothing to "DX", it's all local. Closest place with "other" stations outside the whole Fairbanks/Ester/North Pole area would be Delta Junction or Anchorage I believe. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 12, 2017, 07:39:56 PM
Well I just got a 4ft 2-lamp slimline strip light today! $20 off Craigslist with the lamps! It's an old Day-O-Lite model (made right in Warwick, RI!) with a replacement Advance ballast from the 90s (originally Universal ballast per the labeling on the original wiring). Best part was that it was a 10 minute drive from my house to pick it up! The guy really took care of it when he removed it too. Not a scratch on it! I just cleaned it with some wet paper towels and it came clean as new!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 13, 2017, 10:46:21 AM
Sweet find, Mike!  Got lamps yet? 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 13, 2017, 01:00:14 PM
Thanks! It came with Sylvania Ecologic cool white lamps with low hours and I have a pair of NOS GE cool white slimline lamps (that I don't want to use). Other than that I have no slimline lamps at all. Maybe sometime I'll go back up to Webster Electric and get some 4ft slimline lamps and maybe some 4ft HO lamps too while I'm at it (and some good ol' F40T12s!). Nothing fancy though. Just either classic CW, classic Daylight, or SP35. Maybe some 5000K. And I'll probably get more mogul base 100W MVs "just because" lol. Not for awhile though. I've spend enough money for now. $200 per visit (or $400 total). A once in a lifetime experience though, with all those light bulbs! :o ;D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 26, 2017, 02:00:36 AM
I'd get something cheap and modern to use up, but that's just me.  Sylvania EcoLogic seems fitting.  Maybe some Altos.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 28, 2017, 09:33:00 AM
Cheap I agree with. Not looking to spend big money. But I'd rather spend $1 or less per lamp on good quality vintage tubes than pay retail prices for current-production mediocre quality tubes. And for MV lamps it's a must to use vintage lamps. Modern lamps are just horrible except for Eye and Sylvania lamps, which are mediocre in quality compared to vintage lamps.

Yesterday I painted all but one of those six preheaters I got before I went on vacation. I found out the PERMALITE/Allied Fluorescent Mfg. Co. preheater was made right in Providence, RI! It's in very small print, which I found while masking off the label before painting. Definitely keeping that light! I will be trading/selling one of the preheaters though (the Arrow one). On the one I'm trading/selling I repainted the inner portion of the reflector (the white part) but left the gray paint original since most other people prefer the original paint. I personally like all-new paint unless the original paint is free from major scratches or rust patches.

The six lights consist of two Westinghouse lights, one which is restored and rewired an the other hasn't even been cleaned yet; Two York-Lite fixtures, which have been repainted inside and out and rewired and will be getting all new sockets when those arrive; One Arrow fluorescent fixture which I'll be selling/trading with partially rewired interior and new paint on the white portion of the reflector; and the last one was the PERMALITE fixture, which has all original wiring and was completely repainted except for the interior of the channel, since it was in perfect shape. The YORK-LITE fixtures had Adlite ballasts dated to 1962 but no dates on anything else. I switched the ballast in one of the York-Lite fixtures for the ballast in the Arrow fixture since the Arrow fixture's ballast was in better shape. So one of the 1962-dated ballasts is in the Arrow fixture but that fixture isn't really from 1962 (well who knows, by some weird chance it could be lol).

Needless to say, I've been quite busy restoring all these lights! I have fuses and a box of starters on order, awaiting their arrival. The sockets for the YORK-LITE fixtures are supposed to arrive today. Then I'm going to buy some very cheap bed sheets to wrap the fixtures in so they don't get scratched in storage in the shed.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 29, 2017, 12:55:43 PM
You say you're looking to sell/trade, would you consider shipping to AK?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 30, 2017, 09:46:22 AM
I would if you're positive you'll commit to buying it after I box it up. I've boxed stuff up for other LG members and then they never get back to me or decide they've changed their mind and it gets under my skin big time since now I've just wasted my time packing it up. I will be posting several pictures of it on LG either today or tomorrow so you can look at the pictures before. It's a nice fixture but I have a couple similar to it already.

