Home     FORUM     Register     Login
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
November 28, 2014, 01:43:18 AM

Album list     Last uploads     Last comments     Most viewed     Top rated     My Favourites     Search
Home > Public Albums > User galleries > Form109 > Lighting Components
Click to view full size image
Old Advance Class P Ballast (The Ballast Inside the Old Wrap)
Heres the Ballast inside the Oldish Looking Wraparound (Sans Diffuser)...i bet this still works but i havent Tested Yet.

it is a Class P (Protected) Advance Ballast....the Label gives me a Strong 60's Vibe....what do you guys Think?
Metal Halide 011.JPG Metal Halide 001.JPG Flea Market and Stuff 010.JPG Pair o Sockets 001.JPG Fluorosocket 002.JPG
File information
Filename:Flea Market and Stuff 010.JPG
Album name:Form109 / Lighting Components
Keywords:Gear
Company and Date Manufactured:Advance
Model:RM-2540-TP
Wattage:2x40
Lamp Type:Fluorescent
File Size:87 KB
Date added:16 Mar 2010
Dimensions:999 x 749 pixels
Displayed:332 times
Contrast:0
Date Time:2010:03:15 20:29:31
DateTime Original:2010:03:15 20:07:04
Exposure Bias:0 EV
Exposure Mode:0
Exposure Program:Program
Exposure Time:1/40 sec
FNumber:f 2.8
Flash:Red Eye, Compulsory Flash, Return light detected
Focal length:7.9 mm
ISO:100
Light Source:Unknown or Auto
Make:SONY
Max Aperture:f 2.8
URL:http://www.galleryoflights.org/mb/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-1430
Favourites:Add to Favourites
Silverliner14B
Administrator
Newbie
*****
Offline
Posts: 72

Good ol' 100w bulbs!

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Silverliner14B  [16 Mar 2010 at 06:21]

The "Class P" designation only applies to ballasts made from '69 onwards. There should be a date code stamp on the bottom of the ballast.

Form109
Lighting enthusiast
**
Offline
Posts: 130

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Form109  [28 Jun 2010 at 08:48]

Hey Dave there is a "10" and a "73" Stamped On the bottom of the Ballast....and i'll Add there is a Suspicious Looking Tar Stain on the Wires Entering one Side of the Ballast....as Well as a Tar Stain on top of the Ballast.

rjluna2
Lighting expert
****
Offline
Posts: 868


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
rjluna2  [28 Jun 2010 at 12:53]

That is October, 1973. Man, be careful with the tar. It might contains PCB...

Form109
Lighting enthusiast
**
Offline
Posts: 130

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Form109  [28 Jun 2010 at 17:31]

in a Pre 79" Ballast does the Actual Potting Tar Contain PCB's?.....i thought it was only the Cap!

Vince
Administrator
Lighting enthusiast
*****
Offline
Posts: 229


View Profile WWW Personal Message (Offline)
TiCoune66  [28 Jun 2010 at 18:56]

You ARE right Devonte, only the capacitor contains PCBs, at least in toxic enough amounts. I've heard tar may contain a small amount of PCBs, but nothing really dangerous. The cap is the nastiest part.

Silverliner14B
Administrator
Newbie
*****
Offline
Posts: 72

Good ol' 100w bulbs!

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Silverliner14B  [28 Jun 2010 at 21:31]

Tar can contain PCBs if the capacitor leaked. Tar mixed with PCBs will be wet and sticky.

Form109
Lighting enthusiast
**
Offline
Posts: 130

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Form109  [28 Jun 2010 at 22:43]

Does Tar become hot enough to melt when the Ballast has a Fault that cases overheating?

Silverliner14B
Administrator
Newbie
*****
Offline
Posts: 72

Good ol' 100w bulbs!

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Silverliner14B  [28 Jun 2010 at 22:45]

Yes it does. I've seen piles of tar on the bottom of the ballast covers in fixtures.

Form109
Lighting enthusiast
**
Offline
Posts: 130

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Form109  [28 Jun 2010 at 22:49]

Why is Tar so Popular for Potting Fluorescent Ballasts?....why not use Epoxy Resin?.....also..why do our fluorescent Ballasts use Hardwired connections verses the Terminal Blocks of European Ballasts?.....and finally....is Thermal Protection useful at all cause sometimes it doesnt seen to Function very well.

Vince
Administrator
Lighting enthusiast
*****
Offline
Posts: 229


View Profile WWW Personal Message (Offline)
TiCoune66  [29 Jun 2010 at 00:29]

- I guess tar used to seal batteries was also good to pot ballasts, makes the whole thing cheaper, both for batteries and ballasts.

- I think it is important to wire ballasts correctly. Europe mostly uses chokes, so you can wire any of both wire to hot. That doesn't apply to North America which uses autotransformers that must be wired in a certain way. Our chokes have spade connectors many times.

- Thermal protection is definitely not a reliable protection. It works 99% of the time, but sometimes the ballasts may run just below the tripping temperature, which is still as nasty.

