Gallery of Lights
Lanterns/Fixtures => Modern => Topic started by: Form109 on November 26, 2009, 07:57:55 PM
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today while driving through several small towns Previously Dominant with Mercury Vapor Fixtures...something was missing.
in Lindale Texas several of the Remote Ballasted OV-25's which were 400 Watt Mercury Vapor had been replaced with General Electric M250R2's which were High Pressure Sodium 200 or 250 Watts.
isnt this Sad? :'(
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It is, but HPS are really a cheapest light today.
One most important (and pity) reason, as their cycling at their EOL deliberately ensure the fixture regular maintenance... It was sad true, then responsible people neglect it with MV's (but glory to exceptions)...
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It is, but HPS are really a cheapest light today.
One most important (and pity) reason, as their cycling at their EOL deliberately ensure the fixture regular maintenance... It was sad true, then responsible people neglect it with MV's (but glory to exceptions)...
Cheapest?...i hardly think so,while High Pressure Sodium is More Efficent,the Fixtures,Lamps and gear cost more than an similar mercury vapor installation,mercury vapor lamps dont Cycle,or Leak...id rather have a dimmed out merc than a HPS that was Cycling,The Falliure rate of HPS is Higher than MV,not to mention theres less usable visibility from the Ugly Orange Light it emits!
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Cyclers don't always help maintenance actually, in my area, both MV and HPS are well serviced......but the electrical company south of mine has a road with 35 streetlights that was installed about 10 years ago, and only 5 of them works! about other 5 is cycling and the other 25 WAS cycling but now is all leaked out or dead fixtures!!! and in the same road there are 12 HPS coming from my electrical company which all works! in matter of fact it is the same road as this one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taCCQ2Yb8yk) the exact spot where the 2 electrical companies meets is exactly at 0:45......You can actually see the difference!!!
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Cheapest?...i hardly think so,while High Pressure Sodium is More Efficent
This is the main reason for the "cost of light" difference
the Fixtures,Lamps and gear cost more than an similar mercury vapor installation
The real difference is only the ignitor, other differences are only marketing. So when MV's would enjoy the same popularity (between the lighting officials) as HPS, the gear would cost the same.
mercury vapor lamps dont Cycle,or Leak...id rather have a dimmed out merc than a HPS that was Cycling,The Falliure rate of HPS is Higher than MV,not to mention theres less usable visibility from the Ugly Orange Light it emits!
Well, if the HPS would be serviced as HID's should (so maximum 4 years group relamping for newer HPS, otherwise 3 years for both HPS and MV and 2 years for MH), you would nearly not see any cycler, nor dimmed out merc. By the way merc with output below 70% of rated level (so barely not yet noticable brightness loss) belong to "not working", exactly the same as HPS cycler.
And the ugliness of the orange light is matter of quality and not cost of the light, then it is other story.
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HPS does have the capability of looking nice in the right places, it's just not suited for streetlights! if they made the color a little less orange, and a little more white, it would resemble incandescent light!
I don't hate or dislike HPS, I like HPS just as much as other lamp types!
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more importantly...white lights should be used in local areas while HPS can be more suitable for highways or such...
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more importantly...white lights should be used in local areas while HPS can be more suitable for highways or such...
I don't think it is safe to use lamps with too poor (below ~50) color rendering on highways, mainly in states using Vienna convention traffic signs (nearly all the world except North America), as their color coding help to quickly identify the category, so you don't have to focus on all of them to recognize, if it is important to you at the time or not (e.g. if you know you have to drive the highway 200km, you don't need signs marking directions to some place on 20'th km).
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Well, mercury vapor lamps are considered obsolete by all the utilities so there will be more upgrades in the coming years. Even HPS is now obsolete in the city of Los Angeles as they are changing tens of thousands of HPS lights to LED.
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more importantly...white lights should be used in local areas while HPS can be more suitable for highways or such...
I don't think it is safe to use lamps with too poor (below ~50) color rendering on highways, mainly in states using Vienna convention traffic signs (nearly all the world except North America), as their color coding help to quickly identify the category, so you don't have to focus on all of them to recognize, if it is important to you at the time or not (e.g. if you know you have to drive the highway 200km, you don't need signs marking directions to some place on 20'th km).