I'm sure shipping won't be cheap so I'll give you a fair price on the fixture. I'll have to crunch some numbers and see how much I've put into the light. I paid $60 for all six lights, so I got a pretty good deal. That's just $10/light. And they all work too which is great. I haven't long-term tested any of them yet though. I'm waiting for the fuses to arrive so if anything goes haywire the fuse will blow. I have a handy space-saving method for shipping fluorescent shoplights, which entails attaching the reflector to the fixture upside-down and tucking the sockets into the ballast channel and having the recipent re-attach the sockets and correct the reflector. Helps to create a narrower box which might take a few bucks off the shipping. I insert some sort of insulation between the reflector and channel so the channel doesn't scratch the white side of the reflector.

With this fixture, the white portion of the reflector is all I painted. The gray is all original. there are some rusty spots and light rusty tinge to everything but overall it's in decent shape so it's just character IMO. The white side of the reflector is what matters since that's setting the efficiency of the fixture. This fixture also has a pull chain! This fixture has also been rewired (ballast wires are original though) and I will include starters. There's no mounting chain though. I clipped off all the chains from the lights since they were all nasty and rusty. The chain the lights use is cheap enough and easy to get at Home Depot or Lowes' so I don't bother trying to de-rust or paint the chain. I used to try painting the chain but I end up wasting more paint than what ends up on the chain so it's not worth it.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 14, 2017, 09:25:18 PM
Yeah, I think I had that happen on another Mitchell preheat fixture Veryhighonoutput on LG sold me awhile ago, had to re-install the sockets.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 03, 2017, 12:12:19 AM
I just bought the last two HID fixtures on the shelf at Walmart.

They'd both clearly been there awhile, the boxes were quite dusty and blemished.

Brinks 70w HPS and 100w PSMH.  Surprisingly well made for the cheap junk they are, I paid $84 for both of them combined!!

The PSMH is actually a true 'yardblaster' head, not a compact model.

I tested both briefly, wiring to an extension cord, and they do work.  I'll be mailing them to myself back home and installing them outside, albeit probably not until summer.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on November 03, 2017, 10:53:56 PM
A month or so ago I was in Walmart and saw a couple HPS yardblasters on clearance .. don't remember the exact price, but I know it was less than $12...I was tempted to grab one but didn't.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on November 10, 2017, 06:13:30 PM
I think I'm going back to Sentry for the 70w PSMH and 70w HPS Coooper ones they have as well.  77 bucks but worth it.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on December 02, 2017, 12:25:16 AM
I saw some newly installed glare-bombs(LED streetlights) when going somewhere this evening. No idea what they are, but they are the first warm-white LED's I've seen on any streets around here. Sometime I need to get a daytime pic of one just to see what it is.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 02, 2017, 12:28:28 AM
Interestingly, we've had them for like 8 years now and some have worn just like clear mercury!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on December 02, 2017, 10:36:24 AM
@GEsoftwhite100watts
Are you saying they went the cyan-ish color of MV? :o

All the LEDs I've seen here have been CW...until these that just showed up.
Curious to see what the glare-bombs are when I get a daylight look at them..
whatever they are they are damn bright!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 02, 2017, 02:51:36 PM
They aged much like a clear MV, yes.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on December 02, 2017, 11:03:38 PM
Before 2014 there were no LED street lights here and at that time, they were just confined to brand-new RIDOT installations. Then in 2016 mass changeouts began with RIDOT and a few larger cities in RI. So far there haven't been any catastrophic failures and the lights haven't been around long enough to see how they will age. Most of the issues have been with the wireless nodes everyone but Cranston has used when going LED. Cranston opted for traditional photocells, except they're fail-off instead of standard fail-on, so dayburners are eliminated. Those fail off DTL photocells have not been holding up too well either. The original batch must've been botched or something since replacement units are holding up fine. The fixtures themselves (AEL Autobahns) seem to be holding up well. I've seen two failures in Cranston out of 33 thousand lights so that's not bad at all. Granted there are probably a few more I don't know about but the vast majority of failures are the PCs. The PCs have a blue indicator light on them so when the blue light is on and the fixture is off, the fixture is bad. When the blue light is off and the fixture is off, the PC is bad. The blue LED is really hard to see when the light functions normally though; you can really only see it when the fixture is bad, and it's very faint. Honestly the only reason I noticed it was because mine has the feature. The blue LED is always on as long as the PC has power (and isn't dead).