DimBulb
Newbie
*
Offline
Posts: 0


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
DimBulb  [29 Jun 2010 at 00:42]

My friend had an F40 Rapid start fixture in his garage with a thermal switch. I was there one night when that fixture started turning off & on due to overheating. We shut it off and pulled the cover but tar had already leaked all over the inside of the fixture. Maybe those thermal switches should trip at a lower temp?

joe_347V
Administrator
Lighting expert
*****
Offline
Posts: 977

Dat LPS...

View Profile WWW Personal Message (Offline)
joe_347V  [29 Jun 2010 at 04:05]

I have a couple of fixtures where the ballast failed and spilled tar all over the ballast cover too.

As for protection I usually wire a inline fuse inline fuse rated close to what the ballast draws in series with the ballast on some of my older ballasts and on some ballasts that I frequently use even if they have a thermal switch.

I read that the tar potting is used to help dissipate heat better and to suppress ballast noise. I wonder if epoxy can be used as a potting compound like on some of those canned HPS ignitors.

Form109
Lighting enthusiast
**
Offline
Posts: 130

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
Form109  [02 Jul 2010 at 06:31]

This is a High Power Factor Ballast...do those Run Warmer than Low Power Factor Ones?.....afterall they do run the lamps at higher Current....also the Tar leak from the Ballast Smells Funny....

Mike
Professional lighting engineer
*****
Offline
Posts: 1110

This Image Brought to You by: McCann Lighting Co.

View Profile WWW Personal Message (Offline)
streetlight98  [01 Dec 2012 at 16:52]

as long as the tar in hardened and not stickey it shouldn't contain a dangerous amount of PCBs. I wouldn't touch it without gloves on to see if it's stickey though. If it is stickey throw the fixture out as well as the gloves you used to touch to tar.

GEsoftwhite100watts
Lighting enthusiast
**
Offline
Posts: 195

Old florescents forever!

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
GEsoftwhite100watts  [01 Dec 2012 at 18:48]

Will this run 34w lamps without overheating? Both my .8A ballasts (a GE BonusLine and a 1979 Advance Kool-Koil) are rated for them...
My GE BonusLine ballast in my rescued shoplight has lost some of it's tar (but contained in the ballast compartment) but it's solid and it's still pretty quiet, even on modified-sine-wave inverter electricity.
It was running 34w lamps when I got it but I didn't even try them on that ballast as I didn't want to risk it... running 34w lamps for the past fifteen years (oh did I mention I found out it was purchased like 15 years ago at a True Value store which explains the post-1995, pre-2003 GE Watt-Misers but the light itself likely sat on the shelf for a long time NOS). Seems okay running a pair of MainLighters and upside down uplighting the ceiling until I mount it...but is there a hazard that ballast will fail violently/should I remove it and replace it with something else to preserve it)?

A_lights
Lighting enthusiast
**
Offline
Posts: 142

lighting is everything

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
A_lights  [01 Dec 2012 at 18:52]

Wouldn't use 34W lamps, note the label will usually say not certified for use with 34W
Probably not bad, if it really concerned you install an in-line fuse and make sure its suspended off anything if the ballast decided to go smokey/fireworks

Mike
Professional lighting engineer
*****
Offline
Posts: 1110

This Image Brought to You by: McCann Lighting Co.

View Profile WWW Personal Message (Offline)
streetlight98  [01 Dec 2012 at 18:58]

Just don't use 34W lamps period. that's always worked for me.

GEsoftwhite100watts
Lighting enthusiast
**
Offline
Posts: 195

Old florescents forever!

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
GEsoftwhite100watts  [01 Dec 2012 at 21:13]

Yeah, that works for me too! My rule of thumb is, when in doubt don't use 34w lamps. I have some and I'd use them in fixtures at room temperature and use them up, but only on a ballast that is certain to work with them...

Mike
Professional lighting engineer
*****
Offline
Posts: 1110

This Image Brought to You by: McCann Lighting Co.

View Profile WWW Personal Message (Offline)
streetlight98  [01 Dec 2012 at 21:29]

even then i don't use them. I've never installed a 34W lamp. The only case i'd use them is if nothing else is available of if the ballast is electronic RS. And that's if it's not mine. If it's my fixture it's 40W lamps and that's final.

GEsoftwhite100watts
Lighting enthusiast
**
Offline
Posts: 195

Old florescents forever!

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
GEsoftwhite100watts  [01 Dec 2012 at 22:06]

I just wouldn't buy them but the ones I have were free so I'll just use them up on suitable ballasts...

traffic light1
Newbie
*
Offline
Posts: 0


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
traffic light1  [01 Dec 2012 at 22:11]

PCBs

Mike
Professional lighting engineer
*****
Offline
Posts: 1110

This Image Brought to You by: McCann Lighting Co.

View Profile WWW Personal Message (Offline)
streetlight98  [01 Dec 2012 at 22:54]

Yep! all ballasts made before sometime in the 70s have PCB-containing capacitors. My rule of thumb is if it has leaked tar, it should be for display use only (not fit for use) since if tar has leaked, the heat in the ballast doesn't distribute as well which means there's a greater chance the capacitor will run hotter and leak the PCBs. Plus if it continues leaking tar it's a lot of work to clean it all up so in the end it's not worth it.