Well in MD...ALL highways and freeways except for most of I-95 are HPS....the I-95...the South of Baltimore City and North part of the City all of the highmasts are MH, except a few newer highmasts are HPS though....
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Why can't they just replace the ballast and keep the fixture?
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@mdschmier: Optical assembly has to match the light source (reflector designed for coated MV does not work correctly with clear HPS, etc), so together with the ballast the optical assembly would have to be replaced, what make this renovation of old, time spent lantern labor and even material expensive, so buying and installing new one become way cheaper.
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In Frederick MD, they did keep the fixtures the clamshells and installed HPS retrofit lamps OR replaced the remote ballast with remote HPS and lamp setup...
I really truly believe if HPS is used in FCOs, they should be coated! I am always seeing FCO with clear HPS and some really looks bad lighting the road with 3 spots of lights.....what kind of distribution is that?! I mean new fixtures seems worse than the old ones which did a much better job...so how is this an upgrade?
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There are a lot of places where they they retrofit the existing fixture instead of replacing it
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There are a lot of places where they they retrofit the existing fixture instead of replacing it
Yeah like Frederick, Maryland....
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@GullWhiz: I said "Lamp and optics has to match" and not "Take the cheapest lamp with cheapest optic"...
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There are a lot of places where they they retrofit the existing fixture instead of replacing it
I've seen older Westinghouse Remote Ballast lights retrofiited to HPS and MH in Pittsburgh along time ago but many of them were replaced in 2005 during an upgrade.
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@GullWhiz: I said "Lamp and optics has to match" and not "Take the cheapest lamp with cheapest optic"...
Frederick MD actually uses pricey HPS lamps LOL....they are HPS retrofits for MV ballasts AND if the ballasts were replaced with HPS but same fixture, they use Standby HPS lamps...(with two arctubes) and rest is same thing in all wattages.....I noticed their lamps were Sylvania's!
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I noticed in Shaler and Hampton Twp. that many of their mercury vapor streetlights have been disappearing year after year, it sure doesn't look too pretty at night there anymore. :(
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Well, mercury vapor lamps are considered obsolete by all the utilities so there will be more upgrades in the coming years. Even HPS is now obsolete in the city of Los Angeles as they are changing tens of thousands of HPS lights to LED.
Many municipalities also requested the upgrades by the utility companies.
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doesn't look like there's much that can be done for MV...its Pretty much toast..sorry to say.
:'(
I Just Hope they Improve LED,Induction and Ceramic Metal Halide. :(
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And also none of the big major lighting companies are interested in mercury vapor lighting at all at this point so MV might succomb in the near future.
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Its a matter of profits, I heard manufacturers make very little profit from mercury vapor lamps despite that such lamps make about 20% of HID lamp sales in the USA.
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Mercury Vapor makes 20 Precent of Sales Now....it was probably much Higher in Mercuries Heydey of popularity im sure.
im Pretty Sure HPS is the HID Lamp with the Highest Share as far as HID Sales go.
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I'm sure HPS lamps sales have gone up since the MV fixture ban in 2008 too.
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maybe mostly for commercial...But residents...I think they mostly chose the 65 watt CFL or even MH....
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In 1980 86% of street lights were mercury vapor!
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86 Precent?...that's pretty intreasting stats...thanks for that dave
nowadays its probably 20 Precent.
and Jace....i think 65 Watt Fluorescent is what they will choose....and metal halide
in my area lately ive noticed quite a few 175 Watt MV Blasters replaced with 65 Watt Fluorescent also seen some MH ones....people like the white light,HPS ones dont sell nearly as high around here.
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90% of power companies install high pressure sodium streetlights since most other light sources haven't been proven to be a suitable replacement for them, including induction and LED's.
As for mercury vapor streetlights, they're declining each year they fail and aren't nearly as popular as they once were and many of them have obliterated over the years during upgrades to HPS.
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90% of power companies install high pressure sodium streetlights since most other light sources haven't been proven to be a suitable replacement for them, including induction and LED's.
As for mercury vapor streetlights, they're declining each year they fail and aren't nearly as popular as they once were and many of them have obliterated over the years during upgrades to HPS.
I have noticed and my lineman friend has confirmed that use of pulse start MH in 100 watt and 150 is INCREASING in MD for residential posttops... mostly in Baltimore area and the counties around it...