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 02, 2017, 11:12:48 PM
My university is full of illuminated waffle irons, and they have those node PCs you describe.  At night, from upper floor windows of buildings, you can see indicator LEDs flashing.  LOL.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on December 16, 2017, 09:27:26 PM
LED streetlights first showed up here around 2009 but the mass changeouts didn't begin until 2013-2014. The ones installed in 2009 used regular PCs but the newer ones use integrated nodes or twist lock nodes. The lights with integrated nodes had problems with dayburning when they were first installed. I think they were fail on so if they didn't get a signal they would stay on.

I'm not sure about the how 2009 LEDs are so far but the ones installed in 2015 have some failures, a couple got spot replaced with HPS and there are some that are strobing. The ones installed in 2013-2014 seem to be fine so far. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 16, 2017, 09:53:08 PM
I was impressed to see that all ours are doing so well, almost 10 years for some of them!  Some of the state owned freeways, especially interchanges, are getting LED now too. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on January 19, 2018, 07:30:06 PM
I've been buying lots of short linear fluorescents lately, F20T12, F15T12, F15T8 stuff.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 04, 2018, 12:22:16 AM
Had a fun experience the last couple days.  Well-known streetlight enthusiast Jim Terry was visiting Fairbanks, AK and I met with him and did about 10 hours' worth of passenger-seat driving pointing out some of the more unique lighting scenery around Fairbanks and its suburbs.  Spotted some stuff I'd honestly never noticed before thanks to him, including all the new signal poles going in around here.  We've had LED streetlights since 2008 and they've done surprisingly well for what they are, believe it or not. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: ZarlogH46 on March 12, 2018, 09:56:43 AM
Had a fun experience the last couple days.  Well-known streetlight enthusiast Jim Terry was visiting Fairbanks, AK and I met with him and did about 10 hours' worth of passenger-seat driving pointing out some of the more unique lighting scenery around Fairbanks and its suburbs.  Spotted some stuff I'd honestly never noticed before thanks to him, including all the new signal poles going in around here.  We've had LED streetlights since 2008 and they've done surprisingly well for what they are, believe it or not. 
I wonder if the cold has something to do with their long life.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 12, 2018, 12:53:29 PM
I'm thinking it does...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on March 19, 2018, 04:53:48 PM
The old ones last a long time but they dim out badly. The LEDs up there are probably 2/3 of the brightness they should be.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on March 19, 2018, 10:05:05 PM
They're still usably bright, but yeah.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on May 03, 2018, 10:38:34 PM
Might be of interest to you GEsoftwhite100watts since I know you like radio stuff:

Last weekend I tried a scan through the AM band (with my (electronic-ballasted) lights ON), and got around a dozen stations, all had static and/or a continuous buzz noise in the background (varying amounts from 'just some', to 'a fair bit')

Tonight I did another scan through the AM band (with lights off), and got 15 stations, some came in pretty clear too, and one even perfectly - well enough that even the HD/Digital signal came in.
Even for it being just a talk station you could tell the increase in quality when the 'HD' kicked in.

This was all just using the little AM antenna that came with my tuner...makes me wonder, with a -good- antenna (ideally up in the attic), and did it late at night with everything (including computers) off, how much I'd get
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 03, 2018, 11:31:40 PM
Electronic-ballast lights always make horrid noise on both AM or FM in my experience...Back home, even with FM, I have to only have the magnetic-ballast lights on...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: LampLover84 on May 04, 2018, 11:15:41 AM
Might be of interest to you GEsoftwhite100watts since I know you like radio stuff:

Last weekend I tried a scan through the AM band (with my (electronic-ballasted) lights ON), and got around a dozen stations, all had static and/or a continuous buzz noise in the background (varying amounts from 'just some', to 'a fair bit')

Tonight I did another scan through the AM band (with lights off), and got 15 stations, some came in pretty clear too, and one even perfectly - well enough that even the HD/Digital signal came in.
Even for it being just a talk station you could tell the increase in quality when the 'HD' kicked in.

This was all just using the little AM antenna that came with my tuner...makes me wonder, with a -good- antenna (ideally up in the attic), and did it late at night with everything (including computers) off, how much I'd get

@xmaslightguy  what is the make and model of your tuner?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on May 04, 2018, 05:40:08 PM
@GEsoftwhite100watts:
Yep I've noticed they deff mess up the FM too.
Generally if I'm going to listen to radio its at night after the lights have shut off, so not a big deal..