Personally, I'd junk any leaked ballast regardless of if it works or not unless it's vintage, then it'd probably get nailed onto the wall with the leads cut short for display uses.

A_lights
Lighting enthusiast
**
Offline
Posts: 142

lighting is everything

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
A_lights  [01 Dec 2012 at 23:32]

I use any ballast that works pretty much...unless there is reduced light output Or flickering. .i havent had one leak but Had many that leaked tar a bit and they continue to.work for many years it seems...just because it overheated once or twice in its lifetime does not mean its a dud, hot weather and failing lamps could cause it to overheat

GEsoftwhite100watts
Lighting enthusiast
**
Offline
Posts: 195

Old florescents forever!

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
GEsoftwhite100watts  [01 Dec 2012 at 23:36]

And 34w lamps...
The tar that leaked out of mine and dripped onto the inside of the reflector looks a little bit shiny...does this mean it could be PCB-infested? It's only a small amount and it's inside the fixture so I don't think it's a huge hazard...although it may work for many more years...but when/if I get another similar ballast it will be removed and preserved/saved for a backup...

rjluna2
Lighting expert
****
Offline
Posts: 868


View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
rjluna2  [01 Dec 2012 at 23:37]

@traffic light1: The PCB is for Polychlorinated biphenyl

GEsoftwhite100watts
Lighting enthusiast
**
Offline
Posts: 195

Old florescents forever!

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
GEsoftwhite100watts  [01 Dec 2012 at 23:38]

Mine is obviously vintage and if I find something else I will remove it and keep it for a display item and an emergency backup...I think they quit using PCBs in 1980 or sometime around there...usually if the label doesn't say "NO PCBs" there is a good chance it has it. I just read up some on PCBs and they are pretty nasty to the environment but I think as long as it's a ballast inside a florescent light it shouldn't be a huge hazard...although from now on when handling a PCB-containing ballast I think I will wear gloves.

joe_347V
Administrator
Lighting expert
*****
Offline
Posts: 977

Dat LPS...

View Profile WWW Personal Message (Offline)
joe_347V  [02 Dec 2012 at 00:17]

I have around 5 ballasts that contain PCBs of those 5 only two are still in regular use and have inline fuses protecting them.

The other three (2 used, 1 NOS) are in storage but if I do started using them I'll install fuses on them too. PCBs were banned in the late 70s so any HPF ballast made before 1979 has a high chance of containing PCBs. They should be fine to use if you don't let the cap leak IE no 34w lamps at all.

HID ballasts also had PCBs but with those all you need to do is to replace the cap with a non PCB one which I recommend doing anyways since old caps can short and take the ballast down with it.

GEsoftwhite100watts
Lighting enthusiast
**
Offline
Posts: 195

Old florescents forever!

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
GEsoftwhite100watts  [02 Dec 2012 at 00:26]

When caps die to they always take the ballast with them?
What size fuse do you use on your PCB-containing ballasts?

Mike
Professional lighting engineer
*****
Offline
Posts: 1110

This Image Brought to You by: McCann Lighting Co.

View Profile WWW Personal Message (Offline)
streetlight98  [02 Dec 2012 at 00:48]

@ Joe can you get a pic or two of the fuses you use? I want to fuse the shoplite and preheat industrial shoplite. Both fixtures use PCB-containing ballasts and aren't protected. of course i have a mega beef with 34W lamps though so they should be safe. Vince said he's had univeral brand ballasts identical to the one in my shoplite go up in fireworks so I do have a bad feeling in my gut. That's always the issue with getting used electrical appliances: you just never know what could happen or wether or not it was used properly in its previous location.

joe_347V
Administrator
Lighting expert
*****
Offline
Posts: 977

Dat LPS...

View Profile WWW Personal Message (Offline)
joe_347V  [02 Dec 2012 at 01:09]

@Andy, it depends on the ballast design, generally ballasts that have the cap in series with the lamp (CWA, CWI, or the lead lamp on a tulamp circuit) have this problem. Ballasts with the cap in parallel with it (HX, R) generally will not have this problem.

@Mike, I have a pic of a fuseholder I use in my gallery.

GEsoftwhite100watts
Lighting enthusiast
**
Offline
Posts: 195

Old florescents forever!

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)
GEsoftwhite100watts  [02 Dec 2012 at 01:17]

Mike, I have to agree...you don't always know it's previous history...
The label on the ballast above looks very similar (although not identical) to this...

Mike
Professional lighting engineer
*****
Offline
Posts: 1110

This Image Brought to You by: McCann Lighting Co.

View Profile WWW Personal Message (Offline)
streetlight98  [02 Dec 2012 at 01:34]

Better to be safe than sorry...

BTW, this light and its three twins have cloth wiring inside them. I checked the spare one in the basement and it had a white cloth wire and a black cloth wire. They looked to be either 12 or 10 guage too. There was no ground wire coming out of it so I assume these light weren't originally grounded, though it doesn't make sense since RS need to be grounded. Maybe the nuetral was originally used as a ground?



Want to help Gallery of Lights? Donate!