@LampLover84:
Its a Sangean HDT-1X
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 04, 2018, 10:16:49 PM
Yep...Even some screw in LEDs I had would make noise on (weak/marginal) FM. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on May 05, 2018, 10:07:14 PM
Quote from: GEsoftwhite100watts
Yep...Even some screw in LEDs I had would make noise on (weak/marginal) FM. 
probably the same crap that says 'non-dimmable' on it...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on May 05, 2018, 11:37:41 PM
They may have been- I don't remember.  They were GE. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: lightingfan8902 on May 10, 2018, 01:03:52 PM
Hey guys, I found a NIB (new in box) AEL 115 100w HPS streetlight on ebay. Its price is relatively cheap, its around $53 bucks, plus the shipping is FREE!

 I'm thinking that I might get it, for my first streetlight, and for the backyard. :hps:


https://www.ebay.com/itm/AMERICAN-ELECTRIC-LIGHTING-115-10S-RN-120-R2-DA-Area-Roadway-Fixture-NEW/123084277965?hash=item1ca86508cd:g:ejkAAOSwCkZZVZBb (https://www.ebay.com/itm/AMERICAN-ELECTRIC-LIGHTING-115-10S-RN-120-R2-DA-Area-Roadway-Fixture-NEW/123084277965?hash=item1ca86508cd:g:ejkAAOSwCkZZVZBb)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on May 10, 2018, 03:58:46 PM
Nice! If I didn't have three 113s I'd be tempted lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: lightingfan8902 on May 10, 2018, 06:59:49 PM
I may have to buy a arm mount for the fixture, if I get it.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on May 10, 2018, 07:31:28 PM
@lightingfan8902:
Nice find!
If you decide not to get it, I'm very tempted myself.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: lightingfan8902 on May 10, 2018, 09:57:41 PM
I'm going to think about it.   ;)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: ZarlogH46 on May 11, 2018, 10:54:09 PM
I found a listing for some Hubbell 150w PSMH cobras for $100 plus free shipping.
NOS but I know nothing about these. They have glass refractors, though.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/HUBBELL-ROADWAY-LIGHTING-STREET-LIGHT-PS-150-watt/263647290613?hash=item3d629a64f5:g:36oAAOSwRFdZpz-d
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: lightingfan8902 on May 12, 2018, 11:22:13 AM
I found a listing for some Hubbell 150w PSMH cobras for $100 plus free shipping.
NOS but I know nothing about these. They have glass refractors, though.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/HUBBELL-ROADWAY-LIGHTING-STREET-LIGHT-PS-150-watt/263647290613?hash=item3d629a64f5:g:36oAAOSwRFdZpz-d

Yeah I saw that one too.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: lightingfan8902 on June 15, 2018, 09:19:38 PM
Hey guys! I found a Cooper Lighting Vanguard III (ballast in arm) fixture on ebay! For $62.83 with FREE shipping!

Should I get it???  ;D

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Cooper-Utility-Lighting-VAN-Series-Vanguard-III-Roadway-Fixture/273269335386?hash=item3fa01f255a:g:omUAAOSwpoJbGZOG (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Cooper-Utility-Lighting-VAN-Series-Vanguard-III-Roadway-Fixture/273269335386?hash=item3fa01f255a:g:omUAAOSwpoJbGZOG)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on June 16, 2018, 09:54:03 PM
That's a good price for one IMO. I'd probably have to pay $60 for the shipping alone. There was a couple of 400w MV Cooper Lighting Vanguard III fixtures at my Restore 2 years ago and those sold for $120 each.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: ZarlogH46 on June 17, 2018, 11:42:26 PM
Yea, definitely get that. It was made last December which is pretty cool. I wonder why they are selling it for so cheap now..
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on June 18, 2018, 11:41:04 PM
I'm guessing it was probably extra from a project that wasn't needed anymore or the company that bought it decided to go full steam with LED and was selling any unused HPS fixtures as surplus.

I picked up a NIB 400w HPS OVF at Restore that looked like it was an extra from a project that never got installed.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: lightingfan8902 on June 20, 2018, 07:26:14 AM
I'll think about it. ok.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: ZarlogH46 on June 22, 2018, 11:38:36 PM
Not really related to what's been going on in this thread but has anyone else noticed how LG's off topic section is a lot more active than the rest of the site? Kind of sucks since it's a lighting website, not a social media site.  :P I messaged one of the admins about it, we'll see what the response is.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on June 23, 2018, 08:39:30 PM
 Quote ZarlogH46:
has anyone else noticed how LG's off topic section is a lot more active than the rest of the site?  

I see nothing wrong with the off-topic section on LG being active like that.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on June 24, 2018, 06:39:09 PM
Yeah I don't really see a problem with it either. Could ask to admins to allow members that hate OT posts to hide that category in last posts.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on June 27, 2018, 04:32:07 PM
Shoot, I haven't been on here in a LONG time!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on June 30, 2018, 03:27:22 PM
@ Zarlog: The off-topic pictures are more of an issue than off topic posts. Pictures take up a lot of site space compared to forum posts. Not saying I have any issues with the off topic gallery section (I use it to share some electrical things I do at work that aren't lighting related) but if you were concerned about site space, that would be the first thing I'd get rid of.

BTW, before anyone on LG sees it,  Here's a dirt cheap 250W HPS M-250R2 on ebay  (https://www.ebay.com/itm/GE-Roadway-Lighting-M250R2/113090716907?hash=item1a54bb64eb:g:LWMAAOSwtH9bKSQQ) $20.20 for shipping. I'd totally buy one but I have one NOS exactly like this and a used/restored 250W 120V one so I'm good. Still very tempting though. I kind of want to toss a low-ball offer of like $20 and see if the seller bites. Getting it for $40 shipped would be quite a deal even though I don't need it lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: ZarlogH46 on July 01, 2018, 08:59:05 AM
@ Zarlog: The off-topic pictures are more of an issue than off topic posts. Pictures take up a lot of site space compared to forum posts. Not saying I have any issues with the off topic gallery section (I use it to share some electrical things I do at work that aren't lighting related) but if you were concerned about site space, that would be the first thing I'd get rid of.

BTW, before anyone on LG sees it,  Here's a dirt cheap 250W HPS M-250R2 on ebay  (https://www.ebay.com/itm/GE-Roadway-Lighting-M250R2/113090716907?hash=item1a54bb64eb:g:LWMAAOSwtH9bKSQQ) $20.20 for shipping. I'd totally buy one but I have one NOS exactly like this and a used/restored 250W 120V one so I'm good. Still very tempting though. I kind of want to toss a low-ball offer of like $20 and see if the seller bites. Getting it for $40 shipped would be quite a deal even though I don't need it lol.
I'm going to keep an eye on that, even though shipping for me is $45.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: lightingfan8902 on July 03, 2018, 07:17:12 PM
Guess what guys, I graduated from Penn Foster online school!  ;D
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on July 11, 2018, 11:52:57 PM
Well, I guess I haven't posted here in awhile!  At least we appear to be having more/younger members coming in, at least judging by this thread. 

I've been kinda inactive on here as of late.  LG usually gets more visitors so I generally post most of my stuff on there anyway...

Since the last time I was really active on here often, I have: 

-Moved off to college and back multiple times
-Earned an associate's degree thereof
-Declared a psychology major
-Continued my drivers ed
-Held other jobs
-Had a potential writing career come up
-Had a potential diesel/heavy-truck-mechanic career come up
-And another hobby of mine, army trucks, has all but completely changed my life. 

Title: LG shut down
Post by: ZarlogH46 on August 28, 2018, 01:17:03 PM
Not related to everything else in this thread, but it seems the LG admins have temporarily disabled the site due to members fighting. I don't really know what's going on, but I do think I have an idea of who one of the "offenders" is. (not going to post it publicly here).
Title: Re: LG Shut Down
Post by: lightingfan8902 on August 28, 2018, 02:46:53 PM
Did I get banned, or something? Because I can't get on to LG.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on August 28, 2018, 03:23:44 PM
No, it's a site wide shutdown due to infighting with some members. I have an idea what but I'm not gonna list names on here publicly. As for when LG will be up again, only the admin there know lol.  GoL will remain open in it's kinda buggy state though lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 28, 2018, 04:36:50 PM
I'm totally out of the loop about the site drama (everyone keeps saying there is drama but no one wants to talk about it). I understand you guys keeping quiet because you have suspicions, not concrete knowledge of who's involved but I don't agree with this "inner circle" management LG has always had. The admins love to say there's a problem but fail to inform the general populous on key details. They're always too broad. When someone commits a crime in real life, record of it can be obtained rather freely from the authority having jurisdiction. On LG everything is a secret. :8) I'm also talking about date codes. IMO there should be a form sublet all about date codes with different brands and how to decipher them. Instead they keep everyone in the dark and expect people to figure it out on their own.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: ZarlogH46 on August 28, 2018, 04:53:03 PM
I'm totally out of the loop about the site drama (everyone keeps saying there is drama but no one wants to talk about it). I understand you guys keeping quiet because you have suspicions, not concrete knowledge of who's involved but I don't agree with this "inner circle" management LG has always had. The admins love to say there's a problem but fail to inform the general populous on key details. They're always too broad. When someone commits a crime in real life, record of it can be obtained rather freely from the authority having jurisdiction. On LG everything is a secret. :8) I'm also talking about date codes. IMO there should be a form sublet all about date codes with different brands and how to decipher them. Instead they keep everyone in the dark and expect people to figure it out on their own.
I don't know much about what happened either, all I know is some members are fighting and therefore they decided to shut down the entire site. I think I know who one of them is, if you want to know I can PM you. I just didn't want to post it out on the open here since I don't want to give this site a bad image. I also agree that having every little mishap kept a secret isn't good. Everyone should be informed of all the details whenever something goes wrong rather than locking every thread on it and not replying.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: DimBulb on August 28, 2018, 05:19:07 PM
Wasn't GoL originally started as an escape from bickering on LG?
I remember signing up on GoL for that reason back in the day. Hopefully things will calm down soon, but I think I'll hang here for a while!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 28, 2018, 05:30:19 PM
Yeah prom what I understand GoL was founded because of a major rift between LG admins at the time. During that time the LG leadership was purged and basically the current lineup was created out of it. I think partly to blame was that there were too many admins with different views on how the site should be moderated so they had shrunk it down to I think two admins (plus the webmaster) and rather recently added one (or two?) admins.

It's too bad this site died off a few years ago. I liked this site because it was a smaller community and mostly street light-based rather than fluorescent-based like LG.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: lightingfan8902 on August 28, 2018, 05:34:06 PM
I don't know much about what happened either, all I know is some members are fighting and therefore they decided to shut down the entire site. I think I know who one of them is, if you want to know I can PM you. I just didn't want to post it out on the open here since I don't want to give this site a bad image. I also agree that having every little mishap kept a secret isn't good. Everyone should be informed of all the details whenever something goes wrong rather than locking every thread on it and not replying.

I like to know who did it. PM me about it.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: DimBulb on August 28, 2018, 05:56:57 PM
Yeah prom what I understand GoL was founded because of a major rift between LG admins at the time. During that time the LG leadership was purged and basically the current lineup was created out of it. I think partly to blame was that there were too many admins with different views on how the site should be moderated so they had shrunk it down to I think two admins (plus the webmaster) and rather recently added one (or two?) admins.

It's too bad this site died off a few years ago. I liked this site because it was a smaller community and mostly street light-based rather than fluorescent-based like LG.
Hopefully I'm still welcome here even though my main interest is fluorescent lighting! ;) I am interested in street lights too and still have a few.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on August 28, 2018, 06:10:17 PM
LOL of course you're welcomed here. 8) I love fluorescent lighting too. Seems like a lot of LG members are exclusively fluorescent or incandescent oriented or are into HID lamps and gear but not the street lights themselves. I tend to go through phases where I'm more into fluorescent and where I'm more into street lights. I guess a lot depends on what I can find at the time. Seems like new pieces come in waves.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: lightingfan8902 on August 28, 2018, 07:44:40 PM
Speaking of streetlights, I found a rare Cooper OVW at an underpass, and its 150w HPS! Plus I also found a Black Cooper OVW at an intersection. A super rare one! From the other day.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on August 28, 2018, 08:39:56 PM
I'm a bit surprised that they'd close the whole site for a bit to let things cool off ... but I also didn't see what went down earlier today.

There's a couple guys on there that I can't stand, could even say I truly hate one of them.


--------------
I tend to separate my stuff out between the sites:
GOL has for the most part become where I post streelights & HID (with an occasional fluorescent or Christmas light)..
LG is where I post Fluorescent, Christmas, LED, & Incandescent (and an occasional streetlight)
ATL & TLR i don't visit or post on  as often, what I do post is a mixture of the types that go on LG & GOL..

..I do wish this site was more active, doesn't seem to me many uploads or comments anymore.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: ZarlogH46 on August 28, 2018, 09:38:09 PM
Well, it's back up, at least for now.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on August 28, 2018, 11:24:39 PM
Yeah back when GoL was more active, I used to post mainly streetlighting and HID content on here and stuff like lamps and fluorescent lighting when on LG. Unfortunately GoL kinda died off over the past year with less and less activity. So I started posted more or less the same content to both sites. It also didn't help that at the same time, most of the streetlights in my area got changed out to LED so there isn't anything that unique for me to post.

I'm totally out of the loop about the site drama (everyone keeps saying there is drama but no one wants to talk about it). I understand you guys keeping quiet because you have suspicions, not concrete knowledge of who's involved but I don't agree with this "inner circle" management LG has always had. The admins love to say there's a problem but fail to inform the general populous on key details. They're always too broad. When someone commits a crime in real life, record of it can be obtained rather freely from the authority having jurisdiction. On LG everything is a secret. :8) I'm also talking about date codes. IMO there should be a form sublet all about date codes with different brands and how to decipher them. Instead they keep everyone in the dark and expect people to figure it out on their own.

Yeah, the admins there always like to mention that there's drama but never specifically mentioned anything relating to it, only threats of bans and stuff. Another thing is I find that admins seem to be quite inconsistent, some are more laid back and some are more overzealous about things. Yeah the date code thing annoyed me when I first joined. Fortunately I was able to obtain some of it from PMing members but that's about it.

I don't know much about what happened either, all I know is some members are fighting and therefore they decided to shut down the entire site. I think I know who one of them is, if you want to know I can PM you. I just didn't want to post it out on the open here since I don't want to give this site a bad image. I also agree that having every little mishap kept a secret isn't good. Everyone should be informed of all the details whenever something goes wrong rather than locking every thread on it and not replying.

I have a hunch about happened too, can you PM me about it?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on August 30, 2018, 12:44:08 AM
I did get the announcement email re: LG.  I haven't yet tried the site as I've been busy.  It'd be a real shame if it went away permanently, I know that much!  I don't even want to know how many perfectly good hours I blew off on that site over the course of about 7 years. 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 01, 2018, 07:36:25 PM
LOL yeah not sure about LG, but I've blown  58 days of my life  (http://www.galleryoflights.org/mb/index.php?action=stats) on this site! :o ;D Apparently I'm the most frequented visitor of the site followed by Ian, Joe, and Jace. We don't see much of Ian or Jace so they must just spend their time on here checking the site out rather than being active.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: joe_347V on September 01, 2018, 07:39:18 PM
Interesting stats lol. Although for me it might have been me leaving a GoL tab open on my browser while browsing something else on the internet lol. It was only recently I set my account to autologout after 60 mins. Mainly since the log off feature dosen't work for me and I have to delete cookies to log out.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on September 01, 2018, 07:52:40 PM
Ah yeah I just stay logged in 24/7 basically anything I've signed up for lol. When I clean up my browser it logs me out of everything but the usernames and passwords are already filled in when I open the pages so all I do is click the "keep my signed in" box and click "sign in" and I'm back to normal. The "online" time thing must only work while the user has the site opened in a browser or else I'd have like 10+ years for a time lol.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 01, 2018, 10:03:45 PM
58 days?  Someone and I were just discussing how many hours of our lives we've blown off on another hobby...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: ZarlogH46 on September 01, 2018, 11:29:28 PM
LOL yeah not sure about LG, but I've blown  58 days of my life  (http://www.galleryoflights.org/mb/index.php?action=stats) on this site! :o ;D Apparently I'm the most frequented visitor of the site followed by Ian, Joe, and Jace. We don't see much of Ian or Jace so they must just spend their time on here checking the site out rather than being active.
Daaaaaamn that's impressive. I'm curious to know how long I have spent on LG, then again I am known for leaving tabs open for hours without doing anything with them. :P
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 01, 2018, 11:30:48 PM
That may have increased the hours...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on September 20, 2018, 08:35:21 PM
Quote from: Mike link
all I do is click the "keep my signed in" box
It would be nice if that box still worked on this site...
(used to, but no longer does. probably related to whatever the webhost did earlier this year that messed up things on the site)
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: xmaslightguy on September 20, 2018, 08:37:55 PM
Anyone know what went down on LG today with the "Things Which Annoy You" forum topic??
There's a message that simply says: "This topic has been moved temporarily until we can figure out what to do. It may or may not be back"
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 22, 2018, 02:52:55 PM
I believe there has been some falling-out among the member base.  Kinda sucks but I don't follow it; I'm not on there as much as I used to be anyway.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on September 24, 2018, 12:46:13 AM
Looks like I'm scoring a bunch of 1950s/1960s "Louver" fixtures and F40SP35WM.  They're beat up, have been rained/snowed on outside in Interior Alaska for 10+ years, but I think I can make one good one (at least a 4' section, most are 8' but one is 4') out of all the parts and much bending and spraypainting with appliance epoxy. 

The one ballast I saw was an old, old GE.  Surprised they didn't all cook with 34w lamps, as some still had the lamps installed, though we found a bunch of the same lamps elsewhere on the property full of (mostly) trash.  Most are post '95, pre-03, but at least one that isn 't broken is a pre '92 model, and another appears to be a Sylvania SuperSaver Designer 3500k. 

Despite being crappy 34w, they're SP35, an anomaly...
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 03, 2018, 08:29:24 PM
Still works for me. Only time I ever have to re-log into this site is when I clear my cache, but the password and username are already filled in. All I need to do is check the keep my signed in box and hit log in and I'm in for good.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: lightingfan8902 on October 03, 2018, 10:45:29 PM
I just changed my signature. You like?

Its a Cooper OVW being tested on the bench.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 04, 2018, 12:13:42 AM
Louver lights are now in my posession!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: lightingfan8902 on October 04, 2018, 11:56:44 AM
Anyone liked my new signature?
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 04, 2018, 06:49:05 PM
I like your signature! Very creative! 8)

@ Andy: awesome! I hope the restoration process goes well for you!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 04, 2018, 07:30:20 PM
We shall see! They at least got their leaves and broken fluorescent tube glass knocked out of them and popped stubborn louvers loose when two of them hit the highway.  (There is an amusing story there). 

Since you used to like Google Streetview links, here's where that happened: https://www.google.com/maps/@64.5311774,-149.0738928,3a,75y,157.16h,78.55t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sUA8g_cSf7HkT52EwsG0cJg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

(Well, somewhere out in this area...I can't remember exactly where). 
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: Mike on October 06, 2018, 11:58:46 AM
Wow very isolated area!
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 07, 2018, 01:01:50 AM
Spent today doing demoliton projects on a house remodel.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: lightingfan8902 on December 12, 2018, 10:10:47 PM
Does anyone here like railroad crossing lighting signals? I do. I know some of it.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on December 13, 2018, 06:56:09 PM
Finally moving off the university campus.
Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on February 23, 2019, 09:17:40 PM
Well, long time no see, I've been kinda absent from GoL as of late!

Life has gotten in the way, given the upper division college credits and two developing careers.  I'm a psychology major with double minors in Spanish and Applied Business, who works on old army trucks.  When not doing homework, I'm on the military-vehicle Facebook groups dealing with those people.  I've had everything from places to live to job offers come out of what I do.

Title: Re: THe Off Topic, Topic!!!!
Post by: GEsoftwhite100watts on October 29, 2019, 11:29:11 PM
Long time no see again!  Life has gotten in the way and my lighting hobby has slacked back a little.  It's been replaced by other things.  The joys of adulting...

Since my last post, I have:  Moved back home, almost done with a college degree.  Oddly, as mentioned above, my true field seems to be working on old army trucks.  It just took me all over the United States, what a trip!  Got to see umpteen new states and lots of interesting lighting scenery to say the least!